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View Full Version : Is Phil Jackson playing mind games with Lakers FO?



Lakeshow86
06-25-2010, 12:13 PM
I dont have a link because it was on TV but according to ESPN Rich Bucher or whatever his name is, Phil has been given a clean bill of health and if he retires it wont be health related. He thinks that Phil saying he's leaning towards retiring is his way of telling Lakers show me the money. The Lakers have not come up with offers for him. He's telling them dont think i wont retire because i will if you dont start showing you want me. I think Phil is willing to take a paycut. He's seen his own players take a paycut(Ron Artest)for the good of the team. How much paycut though is the question? because i heard that the rumor is that Lakers are trying to cut Phil's salary in half. A figure that Phil probably will find insulting. So i think if Phil does retire it wont be because he doesnt want to coach the Lakers. He does but the Lakers might not want him bad enough

Avenged
06-25-2010, 12:38 PM
Phil Jackson said these exact words:


Jackson, 64, received better than expected results in recent medical tests, including a sore left knee that wasn't bad enough to require being replaced. And he said his decision was not financially based, even though the Lakers probably would request a minor cut from the $12 million he made last season.

"It's certainly not about money," he said.

http://articles.latimes.com/2010/jun/23/sports/la-sp-lakers-20100624

Lakeshow86
06-25-2010, 12:42 PM
Phil Jackson said these exact words:



http://articles.latimes.com/2010/jun/23/sports/la-sp-lakers-20100624

Oh, you know it is. Phil is not going to take a huge paycut. He will proably take a paycut but not a huge one. Lakers front office are probably going too low on his salary demands. They are probably in heated negotiations though on the situation

Avenged
06-25-2010, 12:46 PM
Oh, you know it is. Phil is not going to take a huge paycut. He will proably take a paycut but not a huge one. Lakers front office are probably going too low on his salary demands. They are probably in heated negotiations though on the situation

If Phil comes back, it's no secret he has to take a paycut. F.O has publicly announced that Phil is going to have to take a minor cut from the $12 million he made last season.

I don't know if it's "in half" like you say, but from what I hear it's a "minor" paycut.

LA_Raiders
06-25-2010, 01:45 PM
The guys has lots of $$$ already, i really think is not about the money anymore...But the man has 11 rings? what else is left to do??? 4 3peats??? that would be awesome...

I hope he comes back...

New Power House
06-25-2010, 02:17 PM
The guys has lots of $$$ already, i really think is not about the money anymore...But the man has 11 rings? what else is left to do??? 4 3peats??? that would be awesome...

I hope he comes back...

Phil might be dreaming to coach Lebron and whatever team he ends up. Lebron can make any team to pay him more and the warranty of a team with at least three all stars. Then go to become the only coach to win the crown in series of three with three different teams! This is a possibility. Phil will have to show some love for his girl and a team that gave him the big bucks for first time payed to a coach in the NBA. Big decision for the Zen Master.Are you loyal to a team or to your own legacy? "To be or not to be" Mr Jackson!

MJL
06-25-2010, 02:46 PM
I said it before and I will say it again...PJ is doing so called pre-negotiation positioning. Oh, one more thing...The more PJ said is not the money, the more you can be sure it is about money!
Will the Lakers says "We only want you to make a very small pay cut". Then as well just pay PJ without paycut. So, Lakers saying "big paycut" is also pre-negotiation postioning.
Will PJ says "it's all about the money" or "If you don't pay me enough, I will retire!" Do you really think this is how it goes? Believe me, it's all about pre-negotiation positioning!
I am leaning toward retairing...Which means if you show me the right amount of money...Then I just might change my mind! Big pay cut means meet me in the middle ground paycut!
Don't worry, PJ is coming back. Unless Jerry Buss made up his mind that he is going different direction, then PJ will retire! But I don't think so!

Anilyzer
06-25-2010, 04:34 PM
I still like my idea (although my thread was instantly deleted for some reason) of Jerry Buss selling the team to Google or Microsoft for $1B.

At this point, one of those corporations would get FAR more value out of the greatest sports franchise in the world (the Lakers) than Jerry Buss can. They could use it for their global branding, and as a means of expanding their presence in Los Angeles, plus tons of TV time, and everything is either "Google Google Google", or "Bing Bing Bing".

The Los Angeles Lakers sponsored by Google... how does that sound?

And if the Lakers make "only" $10M in pure profit, those corporations would be perfectly fine. In fact even if the team loses $35M a year, they probably wouldn't mind the tax right-off, and the value of the team is always steadily increasing.

Consider that Jerry Buss paid $67M for the Lakers, Kings and Forum in a package deal in 1979. And that today, especially after another title repeat with Kobe and Phil, the Lakers are one of the most valuable sports franchises on the planet (along with Cowboys, Manchester United, Real Madrid, maybe New York Knicks or New York Jets). The media age is rapidly expanding, NBA basketball is becoming a global commodity, and the Lakers are the gold standard of the NBA.

$1B for the Lakers is a win-win for Buss -- AND for Los Angeles. Whether the Phil Jackson "mind games" are over a proposed paycut or disagreement about a few million bucks, or because of a power play by Jim Buss against Jeannie Buss (who dates Phil Jackson), or WHATEVER, clearly if we have reached that impasse then it is best for the team, the city of Los Angeles and even the league to sell to a greater corporate interest with deep pockets that could just allow Mitch Kupchak, Phil Jackson and the rest of the coaches and front office to "do their thing" unimpeded by financial distractions or ego/personality clashes at the ownership level.

Anilyzer
06-25-2010, 04:42 PM
And somebody did respond to me about this idea before and said something like "oh, just like that? Phil doesn't want a paycut so just sell the team just like that?"

Uh, yeah, just like that. If you have the greatest coach possibly in sports history... a living legend who just delivered back to back championships to Los Angeles AGAIN... a walking legend who is a true Jedi master and has transformed Kobe Bryant from a wild kid into possibly the greatest of all time... and you are contemplating letting him go and replacing him with BRIAN SHAW or BYRON SCOTT, either because he doesn't want to take a 50% paycut or because his girlfriend Jeannie Buss is being pushed out of basketball operations (essentially because she is female) and there are politics involved...

Then YES sell the team and let the machine keep rolling forward. Don't soil the legacy by letting the team implode now. Trust me if Phil Jackson leaves, then there is NO championship next year, and we begin the slow decline with a couple mediocre seasons where we get knocked out in the second round or the WCF.

Anilyzer
06-25-2010, 09:46 PM
I mean Jerry Buss is a great owner and beloved by the city of LA. But we need also to think about the future of the franchise -- 5, 10, 15 years from now.

I just bring up the idea of selling the team NOW, and especially to an ideal corporate buyer like Google, because the team's value is sky-high right now, at the same moment that the team is also feeling some slight nudges of financial strain (although they definitely turn a solid multimillion dollar pure profit, even after everyone involved has made their salaries). On top of that, Google is a company that values freedom and free enterprise, and would be highly highly welcome in Los Angeles.

I mean everyone talking about whether Phil is ready to retire... what about Jerry Buss? He had said he was basically stepping back some years ago, but has had to step forward and run the show at critical junctures this decade. Now would seem like the PERFECT moment to sell to a dream company like Google, who will promote the Lakers sky-high and have super deep pockets. Buss could retain a minority interest in the team, and help to consult and guide the front office. Kupchak has proven himself to be the best GM in the league, and oh yeah we've also got the best coach in NBA history.

Or we could 1. fire Phil 2. give Brian Shaw a try at head coach 3. watch Jeannie Buss quit in frustration 4. hand over all operations control to Jim Buss within 2 years 5. start cutting back severely on salaries after a bad season or two 6. Kupchak gets lured to Portland or New Jersey

Just saying... it doesn't have to go that way, but keeping Phil Jackson is the FIRST thing we must do.

OBVIOUSLY. Keeping Fisher, Brown, Odom or Bynum are just minor considerations compared to keeping Phil Jackson. No Phil = no championship.

Seriously... do we really want to fire Phil, without letting him have a final season farewell tour (+ 3peat)? Do we really want to return to the days of Del Harris/Kurt Rambis/Magic Johnson/Rudy Tomjanovich? Really?
Really?

KillaInstinct24
06-25-2010, 11:14 PM
theoretically if phil stopped getting those 35k fines all season and all playoffs, he could take a paycut and not notice much difference LOL

Anilyzer
06-26-2010, 08:50 PM
theoretically if phil stopped getting those 35k fines all season and all playoffs, he could take a paycut and not notice much difference LOL

Well that's very clever, however think about this:

What if right now, right at this moment, Jim Buss making a power play against Jeannie Buss, because he wants to be the one making the day to day decisions for the Lakers and thinks that he knows how to manage the team.

What if, since Phil Jackson is in a relationship with Jeannie Buss, Jim Buss sees keeping Phil Jackson as coach as something that will enhance Jeannie's position, and diminish his own.

What if Jim Buss, right now, is behind the scenes lobbying, and trying to make the case to Jerry Buss, that Phil Jackson isn't "worth it." What if right now he is saying something like:

"12 Million dollars a year? He doesn't even DO anything anymore. He just sits there. He doesn't even call timeouts. This team basically just coaches itself, and Phil Jackson gets ALL the credit for it. Phil Jackson is just sitting there, doing nothing, being made into a legend by Kobe and the Lakers, and making 12 million dollars for it. I mean, we all saw in the playoffs how the triangle offense got slowed down, got too predictable. We need CHANGE... I mean, I could probably go out there and coach the team myself if it was really necessary. Or Shaw, Byron Scott, Rambis, Fisher, Worthy, Van Gundy, Cleamons... basically ANYBODY would be just as good. I'm telling you Dad,
this team, with Kobe, is just unbeatable. We don't need to pay some stupid 'zen master' 10 or 12 million a year to sit there and take all the credit. We should start with a new coach, maybe even a coach who has never coached in the NBA before, somebody who will jump around, call timeouts, yell at the players -- make things happen! I'm telling you Dad, I've been watching this team all year and I've got it all figured out. I really feel strongly about this, it is the right move AND it will save us 8 million bucks a year. I feel just as strongly about this as I did about drafting Andrew Bynum. C'mon, please, let's just start interviewing coaches before they sign somewhere else. What if Shaw goes to NJ or Cleveland? What if Byron Scott signs somewhere? We HAVE to make a move."

I mean, if the Lakers don't make Phil a STRONG, COMMITTED offer to bring him back for at least one more legendary year, and just let him slink off to Montana, alone... it will diminish the Laker franchise in many ways. It will take some of the shine off of what is surely a Laker dynasty, and *newsflash* no way in heck do the Lakers win the title next year.

THEN the public arguments start again, Bynum this, Bynum that. Kobe's not happy. Of course, by summer 2011 Kobe will be a year older, and by that time maybe Jim Buss just decides "yeah, this Kobe guy is getting older, he's lost a step, we should just trade him for a draft pick and start rebuilding."

Then the Lakers basically become like Chicago after Michael Jordan, when Reisendorf and those clowns thought that THEY were the reason the Bulls got six titles. And, if you haven't noticed, they haven't had a sniff in more than 10 years, and it really wouldn't surprise me if they don't get a sniff for another 15 years. Why? Because they had something legendary, great, and they dismantled it out of ego, pettiness, cheapness and smugness. And it ALL STARTED with basically showing Phil Jackson the door "hey buddy, thanks for six titles, but, uhhh, we got this now, we don't need you anymore. Don't the door hit you on the way out."

Right?

We all know that if PJ had stayed in Chicago, they'd likely have at least 2, and probably more, championships. Over course maybe he didn't even want to because the Chicago front office acted like pinheads.

Ok, so anyways, let's just sit back and see what happens with Phil's "retirement drama" and if the Lakers make a serious play to keep him here.

Anilyzer
06-26-2010, 09:08 PM
And consider this also, as well:

There is no reason for Phil to lower his sperm count by taking a 50% pay cut from the Lakers.

15-20% cut to appx $10M, because the economics have changed? Sure, I could see that. But a cut to half his previous salary, while everybody else is cashing in their dividends and bonuses? No way.

Face it. The Lakers need Phil Jackson more than Phil Jackson needs the Lakers. Rather than lose face, and slog through another 82 game puppet show, Phil would likely just "retire" to Montana and take his legend with him. He will take his legend and his integrity and his vast basketball wisdom and move to Montana, and chill out till the Winter. Then he will do some really high paid TV work, maybe, and write the greatest book on basketball ever written. Teams will come crawling to him but he likely won't even consider coaching again before 2011, and then only if it is Lebron/Bosh/Wade, CP3/Howard in Cleveland or something like that.

But he doesn't need it anymore. The legendary season that we, and the NBA, lose next year we'll never get back. Likely the Lakers lose in the playoffs.

They get a new young coach, change up the style, get a great regular season record, then fall apart in the playoffs and lose in the WCF or even earlier. Then as I mentioned, Kobe gets frustrated, people start pointing fingers and cannibalizing each other, and all the fun starts. Pau Gasol gradually evolves into Vlade Divac 2.0, Kobe gets traded to the Knicks, 0and the Lakers don't see another title until they can draft another Kobe or find another Shaq in free agency.

Have a nice day. :)

Rocco007
06-26-2010, 09:31 PM
Yes!!!

It's his Free Agent Tour!!!

KillaInstinct24
06-26-2010, 10:27 PM
And consider this also, as well:

There is no reason for Phil to lower his sperm count by taking a 50% pay cut from the Lakers.

15-20% cut to appx $10M, because the economics have changed? Sure, I could see that. But a cut to half his previous salary, while everybody else is cashing in their dividends and bonuses? No way.

Face it. The Lakers need Phil Jackson more than Phil Jackson needs the Lakers. Rather than lose face, and slog through another 82 game puppet show, Phil would likely just "retire" to Montana and take his legend with him. He will take his legend and his integrity and his vast basketball wisdom and move to Montana, and chill out till the Winter. Then he will do some really high paid TV work, maybe, and write the greatest book on basketball ever written. Teams will come crawling to him but he likely won't even consider coaching again before 2011, and then only if it is Lebron/Bosh/Wade, CP3/Howard in Cleveland or something like that.

But he doesn't need it anymore. The legendary season that we, and the NBA, lose next year we'll never get back. Likely the Lakers lose in the playoffs.

They get a new young coach, change up the style, get a great regular season record, then fall apart in the playoffs and lose in the WCF or even earlier. Then as I mentioned, Kobe gets frustrated, people start pointing fingers and cannibalizing each other, and all the fun starts. Pau Gasol gradually evolves into Vlade Divac 2.0, Kobe gets traded to the Knicks, 0and the Lakers don't see another title until they can draft another Kobe or find another Shaq in free agency.

Have a nice day. :)

i dont disagree with you, but in business you always lowball. im pretty sure whoever suggested a 50% paycut didnt expect phil to say oh great let me sign that asap. but its a message from FO to Phil saying, u are coach and not GM. Ive never liked Jim and I hope he doesn't hate his sister that much, that would just be awful. I don't think the Lakers will sink like the Bulls did simply because Jerry is still the owner and is the greatest owner in sports, and Mitch is still GM, he's had bad days but more good days, Reinsdorf was a clown and everyone else in the Bulls org. The Lakers are in a far better place to rebound from losing Phil than they were in 2004. For one, the team is coming off a repeat championship, the center pieces are there, and theres no real "drama" in LA besides this Phil situation. Do I think we need to do what we can to retain Phil? Certainly, but we are not doomed without him.

shep33
06-26-2010, 10:50 PM
I don't think so. Really he's won 11 rings as a coach, what the heck is 12 at his age, and with his health concerns. I'm not saying he doesn't want it, but at the same time he has to look after himself first and foremost.

kblo247
06-26-2010, 11:01 PM
Phil hasn't been given a full clean bill of health according to David Aldridge.

He was told his heart was healthy. The hips and knees though are the problem as Phil needs something to manage that pain on those flights, and can't take certain medications that would alleviate it.

David said that the meds that would make him feel better, made him sick and were the reason he had to sit out the Portland game 2 years ago. Apparently Phil was said to be in so much pain at times that he couldn't physically get up in practice and demonstrate what he was telling the guys which has always been a staple of his coaching style and that is his biggest worry. Not the pain, but the fact he can't get out there and help teach his guys like he is used to doing and had to have Kobe and Fish demonstrate it instead.

It isn't about money, it is about a combo of his health and what he feels is effectiveness to be a hands on teacher like he is used to being.

ALTERIQUE
06-27-2010, 12:04 AM
Purely a negotiating ploy on the part of PJ. He will come back. Make him the highest paid NBA coach by a million smackaroos ought to do it. It shouldn't be about the money, just the prestige of being paid like he is the best to ever coach in the NBA.

Anilyzer
06-27-2010, 10:25 PM
Phil hasn't been given a full clean bill of health according to David Aldridge.

He was told his heart was healthy. The hips and knees though are the problem as Phil needs something to manage that pain on those flights, and can't take certain medications that would alleviate it.

David said that the meds that would make him feel better, made him sick and were the reason he had to sit out the Portland game 2 years ago. Apparently Phil was said to be in so much pain at times that he couldn't physically get up in practice and demonstrate what he was telling the guys which has always been a staple of his coaching style and that is his biggest worry. Not the pain, but the fact he can't get out there and help teach his guys like he is used to doing and had to have Kobe and Fish demonstrate it instead.

It isn't about money, it is about a combo of his health and what he feels is effectiveness to be a hands on teacher like he is used to being.

That makes sense. It is a big sacrifice for him and requires a lot of effort for him to commit to another season. Maybe he could get a Dr Evil wheelchair or something. Yeah his legs are just sooooo long, you can even see he was kind of awkward moving when he was a young coach.

But no doubt, it isn't automatic. He will really be making a sacrifice by coming back to save the Lakers' souls.