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JNA17
06-20-2010, 08:02 PM
Kobe Bryant finally answered the questions.

1) Who would you rather have -- him or LeBron James?

2) If you reached a Game 7, which guy would get you home?

3) If you needed one shot to win it all, which guy would you have take it?

And the answer is ...

Neither.

You better have a team if you want to win the Larry O'Brien Trophy. That's the overwhelming lesson from these NBA Finals, which ended in a seventh game that saw Bryant stink up the joint with his shooting, but still celebrate in a confetti shower -- thanks to guys like Ron Artest, Derek Fisher and Pau Gasol.

The myth of the single superstar was exploded this postseason. LeBron crapped out early. Dwyane Wade had one night. Dwight Howard was exposed, a Superman wearing nothing but a cape.

And in the end, when, according to the superstar handbook, Kobe was supposed to soar above the rest, he was mortal and earthbound and shaking his head and lying on the court with less than 10 minutes left, having just committed another turnover and a blocking foul. Jordan Farmar pulled him to his feet and told him not to dwell on negatives.

This from a guy who comes off the bench.

"I was on 'E,' " Bryant told the media after his fifth NBA championship. "I'm just glad my teammates really got us back in the game."

Teammates. What a concept!

The truth about defense

That was an interesting final game, but hardly a well-played one. Boston couldn't block out anyone -- surrendering a jaw-dropping 23 offensive rebounds -- and the L.A. Lakers, despite the raucous home crowd, couldn't shoot. How do you win an NBA title firing 33%?

You do it with scraps. You do it with put-backs. You do it with here and theres, this and thats, a charging foul, a third rebound. None of this is superstar stuff. Not only was Bryant, the King of the Lakers, less than great Thursday night, Paul Pierce, whom everyone keeps calling a superstar (I don't see it), played all but 2 1/2 minutes of the game and made five shots and three turnovers.

You gotta have a team. The Celtics proved that by reaching the Finals in the first place, and L.A. proved it by getting 20 points from Artest on Thursday and a huge fourth quarter from Fisher in Game 3. Without those numbers, they're not hoisting a trophy, no matter what Kobe puts up.

LeBron, judged the best player in the NBA, won six games and lost five this postseason. You simply cannot get it done by yourself in the playoffs. The regular season is a different animal. You blow into town, the opponent has a few hours to prepare for you, you drop 40 and fly off with a victory.

But give teams and coaches day after day to scheme and prep and adjust, and one guy can be shut down. LeBron was. Howard was. Wade was. And in Game 7, Kobe was. The man who would win the Finals MVP missed 18 of 24 shots on his last night, forcing jumpers over two and three defenders.

The truth about hard work

Which brings us to another truism of the NBA: Effort in this league is still a night-to-night thing. Did you see the defense the Celtics and Lakers played Thursday? It was beautiful, guys helping, doubling, racing over, sticking to their men.

Why can't you see that every night? Is it only when players realize there is no tomorrow? I think it is. NBA guys are increasingly short on fundamentals, defense is a secondary concern, and they seem to sense when a game is hopeless or when there's another night to try again. It's why you see so many blowouts. One side just sags; the other whomps.

But you rarely have such effort sags in, say, the Stanley Cup finals. The puck may not go in, but you don't see nightly fluctuations in how hard the guys play defense.

It's why the 2004 Pistons could win it all against a marquee-name Lakers team, or why the 2007 Spurs could sweep a title from LeBron and the Cavaliers. Defense. Team play. So corny, yet so vital.

One star fills your seats. Two, you can challenge. Three can get you a ring. But you better have the Fishers and Artests as well, or you're going home empty.

"Kobe passed me the ball!" Artest marveled to the media after the game. "He never passes me the ball!"

How about that? Who would have thought a postseason that began with just two names -- Kobe, LeBron -- would end with both of them so dependent on others?

http://www.freep.com/article/20100620/COL01/6200418/1320/You-cant-win-NBA-title-alone

Tony_Starks
06-20-2010, 08:09 PM
Kobe didn't shoot well but IMO he still had a great game. The great players are able to impact the game when they have bad shooting nights. He stepped up his rebounding, he was defending, making clutch free throws, timely assist.

To me that's what seperates Kobe from Lebron as the best. When Lebron wasn't scoring against Boston he had no impact on the game. At times he looked completely lost out there to the point it almost looked like he gave up.

JNA17
06-20-2010, 08:13 PM
Kobe didn't shoot well but IMO he still had a great game. The great players are able to impact the game when they have bad shooting nights. He stepped up his rebounding, he was defending, making clutch free throws, timely assist.

To me that's what seperates Kobe from Lebron as the best. When Lebron wasn't scoring against Boston he had no impact on the game. At times he looked completely lost out there to the point it almost looked like he gave up.

to me, despite kobe shooting horribly, he still had 23 points and 15 REBOUNDS! Think about that one, a SHOOTING GUARD, WITH 15 BOARDS! 12 more then Garnett, 3 more then big baby davis, despite the shooting, he contributed so much on the defensive end and the aggressiveness of that game. It's all about the little things and it seems most people forget about that.

Frrrrank!!!
06-20-2010, 08:16 PM
Kobe didn't shoot well but IMO he still had a great game. The great players are able to impact the game when they have bad shooting nights. He stepped up his rebounding, he was defending, making clutch free throws, timely assist.

To me that's what seperates Kobe from Lebron as the best. When Lebron wasn't scoring against Boston he had no impact on the game. At times he looked completely lost out there to the point it almost looked like he gave up.

I'm pretty sure you're affecting the game when you avg 27, 9, and 7. With over 2 steals and over a block a game. Could you imagine if he had a Gasol to pass to as well?

prodigy
06-20-2010, 08:17 PM
Ya Lebron can't do it alone, even more so when Lebron does not show up lol.

RaiderLakersA's
06-20-2010, 08:18 PM
It has always been about the team.

Blame the Jordan era reporters for swearing otherwise. The liars. They were so busy polishing His Airness's balls that they didn't even bother to hear Jordan early in his career when he kept saying that he needed a better center, a scrappier rebounder and defender, a guy who could make shots, a second ball handler, and off-ball threat, or that he could not do it without Pippen. Even in his HOF speech, he AGAIN reiterated that fact. Was anyone listening? No. This is how the truth gets buried, made easier when so many are willing to depart from reality.

It is now and always has been about the team. The fans of the NBA who were here long before Jordan-mania ALL know this. It's about time that the newer generations learned the same. Dispel those myths. Forget what you heard. Even the almighty Jordan needed a team around him. But don't take my word for it. Take his.

Sixerlover
06-20-2010, 08:21 PM
Obviously it's about the team. Even Jordan had the best perimeter defender of all time, a top 5 rebounder of all time, and the PERFECT PG for the triangle. When it was just him he was getting bounced out of the playoffs.

I hope Bron gets some help this summer. And no, not Mo Williams and Antwan Jamison help.

Tony_Starks
06-20-2010, 08:26 PM
I'm pretty sure you're affecting the game when you avg 27, 9, and 7. With over 2 steals and over a block a game. Could you imagine if he had a Gasol to pass to as well?


Those numbers look great but in the losses he was completely ineffective. He honestly didn't even look like the same player. You talk about Gasol but he had Jamison who has been like 19 and 10 his whole career last I checked. He had Parker who led the league in 3pt %. Shaq who is still better than half the Centers in the league... I can go on and on.

People give Lebron this "if he had a team" excuse like he's playing with absolute bums or something. He's been surrounded by solid players every year that are there solely to compliment his game.

prodigy
06-20-2010, 08:26 PM
Obviously it's about the team. Even Jordan had the best perimeter defender of all time, a top 5 rebounder of all time, and the PERFECT PG for the triangle. When it was just him he was getting bounced out of the playoffs.

I hope Bron gets some help this summer. And no, not Mo Williams and Antwan Jamison help.


LOL, your clearly not a sixers fan. So let me get this straight, you want Lebron to go team up with A couple other superstars and have a dynasty? you do know that means the sixers will suck right? lol.

albertc86
06-20-2010, 08:27 PM
Obviously it's about the team. Even Jordan had the best perimeter defender of all time, a top 5 rebounder of all time, and the PERFECT PG for the triangle. When it was just him he was getting bounced out of the playoffs.

Exactly. The one guy that would've given Jordan the most trouble defensively was on his team. I remember reading an article a few years back about former Bulls teammates of Jordan and Pippen, saying that the two used to play one-on-one after practice, and how it was the "best" game one-on-one that you would ever see. The Bulls had a great TEAM. As another poster mentioned, Jordan also had arguably the best rebounder of the past 20 years on his team in Rodman, who wasn't a bad defender either. He also had shooters and solid guards. I suppose you guys think he did it by himself because he didn't have a legit big man; he had everything else.

Sixerlover
06-20-2010, 08:29 PM
LOL, your clearly not a sixers fan. So let me get this straight, you want Lebron to go team up with A couple other superstars and have a dynasty? you do know that means the sixers will suck right? lol.

I'd like to see what LeBron can do with a superstar on his roster. Yeah i'm a Sixers fan and I understand we won't compete for a title for the next 3-4 years because our team is young

AND as a Sixer fan I just made it through a 7 game Boston / LA series. Nothing can be worse than that :D

prodigy
06-20-2010, 08:31 PM
People give Lebron this "if he had a team" excuse like he's playing with absolute bums or something. He's been surrounded by solid players every year that are there solely to compliment his game.


This 100% true. People Act like Jamison, Mo, Shaq, AV, hickson, Parker, West etc... are complete bums. Most of them had good careers before playing with Lebron.

But they did not step up in the playoffs. Which is the most important time of the year.

The thing is, Lebron could fix everything so fast. But he chooses not to. He could call Bosh right now and say "demand a trade to Cleveland". The raptors would do it so they can dump Jose or Turk.

But IDK. Ariza wanted to come here last season but wanted Lebron to commit first.

RaiderLakersA's
06-20-2010, 08:32 PM
AND as a Sixer fan I just made it through a 7 game Boston / LA series. Nothing can be worse than that :D

Ouch!!!

(Some on this forum are probably too young to know the reason for your pain, but I do.)

JNA17
06-20-2010, 08:36 PM
People give Lebron this "if he had a team" excuse like he's playing with absolute bums or something. He's been surrounded by solid players every year that are there solely to compliment his game.

you know what's funny, people have used this excuse for allen iverson as well. Even though in reality, he had solid players that were all great defensively including Dikembe Mutombo, sixth man of the year in 2001 Aaron McKie, but instead, people think that it was just allen iverson that did it all by himself. Then when he went to denver and had all the talent you could ask for, he actually hurt the nuggets team and billups proved it when they were trading spots.

This is why Allen Iverson and Lebron James are pretty much the same imo, both put up great numbers during their years, they were both hyped up as the next MJ since they were drafted, and both of them had excuses made u by fans that "if they had a team...blah blah blah".

Frrrrank!!!
06-20-2010, 08:40 PM
Those numbers look great but in the losses he was completely ineffective. He honestly didn't even look like the same player. You talk about Gasol but he had Jamison who has been like 19 and 10 his whole career last I checked. He had Parker who led the league in 3pt %. Shaq who is still better than half the Centers in the league... I can go on and on.

People give Lebron this "if he had a team" excuse like he's playing with absolute bums or something. He's been surrounded by solid players every year that are there solely to compliment his game.

Gasol is sooo much better than Jamison, Jamison was a 15 and 8 guy on the Cavs, not quite Gasol. After Jamison Lebron is suppose to go to Parker? Not quite a good 3rd option on a team. Then he has the dinosaur that is Shaq. Terrible on D and the pick and roll. He also only played 23 minutes per game in that series.

Give me a crippled Bynum, Gasol, Artest, Fisher, and Odom over that "team" called the Cavs any day.

There is a reason why Lebron avg more Stls, Blocks, Asts, Rbs, and shot better from the field and still lost. And it has nothing to do with any "little things" Kobe does.

RaiderLakersA's
06-20-2010, 08:51 PM
Give me a crippled Bynum, Gasol, Artest, Fisher, and Odom over that "team" called the Cavs any day.


I bet the reason why you take Bynum, Gasol, et al., isn't solely because of their talents, but their mental approach. Their fire and intensity.

Boston walked through the Cavs and the Magic because they won the battle of wills even before the first tip off. At points during the Cavs series you saw that LeBron didn't have it. Heck, it even looked like he checked out in one game. Ditto with some of his supporting cast. When a superstar doesn't have it, he finds other ways to make an impact, and his supporting cast fills the void. It all goes back to strength of will.

The only player who actually stepped up his game was Shaq. But Shaq has been there before.

shep33
06-20-2010, 08:52 PM
LBJ had a very good team this year, a lot of people here were calling them to win the title, but IMO he has to be the leader of his teams in a different way. Gotta get more serious in the playoffs, to take that next step I really think he's gotta have that focus like we saw between the Celtic and Laker players. They were just mentally tougher than any other team out there.

I actually think this was the biggest concern with him, I was watching his series vs the Celts and I was just in shock. He still put up the numbers when all is said and done, but I dunno if anyone wants to agree with me but he looked hesitant and almost scared.

Its weird I never seen him like that before, I honestly think one of the things he's got to work on is to quit all that playing around, the dancing, the singing, the hand signals, the intros, etc. and he's got to get that mentality like the Celtic and Laker players had. He needs to develop that instinct like Kobe or KG. Cause lets face it, the Celtics just scared the Cavs to death, they punched them in the face and the Cavs didn't punch back.

I think the playing around stuff is alright to a degree, but come playoff time you gotta get yourself in a zone where every play means everything, and just have that will to win.

I thought D12 developed that in games 4,5,6 in the ECF. First couple games they were having fun, goofing around, but come game 4 we saw a different Dwight Howard, no more jokes, but all business. And I think they LBJ and D12 both learned from that, and from watching the Lakers and Celtics throughout the playoffs. In a way it was a humbling loss, cause now they understand what it takes to win against teams like that, well hopefully anyways.

Sixerlover
06-20-2010, 08:55 PM
LBJ had a very good team this year, a lot of people here were calling them to win the title, but IMO he has to be the leader of his teams in a different way. Gotta get more serious in the playoffs, to take that next step I really think he's gotta have that focus like we saw between the Celtic and Laker players. They were just mentally tougher than any other team out there.

I actually think this was the biggest concern with him, I was watching his series vs the Celts and I was just in shock. He still put up the numbers when all is said and done, but I dunno if anyone wants to agree with me but he looked hesitant and almost scared.

Its weird I never seen him like that before, I honestly think one of the things he's got to work on is to quit all that playing around, the dancing, the singing, the hand signals, the intros, etc.

Hey man if Delonte was slaying your mom for the last 4 months and everyone knew except you, You wouldn't play the same either. :D

Tony_Starks
06-20-2010, 08:57 PM
Gasol is sooo much better than Jamison, Jamison was a 15 and 8 guy on the Cavs, not quite Gasol. After Jamison Lebron is suppose to go to Parker? Not quite a good 3rd option on a team. Then he has the dinosaur that is Shaq. Terrible on D and the pick and roll. He also only played 23 minutes per game in that series.

Give me a crippled Bynum, Gasol, Artest, Fisher, and Odom over that "team" called the Cavs any day.

There is a reason why Lebron avg more Stls, Blocks, Asts, Rbs, and shot better from the field and still lost. And it has nothing to do with any "little things" Kobe does.


If he had Gasol he'd probably avg 15 and 8 too guess why? Lebron dominates the ball. Its not easy to play in a system where its basically a one man show and everyone else gets the scraps. Iverson did it for years in Philly and it didn't work. You can win in the regular season but in the playoffs but nobody is going to let one man beat them. Then you're teammates aren't going to be able to come through in the clutch because they're not used to having the ball in those situations.

Until he learns to play in a actual system and makes his teammates better he's not getting a ring, I don't care who you pair him with. Kobe had to learn that.

shep33
06-20-2010, 08:58 PM
Hey man if Delonte was slaying your mom for the last 4 months and everyone knew except you, You wouldn't play the same either. :D

Haha very true, LBJ and Delonte need to go on Maury and settle this like gentleman

Frrrrank!!!
06-20-2010, 09:38 PM
If he had Gasol he'd probably avg 15 and 8 too guess why? Lebron dominates the ball. Its not easy to play in a system where its basically a one man show and everyone else gets the scraps. Iverson did it for years in Philly and it didn't work. You can win in the regular season but in the playoffs but nobody is going to let one man beat them. Then you're teammates aren't going to be able to come through in the clutch because they're not used to having the ball in those situations.

Until he learns to play in a actual system and makes his teammates better he's not getting a ring, I don't care who you pair him with. Kobe had to learn that.

Cause Kobe doesn't dominate the ball...

And with those players the only system that is going to beat good teams is Lebron's one man show. Kobe doesn't seem like he knows to share quite yet either, Lebron had twice as many assts than Kobe against the C's. While Kobe shot his teammates out of game 5 of the Finals and took shot after shot while all of them being contested in double teams in game 7, yet he still won because he TEAMMATES picked him up. There is no way Kobe could do what he did vs the C's with the Cavs roster and win.

Chronz
06-21-2010, 06:05 PM
you know what's funny, people have used this excuse for allen iverson as well. Even though in reality, he had solid players that were all great defensively including Dikembe Mutombo, sixth man of the year in 2001 Aaron McKie, but instead, people think that it was just allen iverson that did it all by himself. Then when he went to denver and had all the talent you could ask for, he actually hurt the nuggets team and billups proved it when they were trading spots.
Agreed on AI but this isnt the same scenario, and Billups was the better player and the better fit by that point so of course they improved.


This is why Allen Iverson and Lebron James are pretty much the same imo, both put up great numbers during their years, they were both hyped up as the next MJ since they were drafted, and both of them had excuses made u by fans that "if they had a team...blah blah blah".
Umm what? AI put up pedestrian stats, Kobe had better stats throughout their careers. Bron beats just about everyone statistically so of course thats a negative. Its hard to take anyone seriously when they say things like this.


If he had Gasol he'd probably avg 15 and 8 too guess why? Lebron dominates the ball. Its not easy to play in a system where its basically a one man show and everyone else gets the scraps.
LOL great statistical analysis, how about the fact that Antawn wasnt even close to Pau's level when neither played with a star, the fact that one is past his prime, has proven to shrink come playoff time, and cant guard a twig.



Iverson did it for years in Philly and it didn't work. You can win in the regular season but in the playoffs but nobody is going to let one man beat them.
Your AI-Bron parallel isnt making sense, what did AI do for years? He didnt win because hes not as good as Bron.


Then you're teammates aren't going to be able to come through in the clutch because they're not used to having the ball in those situations.
There would be no clutch situation if they handled the ball more, they would be down double digit.


Until he learns to play in a actual system and makes his teammates better he's not getting a ring, I don't care who you pair him with. Kobe had to learn that.
LMFAO please break down Kobes career for me, tell me when he figured it out, when he forgot, and when he figured it out again.