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View Full Version : Is trying to build a winner through free agency a mistake?



spreadeagle
06-19-2010, 02:50 AM
Looking back at some of last years big signings... Ariza to Houston ,Vince to Magic, Artest to Lakers "even though last night he played well,not been great this year" Turkoglu to Raptors and even Brand to Philly a while ago.All signed big deals and then went flat.Seems to me these guys sign fat deals and then put it on cruise control for a while.With all the free agency hype this year dont you think the way to build a winner is through the draft "Thunder" "Spurs" or shrewd trades like the Celtics getting KG for Al Jefferson,and the Lakers getting Gasol from the Grizzlies.If the Knicks put as much effort into scouting and drafting as they do at dumping contracts they might be better off.I think the upcoming draft day and the trades that will follow will have as much if not more impact then this free agent frenzy coming up.Thoughts?

abe_froman
06-19-2010, 02:57 AM
1.vince wasnt a signee

2.its doesnt matter how a good group of players is gotten,just that they are gotten.you really think it makes a difference if say your sg is a signee and not draftee or trade,it makes him better or worse player because of just that difference alone?...wow

UnWantedTheory
06-19-2010, 03:10 AM
Well you always want to build through the draft first, but FA can be just as important. The draft is a big deal, because if you hit big they come at a lower price compared to FA. Also, most of those players you stated were not going to legit contenders anyway...And Vince, who is 33, was traded to a loaded team. Bad fit there.

leftymo
06-19-2010, 03:15 AM
Championship teams are built through the draft and trades. Free agency has rarely been contributory... The only obvious one was 1996 when LA acquired Shaq via free agency.

While Artest helped them considerably in this series, look at their core guys...

Kobe, trade.
Pau, trade.
Odom, trade.
Bynum, draft.
Fisher, free agent, but originally drafted by LA.
Farmar, Sasha, Luke, draft.

Spurs? Manu, Parker, Duncan?
Celtics? Pierce, Allen, Rondo, KG? None thru free agency

spreadeagle
06-19-2010, 03:21 AM
Championship teams are built through the draft and trades. Free agency has rarely been contributory... The only obvious one was 1996 when LA acquired Shaq via free agency.

While Artest helped them considerably in this series, look at their core guys...

Kobe, trade.
Pau, trade.
Odom, trade.
Bynum, draft.
Fisher, free agent, but originally drafted by LA.
Farmar, Sasha, Luke, draft.

Spurs? Manu, Parker, Duncan?
Celtics? Pierce, Allen, Rondo, KG? None thru free agency

Exactly,To get a guy in FA you have to be willing to pay him more then any other team is willing to basically and in a salary cap era the draft is where its at.The nba lets the team they are on pay them more the next time around to keep em

iggypop123
06-19-2010, 03:26 AM
yeah its tough. the lakers had their own 2010 play a couple of years ago waiting for yao and amare. it failed, neither guy opted out. they had to keep their team intact

robdizzle3
06-19-2010, 03:28 AM
There is always that one piece that is missing and as long as you dont go crazy like Dan Snyder with the Skins you're straight. You have to have a good foundation and pick the right move before pulling the trigger.

JNA17
06-19-2010, 04:51 AM
it's tough but it could work out

NYKalltheway
06-19-2010, 05:20 AM
Was there really another season with players of LeBron, Wade(maybe not a FA after all), Bosh, Stoudamire, Boozer, Joe Johnson calibre, and perhaps other superstars(like Nowitzki) available through FA and teams with the cap space for two of them?

spreadeagle
06-19-2010, 05:40 AM
Was there really another season with players of LeBron, Wade(maybe not a FA after all), Bosh, Stoudamire, Boozer, Joe Johnson calibre, and perhaps other superstars(like Nowitzki) available through FA and teams with the cap space for two of them?

Hey if the knicks land lebron and any one of the other big names they wont have to worry bout the draft for about a decade, but if not there gunna end of payin Carlos Boozer and Joe Johnson way too much money lol

kblo247
06-19-2010, 06:00 AM
Was there really another season with players of LeBron, Wade(maybe not a FA after all), Bosh, Stoudamire, Boozer, Joe Johnson calibre, and perhaps other superstars(like Nowitzki) available through FA and teams with the cap space for two of them?

The only close free agency I can think of was the summer of 04
- Kobe
- Kidd
- Nash
- JO
- Ginobili
- Sheed
- Crawford
- Okur
- Boozer
- Q. Rich
- Turkoglu
- K. Mart
- Camby
- Dampier
- Fisher
- Bowen
- Dice
- Horry
- Divac
- Alston
- Birdman
- Pryzbilla

* T-Mac/Howard/Lue <-> Francis/Mobley/Cato trade
* Shaq <-> Odom/Butler/Grant trades

Lakerfan8032
06-19-2010, 06:39 AM
I think free agency is better used to enhance a team, not build a team.

The Raven
06-19-2010, 07:23 AM
I wouldnt say its a mistake but, if you build through the draft and make well thought out trades that help out a team, signing players in FA isnt a bad idea.

especially if you are missing a piece here or there that might seemingly get you over the hump, why wouldnt you do it

justinnum1
06-19-2010, 11:32 AM
Pat Riley is the master of this.

HOZ THE KNICK
06-19-2010, 11:35 AM
yankees win all the time threw free agency....

albertc86
06-19-2010, 11:36 AM
It's not a mistake. There are solid players to be had from the free agency wire.

ink
06-19-2010, 11:38 AM
yankees win all the time threw free agency....

No salary cap in baseball.

ink
06-19-2010, 11:38 AM
I think free agency is better used to enhance a team, not build a team.

This.

HOZ THE KNICK
06-19-2010, 11:38 AM
No salary cap in baseball.

i wish there was no cap in basketball as well.

justinnum1
06-19-2010, 11:43 AM
yankees win all the time threw free agency....

There is no Cap in baseball:facepalm:

mrker
06-19-2010, 11:56 AM
Yankees win all the time threw free agency.... Go check the Yankees roster and look who the core was from 1996 on and see how many were drafted or traded for .. not FA.. only in the last couple years has the yanks gone for CORE FA``s CC and TEXERIA and look at the 1996 to 2000 teams for sure.

td0tsfinest
06-19-2010, 12:06 PM
I personally would like my core player be drafted within the team. Signings have backfired before. A lot of people considered the sixers to be contenders when they got Brand, that definitely was not the case.

But it has worked before. When you are signing the right player, the right superstar. It could transform your team from being a playoff team to a contender like Shaq did to LA.

mrker
06-19-2010, 12:09 PM
1.vince wasnt a signee

2.its doesnt matter how a good group of players is gotten,just that they are gotten.you really think it makes a difference if say your sg is a signee and not draftee or trade,it makes him better or worse player because of just that difference alone?...wow

I think the point is ..that YES it does matter how the teams are put together. if you don`t think it does ,show me a team that has won at a good level and won at least one title that was put together thru FA`s on a bad team that made the new team a winner. If you want a recipe to work you must FOLLOW the recipe..It`s not that hard.... if i am wrong show me...if not WOW...you will never put a team together that works...if you don`t know what or who your players are or why and how they got there there...cause that makes a diffence at that level

mrker
06-19-2010, 12:14 PM
I personally would like my core player be drafted within the team. Signings have backfired before. A lot of people considered the sixers to be contenders when they got Brand, that definitely was not the case.

But it has worked before. When you are signing the right player, the right superstar. It could transform your team from being a playoff team to a contender like Shaq did to LA.

It has happened ONCE (shaq) of all the FA deal`s signed ONE works out for 1team ever but 1-3 franchise`s fan base thinks it`s about to happen. and the titles are going to flow

mrker
06-19-2010, 12:56 PM
YES it`s a mistake to build a teams core thru FA...Not data i can find shows you can win titles in any pro league thru FA as your primary method of getting players. Titles are the end of a REALLY LONG road for franchise`s and in the NBA by the time you can get your hands on Prime Stars it`s to late to start down the road, if WADE gets LJB then it could be a shaq situation(dynasty). if not LBJ and someone will match up with WADE and someone very well every year and will make sure no team is head and shoulder up on the rest of the league, can you win some games thru FA? ....yes ...Can you win titles with FA as the core? Hasn`t happened yet...Two max players means two max ego`s and what happens if , now they on the same team they clash over the who`s name is bigger, something they didn`t plan on..( who is the man on a LBJ, BOSH or WADE/Bosh team and would bosh live with knowing that he would always be ROBIN to someone else`s BATMAN) does he want to be KAREEM or James worthy, both hall of famers, but one was BATMAN type and one was a ROBIN(worthy)

Kakaroach
06-19-2010, 01:06 PM
Just ask Sam Presti and the OKC Thunder what they think. The only free agent they've signed that has had an impact on their team is Nenad Kristic.

mrker
06-19-2010, 01:11 PM
Just ask Sam Presti and the OKC Thunder what they think. The only free agent they've signed that has had an impact on their team is Nenad Kristic.

OKC had the luxury of being basically and expansion like team. Seattle stripped it to the bone before moving it So they could go slow thru the draft. and had pieces from the R. Allen trade...The knicks got nothing but money. No pieces to play with .

BlkProphet79
06-19-2010, 01:56 PM
OKC had the luxury of being basically and expansion like team. Seattle stripped it to the bone before moving it So they could go slow thru the draft. and had pieces from the R. Allen trade...The knicks got nothing but money. No pieces to play with .

I find it ironic, how this thread was tailor-made for folks to take a swing at the Knicks. Everyone else looked at this as a hypothetical situation, while you go straight for the jugular and attack the Knicks. Why so much hate?

You already stated your opinion on the Does anyone agree with the Knicks approach to Free agency thread. We get it.

mrker
06-19-2010, 04:42 PM
I find it ironic, how this thread was tailor-made for folks to take a swing at the Knicks. Everyone else looked at this as a hypothetical situation, while you go straight for the jugular and attack the Knicks. Why so much hate?

You already stated your opinion on the Does anyone agree with the Knicks approach to Free agency thread. We get it.

It`s not about the Knicks...i really would love to see them win but the question is"Is trying to build a winner through FA a mistake. the answer is yes.. And this year it`s the Knicks...Next Year some one else.and so on and so on. I hate when people don`t look at history and try and say this or that will work. WADE has a shot at winning more titles cause he is the core of a stable team.. 3-5 years ago you could say we will need this type of player or that type but you had years to find the flaws in wade`s game(very,very few) and then find the pieces that he needs to win more. and the team knows him as a person..If LBJ, Bosh or anybody else leaves do you think that their new team will "know" the little things that he does and how to be aware of them..No ..Relationships take years to grow And adding two core pieces, just adds to the mix. This is about what works, not what looks good. Again if LBJ and Bosh end up in NY...Good...If they win titles.....Great...Just know if they do it, then we will be seeing something never done before since the start of FA.. Cause it usually takes a couple of years for a team to gel and for management to fill what ever gaps that come up......Again the knicks of today ...I don`t Love or hate...If Walsh`s FA moves work out , i just might fear them a little but as a threat to my team not as a threat to the whole NBA..But the knicks of Thomas still makes me laugh but after this year ALL those mistakes are gone and a brand new era starts..

mrker
06-19-2010, 05:08 PM
I find it ironic, how this thread was tailor-made for folks to take a swing at the Knicks. Everyone else looked at this as a hypothetical situation, while you go straight for the jugular and attack the Knicks. Why so much hate?

You already stated your opinion on the Does anyone agree with the Knicks approach to Free agency thread. We get it.
And what do you mean everybody else looked at it as Hypothetical situation? You mean building thru FA, Fine then if you have a great bench and cap space for two max deals. SURE Sounds peachy keen. but if all you have is Two max deals then no. Sign one , build a bench, then use your picks moving forward and whatever you get over the next 1-3 years to make a move on a trade to bring someone else in to fill in the holes.. or sign your guy and draft around him...Let the team grow, it`s the only way......* Boston 3 ageing super stars vets determined to win at all costs only exception, still had pierce to start with

magichatnumber9
06-19-2010, 05:35 PM
It all depends on how smart your gm is

heathonater
06-19-2010, 06:03 PM
for a team that is not bad enough to get an impact player in the draft, i think free agency is a good way to build a team if done right. not every team gets the luxury of drafting in the top 5 for several years. obviously, you need to draft your core players from the draft, but free agency should also be used to improve the pieces your team already has.

homestarunner93
06-19-2010, 06:10 PM
You don't build through FA, you supplement through FA.

ko8e24
06-19-2010, 06:14 PM
At the OP, what does Artest have to do with this thread?

The Lakers were already a winner the yr prior. They didn't have to "build a winner", they just wanted to "stay on top".

RaiderLakersA's
06-19-2010, 06:20 PM
I think free agency is better used to enhance a team, not build a team.

I agree with this philosophy. Draft shrewdly and build a strong core group. Then add key established fillers either via trade or FA.

netsgiantsyanks
06-19-2010, 06:23 PM
id rather see my favorite team built through a draft rather than free agency because even though this years free agency is going to be the bomb, the last few years teams have been giving free agents humongous contracts and it back fied i.e. elton brand

JordansBulls
06-19-2010, 06:26 PM
Looking back at some of last years big signings... Ariza to Houston ,Vince to Magic, Artest to Lakers "even though last night he played well,not been great this year" Turkoglu to Raptors and even Brand to Philly a while ago.All signed big deals and then went flat.Seems to me these guys sign fat deals and then put it on cruise control for a while.With all the free agency hype this year dont you think the way to build a winner is through the draft "Thunder" "Spurs" or shrewd trades like the Celtics getting KG for Al Jefferson,and the Lakers getting Gasol from the Grizzlies.If the Knicks put as much effort into scouting and drafting as they do at dumping contracts they might be better off.I think the upcoming draft day and the trades that will follow will have as much if not more impact then this free agent frenzy coming up.Thoughts?

Not if you already have a franchise player.

In those cases, the Magic already had Dwight. The Rockets already has Yao, The Celtics already had Pierce.

Once you have a franchise player you can get another one any method, whether it is by trade, FA, draft, etc.

kingkenny01
06-19-2010, 06:34 PM
the only worth it free agents are tier one free agents like wade and lebron and maybe bosh but every other one will be grossly overpayed and not improve their team alone

mrker
06-19-2010, 07:13 PM
the only worth it free agents are tier one free agents like wade and lebron and maybe bosh but every other one will be grossly overpayed and not improve their team alone
I even doubt the money payed to LBJ, BOSH and WADE unless they stay at home.. one joins someone in one of those 3 cities.... or ends up in Chicago..only other place Legit Pieces are in place for a title run..Cause you need star players(who want to stay) with bird rights when their deals are up.. so you can keep winning year after year and don`t have to change over your roster so fast.....It will be hard for any team outside of Miami that gets 2 max guys to fill any holes for the first couple of years due to minor cap problems that will come from those deals...so you have to have quality drafts to make up for it or a Strong Reason for guys to take less(sometimes alot) money year after year till your max guys title window is up..

The Jokemaker
06-19-2010, 07:30 PM
yankees win all the time threw free agency....

this is a fallacy. Jeter, Rivera, Posada, Gardner, Cano, Pettite, Cervelli, Hughes, Joba are all homegrown fella. And guys like Arod, Granderson, Javy were acquired by trading prospects from their system.

but on to the hand of the topic. Yes I think it is possible to build through free agency and it's not a mistake. Sometimes its the only way to acquire the key piece to your team for it to build around in the future. I think the best way to build is through both Free agency and the draft. It is possible though to build a great team quick through free agency but you must supplement through the draft. Lebron and Amare/Bosh on a team would automatically be a great team just because of those two players. They would obviously need to sign a few other guys but in the future they would definitely need to add pieces through the draft.

cheetos185
06-19-2010, 08:09 PM
Hey if the knicks land lebron and any one of the other big names they wont have to worry bout the draft for about a decade, but if not there gunna end of payin Carlos Boozer and Joe Johnson way too much money lol

walsh has already stated he's not overpaying if he doesnt get players he wants

mrker
06-19-2010, 08:50 PM
walsh has already stated he's not overpaying if he doesnt get players he wants
:eyebrow:
What will Knick fan say if Walsh doesn`t get LBJ or Bosh at max money, Then won`t overpay for Johnson, Amare or Boozer And then tells the fans wait til next year and starts the re-build from the ground up? I don`t seeing that going over well. But i don`t cheer the knicks so i don`t REALLY know.

spreadeagle
06-19-2010, 09:07 PM
for a team that is not bad enough to get an impact player in the draft, i think free agency is a good way to build a team if done right. not every team gets the luxury of drafting in the top 5 for several years. obviously, you need to draft your core players from the draft, but free agency should also be used to improve the pieces your team already has.

The spurs draft great players in the late first and second round.They got it down pact.

iFYouSeekAmy
06-19-2010, 09:14 PM
You don't build through FA, you supplement through FA.

Agree.

drobe86
06-19-2010, 09:19 PM
In NBA basketball No. The Nba draft is horrible most years. Only 4-6 rookies make an impact in the NBA in a single season at all. If you don't have a top 3 pick nowadays most of the time those guys don't pan out. There are exceptions to the rule but rarely. In the NBA you MUST build though free agency.

Lakersho
06-19-2010, 09:47 PM
yankees win all the time threw free agency....

...yes they do ,but look at thier payroll for one year. and wasn't it 2 years ago the rays beat the living shite out of them, with a team created thru the draft that cost under 100 mill. ayear. so in a way they're a bad xsample...

Lakersho
06-19-2010, 09:52 PM
id rather see my favorite team built through a draft rather than free agency because even though this years free agency is going to be the bomb, the last few years teams have been giving free agents humongous contracts and it back fied i.e. elton brand

:clap::clap::clap:

Lakersho
06-19-2010, 09:53 PM
for a team that is not bad enough to get an impact player in the draft, i think free agency is a good way to build a team if done right. not every team gets the luxury of drafting in the top 5 for several years. obviously, you need to draft your core players from the draft, but free agency should also be used to improve the pieces your team already has.

correct ,well said...

The Jokemaker
06-19-2010, 10:13 PM
id rather see my favorite team built through a draft rather than free agency because even though this years free agency is going to be the bomb, the last few years teams have been giving free agents humongous contracts and it back fied i.e. elton brand

the elton brand deal wasn't so much bad as it was bad player for that team. His style of play didn't fit that 76ers team at all and it has caused them problems since. If Brand had been on a different team, he would be playing much better and not a burden of a contract.

However this does bring up a point that free agency will tend to get teams with money to spend on players they might not otherwise do simply because theyre who available. The Grizzlies needed a center years back and one of the "top" ones available was Darko and they signed him to 3 year deal. He got big money because he was simply the best available. This is the danger of relying on free agency to build because you may get a bonafide star and pay for him or you may get stuck paying big money to a pretender star. Think 16 million a year for Kobe and 16 million a year to Joe Johnson as an example.

DengelBerry
06-20-2010, 09:10 AM
yes remember Lakers in 04. all i can say is SHAQ, MALONE, KOBE, and PAYTON.

ghermaine
06-20-2010, 10:28 AM
Using Free Agents can help build a team but history shows us that in the past decade it should not be relied upon. I have thought about the last 10 championship teams and thier top two players to see if they had been signed through free agency, traded or drafted. This should give you an idea of the importance of free agency;

2001-Lakers (1) Shaq -Free Agent(2) Kobe - Draft
2002-Lakers (1) Shaq -Free Agent (2) Kobe - Draft
2003-Spurs (1) Duncan -Draft (2) Gino/Parker- Draft
2004-Pistons (1) Billips - Free Agent(2) R. Wallace - Trade
The parity of this team makes this choice difficult but i went with the floor leader and the player who put them over the top.
2005-Spurs (1) Duncan -Draft (2) Gino/Parker- Draft
2006-Heat (1) Wade - Draft (2) Shaq - Free agent
2007-Spurs (1) Duncan -Draft (2) Gino/Parker- Draft
2008-Celtics (1) Garnett - Trade (2) Pierce Draft
2009-Lakers (1) Kobe - Draft (2) Gasol - Trade
2010-Lakers (1) Kobe - Draft (2) Gasol - Trade

After looking through the past decade, and the three main ways to aquire a player (free agency, trade and draft), it's clear that only Shaq and Billups were free agents who made a invaluable contribution to a championship team. The majority of Championship teams best two players come through the draft (12 out of 20) where as trades (4 out of 20) and Free agents (4 out of 20) were considerably less. If you take Shaq out of the mix only C.Billups has been a free agent who lead or side-kicked his way to a championship in the last decade.

In addition, if think about the 80's and 90's top championship teams, Magic(drafted) and Kareem(traded), Bird (drafted) and Mchale(drafted) Isiah Thomas (drafted) Dr J (N/A) and Moses (Free Agent), Olajuwon (drafted) and Drexler (trade), Jordan (drafted) and Pippen (traded), you can see a clear focus on drafting a great player and supporting them through another draftee or a trade rather than a big free agent. Granted the climate and rules were different but the point remains valid.

Bottom line, free agents can be good to support a championship team, however, when it comes to building your team free agency is more Tito than Micheal in the long run.

magichatnumber9
06-20-2010, 10:55 AM
Most free agents are free agents because they want the money. This concept about players having the control to create there own dynasty seems kind of new. I don't like it, it's a players league, and the players have to realize they have the ultimate power of destroying the league at it's foundation.

spoonhoops
06-20-2010, 11:11 AM
I think you can build through free agency, but it can only be part of the equation unless you are trying to sign a LeBron James and a Chris Bosh.

Kyben36
06-20-2010, 11:21 AM
here is the way I think you need to build a winner

1st step - 3 good drafts in a row. this is key, getting 3 young top draft picks
2nd step, get expirings for the young players 4th year ( in other words, if your first good draft pick on your team was from 1991, you need expirings for 1994. this gives you 3 rok contracts, and a ton of cap room. your 3 key players that you have drafted will be OK, but not enough to win you a championship
3rd step ( make a splash in FA. ) this is what makes you a Portland or a Wariors.

Teams like the porltand trail blazers ( however, Turkaglu didnt work out ) imo, they need one more players to be a real contender.

Bornknick73
06-20-2010, 11:54 AM
With respect to your thread title this is about the Knicks. The NY Knicks are the first team in the history of the NBA to try to build a entire team in 1 off season. Rebuilding takes years through the draft and is the proper way to go, but NY doesnt have that kind of time. This is gonna go down as one of the great turn arounds of all time or like your title suggests the biggest mistake ever. What the Knicks are attempting in my 37 year memory has never been tried before.

I think the question should be -Is trying to build a entire team into a winner in one offseason a mistake?

Seeing as this is the first time its ever been tried I guess we'll have to see.

I prefer to draft players. Draft players seem more loyal to the teams that originally drafted them. It means more to them playing for that team then a guy who takes big money to come play for your team.

Tony_Starks
06-20-2010, 05:53 PM
The problem with Free Agents is that you're expecting a player to have the same productivity with a different system, different coach, and different players. When thats a role player its not a big deal but when if its going to be one of you're main guys it can really backfire.

Take Bosh for example. He's been putting up nice numbers on a garbage team with the green light to shoot at will. If he goes somewhere where he's not the #1 option will he be as effective?

sNaKeS
06-20-2010, 06:10 PM
Using Free Agents can help build a team but history shows us that in the past decade it should not be relied upon. I have thought about the last 10 championship teams and thier top two players to see if they had been signed through free agency, traded or drafted. This should give you an idea of the importance of free agency;

2001-Lakers (1) Shaq -Free Agent(2) Kobe - Draft
2002-Lakers (1) Shaq -Free Agent (2) Kobe - Draft
2003-Spurs (1) Duncan -Draft (2) Gino/Parker- Draft
2004-Pistons (1) Billips - Free Agent(2) R. Wallace - Trade
The parity of this team makes this choice difficult but i went with the floor leader and the player who put them over the top.
2005-Spurs (1) Duncan -Draft (2) Gino/Parker- Draft
2006-Heat (1) Wade - Draft (2) Shaq - Free agent
2007-Spurs (1) Duncan -Draft (2) Gino/Parker- Draft
2008-Celtics (1) Garnett - Trade (2) Pierce Draft
2009-Lakers (1) Kobe - Draft (2) Gasol - Trade
2010-Lakers (1) Kobe - Draft (2) Gasol - Trade

After looking through the past decade, and the three main ways to aquire a player (free agency, trade and draft), it's clear that only Shaq and Billups were free agents who made a invaluable contribution to a championship team. The majority of Championship teams best two players come through the draft (12 out of 20) where as trades (4 out of 20) and Free agents (4 out of 20) were considerably less. If you take Shaq out of the mix only C.Billups has been a free agent who lead or side-kicked his way to a championship in the last decade.

In addition, if think about the 80's and 90's top championship teams, Magic(drafted) and Kareem(traded), Bird (drafted) and Mchale(drafted) Isiah Thomas (drafted) Dr J (N/A) and Moses (Free Agent), Olajuwon (drafted) and Drexler (trade), Jordan (drafted) and Pippen (traded), you can see a clear focus on drafting a great player and supporting them through another draftee or a trade rather than a big free agent. Granted the climate and rules were different but the point remains valid.

Bottom line, free agents can be good to support a championship team, however, when it comes to building your team free agency is more Tito than Micheal in the long run.

Chauncey was actually traded to the pistons. He was traded with Ben Wallace from the magic to the pistons in exchange for Grant Hill. Also, shaq was traded from the lakers to the heat for Odom, Caron Butler, and others.

Team*Chicago
06-20-2010, 06:27 PM
Using Free Agents can help build a team but history shows us that in the past decade it should not be relied upon. I have thought about the last 10 championship teams and thier top two players to see if they had been signed through free agency, traded or drafted. This should give you an idea of the importance of free agency;

2001-Lakers (1) Shaq -Free Agent(2) Kobe - Draft
2002-Lakers (1) Shaq -Free Agent (2) Kobe - Draft
2003-Spurs (1) Duncan -Draft (2) Gino/Parker- Draft
2004-Pistons (1) Billips - Free Agent(2) R. Wallace - Trade
The parity of this team makes this choice difficult but i went with the floor leader and the player who put them over the top.
2005-Spurs (1) Duncan -Draft (2) Gino/Parker- Draft
2006-Heat (1) Wade - Draft (2) Shaq - Free agent
2007-Spurs (1) Duncan -Draft (2) Gino/Parker- Draft
2008-Celtics (1) Garnett - Trade (2) Pierce Draft
2009-Lakers (1) Kobe - Draft (2) Gasol - Trade
2010-Lakers (1) Kobe - Draft (2) Gasol - Trade

After looking through the past decade, and the three main ways to aquire a player (free agency, trade and draft), it's clear that only Shaq and Billups were free agents who made a invaluable contribution to a championship team. The majority of Championship teams best two players come through the draft (12 out of 20) where as trades (4 out of 20) and Free agents (4 out of 20) were considerably less. If you take Shaq out of the mix only C.Billups has been a free agent who lead or side-kicked his way to a championship in the last decade.

In addition, if think about the 80's and 90's top championship teams, Magic(drafted) and Kareem(traded), Bird (drafted) and Mchale(drafted) Isiah Thomas (drafted) Dr J (N/A) and Moses (Free Agent), Olajuwon (drafted) and Drexler (trade), Jordan (drafted) and Pippen (traded), you can see a clear focus on drafting a great player and supporting them through another draftee or a trade rather than a big free agent. Granted the climate and rules were different but the point remains valid.

Bottom line, free agents can be good to support a championship team, however, when it comes to building your team free agency is more Tito than Micheal in the long run.

I'm not trying to be a rude smart -ss but the Lakers never drafted Kobe Bryant. Kobe was drafted by the Charlette Hornets(now the New Orleans Hornets). The Lakers traded Vlade Divac for Kobe Bryant. The Heat got Shaq through a trade not through free agency.

But I do agree with you.

Tony_Starks
06-20-2010, 06:55 PM
With respect to your thread title this is about the Knicks. The NY Knicks are the first team in the history of the NBA to try to build a entire team in 1 off season. Rebuilding takes years through the draft and is the proper way to go, but NY doesnt have that kind of time. This is gonna go down as one of the great turn arounds of all time or like your title suggests the biggest mistake ever. What the Knicks are attempting in my 37 year memory has never been tried before.

I think the question should be -Is trying to build a entire team into a winner in one offseason a mistake?

Seeing as this is the first time its ever been tried I guess we'll have to see.

I prefer to draft players. Draft players seem more loyal to the teams that originally drafted them. It means more to them playing for that team then a guy who takes big money to come play for your team.


Yeah I prefer the draft approach as well. Like the Knicks as you mentioned have been so busy clearing space for the big 2010 gamble that they blew an opportunity to draft Brandon Jennnings who could've been an franchise player for them. If you notice the teams that are consistent over the years like the Spurs, Lakers, Mavericks, etc... always draft well, regardless of position.