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Matchstckman
06-19-2010, 12:17 AM
Because I've earned it!

CubbieSteve
06-19-2010, 12:44 AM
I have heard from some of my 'strong' sources that the Nationals are discussing a deal with the Cubs involving Stephen Strasburg and Dimitri Young

Stay tuned.

cowboydoc45
06-19-2010, 01:47 AM
I have heard from some of my 'strong' sources that the Nationals are discussing a deal with the Cubs involving Stephen Strasburg and Dimitri Young

Stay tuned.

All for the cost of Theriot and Grabow... :eyebrow:

Vandelay16
06-19-2010, 02:16 AM
All for the cost of Theriot and Grabow... :eyebrow:

I wouldn't pull the trigger if I were Jim. Gotta have some scrappy and someone has to pleasure Lou.

cowboydoc45
06-19-2010, 09:49 AM
I wouldn't pull the trigger if I were Jim. Gotta have some scrappy and someone has to pleasure Lou.

No kidding, and that Strasburg kid is overhyped

justndav
06-20-2010, 08:30 PM
In all seriousness its time to start putting out feelers everywhere on our high priced, free agent to be players. Put the feelers out for Lee, Lilly, and also Fukudome, Zambrano, even Soriano, Theriot, Gorzelanny, Howry, and whoever else isnt in the long term plans for the team. Talk to Lee before hand and ask him who he would waive his no trade clause to go to same with Zambrano and start working some potential deals. When the word gets out the bids may go up for Lilly especially. Dodgers, Rangers, Red Sox, Yankees, Braves, and Twins could all be interested in Lilly. Then start looking at those systems and get a grade a group of spects in return to load up the farm system.

justndav
06-20-2010, 08:38 PM
Also I would imagine the Tigers, Mets, and perhaps a few other teams could be interested in Lilly as well.

Reese's
06-21-2010, 03:48 AM
Does anyone think that we'd be able to get a very nice return from San Diego IF we packaged Theriot AND Fukudome & paid a good chunk of Fuku's deal?

BcEuAbRsS
06-21-2010, 06:20 PM
Does anyone consider Carlos Pena as a one year option? He is having a down year and may take a one year deal to try and increase his value for the following offseason... Pena has always been good with the glove at 1st...

CUBDOM4life
06-21-2010, 06:26 PM
Does anyone consider Carlos Pena as a one year option? He is having a down year and may take a one year deal to try and increase his value for the following offseason... Pena has always been good with the glove at 1st...

Certainly something to look in to. Next year will be the cheapest for anyone to sign him because of the supply and demand of other 1b's.

ABTY7
06-21-2010, 06:33 PM
If we go to sell mode (big if) I'd expect the following to be shopped and likely receive interest:

-Ryan Theriot
-Carlos Silva
-Carlos Zambrano
-John Grabow
-Derrick Lee
-Kosuke Fukudome
-Sean Marshall
-Mike Fontenot
-Ted Lilly
-Tom Gorzelanny

ABTY7
06-21-2010, 06:33 PM
If we go to sell mode (big if) I'd expect the following to be shopped and likely receive interest:

-Ryan Theriot
-Carlos Silva
-Carlos Zambrano
-John Grabow
-Derrick Lee
-Kosuke Fukudome
-Sean Marshall
-Mike Fontenot
-Ted Lilly
-Tom Gorzelanny

cubsbullsbears2
06-21-2010, 06:46 PM
i highly doubt we trade gorzelanny or marshall...too affordable and solid production

dyceman
06-21-2010, 10:11 PM
I agree, keep Gorzo and Marshall; let the bidding begin on the rest...

Reese's
06-21-2010, 10:41 PM
Yeah both are signed fairly cheap for a few more years and have done well for us. Plus they're still young. No need to deal them away.

chicagofan71
06-21-2010, 11:42 PM
Someone on the FanGraphs comments suggested Theriot for Kila Kai'uhe. All i gotta say is sign me up, and Dayton Moore is dumb enough to pull it off

1908_Cubs
06-21-2010, 11:45 PM
Someone on the FanGraphs comments suggested Theriot for Kila Kai'uhe. All i gotta say is sign me up, and Dayton Moore is dumb enough to pull it off

Dayton Moore is a goddamned idiot. Holy hell. I've been laughing my *** off at the Royals since the second they hired him.

chicagofan71
06-21-2010, 11:47 PM
Dayton Moore is a goddamned idiot. Holy hell. I've been laughing my *** off at the Royals since the second they hired him.

Oh yes. Not to mention that would add to their stockpile of mediocre MINFers, and since Kila Ka'aihue is their version of Matt Murton, it makes perfect sense for Moore

justndav
06-22-2010, 06:43 AM
Of all the players we have I'd keep Casher, Castro, Bryd, Colvin, Soto, probably Baker, Gorzelanny, Marmol, Marshall, possibly Wells, and honestly thats probably about it... everyone else I would make available for trade. Of course for the big guys like Lilly, Lee, Zambrano, Dempster, Aramis (who we'll keep since he has no value now), Soriano (probably untradeable due to contract), Fukudome (again may have issues trading him due to contract), and Silva (it'd be tough for me to trade him after the year he's had) I would want bonafide ML talent in return. I'd love to offer Randy Wells and Soriano to the Royals with us paying half of Soriano's contract for David DeJesus (us picking up his contract in full)... OF then of DeJesus, Bryd, Colvin/Fukudome. Then ship out Lilly to the Angels or Dodgers for ML ready talent at 1B, 2B, or SP. Zambrano to the Mets or Red Sox again for ML Ready talent in the starting rotation or IF. Dempster to the Rangers, Twins, Tigers, or whoever again for some top pitching prospect or IF prospect with us perhaps picking up some salary. Derek Lee might come in handy to the Angels package him with Lilly and get a pretty solid package of players back. Or perhaps send Lee and Josh Vitters to the Rangers for Justin Smoak or Chris Davis and a AA prospect. Other guys like Theriot, Fontenot, Baker, Nady, Tracy, Grabow, and others are only going to get you minor returns or minor prospects so not expecting a whole lot for those guys. Again just some ideas I'm throwing out there and we'll see what happens. I just don't see us turning it around and the White Sox series really caught us when we were reeling and the reeling has basically continued. I cannot defend this organization if we aren't sellers at the deadline unless we have some kind of miracle turnaround and Aramis comes back and is the Aramis of old.

Ron!n
06-22-2010, 09:56 AM
FWIW the new Elias ratings are out. Lee just missed Type A by like half a point. Id imagine if his recent tear continues hed get to A.
Lilly is Type A by a good bit though.

Also the numbers are on ************** and its exclusive to them.

poodski
06-22-2010, 10:35 AM
Again though this is ONLY if we tender them a contract. I see no way we offer Lee a contract after the season. Lee to me is as sure of a bet of non-tender as there is.

Lilly on the other hand is a toss-up.

Ron!n
06-22-2010, 10:55 AM
Again though this is ONLY if we tender them a contract. I see no way we offer Lee a contract after the season. Lee to me is as sure of a bet of non-tender as there is.

Lilly on the other hand is a toss-up.
Sure, but it has definite impact on their trade value.

I also really think we should take a chance on Lilly and/or Lee with contracts. We need a stopgap 1B anyways and if they decline we could make a killing in next years loaded draft class.

poodski
06-22-2010, 11:11 AM
Sure, but it has definite impact on their trade value.

I also really think we should take a chance on Lilly and/or Lee with contracts. We need a stopgap 1B anyways and if they decline we could make a killing in next years loaded draft class.

Not with Lee I dont think it holds any value. He is looking at getting what 15 million in arbitration or so. No team is going to take that risk right now.

If you want Lee then might as well keep him and offer him some sort of 2 year 12 million dollar deal at like 8 in 2011 and 4 in 2012. 1B like Lee are just too common now and make much less.

Lilly is a much better possibility, and a decent one, but is also getting older. Jason Marquis and Joel Piniero netted an extra pick for their teams last year.

Jilly Bohnson
06-22-2010, 01:10 PM
Not with Lee I dont think it holds any value. He is looking at getting what 15 million in arbitration or so. No team is going to take that risk right now.

If you want Lee then might as well keep him and offer him some sort of 2 year 12 million dollar deal at like 8 in 2011 and 4 in 2012. 1B like Lee are just too common now and make much less.

Lilly is a much better possibility, and a decent one, but is also getting older. Jason Marquis and Joel Piniero netted an extra pick for their teams last year.

Lilly I think is a pretty good bet to offer arbitration to unless things change soon. Lee on the other hand would have to go ******* in the second half and maybe even then it wouldn't for sure be safe.

hrubes20
06-22-2010, 02:17 PM
Lilly I think is a pretty good bet to offer arbitration to unless things change soon. Lee on the other hand would have to go ******* in the second half and maybe even then it wouldn't for sure be safe.

Because if he does indeed go crazy, he is likely a Type A FA, which further decreases his potential suitors. Lee needs to be dealt, otherwise we won't be getting any compensation for losing him, other than salary relief.

Mell413
06-22-2010, 03:57 PM
Not sure if it belongs here, but I thought I should mention it. Apparently Tom Hicks can't sell the Rangers without satisfying his creditors. So that should prevent them from adding expensive players. So that's one less team we can deal guys like Lilly to.

http://startelegramsports.typepad.com/foul_territory/2010/06/judge-deals-apparent-setback-to-rangers-hope-for-quick-sale.html

Jilly Bohnson
06-22-2010, 04:00 PM
Because if he does indeed go crazy, he is likely a Type A FA, which further decreases his potential suitors. Lee needs to be dealt, otherwise we won't be getting any compensation for losing him, other than salary relief.

Yeah if Lee will waive his clause for anyone he needs to be sent there, because it's very unlikely we'll get anything for him this winter.

Jilly Bohnson
06-22-2010, 04:04 PM
Not sure if it belongs here, but I thought I should mention it. Apparently Tom Hicks can't sell the Rangers without satisfying his creditors. So that should prevent them from adding expensive players. So that's one less team we can deal guys like Lilly to.

http://startelegramsports.typepad.com/foul_territory/2010/06/judge-deals-apparent-setback-to-rangers-hope-for-quick-sale.html

Honestly I don't mind this, that means if we deal someone(Lilly, probably) to them we can just pay most/all of their salary and demand a better return in terms of players. But being realistic, Ted Lilly and the rest of his salary for Robbie Ross and one or two lesser guys, let's do it.

dyceman
06-23-2010, 06:59 AM
Lilly I think is a pretty good bet to offer arbitration to unless things change soon. Lee on the other hand would have to go ******* in the second half and maybe even then it wouldn't for sure be safe.

JB, I'm not sure that even if we resigned Lee for a reduced rate for another 2 yrs, that any of us could take waiting for him to catch fire. It just wears on my patience, and it seems it is taking him longer and longer each yr to get it going.

Jilly Bohnson
06-23-2010, 09:05 AM
JB, I'm not sure that even if we resigned Lee for a reduced rate for another 2 yrs, that any of us could take waiting for him to catch fire. It just wears on my patience, and it seems it is taking him longer and longer each yr to get it going.

Yeah I wouldn't keep him around. He's too good to only get a 1 year deal and not good enough that I would want to keep him around for more than just next year.

Cubs420
06-28-2010, 02:52 AM
would we get a first round pick if Lee just left for free agency? If so we might as well just wait.. That first round compensation pick would probably have more upside then the kind of prospect we can get for Lee at the moment.

Jilly Bohnson
06-28-2010, 03:09 AM
would we get a first round pick if Lee just left for free agency? If so we might as well just wait.. That first round compensation pick would probably have more upside then the kind of prospect we can get for Lee at the moment.

The way it works is that if a guys is a type A free agent and you offer arbitration to him, and he declines, then you get that team's first round pick plus another pick in the sandwich round.

However, since more and more emphasis is being placed on the draft teams are much less likely to sign a guy like that, which makes the players much more likely to accept arbitration if it's offered.

WOwolfOL
06-28-2010, 03:45 AM
FWIW the new Elias ratings are out. Lee just missed Type A by like half a point. Id imagine if his recent tear continues hed get to A.
Lilly is Type A by a good bit though.

Also the numbers are on ************** and its exclusive to them.

What is this recent tear? If you're talking about post-june 16th, he's hitting 295 with 5 XBH, 3 walks. I don't think tear is the right word, although it does produce a 550 SLG, it's just not something I would call a tear.

thornga2
06-28-2010, 10:16 AM
The Cubs might be better off if Lee is a type B. If he is a type A, he will definitely accept Arb because he will know that people will be unlikely to sign him. However, as a type B the other team would not lose a pick, but the Cubs would still receive a sandwich selection. They are better off dealing him if they can find a match that Lee agrees to.

poodski
06-28-2010, 10:41 AM
If he makes it to a B, then he has been terrible and no way someone will offer him what he would get in arbitration.

Heyyo1900
06-28-2010, 11:37 AM
Are there any players out there that have horrible contracts that we can switch with Z? It seems like a lot of the contracts are becoming more and more manageable. Naturally I think of Zito, but he's pitched pretty well the past couple of years. I'm hoping we can find another Carlos Silva out there.

flips333
06-28-2010, 12:45 PM
Are there any players out there that have horrible contracts that we can switch with Z? It seems like a lot of the contracts are becoming more and more manageable. Naturally I think of Zito, but he's pitched pretty well the past couple of years. I'm hoping we can find another Carlos Silva out there.

Oli Perez?

BcEuAbRsS
06-28-2010, 02:52 PM
Oli Perez?

God I hope not!

BigRoy
06-28-2010, 05:32 PM
I hope Boston calls about Theriot, Font, or Baker. They say Pedroia will be out 6 weeks

ggross
06-28-2010, 05:53 PM
Are there any players out there that have horrible contracts that we can switch with Z? It seems like a lot of the contracts are becoming more and more manageable. Naturally I think of Zito, but he's pitched pretty well the past couple of years. I'm hoping we can find another Carlos Silva out there.

Bradley

flips333
06-28-2010, 06:28 PM
Bradley

It's a shame we can't trade him for Fukudome

Matchstckman
06-28-2010, 06:35 PM
I hope Boston calls about Theriot, Font, or Baker. They say Pedroia will be out 6 weeks

They did already acquire Eric Patterson so they probably won't even need or use Pedroia once he's healthy again.

beerman28
06-28-2010, 07:07 PM
we need to get in on this cliff lee bidness...

Jilly Bohnson
06-28-2010, 07:14 PM
So it sounds like the Cards are in on the Cliff Lee sweepstakes. I hope they get him and have to sell off their entire farm minus the 2010 draftees.

Also, as a bonus, it would leave Lilly as the second best pitcher on the market, maybe the best when you consider how much money Oswalt is owed.

Matchstckman
06-28-2010, 07:19 PM
So it sounds like the Cards are in on the Cliff Lee sweepstakes. I hope they get him and have to sell off their entire farm minus the 2010 draftees.

Also, as a bonus, it would leave Lilly as the second best pitcher on the market, maybe the best when you consider how much money Oswalt is owed.

Yeah the quicker Lee gets moved the better.

StrandedCub
06-28-2010, 07:22 PM
Trade Z for Matt Kemp :rolleyes: ... lol I wish. A lot of turmoil over there with Kemp though.

Jilly Bohnson
06-28-2010, 07:24 PM
Trade Z for Matt Kemp :rolleyes: ... lol I wish. A lot of turmoil over there with Kemp though.

Oh my god if we bought low on Kemp I would build a statue in Hendry's honor.

StrandedCub
06-28-2010, 07:24 PM
So it sounds like the Cards are in on the Cliff Lee sweepstakes. I hope they get him and have to sell off their entire farm minus the 2010 draftees.

Also, as a bonus, it would leave Lilly as the second best pitcher on the market, maybe the best when you consider how much money Oswalt is owed.

What would they have left to give up? I would assume Shelby Miller would be a must. Unlike Holliday, there is no way in hell they resign Lee after the season.

Matchstckman
06-28-2010, 07:25 PM
Throw in Colvin with his value at his highest and boom, it's done.

gocubs2118
06-28-2010, 07:27 PM
I'm just throwing this out there but what about a Zambrano for Burnett swap?

Jilly Bohnson
06-28-2010, 07:28 PM
What would they have left to give up? I would assume Shelby Miller would be a must. Unlike Holliday, there is no way in hell they resign Lee after the season.

Yeah it'd be Miller probably. He's their only blue chipper I can think of.

Jilly Bohnson
06-28-2010, 07:30 PM
I'm just throwing this out there but what about a Zambrano for Burnett swap?

Yankees better throw in some money. Although Burnett in the NL Central could work out very well.

StrandedCub
06-28-2010, 07:34 PM
I'm just throwing this out there but what about a Zambrano for Burnett swap?

I'd definitely give it a shot. Burnett could look pretty good back in the NL.

toovey107
06-28-2010, 08:13 PM
What's going on with Kemp?

Ah I would love me some.

Mell413
06-28-2010, 08:16 PM
What's going on with Kemp?

Ah I would love me some.

He sucks now. I think they have complained about his defense and its awful this year.

toovey107
06-28-2010, 08:19 PM
He sucks now. I think they have complained about his defense and its awful this year.
O yeah, I noticed his perpetual downfall, I thought there was maybe some kind of non baseball issue.

BigRoy
06-28-2010, 09:18 PM
Is there any way we could do a Napoli for Lee swap with maybe us tossing in a spec and/or some money?

Captain Obvious
06-29-2010, 12:58 AM
So it sounds like the Cards are in on the Cliff Lee sweepstakes. I hope they get him and have to sell off their entire farm minus the 2010 draftees.

Also, as a bonus, it would leave Lilly as the second best pitcher on the market, maybe the best when you consider how much money Oswalt is owed.

Didn't they already do that last year... twice?

StrandedCub
06-29-2010, 01:25 AM
What's going on with Kemp?

Ah I would love me some.

I think he is the worst rated CF in the game right now according to UZR. I'm too lazy to look it up but I could have swore I heard that earlier. Also, he has been criticized for his baserunning among other things.

Nothing really all that serious yet.

Jilly Bohnson
06-29-2010, 03:57 AM
Didn't they already do that last year... twice?

At the beginning of last year they had a pretty strong farm, but they graduated Rasmus to the majors, Jaime Garcia got hurt, and they traded everyone else off in the Derosa/Holliday deals. But now they're starting to get a little farm back, so I wouldn't mind them getting Lee just to re-destroy the farm minus 2010 guys.

Captain Obvious
06-29-2010, 04:19 PM
The Philadelphia Phillies placed second baseman Chase Utley and third baseman Placido Polanco on the disabled list Tuesday.

-ESPN

Possible Theriot suitors?

Jilly Bohnson
06-29-2010, 04:25 PM
-ESPN

Possible Theriot suitors?

Also a team that could use relief help.

1908_Cubs
06-29-2010, 04:26 PM
Also a team that could use relief help.

Theriot and Grabow for Halladay.

Get 'er done Jim?

RedHeadsRule
06-29-2010, 04:45 PM
So it sounds like the Cards are in on the Cliff Lee sweepstakes. I hope they get him and have to sell off their entire farm minus the 2010 draftees.

Also, as a bonus, it would leave Lilly as the second best pitcher on the market, maybe the best when you consider how much money Oswalt is owed.

It would really be nice if the Cards could sell their farm and make a big move in a year that we aren't going to the playoffs anyway.

But I could definitely understand from the Cards' perspective why they'd want to do that. Welcome to the World Series if they get him. I don't think any NL team can beat Carpenter, Wainwright, and Lee...and maybe not even the Yankees.

MrPoon
06-29-2010, 05:07 PM
Theriot and Grabow for Halladay.

Get 'er done Jim?



the potential RoS (return on scrappiness) of this deal just doesnt sit well with me

Yagyu+
06-29-2010, 07:39 PM
Nothing to stand by, but Fontenot's name has been mentioned in conjunction with the Red Sox, Phillies, and Angels.

Jilly Bohnson
06-29-2010, 07:54 PM
Nothing to stand by, but Fontenot's name has been mentioned in conjunction with the Red Sox, Phillies, and Angels.

He'd make a lot of sense for any of those teams, as would Theriot.

Yagyu+
06-29-2010, 07:56 PM
He'd make a lot of sense for any of those teams, as would Theriot.

Any of our three second basemen would.

As would any of the three on my fantasy squad:

Pedroia DL
Roberts DL
Utley DL

BigRoy
06-29-2010, 09:30 PM
Any of our three second basemen would.

As would any of the three on my fantasy squad:

Pedroia DL
Roberts DL
Utley DL

I have Beltran, Ellsbury, V-Mart, Heyward, and Utley :facepalm:

beerman28
06-29-2010, 09:34 PM
Z for Cliff Lee... make it happen

Yagyu+
06-29-2010, 10:51 PM
I have Beltran, Ellsbury, V-Mart, Heyward, and Utley :facepalm:

I've got Beltran too.

Good news is that he'll be back by July 15th at the latest.

WolvesJagsOs
06-30-2010, 01:47 AM
I really hope we do trade Big Z tho. He is starting to go downhill rapidly.

gocubs2118
06-30-2010, 01:58 AM
Do you really have a picture of Wesley Johnson as your avatar? Ugh.

1908_Cubs
06-30-2010, 02:56 AM
Do you really have a picture of Wesley Johnson as your avatar? Ugh.

Why both of you don't have an avatar consisting of John Wall, I'm not sure.

I hate the NBA but John Wall is a boss. Important to note, he's not the Boss. But that's because despite his awesomeness at life, he cannot perform Born to Run better than Springsteen.

Jilly Bohnson
06-30-2010, 04:03 AM
I've got Beltran too.

Good news is that he'll be back by July 15th at the latest.

Beltran's already got 5 games of minor league rehab in, I'd bet we see him next week.

Shammyguy3
06-30-2010, 07:53 AM
Only two more weeks until we'll be able to send off some of our guys. Hopefully Byrd, Lilly, Silva, Fukudome, Theriot, and Fontenot (and Pinellia) are all traded so we can see what we have with our younger guys.

flips333
06-30-2010, 09:22 AM
Any chance we take a guy with value... say Lilly, and package him with someone overpriced, say Zambrano, or Fukudome and trade them for nothing. Essentially Take a guy worth something, and take our salary?

behindmydesk
06-30-2010, 11:05 AM
Any chance we take a guy with value... say Lilly, and package him with someone overpriced, say Zambrano, or Fukudome and trade them for nothing. Essentially Take a guy worth something, and take our salary?

I was thinking of that, but man that's so much money, and who really needs 2 pitchers.

Also most deals anymore even for guys like Lilly have the selling club sending some money anyway. Heck Toronto sent money in the Roy deal.

Kirel
06-30-2010, 11:59 AM
Any chance we take a guy with value... say Lilly, and package him with someone overpriced, say Zambrano, or Fukudome and trade them for nothing. Essentially Take a guy worth something, and take our salary?
Frankly, value wise that probably costs the Cubs too much. Fukudome and Zambrano are overpaid, but they do provide some value. Trading a major trade piece just to be rid of them is a really bad deal for the Cubs. The money Saved won't pay for the value lost.

poodski
06-30-2010, 12:53 PM
Yankees better throw in some money. Although Burnett in the NL Central could work out very well.

I would think an even swap would be fair, IMO.

Jilly Bohnson
06-30-2010, 12:58 PM
I would think an even swap would be fair, IMO.

Burnett's got 58ish million left on his deal, Z has a little over 40. I know Z's having a rough year but I would not make the deal unless the Yankees closed that monetary gap some.

And Burnett's not having as rough a year as Z, but he's 4 years older so he's less likely to rebound. I want no part of paying 36 year old AJ Burnett 16.5 million.

Str1fe5
06-30-2010, 01:15 PM
It would really be nice if the Cards could sell their farm and make a big move in a year that we aren't going to the playoffs anyway.

But I could definitely understand from the Cards' perspective why they'd want to do that. Welcome to the World Series if they get him. I don't think any NL team can beat Carpenter, Wainwright, and Lee...and maybe not even the Yankees.

I still like the Phillies if they are healthy. Lee is definitely better than any 3 starter the Phillies have, but the Phils still have Halladay and Hamels, and they have a much more well rounded offense and considerably better defense. I'd guess the BP's are probably a wash.

poodski
06-30-2010, 01:20 PM
Burnett's got 58ish million left on his deal, Z has a little over 40. I know Z's having a rough year but I would not make the deal unless the Yankees closed that monetary gap some.

And Burnett's not having as rough a year as Z, but he's 4 years older so he's less likely to rebound. I want no part of paying 36 year old AJ Burnett 16.5 million.

Ah yeah I didnt think about the years, I just looked at the per year part of it.

I wouldnt think much more than 6 or 7 million would come back. Maybe cover half of Burnett's final year.

Honestly I want no part of either one, but I think a change of scenery would do both good. Burnett coming to the NL Central would be phenom if he can stay healthy.

Jilly Bohnson
06-30-2010, 01:27 PM
Ah yeah I didnt think about the years, I just looked at the per year part of it.

I wouldnt think much more than 6 or 7 million would come back. Maybe cover half of Burnett's final year.

Honestly I want no part of either one, but I think a change of scenery would do both good. Burnett coming to the NL Central would be phenom if he can stay healthy.

Oh yeah, Burnett in the NL Central would look damn good, but he's four years older and signed on for an extra year, so I'd demand some money. Not a ton, but yeah something in that 6-8 million range.

BDawk4Prez
06-30-2010, 01:33 PM
Oh yeah, Burnett in the NL Central would look damn good, but he's four years older and signed on for an extra year, so I'd demand some money. Not a ton, but yeah something in that 6-8 million range.

Sorry I don't follow others too in depth at times, but why is he having so many problems in NY?

Jilly Bohnson
06-30-2010, 01:38 PM
Sorry I don't follow others too in depth at times, but why is he having so many problems in NY?

He's just not pitching up to his contract. He had a little spat with Jorge Posada but I don't think he's got nearly the off the field baggage of Zambrano though.

Captain Obvious
06-30-2010, 02:17 PM
Oh yeah, Burnett in the NL Central would look damn good, but he's four years older and signed on for an extra year, so I'd demand some money. Not a ton, but yeah something in that 6-8 million range.

Plus, Burnett with Rothschild, I feel like he could go back to being dominant.

Yagyu+
06-30-2010, 03:20 PM
Beltran's already got 5 games of minor league rehab in, I'd bet we see him next week.

Excellent. Now all I have to do is sort out my outfield of Cuddyer, Boesch, Upton, Span, Granderson, Byrd, and Choo. I don't know if Beltran can top the production I've been getting.

Yagyu+
06-30-2010, 03:22 PM
With Zumaya down how would people feel about Marmol plus whoever to Detroit?

I Doubt Hendry moves Marmol, but it'd be nice to trade our team for Cabrera.

Jilly Bohnson
06-30-2010, 03:26 PM
Excellent. Now all I have to do is sort out my outfield of Cuddyer, Boesch, Upton, Span, Granderson, Byrd, and Choo. I don't know if Beltran can top the production I've been getting.

Yeah, I'm giving him a week back in the majorss before I put him in the lineup.

poodski
06-30-2010, 03:41 PM
With Zumaya down how would people feel about Marmol plus whoever to Detroit?

I Doubt Hendry moves Marmol, but it'd be nice to trade our team for Cabrera.

Something like Theriot and Marmol for Scott Sizemore and Jacob Turner.

Probably asking too much though.

Kirel
06-30-2010, 03:57 PM
Something like Theriot and Marmol for Scott Sizemore and Jacob Turner.

Probably asking too much though.
Haha, man would that be a terrific trade, but Turner isn't gonna happen.

I still think Sizemore is possible, something like Sizemore and Bryan Villareal or Melvin Mercedes might be reasonable, if a bit lower than one would hope for Marmol.

windycityD
06-30-2010, 11:39 PM
With Zumaya down how would people feel about Marmol plus whoever to Detroit?

I Doubt Hendry moves Marmol, but it'd be nice to trade our team for Cabrera.

IMO, Detroit will deal for Dotel.

Our 2011 bull pen with Marmol would be a big strength. You're talking about Jackson being added to that mix in terms of new arms, replacing Cashner. Assuming Grabow is really not this bad (yeah, a stretch I know), we're likely fine from the left side with he and Marshall- or Gaub or Russell if we could somehow pull an Erin Miles with Grabow by dealing him and eating respectable payroll.

Matchstckman
07-01-2010, 02:36 PM
Utley is out for 4-6 weeks. Theriot for Domonic Brown.

GO!

Ron!n
07-02-2010, 12:29 PM
We should sign Mark Prior. Season is lost and we might as well get something fun to look at.

Jilly Bohnson
07-02-2010, 05:09 PM
So you know I've said there's no reason to get rid of Hendry without a good replacement lined up? Well that replacement just got fired last night. Josh Byrnes let's go go go

Mell413
07-02-2010, 05:28 PM
So you know I've said there's no reason to get rid of Hendry without a good replacement lined up? Well that replacement just got fired last night. Josh Byrnes let's go go go

I thought about that last night. However I was reading the comments on the Fangraphs article and someone said a lot of their success predates Byrnes. I've heard some good things about him though. He is younger so he's probably more familiar with advanced stats.

Jilly Bohnson
07-02-2010, 06:28 PM
I thought about that last night. However I was reading the comments on the Fangraphs article and someone said a lot of their success predates Byrnes. I've heard some good things about him though. He is younger so he's probably more familiar with advanced stats.

Yeah he's stat-y I believe. And while some of the stuff was before his time, I'm pretty sure he was responsible for the Haren trade and has done a number of pretty good moves. Also, let's see how he does with another 70-80 million a year to work with. I'd imagine that much better.

Mell413
07-02-2010, 09:08 PM
Yeah he's stat-y I believe. And while some of the stuff was before his time, I'm pretty sure he was responsible for the Haren trade and has done a number of pretty good moves. Also, let's see how he does with another 70-80 million a year to work with. I'd imagine that much better.

He was responsible for the Haren deal. They did give up a lot to get him though and don't have much to show for it. Him hiring a manager with no experience was probably not the best idea either. He's also only had two winning seasons in his tenure. The farm system is not in the best shape either.Not saying the farm system is all on him, but it is happening on his watch. He has made some good moves like the Kelly Johnson deal and I would have made the Dunn deal. I'm not saying he would not be an upgrade over Hendry, but based on what has happened so far I can't say for sure that he is.

ReJo
07-02-2010, 09:30 PM
I don't know Byrnes has been pretty awful these last few years. Giving Eric Byrnes $30 million dollars, trading away Carlos Quentin, worsening the bullpen by signing pitchers like Howry and Heilman, overpaying for rent a player Adam Dunn and trading for Edwin Jackson etc.
Even with a limited payroll those are awful moves

Captain Obvious
07-03-2010, 11:22 PM
This is just a baseball writer talking here, but what if the Giants considered dealing Aaron Rowand to the Cubs for pitcher Carlos Zambrano in one whale of a change-of-scenery trade?

I have no evidence that such a deal has been discussed, but I think it has to be percolating in the mind of somebody in one of the two front offices.

And I will say this: When I jokingly suggested such a deal to a muckety-muck from one of the two teams, I did not get laughter in return, but this question: "What's the money look like?"

That could be the biggest impediment to such a deal. Zambrano is still owed about $45 million of the five-year, $91.5 million deal he signed before the 2008 season, while the Giants owe Rowand about $30 million from his five-year, $60 million deal. I imagine the Giants would want the Cubs to throw in half the difference, $7.5 million, to equalize the money, and they might not want to do it.

But do they have a choice? Zambrano is on the restricted list at least through the All-Star break after his latest blowup, in which he ranted in the dugout and went nose-to-nose with Derrek Lee. The Cubs might not have any choice except to deal Zambrano, who has burned one too many bridge in Chicago.

Rowand, in turn, might thrive more in a better hitters' park in a city where he won a World Series ring with the White Sox in 2005.

The Cubs would relieve themselves of a big headache. The Giants would add another good arm to their rotation, putting them in a better position to trade a starter for a bat.

Just sayin'.

Link (http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/giants/detail?blogid=22&entry_id=67176)

I don't think it makes sense from the Cubs POV, because we already have 4 OFers who should be starting.

toovey107
07-04-2010, 12:01 AM
I absolutely loathe Aaron Rowand. Trade makes no sense.

Captain Obvious
07-04-2010, 03:45 AM
FWIW, Dave Cameron has Byrd and Soto representing us in the All-Star game.

Doogolas
07-04-2010, 04:32 AM
FWIW, Dave Cameron has Byrd and Soto representing us in the All-Star game.

Even though he deserves it Soto won't make it.

Yagyu+
07-04-2010, 02:04 PM
I'll pass on Rowand. Older player, showing signs of decline. Complete opposite of what we should be looking for in a trade.

CjGrandprix
07-05-2010, 01:01 AM
How about we trade Jim Hendry for a bucket of baseballs.

Tehjosha
07-05-2010, 01:11 AM
How about we trade Jim Hendry for a bucket of baseballs.

Can we please ****ing get off of Jim Hendry? This cluster**** of a season is not the fault of him. Sure, he has given out some contracts that have not been the best, but he did what he had to do to put together a team that could compete for a division title every season.

Might as well blame him for the lag problem on PSD as well.

Go away.

BigRoy
07-05-2010, 03:49 PM
I see us doing a multi team trade, us trading Z and Riot, netting us Brian Roberts and Jake Peavy. (joke)

WolvesJagsOs
07-05-2010, 03:57 PM
lol.

Shammyguy3
07-05-2010, 06:08 PM
I see us doing a multi team trade, us trading Z and Riot, netting us Brian Roberts and Jake Peavy. (joke)

This is not a joking manner :sad2:

ReJo
07-05-2010, 09:36 PM
Gally got DFA'd by the Padres. I wouldn't mind getting him back he's still only 24 and has loads of potential

cowboydoc45
07-05-2010, 09:39 PM
Gally got DFA'd by the Padres. I wouldn't mind getting him back he's still only 24 and has loads of potential

get him workng with Rothschild again... might be worth it...

CubbieSteve
07-05-2010, 10:04 PM
Gally got DFA'd by the Padres. I wouldn't mind getting him back he's still only 24 and has loads of potential

I'd do it for sure.

Jilly Bohnson
07-06-2010, 03:41 AM
So allegedly the Twins have offered Aaron Hicks and Wilson Ramos for Cliff Lee. Which is a massive overpay if true. Although the Twins are very nearly in benefit of the doubt status so we'll see.

ReJo
07-06-2010, 10:52 AM
Gammons said something about the Cubs possibly trading Lilly and then signing him as a free agent this offseason. That would be pretty cool. Get some nice prospects and only lose him for a few months of meaningless games.

cowboydoc45
07-06-2010, 10:59 AM
Gammons said something about the Cubs possibly trading Lilly and then signing him as a free agent this offseason. That would be pretty cool. Get some nice prospects and only lose him for a few months of meaningless games.

:laugh2: that would be awesome...

gocubs2118
07-06-2010, 11:13 AM
Gammons said something about the Cubs possibly trading Lilly and then signing him as a free agent this offseason. That would be pretty cool. Get some nice prospects and only lose him for a few months of meaningless games.

Bruce Levine said something similar last week. As long as the team who we trade him to doesn't offer him arbitration, I would love to have him back.

Jilly Bohnson
07-06-2010, 11:17 AM
Ewww, I love Teddy but signing him past this year is a bad bad idea. He's already showing signs of decline, no need to commit to him going forward. We need to just say thanks a million and move on.

Mell413
07-06-2010, 11:23 AM
Yeah I'd rather let Lilly go. He's not pitching well as it is now. He should have been traded weeks ago honestly.

gocubs2118
07-06-2010, 11:38 AM
Not pitching as well? He's had 3 bad starts all year long. Those starts have been awful though but its not as if he's giving up 5 runs every start.

Jilly Bohnson
07-06-2010, 11:41 AM
Not pitching as well? He's had 3 bad starts all year long. Those starts have been awful though but its not as if he's giving up 5 runs every start.

Strikeouts are down. Homers are up. Velocity's down. He's gonna be 35. Gotta let him go.

Mell413
07-06-2010, 11:43 AM
To add to what Jilly said we have have guys who could probably put up the same numbers Lilly is now for less cost.

ABTY7
07-06-2010, 01:00 PM
-Lilly, Fukudome and cash for 2011 to the Red Sox for prospects
-Theriot to the Tigers for prospects
-DLee to the Angels for prospects


...god I hate my life...

BDawk4Prez
07-06-2010, 01:25 PM
A team without Ted Lilly is somewhat depressing.

BigRoy
07-06-2010, 04:58 PM
I'd like to see the cubs go after V-mart in the off season to primarily play 1st base and then he could back up catch, also i think Pena for a year or two at Wrigley would be interesting

BcEuAbRsS
07-06-2010, 07:42 PM
I'd like to see the cubs go after V-mart in the off season to primarily play 1st base and then he could back up catch, also i think Pena for a year or two at Wrigley would be interesting

V-Mart will be 31 and will prolly be asking for a 4 yr deal... Pena whom is having a crap yr may be looking for a one yr deal to help his value for the following yr...

Id rather take Pena for one yr and make a move for Fielder/Agon/Pujols...

BDawk4Prez
07-06-2010, 09:15 PM
V-Mart will be 31 and will prolly be asking for a 4 yr deal... Pena whom is having a crap yr may be looking for a one yr deal to help his value for the following yr...

Id rather take Pena for one yr and make a move for Fielder/Agon/Pujols...

I will bet both testicles that the Cubs have very little chance to land Albert, ever.

Matchstckman
07-06-2010, 10:21 PM
Peavy just got injured

I think we can all agree that this is probably a precursor to Peavy

BDawk4Prez
07-06-2010, 10:26 PM
Peavy just got injured

I think we can all agree that this is probably a precursor to Peavy

What kind of baseball trades do you make?

BcEuAbRsS
07-07-2010, 04:39 AM
I will bet both testicles that the Cubs have very little chance to land Albert, ever.

You cant bet that there is LITTLE chance! Cause if it still happens then you wont necessarily lose those testicals... You could still be like, look, it was still a little chance but it happened...

U sir, are an unfair gambler!

BDawk4Prez
07-07-2010, 10:00 AM
You cant bet that there is LITTLE chance! Cause if it still happens then you wont necessarily lose those testicals... You could still be like, look, it was still a little chance but it happened...

U sir, are an unfair gambler!

Regardless, won't happen.

SenatorMendoza
07-07-2010, 02:23 PM
Just a thought. I know that Philly is trying to open up a spot for Dominic Brown in the OF, and Ibanez is underacheiving and making 11.5 million this year and next. I can't help but think this makes some sense. Zambrano makes almost $18 million for 10, 11, and 12 so obviously the Cubs would need to include some money.

I was thinking about Zambrano, and everyone wants him out of Chicago, but the more I thought about it I realized that he has significant value to other teams. If he was a free agent he'd likely be getting something in the neighborhood of a 3 year 14-15 million dollar deal with some team. But would a trade like Zambrano and Fontenot for Ibanez with the Cubs picking up a chunk of Zambrano's 2012 salary make sense.

Ibanez has played 1B before (not since 2005), but he's a lefty who could take 1B over for Lee. Assuming Lee is moved as well. It would put the cubs in line to take a look at the 2011 1B free agent crop as well.

cowboydoc45
07-07-2010, 02:48 PM
Just a thought. I know that Philly is trying to open up a spot for Dominic Brown in the OF, and Ibanez is underacheiving and making 11.5 million this year and next. I can't help but think this makes some sense. Zambrano makes almost $18 million for 10, 11, and 12 so obviously the Cubs would need to include some money.

I was thinking about Zambrano, and everyone wants him out of Chicago, but the more I thought about it I realized that he has significant value to other teams. If he was a free agent he'd likely be getting something in the neighborhood of a 3 year 14-15 million dollar deal with some team. But would a trade like Zambrano and Fontenot for Ibanez with the Cubs picking up a chunk of Zambrano's 2012 salary make sense.

Ibanez has played 1B before (not since 2005), but he's a lefty who could take 1B over for Lee. Assuming Lee is moved as well. It would put the cubs in line to take a look at the 2011 1B free agent crop as well.

Why do People still think that trading for an OF makes sense, especially an overpaid, underproducing one? Yes, it would move Zambrano, but then you mention trading Zambrano, plus cash, plus another valuable piece (Fontenot) for said overpaid/underperforming OF because he could "possibly" fill in for Lee (and by your own admission, he hasn't played 1b since before 2005, which is over 5 years) when we have other people on the team that could do the same thing... Baker, Nady, Hoffpauir could be called up for the rest of the season (oh, and Lee could fill in for Lee... he hasn't been traded yet, and you don't trade him to get a guy like Ibanez playing time at a position he hasn't played in over 5 years... )

Mell413
07-07-2010, 02:51 PM
I wouldn't trade Z for Ibanez. I could see Fukudome getting traded for Ibanez though. I'm not saying I would like the trade, but if the Cubs are looking to deal Fukudome they would have to take a bad contract back most likely. Ibanez could play first base. Then it give Colvin the right field job full time. That's assuming they still have Byrd occupying center.

dyceman
07-07-2010, 03:42 PM
Saw enuff of Ibanez here in Seattle..ok stick no arm. Bad trade would rather get prosepcts than to have him in the outfield.

Jilly Bohnson
07-07-2010, 04:23 PM
Just a thought. I know that Philly is trying to open up a spot for Dominic Brown in the OF, and Ibanez is underacheiving and making 11.5 million this year and next. I can't help but think this makes some sense. Zambrano makes almost $18 million for 10, 11, and 12 so obviously the Cubs would need to include some money.

I was thinking about Zambrano, and everyone wants him out of Chicago, but the more I thought about it I realized that he has significant value to other teams. If he was a free agent he'd likely be getting something in the neighborhood of a 3 year 14-15 million dollar deal with some team. But would a trade like Zambrano and Fontenot for Ibanez with the Cubs picking up a chunk of Zambrano's 2012 salary make sense.

Ibanez has played 1B before (not since 2005), but he's a lefty who could take 1B over for Lee. Assuming Lee is moved as well. It would put the cubs in line to take a look at the 2011 1B free agent crop as well.

I actually like this, as long as we're not sending a lot of money over with Zambrano.

1908_Cubs
07-07-2010, 04:27 PM
I actually like this, as long as we're not sending a lot of money over with Zambrano.

With Werth hitting FA next season, I think they'll much rather keep Ibanez, make Werth type-A, pick up the draft picks, promote Brown, and let Ibanez walk the next season.

I don't think it's an option.

Jilly Bohnson
07-07-2010, 04:33 PM
With Werth hitting FA next season, I think they'll much rather keep Ibanez, make Werth type-A, pick up the draft picks, promote Brown, and let Ibanez walk the next season.

I don't think it's an option.

Yeah probably not, but if it is I'd give it serious thought.

Kirel
07-07-2010, 04:43 PM
I actually like this, as long as we're not sending a lot of money over with Zambrano.
Why exactly? What benefit does the team have in trading two useful players for one useful, but not exactly long term player? May as well just play Fontenot at 1B rather than paying Ibanez that contract just to take Zambrano off our hands.

Why bother with patchwork?

BigRoy
07-07-2010, 05:00 PM
It was reported that the Rangers looking for pitching but no money to spend, is there any possibility that Gorzo or Wells could be traded to them? And since they have cheaper contracts, they would them prob fetch us some better prospects?

Jilly Bohnson
07-07-2010, 05:01 PM
Why exactly? What benefit does the team have in trading two useful players for one useful, but not exactly long term player? May as well just play Fontenot at 1B rather than paying Ibanez that contract just to take Zambrano off our hands.

Why bother with patchwork?

I didn't read the whole thing(specifically Fontenot being included), I just saw Ibanez for Zambrano and Ibanez at 1b, so my bad on missing that. But basically, I think Ibanez is probably about an average 1b. And he's owed a little over 17 million for the rest of his contract. If he's an average player, IE a 2-2.5 win guy, over the next year and a half even at just 2 wins then at 4.5 million per win he's worth about 13-14 million. That's -3 million of surplus value.

Zambrano on the other hand, is owed 45 million over the next two and a half years. Let's say he's a 3-3.5 win guy(2.5-3 for his pitching, another half a win for his bat/glove). Even if he's a 3.5 win guy over 2.5 years, that's about 39.5 million in value. So his surplus value is -5.5 million. So even with a more generous Z projection and conservative Ibanez projection Ibanez has more value.

So I think with Fontenot excluded it's a good deal. Now Ibanez is getting up there, but I think that's kind of offset by Z's risk of injury. Also, we'd be out from the Ibanez contract after 2011, instead of having to wait for 2012 to be out from Z's. I think that's nice, especially since next year's more likely a transition year where we might compete while 2012 is when we'll be more likely to be a legit very good team again.

Jilly Bohnson
07-07-2010, 05:04 PM
It was reported that the Rangers looking for pitching but no money to spend, is there any possibility that Gorzo or Wells could be traded to them? And since they have cheaper contracts, they would them prob fetch us some better prospects?

I'd probably look more towards sending them Silva and covering most of his contract. I personally want Wells and Gorzo around for a while as good cheap pitchers to build around.

Mell413
07-07-2010, 08:10 PM
I know his name was mentioned earlier, but the Pirates picked up Sean Gallagher.

Matchstckman
07-08-2010, 02:14 AM
So we're buyers now right?

Randall Simon
07-08-2010, 10:43 AM
So we're buyers now right?

...said Jim Hendry :facepalm:

ReJo
07-08-2010, 08:53 PM
Carlos Delgado is looking to make a comeback.
I don't know what type of interest there will be around the league but I wouldn't be opposed to giving him a minor league contract and seeing what he could do in Iowa.
Maybe give him an extended look at first base if Lee is traded. We're gonna need a 1 year stopgap next year before going after one of the big boys in 2012.

The Stick
07-08-2010, 10:06 PM
How long are the Cubs going to let Vitters struggle in AA? Would it be better for him to go back to Daytona and have some success? It just seems to me that letting a young player who is overmatched and from what I've heard a pretty quiet kid, continue to struggle isn't helping his development at all. Just wanted to get some different opinions on this.

cowboydoc45
07-09-2010, 08:31 AM
Didn't want to start a new thread with this, but it sounded kind of interesting.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/cubs/ct-spt-0709-around-town--20100708,0,4075828.column

Looks like what everyone here has been saying for a while is coming true, but I have to wonder which salaries they will be able to dump...

Jilly Bohnson
07-09-2010, 11:44 AM
Lee going to the Yankees is great news for us. Absolutely best case scenario IMO. This means all the guys that like Lilly are going to have to step it up, and also means we're more likely to get a great offer for Silva and move him. I hate the move because I hate the Yankees, but it helps us.

semperfi
07-09-2010, 12:29 PM
Lee going to the Yankees is great news for us. Absolutely best case scenario IMO. This means all the guys that like Lilly are going to have to step it up, and also means we're more likely to get a great offer for Silva and move him. I hate the move because I hate the Yankees, but it helps us.

Is it confirmed? I've only read that the Yanks have submitted their FINAL offer to the M's.

BDawk4Prez
07-09-2010, 12:42 PM
Carlos Delgado is looking to make a comeback.
I don't know what type of interest there will be around the league but I wouldn't be opposed to giving him a minor league contract and seeing what he could do in Iowa.
Maybe give him an extended look at first base if Lee is traded. We're gonna need a 1 year stopgap next year before going after one of the big boys in 2012.

I still thought Delgado was playing somewhere. :)

mg420
07-09-2010, 01:02 PM
Is it confirmed? I've only read that the Yanks have submitted their FINAL offer to the M's.

http://sports.espn.go.com/new-york/mlb/news/story?id=5366254

BDawk4Prez
07-09-2010, 01:11 PM
Really, the Yankees needed more pitching?

hrubes20
07-09-2010, 01:16 PM
Is it confirmed? I've only read that the Yanks have submitted their FINAL offer to the M's.

Every report has that deal as "Imminent." Jesus Montero/David Adams/PTBNL for Cliff Lee.

Most of the speculation is that the Mets are going to pursue Ted Lilly pretty hard. I would imagine that we could nab one of their top 10 prospects (lower half), plus another in the 20ish range at least. Maybe a Reese Havens and Eduardo Aldama? Although they may not want to give up their supposed 2B of the future.

mg420
07-09-2010, 01:18 PM
Every report has that deal as "Imminent." Jesus Montero/David Adams/PTBNL for Cliff Lee.

Most of the speculation is that the Mets are going to pursue Ted Lilly pretty hard. I would imagine that we could nab one of their top 10 prospects (lower half), plus another in the 20ish range at least. Maybe a Reese Havens and Eduardo Aldama? Although they may not want to give up their supposed 2B of the future.

"Joel Sherman of the New York Post reports that the Mets will now "turn strongly" to acquiring Ted Lilly from the Cubs."
Source: Joel Sherman on Twitter

ReJo
07-09-2010, 01:47 PM
"Joel Sherman of the New York Post reports that the Mets will now "turn strongly" to acquiring Ted Lilly from the Cubs."
Source: Joel Sherman on Twitter

The Mets have some nice prospects.

ChiTownBearCub
07-09-2010, 02:33 PM
Just read Buster Olney post this on his twitter:

Buster_ESPN
Cubs are overseeing a search for Kosuke Fukudome deal, a way to move the outfielder and the $20 m. still owed to him.

Grifter
07-09-2010, 03:00 PM
Rick Porcello is on the block. (http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/MLB-latest-news-from-July-070110) I wonder if the Tigers would want anyone we have for him. I'd love to have him in the Cubs' rotation.

ReJo
07-09-2010, 03:23 PM
Rick Porcello is on the block. (http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/MLB-latest-news-from-July-070110) I wonder if the Tigers would want anyone we have for him. I'd love to have him in the Cubs' rotation.


The Tigers are reluctant to part with Porcello for a two- or three-month rental. It’s more plausible that they would move him for a pitcher who would be under control for multiple seasons beyond 2010.
Dempster is the only Cub that would fit that description and I don't think the Cubs are looking to move him.

cowboydoc45
07-09-2010, 03:38 PM
Dempster is the only Cub that would fit that description and I don't think the Cubs are looking to move him.

Isn't Silva under contract through 2012?

MrPoon
07-09-2010, 04:51 PM
rangers offering up smoak for lee, yanks out of it??

MrPoon
07-09-2010, 05:01 PM
damn:

3:57pm: The Rangers will acquire Lee and Mark Lowe for Justin Smoak and three others, according to Sherman

redwhitenblue
07-09-2010, 05:08 PM
Hello Ted Lilly sweepstakes!

MrPoon
07-09-2010, 05:12 PM
hahaha, thats what i was thinking.

CubbieSteve
07-09-2010, 05:56 PM
Alright Yanks, we'll take the same players offered for Cliff Lee. Go ahead and get this thing done.

1908_Cubs
07-09-2010, 06:27 PM
I'll take a Justin Smoak for Ted Lilly.....

eriod
07-09-2010, 06:51 PM
I'll take a Justin Smoak for Ted Lilly.....

Oooh, no you won't...

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/baseball/mlb/07/09/rangers.lee/index.html#?eref=sihp

I would have taken him to.

mg420
07-09-2010, 07:27 PM
although this means that the cubs wont be getting davis from the rangers, at least it may open up the floodgates for other trades. they shouldnt have any trouble finding offers for lilly, silva & byrd but i hope they are able to trade fuke & hope they decide to listen to offers for marmol. it's a great opportunity for the cubs to sell high like they did with derosa and let some of the prospects play full time.

Tehjosha
07-09-2010, 07:37 PM
I'll take a Justin Smoak for Ted Lilly.....

Ike Davis would be an intriguing piece, IMO, to try and get from the Mets if they're really going to come hard after Lilly.

This should be an interesting couple of weeks for us. Kinda sad, but we're probably looking at Lilly, Lee, Dome, etc in a Cubs uniform for the last few times.

gocubs2118
07-09-2010, 07:38 PM
The Mets wouldn't even trade Ike Davis for Cliff Lee. I doub they will trade him for Lilly.

Doogolas
07-09-2010, 08:38 PM
I would kill for a good 1B spec from the Mets. Do they have anything other than Davis?

Mell413
07-09-2010, 08:53 PM
I would kill for a good 1B spec from the Mets. Do they have anything other than Davis?

I have the BA handbook and the Mets only have 1 first baseman ranked in their top 30 prospects. His name is Zach Lutz and scouts say he's comparable to Ron Coomer.

Tehjosha
07-09-2010, 08:55 PM
The Mets wouldn't even trade Ike Davis for Cliff Lee. I doub they will trade him for Lilly.

Ahh, I missed that, although it makes sense as to why the Mets never really got far in discussions for Lee. Oh well. We need a 1B spec.

ReJo
07-09-2010, 09:07 PM
********************************/2010/07/texas-has-strong-interest-in-xavier-nady.html

Texas Has "Strong Interest" In Xavier Nady
Now that Justin Smoak is on his way to Seattle, the Rangers are looking at Chicago's Xavier Nady, reports Bruce Levine of ESPNChicago.com. Chris Davis has already been called up from Triple-A to take over first base for Texas, though Davis was sent down in the first place due to his unimpressive .556 OPS in 53 plate appearances that necessitated Smoak's call-up earlier this season.

Nady, meanwhile, has a line of .233/.305/.361 line in 151 PA for the Cubs this season as he tries to recover from major elbow surgery last year. Nady is the last man on the depth chart in a crowded Cubs outfield, and has about $1.6MM still owed to him from the one-year deal he signed with Chicago last January. Nady can earn $2.05MM more due to games-played incentives, which the Rangers would also have to take into consideration should they have a more prominent role in mind for the veteran.

If Texas did acquire the right-handed hitting Nady, it would make sense to platoon him with the left-handed hitting Davis (who has a career .671 OPS against lefties). The Rangers were, however, willing to install a rookie as the everyday first baseman when they called up Smoak, so it's reasonable to think that they'd still show some faith in Davis by letting him take some cuts against major league southpaws. Davis had a whopping .958 OPS for Triple-A Oklahoma City so perhaps he's gotten his confidence back.

Daaaarryyl
07-10-2010, 10:37 PM
I would kill for a good 1B spec from the Mets. Do they have anything other than Davis?

I'll tell you this, there's an under the radar guy in the Mets system that's starting to look like a late bloomer. Lucas Duda was moved off of 1B because he was playing along side Ike Davis and Davis was the better prospect. He's continued to play the OF but he's a natural first baseman.

Drafted as a raw power guy and standing at 6'5 he's been mostly a high on-base guy with little power. This year the power has not only come but his HR rate has jumped since being bumped up to AAA. He's 24 and has shown he can be adequate in the OF (LF) while of course still being a 1B.

He's a guy the Mets would throw in in a deal since they not only have Davis but also Cris Carter and a few interesting corner infield bats in Zach Lutz and Eric Campbell. I'm not guaranteeing Duda will turn into an everyday 1B, just that he has the profile of a true sleeper that could be had right now..

ReJo
07-11-2010, 12:36 AM
How about Ted Lilly for Reese Havens?
Havens is a second baseman in AA. The Mets first round pick in 08 is a nice looking prospect who has power and walks a lot. That's who I would target and I would throw in Fontenot or Theriot as well.

jp611
07-11-2010, 09:30 AM
I'll take a Justin Smoak for Ted Lilly.....

too late for that

GOCUBSGO20
07-11-2010, 01:40 PM
Recent Grumblings From Bruce Levine:

-Texas seems likely to acquire Nady within the next couple of days
-Rockies have "apparent interest" in Theriot
-Hendry had a 8-9 minute conversation with Dodgers GM, Ned Colleti, about possible trades (Lilly?)
- According to CubbiesCrib twitter account, the Mets are losing interest in Lilly. Twins, Rays, and Tigers could all have interest in Lilly still. Also, last night on the WGN Radio 10th Inning Show, it was mentioned that Josh Thole (LH C/Mets 8th best prospect) was one of the names being discusses for Lilly.
-According to the Trib, Giants had a scout to watch Gorzelanny last week.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/cubs/ct-spt-0711-around-town--20100710,0,1196831.column


By Bruce Levine
Cubs general manager Jim Hendry may look to trade some veterans this month.LOS ANGELES -- The Cubs and Dodgers exchanged ideas Friday night as Cubs general manager Jim Hendry and Dodgers general manager Ned Colletti met for 15 minutes in Hendry’s box at Dodger Stadium.

Although Hendry and Colletti like each other, this was not a social visit.

The Dodgers, like any number of contenders, could use a starting pitcher and a bullpen pitcher.

The Cubs can offer veterans, like Friday night’s losing pitcher, Ted Lilly. And he may indeed be the Dodgers’ preference at this point.

Lilly, coming off of two bad outings, is a time-tested veteran who thrives pitching in NL West ballparks where home runs are scarce due to the big ballparks in Los Angeles. San Francisco and San Diego.

Lilly is a fly ball pitcher who gives up, on average, one home run per start. The gutsy lefthander can be projected to be even more effective when pitching in a big park. The Rockies are also a team that needs pitching, however projecting Lilly in Coors Field would be much more difficult to do.

It appears the Cliff Lee trade has energized a lot of talk between GMs and scouts the last couple of days. The Rangers have talked to the Cubs and expressed interest in Xavier Nady, who could be a platoon player at first base and in the outfield after the Rangers traded first baseman Justin Smoa to Seattle in the Lee deal.

Detroit had talks with the Cubs centering around second baseman Ryan Theriot. Those conversations have cooled down. Major League sources tell ESPNChicago.com that the Colorado Rockies now have apparent interest in Theriot.

Carlos Zambrano is due to come off the restricted list sometime after the All-Star break. In order to trade Zambrano, the Cubs and any team interested would have to be creative trying to decide how to split the $40 million remaining on the 29-year-old Venezuelan’s contract. Zambrano’s contract runs through 2012

Cubs420
07-11-2010, 02:07 PM
Lilly is killing us with his last two starts... Hopefully we can still get some decent prospects from him..

BcEuAbRsS
07-11-2010, 03:31 PM
Big papi!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

chicagofan71
07-11-2010, 04:07 PM
Recent Grumblings From Bruce Levine:

-Texas seems likely to acquire Nady within the next couple of days
-Rockies have "apparent interest" in Theriot
-Hendry had a 8-9 minute conversation with Dodgers GM, Ned Colleti, about possible trades (Lilly?)
- According to CubbiesCrib twitter account, the Mets are losing interest in Lilly. Twins, Rays, and Tigers could all have interest in Lilly still. Also, last night on the WGN Radio 10th Inning Show, it was mentioned that Josh Thole (LH C/Mets 8th best prospect) was one of the names being discusses for Lilly.
-According to the Trib, Giants had a scout to watch Gorzelanny last week.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/cubs/ct-spt-0711-around-town--20100710,0,1196831.column

Thole would make very little sense for the Cubs. He doesn't play much 1B, and he has not even close to the power to play there. IMO the only way he would is if the Cubs plan on moving Geo to first, which I'd like.

Lilly's value is really depreciating, but I'm sure we'll get something for him. Same goes for silva.

I'd be interested to see what we get for Nady/Theriot

semperfi
07-11-2010, 06:02 PM
Derrek Lee told The Chicago Tribune's Paul Sullivan that he wouldn't ask Cubs' GM Jim Hendry to trade him to a contender.

chicagofan71
07-11-2010, 06:09 PM
Derrek Lee told The Chicago Tribune's Paul Sullivan that he wouldn't ask Cubs' GM Jim Hendry to trade him to a contender.

Doesn't mean we won't trade him though. Just means he won't ask.

steelSKINSNCUBS
07-11-2010, 06:23 PM
What do you guys think of getting Carlos Pena to play 1st next year. We would be the left handed power bat we need. He would kill at wrigley.

darkfire423
07-11-2010, 06:49 PM
What do you guys think of getting Carlos Pena to play 1st next year. We would be the left handed power bat we need. He would kill at wrigley.

If he is on he will kill in at wrigley. the average is low but he has a good eye so his OBP isnt horrible, lower than Lees. But it is okay.

Everyone needs to keep in mind what Lee means in the field. we already not the best fielding team out there.

steelSKINSNCUBS
07-11-2010, 06:55 PM
If he is on he will kill in at wrigley. the average is low but he has a good eye so his OBP isnt horrible, lower than Lees. But it is okay.

Everyone needs to keep in mind what Lee means in the field. we already not the best fielding team out there.

Thats true, but lee is on the decline and we need some power. We have now maybe upper 20 homer guys. We need a 40 homer guy. I think he would be the worst fielder out of everyone. So one bad defender against everyone else isnt bad. I just think he would compliment this offense really well.

BigRoy
07-11-2010, 09:06 PM
Silva and Lilly are doing there best to make sure the cubs dont get a decent return if they are to be traded.

Captain Obvious
07-11-2010, 10:19 PM
Thats true, but lee is on the decline and we need some power. We have now maybe upper 20 homer guys. We need a 40 homer guy. I think he would be the worst fielder out of everyone. So one bad defender against everyone else isnt bad. I just think he would compliment this offense really well.

Why do we need a 40 HR guy?

Mell413
07-11-2010, 10:24 PM
Why do we need a 40 HR guy?

We aren't getting anything out of first base. I think you are taking his statement too literally. I think he's saying we need a guy that can hit for power out of that position and at the moment we don't have that.

ReJo
07-12-2010, 12:55 AM
Derrek Lee told The Chicago Tribune's Paul Sullivan that he wouldn't ask Cubs' GM Jim Hendry to trade him to a contender.

I don't understand what Lee is saying. So does this mean he won't waive his NTC to go to a contender?

justndav
07-12-2010, 05:55 AM
I truly believe Lee is saying he will not waive his no trade clause. He said something to the effect of that he intends to play out and honor his contract with the Cubs... in other words don't expect him to be moved which is unfortunate because we could probably take a team to the cleaners that needs a 1B right now like perhaps the Angels, Braves, or the Red Sox I suppose.

The way it looks to me the most marketable players we have would be Lilly (and his stock is falling due to his last couple of performances), Silva (who I would ultimately like to keep around, but if we get to good of an offer then we have to move him), Marshall (again don't want to move him as he is a great lefty out of the pen and can be used as a spot starter- only way I trade him is if a team gives us a top three organizational prospect), Ramirez is starting to hit so the Cubs could get some offers for him and his trade clause isn't a full one I don't believe, I think he can be traded to something like 12 teams so I'd do it if we got a really nice offer, Fukudome I'd do whatever we can to clear that salary and pick up a minor prospect or two for him, Gorzelanny I'd consider again only if we are getting a top three to top five organizational prospect otherwise no, Theriot and Fontenot I'd probably ship out, Bob Howry I'd let go, Dempster I'd trade, Wells I'm not sure on, can't trade Soriano due to contract and NTC- same for Zambrano, I'd keep Castro, Soto, Koyie, Byrd, Colvin, Soriano and Zambrano because realistically they aren't getting moved, Marshall, Wells, Gorzelanny, Baker we probably keep around to play 3B but could be moved in a decent deal, gotta keep Cashner, Marmol, and the younger bullpen guys and thats about it. Basically ship out Lee, Ramirez, Fukudome, Theriot, Fontenot, Dempster, possibly Silva, and Lilly. Try and package Lee and Lilly together to a desparate team and you could get a high level 1B and/or pitching prospect. Ramirez and Silva could also net us a pretty nice return as well. Next couple of days/weeks will be interesting to see what we do.

Ron!n
07-12-2010, 08:18 AM
Why do we need a 40 HR guy?

Because 20 HR guys dont cut it?

We could use some SLGing. Hopefully Rami is back to help us but we could use a big power bat at 1st. It doesnt hurt.

semperfi
07-12-2010, 08:39 AM
Because 20 HR guys dont cut it?

We could use some SLGing. Hopefully Rami is back to help us but we could use a big power bat at 1st. It doesnt hurt.

This team could be a serious contender if we were able to aquire a heavy hitter. Prince Fielder or Adam Dunn would almost instantly make this team a contender. Or the reaquisition of 2003-2008 DLee.

Ron!n
07-12-2010, 03:01 PM
The Brewers are ready to sell, and Prince Fielder, Corey Hart and Rickie Weeks are all on the market, although so far there hasn't been a long list of buyers, according to a major league source.

God I would love to get Fielder. But im sure being in the same division means hes going to be super expensive.

Hypothetically speaking, wed have to give up what? Probably Cashner/B-Jax, and Lee/Carpenter/Jackson and a couple lower specs like Demahieu and Burke type guys?

semperfi
07-13-2010, 01:19 PM
God I would love to get Fielder. But im sure being in the same division means hes going to be super expensive.

Hypothetically speaking, wed have to give up what? Probably Cashner/B-Jax, and Lee/Carpenter/Jackson and a couple lower specs like Demahieu and Burke type guys?

I'd do what it takes if we can lock him up long term.

hrubes20
07-13-2010, 01:31 PM
I'd do what it takes if we can lock him up long term.

He has Boras as a client and is already asking for Texeiria money, which IIRC, was around $21 million a year for 6-7 years. He obviously won't get that, but I'd rather wait and see how that 2011 FA 1B class plays out with A-Gon and Pujols still out there. It's almost a foregone conclusion that Fielder will venture into FA, so why should we deal prospects to get the guy? Not to mention that I really don't want the guy for more than 4 more years, maybe 5 tops. His body is not going let him play 1B for that many more years.

semperfi
07-13-2010, 01:42 PM
He has Boras as a client and is already asking for Texeiria money, which IIRC, was around $21 million a year for 6-7 years. He obviously won't get that, but I'd rather wait and see how that 2011 FA 1B class plays out with A-Gon and Pujols still out there. It's almost a foregone conclusion that Fielder will venture into FA, so why should we deal prospects to get the guy? Not to mention that I really don't want the guy for more than 4 more years, maybe 5 tops. His body is not going let him play 1B for that many more years.

I don't see why he shouldn't get that money? If Soriano can get what he's getting, Fielder certainly deserves that amount.

eriod
07-13-2010, 02:10 PM
I don't see why he shouldn't get that money? If Soriano can get what he's getting, Fielder certainly deserves that amount.

I hope that's sarcasm. Otherwise, using "the Cubs did it before, why not again?" argument is ridiculous.

semperfi
07-13-2010, 02:38 PM
I hope that's sarcasm. Otherwise, using "the Cubs did it before, why not again?" argument is ridiculous.

I didn't make any argument besides the fact that Fielder is worth Tex's yearly value if Soriano falls just short of that value. Let me elaborate a little, if Soriano is worth what he is making, a YOUNGER-BETTER player in Fielder should definitely be worth more than what Soriano is making.

hrubes20
07-13-2010, 02:43 PM
I didn't make any argument besides the fact that Fielder is worth Tex's yearly value if Soriano falls just short of that value. Let me elaborate a little, if Soriano is worth what he is making, a YOUNGER-BETTER player in Fielder should definitely be worth more than what Soriano is making.

Aye, there's the rub. Soriano ISN'T worth what he's getting paid, and an NL team (maybe even an AL team) would be stupid to commit that much money and that many years to Fielder. I'm all for opening up the pocketbooks in 2011 for a top-tier 1B, but I want to be throwing the money at A-Gon.

semperfi
07-13-2010, 02:57 PM
Aye, there's the rub. Soriano ISN'T worth what he's getting paid, and an NL team (maybe even an AL team) would be stupid to commit that much money and that many years to Fielder. I'm all for opening up the pocketbooks in 2011 for a top-tier 1B, but I want to be throwing the money at A-Gon.

Worth what he's making or even getting paid to make it. Fielder's should still make more than Soriano is making. NOT TO MENTION HE'S ONLY 26. I'll pay him til he's 32-33, No Questions asked.

Captain Obvious
07-13-2010, 03:07 PM
Soriano ISN'T worth what he's getting paid

Care to back that up with some statistical proof?

Captain Obvious
07-13-2010, 03:08 PM
Like Montero, Soto is a young, offensive backstop with the ability to stay behind the plate. He’s rebounded from last year’s disappointing sophomore campaign, offering his usual blend of patience and power while inexplicably hitting eighth for the Cubs. Given his ability to drive the ball, he could hit in the middle of the order for most teams, and when you have a 27-year-old cacher who can provide that kind of punch, you have a highly valuable piece. The Cubs will control his rights for three more years, and it shouldn’t take them that long to figure out that he’s better than Koyie Hill.

-FanGraphs

They say that Soto has the 42nd most trade value.

Mell413
07-13-2010, 03:11 PM
-FanGraphs

They say that Soto has the 42nd most trade value.

It didn't take long for FG to take a shot at the Cubs.

hrubes20
07-13-2010, 04:42 PM
Care to back that up with some statistical proof?

I am more speaking in terms of the full length of his deal, but I'll bite.

If you are going by the terribly flawed Fangraphs dollar figures, I suppose you might think Soriano is worth what he is getting paid. However, the most accurate way to determine a player's dollar value is the current market. There is a reason why the GM of every other team won't touch Soriano with a 10-foot pole. However, a very good comparable right now would be to Matt Holliday. In the offseason, Holliday got a deal that pays him $17 million annually the next 6 years or so. Soriano's deal pays him $18 million the next 4 years. Most GM's had critical comments on the Holliday deal, saying the Cards overpaid in this current market, both in years and dollars. If Holliday, who has been worth over 1 whole WAR more than Soriano, and is 4 years younger, is not worth $17 million a year to most of the GMs in baseball, how much is Soriano worth? The answer is that it definately isn't $18 million. It's not as if Matt Holliday suddenly became good, either. He's had a WAR of at least 5.5 the past 3 years. In better times, Soriano would likely be playing up to that contract, at least for the moment. But because of the current economical recession, he is just flat out overpaid.

GOCUBSGO20
07-13-2010, 06:23 PM
IMO, Soto has to be a player the Cubs label "untouchable." I would say Soto, Cashner, Colvin, and Marshall are other players the organization would not trade. I know a lot of people consider Marmol untouchable, but I feel the Cubs would trade him if someone overpaid. Another player I cannot see the Cubs trading is Ryan Dempster and even though Ryan is one of my favorite Cubs, he would definitely have some value on the market this July..

Captain Obvious
07-13-2010, 07:01 PM
I am more speaking in terms of the full length of his deal, but I'll bite.

If you are going by the terribly flawed Fangraphs dollar figures, I suppose you might think Soriano is worth what he is getting paid. However, the most accurate way to determine a player's dollar value is the current market. There is a reason why the GM of every other team won't touch Soriano with a 10-foot pole. However, a very good comparable right now would be to Matt Holliday. In the offseason, Holliday got a deal that pays him $17 million annually the next 6 years or so. Soriano's deal pays him $18 million the next 4 years. Most GM's had critical comments on the Holliday deal, saying the Cards overpaid in this current market, both in years and dollars. If Holliday, who has been worth over 1 whole WAR more than Soriano, and is 4 years younger, is not worth $17 million a year to most of the GMs in baseball, how much is Soriano worth? The answer is that it definately isn't $18 million. It's not as if Matt Holliday suddenly became good, either. He's had a WAR of at least 5.5 the past 3 years. In better times, Soriano would likely be playing up to that contract, at least for the moment. But because of the current economical recession, he is just flat out overpaid.

You didn't even take a look at how the market was in 2006, when we signed Soriano. That was before the recession, completely different. I also like how your statistical proof is what GM's say and you don't even provide links for that.

The ChiCago KiD
07-13-2010, 07:16 PM
I didn't make any argument besides the fact that Fielder is worth Tex's yearly value if Soriano falls just short of that value. Let me elaborate a little, if Soriano is worth what he is making, a YOUNGER-BETTER player in Fielder should definitely be worth more than what Soriano is making.

what makes this quote stupid boys and girls is that we know soriano is not worth the money he is getting. Fielder is good but not that good. The sad thing though is that someone will pay him. its just how it goes.

Captain Obvious
07-13-2010, 07:20 PM
what makes this quote stupid boys and girls is that we know soriano is not worth the money he is getting.

Really? Cause I sure as hell would love for someone to prove this to me.

chicagofan71
07-13-2010, 08:42 PM
Really? Cause I sure as hell would love for someone to prove this to me.

In 2010, currently 17 more outfielders are more valuable than he is. And only 7 OFers are being paid more.

2009 needs no explanation. Injury or not, he sucked. Didn't earn ****.

In 2008, he was 13th in WAR, while being the 6th highest paid outfielder in the league. One of which was Andruw Jones, who was ****ing terrible in 2008.

In 2007, he did; 3 players were paid higher, while he was 4th among outifleders in WAR.

1 out of 4 years he has "earned his contract". And he's only declining.

Mell413
07-13-2010, 08:49 PM
In 2010, currently 17 more outfielders are more valuable than he is. And only 7 OFers are being paid more.

2009 needs no explanation. Injury or not, he sucked. Didn't earn ****.

In 2008, he was 13th in WAR, while being the 6th highest paid outfielder in the league. One of which was Andruw Jones, who was ****ing terrible in 2008.

In 2007, he did; 3 players were paid higher, while he was 4th among outifleders in WAR.

1 out of 4 years he has "earned his contract". And he's only declining.

I don't know how useful it is to group all outfielders together since center field gets an advantage due to positional adjustment. I'm not saying he is or isn't worth his contract, but I don't like using WAR across positions.

Captain Obvious
07-13-2010, 09:03 PM
In 2010, currently 17 more outfielders are more valuable than he is. And only 7 OFers are being paid more.

2009 needs no explanation. Injury or not, he sucked. Didn't earn ****.

In 2008, he was 13th in WAR, while being the 6th highest paid outfielder in the league. One of which was Andruw Jones, who was ****ing terrible in 2008.

In 2007, he did; 3 players were paid higher, while he was 4th among outifleders in WAR.

1 out of 4 years he has "earned his contract". And he's only declining.

He was worth $28.1 million in 07, made 10 million. Worth his contract.

He was worth $19.9 million in 08, made 14 million. Worth his contract.

Last year he was injured, so I don't even see how it is fair to include last year.

This year he is worth 9.8 million, so let's say he doubles that the 2nd half of the season...he is worth 19.6 million and makes 18 million.

How is he declining though? He is having his best season with the bat.

chicagofan71
07-13-2010, 10:47 PM
He was worth $28.1 million in 07, made 10 million. Worth his contract.

He was worth $19.9 million in 08, made 14 million. Worth his contract.

Last year he was injured, so I don't even see how it is fair to include last year.

This year he is worth 9.8 million, so let's say he doubles that the 2nd half of the season...he is worth 19.6 million and makes 18 million.

How is he declining though? He is having his best season with the bat.

I'm pretty sure we've established that the Fangraphs salary values are pretty damn flawed so your argument carries very little weight.

And no, this is not his best offensive season. This is probably his 3rd best, with his best to being arguably 2006 and 2007, respectively. 2010 is roughly his 3rd best. Sense the pattern? And he's god knows how old.

Captain Obvious
07-13-2010, 11:02 PM
I'm pretty sure we've established that the Fangraphs salary values are pretty damn flawed so your argument carries very little weight.

And no, this is not his best offensive season. This is probably his 3rd best, with his best to being arguably 2006 and 2007, respectively. 2010 is roughly his 3rd best. Sense the pattern? And he's god knows how old.

I see no problem with their salary figures. And no, this is definitely his best season, so far. Let's use wOBA, the best offensive statistic, shall we? He has a .380 so far this year and he also had a .380 in 2007. So technically he is tied for best season in his career.

chicagofan71
07-13-2010, 11:15 PM
I see no problem with their salary figures. And no, this is definitely his best season, so far. Let's use wOBA, the best offensive statistic, shall we? He has a .380 so far this year and he also had a .380 in 2007. So technically he is tied for best season in his career.

His OPS and WAR say otherwise though, not to mention his UZR/150 has began to significantly declined.

And yeah they are pretty flawed. The inflation is the problem.You really think 40 players (not including pitchers) were worth atleast 20 million dollars a year?

Captain Obvious
07-13-2010, 11:27 PM
His OPS and WAR say otherwise though, not to mention his UZR/150 has began to significantly declined.

And yeah they are pretty flawed. The inflation is the problem.You really think 40 players (not including pitchers) were worth atleast 20 million dollars a year?

WAR takes into account defense. OPS is not that great of a stat, there is a reason wOBA is the best. All I see is that his defense is not as good as it once was, a lot of that has to do with his speed, as he is not as fast as he was. That has nothing to do with his bat.

No I don't think 40 players are worth 20 MM/year. But I do not see that we have a better stat out there that evaluates players as a whole.

chicagofan71
07-13-2010, 11:48 PM
WAR takes into account defense. OPS is not that great of a stat, there is a reason wOBA is the best. All I see is that his defense is not as good as it once was, a lot of that has to do with his speed, as he is not as fast as he was. That has nothing to do with his bat.

No I don't think 40 players are worth 20 MM/year. But I do not see that we have a better stat out there that evaluates players as a whole.

I'm aware WAR does, but since you used wOBA, a strictly offensive stat, i showed you the strictly fielding stat. But whatever it's irrelevant the point is he has continually decreased in value, although this year might be slightly better than last depending on the 2nd half.

And that last part really detoriates your whole argument. You were basing it off Soriano's salary value according Fangraphs; but you just admitted those numbers are inflated...therefore admitting they're flawed and wouldn't be the greatest to use to say "hey fangraphs say he was worth 19.9 million, he's worth his contract!".

Captain Obvious
07-13-2010, 11:56 PM
I'm aware WAR does, but since you used wOBA, a strictly offensive stat, i showed you the strictly fielding stat. But whatever it's irrelevant the point is he has continually decreased in value, although this year might be slightly better than last depending on the 2nd half.

And that last part really detoriates your whole argument. You were basing it off Soriano's salary value according Fangraphs; but you just admitted those numbers are inflated...therefore admitting they're flawed and wouldn't be the greatest to use to say "hey fangraphs say he was worth 19.9 million, he's worth his contract!".

But the point is that we have nothing else to use. So I am gonna go with what fangraphs says, since we have nothing else to use. While my argument is a little flawed, what is your argument?

chicagofan71
07-14-2010, 12:05 AM
But the point is that we have nothing else to use. So I am gonna go with what fangraphs says, since we have nothing else to use. While my argument is a little flawed, what is your argument?

Then don't use it. If it's flawed you shouldn't use it to measure whether to Soriano earned his contract. And I told you:

In 2010, currently 17 more outfielders are more valuable than he is. And only 7 OFers are being paid more.

2009 needs no explanation. Injury or not, he sucked. Didn't earn ****.

In 2008, he was 13th in WAR, while being the 6th highest paid outfielder in the league. One of which was Andruw Jones, who was ****ing terrible in 2008.

In 2007, he did; 3 players were paid higher, while he was 4th among outifleders in WAR.

1 out of 4 years he has "earned his contract". And he's only declining.

Captain Obvious
07-14-2010, 12:24 AM
Then don't use it. If it's flawed you shouldn't use it to measure whether to Soriano earned his contract. And I told you:

And then you go and use WAR.


I don't know how useful it is to group all outfielders together since center field gets an advantage due to positional adjustment. I'm not saying he is or isn't worth his contract, but I don't like using WAR across positions.

marvotolduso
07-14-2010, 02:13 AM
how about T.Lilly for A.Dunn.

hrubes20
07-14-2010, 09:59 AM
You didn't even take a look at how the market was in 2006, when we signed Soriano. That was before the recession, completely different. I also like how your statistical proof is what GM's say and you don't even provide links for that.

I didn't realize I had to give you links for commonly held knowledge. :confused:

And the market in 2006 has nothing to do with Soriano's current situation or the market today. The question was whether or not Soriano is, right now, worth the money he is getting paid. Since better players than Soriano are getting much less money on the current market, and that no GM will even consider the possibility of trading for Soriano, I am more than inclined to believe that he is getting overpaid by a fair amount in this market. I'm not trying to bash Soriano, as he is having a very good year. He just simply isn't performing like a guy that should be getting a top 10 highest salary in the game today, as he certainly isn't playing like a top 10 player. He isn't even a top 10 OFer right now.

eriod
07-14-2010, 10:23 AM
how about T.Lilly for A.Dunn.

No way the Cubs get Dunn for only Lilly. You'll have to throw in more.

chicagofan71
07-14-2010, 11:17 AM
And then you go and use WAR.

:confused:

Regardless, he is the 2nd highest paid LFer and the 8th most valuable LFer in 2010.

He was 2nd highest paid in 08, and 5th most valuable too (in terms of LFers)

And it's established that 07 he most certainly earned his deal, and 09 he most certainly didn't.

Like I said, 1 out of the 4 years he's earned his contract. And that year was the first one.

chicagofan71
07-14-2010, 11:19 AM
I didn't realize I had to give you links for commonly held knowledge. :confused:

And the market in 2006 has nothing to do with Soriano's current situation or the market today. The question was whether or not Soriano is, right now, worth the money he is getting paid. Since better players than Soriano are getting much less money on the current market, and that no GM will even consider the possibility of trading for Soriano, I am more than inclined to believe that he is getting overpaid by a fair amount in this market. I'm not trying to bash Soriano, as he is having a very good year. He just simply isn't performing like a guy that should be getting a top 10 highest salary in the game today, as he certainly isn't playing like a top 10 player. He isn't even a top 10 OFer right now.

I agree here too, I'm pretty sure everyone knows Soriano's contract is untradeable, or else he'd certainly be dealt.

johnlh
07-14-2010, 11:26 AM
Does anyone consider Carlos Pena as a one year option? He is having a down year and may take a one year deal to try and increase his value for the following offseason... Pena has always been good with the glove at 1st...

Why would we trade one old guy for another? Trading just to trade makes no sense. A deal needs to improve the club either now or the near future. The days of building for the future are over. Fans do not come to games to see the future. They want to win now and they pay the money. Owners are aware of this and try and get the fans to keep an interest by staying competitive. We just cannot dump all these high price contracts. It want work. We should be able to trade Lilly without taking a loss as a LH starter for a contending team is in big demand. Soriano is not tradable. He is still good but not $18 million dollars worth of good. We will have to live with him. Aram will still be here come next year. Lee is an interesting subject. He has only one year left on his contract and someone might be willing to invest in him if he can make a difference in a pennant run. His no trade means he will only go to a contender and likely on the west coast where his home is. I have not a clue what will happen to Carlos. I doubt he is done forever and has a good chance of making it back into someones starting rotation but not at his present salary. Would the Cubs just eat $17 mil a year for a few years. I do not think so. We can only eat so much money and then it becomes a negative as we do not have money for free agents, etc.

Heyyo1900
07-14-2010, 11:27 AM
In retrospect, who would you rather have had. Carlos Lee or Alfonso Soriano?

semperfi
07-14-2010, 11:33 AM
Why would we trade one old guy for another? Trading just to trade makes no sense. A deal needs to improve the club either now or the near future. The days of building for the future are over. Fans do not come to games to see the future. They want to win now and they pay the money. Owners are aware of this and try and get the fans to keep an interest by staying competitive. We just cannot dump all these high price contracts. It want work. We should be able to trade Lilly without taking a loss as a LH starter for a contending team is in big demand. Soriano is not tradable. He is still good but not $18 million dollars worth of good. We will have to live with him. Aram will still be here come next year. Lee is an interesting subject. He has only one year left on his contract and someone might be willing to invest in him if he can make a difference in a pennant run. His no trade means he will only go to a contender and likely on the west coast where his home is. I have not a clue what will happen to Carlos. I doubt he is done forever and has a good chance of making it back into someones starting rotation but not at his present salary. Would the Cubs just eat $17 mil a year for a few years. I do not think so. We can only eat so much money and then it becomes a negative as we do not have money for free agents, etc.

Obviously fans still come to the games when we suck. Look at this year if you need proof. Most fans would be for rebuilding if it meant we would be more competitive in the future. It's not like people didn't go to games when we were the worst team in baseball. Now is the time to rebuild. This core of players isn't going to get it done.

BcEuAbRsS
07-14-2010, 05:17 PM
Why would we trade one old guy for another? Trading just to trade makes no sense. A deal needs to improve the club either now or the near future. The days of building for the future are over. Fans do not come to games to see the future. They want to win now and they pay the money. Owners are aware of this and try and get the fans to keep an interest by staying competitive. We just cannot dump all these high price contracts. It want work. We should be able to trade Lilly without taking a loss as a LH starter for a contending team is in big demand. Soriano is not tradable. He is still good but not $18 million dollars worth of good. We will have to live with him. Aram will still be here come next year. Lee is an interesting subject. He has only one year left on his contract and someone might be willing to invest in him if he can make a difference in a pennant run. His no trade means he will only go to a contender and likely on the west coast where his home is. I have not a clue what will happen to Carlos. I doubt he is done forever and has a good chance of making it back into someones starting rotation but not at his present salary. Would the Cubs just eat $17 mil a year for a few years. I do not think so. We can only eat so much money and then it becomes a negative as we do not have money for free agents, etc.

I'm not suggesting a trade... I'm talking as an offseason addition for a one yr deal... I firmly believe DLEE is going to the angels as some point... we don't have a clear fill for 1st so I'm suggesting a one yr deal for a decent player so we can try and get one of the 3 come 2011...

chicagofan71
07-14-2010, 05:21 PM
In retrospect, who would you rather have had. Carlos Lee or Alfonso Soriano?

Soriano. No doubt.

GOCUBSGO20
07-15-2010, 01:09 PM
In a report out of the sun times, It suggests the #Cubs are considering trading Ted Lilly to the #Mets for 3 Low Level Prospects (More)

The Three prospects would be LHP Robert Carson, RHP Kyle Allen, and RHP Jeurys Familia #Cubs #Mets
4 minutes ago via web
Reply Retweet .

http://twitter.com/CubbiesCrib

Kirel
07-15-2010, 01:22 PM
In a report out of the sun times, It suggests the #Cubs are considering trading Ted Lilly to the #Mets for 3 Low Level Prospects (More)

The Three prospects would be LHP Robert Carson, RHP Kyle Allen, and RHP Jeurys Familia #Cubs #Mets
4 minutes ago via web
Reply Retweet .

http://twitter.com/CubbiesCrib
The only one of that set I know of is Familia, who is hard thrower that was in the futures game this year. Though some research says Allen is similar to Familia in projection.

It'd be a nice set of arms to add to the team.

Mell413
07-15-2010, 01:28 PM
I'd prefer position players back, but those are some decent arms. Allen has a fastball that is around 91-92 that can peak up to 95. They say he has a plus change and an improving slider. Scouts say it may be his best pitch

Carson has a fastball that is between 88-92 and reaches 95. He doesn't allow a lot of HRs. Slider that sits in the low 80s and high 70s changeup.

Kirel
07-15-2010, 01:47 PM
I'd prefer position players back, but those are some decent arms. Allen has a fastball that is around 91-92 that can peak up to 95. They say he has a plus change and an improving slider. Scouts say it may be his best pitch

Carson has a fastball that is between 88-92 and reaches 95. He doesn't allow a lot of HRs. Slider that sits in the low 80s and high 70s changeup.
eh, on the low end I tend to not prefer position players, because the Cubs would get back bench bats and AAA depth. Pitchers are more variable and more likely to break out.

Starting position players are just too easily identified and too difficult to get at bargain rates.

Mell413
07-15-2010, 01:51 PM
eh, on the low end I tend to not prefer position players, because the Cubs would get back bench bats and AAA depth. Pitchers are more variable and more likely to break out.

Starting position players are just too easily identified and too difficult to get at bargain rates.

Fair point. Our system could use some bats particularly at the corners, which is why I thought dealing Lilly could help there.

mg420
07-15-2010, 01:53 PM
wonder if the mets would be interested in silva instead of lilly. dont think many AL teams would want silva so it would be better if the cubs can trade lilly to the twins or tigers and silva to the mets.

poodski
07-15-2010, 02:05 PM
:confused:

Regardless, he is the 2nd highest paid LFer and the 8th most valuable LFer in 2010.

He was 2nd highest paid in 08, and 5th most valuable too (in terms of LFers)

And it's established that 07 he most certainly earned his deal, and 09 he most certainly didn't.

Like I said, 1 out of the 4 years he's earned his contract. And that year was the first one.

Thats a pretty poor way to look at it though. Just because he was 2nd in salary, doesnt mean he has to finish second or higher to be worth his contract.

So taking 2008 for example, he was 5th in production behind: Manny, Holliday, Quentin and Braun. Holliday, Quintin, and Braun were still under arbitration so there is no way they were going to make that type of money. Hell Braun is still only making 1 million dollars.

You have to go by what the average win share goes for on the open market, and if you go by that Soriano was worth 19.9 million dollars in 2008, and Soriano was paid 13-15 million (depending on how you split up his signing bonus). So he was definitely worth his salary in 2007 and 2008, and is looking to be worth it in 2010. If he gets another 1.5 WAR this season at this point his contract will be a wash, and he has given us what we paid for.

It really is a damn shame he **** the bed in 2009. Injured or not, he **** the bed.

BigRoy
07-15-2010, 02:37 PM
George Sherrill got placed on waivers, I know he has a lot left on his contract, but maybe we could do a swap with one of our higher payed players.

chicagofan71
07-15-2010, 02:40 PM
In a report out of the sun times, It suggests the #Cubs are considering trading Ted Lilly to the #Mets for 3 Low Level Prospects (More)

The Three prospects would be LHP Robert Carson, RHP Kyle Allen, and RHP Jeurys Familia #Cubs #Mets
4 minutes ago via web
Reply Retweet .

http://twitter.com/CubbiesCrib

That would be an absolutely awful trade IMO. We should be looking for more position prospects who are close to being ready. Not 3 struggling A+ pitchers. How the hell do you even go from Josh Thole or even Reese Havens to those three?

mg420
07-15-2010, 02:57 PM
That would be an absolutely awful trade IMO. We should be looking for more position prospects who are close to being ready. Not 3 struggling A+ pitchers. How the hell do you even go from Josh Thole or even Reese Havens to those three?

probably because the mets decided not give up either of those two for 2+ months of lilly. havens would be way too much but thole would be nice if he's still a possibility. hopefully a club will be desperate enough to overpay now instead of dragging it out to the 31st deadline.

cowboydoc45
07-15-2010, 04:12 PM
George Sherrill got placed on waivers, I know he has a lot left on his contract, but maybe we could do a swap with one of our higher payed players.

If he clears waivers, then you don't have to pay his full salary, just the prorated league min.

thornga2
07-16-2010, 05:23 PM
With his recent hot streak, is Aramis suddenly tradeable? Since the beginning of the Arizona series, his slash line is .459/.487/1.054 with 5 HR and 14 RBI in 9 games. That's a pretty ridiculous pace, but if he can continue producing and working his way back towards his career numbers,

A- would his contract become tradeable?
B- Would management rather hold on to him for 2011?
C- Would he accept a trade?

redwhitenblue
07-16-2010, 05:24 PM
With his recent hot streak, is Aramis suddenly tradeable? Since the beginning of the Arizona series, his slash line is .459/.487/1.054 with 5 HR and 14 RBI in 9 games. That's a pretty ridiculous pace, but if he can continue producing and working his way back towards his career numbers,

A- would his contract become tradeable?
B- Would management rather hold on to him for 2011?
C- Would he accept a trade?
Why would you want to trade him if he is hitting again?

The only reason people were unhappy with him was because of his offensive failures. His contract is VERY reasonable and if the Cubs want to have a chance at contending in the next 2-3 years (which I think is still very possible, against what other people may believe) you need him.

Doogolas
07-16-2010, 05:27 PM
Yeah trading him is surrendering next season. Because that gives us a gaping hole at 3B. Aramis, if healthy and back to normal, isn't a guy you trade. Especially since, due to how AWFUL his start was, he's almost guaranteed to not opt out. Which means he'll only be I think $14.3MM next year. That's a fantastic deal for a normal 135 game season from Aramis.

Yagyu+
07-17-2010, 12:16 AM
Anyone catch what Lilly said (http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/cubs/ct-spt-0716-bits-cubs-phillies-chicag20100715,0,2478603.story) when asked about his meeting with Hendry?


"I don't know if I have the right to discuss that," he said. "Write whatever you want."

chicagofan71
07-17-2010, 08:05 PM
Apparently the Orioles are making their young players available. Oh silly Andy.

Marlin Bystro
07-18-2010, 03:43 PM
Anyone catch what Lilly said (http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/cubs/ct-spt-0716-bits-cubs-phillies-chicag20100715,0,2478603.story) when asked about his meeting with Hendry?

My money is on Lilly going to Detroit and it could be very soon.

Ron!n
07-18-2010, 03:45 PM
My money is on Lilly going to Detroit and it could be very soon.
Anybody you like on Detroit?

Doogolas
07-18-2010, 04:04 PM
My money is on Lilly going to Detroit and it could be very soon.

Are you thinking something like Sizemore? Cause I feel like that'd be fantastic.

Mell413
07-18-2010, 04:16 PM
Am I missing something on Sizemore here? He didn't perform all that well in his time up this year so maybe you guys are seeing something I'm not.