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View Full Version : Is Phil Jackson the best coach of all time?



CowboysKB24
06-18-2010, 05:18 PM
After winning his 11th NBA Championship last night, is Phil Jackson the best coach ever in the NBA?

Raps18-19 Champ
06-18-2010, 05:20 PM
Yea.

The guy has 11 ice. He can get frostbites with that.

Reyes6
06-18-2010, 05:21 PM
I still say Red Auerbach, the Cigar puts it over the top.

GSW Hoops
06-18-2010, 05:21 PM
He's the best manager of superstar egos of all-time.

kurivaimu
06-18-2010, 05:35 PM
I think no.
Phil has been blessed with terrific players.

magichatnumber9
06-18-2010, 05:36 PM
Phil is pretty darn good.

Mplsman
06-18-2010, 05:41 PM
Of course he is. 11 rings.

GetDenarded
06-18-2010, 05:42 PM
In my time, yes.

I don't know enough about the Red Auerbach days to really have an opinion...

kblo247
06-18-2010, 05:44 PM
I think no.
Phil has been blessed with terrific players.

You say that with Red being apart of your team? He was more blessed for a diluted league with the best talent.

Hell Riley had more talent and depth given to him than Phil.

Simple and plain yes he is.

gwrighter
06-18-2010, 05:44 PM
Jackson is the best coach yes. He needs to start getting his rings fitted for his toes.

td0tsfinest
06-18-2010, 05:44 PM
Jackson has been blessed with great players but he's built a great offensive system. You definitely have to give him credit from being a large part of winning those championships.

rjvacad
06-18-2010, 05:46 PM
I think no.
Phil has been blessed with terrific players.

Yes he was and so was Red, Red had all stars at every position. I don't see how anyone can honestly say, Red was better. Phil won more titles and coached less games.

ko8e24
06-18-2010, 05:46 PM
Um well duuhhhhhh

/thread

cubs0707
06-18-2010, 05:47 PM
he didnt build that offensive system

but yes hes the goat of coaching

-Kobe24-TJ19-
06-18-2010, 05:48 PM
I think no.
Phil has been blessed with terrific players.

Auerbach had teams which were filled with all-stars

nycsports2
06-18-2010, 05:51 PM
top 3 but he had mj and kobe i dont think theres a best just top 3

cubs0707
06-18-2010, 05:52 PM
what 2 are bettter

bmac_121
06-18-2010, 05:53 PM
I think no.
Phil has been blessed with terrific players.

Any coach who has won mulitple championships has been blessed with terrific players. With 11 titles, I think its safe to say he is the front runner of the discussion.

GSW Hoops
06-18-2010, 05:54 PM
I think no.
Phil has been blessed with terrific players.

Name one coach who has won an NBA title without terrific players.

jbeezy
06-18-2010, 05:55 PM
Phil Jackson- Best Coach of All-time.

cubs0707
06-18-2010, 05:55 PM
Name one coach who has won an NBA title without terrific players.
when detriot won without great players

Padres Son
06-18-2010, 05:56 PM
He's the best NBA coach of all time. John Wooden is the best basketball coach of all time.

GSW Hoops
06-18-2010, 05:57 PM
when detriot won without great players

Yeah, I guess 4 all-star players doesn't count.

cubs0707
06-18-2010, 05:57 PM
Yeah, I guess 4 all-star players doesn't count.
ummm i guess if you make a allstar team your great

GSW Hoops
06-18-2010, 05:59 PM
ummm i guess if you make a allstar team your great

Yeah, it kinda does. Especially when 4 of them are on the same team.

cubs0707
06-18-2010, 06:00 PM
Yeah, it kinda does. Especially when 4 of them are on the same team.

:facepalm:

wow so when you make a allstar team your great
hmmm

i thought ai was great this year

cubs0707
06-18-2010, 06:02 PM
Jamaal Magloire is great too

cubs0707
06-18-2010, 06:03 PM
hell brad miller was a allstar

i wonder why the bulls didnt get out of the first round
:facepalm:

gwrighter
06-18-2010, 06:04 PM
jamaal magloire is great too

reppin TDOT!

GSW Hoops
06-18-2010, 06:06 PM
:facepalm:

wow so when you make a allstar team your great
hmmm

i thought ai was great this year

:pity:

Let me break it down for you:

1. Chauncey Billups was a great player that year. No question about it.

2. I think Ben Wallace won DPOY that year, the year before and the year after. That's pretty great.

3. Rasheed Wallace was in his prime. Borderline great.

4. Rip Hamilton was in his prime. Not a great player but damn good.

5. Let's not forget Tayshaun Prince, who was a terrific player.

So yeah, if you don't think 4 all-stars and Tayshaun Prince don't count as "terrific" players, you must not know much about basketball.

GSW Hoops
06-18-2010, 06:07 PM
hell brad miller was a allstar

i wonder why the bulls didnt get out of the first round
:facepalm:

You do realize that Brad Miller made the all-star team about 5-6 years ago, right?

cubs0707
06-18-2010, 06:08 PM
:pity:

Let me break it down for you:

1. Chauncey Billups was a great player that year. No question about it.

2. I think Ben Wallace won DPOY that year, the year before and the year after. That's pretty great.

3. Rasheed Wallace was in his prime. Borderline great.

4. Rip Hamilton was in his prime. Not a great player but damn good.

5. Let's not forget Tayshaun Prince, who was a terrific player.

So yeah, if you don't think 4 all-stars and Tayshaun Prince don't count as "terrific" players, you must not know much about basketball.

you said if you make a allstar team your great

that team had no great player no kobe or mj
it was a team effort

cubs0707
06-18-2010, 06:09 PM
You do realize that Brad Miller made the all-star team about 5-6 years ago, right?
yeah he was GREAT then plus we have d rose now
and he made it this year so hes GREAT now

Raps18-19 Champ
06-18-2010, 06:09 PM
Yeah, it kinda does. Especially when 4 of them are on the same team.

That's a horrible argument.

I guess Mo Williams, Jameer Nelson, and Zach Randolph are great too.

GSW Hoops
06-18-2010, 06:10 PM
you said if you make a allstar team your great

that team had no great player no kobe or mj
it was a team effort

Actually, you said great. I said "terrific" players. Maybe you should read my original post again.

The Pistons had great players and terrific players, which is why they won an NBA title. That's the point of my argument: You need great players to win an NBA title.

cubs0707
06-18-2010, 06:11 PM
Yeah, it kinda does. Especially when 4 of them are on the same team.
i said so making a allstar team means your great and you said this

GSW Hoops
06-18-2010, 06:12 PM
That's a horrible argument.

I guess Mo Williams, Jameer Nelson, and Zach Randolph are great too.

Zach Randolph had a great season, wouldn't you agree? During the 2009-2010 season, he was a great player.

gwrighter
06-18-2010, 06:13 PM
yeah he was GREAT then plus we have d rose now
and he made it this year so hes GREAT now

i bet a lot of bulls fans would disagree with you on how great drose is. lol. but in all seriousness. making it to the all-star game is the first step towards greatness. sustaining that play is what makes someone great. is AI a great player? yes.

cubs0707
06-18-2010, 06:13 PM
Zach Randolph had a great season, wouldn't you agree? During the 2009-2010 season, he was a great player.
no he was good
big diffrence bettween good an great

GSW Hoops
06-18-2010, 06:13 PM
i said so making a allstar team means your great and you said this

What do you think all-star means? The greatest players of that season make the all-star team.

Raps18-19 Champ
06-18-2010, 06:14 PM
Zach Randolph had a great season, wouldn't you agree? During the 2009-2010 season, he was a great player.

You used 'great' in the context to describe a player though. And when you describe a player as great, you pretty much meaning their whole or most of their careers.

Padres Son
06-18-2010, 06:14 PM
Wow. How did this thread turn into the stupidest argument of all time?

cubs0707
06-18-2010, 06:14 PM
i bet a lot of bulls fans would disagree with you on how great drose is. lol. but in all seriousness. making it to the all-star game is the first step towards greatness. sustaining that play is what makes someone great. is AI a great player? yes.
im a bulls fan thats why i used them

and AI was a great player not now though

cubs0707
06-18-2010, 06:16 PM
ok to get back on topic phil is the goat of coaching

GSW Hoops
06-18-2010, 06:16 PM
You used 'great' in the context to describe a player though. And when you describe a player as great, you pretty much meaning their whole or most of their careers.

Not necessarily. A player can be great for a season or even a single game. Look at Penny Hardaway, Tracy McGrady, etc.

thedon01
06-18-2010, 06:17 PM
he was the best coach of all time after last years win

Raps18-19 Champ
06-18-2010, 06:19 PM
Not necessarily. A player can be great for a season or even a single game. Look at Penny Hardaway, Tracy McGrady, etc.

You gotta be more specific then if it is just for a season or a game.

If Bargnani had a 70 point game, I would just say "Bargnani is a great player". I would say "Bargnani had a great game".

You gotta use your wordings better.

cubs0707
06-18-2010, 06:19 PM
no you can be good for a game or season

JasonJohnHorn
06-18-2010, 06:20 PM
He is the winningest coach, that much is quantifiable.

Is he the greatest? I wouldn't say so. I would say there is a certain level of greatness you reach, a level that puts you at a level that is as good as any. I'd say Phil is there. I'd say Red is there. I'd say Jerry Sloan, and Pop and John Wooden and Dean Smith are there. Perhaps Larry Brown as well. I'm only 33 so I can't speak to guys who coached in the 60's and 70's really, but I don't think you could honestly say any of the above coaches are better than each other.

Phil Jackson's first job was coaching Michael Jordan, Scottie Pippen and Horace Grant, and he had inherited a successful team (ECF- game 7) and was an assistant to Doug Collins and took over that system that was already working well, he had a great assistant in Tex Winters who came up with the Triangle offence, and his first year he did no better than Collins: a game 7 loss to Detroit in the ECF. It wasn't until he had more depth and BJ Armstrong and Stacy King were a little more mature/consistent off the bench (tool Collins didn't have) that he finally won.

His second job was coaching Shaq. Then he coached Kobe and Gasol. All-stars like Ron Harper, Horace Grant, Mitch richmond, Lark Malone and Gary Payton signed with his teams to go ring chasing. He was very blessed in that he always has had a lot of great players, and most coaches can't say they've always been in a situation where it was possible to win it all every year.

The only years he didnt coach a legit contender were 06 and 07, and those to me, were his most impressive seasons as a coach because he had so little to work with and still managed to get a team, that was not so dissimilar to the one in 05, into the playoffs in a deep west, were as a quality coach in Rudy T only got 34 wins out of them (though he did have a little less to work with).

So he is as good as any of the greats, but he is not above them. He has just coached the most HOFers and has been able to capitalize on that and in turn has become the winnings coach in historys.

And for the record, he's got 13 rings, two as a player for the NYK.

GSW Hoops
06-18-2010, 06:24 PM
You gotta be more specific then if it is just for a season or a game.

If Bargnani had a 70 point game, I would just say "Bargnani is a great player". I would say "Bargnani had a great game".

You gotta use your wordings better.

If you read carefully, you'll see I said "During the 2009-2010 season, [Zach Randolph] was a great player." How could you possibly misinterpret that statement?


Zach Randolph had a great season, wouldn't you agree? During the 2009-2010 season, he was a great player.

D1JM
06-18-2010, 06:53 PM
Yes he is. One championship ring for every finger in his hands and #11 on his di**

CowboysKB24
06-18-2010, 07:04 PM
I think no.
Phil has been blessed with terrific players.

He took Jordan over the top. Jordan didn't win until Phil came in built the team around him and the triangle offense. He built Kobe's team now with Gasol, Fisher, Odom, Bynum base. I think he has done a great job building teams along with luck (every great player/coach has had great luck).

Red dominated the league for ten years with Russell. It was the same thing. Phil has done it with different players and eras. IMO Phil is the best coach and there is not much of an argument. You can't top the things he has done.

CowboysKB24
06-18-2010, 07:05 PM
He is the winningest coach, that much is quantifiable.

Is he the greatest? I wouldn't say so. I would say there is a certain level of greatness you reach, a level that puts you at a level that is as good as any. I'd say Phil is there. I'd say Red is there. I'd say Jerry Sloan, and Pop and John Wooden and Dean Smith are there. Perhaps Larry Brown as well. I'm only 33 so I can't speak to guys who coached in the 60's and 70's really, but I don't think you could honestly say any of the above coaches are better than each other.

Phil Jackson's first job was coaching Michael Jordan, Scottie Pippen and Horace Grant, and he had inherited a successful team (ECF- game 7) and was an assistant to Doug Collins and took over that system that was already working well, he had a great assistant in Tex Winters who came up with the Triangle offence, and his first year he did no better than Collins: a game 7 loss to Detroit in the ECF. It wasn't until he had more depth and BJ Armstrong and Stacy King were a little more mature/consistent off the bench (tool Collins didn't have) that he finally won.

His second job was coaching Shaq. Then he coached Kobe and Gasol. All-stars like Ron Harper, Horace Grant, Mitch richmond, Lark Malone and Gary Payton signed with his teams to go ring chasing. He was very blessed in that he always has had a lot of great players, and most coaches can't say they've always been in a situation where it was possible to win it all every year.

The only years he didnt coach a legit contender were 06 and 07, and those to me, were his most impressive seasons as a coach because he had so little to work with and still managed to get a team, that was not so dissimilar to the one in 05, into the playoffs in a deep west, were as a quality coach in Rudy T only got 34 wins out of them (though he did have a little less to work with).

So he is as good as any of the greats, but he is not above them. He has just coached the most HOFers and has been able to capitalize on that and in turn has become the winnings coach in historys.

And for the record, he's got 13 rings, two as a player for the NYK.

NBA history, not college.

CowboysKB24
06-18-2010, 07:08 PM
Phil Jackson is going down as the greatest NBA coach ever. I don't see how he can't. He did it in different eras. Highest winning percentage.

I think his most impressive championship was this one. He just beat one of the best defense teams and maybe the best Celtic team ever. He was down 3-2 and manage to keep his team in it. He deserves a lot more credit for the past two rings with Kobe. They might have been his hardest. The league is so competitive now. When Red won his, he did because his team was the best and there was not as much competition. I just think people have to give it up for this guy. Red was great and the only guy in the conversation with Phil. Great basketball mind.

ClayMatthews
06-18-2010, 07:15 PM
You gotta give it to the guy. Hell of a coach.

Bones10564
06-18-2010, 07:16 PM
YES - I would say he is #1...

jackdawson
06-18-2010, 07:21 PM
No.

thedon01
06-18-2010, 07:31 PM
im sorry to burst any bubbles but "GOATS" are measured by championships not individual accomplishments. Dan Marino held every possible passing record but still isnt considered the GOAT because he doesnt have a ring let a lone more than 1. These are team sports we're talking about so your greatness is measured by rings. Phil Jackson has more rings than any other professional sporting coach in north american history. So many people have to find something to nit pick about, He had Jordan, he Had Shaq, He had Kobe. If i recall Phil didnt draft any of those guys, so obviously other coaches had them first and never won, don't discredit Phil Jacksons ability. He is the greatest professional sporting Coach of all time, hands down. prove it otherwise

Lakersfan2483
06-18-2010, 07:37 PM
Phil is the greatest coach in NBA history bar none. 11 titles. He took two diff. teams to multiple titles. His resume speaks for itself.

Bulls- NBA champs 91-93 3 peat
Bulls-NBA champs 96-98-2nd 3peat

Lakers-NBA champs 00-02 3peat
Lakers-NBA champs 09-10 back to back champs

ARMIN12NBA
06-18-2010, 08:00 PM
Phil
Riley
Pop
Daly

My top 4 greatest coaches of all time.

kozelkid
06-18-2010, 08:39 PM
Phil
Riley
Pop
Daly

My top 4 greatest coaches of all time.

Auerbach?

still1ballin
06-18-2010, 08:48 PM
Phil is the best

DeyAce
06-18-2010, 08:54 PM
Isn't it obvious?

_KB24_
06-18-2010, 08:56 PM
Your delusional if you think otherwise
/thread

IDB Josh M
06-18-2010, 09:34 PM
I think Red Auerbach was a better coach. But not by much.

PrettyBoyJ
06-18-2010, 10:38 PM
I think no.
Phil has been blessed with terrific players.

you have to know how to coach great players which Phil Jackson knows how to do jus cuz you have an allstar team doesnt mean your gonna win even if you have the best player on your team still doesnt mean you can win (Mike Brown)

MaHaRaJaH
06-19-2010, 03:08 AM
I think no.
Phil has been blessed with terrific players.

That's an overstated lie.

leftymo
06-19-2010, 03:11 AM
Phil's got 11 titles as a coach, and guess who's favored to win yet again next year? The fact that he's had potentially 4 different teams that 3-peated is all the evidence you need.

The previous knock on Phil is that he never developed or built a team, but he's now done that b/c of the crappy team he took over after the Lakers missed the playoffs. He couldn't get them past the first round for two successive seasons, and then got them to play together in 2008.

He's got 13 total championships (2 as a player)... unbelievable. That's called domination.

heathonater
06-19-2010, 04:40 AM
he's a great coach, but lets not forget that he's coached some of the games greatest players. it definitely helped jackson that he has been a part of teams led by kobe, mj, and shaq. he's accomplished alot, but the players on his teams have helped him win all those titles.

JNA17
06-19-2010, 04:43 AM
yes

The Raven
06-19-2010, 07:39 AM
Its not even a question. Greatest coach ever.

PraiseJesus
06-19-2010, 07:43 AM
yea he is

sventhedog
06-19-2010, 09:06 AM
this "he coaches great teams or players only" is just a made-up excuse by those coaches who didn't win or losers who can't even reach the playoffs.

of course, these players helped but it can't change the importance of coaches. if mike brown was with the 3 peat bulls or 3 peat lakers, do you guys think mike brown would've won the title?

Iron24th
06-19-2010, 09:10 AM
Greatest coach ever.

Yes he had some great players,but keep in mind those same great players never won anything before being coached by Phil.

Hawkeye15
06-19-2010, 09:33 AM
he may not be the best x's and o's guy out there, but he is a master of managing egos and has taken teams that were right there, but couldn't get over the hump, and made them champions. I personally think he deserves the title of greatest NBA coach of all time, but I am not gonna argue someone on Red

todu82
06-19-2010, 10:03 AM
Yes he is. I think he was the best NBA coach before he won his 11th title.

Jays Claw
06-19-2010, 10:26 AM
Phil Jackson is the best NBA coach I've ever seen!

writ42
06-19-2010, 10:55 AM
I think if you are going to measure greatness by the number of rings a coach has then there is no arguing that. If you take other aspects into consideration such as Phil's lack of creativity in using the Triangle offense that could serve to hurt his bid as the greatest, but in fairness he was the ultimate master of the triangle offense. I think just from his days with the Bulls he was the best.

avrpatsfan
06-19-2010, 11:08 AM
Obviously yes.

valade16
06-19-2010, 11:50 AM
Are people taking into account just how many titles Red won in a row? I think as a coach Phil Jackson has to be up there but what about as just the best Basketball mind?

remember Red stayed as General Manager for the Celtics and helped them win 16 titles in 29 seasons.

That's impressive as hell.:speechless:

Not to mention John Wooden won an amazing 10 titles in a 12 year period! Consider that was in college so his best players routinely left for the pro's.

To me, the accomplishments of Jackson, Wooden, and Auerbach are so good it's impossible to make a distinction between what they've done in terms of greatness...

Denver-boy
06-19-2010, 12:39 PM
if he isnt the best than we live in a fantasy world where rings dont mean nothing and sky isnt blue, and the grass is purple, no arguement he's the BEST.

ManningToTyree
06-19-2010, 12:39 PM
No doubt about it. The man just earned a toe ring

Denver-boy
06-19-2010, 12:41 PM
That's a horrible argument.

I guess Mo Williams, Jameer Nelson, and Zach Randolph are great too.

that is one of dumbiest things ive have ever heard, the guy has no clue on whose even good less if their Great. plz do us all a favor and just dont got on this anymore, i dont wanna waste 10 sec of a my life reading this....

Hellcrooner
06-19-2010, 01:00 PM
he needs to tear a hole in his ear to fit that extra ring so yes.

and dont give me the he was given the bla blah teams.


bsame bulls with same roster couldnt go past the celtics or pustons the previous years to him the same lakers couldnt go past the jazz.

the same lakers he took back couldnt make the playoffs with rtomjanivic

rhino17
06-19-2010, 01:03 PM
He is good, but definitely NOT the best. Any good coach or decent coach for that matter could coach the greatest player of all time in MJ and 2 other top 10 players in shaq and kobe.

rapjuicer06
06-19-2010, 02:59 PM
no he is not the best. when you have the best player ever in MJ and then have shaq and kobe, and then have kobe and pau....yea....any schmuck with that kind of talent can win again and again and again. jackson is good at keeping players ego's in check, he's not the best coach ever, not even close. Larry Brown is a better coach than Phil. the only difference is Larry didn't have the the best players ever at their respective positions in play for him

shep33
06-19-2010, 03:24 PM
Yeah i think so, there are very good coaches in the game today... Pop, Sloan, Nate Mac are a few of my favorites. But 11 rings is untouchable now, I don't see any coach ever getting that many.

hugepatsfan
06-19-2010, 03:30 PM
no he is not the best. when you have the best player ever in MJ and then have shaq and kobe, and then have kobe and pau....yea....any schmuck with that kind of talent can win again and again and again. jackson is good at keeping players ego's in check, he's not the best coach ever, not even close. Larry Brown is a better coach than Phil. the only difference is Larry didn't have the the best players ever at their respective positions in play for him

That's not fair. Has the blessing of coahing MJ/Pippen, Shaq/Kobe, and Kobe/Pau been a huge reason for him winning rings? Absolutley. Anyone that can't acknowledge that fact has no credibility. If he coached great players instead of once in a generation players (although Pau fits into the 1st group) he would not have 11 rings. FACT. But if those great players had a lesser coach they would not have as many rings as they do. FACT.

LakeShowRaider
06-19-2010, 03:30 PM
Of course he is.

And so what are you people saying? Is he supposed to win with a bunch of sorry players?

Chicagofaithful
06-19-2010, 03:46 PM
FACT he is

Magic Bean Fury
06-19-2010, 03:55 PM
I personally think the best coach ever was most def Isiah Thomas.

hugepatsfan
06-19-2010, 03:58 PM
I personally think the best coach ever was most def Isiah Thomas.

As a coach, he was average. This isn't the best GM of all time thread.

pcrawley
06-19-2010, 04:00 PM
I never got to see Red Auerbach so I can't answer in full. Phil has made the most of every opportunity though and I think that's important. Life is full of people who can't capitalize on opportunities and Phil is NOT one of those guys. He always delivers.

gerber
06-19-2010, 04:02 PM
yes

hugepatsfan
06-19-2010, 04:03 PM
I never got to see Red Auerbach so I can't answer in full. Phil has made the most of every opportunity though and I think that's important. Life is full of people who can't capitalize on opportunities and Phil is NOT one of those guys. He always delivers.

Exactly how I feel. I'm only 18 so I can't even remember his Bulls tenure. I ws 6 when he won his 6th title there. I can't speak to the greatest of all time when my experience is so narrow.