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View Full Version : Kobe Bryant for Finals MVP? REALLY?



daleja424
06-18-2010, 08:24 AM
Im not sure who should have won the finals MVP, but awarding it to Kobe seemed a little fishy to me. Only Kobe or Lebron could go out in a must win championship game, absolutely stink it up, and still get awarded. Kobe Bryant shot 6 for 24 from the field (including at least 10 HORRIBLE shots). He did pretty much everything he could do to lose this game to Boston, and he still gets awarded as the MVP. I'm not sure I agree with this...

thoughts?

Mile High Champ
06-18-2010, 08:28 AM
Who deserved it more? Kobe was unreal throughout the whole series. He was easily the best player night in and night out. No one was even close to being considered for this other than him. He had 15 boards in game 7, how does that get overlooked? He deserved finals MVP... Who do you think should of won? Artest, Gasol? Please...

daleja424
06-18-2010, 08:35 AM
I think it is kinda sad that we had to award a finals MVP by default...

I know that Kobe was UNBELIEVABLE all series, but as of last night NONE of that mattered. It was a NEW, single elimination, series starting last night, and Kobe flat out CHOKED.

cubulls
06-18-2010, 08:37 AM
Are you serious? Kobe carried the whole damn team the whole series. You can't fault him for one bad offensive shooting performance which he clearly made up for on D, rebounds, and clutch free throws.

Mile High Champ
06-18-2010, 08:38 AM
I think it is kinda sad that we had to award a finals MVP by default...

I know that Kobe was UNBELIEVABLE all series, but as of last night NONE of that mattered. It was a NEW, single elimination, series starting last night, and Kobe flat out CHOKED.

You still have to win 4 games to win the series. Kobe was bang on in some capacity for every game. Game 7 his defense was solid and his rebounding was unreal. Not to mention when Kobe had to make a key shot in the last 4 mins, he hit it. When he needed to make a tough pass out of double team for a key laker score. He did it!

IAmKira
06-18-2010, 08:44 AM
Another idiot asking the same dam question. If u actually watch the whole series, u will know who deserves the MVP Of the series not MVP of GAME 7. Get ur head out of sum idiot's *** and start thinking correctly.

OG "Dee" LOCc
06-18-2010, 08:45 AM
Eh....kobe hit some shots in the fourth quarter

still the last 6 games were enough to give him the finals mvp

-Kobe24-TJ19-
06-18-2010, 08:48 AM
kobe averaged 30ppg

everyone else were under 20ppg

here's your answer

Burkey3472
06-18-2010, 08:56 AM
You don't win the MVP off one game (even if it's game 7 of the NBA finals. You win it by your play the whole series and without a doubt Kobe was the best player in those 7 games.

JordansBulls
06-18-2010, 08:56 AM
FWIW, Gasol led the Entire Playoffs in Win Shares.

stealth33
06-18-2010, 09:09 AM
I think it is kinda sad that we had to award a finals MVP by default...

I know that Kobe was UNBELIEVABLE all series, but as of last night NONE of that mattered. It was a NEW, single elimination, series starting last night, and Kobe flat out CHOKED.

Gasol had some of the more memorable/key plays of the game...but so did Artest. Game 7 was more of a team effort than anything. Kobe was struggling with his shot all night but he did exactly what he should have done in that situation: play good defense, rebound HARD, and he got to the line and got an impressive amount of 4th quarter points. Those FT's were not gifts...he just got aggressive and got to the line. He got those points by will. He just didn't do anything heroic but that is no reason to strip him of an MVP trophy.

As a neutral fan, it's kind of sad to see how many people want SO BADLY to see Kobe fail. I think this game/playoffs definitely seals the deal that he is NOT in Jordan territory(he just didn't show that dominance when it mattered), but some of the hate is a little ridiculous. He's the best player on his team and was the most important BY FAR in this series.

ManRam
06-18-2010, 09:10 AM
He was the best player for the whole Finals...so he deserved it. He did have some terrible games, and looked mortal very frequently, but who else do you give it to?

Winning again helped his legacy, but that was not a pretty win. It wasn't even close to being a Jordan-esque win either.

PrettyBoyJ
06-18-2010, 09:21 AM
yeah 1 game he didnt play so well.. But throughout the series his imprint was in every game.. You cant crown the Lakers Champs without Kobe, his will to win is what drives everyone in the Lakers locker room.. I dont see anyone else more deserving then Kobe

avelazq
06-18-2010, 09:32 AM
lol at ron artest " i wanna thank everyone in my hood " just for that ...refs should have made ppl sweep all the stuff off the floor and got on a speaker and said the NBA champions do to quote by artest are the BOSTON CELTICS ..

younggunn113
06-18-2010, 09:38 AM
Im not sure who should have won the finals MVP, but awarding it to Kobe seemed a little fishy to me. Only Kobe or Lebron could go out in a must win championship game, absolutely stink it up, and still get awarded. Kobe Bryant shot 6 for 24 from the field (including at least 10 HORRIBLE shots). He did pretty much everything he could do to lose this game to Boston, and he still gets awarded as the MVP. I'm not sure I agree with this...

thoughts?

Only Kobe or Lebron? I disagree strongly. Game 6 of the 1996 NBA finals, Jordan went 5-19 which is 26% went 11-12 from the line and finished with 22/9/7. Kobe went 6-24 25% went 11-15 from the line and finished 23/15/2. People have bad games, people just tend to put Jordan up on such high ground all the time the forget about games like this, much like people will do with Kobe 10-15 years from now. There were a few games were Jordan could have had a big performance but he didn't play well. People aren't immune to bad games, even the greatest has them.

Game 7 ECF 1998 9-25 10-15FT 28/9/8
Game 6 ECF 1993 8-24 8-9 FT 25/9/2
Game 6 ECF 1991 10-27 9-9 FT 29/8/8

These are just games from the years he won championships too. Listen I'm not saying Kobe is better than Jordan or anything of that nature, I'm just showing you that people have bad games. You just learn to forget them when the player is that great. I'm telling you 10 years from now when people talk about Kobe they're not going to say remember how poorly he shot in game 7 of his 5th championship. He played well in the first 6 games of the series. Who else should have gotten it? Pau shot 6-16 and disappeared at times in Boston.

pebloemer
06-18-2010, 09:39 AM
FWIW, Gasol led the Entire Playoffs in Win Shares.

I think a case could be made for Gasol with his overall playoff performance and big games 6 and 7.

ink
06-18-2010, 09:49 AM
Kobe's MVP was definitely by default.

It just shows how ridiculous some of the personal awards are in basketball. They couldn't really find a worthy INDIVIDUAL because both teams exemplified TEAM play.

When the trophy was handed to Kobe I didn't see any excitement or enthusiasm from anyone about the choice. He looked kind of embarrassed accepting the trophy.

ink
06-18-2010, 09:49 AM
I think a case could be made for Gasol with his overall playoff performance and big games 6 and 7.

:nod:

tr4shb0t
06-18-2010, 09:50 AM
the laker team shot like 32% or something. kobe didn't really choke. celtics had great defense and so did the lakers. no really a great shooting series for anyone on the perimeter. kobe got points when it mattered, he pulled down like 15+ rebounds, and had some crucial assists in the 4th.

coloradobuff
06-18-2010, 09:53 AM
he deserved with all rebs he got..

Supa
06-18-2010, 09:54 AM
Kobe has been the clear and leading top performer for much of the series. He was just having a bad shooting night on the last game, yet still coming up with 23 points and more importantly, 15 rebounds in a tough, defensive game. I think his Final MVP is well deserved.

For comparison, 15 rebounds are also the total rebounds of Garnett, Pierce, Allen combined.

---

nycsports2
06-18-2010, 09:58 AM
kobe def deserved it but maybe they shoulda gave it 2 him and artest if game 7 is all that matters.... Queens!!!! i wna thanks thehood and my phsyciatrist!!!! QB QB QB !!!!

nycsports2
06-18-2010, 09:59 AM
he deserved with all rebs he got..

great point dude was off so he rebounded all night... great player top 10 all time

miller74
06-18-2010, 09:59 AM
It just shows what kind of player he is that his teammates dug down deep to pick up Kobe who has carried them all season up to that point. And Kobe being the great player he is, knowing hes struggling he focused other parts of the game and had 15 boards

netsgiantsyanks
06-18-2010, 10:25 AM
i dont understand you people i mean he had a TERRIBLE shooting night and he still managed to score 20+ points he carried that team the whole series and last night when he realized his shot wasnt going he found different ways to carry that team to a nba championship like his 15 rebounds, his extra passes, and his free throws so, yes kobe deserved that finals MVP award

RipVW
06-18-2010, 10:34 AM
FWIW, Gasol led the Entire Playoffs in Win Shares.

Yeah, in the games that the Lakers won, it seemed like Gasol was more impactful. But in the other games, Kobe was more stalwart.

king4day
06-18-2010, 10:40 AM
Kobe was the best player in the finals. Even if Boston won, he probably was gonna get it.

Lakers4ItAll
06-18-2010, 10:41 AM
You are nuts Kobe had a great series. And in game 7 yes he had a bad shooting night but the rest of his game was on. 15 rebounds, 10 pts in the 4th, big free throws, and not to mention his ability to pass out of the double team. He was well deserving of the Finals MVP

Da Knicks
06-18-2010, 10:50 AM
Best player for the laker is Pau Gasol if you cant see that watch more basketball, my only problem is they built up kobe and kids watch the games. Not exactly the person I want kids to copy the game after, team basketball will always be my favorite.

ink
06-18-2010, 10:57 AM
This article puts it in context well:


“The more I tried to push,” Bryant said, “the more it kept getting away from me.”

After some bad shots and bad misses, Bryant had dissolved into a younger, far more cynical version of himself. He tried to do too much, digging himself deeper and deeper. When Bryant had wanted the magnitude of the moment to elevate him, it did the damndest thing for a long, long time: brought him to his knees.

“Pass the ball!” Phil Jackson barked in the Lakers huddles. “We’ve got to pass the ball.”

As the Celtics constructed a bigger and bigger lead, Bryant looked like a Vegas gambler trying to double down on his losses – only to lose again and again. The way Game 7 was going – the way that Bryant threatened to shoot these Lakers out of it – this magnificent playoff run threatened to end with a stain on him. Oh how Bryant would’ve been crucified for letting this championship slip away, letting these Celtics storm into the Staples Center and beat him twice in three years. Yes, Kobe was bleeping this up, and he would’ve never, ever been able to get over this one.

“You saw a determined Kobe Bryant who wanted to win,” Ron Artest(notes) said. “But it wasn’t with the team.”

Fifteen of his 20 shots had clanged off the rim before the start of the fourth quarter, and it was here that Derek Fisher(notes) grabbed him in the huddle. Here, Bryant realized there was a championship on the line – the death-grip that these Lakers and Celtics were locked in couldn’t survive his stubbornness, his hubris. Bryant had to accept that his shot was broken, that a storybook finish to his fifth title had been obliterated, and that he had to find a way to take Game 7 in a most unglamorous, unaesthetic way.

Yahoo Sports (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=Ahm_HZXPTsFSZZErdeMy7_O8vLYF?slug=aw-kobelakers061810)

Kobe salvaged a game yesterday more than anything else. It was one of the least impressive MVPs I've ever seen. It's great that he listened to his coach and teammates and made adjustments during the game, that shows talent, but it was not a memorable performance. Pretty lukewarm about it.

bmac_121
06-18-2010, 11:02 AM
I don't see how you can even argue that Kobe shouldn't have been MVP. He was clearly the best player out of both teams the entire series. 28/4/8

Black24Momba8
06-18-2010, 11:02 AM
Im not sure who should have won the finals MVP, but awarding it to Kobe seemed a little fishy to me. Only Kobe or Lebron could go out in a must win championship game, absolutely stink it up, and still get awarded. Kobe Bryant shot 6 for 24 from the field (including at least 10 HORRIBLE shots). He did pretty much everything he could do to lose this game to Boston, and he still gets awarded as the MVP. I'm not sure I agree with this...

thoughts?

its the finals MVP not final game MVP

Raidaz4Life
06-18-2010, 11:04 AM
Kobe completely shut down the Celtics best player all series and lead this team the entire time. Kobe is the heart and soul of the Lakers. They would not be anywhere near game 7 of the finals without him.

the keefster
06-18-2010, 11:05 AM
guys, cut kb24 some slack. his wife has put on a a few spicy chicken sandwiches in her cheeks over the past couple years. dude deserves some hardware for sticking with that chipmunk at the very least.

Klivlend
06-18-2010, 11:14 AM
Making the point, "Who else would you give it to?" is not a very strong argurment for Kobe to win MVP. I agree he deserves it, but it's kind of sad that is one of the stronger points for him to win the award. I just wish he wouldn't force up so many terrible shots, it's just bad basketball.

How mad would people be if Pau Gasol won the award? I don't think the Lakers win last night if he didn't show up.

Avenged
06-18-2010, 11:17 AM
I don't see why your so shocked on Kobe winning Finals MVP. :shrug:

Let's punish the guy for having a bad first 3 quarters for 1 game when he's showed up for every game in the Finals.

RaiderLakersA's
06-18-2010, 11:22 AM
I think it is kinda sad that we had to award a finals MVP by default...

I know that Kobe was UNBELIEVABLE all series, but as of last night NONE of that mattered. It was a NEW, single elimination, series starting last night, and Kobe flat out CHOKED.

You do realize that the Finals MVP is awarded for the SERIES and not just one game, don't you? Really, think before you hate.

Fool
06-18-2010, 11:51 AM
MVP of the series, not of game 7...

dbroncos78087
06-18-2010, 12:07 PM
I will confess to not having watched the other games except for game one, but Pau Gasol was the only one out there (maybe except for Artest) that i felt deserved the MVP after watching that game.

ink
06-18-2010, 12:08 PM
MVP of the series, not of game 7...

Like JB pointed out, there is an argument to be made for Gasol to have been the SERIES MVP based on higher win shares. So, it's a mistaken assumption to think that those that weren't that impressed with the choice are basing it on one game.

Hellcrooner
06-18-2010, 12:23 PM
funny


Pau was the bt player in games 1 6 an 7
KObe was the best palyer...welll the best scorer in games 2 4 and 5

Fisher was the best in game 3.


go check the results in thos tgames.

To say KObe has been the reason lakers won is completely blind.

ink
06-18-2010, 12:26 PM
Put it this way, where do the Celtics usually dominate? In the post. And in this series Gasol went toe to toe with one of the best frontcourts in the league and got the better of them. He was key to the championship. The guy does a thousand small things that don't show up on a scoring/stat sheet that make him outstanding.

shep33
06-18-2010, 12:30 PM
Kobe deserved it definitely, maybe not game 7 but he was the best player in the series no doubt for the first 6. When we watch game 7 Ron and Pau were the heroes for game 7.

This is why IMO Gasol isn't MVP...

-5 straight games against Boston in the Finals where he shot under 50%
-If you watched the SERIES and not just game 7 he got dominated in a couple of games by Kevin Garnett, who was considered by almost all of us here done. Even in game 7 KG went 8-13 for 17 points.


If you guys watched the series kobe was MVP of the series no question, because everybody was talking about him being the MVP even if they lost this game, so I don't understand how 1 game (which they won) changes any of that.

still1ballin
06-18-2010, 12:32 PM
funny


Pau was the bt player in games 1 6 an 7
KObe was the best palyer...welll the best scorer in games 2 4 and 5

Fisher was the best in game 3.


go check the results in thos tgames.

To say KObe has been the reason lakers won is completely blind.

Actually I don't think Pau nor Kobe were the best player in game 7. In the first half they were combined 6-26FG. It was Artest who kept them in the ball game in the first half and made some huge plays in the 2nd.

shep33
06-18-2010, 12:34 PM
Put it this way, where do the Celtics usually dominate? In the post. And in this series Gasol went toe to toe with one of the best frontcourts in the league and got the better of them. He was key to the championship. The guy does a thousand small things that don't show up on a scoring/stat sheet that make him outstanding.

I don't know about that to tell you the truth, the Celtics were one of the worst rebounding teams all season long. Garnett, Wallace, Davis had very inconsistent seasons offensively. They don't score a lot for the Celtics, it was mainly Rondo, Pierce, and Allen throughout the season who carried the scoring for them.

Defensively I agree with you about the Celtics bigs, the best in the biz, but the fact is they are a very poor rebounding team. With their size its inexcusable.

$KnicksAndKobe$
06-18-2010, 12:37 PM
Put it this way, where do the Celtics usually dominate? In the post. And in this series Gasol went toe to toe with one of the best frontcourts in the league and got the better of them. He was key to the championship. The guy does a thousand small things that don't show up on a scoring/stat sheet that make him outstanding.

Bnyum and Pau did very well against the Celtic frontcourt but they did get the Celtics to outrebound them which shouldn't happen.
And Fisher/Kobe shut down Ray Allen

Gasol missed A LOT of key free throws and did just as bad as kobe early in the game. Gasol had the better game but not by much. I still think Kobe was our most valuable player in the series and Gasol being our second most. If we are talking about game 7 then Artest was the best player.

People also tend to forget that it's the finals mvp, not the final game mvp, and to win the championship you need to win 4 games in the finals.
____

Also I want to say that just because people say Kobe deserved it more doesn't meen Gasol is crap compared to him in this series.

Without Kobe they would of gotten swept.
Without Gasol they would of gotten swept.

SouljahPhil...
06-18-2010, 12:37 PM
Haters will always hate...,

ink
06-18-2010, 12:37 PM
If you guys watched the series kobe was MVP of the series no question, because everybody was talking about him being the MVP even if they lost this game..

I watched and didn't agree with what they were saying at the time either. That's all they ever say anyway. Even before the series started they had the hero profiles all cued up to tell us how great he was. I get tired of TV producers hyping the same players over and over again regardless of how they play. I'd rather decide for myself and it wasn't a difficult choice to see that Kobe wasn't the best player on the floor in this series. The most famous? Yes. The one with the most hero profiles? Yes. A truly great player? Yes. The most valuable to his team in this series? Not really. I think it would have been great to see Pau finally get his due for what he has done for this franchise.

CowboysKB24
06-18-2010, 12:40 PM
He was the best player for the whole Finals...so he deserved it. He did have some terrible games, and looked mortal very frequently, but who else do you give it to?

Winning again helped his legacy, but that was not a pretty win. It wasn't even close to being a Jordan-esque win either.

Jordan had some ugly playoffs series too. And that game 7 was the most intense game in the last decade.

GSW Hoops
06-18-2010, 12:43 PM
Jordan had some ugly playoffs series too. And that game 7 was the most intense game in the last decade.

Magic had a few Finals bombs too. Happens to even the best players. But that's why the NBA is a team sport.

JasonJohnHorn
06-18-2010, 12:44 PM
Kobe reminded me of Latrell Spreewell on a bad shooting night last night. No, he was not shooting well, and yes, he was evening being a bit of a ball hog a points (not that Sprewell did that when he wasn't shooting well), but he busted his @$$ off on defence (look at Allen's numbers and the help he leant Artest keep Pierce out of the picture, and he was a work horse on the boards, so he still made a huge impact on the game to help the Lakers win. And four of those were offensive rebounds which gives his team second chance oprotunities with a full 24 seconds to set up a great play.

I'm not a Kobe fan AT ALL, but despite his poor shooting last night, he still made a huge impact for his team. I personally would have like to see Gasol get the MVP award, because he worked the board (18 last night) was passing the ball well (9 assists in the game 6 win), and was socring well the whole series (though not as much as Kobe). I honestly believe that Gasol was the most valuable player on the floor for the Lakers, but I would say Kobe "stunk it up" last night, or that he was deserving in some respects of the finals MVP award.

Gasol's rebounding, defence on Garnett, passing and scoring to me was the biggest factor in the Lakers pulling off this series. Artest handled the Pierce situation, and Kobe did a decent job on Allen most nights, but he also let him set a finals record on threes.

RaiderLakersA's
06-18-2010, 12:44 PM
If they had made Pau MVP, I would have been fine with it. Or even co-MVP. I am a Lakers fan first and foremost. The individual awards aren't life and death to me.

The fact is the Lakers as a team stepped up this series in ways that I hadn't seen before. I'm still stunned at how Fish saved our hide in game 3 and Artest in game 7. And then there is Bynum, who after practically earning the nickname Mr. Glass, gutted out that knee injury through the playoffs. Amazing.

For all of the flack that he gets, Kobe was also plagued by a laundry list of injuries. Still, he played, made no excuses, and hung in there for long minutes. When his shots weren't falling, he found another way to contribute. When he got tired -- and they all were late in the game, including some Celtics like Garnett (according to Doc's postgame interview) -- Kobe was out there trying to turn fumes into fuel. I think when the hype dies down and we look back at this with an unbiased lense, Kobe will probably be seen as the deserving MVP in most corners.

ink
06-18-2010, 12:46 PM
If they had made Pau MVP, I would have been fine with it. Or even co-MVP. I am a Lakers fan first and foremost. The individual awards aren't life and death to me.

The fact is the Lakers as a team stepped up this series in ways that I hadn't seen before. I'm still stunned at how Fish saved our hide early in game 3 and Artest in game 7. And then there is Bynum, who after practically earning the nickname Mr. Glass, gutted out that knee injury through the playoffs. Amazing.

For all of the flack that he gets, Kobe was also plagued by a laundry list of injuries. Still, he played, made no excuses, and hung in there for long minutes. When his shots weren't falling, he found another way to contribute. When he got tired -- and they all were late in the game, including some Celtics like Garnett (according to Doc's postgame interview) -- Kobe was out there trying to turn fumes into fuel. I think when the hype dies down and we look back at this with an unbiased lense, Kobe will probably be seen as the deserving MVP in most corners.

Good post. I still wish Pau had been given the award but you make a good a lot of good points there.

Raps18-19 Champ
06-18-2010, 12:48 PM
It's Finals MVP. Not best player on the deciding game.

So Kobe was the man throughout the 7 games.

But I agree with what you say that the finals MVP is pretty much given by default.

JordansBulls
06-18-2010, 12:50 PM
I watched and didn't agree with what they were saying at the time either. That's all they ever say anyway. Even before the series started they had the hero profiles all cued up to tell us how great he was. I get tired of TV producers hyping the same players over and over again regardless of how they play. I'd rather decide for myself and it wasn't a difficult choice to see that Kobe wasn't the best player on the floor in this series. The most famous? Yes. The one with the most hero profiles? Yes. A truly great player? Yes. The most valuable to his team in this series? Not really. I think it would have been great to see Pau finally get his due for what he has done for this franchise.

This.

This is why I said for the league it would have been better for the C's to win, simply because not one player on that team will get a significant amount of credit more than the other player. That essentially is how you want a team sport to be played.

tredigs
06-18-2010, 12:55 PM
He was the best player for the whole Finals...so he deserved it. He did have some terrible games, and looked mortal very frequently, but who else do you give it to?

Winning again helped his legacy, but that was not a pretty win. It wasn't even close to being a Jordan-esque win either.

Really? Who else? C'mon Man (ooh double meaning!), you give it to Pau if you give it to someone else. The guy is the reason why they went from a team that couldn't escape the first round to a team who has been in the finals all three seasons he's been there. Easily the most consistent player of the playoffs. And the fact that Kobe averaged more points (while taking 22 shots a game to Pau's 13) should only go to show that Kobe was taking entirely too many shots in some of these games and effectively shooting them out of games.

Overall, he was great -- but his good (but not great) performance in the finals accompanied by the fact that he was a ghost in the 4th quarter of every game, along with being abysmal in that game 7 should've earned Pau the nod. Pau is a complete equal to Kobe as far as being an absolutely crucial element to the teams success, and deserved the recognition this time around rather than giving it to their default guy (who hurt them in the biggest game of his career).


It's Finals MVP. Not best player on the deciding game.

So Kobe was the man throughout the 7 games.

But I agree with what you say that the finals MVP is pretty much given by default.

Entirely disagree -- Pau had one bad game in the finals, and that was one of his few poor games in the entire playoffs. He was their rock. And I agree with the guy up there who argued that he would be fine with a Co-MVP. I think that would have been very appropriate.

DCB/LAL
06-18-2010, 02:10 PM
Really? Who else? C'mon Man (ooh double meaning!), you give it to Pau if you give it to someone else. The guy is the reason why they went from a team that couldn't escape the first round to a team who has been in the finals all three seasons he's been there. Easily the most consistent player of the playoffs. And the fact that Kobe averaged more points (while taking 22 shots a game to Pau's 13) should only go to show that Kobe was taking entirely too many shots in some of these games and effectively shooting them out of games.

Overall, he was great -- but his good (but not great) performance in the finals accompanied by the fact that he was a ghost in the 4th quarter of every game, along with being abysmal in that game 7 should've earned Pau the nod. Pau is a complete equal to Kobe as far as being an absolutely crucial element to the teams success, and deserved the recognition this time around rather than giving it to their default guy (who hurt them in the biggest game of his career).



Entirely disagree -- Pau had one bad game in the finals, and that was one of his few poor games in the entire playoffs. He was their rock. And I agree with the guy up there who argued that he would be fine with a Co-MVP. I think that would have been very appropriate.



HAHAHA

Kobe DESERVED it no doubt this reminds me of an earlier convo where you said PAU was more iportant to the Lakers than Kobe because of his Win Shares and PER and that all you kept bringing up and then you were proven a fool becuase Andrew Bynums PER and Win Shares were nearly the exact same and there was no way you could put Bynum ahead of Kobe.......and now here you go again trying to discredit Kobe once again. :rolleyes:


Kobe deserved it no doubt most consistant.......the guy was in the CONVO OF WINNING IT EVEN IF THEY LOST!!

td0tsfinest
06-18-2010, 02:11 PM
Considering he was unreal in the rest of the series, I don't understand why he wouldn't have won it.

He was bad yesterday but for most of the series he carried his team.

JNA17
06-18-2010, 02:13 PM
games 1-6: kobe
game 7: ron artest.

No other explanation needed. Now quit the hating

kblo247
06-18-2010, 02:13 PM
Yeah. He was the best player in the series and guarded the guy who was said to be the Celtics best player in the playoffs.

Plus people who are disappointed looking at game 7 need to remember that Duncan once shot 10-27 in a game 7, and that MJ was 5-19 in the closeout in 96. The thing is that like them he found a way to help his team win and wasn't a dick about it. He gave credit to Pau and the guys for picking him up, which is the ultimate compliment from a guy who admittedly tries to take everything on himself at times.

For the he can never be the GLOAT - * Magic Johnson also got swept in the finals while shooting a worse percentage than Kobe. *

Kobe wasn't MJ. He isn't MJ. He will never be MJ. He is just Kobe and helped his team win to the best of his ability, and in doing so he was the best player for the series as a whole.

DCB/LAL
06-18-2010, 02:16 PM
Yeah. He was the best player in the series and guarded the guy who was said to be the Celtics best player in the playoffs.

Plus people who are disappointed looking at game 7 need to remember that Duncan once shot 10-27 in a game 7, and that MJ was 5-19 in the closeout in 96. The thing is that like them he found a way to help his team win and wasn't a dick about it. He gave credit to Pau and the guys for picking him up, which is the ultimate compliment from a guy who admittedly tries to take everything on himself at times.

* Magic Johnson also got swept in the finals while shooting a worse percentage than Kobe. *



None of that matters on PSD......posters just want to find a reason to discredit Kobe and thats all they have to hold on to.....its funny how many of them are the same ones said and almost guaranteed that LA WOULDN'T repeat.

Raps18-19 Champ
06-18-2010, 02:18 PM
Entirely disagree -- Pau had one bad game in the finals, and that was one of his few poor games in the entire playoffs. He was their rock. And I agree with the guy up there who argued that he would be fine with a Co-MVP. I think that would have been very appropriate.

Disagree with what?

I said the Finals MVP is pretty much has the name written on it already. Even you said that Gasol was the rock of the Lakers but the Finals MVP still went to Kobe.

hype707
06-18-2010, 02:19 PM
Im not sure who should have won the finals MVP, but awarding it to Kobe seemed a little fishy to me. Only Kobe or Lebron could go out in a must win championship game, absolutely stink it up, and still get awarded. Kobe Bryant shot 6 for 24 from the field (including at least 10 HORRIBLE shots). He did pretty much everything he could do to lose this game to Boston, and he still gets awarded as the MVP. I'm not sure I agree with this...

thoughts?

its more then what he did in game 7. best player on the team gets it everytime

Raps18-19 Champ
06-18-2010, 02:25 PM
its more then what he did in game 7. best player on the team gets it everytime

That's the point he's trying to make.

Why should it be the best player? Shouldn't it be the player who performed the best?

On that note, I do believe that Kobe deserved it and I'm not trying to defend the guy saying he should have won it but I get where he is coming from.

barbjake
06-18-2010, 02:37 PM
Game 7 ECF 1998 9-25 10-15FT 28/9/8
Game 6 ECF 1993 8-24 8-9 FT 25/9/2
Game 6 ECF 1991 10-27 9-9 FT 29/8/8



Sorry, but those are pretty good games. 2 are almost triple doubles. Kobe might as well have not played last night. It's still stupid to even compare Kobe to Jordan.

spurs21
06-18-2010, 02:43 PM
um i think u should know that the finals MVP is not evaluated from one game but the whole series and kobe scored at least more than 25 ppg throughout the series and was the leader of the team but u could say gasol deserved 40% .

ink
06-18-2010, 02:43 PM
its more then what he did in game 7. best player on the team gets it everytime

Best player on the Spurs is Tim Duncan. How do explain Tony Parker's MVP then? :confused:

Hellcrooner
06-18-2010, 02:45 PM
Best player on the Spurs is Tim Duncan. How do explain Tony Parker's MVP then? :confused:

Ducnan does not sell enough T-Shirts. so no need to force the issue.

Also
Ducnan wwhen he is no t shooting well and a teammate is playing beter deflects teh ball to hi,


KObe whenever is outscored in teh first three quarters by a teammmate takes as many shots as needed in order to end up being the higest scorer.
Wich someone ends up bign a loss.

Vidball
06-18-2010, 02:55 PM
Kobe is the reason the Lakers won games 1 and 6. He also shut down Rondo all series and got the team going defensively in game 3. Out of the 4 games the Lakers won, Kobe had the most impact BY FAR!

tredigs
06-18-2010, 02:56 PM
HAHAHA

Kobe DESERVED it no doubt this reminds me of an earlier convo where you said PAU was more iportant to the Lakers than Kobe because of his Win Shares and PER and that all you kept bringing up and then you were proven a fool becuase Andrew Bynums PER and Win Shares were nearly the exact same and there was no way you could put Bynum ahead of Kobe.......and now here you go again trying to discredit Kobe once again. :rolleyes:


Kobe deserved it no doubt most consistant.......the guy was in the CONVO OF WINNING IT EVEN IF THEY LOST!!

By nobody but delusional Laker fans or 16 yr olds without a modicum of understanding outside of the world of hype. You can discredit Pau all you want, but he is just as much a reason for this teams success as Kobe. You're a horrible poster, though (at least as it pertains to the Lakers) -- so I do not expect you to grasp this.

And I don't discredit Kobe what-so-ever. I give him his due, I just have an objective opinion on the guy and don't see a reason to make him the default MVP if Pau was just if not more deserving. And JNA, saying "Kobe was the best games 1-6" proves to me all I need that you aren't watching the game with an objective eye.

Hilarious to me how little credit so many Laker (Kobe) fans want to give Gasol. Without him you are still a run of the mill team. Give the guy some credit.

DCB/LAL
06-18-2010, 03:16 PM
By nobody but delusional Laker fans or 16 yr olds without a modicum of understanding outside of the world of hype. You can discredit Pau all you want, but he is just as much a reason for this teams success as Kobe. You're a horrible poster, though (at least as it pertains to the Lakers) -- so I do not expect you to grasp this.

And I don't discredit Kobe what-so-ever. I give him his due, I just have an objective opinion on the guy and don't see a reason to make him the default MVP if Pau was just if not more deserving. And JNA, saying "Kobe was the best games 1-6" proves to me all I need that you aren't watching the game with an objective eye.

Hilarious to me how little credit so many Laker (Kobe) fans want to give Gasol. Without him you are still a run of the mill team. Give the guy some credit.




Well everyone analysts, voters, hell even the players disagree with you.......but dont worry "I dont expect you to grasp this".

Hellcrooner
06-18-2010, 03:21 PM
Well everyone analysts, voters, hell even the players disagree with you.......but dont worry "I dont expect you to grasp this".

http://articles.latimes.com/2010/jun/17/sports/la-sp-dunleavy-finals-20100618


:rolleyes:

Raps18-19 Champ
06-18-2010, 03:25 PM
Well everyone analysts, voters, hell even the players disagree with you.......but dont worry "I dont expect you to grasp this".

While I do disagree with what he said and that he should at least be mentioned for Finals MVP, I agree with what he's trying to say. Lakers fans are too 'Broke Back Mountain' with Kobe on occasion for my taste.

Hellcrooner
06-18-2010, 03:29 PM
While I do disagree with what he said and that he should at least be mentioned for Finals MVP, I agree with what he's trying to say. KObe fans are too 'Broke Back Mountain' with Kobe on occasion for my taste.

Fixed

_KB24_
06-18-2010, 03:43 PM
Pau's defense can not be overlooked at. He was HORRIBLE the whole series. He let Ganrett come back from the dead and absolutely destroy the living hell out of him. JVG said it best, why was Gasol continuously fronting Garnett, every single game when KG had clearly taken advantage of the mismatch.

Kobe played great the whole Finals, minus a bad shooting night in Game 7. But he did everything ELSE amazingly. His defense and rebounding, pointed out by Phil, were unbeliveable. He dug deep and found a way to win. Screw the haters.

junion
06-18-2010, 03:53 PM
...because thread starter only sees points as a determining factor.

MVPs find ways to help your team when the shots aren't falling... REBOUNDS is one of them.

also throughout the whole series, kobe carried the whole team on his back, and in game 7, it was his team's turn - offensively.

FourtyFanatic
06-18-2010, 03:57 PM
Kobe played one bad game, the rest of his supporting cast had probably only one good game to match one of his.. Artest has a career night, Fisher another, Pau does great, and it's just routine for Kobe and he still has the better stats than all of them. I think it's safe to say Kobe deserved it.

tredigs
06-18-2010, 03:59 PM
While I do disagree with what he said and that he should at least be mentioned for Finals MVP, I agree with what he's trying to say. Lakers fans are too 'Broke Back Mountain' with Kobe on occasion for my taste.

You misread my post man. I agree that Kobe should absolutely be in the discussion, and said that I was fine with it being a Co-MVP award (and truth be told I don't even have a problem with him winning it, but the fact that many fans here are dismissing the fact that it is debatable at all is just pathetic/funny to me).

Also, Kobe fans keep hitting on the fact that his defense was "AMAZING". I must have missed this, because I thought he was good - not great - defensively. He averaged about ~2 steals a game and held Ray in check to an extent while he was on him (though really, Ray was just missing wide open shots at a point, it was sad) which is all well and good.

But on the other end he also turned the ball over 4 times a game - more than any player on either team.

No use in continuing to argue this with Kobe fanatics, as you will absolutely refuse to budge from your slobbering of the guy, but if you can't respect that this championship is as much due to Pau Gasol as it is Kobe, then you're just being blind to the obvious.

mlisica19
06-18-2010, 04:03 PM
This is the best of 7, i would have voted Kobe. He was the leader every game including yesterday.

He had over 20 points and 15 rebounds. No one else deserves it mnore and there is no way it was a default vote.

This is the PLAYOFF MVP, not Game 7 finals MVP.

If Kobe didnt play well Game 1, Game 3 and game 5 there would have been no game 7. Heck if he didnt play amazing in game 4, his team probably wouldnt have stepped up as good as they did in game 5 and destroy.

Kobe deserves this more than anyone else in the league, in the series and in the world.
He is truly the best player today

He may not be as skilled as Lebron... not as athletic, cant jump as high but the best player consists of being an overall good teammate, leader and being productive on the court no matter how you do it. ANd Kobe is the smartest player in the game today, and taht makes him the best player. Hense why he has won his 2nd back back to title since who? Jordan?

No he didnt do it by himself but he was the TRUE leader of his last 2 rings. Hes no jordan, ur right and hes fine with that cuz hes Kobe. He did everything eh wanted to do and hes not done yet

ChiSox219
06-18-2010, 04:07 PM
Gasol was the MVP of the series, no question about it if you add weight to the two elimination games.

ChiSox219
06-18-2010, 04:09 PM
This is the best of 7, i would have voted Kobe. He was the leader every game including yesterday.

He had over 20 points and 15 rebounds. No one else deserves it mnore and there is no way it was a default vote.

This is the PLAYOFF MVP, not Game 7 finals MVP.

If Kobe didnt play well Game 1, Game 3 and game 5 there would have been no game 7. Heck if he didnt play amazing in game 4, his team probably wouldnt have stepped up as good as they did in game 5 and destroy.

Kobe deserves this more than anyone else in the league, in the series and in the world.
He is truly the best player today

He may not be as skilled as Lebron... not as athletic, cant jump as high but the best player consists of being an overall good teammate, leader and being productive on the court no matter how you do it. ANd Kobe is the smartest player in the game today, and taht makes him the best player. Hense why he has won his 2nd back back to title since who? Jordan?

No he didnt do it by himself but he was the TRUE leader of his last 2 rings. Hes no jordan, ur right and hes fine with that cuz hes Kobe. He did everything eh wanted to do and hes not done yet

If Kobe was the smartest player in the league he would've had at least 10 dimes last night. Instead, he had more air-balls than assists.

Even Jeff Van Gundy recognized this and he's definitely not the sharpest tool in the shed.

ChiSox219
06-18-2010, 04:12 PM
By nobody but delusional Laker fans or 16 yr olds without a modicum of understanding outside of the world of hype. You can discredit Pau all you want, but he is just as much a reason for this teams success as Kobe. You're a horrible poster, though (at least as it pertains to the Lakers) -- so I do not expect you to grasp this.

And I don't discredit Kobe what-so-ever. I give him his due, I just have an objective opinion on the guy and don't see a reason to make him the default MVP if Pau was just if not more deserving. And JNA, saying "Kobe was the best games 1-6" proves to me all I need that you aren't watching the game with an objective eye.

Hilarious to me how little credit so many Laker (Kobe) fans want to give Gasol. Without him you are still a run of the mill team. Give the guy some credit.

Amen

njnets825
06-18-2010, 04:19 PM
Kobe's a hog and this series could've been so much easier for the Lakers if he just let everyone else get involved. the way they played in the4th quarter of gm 7, would've went that way the whole series if Kobe could just chill and play team ball. He carried this team during the series because he was the only one with the ball. of course his teammates were having tough times throughout the series, they barely ever got in rhythm. if all you do is play defense and stand around on offense while kobe iso's all game, how involved and how's your confidence gonna be? He saw what pau did in gm 1 and froze everyone out the rest of the series until that 4th quarter, when he realized he was gonna lose if he doesn't pass. it wasn't just gm 7 he took bad shots, it was every game besides game 1 and 4th quarter of gm 7. luckily for the lakers phil went to gasol to initiate the offense in that turnaround 4th quarter.

DCB/LAL
06-18-2010, 04:21 PM
Kobe bryant- 2010 FINALS MVP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ko8e24
06-18-2010, 05:30 PM
Kobe bryant- 2010 FINALS MVP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:worthy:

kblo247
06-18-2010, 05:40 PM
I find it funny people look to discredit Kobe when the other 3 guranteed HOF players on the court all came up small.

Pierce was 5-15 and got abused 1 on 1
KG watched as Pau grabbed 18 boards, Kobe grabbed 15, and responded back with 3
Allen went 4-14

Oh yeah Kobe was definitely the only one who choked out there in game 7 and whose legacy should be hurt people :laugh2:

kozelkid
06-18-2010, 05:53 PM
Jordan had some ugly playoffs series too. And that game 7 was the most intense game in the last decade.

Making stuff up doesn't make your point stronger.
Pretty much all of MJ's performances are in the top 10 or near top 10 for a reason. he got it done when it mattered. You find me one playoff series where MJ was poor.
Gasol deserved finals MVP and even Kobe knows it, which is why he couldn't stop crediting Gasol and was pretty much short of admitting it should have been Gasol's.

GspLAL
06-18-2010, 06:14 PM
Pau Gasol deserves discussion about it but fact is Kobe is the leader, without him getting triple teamed Pau Gasol can't get half of his shots. What hurt Gasol is the occasional disappearance acts, especially game 5.

kblo247
06-18-2010, 06:18 PM
Making stuff up doesn't make your point stronger.
Pretty much all of MJ's performances are in the top 10 or near top 10 for a reason. he got it done when it mattered. You find me one playoff series where MJ was poor.
Gasol deserved finals MVP and even Kobe knows it, which is why he couldn't stop crediting Gasol and was pretty much short of admitting it should have been Gasol's.

History is a *****!


MIN FGM-A FG% 3PM-A 3P% FTM-A FT% OFF DEF TOT STL BLK TO PF AST PTS

MJ-Supersonics 42.0 51-123 .415 6-19 .316 56-67 .836 1.7 3.7 5.3 4.2 1.7 0.17 3.0 2.8 27.3

Kobe-Celtics 41.3 66-163 .405 15-47 .319 53-60 .883 1.7 6.3 8.0 2.14 .71 3.86 3.86 3.9 28.6

The fact that those 2 Finals series are comparable be damned right?

EVER, GREATEST
06-18-2010, 06:22 PM
I think it is kinda sad that we had to award a finals MVP by default...

I know that Kobe was UNBELIEVABLE all series, but as of last night NONE of that mattered. It was a NEW, single elimination, series starting last night, and Kobe flat out CHOKED.

The Finals MVP goes to the player that was the best throughout the whole series, not just one game. Now if you're talking about fishy, how about when Tim Duncan won the award in 2005 when Manu Ginobili completely dominated that series.

Bishnoff
06-18-2010, 06:24 PM
Im not sure who should have won the finals MVP, but awarding it to Kobe seemed a little fishy to me. Only Kobe or Lebron could go out in a must win championship game, absolutely stink it up, and still get awarded. Kobe Bryant shot 6 for 24 from the field (including at least 10 HORRIBLE shots). He did pretty much everything he could do to lose this game to Boston, and he still gets awarded as the MVP. I'm not sure I agree with this...

thoughts?

Thread = fail. Kobe still averaged way more PPG than anyone else in the series and got something like 15 rebounds in Game 7. He was the only Laker to turn up in a lot of the games. Of course he deserves it.

GSW Hoops
06-18-2010, 06:31 PM
Thread = fail. Kobe still averaged way more PPG than anyone else in the series and got something like 15 rebounds in Game 7. He was the only Laker to turn up in a lot of the games. Of course he deserves it.

Some Kobe hater probably wants to give it to Sasha Vujacic.

Shark
06-18-2010, 06:40 PM
I think it is kinda sad that we had to award a finals MVP by default...

I know that Kobe was UNBELIEVABLE all series, but as of last night NONE of that mattered. It was a NEW, single elimination, series starting last night, and Kobe flat out CHOKED.

Seriously... You think he chocked? I am sorry but I watched the game, there was not one player who shot any better other then Garnett, but Garnett is a PF and most of hist shots come within the free throw area. Everyone had lots of emotions and trying to do too much, they were all trying so hard especially Kobe. Garnett had 3 Reb so by your 'arguement' of Kobe "choking" is it fair to say that Garnett chocked? At the end of the day, its a team effort, Kobe could not get the ball to fall and started being more aggressive on the boards, and trying to do the little things. Driving the net, getting the celtics in foul trouble, including 6th personal from Wallace that took him out of the puzzle. He is the MVP, and it could not be any more clear then that. Congrats Lakers

NBAfan4life
06-18-2010, 06:56 PM
People on this site have such short memories there was talk of giving kobe the mvp even if Boston won, even though that was a flawed argument that is what people and writers were discussing. now he goes for 23 and 15 and he does not deserve mvp get real

kozelkid
06-18-2010, 07:08 PM
History is a *****!


MIN FGM-A FG% 3PM-A 3P% FTM-A FT% OFF DEF TOT STL BLK TO PF AST PTS

MJ-Supersonics 42.0 51-123 .415 6-19 .316 56-67 .836 1.7 3.7 5.3 4.2 1.7 0.17 3.0 2.8 27.3

Kobe-Celtics 41.3 66-163 .405 15-47 .319 53-60 .883 1.7 6.3 8.0 2.14 .71 3.86 3.86 3.9 28.6

The fact that those 2 Finals series are comparable be damned right?

Not really...

Look at the fga. MJ shot better and LESS, a good 40 fga less. Kobe shot worse and shot more. Not to mention MJ got to the line more.
Good try though.
MJ had a ts% of .537, Kobe had a ts% of .529, it's a pretty big difference.
And finally, that's one case ever, while this isn't the first time for Kobe.

CowboysKB24
06-18-2010, 07:11 PM
Im not sure who should have won the finals MVP, but awarding it to Kobe seemed a little fishy to me. Only Kobe or Lebron could go out in a must win championship game, absolutely stink it up, and still get awarded. Kobe Bryant shot 6 for 24 from the field (including at least 10 HORRIBLE shots). He did pretty much everything he could do to lose this game to Boston, and he still gets awarded as the MVP. I'm not sure I agree with this...

thoughts?

Get real man. Kobe played terrible in game 7, but they still won. He had some great games against Boston. I don't know many players that have scored over 30 against Boston all year. They are the best at stopping the best players in the league. Give him credit for having great games.

Celtics held LBJ to 30 percent shooting in 2008. Boston is tough really tough.

Rocco007
06-18-2010, 07:24 PM
Im not sure who should have won the finals MVP, but awarding it to Kobe seemed a little fishy to me. Only Kobe or Lebron could go out in a must win championship game, absolutely stink it up, and still get awarded. Kobe Bryant shot 6 for 24 from the field (including at least 10 HORRIBLE shots). He did pretty much everything he could do to lose this game to Boston, and he still gets awarded as the MVP. I'm not sure I agree with this...

thoughts?
------------------------------------------------------

With exception of Kg 8-13..who the hell shot well?
Ray Allen 3-14
Pierce 5-15
Artest 7-18
Gasol 6-16
Bynum 1-5
Odom 3-8
This was a rough game...High intensity and the refs were letting them play...I think David Stern screwed UP...these teams were obviously gassed as well...This game should have been played tonight on 3 days rest...Kobe did what he had to do to gut this out...He knew whoever won the rebounding game would have a great chance of winning...So he hit the boards...
Haters will hate....
Players will Play...
and
The Greatest WIN RINGS...

kblo247
06-18-2010, 07:38 PM
------------------------------------------------------

With exception of Kg 8-13..who the hell shot well?
Ray Allen 3-14
Pierce 5-15
Artest 7-18
Gasol 6-16
Bynum 1-5
Odom 3-8
This was a rough game...High intensity and the refs were letting them play...I think David Stern screwed UP...these teams were obviously gassed as well...This game should have been played tonight on 3 days rest...Kobe did what he had to do to gut this out...He knew whoever won the rebounding game would have a great chance of winning...So he hit the boards...
Haters will hate....
Players will Play...
and
The Greatest WIN RINGS...

Thank you.

Why isn't anyone getting on KG for grabbing only 3 rebounds in the biggest game of his life? The only starters who grabbed less were Fisher and Allen.

sventhedog
06-18-2010, 07:40 PM
i don't even know what people are arguing about. it's pretty clear that it's the "finals mvp" not the "game 1 mvp" "game 2 mvp" or "game 7 mvp." can it get any clearer than that? even kobe haters can see that.

evadatam5150
06-18-2010, 07:45 PM
Im not sure who should have won the finals MVP, but awarding it to Kobe seemed a little fishy to me. Only Kobe or Lebron could go out in a must win championship game, absolutely stink it up, and still get awarded. Kobe Bryant shot 6 for 24 from the field (including at least 10 HORRIBLE shots). He did pretty much everything he could do to lose this game to Boston, and he still gets awarded as the MVP. I'm not sure I agree with this...

thoughts?

The MVP award is an award won through out the course of the entire Finals and not just one game.. There can and always will be others who deserve consideration, I don't think anyone can deny that.. But if you look at the entire series it's hard to deny that Kobe earned it.. Sure he had a terrible shooting night but look at what else he did.. Dude played basketball, drew double teams, 15 rebounds, opened shots for other players.. If the other players are down with Kobe winning it, which they are if you listen to the interviews, then who are we to question it..

kozelkid
06-18-2010, 07:45 PM
Thank you.

Why isn't anyone getting on KG for grabbing only 3 rebounds in the biggest game of his life? The only starters who grabbed less were Fisher and Allen.

No one is calling them MVPs either.
And once again, Gasol has been good in pretty much everyone of Laker's wins. Like I said before, even Kobe pretty much knows it.

ARMIN12NBA
06-18-2010, 07:46 PM
Kobe averaged 28/8/4. He played brilliant defensively all series long. He had a poor shooting night, but came up huge on defense and on the boards with 15 rebounds! Do you realize how much 15 rebounds is and especially for a guard?

madiaz3
06-18-2010, 07:46 PM
Not really...

Look at the fga. MJ shot better and LESS, a good 40 fga less. Kobe shot worse and shot more. Not to mention MJ got to the line more.
Good try though.
MJ had a ts% of .537, Kobe had a ts% of .529, it's a pretty big difference.
And finally, that's one case ever, while this isn't the first time for Kobe.

What?
MJ shot 1 percent better. Shot 40 less but Kobe made 15 more which is good for their overall FG% anyway. .537 and .529 is NOT a big difference what are you talking about? It's a complete joke and nothing but homerism for you to consider it a pretty big difference.

kozelkid
06-18-2010, 07:49 PM
The MVP award is an award won through out the course of the entire Finals and not just one game.. There can and always will be others who deserve consideration, I don't think anyone can deny that.. But if you look at the entire series it's hard to deny that Kobe earned it.. Sure he had a terrible shooting night but look at what else he did.. Dude played basketball, drew double teams, 15 rebounds, opened shots for other players.. If the other players are down with Kobe winning it, which they are if you listen to the interviews, then who are we to question it..

What do you expect the players to say?
"**** you Kobe, I should of got it!"?
No one is saying Kobe sucks, or if they are then, they're crazy. However, Gasol was much more consistent and was more to their success. He only had one real bad game. Kobe on the other hand had at least 2 (game 3 and game 7, and yet Lakers still win), while Kobe's best games are in a losing effort. Personally, I think that's very telling.

evadatam5150
06-18-2010, 07:49 PM
I think it is kinda sad that we had to award a finals MVP by default...

I know that Kobe was UNBELIEVABLE all series, but as of last night NONE of that mattered. It was a NEW, single elimination, series starting last night, and Kobe flat out CHOKED.

At this point you're just hating to hate and no sense can be made for you.. The rules of SERIES MVP don't just automatically change to ONE game MVP because you're ignorant.. Series MVP is a body of work and not just a games worth.. :facepalm:

ARMIN12NBA
06-18-2010, 07:50 PM
Not really...

Look at the fga. MJ shot better and LESS, a good 40 fga less. Kobe shot worse and shot more. Not to mention MJ got to the line more.
Good try though.
MJ had a ts% of .537, Kobe had a ts% of .529, it's a pretty big difference.
And finally, that's one case ever, while this isn't the first time for Kobe.

No it isn't. .8 is nothing. And of course MJ shot less. That series went 6 games and they went up 3-0. That series was over. This Lakers-Celtics series went 7 games and it was hotly contested so Kobe was needed to take more shots.

kozelkid
06-18-2010, 07:51 PM
What?
MJ shot 1 percent better. Shot 40 less but Kobe made 15 more which is good for their overall FG% anyway. .537 and .529 is NOT a big difference what are you talking about? It's a complete joke and nothing but homerism for you to consider it a pretty big difference/.

I don't think it is.
For one, MJ shot less when he was shooting poorly and looked to do other things vs kobe. Can't say I saw the same thing from kobe in game 7 who continued to jack shots, many of them being poor as well.
MJ shot a good 3 fga less than kobe per game. That's a HUGE difference in a close series like this.

kozelkid
06-18-2010, 07:53 PM
No it isn't. .8 is nothing. And of course MJ shot less. That series went 6 games and they went up 3-0. That series was over. This Lakers-Celtics series went 7 games and it was hotly contested so Kobe was needed to take more shots.

Or it's called passing more if you are having on off night instead of continuing to shoot more.
Hell, the fact that Lakers went on their biggest run when Kobe was out is also very telling. He was hurting the Lakers in game 7. Meanwhile, Odom, Gasol, Vujacic, Farmar were HUGE. Be more of a facilitator then. Can't say I saw much of that yesterday.
All in all, I'm just amazed that so many Laker fans are in unison about Kobe being the clear MVP, and not Gasol.

hgtiger32
06-18-2010, 07:56 PM
man im going to keep a running total of posts that after reading, convince me PSD needs a Sports IQ test...#1

evadatam5150
06-18-2010, 08:01 PM
Like JB pointed out, there is an argument to be made for Gasol to have been the SERIES MVP based on higher win shares. So, it's a mistaken assumption to think that those that weren't that impressed with the choice are basing it on one game.

For the exception that those are the same people stating that Kobe had a terrible game and therefor didn't deserve the MVP..

Listen, the Lakers won the Championship and Kobe deservedly won the MVP.. Fact is that Kobe haters will always hate Kobe no matter what he does or accomplishes.. Sad truth is dudes has now won 5 Championships and all the haters are still out there attempting to tarnish his greatness.. It's pretty damn sad no matter how you attempt to justify or mask your disdain for a player who pretty much did everything asked of him this season in order to win a Championship..

SugeKnight
06-18-2010, 08:04 PM
Its finals MVP, not game 7 MVP

kozelkid
06-18-2010, 08:05 PM
For the exception that those are the same people stating that Kobe had a terrible game and therefor didn't deserve the MVP..

Listen, the Lakers won the Championship and Kobe deservedly won the MVP.. Fact is that Kobe haters will always hate Kobe no matter what he does or accomplishes.. Sad truth is dudes has now won 5 Championships and all the haters are still out there attempting to tarnish his greatness.. It's pretty damn sad no matter how you attempt to justify or mask your disdain for a player who pretty much did everything asked of him this season in order to win a Championship..

Why though?
I don't think anyone here has a problem with Kobe winning finals mvp last year. He was a stud and was the obvious pick with no close second.
This year though? Gasol was more consistent.
I really don't get why Laker fans are so defensive about another player on the Lakers being Finals MVP instead of Kobe.

GspLAL
06-18-2010, 08:14 PM
Or it's called passing more if you are having on off night instead of continuing to shoot more.
Hell, the fact that Lakers went on their biggest run when Kobe was out is also very telling. He was hurting the Lakers in game 7. Meanwhile, Odom, Gasol, Vujacic, Farmar were HUGE. Be more of a facilitator then. Can't say I saw much of that yesterday.
All in all, I'm just amazed that so many Laker fans are in unison about Kobe being the clear MVP, and not Gasol.

Kobe did shoot too much in the first half but if you don't think he got his teammates involved in the second half you're crazy. His assists don't rack up because the ball usually gets passed one more time after he gives it up but point is he breaks down the defense and doesn't even get credit for it.

GspLAL
06-18-2010, 08:15 PM
For the exception that those are the same people stating that Kobe had a terrible game and therefor didn't deserve the MVP..

Listen, the Lakers won the Championship and Kobe deservedly won the MVP.. Fact is that Kobe haters will always hate Kobe no matter what he does or accomplishes.. Sad truth is dudes has now won 5 Championships and all the haters are still out there attempting to tarnish his greatness.. It's pretty damn sad no matter how you attempt to justify or mask your disdain for a player who pretty much did everything asked of him this season in order to win a Championship..

The fact that people even talk about him not being better than MJ is a compliment in itself, think about that. :D

still1ballin
06-18-2010, 08:20 PM
Its amazing how people continue to hate on this guy.

ARMIN12NBA
06-18-2010, 08:48 PM
Or it's called passing more if you are having on off night instead of continuing to shoot more.
Hell, the fact that Lakers went on their biggest run when Kobe was out is also very telling. He was hurting the Lakers in game 7. Meanwhile, Odom, Gasol, Vujacic, Farmar were HUGE. Be more of a facilitator then. Can't say I saw much of that yesterday.
All in all, I'm just amazed that so many Laker fans are in unison about Kobe being the clear MVP, and not Gasol.

Kobe had a bad shooting night. Big deal. Jordan had a 3-18 shooting night IIRC. Look, if Kobe just stops shooting and stop being aggressive, then the Celtics will stop pressuring him and garnering all their attention on him, which would give less open looks to Kobe's teammates. Kobe's job is to activate the ball and stay aggressive. My problem was some of the shots he took and not necessarily that he kept taking shots.

Gasol simply did not deserve Finals MVP. He didn't show up on the road and to be considered the absolute best for your team, then you have to show up on the road. 28/8/4 are great numbers from Kobe as well as his brilliant defense. Look, kozelkid, I understand you don't like Kobe, but considering that Gasol had quite a few weak games and his defense was porous against KG after Game 2 makes it so that Kobe is the clear cut Finals MVP. Kobe was brilliant on the defensive end and that should not be ignored (I do understand your plight being an ESPN highlight baby though so it is hard to even be conscious about defensive play).

daleja424
06-18-2010, 08:54 PM
I am not hating. I really am not. I feel that it is a problem with the system that we are so superstar oriented. I know he had a great series (until last night), but I dont understand what is so difficult to understand about the points I am trying to make:

1. Game 7 SHOULD hold more weight. Championship on the line, champions step up.

2. I think an argument could have been made for at least co-MVPs.

and in response to a couple of you posters. I know that garnett, pierce, and allen also stunk it up last night, but none of those guys are even on the same planet talent wise as kobe. Kobe undoubtedly choked last night. I know there is more to the game then shooting, but someone should have told Kobe that. Kobe took A TON of fadeaways over double teams. Dude should have been racking up the dimes instead of piling up on missed FGAs.

Vidball
06-18-2010, 09:01 PM
I don't even think Pau was the most valuable Laker in any of the 7 games. Even in the 4 wins...Kobe was the most valuable by far with what he did controlling the offense, drawing doubles, and getting his teammates going in games 1, 3, and 6 (although Fisher was very valuable in game 3 with the pick n' rolls he was running with Kobe). Game 7, Artest is the man that kept them afloat. 20 points, 5 steals, the clinching shot with under 2 minutes to go, and he kept Pierce in check all game. The only way Boston would have won game 7 is if Pierce went off.

Anyways, hope all the haters are enjoying the Lakers dominance predicted by the L.A. "homer" fans. Guess we were right all along. Time for another 3-Peat!!!

ARMIN12NBA
06-18-2010, 09:16 PM
I am not hating. I really am not. I feel that it is a problem with the system that we are so superstar oriented. I know he had a great series (until last night), but I dont understand what is so difficult to understand about the points I am trying to make:

1. Game 7 SHOULD hold more weight. Championship on the line, champions step up.

2. I think an argument could have been made for at least co-MVPs.

and in response to a couple of you posters. I know that garnett, pierce, and allen also stunk it up last night, but none of those guys are even on the same planet talent wise as kobe. Kobe undoubtedly choked last night. I know there is more to the game then shooting, but someone should have told Kobe that. Kobe took A TON of fadeaways over double teams. Dude should have been racking up the dimes instead of piling up on missed FGAs.

I think a choke would be a player completely wilting in the moment. Kobe realized his shot was off so he decided to dominate in other aspects of the game. He rebounded like a beast and played brilliant defense. A choke would have Kobe looking like a puppy and not going ferociously after every board and giving 100% on defense. Also, Kobe began to control the offense in the 2nd half. He was directing the offense into the low-post and getting the players in the right spots to execute.

smith&wesson
06-18-2010, 09:28 PM
Im not sure who should have won the finals MVP, but awarding it to Kobe seemed a little fishy to me. Only Kobe or Lebron could go out in a must win championship game, absolutely stink it up, and still get awarded. Kobe Bryant shot 6 for 24 from the field (including at least 10 HORRIBLE shots). He did pretty much everything he could do to lose this game to Boston, and he still gets awarded as the MVP. I'm not sure I agree with this...

thoughts?

my man, are you only considering the last game or the whole series ??

GspLAL
06-18-2010, 09:29 PM
I am not hating. I really am not. I feel that it is a problem with the system that we are so superstar oriented. I know he had a great series (until last night), but I dont understand what is so difficult to understand about the points I am trying to make:

1. Game 7 SHOULD hold more weight. Championship on the line, champions step up.

2. I think an argument could have been made for at least co-MVPs.

and in response to a couple of you posters. I know that garnett, pierce, and allen also stunk it up last night, but none of those guys are even on the same planet talent wise as kobe. Kobe undoubtedly choked last night. I know there is more to the game then shooting, but someone should have told Kobe that. Kobe took A TON of fadeaways over double teams. Dude should have been racking up the dimes instead of piling up on missed FGAs.

He choked? Choking is when you disappear and want no part of the game, choking is when you need to make your free throws in the 4th quarter and you don't. Kobe had 10 points in the 4th including an important fade away to put LA up by 4, not to mention he was making himself be effective in different ways (rebounding, defense). Is that not what champions do? Find a way to win?

NYMetros
06-18-2010, 09:33 PM
Only Kobe or Lebron? I disagree strongly. Game 6 of the 1996 NBA finals, Jordan went 5-19 which is 26% went 11-12 from the line and finished with 22/9/7. Kobe went 6-24 25% went 11-15 from the line and finished 23/15/2. People have bad games, people just tend to put Jordan up on such high ground all the time the forget about games like this, much like people will do with Kobe 10-15 years from now. There were a few games were Jordan could have had a big performance but he didn't play well. People aren't immune to bad games, even the greatest has them.

Game 7 ECF 1998 9-25 10-15FT 28/9/8
Game 6 ECF 1993 8-24 8-9 FT 25/9/2
Game 6 ECF 1991 10-27 9-9 FT 29/8/8

These are just games from the years he won championships too. Listen I'm not saying Kobe is better than Jordan or anything of that nature, I'm just showing you that people have bad games. You just learn to forget them when the player is that great. I'm telling you 10 years from now when people talk about Kobe they're not going to say remember how poorly he shot in game 7 of his 5th championship. He played well in the first 6 games of the series. Who else should have gotten it? Pau shot 6-16 and disappeared at times in Boston.

On the whole Jordan had MANY less bad playoff games than Kobe's had (if that makes sense).

Kobe's had 30 playoff games in which he's shot 35% or less from the field (out of 198 career playoff games).

Jordan had 9 playoff games in his entire playoff career that he shot 35% or less in (out of 179 career playoff games).

So yeah. Jordan had bad games. Just not very often. Kobe has those "stinker" games almost 3x as often as Jordan did.

Let's just stop comparing the two. :) There's never gonna be another Jordan, he's the best ever.

Oh yeah, and I agree with Kobe getting the MVP award. No one else deserved it.

GspLAL
06-18-2010, 09:40 PM
On the whole Jordan had MANY less bad playoff games than Kobe's had (if that makes sense).

Kobe's had 30 playoff games in which he's shot 35% or less from the field (out of 198 career playoff games).

Jordan had 9 playoff games in his entire playoff career that he shot 35% or less in (out of 179 career playoff games).

So yeah. Jordan had bad games. Just not very often. Kobe has those "stinker" games almost 3x as often as Jordan did.

Let's just stop comparing the two. :) There's never gonna be another Jordan, he's the best ever.

I don't think any Laker fan at this point is saying Kobe is better than MJ, it's just stupid people who make threads like this to rain on his parade.

kblo247
06-18-2010, 09:52 PM
I don't think any Laker fan at this point is saying Kobe is better than MJ, it's just stupid people who make threads like this to rain on his parade.

This x 1000

I have never said Kobe is better than MJ. Hell Kobe himself has never said he is as good as or better than MJ; in fact he admits to learning 90% of what he knows from Michael.

I don't get the heat between Kobe fans and MJ fans. Well, to a degree I do as some Kobe fans are WAY OVER THE TOP to offset the hate and some MJ fans can never admit that he had faults due to HERO WORSHIP but oh well I guess we all have to live with it :o

kblo247
06-18-2010, 09:53 PM
I am not hating. I really am not. I feel that it is a problem with the system that we are so superstar oriented. I know he had a great series (until last night), but I dont understand what is so difficult to understand about the points I am trying to make:

1. Game 7 SHOULD hold more weight. Championship on the line, champions step up.

2. I think an argument could have been made for at least co-MVPs.

and in response to a couple of you posters. I know that garnett, pierce, and allen also stunk it up last night, but none of those guys are even on the same planet talent wise as kobe. Kobe undoubtedly choked last night. I know there is more to the game then shooting, but someone should have told Kobe that. Kobe took A TON of fadeaways over double teams. Dude should have been racking up the dimes instead of piling up on missed FGAs.

You say this all with a Beasley sig. Ironic don't you think?

blams
06-18-2010, 10:00 PM
It's a series MVP not game 7 mvp :facepalm:

footballer2369
06-18-2010, 10:20 PM
You say this all with a Beasley sig. Ironic don't you think?

...uh....no....

definitely low on the irony scale...

Truheatfan
06-18-2010, 10:24 PM
gasol was mvp to me he got a **** load rebounds deflected and blocked alot of shots and was the best big man in the series

ARMIN12NBA
06-18-2010, 10:37 PM
Kobe: 28/8/4 on 40% shooting. Brilliant defense, initiated the Triangle, leadership, and garnered all the attention from the Celtics defense to open up the floor for others.

Pau: 19/12/4 on 48% shooting. Average to poor defense.

Give me Kobe for Finals MVP all day. Pau was still a baller though, but he has to show up on the road and he simply does not bring the other intangibles that Kobe brings to the table. His defense needs to improve as well.

daleja424
06-18-2010, 11:50 PM
You say this all with a Beasley sig. Ironic don't you think?


...uh....no....

definitely low on the irony scale...


I, too, fail to see the irony...

ARMIN12NBA
06-19-2010, 12:10 AM
Doc Rivers: Do you guy realize all the other Lakers are open because there are usually three guys on Kobe?

:laugh: I hate how many ignorant fans and media members completely ignore that the Celtics strategy and focus is to shut down the top player and make others beat them. Kobe was fantastic this series with 28/8/4 and nobody can objectively say otherwise.

static_inferno
06-19-2010, 12:19 AM
he's the MVP of the SERIES, not just ONE game.

Antbanks21
06-19-2010, 01:03 AM
Im not sure who should have won the finals MVP, but awarding it to Kobe seemed a little fishy to me. Only Kobe or Lebron could go out in a must win championship game, absolutely stink it up, and still get awarded. Kobe Bryant shot 6 for 24 from the field (including at least 10 HORRIBLE shots). He did pretty much everything he could do to lose this game to Boston, and he still gets awarded as the MVP. I'm not sure I agree with this...

thoughts?

well then you choose..

Finals Averages
Kobe 28.6pts 8rbs 4ast 2stls 40%
Gasol 18.6pts 11.60rbs 3.7ast 2.57blks 47%
Artest 10.6pts 4.60rbs 1.3ast 1.43stl 36%
Fisher 8.6pts 3rbs 2ast .86stls 42%

having 1 horrible performance or an outstanding 1, shouldn't dictate whether you should get the Finals MVP award or not

Antbanks21
06-19-2010, 01:03 AM
he's the MVP of the SERIES, not just ONE game.

:clap::clap:

hugepatsfan
06-19-2010, 01:08 AM
Am I the only one that wasn't overly impressed with Gasol after game 2? I thought KG was better than Gasol overall from games 3-7. I know you can't just erase two games, but when you lose your overall position matchup in games 3-7 I don't think you can be MVP.

lakerboy
06-19-2010, 01:12 AM
Jealous Wade fans. Tsk tsk

ink
06-19-2010, 01:24 AM
Well, it was an OK thread to start with but it got pretty homerish, so looks like it's done.

Let's put it this way, if the thread is left open for this long it means that we want the topic to be taken seriously and don't expect people just to keep insulting the OP, directly or indirectly.