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View Full Version : win or lose Kobe finals MVP ?



thescore53
06-14-2010, 03:00 PM
i heard guys talking about and it's also being discussed on espn..

win or lose kobe can still win the finals mvp ... do you know how messed up it would be to accept finals mvp after losing on your home court he's a winner but mostly he'll be a loser

kblo247
06-14-2010, 03:02 PM
Besides with West has that ever happened before?

ko8e24
06-14-2010, 03:02 PM
1969 NBA Finals, Lakers lose to Celtics in a game 7 on the Laker home floor, and Finals MVPs was the Lakers Jerry West. It happened before.

But the difference this yr, the Lakers will actually win a game 7 on their own home floor this time around, with a Laker (Kobe) getting the Finals MVP. :)

RipVW
06-14-2010, 03:03 PM
I think its up in the air and wouldnt rule Kobe out even if the Lakers lose the series. He's probably been the most consistent performer, which isnt saying much,... but nevertheless.

Kakaroach
06-14-2010, 03:04 PM
Probably not. I don't see him beating out any of Rondo, Pierce, or even Garnett if the Celtics win.

Avenged
06-14-2010, 03:04 PM
I wouldn't want Kobe to win Finals MVP if he doesn't win the championship.

But who would get it for Boston? Different players have showed up for them for different games unless they do a Co-MVP with all the Celtics players. :laugh2:

Hawkeye15
06-14-2010, 03:06 PM
that would be totally messed up if he won it and the lakers lost.

bigsams50
06-14-2010, 03:07 PM
The only way Kobe wins Finals MVP if they lose IMO is if the series goes 7 games and Kobe goes off.

Sly Guy
06-14-2010, 03:07 PM
boston->rondo
LA->kobe.

simple as that.

RipVW
06-14-2010, 03:08 PM
Besides with West has that ever happened before?

No.

http://www.nba.com/history/finalsmvps.html


1969 -- Jerry West, Los Angeles
Averaged 30.9 points, 3.9 rebounds and 7.5 assists in 18 playoff games as the Lakers lost to the Boston Celtics, 4-3. West has been the only NBA Finals MVP to play for a losing team.

AI4MVP
06-14-2010, 03:08 PM
hellllll no

RipVW
06-14-2010, 03:09 PM
that would be totally messed up if he won it and the lakers lost.

Why? Who would the MVP for the Celtics be?

gbpackers12
06-14-2010, 03:11 PM
I suppose it could happen, but I don't think it will. I think Rondo has played enough good basketball to win the MVP if the Celtics win.

ManRam
06-14-2010, 03:12 PM
He won't deserve it if they don't win.

He's shooting 42.5% and 38% from three. Not mind-blowing enough to warrant a losing Finals MVP. 30, 6 and 4.5 are nice numbers, but again, not mind-blowing enough to win it as a loser. His 4.2 TOs don't help either.

Depending on who plays best for Boston in the clincher (just assuming it happens), Rondo or Pierce will win it.

Hawkeye15
06-14-2010, 03:13 PM
Why? Who would the MVP for the Celtics be?

probably co-mvp's with Rondo, and whomever has a great game or two between Pierce and KG over the next 2
I just don't think the losing team should have the finals MVP, sorry

ko8e24
06-14-2010, 03:17 PM
Why? Who would the MVP for the Celtics be?

Tom Thibodeau

jackdawson
06-14-2010, 03:18 PM
No way Kobe gets it if the Lakers lose. Not happening. It will go to the celtics' best player in that case no matter how good kobe has been.

RipVW
06-14-2010, 03:24 PM
Tom Thibodeau

I thought about saying that but everyone would have just said Im being a homer.

I agree though that, it seems like he's having a huge impact. The Lakers had 11 games in a row of going over 100 pts. Now, for 4 games in a row, they havent.

mikantsass
06-14-2010, 03:24 PM
It depends what happens in game 6 (and game 7 if it goes that far). If the Lakers win the series no doubt Kobe will get MVP. But if the celtics win it depends who steps up in game 6 (and game 7 if it goes that far). If pierce/rondo/kg has another good game or 2 then it will go to one of them.

Rivera
06-14-2010, 03:24 PM
real talk besides last night

big baby has been the most consistent celtic


but honestly their gonna give it to either Rondo or Pierce or KG it depends who comes up the biggest if/when BOSTON closes this out

topdog
06-14-2010, 03:25 PM
If you have to give it to Ainge or to the Celtics bench. I know that nobody has really consistently stood out, but I don't see how you can give a most valuable player award to a guy who didn't win - the argument is that maybe he put up the stats but didn't make the team thing work.

Klivlend
06-14-2010, 03:27 PM
If the Lakers win, obviously Kobe will win MVP. If the Celtics win, it will just depend on who has a bigger game(s) in L.A., Rondo or Pierce.

miller74
06-14-2010, 03:34 PM
no way, if he didnt win how was he that VALUABLE?

RadiantShot
06-14-2010, 03:36 PM
1969 NBA Finals, Lakers lose to Celtics in a game 7 on the Laker home floor, and Finals MVPs was the Lakers Jerry West. It happened before.

But the difference this yr, the Lakers will actually win a game 7 on their own home floor this time around, with a Laker (Kobe) getting the Finals MVP. :)

No.

97NYer
06-14-2010, 03:52 PM
It would never happen.

shep33
06-14-2010, 03:55 PM
I'm a Laker fan, and I don't think he should get if they lose. I mean unless it goes 7 and he puts in two ridiculous games then maybe, but the winning team should always get it.

fadedmario
06-14-2010, 04:06 PM
nope. it will be rondo if the lakers lose. he's been the celtics most valuable player in the finals.

Boston Faithful
06-14-2010, 04:52 PM
Kobe hasn't even played well. His shooting percentages and turnover rate are horrendous. He had one good second half, that's it. This is such a stupid post.

ManRam
06-14-2010, 05:08 PM
nope. it will be rondo if the lakers lose. he's been the celtics most valuable player in the finals.

If Paul Pierce repeats last night's performance in the clincher, I could see him winning it. Besides Game 2 (which they won) and to a lesser extent Game 3, he's been very consistent. Rondo really hasn't had a great Finals. He's had a great playoffs, but in the Finals, in scoring and assist totals aren't terribly impressive. I really think that if the C's win, Pierce will get it.

ripjhb18
06-14-2010, 05:12 PM
Kobe hasn't even played well. His shooting percentages and turnover rate are horrendous. He had one good second half, that's it. This is such a stupid post.

Exactly what he said.

JordansBulls
06-14-2010, 05:14 PM
i heard guys talking about and it's also being discussed on espn..

win or lose kobe can still win the finals mvp ... do you know how messed up it would be to accept finals mvp after losing on your home court he's a winner but mostly he'll be a loser

No way would he get it. West got in 1969 because he averaged nearly 38 ppg. So far Kobe is averaging 30 ppg on 43% FG. So no that is not good enough to get finals mvp if your team lost. Now if it was the numbers he put up on Phx and LA lost then yes he should probably get it.

ARMIN12NBA
06-14-2010, 05:17 PM
He won't deserve it if they don't win.

He's shooting 42.5% and 38% from three. Not mind-blowing enough to warrant a losing Finals MVP. 30, 6 and 4.5 are nice numbers, but again, not mind-blowing enough to win it as a loser. His 4.2 TOs don't help either.

Depending on who plays best for Boston in the clincher (just assuming it happens), Rondo or Pierce will win it.

Kobe is shooting a 55 TS%, which is 2% above the series average of 53 TS%. Kobe is also averaging 30/6/5, leading the series in steals, and is 2nd in assists. He is playing pretty terrific defense as well.

Pierce is averaging 19/4/5 on 46% shooting.

Rondo is averaging 14/6/7 on 48% shooting.

Kobe is outplaying everybody this series by far, but probably not far enough for the voters to award a player on the losing team. I guess it depends on what happens in Game 6 and Game 7, but I am hoping that the Lakers win so this wouldn't even be a debate.

ARMIN12NBA
06-14-2010, 05:23 PM
No way would he get it. West got in 1969 because he averaged nearly 38 ppg. So far Kobe is averaging 30 ppg on 43% FG. So no that is not good enough to get finals mvp if your team lost. Now if it was the numbers he put up on Phx and LA lost then yes he should probably get it.

I think it is more so the fact that nobody else has really played well enough on the Celtics side to truly deserve it. Kobe's #'s may not be super dominant, but they are damn fantastic and much better than anybody in this series.

-Kobe24-TJ19-
06-14-2010, 05:29 PM
Kobe hasn't even played well. His shooting percentages and turnover rate are horrendous. He had one good second half, that's it. This is such a stupid post.

he's the most consistent laker in the finals

how's that stupid when this is talked on espn, OP didn't made it up himself:facepalm:
and seems like you are the only one who posts stupid posts and threads all of which have been shutted down.

ManRam
06-14-2010, 05:44 PM
Found these numbers...

Game 1: 1-6, 4 points (win)
Game 2: 2-7, 7 points (loss)
Game 3: 1-6, 4 points (win)
Game 4: 2-7, 5 points (loss)
Game 5: 1-4, 6 points (loss)


While he did keep his team into games 4 and 5, he didn't really do much in the 4th in either game. And both games were certainly winnable.

If he went nuts in the 4th, and was shooting closer to 50% than 40%, he might have a case. But he hasn't done either, so I think there is no way he wins the MVP in a losing effort. I'd even say it's a zero percent chance. His teammates haven't been great, but he hasn't really acted like the best player in the game either, sans a 4-8 minute stretch here and there.



I don't like TS%. Fact is, he's missing way more shots than he's making, and he's not even trying to get good shots of half the time.

ARMIN12NBA
06-14-2010, 05:57 PM
If he went nuts in the 4th, and was shooting closer to 50% than 40%, he might have a case. But he hasn't done either, so I think there is no way he wins the MVP in a losing effort. I'd even say it's a zero percent chance.

There is still 1-2 games to be played.

Also, when the game of basketball becomes the game of just taking shots, then you argument becomes valid. Kobe has been pretty fantastic this series. He has played great man defense and team defense. He has been rebounding the ball well above average. He has been directing the offense (ie installing the screen and roll wrinkle with Fisher, which led to a Lakers victory) and has been finding men open all series long (not his fault that they can't hit).


His teammates haven't been great, but he hasn't really acted like the best player in the game either, sans a 4-8 minute stretch here and there.

Eh, Kobe is averaging 30/6/5 on 43% shooting, 38% from 3 pt. line, and 92% from the line as well as 2 SPG and 1 BPG. He is averaging 4 TO's, but the Celtics were the absolute best team at forcing turnover all season long so that isn't really surprise. The dude is also playing great defense consistently and attracting attention from the defense to get guys like Pau, Odom, Artest, etc. better looks.



I don't like TS%. Fact is, he's missing way more shots than he's making, and he's not even trying to get good shots of half the time.

The word "way" is hyperbolic. He is still shooting above average and there are more games to be played.

NOTE: It is important to note that in Game 3, Kobe was forced into 11 bail-out shots. He went 2 for 11 on those shots as they were quite terrible. Kobe's teammates actually mentioned that as a mistake of their own for not executing the offense well and letting the ball get stagnant and eventually just heaving the ball to Kobe asking him to bail them out on a desperation shot. Also, it should be noted that Bryant was 13-24 before the last 30 seconds of Game 5 in which is was forced to take 3 desperation 3s with the game already over, rendering his final % to be at 13-27.

Ultimately, looking at stats provides no context. I can easily argue that for adjustments and context taken into consideration, Bryant has been shooting 46%, which is well above average instead of 43% which is still above average anyways.

JasonJohnHorn
06-14-2010, 06:49 PM
It has happened before where a member of the losing team gets the MVP award, but in my opinion, if your team lost, you weren't all that valuable. Sometimes a great personal performance can hurt a team. If somebody is playing well, taking and making tough shots, but not getting teammates involved, then it is hard to say exactly how "valuable" that performance is. Would the team have faired better if the ball was being moved around more? I'm not saying that Kobe is "ball hogging" because as a credit to the Celtics defence, because they have been cutting off the passing lanes and forcing Kobe to take the shot, but still, I think the final MVP award should go to a member of the winning team. Just like when Detroit won and Billups got the MVP award, it could have been argued that Shaq or even Kobe put up better numbers, but were either that valuable to the team that lost?

In my opinion, the award should always go to a player on the team that one, and I think that is the mindset of most people who vote. Kobe is the best player in the NBA finals no doubt, but his approach to the game can at times tend to isolate players and prevent them from really getting involved. Like in the first half of game two, Kobe was handing the ball out and got five assists in the first half, and even though the team was down, they were playing well on offence, they just need to cover Allen on the three point line, but then Allen starting getting hot it seemed like Kobe was forcing shots up. Now he made some great plays still, like in the closing minute of the quarter where he got two steals and made a shot, but just because a player posts the best number in a series, doesnt make him the most valuable.

The Jokemaker
06-14-2010, 06:53 PM
I think he MIGHT win it if they lose but it'd probably go to Rondo or Pierce. Thing is the Lakers will win the Finals. Game 6 by 5 points, Game 7 by 11.

ko8e24
06-14-2010, 07:00 PM
I think he MIGHT win it if they lose but it'd probably go to Rondo or Pierce. Thing is the Lakers will win the Finals. Game 6 by 5 points, Game 7 by 11.

:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:

69centers
06-14-2010, 07:00 PM
Only person I heard mention this was John Hollinger, and hopefully everyone knows what an absolute moron he is.

Celtics win, and either Pierce, Rondo, or Ray will be MVP, depending on who helps win the Finals clinching game. Kobe won't even be in the discussion. Sorry, but his stats are not even close to the only player who ever won the MVP in the Finals for a losing team:

Jerry West in 1969

Game 1 - 53 points
Game 2 - 41 points
Game 5 - 39 points
Game 7 - triple double (42 points, 13 boards, 12 assists)

Kobe's stats in these Finals aren't even close to West's that year. Hollinger and whoever else thinks Kobe is up for the MVP if they lose is out of their minds.

_Supreme_
06-14-2010, 07:01 PM
It is absolutely out of the question that the winning team does not get the Finals MVP.

Not that I don't agree with the notion that a losing's team player could under certain circumstances be the individually most valuable player, whether it is the regular season or the Finals, since basketball is a TEAM GAME, which effects whether the team wins or loses, while an MVP award is an INDIVIDUAL award, which should be seen as a separate thing.

But in this day and age it simply is not the way things are done.

ESPN can try to start whatever nonsense debate they want in their ongoing obsession with riding Kobe's Johnson, but it is not happening.

gangis2169
06-14-2010, 08:28 PM
He won't deserve it if they don't win.

He's shooting 42.5% and 38% from three. Not mind-blowing enough to warrant a losing Finals MVP. 30, 6 and 4.5 are nice numbers, but again, not mind-blowing enough to win it as a loser. His 4.2 TOs don't help either.

Depending on who plays best for Boston in the clincher (just assuming it happens), Rondo or Pierce will win it.

Lets not forget he has shot 14 shots in this series when his teammates have given him the ball with under 5 seconds on the shot clock. Thats rough. To be honest with you I think he deserves it so far he is the only one on the court getting rapped every play by great defense by Ray and Tony Allen. Nobody in this series has had to play against D like that consistently the whole series. As for the Celtics I dont think Rondo deserves it cause the Lakers dont even pay attention to him! Its easy to fill stats when nobody cares your on the court. I think Pierce is the MVP for the Celtics because he is the next closest thing to what Kobe has had to deal with on D.

gangis2169
06-14-2010, 08:33 PM
Only person I heard mention this was John Hollinger, and hopefully everyone knows what an absolute moron he is.

Celtics win, and either Pierce, Rondo, or Ray will be MVP, depending on who helps win the Finals clinching game. Kobe won't even be in the discussion. Sorry, but his stats are not even close to the only player who ever won the MVP in the Finals for a losing team:

Jerry West in 1969

Game 1 - 53 points
Game 2 - 41 points
Game 5 - 39 points
Game 7 - triple double (42 points, 13 boards, 12 assists)

Kobe's stats in these Finals aren't even close to West's that year. Hollinger and whoever else thinks Kobe is up for the MVP if they lose is out of their minds.

Kobe's numbers dont have to be as good as West. The Celtics had no answer nor an individual that could guard West in that series. The 2010 Celts have 3 players on there squad that can give Kobe a hard time. Its not the same.

masalex1205
06-14-2010, 08:55 PM
Only person I heard mention this was John Hollinger, and hopefully everyone knows what an absolute moron he is.

Celtics win, and either Pierce, Rondo, or Ray will be MVP, depending on who helps win the Finals clinching game. Kobe won't even be in the discussion. Sorry, but his stats are not even close to the only player who ever won the MVP in the Finals for a losing team:

Jerry West in 1969

Game 1 - 53 points
Game 2 - 41 points
Game 5 - 39 points
Game 7 - triple double (42 points, 13 boards, 12 assists)

Kobe's stats in these Finals aren't even close to West's that year. Hollinger and whoever else thinks Kobe is up for the MVP if they lose is out of their minds.

wow, good research

I think we're forgetting that there's a lot of b-ball left to be played. Regardless, I don't think a the MVP should come from the losing team and could only entertain the argument if a player has stats like the ones cited above which Kobe hasn't come close 2.

Evolution23
06-14-2010, 08:55 PM
i heard guys talking about and it's also being discussed on espn..

win or lose kobe can still win the finals mvp ... do you know how messed up it would be to accept finals mvp after losing on your home court he's a winner but mostly he'll be a loser

no wayyy if anything hes the reason for the lakers losing

Evolution23
06-14-2010, 09:04 PM
Kobe hasn't even played well. His shooting percentages and turnover rate are horrendous. He had one good second half, that's it. This is such a stupid post.

x2

Red222
06-14-2010, 09:15 PM
nvm

DenButsu
06-14-2010, 09:37 PM
Since it only happened once, and that was in 1969, I'd say the smart money is on the NBA continuing the 40 year precedent of awarding Finals MVP to a player on the winning team.

Giving it to the loser is something that will never happen again.

jim51990
06-14-2010, 09:41 PM
theres this guy called rondo just because he doesnt shoot the ball every time he touches it like kobe and doesnt score as many points he still has been the best player in this series

tredigs
06-14-2010, 09:42 PM
I would argue that other than game 5, Pau has been just as tough in the series for the Celtics to handle. He's not getting huge point totals being that the Lakers (Kobe) aren't moving the ball around effectively (the most shots he has taken in a game is 14, the least for Kobe is 20), but he held Garnett in check for 3 of the 5 games and has been his usual solid self on the offensive end.

Kobe going in ghost mode EVERY 4th quarter while Rondo has been beasting each 4th 100% insures that there is no chance he wins finals MVP if they lose. As singularly impressive as his games have been, he has to start realizing that the Lakers need to be better as a team if they want to try and pull this out, and shooting ridiculous shots every game (even if they go in during some of them) out of the flow of any offense is the wrong way to keep your players at the top of their game on both ends. It's fun to watch, but against a true team like the C's, that's losing basketball.

My guess is Finals MVP = whoever shows up the most between KG/Rondo/Pierce over the next game or two.

dolphan
06-14-2010, 10:06 PM
Lakers RARELY lose at home i strongly believe that theyll still win this. Finally those fkin fluke celtics will be heartborken. CANT STAND THEM ESPECIALLY PIERCE THAT COCKY ***

Red222
06-14-2010, 10:26 PM
hell no either rondo or pierce

PapelbonLester
06-14-2010, 10:42 PM
hahaha No Pierce or Rondo...i think Rondo but Pierce might get it, it depends who wins them game 6 :)

ARMIN12NBA
06-14-2010, 11:40 PM
theres this guy called rondo just because he doesnt shoot the ball every time he touches it like kobe and doesnt score as many points he still has been the best player in this series

LOL no and it is not close. Kobe Bryant has been the best player in this series.

ARMIN12NBA
06-14-2010, 11:57 PM
I would argue that other than game 5, Pau has been just as tough in the series for the Celtics to handle. He's not getting huge point totals being that the Lakers (Kobe) aren't moving the ball around effectively (the most shots he has taken in a game is 14, the least for Kobe is 20), but he held Garnett in check for 3 of the 5 games and has been his usual solid self on the offensive end.

Kobe going in ghost mode EVERY 4th quarter while Rondo has been beasting each 4th 100% insures that there is no chance he wins finals MVP if they lose. As singularly impressive as his games have been, he has to start realizing that the Lakers need to be better as a team if they want to try and pull this out, and shooting ridiculous shots every game (even if they go in during some of them) out of the flow of any offense is the wrong way to keep your players at the top of their game on both ends. It's fun to watch, but against a true team like the C's, that's losing basketball.

My guess is Finals MVP = whoever shows up the most between KG/Rondo/Pierce over the next game or two.

Good thing he realized that a long time ago and hasn't really done that consistently in these Finals!

Look, I don't expect logic, but when Odom literally doesn't show up all series long...Bynum is on one leg...Pau is absolutely and disgustingly awful on the road...How is it Kobe's fault?

He goes way too much out of his way to set them up sometimes! He stopped his 3rd quarter rampage to try to get Pau going because he knew that Pau was out of it defensively (mentally...Pau gets discouraged very, very easily).

The problem with this Laker team other than Kobe (and Bynum, but he is on one leg) is that they need to be hitting shots and being good offensively to have their head in the game on defense.

Pau was being straight up lazy on the road. He wasn't fighting for position. He wasn't setting hard picks. He was not being aggressive and looking to pass right when he got the ball instead of pick his spots with the situation he was in.

And yet Kobe gets the blame for his teammates choking under the pressure? Hilarious. They have been so terrible and I'm not talking about statistics (although those are funny too). They aren't playing tough and aren't getting in the right position to even execute.

Also, the fact that Kobe found Pau on multiple different occasions wide open and he blew nearly all of them is a testament to Pau being out of it. How many times has Kobe found Artest WIDE OPEN? Where has Lamar been at all?

But Kobe is selfish...I wish he was selfish. Maybe the Lakers would be better off instead of Kobe getting the ball to these pansies...But, it is a team game and that is the only way to win. The Lakers didn't win because the team didn't come to play...And that doesn't mean by hitting shots. I am talking about heart, energy, passion, and defense. Those MUST be constants. When Kobe has bad shooting games, he still brings those facets to the game. The problem with mentally weak players like Pau and Odom is that they need their offense to get them going, but that is ********. They need the energy and passion to even win the battle to score offensively. They need to get it together quick and that is a fact.

what54!?
06-14-2010, 11:59 PM
I think it goes the team who wins..............

considering the D being played on him though kobe has been ok this finals

JordansBulls
06-15-2010, 12:00 AM
I'm not sure what more scoring you expect Lamar to do. He has only taken 30 shots this series. That is an average of 6 fga per game.

Also Gasol is averaging 18.8 ppg and 10.0 rpg and 2.6 bpg on 51% FG in the series. Not sure how much more anyone would expect from him. That is better numbers than anyone on the C's.

Yanks All Day
06-15-2010, 12:04 AM
Lakers RARELY lose at home i strongly believe that theyll still win this. Finally those fkin fluke celtics will be heartborken. CANT STAND THEM ESPECIALLY PIERCE THAT COCKY ***

.... They did lose game 2 at home to Boston, a team that blew out Cleveland twice in Cleveland and won 3 in Orlando. They're pretty good at winning on the road against great teams, too.

But if the Lakers win, Kobe is the MVP regardless.

If Celtics win, Rondo or Baby (barring an outburst by Pierce in the clinching game). Rondo is the best player on the Celtics, and Baby has been extremely consistent, but Pierce has shown that he is still the big shot maker and team leader. Toss up depending on next game(s).

natelpete
06-15-2010, 12:06 AM
I thought Kobe was the best closer in the league? Where is he when it matters most? Yeah, he has scored a lot of points but he can't close the gap when the game is on the line. All he is now is a jump shooter, but he has a sweet stroke and will be the MVP if the Lakers win. If the Celtics win, it will go to either Rondo or Pierce.. Possibly KG if he goes nuts these next 1/2 game(s).

JordansBulls
06-15-2010, 12:07 AM
Regarding the question, I'm not even sure if Lebron would have won Finals MVP had the 38/8/8 he averaged last year against Orlando would have given him finals mvp if it happened in the nba finals instead and he lost.

tredigs
06-15-2010, 12:08 AM
Good thing he realized that a long time ago and hasn't really done that consistently in these Finals!

Look, I don't expect logic, but when Odom literally doesn't show up all series long...Bynum is on one leg...Pau is absolutely and disgustingly awful on the road...How is it Kobe's fault?

He goes way too much out of his way to set them up sometimes! He stopped his 3rd quarter rampage to try to get Pau going because he knew that Pau was out of it defensively (mentally...Pau gets discouraged very, very easily).

The problem with this Laker team other than Kobe (and Bynum, but he is on one leg) is that they need to be hitting shots and being good offensively to have their head in the game on defense.

Pau was being straight up lazy on the road. He wasn't fighting for position. He wasn't setting hard picks. He was not being aggressive and looking to pass right when he got the ball instead of pick his spots with the situation he was in.

And yet Kobe gets the blame for his teammates choking under the pressure? Hilarious. They have been so terrible and I'm not talking about statistics (although those are funny too). They aren't playing tough and aren't getting in the right position to even execute.

Also, the fact that Kobe found Pau on multiple different occasions wide open and he blew nearly all of them is a testament to Pau being out of it. How many times has Kobe found Artest WIDE OPEN? Where has Lamar been at all?

But Kobe is selfish...I wish he was selfish. Maybe the Lakers would be better off instead of Kobe getting the ball to these pansies...But, it is a team game and that is the only way to win. The Lakers didn't win because the team didn't come to play...And that doesn't mean by hitting shots. I am talking about heart, energy, passion, and defense. Those MUST be constants. When Kobe has bad shooting games, he still brings those facets to the game. The problem with mentally weak players like Pau and Odom is that they need their offense to get them going, but that is ********. They need the energy and passion to even win the battle to score offensively. They need to get it together quick and that is a fact.

It's funny, I just re-read this with Kobe as "Lebron" and the Lakers teammates as the Cavs. Amazing how easily that argument can be twisted to favor your main player.

The bottom line is that he has an amazing team around him that are proven winners (with the exception of Artest, which was the misstep of the decade by the Lakers), so they've got to figure it out. As hot as Kobe can get, it's only going to take the rest of them out of the game if he doesn't get them t he ball for 10 minutes at a time. If they keep missing shots? Well then tough ****, your team didn't deserve to win, but it's the only chance the Lakers have. If Kobe abandons them like he has for long stretches because some players are in a bit of a scoring drought, then he ruins their chances. Period. If there is ever a time to do this, it is in the 4th quarter. And what has he done in the 4th quarter? Nothing.

Regardless... as per the original question in this thread, the answer once again is a clearly obvious no.

PrettyBoyJ
06-15-2010, 12:23 AM
it would look like it but only if kobes comes out and drops 45-50+ then that would probably seal the deal..

Avenged
06-15-2010, 12:34 AM
it would look like it but only if kobes comes out and drops 45-50+ then that would probably seal the deal..

If he manages to drop 50+ points it wont be efficiently, not against the Celtics defense, therefor he won't deserve the MVP and either way he still doesn't if the Lakers lose.

D Roses Bulls
06-15-2010, 12:42 AM
i heard guys talking about and it's also being discussed on espn..

win or lose kobe can still win the finals mvp ... do you know how messed up it would be to accept finals mvp after losing on your home court he's a winner but mostly he'll be a loser

man I like you and all and I know you took this subject from ESPN, but this is kind of a dumb topic. the most valuable player comes from the team that has won the championship. I mean okay, if kobe was the only good player on the team and say the lakers went 7 games or even 6 games against a far Superior team and averaged good numbers that kept his team in the series i could see it happen, but all year long the lakers have had the best team on paper, the far more superior players, the best player in the series and are playing against a team who a lot of people thought a month ago were over the hill and also the lakers have home court advantage. so there is no way kobe should win mvp if the lakers lose the series. NO WAY!!!! and this shouldnt even be a discussion really.

ARMIN12NBA
06-15-2010, 01:11 AM
I'm not sure what more scoring you expect Lamar to do. He has only taken 30 shots this series. That is an average of 6 fga per game.

Odom has been getting stupid fouls. Odom has not been aggressive enough. He is playing lackadaisacal on defense and on the boards. Just terrible.


Also Gasol is averaging 18.8 ppg and 10.0 rpg and 2.6 bpg on 51% FG in the series. Not sure how much more anyone would expect from him. That is better numbers than anyone on the C's.

Like OMG, all that matters are stats that are over inflated by two home games.

Basketball is more than stats. Pau played with no efforts, heart, and intensity on the road. He didn't play aggressively and didn't execute at all. He was downright embarrassing defensively, man and especially on his rotations for team defense. An utter joke. I'm sorry JB, but I expect a ton more from him. Those stats can be the same, but the impact can be a lot more.

ARMIN12NBA
06-15-2010, 01:16 AM
It's funny, I just re-read this with Kobe as "Lebron" and the Lakers teammates as the Cavs. Amazing how easily that argument can be twisted to favor your main player.

LOL...What?

And Kobe didn't abandon anybody. He went 7-9. It is up for the team to play defense at that point. His teammates let him down as the C's in that same stretch went 12-13. This is true. Kobe did EVERYTHING he could to tie the game or take the lead, but the score stayed the same. Why? It was back and forth. His teammates had to step up and play defense and rebound. THE GAME IS NOT ALL ABOUT SCORING PEOPLE! Do you think Rodman just stood around when Jordan went on scoring rampages? He got every rebound. Do you think Pippen just stood around when Jordan went on scoring rampages? He played lockdown defense. This is the fact that people forget a lot of the time.

The thing that Kobe did in that 3rd quarter wasn't any different than Ray Allen's 1st quarter in Game 2 or Jordan's Game 2 against the Blazers. NO DIFFERENT. The only difference was that the teammates for Ray were playing hard nosed defense and rebounding while Ray was chucking shot after shot because he was hot. Same goes for Jordan. Kobe's teammates played non-existent defense.

Kobe went on a scoring rampage and he needed his teammates in that moment to do other things well. They didn't. END OF STORY.

D1JM
06-15-2010, 01:36 AM
He won't deserve it if they don't win.

He's shooting 42.5% and 38% from three. Not mind-blowing enough to warrant a losing Finals MVP. 30, 6 and 4.5 are nice numbers, but again, not mind-blowing enough to win it as a loser. His 4.2 TOs don't help either.

Depending on who plays best for Boston in the clincher (just assuming it happens), Rondo or Pierce will win it.

this

WITZ
06-15-2010, 02:08 AM
I don't see how the hell he would get it if they don't win its not like he is having an amazing series.

ldc62
06-15-2010, 02:42 AM
If Lakers lose Rondo will get it. I'm not saying he should or not, but he WILL get it. Everyone will look back at the fact that he carried the Celtics against Cavs/Magic (sub-consciously).

_KB24_
06-15-2010, 03:18 AM
LOL...What?

And Kobe didn't abandon anybody. He went 7-9. It is up for the team to play defense at that point. His teammates let him down as the C's in that same stretch went 12-13. This is true. Kobe did EVERYTHING he could to tie the game or take the lead, but the score stayed the same. Why? It was back and forth. His teammates had to step up and play defense and rebound. THE GAME IS NOT ALL ABOUT SCORING PEOPLE! Do you think Rodman just stood around when Jordan went on scoring rampages? He got every rebound. Do you think Pippen just stood around when Jordan went on scoring rampages? He played lockdown defense. This is the fact that people forget a lot of the time.

The thing that Kobe did in that 3rd quarter wasn't any different than Ray Allen's 1st quarter in Game 2 or Jordan's Game 2 against the Blazers. NO DIFFERENT. The only difference was that the teammates for Ray were playing hard nosed defense and rebounding while Ray was chucking shot after shot because he was hot. Same goes for Jordan. Kobe's teammates played non-existent defense.

Kobe went on a scoring rampage and he needed his teammates in that moment to do other things well. They didn't. END OF STORY.

You can try all you want Armin, but you know all the blame is going to go down on to Kobe. I mean, it's 100% Kobe's fault that his teammates played with absolute no passion and heart in Game 5. You know people are going to run their mouths, let them. It was utter disgusting watching the game be played. I was actually hoping DJ Mbenga would come in and play. Atleast he would get up off his feet and contest shots :facepalm:

robdizzle3
06-15-2010, 03:23 AM
I would give it to him if it went seven and it was close, but if we lose tuesday, he shouldnt get it.

jaji10
06-15-2010, 06:11 AM
KOBE will get it coz we are definitely going 2 win games 6 & 7, back 2 back baby!! back 2 back!!

tcav701
06-15-2010, 06:51 AM
So you're saying the finals MVP should be someone who wasn't good enough to win the series?

Not hating on Kobe because he has been amazing but giving the MVP to the losing side just makes no sense. It's not most consistent or best scorer, the award goes to the player that has been most valuable to his teams success. There is nothing more valuable than 4 wins in the finals.

j37hr0
06-15-2010, 06:58 AM
Pierce will get his second or Rondo will get his first. It makes the Nash/Paul/Williams point guard debate kinda silly if Rondo gets Finals MVP and his second championship as to best in the league.

KnicksorBust
06-15-2010, 07:07 AM
Kobe is shooting a 55 TS%, which is 2% above the series average of 53 TS%. Kobe is also averaging 30/6/5, leading the series in steals, and is 2nd in assists. He is playing pretty terrific defense as well.

Pierce is averaging 19/4/5 on 46% shooting.

Rondo is averaging 14/6/7 on 48% shooting.

Kobe is outplaying everybody this series by far, but probably not far enough for the voters to award a player on the losing team. I guess it depends on what happens in Game 6 and Game 7, but I am hoping that the Lakers win so this wouldn't even be a debate.


Odom has been getting stupid fouls. Odom has not been aggressive enough. He is playing lackadaisacal on defense and on the boards. Just terrible.



Like OMG, all that matters are stats that are over inflated by two home games.

Basketball is more than stats. Pau played with no efforts, heart, and intensity on the road. He didn't play aggressively and didn't execute at all. He was downright embarrassing defensively, man and especially on his rotations for team defense. An utter joke. I'm sorry JB, but I expect a ton more from him. Those stats can be the same, but the impact can be a lot more.

:clap: Great posts. You saved me the time having to look it up myself. However, I don't agree with the thought that Kobe should win Finals MVP in a loss. Too bad that's not going to have to happen.

Philly 4 Life
06-15-2010, 07:39 AM
no wayyy if anything hes the reason for the lakers losing

dude lets not get stupid now and act like u dont no basketball, because if u jus watch the finals u would see that without kobe doin what hes doin dis series wouldnt have went past 5 games....kobes doin everything he can and then some to try nd keep his team in the game, the reasons for the lakers losing are simple, bench outplayed, no help consistently from anyone (there was a span last game where no1 but kobe scored for 14:07), nd bynum not being able to be on the court as much hurts there physical presence down low with perk nd big baby...those r the reasons, if nything the lakers and ABC should thank kobe that this series is still playing.

Hawkeye15
06-15-2010, 07:49 AM
http://aloneinthecorner.com/post/698948363/celtics-defense-vs-kobe

not sure where else to put this. Interesting

thekmp211
06-15-2010, 08:34 AM
dude lets not get stupid now and act like u dont no basketball, because if u jus watch the finals u would see that without kobe doin what hes doin dis series wouldnt have went past 5 games....kobes doin everything he can and then some to try nd keep his team in the game, the reasons for the lakers losing are simple, bench outplayed, no help consistently from anyone (there was a span last game where no1 but kobe scored for 14:07), nd bynum not being able to be on the court as much hurts there physical presence down low with perk nd big baby...those r the reasons, if nything the lakers and ABC should thank kobe that this series is still playing.


yeah, kobe fisher and sometimes gasol are the only guys bringing it on the lakers. the celtics team culture is pervasive throughout the whole roster these guys all WANT it

king4day
06-15-2010, 08:39 AM
If Pierce has another big game in game 6 and Boston wins, Pierce will get it.
Otherwise it's Kobe's to lose.

JordansBulls
06-15-2010, 08:41 AM
If Pierce has another big game in game 6 and Boston wins, Pierce will get it.
Otherwise it's Kobe's to lose.

Disagree. No one on Det in 2004 really played well but Shaq averaged 27 and 11 on 63% and I doubt he even got a vote.

thekmp211
06-15-2010, 08:58 AM
wait so you're telling me...

...that espn was doing a puff spot on kobe? i dont believe you.

but, no.

i'd give it to rondo and, honestly, glen davis.

i just think the collective basketball world would implode into a black hole if big baby davis won a finals mvp.

Hellcrooner
06-15-2010, 10:27 AM
to reward what, him taing many shots including a LOT of ill advised ones in the fourth qarters and shooting lakers out of the games?

Hellcrooner
06-15-2010, 10:29 AM
IMo the mvp should go to eithwer

1 the celtic player that shines most in a game 6 win

2 the celtic player that shines most in a game 7 win

3 the laker palyer who has a better performance in games 6 and 7 and laker win.

4 the laker player who mas an ASHTOUNDING performance in game 7 and win.

Super.
06-15-2010, 11:35 AM
i heard guys talking about and it's also being discussed on espn..

win or lose kobe can still win the finals mvp ... do you know how messed up it would be to accept finals mvp after losing on your home court he's a winner but mostly he'll be a loser

How can you be the MVP of a losing team?

pebloemer
06-15-2010, 12:00 PM
How can you be the MVP of a losing team?

Less valuable supporting cast. If we give a number value to the importance of players on each team, Kobe could have the highest number, but the accumulation of team numbers has Boston higher.

ie.

Fisher - 3
Kobe - 5
Artest - 3
Gasol - 4
Bynum - 2.5

or Boston:

Rondo - 4
Allen - 3.5
Pierce - 4
Garnett - 4
Perkins - 3

Lakers = 17.5
Boston = 18.5

Boston has the better team result, but Kobe is still the most valuable player on the court. This is a fictional example that some people may agree with, but I realize it doesn't even take into account bench, etc and the numbers are very subjective.

I am not necessarily advocating for Kobe to be the MVP, just giving an example of how it could be possible and make sense.

bagwell368
06-15-2010, 12:24 PM
How can you be the MVP of a losing team?

Jerry West was an MVP ('62 I think) when they lost (again) to the Celts.

Kobe is the best player on the floor, but, his team isn't the best, and he doesn't know how to elevate himself and the team at the same time, it's either or. The Celts D has a lot to do with that. If the Celts play D like they did in game 5, it's over. Only the officials or a collective brain fart by the Celts can derail them now - Kobe can't. During the span of his 19 point outburst the Lakers lost ground to the Celtics. If Kobe gets less then 10 foul shots, that's another indicator that the refs are leaving the game alone, or Kobe has been turned into a long range sniper by the Celts D.

Melo15
06-15-2010, 01:00 PM
I could see them giving it to Kobe he has been on fire but he seems like he's the only Laker showing up. Overall though if the Celtics close it out Pierce will probably get it. Who knows though maybe Pau Gasol will decide to stop being the Celtics b**** and help the Lakers make a comeback.

ballpd05
06-15-2010, 02:09 PM
No one who loses should win the finals MVP. Thats like giving the MVP to a guy whose team didn't make the playoffs.

How valuable can he be to the finals if his team lost? Is he most valuable because if he didn't play they'd lose by more?

I'm sure it could be argued if he passed more and got his teammates confidence up they'd do better. All the complaining about ball movement on the lakers seems to show that everyone's lack of touches is getting to them.

pebloemer
06-15-2010, 02:21 PM
No one who loses should win the finals MVP. Thats like giving the MVP to a guy whose team didn't make the playoffs.

How valuable can he be to the finals if his team lost? Is he most valuable because if he didn't play they'd lose by more?

I'm sure it could be argued if he passed more and got his teammates confidence up they'd do better. All the complaining about ball movement on the lakers seems to show that everyone's lack of touches is getting to them.

I agree with the bolded part about Kobe, just not the blanket statement that "no one who loses should win the finals MVP." A player can be the most valuable to his team and still lose. It is still a team game and all 8-15 players need to contribute.The most influential player can be on the losing team if he doesn't get enough support.

Chronz
06-15-2010, 03:55 PM
Disagree. No one on Det in 2004 really played well but Shaq averaged 27 and 11 on 63% and I doubt he even got a vote.
What did Kareem average vs the Celtics when he lost the title to them? Im being serious I lost that site again, can you hook it up with the linkage again?

_KB24_
06-15-2010, 11:55 PM
Great to see JVG make a statement before the game started and early on the 4th. Kobe never gets the credit he deserves. He said it perfect, that when Lebron went off against Detroit, and Jordan is hot as fire, its all praise. But Kobe does it in Game 5 and they say he lacks trust in his teammates and criticize him? Love that he said that they're are a "few media personnel" who just love to criticize the guy no matter what he does. That took guts to say on national tv.

JordansBulls
06-16-2010, 12:35 AM
What did Kareem average vs the Celtics when he lost the title to them? Im being serious I lost that site again, can you hook it up with the linkage again?

In 1974???

http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/NBA_1974_finals.html


http://webuns.chez-alice.fr/finals/1974.htm#

hugepatsfan
06-16-2010, 12:37 AM
Great to see JVG make a statement before the game started and early on the 4th. Kobe never gets the credit he deserves. He said it perfect, that when Lebron went off against Detroit, and Jordan is hot as fire, its all praise. But Kobe does it in Game 5 and they say he lacks trust in his teammates and criticize him? Love that he said that they're are a "few media personnel" who just love to criticize the guy no matter what he does. That took guts to say on national tv.

The overall point is good but the example is poor. Those guys won their games. If LA won game 5, Kobe would be praised. I think people do criticize him to much though.

I love him as a player, but he comes off as a frontrunner in terms of his leadership. When things are going bad, he puts a pissy face on and sits by himself (expcept for when he's cussing out his teamates). But when things are great (like tonight), he's like the haed cheerleader and "puts his KG gamne face on."

GspLAL
06-16-2010, 12:41 AM
The overall point is good but the example is poor. Those guys won their games. If LA won game 5, Kobe would be praised. I think people do criticize him to much though.

I love him as a player, but he comes off as a frontrunner in terms of his leadership. When things are going bad, he puts a pissy face on and sits by himself (expcept for when he's cussing out his teamates). But when things are great (like tonight), he's like the haed cheerleader and "puts his KG gamne face on."

You do realize that Jordan himself would do the same right?

hugepatsfan
06-16-2010, 12:45 AM
You do realize that Jordan himself would do the same right?

I have no problem with that. I think it's fine. But many people feel that's bad. I don't get it but whatever. But when I see Kobe (even though I love him), I definately see someone that pushes blame (through his actions). It doesn't make him a bad person, it just makes him a bit of a diva (like 80% of the NBA lol).

hugepatsfan
06-16-2010, 12:53 AM
Kobe winning MVP in a loss would be hoorible for him. It would just fuel the fire of the morons that think he is a ballhog over a winner.

Avenged
06-16-2010, 12:58 AM
This is still going on?

If the Lakers lose, Kobe doesn't deserve it. How can he be the most valuable player when his team lost?

Now if and when (;)) the Lakers win, the MVP is all but his.

robdizzle3
06-16-2010, 01:15 AM
The way JVG and Mark Jackson petitioned, I dont see Kobe not getting it, unless PP has an outstanding gmae 7, but Kobe has been the best player by far. Man this is gonna be epic.

shep33
06-16-2010, 01:35 AM
I was actually against Kobe getting it if they lost, but now its kinda interesting he might actually get it... but I'll tell you what, if they ain't winning he's throwing that trophy (if he gets it) in the Pacific.

_KB24_
06-16-2010, 02:23 AM
The overall point is good but the example is poor. Those guys won their games. If LA won game 5, Kobe would be praised. I think people do criticize him to much though.

I love him as a player, but he comes off as a frontrunner in terms of his leadership. When things are going bad, he puts a pissy face on and sits by himself (expcept for when he's cussing out his teamates). But when things are great (like tonight), he's like the haed cheerleader and "puts his KG gamne face on."

I get your point, but I still have a hard time believing that Lebron would be blamed even if his team did lose. JVG said it brilliantly IMO.

As for the second part, I actually like it. When your team is not playing with passion, should any star need to encourage them at this point? You should be sure in hell pissed. Thats what I love about D-Wade, I see so much of Kobe in him when I see him because reacts very similarily. He shouldn't warrant the need.

ARMIN12NBA
06-16-2010, 02:34 AM
The overall point is good but the example is poor. Those guys won their games. If LA won game 5, Kobe would be praised. I think people do criticize him to much though.

I love him as a player, but he comes off as a frontrunner in terms of his leadership. When things are going bad, he puts a pissy face on and sits by himself (expcept for when he's cussing out his teamates). But when things are great (like tonight), he's like the haed cheerleader and "puts his KG gamne face on."

Not really. When Gasol is a no show and Odom hasn't showed in five games, should he baby them? That is the wrong way to go. Fisher does that ****. Kobe will get in their face and tell them what they need to do to do better. When they rise to the occasion and meet the demands that Kobe sets out for them, then he isn't going to be a douche. He will congratulate them. That isn't frontrunning. That is like a classic dad in many ways. Your dad usually gives the most constructive criticism, but when you succeed, your dad will give you props. Fisher is like a mom, always coddling. :laugh2:

NPH
06-16-2010, 03:22 AM
You do realize that Jordan himself would do the same right?

Don't start that. The whole Jordan thing will make these other guys get all pissy.

hugepatsfan
06-16-2010, 10:34 AM
Not really. When Gasol is a no show and Odom hasn't showed in five games, should he baby them? That is the wrong way to go. Fisher does that ****. Kobe will get in their face and tell them what they need to do to do better. When they rise to the occasion and meet the demands that Kobe sets out for them, then he isn't going to be a douche. He will congratulate them. That isn't frontrunning. That is like a classic dad in many ways. Your dad usually gives the most constructive criticism, but when you succeed, your dad will give you props. Fisher is like a mom, always coddling. :laugh2:

It's just that when they are losing he seems more reserved and doesn't interact with others as much. I love when guys get on their teamates and try to get the best out of them. I remember KG made Big Baby cry once - made him a better player. But when the Lakers are losing, I see Kobe screaming and cussing at his teamates. That's not the problem. My issue is that he does that and then goes and sits by himself on the bench or says nothing in the game. Because of that, it seems more like a childish tirade than him trying to motivate. I think he is definately a guy that deflects blame through his actions. I love him as a player though. And I don't see what he does in the lockeroom. He might be the greatest leader in there so I won't hammer him. But I just see a frontrunner leadership when he's on the court.

Raidaz4Life
06-16-2010, 10:47 AM
I definitely think Kobe wins it by default unless Pierce or Rondo puts up a spectacular game. I don't get why people are saying "he isn't the most valuable player if his team doesn't win", last time I checked basketball is a "team" sport and one player does not determine the outcome. Kobe Bryant has by far played the most valuable basketball for either team this series and the fact that this series has gone to 7 games has shown that neither team has dominated enough for their best player to automatically win Finals MVP. Nobody on the Celtics deserves it... period thus Kobe should win. Of course thats assuming Paul Pierce doesn't drop 35 and lead his team to a game 7 victory.

albertc86
06-16-2010, 10:55 AM
Kobe will not be fully appreciated until he's gone or starts to decline; that's just the truth. Imagine the last 10 years without Kobe. Would the NBA have been as exciting? Probably not, imo. Who would we be arguing as the wingman of the decade? I mean, the guy isn't compared to Jordan for nothing. Stop acting like the game started and ended with Jordan. Have a little respect for the history of the game. Jordan borrowed from his predecessors as well; he wasn't the most liked by his peers either.

Kobe2324
06-16-2010, 12:13 PM
Win or lose he is the MVP because no Celtic has even had 2 really good games and kobe has had atleast 4. At this point I think even Pau as bad as he played in Boston has had at least 2 or 3 good games which is more than any Celtic. But who cares cause Lakers are winning Game 7 and Kobe is already a lock for MVP.

Hellcrooner
06-16-2010, 12:58 PM
Mvp is for grasp.

Nothing on the 6 previous games matters

whoever plays the best game ( the best game not score the most points by shooting 40 bricks) in teh team that wins earns it.

DenButsu
06-16-2010, 01:05 PM
At this point, I'd have to say that if it's not Kobe, it will be Rondo. And whichever one of them wins it will be on the championship team, not the loser.

Tragedy
06-16-2010, 01:09 PM
I think it would be so freaking wrong to give the MVP to ANYONE who didn't win the title. They call it Most VALUABLE, yet his team still lost. I think that's a pile of crap. You can score 60 PPG, I think you find someone on the winning team and give the award to that person. It'd be a slap in the face to any winning team.

With that said, I don't think this matters because I think Kobe wins the MVP once the Lakers win Game 7.

pebloemer
06-16-2010, 01:17 PM
I think it would be so freaking wrong to give the MVP to ANYONE who didn't win the title. They call it Most VALUABLE, yet his team still lost. I think that's a pile of crap. You can score 60 PPG, I think you find someone on the winning team and give the award to that person. It'd be a slap in the face to any winning team.

With that said, I don't think this matters because I think Kobe wins the MVP once the Lakers win Game 7.

And if they score 20 ppg on 60% shooting with 15 assists, 15 rebounds and 0 turnovers and their opponents have 5 all stars who prove that one player is no match for a team full of all stars? Is that player on the losing team still less valuable?

JordansBulls
06-16-2010, 01:18 PM
I think if LA lost game 7 on the road and Kobe played great then I could understand giving it to him. But if LA loses game 7 at home of the NBA Finals, I see no possible way of why he should get it. I mean that is why you have game 7 at home for.

Tragedy
06-16-2010, 01:18 PM
And if they score 20 ppg on 60% shooting with 15 assists, 15 rebounds and 0 turnovers and their opponents have 5 all stars who prove that one player is no match for a team full of all stars? Is that player on the losing team still less valuable?
Yes, because how is he more valuable, when he lost the series? I don't care how good you perform in the series, if you lost the series you weren't good enough..Even if you played amazingly.

JordansBulls
06-16-2010, 01:21 PM
Yes, because how is he more valuable, when he lost the series? I don't care how good you perform in the series, if you lost the series you weren't good enough..Even if you played amazingly.

Again, I think this applies only if you had HCA or the better record/seed.

If you had the worst record and worst seed, then I don't see how that could apply as you weren't expected to win.

Hellcrooner
06-16-2010, 01:22 PM
And if they score 20 ppg on 60% shooting with 15 assists, 15 rebounds and 0 turnovers and their opponents have 5 all stars who prove that one player is no match for a team full of all stars? Is that player on the losing team still less valuable?

if you lose the game you are not the mvp.


And this league is bout scoring.

Check yesterday "kobe lead the lakers to game 7!"

someone had 17 13 9 assists and 3 blocks but it seems that is nothing......

RaiderLakersA's
06-16-2010, 01:25 PM
Kobe wouldn't accept the MVP if the Lakers don't win the title. He'd see it as little more than a consolation prize, the crappy "Get your pet neutered or spade" Certificate that they hand out to losers on the Price Is Right.

I'm hoping the Lakers win on Thursday night, making it an easy decision.

DenButsu
06-16-2010, 01:33 PM
Again, I think this applies only if you had HCA or the better record/seed.

If you had the worst record and worst seed, then I don't see how that could apply as you weren't expected to win.

Okay, JB, you've got me officially confused now.

Are you saying that a player WITH HCA and the higher seed who LOSES the Finals (but lays well) should be awarded MVP in spite of performing WORSE than expected?

Or are you saying the opposite (that a player WITHOUT HCA, in the lower seed, who still LOSES the Finals but plays well should be awarded the MVP for performing BETTER than expected)?

Either way, the logic doesn't hold for me. The player who is the most valuable in the Finals should be, by definition, the one who does the most to help his team WIN the Finals.

Chronz
06-16-2010, 01:48 PM
I think if LA lost game 7 on the road and Kobe played great then I could understand giving it to him. But if LA loses game 7 at home of the NBA Finals, I see no possible way of why he should get it. I mean that is why you have game 7 at home for.
Agreed, MJ would never lose with HCA

Chronz
06-16-2010, 01:54 PM
In 1974???

http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/NBA_1974_finals.html


http://webuns.chez-alice.fr/finals/1974.htm#

Yea thats the one, so who would you have made the MVP?

JordansBulls
06-16-2010, 03:14 PM
Okay, JB, you've got me officially confused now.

Are you saying that a player WITH HCA and the higher seed who LOSES the Finals (but lays well) should be awarded MVP in spite of performing WORSE than expected?

Or are you saying the opposite (that a player WITHOUT HCA, in the lower seed, who still LOSES the Finals but plays well should be awarded the MVP for performing BETTER than expected)?

Either way, the logic doesn't hold for me. The player who is the most valuable in the Finals should be, by definition, the one who does the most to help his team WIN the Finals.

This one.



Or are you saying the opposite (that a player WITHOUT HCA, in the lower seed, who still LOSES the Finals but plays well should be awarded the MVP for performing BETTER than expected)?

But that is if it went 7 and he was clearly the best on the floor.

JordansBulls
06-16-2010, 03:15 PM
Yea thats the one, so who would you have made the MVP?

HONDO or COWENS

pebloemer
06-16-2010, 03:27 PM
Yes, because how is he more valuable, when he lost the series? I don't care how good you perform in the series, if you lost the series you weren't good enough..Even if you played amazingly.

If you lose, it is a team loss, not an individual one. The best teams don't always have the most valuable player, the have the most valuable collection of players. But I am guessing we are going to have to agree to disagree on this one.

ko8e24
06-16-2010, 03:36 PM
Kobe's gonna have a 30+ pt game in game 7. If he scores 33 points, and the Lakers win the championship, he will receive the Finals MVP trophy averaging 30.0 ppg on 43-44% shooting, 7 boards, 4 assists and 2.5 steals against a tough Celtics defense.

ARMIN12NBA
06-16-2010, 05:14 PM
It's just that when they are losing he seems more reserved and doesn't interact with others as much. I love when guys get on their teamates and try to get the best out of them. I remember KG made Big Baby cry once - made him a better player. But when the Lakers are losing, I see Kobe screaming and cussing at his teamates. That's not the problem. My issue is that he does that and then goes and sits by himself on the bench or says nothing in the game. Because of that, it seems more like a childish tirade than him trying to motivate. I think he is definately a guy that deflects blame through his actions. I love him as a player though. And I don't see what he does in the lockeroom. He might be the greatest leader in there so I won't hammer him. But I just see a frontrunner leadership when he's on the court.

Eh, not really. We have seen on multiple occasions, Kobe grabbing the clipboard and start coaching the teammates. Kobe is constantly talking to the guys in the huddles and trying to get them in their right spots to perfectly execute the Triangle.

_KB24_
06-16-2010, 07:38 PM
if you lose the game you are not the mvp.


And this league is bout scoring.

Check yesterday "kobe lead the lakers to game 7!"

someone had 17 13 9 assists and 3 blocks but it seems that is nothing......

Someone also didn't shoot the ball very well. How the hell does a big man shoot 42% especially with their leading post defender out? Gasol has had such a horrible series, its not even funny. Not to mention he let Garnett come back to life and absolute torture him down in the post in the past 4 games.

DenButsu
06-17-2010, 10:38 PM
I don't think after how he's shot so far in this game that if the Lakers lose the league could possibly award him with Finals MVP. I don't think they'd give it to a player on the losing team regardless, but even moreso now.

jackdawson
06-17-2010, 10:50 PM
I will vomit if Kobe wins mvp (ofcourse if the lakers lose).

Moosie Doom
06-18-2010, 12:31 AM
My MVP was RonRon.