View Full Version : Is the Celtics championship window more than just a few years?

Boston Faithful
06-14-2010, 02:48 AM
Many say that once "The Big Three" have ran their course, this Celtics team will be done.

But win or lose in this NBA Finals, do the Celtics have a championship window of say 5-6 years?

On the surface, yes, Paul Pierce, Ray Allen and Kevin Garnett are getting old. But even with them and Rondo leading, this Celtics team still has 2 years left as a perennial contender.

After that? Look at it this way. Rajon Rondo is 24, Kendrick Perkins is 25, Glen Davis is 24, Nate Robinson is 26 and Tony Allen is 28. The Celtics also have the 19th pick in the draft, where it's possible they can add a piece of the future. Rondo, Perk and Glen Davis are only going to get better. Rondo's going to develop into a top 5-10 NBA player. Perkins is already a top defensive center and if his coaches and the older guys work with him on his offensive game, he can eventually become a guy that's right below All-Star caliber. And Glen Davis has just been great in the playoffs, I think he's a future starter. In my opinion, those three can be the mainstay starters for years to come. Nate Robinson has been playing as if he can land the Celtics sixth man role for a long time. And Tony Allen is still relatively young and provides such a great defensive presence, James Posey-like.

If Nate Robinson re-signs this offseason, the Celtics won't have to worry about the PG spot for 5 years. And after those initial 2 years that I mentioned, Pierce, Garnett and Allen can develop into the Celtics bench. Garnett and Allen would certainly be willing to take bench roles after their skills diminish and I don't think it'd be a big deal if an older Pierce started, because he wouldn't be the focal point. The Celtics will surely add other pieces, but look at a lineup like this:

PG 27-year-old All NBA First Team Rajon Rondo?
SG ??? Maybe the Celtics pick or another piece?
SF 35-year-old seasoned Paul Pierce
PF 27-year-old much improved Glen Davis
C 28-year-old much improved Kendrick Perkins
6 29-year-old Nate Robinson
7 38-year-old Ray Allen (he'll still be a sharpshooter)
8 37-year-old Kevin Garnett (he'll still provide solid bench minutes)
9 31-year-old Tony Allen

The way these guys have played in the postseason, especially that bench run in the fourth quarter of Game 4, I believe the bench can transition into the main guys with Rondo and Perkins while the Big Three can provide veteran presence for the future.

06-14-2010, 02:53 AM
5 or 6 years? put down the pipe.

06-14-2010, 02:55 AM
2 years max

06-14-2010, 03:02 AM
They may have a couple more chances but I think that core eventually breaks up. I don't think Rondo will be there forever. Perkins could leave within a few years as well.

06-14-2010, 03:16 AM
You are thinking way too far. I give one more year for the celtics.

BTW, You thread making abilities are awful.

06-14-2010, 03:22 AM
I think they can compete next year and maybe the year after too, but that's about it. I don't buy into the whole, "this is it for the Celtics," notion.

06-14-2010, 03:23 AM
I think this is the last year with this group that they got. Lot of free agents are on this team, and they lack the money to get another quality player cause KG is still getting 40 mill over the next 2 years, Pierce is still getting 21 mill for next year, and Sheed still has 13 mill coming to him over the next 2 years. I really think they believe its their last chance too, I don't know how effective KG is gonna be next year at his age and with those knees for another whole season. Hopefully they sign Ray, cause I think he wants to stay... but he's gonna have to take a pay cut bigtime from the 20 mill he was getting this year.

One of their biggest losses is Thibideau... people underestimate what he does for this team. Guy is a defensive guru.

Look at these freeagents though:

-Ray Allen
-Tony Allen (likely gonna get a better offer from other teams after what he's done in the playoffs defensively)
-Nate Robinson- Will he stay? Or will another team offer him more money and an increased role (i.e. starter)
-Daniels and Sheldon Williams are both freeagents, but they're replaceable.

Rondo is the man in beantown, and he ain't going nowhere. But this team is gonna change bigtime next year, even some talk of Doc leaving. Like I said, IMO i just think they know this is their last year with that core of players, that's why they want this so bad.

People got to remember if anyone of Pierce, Garnett, Allen, Rondo get hurt that's it for them. They literally need all those guys going at the same time or else it just won't work out. That's just my opinion though, they remind me a lot of the Spurs in a way with their age.

Financially it doesn't look great for them unless they can somehow restructure guys' contracts:

Over the next 2 season the Celtics are investing $101.4 million in Rondo, KG, Pierce (1 year only- 2010/2011), Sheed (2 years), Perkins (1 year only), Big Baby (1 year only).

And consider that in 2011/2012 they only have 3 players signed, and the $101.4 million, does not include any extension for Perkins, Allen, Pierce, or Big Baby for 2012. Financially they could be in some trouble down the road.

06-14-2010, 04:27 AM
no more than 2 years. with the health of garnett these last two years, this may be the last year they compete for a title. they have age working against them with three of their key players.

06-14-2010, 05:23 AM
I say another 2 years with the big 3. Then again, with Rondo as their "guy" and a couple of pieces around him, they could be dangerous in a few years

06-14-2010, 05:41 AM
Maybe it's a little longer than a lot of people would give credit for, but it all varies. They have the benefit of being healthier than they were last year, which means a lot more to a team of veterans than anything.

As it stands, Rondo, Perkins and Davis are the only players who will likely improve in the next couple of seasons (age, FA, etc.). They'll have new players in the future, obviously, but a lot depends on that.

We'll see in a season or two if age really comes into play. It did at the end of the regular season, and by all accounts next year shouldn't be an exception.

06-14-2010, 06:18 AM
Next year is their last year.

Rondo will keep them good but its going to hurt losing 3 Hall of Fame caliber players no matter how good they are now.

06-14-2010, 06:25 AM
They may have a couple more chances but I think that core eventually breaks up. I don't think Rondo will be there forever. Perkins could leave within a few years as well.

Well his five year, $55 million extension guarantees that he will still be with the team during the timeframe given in the original post.

06-14-2010, 06:33 AM
After KG's contract is up, they will still have a core of Rondo and Perk (Dont give me **** about Perk not being under contract, there's no reason for him to leave).

Starting a team with an all-star point guard and a defensive big man isn't too hard to **** up.

06-14-2010, 07:05 AM
One year maybe. But that's it

06-14-2010, 07:59 AM
I say one more year as well.

06-14-2010, 08:05 AM
one more year. The big three were fortunate to enter the playoffs healthy. Odds just don't point to that happening a lot at their age.

Lo Porto
06-14-2010, 08:32 AM
All depends on what happens with the Allens. If Ray and Tony leave, I think they lose their ability to be a true contender. Those guys combine for too much. Ray's shooting allows for Boston to run their offense as well as they do. Tony's D and athleticism will be key in the next couple years as the stars age.

06-14-2010, 09:34 AM
2 years at best.

Firstly Nate, Ray Allen, and I think Tony Allen all need to be signed. The most IMO they should give Ray is the mid level.

Perkins is a limited player, not in real good cardio vascular shape, and has an elemental offensive game, winning in '08 and maybe this year has more to do with KG, Sheed, Davis & KG, Powe & Davis then with him. He also gets too many T's. He's good for guarding big strong centers, but faster more agile players eat him up.

The Celts badly need 1 if not 2 max bigs - and they won't get them until they clear out the current old guys - which would make that essentially another team.

For all intents and purposes - this is the shot.

06-14-2010, 09:36 AM
This regular season wasn't a fluke. Injuries happen and will happen again. KG is not the force he once was. Ray Allen may not even be on the team next year. Wallace had a bad year.
It'll depend on how much they're willing to pay Davis when his contract is up and if they wanna keep Nate.
Their foundation is shakey. I give them a lot of credit for being where they are right now, but anyone saying "the window is open for another few years", certainly wasn't saying that 4 months ago. With reason.

06-14-2010, 09:49 AM
rondo and perk are a good start for the future.

davis and robinson will be hard to retain, and personally as much as i love big baby i think he is too limited to ever be a real starter. can't defend good 4's. nate rob should stay and i think he can be retained. there is some talent to be had at 19 in the draft.

that being said, i think next year is their last shot at the ring. they will still have this balance of aging-but-effective veterans and improving young guys. after that, allen will be 38 and kg 37. pierce will be 36?

the holes in these other guys' games will start to show as they are relied upon more and more. you can't forget that these are all first ballot HOFers.

rondo perk davis ta draft pick is a decent start but in reality is 2-3 high quality players away from not being in the lottery.

06-14-2010, 09:53 AM
Depending how this offseason goes, I say 1-2 more years with this current core

06-14-2010, 10:30 AM
I think this team has potential to be very good for not just 5 years, but for 7-10 more years. Rajon Rondo is going to grow into possibly the best PG in the league. Perkins and Davis are going to form a very very dominant presence at PF/C for many years, and Garnett still has a couple years left with them as well. If this team can find a solid SG in the draft this year to replace Ray Allen this team is going to be very good.

PG: Rajon Rondo
SG: Draft Pick
SF: Paul Pierce
PF: Kevin Garnett
C: Kendrick Perkins
6: Nate Robinson
7: Tony Allen
8: Glen Davis
9. Draft Pick

That team can still compete in the playoffs for several more years. KG still has 2-3 more solid years in him. Not best PF in the league, but solid years. Pierce still has several years left in him. 5 very good years.

06-14-2010, 10:32 AM
if they dont win this year they wont win with this core of players again.

06-14-2010, 10:32 AM
unles they go on bribing refs of course.

joe j.09
06-14-2010, 10:35 AM
one more year two MAX

06-14-2010, 10:52 AM
Pending on what we can do in the draft and free agency can give us a run within the next few years.

This year's core has 1-2 years left MAX.

Geargo Wallace
06-14-2010, 11:06 AM
2 more years would be impressive. 5-6 no way unless they add some serious talent to the roster. Allen and Garnet wont be able to play at such a high level anymore. And I can see Pierce getting worse and more inconsistent.

06-14-2010, 11:53 AM
In my opinion this is their last shot.

06-14-2010, 11:54 AM
unles they go on bribing refs of course.

Who is this guy? Listen go to youtube and look up Lakers vs. Kings 2002. This guy gives Lakers fans a bad name.

06-14-2010, 12:30 PM
unles they go on bribing refs of course.

U must be drinking too deep of Jackson's gothtic brew - he had the nerve to complain about officials after game 2 when the Lakers were at the line 15 more times then the Celts. It's a tough game Billy Bob. The Celts beat up the Lakers and took their lunch money two years ago, and we may just see it again.

06-14-2010, 12:34 PM
W/ all due respect, and I LOVE what Boston has done the past 3 years...the championship window expires in a few days.

Rondo is a badass, and Pierce has a few years left, but KG seems to have lost his legs. The final piece, Rasheed is a no show and will age another year. Ray Allen will still contribute, but is also aging. Glen Davis and a 19th pick do not a championship team make.

I'm a Spurs fan. 1 thing I've learned is that when it goes, it goes. Duncan is aging and Manu and Tony are often hurt. They have young talent, but it's just not the same. Championships teams aren't solely about talent. It's about timing and the right core of guys. Like like the Patriots in football. They have more talent than they did when they won their rings, but the central core has split up. I see the same w/ the Celtics after this year. Sorry. Just the way I see it.

06-14-2010, 12:40 PM
U must be drinking too deep of Jackson's gothtic brew - he had the nerve to complain about officials after game 2 when the Lakers were at the line 15 more times then the Celts. It's a tough game Billy Bob. The Celts beat up the Lakers and took their lunch money two years ago, and we may just see it again.

thats what happens when teachers look the other way.

yanks 4lif3
06-14-2010, 12:51 PM
Take into consideration the shakeup of teams due to Free Agency the next two years also...I say their window is now...if they don't close it out this week, then its pretty much over.

06-14-2010, 12:59 PM
I think they still have a good year or two left if em. Mostly because of how Rondo, Perkins, and Big Baby have stepped up to take a lot of the burden off of the Big 3.

06-14-2010, 01:10 PM
I am impressed the Celtics have made it this far this season, one more win and they are champions once again. But the core is getting old, and their skills will only continue to diminish by having to play another long 82 game season. The team will start to rely more on Rondo, who does not have a very diverse offensive game. Plus Tony Allen will probably be gone, who knows where Robinson goes. With that said, this is their last and final shot, next year it's more likely to see teams with Kobe, Lebron, Wade, Howard in the finals. This is the biggest free agent year in NBA history, would not be suprised to see at least one team get monstrous, similar to the Celtics in 2008.

06-14-2010, 01:47 PM
i think it can RE open if they make use of paul pierces massice expiring contract at next years deadline. they can get some decnt pieces from teams looking to save money and they can start to build around rondo. they already filled the 2 hardest poistions to fill at pg and center plus they have solid bench guys in toney allen and glen davis.
in my opinion they should look to resign both allen and robinson and try to get rid of kg and paul pierce. if all that happens theyll be contenders for years to come however if not i find it hard to see the celtics stay healthy for a legitimate run at the championship.

06-14-2010, 01:51 PM
next year is their last year, It comes down to Garnett falling apart

Mc Lovin
06-14-2010, 02:02 PM
In my opinion this is their last shot.

No they have a couple more shots but not 5 or 6 years. Look at it this way. If they Celtics beat LA tomorrow then they beat the 3 best teams in the NBA on the road in 6 games a piece. That tells me that they are just better than those 3 teams right now so if they do get a little less consistent than they will probably still be on the same level as those 3 teams. When KG's contract is off the books they will have a whole lot of money to try to sign a superstar player with to compliment Rondo so they could be a contender for 5 or 6 years but with these guys 2 year looks about right.

06-14-2010, 03:15 PM
It all depends how they do drafting, if they don't do well then they're going back to their 20 win seasons in a year or two when pierce and allen can't carry them anymore. Unless they pull of a great trade and get a young all star for one of the big three, which i don't see happening any time soon

06-14-2010, 03:29 PM
This is their last year with this core IMO. People got to look at the financial aspect of it too.

First off they got some key free agents

-Robinson, Ray Allen, Tony Allen
-If Ray stays he's got to take a huge paycut, cause the Celts won't pay him 20 mill
-Robinson is gonna get better offers from other teams, and could get a starting position
-Tony Allen will want more money and will get good offers due to his defense this postseason--- very similar to the Posey situation IMO

On top of this Boston is still paying KG $40 million over the next 2 years... that's huge. Pierce gets $20 mill next year, and he hasn't signed an extension. Sheed is getting $13 mill over the next 2 years combined. Big Baby is a free agent after next year, and will get offered more money too. Its sad but financially teams can breakup over money issues, its happend before with great teams.

They've got a lot of money invested in older guys, I think Ray will sign with them for cheaper, but it has to be like an MLE at the most. People have to remember that the Celts organization put a lot of money into trying to get them to win right away, so they had to pay the price financially over the long run which they will over the next 2 years.

I personally think that they even know this is it for them, maybe next year at the absolute most.

People also got to remember that on top of the freeagents they have over the next 2 years, that they've already lost their defensive guru in Thibideau, and Doc might leave too.

The draft should help, but at the same time this is a very poor draft, even regarded as one of the weakest drafts in the past decade. If they fix their contracts with these older guys, and somehow convince other guys to stay for cheap, they'll be much better off for the future.

06-14-2010, 04:01 PM
If they stay with the Big 3, we only have MAYBE next season to compete.

Allen is too inconsistent to be starting, Garnett is old and wasting cap space, Pierce is still our scorer but he's no spring chicken either.

If they were smart they'd give Pierce the paycut he said he'd take (12M/14M?), see if they can restructure Garnett's contract, and get a stud player that can help us compete for along time after The Big 3 are gone. Can we say Joe Johnson anyone?

06-14-2010, 04:14 PM
I say next season is their last shot. I don't know about the big 3. That being said, they will have cap space, Rondo, Perkins, Davis, and maybe Tony Allen and Nate Robinson.

06-14-2010, 10:51 PM
nate robinson will get no offers to start for any teams. he is cementing his value as a bench player and that is not meant as an insult to him.

big baby will get an offer to start somewhere although i also think he lacks the physical attributes to start. he is too slow and undersized to defend real-deal 4s.

regardless, they will both get offers and the celts have to think hard about retaining them. they both fit very well into the celtics team plan

06-14-2010, 11:23 PM
like Jack says "Things Change"

06-14-2010, 11:36 PM
puff puff pass

don't **** up the rotation fellas! ;)

06-15-2010, 12:31 PM
I love that KG is averaging 18 and 8 in three home games, but I pretty much don't think we can count on him to do any more heavy lifting after this year or the next.... And no matter how much I love Big Baby, he isn't starter material. He's an energy bruiser. I think this is the last year we can get to the Finals with THIS starting lineup.