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View Full Version : If Chris Paul or Deron Williams took Rondo's place, how good would Boston be?



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Vinny642
06-09-2010, 10:22 PM
I say easily a 65+ win team. But I am curious, would they be better, worse, discuss....

gwrighter
06-09-2010, 10:27 PM
If rondo could hit the three then he would be the best if not top 5 PG in the league. you could always go to ESPN trade machine and trade Rondo for CP3 and see what the differences would be in the projected win total.

Vinny642
06-09-2010, 10:28 PM
I want your opinions.

asandhu23
06-09-2010, 10:33 PM
Better question: if Stephen Curry took Rondo's place, how good would Boston be?

Vinny642
06-09-2010, 10:35 PM
Better question: if Stephen Curry took Rondo's place, how good would Boston be?

A lot worse

n83417
06-09-2010, 10:37 PM
Better question: if Stephen Curry took Rondo's place, how good would Boston be?

a 35 win team. a pass first PG is exactly what the Celtics need. I'm not sure that the Celtics would be any better (Right Now) with Paul or Williams/

ToldYa
06-09-2010, 10:41 PM
they wouldnt be any better rondo fits the team perfectly

td0tsfinest
06-09-2010, 10:42 PM
They would definitely get more scoring from D-Will or Chris Paul.

Vinny642
06-09-2010, 10:42 PM
a 35 win team. a pass first PG is exactly what the Celtics need. I'm not sure that the Celtics would be any better (Right Now) with Paul or Williams/

WTF why not, CP and DWill are better scorers, not bad defenders, better leaders.... should I really go on?

thescore53
06-09-2010, 10:46 PM
Better question: if Stephen Curry took Rondo's place, how good would Boston be?

man your such a homer :p lets just say they'd wouldnt be where they are now

DengelBerry
06-09-2010, 10:46 PM
Wouldn't be as good, Rondo Fits that Offensive perfectly

thescore53
06-09-2010, 10:47 PM
WTF why not, CP and DWill are better scorers, not bad defenders, better leaders.... should I really go on?

no he responded someone saying how would they be with stephen curry instead

n83417
06-09-2010, 10:49 PM
WTF why not, CP and DWill are better scorers, not bad defenders, better leaders.... should I really go on?

I understand that. I just think that right now (with three excellent scorers in the starting lineup) that Rondo's game is perfect for this team. Not to mention best defensive PG. Best on-ball defender. (Among starting PGs)

Vinny642
06-09-2010, 10:50 PM
Wouldn't be as good, Rondo Fits that Offensive perfectly

If it was perfect the Celtics would be 3-0 wouldnt they?? There is always room for improvement

_KB24_
06-09-2010, 10:50 PM
Worse IMO, and I LOVE CP3. I would trade for him anyday of the week for any of the Lakers besides Kobe.

But Rondo is exactly what the C's need. A physically tough minded point guard who is a energy bug and can body up against others. Paul is not really that physical from what I see, I can be wrong though.

DCB/LAL
06-09-2010, 10:50 PM
WTF why not, CP and DWill are better scorers, not bad defenders, better leaders.... should I really go on?

Well if you already have the answer why ask the question??

And NO the Celtics would not be better off with CP3 or D-Will.

Did you make this thread to try and point out that Rondo is not as good as those guys and to go and say that the Celtics would be better with D-Will or CP3? Cause it seems like you did. :shrug:

mshan5
06-09-2010, 10:51 PM
Rondo is good for that team because he knows when he's needed to score. Deron Williams would be a better fit than CP3, though. CP3 defers to his teammates too much and this Celtics team simply wouldn't amount to what they have if they relied on the former Big Three to do all of their scoring.

n83417
06-09-2010, 10:51 PM
If it was perfect the Celtics would be 3-0 wouldnt they?? There is always room for improvement

He fits the team perfectly, doesn't mean it's a perfect team.

Vinny642
06-09-2010, 10:53 PM
I understand that. I just think that right now (with three excellent scorers in the starting lineup) that Rondo's game is perfect for this team. Not to mention best defensive PG. Best on-ball defender. (Among starting PGs)

3 Excellent scorers? Whoa buddy, they all lost a step. And thats where CP and Dwill's scoring would make up for it.

Vinny642
06-09-2010, 10:53 PM
He fits the team perfectly, doesn't mean it's a perfect team.

But there is room for improvement, let me ask you this-

Who is the best point guard in the league?

jerz89
06-09-2010, 10:56 PM
this final would be 3-0 boston with the 4 one coming tomorrow

n83417
06-09-2010, 10:56 PM
3 Excellent scorers? Whoa buddy, they all lost a step. And thats where CP and Dwill's scoring would make up for it.

They are excellent scorers. And sure they have lost a step, that is not debatable. However I think having 4 scorers on the floor at the same time would not benefit this team.

I am not saying Rondo is better than Paul or Williams, I just think as long as Ray Allen, Paul Pierce and Kevin Garnett are on the Boston Celtics team, they need a PG who prefers to defer. I think both Paul and D-Will are 50/50 in terms of pass/scoring mentality. Rondo's primary option is to pass, but he knows when to take over a game.

Vinny642
06-09-2010, 10:57 PM
Well if you already have the answer why ask the question??

And NO the Celtics would not be better off with CP3 or D-Will.

Did you make this thread to try and point out that Rondo is not as good as those guys and to go and say that the Celtics would be better with D-Will or CP3? Cause it seems like you did. :shrug:

Im pointing out how all these posters have a really short term of memory.

n83417
06-09-2010, 10:57 PM
But there is room for improvement, let me ask you this-

Who is the best point guard in the league?

As the great Herb Brooks once said when assembling the 1980 men's Olympic hockey team, "It's not about getting the best players, it's about getting the right players".

Rondo is the best PG in the league for the 2010 Boston Celtics.

Vinny642
06-09-2010, 10:59 PM
They are excellent scorers. And sure they have lost a step, that is not debatable. However I think having 4 scorers on the floor at the same time would not benefit this team.

I am not saying Rondo is better than Paul or Williams, I just think as long as Ray Allen, Paul Pierce and Kevin Garnett are on the Boston Celtics team, they need a PG who prefers to defer. I think both Paul and D-Will are 50/50 in terms of pass/scoring mentality. Rondo's primary option is to pass, but he knows when to take over a game.

I could see you really do not know too much about Paul. He usually looks to get his teammates involved in the game, but if they aren't doing their job, then he can become a scorer.

Vinny642
06-09-2010, 11:01 PM
As the great Herb Brooks once said when assembling the 1980 men's Olympic hockey team, "It's not about getting the best players, it's about getting the right players".

Rondo is the best PG in the league for the 2010 Boston Celtics.

I think that is debatable, I dont see why Paul or DWill would be less effective....

n83417
06-09-2010, 11:02 PM
I think that is debatable, I dont see why Paul or DWill would be less effective....

You obviously have an agenda. Have fun arguing with everyone who doesn't think that Paul would automatically make any team other than the Hornets the NBA Finals Champions.

tp13baby
06-09-2010, 11:04 PM
If it was perfect the Celtics would be 3-0 wouldnt they?? There is always room for improvement

lakers have more talent. I would take rajon rondo over chauncey for Denver. yupp i said it.

superkegger
06-09-2010, 11:04 PM
It's tought to say. With Deron or Paul, they'd be far and away the best player on the team. And that might disrupt some of the balance on the team. Plus, neither are the defender Rondo is. The Celtics are where they are now, because of their superb defense. Paul and Dwill don't fit that style of game.

Their offense would be better, but would that make them a better team overall? I don't know. Rondo is a superb point guard, and some people have thrown out the argument that he is the best pg in the game. Not saying he is, but at points in these playoffs, its been hard to argue that he's not.

So in all reality, I don't think the difference would be substantial if you replaced Rondo with Dwill or Paul. You gain some things offensively, but lost some defensively. And you'd disrupt the chemistry the team has to upgrade for just overall talent, which doesn't always mean the team would be better. Sometimes the guy just has to fit the team, and that's what makes the difference, not just how supremely talented he is.

Vinny642
06-09-2010, 11:04 PM
lakers have more talent. I would take rajon rondo over chauncey for Denver. yupp i said it.

LOL Im not debating if Rondo is a good PG or not, I think he is top 5 easily.

n83417
06-09-2010, 11:12 PM
People do have short memories. I hear you there. A few weeks ago, LBJ was the best player in the league. Now he is eliminated, and Kobe is the best player in the league. Funny how that happens. However, I don't honestly think that Chris Paul or D-Will straight up swap for Rondo would improve the team.

Defense/Chemistry would be disrupted... That is more important than adding 5-6 PPG from your PG.

Chicagofaithful
06-09-2010, 11:14 PM
they would be UNSTOPPABLE! ANYONE WHO SAYS ANYTHING DIFFERENT IS NUTS. seriously both of those guys are EASILY as good of playmakers as rondo but they are offensive weapons, both are just as good at defense as Rondo, and i mean think about it imagine If opposing guards had to step out to cover not just ray allen and Paul Pierce but now the point guard? It would make all the celtics significantly better...

Avenged
06-09-2010, 11:17 PM
CP3 and D-Will will add scoring to that team. Boston would get a playmaker, a leader, a top 2 point guard in the game. Rondo has all of those assets but Deron and Chris Paul do them better. It's really tough to say if they'd better since the Celtics are already that damn good.

Vinny642
06-09-2010, 11:18 PM
I understand chemistry would be an issue but they gain it over the course of a season... and they dont lose that much defense. CP is still a better stealer and better with passing lanes. And DWill can defend bigger guards. Its not like they have terrible defense.

n83417
06-09-2010, 11:20 PM
CP3 and D-Will will add scoring to that team. Boston would get a playmaker, a leader, a top 2 point guard in the game. Rondo has all of those assets but Deron and Chris Paul do them better. It's really tough to say if they'd better since the Celtics are already that damn good.

I agree, but How much scoring would it add? It would add a few points, but it would take shots away from Ray, Paul and KG. I don't think adding another scorer/sacrificing slightly on defense and possibly disrupting the chemistry would necessarily improve the Celtics.

bkmikeyy
06-09-2010, 11:20 PM
the celtics wanted to trade rondo for harris recently.
If NO or Utah called and said we will give you our PG for Rondo, a first round pick , and ray allen Ainge would do backflips.

JordansBulls
06-09-2010, 11:22 PM
I say easily a 65+ win team. But I am curious, would they be better, worse, discuss....

I can agree that last season maybe around 60+ wins.

n83417
06-09-2010, 11:23 PM
I can agree that last season maybe around 60+ wins.

That is funny they had 60 wins last year...

Avenged
06-09-2010, 11:25 PM
I agree, but How much scoring would it add? It would add a few points, but it would take shots away from Ray, Paul and KG. I don't think adding another scorer/sacrificing slightly on defense and possibly disrupting the chemistry would necessarily improve the Celtics.

I think if you add a PG like Deron or Chris Paul to a team, the team will be okay with them taking away shots from others. Especially a team like the Celtics who heavily stress team basketball. They're efficient scorers so I think taking away slightly less shots of others won't hurt them as much UNLESS guys start complaining BUT again, this Celtics team isn't like that.

And the whole chemistry issue, it would affect the team immediately. But over a course of a season you start building up chemistry. It's not like you can't gain it, you know?

Vinny642
06-09-2010, 11:27 PM
I think if you add a PG like Deron or Chris Paul to a team, the team will be okay with them taking away shots from others. Especially a team like the Celtics who heavily stress team basketball. They're efficient scorers so I think taking away slightly less shots of others won't hurt them as much UNLESS guys start complaining BUT again, this Celtics team isn't like that.

And the whole chemistry issue, it would affect the team immediately. But, over a course of a season, you start building up chemistry. It's not like you can't gain it, you know?

100% agreed. I dont see why CP or DWill couldnt fit with the team over the course of a season.

Yanks All Day
06-09-2010, 11:27 PM
Rondo is a better all around player right now that both of them. He fits the Celtics best. His rebounding is what sets him apart, in my opinion. He is such a tough player and fits the Celtics mindset. Paul and Williams are both better right now as players, but not as better fits for the Celtics team.

n83417
06-09-2010, 11:29 PM
I think if you add a PG like Deron or Chris Paul to a team, the team will be okay with them taking away shots from others. Especially a team like the Celtics who heavy stress team basketball. They're efficient scorers so I think them taking away slightly less shots of others won't hurt them as much UNLESS guys start complaining BUT again, this Celtics team isn't like that.

And the whole chemistry issue, it would affect the team immediately. But, over a course of a season, you start building up chemistry. It's not like you can't gain it, you know?

Yeah. I'm just favorable toward Rondo. I think he is the best possible fit to this team and their philosophy. Team ball, tough defense, valuing the basketball. Not to mention at times, he is their best offensive rebounder...

Nothing against Paul or Williams... But I have heard many say, as well as myself, that Rondo is perfect for this teams offensive and defensive philosophy. He is not necessarily the best, but as far as I am concerned, the right PG.

And if it ain't broke, why fix it? Maybe next year or later after Ray/ Pierce and KG decline/retire/leave via free agency... But right now, I think Rondo is perfect for this team.

avrpatsfan
06-09-2010, 11:31 PM
People do have short memories. I hear you there. A few weeks ago, LBJ was the best player in the league. Now he is eliminated, and Kobe is the best player in the league. Funny how that happens. However, I don't honestly think that Chris Paul or D-Will straight up swap for Rondo would improve the team.

Defense/Chemistry would be disrupted... That is more important than adding 5-6 PPG from your PG.

Not exactly. Remember in 2007 when KG, Pierce, and Allen all played together for the first time and didn't have any time playing with each other? What happened there?

Vinny642
06-09-2010, 11:32 PM
Lets say our GM Bower offered Paul for Rondo straight up, and you were the Gm would you accept?

n83417
06-09-2010, 11:33 PM
Not exactly. Remember in 2007 when KG, Pierce, and Allen all played together for the first time and didn't have any time playing with each other? What happened there?

Hmm. Good point.

Lu's Dynasty
06-09-2010, 11:36 PM
Celtics become a dynasty with Paul. Adding DWill wins them at least 2 titles.

n83417
06-09-2010, 11:36 PM
Lets say our GM Bower offered Paul for Rondo straight up, and you were the Gm would you accept?

I don't know. I think it would be beneficial long term, but not necessarily short term. I would be consulting every FO member, every coach and assistant, and even some players, fans, shareholders, season ticket holders, and might even go on the ESPN trade machine just to see what they would project.

I honestly don't know if I would.

Vinny642
06-09-2010, 11:40 PM
I don't know. I think it would be beneficial long term, but not necessarily short term. I would be consulting every FO member, every coach and assistant, and even some players, fans, shareholders, season ticket holders, and might even go on the ESPN trade machine just to see what they would project.

I honestly don't know if I would.

LOL Dont think I would offer Paul, hell no not for any player in the league.

Dmagic87
06-09-2010, 11:42 PM
They are a dynasty. Rondo is great. But he is overrated. They would be significantly better with CP3, D Will, Nash, Billups, J Kidd, Parker... probably Rose too.

Teams still don't respect Rondo. That is why he goes crazy.

n83417
06-09-2010, 11:43 PM
LOL Dont think I would offer Paul, hell no not for any player in the league.

You like your PG and I like mind. I would rather not disrupt a NBA Finals caliber team. Hey, Paul has missed 85 games in 5 years even though 37 were this year, to Rondo's 12 in 4 years...

GspLAL
06-09-2010, 11:44 PM
It would be interesting because you can't leave Paul open for a jumper like you can with Rondo.

n83417
06-09-2010, 11:45 PM
They are a dynasty. Rondo is great. But he is overrated. They would be significantly better with CP3, D Will, Nash, Billups, J Kidd, Parker... probably Rose too.

Teams still don't respect Rondo. That is why he goes crazy.

Better with Rose? Not a chance. Maybe if Rose was playing the 2 with. But certainly not in place of Rondo.

n83417
06-09-2010, 11:46 PM
It would be interesting because you can't leave Paul open for a jumper like you can with Rondo.

Rondo's jumper is much better than most think. He has been hitting it thus far in the Playoffs. His three/ FT are his only weakness.


His jumper certainly is not a strength, but it is no longer a weakness.

GspLAL
06-09-2010, 11:47 PM
Rondo's jumper is much better than most think. He has been hitting it thus far in the Playoffs. His three/ FT are his only weakness.


His jumper certainly is not a strength, but it is no longer a weakness.

Kobe sags off of him almost every play and he doesn't shoot it, if his shot was consistent like Pauls he would be shooting it a lot more.

kEviN21
06-09-2010, 11:47 PM
It's like saying what if Boston had Lebron over Pierce...random blah blah stuff to me and the answer is obvious

Vinny642
06-09-2010, 11:49 PM
Rondo's jumper is much better than most think. He has been hitting it thus far in the Playoffs. His three/ FT are his only weakness.


His jumper certainly is not a strength, but it is no longer a weakness.

LOL I wish CP had open jumpers, he is great from mid-range.

GspLAL
06-09-2010, 11:51 PM
I think CP3 can do everything Rondo does but better, plus he can hit his jumpers and 3s. Both are pretty similar defensively, good at stealing the ball and both gamble at times, Rondo is slightly better at being a lock down defender. People forgot how good CP3 was because of injuries.

n83417
06-09-2010, 11:52 PM
Kobe sags off of him almost every play and he doesn't shoot it, if his shot was consistent like Pauls he would be shooting it a lot more.

Yeah I have noticed that. He starts missing Free Throws and then gets scared to shoot. Kobe is basically an extra post defender. Hell, isn't that illegal defense?

GspLAL
06-09-2010, 11:53 PM
Yeah I have noticed that. He starts missing Free Throws and then gets scared to shoot. Kobe is basically an extra post defender. Hell, isn't that illegal defense?

How is it illegal? he doesn't camp the post.

Vinny642
06-09-2010, 11:53 PM
I think CP3 can do everything Rondo does but better, plus he can hit his jumpers and 3s. Both are pretty similar defensively, good at stealing the ball and both gamble at times, Rondo is slightly better at being a lock down defender. People forgot how good CP3 was because of injuries.

Yeah, that is one of my points in this thread.

Dmagic87
06-09-2010, 11:53 PM
There real question should be, when will the Lakers get a real PG??? Fisher has his one heroic game every once in awhile. But how about getting a PG that can consistently get Pao and Bynum the ball on time. And give Kobe the ball on time? The Lakers would be unstoppable with an above average PG.

beardown78
06-09-2010, 11:54 PM
O how quick we forget how good Chris Paul is and when healthy A top 5 player in the NBA. Chris Paul's down year statistically is better than Rondos career year. With Paul 63 wins easily

Lu's Dynasty
06-09-2010, 11:56 PM
They are a dynasty. Rondo is great. But he is overrated. They would be significantly better with CP3, D Will, Nash, Billups, J Kidd, Parker... probably Rose too.

Teams still don't respect Rondo. That is why he goes crazy.

Yeah..NBA teams don't "respect" Rondo...right. They don't pay as much attention to him like they do Pierce, KG and Allen because it's all a part of this grand strategy where not game planning to stop the "best" PG in the league leads to stopping those "other" 3 players. An NBA analyst who played the game noted today that the Lakers haven't even been treating Rondo like he is an NBA player defensively. Of course they need to pay more attention to the PG especially when driving lanes are easier to find with a guy like Allen outside and KG and Pierce on the court, but they have chosen to stop the obvious weapons on Boston. Rondo has game, but he's not as good as a lot of people think. He can penetrate, but I'd like to see him when teams actually do center their entire defensive strategy around keeping Rondo in check like teams do for Deron Williams and Chris Paul. Those two are the best. They make others better and teams focus their efforts on them because that is what teams do, which is focus on stopping the best player on the opposition.

NBA-GMaster
06-10-2010, 12:24 AM
Definitely a better team even without Paul Pierce..

IversonIsKrazy
06-10-2010, 12:30 AM
Deron would make it unstoppable. He has a SICK crossover, and KILLER 3, it wud be Boston over the top.

Duncan = Donkey
06-10-2010, 12:38 AM
Well Rondo is the most over rated player in the league.

With Deron or Paul i think they definetley be better.

Lakersho
06-10-2010, 01:00 AM
..cp3 and d. will are great point guards, but rondo also is a great reb. and because of that i wouldn't trade for either. rondo does what they need , and no he's not overrated...

Duncan = Donkey
06-10-2010, 01:01 AM
^^ yes he is over rated

jimbobjarree
06-10-2010, 01:05 AM
..cp3 and d. will are great point guards, but rondo also is a great reb. and because of that i wouldn't trade for either. rondo does what they need , and no he's not overrated...

yeah but cp3 and dwill actually have decent rebounders on their teams so they arent going to get the boards rondo does...even though rondo only averaged 0.4 more boards than Deron and 0.2 more boards than CP3

THE MTL
06-10-2010, 01:13 AM
I dont think they will be that much better. If Deron Williams was on the team, I could easily see them as worst. He had a completely different game from Rondo. Rondo has crafty passes, great defense, steals, speed while D-Will is more about scoring, big-guard play.

Now, I would say Boston would be better with CP3 (not by much though). Chris Paul brings the defense, speed, crafty passes that Rondo brings while adding the shooting and scoring touch as well.

tredigs
06-10-2010, 01:20 AM
If it was perfect the Celtics would be 3-0 wouldnt they?? There is always room for improvement

Can't stand when some of you make a thread asking a question with your agenda already decided -- then proceed to try and bash every opinion that goes against yours.

I also agree that they're probably a bit better with Rondo than with any other point, for a number of reasons. None of which you've earned the right to hear. Next time sit back and let the grownups talk if you want to start a discussion thread.

Tony_Starks
06-10-2010, 01:20 AM
With CP3 they'd be better, not by a whole lot but good enough to beat LA.

With Deron they'd be on a 3 peat right now. The fact that you actually have to defend him and he actually has a jumper would open up everyone else's game. Plus it gives you another 20+ scorer who can take over the game.

Truheatfan
06-10-2010, 01:34 AM
better especially williams on the c's because of his good shooting and distributing the defense just waits for rondo to go in the paint and kick it out if he had a jumper like cp3 or d will the defense would have to play him harder on the perimiterespecially on the pick and roll but with that said rondo is a great player and the skys the kimit for him

JPHX
06-10-2010, 01:54 AM
Deron on the Celtics would be straight vicious cuh.

ElMarroAfamado
06-10-2010, 01:57 AM
if any pg that could shoot was Bostons PG how good would they be?

ElMarroAfamado
06-10-2010, 01:59 AM
Can't stand when some of you make a thread asking a question with your agenda already decided -- then proceed to try and bash every opinion that goes against yours.

I also agree that they're probably a bit better with Rondo than with any other point, for a number of reasons. None of which you've earned the right to hear. Next time sit back and let the grownups talk if you want to start a discussion thread.

:rolleyes:

Shaddix
06-10-2010, 01:59 AM
How about if you replace KG with Amare. That's more significant scenario.

ldc62
06-10-2010, 03:10 AM
If they had Deron they would be the favorite vs. Lakers. Ditto Chris. But I am a huge Rondo fan...

RNess78c
06-10-2010, 03:43 AM
If Cp3 was there point they would be up 3-0 right now CP3 can score and pass when somebodys having a off night there CP3 would make up points wise and get the team into the game when allen went 0-13 CP3 would of stepped up...im just sayin!

Never talk trash about MJ....YOU'll go 0-13 hahaahaaaa

jackdawson
06-10-2010, 03:49 AM
Worse.

ldc62
06-10-2010, 03:51 AM
How about if you replace KG with Amare. That's more significant scenario.

They'd be worse... Amare's D is pure garbage, and im not even exaggerating.

kurivaimu
06-10-2010, 05:04 AM
If it was perfect the Celtics would be 3-0 wouldnt they?? There is always room for improvement

The question is would Cp3 or Deron be an improvement for the Celtics team. I think not. They are excellent players but both hold the ball much more than Rondo. What makes the Celtics good is teamplay and excellent ball movement, getting everybody involved.

Dré
06-10-2010, 05:56 AM
WTF why not, CP and DWill are better scorers, not bad defenders, better leaders.... should I really go on?

I agree that the Celtics would be a better team with CP3. Even after an injury plagued campaign, through 45 games, he was more productive while out on the floor, than either Rondo or Williams. Unfortunately, despite being more productive while out on the floor, he spent more than a third of the season sitting on the bench. And on the bench, you don't contribute to winning games.

With that being said, there's just no way I take Williams over Rondo. A lot of people dogged Rondo in 07-08 for being the weak link (and it's true he had his moments, being somewhat inconsistent at times). But even then, he was more productive (on a per minute basis of course), than Williams. Plus he comes cheaper (even though he's worth more); I mean who could argue with that?

Unruly Fan
06-10-2010, 08:24 AM
Scoring up. Rebounds down. Assists equal.

Unruly Fan
06-10-2010, 08:31 AM
The question is would Cp3 or Deron be an improvement for the Celtics team. I think not. They are excellent players but both hold the ball much more than Rondo. What makes the Celtics good is teamplay and excellent ball movement, getting everybody involved.They orchestrate the offense so technically they have to. I say both DWill and Cp3 have the ability to get the same amount of assists as Rondo coupled with the ability to go off scoring any given night. They may not get as many rebounds but they can shoot the ball/ spread the floor better. I'm not trying to take anything away from Rondo but DWill or Cp3 will add a scoring element Boston really needs right now.

pebloemer
06-10-2010, 08:32 AM
Depends how well Williams and Paul meshed with the big three and shared the ball. I have to say Rondo is a pretty nice fit in Boston.

magichatnumber9
06-10-2010, 08:59 AM
But there is room for improvement, let me ask you this-

Who is the best point guard in the league?
The best point guard in the league is D Will. According to Magic Johnson the best all around point guard in the league is Rajon Rondo. Cp3 is really good though so you have that.

HiphopRelated
06-10-2010, 09:38 AM
I agree that the Celtics would be a better team with CP3. Even after an injury plagued campaign, through 45 games, he was more productive while out on the floor, than either Rondo or Williams. Unfortunately, despite being more productive while out on the floor, he spent more than a third of the season sitting on the bench. And on the bench, you don't contribute to winning games.

With that being said, there's just no way I take Williams over Rondo. A lot of people dogged Rondo in 07-08 for being the weak link (and it's true he had his moments, being somewhat inconsistent at times). But even then, he was more productive (on a per minute basis of course), than Williams. Plus he comes cheaper (even though he's worth more); I mean who could argue with that?

I'm arguing

Hawkeye15
06-10-2010, 09:45 AM
They would own the best record in the league. Can you imagine who much easier life would be for the big 3, if their PG was a vialbe scoring option from all over the floor?
Rondo is a consistent jumper away from joining them, so there is your answer. They are basically as good as Rondo, but can score in multiple ways

Hawkeye15
06-10-2010, 09:46 AM
just breezing thru this thread, it amazes me yet again how much most of you underrated Chris Paul.

pebloemer
06-10-2010, 09:52 AM
Well Rondo is the most over rated player in the league.
With Deron or Paul i think they definetley be better.


..cp3 and d. will are great point guards, but rondo also is a great reb. and because of that i wouldn't trade for either. rondo does what they need , and no he's not overrated...


^^ yes he is over rated

I'm convinced.:eyebrow:

n83417
06-10-2010, 10:46 AM
How is it illegal? he doesn't camp the post.

I was being somewhat sarcastic, or exaggerating for emphasis.

awmathewsjr
06-10-2010, 10:54 AM
a 35 win team. a pass first PG is exactly what the Celtics need. I'm not sure that the Celtics would be any better (Right Now) with Paul or Williams/

I agree. You dont need a shoot first PG when you're playing with a star studded line up like the Celtics

ToldYa
06-10-2010, 11:48 AM
WTF why not, CP and DWill are better scorers, not bad defenders, better leaders.... should I really go on?

out the playoffs?..

DCB/LAL
06-10-2010, 11:48 AM
Can't stand when some of you make a thread asking a question with your agenda already decided -- then proceed to try and bash every opinion that goes against yours.

I also agree that they're probably a bit better with Rondo than with any other point, for a number of reasons. None of which you've earned the right to hear. Next time sit back and let the grownups talk if you want to start a discussion thread.

IDK if ive EVER agreed with you on anything but for once I AGREE with you.

ChongInc.
06-10-2010, 12:04 PM
With D-will, Amasing. With Paul... They would win a ton of games in the season, but bust in the playoffs.

Hawkeye15
06-10-2010, 12:06 PM
IDK if ive EVER agreed with you on anything but for once I AGREE with you.

haha, I tend to agree with TreDigs the majority of the time actually.

Hawkeye15
06-10-2010, 12:07 PM
With D-will, Amasing. With Paul... They would win a ton of games in the season, but bust in the playoffs.

why is that? The one year he had help in the playoffs, he put up a PER of over 30, and totally dominated.

Corey
06-10-2010, 01:08 PM
Neither would do as well as Rondo in THIS SYSTEM. That isn't saying Rondo is a better player, because he isn't...But he's the best point guard in the league for THIS TEAM.

JNA17
06-10-2010, 01:13 PM
You know, it's really annoying when people think just because player A is better then player B, means that player A will make Team B better then player B did.

Deron and Paul, both are no question the 2 best point guards in the game and are both better then rondo. However, just like every other team, the celtics play a system. That system, runs through rondo. Whether it's on offense or defense.

Just switching places with a better player does not all of a sudden mean it will help the team. If you don't believe me, just look at the magic this year.

xbrackattackx
06-10-2010, 01:21 PM
They would score more, But have less team play and Ball movement. Rondo is made for this team no matter how amazing Dwill or CP3 are.

Hawkeye15
06-10-2010, 01:31 PM
its not about simply switching teams. With Paul, the offense would be totally different. Same with Deron. I personally think the C's would be better with either of them. But I won't bash someone who disagrees, because none of us know. But you add a player of Paul's efficiency and his monster assist to turnover ratio with scorers and shooters, and I find it really hard to believe they don't improve

n83417
06-10-2010, 01:37 PM
They would score more, But have less team play and Ball movement. Rondo is made for this team no matter how amazing Dwill or CP3 are.

I agree entirely. Danny Ainge started scouting/recruiting Rondo when he was still in High School. Obviously Ainge didn't know he would pull off the Ray Allen/KG deals, but he had in the back of his mind that his superb drafting ability would land a few perfect trade chips for established scoring veterans. There is a reason Ainge refused to include Rondo in any trade, and much preferred to deal Gomes/Green/West/Telfair/picks with Jefferson and refused to deal Rondo.

At the time, Rondo was a gigantic weak spot on the Celtics. Ainge knew a passive distributor would be favorable on this Celtics team rather than a shoot first PG (Telfair/Delonte West) who at the time were considered better than Rondo, possibly with more upside.

xbrackattackx
06-10-2010, 01:37 PM
its not about simply switching teams. With Paul, the offense would be totally different. Same with Deron. I personally think the C's would be better with either of them. But I won't bash someone who disagrees, because none of us know. But you add a player of Paul's efficiency and his monster assist to turnover ratio with scorers and shooters, and I find it really hard to believe they don't improve

I thought this first but PP,Allen and KG need the ball and they run the ranks. I think Paul knows he is better than them at scoring and wouldn't Defer as much as Rondo when he know's they are better at scoring. Does that make sense? It's hard to type what I'm thinking ha.


As far as playing pure passing PG for them Rondo is better.
But Chris Paul would still look good there, Just not make KG,PP and Allen look as good.

BkOriginalOne
06-10-2010, 01:41 PM
Rondo is the best defender out of the 3 of them and he would still fit better on that team than the Paul or Williams.
But Paul and Williams are more talented, their outside shooting would change the way teams play them.

Hawkeye15
06-10-2010, 01:42 PM
again, it simply amazes me how many of you undervalue Paul. He is by far and away the best PG to come along since Stockton. Give him the help that some of the other so called great PG's in the league have, and LeBron would have company for best player in the world talk.

Hawkeye15
06-10-2010, 01:44 PM
Paul leads the league yearly in percentage of passes he distributes which leads to baskets directly, aka, assists. Not sure how having more help is going to hurt that number.

xbrackattackx
06-10-2010, 01:47 PM
Paul leads the league yearly in percentage of passes he distributes which leads to baskets directly, aka, assists. Not sure how having more help is going to hurt that number.

Yea but he was injured this season. Dwill and Rondo were not. Who knows if he is gonna be able to bounce back. Or if it will be like Mcgrady and Hill and nag him constantly.


IMO: I think D-will took that Number 1 spot from CP3 with his season play and his playoff play. He was a monster.

leftymo
06-10-2010, 01:48 PM
Replacing Rondo with CP3 or DWilliams would be great for this season, and probably the last 2 seasons, but make no mistake that Boston's window is closing.

Pierce/Allen/KG aren't going to last much longer. So regardless of how good they would be with another player, their playoff championship window would close regardless.



How good would the Lakers be with Lebron James at SF?

rhino17
06-10-2010, 01:49 PM
Rondo is the 2nd best PG right now only behind Deron, he would be the only guy who could improve their record

Hawkeye15
06-10-2010, 01:49 PM
Yea but he was injured this season. Dwill and Rondo were not. Who knows if he is gonna be able to bounce back. Or if it will be like Mcgrady and Hill and nag him constantly.


IMO: I think D-will took that Number 1 spot from CP3 with his season play and his playoff play. He was a monster.

while I will agree that Paul needs to regain his crown as best PG, a CP3 at 90% of what he was is still better than any other PG.

xbrackattackx
06-10-2010, 01:50 PM
while I will agree that Paul needs to regain his crown as best PG, a CP3 at 90% of what he was is still better than any other PG.

You really Believe that him at 90% is better then D-will? I mean I can see him being better than Rondo thats easy but Dwill broke out this year.


I think in 2 years Johnny Flynn will be in talk for Top 5-10 Pg. also, He was the most Underrated Rookie IMO

Hawkeye15
06-10-2010, 01:52 PM
You really Believe that him at 90% is better then D-will?

I ask you the same thing I do everytime these arguments come up. Find me one single statistical piece of evidence that Deron is better at Paul in anything. Paul is better at every single thing there is. The ONLY thing I give Deron is his ability to post up. And he doesn't even do that enough to merit attention.
Again, most of you just don't get how good Paul is. If the man had any help at all, he is pushing LeBron for MVP's.

Raoul Duke
06-10-2010, 01:54 PM
They'd be better this season with CP3 or D-Will, and they probably would've made it to the ECF last season, too. Then again, they'd be paying either of those guys significantly more than what they're paying Rondo. I'd take Rondo for 3 million over CP3 or D-Will at 8 figures apiece. Anyone know hoe much Rondo is on the books for next season, or just what he's supposed to make for the length of his extension?

Chicagofaithful
06-10-2010, 01:56 PM
Rondo is a better all around player right now that both of them. He fits the Celtics best. His rebounding is what sets him apart, in my opinion. He is such a tough player and fits the Celtics mindset. Paul and Williams are both better right now as players, but not as better fits for the Celtics team.

.....:facepalm:

Hawkeye15
06-10-2010, 01:56 PM
You really Believe that him at 90% is better then D-will? I mean I can see him being better than Rondo thats easy but Dwill broke out this year.


I think in 2 years Johnny Flynn will be in talk for Top 5-10 Pg. also, He was the most Underrated Rookie IMO

I think Flynn may be better suited as a scoring guard off the bench. And he needs to work on not trying to break his own record of most dribbles in a game every night. But I do like him

xbrackattackx
06-10-2010, 01:56 PM
I ask you the same thing I do everytime these arguments come up. Find me one single statistical piece of evidence that Deron is better at Paul in anything. Paul is better at every single thing there is. The ONLY thing I give Deron is his ability to post up. And he doesn't even do that enough to merit attention.
Again, most of you just don't get how good Paul is. If the man had any help at all, he is pushing LeBron for MVP's.

I am not Discrediting Paul or Saying he is bad or not skilled cause he is. I love Paul and Agree he needs a supporting cast. That's true. But Me saying he is number 2 in the league is not an Insult. And I would take D-will over Paul just cause I think D-will is more Fundamental and Paul is a Flashier player. I like Fundamental players.I think if you switch Paul with D-will Hornets still don't make it and Jazz still get eliminated they are that close IMO.

Hawkeye15
06-10-2010, 01:58 PM
They'd be better this season with CP3 or D-Will, and they probably would've made it to the ECF last season, too. Then again, they'd be paying either of those guys significantly more than what they're paying Rondo. I'd take Rondo for 3 million over CP3 or D-Will at 8 figures apiece. Anyone know hoe much Rondo is on the books for next season, or just what he's supposed to make for the length of his extension?

Rondo begins a 5 year, $55 million deal next season.

Raoul Duke
06-10-2010, 01:59 PM
You really Believe that him at 90% is better then D-will? I mean I can see him being better than Rondo thats easy but Dwill broke out this year.

I've heard so many people say "Williams had a breakout year!" which is complete and utter ********. The guy has been like a metronome the last three years. Almost no difference at all in terms of statistics.

Yes, he was great in the playoffs and had an impressively low turnover rate and he upped his scoring a little. But he's been this good for like 3 years straight. You're just now noticing.

Hawkeye15
06-10-2010, 01:59 PM
I am not Discrediting Paul or Saying he is bad or not skilled cause he is. I love Paul and Agree he needs a supporting cast. That's true. But Me saying he is number 2 in the league is not an Insult. And I would take D-will over Paul just cause I think D-will is more Fundamental and Paul is a Flashier player. I like Fundamental players.I think if you switch Paul with D-will Hornets still don't make it and Jazz still get eliminated they are that close IMO.

well, we can disagree. Paul rarely turns the ball over, while Deron does. And as I said, you won't find a single statistical piece of evidence where Paul doesn't win over Deron.

xbrackattackx
06-10-2010, 02:00 PM
well, we can disagree. Paul rarely turns the ball over, while Deron does. And as I said, you won't find a single statistical piece of evidence where Paul doesn't win over Deron.

Fair Enough.

Hawkeye15
06-10-2010, 02:01 PM
I've heard so many people say "Williams had a breakout year!" which is complete and utter ********. The guy has been like a metronome the last three years. Almost no difference at all in terms of statistics.

Yes, he was great in the playoffs and had an impressively low turnover rate and he upped his scoring a little. But he's been this good for like 3 years straight. You're just now noticing.

and yet the single time Paul was healthy and had teammates, his playoff efficiency numbers were superior across the line, including taking a dump on Deron's turnover numbers.

Raoul Duke
06-10-2010, 02:01 PM
And as I said, you won't find a single statistical piece of evidence where Paul doesn't win over Deron.

Who's had the advantage in head-to-head matchups?

Raoul Duke
06-10-2010, 02:04 PM
and yet the single time Paul was healthy and had teammates, his playoff efficiency numbers were superior across the line, including taking a dump on Deron's turnover numbers.

You're preaching to the choir, man. I think Paul is the best PG in the league and I think he has the potential to be one of the top 3 in NBA history. D-Will is so sexual though...

The NBA is filthy with great young PGs right now. It's a smorgasbord.

Hawkeye15
06-10-2010, 02:05 PM
Who's had the advantage in head-to-head matchups?

haha, the old card. Seasons are 82 games, not 3. Again, find me a single statistic Deron does better over the course of an NBA season. Good luck (though rebounding is the one wash between them)

Hawkeye15
06-10-2010, 02:06 PM
You're preaching to the choir, man. I think Paul is the best PG in the league and I think he has the potential to be one of the top 3 in NBA history. D-Will is so sexual though...

The NBA is filthy with great young PGs right now. It's a smorgasbord.

dude, I know. Its becoming the era of the PG slowly

Corey
06-10-2010, 02:28 PM
You know, it's really annoying when people think just because player A is better then player B, means that player A will make Team B better then player B did.

Deron and Paul, both are no question the 2 best point guards in the game and are both better then rondo. However, just like every other team, the celtics play a system. That system, runs through rondo. Whether it's on offense or defense.

Just switching places with a better player does not all of a sudden mean it will help the team. If you don't believe me, just look at the magic this year.
This post is 100% correct sir.

We have a winner.

THE MTL
06-10-2010, 03:23 PM
I hate how everyone undervalues Chris Paul on this team. Yeah, Celtics would be great with Deron Williams and only win a few more games with Chris Paul. Chris Paul is better than Deron Williams. CP3 has one unhealthy season and ppl just drop him.

He'll reclaim his spot next year though.

coloradobuff
06-10-2010, 03:47 PM
deron much better scorer..same w/paul..

Hawkeye15
06-10-2010, 03:49 PM
deron much better scorer..same w/paul..

Rondo is a much better defender than Deron, and slightly better than Paul, so really, Paul is the only player I think would virtually guarantee the C's more wins, and better success.

jimbobjarree
06-10-2010, 03:50 PM
I think Deron would fit in better than Paul would as he has shown he can run and play in a disciplined system, where as CP3 IS the Hornets system. There have been a few times in these playoffs where Rondo is dribbling around, nothings on and I've thought if that was Deron or Paul they would have probably drained the mid range J, thats the only area you'd point out for Rondo to improve, a little more aggresiveness and confidence on the offensive end, but it works I guess, I really wouldnt change anything.

Hawkeye15
06-10-2010, 03:55 PM
how many years does Rondo get to fix his horrid jumper though? Not to mention free throw shooting.

Mplsman
06-10-2010, 04:01 PM
With ray allen paul peirce kg and doc rivers to groom them like rondo, I can only imagine them being even better.

flinton
06-10-2010, 04:14 PM
Ok...I haven't really read all of the posts but they all seem to be saying pretty much the same thing. The fact of the matter is that Rondo does fit really well with the Celtics for the most part. Keep in mind that he is an offensive liability. CP3 and D Will both have to be guarded closely when they have the ball in their hand. The Celtics set a lot of on ball screens which both CP3 and D Will excel at. As far as the defense goes, CP3 is a great on ball defender but D Will isn't that great. That really doesn't matter much anyway because the Celtics play team defense. And on top of that, Rondo gets burned on defense, just as any other pg would, once double screens are set (which is what the magic started doing to get Jameer more space to create and score).


Sooo basically it just comes down to the offense and the Celtics would be best with CP3 on their team because he's like Rondo, but shorter with a better jumpshot.

Vinny642
06-10-2010, 04:27 PM
out the playoffs?..

This is the most ignorant statement.... EVER!

tredigs
06-10-2010, 04:49 PM
IDK if ive EVER agreed with you on anything but for once I AGREE with you.

I'm amazed when a Laker fan ever does ; ]

I'll say this, the elite shooting ability that the Celtics have make having a PG with 3 depth much less important than it would be on most teams. Which takes a lot of the advantage that Williams and Paul have over him out of the equation to an extent. Rondo fits this team to a tee; more so than any other point would.

Hawkeye15
06-10-2010, 04:50 PM
Ok...I haven't really read all of the posts but they all seem to be saying pretty much the same thing. The fact of the matter is that Rondo does fit really well with the Celtics for the most part. Keep in mind that he is an offensive liability. CP3 and D Will both have to be guarded closely when they have the ball in their hand. The Celtics set a lot of on ball screens which both CP3 and D Will excel at. As far as the defense goes, CP3 is a great on ball defender but D Will isn't that great. That really doesn't matter much anyway because the Celtics play team defense. And on top of that, Rondo gets burned on defense, just as any other pg would, once double screens are set (which is what the magic started doing to get Jameer more space to create and score).


Sooo basically it just comes down to the offense and the Celtics would be best with CP3 on their team because he's like Rondo, but shorter with a better jumpshot.


haha, 1st post and I already like this guy

J4KOP99
06-10-2010, 04:53 PM
With Chris Paul I don't know if they would ever lose. With D-Will, they might lose 5 times.

Oefarmy2005
06-10-2010, 04:53 PM
The bottom line is - Rondo has been the best PG in these playoffs, better than Williams and Paul's team didn't even make the playoffs. If I was starting a team from scratch I would still pick both Paul and Williams over Rondo because both play lights out in the regular season. If I was picking a PG only for the playoffs, I'd go with Rondo.

tredigs
06-10-2010, 04:57 PM
Ok...I haven't really read all of the posts but they all seem to be saying pretty much the same thing. The fact of the matter is that Rondo does fit really well with the Celtics for the most part. Keep in mind that he is an offensive liability. CP3 and D Will both have to be guarded closely when they have the ball in their hand. The Celtics set a lot of on ball screens which both CP3 and D Will excel at. As far as the defense goes, CP3 is a great on ball defender but D Will isn't that great. That really doesn't matter much anyway because the Celtics play team defense. And on top of that, Rondo gets burned on defense, just as any other pg would, once double screens are set (which is what the magic started doing to get Jameer more space to create and score).


Sooo basically it just comes down to the offense and the Celtics would be best with CP3 on their team because he's like Rondo, but shorter with a better jumpshot.

I think Paul would be a great fit for any team, including the Celtics, but the thing Rondo has over him is that he can penetrate virtually whenever he wants (Paul's good at this, Rondo's better) and absolutely burn his guard. He's so good at finishing in the paint that often times a wing defender is going to have to buckle slightly to play some help D; at which point, he finds one of two deadly shooters who are now open on the wing if they collapse too far (or, if the opponents PF or C is foolish enough to double, then he drops the easy deuce for KG/Perk). If not, he finishes. They do this over and over and over. It's so hard for a team to defend, and the main reason why their offense goes as Rondo goes.

On 90% of teams I'm taking Paul over Rondo. On the Celtics, I'm not.

Hawkeye15
06-10-2010, 04:58 PM
The bottom line is - Rondo has been the best PG in these playoffs, better than Williams and Paul's team didn't even make the playoffs. If I was starting a team from scratch I would still pick both Paul and Williams over Rondo because both play lights out in the regular season. If I was picking a PG only for the playoffs, I'd go with Rondo.

again though, the year Paul was healthy and had help at all, he literally blew the doors off what Rondo or Deron have done in the playoffs.
And over the bulk of the playoffs, Rondo has totally negated his ridiculous games with a few non existant. His efficiency is right back to where is usually is, 2nd tier PG.

Hawkeye15
06-10-2010, 05:00 PM
I think Paul would be a great fit for any team, including the Celtics, but the thing Rondo has over him is that he can penetrate virtually whenever he wants (Paul's good at this, Rondo's better) and absolutely burn his guard. He's so good at finishing in the paint that often times a wing defender is going to have to buckle slightly to play some help D; at which point, he finds one of two deadly shooters who are now open on the wing if they collapse too far. If not, he finishes.

On 90% of teams I'm taking Paul over Rondo. On the Celtics, I'm not.

the reason Rondo is capable of doing that is teams sag on him, so he already has momentum built up by the time he gets to his defender. Nobody can keep with a speedy PG that way. That is why I NEVER get why teams sag on Rondo. If Paul had the room to build momentum, and rely on his dominant change of direction at full speed with a backpeddling defender, nobody would have a chance on him either.
I take Paul 10/10 times man

Vinny642
06-10-2010, 05:00 PM
Hawkeye, people are ignorant as hell on the site, it just keeps getting less intelligent everyday. Let these people forget who Paul is and when he comes back and takes the league by storm once again, they'll STFU.

albertc86
06-10-2010, 05:01 PM
If rondo could hit the three then he would be the best if not top 5 PG in the league. you could always go to ESPN trade machine and trade Rondo for CP3 and see what the differences would be in the projected win total.

Wow, really? People still use the ESPN trade machine? It has always been a ridiculous tool. It's as dependable as using NBA Live and letting the computer play out a whole season.

Hawkeye15
06-10-2010, 05:01 PM
the other major difference? When Allen and Pierce are crapping all over the floor and can't hit the broad side of a barn, Paul will get you 30 that night. Rondo is good for 30 about three times a year, Paul can do it whenever he likes if his team is struggling

avrpatsfan
06-10-2010, 05:01 PM
The bottom line is - Rondo has been the best PG in these playoffs, better than Williams and Paul's team didn't even make the playoffs. If I was starting a team from scratch I would still pick both Paul and Williams over Rondo because both play lights out in the regular season. If I was picking a PG only for the playoffs, I'd go with Rondo.
Agreed. Rondo doesn't play as hard in the regular season.

Hawkeye15
06-10-2010, 05:02 PM
Wow, really? People still use the ESPN trade machine? It has always been a ridiculous tool. It's as dependable as using NBA Live and letting the computer play out a whole season.

I traded Mark Blount, Ryan Gomes, and Corey Brewer for LeBron earlier this season. Couldn't get Ferry to answer my calls when I asked when LJ was reporting to the Wolves

tredigs
06-10-2010, 05:08 PM
the reason Rondo is capable of doing that is teams sag on him, so he already has momentum built up by the time he gets to his defender. Nobody can keep with a speedy PG that way. That is why I NEVER get why teams sag on Rondo. If Paul had the room to build momentum, and rely on his dominant change of direction at full speed with a backpeddling defender, nobody would have a chance on him either.
I take Paul 10/10 times man

Well, they sag because his first step is so quick that they know they couldn't stay in front of him regardless, so they're just praying that he'll hoist the 15 footer, and if he doesn't at least the lane is a bit more clogged than it would have been had they been burned 5 feet sooner. I really don't think there's a better player in the league at the drive and dish/finish, and that's the perfect offensive weapon for a team with the Celtics makeup.

Rondo's top intangibles (toughness/clutchness as far as making plays happen late in the game -- which is a newer one for him) are pretty ideal for a playoff team of the C's caliber, also.

Chris Paul's one of the best points I've ever seen, so you couldn't go wrong taking him (and truth be told you could easily be right when he's 100%), but I still like Rondo for their team. It's not a laughable choice, like this homer-clown Vinny is trying to make it out to be.

azkarraga
06-10-2010, 05:09 PM
They'd be a much better team. Because you are all establishing CP and DW's game would be the same while on the Celtics, and it would not. If you think that you are insulting both intelligence. They both, and I'm not sure Rondo can change his play, are able to play in different ways. They both do score a lot. They wouldn't with the Celtics. They'd become two assits machines, pure PG's distributing the ball. Basically, what Rondo does but with much more accuracy and speed. Both of them.

Vinny642
06-10-2010, 05:11 PM
Well, they sag because his first step is so quick that they know they couldn't stay in front of him regardless, so they're just praying that he'll hoist the 15 footer, and if he doesn't at least the lane is a bit more clogged than it would have been had they been burned 5 feet sooner. I really don't think there's a better player in the league at the drive and dish/finish, and that's the perfect offensive weapon for a team with the Celtics makeup.

Chris Paul's one of the best points I've ever seen, so you couldn't go wrong taking him (and truth be told you could easily be right when he's 100%), but I still like Rondo for their team. It's not a laughable choice, like this homer-clown Vinny is trying to make it out to be.

Hey lil homie, I never said it is laughable but I think having CP on the Celtics swapped with Rondo, for the course of a season would be better.

albertc86
06-10-2010, 05:11 PM
No love for Parker? He may not be as exciting as the other three but come on now...

Hawkeye15
06-10-2010, 05:27 PM
Well, they sag because his first step is so quick that they know they couldn't stay in front of him regardless, so they're just praying that he'll hoist the 15 footer, and if he doesn't at least the lane is a bit more clogged than it would have been had they been burned 5 feet sooner. I really don't think there's a better player in the league at the drive and dish/finish, and that's the perfect offensive weapon for a team with the Celtics makeup.

Rondo's top intangibles (toughness/clutchness as far as making plays happen late in the game -- which is a newer one for him) are pretty ideal for a playoff team of the C's caliber, also.

Chris Paul's one of the best points I've ever seen, so you couldn't go wrong taking him (and truth be told you could easily be right when he's 100%), but I still like Rondo for their team. It's not a laughable choice, like this homer-clown Vinny is trying to make it out to be.


while I disagree with sagging on Rondo because it allows him to develop momentum, and look over the defense, I think its a combination of knowing they can't stay in front of him, and his HORRENDOUS jump shot that teams will give up all night. Paul finishes nearly as well, actually within percentage points, but he doesn't need to utilize the dribble drive as much. And Nash and Paul are just as good at the drive and find imo

While I think Paul is clearly the best PG in the world, of course its worth looking at team fit, etc before declaring anything.

Hawkeye15
06-10-2010, 05:29 PM
does anyone think Rondo would have developed like he has on a crappy team with no weapons btw? Worth a discussion

Vinny642
06-10-2010, 05:33 PM
does anyone think Rondo would have developed like he has on a crappy team with no weapons btw? Worth a discussion

Nope

GspLAL
06-10-2010, 05:39 PM
I don't get it what can Rondo do that Paul can't?

On Offense...I think Paul is a better passer and can read the defense better. He has a very good mid range jump shot and a 3 point shot so you can't sag off of him like the Lakers do. His offensive game is more complete than Rondos, his free throw shooting is like 85% while Rondo's is in the 60s, he's like what 3-12 in the finals? Rondo probably has quickness on Paul.

On defense...both are very similar, Rondo gambles for steals as does Chris Paul, and Paul averages more steals. You can argue that Rondo might be slightly better at lock down defending but I think it is overrated.

GspLAL
06-10-2010, 05:42 PM
You can't use Rondo's "playoff clutchness" and the way he has played in the playoffs to use it against Paul because Paul has never had a team close to being as good as the Celtics.

Hawkeye15
06-10-2010, 05:43 PM
You can't use Rondo's "playoff clutchness" and the way he has played in the playoffs to use it against Paul because Paul has never had a team close to being as good as the Celtics.

as I said, go look at Rondo's advanced playoff stats. He is right where he usually is. People tend to forget his dud games when he throws up the occasional triple double.

cabernetluver
06-10-2010, 05:51 PM
I think you all missed the important point, which is, not who is best, but would there be a significant improvement. Make no mistake, I am a Laker fan, that said, CP3, Deron Williams, Rondo are all very fine point guards. Each has things they do slightly better than the other two, but, frankly, it just would not make a difference in this series. It is not Rondo's failures that are hurting the Celtics. It is the Big 3 have not had a single game, where all 3 have shown up at the same time. Rondo has been just fine.

Hawkeye15
06-10-2010, 05:54 PM
I think you all missed the important point, which is, not who is best, but would there be a significant improvement. Make no mistake, I am a Laker fan, that said, CP3, Deron Williams, Rondo are all very fine point guards. Each has things they do slightly better than the other two, but, frankly, it just would not make a difference in this series. It is not Rondo's failures that are hurting the Celtics. It is the Big 3 have not had a single game, where all 3 have shown up at the same time. Rondo has been just fine.

no, Paul is better at virtually everything compared to the other 2. And as I stated above, if Allen and Pierce are playing terrible, Paul or Deron can score 30 anyday. Rondo needs his teammates scoring the points most of the time

cabernetluver
06-10-2010, 06:49 PM
no, Paul is better at virtually everything compared to the other 2. And as I stated above, if Allen and Pierce are playing terrible, Paul or Deron can score 30 anyday. Rondo needs his teammates scoring the points most of the time

How about steals. The game is played on both offense and defense. Want to take guess? During the regular season Rondo was top guard in the league. Rondo is by no means perfect. I am not saying he is the best in all or most categories. Frankly I really don't care who is best when answering this question. This thread asks essentially, would there be a significant difference with CP3 or Deron Williams (who for the record is my favorite of the three, although, for the Lakers, my team, I think I would want Westbrook because I love his upside)it would not make a difference. This team was built for the Big 3. As a trio, they have not shown up.

jazzman86
06-10-2010, 06:52 PM
Wow! This argument is absolutely ridiculous! Rondo has had a coming out party in these playoffs and so many people are starting to put him in the conversation with Deron and CP. I think that if Rondo had 3pt range, he, deron and CP would be the best 3 pgs in no particular order.
That being said...Rondo is the perfect fit for the Celtics when the Big 3 are playing well but I do think he needs great players around him to play at this level. The other two guys are the focal point of every defense that they play against. Deron and CP3 are the perfect fit for any team in the league whether their teammates are playing well or not. Both can score 30 like its nothing. Both can put up 15 assists like its nothing. Both can do that while they are the only hall of famers on their teams.
They would all be great but I think Deron would be the best fit of the three in Boston because he already plays in a strict system that is predicated on ball movement and good teamwork. If the play breaks down, Deron can get in the paint and create something anytime he wants. Also, Kobe couldn't just sit down in the paint and leave Deron wide open all game.

GspLAL
06-10-2010, 06:57 PM
How about steals. The game is played on both offense and defense. Want to take guess? During the regular season Rondo was top guard in the league. Rondo is by no means perfect. I am not saying he is the best in all or most categories. Frankly I really don't care who is best when answering this question. This thread asks essentially, would there be a significant difference with CP3 or Deron Williams (who for the record is my favorite of the three, although, for the Lakers, my team, I think I would want Westbrook because I love his upside)it would not make a difference. This team was built for the Big 3. As a trio, they have not shown up.

CP3 averages 2.4 steals in his career so far.

Vinny642
06-10-2010, 06:59 PM
Wow! This argument is absolutely ridiculous! Rondo has had a coming out party in these playoffs and so many people are starting to put him in the conversation with Deron and CP. I think that if Rondo had 3pt range, he, deron and CP would be the best 3 pgs in no particular order.
That being said...Rondo is the perfect fit for the Celtics when the Big 3 are playing well but I do think he needs great players around him to play at this level. The other two guys are the focal point of every defense that they play against. Deron and CP3 are the perfect fit for any team in the league whether their teammates are playing well or not. Both can score 30 like its nothing. Both can put up 15 assists like its nothing. Both can do that while they are the only hall of famers on their teams.
They would all be great but I think Deron would be the best fit of the three in Boston because he already plays in a strict system that is predicated on ball movement and good teamwork. If the play breaks down, Deron can get in the paint and create something anytime he wants. Also, Kobe couldn't just sit down in the paint and leave Deron wide open all game.

This is 100% correct.

albertc86
06-10-2010, 07:04 PM
I traded Mark Blount, Ryan Gomes, and Corey Brewer for LeBron earlier this season. Couldn't get Ferry to answer my calls when I asked when LJ was reporting to the Wolves

Exactly. That's why I said it's a ridiculous tool for the pipe dreamers.

jazzman86
06-10-2010, 07:04 PM
Thanks Vinny!

jazzman86
06-10-2010, 07:06 PM
By the way, I have MAD RESPECT for CP3! He is constantly blowing my mind. I bet he has four or more 20 assist games next year just to spite everyone who started to doubt him.

Vinny642
06-10-2010, 07:20 PM
By the way, I have MAD RESPECT for CP3! He is constantly blowing my mind. I bet he has four or more 20 assist games next year just to spite everyone who started to doubt him.

lol I love having him as a Hornet, its the same with Deron for me, Deron is easily my second favorite point guard. He is the only one anywhere near Paul's level, I wouldnt argue to call them even. They are too different types of PGs though.

jazzman86
06-10-2010, 07:23 PM
lol I love having him as a Hornet, its the same with Deron for me, Deron is easily my second favorite point guard. He is the only one anywhere near Paul's level, I wouldnt argue to call them even. They are too different types of PGs though.

Different point guards, differents skill sets, different systems, different expectations, etc... Both are just AMAZING!
Rondo will be there soon! His jumpshot and free throw shooting will get better over the years.

X12Celtics3
06-10-2010, 07:29 PM
As a Celtics fan, there is no point guard that I'd rather have on this team than Rajon Rondo.

Hawkeye15
06-10-2010, 08:27 PM
How about steals. The game is played on both offense and defense. Want to take guess? During the regular season Rondo was top guard in the league. Rondo is by no means perfect. I am not saying he is the best in all or most categories. Frankly I really don't care who is best when answering this question. This thread asks essentially, would there be a significant difference with CP3 or Deron Williams (who for the record is my favorite of the three, although, for the Lakers, my team, I think I would want Westbrook because I love his upside)it would not make a difference. This team was built for the Big 3. As a trio, they have not shown up.

career wise, Paul has a better steal percentage, and was behind Rondo because of injury. Paul led the league the previous 2 seasons.

Hawkeye15
06-10-2010, 08:30 PM
Wow! This argument is absolutely ridiculous! Rondo has had a coming out party in these playoffs and so many people are starting to put him in the conversation with Deron and CP. I think that if Rondo had 3pt range, he, deron and CP would be the best 3 pgs in no particular order.
That being said...Rondo is the perfect fit for the Celtics when the Big 3 are playing well but I do think he needs great players around him to play at this level. The other two guys are the focal point of every defense that they play against. Deron and CP3 are the perfect fit for any team in the league whether their teammates are playing well or not. Both can score 30 like its nothing. Both can put up 15 assists like its nothing. Both can do that while they are the only hall of famers on their teams.
They would all be great but I think Deron would be the best fit of the three in Boston because he already plays in a strict system that is predicated on ball movement and good teamwork. If the play breaks down, Deron can get in the paint and create something anytime he wants. Also, Kobe couldn't just sit down in the paint and leave Deron wide open all game.

I can agree with much of this, although I do think Paul would thrive in any system you put in front of him. That is the beauty of advanced metrics and stats, they don't care what pace you play at, or what kind of offense you play in. Paul is the best PG in the league easily, and would be an upgrade over anyone, any system
But you do make valid points

Nighthawk
06-10-2010, 08:30 PM
As a Celtics fan, there is no point guard that I'd rather have on this team than Rajon Rondo.

i agree.

However that opinion could always change if i actually seen williams or paul wit tis team. If we had Williams on this current team Kobe wouldnt be sagging off so much the way he does Rondo. I also think Williams would push it more consistently than Rondo.

Rondo has proved to just be the perfect fit for this system. So Williams an Paul can stay in Utah and NO

Hawkeye15
06-10-2010, 08:32 PM
Paul

Deron
Nash

Rondo
Parker
Billups

Rose
Westbrook

there ya go peeps

knickfan4life
06-10-2010, 08:40 PM
Paul

Deron
Nash

Rondo
Parker
Billups

Rose
Westbrook

there ya go peeps

i think billups shud b up there w/ deron n nash... he makes his team dangerous in the playoffs, more so than nash IMO

Hawkeye15
06-10-2010, 08:43 PM
i think billups shud b up there w/ deron n nash... he makes his team dangerous in the playoffs, more so than nash IMO

I hear ya, but Denver was out quick this year. But I am not gonna argue you

yankkiller
06-10-2010, 09:05 PM
a 35 win team. a pass first PG is exactly what the Celtics need. I'm not sure that the Celtics would be any better (Right Now) with Paul or Williams/

The whole team passes so having a PG that passes and shots well would beneifit us so CPS would make this team a 65 win team, even thou id rather have nash

ToldYa
06-10-2010, 10:27 PM
This is the most ignorant statement.... EVER!

how so? ..they cant even get farther than rondo in the playoffs

Hawkeye15
06-10-2010, 10:40 PM
how so? ..they cant even get farther than rondo in the playoffs

you underrate playing in the west apparently. The west before this year, was so much stronger in the top teams its not even funny. Rondo was blessed with 3 hall of famers early, and is still surrounded by more talent than either, and in a much easier conference.

ToldYa
06-10-2010, 11:25 PM
you underrate playing in the west apparently. The west before this year, was so much stronger in the top teams its not even funny. Rondo was blessed with 3 hall of famers early, and is still surrounded by more talent than either, and in a much easier conference.

oh? cause thread starter said big three lost a step now and they barely effective :eyebrow:

TheGsw
06-11-2010, 02:02 AM
Put Smush Parker, theyd probably make the finals still. lol

smiddy012
06-11-2010, 03:29 AM
Theyd be better with Deron, worse with Paul imo. Deron wins because of his clutch shot making ability. Hes probably the most complete pg of the three.

Hawkeye15
06-11-2010, 08:04 AM
oh? cause thread starter said big three lost a step now and they barely effective :eyebrow:

not buying that. Sure they have lost a step. Still better than pretty much any other trio out there

pebloemer
06-11-2010, 08:39 AM
Paul

Deron
Nash

Rondo
Parker
Billups

Rose
Westbrook

there ya go peeps

Nice way to break it down. Lot of excellent point guards out there to watch these days isn't there?

PrettyBoyJ
06-11-2010, 08:40 AM
CP3 and D-Will are better play makers then Rondo and are more complete players..

Vinny642
06-12-2010, 08:55 PM
how so? ..they cant even get farther than rondo in the playoffs

Your saying CP and the HORNETS cant make it further that Rondo and the Celtics, well DUH!!! I wanna see what Rondo can do with the Hornets roster, I already know the answer, NOTHING! Paul makes a garbage squad into a playoff team.

surf and turf
06-12-2010, 09:00 PM
Its hard to say. You gain a better outside shot with either one of them. But you lose the league leader in steals, priceless rebounding ability from a PG , and uncanny court sense in transition and half court and the qiuckest guy in the NBA with the ball in his hands.

Vinny642
06-12-2010, 09:05 PM
Its hard to say. You gain a better outside shot with either one of them. But you lose the league leader in steals, priceless rebounding ability from a PG , and uncanny court sense in transition and half court and the qiuckest guy in the NBA with the ball in his hands.

Im gonna say this once, Chris Paul is a better stealer than Rajon Rondo. Before this season he led the season in stealing for two years straight, and then got injured this season.

JNA17
06-12-2010, 09:17 PM
why is this thread still going on? and Vinny for the love of god how many posts do you have in this thread? lol

Vinny642
06-12-2010, 09:27 PM
why is this thread still going on? and Vinny for the love of god how many posts do you have in this thread? lol

Quite a few :D LOL I am done, I already made my argument and no one found a logical way to beat it.

Hawkeye15
06-12-2010, 09:36 PM
Its hard to say. You gain a better outside shot with either one of them. But you lose the league leader in steals, priceless rebounding ability from a PG , and uncanny court sense in transition and half court and the qiuckest guy in the NBA with the ball in his hands.

Paul is better at steals for his career. He also has 2 seasons with higher steal rates than Rondo has ever had. And court sense? Paul is the best in the world at that currently. Sorry, if you assist 50% of the baskets scored by your team while on the floor with his cast, you are the definition of distributor. He gives his teammates such easy shots, even they can knock them down
By the way, Rondo just had easily his worst rebounding season in the NBA this year. He is the best rebounding PG in the league imo, but his rebounding was down this season. He also turns the ball over at more than twice the rate of Paul
Its frustrating reading these threads. Chris Paul is the best PG we have seen in years. And I mean YEARS. But we still have to read these threads

JNA17
06-12-2010, 09:59 PM
Quite a few :D LOL I am done, I already made my argument and no one found a logical way to beat it.


"logic is overrated." - quote from all the politicians in America.

vinod
06-12-2010, 10:01 PM
Guys, if Kobe Bryant played in place of Ray Allen, how good would Boston be?

Tmac,lt,berkman
06-12-2010, 10:27 PM
Nice way to break it down. Lot of excellent point guards out there to watch these days isn't there?

wat about aaron brooks?

Hawkeye15
06-12-2010, 10:47 PM
wat about aaron brooks?

what about him? High volume shooter who doesn't defend well, and has minimal distribution skills in the halfcourt.
I love Brooks, but he is going to be better suited being the spark off the bench for a contender

MacFitz92
06-12-2010, 10:50 PM
I think Rondo is the best fit for Boston out of any PGs in the league.

Best defensive PG + pass first.

I also think these kinds of threads are a waist of time.

Hawkeye15
06-12-2010, 10:52 PM
I think Rondo is the best fit for Boston out of any PGs in the league.

Best defensive PG + pass first.

I also think these kinds of threads are a waist of time.

please quantify how he is the best defensive PG, and the best distributor. And f I couldn't shoot a free throw, I would look to pass first.
I do agree with your last statement though

Hawkeye15
06-12-2010, 10:53 PM
I am not going away on this. Paul is statistically the best PG since Stockton, and actually could end up better than him. If he ever gets some help around him, people will be wondering why they ever bothered to question him as the best PG in the league

magichatnumber9
06-12-2010, 11:06 PM
This is all just a cop out for Deron and Paul. Oh my god this is so easy, you have a situation that is impossible. Truth is we don't know and that's it. we can use statistics but those are missing the human element. Rondo is a game changer and there are no statistics for that. The steals almost always turn into fast break point and momentum swingers. Deron and Paul are very accurate scores par defenders with above average basketball IQ's. Regardless this thread is just entertainment and very redundant. When we say someone is the best point guard in the league 85-95% percent of the time were talking about offensive arsenal and range and that's it. No one really cares about defensive statistics. And don't come here and say you do because that's a crock.

Sportfan
06-12-2010, 11:16 PM
please quantify how he is the best defensive PG, and the best distributor. And f I couldn't shoot a free throw, I would look to pass first.
I do agree with your last statement though
Because he has the highest defensive rating for all PG's?

Distributor? Just watch the playoffs and you can see he's right with Nash. he's surpassed Paul. (btw D-Will>Paul)

goose15
06-12-2010, 11:26 PM
What if they still had Bob Cousy??

Hawkeye15
06-13-2010, 10:53 AM
Because he has the highest defensive rating for all PG's?

Distributor? Just watch the playoffs and you can see he's right with Nash. he's surpassed Paul. (btw D-Will>Paul)

You are basing this rating off Chris Paul's one year of injury, when career wise, Paul is right there with Rondo in rating, and steal %. And Rondo's STRENGTH is his defense, yet Paul is literally right behind him, while taking a complete dump on Rondo offensively.
Distributor? Watching games is a partial way to evaluate this. The other is statistics. Rondo's playoffs are right on par with regular season, with a 41% assist rate. Paul has put up a 50%, and 60% in the playoffs, and is far above Rondo career wise. On top of that, the assist to turnover rate is all Paul.
My point is, and I continue to make it, is its funny how quickly you people forget how dominant Paul really is. But, no worries, he will be healthy again next season, and then we can go back to, "Who is the #2 PG in the NBA" threads

97NYer
06-13-2010, 11:06 AM
I am not going away on this. Paul is statistically the best PG since Stockton, and actually could end up better than him. If he ever gets some help around him, people will be wondering why they ever bothered to question him as the best PG in the league

Yea IMO he is still on top I don't understand how Deron became the best PG all of a sudden when his stats were almost identical to CP3.

Hawkeye15
06-13-2010, 11:50 AM
Yea IMO he is still on top I don't understand how Deron became the best PG all of a sudden when his stats were almost identical to CP3.

Pauls were better across the board actually, even in an injury season with no help.
And again, when Paul is healthy again next season, and if New Orleans can ever get him some help, everyone will remember how awesome he really is

hugepatsfan
06-13-2010, 01:14 PM
Pauls were better across the board actually, even in an injury season with no help.
And again, when Paul is healthy again next season, and if New Orleans can ever get him some help, everyone will remember how awesome he really is

CP3 is a scoring PG. He is a great passer too, but when the game is on the line, he is a scorer first. For the Celtics, that doesn't play to their strengths. CP3 might actually be a better passer, but he is a scorer first. That's why he is a better player overall, but Rondo fits better for the Celtics. (This same logic applies to Derrick Rose as well.)

Hawkeye15
06-13-2010, 01:24 PM
CP3 is a scoring PG. He is a great passer too, but when the game is on the line, he is a scorer first. For the Celtics, that doesn't play to their strengths. CP3 might actually be a better passer, but he is a scorer first. That's why he is a better player overall, but Rondo fits better for the Celtics. (This same logic applies to Derrick Rose as well.)

he has to be a scorer on his team, and his ability to do so makes his coach ask him to score as well. If he had the firepower around him that Rondo does, you would see a different Paul, averaging over 12 apg I would guess

hugepatsfan
06-13-2010, 01:29 PM
he has to be a scorer on his team, and his ability to do so makes his coach ask him to score as well. If he had the firepower around him that Rondo does, you would see a different Paul, averaging over 12 apg I would guess

I think CP3 is a great passer. But when I see him play, I see a guy that is a scorer first and a passer 2nd. That doesn't mean he isn't a sensational passer. The fact that he is so good as it despite being a scorer first is what makes him such a great player. Another thing to consider is that Rondo has to share the ball with Pierce (a lot of the offense goes through him) and KG (at least earlier in the Big 3 era we used to post him up a lot). Rondo doesn't get to dominate the ball like Paul does.

People say Rondo hasn't proven himself without the Big 3, but I think it is harder to get a bunch of great guys involved than it is to be the man in some ways. How many guys can put up great stats on a subpar team - a lot. But there are very few guys that can toe that line as a scorer and master distributor. Rondo is the best i've seen other than Kidd at controlling the game as a distributor without being the scoring focal point.

Raoul Duke
06-13-2010, 01:29 PM
CP3 is a scoring PG.

I disagree. To me, the term "scoring PG" applies to players who are almost hybrid guards, who lack the court vision and the passing ability of a really great pure point (Nash, Kidd) and therefore rely on their scoring ability to open up teammates (Chauncey, Jameer Nelson). I admit, it's kind of semantics. It just seems like you might as well say Magic was a scoring PG. I don't see how the fact that they are gifted scorers diminishes their ability to run the offense.

Also, I have to change my earlier opinion. I don't think the C's would be any better with CP3 or Williams at the point. Rondo has his shortcomings, but god damn if he doesn't get after each and every loose ball with a tenacity you seldom see. The main thing that I think would change if you took Rondo off the team is that slick cockiness, the brass swagger. It's one of their biggest strengths.

Hawkeye15
06-13-2010, 01:41 PM
I think CP3 is a great passer. But when I see him play, I see a guy that is a scorer first and a passer 2nd. That doesn't mean he isn't a sensational passer. The fact that he is so good as it despite being a scorer first is what makes him such a great player. Another thing to consider is that Rondo has to share the ball with Pierce (a lot of the offense goes through him) and KG (at least earlier in the Big 3 era we used to post him up a lot). Rondo doesn't get to dominate the ball like Paul does.

People say Rondo hasn't proven himself without the Big 3, but I think it is harder to get a bunch of great guys involved than it is to be the man in some ways. How many guys can put up great stats on a subpar team - a lot. But there are very few guys that can toe that line as a scorer and master distributor. Rondo is the best i've seen other than Kidd at controlling the game as a distributor without being the scoring focal point.

When you are the most efficient scorer on the floor, you are hurting your team if you don't push the issue. Paul would make life easier for anyone in the league, because he is not only the best passer in the halfcourt setting, he is also a great scorer, and needs to be respected all over the floor. You couldn't roam while guarding him like Rondo's opponents do. Rondo is a great passer in transition, but he doesn't blow me away with his passing in the pick and roll, or on cutters, both of which Paul is elite at.
as far as usage, I would want the ball in Paul's hands all the time too, good things happen. Rondo has various scenarios where they don't want him anywhere near the ball. That alone should send off an alarm when comparing the two. I can not be convinced otherwise that if you replace all 29 teams starting PG with Chris Paul, they don't get better instantly.

And as far as Rondo proving himself, that convo was over in last year's playoffs. While the big 3 were either hurt or struggling, he kept them winning. Rondo is awesome, don't get me wrong. But he isn't in the same class as Chris Paul, and I would obviously take Deron over him as well

hugepatsfan
06-13-2010, 01:57 PM
When you are the most efficient scorer on the floor, you are hurting your team if you don't push the issue. Paul would make life easier for anyone in the league, because he is not only the best passer in the halfcourt setting, he is also a great scorer, and needs to be respected all over the floor. You couldn't roam while guarding him like Rondo's opponents do. Rondo is a great passer in transition, but he doesn't blow me away with his passing in the pick and roll, or on cutters, both of which Paul is elite at.
as far as usage, I would want the ball in Paul's hands all the time too, good things happen. Rondo has various scenarios where they don't want him anywhere near the ball. That alone should send off an alarm when comparing the two. I can not be convinced otherwise that if you replace all 29 teams starting PG with Chris Paul, they don't get better instantly.

And as far as Rondo proving himself, that convo was over in last year's playoffs. While the big 3 were either hurt or struggling, he kept them winning. Rondo is awesome, don't get me wrong. But he isn't in the same class as Chris Paul, and I would obviously take Deron over him as well

I agree with this. But if you put Paul on the Celtics and gave him the ball all the time, Pierce and KG wouldn't be as effective, IMO. If Paul came to the Celtics, they would have to switch up a lot of what they do on offense. What they're doing seems to be working pretty well (got them to the finals), so I would stick with Rondo. But Paul is without a doubt they guy I'd take if starting a franchise. But there's a difference between best player and best fit.

Hawkeye15
06-13-2010, 01:58 PM
I will agree that Rondo is working out just fine for the C's. And at this point, I am fairly sure my stance is understood haha, so I will bow out so I don't sound like a broken record

Avenged
06-13-2010, 02:05 PM
Rondo is a great fit for the Celtics but if you replace him with Chris Paul or Deron Williams, there's no question they would be better off. And the whole they don't play good defense is a bit off in my opinion because a lot of players in the Celtics weren't known as good defenders and the ones that were, weren't considered great defenders but now they are. You put Deron or Paul in a defensive system and they'll excel at it as well.

Bruno
06-13-2010, 04:34 PM
I say easily a 65+ win team. But I am curious, would they be better, worse, discuss....

Agreed, and they'd be the champs as well. Not at knock on Rondo- he's great. But Paul and D. Will can score whenever they want and sometimes that's the kind of player the Celtics need when guys get stagnant.

fadedmario
06-13-2010, 04:48 PM
Chris Paul would get hurt, so they would suck. Deron would probably make them better. Stephen Curry will be the league's number 1 pg within 2 years anyway.

Vinny642
06-13-2010, 04:50 PM
Chris Paul would get hurt, so they would suck. Deron would probably make them better. Stephen Curry will be the league's number 1 pg within 2 years anyway.

LOL sooo much ignorance in one post...

fadedmario
06-13-2010, 04:54 PM
LOL sooo much ignorance in one post...

Curry's numbers will look something like

22 ppg, 6 rbs, 8 ast, by next year. What's so ignorant about that. Paul can't stay healthy. I'm not even a Warriors fan. Unless Wall ends up being light out, Curry will be unstoppable sooner than later. The best 3 point shot since Reggie Miller.

fadedmario
06-13-2010, 04:55 PM
LOL sooo much ignorance in one post...

Oh. your a Chris paul fan. Of course your going to get defensive.

Hawkeye15
06-13-2010, 05:00 PM
Chris Paul would get hurt, so they would suck. Deron would probably make them better. Stephen Curry will be the league's number 1 pg within 2 years anyway.

go look at Paul's rookie year compared to Curry's. Paul was far better. Curry is in no way a threat to take Paul off the top of the hill. Curry will be a good guard, but he has a long ways to go before he joins the elite PG class.

Sox Appeal
06-13-2010, 05:00 PM
Lol @ anyone saying the Celtics are better off with Rondo, then Chris Paul. He's far and away the best PG in the league. The fact he was injured this year, makes people forget about how dominate he's been the past few seasons.

There are only a few players in the league I consider superstars, LeBron, Wade, Kobe, Chris Paul, and Dwight. No disrespect to Rondo, but he's not anywhere near these guys, nor will he be anytime soon.

Bruno
06-13-2010, 05:01 PM
Chris Paul would get hurt, so they would suck. Deron would probably make them better. Stephen Curry will be the league's number 1 pg within 2 years anyway.

To be fair, Paul has played in at least 78 games for three of his five seasons. He played in 64 games in 2006-2007, and 45 games this year.

He has averaged 69 games a year over his five year career.

Vinny642
06-13-2010, 05:06 PM
Curry's numbers will look something like

22 ppg, 6 rbs, 8 ast, by next year. What's so ignorant about that. Paul can't stay healthy. I'm not even a Warriors fan. Unless Wall ends up being light out, Curry will be unstoppable sooner than later. The best 3 point shot since Reggie Miller.

Why cant CP stay healthy? Explain that to me, he only had two seasons where he missed significant time, and the two seasons are a couple years apart and are unrelated,

trade108
06-13-2010, 05:07 PM
All you have to do is look at the Finals and how "Smart Teams" play the Celtics. Celts Offense runs through 3 people at various times. DO you see how NO ONE plays Rondo on on D. Making it that much harder for the Big 3 to score. Doc was telling him "YOU HAVE TO SHOOT" Rondo knows hes not a good shooter. He cant even hit mid range jump shots and your saying hes made for this offense?His passing is better but he over dribbles A LOT. im not saying Rondo isnt good just saying hes not as good as some may think he is. He cant hit a mid range jump shot....he cant shoot the 3 or stretch the defense...... he shoots worse then Ben Wallace and Shaq combined at the line(and thats horrible for a "elite" point guard)....and over dribbles.... What he does do well is run an offense i can give you that and plays solid D. SO what about him makes him great?

Chris Paul or Williams on the Celts offensively would take this team to a different level. Both can run a team and actually be more of a leader....both can score at a high level and you can actually run your offense through them(meaning u can sit the big 3 and have no scoring droughts). Both are great passers and Both can play D so i dont see how anyone can say "Nawwww they wouldnt do anything for the Celts" you really gotta be kidding me......

And STeph Curry like all players when they first come into the league need to be evaluated after 3 years. Hes still young and will be NICE but him running a vet team liek the Celts.... they wouldnt be in the FInals i know that much.

iggypop123
06-13-2010, 05:12 PM
72 wins, unstoppable on offense.

PraiseJesus
06-13-2010, 05:16 PM
Rondo is the perfect PG for the Celtics.

bosoxlover12
06-13-2010, 05:16 PM
To be fair, Paul has played in at least 78 games for three of his five seasons. He played in 64 games in 2006-2007, and 45 games this year.

He has averaged 69 games a year over his five year career.

in those Celtics v. Hornets games this past 2 years that Paul has played in, Rondo has had better stats than CP3. So clearly by that, Rondo>Paul.

and rondo is a good enough scorer, and an AMAZING defensive PG, so its about even draw there

Mc Lovin
06-13-2010, 05:17 PM
I say easily a 65+ win team. But I am curious, would they be better, worse, discuss....

You can't say that. Rondo, Paul, and Williams are three totally different PG's. They all do different things better than the other guy. The Celtics are a great defensive team and Rondo is better than both those guys on defense so I doubt the C's would be any better. What happens to the Celtics team defense if Chris Paul is is out there rather than Rondo? That would screw the Celtics up big time IMO.

Mc Lovin
06-13-2010, 05:27 PM
in those Celtics v. Hornets games this past 2 years that Paul has played in, Rondo has had better stats than CP3. So clearly by that, Rondo>Paul.

and rondo is a good enough scorer, and an AMAZING defensive PG, so its about even draw there

Yeah Rondo does eat Chris Paul up. The Celtics need a PG who is a great defender and who's quick enough to stay in front of other opposing PG's because the opposing PG gets into the lane and collapses Boston's defense is when the C's have major trouble. Rondo is a better defender than both those guys and he's a better rebounder and just as good at fight guys open. Those guys can both score better than Rondo but, look at how many things Rondo does better than them. I don't see any of those PG's making the C's any beeter

Vinny642
06-13-2010, 05:32 PM
in those Celtics v. Hornets games this past 2 years that Paul has played in, Rondo has had better stats than CP3. So clearly by that, Rondo>Paul.

and rondo is a good enough scorer, and an AMAZING defensive PG, so its about even draw there

This is the most ignorant thing I have seen on this thread, more ignorant than the other guys comment, do any of you know anything about basketball?

Bruno
06-13-2010, 05:33 PM
in those Celtics v. Hornets games this past 2 years that Paul has played in, Rondo has had better stats than CP3. So clearly by that, Rondo>Paul.

and rondo is a good enough scorer, and an AMAZING defensive PG, so its about even draw there

Not really, their most recent match up looked like this. Plus, judging who's better based on a handful (two a year) of head to head match ups during the regular season isn't the best way to look at who's better. Paul is a better scorer than Rondo, and that's why I think he could help their offense more when they get stagnant.

11/1/2009
Rondo- 6 points, 10 assists, 3 rebounds, 3 steals, 4 TO's.
Paul- 22 points, 8 assists, 3 rebounds, 2 steals, 2 TO's
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/boxscore;_ylt=Ap0T1AsCvVwhDRy2Y1TzIf1nPaB4?gid=200 9110102

Vinny642
06-13-2010, 05:35 PM
Not really, their most recent match up looked like this. Plus, judging who's better based on a handful (two a year) of head to head match ups during the regular season isn't the best way to look at who's better. Paul is a better scorer than Rondo, and that's why I think he could help their offense more when they get stagnant.

11/1/2009
Rondo- 6 points, 10 assists, 3 rebounds, 3 steals, 4 TO's.
Paul- 22 points, 8 assists, 3 rebounds, 2 steals, 2 TO's
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/boxscore;_ylt=Ap0T1AsCvVwhDRy2Y1TzIf1nPaB4?gid=200 9110102

LOL 6 points, omfg Rondo is a hall of famer now!!
Thank you for finding this I didnt want to look, this shut down any argument of who is better head to head.

vash9
06-13-2010, 05:39 PM
Well, teams would have to be more aware of a scoring PG. Rondo is a premiere PG, but he lacks a jumper that's why Kobe/Fisher don't need to guard him when he is pretty much at the 3Pt line making a play.

If that were CP3 or Deron, they'd spread the floor a bit more and even cause a threat by scoring themselves.

Better with either DWill or CP3. on the offensive end.

bosoxlover12
06-13-2010, 05:55 PM
Not really, their most recent match up looked like this. Plus, judging who's better based on a handful (two a year) of head to head match ups during the regular season isn't the best way to look at who's better. Paul is a better scorer than Rondo, and that's why I think he could help their offense more when they get stagnant.

11/1/2009
Rondo- 6 points, 10 assists, 3 rebounds, 3 steals, 4 TO's.
Paul- 22 points, 8 assists, 3 rebounds, 2 steals, 2 TO's
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/boxscore;_ylt=Ap0T1AsCvVwhDRy2Y1TzIf1nPaB4?gid=200 9110102

and who won that game? Umm... BOSTON. Plus, Pierce scored 27 that game, so Rondo didnt have as many opportunities. Plus Rondo had a 7 more net points than Paul.

Rondo is a winner. Paul cant win. nuff said

Sox Appeal
06-13-2010, 05:59 PM
and who won that game? Umm... BOSTON. Plus, Pierce scored 27 that game, so Rondo didnt have as many opportunities. Plus Rondo had a 7 more net points than Paul.

Rondo is a winner. Paul cant win. nuff said

If Chris Paul was playing with 3 guys that will end up in the basketball Hall of Fame, I'm sure he would be considered a winner. If Rondo was forced to play with some of the trash CP3 has had to work with, I'm not so sure we'd still be calling him a winner.

Chris Paul is a superstar, and one of the 6 or 7 best players in the league. Rondo isn't. Nuff said.

Vinny642
06-13-2010, 06:02 PM
If Chris Paul was playing with 3 guys that will end up in the basketball Hall of Fame, I'm sure he would be considered a winner. If Rondo was forced to play with some of the trash CP3 has had to work with, I'm not so sure we'd still be calling him a winner.

Chris Paul is a superstar, and one of the 6 or 7 best players in the league. Rondo isn't. Nuff said.

^^^
This guy is smart. 100% agreed

greg_ory_2005
06-13-2010, 06:04 PM
and who won that game? Umm... BOSTON. Plus, Pierce scored 27 that game, so Rondo didnt have as many opportunities. Plus Rondo had a 7 more net points than Paul.

Rondo is a winner. Paul cant win. nuff said

Wow...

JonnyBrav000
06-13-2010, 06:17 PM
Rondo is good for that team because he knows when he's needed to score. Deron Williams would be a better fit than CP3, though. CP3 defers to his teammates too much and this Celtics team simply wouldn't amount to what they have if they relied on the former Big Three to do all of their scoring.

CP3 scores over 20ppg, that doesn't any make sense, however he is pass first, but so is Rondo, difference is Paul can do more on the offensive end, and he is a better passer than both Rondo and Williams, Rondo is slightly better on defense than Paul, but he can hold his own and create a bunch of turnovers, plus he is a smarter player, takes better shots, turns the ball over less, shoots a high percentage, shoots better from the free throw line, plus he can also rebound (maybe not as good as rondo but good for a pg). As good as Rondo is CP3 would make Boston better and so would Williams, Rondo is close but still trailing those two as the best PG in basketball.

If Boston was offered CP3 or Williams straight up for Rondo, they would make that trade in a heart beat.

By the way, those people who say dumb things like Paul can't win are stupid, basketball is a team sport, Rondo won a championship but was not even the third best player on his team, right now he is the 2nd best player on his team, but Chris Paul has always been the best on his team, and has played with less talent around him, put Paul on a winning team and yes he will win... idiots

bosoxlover12
06-13-2010, 06:17 PM
^^^
This guy is smart. 100% agreed

wow tool.

Sox Appeal
06-13-2010, 06:20 PM
Well, teams would have to be more aware of a scoring PG. Rondo is a premiere PG, but he lacks a jumper that's why Kobe/Fisher don't need to guard him when he is pretty much at the 3Pt line making a play.

If that were CP3 or Deron, they'd spread the floor a bit more and even cause a threat by scoring themselves.

Better with either DWill or CP3. on the offensive end.

The difference between CP3 and Rondo on defense, is minuscule. People are starting to get carried away by how good of a defender Rondo is. Yes, he's good, but it's not like he's the second coming of Gary Payton.

The difference between CP3 and Rondo offensively, is really mind-blowing. Paul is far and away the best offensive PG in the league. When healthy, he can do everything you want a PG to do. He can attack, dish, score inside and outside, and he's also a knock-down shooter from the line.

Rondos inability to develop a consistent jumper, AND his inability to become even an average FT shooter, really holds the Celtics offense back. In the final minutes of games, Rondo really begins to tighten up. He stops attacking like he does in the early part of games, because he's such a poor shooter from the line, he doesn't want to get fouled, and do to his lack of an outside shot, he never shoots the ball from outside of 10 feet.

Sox Appeal
06-13-2010, 06:20 PM
CP3 scores over 20ppg, that doesn't any make sense, however he is pass first, but so is Rondo, difference is Paul can do more on the offensive end, and he is a better passer than both Rondo and Williams, Rondo is slightly better on defense than Paul, but he can hold his own and create a bunch of turnovers, plus he is a smarter player, takes better shots, shoots a high percentage, shoots better from the free throw line, plus he can also rebound (maybe not as good as rondo but good for a pg). As good as Rondo is CP3 would make Boston better and so would Williams, Rondo is close but still trailing those two as the best PG in basketball.

If Boston was offered cp3 or Williams straight up for Rondo, they would make that trade in a heart beat.

Excellent post. Agreed 100%.

Bruno
06-13-2010, 06:21 PM
and who won that game? Umm... BOSTON. Plus, Pierce scored 27 that game, so Rondo didnt have as many opportunities. Plus Rondo had a 7 more net points than Paul.

Rondo is a winner. Paul cant win. nuff said

You have to be a youngin'.

Vinny642
06-13-2010, 06:26 PM
wow tool.

How is that being a "tool" if someone is correct I will point it out. Your ignorant... so I can't compliment your ignorant comments

bosoxlover12
06-13-2010, 06:28 PM
versus the top 4 teams in the NBA(LA, Orlando, Dallas, and Cleveland)

Paul: 14.43 ppg, 8.7 apg, 1.27apg, 2.5 rpg
Rondo: 14.65ppg, 9.53 apg, 1.88spg, 5.58 rpg

bosoxlover12
06-13-2010, 06:33 PM
and 'helping' ur cause

"Are all yall kiddin me Chris Paul is wayyy better the Rondo, Rondo is Celetics ***** , Did Rajon Rondo ever Play for USA, Does Rondo have any rings????? I think only 1 but i know CP3 got 2 so SMD"

1. Rondo made it in '08, chose not to play, will play the next one
2. Paul has 0 rings!!!
3. Celetics? really?

your own help just hurts you in the end

Vinny642
06-13-2010, 06:41 PM
versus the top 4 teams in the NBA(LA, Orlando, Dallas, and Cleveland)

Paul: 14.43 ppg, 8.7 apg, 1.27apg, 2.5 rpg
Rondo: 14.65ppg, 9.53 apg, 1.88spg, 5.58 rpg

Is that for this season?

Vinny642
06-13-2010, 06:44 PM
and 'helping' ur cause

"Are all yall kiddin me Chris Paul is wayyy better the Rondo, Rondo is Celetics ***** , Did Rajon Rondo ever Play for USA, Does Rondo have any rings????? I think only 1 but i know CP3 got 2 so SMD"

1. Rondo made it in '08, chose not to play, will play the next one
2. Paul has 0 rings!!!
3. Celetics? really?

your own help just hurts you in the end

IN bold- Dude, seriously you are as ignorant as hell, can you read?? Im just asking because several people already explained that if Paul was on the Celtics and Rondo was a Hornet, Rondo would be ring-less and CP would have 2 by now.

Squad13
06-13-2010, 06:52 PM
Worse IMO, and I LOVE CP3. I would trade for him anyday of the week for any of the Lakers besides Kobe.

But Rondo is exactly what the C's need. A physically tough minded point guard who is a energy bug and can body up against others. Paul is not really that physical from what I see, I can be wrong though.

To say the C's wouldn't be better with D-Will at the point is laughable, he does virtually everything better than Rondo.

magichatnumber9
06-13-2010, 07:07 PM
Vin if it makes you feel better yes Chris Paul would win a ring every year with the big 3. I mean that's what you want to hear right?

Hawkeye15
06-13-2010, 07:09 PM
and who won that game? Umm... BOSTON. Plus, Pierce scored 27 that game, so Rondo didnt have as many opportunities. Plus Rondo had a 7 more net points than Paul.

Rondo is a winner. Paul cant win. nuff said

you cant bring in roster help when comparing players. Rondo is not in Paul's league. When Allen and Pierce are freezing cold, the Celtics are usually in big trouble. A player like Paul can take over in those situations. On top of that, he is the best in the NBA at getting his teammates easy looks in the halfcourt. Paul's defense is barely behind Rondo's, which is Rajon's strongest point.
Facts are facts, and that is Rondo is nowhere near Chris Paul, and will never be.

Vinny642
06-13-2010, 07:09 PM
Vin if it makes you feel better yes Chris Paul would win a ring every year with the big 3. I mean that's what you want to hear right?

Chris Paul and Deron Williams.... basically my point is people have to hop off of Rondo because he really isn't close to the best.

I find it funny, that I easily out argued these people even without stats.

Hawkeye15
06-13-2010, 07:11 PM
The difference between CP3 and Rondo on defense, is minuscule. People are starting to get carried away by how good of a defender Rondo is. Yes, he's good, but it's not like he's the second coming of Gary Payton.

The difference between CP3 and Rondo offensively, is really mind-blowing. Paul is far and away the best offensive PG in the league. When healthy, he can do everything you want a PG to do. He can attack, dish, score inside and outside, and he's also a knock-down shooter from the line.

Rondos inability to develop a consistent jumper, AND his inability to become even an average FT shooter, really holds the Celtics offense back. In the final minutes of games, Rondo really begins to tighten up. He stops attacking like he does in the early part of games, because he's such a poor shooter from the line, he doesn't want to get fouled, and do to his lack of an outside shot, he never shoots the ball from outside of 10 feet.


I feel like I am reading a summarization of my posts over the last 10 pages. Its ridiculous that this comparison is even brought up. Its sad how many short term memories there are on PSD

Hawkeye15
06-13-2010, 07:13 PM
Vin if it makes you feel better yes Chris Paul would win a ring every year with the big 3. I mean that's what you want to hear right?

do you honestly think he wouldn't???