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View Full Version : Phil Jackson: "Kevin McHale gave the Celtics Garnett"



tdunk21
06-07-2010, 11:44 PM
"Kevin McHale gave them Kevin Garnett," cracked Jackson, speaking of McHale when he was VP of basketball operations in Minnesota. "I mean, why not? Geez. That's somebody calling the kettle black."

http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-simers-20100604,0,2697091.column?page=2

still1ballin
06-07-2010, 11:46 PM
Jerry West gave Gasol to the Lakers



But I am glad he did, because if it didn't go through, then the trade would of been Garnett to Lakers for Bynum and Odom.

ToldYa
06-07-2010, 11:50 PM
Jerry West gave Gasol to the Lakers



But I am glad he did, because if it didn't go through, then the trade would of been Garnett to Lakers for Bynum and Odom.

yea cause if that trade happened celtics wouldnt have beat the crap out of the lakers in 2008

AI4MVP
06-07-2010, 11:51 PM
god damn phil jackson. always talkin ****. just keep your mouth shut and coach

bigsams50
06-07-2010, 11:51 PM
Jerry West gave Gasol to the Lakers



But I am glad he did, because if it didn't go through, then the trade would of been Garnett to Lakers for Bynum and Odom.

Garnett was traded WAY before Gasol was

Draco
06-07-2010, 11:52 PM
Jerry West gave Gasol to the Lakers



But I am glad he did, because if it didn't go through, then the trade would of been Garnett to Lakers for Bynum and Odom.

Chris Wallace, not West.

still1ballin
06-07-2010, 11:54 PM
Garnett was traded WAY before Gasol was

I know that.

What I am saying Lakers and the Wolves were close in completing the deal Garnett for Bynum/Odom, but it didn't go through.

Lakers are now better off not making that trade.

still1ballin
06-07-2010, 11:54 PM
Chris Wallace, not West.

Jerry West was still with the team. I am sure he has something to do with it;)

td0tsfinest
06-07-2010, 11:55 PM
lol. Doesn't Phil know about the Gasol trade?

bigsams50
06-07-2010, 11:56 PM
I know that.

What I am saying Lakers and the Wolves were close in completing the deal Garnett for Bynum/Odom, but it didn't go through.

Lakers are now better off not making that trade.

OH, ok i see it now lol I read it wrong

Vinny642
06-07-2010, 11:56 PM
Phil Jackson should just STFU already, his whining is getting OLD!

_KB24_
06-08-2010, 12:03 AM
:)

We got Gasol, we're not complaining.

AI4MVP
06-08-2010, 12:04 AM
its just getting old. all he does is ***** and moan about other teams and complain about everything. STFU PHIL

hoopitup
06-08-2010, 12:05 AM
it seems like the Gasol trade help the Grizzlies more then the Garnett trade helped the t-wolves.. Phil is right on this one..

ntat
06-08-2010, 12:13 AM
it seems like the Gasol trade help the Grizzlies more then the Garnett trade helped the t-wolves.. Phil is right on this one..
ya by pure luck. None of the return players were worth a **** in anyones mind. Plus it could have been zack randolph that helped them, along with gay and mayo growing another year.

asandhu23
06-08-2010, 12:15 AM
Lol. I said exactly what people are saying right now over a year ago. NBA IS RIGGED and Gasol trade and Garnett trade to bring back NBA's greatest rivalry during the early stages of this mini depression we are in was to sustain NBA during that turmoil. In fact, I believe Ray Allen was brought to Celtics because he was stuck on a crappy Sonics team and they were off to what people thought at time: irrelevancy for a looooong time

Avenged
06-08-2010, 12:16 AM
Phil should really be quiet already. There's no reason to say something like this at this point especially knowing Gasol was given to him as well.

joe j.09
06-08-2010, 12:19 AM
its just getting old. All he does is ***** and moan about other teams and complain about everything. Stfu phil

this.

Dol-Fan
06-08-2010, 12:19 AM
I thought Minnesota got pretty good value for Garnett :confused:

stawka
06-08-2010, 12:24 AM
The Wolves got Al-Jefferson and fillers... Not a bad damn trade, not nearly as bad as Phil makes it out to be. Gasol for a used tampon was a lot worse. I'm getting sick of Phil's ******** more than I am with Shaq's constant yapping. Just STFU and do ur job

JordansBulls
06-08-2010, 12:27 AM
The Twolves still got them a 20 and 10 player.

IrespectNumber3
06-08-2010, 12:28 AM
Phil Jackson is one of the most bitter NBA championship coaches ever...Bill Bellicek is a close second

hugepatsfan
06-08-2010, 12:28 AM
For KG the Wolves got:

1.) Al Jefferson - A guy that averaged 20 and 10 for 2 years before a change in offensive philosphy
2.) Ryan Gomes - A starter for them, but a better option as a 7th man on a good team
3.) Theo Ratliff - An expiring they could have used for a guy like Gasol if they wanted
4.) Sebastian Telfair/Gerald Green - both sucked, but they were considered talented guys at the time

I actually think MIN robbed BOS in the long term (thought it was worth it because we needed KG to win a title). I'm not sure I wouldn't undo this trade from a Celtics perspective (especially seeing as how KG was only to give them one good year).

valade16
06-08-2010, 12:31 AM
Well which trade is worse really comes down to which player you'd rather have, Marc Gasol (the main piece in the Gasol trade) or Al Jefferson (the main piece in the Garnett trade).

Marc Gasol: 14.6 ppg, 9.3 rpg, 58% FG
Al Jefferson: 17.1 ppg, 9.3 rpg, 49.8% FG

Not all that different, I think both trades were equally as good for their franchises, so Jackson should stop b***ing.

Besides, this is the coach that literally coached Chicago AFTER they had Jordan and Pippen and LA AFTER they already had Kobe and Shaq.

So he can quit acting like it's unfair to ANYBODY else in the league...

Mc Lovin
06-08-2010, 12:32 AM
Yeah but Jerry West gave the Lakers Pau Gasol when he was the Grizzlies GM. The Lakers got Gasol for less than got Garnett for. The Celtics gave up Al Jefferson who IMO is better than Marc Gasol.

Bruno
06-08-2010, 12:32 AM
ya by pure luck. None of the return players were worth a **** in anyones mind. Plus it could have been zack randolph that helped them, along with gay and mayo growing another year.

Marc Gasol had a higher PER in 2009-2010 than Al Jefferson.

*Silver&Black*
06-08-2010, 12:35 AM
Lol. I said exactly what people are saying right now over a year ago. NBA IS RIGGED and Gasol trade and Garnett trade to bring back NBA's greatest rivalry during the early stages of this mini depression we are in was to sustain NBA during that turmoil. In fact, I believe Ray Allen was brought to Celtics because he was stuck on a crappy Sonics team and they were off to what people thought at time: irrelevancy for a looooong time

+1

Smart guy you are. I'm glad other people see this. Something needs to be done about the NBA.

Bruno
06-08-2010, 12:36 AM
This has nothing to do with Jackson being bitter about the trade. He's just slighting McHales opinion by calling him a bad GM. Probably unnecessary, but not surprising in any way. You guys act as if Jackson hasn't been saying this kind of stuff for 20 years, as if its something new.

Mc Lovin
06-08-2010, 12:38 AM
Marc Gasol had a higher PER in 2009-2010 than Al Jefferson.

So what. The older Phil Jackson gets the more and more he really starts to resemble Colonel Sanders. You would think he would change the way he dresses or something because he looks exactly like Colonel Sanders. It's quite sad.

hugepatsfan
06-08-2010, 12:39 AM
Marc Gasol had a higher PER in 2009-2010 than Al Jefferson.

Al was playing in a new offense this year. He was a monster the past few years. People point to his FG %, but he had offensive crap around him.

asandhu23
06-08-2010, 12:40 AM
Phil Jackson is one of the most bitter NBA championship coaches ever...Bill Bellicek is a close second

Bill Belicheck coaches an NBA TEAM? :speechless::speechless::speechless::speechless:

SugeKnight
06-08-2010, 12:43 AM
Jerry West gave Gasol to the Lakers.

That was more of a rape than the Celtics trade

Bruno
06-08-2010, 12:45 AM
Yeah but Jerry West gave the Lakers Pau Gasol when he was the Grizzlies GM. The Lakers got Gasol for less than got Garnett for. The Celtics gave up Al Jefferson who IMO is better than Marc Gasol.


So what. The older Phil Jackson gets the more and more he really starts to resemble Colonel Sanders. You would think he would change the way he dresses or something because he looks exactly like Colonel Sanders. It's quite sad.

...So, he was the more the effective/better player for the season, and to say one was trade was more lopsided than the other is the wrong assessment, considering the way each player played in 2009-2010. It's fine if your opinion sways towards Jefferson being better, but Marc put up the better year statistically. Neither trade was more lopsided than the other.

IrespectNumber3
06-08-2010, 12:47 AM
Bill Belicheck coaches an NBA TEAM? :speechless::speechless::speechless::speechless:

lol you caught the error i meant championship coaches...

Bruno
06-08-2010, 12:50 AM
Al was playing in a new offense this year. He was a monster the past few years. People point to his FG %, but he had offensive crap around him.

Marc Gasol is a 2nd year player. He was also playing in a new system by default.

Kakaroach
06-08-2010, 12:56 AM
C'mon guys don't turn this into a Gasol-Garnett trade thread again.

Anyway, Al Jefferson is still a very good big man and they got some picks out of it too. Of course it was an unfair trade but not the ridiculous trade everyone thinks it is.

td0tsfinest
06-08-2010, 12:56 AM
People need to realize Jerry West resigned from the Grizzlies GM post in 2006.

Chris Wallace is the man you blame for the Gasol to LA.

PrettyBoyJ
06-08-2010, 12:56 AM
god damn phil jackson. always talkin ****. just keep your mouth shut and coach

He is.. But he like to get in ppl heads.. and he kinda always does

ntat
06-08-2010, 01:00 AM
Marc Gasol had a higher PER in 2009-2010 than Al Jefferson.

ya like i said, no one expected **** out of gasol jr. what was his PER the year before when he was a fat body?

Bruno
06-08-2010, 01:01 AM
ya like i said, no one expected **** out of gasol jr. what was his PER the year before when he was a fat body?

You mean his rookie season? I'm not sure, it shouldn't be too hard to look up.

Bruno
06-08-2010, 01:04 AM
C'mon guys don't turn this into a Gasol-Garnett trade thread again.

Anyway, Al Jefferson is still a very good big man and they got some picks out of it too. Of course it was an unfair trade but not the ridiculous trade everyone thinks it is.

Agreed, whenever a big name player gets moved the team giving up that superstar almost never gets "equal value" in return. Its almost always a young player with potential, cap space, picks, and fillers.

hugepatsfan
06-08-2010, 01:04 AM
I don't know how people can say BOS robbed MIN when AL>KG (and has been for 2/3 years since the trade).

yanks 4lif3
06-08-2010, 01:24 AM
I don't know how people can say BOS robbed MIN when AL>KG (and has been for 2/3 years since the trade).

Because MIN has been at the bottom of the barrel and BOS has been back to the Finals two out of the last three years...plus its not as if you hear about Al Jefferson highlights on SportsCenter or other networks

Bruno
06-08-2010, 01:26 AM
I don't know how people can say BOS robbed MIN when AL>KG (and has been for 2/3 years since the trade).

I'm in the minority on this one but neither trade was that outlandish when compared to similar past trades where superstars were dealt for "nothing". This is how it has always worked in the NBA.

2004: Vince Carter to New Jersey for Alonzo Mourning (34), Eric Williams, Aaron Williams, two future first round draft picks. Toronto didn't recieve an all-star for their superstar.

2006: A.I. and Ivan McFarlin to Denver for Andre Miller (had a PER that was lower than what Al Jefferson and Marc Gasol had in 2010), Joe Smith, two 2007 first round picks. Phili didn't get an all-star for their superstar.

2004: Shaq to Miami for Lamar Odom, Caron Butler, Brian Grant and a future first round draft pick. This is another trade that looks less lopsided as the years have gone on. LA didn't get an all-star for their superstar. To this day Lamar has never been an all-star. Caron Butler averaged 11 points per game while in Miami and didn't become a star until he went to the Wizards.

1965: San Francisco Warriors trade Wilt Chamberlain to Philadelphia 76ers for Paul Neumann, Connie Dierking, and Lee Shaffer.

1968: Philadelphia 76ers trade Wilt Chamberlain to L.A. Lakers for Darrall Imhoff, Jerry Chambers, and Archie Clark.

1975: Milwaukee Bucks trade Kareem Abdul-Jabbar and Walt Wesley to L.A. Lakers for Elmore Smith, Junior Bridgeman, Brian Winters, and Dave Meyers.

1980: Golden State Warriors trade Robert Parish and No. 3 pick (Kevin McHale) to Boston Celtics for Nos. 1 and 13 picks (Joe Barry Carroll and Rickey Brown).

1982: Houston Rockets trade Moses Malone to Philadelphia 76ers for Caldwell Jones and a 1983 first-round draft choice.

1970: Cincinnati Royals trade Oscar Robertson to Milwaukee Bucks for Flynn Robinson and Charlie Paulk.

1992: Philadelphia 76ers trade Charles Barkley to Phoenix Suns for Jeff Hornacek, Tim Perry, and Andrew Lang.

1983: Phoenix Suns trade Dennis Johnson to Boston Celtics for Rick Robey.

1995: Portland Trail Blazers trade Clyde Drexler and Tracy Murray to Houston Rockets for Otis Thorpe

2004: Atlanta Hawks trade Rasheed Wallace to Detroit Pistons as part of a three-team deal that also sends Chucky Atkins and Lindsey Hunter to Boston Celtics, Mike James to Pistons, and Bobby Sura, Chris Mills, and Zeljco Rebraca to Hawks.

1991: Golden State Warriors trade Mitch Richmond and Lee Jepsen to Sacramento Kings for Billy Owens.

hugepatsfan
06-08-2010, 01:29 AM
Because MIN has been at the bottom of the barrel and BOS has been back to the Finals two out of the last three years...plus its not as if you hear about Al Jefferson highlights on SportsCenter or other networks

KG was the difference in 08. But if the Celts traded Garnett for Al right now, they would be a better team. Obviously Al still has some developing to do, but he is only 25(ish). The Celts would still have been a title contender TALENT-WISE in 08 w/out the KG deal (although KG's defensive intensity and how he passed it on is what won them a title - Al couldn't do that).

jackdawson
06-08-2010, 01:30 AM
PJ is a jerk. A lucky coach for life. I gurantee he would never take the challange of coaching a team that doesn't have one of the best players surrounded with multiple all stars.

LAcowBOMBER
06-08-2010, 01:33 AM
I ALSO asked, "Are you as appalled as I am reading the L.A. Times that Kevin McHale actually gives the edge in coaching to Doc Rivers in this series?

"Kevin McHale gave them Kevin Garnett," cracked Jackson, speaking of McHale when he was VP of basketball operations in Minnesota. "I mean, why not? Geez. That's somebody calling the kettle black."

Context people

He wasn't complaining, more insulting McHale and I don't think maliciously

hugepatsfan
06-08-2010, 01:35 AM
PJ is a jerk. A lucky coach for life. I gurantee he would never take the challange of coaching a team that doesn't have one of the best player surrounded with multiple all stars.

:facepalm:

Mplsman
06-08-2010, 01:36 AM
I feel like this is already obvious. McHale hand delivered KG on a silver platter.

Bruno
06-08-2010, 01:37 AM
PJ is a jerk. A lucky coach for life. I gurantee he would never take the challange of coaching a team that doesn't have one of the best player surrounded with multiple all stars.

When he came back to the Lakers in 2006 Kobe wasn't surrounded with multiple all-stars.

Kobe was joined by:

Lamar Odom, who now comes off the bench, who's never been an all-star.
Smush Paker, who can no longer make an NBA team, who hasn't been in the NBA since 2007-2008 season.
Luke Walton, who averaged less than 10 mpg this season.
Brian Cook, who averaged 2.9 mpg this season for Houston.
Kwame Brown, who averaged 13.8 mpg this season.

hugepatsfan
06-08-2010, 01:38 AM
I feel like this is already obvious. McHale hand delivered KG on a silver platter.

If I was the Boston GM I would cancel the trade if I could.

Bruno
06-08-2010, 01:39 AM
If I was the Boston GM I would cancel the trade if I could.

And lose your 2008 ring?

hugepatsfan
06-08-2010, 01:41 AM
And lose your 2008 ring?

When you put it like that... no. lol That's what makes a GM's job so hard. How about BOS just gets to borrow KG for 08 and then gets AL back for the future. :D

Bruno
06-08-2010, 01:46 AM
When you put it like that... no. lol That's what makes a GM's job so hard. How about BOS just gets to borrow KG for 08 and then gets AL back for the future. :D

Very true. I mean, if you had Al-Jeff now instead of KG maybe you get the title in 2009 when KG was injured, or this year, and still have a post anchor for the future. You never know how this stuff will turn out. That's why I'm sayin everyone needs to give the KG/Pau trades a few more years to pan out, so you can see the real effects of the trades in hindsight. Not just dismiss them as a conspiracy, even if it's a possibility.

hugepatsfan
06-08-2010, 01:47 AM
Very true. I mean, if you had Al-Jeff now instead of KG maybe you get the title in 2009 when KG was injured, or this year, and still have a post anchor for the future. You never know how this stuff will turn out. That's why I'm sayin everyone needs to give the KG/Pau trades a few more years to pan out, so you can see the real effects of the trades in hindsight. Not just dismiss them as a conspiracy, even if it's a possibility.

If they kep Al and gave him the same deal MIN did, they would be in position to let Pierce expire next year (after letting Ray go this year) and use their cap space to sign... Melo!!! Rondo, Melo, Al, and Perk as a core for the future - very enticing.

IndiansFan337
06-08-2010, 01:49 AM
Jerry West gave Gasol to the Lakers



But I am glad he did, because if it didn't go through, then the trade would of been Garnett to Lakers for Bynum and Odom.

Actually, Chris Wallace is carrying the guilty from that trade.

robdizzle3
06-08-2010, 01:51 AM
The Wolves got Al-Jefferson and fillers... Not a bad damn trade, not nearly as bad as Phil makes it out to be. Gasol for a used tampon was a lot worse. I'm getting sick of Phil's ******** more than I am with Shaq's constant yapping. Just STFU and do ur job

Just imagine if the Lakers didnt have to give the Marc Gasol. OUCH!!!!, but they did get a really good player in him though.

Bruno
06-08-2010, 01:53 AM
If they kep Al and gave him the same deal MIN did, they would be in position to let Pierce expire next year (after letting Ray go this year) and use their cap space to sign... Melo!!! Rondo, Melo, Al, and Perk as a core for the future - very enticing.

Damn, but if Melo did go to Boston it'd be dismissed as some kind of conspiracy, right?

People are talkin' a lot about LA/Boston conspiracies with how tight the first two games have been reefed. I'm not saying corruption in the NBA isn't a possibility; the economic crisis says big financial institutions like Frannie and Freddie were corrupt, so why not the NBA?- when big dollars are at stake anything can happen.

...But if the NBA really was corrupt, don't you think they would have guaranteed Boston landing Tim Duncan in the '98 lottery when you guys had the best chance to land the first pick? That would have been the most corrupt, risk free way to usher in the post-jordan era. :D

blams
06-08-2010, 01:59 AM
lol. Doesn't Phil know about the Gasol trade?

Comparing GASOL to GARNETT?

:laugh:


:facepalm:

dodie53
06-08-2010, 02:12 AM
cuban gave nash to the suns

ko8e24
06-08-2010, 02:14 AM
The difference b/w Gasol and Garnett trades.....

a lot of teams were out to acquiring KG cuz he was still the guy and one of the top 5 forwards in the game. Pau, after breaking his foot in the 2006 worlds, was in oblivion since then and nobody was even mentioning his name. NO OTHER TEAM was looking to acquire Pau, but in KG's situation, there were 3-4 teams like LA, Boston, PHX etc.

What makes the whole KG trade so "planned" was that KG first goes out to say that the Boston fans are racist and in general, don't like watching the black guy play basketball in the city of Boston. He was closer to be traded to PHX for Amare or to LA for Bynum + Odom, but then Jeff Green's draft rights were traded to the Sonics for Ray Allen, and former Celtic Kevin McHale worked his Magic to send KG to Boston. KG to Boston and all those rumors and behind the scenes planning was going on for the good amount of the end of the 2006-2007 season (when both Minny and Boston did not make the '07 playoffs) and a good portion of the 2007 Summer.


The Gasol trade was done unexpectedly, and no one saw that coming. Two weeks before the trade deadline, it was Chris Wallace's opportunity to shed some salary for an expiring contract. The trade deadline would have been his last opportunity to make any financial fixings before the summertime, when the payroll renews.

robdizzle3
06-08-2010, 02:14 AM
Comparing GASOL to GARNETT?

:laugh:


:facepalm:

I really dont get what you're trying to do here. He's saying the Gasol deal was also a steal like the Garnett trade. He wasnt comparing the two players, so you can remove the hand from the face.

s2kobe
06-08-2010, 02:38 AM
one word - Gasol

TheWatcher34
06-08-2010, 03:48 AM
Phil Jackson was given Jordan, O'Neal, Bryant. Phil Jackson was given 10 rings. Phil Jackson was given credit for ****. Phil Jackson gets outcoached.....regularly. He is one of the most overrated coaches in history.

robdizzle3
06-08-2010, 03:54 AM
I understand that Phil has coached some of the best, but every coach has very good players on his team to win a championship, not just Phil. Without Phil and his triangle offense, would Jordan or Shaq and Kobe have won all those titles? Im not saying they wouldnt have won any, but I dont think as many.

Derick713
06-08-2010, 03:59 AM
The Celtics didn't steal Garnett like the Lakers stole Gasol. The Lakers got to keep their entire core in the Gasol trade. The Grizzlies should've asked for Lamar Odom at the very least. The Grizzlies helped a Western Conference team on top of it all.

The Pau Gasol trade did help the Grizzlies attain the assets that landed them OJ Mayo, Marc Gasol, and Darrell Arthur. The Gasol trade looks bad because the Lakers have made the Finals ever year since they acquired Pau. The Grizzlies at the very least should've insisted on Lamar Odom's expiring contract instead of Kwame Brown's.

jackdawson
06-08-2010, 04:20 AM
When he came back to the Lakers in 2006 Kobe wasn't surrounded with multiple all-stars.

Kobe was joined by:

Lamar Odom, who now comes off the bench, who's never been an all-star.
Smush Paker, who can no longer make an NBA team, who hasn't been in the NBA since 2007-2008 season.
Luke Walton, who averaged less than 10 mpg this season.
Brian Cook, who averaged 2.9 mpg this season for Houston.
Kwame Brown, who averaged 13.8 mpg this season.

A 27/28 year old Kobe bryant was in his prime and was the best player on the planet at that time. How long a franchise like lakers could stay out of contention? He was not that stupid not to understand that. Plus, Jeanie Buss was one of the biggest reasons he came back if you didn't know. He coached two best teams of two decades with best players in the league. Three of top ten players of all time.

Bruno
06-08-2010, 04:34 AM
A 27/28 year old Kobe bryant was in his prime and was the best player on the planet at that time. How long a franchise like lakers could stay out of contention? He was not that stupid not to understand that. Plus, Jeanie Buss was one of the biggest reasons he came back if you didn't know. He coached two best teams of two decades with best players in the league. Three of top ten players of all time.

Yeah I agree. I disagreed with the idea that he always coached the best player in the league at that that best player was also surrounded by an all-star cast. True most of the case, but not 100% of the time.

bostncelts34
06-08-2010, 07:02 AM
so when pierce talks **** he get the third degree? But Jackson...not even a PLAYER constantly runs his mouth, 90% of the lakers fans love it.

bostncelts34
06-08-2010, 07:05 AM
Also, Celtics traded their WHOLE team for KG, an emerging star in Jefferson, loads of potential in Gerald Green, serviceable player in Ryan Gomes, Sebastian Telfair. Lakers got Gasol for what....Marc Gasol and Kwame Brown? lol Oh..and crittenton.

magichatnumber9
06-08-2010, 07:14 AM
Point 1.Garnett was going to the Lakers until the Celtics traded for Ray Allen.Point 2. Phil Jackson should wear a band around his wrist that says "What would Doc say" and all that sewage that spews from his ugly *** mug should be vented to jerry's daughter. I love how she takes out her daddy issues. funny girl

magichatnumber9
06-08-2010, 07:17 AM
Yeah I agree. I disagreed with the idea that he always coached the best player in the league at that that best player was also surrounded by an all-star cast. True most of the case, but not 100% of the time.
Oh yeah he took a Jordan less team to the playoffs. That cemented his legacy as the greatest coach ever. Yeah makes me ****ing laugh when I read it too.

bsamet
06-08-2010, 07:34 AM
How about Lakers trade Phil to the Bobcats or any one of Larry Brown's teams and see if he could do anything like Brown did. I am so tired of this greatest coach talk, try getting your team in the playoffs with Stephen Jackson and Gerald Wallace, or better yet make one of these rediculous trades and trade Pau Gasol and Bryant for Kwame Brown, Mark Gasol, and a medley of scrubs. LA fans, I get it, he's been your coach for all the years Kobe won his titles, but that's just it, Kobe won your titles with Shaq and Pau and Lamar Odom, etc. Please end this bogus Phil is the greatest coach crap. By the way I am not a Bobcats fan either.

mikehunturtz
06-08-2010, 07:52 AM
Jerry West gave Gasol to the Lakers



But I am glad he did, because if it didn't go through, then the trade would of been Garnett to Lakers for Bynum and Odom.

didn't jackson get jordan & co. as well as kobe &co? jeez jackson, shut up already.

Corey
06-08-2010, 08:00 AM
This is sort of a shot at Al Jefferson too.

Sucks, because he's probably top 5 offensive big men in the league when he's healthy. His post moves are amazing.

MK-E-MK
06-08-2010, 09:29 AM
Phil Jackson is a wanker!

Agar81
06-08-2010, 09:44 AM
PJ is a jerk. A lucky coach for life. I gurantee he would never take the challange of coaching a team that doesn't have one of the best players surrounded with multiple all stars.

:clap:

RipVW
06-08-2010, 09:48 AM
Phil is smart. This talk of Gasol obviously bothers him and he understands its better to play offense than defense. He knows its better to set the tone. He does the same thing with officiating.

awmathewsjr
06-08-2010, 10:07 AM
Jerry West was still with the team. I am sure he has something to do with it;)

Im sorry buddy but you couldn't be more wrong. Jerry West was gone before Shaq so its no way he could've been around for that trade:facepalm:

JasonJohnHorn
06-08-2010, 10:15 AM
Phil Jackson has the highest winning percentage, the most rings, and he still complains about things not being fair. And as we have all pointed out: Memphis gave LA Gasol, and got a lot less at the time than the T-Wolves got. The T-Wolves may not be high on Jefferson now, but he was a 20/10 player when they picked him up with some other players to go along with him, which was a lot more than Kwambe Brown and a second round pick (though that second round pick did turn out to be Marc Gasol who is playing great).

Phil... seriously... you are the one coach who has the least to whine about. All-stars sign t your teams for the MLE and vet min, and you get to work with more talent than anybody. More rings,, higher winning percentage.

PLEASE STOP WHINNING!!!!! You are making me lose respect.

JasonJohnHorn
06-08-2010, 10:17 AM
Im sorry buddy but you couldn't be more wrong. Jerry West was gone before Shaq so its no way he could've been around for that trade:facepalm:

West was gone from the Lakers before Shaq left, but he WENT to Memphis after. Though he retired in 2007, which I think was before the Pao trade, though I could be wrong about that. Not sure exaclty.

Da Knicks
06-08-2010, 10:30 AM
The lakers also forced the trade in 96 kobe from charlotte for vlade divac, gasol for garbage, shaq to leave orlando for nothing. Phil to join them, artest to sign when he could of made more money on a contract but who knows how much he got under the table the same with odom.

Celtics and Lakers both the nbas favorite teams

Lo Porto
06-08-2010, 10:30 AM
This is typical Lakers. Phil Jackson whines about the Garnett deal when he was given Gasol for salary relief and late first rounders. It's as big a joke as Laker fans complaining about the refs in Game 2. Sure Garnett might have touched that ball last, but the Lakers had shot 39 FT's to the Celtics 13 at that point in the game.

Leave it to Laker fans to find something to whine about when life is already great for them by Jerry West and the NBA.

Hawkeye15
06-08-2010, 10:34 AM
does Phil ever shut up? haha
The Wolves got 6 players back, one of which is a 20/10 player essentially (18/9 last year coming off injury, will be back to 20/10), and multiple assets

leconjames
06-08-2010, 10:44 AM
This is nothing new. everyone here in minnesota knows this is true. just mchale helping his good old green out. jefferson is a black hole and is garbage.

Raidaz4Life
06-08-2010, 10:48 AM
ya by pure luck. None of the return players were worth a **** in anyones mind. Plus it could have been zack randolph that helped them, along with gay and mayo growing another year.

One thing people fail to get is that Kwame's expiring allowed them to get Randolph.



But honestly get tired of hearing about both of these trades, they were not steals. Both teams ended up getting what they wanted in the deals hence the reason they went through.

tdunk21
06-08-2010, 10:49 AM
This is nothing new. everyone here in minnesota knows this is true. just mchale helping his good old green out. jefferson is a black hole and is garbage.

u r saying a 20/10 player is garbage...what would u call a FO drafting 2 PG's with the 5th and 6th overall picks and 1 PG is playing elsewhere and who knows when he is coming back......

Grifftiggs
06-08-2010, 10:49 AM
Phil Jackson stop your whining. Go to a team that doesnt have the best player in the NBa and try to win without him. Oh yea, you can't. MJ, Kobe, try and win without them.

RaiderLakersA's
06-08-2010, 11:51 AM
"Kevin McHale gave them Kevin Garnett," cracked Jackson, speaking of McHale when he was VP of basketball operations in Minnesota. "I mean, why not? Geez. That's somebody calling the kettle black."

http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-simers-20100604,0,2697091.column?page=2

It's the truth. Everyone seems to forget this fact. But Phil has it right: McHale's gift led to West's gift. Both teams benefitted from alumni. :D

homestarunner93
06-08-2010, 12:00 PM
Phil Jackson needs to keep his mouth shut. He got Pau Gasol for way less than Boston gave up for Kevin Garnett.

RaiderLakersA's
06-08-2010, 12:08 PM
Why is everyone so up in arms over this? This is hilarious to me! Wow, didn't realize how many sensitive people there are/were over the Garnett deal.

pebloemer
06-08-2010, 12:21 PM
ya by pure luck. None of the return players were worth a **** in anyones mind. Plus it could have been zack randolph that helped them, along with gay and mayo growing another year.

Agreed. At the time the deals were made, TWolves recieved much better compensation for Garnett than the Grizzlies recieved for Gasol.

Da Knicks
06-08-2010, 12:26 PM
Phil Jackson just opened a can of worms how do you criticize Mchale when your lakers were built up around the same f-up trades so the lakers and celtics could end up in yet another finals series. Whats next the yankees crying that they dont get enough help, or the cowboys needing more exposure? The show got old a long time ago put different teams in the finals of course they have to be big market teams for the ratings though. How about Miami, New York, Chicago vs Phoenix or Dallas? how were the ratings for dallas vs miami? maybe that one is not such a good idea unless you put some contrevarsy in the series the nba is trying they need better actors.

tbone2171
06-08-2010, 12:41 PM
u r saying a 20/10 player is garbage...what would u call a FO drafting 2 PG's with the 5th and 6th overall picks and 1 PG is playing elsewhere and who knows when he is coming back......

Wow, way to bring that up :facepalm:

cmellofan15
06-08-2010, 12:44 PM
say whaaat?!

SLY WILLIAMS
06-08-2010, 12:45 PM
Looking at the trade from 2011 going forward would you rather have a 34 year old KG or 25 year old Al Jefferson, Wayne Ellington, Ryan Gomes, and Johnny Flynn, and cap room?

Double_R
06-08-2010, 12:52 PM
it seems like the Gasol trade help the Grizzlies more then the Garnett trade helped the t-wolves.. Phil is right on this one..

You obviously know nothing about basketball... The Celtics gave up a very young 20-10 guy in Al Jefferson and it wasn't a deal that you were like how'd this happen... The Gasol trade was insane, Marc Gasol has been good, but he was a 2nd rounder that wasn't highly touted... The Grizzlies have just gotten better all round, and adding Z. Randolph didn't hurt... Phil is just talking shizzle.

Da Knicks
06-08-2010, 01:05 PM
Hey sly how many other teams had a chance at these trades seems like all the trades happend rather quickly were no other team had a chance to make an offer. Correct me if im wrong.

C_Mund
06-08-2010, 01:16 PM
Could you imagine PJ at a family bbq?
He'd be spreading gossip until everybody was pulling hair and scratching each other...
and good ol' Phil would light up a dub and watch the chaos

skinsfan4life80
06-08-2010, 02:37 PM
The Gasol trade was a good trade for both teams. This explains why

http://www.playersvoice.com/nba/a-win-win-situation.html

celtisox41
06-08-2010, 02:38 PM
Phil Jackson is a fool. He was given Pau Gasol (who is way overrated by laker fans) for much less than the garnett deal. Garnett was traded for Jefferson who is an all star caliber player, gomes who is a decent bench guy, and green who was supposed to become an all star (didn't pan out but at the time he was highly regarded)

a4anthony
06-08-2010, 02:41 PM
Phil Jackson was given Jordan, O'Neal, Bryant. Phil Jackson was given 10 rings. Phil Jackson was given credit for ****. Phil Jackson gets outcoached.....regularly. He is one of the most overrated coaches in history.

we have to be related lol. serously let larry brown, pat riley, even doc rivers coach those guys and how much rings would they have. i serously could agrue that any of those guys i just named could have more rings

majestic
06-08-2010, 02:43 PM
i believed this as soon as the trade happaned, so obvious. phil is right

and jerry west gave the lakers pau gasol.

walah with stern paying the refs, u get lakers/celtics.

gotta love the wwe. i mean nba

a4anthony
06-08-2010, 02:43 PM
Looking at the trade from 2011 going forward would you rather have a 34 year old KG or 25 year old Al Jefferson, Wayne Ellington, Ryan Gomes, and Johnny Flynn, and cap room?

great point hey does anyone know how much draft picks da Cs gave up?

a4anthony
06-08-2010, 02:45 PM
i believed this as soon as the trade happaned, so obvious. phil is right

and jerry west gave the lakers pau gasol.

walah with stern paying the refs, u get lakers/celtics.

gotta love the wwe. i mean nba

if the nba was fixed (sometimes it may seem that way) you would see lebron and kobe every year

skinsfan4life80
06-08-2010, 02:54 PM
Two years from now when Marc is better then Pau, and cost a third of the price no one will be saying the the trade was so terriable.

Da Knicks
06-08-2010, 02:55 PM
No you are wrong they tried lebron us market vs spurs international market didnt work for the ratings. Lebron in a big market next year hopefully New York vs L.A. now thats reality tv. But seems like everyone is catching on to this its being happing for years but oh well stern should of known a sitcom can get old boston vs la is boring=full house, family matters, friends, seinfield new teams with contrevarsies=flava flav, dancing with the stars, american idol. I would love to see New York vs Phoenix that would be fun to watch nash bleeding, steve kerr jumping like a girl, knick fans roaring the whole time!!!

RaiderLakersA's
06-08-2010, 03:03 PM
... how many other teams had a chance at these trades seems like all the trades happend rather quickly were no other team had a chance to make an offer. Correct me if im wrong.

That's how I see it, too -- that no one but the Celtics were going to get Garnett (because of McHale), and no one but the Lakers were going to get Gasol (because of West). It was just two franchises enjoying the perks of the good old boy network.

And no matter which team you root for, we all know that the Celtics don't win a title without Garnett in '08, and the Lakers don't win a title without Gasol in '09. This stuff is priceless! :D :D :D

ballpd05
06-08-2010, 03:07 PM
The Gasol trade is worse. Pau Gasol is underrated as far as his effectiveness if you ask me, and there was a reason Popovich started crying when he found out. The other Gasol is one of those fluke gifts. Mac was a second round pick who was still overseas and was put in as a filler. Kind of like the Shannon Brown/Ammo for Vladimir Radmonovich trade. Nobody thought Shannon would be the value there.

The Minnesota/Celtic trade was KG for Al. Too elite offensive big men with the Celtics aiming to win right away and the T'Wolves rebuilding. But both were 20-10 guys. KG is a way better defender though.

RaiderLakersA's
06-08-2010, 03:13 PM
The Minnesota/Celtic trade was KG for Al. Too elite offensive big men with the Celtics aiming to win right away and the T'Wolves rebuilding.

You are seriously in denial if you think that any other team in the league who had KG's rights would have traded him for AJ. Come on now, let's be honest. KG wasn't just "elite" he was FRANCHISE material. AJ was good, but not valued nearly as much as KG.

Or put another way, the Celtics don't win a title with a "Big 3" comprised of Pierce, Ray Allen and Al Jefferson... and I'm pretty sure most Celtics fan would agree.

skinsfan4life80
06-08-2010, 03:21 PM
That's how I see it, too -- that no one but the Celtics were going to get Garnett (because of McHale), and no one but the Lakers were going to get Gasol (because of West). It was just two franchises enjoying the perks of the good old boy network.

And no matter which team you root for, we all know that the Celtics don't win a title without Garnett in '08, and the Lakers don't win a title without Gasol in '09. This stuff is priceless! :D :D :D

The Grizz had been trying to move Gasol for almost a year. The fact is no one wanted to pick up his big contracted and he had missed more then 20 games two of the last three seasons. The Bulls were interested but didnt want to give up anything for him. The Grizz just couldnt get anything for Pau, he was labeled as soft and he hadnt won anything. The two first round draft picks and Javaris Critten who was a first round pick the year before and the cap relief was by far the best offer that had gotten for Pau.

magichatnumber9
06-08-2010, 03:24 PM
Hey Phil Jackson Michael Jordan and Kobe Bryant gave you 10 championships. How U luv dat you old bamf

Atticus Finch
06-08-2010, 03:34 PM
we have to be related lol. serously let larry brown, pat riley, even doc rivers coach those guys and how much rings would they have. i serously could agrue that any of those guys i just named could have more rings

Pat Riley had magic, Kareem, worthy, Scott, Cooper, and plenty of other quality players. Doc rivers was mediocre until he got 3 hall of famers and now a premier PG in Rondo. Larry brown had a starting lineup of 5 all-stars, anchored by one of the best defensive players ever for his only championship. How about you make a real argument and show me the best coach to win a title with bad players, something you can actually prove.

THE MTL
06-08-2010, 03:38 PM
"Kevin McHale gave them Kevin Garnett," cracked Jackson, speaking of McHale when he was VP of basketball operations in Minnesota. "I mean, why not? Geez. That's somebody calling the kettle black."

http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-simers-20100604,0,2697091.column?page=2

WTF!!!! At least Boston Celtics gave up a young potential allstar in Al Jefferson who had consecutive 20-10 seasons under the Wolves.

What did the Lakers give up in the Gasol trade? Kwame Brown (9 million expiring) wow! And then Critten, is he still in the league?

THE MTL
06-08-2010, 03:42 PM
Pat Riley had magic, Kareem, worthy, Scott, Cooper, and plenty of other quality players. Doc rivers was mediocre until he got 3 hall of famers and now a premier PG in Rondo. Larry brown had a starting lineup of 5 all-stars, anchored by one of the best defensive players ever for his only championship. How about you make a real argument and show me the best coach to win a title with bad players, something you can actually prove.

WHoa! Pistons was all chemistry. There was NO "true" allstar on that team besides Billups.

THE MTL
06-08-2010, 03:46 PM
I dont know how a guy who coached Michael Jordan and Scottie Pippen. And then turned around only to coach Shaq and KObe. And then left coaching only to come back to coach stacked Lakers team featuring Superstar Kobe and Pau Gasol.

Life is so unfair for Phil Jackson. MOST OVERRATED coach ever. His whole playoff records, coaching rings, winning percentages, is ALL CRAP if u ask me! Maybe coach a team that deosnt feature a GOAT caliber player.

Also, STOP trying to coach Lebron James next season!!!!!!

C_Mund
06-08-2010, 03:47 PM
Also, Celtics traded their WHOLE team for KG, an emerging star in Jefferson, loads of potential in Gerald Green, serviceable player in Ryan Gomes, Sebastian Telfair. Lakers got Gasol for what....Marc Gasol and Kwame Brown? lol Oh..and crittenton.

Their whole team....except for Perkins, Rondo, Pierce and Ray Ray...oh, right....ALL of their current starters.
Al is pretty decent, but Gerald Green is just awful, Sebastian Telfair is pretty bad, Gomes is servicable at best. KG is one of the best to ever play the PF position. Don't act like McHale wasn't doing this out of love for the Celts.
Both trades were pretty outrageous.

Atticus Finch
06-08-2010, 04:33 PM
WHoa! Pistons was all chemistry. There was NO "true" allstar on that team besides Billups.

I'm assuming you mean no superstar, which is completely true, but lets not pretend that he had a team of scrubs. They were all arguably top 5 in their respective positions with the exception of maybe rasheed at that time. My point was not to downplay Larry brown but to show that Phil gets penalized for having great players more than any other coach. Red auerbach coached 9 hall of famers yet you never hear about that.

Bruno
06-08-2010, 04:42 PM
WTF!!!! At least Boston Celtics gave up a young potential allstar in Al Jefferson who had consecutive 20-10 seasons under the Wolves.

What did the Lakers give up in the Gasol trade? Kwame Brown (9 million expiring) wow! And then Critten, is he still in the league?

The Lakers gave up Marc Gasol who had a higher 2009-2010 PER than Al Jefferson. Kwames expiring contract is why they will be able to resign Gay this off-season if they choose. The Griz are 2nd to last in payroll because of it.

Lil Rhody
06-08-2010, 05:09 PM
cry me a ****ing river. You got one of the best big men in the league for the next 7 years for jack ****

Bruno
06-08-2010, 05:24 PM
cry me a ****ing river. You got one of the best big men in the league for the next 7 years for jack ****

If getting a 24 year old 7 footer who has a PER of over 19 on 58 FG% and the cap space to gamble on Iverson, and resign your best wing player is jack ****, then ok.

magichatnumber9
06-08-2010, 05:27 PM
Jenny Bus has daddy issues. That's what were talking about right?

magichatnumber9
06-08-2010, 05:28 PM
cry me a ****ing river. You got one of the best big men in the league for the next 7 years for jack ****no they get the best hygienically challenged big man for the next 7 years for jack.

JNA17
06-08-2010, 05:57 PM
in before lo.....oh wait it's not going to be locked? Ah well i tried.

redsox1520
06-08-2010, 06:02 PM
Boston gave up WAY more for KG than the Lakers did for Pau

Boston gave up:
Al Jefferson, a 20-10 guy, who, when healthy will make all star teams
Ryan Gomes, who has started for them in the past, but is more suited to be a 7th man off the bench
Theo Ratliff, a expiring
Sebastian Telfair and Gerald Gomes, who were considered good at that time (both a few years removed from being 1st rounders)
A 2009 Boston 1st round pick (Wayne Ellington)
Minnesota's 2008 pick back (Minnesota had traded this pick for Ricky Davis), which was OJ Mayo, who was traded for Love and Miller

So, Boston gave up what is now the core of the T-wolves team
C- Al Jefferson
PF- Kevin Love
SF- Ryan Gomes
SG- Wayne Ellington
PG- Johnny Flynn or Ricky Rubio (Mike Miller was a major part of the deal that got them the 5th overall pick from Washington last year)
That's 3 very good, all star players

LA gave up:
Expirings (Kwame and Mckinney)
Marc Gasol, a quality player, but nothing near the talent of Pau

Phil Jackson should shut the **** up and stop his moaning

WSU Tony
06-08-2010, 07:22 PM
Free players going to the "big market" teams? "Big market" teams winning the lottery? Home town kids going #1 to the home town team?

And you guys are naive enough to think nothings going on....

JNA17
06-08-2010, 07:29 PM
And you guys are naive enough to think nothings going on....

they use the spurs winning 4 titles as an excuse.

JWO35
06-08-2010, 07:31 PM
Al Jefferson > Marc Gasol


/thread

Da Knicks
06-08-2010, 07:39 PM
I dont think you can use the spurs because that was an international team that they used to make sure they got ratings and tried to put him up against the best u.s. player in Lebron. Smart business plan how many international players were there in the spurs and cavs finals? the nba is a business people lets not forget that.

fresh prince
06-08-2010, 08:05 PM
Jerry West gave Gasol to the Lakers.

That was more of a rape than the Celtics trade

This is probably the 3rd time Ive seen this in the thread.

Chris Wallace was the Memphis GM

Jerry West was back in Cali working on Celebrity golf tournaments when Gasol was dealt.

Its funny how perception becomes reality. I mean dudes are on here making fact based statements " Jerry West gave...."

When he wasnt even around...

The Jokemaker
06-08-2010, 08:26 PM
Hey at least the Grizzlies got someone good out of the Gasol deal and used the cap space to get Zach Randolph. Meanwhile the Twolves got the celtics D-league roster and Al Jeff who they are trying to get rid of in favor of, wait for it, Kevin Love. Garnett to Boston was the bigger steal.

In regard to the Zen Man's comment. He needs to hush because the Lakers sure aren't hurting for anything right now.

redsox1520
06-08-2010, 08:30 PM
Hey at least the Grizzlies got someone good out of the Gasol deal and used the cap space to get Zach Randolph. Meanwhile the Twolves got the celtics D-league roster and Al Jeff who they are trying to get rid of in favor of, wait for it, Kevin Love. Garnett to Boston was the bigger steal.

In regard to the Zen Man's comment. He needs to hush because the Lakers sure aren't hurting for anything right now.

The Timberwolves wouldn't have gotten Love or Al Jefferson if they didn't do that trade because they got their 1st round pick back from Boston which they took Love (Mayo) with

Truheatfan
06-08-2010, 09:07 PM
this *********g guy where does he get the nerve to make stupid comments like this the lakers gat gasol for nothing!!! i cant remember who the hell the lakers gave up and they got a top big man at least the t wolves got al jefferson!what a hypocrite!

OT Thriller
06-08-2010, 09:10 PM
I love the Zen Master!!

masalex1205
06-08-2010, 09:19 PM
well thats hypocritical

bagwell368
06-08-2010, 09:29 PM
What's really funny is that Phil think anybody cares about what he says...

"Leon Pow"

or complaining about the refs after game 2 when the Lakers had a 15 shot advantage from the line

I played ball against Phil in the summer of '87. He was a elbow throwing, cheating, trash talking fool - hasn't changed a bit - and oh yes, I outplayed him regardless of his unmanly behavior. Zen master? Whiny beatch more like.

allvalleychamp
06-08-2010, 09:37 PM
Wolves got Jefferson a early 20s- 20/10 guy and other young talent...the Grizzlies got Kwame Brown and Critterion for Gasol- the lakers went from a struggling to make the playoffs, 7 seed to where they are today...Charlotte also gave away Kobe for Vlade so what is Jackson's complaint!

Bruno
06-09-2010, 04:38 PM
What's really funny is that Phil think anybody cares about what he says...

"Leon Pow"

or complaining about the refs after game 2 when the Lakers had a 15 shot advantage from the line

I played ball against Phil in the summer of '87. He was a elbow throwing, cheating, trash talking fool - hasn't changed a bit - and oh yes, I outplayed him regardless of his unmanly behavior. Zen master? Whiny beatch more like.

It seemed like Doc Rivers cared last night during his post game interview.

CowboysKB24
06-09-2010, 04:41 PM
What's really funny is that Phil think anybody cares about what he says...

"Leon Pow"

or complaining about the refs after game 2 when the Lakers had a 15 shot advantage from the line

I played ball against Phil in the summer of '87. He was a elbow throwing, cheating, trash talking fool - hasn't changed a bit - and oh yes, I outplayed him regardless of his unmanly behavior. Zen master? Whiny beatch more like.

You can't really criticize Phil. People care about what he has to say. He has fans and obviously Doc cares about what he said since he brought it up in an interview. He is the best coach of all time. He is on his way to his first toe ring. His hands are already full of rings.

Bruno
06-09-2010, 04:57 PM
You can't really criticize Phil. People care about what he has to say. He has fans and obviously Doc cares about what he said since he brought it up in an interview. He is the best coach of all time. He is on his way to his first toe ring. His hands are already full of rings.

He's already there. He got a ring as a player in 1973 with NYK.

topdog
06-09-2010, 05:10 PM
I think Phil is trying to cover up the Gasol trade, but what he doesn't allude to is that it wasn't "giving" the Celts Garnett like Memphis gave the Lakers Gasol - it was actually an attempt to get the most out of a superstar trade (which is never full value).

McHale actually made a decent trade by getting a promising young big, an insured expiring (Ratliff), a pick, a mistake back (the return of MN's pick from the Ricky D deal), a solid team guy and two unproven potential guys (neither of whom panned out).

What did Memphis get? A good center in the other Gasol? ...not that that's nothing but if he hadn't panned out...

boolish
06-09-2010, 10:23 PM
I thought Minnesota got pretty good value for Garnett :confused:

really? well there's at least one of you out there I guess....