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View Full Version : LBJ and Bosh to The Bulls = Championship contenders or middle of the pack?



D1JM
06-05-2010, 02:23 AM
just like the titles says LBJ and Bosh to The Bulls = Championship contenders or middle of the pack?

giventofly
06-05-2010, 02:30 AM
Really?

I mean.....really?

nyanks79
06-05-2010, 02:32 AM
How do they get Bosh again?

FOBolous
06-05-2010, 02:32 AM
i think if both LBJ and Bosh decides to come to Houston, Houston will instantly become a championship contender. no...Houston WILL be champions. It's predestined. You can't fight it.

links136
06-05-2010, 02:39 AM
if lbl and bosh go anywhere they instantly become title contenders. Except for NY.

astrotown
06-05-2010, 02:44 AM
uhh duh? lebron + bosh + rose ? yeah....

bkmikeyy
06-05-2010, 02:48 AM
They can't sign both straight up...
Please stop this Deng (4 years 52 million) for Bosh nonsense

robdizzle3
06-05-2010, 02:48 AM
First off, like nyanks said, how do they get Bosh? You guys have enough for one right? Of course having both on almost any team will make them contenders, but im almost certain its not gonna happen. Both want to and are gonna get paid big dollars.

D1JM
06-05-2010, 02:56 AM
How do they get Bosh again?

same way the heat end up with three max free agents, just go with the flow and the knicks trade curry lol

JordanPippen
06-05-2010, 03:13 AM
of course man

sean17c
06-05-2010, 03:15 AM
this is really a dumb question. with bosh OR lebron the bulls would be contenders, yet alone BOTH!

and the bulls can trade for bosh

deng taj johnson

kirk taj etc

any deal with kirk or deng

bkmikeyy
06-05-2010, 03:28 AM
this is really a dumb question. with bosh OR lebron the bulls would be contenders, yet alone BOTH!

and the bulls can trade for bosh

deng taj johnson

kirk taj etc

any deal with kirk or deng

WHY WOULD THE RAPTORS WANT DENG'S 4 YEARS 52 MILLION DOLLAR CONTRACT. That's 13 million a year, which is 3 less than the max. They have Turk playing the same position at 10 a year. Kirk means nothing to the Raptors either, he is going to make 17 million in the next two years and they have Jack and Calderon making lots of money. Deng might have one of the top 5 worst contracts in the NBA. You can't dump him anywhere else because you would have to find a team option player with a 10+ million dollar contract in exchange for him in order to actually get cap space to sign Bosh. Neither will happen.

bkmikeyy
06-05-2010, 03:30 AM
same way the heat end up with three max free agents, just go with the flow and the knicks trade curry lol

Knicks don't need to trade Curry to sign both. Curry could be traded to add depth and it is a lot easier to trade an expiring contract for an awful one, than to trade an awful contract for a top 15 player in the NBA.

iFYouSeekAmy
06-05-2010, 03:34 AM
.. where do I start..

Assuming that you are absolutely positive that Lebron or Bosh signs with Chicago (not disrespecting), any one of them would make them contenders. Having both.. well.. the Eastern Conference would have even less competition since 1-7 or even 8th spot would be easily locked up.

JordansBulls
06-05-2010, 08:30 AM
just like the titles says LBJ and Bosh to The Bulls = Championship contenders or middle of the pack?

Getting Bosh alone or Lebron alone makes us title contenders. We are already a playoff team without them and adding them without losing anything makes us better.

Mplsman
06-05-2010, 08:33 AM
Mos Def champs. Although I'd rather see this trio: LBJ, Amare, Drose

mudvayne387
06-05-2010, 08:48 AM
Getting Bosh alone or Lebron alone makes us title contenders. We are already a playoff team without them and adding them without losing anything makes us better.

Haha I laugh at Bull's fans. So many people overrate their current roster its comical.

effen5
06-05-2010, 10:55 AM
Haha I laugh at Bull's fans. So many people overrate their current roster its comical.

NYK.....and no we do not, our so called core has made the playoffs 4 our of the last 5 years.

Raoul Duke
06-05-2010, 10:57 AM
Oh damn I thought it said "to the Knicks" so I voted top 3. In Chicago, they're definite contenders.

Also, what's a tittle?

KnicksorBust
06-05-2010, 11:01 AM
If the Bulls do pull off a miracle and convince the raps to take Deng/Gibson for Bosh then they will probably win 3-4 titles in the next 5 years. If they have to trade Noah to get Bosh then 1-2 titles. I hate to say it but either way if Rose / LeBron / Bosh are all teammates, that team is winning a championship.

Dieselpi
06-05-2010, 11:13 AM
this is just silly, of course adding two players of that caliber to the team they have would put them on the top of the pile, and likely a title. But the question is, and lets be realistic here... how can this happen, again be realistic.

ive said this before in other threads, why would a team like the cavs or the raptors take back bad contracts to facilitate a sign and trade? You have to give them something they want, not something you dont need.

Hustla23
06-05-2010, 11:26 AM
this is just silly, of course adding two players of that caliber to the team they have would put them on the top of the pile, and likely a title. But the question is, and lets be realistic here... how can this happen, again be realistic.

ive said this before in other threads, why would a team like the cavs or the raptors take back bad contracts to facilitate a sign and trade? You have to give them something they want, not something you dont need.
Bulls fans like to deny logic and common sense.

Of course Toronto would love to have one of Hinrich or Deng, whose horrendous contracts would make their rebuild so much smoother.

Whereas the Knicks can offer David Lee or absorb Bosh's contract directly AND even offer Curry's expiring to take Turkoglu's terrible deal off their hands.

Which seems more appealing and more favorable for a rebuild ?

Hustla23
06-05-2010, 11:27 AM
But to answer the question, contenders obviously lol.

Dieselpi
06-05-2010, 11:43 AM
Bulls fans like to deny logic and common sense.

Of course Toronto would love to have one of Hinrich or Deng, whose horrendous contracts would make their rebuild so much smoother.

Whereas the Knicks can offer David Lee or absorb Bosh's contract directly AND even offer Curry's expiring to take Turkoglu's terrible deal off their hands.

Which seems more appealing and more favorable for a rebuild ?

the majority of knicks fans are just as delusional


and on another note, why would the knicks give up curry who is a expiring deal in order to take back hedos mess and get bosh? That isnt happening.

IF the knicks manage to move curry it will be during the season when the team taking him on has to pay very little to have the # come off the books.

nycericanguy
06-05-2010, 11:47 AM
obviously they would be contenders, but they can't sign Lebron & Bosh so this thread is pretty dumb. Anyone who thinks TOR is going to take back huge contracts is delusional.

nycericanguy
06-05-2010, 11:49 AM
the majority of knicks fans are just as delusional


and on another note, why would the knicks give up curry who is a expiring deal in order to take back hedos mess and get bosh? That isnt happening.

IF the knicks manage to move curry it will be during the season when the team taking him on has to pay very little to have the # come off the books.

i agree thats unlikely that NY takes that contract, but if it came down to it and TOR had competing offers with Bosh's consent, then NY would do that deal and that would be a godsend for TOR. NO ONE is going to touch Hedo's contract.

And I don't see how NY fans are delusional, no one from NY is implying that teams are going to take back our crap in S&T's for star players that we can't otherwise sign.

Dieselpi
06-05-2010, 11:55 AM
i agree thats unlikely that NY takes that contract, but if it came down to it and TOR had competing offers with Bosh's consent, then NY would do that deal and that would be a godsend for TOR. NO ONE is going to touch Hedo's contract.

And I don't see how NY fans are delusional, no one from NY is implying that teams are going to take back our crap in S&T's for star players that we can't otherwise sign.

thats assuming two things

one
that bosh wants to be on the same team with hedo
and two
that the knicks would take that gamble without lebron already signing on the dotted line.

kntresistheheat
06-05-2010, 11:56 AM
Uhhhhh, Lebron took a terrible team to the finals (Spurs) imagine if he was with bosh+rose+james=champs!

Revolu7i9n
06-05-2010, 11:56 AM
artest kobe -- i just saved your post so that if the unthinkable happens or the blackhawks win, i'll be taking a massive poo on your face. just a heads up!

obviously title contenders, but it's going to be tough to move deng in a s&t. There is a chance though, because Turk wants out of toronto (last i heard) and a lot depends on how high toronto is on deng. possibility of a three-way?? maybe.

if deng isn't moved and lebron becomes a chicago bull, he could very well be 2011's 6th man of the year.

jeter 2
06-05-2010, 12:01 PM
How do the Bulls get both Lebron and Bosh? Why would a team take on Luol Deng?

effen5
06-05-2010, 12:12 PM
How do the Bulls get both Lebron and Bosh? Why would a team take on Luol Deng?

Its a hypothetical question....do you know what that means?

DeyAce
06-05-2010, 12:16 PM
no one would take deng anyway, he's the most inconsistent player in the game

SaimoNETS
06-05-2010, 12:18 PM
Bulls fans like to deny logic and common sense.

Of course Toronto would love to have one of Hinrich or Deng, whose horrendous contracts would make their rebuild so much smoother.

Whereas the Knicks can offer David Lee or absorb Bosh's contract directly AND even offer Curry's expiring to take Turkoglu's terrible deal off their hands.

Which seems more appealing and more favorable for a rebuild ?

I find that really ironic. :laugh2:

jeter 2
06-05-2010, 12:25 PM
Its a hypothetical question....do you know what that means?

Well, why don't we just make threads for every team saying what if we trade for Lebron and Bosh, would we be championship contenders or middle of the pack? At least, Knicks fans can talk about it because we can sign them both.

Pauleboman
06-05-2010, 12:26 PM
will you stop these stupid posts, for all you losers that think he's going to chicago, think again, there is no way, and i guarantee that he will not be in a bulls uniform next year, keep dreaming losers, chicago will never win another championship in a long time, the flyers are going to beat the blackhawks, the cubs have been a disaster for over 100 years, the bears have cutler, aka "the human pick," and the bulls are going nowhere.

Well see about that and if this is not baiting I dont know what is!!BAN^^^

Dieselpi
06-05-2010, 12:28 PM
Its a hypothetical question....do you know what that means?

its a hypothetical situation but it opens the door to even more ridiculous hypothetical situations like if i went and made a thread that said

what do you guys think the knicks chances of winning a title are if bosh, wade and lebron agree to take less money to play on the same team, and the knicks can trade curry for mello?

its one thing to deal in hypotheticals but lets at least try and make them a tad realistic.

nycericanguy
06-05-2010, 12:29 PM
thats assuming two things

one
that bosh wants to be on the same team with hedo
and two
that the knicks would take that gamble without lebron already signing on the dotted line.

If Lebron & Bosh really want to play together they will talk about things of course and orchestrate it.

Bosh may not like Hedo, but Hedo wouldnt be a big part of the NY team With Gallo & Lebron, he'd be a guy coming off the bench. I highly doubt Bosh is so worried about Hedo that he wouldnt come to NY to play with Lebron because of Hedo.

*-THE REAL GM-*
06-05-2010, 12:31 PM
WHY WOULD THE RAPTORS WANT DENG'S 4 YEARS 52 MILLION DOLLAR CONTRACT. That's 13 million a year, which is 3 less than the max. They have Turk playing the same position at 10 a year. Kirk means nothing to the Raptors either, he is going to make 17 million in the next two years and they have Jack and Calderon making lots of money. Deng might have one of the top 5 worst contracts in the NBA. You can't dump him anywhere else because you would have to find a team option player with a 10+ million dollar contract in exchange for him in order to actually get cap space to sign Bosh. Neither will happen.

Dude are you serious.. I just had to say something on this one..

Turk is garbage in toronto and he wants out of his contract period.. This guy does not care about the money he wants his contract voided.. So right now Turk has the worse contract in the league.. If you think that bosh isnt looking at that, you should think again. raptors are sliding fast.

Deng is a top 10 all around sf that defends well, he is also a international player being from great britian.. He would not mind playing in toronto vs a american born player..

Have you forgotten? Nobody state side player thats real good wants to play in toronto less its a last resort.. They better get deng if they can, because none of your top 15 sfs in the league, minus deng is going to go there willingly.. besides what else are they going to do with there money? no real good player with state side options is going to take it.

Secondly, you dont need a team option player to trade deng. He can be traded utilizing various methods (Deng plus player, Deng plus picks, etc ).. nobody on the bulls or raptors is untradable.

You can count on a couple of things. If bosh wants to go to chicago, the raps are not getting noah or rose.. So they will take deng plus another player or picks etc. or he will go to another team and they will get nothing better, maybe another turk.. Toronto is probably the last place state side players want to be, they better get the best international players that they can.

Hustla23
06-05-2010, 12:35 PM
I find that really ironic. :laugh2:
Really ? :laugh2:

Hustla23
06-05-2010, 12:36 PM
will you stop these stupid posts, for all you losers that think he's going to chicago, think again, there is no way, and i guarantee that he will not be in a bulls uniform next year, keep dreaming losers, chicago will never win another championship in a long time, the flyers are going to beat the blackhawks, the cubs have been a disaster for over 100 years, the bears have cutler, aka "the human pick," and the bulls are going nowhere.
ROFL The human prick ?

Aren't pricks humans to begin with ?

BullySixChicago
06-05-2010, 12:38 PM
WHY WOULD THE RAPTORS WANT DENG'S 4 YEARS 52 MILLION DOLLAR CONTRACT. That's 13 million a year, which is 3 less than the max. They have Turk playing the same position at 10 a year. Kirk means nothing to the Raptors either, he is going to make 17 million in the next two years and they have Jack and Calderon making lots of money. Deng might have one of the top 5 worst contracts in the NBA. You can't dump him anywhere else because you would have to find a team option player with a 10+ million dollar contract in exchange for him in order to actually get cap space to sign Bosh. Neither will happen.Actually the raps have no leverage in this situation if Bosh wants to go to the Bulls what can the raps do? I mean Bosh has the leverage he can sign the 5 year deal which is worth 19.4 mil a season now in a sign and trade Bosh salary would be 21.16 a difference of 1.76 for 5 years but the 6th year is worth 30 more than the 5 year deal. The raps are faced with give him in a 6th year in a sign and trade or get nothing. Both Deng and Kirk can be included in a sign and trade for Bosh which makes the Raps have a good set of talent and with Turk whinning about not wanting to come back its necessary that the raps take deng's contract if offerred in the deal for Bosh. So thy get something in return. Now the Bulls are in the same situation with the Cavs sign and trade for Bron or get nothing, the idea thing for the Bulls would be to get Bron and Bosh for 5 year deals.

nycericanguy
06-05-2010, 12:40 PM
Actually the raps have no leverage in this situation if Bosh wants to go to the Bulls what can the raps do? I mean Bosh has the leverage he can sign the 5 year deal which is worth 19.4 mil a season now in a sign and trade Bosh salary would be 21.16 a difference of 1.76 for 5 years but the 6th year is worth 30 more than the 5 year deal. The raps are faced with give him in a 6th year in a sign and trade or get nothing. Both Deng and Kirk can be included in a sign and trade for Bosh which makes the Raps have a good set of talent and with Turk whinning about not wanting to come back its necessary that the raps take deng's contract if offerred in the deal for Bosh. So thy get something in return. Now the Bulls are in the same situation with the Cavs sign and trade for Bron or get nothing, the idea thing for the Bulls would be to get Bron and Bosh for 5 year deals.

:facepalm:

jeter 2
06-05-2010, 12:41 PM
Dude are you serious.. I just had to say something on this one..

Turk is garbage in toronto and he wants out of his contract period.. This guy does not care about the money he wants his contract voided.. So right now Turk has the worse contract in the league.. If you think that bosh isnt looking at that, you should think again. raptors are sliding fast.

Deng is a top 10 all around sf that defends well, he is also a international player being from great britian.. He would not mind playing in toronto vs a american born player..

Have you forgotten? Nobody state side player thats real good wants to play in toronto less its a last resort.. They better get deng if they can, because none of your top 15 sfs in the league, minus deng is going to go there willingly.. besides what else are they going to do with there money? no real good player with state side options is going to take it.

Secondly, you dont need a team option player to trade deng. He can be traded utilizing various methods (Deng plus player, Deng plus picks, etc ).. nobody on the bulls or raptors is untradable.

You can count on a couple of things. If bosh wants to go to chicago, the raps are not getting noah or rose.. So they will take deng plus another player or picks etc. or he will go to another team and they will get nothing better, maybe another turk.. Toronto is probably the last place state side players want to be, they better get the best international players that they can.

This is where all Bulls fans are delusional. If Bosh leaves Toronto, if Amare leaves Phoenix and if Johnson leaves Atlanta, all these teams will all have significant cap space. These teams will all have around 10 million to spend. They do have leverage. Why would teams surrender that on a player that does not even make them a playoff team? You should honestly think about changing your user name.

Hustla23
06-05-2010, 12:45 PM
Actually the raps have no leverage in this situation if Bosh wants to go to the Bulls what can the raps do? I mean Bosh has the leverage he can sign the 5 year deal which is worth 19.4 mil a season now in a sign and trade Bosh salary would be 21.16 a difference of 1.76 for 5 years but the 6th year is worth 30 more than the 5 year deal. The raps are faced with give him in a 6th year in a sign and trade or get nothing. Both Deng and Kirk can be included in a sign and trade for Bosh which makes the Raps have a good set of talent and with Turk whinning about not wanting to come back its necessary that the raps take deng's contract if offerred in the deal for Bosh. So thy get something in return. Now the Bulls are in the same situation with the Cavs sign and trade for Bron or get nothing, the idea thing for the Bulls would be to get Bron and Bosh for 5 year deals.
What can the Raptors do ?

They can NOT sign and trade Bosh and see if he likes an 8 million dollar salary.

Yeah, tons of leverage the Bulls have. :laugh2:

BullySixChicago
06-05-2010, 12:47 PM
Dude are you serious.. I just had to say something on this one..

Turk is garbage in toronto and he wants out of his contract period.. This guy does not care about the money he wants his contract voided.. So right now Turk has the worse contract in the league.. If you think that bosh isnt looking at that, you should think again. raptors are sliding fast.

Deng is a top 10 all around sf that defends well, he is also a international player being from great britian.. He would not mind playing in toronto vs a american born player..

Have you forgotten? Nobody state side player thats real good wants to play in toronto less its a last resort.. They better get deng if they can, because none of your top 15 sfs in the league, minus deng is going to go there willingly.. besides what else are they going to do with there money? no real good player with state side options is going to take it.

Secondly, you dont need a team option player to trade deng. He can be traded utilizing various methods (Deng plus player, Deng plus picks, etc ).. nobody on the bulls or raptors is untradable.

You can count on a couple of things. If bosh wants to go to chicago, the raps are not getting noah or rose.. So they will take deng plus another player or picks etc. or he will go to another team and they will get nothing better, maybe another turk.. Toronto is probably the last place state side players want to be, they better get the best international players that they can.

wow could not have said it any better than you did but do you think it was understood?

Dieselpi
06-05-2010, 12:50 PM
how does toronto not have leverage?
they can just not sign and trade bosh, let him walk

bosh is the one that stands to lose out on 30 mil if the trade isnt equitable to the raptors
all the raptors lose is a player they were going to lose anyway, and that isnt a huge loss id you arent going to offer them something in return they want and need

Dieselpi
06-05-2010, 12:52 PM
If Lebron & Bosh really want to play together they will talk about things of course and orchestrate it.

Bosh may not like Hedo, but Hedo wouldnt be a big part of the NY team With Gallo & Lebron, he'd be a guy coming off the bench. I highly doubt Bosh is so worried about Hedo that he wouldnt come to NY to play with Lebron because of Hedo.

lol hedo wont be a factor? just gonna hide a guy making that much on the bench? cmon the knicks arent taking on hedo just to get bosh.

nycericanguy
06-05-2010, 12:54 PM
lol hedo wont be a factor? just gonna hide a guy making that much on the bench? cmon the knicks arent taking on hedo just to get bosh.

If Lebron & Bosh agree to come to NY and TOR plays hardball and wants NY to take Hedo, you think NY wouldnt take that deal in a heartbeat? Seriously?

obviously they would prefer NOT to take Hedo, but if it came down to it of course they would, its not like he's useless anyway, he would be a good player off the bench.

Hustla23
06-05-2010, 12:55 PM
lol hedo wont be a factor? just gonna hide a guy making that much on the bench? cmon the knicks arent taking on hedo just to get bosh.
If the Knicks were compelled to take Hedo in a trade to get Bosh --> to ultimately get Lebron, you can bet for damn sure they take Hedo.

bkmikeyy
06-05-2010, 12:59 PM
Dude are you serious.. I just had to say something on this one..

Turk is garbage in toronto and he wants out of his contract period.. This guy does not care about the money he wants his contract voided.. So right now Turk has the worse contract in the league.. If you think that bosh isnt looking at that, you should think again. raptors are sliding fast.

Deng is a top 10 all around sf that defends well, he is also a international player being from great britian.. He would not mind playing in toronto vs a american born player..

Have you forgotten? Nobody state side player thats real good wants to play in toronto less its a last resort.. They better get deng if they can, because none of your top 15 sfs in the league, minus deng is going to go there willingly.. besides what else are they going to do with there money? no real good player with state side options is going to take it.

Secondly, you dont need a team option player to trade deng. He can be traded utilizing various methods (Deng plus player, Deng plus picks, etc ).. nobody on the bulls or raptors is untradable.

You can count on a couple of things. If bosh wants to go to chicago, the raps are not getting noah or rose.. So they will take deng plus another player or picks etc. or he will go to another team and they will get nothing better, maybe another turk.. Toronto is probably the last place state side players want to be, they better get the best international players that they can.

Why would a rebuilding Raptors team want anything to do with a 4 year 52 million dollar contract that wont get them anywhere?!?! People don't get what a cap is. 13 million a year is almost 25% of the cap, Deng is arguably not even a top 10 player at his position.

IT DOESN'T MATTER WHERE DENG WANTS TO PLAY. He is under contract for 4 years. The Raptors have signed players in the past, Deng would cripple that team for a very long time. They would be over the cap finishing 11th in the East for the next 4 years. They are better off getting no one, not paying 13 million a year, and getting a decent draft pick.

Dieselpi
06-05-2010, 01:02 PM
If the Knicks were compelled to take Hedo in a trade to get Bosh --> to ultimately get Lebron, you can bet for damn sure they take Hedo.

why take one hedo when you can just sign a player for money
you dont waste a expiring contract just to take on another mess

furthermore, i said it earlier for this to even be a remote possibility you need to have lebron on board already.

imagine what the media and fans would do if the knicks walked away from the offseason having moved curry and ended up with hedo and bosh and nothing else?

Hustla23
06-05-2010, 01:03 PM
Why would a rebuilding Raptors team want anything to do with a 4 year 52 million dollar contract that wont get them anywhere?!?! People don't get what a cap is. 13 million a year is almost 25% of the cap, Deng is arguably not even a top 10 player at his position.

IT DOESN'T MATTER WHERE DENG WANTS TO PLAY. He is under contract for 4 years. The Raptors have signed players in the past, Deng would cripple that team for a very long time. They would be over the cap finishing 11th in the East for the next 4 years. They are better off getting no one, not paying 13 million a year, and getting a decent draft pick.
bkmikeyy, Please think before you post.

WHY would the Raptors want to rebuild and get good draft picks ?

It's pretty clear they would rather take back bad contracts and suck and have no cap space and pick in the late lottery every year.

Hustla23
06-05-2010, 01:04 PM
why take one hedo when you can just sign a player for money
you dont waste a expiring contract just to take on another mess

furthermore, i said it earlier for this to even be a remote possibility you need to have lebron on board already.

imagine what the media and fans would do if the knicks walked away from the offseason having moved curry and ended up with hedo and bosh and nothing else?
Because the Knicks don't have enough leverage to deny that possibility.

Bosh has said that he would like to go to a multiple number of teams.

Meaning, teams are going to have to put out a competitive offer for Bosh in a sign and trade.

The best the Knicks can do is offer Lee and offer to take Hedo's contract back.

They don't have a Noah or picks like the Bulls or other young talent like other teams.

bkmikeyy
06-05-2010, 01:07 PM
bkmikeyy, Please think before you post.

WHY would the Raptors want to rebuild and get good draft picks ?

It's pretty clear they would rather take back bad contracts and suck and have no cap space and pick in the late lottery every year.

Sorry, I guess a team that finished 9th with Chris Bosh, could try their luck for the next 4 years switching him with a guy named Deng and paying him similar money.

bkmikeyy
06-05-2010, 01:08 PM
Because the Knicks don't have enough leverage to deny that possibility.

Bosh has said that he would like to go to a multiple number of teams.

Meaning, teams are going to have to put out a competitive offer for Bosh in a sign and trade.

The best the Knicks can do is offer Lee and offer to take Hedo's contract back.

They don't have a Noah or picks like the Bulls or other young talent like other teams.

We can take back calderon's contract too, that might be more beneficial for us.

igPay atinLay
06-05-2010, 01:11 PM
One thing I haven't seen posted is that Toronto has no leverage.

The only way a sign and trade can even happen is if Bosh agrees to the sign part. No one is likely to give a big offer because Bosh could always void a deal by not signing.

Toronto gets greedy in their demands in a sign and trade for Bosh deal then they lose Bosh for nothing.

Dieselpi
06-05-2010, 01:18 PM
Because the Knicks don't have enough leverage to deny that possibility.

Bosh has said that he would like to go to a multiple number of teams.

Meaning, teams are going to have to put out a competitive offer for Bosh in a sign and trade.

The best the Knicks can do is offer Lee and offer to take Hedo's contract back.

They don't have a Noah or picks like the Bulls or other young talent like other teams.

stop
if lebron and bosh want to come to the knicks they can just sign

again tell me what you think would happen in this city if at the start of the season all the team had to show was bosh and hedo after all the hype? and moving curry at that?

might as well hand the city over to the nets

Dieselpi
06-05-2010, 01:20 PM
One thing I haven't seen posted is that Toronto has no leverage.

The only way a sign and trade can even happen is if Bosh agrees to the sign part. No one is likely to give a big offer because Bosh could always void a deal by not signing.

Toronto gets greedy in their demands in a sign and trade for Bosh deal then they lose Bosh for nothing.

it was posted on the last page

and they do have leverage, lets not make is sound like we are talking about hedo who they are stuck with and have to take back garbage if they want to move him.

they can just let bosh walk, there is no need to take on bad players. A sign and trade is only viable if it is equitable to all the sides involved.

and if i a sign and trade doesnt happen, they party that loses out the most is bosh.

Hustla23
06-05-2010, 01:24 PM
stop
if lebron and bosh want to come to the knicks they can just sign

again tell me what you think would happen in this city if at the start of the season all the team had to show was bosh and hedo after all the hype? and moving curry at that?

might as well hand the city over to the nets
LOL.

Maybe Lebron will just sign since he makes the majority of his $$$ off of endorsements.

But will Bosh leave almost 30 million on the table ?


CHICAGO -- Chris Bosh's agent has told the Toronto Raptors that he's narrowed his list of preferred teams to five, two sources told ESPN.com's Chad Ford at the NBA draft camp.

Bosh
Bosh

The list of five teams -- Toronto plus the Chicago Bulls, Los Angeles Lakers, Miami Heat and New York Knicks, sources said -- was given to Toronto management in case the Raptors want to construct a sign-and-trade deal (assuming Bosh doesn't re-sign with Toronto).

Bosh likes that option, sources told Ford, because he'd get one more year on his contract and could make more money.

And here is Colangelo's quote:


"In respect to the situation for him, there will be a handful of teams next year - I'm guessing between five and ten - which will have maximum allowable free agent money, which means Chris is subject to walk to one of those deals. But, I have to reiterate the point that keeps being overlooked - we're the only team that can offer him a full six years versus five years, 10.5% increases versus 8% increases ... Basically equates to a $30 million dollar difference. So, even if he wants to leave, he's still better served, and we're better served if he works a sign-and-trade with us where we can get some sort of an asset back from the team that he's going to. And, I think that's probably the thing that we'll both push for because he'll benefit from it and we'll benefit from it, and that's why it's probably not time to panic now and make a bad deal."

You can bet for nearly certain that a sign and trade will go down.

It's pretty laughable that you think a sign and trade wouldn't have to happen and that Bosh would just leave 30 million on the table.

As for your question, who knows what will happen ?

There is the possibility that that trade happens and we obtain Bosh and Hedo and Lebron doesn't come.

But I wouldn't fret over it. If we used Curry's expiring, we would still have a max level amount of cap space still remaining. Use that to go after Joe Johnson, or Amare or the like, or even go for Melo the year after with a core of Bosh + Gallo + Chandler + TD + 2010 draft picks and whatever else.

But the main point is, we most likely will have to offer a competitive offer for Bosh in a sign and trade.

The only way in which we wouldn't have to is if Bosh is dead set on joining New York ALONE.

Dieselpi
06-05-2010, 01:31 PM
wait a second, how do you propose they get bosh and hedo in a sign and trade that curry isnt a part of?

and joe johnson? really? you think the fans in this city will really be behind joe johnson getting a max deal

NYK_kidd77
06-05-2010, 01:46 PM
Yes the Bulls would be contenders.

nycericanguy
06-05-2010, 01:49 PM
wait a second, how do you propose they get bosh and hedo in a sign and trade that curry isnt a part of?

and joe johnson? really? you think the fans in this city will really be behind joe johnson getting a max deal

Curry would have to be involved

esoteradactyl
06-05-2010, 01:51 PM
now the bulls have tom thibedaou!!!

Hustla23
06-05-2010, 01:53 PM
wait a second, how do you propose they get bosh and hedo in a sign and trade that curry isnt a part of?

and joe johnson? really? you think the fans in this city will really be behind joe johnson getting a max deal
Curry is a part of it, obviously.

It's just one scenario dude.

Quit harping on minor details and ignoring the argument you don't have.

thekmp211
06-05-2010, 01:54 PM
Haha I laugh at Bull's fans. So many people overrate their current roster its comical.

whats comical is the proposition, not the rating of the team. do you watch basketball? do you know who else is on taht team? if they somehow acquire those guys:

rose
defensive-minded sg
lebron
bosh
noah

whoever's left over from a trade and a couple vet-minimum contracts. that team would make this years' cavs team piss its pants. it almost fits too well, noah would let bosh shine. c'mon, guy, you should know better.

Dieselpi
06-05-2010, 01:55 PM
it would be a move that could end terribly, and lead to donnie being run out of town. And a lot of fans giving up on the team.

Montana_Rob
06-05-2010, 01:56 PM
I voted top 3 but I take that to mean top 3 in the EAST. I think Bron Bron and Rose wouldnt work out perfect like alot of people are saying because both prefer to drive to the hole rather than shoot jumpers

Hustla23
06-05-2010, 01:57 PM
Yeah, obtaining a premier power forward while only really giving up an expiring contract and still maintaining max level cap space is a terrible move. And the fans giving up on the team while obtaining said power forward and maintaining said cap space when they haven't in the last 10 years isn't a reach at all.

DeyAce
06-05-2010, 01:57 PM
whats comical is the proposition, not the rating of the team. do you watch basketball? do you know who else is on taht team? if they somehow acquire those guys:

rose
defensive-minded sg
lebron
bosh
noah



Draft Anderson and it'll be

Rose
Anderson
Lebron
Bosh
Noah

sean17c
06-05-2010, 01:58 PM
deng and taj would actually make toronto better.

they both bring heart and defense, which is something the raps do not have

deng puts up 18 8 3 with 1 or 2 steals with rose taking most of the shots

and taj was putting up 10 10 and 2


the raps WOULD probably make the playoffs with deng and taj instead of both

sean17c
06-05-2010, 02:00 PM
I voted top 3 but I take that to mean top 3 in the EAST. I think Bron Bron and Rose wouldnt work out perfect like alot of people are saying because both prefer to drive to the hole rather than shoot jumpers

rose is the best mid range shooter in the nba. what are you talking about?

thekmp211
06-05-2010, 02:01 PM
deng and taj would actually make toronto better.

they both bring heart and defense, which is something the raps do not have

deng puts up 18 8 3 with 1 or 2 steals with rose taking most of the shots

and taj was putting up 10 10 and 2


the raps WOULD probably make the playoffs with deng and taj instead of both

toronto fans after a year of turkey you will LOVE deng. i think he'd thrive with calderon assuming he's still around.

Dieselpi
06-05-2010, 02:04 PM
Yeah, obtaining a premier power forward while only really giving up an expiring contract and still maintaining max level cap space is a terrible move. And the fans giving up on the team while obtaining said power forward and maintaining said cap space when they haven't in the last 10 years isn't a reach at all.

see now you are just picking which parts of posts you respond to

if the knicks do all of this and dont get lebron it will go down as a terrible offseason.

going into the season with a roster of bosh, hedo, and say joe johnson and using up currys expiring deal would cause some fans to be done with the team.

Hustla23
06-05-2010, 02:07 PM
see now you are just picking which parts of posts you respond to

if the knicks do all of this and dont get lebron it will go down as a terrible offseason.

going into the season with a roster of bosh, hedo, and say joe johnson and using up currys expiring deal would cause some fans to be done with the team.
........

I'm having a hard time determining whether you're being serious or not.

Those were the two points you made.

And I responded to both points.

How is that picking parts of posts. :confused:

What you're saying is borderline ********.

Forget this. You win. Just go home. :laugh2:

chisoxfan620
06-05-2010, 02:12 PM
Can't believe this is even a thread. Lebron, Bosh, D-rose, and Noah...Yes that is a title contending team. I would even go as far as to say it's a huge disappointment if they don't win the title.

RoyalG333
06-05-2010, 02:15 PM
Lebron+Bosh+Rose+Noah=contender


it all depends on the right coach to manage egos, AND the right role players. Team chemistry is still very important and without the right pieces around the stars, a championship is not possible.

thekmp211
06-05-2010, 02:17 PM
Can't believe this is even a thread. Lebron, Bosh, D-rose, and Noah...Yes that is a title contending team. I would even go as far as to say it's a huge disappointment if they don't win the title.

considering lebron was called a choker with Mo effing williams, jamario effing moon, old fat shaq, a deer-in-headlights jamison and delonte the road warrior, i would say yes, it is a fair assessment that it would be dissapointing.

not to jab at your comment, just trying to nail home the absurd nature of this question. i'm more interested in how chicago gets bosh and why they would trade him to a conference rival.

i think bosh is in miami with wade, or goes to dallas.

thekmp211
06-05-2010, 02:18 PM
........

I'm having a hard time determining whether you're being serious or not.

Those were the two points you made.

And I responded to both points.

How is that picking parts of posts. :confused:

What you're saying is borderline ********.

Forget this. You win. Just go home. :laugh2:


lol. save your energy for the mets forums hustla god knows we need it

Becks2307
06-05-2010, 02:32 PM
see now you are just picking which parts of posts you respond to

if the knicks do all of this and dont get lebron it will go down as a terrible offseason.

going into the season with a roster of bosh, hedo, and say joe johnson and using up currys expiring deal would cause some fans to be done with the team.

you must not know Knick fans. We are ridiculously loyal. For example, im not even putting too much stock into this offseason, even if we dont get anyone big. I just cant wait to see Douglas, Gallo and Chandler play without the bums they have played with the past two years.

During the recent draft lottery, in which the Knicks did NOT have a pick. We had a ton of fans posting in our thread. We are loyal to the end.

Dieselpi
06-05-2010, 03:03 PM
you must not know Knick fans. We are ridiculously loyal. For example, im not even putting too much stock into this offseason, even if we dont get anyone big. I just cant wait to see Douglas, Gallo and Chandler play without the bums they have played with the past two years.

During the recent draft lottery, in which the Knicks did NOT have a pick. We had a ton of fans posting in our thread. We are loyal to the end.

yes i agree ny sports fans as a whole are very loyal, true fans that is.
But we both know living in ny that there is a large portion of casual fans who switch who they root for more than some people change underwear.

Real knick fans will continue to go to the garden regardless of what they cart out on the floor.

All I was getting at is I wouldnt take on hedo in a deal to get bosh unless i knew for a fact that lebron was on board.

If the team goes and gets hedo and bosh in a sign and trade involving curry, and dont get lebron... and say use the remaining cap space to sign johnson to a max deal that would be a mess. The media would eat that up.

As long as donnie is smart this offseason things will be fine, the team has a lot of space to work with, and flexibility is key no matter who you bring in.

IrespectNumber3
06-05-2010, 03:28 PM
Hypothetically Yes...on paper there the best in the East
Realistically? I don't think a FA team can surpass the Lakers

Bynum > Noah
Gasol >= Bosh
Artest << James
Kobe >>> Deng or Heinrich
Fisher/Brown/Farmar << Rose
Odom >> Gibson

Then add in experience and if Phil comes back...Lakers are still better


2nd Salaries dont match so this situation isn't possibly

But I would say 2:1 chance that team could win a Championship since all they have to do is get out of the East.

kozelkid
06-05-2010, 03:33 PM
Hypothetically Yes...on paper there the best in the East
Realistically? I don't think a FA team can surpass the Lakers

Bynum > Noah
Gasol >= Bosh
Artest << James
Kobe >>> Deng or Heinrich
Fisher/Brown/Farmar << Rose
Odom >> Gibson

Then add in experience and if Phil comes back...Lakers are still better


2nd Salaries dont match so this situation isn't possibly

But I would say 2:1 chance that team could win a Championship since all they have to do is get out of the East.

Well by paper you are definitely comparing it in a strange manner.

Bynum>Noah, although slightly
Gasol>Bosh, once again, slightly but Gasol is a better defender
Kobe=Lebron (they would be the 2 top dogs on each team and are both perimeter players) Although, in reality, Lebron is better than Kobe, but we don't need another Lebron vs kobe debate.
Rose> artest or Odom

It gets a bit tricky after this cause Bulls will likely trade Deng and/or Kirk if they get Bosh so they obviously will need to fill the roster with some other players.
With that said, on paper, that team is without a doubt better than the Lakers imo.
Of course alot has to do with chemistry, so we would have to know how they would gel...

Soccer008
06-05-2010, 04:00 PM
Also if LeBron signs with the Bulls, Bosh will demand a trade to the Bulls or he'll walk. That's what I am guessing will happen

97NYer
06-05-2010, 04:06 PM
LeBron and Bosh to any team makes them contenders. Do you really think the Raptors want Deng or Hinrich in a S&T? NY can sign them both outright and hell S&T Curry w/ Chandler/Douglas/Walker for a 3rd.

LeBron
Johnson
Gallo
Bosh

IrespectNumber3
06-05-2010, 04:10 PM
Well by paper you are definitely comparing it in a strange manner.

Bynum>Noah, although slightly
Gasol>Bosh, once again, slightly but Gasol is a better defender
Kobe=Lebron (they would be the 2 top dogs on each team and are both perimeter players) Although, in reality, Lebron is better than Kobe, but we don't need another Lebron vs kobe debate.
Rose> artest or Odom

It gets a bit tricky after this cause Bulls will likely trade Deng and/or Kirk if they get Bosh so they obviously will need to fill the roster with some other players.
With that said, on paper, that team is without a doubt better than the Lakers imo.
Of course alot has to do with chemistry, so we would have to know how they would gel...

Im sorry
1A) Kobe 1)A Lebron
2) Gasol
3)Bosh
4) Rose
5)Bynum
6) Noah
7)Artest
8) Odom

Yes...Its very close there is no way in hell you can say No doubt better then the Lakers...Its false...Its about even or leaning towards LA as far as being a complete team

There is no FA team besides OKC that can down right beat LA without it being close

Jeff559
06-05-2010, 04:11 PM
LBJ to any team in the NBA = title contenders. bosh is just icing on the cake

tonyd3b54
06-05-2010, 04:17 PM
i think theyre east finals competitors if they just get bosh...

pg- rose
sg-
sf- deng
pf- bosh
c- noah

idk who plays sg but theres 3 players on that team that can put up 15ppg atleast and with thibs apparently goin to the bulls theyll have a great defense. deng and noah are already good defenders

knickerbockerny
06-05-2010, 04:43 PM
My Fellow Knicks fans I can't see the Knicks acquiring Hedo under no circumstances. Why? For what? the position we have the most talent at is small forward and we already have Gallinari and Chandler there.

Plus Donnie already said he is not going to make any hasty moves just for the sake of it. But in the hypothetical the Knicks could acquire Hedo if that meant Bosh and James, but I don't see it happening.

Another thing David Lee is an unrestricted free agent, his agent has already come out and said him and his client are not waiting around for others to sign deals. Plus I don't think Toronto is on his radar when there are better teams that want his services like the Thunder and other teams with bright futures like Washington with Wall or the Nets and their core.

To answer the question at hand the Bulls would be contenders without a doubt. But to acquire Bosh while shedding Deng in the process is going to be a tough task, because the entire league knows exactly what the Bulls are trying to do. Plus in today's day and age cap space is at a premium, saving owners millions.

I see a deal along the lines of Noah- 17th pick (this year)-future first added with Deng's large contract getting the job done with the Raptors. Or they could complicate things further and add another team, doing all of that while not adding salary would me and amazing task.

kozelkid
06-05-2010, 04:52 PM
Im sorry
1A) Kobe 1)A Lebron
2) Gasol
3)Bosh
4) Rose
5)Bynum
6) Noah
7)Artest
8) Odom

Yes...Its very close there is no way in hell you can say No doubt better then the Lakers...Its false...Its about even or leaning towards LA as far as being a complete team

There is no FA team besides OKC that can down right beat LA without it being close

Like I said though, you are assuming this without considering the fact that Bulls will obviously fill their holes. Not to mention plenty of veteran ring chasers who come here for a discount, ALA Celtics in 08.
I really don't it's close when you look at it on paper. Just like the fact that in your list 1-4, Bulls have 3 to Lakers 2, but you aren't considering the gap between Rose and Bynum.
Now I agree it would be much closer if Bulls were to sign Lebron and get a decent pf like Troy Murphy or Haslem. But with Bosh, you got a super team. You'd essentially have pretty much 2 top 10 players (well Bosh is borderline) and Rose who can potentially be top 10 and is probably near top 20 at this point.

fin_frenzy_84
06-05-2010, 05:11 PM
One word answer for me.... Dynasty

yojoe792
06-05-2010, 05:36 PM
Uhhmm, can somebody explain the difference between top 3 and title contenders???

arkanian215
06-10-2010, 08:39 PM
Well see about that and if this is not baiting I dont know what is!!BAN^^^

Congrats

Hawkeye15
06-10-2010, 08:44 PM
If the Bulls can sign LJ, and somehow bring in Bosh in a sign and trade while holding onto Rose and Noah, its over for the rest of the league

mikeybears
06-10-2010, 08:55 PM
championship

The Jokemaker
06-10-2010, 10:11 PM
In this clearly hypothetical fantasy land situation, yes they would be title contenders. Three young stars on one team? They could throw out 2 wnba players on the team and still get a top 3 seed.

Soccer008
06-10-2010, 10:28 PM
In this clearly hypothetical fantasy land situation, yes they would be title contenders. Three young stars on one team? They could throw out 2 wnba players on the team and still get a top 3 seed.

I wouldn't say fantasy land all we have to do is sign LeBron and S&T Bosh.

jackdawson
06-10-2010, 11:35 PM
Bulls are getting none of them. Boozer or Johnson at best. Still will be non-factor and middle of the pack.

Pauleboman
06-11-2010, 12:08 AM
Bulls are getting none of them. Boozer or Johnson at best. Still will be non-factor and middle of the pack.

The Bulls have everything Lebron wants!
Teammates that are Great..
The fans are the best overall(A few knuckleheads but what city doesnt).
Great Sports City with alot of Winning History!
They share the UC with the Blackhawks!Champs
Max Dollars and Endorsements.
Minimum 8 Peat-Da Bulls!!!!

Pauleboman
06-11-2010, 12:27 AM
Congrats

PSD :hi5:

ldc62
06-11-2010, 12:36 AM
This question doesn't even need to be asked. IN the East... they would be contenders (1 or 2 seed). Lebron is a choke artist, but no denying he could lead his team to a number 1 seed. Lebron and Bosh would be too unstoppable. 2 middle class man's (not really poor mans) MJ and Hakeem......

Ebbs
06-11-2010, 12:59 AM
Lol I dont know how you get both but if you keep Rose, Bosh, Lebron that is the leagues best 1,2,3 punch. And you would win the next 3 years in a row.

The Jokemaker
06-11-2010, 01:07 AM
I wouldn't say fantasy land all we have to do is sign LeBron and S&T Bosh.

Wow thats simple. Well I don't see how it'll happen since the Grizzlies will be getting Lebron. All they have to do is let Gay walk or sign and trade with Gay to the Cavs for Lebron. Grizz will have the cap space plus sold out arena to help pay for Lebron plus they have good young talent. Definitely a team he can take over the top. It's really a no brainer.

smiddy012
06-11-2010, 03:38 AM
Bosh is likely to follow Lebron. Bosh has given the Raptors 5 teams hes willing to get traded to, CHICAGO IS ONE OF THEM. Say the Bulls sign Lebron, which is entirely possible. Then they could trade or release both Hinrich and Deng. That would leave enough cap space for Bosh. The key is getting rid of Dengs and Hinrichs contracts to add another big name FA besides Lebron.

When it comes to trading Bosh the Raptors dont have much leverage over the situation. A package of Hinrich/Taj/Pic(s) for Bosh wouldnt be out of the realm of possibility.

D1JM
06-11-2010, 03:58 AM
Bulls are getting none of them. Boozer or Johnson at best. Still will be non-factor and middle of the pack.

the biggest bull hater

hestar
06-11-2010, 10:15 AM
They would.But Bosh is coming to Miami though.

nycericanguy
06-11-2010, 10:27 AM
Bosh is likely to follow Lebron. Bosh has given the Raptors 5 teams hes willing to get traded to, CHICAGO IS ONE OF THEM. Say the Bulls sign Lebron, which is entirely possible. Then they could trade or release both Hinrich and Deng. That would leave enough cap space for Bosh. The key is getting rid of Dengs and Hinrichs contracts to add another big name FA besides Lebron.

When it comes to trading Bosh the Raptors dont have much leverage over the situation. A package of Hinrich/Taj/Pic(s) for Bosh wouldnt be out of the realm of possibility.

lol you cant just release players and take their contracts off the cap, this isnt the NFL. Trading either of those guys and not taking back any salary will be next to impossible this summer for CHI.

now if we're playing make believe of course they would be contenders, any team with Bosh & Lebron would instantly be a top 3 team in the east. Rose doesnt fit too good with Lebron though, they are both play makers that need the ball in their hands all the time, that doesnt exactly compliment each other.

They would both be great with a Ray Allen, Reggie Miller or Allan Houston type off the ball player in their primes.

IkeDavis29
06-11-2010, 10:28 AM
makes us title contendersd without a doubt

RipVW
06-11-2010, 10:28 AM
Wow thats simple. Well I don't see how it'll happen since the Grizzlies will be getting Lebron. All they have to do is let Gay walk or sign and trade with Gay to the Cavs for Lebron. Grizz will have the cap space plus sold out arena to help pay for Lebron plus they have good young talent. Definitely a team he can take over the top. It's really a no brainer.


More realistically the Bulls need to trade Deng to any team other than Toronto. At that point, Toronto has really no reason not to accept a draft pick in a sign and trade. Historically draft picks have been a popular compensation given and 2nd round draft picks at that.

Raoul Duke
06-11-2010, 10:34 AM
More realistically the Bulls need to trade Deng to any team other than Toronto.

Is it beyond the realm of possibility that Chicago could go for Bosh first and then try for Lebron via S&T? I'm not saying they're getting Lebron and Bosh, but just humor me here. I think Chicago's trade chips are better suited to a S&T with the Cavs then they are the Raps.

JOSKOMANG4
06-11-2010, 10:48 AM
Title Contender* not tittie contenders

Da Knicks
06-11-2010, 10:48 AM
Any team with bosh and lebron would be championship contenders any team that can sign both of them that is.

JOSKOMANG4
06-11-2010, 10:51 AM
Is it beyond the realm of possibility that Chicago could go for Bosh first and then try for Lebron via S&T? I'm not saying they're getting Lebron and Bosh, but just humor me here. I think Chicago's trade chips are better suited to a S&T with the Cavs then they are the Raps.

I can see Cavs doing a sign & Trade with the Bulls.

Possibly Deng & 2-1st rd picks for Lebron.

C) Noah
PF) Bosh
SF) J.Johnson
SG) LBJ
PG) Rose

Bench:

Hinrich
Taj Gibson

Aussy4GM
06-11-2010, 11:09 AM
WHY WOULD THE RAPTORS WANT DENG'S 4 YEARS 52 MILLION DOLLAR CONTRACT. That's 13 million a year, which is 3 less than the max. They have Turk playing the same position at 10 a year. Kirk means nothing to the Raptors either, he is going to make 17 million in the next two years and they have Jack and Calderon making lots of money. Deng might have one of the top 5 worst contracts in the NBA. You can't dump him anywhere else because you would have to find a team option player with a 10+ million dollar contract in exchange for him in order to actually get cap space to sign Bosh. Neither will happen.


WE WOULDNT HAVE TO TRADE DENG!

the raptors have already been said to have a jizzload in their pants for taj gibson. add kirk hinrich to that and its a deal guaranteed. you people just dont understand. no matter what BOSH is leaving toronto they dont have a choice. if they could get gibson and hinrich for him or nothing. they would take it in a heatbeat.

RipVW
06-11-2010, 11:09 AM
Is it beyond the realm of possibility that Chicago could go for Bosh first and then try for Lebron via S&T? I'm not saying they're getting Lebron and Bosh, but just humor me here. I think Chicago's trade chips are better suited to a S&T with the Cavs then they are the Raps.

You make a good point. That might even be more realistic. But either way, you need to unload salary for both. This draft is rich in SG/SFs in the 10-20 range, which is where Chicago is picking.

mser58
06-11-2010, 11:14 AM
stupid thread

nycericanguy
06-11-2010, 11:43 AM
WE WOULDNT HAVE TO TRADE DENG!

the raptors have already been said to have a jizzload in their pants for taj gibson. add kirk hinrich to that and its a deal guaranteed. you people just dont understand. no matter what BOSH is leaving toronto they dont have a choice. if they could get gibson and hinrich for him or nothing. they would take it in a heatbeat.

I think they'd rather have a huge trade exemption from a team under the cap then take on bad contracts of Hinrich or Deng. They already have enough horrible contracts in TOR... so of course they have a choice!

DLeeicious
06-11-2010, 11:47 AM
LOL at this thread title. I mean really is THIS:

Rose
Hinrich
Lebron
Bosh
Noah

a title contender or middle of the pack?!

bkmikeyy
06-11-2010, 11:53 AM
Christopher Reina of ******.com reports the Bulls were the last addition to the list of teams LeBron James will consider signing with in July. According to Reina there were three factors that made James decide to include Chicago.

Reina writes: "The first is to quell the loud rumors that James has had strong interest in signing with the Knicks ... The second is a legitimate concern that although playing in New York would be the most exciting basketball experience for LeBron and hold the greatest business potential, it may also prove to be an exhausting and complicated endeavor. ... The third is by making it known that Chicago is also a viable destination, James and his team will be able to secure the best terms once he is finally ready to make a decision."

Sources insisted to Reina that James will make an independent decision about whether he re-signs with Cleveland or signs elsewhere.

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/features/rumors#16620



doesn't sound too good for Chicago...

RipVW
06-11-2010, 12:19 PM
Christopher Reina of ******.com reports the Bulls were the last addition to the list of teams LeBron James will consider signing with in July. According to Reina there were three factors that made James decide to include Chicago.

Reina writes: "The first is to quell the loud rumors that James has had strong interest in signing with the Knicks ... The second is a legitimate concern that although playing in New York would be the most exciting basketball experience for LeBron and hold the greatest business potential, it may also prove to be an exhausting and complicated endeavor. ... The third is by making it known that Chicago is also a viable destination, James and his team will be able to secure the best terms once he is finally ready to make a decision."

Sources insisted to Reina that James will make an independent decision about whether he re-signs with Cleveland or signs elsewhere.

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/features/rumors#16620



doesn't sound too good for Chicago...

How is that bad?

Eagles4Lyfe
06-11-2010, 12:31 PM
WHY WOULD THE RAPTORS WANT DENG'S 4 YEARS 52 MILLION DOLLAR CONTRACT. That's 13 million a year, which is 3 less than the max. They have Turk playing the same position at 10 a year. Kirk means nothing to the Raptors either, he is going to make 17 million in the next two years and they have Jack and Calderon making lots of money. Deng might have one of the top 5 worst contracts in the NBA. You can't dump him anywhere else because you would have to find a team option player with a 10+ million dollar contract in exchange for him in order to actually get cap space to sign Bosh. Neither will happen.


Bulls fans like to deny logic and common sense.

Of course Toronto would love to have one of Hinrich or Deng, whose horrendous contracts would make their rebuild so much smoother.

Whereas the Knicks can offer David Lee or absorb Bosh's contract directly AND even offer Curry's expiring to take Turkoglu's terrible deal off their hands.

Which seems more appealing and more favorable for a rebuild ?

Common sense doesnt tend to run with bulls fans:facepalm:...I dont think people understand IF you want to have bosh on your team and make him a happy guy by giving him his extra one year 30 mill, then you have to pony up and give us an asset if not then sianara kiss our *****, good luck keeping him happy..Take your deng and hinrich crap and keep throwing it out because its not happening..Either way if this team happens im happy as a raps fan because im getting noah or rose:D and 2. there not winning titles like no tommorow as long as the celtics stay together, dwight improves his offence and lakers will always be there...Dont forget the thunder too

raps14
06-11-2010, 12:39 PM
A trade with the Bulls would have to include Noah..... Nothing else would work, the Raps wont take your garbage sorry.

RipVW
06-11-2010, 12:41 PM
Common sense doesnt tend to run with bulls fans:facepalm:...I dont think people understand IF you want to have bosh on your team and make him a happy guy by giving him his extra one year 30 mill, then you have to pony up and give us an asset if not then sianara kiss our *****, good luck keeping him happy..Take your deng and hinrich crap and keep throwing it out because its not happening..Either way if this team happens im happy as a raps fan because im getting noah or rose:D and 2. there not winning titles like no tommorow as long as the celtics stay together, dwight improves his offence and lakers will always be there...Dont forget the thunder too

Toronto has no reason to turn down a draft pick. Go check out how S&Ts have been done in the past. Youll see a lot of draft picks being exchanged and 2nd round picks at that.

RipVW
06-11-2010, 12:41 PM
A trade with the Bulls would have to include Noah..... Nothing else would work, the Raps wont take your garbage sorry.

You can have a draft pick. You have no reason to turn that down.

nycericanguy
06-11-2010, 12:53 PM
How is that bad?

who know if this is true, but heres the whole article. its basically saying Lebron intends to go to NY this whole time and was only using CHI for leverage and to make it seem less obvious.

According to two sources with knowledge of the thinking within the inner circle of LeBron James, the Chicago Bulls were a late addition to the list of teams he would genuinely consider in order to establish an alternative to the New York Knicks should he decide to leave the Cleveland Cavaliers this summer.

There are three distinct components and motivations behind the strategy:

The first is to quell the loud rumors that James has had strong interest in signing with the Knicks as a free agent, which had been building for almost two years and were perceived to be on the verge of spiraling out of control after the Celtics knocked the Cavaliers out of the playoffs. Indeed, the New York chatter had literally become a chorus when the Boston crowd serenaded James with “New York Knicks” chants moments before the Cavaliers were eliminated in Game 6.

The second is a legitimate concern that although playing in New York would be the most exciting basketball experience for LeBron and hold the greatest business potential, it may also prove to be an exhausting and complicated endeavor. LeBron's confidantes are comfortable in their current roles and are concerned that the New York atmosphere could be overwhelming, perhaps upsetting the balance of power that surrounds James. Should James decide to end his time in Cleveland, Chicago offers a big-market alternative to the Knicks with what some close to James view as less risk than New York, as well as a Midwestern atmosphere that would be more familiar to them.

The third is that James has expressly given his team wide leeway to manage his affairs as they see fit and explore the full range of possibilities ahead of July 1. The thinking is that by making it known that Chicago is also a viable destination, James and his team will be able to secure the best terms once he is finally ready to make a decision. This primarily relates to outside business deals that LeBron's team has been exploring since his season ended, but could also involve greater leverage over the team operations of whichever club James chooses.

It is difficult to say which is the prevailing purpose among the three, and that answer may vary depending on the opinion of each member of James’ inner circle. But LeBron's team has been savvy about calculating their efforts to make it known that New York is not the only – or even the most likely – destination should James depart Cleveland. These efforts have been implemented by way of frequent discussion from one member of James’ team about the potential of LeBron choosing the Bulls, or by calculated leaks to the media from another member. Much of the latter has taken the form of anonymous information provided to select members of the national media

In addition, one source maintains that LeBron has developed deep trust in the opinions of at least two significant figures – Warren Buffett and Jimmy Iovine – who are officially outside of his now-famous team. The same source claims that one of these two high-profile advisors to James stated, during a business meeting approximately two months ago, that LeBron would sign with the Knicks this summer. It is important to note, however, that this statement was made prior to the Chicago speculation that has dominated ‘The LeBron Watch’ ever since the Cavaliers were eliminated from the playoffs.

Both sources insist that LeBron will make an independent decision about whether he stays in Cleveland or signs elsewhere.

James himself provided clues about his mindset during an interview with Larry King on May 31. James said he will make the final call on which team he signs a contract with this summer, and indicated that discussions with other top free agents could be a key part of the process.

“It will be fun to get all the free agents together and, you know, figure out a way how we can make the league better ... you may be able to pair with a - with a group or one or two guys and - and better that franchise and guys better these franchises,” James told King.

“If you put me and Bosh on the same team, if you put me and Dwayne Wade on the same team, a lot of teams would be much better,” James said.

At present, only the Knicks and Heat will have enough salary cap room to offer two maximum-salary contracts. The Bulls could conceivably acquire Bosh or Wade in a sign-and-trade with the Raptors or Heat respectively, though they would almost certainly be forced to send Joakim Noah in return.

todu82
06-11-2010, 01:03 PM
They would be championship contenders.

RipVW
06-11-2010, 01:22 PM
who know if this is true, but heres the whole article. its basically saying Lebron intends to go to NY this whole time and was only using CHI for leverage and to make it seem less obvious.

According to two sources with knowledge of the thinking within the inner circle of LeBron James, the Chicago Bulls were a late addition to the list of teams he would genuinely consider in order to establish an alternative to the New York Knicks should he decide to leave the Cleveland Cavaliers this summer.

There are three distinct components and motivations behind the strategy:

The first is to quell the loud rumors that James has had strong interest in signing with the Knicks as a free agent, which had been building for almost two years and were perceived to be on the verge of spiraling out of control after the Celtics knocked the Cavaliers out of the playoffs. Indeed, the New York chatter had literally become a chorus when the Boston crowd serenaded James with “New York Knicks” chants moments before the Cavaliers were eliminated in Game 6.

The second is a legitimate concern that although playing in New York would be the most exciting basketball experience for LeBron and hold the greatest business potential, it may also prove to be an exhausting and complicated endeavor. LeBron's confidantes are comfortable in their current roles and are concerned that the New York atmosphere could be overwhelming, perhaps upsetting the balance of power that surrounds James. Should James decide to end his time in Cleveland, Chicago offers a big-market alternative to the Knicks with what some close to James view as less risk than New York, as well as a Midwestern atmosphere that would be more familiar to them.

The third is that James has expressly given his team wide leeway to manage his affairs as they see fit and explore the full range of possibilities ahead of July 1. The thinking is that by making it known that Chicago is also a viable destination, James and his team will be able to secure the best terms once he is finally ready to make a decision. This primarily relates to outside business deals that LeBron's team has been exploring since his season ended, but could also involve greater leverage over the team operations of whichever club James chooses.

It is difficult to say which is the prevailing purpose among the three, and that answer may vary depending on the opinion of each member of James’ inner circle. But LeBron's team has been savvy about calculating their efforts to make it known that New York is not the only – or even the most likely – destination should James depart Cleveland. These efforts have been implemented by way of frequent discussion from one member of James’ team about the potential of LeBron choosing the Bulls, or by calculated leaks to the media from another member. Much of the latter has taken the form of anonymous information provided to select members of the national media

In addition, one source maintains that LeBron has developed deep trust in the opinions of at least two significant figures – Warren Buffett and Jimmy Iovine – who are officially outside of his now-famous team. The same source claims that one of these two high-profile advisors to James stated, during a business meeting approximately two months ago, that LeBron would sign with the Knicks this summer. It is important to note, however, that this statement was made prior to the Chicago speculation that has dominated ‘The LeBron Watch’ ever since the Cavaliers were eliminated from the playoffs.

Both sources insist that LeBron will make an independent decision about whether he stays in Cleveland or signs elsewhere.

James himself provided clues about his mindset during an interview with Larry King on May 31. James said he will make the final call on which team he signs a contract with this summer, and indicated that discussions with other top free agents could be a key part of the process.

“It will be fun to get all the free agents together and, you know, figure out a way how we can make the league better ... you may be able to pair with a - with a group or one or two guys and - and better that franchise and guys better these franchises,” James told King.

“If you put me and Bosh on the same team, if you put me and Dwayne Wade on the same team, a lot of teams would be much better,” James said.

At present, only the Knicks and Heat will have enough salary cap room to offer two maximum-salary contracts. The Bulls could conceivably acquire Bosh or Wade in a sign-and-trade with the Raptors or Heat respectively, though they would almost certainly be forced to send Joakim Noah in return.

This isnt a quote. It sounds like a local (NY) sportswriters words.

nycericanguy
06-11-2010, 01:23 PM
This isnt a quote. It sounds like a local (NY) sportswriters words.

haha dude its an article based on speculation and two unnamed sources, just like everything else, take it as you want. But don't just take one sentence out of it...lol

RipVW
06-11-2010, 01:27 PM
haha dude its an article based on speculation just like everything else, take it as you want. But don't just take one sentence out of it...lol

Some of it could make sense but theres a lot of speculation laced in there. I think the initial point of quelling all the NYK talk could be true. Beyond that, it seems like it could be a big bowl of fill in the blank speculation by the writer.

nycericanguy
06-11-2010, 01:30 PM
Some of it could make sense but theres a lot of speculation laced in there. I think the initial point of quelling all the NYK talk could be true. Beyond that, it seems like it could be a big bowl of fill in the blank speculation by the writer.

who knows... its from two unnamed sources. but i dont think this came from a local NY writer because it doesnt show up in any of the NY papers. it was an ESPN insider article.

EVERYTHING we hear is speculation though, not sure how this is "laced" with speculation anymore than everything else we have heard.

RipVW
06-11-2010, 01:34 PM
who knows... its from two unnamed sources. but i dont think this came from a local NY writer because it doesnt show up in any of the NY papers. it was an ESPN insider article.

EVERYTHING we hear is speculation though, not sure how this is "laced" with speculation anymore than everything else we have heard.

The difference is that this guy gives a list of reasons. Its hard to know if thats his own conjecture or even, sort of, sobbled together.


Its like, "the Bulls were a late add"...OK, without quotes you could make several inferences as to why, one of them being how the Bulls competed against the Cavs in the first round.

nycericanguy
06-11-2010, 01:36 PM
The difference is that this guy gives a list of reasons. Its hard to know if thats his own conjecture or even, sort of, sobbled together.


Its like, "the Bulls were a late add"...OK, without quotes you could make several inferences as to why, one of them being how the Bulls competed against the Cavs in the first round.

the source gives the 3 reasons as facts, not an opinion.

There are three distinct components and motivations behind the strategy:

It doesnt say these are "three possible reasons", or "the thinking might be"...

hugepatsfan
06-11-2010, 01:37 PM
Toronto has no reason to turn down a draft pick. Go check out how S&Ts have been done in the past. Youll see a lot of draft picks being exchanged and 2nd round picks at that.

But in most of those cases, the max player is going to a team with cap space to add him outright. The issue CHI has in a S&T for a max player is that they need to send slary back (assuming they go for a 2nd max). Deng and Hinrich, while both are good players, don't fir in TOR, so I doubt they would be willing to take back those contracts for Bosh.

oak2455
06-11-2010, 01:39 PM
its funny when there is a positive article about the Knicks there are so many wrong things....always....LMAO. Like Ive said before July couldnt come any sooner:clap::clap::clap::clap:

RipVW
06-11-2010, 01:50 PM
But in most of those cases, the max player is going to a team with cap space to add him outright. The issue CHI has in a S&T for a max player is that they need to send slary back (assuming they go for a 2nd max). Deng and Hinrich, while both are good players, don't fir in TOR, so I doubt they would be willing to take back those contracts for Bosh.

No kidding. LOL

hugepatsfan
06-11-2010, 01:54 PM
No kidding. LOL

Well, this thread is about CHI possibly adding two max (or close) players when they have cap space for one. So for them to do that, they will need to make a S&T for the second guy (Bosh is that guy in this instance, with Lebron the first max guy).

hugepatsfan
06-11-2010, 02:00 PM
I think CHI should try to work out a 3 team deal with MIN and LAL where:

MIN gets: SF Luol Deng, CHI's 1st rounder, expirings from LAL
LAL gets: PG Kirk Hinrich
CHI gets: PF Al Jefferson and... AN EXTRA BOOST TO THEIR CAP SPACE

CHI would still be ablt to add Lebron and another guy for around whatever Kirk was making (it would make the most sense to sign a SG because of the rest of the team).

nycericanguy
06-11-2010, 02:04 PM
I think CHI should try to work out a 3 team deal with MIN and LAL where:

MIN gets: SF Luol Deng, CHI's 1st rounder, expirings from LAL
LAL gets: PG Kirk Hinrich
CHI gets: PF Al Jefferson and... AN EXTRA BOOST TO THEIR CAP SPACE

CHI would still be ablt to add Lebron and another guy for around whatever Kirk was making (it would make the most sense to sign a SG because of the rest of the team).

Even if those teams agreed to that, it doesnt work. CHI can't send out $21 something million in contracts and only get Jeff's contract back. Jeff's contract is only 13 million in 2010.

Eagles4Lyfe
06-11-2010, 02:04 PM
Toronto has no reason to turn down a draft pick. Go check out how S&Ts have been done in the past. Youll see a lot of draft picks being exchanged and 2nd round picks at that.

im down for picks i dont mind i never said we should turn down picks i just dont get 98% of your fellow fans thinkin well need to take there deng and hinrich which makes no sense for us

Sadds The Gr8
06-11-2010, 02:14 PM
LOL? Obviously a contender :facepalm:

RipVW
06-11-2010, 02:49 PM
Even if those teams agreed to that, it doesnt work. CHI can't send out $21 something million in contracts and only get Jeff's contract back. Jeff's contract is only 13 million in 2010.

Yeah they can. Both teams are under the cap.

RipVW
06-11-2010, 02:50 PM
Well, this thread is about CHI possibly adding two max (or close) players when they have cap space for one. So for them to do that, they will need to make a S&T for the second guy (Bosh is that guy in this instance, with Lebron the first max guy).

Or they need to straight up make trades prior to July 1.

This is what I was thinking:

Phi: (20.3)
Deng (11.3)
Hinrich (9.0)

Chi: (20.3)
Iguodala (13.7)
Kapono (6.6)

I posted this in the Philly thread. It had some good feedback.

Then:

Toronto could take Iguodala and Kapono.

hugepatsfan
06-11-2010, 04:35 PM
Even if those teams agreed to that, it doesnt work. CHI can't send out $21 something million in contracts and only get Jeff's contract back. Jeff's contract is only 13 million in 2010.

MIN is taking back the cap space. LAL would give up expiring deals that get them Kirk. MIN then takes back those deals with Deng for Al - they have the cap space to do it. Those expirings would really help MIN because no great player will sign there. If they have a lot of expirings, they can make a deal for a guy they want (the player doesn't really have any control in that situation).

hugepatsfan
06-11-2010, 04:45 PM
Or they need to straight up make trades prior to July 1.

This is what I was thinking:

Phi: (20.3)
Deng (11.3)
Hinrich (9.0)

Chi: (20.3)
Iguodala (13.7)
Kapono (6.6)

I posted this in the Philly thread. It had some good feedback.

Then:

Toronto could take Iguodala and Kapono.

Iggy is a SG/SF. TOR already has DeMarr Derozen (a guy they like) and Turk (a guy that makes so much they have to play him). Your first trade with PHI is a great one for both sides. I think Iggy would be fantastic with an up the court PG like Rose. If Lebron won't go, I think you guys would be a very good team if you signed Bosh outright. (Rose, Kapono, Iggy, Bosh, Noah). I just am not sure TOR is willing to take on long term deals for Bosh. But I could be wrong...

jackdawson
06-11-2010, 04:57 PM
stupid thread

What do you expect from bulls fans?

RipVW
06-11-2010, 05:08 PM
Iggy is a SG/SF. TOR already has DeMarr Derozen (a guy they like) and Turk (a guy that makes so much they have to play him). Your first trade with PHI is a great one for both sides. I think Iggy would be fantastic with an up the court PG like Rose. If Lebron won't go, I think you guys would be a very good team if you signed Bosh outright. (Rose, Kapono, Iggy, Bosh, Noah). I just am not sure TOR is willing to take on long term deals for Bosh. But I could be wrong...

I wasnt talking in terms of trading Iguodala and Kapono. More realistically, I can see them dealt to Minnesota, who covets Turner. Acquiring Iguodala would give them punch at the wing position. Either that, or a deal could be done with Memphis, who might lose Gay.

hugepatsfan
06-11-2010, 05:14 PM
I wasnt talking in terms of trading Iguodala and Kapono. More realistically, I can see them dealt to Minnesota, who covets Turner. Acquiring Iguodala would give them punch at the wing position. Either that, or a deal could be done with Memphis, who might lose Gay.

I'm not a Bulls fan, so I have not thought every thing out. I'm sure you have searched every nook and cranny for players to make your team better. I might not know a lot about the Bulls, but I know one thing - they are in great position to become a contender in the East next year. Looking at their roster, I think it might take until the 2nd year for them to win a title though.

central2003
06-11-2010, 05:25 PM
Well I dont know if anyone else has mentioned it because I have not read all the post but maybe if both LBJ and Bosh were willing to to sign one year contracts (a big pay cut) to be in the same team .. regardless of what ever team , in order to win a championship..its possible. I thought that was going to happen when ppl were spreading rumors of a so called FA meeting .

The ChiCago KiD
06-11-2010, 05:34 PM
all right first of all I dont know what tittles are..but im all for them....second..quit calling bulls fans delusional...it makes you look bad...jealous much...IF....lebron leaves hes going to chicago....not the nets...not the heat......and definitly not new york...Im not just saying this cause well..im the chicago kid...but here...who wants to play in new york...they have no core....and why take the money and play on a crappy team....same can be said for the nets.....he might as well just stay....lbj wants to go to a place that he can win NOW....not in two years not in three.....NOW.....can that happen in chicago....yes it can....why..because we have a CORE of players....am I delusional??...noo Im not.....ROSE...NOAH.....HELL...GIBSON.....DENG.... .etc....if anyone is delusional its NY fans...do you really think that anyone is going to take curry off your hands.....I mean really.....really?....Hello out there...Any takers????...i didnt think so....and lets go next to the heat....come on...**** dwayne wade doesnt even want to be there.....except they are going to pay him a s***t to of cash so he can pay off all his court problems....he would do and say anything to get some help there....dont get me wrong they got some good pieces...but its not happening.....wade said the bulls are not loyal....shut up!!! give me a break...the heat are the ones not loyal.. ...read the da** papers....most all you people call yourself fans cause you play nba y2k...give me a break.....and take a seat....

The ChiCago KiD
06-11-2010, 05:45 PM
also I am tired of hearing.....well what i we hear from lebrons inner circle is that......who the hell are these inner circle people...are the a group of unknown wizards and witches that follow him around .....is it the real santa claus....shut up with all this inner circle crap...and give me a break....

Cammy13
06-11-2010, 05:57 PM
I honestly believe Lebron and Dwayne Wade will sign in Cleveland, my oponion...

THE MTL
06-11-2010, 06:06 PM
Lebron and Bosh to the Nets= Championship contenders or middle of pack?

Lebron and Bosh to the Clippers= Championship contenders or middle of pack?

Lebron and Bosh to the Pacers= Championship contenders or middle of pack?

Lebron and Bosh to the Raptors= Championship contenders or middle of pack?

LMFAO!

The ChiCago KiD
06-11-2010, 06:09 PM
wade wont leave miami...he cant....he needs the money they are giving him.....but if it werent for the money I would agree with you.....he makes it sound like he loves miami and that its all about miami.....bulls***t......he OWES....big time....hes not leaving..

hype707
06-11-2010, 06:11 PM
bosh is going where lebron goes

THE MTL
06-11-2010, 06:14 PM
All jokes aside...there are ONLY two teams in the league that can afford two MAX guys and lets leave it that way for the threads. Chicago can only afford one and them trading Deng/Hinrich or whoever aint happening.

JWO35
06-11-2010, 06:14 PM
If Bosh and LeBron both sign with the Washington Generals they would become title contenders...

nycericanguy
06-11-2010, 06:46 PM
All jokes aside...there are ONLY two teams in the league that can afford two MAX guys and lets leave it that way for the threads. Chicago can only afford one and them trading Deng/Hinrich or whoever aint happening.

^ this... NY is in better position to sign THREE max guys than CHI is TWO... its just not happening so these make believe threads are really pointless.

NY would have an easier time attaching Chandler to Eddy Curry's expiring in a S&T thus clearing cap space for a 3rd MAX, then CHI would trying to pawn Deng or Hinrich off on TOR.

But you don't see us making Bosh, Lebron & Joe Johnson = title contender threads, thats just not realistic.

Raoul Duke
06-11-2010, 08:04 PM
^ this... NY is in better position to sign THREE max guys than CHI is TWO...

Dude, I don't think anyone doubts that NY will hand out one or two max contracts this summer.

Dieselpi
06-11-2010, 08:31 PM
I honestly believe Lebron and Dwayne Wade will sign in Cleveland, my oponion...

and to make this happen who would miami take back in a sign and trade?

nycericanguy
06-11-2010, 08:44 PM
Dude, I don't think anyone doubts that NY will hand out one or two max contracts this summer.

i know, that wasnt what i was saying... i was saying this thread doesnt make too much sense because CHI cant sign two max guys.

jackdawson
06-12-2010, 03:40 AM
All jokes aside...there are ONLY two teams in the league that can afford two MAX guys and lets leave it that way for the threads. Chicago can only afford one and them trading Deng/Hinrich or whoever aint happening.

This^^^. Don't count on the cows.

azkarraga
06-12-2010, 04:22 AM
Rose and LBJ could be a nasty tandem. Bosh is just extremely overrated.

JiffyMix88
06-12-2010, 04:25 AM
straight to the superbowl!

JiffyMix88
06-12-2010, 04:27 AM
This^^^. Don't count on the cows.

ok cause its not possible? :rolleyes:

RipVW
06-12-2010, 09:57 AM
All jokes aside...there are ONLY two teams in the league that can afford two MAX guys and lets leave it that way for the threads. Chicago can only afford one and them trading Deng/Hinrich or whoever aint happening.

Whats funny is to see Knicks fans say this and then go on about how theyre going to sign David Lee, who is a free agent, to a contract just to send him to Toronto.

Raidaz4Life
06-12-2010, 10:02 AM
Well considering the Bulls are already middle of the pack... they clearly would not get any better by adding those two players. Sorry Chicago fans.

Dieselpi
06-12-2010, 10:10 AM
Whats funny is to see Knicks fans say this and then go on about how theyre going to sign David Lee, who is a free agent, to a contract just to send him to Toronto.

you are comparing apples to oranges, the knicks would only be doing a sign and trade to allow bosh to get the extra year that toronto can offer him. They dont need to make a trade to get two max players. They can sign two outright.

nycericanguy
06-12-2010, 10:22 AM
you are comparing apples to oranges, the knicks would only be doing a sign and trade to allow bosh to get the extra year that toronto can offer him. They dont need to make a trade to get two max players. They can sign two outright.

^ this, now TOR supposedly loves David Lee, so if Lee were willing to go to TOR it would be great for NY... Why?

Because David Lee's cap hold is 10.5 million, NY could sign Lee to a 6 year 72 million deal starting at around 10-11 million and send him to TOR even if Bosh's contract is 5-6 million more because it works within cap rules of 125%...

so to make a long story short if Lee agreed to go to TOR, NY could sign a max player along with getting Bosh in the S&T, AND still have 5-7 million to spend... this would be the ideal scenario for NY.

And now reports are that NO would make Darren Collison available as long as they took Okafor... NY is not only the only team that can sign two max guys, they are the only team with a big expiring that could bring back Okafor & Collison.

NY would glady send them Curry's expiring along with the young slashing SF New Orleans needs. Curry & Chandler for Collison & Okafor.

NY gets their defensive center, a young stud PG and still can sign 2 max guys.

People that don't follow NY are really sleeping on just how good a position NY is in this offseason. Curry's expiring and Wilson Chandler are two huge assets that can bring along 2 very good players or a 3rd star player.

Okafor
Bosh
Gallo
Lebron\Walker
Douglas\Collison

That is a legitimate title contender, a young all 28 and under, big team with everyone under contract for 3 years or more. Thats a dynasty right there, that team would challenge for the title in year 1.

RipVW
06-12-2010, 10:43 AM
you are comparing apples to oranges, the knicks would only be doing a sign and trade to allow bosh to get the extra year that toronto can offer him. They dont need to make a trade to get two max players. They can sign two outright.

They think trading Deng and Hinrich is impossible but then they think they can assume that Lee would sign with them knowing he's only going to be shipped to Toronto. One of the benefits of being a free agent is being able to choose where you play. Yet the Knicks fans somehow think he's all about going to Toronto.


^ this, now TOR supposedly loves David Lee, so if Lee were willing to go to TOR it would be great for NY... Why?

Because David Lee's cap hold is 10.5 million, NY could sign Lee to a 6 year 72 million deal starting at around 10-11 million and send him to TOR even if Bosh's contract is 5-6 million more because it works within cap rules of 125%...

so to make a long story short if Lee agreed to go to TOR, NY could sign a max player along with getting Bosh in the S&T, AND still have 5-7 million to spend... this would be the ideal scenario for NY.

And now reports are that NO would make Darren Collison available as long as they took Okafor... NY is not only the only team that can sign two max guys, they are the only team with a big expiring that could bring back Okafor & Collison.

NY would glady send them Curry's expiring along with the young slashing SF New Orleans needs. Curry & Chandler for Collison & Okafor.

NY gets their defensive center, a young stud PG and still can sign 2 max guys.

People that don't follow NY are really sleeping on just how good a position NY is in this offseason. Curry's expiring and Wilson Chandler are two huge assets that can bring along 2 very good players or a 3rd star player.

Okafor
Bosh
Gallo
Lebron\Walker
Douglas\Collison

That is a legitimate title contender, a young all 28 and under, big team with everyone under contract for 3 years or more. Thats a dynasty right there, that team would challenge for the title in year 1.

LOL

nycericanguy
06-12-2010, 10:47 AM
They think trading Deng and Hinrich is impossible but then they think they can assume that Lee would sign with them knowing he's only going to be shipped to Toronto. One of the benefits of being a free agent is being able to choose where you play. Yet the Knicks fans somehow think he's all about going to Toronto.



LOL

i think the point was we dont NEED Lee to sign with TOR, obviously it would be nice, but we arent counting on that... LOL @ what? :confused:

Dieselpi
06-12-2010, 12:51 PM
They think trading Deng and Hinrich is impossible but then they think they can assume that Lee would sign with them knowing he's only going to be shipped to Toronto. One of the benefits of being a free agent is being able to choose where you play. Yet the Knicks fans somehow think he's all about going to Toronto.



LOL

in regards to lee, it could happen
it all really comes down to what he is looking to accomplish, if he is looking to grab as much money as possible he may agree to a sign and trade. And honestly living in ny and seeing how last offseason panned out with his agent it looks as if they are trying to maximize his dollars.

But like almost every other free agent, no one at this point knows what anyone is thinking. So a lot can happen.

Dieselpi
06-12-2010, 12:54 PM
^ this, now TOR supposedly loves David Lee, so if Lee were willing to go to TOR it would be great for NY... Why?

Because David Lee's cap hold is 10.5 million, NY could sign Lee to a 6 year 72 million deal starting at around 10-11 million and send him to TOR even if Bosh's contract is 5-6 million more because it works within cap rules of 125%...

so to make a long story short if Lee agreed to go to TOR, NY could sign a max player along with getting Bosh in the S&T, AND still have 5-7 million to spend... this would be the ideal scenario for NY.

And now reports are that NO would make Darren Collison available as long as they took Okafor... NY is not only the only team that can sign two max guys, they are the only team with a big expiring that could bring back Okafor & Collison.

NY would glady send them Curry's expiring along with the young slashing SF New Orleans needs. Curry & Chandler for Collison & Okafor.

NY gets their defensive center, a young stud PG and still can sign 2 max guys.

People that don't follow NY are really sleeping on just how good a position NY is in this offseason. Curry's expiring and Wilson Chandler are two huge assets that can bring along 2 very good players or a 3rd star player.

Okafor
Bosh
Gallo
Lebron\Walker
Douglas\Collison

That is a legitimate title contender, a young all 28 and under, big team with everyone under contract for 3 years or more. Thats a dynasty right there, that team would challenge for the title in year 1.


if they get lebron and bosh i dont think they will be moving curry to get okafor. I see them holding on to currys deal till mid season and then trading him when the team taking him on would be on the hook for very little, and trying to better the team in a playoff push.

dont think they will use all their resources right away, leave some in the tank for later.

nycericanguy
06-12-2010, 02:11 PM
if they get lebron and bosh i dont think they will be moving curry to get okafor. I see them holding on to currys deal till mid season and then trading him when the team taking him on would be on the hook for very little, and trying to better the team in a playoff push.

dont think they will use all their resources right away, leave some in the tank for later.

it really wouldnt matter, if we trade him we are taking contracts back so the team that takes him still has to pay the contract for the whole season anyway. He's an expiring, we would just be taking back a longer contract such as Okafor, does it really matter to NO if we do the trade now or mid season? won't save them any money if they do it mid season.

ANd getting Okafor & Collison would put us in a much better position to get Bosh & Lebron to sign.

Dieselpi
06-12-2010, 02:27 PM
it really wouldnt matter, if we trade him we are taking contracts back so the team that takes him still has to pay the contract for the whole season anyway. He's an expiring, we would just be taking back a longer contract such as Okafor, does it really matter to NO if we do the trade now or mid season? won't save them any money if they do it mid season.

ANd getting Okafor & Collison would put us in a much better position to get Bosh & Lebron to sign.

let me clarify....
i wouldnt trade curry in a move like that
if you trade curry in season the team that takes him on doesnt cover the whole season, they just cover the time he is with them. So if the knicks trade him hypothetically to denver to get melo at the trade deadline, denver is only on the hook for a few months worth of salary, and gets the full benefit at the end of the season of dumping the full value of the contract off of the cap.

and i certainly wouldnt move curry to get okafor and collison in the hopes of using that to lure lebron and bosh. Because if you dont manage to get lebron or bosh and walk away from the offseason with okafors mess of a contract, the media in ny would eat donnie alive.

nycericanguy
06-12-2010, 02:33 PM
let me clarify....
i wouldnt trade curry in a move like that
if you trade curry in season the team that takes him on doesnt cover the whole season, they just cover the time he is with them. So if the knicks trade him hypothetically to denver to get melo at the trade deadline, denver is only on the hook for a few months worth of salary, and gets the full benefit at the end of the season of dumping the full value of the contract off of the cap.

and i certainly wouldnt move curry to get okafor and collison in the hopes of using that to lure lebron and bosh. Because if you dont manage to get lebron or bosh and walk away from the offseason with okafors mess of a contract, the media in ny would eat donnie alive.

are you kidding, I would make that collison/Okafor trade regardless of whether Bosh or Lebron come. It would give us a center AND pg that we need and still enough cap space to make other trades or sign 2 max guys. the media would praise Donnie for killing two birds with one stone and getting a young stud PG. Yea Okafor's contract is bad, but he's still a good defensive center that we need and he doesnt stop us from getting 2 max guys

but i think you're missing the point about a team saving money, look at this way, lets say we traded Curry for Okafor straight up, they both make approx 11 million.

if we do it at the deadline halfway through the season, NO would have already paid Okafor 5.5 million, they would then need to pay Curry an additional 5.5 million. so either way they will be paying $11 million TOTAL for the season. they won't save any money in 2010, the savings would come when Curry expires at the end of the season.

Dieselpi
06-12-2010, 02:36 PM
are you kidding, I would make that collison/Okafor trade regardless of whether Bosh or Lebron come. It would give us a center AND pg that we need and still enough cap space to make other trades or sign 2 max guys.

but i think you're missing the point about a team saving money, look at this way, lets say we traded Curry for Okafor straight up, they both make approx 11 million.

if we do it at the deadline halfway through the season, NO would have already paid Okafor 5.5 million, they would then need to pay Curry an additional 5.5 million. so either way they will be paying $11 million TOTAL for the season. they won't save any money in 2010, the savings would come when Curry expires at the end of the season.

and what else would you fill the team with?
joe johnson? amare?

nycericanguy
06-12-2010, 02:38 PM
and what else would you fill the team with?
joe johnson? amare?

depends on who wants to sign of course, but a core of Collison, TD, Gallo, Walker, & Okafor is a hell of a young core.

JJ would be a nice fit, so would Lee even or Boozer.

Okafor
Boozer
Gallo
JJ
Collison\TD

Thats a top 3 seed and a title contender

Dieselpi
06-12-2010, 02:42 PM
the ny media would have a field day with the headlines if that was the team. Not saying its good or bad, just after all the hype that the media created would instantly be turned in the other direction.

But such is the media market of ny.

nycericanguy
06-12-2010, 02:49 PM
the ny media would have a field day with the headlines if that was the team. Not saying its good or bad, just after all the hype that the media created would instantly be turned in the other direction.

But such is the media market of ny.

i don't think so, thats a team with 4 really really good players added. we are all hoping for Lebron, but thats a hell of a consolation prize there. that team would compete with Lebron's Cavs, and that team is all 28 years and younger, they would be around for a long time.

bkmikeyy
06-12-2010, 03:07 PM
depends on who wants to sign of course, but a core of Collison, TD, Gallo, Walker, & Okafor is a hell of a young core.

JJ would be a nice fit, so would Lee even or Boozer.

Okafor
Boozer
Gallo
JJ
Collison\TD

Thats a top 3 seed and a title contender

I don't want Boozer and I think Amare would come if offered a max. I would be more than happy with:

Okafor/Kurt Thomas
Amare/Varnado
Gallo/Raja Bell
JJ/Walker/Stephenson
Collison/TD

That's a top 3 team in the East, possibly better if Gallo or Collison show improvement.
I know many people don't think Lebron is coming but this is a very realistic scenario and isn't a bad consolation prize. This would be a competitive playoff team for many years and would contend for a title.
Meanwhile there is still that best case scenario out there where the Knicks get Lebron and Bosh instead of Amare and JJ and suddenly become a dynasty for the next decade.
So I don;t understand how people can say the Knicks are in a bad position...they will most likely be a solid playoff team in the near future OR if they get lucky a dynasty for the next decade, not a bad position to be in.

netsgiantsyanks
06-12-2010, 03:32 PM
irrevelant its not going to happen

hugepatsfan
06-12-2010, 03:54 PM
Knicks should forget Lebron - I'm convinced he's going to CHI. They should definately trade Curry to NO for Okafor. I think he would be a great fit in NY. I really think they could get JJ and Bosh to sign in NY. If they expanded the NO deal to include Wilson Chandler and Darren Collison:

Collison/Tony Douglas
JJ/Bill Walker
Galinari/Bill Walker
Bosh
Okafor

If I'm not mistaken, they would still be able to use Lee's bird rights to sign him. That would give them a great 8-man rotation if he was there to back up the 4 and the 5.

BAMF
06-12-2010, 08:32 PM
LeBron to CHI is a lock, Book it cause espn said so.

oak2455
06-13-2010, 12:18 AM
Lebron to the Knicks cant wait.. July 1st cant get here soon enough:) BTW wonder who going to follow the King:confused:

bkmikeyy
06-13-2010, 01:50 AM
People that keep saying Knicks are not deep enough to be competitive after signing Bosh and Lebron don't seem to realize that in order for the Bulls to get both FAs they would have to give up a very large portion of their "core". A trade for Bosh would at least have to involve Taj and probably Johnson to go along with them somehow getting the Raptors to take the bad contract of either Deng or Hinrich. Maybe even Noah would have to be included in a deal as well. So essentially if they do trade for Bosh and sign Lebron they will be left with only 3 or 4 players on their roster and about 4-5 million left in cap space.

The Bulls also lack flexibility moving forawrd because they will be maxed out on their cap, with no expiring contracts. The Knicks have a huge expiring contract worth 11.3 million dollars which can either be used as a trade for solid veteran players that would make them deeper than the Bulls, or be allowed to expire to make them players again next summer when there are plenty of good free agents as well. Chicago roster will not change for the next few years, biggest addition they can make next summer is the MLE.

People who promote Lebron staying in Cleveland don't realize how old this team is getting and how awful their flexibility is. Varejao has 4 years 32 million left on his contract, Jamison 2 years 29 million (he turned 34 today btw), Gibson 17 mill for 3 years, Mo 3 years 26 million...these are all bad and tough to move contracts, their only young prospect under 25 is Hickson and he isn't even good. If Lebron stays that team will slowly sink for the next couple of years. They will still finish in the top 5-6 in the league and not get any decent picks while always being short of the title. I'm sure the Knicks can put together a better group of players than Moon, Gibson, Parker, Telfair, West and Powe to come off the bench. Had Lebron never been a Cav these guys would probably never be talked about and be signing to vet mins.

RipVW
06-13-2010, 01:56 AM
People that keep saying Knicks are not deep enough to be competitive after signing Bosh and Lebron don't seem to realize that in order for the Bulls to get both FAs they would have to give up a very large portion of their "core". A trade for Bosh would at least have to involve Taj and probably Johnson to go along with them somehow getting the Raptors to take the bad contract of either Deng or Hinrich. Maybe even Noah would have to be included in a deal as well. So essentially if they do trade for Bosh and sign Lebron they will be left with only 3 or 4 players on their roster and about 4-5 million left in cap space.

The Bulls also lack flexibility moving forawrd because they will be maxed out on their cap, with no expiring contracts. The Knicks have a huge expiring contract worth 11.3 million dollars which can either be used as a trade for solid veteran players that would make them deeper than the Bulls, or be allowed to expire to make them players again next summer when there are plenty of good free agents as well.

Its going to go down like this:

Toronto- Al Jefferson
Minnesota- Luol Deng
Chicago- Chris Bosh

Voila!

ChiSox219
06-13-2010, 01:59 AM
People that keep saying Knicks are not deep enough to be competitive after signing Bosh and Lebron don't seem to realize that in order for the Bulls to get both FAs they would have to give up a very large portion of their "core". A trade for Bosh would at least have to involve Taj and probably Johnson to go along with them somehow getting the Raptors to take the bad contract of either Deng or Hinrich. Maybe even Noah would have to be included in a deal as well. So essentially if they do trade for Bosh and sign Lebron they will be left with only 3 or 4 players on their roster and about 4-5 million left in cap space.

The Bulls also lack flexibility moving forawrd because they will be maxed out on their cap, with no expiring contracts. The Knicks have a huge expiring contract worth 11.3 million dollars which can either be used as a trade for solid veteran players that would make them deeper than the Bulls, or be allowed to expire to make them players again next summer when there are plenty of good free agents as well.

If you honestly believe Deng is a bad contract, you do not have proper knowledge of league economics.

That said, Lebron for Deng makes sense and then sign Bosh. Or sign Lebron send Deng to Minny, Jefferson to TO, and Bosh to Chicago.

bkmikeyy
06-13-2010, 02:07 AM
Its going to go down like this:

Toronto- Al Jefferson
Minnesota- Luol Deng
Chicago- Chris Bosh

Voila!

yea? Tell that to Minnesota...
Jefferson averaged 17 and 9 during a year he was injured. Last year he averaged 23 and 11. Plus his contract is shorter than Deng's so its not like you are helping them financially while taking the better player. I just don't see it the Bulls would have to give up more I feel.

bkmikeyy
06-13-2010, 02:11 AM
If you honestly believe Deng is a bad contract, you do not have proper knowledge of league economics.

That said, Lebron for Deng makes sense and then sign Bosh. Or sign Lebron send Deng to Minny, Jefferson to TO, and Bosh to Chicago.

YOU HAVE TO BE KIDDING ME!?

Deng is set to make 13 million a year for the next four years, he is possibly not even top 10 at his position. :facepalm::facepalm::facepalm:

I DON'T KNOW LEAGUE ECONOMICS AND YOU WANT TO TRADE DENG FOR LEBRON!!!!!!

Might as well trade Chris Richard for Lebron.

sean17c
06-13-2010, 02:13 AM
yea? Tell that to Minnesota...
Jefferson averaged 17 and 9 during a year he was injured. Last year he averaged 23 and 11. Plus his contract is shorter than Deng's so its not like you are helping them financially while taking the better player. I just don't see it the Bulls would have to give up more I feel.

minn has kevin love and are trying to get rid of al

we might throw in a pick, thats it

RipVW
06-13-2010, 02:15 AM
yea? Tell that to Minnesota...
Jefferson averaged 17 and 9 during a year he was injured. Last year he averaged 23 and 11. Plus his contract is shorter than Deng's so its not like you are helping them financially while taking the better player. I just don't see it the Bulls would have to give up more I feel.

Minnesota is trying to make room for Love. I know that sounds like some off the wall TV show...but Minnesota is really trying to make room for Love. There. I said it twice.

But really, its true. Minnesota needs a wing player. And in the case of Deng's contract, if youre Minnesota, the length of the contract might be good. Minnesota isnt a big destination for FAs normally.

Ive already discussed this in the Minnesota forum and a lot of them are open to acquiring Deng. Some of them even propose giving us a draft pick for him. Helping them get rid of a salary theyre trying to unload, only sweetens the deal so much more.

bkmikeyy
06-13-2010, 02:17 AM
minn has kevin love and are trying to get rid of al

we might throw in a pick, thats it

They can do A LOT better, just because a team wants to trade someone doesn't mean they have to trade with your favorite team for someone clearly of less value.

RipVW
06-13-2010, 02:22 AM
They can do A LOT better, just because a team wants to trade someone doesn't mean they have to trade with your favorite team for someone clearly of less value.

They address a need and increase their cap room.

sean17c
06-13-2010, 02:29 AM
They can do A LOT better, just because a team wants to trade someone doesn't mean they have to trade with your favorite team for someone clearly of less value.

and how is deng less value?

they are about the same

always hurt

and under produce. put up about 18 and 8. deng with a steal and solid defense

bkmikeyy
06-13-2010, 02:31 AM
They address a need and increase their cap room.

They are under the cap by a lot regardless and would only save a couple of million. Its a real big reach, meanwhile Knicks don't need that to get Bosh and Lebron. If you want to reach a little then I will too... Knicks get Collison and Okafor for Chandler and Curry. Giving them...

Collison/TD
Walker/ Tmac(vet min)/Crawford(2nd)
Lebron/Gallo
Bosh/Varnado (2nd)
Okafor/Kurt Thomas (vet min)


Is that a Championship contender?!

The Bulls with a slight reach as well (Deng and 1st gets them Bosh some way)...

Rose
Hinrich
Lebron
Bosh/Taj/Johnson
Noah

That's still 7 players adding up to a 53 million payroll....so the other 5 players come from 3 mill in cap space and vet min, maybe buy second rounders....not sure how the Bulls are the crazy ideal situation for a deep team.

bkmikeyy
06-13-2010, 02:33 AM
and how is deng less value?

they are about the same

always hurt

and under produce. put up about 18 and 8. deng with a steal and solid defense

Do some research this year Jefferson was hurt (still better numbers than Deng), check his previous years. 23 and 11 and 21 and 11 the two years before this one.

ChiSox219
06-13-2010, 02:34 AM
YOU HAVE TO BE KIDDING ME!?

Deng is set to make 13 million a year for the next four years, he is possibly not even top 10 at his position. :facepalm::facepalm::facepalm:

I DON'T KNOW LEAGUE ECONOMICS AND YOU WANT TO TRADE DENG FOR LEBRON!!!!!!

Might as well trade Chris Richard for Lebron.

SFs significantly better than Deng are: Lebron, Carmelo, Durant, Pierce, and Granger. You could add Gerald Wallace to that list as well, and I think Batum will be there sooner rather than later. Of those players, only Durant and Batum make significantly less than Deng and they are both on rookie deals. Wallace makes a similar salary and is a very good player, great contract for the Bobcats.


Luol Deng
2010 PER:16.67
4 Year RAPM: 2.781
Salary: $10,365,000

Tayshaun Prince
PER: 15.39
RAPM: 0.909
Salary: $10,324,380

Rudy Gay
PER: 16.52
RAPM: -1.022 (2010 RAPM: 0.827)
Salary: Rookie Contract (2011 estimate: $8-12m)

Corey Maggette
PER: 20.93
RAPM: -0.098
Salary: $9,288,000

Gerald Wallace:
PER: 18.67
RAPM: 0.741
Salary: $9,500,000

Paul Pierce
PER: 18.24
RAPM: 2.929
Salary: $19,795,712


There's a mix of SF's, some better, some worse, and some about equal.

Tayshaun Prince is somewhat comparable but his best production came when he was surround by all-star talent. His defense and hustle are at least comparable to Deng's but his offense and rebounding lag behind Deng.

Gay is maturing and his salary next year will jump into the 8 figure range. His offense is solid but doesn't quite have the defense and IQ Deng has.

Maggette's PER is very high largely because of the offensive system he plays in, but his style of play does not equate to team success because he's often a black hole on offense and apathetic on defense. I would consider him inferior to Deng and his salary reflects that.

Crash is a monster and he does a lot of things well. He's a more intense version of Deng. His salary is a bargain the way he's produced under Brown and with Jackson. His four year RAPM is lower than Deng's but is almost identical this season (1.893 to Deng's 1.850)

Paul Pierce= great all around player and the numbers reflect that, so does his salary.

If Lebron goes wants to go to Chicago, Cleveland won't have leverage and certainly won't get equal value. Getting a replacement that can't play well on both ends of the floor and is just entering his prime is a great net for the Cavs, better than most any team gets in a S&T like this.

Personally, I wouldn't trade Deng straight up for Jefferson who is an inefficient black hole.

bkmikeyy
06-13-2010, 02:35 AM
Both teams are a possibility it just annoys me when people say the Bulls are stacked for Lebron and the Knicks have nothing. That is absolutely not true, the Bulls will be left filling out their bench with vet mins as well. While Gallo will greatly benefit from playing alongside playmakers, fact is Rose's production will dip a bit because he wont be the center of the offense anymore and he is not the best off the ball player.

RipVW
06-13-2010, 02:36 AM
They are under the cap by a lot regardless and would only save a couple of million. Its a real big reach, meanwhile Knicks don't need that to get Bosh and Lebron. If you want to reach a little then I will too... Knicks get Collison and Okafor for Chandler and Curry. Giving them...

Collison/TD
Walker/ Tmac(vet min)/Crawford(2nd)
Lebron/Gallo
Bosh/Varnado (2nd)
Okafor/Kurt Thomas (vet min)


Is that a Championship contender?!

The Bulls with a slight reach as well (Deng and 1st gets them Bosh some way)...

Rose
Hinrich
Lebron
Bosh/Taj/Johnson
Noah

That's still 7 players adding up to a 53 million payroll....so the other 5 players come from 3 mill in cap space and vet min, maybe buy second rounders....not sure how the Bulls are the crazy ideal situation for a deep team.

More knick fan posturing. You gotta love it. This is a reach but Lee going to Toronto is a lead pipe lock? LOL

ChiSox219
06-13-2010, 02:36 AM
Do some research this year Jefferson was hurt (still better numbers than Deng), check his previous years. 23 and 11 and 21 and 11 the two years before this one.

It really isn't that difficult to score 23.1 points per game when you average 19.5 shots.

Do some research and you'll notice that Jefferson turns the ball over more often than he sets up a teammate.

bkmikeyy
06-13-2010, 02:37 AM
SFs significantly better than Deng are: Lebron, Carmelo, Durant, Pierce, and Granger. You could add Gerald Wallace to that list as well, and I think Batum will be there sooner rather than later. Of those players, only Durant and Batum make significantly less than Deng and they are both on rookie deals. Wallace makes a similar salary and is a very good player, great contract for the Bobcats.



If Lebron goes wants to go to Chicago, Cleveland won't have leverage and certainly won't get equal value. Getting a replacement that can't play well on both ends of the floor and is just entering his prime is a great net for the Cavs, better than most any team gets in a S&T like this.

Personally, I wouldn't trade Deng straight up for Jefferson who is an inefficient black hole.

I refuse to argue with you anymore, because you are an idiot if you think a Deng for Lebron trade is possible and I am clearly wasting my time typing to you.

bkmikeyy
06-13-2010, 02:40 AM
It really isn't that difficult to score 23.1 points per game when you average 19.5 shots.

Do some research and you'll notice that Jefferson turns the ball over more often than he sets up a teammate.

Deng shot 14.5 times for 17.6 points.They both average about 1.2 points per shot. Except Jefferson averages 4 more rebounds per game, same turnovers as Deng btw meanwhile the offense actually runs through hima lot more. Therefore per touch he averages less turnovers than Deng. If you want to bring Hollingers stupid stats in then I can use that too Dengs best year was 18.7 PER while Jeffersons best year was 23.2...DO SOME RESEARCH.
He is actually a shot blocker as well. You are so biased its crazy. When it comes to Noah you guys gush over how he has size and shot blocking ability, but refuse to see that when you want to put down some other team's player, he is a better post presence than Noah.

ChiSox219
06-13-2010, 02:42 AM
Both teams are a possibility it just annoys me when people say the Bulls are stacked for Lebron and the Knicks have nothing. That is absolutely not true, the Bulls will be left filling out their bench with vet mins as well. While Gallo will greatly benefit from playing alongside playmakers, fact is Rose's production will dip a bit because he wont be the center of the offense anymore and he is not the best off the ball player.

Bulls would have:

Rose
Lebron
Deng
Taj
Noah

Hinrich
1st round draft

Plus:
James Johnson
Omer Asik

That's already a nice 9 man rotation. Galinari is nice but after that the Knicks have no players that are ready to contribute to contending teams, unless they keep Lee but that kills the second big FA.

bkmikeyy
06-13-2010, 02:46 AM
Bulls would have:

Rose
Lebron
Deng
Taj
Noah

Hinrich
1st round draft

Plus:
James Johnson
Omer Asik

That's already a nice 9 man rotation. Galinari is nice but after that the Knicks have no players that are ready to contribute to contending teams, unless they keep Lee but that kills the second big FA.

Knicks can sign Bosh AND Lebron straight up....
Bosh (better #2 for Lebron than Rose), Lebron, Gallo (perfect sidekick for Lebron and Bosh, a shooter which the Bulls don't have, Lebron needs a player like that), Chandler (younger version of Deng), TD (Perfect PG for Lebron, defender with a jumpshot) Walker, 2 early 2nd rounders (this draft is very deep 20-40 are very similar), and a 11.3 million dollar expiring contract is no worse than what you just listed.

Fact is every team looks great with both of those players, except Chicago is no NYC, so i don't see how you can give Chicago the edge unless you just enjoy putting NY down (most non NYers do, jealousy?).

ChiSox219
06-13-2010, 02:56 AM
I refuse to argue with you anymore, because you are an idiot if you think a Deng for Lebron trade is possible and I am clearly wasting my time typing to you.

I am an idiot and so is the GM that said the same thing and so is Chad Ford:

http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/15881/lebron-to-the-bulls-3-gms-think-so

:rolleyes:



Deng shot 14.5 times for 17.6 points.They both average about 1.2 points per shot. Except Jefferson averages 4 more rebounds per game, same turnovers as Deng btw meanwhile the offense actually runs through hima lot more. Therefore per touch he averages less turnovers than Deng. If you want to bring Hollingers stupid stats in then I can use that too Dengs best year was 18.7 PER while Jeffersons best year was 23.2...DO SOME RESEARCH.
He is actually a shot blocker as well. You are so biased its crazy.

Deng's TS%: .531

Jefferson's TS%: .524

So, Deng was the more efficient scorer last year, even though it should be the opposite as traditionally good PFs should be more efficient than a good perimeter player.

True, Jefferson averages fewer turns over per touch, AS HE SHOULD. Deng was the #2 on a playoff team and besides Rose, he was the only player to regularly penetrate defenses. Turnovers are inevitable when you have to create instead of getting an entry pass.

Not sure why you are bringing Hollinger into this but PER does not factor in defense. On that end, Jefferson is terrible, while Deng is great, but I don't expect you to understand the value of defense. PER also increases with every FGA as long as a player shoots 30.4%. It's a very simple statistic good only for quick overview of a players stat line.

Deng had one of the best APM's in the NBA this season because his game is well rounded and he is productive on both ends of the floor. Jefferson had one of the worst APMs (305th out of 332) because of his inefficient offense and horrible defense.

ChiSox219
06-13-2010, 02:57 AM
Knicks can sign Bosh AND Lebron straight up....
Bosh (better #2 for Lebron than Rose), Lebron, Gallo (perfect sidekick for Lebron and Bosh, a shooter which the Bulls don't have, Lebron needs a player like that), Chandler (younger version of Deng), TD (Perfect PG for Lebron, defender with a jumpshot) Walker, 2 early 2nd rounders (this draft is very deep 20-40 are very similar), and a 11.3 million dollar expiring contract is no worse than what you just listed.

Fact is every team looks great with both of those players, except Chicago is no NYC, so i don't see how you can give Chicago the edge unless you just enjoy putting NY down.

The Knicks are in a worse position than the 2000 Bulls, you may want to look up what happened that year.

iFYouSeekAmy
06-13-2010, 02:59 AM
Maggette's PER is very high largely because of the offensive system he plays in, but his style of play does not equate to team success because he's often a black hole on offense and apathetic on defense. I would consider him inferior to Deng and his salary reflects that.


The rest is true, but I'm not so sure if his PER reflects upon the offense. He pretty much slows it down IMO, taking it 1-on-1, pretty much all jump shots and driving in. I mean, him shooting 51% along with 20ppg under 30mpg is impressive, but it doesn't help the Warriors win games, which is why all of us want him out. -Unfortunately, I don't think any team would want his awful contract..

BlkProphet79
06-13-2010, 02:59 AM
More knick fan posturing. You gotta love it. This is a reach but Lee going to Toronto is a lead pipe lock? LOL

Posturing? The man prefaced his idea by saying that scenario is a reach. I don't see where you're going with that based on what he said.

As far as Lee going to Toronto in a S&T...not many people are assuming it's a lock to happen...it's simply a best case scenario, you know, the same as the Bulls trading Deng and Hinrich in a sign and trade for Bosh. While I think the more likely of both scenarios is between NY and Toronto, neither is a foregone conclusion.

Oh, and since you seem to have forgotten, even if Lee doesn't accept a sign and trade to Toronto for Bosh, the Knicks can still sign him outright, and still pursue a scenario with New Orleans as outlined above. Whatever Lee decides doesn't really affect what the front office does if Bosh is receptive to going to New York. Realistically, will it happen...probably not...but stranger things have happened...

Just wait and see. Both teams have positives and negatives. You can't look at this with Rose (no-pun intended) glasses.

ChiSox219
06-13-2010, 03:02 AM
The rest is true, but I'm not so sure if his PER reflects upon the offense. He pretty much slows it down IMO, taking it 1-on-1, pretty much all jump shots and driving in. I mean, him shooting 51% along with 20ppg under 30mpg is impressive, but it doesn't help the Warriors win games, which is why all of us want him out. -Unfortunately, I don't think any team would want his awful contract..

I agree that Maggette slows things down but I still think playing in GS with extra possessions and lots of three point threats is the perfect situation for him to put up big numbers. His efficiently certainly is effective, I just doubt he could reproduce similar numbers elsewhere in the league, especially with a winning team.

RipVW
06-13-2010, 03:05 AM
Posturing? The man prefaced his idea by saying that scenario is a reach. I don't see where you're going with that based on what he said.

As far as Lee going to Toronto in a S&T...not many people are assuming it's a lock to happen...it's simply a best case scenario, you know, the same as the Bulls trading Deng and Hinrich in a sign and trade for Bosh. While I think the more likely of both scenarios is between NY and Toronto, neither is a foregone conclusion.

Oh, and since you seem to have forgotten, even if Lee doesn't accept a sign and trade to Toronto for Bosh, the Knicks can still sign him outright, and still pursue a scenario with New Orleans as outlined above. Whatever Lee decides doesn't really affect what the front office does if Bosh is receptive to going to New York. Realistically, will it happen...probably not...but stranger things have happened...

Just wait and see. Both teams have positives and negatives. You can't look at this with Rose (no-pun intended) glasses.

Nonsense. The Knicks fans have routinely acted like Lee going to Toronto through a sign and trade is easy. The scenario I outlined is more viable because it involves players who are already under contract. So, theres less uncertainty where that is concerned. Im kind of surprised I needed to explain that. Wow.

bkmikeyy
06-13-2010, 03:06 AM
The rest is true, but I'm not so sure if his PER reflects upon the offense. He pretty much slows it down IMO, taking it 1-on-1, pretty much all jump shots and driving in. I mean, him shooting 51% along with 20ppg under 30mpg is impressive, but it doesn't help the Warriors win games, which is why all of us want him out. -Unfortunately, I don't think any team would want his awful contract..

But...but...but...its shorter and cheaper than Deng's meaning according to Bulls fans you have no idea what a bad contract is and don't understand basketball economics.

ChiSox219
06-13-2010, 03:09 AM
But...but...but...its shorter and cheaper than Deng's meaning according to Bulls fans you have no idea what a bad contract is and don't understand basketball economics.

Child, please.

bkmikeyy
06-13-2010, 03:12 AM
Nonsense. The Knicks fans have routinely acted like Lee going to Toronto through a sign and trade is easy. The scenario I outlined is more viable because it involves players who are already under contract. So, theres less uncertainty where that is concerned. Im kind of surprised I needed to explain that. Wow.

THE KNICKS DON'T NEED TO SEND LEE..... it's only if Toronto wants him we can do both Bosh and the Raptors a favor. If they don't it does not change the team at all, you seem to miss that...If it comes down to a sign and trade competition knicks have an ace in the hole that makes the Deng offer look silly. If need be (remember key point: Knicks don't have to trade anything, Bulls fans forget this part) they can add Curry to the mix (possibly with Lee) and take a bad contract of either Calderon or Turk, allowing the Raptors to fully rebuild. Bulls can do no such thing... the Raptors will obviously get worse and would prefer to save money for later and tank for a pick, not commit 52 million to a player who wont lead them to the playoffs anyways.

SO:
Knicks either sign Bosh...WITHOUT giving anything up.

If sign and trade is demanded...
Lee > Deng

If Bulls add picks, young players etc....
Knicks add Curry and take a bad contract (might not even need Lee by that point) and
Curry for Bosh, Calderon and Weems
or Curry and Lee ...if they want him see he doesn't have to be included =) for Bosh, Calderon, Weems
Allows Raptors to rebuild, Knicks get some depth along with Bosh.

regardless which way it goes (straight signing or sign and trade)...Knicks are in the better position

iFYouSeekAmy
06-13-2010, 03:12 AM
I agree that Maggette slows things down but I still think playing in GS with extra possessions and lots of three point threats is the perfect situation for him to put up big numbers. His efficiently certainly is effective, I just doubt he could reproduce similar numbers elsewhere in the league, especially with a winning team.

Yeah, true. But he hasn't really been on a winning team throughout his career. He would be a great 6th man, for the fact that he has the ability to score easily. Though.. he's known for being injury prone.. and he milks injuries from time to time. :facepalm:

BlkProphet79
06-13-2010, 03:51 AM
Nonsense. The Knicks fans have routinely acted like Lee going to Toronto through a sign and trade is easy. The scenario I outlined is more viable because it involves players who are already under contract. So, theres less uncertainty where that is concerned. Im kind of surprised I needed to explain that. Wow.



Alright, you can harp on this point all you want. But to get Bosh and Lebron together, which is what most of the fuss is over, the Knicks don't need to sign and trade Lee to Toronto. I don't think that can be stated any more clearly.

Most of the proposals I see from Bulls fans is that Deng + Hinrich for Bosh is more appealing to Toronto than Lee for Bosh in a sign and trade. Knick fans counter with Turkoglu and Calderon already being under contract with Toronto, makes it unlikely they take that in a deal. David Lee, plays power forward, was an all-star (although, even as Knicks fan, I thought he didn't fully deserve it) and would be a very good consolation prize if Bosh leaves. From a contractual standpoint, it makes sense but it also depends on whether Toronto is going into 100% rebuilding mode...where draft picks would the best medium of exchange.

I understand what you're saying that it seems more viable because the players are under contract...and correct me if I'm wrong...technically, the Raptors hold Chris Bosh's Bird rights, the same way New York has David Lee's. To me the difference in trading away assets, that technically (according to the Bird rights) still belong to you is moot because both New York and Toronto both have players they can claim under "Bird Rights."

What you proposed with Al Jefferson, Deng, and Bosh still has the same flaws that a you claim a sign and trade with David Lee does. Yes, Big Al and Deng are under contract, but just as with the David Lee deal, Bosh (the common denominator) is not "under contract." For either deal to work, there will always be a player (in this case Bosh), who "technically" isn't under contract but whose "Bird Rights" belong to their respective teams. I don't really see how your scenario makes it more viable. At best, they amount to the same thing.

hugepatsfan
06-13-2010, 01:19 PM
Minnesota is trying to make room for Love. I know that sounds like some off the wall TV show...but Minnesota is really trying to make room for Love. There. I said it twice.

But really, its true. Minnesota needs a wing player. And in the case of Deng's contract, if youre Minnesota, the length of the contract might be good. Minnesota isnt a big destination for FAs normally.

Ive already discussed this in the Minnesota forum and a lot of them are open to acquiring Deng. Some of them even propose giving us a draft pick for him. Helping them get rid of a salary theyre trying to unload, only sweetens the deal so much more.

I think that might make more sense than them doing a Deng for Al swap. The deal you guys some picks and a few young guys for Deng. That would give CHI soem depth AND some more cap space to sign a 2nd max FA. (MIN can take on Deng's whole salary w/out giving any back if need be). Al isn't perfect, but he had back to back 20-10 season at under 25 years of age. I think they could get a better package for him than what CHI has to offer (no offense).

RipVW
06-13-2010, 01:26 PM
I think that might make more sense than them doing a Deng for Al swap. The deal you guys some picks and a few young guys for Deng. That would give CHI soem depth AND some more cap space to sign a 2nd max FA. (MIN can take on Deng's whole salary w/out giving any back if need be). Al isn't perfect, but he had back to back 20-10 season at under 25 years of age. I think they could get a better package for him than what CHI has to offer (no offense).

Either way. Im pretty sure Toronto would take either Al or a draft pick. Almost never does a team have a reason to turn down a draft pick.

Dieselpi
06-13-2010, 01:29 PM
Knicks should forget Lebron - I'm convinced he's going to CHI. They should definately trade Curry to NO for Okafor. I think he would be a great fit in NY. I really think they could get JJ and Bosh to sign in NY. If they expanded the NO deal to include Wilson Chandler and Darren Collison:

Collison/Tony Douglas
JJ/Bill Walker
Galinari/Bill Walker
Bosh
Okafor

If I'm not mistaken, they would still be able to use Lee's bird rights to sign him. That would give them a great 8-man rotation if he was there to back up the 4 and the 5.

im pretty sure they renounced his bird rights in order to be able to have enough space for 2 max guys.

and if that is the team they trot out, after using currys expiring, all their cap space and trading chandler. If they dont sniff the playoffs, donnie walsh and mike d will be out of a job.

Dieselpi
06-13-2010, 01:29 PM
and a three team deal? do you know how hard it is to make those work? to get to a point where all three teams get what they want?

hugepatsfan
06-13-2010, 01:34 PM
Either way. Im pretty sure Toronto would take either Al or a draft pick. Almost never does a team have a reason to turn down a draft pick.

TOR will definately take a draft pick. The problem CHI has is that if they sign LBJ first, they will need to send back a long term contract to match salaries - either Hinrich or Deng (maybe both). TOR already has big deals at PG and SF they want out of, so I don't see them taking either. Besides, wouldn't it make more sense for them to go into total rebuild mode than to take back players that won't push them to title contender.

I think CHI needs to deal Deng to a team like MIN that can take him on without sending big salary back. Then they need to send Hinrich to a team for expiring deals. If they offer a pick and expiring contracts, I can see TOR biting. But if it's a pick and long term contracts, I don't think it makes sense for TOR.

hugepatsfan
06-13-2010, 01:35 PM
im pretty sure they renounced his bird rights in order to be able to have enough space for 2 max guys.

and if that is the team they trot out, after using currys expiring, all their cap space and trading chandler. If they dont sniff the playoffs, donnie walsh and mike d will be out of a job.

even if they don't get Lee back, that would still be a solid team. Definately a contender in the East.

BlkProphet79
06-13-2010, 02:41 PM
and a three team deal? do you know how hard it is to make those work? to get to a point where all three teams get what they want?

Exactly. When talking about viability or likelihood of things happening, two-team deals are always more likely. Again, that's just another best case scenario for the Bulls to land Bosh. Impossible, no...but likely, probably not.

Dieselpi
06-13-2010, 02:44 PM
even if they don't get Lee back, that would still be a solid team. Definately a contender in the East.

being a contender in the east isnt saying much
you could be sub 500 and still make the playoffs, i dont see donnie being that stupid and wasting currys expiring.

i honetly think they look at currys expiring as a insurance policy if they miss on lebron, they will try and move for melo. and then use the cap space to build around him.

oak2455
06-13-2010, 02:58 PM
Cant wait for July 1st then I dont have to hear of these 15 different scenarios in which the Bulls, and The Heat are getting LBJ, and Bosh.............


Cant wait to buy my LBJ jersey should I get it in the Knicks home white or blue away?? Maybe I'll just get both at the NBA store in Manhattan:clap::clap:

Dieselpi
06-13-2010, 03:14 PM
Cant wait for July 1st then I dont have to hear of these 15 different scenarios in which the Bulls, and The Heat are getting LBJ, and Bosh.............


Cant wait to buy my LBJ jersey should I get it in the Knicks home white or blue away?? Maybe I'll just get both at the NBA store in Manhattan:clap::clap:

all kidding aside, if he were to sign with the knicks
every store would sell out of both jerseys in minutes

theyd probably sell a lot of those ugly green and orange ones too.

RipVW
06-13-2010, 03:36 PM
Well, anyway, to answer the question presented in the OP, Yes. The Bulls would be contenders by adding Bosh and James. Theres little doubt about that.