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View Full Version : Charles Oakley says "Dwight Howard wouldnt have made the league 10yrs ago"



JordansBulls
06-05-2010, 12:03 AM
Link (http://sportsradiointerviews.com/2010/06/04/charles-oakley-on-his-friend-lebron-i-cant-tell-him-to-go-to-new-york-new-york-treated-me-bad/)




On Dwight Howard:

“Dwight Howard is embarrassing Patrick (Ewing) if you ask me. He doesn’t have a ball player’s mind. And they tell me he is one of the best centers in the game. He wouldn’t have even made the league ten years ago. He would be on the bench. They say he won’t listen. Dwight won’t listen. How can you not listen to Patrick Ewing?”

29$JerZ
06-05-2010, 12:09 AM
He would make it, that's a ridiculous comment.

If he meant Dwight wouldn't be as dominant because the bigs back in the day > now I'd understand but not making the team?

dolphan
06-05-2010, 12:12 AM
It getting to the point where all these Dwight Howard criticism is getting out of hand. The kid is back to back defensive player of the year and is the CORE of the magic franchise for 10+ years (if hes with them that long).

D12 is one of, if not THE best center in the NBA. PERIOD

Reyes6
06-05-2010, 12:13 AM
Charles Oakley wouldn't make the NBA today.

Twolves88
06-05-2010, 12:14 AM
i dont get why everyone is ripping on dwight....
Sure hes not an offensive machine or a complete player yet.... but maybe he'll figure it out some day. The problem with most big men today is they don't want to work on their footwork. If you look at Shaq's footwork in the low post its very nice. Thats what alot of todays bigs are missing

thapharcyd
06-05-2010, 12:14 AM
10 years ago Shawn Bradley started as center in the NBA.... Shawn..... Bradley.... I think Dwight Howard is a little better than Shawn Bradley... Most ridiculous comment ever.

Westbrook36
06-05-2010, 12:18 AM
Wouldn't have been a superstar most likely, but still a pretty productive center.

_KB24_
06-05-2010, 12:18 AM
Oakley's *** wouldn't make the NBA today before Dwight would back then.

Straight up dumbass.

whitemamba33
06-05-2010, 12:20 AM
He'd make it in the league..that's going a little bit too far. But if he isn't listen to Patrick Ewing...than that is pretty sad. Howard still has LOTS to learn..especially on the offensive end. He's not going to get by on dunks alone.

RadiantShot
06-05-2010, 12:24 AM
Who's Charles Oakley..?
:rolleyes:
Idiots these days.

Bruno
06-05-2010, 12:25 AM
Obviously a stupid statement, but maybe the part about not listening to Ewing is true. Maybe he refuses to work on his offense. Only time will tell.

Bruno
06-05-2010, 12:29 AM
Also- what's with all these 90's era players acting as if the 1990's was the most competitive era in league history? It's ridiculous.

EDIT: I recognize some amazing centers played in the 90's.

avrpatsfan
06-05-2010, 12:37 AM
10 years ago Shawn Bradley started as center in the NBA.... Shawn..... Bradley.... I think Dwight Howard is a little better than Shawn Bradley... Most ridiculous comment ever.
/Thread. I thought is was Charles Barkley for a second. I hope I'm not the only one.

shep33
06-05-2010, 12:39 AM
he woulda made the league, if he played in the mid 90s i don't think he'd be as dominant though... gotta remember Shaq, David Robinson, Pat, Dikembe, Zo, oh and a guy named Hakeem were in the league back then absolutely kililng it. I still think defensively D12 woulda been awesome, but some of the greatest centers of all time played in the 90s, and they were very good on both sides of the court.

Still love D12 i think he still has the potential to improve offensively, which he will. Spend a summer with Hakeem, and i think he'll be fine haha, since everybody is doing it these days.

JasonJohnHorn
06-05-2010, 12:49 AM
I understand where Oakley is coming from.

People rave about how Howard has lead the league in blocks for two straight years, but you know what, they are the second and this lowest averages to league the lead (only Elton Brand had a lower league-leading average). From 87-98 Howard wouldnt have finished higher than 5th in the league in block shots.

Looking at the guys who were playing centers from say 1986-2000, you have to admit that the level of talent in that era would have potentially had Howard coming off the bench. Now Howard is a solid shot blocker and everybody wants one of those, and he is a great rebounder, and everybody wants some of those, so Howard would have been starting in the league in that era I think, but his limited offensive game would have had him sitting behind guys like Mourng, Shaq, Hakeem, Robinson, Ewing, Jabbar, Smits, Laimbeer, Perkins, Daughtery, Sikley, Moses Malone, Sabonis, Vlade Divac, Parish, McHale, Duckworth, Mutumbo. I mean, the league was deep at center in that era, and most of those guys had a great offensive skill set, so yeah, Howard would have had a harder time getting minutes, and playing in that era he would have been a second rate center and not even in the conversation as a top-five center in the league let alone the best center in the league.

I think Oakley is obviously exagerating, but the point of hte matter is really that the center position in the league is SO weak right now, that a guy who wouldnt have even been a top five center in the league between 84-98 is the best center in the league now. Had a team like Utah had him instead of Ostertag or Eaten, then yes, they would have been a much better team, and likely champions, but the game Howard has now would not have held up 10-15 years ago.

That said, Howard is still the best center in the league now and I think Oakley is more or less challenging him to start fulfilling his potential and step his game up, because lets face it, as dominant as Howard is, his passing and offence is in the toilet and if he can be the passer Shaq was, or develop the foot work or range of Hakeem, this guy will be one of the greatest of all time, rather than the great of his generation.

D1JM
06-05-2010, 12:49 AM
Also- what's with all these 90's era players acting as if the 1990's was the most competitive era in league history? It's ridiculous.

it wasnt? Just because jordan and the bulls dominated dont mean it wasnt competitive.

Lindystud36
06-05-2010, 12:52 AM
D12 needs lebron on his team
haha and the 90's were legit, they had some guy names jordan playing...

Bruno
06-05-2010, 01:04 AM
it wasnt? Just because jordan and the bulls dominated dont mean it wasnt competitive.

Don't get me wrong- it was extremely competitive. MJ is the GOAT (although I think its closer than most people think). But I'd like to think that the other eras, before it and after were just as competitive.

I don't like seeing older players downplay the current era just to boost their own personal legacy. IMO this era has just as many all time greats as any era (Bryant, Duncan, LeBron, KG ect).

But I get what Oak is saying. The 90's had some amazing Centers. I'd also like to think that Dwights lack of competition at the C position makes him complacent, in terms of working on his offensive game. I think great players make other great players better, and that those 90's made each other better by default- because they had to go against each other for years.

links136
06-05-2010, 01:07 AM
10 years ago there was no defensive 3 in the key and 13 years ago there was no restricted area.

kntresistheheat
06-05-2010, 01:09 AM
That is a very dumb statement, He needs some work.....So what! When Yao came to the league everyone was saying that his upper body is week and would not dominate with the centers in the league, but he turned pretty good and I know he is injury prone but he worked on his post game and got stronger. Dwight just needs to work harder on his post and foot work.

D1JM
06-05-2010, 01:13 AM
That is a very dumb statement, He needs some work.....So what! When Yao came to the league everyone was saying that his upper body is week and would not dominate with the centers in the league, but he turned pretty good and I know he is injury prone but he worked on his post game and got stronger. Dwight just needs to work harder on his post and foot work.

the thing is that a lot are saying he is not willing to learn. Just like bynum arrogance of not learning from kareem

kozelkid
06-05-2010, 01:13 AM
I think people are taking Oakley's comments a little TOO literal. It's obviously a hyperbole, but to a degree he's right. You look at the 90s, I have a very hard time believing Howard would have any chance against guys like Ewing, Hakeem, Shaq, Robinson, Mourning, Mutombo, etc.
And anyone who is actually trying to insult Oakley's game should be embarrassed of themselves. He was a great defender and rebounder.

kozelkid
06-05-2010, 01:15 AM
Also- what's with all these 90's era players acting as if the 1990's was the most competitive era in league history? It's ridiculous.


Well it kinda was...

With that said, currently the league is finally recovering. Though it was pretty bad from around 2000-2008 where the East was pretty much a joke.

Bruno
06-05-2010, 01:24 AM
Well it kinda was...

With that said, currently the league is finally recovering. Though it was pretty bad from around 2000-2008 where the East was pretty much a joke.

Recovering? Ratings should have nothing to do with how we judge the competition on the court. Look at 2005. Extremely competitive, worst ratings ever.

Show me the numbers. What makes the 90's more competitive than any other era in NBA history?

Talent was lopsided in favor of the West (2000's) but that's gona happen when most of the best players of the era are all playing for WC teams (Bryant, Shaq, Duncan, KG, Nash, Dirk, Ray,). The extreme competition in the West makes up for the lack of it in the east (Pierce, AI,...) during those years, IMO. I'm not saying the 2000s were the most competitive either- no decade had clear cut more competition than the others.

*Side note: The 2004 Pistons and 2008 Celtics were two of the best defensive teams ever. Don't sell the east totally short here.

marvILLous
06-05-2010, 01:37 AM
I think people are taking Oakley's comments a little TOO literal. It's obviously a hyperbole, but to a degree he's right. You look at the 90s, I have a very hard time believing Howard would have any chance against guys like Ewing, Hakeem, Shaq, Robinson, Mourning, Mutombo, etc.
And anyone who is actually trying to insult Oakley's game should be embarrassed of themselves. He was a great defender and rebounder.

this!!

kozelkid
06-05-2010, 01:38 AM
Recovering? Ratings should have nothing to do with how we judge the competition on the court. Look at 2005. Extremely competitive, worst ratings ever.

Show me the numbers. What makes the 90's more competitive than any other era in NBA history?

Talent was lopsided in favor of the West (2000's) but that's gona happen when most of the best players of the era are all playing for WC teams (Bryant, Shaq, Duncan, KG, Nash, Dirk, Ray,). The extreme competition in the West makes up for the lack of it in the east (Pierce, AI,...) during those years, IMO. I'm not saying the 2000s were the most competitive either- no decade had clear cut more competition than the others.

*Side note: The 2004 Pistons and 2008 Celtics were two of the best defensive teams ever. Don't sell the east totally short here.

Well considering Lakers had pretty much 2 of the top 3 players in the league, I don't know how you can say it was competitive.
That and the fact that for most of the years, there were only 4 great teams: SAS, SAC, LA and DAL... I'd hardly call that competitive...

Twolves88
06-05-2010, 01:39 AM
I have to disagree with the best defensive team thing. I think the spurs could of gave both of those teams a really close run for their money...

FOBolous
06-05-2010, 01:40 AM
i dont get why everyone is ripping on dwight....
Sure hes not an offensive machine or a complete player yet.... but maybe he'll figure it out some day. The problem with most big men today is they don't want to work on their footwork. If you look at Shaq's footwork in the low post its very nice. Thats what alot of todays bigs are missing

it's too late for him. how many years has he been in the league? if he hasn't figure it out by now...he's never figuring it out.

kozelkid
06-05-2010, 01:42 AM
Recovering? Ratings should have nothing to do with how we judge the competition on the court. Look at 2005. Extremely competitive, worst ratings ever.

Show me the numbers. What makes the 90's more competitive than any other era in NBA history?

Talent was lopsided in favor of the West (2000's) but that's gona happen when most of the best players of the era are all playing for WC teams (Bryant, Shaq, Duncan, KG, Nash, Dirk, Ray,). The extreme competition in the West makes up for the lack of it in the east (Pierce, AI,...) during those years, IMO. I'm not saying the 2000s were the most competitive either- no decade had clear cut more competition than the others.

*Side note: The 2004 Pistons and 2008 Celtics were two of the best defensive teams ever. Don't sell the east totally short here.

Don't sell the 90s Knicks short...
I'll say this though, near the late 90s it was getting watered down mainly due to all the expansion teams entering. Which was one of the reasons why the beginning of the 2000s was bad imo. That and 3 horrible drafts in 1999, 2000 and 2001.

Bruno
06-05-2010, 01:43 AM
Well considering Lakers had pretty much 2 of the top 3 players in the league, I don't know how you can say it was competitive.
That and the fact that for most of the years, there were only 4 great teams: SAS, SAC, LA and DAL... I'd hardly call that competitive...

Ok, but in the 90's you had the Pistons, the Bulls and the Rockets, and thats about it. By the same logic, would you call that competitive?? It goes both ways.

And the Bulls had two of the top players in the league on their team as well. Shouldn't the same logic apply?

And you forgot the Pistons and Celtics who won titles.

FOBolous
06-05-2010, 01:43 AM
Don't get me wrong- it was extremely competitive. MJ is the GOAT (although I think its closer than most people think). But I'd like to think that the other eras, before it and after were just as competitive.

I don't like seeing older players downplay the current era just to boost their own personal legacy. IMO this era has just as many all time greats as any era (Bryant, Duncan, LeBron, KG ect).

But I get what Oak is saying. The 90's had some amazing Centers. I'd also like to think that Dwights lack of competition at the C position makes him complacent, in terms of working on his offensive game. I think great players make other great players better, and that those 90's made each other better by default- because they had to go against each other for years.

getting dominated by Yao every time he plays against him isn't enough to motive him...? by a supposedly "soft" center? that's the problem with dwight...he doesn't have the drive nor the passion required for a player to be truly great.

Bruno
06-05-2010, 01:44 AM
Don't sell the 90s Knicks short...
I'll say this though, near the late 90s it was getting watered down mainly due to all the expansion teams entering. Which was one of the reasons why the beginning of the 2000s was bad imo. That and 3 horrible drafts in 1999, 2000 and 2001.

lol, at what point did I sell the 90's Knicks short? They were legit.

Iron24th
06-05-2010, 01:44 AM
Oakley is stupid, Dwight is a beast,he just didn't have smart players around him who know how to use him.

RadiantShot
06-05-2010, 01:45 AM
getting dominated by Yao every time he plays against him isn't enough to motive him...? by a supposedly "soft" center? that's the problem with dwight...he doesn't have the drive nor the passion required for a player to be truly great.

Stop riding Yao. He doesn't even see the floor. We'll see who dominates who next season.

Bruno
06-05-2010, 01:47 AM
I have to disagree with the best defensive team thing. I think the spurs could of gave both of those teams a really close run for their money...

Which Spurs team are we talking about?

The 2004 Spurs lost to the Lakers 4-2, who lost to the Pistons 4-1.

The 2008 Spurs lost to the Lakers 4-1, who lost to the Celtics 4-2.

Bruno
06-05-2010, 01:48 AM
getting dominated by Yao every time he plays against him isn't enough to motive him...? by a supposedly "soft" center? that's the problem with dwight...he doesn't have the drive nor the passion required for a player to be truly great.

Exactly. Yao, and thats it. Theres nobody else. Yao has been injured half the time anyways.

Master Mind
06-05-2010, 01:56 AM
Oakley is stupid, Dwight is a beast,he just didn't have smart players around him who know how to use him.

Somehow that statement is somewhat contradicting on Dwight's behalf...If you're a beast you don't need players to use you, you use them...

tredigs
06-05-2010, 02:01 AM
Ok, but in the 90's you had the Pistons, the Bulls and the Rockets, and thats about it. By the same logic, would you call that competitive?? It goes both ways.

And the Bulls had two of the top players in the league on their team as well. Shouldn't the same logic apply?

And you forgot the Pistons and Celtics who won titles.

Hmmm. Jazz, Knicks, Pacers? They were all incredibly tough every year throughout the decade.

As per Oakley's comments, it's tough to say. If he's just exaggerating because he happens to know that Dwight isn't following Ewing's advice, then he is making a legitimate point. But if he's misinformed and Howard is trying the best he can and simply can't quite put it together, then he's obviously out of line. Howard would've started on most teams in the 90's. Obviously not all, but a majority.

I think he would've been a better player had he been challenged night in and night out like the 90's bigs would require of him, but it's true that his blocks/rebound titles probably overrate him to a lot of the younger generation. He truly would have been over matched by a dozen or so bigs of the 90's.

ohreally
06-05-2010, 02:06 AM
In the 90s I think Howard would be more likely to be a power forward, sort of in the Oakley mold, though Oakley had a better jumper. Oakley would definitely have a lot of adjustments to make in today's NBA. And Dwight would have a lot of adjustments to make in the 90s. It's hard to compare eras, but the offense Dwight has probably would have been more limited by 90s rules. He would still have been a good rebounder and shot blocker, but would that be enough?

I have to say, what I found shocking in the Boston series was when N8 reached out and grabbed Howard's upper arm with one hand and actually stopped him from going up for a shot. Says a lot about N8's strength actually, but might say something about Dwight as well.

I think Dwight could use a LeBron on his team, and LeBron wouldn't have to sacrifice much of anything to play beside Dwight. If I was LeBron, and thinking of leaving Cleveland, I'd tried everything to force my way to Orlando somehow.

nolafan33
06-05-2010, 02:14 AM
Dwight is still young, he's got a lot of growing to do still. Though I will say, I've seen little improvement in his offensive game.

hgtiger32
06-05-2010, 02:14 AM
i skimmed thru this complete B.S. and found one of the posts to be funny when he listed all of the Centers who would be better than Dwight on offense and what not...haha what a joke. Mutumbo and Vlade frigen Divac better than Dwight? wow, let's not forget that Dwight's freak of nature body would break those guys back in the day.

***the style of basketball changes over time with different players...has led his team to a finals which LeBron James has also only done once...i mean seriously get off this guy and appreciate him, look at glass half full dumb @$$e$

Iron24th
06-05-2010, 02:17 AM
Somehow that statement is somewhat contradicting on Dwight's behalf...If you're a beast you don't need players to use you, you use them...

And your point is?

Shaq was a beast,but he waited so many years before he had good and smart players around him to win anything,so, do you say Shaq was not a beast?

LkrLand
06-05-2010, 02:55 AM
Link (http://sportsradiointerviews.com/2010/06/04/charles-oakley-on-his-friend-lebron-i-cant-tell-him-to-go-to-new-york-new-york-treated-me-bad/)

Although I think Howard should have advanced his skills much more than his current status, he definitely is an enormous impact on the NBA.

Sadds The Gr8
06-05-2010, 03:14 AM
Hmmm. Jazz, Knicks, Pacers? They were all incredibly tough every year throughout the decade.

As per Oakley's comments, it's tough to say. If he's just exaggerating because he happens to know that Dwight isn't following Ewing's advice, then he is making a legitimate point. But if he's misinformed and Howard is trying the best he can and simply can't quite put it together, then he's obviously out of line. Howard would've started on most teams in the 90's. Obviously not all, but a majority.

I think he would've been a better player had he been challenged night in and night out like the 90's bigs would require of him, but it's true that his blocks/rebound titles probably overrate him to a lot of the younger generation. He truly would have been over matched by a dozen or so bigs of the 90's.
this.

Master Mind
06-05-2010, 03:17 AM
And your point is?

Shaq was a beast,but he waited so many years before he had good and smart players around him to win anything,so, do you say Shaq was not a beast?

IDK It just seems like he's suppose to benefit from all the 3 pt. threats/shooters Orlando has, seeing how they're not double teaming him as much as opposed to a Shaq who was double teamed 80% of the time (and that's moderate) and still "beasted"...Don't get me wrong, Dwight is a hell of an athlete with a super hero physique but basketball is more than just dunking...

J4KOP99
06-05-2010, 03:20 AM
I understand where Oakley is coming from.

People rave about how Howard has lead the league in blocks for two straight years, but you know what, they are the second and this lowest averages to league the lead (only Elton Brand had a lower league-leading average). From 87-98 Howard wouldnt have finished higher than 5th in the league in block shots.

Looking at the guys who were playing centers from say 1986-2000, you have to admit that the level of talent in that era would have potentially had Howard coming off the bench. Now Howard is a solid shot blocker and everybody wants one of those, and he is a great rebounder, and everybody wants some of those, so Howard would have been starting in the league in that era I think, but his limited offensive game would have had him sitting behind guys like Mourng, Shaq, Hakeem, Robinson, Ewing, Jabbar, Smits, Laimbeer, Perkins, Daughtery, Sikley, Moses Malone, Sabonis, Vlade Divac, Parish, McHale, Duckworth, Mutumbo. I mean, the league was deep at center in that era, and most of those guys had a great offensive skill set, so yeah, Howard would have had a harder time getting minutes, and playing in that era he would have been a second rate center and not even in the conversation as a top-five center in the league let alone the best center in the league.

I think Oakley is obviously exagerating, but the point of hte matter is really that the center position in the league is SO weak right now, that a guy who wouldnt have even been a top five center in the league between 84-98 is the best center in the league now. Had a team like Utah had him instead of Ostertag or Eaten, then yes, they would have been a much better team, and likely champions, but the game Howard has now would not have held up 10-15 years ago.

That said, Howard is still the best center in the league now and I think Oakley is more or less challenging him to start fulfilling his potential and step his game up, because lets face it, as dominant as Howard is, his passing and offence is in the toilet and if he can be the passer Shaq was, or develop the foot work or range of Hakeem, this guy will be one of the greatest of all time, rather than the great of his generation.

I wish it was more often that I would come across posts this good on PSD.

kurivaimu
06-05-2010, 04:13 AM
i wish it was more often that i would come across posts this good on psd.

+1

jackdawson
06-05-2010, 04:46 AM
Charles Oakley must have seen my sig, otherwise he wouldn't make this statement. If anybody reads my sig and makes such a statement, I wouldn't blame him much.

Iron24th
06-05-2010, 04:51 AM
IDK It just seems like he's suppose to benefit from all the 3 pt. threats/shooters Orlando has, seeing how they're not double teaming him as much as opposed to a Shaq who was double teamed 80% of the time (and that's moderate) and still "beasted"...Don't get me wrong, Dwight is a hell of an athlete with a super hero physique but basketball is more than just dunking...

Yeah I agree,I admit he's limited offensively.

Raidaz4Life
06-05-2010, 07:58 AM
Wow.... bold claim to make since Dwight is way more athletic than anyone who played in the 90's

netsgiantsyanks
06-05-2010, 08:22 AM
/Thread. I thought is was Charles Barkley for a second. I hope I'm not the only one.

i thought it was too

Russollini
06-05-2010, 08:41 AM
As I recall Hakeem SUCKED his first few years. he was soft, and always hurt, then all of a sudden POW!

It takes time for bigs to fully develop their game, which is why I hope that the Heat take their time with Beas. D12 is still young. He has just been in the league for a while. The issue with the Magic was

1. The Celtics were playing at a level that was not stoppable (The Heat had a shot though :) )
2. All the other offense disappeared and it was left up to Howard, and he is not a carry the team offensively guy. That being said, he did have some good offensive games in the playoffs, and look at his efficiency, it is insane.

The 5 has changed so much in recent years that it is hard to compare todays players to the 90s as well. Those Cs were thugs! They were bruisers. The C was the enforcer. Now the C is shorter, quicker and expected to do more then just stand in the paint and beat people down and playing ball around the rim. I believe D12 athletically may be superior to some of them, and in time he will learn to use his size better down low and become not the Defensive player of the year, or the best C in the history of the game, but a game changer. That is what all of those Cs were, game changers. Watching Zo, Oscar, Ewing, Shaq et all get in position and block the lane was how the C should play. Now days the C is 18 feet out playing off the ball and away from the rim. It drives me crazy. I would love to see a C hold his ground as Bron, Bron barrels through an open lane. That is what made Jordan so amazing, is he did it over whoever was there, now days they just go around.

Mplsman
06-05-2010, 08:46 AM
I hope this is a joke. Dwight would have killed it even more 10 yrs ago.

Raps18-19 Champ
06-05-2010, 08:59 AM
Lol at all your reactions.

I can't believe to this day, people still take things that literally.

He knows that Howard can make it. He's just saying he wouldn't as good.

I thought it was obvious. I don't know how none of your guys understood it too.

blastmasta26
06-05-2010, 09:03 AM
Lol at all your reactions.

I can't believe to this day, people still take things that literally.

He knows that Howard can make it. He's just saying he wouldn't as good.

I thought it was obvious. I don't know how none of your guys understood it too.
Obviously. I think he's mainly criticizing Howard for not listening to Ewing.

knickerbockerny
06-05-2010, 09:28 AM
I understand where Oakley is coming from.

People rave about how Howard has lead the league in blocks for two straight years, but you know what, they are the second and this lowest averages to league the lead (only Elton Brand had a lower league-leading average). From 87-98 Howard wouldnt have finished higher than 5th in the league in block shots.

Looking at the guys who were playing centers from say 1986-2000, you have to admit that the level of talent in that era would have potentially had Howard coming off the bench. Now Howard is a solid shot blocker and everybody wants one of those, and he is a great rebounder, and everybody wants some of those, so Howard would have been starting in the league in that era I think, but his limited offensive game would have had him sitting behind guys like Mourng, Shaq, Hakeem, Robinson, Ewing, Jabbar, Smits, Laimbeer, Perkins, Daughtery, Sikley, Moses Malone, Sabonis, Vlade Divac, Parish, McHale, Duckworth, Mutumbo. I mean, the league was deep at center in that era, and most of those guys had a great offensive skill set, so yeah, Howard would have had a harder time getting minutes, and playing in that era he would have been a second rate center and not even in the conversation as a top-five center in the league let alone the best center in the league.

I think Oakley is obviously exagerating, but the point of hte matter is really that the center position in the league is SO weak right now, that a guy who wouldnt have even been a top five center in the league between 84-98 is the best center in the league now. Had a team like Utah had him instead of Ostertag or Eaten, then yes, they would have been a much better team, and likely champions, but the game Howard has now would not have held up 10-15 years ago.

That said, Howard is still the best center in the league now and I think Oakley is more or less challenging him to start fulfilling his potential and step his game up, because lets face it, as dominant as Howard is, his passing and offence is in the toilet and if he can be the passer Shaq was, or develop the foot work or range of Hakeem, this guy will be one of the greatest of all time, rather than the great of his generation.

Perfectly stated!

But to add to that, the way that the game is called now a days also gives a player like Dwight Howard an advantage. You can barely touch him and its a foul.

Players like Chris Bosh also benefit from this era. There are hardly any touch nosed bangers and bruisers down low, so a Chris Bosh who weights 230lbs is considered a dominate big.

Back to Howard though he really needs to get a couple go to moves and add a short range jumper.

skinsfan4life80
06-05-2010, 10:18 AM
As I recall Hakeem SUCKED his first few years. he was soft, and always hurt, then all of a sudden POW!

It takes time for bigs to fully develop their game, which is why I hope that the Heat take their time with Beas. D12 is still young. He has just been in the league for a while. The issue with the Magic was

1. The Celtics were playing at a level that was not stoppable (The Heat had a shot though :) )
2. All the other offense disappeared and it was left up to Howard, and he is not a carry the team offensively guy. That being said, he did have some good offensive games in the playoffs, and look at his efficiency, it is insane.

The 5 has changed so much in recent years that it is hard to compare todays players to the 90s as well. Those Cs were thugs! They were bruisers. The C was the enforcer. Now the C is shorter, quicker and expected to do more then just stand in the paint and beat people down and playing ball around the rim. I believe D12 athletically may be superior to some of them, and in time he will learn to use his size better down low and become not the Defensive player of the year, or the best C in the history of the game, but a game changer. That is what all of those Cs were, game changers. Watching Zo, Oscar, Ewing, Shaq et all get in position and block the lane was how the C should play. Now days the C is 18 feet out playing off the ball and away from the rim. It drives me crazy. I would love to see a C hold his ground as Bron, Bron barrels through an open lane. That is what made Jordan so amazing, is he did it over whoever was there, now days they just go around.

What the hell are you talking about. Hakeem played 82 games his rookie year and avg 20 and 12 on 53 prercent shooting. Was first team all rookie..and 2nd team all defense. His second year he avg 23 and 11 with 3 blks and finished 4th in the mvp voting and was 2nd team all nba..by his third season he was first team all nba. He played 75 or more games 4 of his first 5 years including three 82 game seasons. I dont think i have ever and i do mean ever read a post that was more wrong. You totally missed the boat on that one:facepalm:

O yea almost forgot in his second season he took his team to the Finals and avg 27 and 12 in the playoffs with 3blks

Sandman
06-05-2010, 10:27 AM
/Thread. I thought is was Charles Barkley for a second. I hope I'm not the only one.

haha you're not alone. i even saw your post and thought 'the hell is this guy talking about the thread IS about charles barkley'

effen5
06-05-2010, 10:31 AM
I hope this is a joke. Dwight would have killed it even more 10 yrs ago.

im assuming you were born in the mid 90s?

You do realize there were more dominant centers in the 90s? Theres probably 4-5 legit Centers in the league right now. If anything, Dwight would have strugglled even more in he 90s.

Sandman
06-05-2010, 10:42 AM
dwight just wouldn't have been a scorer at all.

he's still just 24.

dnl123
06-05-2010, 10:48 AM
I'm surprised how many people have this wrong. Oakley is just saying that Dwight won't listen to Patrick Ewing who was a great NBA player that he could learn from. If you don't respect those types of people you won't learn how to play to your highest potential. From what I gather from Oakleys comments he's upset about Dwight's attitude.

GrumpyOldMan
06-05-2010, 10:49 AM
Dwight's limitations offensively would have been as obvious in the '90's as they are today. On the other hand his defense would have been just as good, maybe better.
I hope he is listening to Ewing more than Oakley is letting on. The legacy he leaves may depend on his offence. Otherwise he'll simply be remembered the same way as Ben Wallace and Charles Oakley. Great defenders.

lakersrock
06-05-2010, 10:50 AM
It getting to the point where all these Dwight Howard criticism is getting out of hand. The kid is back to back defensive player of the year and is the CORE of the magic franchise for 10+ years (if hes with them that long).

D12 is one of, if not THE best center in the NBA. PERIOD

Gasol is much better. (Don't give me the he's a PF crap either. He spends half the game at C when Bynum sits.)

Raoul Duke
06-05-2010, 10:54 AM
...his limited offensive game would have had him sitting behind guys like Mourng, Shaq, Hakeem, Robinson, Ewing, Jabbar, Smits, Laimbeer, Perkins, Daughtery, Sikley, Moses Malone, Sabonis, Vlade Divac, Parish, McHale, Duckworth, Mutumbo. I mean, the league was deep at center in that era, and most of those guys had a great offensive skill set...

That is a really, really great little nugget right there. One of the things I lament most in today's NBA is the fact that guards have forgotten how to get their big men the ball on anything other than lobs and pick and rolls. It's a lost art.

It's just laughable how many times per game Howard establishes great post positioning and the magic guards end up kicking it out for a three. It's downright depressing. I don't know if it's bad coaching, or... actually, I'm pretty sure it's bad coaching, but it's a freakin' leaguewide epidemic.

KnicksorBust
06-05-2010, 11:03 AM
I'm surprised how many people have this wrong. Oakley is just saying that Dwight won't listen to Patrick Ewing who was a great NBA player that he could learn from. If you don't respect those types of people you won't learn how to play to your highest potential. From what I gather from Oakleys comments he's upset about Dwight's attitude.

Then he shouldn't have said Dwight Howard wouldn't have made the league. He could have just said "Dwight Howard wouldn't have been an All-Star" or "Dwight Howard wouldn't have even been a top 10-15 center." Any valuable part of his quote is lost in that asanine remark.

dtmagnet
06-05-2010, 11:16 AM
Then he shouldn't have said Dwight Howard wouldn't have made the league. He could have just said "Dwight Howard wouldn't have been an All-Star" or "Dwight Howard wouldn't have even been a top 10-15 center." Any valuable part of his quote is lost in that asanine remark.

That's Charles Oakley's personality, would you expect him to sugar coat it?

Raps18-19 Champ
06-05-2010, 11:36 AM
Then he shouldn't have said Dwight Howard wouldn't have made the league. He could have just said "Dwight Howard wouldn't have been an All-Star" or "Dwight Howard wouldn't have even been a top 10-15 center." Any valuable part of his quote is lost in that asanine remark.

Who actually talks like that in real life though?

He's trying to make a point. He's obviously going to exaggerate to get his attention.

KnicksorBust
06-05-2010, 12:21 PM
That's Charles Oakley's personality, would you expect him to sugar coat it?

No but if the guy who posted at the top was right that the purpose of his quote was to say he wasn't listening to Patrick Ewing, then he went about it in the completely wrong way. It gets completely lost in the sensationalism of his stupid comment that Howard wouldn't make the league.


Who actually talks like that in real life though?

He's trying to make a point. He's obviously going to exaggerate to get his attention.

I mean I see your point but I just hate that style. "I guess you think Robert Horry is better than Karl Malone because he won more RINGS, LMAO IDIOT!" Exaggeration works to a degree but when I think someone is saying something that doesn't make sense or that I know they don't even believe then it gets ridiculous.

I could easily see him saying "I don't think Dwight Howard would have ever made an All-Star team 10 years ago" and still getting a similar response. And at least that comment would have stirred real debate rather than just "stfu Oakley" "You wouldn't make the league today Oakley" replies.

Raps18-19 Champ
06-05-2010, 12:35 PM
I mean I see your point but I just hate that style. "I guess you think Robert Horry is better than Karl Malone because he won more RINGS, LMAO IDIOT!" Exaggeration works to a degree but when I think someone is saying something that doesn't make sense or that I know they don't even believe then it gets ridiculous.

I could easily see him saying "I don't think Dwight Howard would have ever made an All-Star team 10 years ago" and still getting a similar response. And at least that comment would have stirred real debate rather than just "stfu Oakley" "You wouldn't make the league today Oakley" replies.

Hate the style all you want. As long as you understood what he meant by it.

And your example was WAY to exaggerated. You should have tried something like, "Lebron, Kobe or Wade couldn't have survived against the great wing/backcourt players in the 80's and 90's."

It's Charles Oakley. He's like a Garnett. He's not going to be polite about it. If you doing something wrong, he's gonna tell you that you pretty much suck. Even if it's not true.

And the only people making those comments are insecure fans who took something that was clearly not literal because it was towards one of their favourite players.

CowboysKB24
06-05-2010, 12:38 PM
That a little too far. Dwight would still start and be a top defense player in the game. His defense is where it is suppose to be, but his offense needs about 7-10 more points a game.

I'd like to see him average at least 25 points 12+RBs 2+BLKs. If he gets his FTs up to 75-80% that will be a plus too.

ldc62
06-05-2010, 12:49 PM
Dwight would be a starter, but his game woulda been exposed big time.

*-THE REAL GM-*
06-05-2010, 12:53 PM
Charles Oakley wouldn't make the NBA today.

Thats just not true. Oak was very, very strong coming out of college, quick for his position in the first half of his career and he had the kenyon martin attitude of his day..
he was one of those guys that could shoot the 16 foot jumper and get 13-18 rebounds, and box out the opposing center or biggest player effectively all day long.
he was a good player, in todays game he would be a starter, because coming out of college he had better basketball IQ than most of the pfs in the league right now..

I think you guys should look at what he is saying about dwights attitude as opposed to the crazy wacked out assumtion that dwight wouldnt make it in the league.

Another thing. Dont let oakley fool you, he is very savy guy.. Im sure he knows that by saying dwight wouldnt make it in the league ten years ago his statement on dwight being an unwilling student would get the attention that he wants to see. He is doing his pal patrick a favor by saying patrick can make DH better but DH is too stupd to listen to a HOF center.. Oakley knows what he is doing.. Im sure.

kozelkid
06-05-2010, 12:57 PM
Ok, but in the 90's you had the Pistons, the Bulls and the Rockets, and thats about it. By the same logic, would you call that competitive?? It goes both ways.

And the Bulls had two of the top players in the league on their team as well. Shouldn't the same logic apply?

And you forgot the Pistons and Celtics who won titles.

Umm... Jazz, Sonics, Pacers, Cavs, Suns I could go...
Sadly the fact that Bulls dominated so much does not do justice to just how competitive the 90s really were.

PBG
06-05-2010, 01:10 PM
i think howard would be better suited for an 80s-90s style of basketball, less super tacky fouls and would be allowed to truly bang down low. stern has made the nba pretty pussyish :down:

michelangelo
06-05-2010, 01:32 PM
Dwight is far from dominant even now. He still can't make layups consistently and his footwork and overall offensive game, remain embarrassing.

He's a good rebounder and shot blocker in a weak conference in an era devoid of dominant centers. Or even competent centers.


He would make it, that's a ridiculous comment.

If he meant Dwight wouldn't be as dominant because the bigs back in the day > now I'd understand but not making the team?

AI4MVP
06-05-2010, 01:37 PM
i still stand by my statement that i would rather have Andrew Bogut then Dwight Howard. Bogut has nearly unstoppable post moves, along with being almost on par with dwight howard defensively. but obvioulsy everyoines going to hate becuz Dwight Howard is black with huge muscles and bogut is a floppy haired aussie

thekmp211
06-05-2010, 01:43 PM
i still stand by my statement that i would rather have Andrew Bogut then Dwight Howard. Bogut has nearly unstoppable post moves, along with being almost on par with dwight howard defensively. but obvioulsy everyoines going to hate becuz Dwight Howard is black with huge muscles and bogut is a floppy haired aussie

i love bogut and he's closer to d12 than most think, but no. dwight is the most dominant on the league. dwight is LIGHTYEARS, LIGHTYEARS cannot convey enoughLIGHTYEARS ahead of bogut defensively. better one on one, and help-defense doesnt merit a response.

in response to oakley, what a ****. this is coming from a starter who was shorter, less athletic and equally unskilled. unreal.

perhaps he would have been more of an oakley-level player but coming from him of all people what an absurd comment.

BkOriginalOne
06-05-2010, 01:53 PM
Yes, Howard is not as good as he should be. If you couldn't see this coming on 2004 draft day than you're not an NBA fan.
His back to back Defensive player of the year is the most overrated achievement ever.
They guy is the lone shot blocker and double digit rebounder on a team that jacks up 3s.
If he's not getting at least 3 blocks and 12 boards per - it's a fail.
He doesn't play great position defense - doesn't pick up any steals and yet he is the DPOY w/o contest. Sad. Just give it to the guards and forwards please.
How can you be DPOY at Center when you're biggest opponents are Bynum, Lopez and old Shaq?

thekmp211
06-05-2010, 01:56 PM
Yes, Howard is not as good as he should be. If you couldn't see this coming on 2004 draft day than you're not an NBA fan.
His back to back Defensive player of the year is the most overrated achievement ever.
They guy is the lone shot blocker and double digit rebounder on a team that jacks up 3s.
If he's not getting at least 3 blocks and 12 boards per - it's a fail.
He doesn't play great position defense - doesn't pick up any steals and yet he is the DPOY w/o contest. Sad. Just give it to the guards and forwards please.
How can you be DPOY at Center when you're biggest opponents are Bynum, Lopez and old Shaq?

b/c teams and players who would normally attack the rim dont. teams change their offensive gameplan on his behalf. you can nitpick a lot of dwights game but people, please. he is an elite defender and would have been in any era.

king james
06-05-2010, 02:28 PM
The only I don't agree with Oakley is that he wouldn't be in the league. He would have been a career back-up center.

To tell u the truth all Howard is, is an athelete nothing more. He isn't a basketball player, Everything he does is based of his atheletic ability. He has no touch around the basket and he has bad hands. In that Boston series and other games that I have seen he misses so many of those baby hooks from about 5ft out it ridiculous, and please don't let him have to put the ball on the floor and do that running hook. You might as well wait for the rebound.

I like Howard and the way he uses his athleticism, but he needs to develope a go to move or work more on being consistant with that hook. Cuz the day is going to come when he will lose all of that athleticism or injury may keep him grounded and he won't have nothing to work with. Personally I think that he doesn't have that bad of a form when he shoots his freethrows so maybe with him having on of the best jump shooting big men in the history of the game he could develope a nice 10ft jump shot.

darwin31
06-05-2010, 02:34 PM
People knock on Howard for being just an athlete, I can see that point.

I do know this, he would have killed Bill Cartwright. That is why Oakley is full of it.

DreamShaker
06-05-2010, 02:48 PM
i love bogut and he's closer to d12 than most think, but no. dwight is the most dominant on the league. dwight is LIGHTYEARS, LIGHTYEARS cannot convey enoughLIGHTYEARS ahead of bogut defensively. better one on one, and help-defense doesnt merit a response.

in response to oakley, what a ****. this is coming from a starter who was shorter, less athletic and equally unskilled. unreal.

perhaps he would have been more of an oakley-level player but coming from him of all people what an absurd comment.

Oakley was a totally different player...he wasn't a superstar or even an All-Star...but he was tough and aggressive and mean...which if you put Oakley's mind in Howard's body...or better yet Shaq's mind in Howard's body or even Amare Stoudamire's mind in Howard's body...I think you get my point...Howard has a very weak motor on the offensive end...he needs to watch tapes of Shaq and Hakeem and see how it was done...

SeoulBeatz
06-05-2010, 02:52 PM
Although his statement is ********, Charles Oakley played a physical brand of basketball that Dwight has never witnessed before.

I agree that Dwight wouldnt be nearly as dominant in the 90's even with the athleticism.

Dwight would be SO much better if he could just put some touch on the ball and add post moves to his limited arsenal (that consists of an awkward drifting right hand hook, nothing more)

So yes, i agree with Oakley somewhat, and before you call me crazy... watch this vid

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CmLR_VgbqAA&feature=related


That is what a C is supposed to be. incredible footwork for a guy not nearly athletic as dwight, but much smarter.... MUCH smarter. Dwight is NO WHERE CLOSE to Hakeem.... he has a long way to go and his post moves havent developed much since he came into the league, so he deserves the criticism. LEARN SOME DAMN FOOTWORK DWIGHT....


and if u look back at my posts, im not a dwight hater, he is the best center in the league. but thats not saying much at all with the complete lack of C's right now besides Yao

Hellcrooner
06-05-2010, 02:54 PM
i dont know, Shawn kemp made the league back then and he was bascally the same type of player.

DreamShaker
06-05-2010, 02:57 PM
i dont know, Shawn kemp made the league back then and he was bascally the same type of player.

Kemp was more like Amare than Howard...and the second he stopped playing with GP...he became mediocre...

RadiantShot
06-05-2010, 03:02 PM
Although his statement is ********, Charles Oakley played a physical brand of basketball that Dwight has never witnessed before.

I agree that Dwight wouldnt be nearly as dominant in the 90's even with the athleticism.

Dwight would be SO much better if he could just put some touch on the ball and add post moves to his limited arsenal (that consists of an awkward drifting right hand hook, nothing more)

So yes, i agree with Oakley somewhat, and before you call me crazy... watch this vid

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CmLR_VgbqAA&feature=related


That is what a C is supposed to be. incredible footwork for a guy not nearly athletic as dwight, but much smarter.... MUCH smarter. Dwight is NO WHERE CLOSE to Hakeem.... he has a long way to go and his post moves havent developed much since he came into the league, so he deserves the criticism. LEARN SOME DAMN FOOTWORK DWIGHT....


and if u look back at my posts, im not a dwight hater, he is the best center in the league. but thats not saying much at all with the complete lack of C's right now besides Yao

I disagree. a Center is suppose to be more defensive-oriented, not offensive. The fact that Dwight puts up 18 Points a game, and has put up 20 points a game in his career, is great, for the fact he barely gets any touches. I'm not saying he'd make anything of them, but it sure wouldn't hurt. He'd be scoring 22 a game, if he got his touches. Not only that, but he's working with Hakeem this summer if anyone didn't know. I expect him to come back and prove everyone wrong.

http://www.sportingnews.com/blog/The_Baseline/entry/view/67897/dwight_howard_will_work_out_with_hakeem_olajuwon_t his_summer



“In the next couple of weeks, we will see each other,” Howard said of Olajuwon. “I just can’t wait to go up there. He’s a great guy. He had a lot of great things to say. I’m just looking forward to having the chance to work with him.”

DreamShaker
06-05-2010, 03:02 PM
Although his statement is ********, Charles Oakley played a physical brand of basketball that Dwight has never witnessed before.

I agree that Dwight wouldnt be nearly as dominant in the 90's even with the athleticism.

Dwight would be SO much better if he could just put some touch on the ball and at post moves to his limited arsenal (that consists of an awkward drifting right hand hook, nothing more)

So yes, i agree with Oakley somewhat, and before you call me crazy... watch this vid

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CmLR_VgbqAA&feature=related


That is what a C is supposed to be. incredible footwork for a guy not nearly athletic as dwight, but much smarter.... MUCH smarter. Dwight is NO WHERE CLOSE to Hakeem.... he has a long way to go and his post moves havent developed much since he came into the league, so he deserves the criticism. LEARN SOME DAMN FOOTWORK DWIGHT....


and if u look back at my posts, im not a dwight hater, he is the best center in the league. but thats not saying much at all with the complete lack of C's right now besides Yao

There is a guy who he should work with instead of Ewing...Ewing teaching Howard never made much sense to me...if you look at what Hakeem did for Yao and Kobe with post moves...he could work wonders with Howard...

0nekhmer
06-05-2010, 03:04 PM
i think what Oakley forgets is that D howard is a DEFENSIVE Center. What he said about his offence is partially true but to say he wouldn't make the NBA is a joke

Bruno
06-05-2010, 03:06 PM
Hmmm. Jazz, Knicks, Pacers? They were all incredibly tough every year throughout the decade.


Umm... Jazz, Sonics, Pacers, Cavs, Suns I could go...
Sadly the fact that Bulls dominated so much does not do justice to just how competitive the 90s really were.

The same thing can be said about the 2000's. Dirk and Nash, who've combined for three MVP's were on the same team and could only get to the WCF once together, and they lost to the Spurs. Going by your own logic, the fact that the Lakers and Spurs dominated the 2000s doesn't do justice to how competitive the 2000's were.

In the 90's, four teams won championships (Including the Spurs in '99).
In the 2000's, four teams won championships.

I may have missed some of the teams you guys named above, and thanks for mentioning them (even though I'm ehhh towards the Cavs reference) but for every 90's Pacer/Sonics/Knicks type team who had success but never got a ring, there is a 2000's parallel who accomplished similar feats (Cavs 2007-2010, 2006/2007 Mavericks, 2005/2006 Heat, 2002/2003 NJ Nets, 2000's Suns, early 2000's TrailBlazers, AI's 76ers, ect, ect.)

And for the record the Pacers missed the playoffs once in the 90's and were knocked out in the first round three or four times. They had some great season, but like I said above, there are team in the 2000's who parallell that type of success.

The competition, overall was about the same IMO. That's what I've been getting at. The 90's had some great centers, so in a way Oakley is right about this, but in the 2000's we had dominant PF's (Dirk, Duncan, KG) all MVP's. The game changed to a more European run and gun style in the 2000's. Different competition, but on the same level. I don't know how you can argue otherwise. The 90's is history, it's easy for us to look back on it and praise it. And we should. But the 2000's still to fresh in our minds to give it its true due. It'll happen in time.

RadiantShot
06-05-2010, 03:06 PM
There is a guy who he should work with instead of Ewing...Ewing teaching Howard never made much sense to me...if you look at what Hakeem did for Yao and Kobe with post moves...he could work wonders with Howard...

I agree.
I've been saying that for quite some while in the Magic forum.

DreamShaker
06-05-2010, 03:07 PM
I disagree. a Center is suppose to be more defensive-oriented, not offensive. The fact that Dwight puts up 18 Points a game, and has put up 20 points a game in his career, is great, for the fact he barely gets any touches. I'm not saying he'd make anything of them, but it sure wouldn't hurt. He'd be scoring 22 a game, if he got his touches. Not only that, but he's working with Hakeem this summer if anyone didn't know. I expect him to come back and prove everyone wrong.

http://www.sportingnews.com/blog/The_Baseline/entry/view/67897/dwight_howard_will_work_out_with_hakeem_olajuwon_t his_summer

Oh wow I just read this...I would be really excited as a Magic fan...but who said a Center is only supposed to play defense??? Shaq was not an all-time great defender...but who would you rather of had in their primes...him or Mutombo??? And guys like Hakeem, Robinson, Duncan, and Wilt brought both every night strong as can be...Gasol is doing that with the Lakers now...and they are probably about to win 2 titles in a row...

SeoulBeatz
06-05-2010, 03:07 PM
I disagree. a Center is suppose to be more defensive-oriented, not offensive. The fact that Dwight puts up 18 Points a game, and has put up 20 points a game in his career, is great, for the fact he barely gets any touches. I'm not saying he'd make anything of them, but it sure wouldn't hurt. He'd be scoring 22 a game, if he got his touches. Not only that, but he's working with Hakeem this summer if anyone didn't know. I expect him to come back and prove everyone wrong.

http://www.sportingnews.com/blog/The_Baseline/entry/view/67897/dwight_howard_will_work_out_with_hakeem_olajuwon_t his_summer

good for dwight, it's about damn time. i'll believe it when i see it though, his post moves are unreasonably poor for having that much body coordination and having 5 years in the league and being touted as the best C. That's all im saying.

Dwight dissapears for stretches because of his lack of offensive game. he turned it on during the late stretch of the playoffs but before that his impact wasn't as much as it should've been. But whenever Dwight does a post move i literally cringe because it looks so awkward and forced. maybe because i got spoiled watching hakeem but we'll see.

RadiantShot
06-05-2010, 03:10 PM
Oh wow I just read this...I would be really excited as a Magic fan...but who said a Center is only supposed to play defense??? Shaq was not an all-time great defender...but who would you rather of had in their primes...him or Mutombo??? And guys like Hakeem, Robinson, Duncan, and Wilt brought both every night strong as can be...Gasol is doing that with the Lakers now...and they are probably about to win 2 titles in a row...

Dwight Howard.
Just kidding, but come on, we can't play, "Who would you rather." That's not reasonable right now. What is reasonable, is talking about how Dwight can get better. If people are willing to mark Dwight off after his 6th season in the league, and he's only 24, may I remind everyone. Then go ahead, be my guest. Anyway you look at it, Dwight's done amazing things for this franchise, so I owe it to him to give him a couple more seasons.

ChiSox219
06-05-2010, 03:10 PM
Switch "Dwight Howard" with "Amare Stoudemire" and you have the truth.

Kakaroach
06-05-2010, 03:13 PM
Yes he would be in the league. I would have loved Howard over Ostertag 10 years ago. :laugh2:

bulldog2683
06-05-2010, 03:14 PM
lol @ charles oakley

anarin
06-05-2010, 03:15 PM
I understand where Oakley is coming from.

People rave about how Howard has lead the league in blocks for two straight years, but you know what, they are the second and this lowest averages to league the lead (only Elton Brand had a lower league-leading average). From 87-98 Howard wouldnt have finished higher than 5th in the league in block shots.

Looking at the guys who were playing centers from say 1986-2000, you have to admit that the level of talent in that era would have potentially had Howard coming off the bench. Now Howard is a solid shot blocker and everybody wants one of those, and he is a great rebounder, and everybody wants some of those, so Howard would have been starting in the league in that era I think, but his limited offensive game would have had him sitting behind guys like Mourng, Shaq, Hakeem, Robinson, Ewing, Jabbar, Smits, Laimbeer, Perkins, Daughtery, Sikley, Moses Malone, Sabonis, Vlade Divac, Parish, McHale, Duckworth, Mutumbo. I mean, the league was deep at center in that era, and most of those guys had a great offensive skill set, so yeah, Howard would have had a harder time getting minutes, and playing in that era he would have been a second rate center and not even in the conversation as a top-five center in the league let alone the best center in the league.

I think Oakley is obviously exagerating, but the point of hte matter is really that the center position in the league is SO weak right now, that a guy who wouldnt have even been a top five center in the league between 84-98 is the best center in the league now. Had a team like Utah had him instead of Ostertag or Eaten, then yes, they would have been a much better team, and likely champions, but the game Howard has now would not have held up 10-15 years ago.

That said, Howard is still the best center in the league now and I think Oakley is more or less challenging him to start fulfilling his potential and step his game up, because lets face it, as dominant as Howard is, his passing and offence is in the toilet and if he can be the passer Shaq was, or develop the foot work or range of Hakeem, this guy will be one of the greatest of all time, rather than the great of his generation.

:clap:

and I didnt even have to break a sweat... :D

SeoulBeatz
06-05-2010, 03:15 PM
Dwight Howard.
Just kidding, but come on, we can't play, "Who would you rather." That's not reasonable right now. What is reasonable, is talking about how Dwight can get better. If people are willing to mark Dwight off after his 6th season in the league, and he's only 24, may I remind everyone. Then go ahead, be my guest. Anyway you look at it, Dwight's done amazing things for this franchise, so I owe it to him to give him a couple more seasons.

completely agree, dont get me wrong man, I WAS ROOTING FOR THE MAGIC this playoffs. I hate the Lakers and Celtics.

But i was just frustrated by Dwight dissapearing through stretches because he can't make a consistent impact on the offensive side. And i get that it's not always the C's job to contribute on offense but the GREATEST OF ALL TIME did it on both ends of the court, and they did it damn well. Wilt, Kareem, Hakeem, Shaq.... Dominant on both sides of the ball, all had INCREDIBLE footwork.

Dwight has all the tools to be as good as they are on the offensive side, it's just baffling that it hasn't clicked for him. Hopefully dream can show him the way.

AI4MVP
06-05-2010, 03:17 PM
Dwight Howard is NOT A GOOD BASKETBALL PLAYER AT ALL!! He is a good athlete! Becuz he is a goo athlete and he is big, he is able to block shots and get rebounds! like i said. hes a great great athlete, not a good basketball player. He doesnt not have basketball skills watsoever. Shaq was huge and big too, but the dude had post moves. Thats basketball skills.

Dwight Howard has the potential to be one of the top 10 players of all time. He just needs to train his *** off this summer, call up Hakeem, and get his shot together

RadiantShot
06-05-2010, 03:20 PM
Dwight Howard is NOT A GOOD BASKETBALL PLAYER AT ALL!! He is a good athlete! Becuz he is a goo athlete and he is big, he is able to block shots and get rebounds! like i said. hes a great great athlete, not a good basketball player. He doesnt not have basketball skills watsoever. Shaq was huge and big too, but the dude had post moves. Thats basketball skills.

Dwight Howard has the potential to be one of the top 10 players of all time. He just needs to train his *** off this summer, call up Hakeem, and get his shot together

Get out of here Rubio.

DreamShaker
06-05-2010, 03:21 PM
Dwight Howard.
Just kidding, but come on, we can't play, "Who would you rather." That's not reasonable right now. What is reasonable, is talking about how Dwight can get better. If people are willing to mark Dwight off after his 6th season in the league, and he's only 24, may I remind everyone. Then go ahead, be my guest. Anyway you look at it, Dwight's done amazing things for this franchise, so I owe it to him to give him a couple more seasons.

I agree with you on that. Most big men don't hit their stride until around 27 or 28...and Howard is not a bad player...he's a really good player...just not great or dominating like he should be to this point...I honestly want to see Howard get better every year...and get a guy like Chris Paul to play with...because he's always been stuck with 3rd options masquerading as 2nd options and Jameer Nelson is just not a great fit with Howard...I really like Howard I just see much room for growth...and he's honestly a little behind the curb...

pippsux
06-05-2010, 03:21 PM
Oak speak truth.

RadiantShot
06-05-2010, 03:22 PM
completely agree, dont get me wrong man, I WAS ROOTING FOR THE MAGIC this playoffs. I hate the Lakers and Celtics.

But i was just frustrated by Dwight dissapearing through stretches because he can't make a consistent impact on the offensive side. And i get that it's not always the C's job to contribute on offense but the GREATEST OF ALL TIME did it on both ends of the court, and they did it damn well. Wilt, Kareem, Hakeem, Shaq.... Dominant on both sides of the ball, all had INCREDIBLE footwork.

Dwight has all the tools to be as good as they are on the offensive side, it's just baffling that it hasn't clicked for him. Hopefully dream can show him the way.

I know, but listen. Dwight's 24. He's not done with his career. Let's see if he adjusts, then we can talk. I think we're writing him off so fast, because he's not as dominant as Shaq, nor will he ever be as dominant as Shaq was...He can however, turn into a David Robinson type player. Dwight will continue to do wonders for this team, but we're rushing it so much. Let's just wait. Yes, more waiting.

97NYer
06-05-2010, 03:23 PM
Oak better shut up. If we had Dwight with Ewing and not Oakley we definitely would have won a title in the 90's.

RadiantShot
06-05-2010, 03:23 PM
I agree with you on that. Most big men don't hit their stride until around 27 or 28...and Howard is not a bad player...he's a really good player...just not great or dominating like he should be to this point...I honestly want to see Howard get better every year...and get a guy like Chris Paul to play with...because he's always been stuck with 3rd options masquerading as 2nd options and Jameer Nelson is just not a great fit with Howard...I really like Howard I just see much room for growth...and he's honestly a little behind the curb...

If Dwight played with Wade, there would be Championships for years to come. He hasn't found that man yet. Jameer's his best bud, but he's nowhere close to what's going to win an NBA Title for Dwight. Every man needs their left-handed guy, and Dwight doesn't have that yet.

NaccAttack11
06-05-2010, 03:24 PM
I don't know why you guys keep saying the 90's. 10 years ago it was 2000...

DreamShaker
06-05-2010, 03:25 PM
Dwight Howard is NOT A GOOD BASKETBALL PLAYER AT ALL!! He is a good athlete! Becuz he is a goo athlete and he is big, he is able to block shots and get rebounds! like i said. hes a great great athlete, not a good basketball player. He doesnt not have basketball skills watsoever. Shaq was huge and big too, but the dude had post moves. Thats basketball skills.

Dwight Howard has the potential to be one of the top 10 players of all time. He just needs to train his *** off this summer, call up Hakeem, and get his shot together

By that logic Tyrus Thomas, Stromile Swift, and Gerald Green should call be in the All-Star game every year...but 2/3 of them are out of the league...he's still very productive...just not great...

RadiantShot
06-05-2010, 03:25 PM
I don't know why you guys keep saying the 90's. 10 years ago it was 2000...

:laugh:

ldc62
06-05-2010, 03:25 PM
i still stand by my statement that i would rather have Andrew Bogut then Dwight Howard. Bogut has nearly unstoppable post moves, along with being almost on par with dwight howard defensively. but obvioulsy everyoines going to hate becuz Dwight Howard is black with huge muscles and bogut is a floppy haired aussie

I will agree that Bogut has better moves and a better scorer. But his post moves are not Unstoppable... Also I would take Dwight cuz of D, but its close than some think.

RadiantShot
06-05-2010, 03:26 PM
I will agree that Bogut has better moves and a better scorer. But his post moves are not Unstoppable... Also I would take Dwight cuz of D, but its close than some think.

If you put Dwight on the bucks, they'd get further. I know it's close, like you said, but I'd always pick Dwight, 9 times out of 10.

Put Bogut on the Magic, and we don't get to the Finals last year.

ldc62
06-05-2010, 03:27 PM
By that logic Tyrus Thomas, Stromile Swift, and Gerald Green should call be in the All-Star game every year...but 2/3 of them are out of the league...he's still very productive...just not great...

Well a 7 footer athletic freak that plays a position where not everyone is as athletic may have something to do with that. Swift, Tyrus and Gerald Green play positions where there are people just as athletic.

NaccAttack11
06-05-2010, 03:28 PM
He's not a 7 footer

DreamShaker
06-05-2010, 03:29 PM
If Dwight played with Wade, there would be Championships for years to come. He hasn't found that man yet. Jameer's his best bud, but he's nowhere close to what's going to win an NBA Title for Dwight. Every man needs their left-handed guy, and Dwight doesn't have that yet.

I agree...he and Wade would be perfect...or Paul...or D-Will...

ldc62
06-05-2010, 03:29 PM
Yes, Howard is not as good as he should be. If you couldn't see this coming on 2004 draft day than you're not an NBA fan.
His back to back Defensive player of the year is the most overrated achievement ever.
They guy is the lone shot blocker and double digit rebounder on a team that jacks up 3s.
If he's not getting at least 3 blocks and 12 boards per - it's a fail.
He doesn't play great position defense - doesn't pick up any steals and yet he is the DPOY w/o contest. Sad. Just give it to the guards and forwards please.
How can you be DPOY at Center when you're biggest opponents are Bynum, Lopez and old Shaq?

Thank You.

Last year Battier shoulda won.... or at least give it to someone who can actually stop players at their position and no just get 3 blocks a game (those blocks are usually sent outta bounds which give the opposing team the ball back).

R. Johnson#3
06-05-2010, 03:32 PM
If Oak says it then it's true. Nobody messes with Oak.

AI4MVP
06-05-2010, 03:37 PM
I will agree that Bogut has better moves and a better scorer. But his post moves are not Unstoppable... Also I would take Dwight cuz of D, but its close than some think.

dude becuz i love brandon jennings and watched most of his game, as a result i had to watch Andrew Bogut to. I can honestly tell u he is the best post scorer in the NBA. Its completely unbiased. Im not a bucks fan, im not australian, nothin. Bogut's left handed hook shot is the most unstoppable post move ive seen since Shaq doing watever the **** he wants to do in the post.

Now if Bogut was just a great offensive force and a chump and defense and the boards, then i wouldnt have an arguement at all, but he grabs 10 rebounds a game and hes 2nd in the league in blocks at 2.5(only .3 behind dwight)

RaiderLakersA's
06-05-2010, 03:52 PM
Dwight's problem is that he is too nice to approach the other 4 players on the floor, throttle them and demand the ball on EVERY possession. Run the offense through him. That's the only way that he's going to get better.

And someone mentioned that 10 years ago Dwight would have "killed" in the NBA. A laughable assumption. I'm pretty sure 10 years ago he would have faced Shaq in his prime. Prime Shaq was 300+ pounds, quick-footed, highly adept at the rim and just nasty when he wanted to be. Think: Godzilla (Shaq) vs. All Those Tiny Japanese Tanks (Howard). There would be no debate as to who Superman was 10 years ago. Howard would have converted to PF and stayed there until he retired.

DfanAlways
06-05-2010, 04:11 PM
He would make it, that's a ridiculous comment.

If he meant Dwight wouldn't be as dominant because the bigs back in the day > now I'd understand but not making the team?

He said he'd be on the bench. Thus, he wouldn't make it as a starting center or a legit one at that. And, I agree. Dwight has no post up game for a man with his athletic ability. It's a shame. He can't shoot if he had to. All he does is rebound, block & dunk. In this NBA, that gets you far... but 10 years ago, that would have landed him on the bench as a backup until he got it together, or, he'd just be an average center/pf.

Bruno
06-05-2010, 05:11 PM
Dwight Howard would have been a starter in any era. Name me fifteen 90's centers who are clearly better than Dwight Howard. Even if somebody could (which you can't because there aren't 15)...what about the other 15 teams???

Would Rashard Lewis, Hedo, and injured Jameer Nelson really be able to lead a team to the finals without an extremely good low-post big man? Common people, this is getting crazy.

samham811
06-05-2010, 05:46 PM
Saying Howard would not have been starting in the NBA in any era is downright ingorant and insane. Hes 7 foot with a bigger wingspan and jumps like a shooting guard. Go ahead and let mutumbo or david robinson try to block his shot...he would jump a foot higher than them and slam it down their throats. It doesnt matter if he cant shoot. Rajon Rondo, Jason Kidd? They cant shoot and are great GUARDS! Shaq could never score outside the paint and never made a free throw and is the most dominant center in the modern era. Howard is Shaq but not fat, slow, and stupid. Also, you cant compare the difference in physical shape and condition between the 90s and now. Howard is the epitome of physically fit. Hes faster, stronger, better conditioned, and can jump higher than any center that ever played in the 90s. Prove me wrong...dont worry...ill wait. David Robinson? Mutumbo? Olajuwan? Not even remotely close. Oh yea..wouldnt want to forget about leading the league in blocks and rebounds every year while earning defensive players of the year awards. All of this while leading a team to the finals with previously no name players such as Nelson, Turkoglu, JJ Redick, and Micheal Pietrus. Oakley...you are a ****** Dwight would massacre you. Case Closed

Cromedome
06-05-2010, 05:55 PM
Go ahead and let mutumbo or david robinson try to block his shot...he would jump a foot higher than them and slam it down their throats.


The 90's centers would have eaten this fake superman alive.

FNM BOY
06-05-2010, 06:15 PM
Dwight is too soft..Point Blank Period...if he would learn to get tough and stop smiling all the time on the court he would be alright!!!

RadiantShot
06-05-2010, 06:20 PM
Dwight is too soft..Point Blank Period...if he would learn to get tough and stop smiling all the time on the court he would be alright!!!

Dwight was on NBATV, and was talking about people always criticize him because he smiles all the time. He said God made people with a smile, and he's happy he get's to play in the NBA every-day. He said just because he's smiling doesn't mean he's focused. I guess for you to be 'hard' or 'tough' you have to put on a fake face, and bang your head against a basketball hoop-post, like Kevin Garnett. Am I right, or am I right?

When he's smiling, he's 'not focused,' or 'soft.'
When he's throwing hard fouls, and banging, he's called, 'dirty.'

Please tell me what the hell Dwight Howard should do. I'm all ears.

Cracka2HI!
06-05-2010, 07:28 PM
LOL! When I saw the bows Dwight was throwing the Boston series I thought someone needs to sign Oak to show this fool whats up!!

BigAl25
06-05-2010, 08:07 PM
who's charles oakley?

fadedmario
06-05-2010, 08:12 PM
10 years ago Shawn Bradley started as center in the NBA.... Shawn..... Bradley.... I think Dwight Howard is a little better than Shawn Bradley... Most ridiculous comment ever.

This sums it up. Oakley should just go away. Nobody cares about him.

ldc62
06-05-2010, 08:15 PM
He's not a 7 footer

O we got a smart ***.... sorry hes 6 11 with shoes

JordansBulls
06-05-2010, 08:24 PM
who's charles oakley?

Played for the Knicks.

SeoulBeatz
06-05-2010, 08:46 PM
Dwight was on NBATV, and was talking about people always criticize him because he smiles all the time. He said God made people with a smile, and he's happy he get's to play in the NBA every-day. He said just because he's smiling doesn't mean he's focused. I guess for you to be 'hard' or 'tough' you have to put on a fake face, and bang your head against a basketball hoop-post, like Kevin Garnett. Am I right, or am I right?

When he's smiling, he's 'not focused,' or 'soft.'
When he's throwing hard fouls, and banging, he's called, 'dirty.'

Please tell me what the hell Dwight Howard should do. I'm all ears.

yeah im gonna have to agree that the smiling complaint is ridiculous.

just because he smiles doesnt mean he isnt taking the game seriously.

what I DO find annoying is Kobe sticking his jaw out to look tough... you know he definitely took the time and thought about "hmmm whats gonna make me look intimidating when i got on a hot streak? ah i know ill stick my jaw out and look like a ******".

the only look that i do think was authentic was Jordan sticking his tongue out when he went up in the air. That seemed natural and was his signature look. nothing can beat that. just plain awesome in the goofiest way.... everything else nowadays seems so forced.


i did like KG and the powder toss until lebron blatantly stole it

Lakersho
06-05-2010, 08:52 PM
I understand where Oakley is coming from.

People rave about how Howard has lead the league in blocks for two straight years, but you know what, they are the second and this lowest averages to league the lead (only Elton Brand had a lower league-leading average). From 87-98 Howard wouldnt have finished higher than 5th in the league in block shots.

Looking at the guys who were playing centers from say 1986-2000, you have to admit that the level of talent in that era would have potentially had Howard coming off the bench. Now Howard is a solid shot blocker and everybody wants one of those, and he is a great rebounder, and everybody wants some of those, so Howard would have been starting in the league in that era I think, but his limited offensive game would have had him sitting behind guys like Mourng, Shaq, Hakeem, Robinson, Ewing, Jabbar, Smits, Laimbeer, Perkins, Daughtery, Sikley, Moses Malone, Sabonis, Vlade Divac, Parish, McHale, Duckworth, Mutumbo. I mean, the league was deep at center in that era, and most of those guys had a great offensive skill set, so yeah, Howard would have had a harder time getting minutes, and playing in that era he would have been a second rate center and not even in the conversation as a top-five center in the league let alone the best center in the league.

I think Oakley is obviously exagerating, but the point of hte matter is really that the center position in the league is SO weak right now, that a guy who wouldnt have even been a top five center in the league between 84-98 is the best center in the league now. Had a team like Utah had him instead of Ostertag or Eaten, then yes, they would have been a much better team, and likely champions, but the game Howard has now would not have held up 10-15 years ago.

That said, Howard is still the best center in the league now and I think Oakley is more or less challenging him to start fulfilling his potential and step his game up, because lets face it, as dominant as Howard is, his passing and offence is in the toilet and if he can be the passer Shaq was, or develop the foot work or range of Hakeem, this guy will be one of the greatest of all time, rather than the great of his generation. your spot on ,Ithink oakley is tryin to light a fire in howard,his off. needs alot. It might be a bskt.bll I.Q problem, he just might be slow to learn, potentials great, brains maybe needed? that said , howard IS a damb good player, some just take longer...

SLY WILLIAMS
06-05-2010, 09:16 PM
Oak tends to mumble a bit at times. Sometimes I have not understood what he was saying completely when interviewed at Knicks games. Is it possible a word or 2 came after or before league? Like league all star team or all league team? I ask also because if he wouldnt make the league why say he would be on the bench? Dont you have to make the league to be on the bench?

SLY WILLIAMS
06-05-2010, 09:20 PM
I think Dwight is a major force in the NBA. I dont think he is as good as a guy like David Robinson yet but he is one of if not the best center in the NBA today. Its not Dwight's fault the NBA has gotten pretty soft.

cmellofan15
06-05-2010, 09:29 PM
of course he wouldn't have made it, he was only 14.

knickfan4life
06-05-2010, 09:39 PM
Charles Oakley wouldn't make the NBA today.

lol charles oakley in his prime, is one of the best centers in the NBA today both offensively and defensively, since all the centers besides yao, bynum, lopez, shaq and ilgauskas are pretty much PF's anyways... he could sprread the floor and would drive dwight and amare crazy on the defensive end... he would toy with guys like kendrick perkins lol

Vee-Rex
06-05-2010, 09:39 PM
I understand where Oakley is coming from.

People rave about how Howard has lead the league in blocks for two straight years, but you know what, they are the second and this lowest averages to league the lead (only Elton Brand had a lower league-leading average). From 87-98 Howard wouldnt have finished higher than 5th in the league in block shots.

Looking at the guys who were playing centers from say 1986-2000, you have to admit that the level of talent in that era would have potentially had Howard coming off the bench. Now Howard is a solid shot blocker and everybody wants one of those, and he is a great rebounder, and everybody wants some of those, so Howard would have been starting in the league in that era I think, but his limited offensive game would have had him sitting behind guys like Mourng, Shaq, Hakeem, Robinson, Ewing, Jabbar, Smits, Laimbeer, Perkins, Daughtery, Sikley, Moses Malone, Sabonis, Vlade Divac, Parish, McHale, Duckworth, Mutumbo. I mean, the league was deep at center in that era, and most of those guys had a great offensive skill set, so yeah, Howard would have had a harder time getting minutes, and playing in that era he would have been a second rate center and not even in the conversation as a top-five center in the league let alone the best center in the league.

I think Oakley is obviously exagerating, but the point of hte matter is really that the center position in the league is SO weak right now, that a guy who wouldnt have even been a top five center in the league between 84-98 is the best center in the league now. Had a team like Utah had him instead of Ostertag or Eaten, then yes, they would have been a much better team, and likely champions, but the game Howard has now would not have held up 10-15 years ago.

That said, Howard is still the best center in the league now and I think Oakley is more or less challenging him to start fulfilling his potential and step his game up, because lets face it, as dominant as Howard is, his passing and offence is in the toilet and if he can be the passer Shaq was, or develop the foot work or range of Hakeem, this guy will be one of the greatest of all time, rather than the great of his generation.

Best post in this thread. Howard has the potential to be one of the greatest centers of all time, but it's not gonna come to him. He gotta grab it.

Yes, he's only 24. But it's the ripe age to show improvement on his offensive game, and as Mark Jackson was stating he just isn't showing improvement. As an example, Lebron (at his position) is far more advanced in his game than Dwight is as a center.

tmacsc2
06-05-2010, 09:47 PM
guess what its not 2000!Its 2010!

Showmeyourtds
06-05-2010, 10:06 PM
Oakley is a fool

ink
06-05-2010, 10:09 PM
Looks likes somebody (Oakley) needs attention.

smith&wesson
06-05-2010, 10:10 PM
Oakley's *** wouldn't make the NBA today before Dwight would back then.

Straight up dumbass.

you talking about sir charles barkley ? because he was the man! date back to when he was on phi & phx, his battles with bill lambeer, jordan ect..

barkley was dope man,


and he is wrong about dwight. howard is a beast!! i agree with you there!

leoncito
06-05-2010, 10:13 PM
Oakleys is a Moron

DreamShaker
06-06-2010, 03:30 AM
Saying Howard would not have been starting in the NBA in any era is downright ingorant and insane. Hes 7 foot with a bigger wingspan and jumps like a shooting guard. Go ahead and let mutumbo or david robinson try to block his shot...he would jump a foot higher than them and slam it down their throats.

Dude I remember him not doing so hot against Mutombo a few years back when he was old.

nearyG
06-06-2010, 03:56 AM
big oak might be outspoken and say some crazy **** sometimes...but lets not downgrade him as a player...he is one of the toughest basketball players of all time and trust me...he could play with the boys of his today...his game was doing the dirty work...one of those intangibles that a lot of teams of this era just dont have..

rhino17
06-06-2010, 03:57 AM
I think Oakley is speaking more about the 90s than anything else, if so, I couldn't agree with him more. Dwight would get destroyed by the like of Dream, Admiral, Young Shaq, prime Deke, Ewing, healthy ZO etc. Going against great center competition every night would tear Howard apart. Right now, Howard only has to play one other truley elite center in Yao who kicks his *** every time. Imagine what an era with 7-8 center better than Yao would do to him

BlondeBomber41
06-06-2010, 04:45 AM
10 years ago Shawn Bradley started as center in the NBA.... Shawn..... Bradley.... I think Dwight Howard is a little better than Shawn Bradley... Most ridiculous comment ever.

As a Mavs fan and a avid Shawn Bradley fan this is the first thing I thought of when I read the thread title. I mean seriously, think of some of the great centers who were key starters roughly ten years ago.

Shawn Bradley
Todd Macculloch
Travis Knight
Raef Lafrentz
Antonio Davis (washed up version)
Dale Davis (washed up version)
Ervin Johnson

and I could probably list 10 more.

magichatnumber9
06-06-2010, 07:45 AM
Everyones response makes me laugh. Dwight is a direct reflection of this joke of a generation coming up. Y'all can't ****in listen hahaha

netsgiantsyanks
06-06-2010, 08:39 AM
your spot on ,Ithink oakley is tryin to light a fire in howard,his off. needs alot. It might be a bskt.bll I.Q problem, he just might be slow to learn, potentials great, brains maybe needed? that said , howard IS a damb good player, some just take longer...

your sig is messed up :laugh2:

MK-E-MK
06-06-2010, 08:49 AM
Isn't that an insult to the work Ewing has put in with Howard?

rapjuicer06
06-06-2010, 11:16 AM
I think Oakley is speaking more about the 90s than anything else, if so, I couldn't agree with him more. Dwight would get destroyed by the like of Dream, Admiral, Young Shaq, prime Deke, Ewing, healthy ZO etc. Going against great center competition every night would tear Howard apart. Right now, Howard only has to play one other truley elite center in Yao who kicks his *** every time. Imagine what an era with 7-8 center better than Yao would do to him

so back when they let the centers bang down low and didnt call them for tickytact fouls???? yea, howard would be allowed to touch a guy and not get called for a foul

ldc62
06-06-2010, 11:18 AM
This is hilarious... some of you said "Who cares what Oakley says". Clearly you do or there wouldn't be 10 pages...

mshan5
06-06-2010, 11:32 AM
If Charles Oakley had Dwight Howard's size, he'd have been the scariest defender/most dominant rebounder in history.

rhino17
06-06-2010, 11:41 AM
so back when they let the centers bang down low and didnt call them for tickytact fouls???? yea, howard would be allowed to touch a guy and not get called for a foul

Howard wouldn't be able to defend anyone back then

FNM BOY
06-06-2010, 11:42 AM
Dwight was on NBATV, and was talking about people always criticize him because he smiles all the time. He said God made people with a smile, and he's happy he get's to play in the NBA every-day. He said just because he's smiling doesn't mean he's focused. I guess for you to be 'hard' or 'tough' you have to put on a fake face, and bang your head against a basketball hoop-post, like Kevin Garnett. Am I right, or am I right?
When he's smiling, he's 'not focused,' or 'soft.'
When he's throwing hard fouls, and banging, he's called, 'dirty.'

Please tell me what the hell Dwight Howard should do. I'm all ears.

hahahah I feel ya playa...but at least Garnett has something to show for it...like a ring and taking you guys chances away from getting one...The Magic really disappointed me this go around...hahahah you guys are loaded with talent but didnt show up...really thought this would be your year...well anyway may be next year

Heatcheck
06-06-2010, 12:15 PM
i saw a game this post season where dwight missed a hook layup, when you slow it down, u can see him looking at his hand in mid air. that alon showed me he sucks ball, has never been able to improve the technical side of his game. HE IS ABSOLUTELY ONE DIMENSIONAL

Eagles4Lyfe
06-06-2010, 12:30 PM
mark jackson said it properly last summer after the cavs got eliminated lebron was criticized for not having a jumper he went into the summer worked on his jumper and came back strong..Magic got eliminated and people said howard needs to have a better post game and work on his offence, he came back with the same moves nothing new and still needs to develope those things..Is what mark jackson said not right?? Why would he not learn from his weakness and work on developing a good post game and hell be unstoppable, if anything hes stopping his team from being amazing..

TopsyTurvy
06-06-2010, 12:31 PM
I agree with Oakley that Dwight would look like a player out of position 10 years ago. He would be facing better bigs night in and night out and his game lacks too much to be anything but a yeoman at the 4 spot. While I'm sure Dwight would start at the 5 spot for some team 10 years ago, there's no way he would be the dominant force he is today.

The Jokemaker
06-06-2010, 12:33 PM
Of course he wouldn't have made the league 10 years ago. First off you have to be at least 18 10 years ago to be in the draft and he was only what, 14 then? Even if he could have gotten in the draft, no 14 year old is going to make it in the NBA. What a dumb comment.

The Final Boss
06-06-2010, 12:57 PM
I agree with him.

Howard is a glorified 6th Man.

RadiantShot
06-06-2010, 01:06 PM
If Charles Oakley had Dwight Howard's size, he'd have been the scariest defender/most dominant rebounder in history.

If Kobe Bryant had Devin Harris' quickness, and LeBron James' athleticism, he'd be the best to ever touch the game of Basketball.

JNA17
06-06-2010, 01:09 PM
If he meant that Dwight would not be as good 10 years ago, then yes i agree, but would not even make a team or bench player? GTFO

JNA17
06-06-2010, 01:12 PM
If Kobe Bryant had Devin Harris' quickness, and LeBron James' athleticism, he'd be the best to ever touch the game of Basketball.

Kobe is already quicker then devin remember? ;) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PCzpWi3r9dI

If you mean lebron's god given body, then i agree.

RadiantShot
06-06-2010, 01:13 PM
;)

Eagles4Lyfe
06-06-2010, 01:34 PM
kobe is mre athlethic then lebron:S

RadiantShot
06-06-2010, 01:40 PM
No he's not. Stop.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xMAchz39oOI&feature=fvst
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6MvxctgWwzE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bS8zICklHXQ

FNM BOY
06-06-2010, 01:45 PM
kobe is mre athlethic then lebron:S

Stay off the drugs...u gatta be sick in your head...LMFAO!!!! When I see clips of Kobe coming from behind and blocking shots into the stands or having nearly a triple double almost every game then holla back..Kobe may be a better scorer/shooter but thats it playa. Lebron is the better athlete and all around player.

spoonhoops
06-06-2010, 02:03 PM
A dumb statement, but Ewing could have said something to Oakley to the effect that Dwight isnt listening and trying to do his own thing on his offensive game with no success. etc, etc, etc

THE MTL
06-06-2010, 02:14 PM
Charles Oakley makes lot of this bogus statements. But the level of talent in the center position back in the 90s was ELITE. Guys like Ewing, Shaq, Mutumbo, Hakeem, etc. I believe Dwight Howard would still be pretty good, however he would not be this ELITE player that everyone makes him out to be now-a-days.

RadiantShot
06-06-2010, 02:14 PM
I don't even think Dwight 'isn't listening' to Ewing. I think he's listening, but Ewing isn't what's working for Dwight. I don't know where everyone came up with the assumption that Dwight hasn't been listening to Ewing. Never been stated, by Ewing, nor Dwight.

surf and turf
06-06-2010, 02:18 PM
I do not agree with him at all. He would have been a above average player in any era. He just shouldnt be the offensive focal point back then , or now. If he were a number 2 option, on the weak side it would open up so much for him including offensive rebounds, ally oops, backdoor dunks, just about everything that favors what he does best.

JordansBulls
06-06-2010, 05:04 PM
Charles Oakley makes lot of this bogus statements. But the level of talent in the center position back in the 90s was ELITE. Guys like Ewing, Shaq, Mutumbo, Hakeem, etc. I believe Dwight Howard would still be pretty good, however he would not be this ELITE player that everyone makes him out to be now-a-days.

Dwight Howard would be at least same level as Alonzo Mourning in the 90's.

Bruno
06-06-2010, 05:04 PM
Dwight Howard would be at least same level as Alonzo Mourning in the 90's.

Agreed.

Cromedome
06-06-2010, 05:22 PM
Dwight Howard would be at least same level as Alonzo Mourning in the 90's.

Not by a longshot. Alonzo had a jumper and post moves.

Bruno
06-06-2010, 05:54 PM
Not by a longshot. Alonzo had a jumper and post moves.

That's true, but in terms of overall production Dwight is ahead of Alonzos curve.

Dwight at 23: 25.4 PER
Dwight at 24: 24.0 PER

Zo at 23: 21.7 PER
Zo at 24: 20.1 PER

Zos most productive year came in 99-2000 when he posted a PER of 25.8 at age 29. Howard has time to work on those post moves, and if he can develop that aspect of his game there's no reason his PPG can't go up to 24- 25 per game. If he did that he'd come closer to the 30 range (regarding PER, since he's been at about 24-25 in PER) with "no post moves" over the past two years.

ManningToTyree
06-06-2010, 05:57 PM
i understand where oakley is coming from.

People rave about how howard has lead the league in blocks for two straight years, but you know what, they are the second and this lowest averages to league the lead (only elton brand had a lower league-leading average). From 87-98 howard wouldnt have finished higher than 5th in the league in block shots.

Looking at the guys who were playing centers from say 1986-2000, you have to admit that the level of talent in that era would have potentially had howard coming off the bench. Now howard is a solid shot blocker and everybody wants one of those, and he is a great rebounder, and everybody wants some of those, so howard would have been starting in the league in that era i think, but his limited offensive game would have had him sitting behind guys like mourng, shaq, hakeem, robinson, ewing, jabbar, smits, laimbeer, perkins, daughtery, sikley, moses malone, sabonis, vlade divac, parish, mchale, duckworth, mutumbo. I mean, the league was deep at center in that era, and most of those guys had a great offensive skill set, so yeah, howard would have had a harder time getting minutes, and playing in that era he would have been a second rate center and not even in the conversation as a top-five center in the league let alone the best center in the league.

I think oakley is obviously exagerating, but the point of hte matter is really that the center position in the league is so weak right now, that a guy who wouldnt have even been a top five center in the league between 84-98 is the best center in the league now. Had a team like utah had him instead of ostertag or eaten, then yes, they would have been a much better team, and likely champions, but the game howard has now would not have held up 10-15 years ago.

That said, howard is still the best center in the league now and i think oakley is more or less challenging him to start fulfilling his potential and step his game up, because lets face it, as dominant as howard is, his passing and offence is in the toilet and if he can be the passer shaq was, or develop the foot work or range of hakeem, this guy will be one of the greatest of all time, rather than the great of his generation.

this.

Mplsman
06-06-2010, 05:57 PM
Dwight is a genetic freak. There were rarely guys his size and athletic even in the 90s.

junion
06-06-2010, 05:58 PM
..just another one of those guys who try to make the point that their era of basketball is better than today's era.

face it, the game has evolved - whether you liked it before or now, it doesn't matter because the game has changed.

of course d.howard would make the team - and be a starter. d.howard's specialty is defense, and since every player has their downside - for d.howard it's his away from the basket offense. he's great on D and not as good as other players on offense. that's it.

this guy.. psh.

redsox0717
06-06-2010, 06:02 PM
Dwight is the worst "superstar" ever

Mplsman
06-06-2010, 06:07 PM
..just another one of those guys who try to make the point that their era of basketball is better than today's era.

face it, the game has evolved - whether you liked it before or now, it doesn't matter because the game has changed.

of course d.howard would make the team - and be a starter. d.howard's specialty is defense, and since every player has their downside - for d.howard it's his away from the basket offense. he's great on D and not as good as other players on offense. that's it.

this guy.. psh.

Truth.

Cromedome
06-06-2010, 06:17 PM
..just another one of those guys who try to make the point that their era of basketball is better than today's era.
.

Oakley has a point. The NBA is pretty soft right now...and that's the truth.

Bruno
06-06-2010, 06:23 PM
I understand where Oakley is coming from.

People rave about how Howard has lead the league in blocks for two straight years, but you know what, they are the second and this lowest averages to league the lead (only Elton Brand had a lower league-leading average). From 87-98 Howard wouldnt have finished higher than 5th in the league in block shots.

Looking at the guys who were playing centers from say 1986-2000, you have to admit that the level of talent in that era would have potentially had Howard coming off the bench. Now Howard is a solid shot blocker and everybody wants one of those, and he is a great rebounder, and everybody wants some of those, so Howard would have been starting in the league in that era I think, but his limited offensive game would have had him sitting behind guys like Mourng, Shaq, Hakeem, Robinson, Ewing, Jabbar, Smits, Laimbeer, Perkins, Daughtery, Sikley, Moses Malone, Sabonis, Vlade Divac, Parish, McHale, Duckworth, Mutumbo. I mean, the league was deep at center in that era, and most of those guys had a great offensive skill set, so yeah, Howard would have had a harder time getting minutes, and playing in that era he would have been a second rate center and not even in the conversation as a top-five center in the league let alone the best center in the league.

I think Oakley is obviously exagerating, but the point of hte matter is really that the center position in the league is SO weak right now, that a guy who wouldnt have even been a top five center in the league between 84-98 is the best center in the league now. Had a team like Utah had him instead of Ostertag or Eaten, then yes, they would have been a much better team, and likely champions, but the game Howard has now would not have held up 10-15 years ago.

That said, Howard is still the best center in the league now and I think Oakley is more or less challenging him to start fulfilling his potential and step his game up, because lets face it, as dominant as Howard is, his passing and offence is in the toilet and if he can be the passer Shaq was, or develop the foot work or range of Hakeem, this guy will be one of the greatest of all time, rather than the great of his generation.

A lot of people have liked this post. And I agree with this post, and think your logic is right on. My only complaint is how lengthy your list of "players who Dwight would have been sitting behind" is.

I think only about half the players on that list are clearly better than Dwight Howard. I mean, Sabonis, Smits, Divac, Duckworth, Laimbeer all would have been punished by Howards strength and athleticism, IMO. I think Howard has the rare athleticism to chase out the European style shooters, and to keep anything they try in the post in series check. Duckworths career numbres are no where close to what Howard has done. Laimbeer was a bad boy, but his numbers don't touch Howards. Howard also would have punished Perkins, IMO. You also named KAJ and Parish, players who in their primes were better than Howard, but were too old by the late 80's to have been better than 24 year old Howard. Just my opinion, man.

effen5
06-06-2010, 06:26 PM
Oakley has a point. The NBA is pretty soft right now...and that's the truth.

x10000000000000000000000000

Bruno
06-06-2010, 06:29 PM
Oakley has a point. The NBA is pretty soft right now...and that's the truth.

Softer for sure. But a lot of that has to do with the people who run he league, not the players themselves.

It's softer, but the big men have become much more skilled as outside shooters. In the 80's and early 90's they were tougher, and had better post moves- but they weren't hitting 3's or spreading the floor.

The game has changed to a faster, more european style, and thus the bigs have had to change as well. It's a different game.

MacFitz92
06-06-2010, 06:32 PM
Bias much?

DenButsu
06-06-2010, 08:03 PM
Link (http://sportsradiointerviews.com/2010/06/04/charles-oakley-on-his-friend-lebron-i-cant-tell-him-to-go-to-new-york-new-york-treated-me-bad/)

I love Oakley, but this is just ridiculous. Sure, Dwight may fall short of expectations in some ways, but those expectations are set very, very high. To say he wouldn't even start in the NBA 10 years ago (or 20, or 30) is just plain foolish.

RipVW
06-06-2010, 08:12 PM
Softer for sure. But a lot of that has to do with the people who run he league, not the players themselves.

It's softer, but the big men have become much more skilled as outside shooters. In the 80's and early 90's they were tougher, and had better post moves- but they weren't hitting 3's or spreading the floor.

The game has changed to a faster, more european style, and thus the bigs have had to change as well. It's a different game.

This.

Oakley is exaggerating but theres a lot of truth to it. It was far more rugged in the 80s and 90s, especially the 90s. Howard probably wouldnt be as stalwart in the trenches for that reason. And his offense would have likely taken a big hit.

And with the change Bruno mentions, there are also more long rebounds due to more 3 shooting. So, its also become more important for big men to be able to track down a long rebound. So a little physicality is lost for that reason as well.

rapjuicer06
06-07-2010, 12:10 AM
you guys do realize dwight is more athletic and stronger than a lot of the guys in the 90's. its stupid to say a guy with his build, and athleticness and strength couldn't bang down low. he would welcome that with open arms. he'd be able to post up on someone with out a stupid *** flop and then getting called for the foul.

aka

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HjsFu882zks

what the hell is he supposed to do when everyone does that to him? how's he supposed to "bang" down low when everyone flops on him?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GS5mIncSQf4&feature=related

back when they could actually bang

PrettyBoyJ
06-07-2010, 12:37 AM
I hate when old players try and compare current players and how they would fare in their era.. I dont think it occurred to him He wouldnt so average himself (cuz he had an average career).. The game changed players are more athletic and honestly I dont think he wud keep up.. Dwight isnt a traditional center because the game is more about athleticism more then post dominance like a few decades ago.. If you look in the league now there arent that many dominant centers besides dwight.. I think they to worried about making him turn into an oldschool center then appreciating what he has to offer

JayW_1023
06-07-2010, 06:54 AM
I agree to an extent with Oakley actually. In a league with Hakeem, Ewing, Shaq, Zo, Robinson and Mutombo...Howard as he is today would have been an average center.

Defensively, Boston proved how overrated he is. Dwight frequently sacrificed good position to get blocks. He's a great athlete but he is one of the lowest BB IQ's i've ever seen from a franchise player.

Daze9900
06-07-2010, 07:18 AM
+1 to anyone who realized what Oakley was saying about the league being soft. I'd like to switch this thread around a bit and deflect the attention to a big man who should be criticised. Andrew Bynum would not be starting 10 years ago. Career 10 points and 6 rebounds and he is now on the verge of superstardom? Come on NBA fans.

phi2134
06-07-2010, 08:19 AM
This is a favorite's league. The only reason Dwight get so much love is because he is a good defender and thats it. He is not a leader, he is not a go to guy. He may be able to change the game on the Defensive end, but he is not going to win games out there just by being on the court. Dwight is built on hype and his ability to block shots. If Dikimbe Mutumbo was Dwight's age right now in the NBA, he would be consider the best that ever played the game probably, all because of illegitimate hype.

NYKstateOFmind
06-07-2010, 08:23 AM
Howard does have alot of hype and i think he should demand the ball way more. Hes way to passive sometimes. He has the potential to be one of the best though but he gotta stop be so soft and stupid with all those silly fouls. KG punched the hell out of him twice and all he could do was clap

J-Relo
06-07-2010, 08:45 AM
What he said is that Howard is overrated, there is no doubt he would have been recognised ten or twenty years ago

Hawkeye15
06-07-2010, 09:23 AM
well, he has a point that Howard would not have been considered an elite center at the time, there were a ton of terrific centers,, and we have entered the era of minimal to no centers.
Oakley wouldn't have made the league most likely, since you can't play physical and be a man anymore, and that was pretty much his skill

69centers
06-07-2010, 09:50 AM
Oakley >>>>>>> Howard *

If Oakley were anchoring the Magic these past few years, he would have 3 rings right now.*

_____

*Above is 100% utter crap.

NYKstateOFmind
06-07-2010, 09:51 AM
Man howard is overated he plays like a big dumb kid half the time. Anyone his size can catch a alley opp! woopie dooo. Hes not even a leader on his team.

Double_R
06-07-2010, 10:22 AM
Charles Oakley wouldn't make the NBA today.

hahaha exactly... Don't talk if you aren't worth talking about yourself

Double_R
06-07-2010, 10:32 AM
This is a favorite's league. The only reason Dwight get so much love is because he is a good defender and thats it. He is not a leader, he is not a go to guy. He may be able to change the game on the Defensive end, but he is not going to win games out there just by being on the court. Dwight is built on hype and his ability to block shots. If Dikimbe Mutumbo was Dwight's age right now in the NBA, he would be consider the best that ever played the game probably, all because of illegitimate hype.

This statement makes no sense... watch a magic game

That is why the Magic were the number 1 team in opp fg% and points allowed in the paint... he changes team's entire offensive game plans. period... Forget about his offense, let's just talk about what he does by being on the court on offense, every one of his teammates gets more open shots(hence all the 3s and open jumpers), all the offensive rebounds = more possessions, all the screens he set usually work... not to mention that his team has been one of the more dominant ones since he has been there... go join another forum where they welcome retards

mavwar53
06-07-2010, 10:43 AM
the statement is a little crazy, but truthfully a lot of guys not just Howard are too nice, ya its a game but it is also a business. too much smiling and buddy-buddy stuff out on the court. Main reason for this is Free Agency, no one is faithful to their team anymore except Kobe and Pierce, so you never know who your gonna be playing with. In all seriousness, if Oakley played against dwight, Dwight would have trouble oakley would likely kick his *****

rapjuicer06
06-07-2010, 11:08 AM
the statement is a little crazy, but truthfully a lot of guys not just Howard are too nice, ya its a game but it is also a business. too much smiling and buddy-buddy stuff out on the court. Main reason for this is Free Agency, no one is faithful to their team anymore except Kobe and Pierce, so you never know who your gonna be playing with. In all seriousness, if Oakley played against dwight, Dwight would have trouble oakley would likely kick his *****

that last statement is completely wrong. oakley was ok because he was very very physical. he'd be fouled out of a game in the first half if he went up against dwight. this league is soft...thats what makes dwight soft

WestCoastSportz
06-07-2010, 12:15 PM
Dwight Howard is on the top of my overrated list. He's good character that is young at heart and thats appealing to fans. From a basketball standpoint, he leaves a lot to be desired. What he has going for him is unworldy athleticism to go with his size. He lacks any kind of offensive game. His go to move is the running hook shot in the lane and even that looks mechanical and looks like he's just throwing the ball up in hopes of it going in. 80% of his points come off dunks. This and the fact that he is a blackhole (1 assists per game for his career and 1.5 a game this past season) doesn't spell good news for the Magic. He's also not a guy you'd want in there at crunch time where opposing teams can just foul him and put him on the line where he's a 60% free throw shooter. He's not a tough defender like Ben Wallace was while he was in Detroit either.

The good news is...he's still only 24 years old (25 in December) so he has plenty of time to develop some kind of offensive arsenal, but he does have to listen to guys like Patrik Ewing and his coaches.

But right now, is he worth $17M a year? Umm...no.

C_Mund
06-07-2010, 12:23 PM
Dwight Howard is on the top of my overrated list. He's good character that is young at heart and thats appealing to fans. From a basketball standpoint, he leaves a lot to be desired. What he has going for him is unworldy athleticism to go with his size. He lacks any kind of offensive game. His go to move is the running hook shot in the lane and even that looks mechanical and looks like he's just throwing the ball up in hopes of it going in. 80% of his points come off dunks. This and the fact that he is a blackhole (1 assists per game for his career and 1.5 a game this past season) doesn't spell good news for the Magic. He's also not a guy you'd want in there at crunch time where opposing teams can just foul him and put him on the line where he's a 60% free throw shooter. He's not a tough defender like Ben Wallace was while he was in Detroit either.

The good news is...he's still only 24 years old (25 in December) so he has plenty of time to develop some kind of offensive arsenal, but he does have to listen to guys like Patrik Ewing and his coaches.

But right now, is he worth $17M a year? Umm...no.

Bang on, dude. Howard is a phenominal player, but he's not a max player because he still needs to be paired with a pure scorer to be effective. He's still elite in the NBA, and he'll probably win a 'chip at some point as the focus of his team's defence, but that doesn't mean he's a franchise player.

RadiantShot
06-07-2010, 12:26 PM
Some of these comments make me :facepalm:
Who was it? Phil Jackson, or Larry Brown, that said they'd take Dwight Howard over LeBron James?

Apparently some of the people in this thread are high.

"Not good enough for a max contract."

Haha.

sep11ie
06-07-2010, 12:45 PM
He contridicted himself by saying, "he wouldn't of made the league, he'd be on the bench.".

Blackjack24
06-07-2010, 01:16 PM
Oakley's an idiot for exaggerating what might have been an interesting point. Clearly Howard would have made the league and started-- but would he have been good in an era where everyone was more physical and nasty? Who knows?

Raph12
06-07-2010, 01:49 PM
Oakley's a ******, if I go back to the late 90s and early 00s the only centers better than Dwight were; Hakeem, Shaq, Robinson, Ewing, arguably Mourning and a few select others I might be missing.

Oakley's just upset that he's already been forgotten.

sventhedog
06-08-2010, 07:56 AM
Also- what's with all these 90's era players acting as if the 1990's was the most competitive era in league history? It's ridiculous.

EDIT: I recognize some amazing centers played in the 90's.

human nature. 20 years from now, players of today will be bragging that their era was the best. it's a matter of making yourself feel better. that's the only thing he can do. what do you expect oakley to do? sign with an NBA team and prove he's great at his age?

superabound
06-08-2010, 08:11 AM
Howard plays soft, the whole league plays soft - if you even look at someone the wrong way, it is a foul. The NBA is becoming a joke. It is pathetic that so-called NBA stars can't make a free throw. Nobody practices hard anymore.

phi2134
06-08-2010, 08:46 AM
[QUOTE=Double_R;13575268]This statement makes no sense... watch a magic game

That is why the Magic were the number 1 team in opp fg% and points allowed in the paint... he changes team's entire offensive game plans. period... Forget about his offense, let's just talk about what he does by being on the court on offense, every one of his teammates gets more open shots(hence all the 3s and open jumpers), all the offensive rebounds = more possessions, all the screens he set usually work... not to mention that his team has been one of the more dominant ones since he has been there... go join another forum where they welcome retards[/QUOTE

If Dwight changes the game on offense so much, why doesn't he score more, why doesn't he average 30 ppg? Apparently Lebron doesn't have a problem scoring because of his dominance on offense and how much teams try to compensate for him....Dwight sits around the hoop waiting for alleyoops , doesnt have a jumper and will never average more than 20 ppg. Give it up, Dwight is an overhyped nice guy who can throw down some pretty ridiculous dunks.

Sly Guy
06-08-2010, 09:07 AM
of course he wouldn't. He would have been like 15 years old. Stupid oak.....

JordansBulls
06-08-2010, 01:39 PM
Some of these comments make me :facepalm:
Who was it? Phil Jackson, or Larry Brown, that said they'd take Dwight Howard over LeBron James?

Apparently some of the people in this thread are high.

"Not good enough for a max contract."

Haha.

Phil said he would take Dwight over Lebron.

http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showthread.php?t=416658

C_Mund
06-08-2010, 01:55 PM
Phil said he would take Dwight over Lebron.

http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showthread.php?t=416658

Haha, but if Phil's coaching it means he already has two all-stars, so it doesn't matter which of these two he picks.

magichatnumber9
06-08-2010, 01:55 PM
Oak does a lot of talking and people seem to be listening. Lets get that man a show.

Double_R
06-08-2010, 02:10 PM
[QUOTE=Double_R;13575268]This statement makes no sense... watch a magic game

That is why the Magic were the number 1 team in opp fg% and points allowed in the paint... he changes team's entire offensive game plans. period... Forget about his offense, let's just talk about what he does by being on the court on offense, every one of his teammates gets more open shots(hence all the 3s and open jumpers), all the offensive rebounds = more possessions, all the screens he set usually work... not to mention that his team has been one of the more dominant ones since he has been there... go join another forum where they welcome retards[/QUOTE

If Dwight changes the game on offense so much, why doesn't he score more, why doesn't he average 30 ppg? Apparently Lebron doesn't have a problem scoring because of his dominance on offense and how much teams try to compensate for him....Dwight sits around the hoop waiting for alleyoops , doesnt have a jumper and will never average more than 20 ppg. Give it up, Dwight is an overhyped nice guy who can throw down some pretty ridiculous dunks.

Your continued stupidity amazes me, this is my last comment to you b/c I doubt you can even read that well, but anyway Dwight has already averaged over 20ppg twice. You have too many power lines around your house.

JayW_1023
06-08-2010, 02:18 PM
i dont know, Shawn kemp made the league back then and he was bascally the same type of player.

Shawk Kemp had a softer touch around the rim and a jumper. He was more like Amare than Dwight.

JayW_1023
06-08-2010, 02:22 PM
In the 90's Howard would be 12 points 12 rebounds three blocks...solid but no superstar.

BarnesWillKillU
06-08-2010, 02:23 PM
are u really going to say u would take Laimbeer, Sikley and Kevin Duckworth over Dwight? I need to start getting my weed from u bro.

td0tsfinest
06-08-2010, 02:34 PM
Its kinda weird that Charles Oakley, a man who made a name in this league for his defense and rebounding, bash a guy whose best traits are the same thing.

BULLSFAN0810
06-08-2010, 04:32 PM
Also- what's with all these 90's era players acting as if the 1990's was the most competitive era in league history? It's ridiculous.

EDIT: I recognize some amazing centers played in the 90's.


i think what OAK TREE is saying is since Howard wont listen he wouldnt make any team in the 90s bc back then players didnt run nothing. The coaches would cut you or put you on the bench, no matter how high you jump. there were ppl back then , not as good a Howard but on D they were very equal on the bench.

BULLSFAN0810
06-08-2010, 04:35 PM
Its kinda weird that Charles Oakley, a man who made a name in this league for his defense and rebounding, bash a guy whose best traits are the same thing.

But the diffrence is.... is OAK TREE IS TOUGHER . Howard has been labeled soft , and soft players in the 90s got no tick...every1 in the NBA can run , jump and shoot. but toughness is the key.

RadiantShot
06-08-2010, 04:36 PM
Haha, but if Phil's coaching it means he already has two all-stars, so it doesn't matter which of these two he picks.

For starting a franchise...

AI4MVP
06-08-2010, 04:57 PM
Dwight Howard has the physical and athletic abilities to be one of the top 5 players of all time. its kinda sad to see he hasnt developed on actually basketball offensive game. if he really wanted to he could have been up there with the Shaq's and Hakeems of the world. but right now hes around the Dikemebes, which is still very good, but not as good as he couldbe

Bruno
06-08-2010, 05:00 PM
human nature. 20 years from now, players of today will be bragging that their era was the best. it's a matter of making yourself feel better. that's the only thing he can do. what do you expect oakley to do? sign with an NBA team and prove he's great at his age?

You can let your personal resume speak for itself without bashing a contemporary to make your self feel better about your own legacy. I understand what he's saying, and he's right in a lot of ways.

RadiantShot
06-08-2010, 05:10 PM
Dwight Howard has the physical and athletic abilities to be one of the top 5 players of all time. its kinda sad to see he hasnt developed on actually basketball offensive game. if he really wanted to he could have been up there with the Shaq's and Hakeems of the world. but right now hes around the Dikemebes, which is still very good, but not as good as he couldbe

Maybe top 10. Don't know about a top 10. We've only seen him for 6 seasons..

redsox0717
06-08-2010, 05:20 PM
Dwight's offense:

1.) Dunk the ball

2.) Throw the ball at the basket and pray it goes in

Dude has no post moves at all, such a waste of talent. Just imagine Kevin McHale if he had a body like Dwight's.

Truheatfan
06-08-2010, 05:26 PM
what some people will say just to get some attention dwight would still be an allstar cuz he gets rebounds and blocks shots sure he wouldnt be the top big man but hes athletic and strong enough to still get 15 pts and 12 boards against the nba's best bigs anyone that thinks otherwise is a hater

RadiantShot
06-08-2010, 05:26 PM
Dwight's offense:

1.) Dunk the ball

2.) Throw the ball at the basket and pray it goes in

Dude has no post moves at all, such a waste of talent. Just imagine Kevin McHale if he had a body like Dwight's.

Just imagine Big Baby David with Dwight's body.
We can play this game all day...Doesn't make sense.
Wait till' next year please.

AI4MVP
06-08-2010, 05:37 PM
Just imagine Big Baby David with Dwight's body.
We can play this game all day...Doesn't make sense.
Wait till' next year please.

thats what they said last year...

RadiantShot
06-08-2010, 05:38 PM
Yeah, last year, when he was 23 years old. Here, let me correct myself, let's wait till he's 27.

Mc Lovin
06-08-2010, 05:39 PM
He wouldn't be as good as he is if he played 15 years ago. That's a fact. He would probably have had a Dikembe Mutombo type career which is a very good career. To say he wouldn't make it is kind of crazy but he definitely wouldn't be as good as he is now. I've been saying this for a while now. Just picture Dwight Howard going up against Hakeem or Howard vs. Shaq when he was in his prime. No way he would average over 20 a game back then.

Kashmir13579
06-08-2010, 05:40 PM
Charles Oakley wouldn't make the NBA today.

LMAO. Oakley is a douche. he's just bitter because he never got a ring. plus Oak been making a lot of statements and the truth is... NOBODY CARES. STFU CHARLES OAKLEY. if dwight got in the DeLorean and went back to the 90s he would stuff the **** out of oakley and then take his milk money.:clap:

blacknell
06-08-2010, 05:43 PM
Oakley has a point i said that about Howard last season after his poor performance in the finals. He is not going to show up in big games because all he can do is dunk off alley oops.. All shaq could do was dunk but he had low post game to score Howard doesn't he is to soft and plays around to much

nycsports2
06-08-2010, 05:43 PM
howard wouldve been a top 5 center in the 90s imo

Mc Lovin
06-08-2010, 05:44 PM
Dwight Howard would be at least same level as Alonzo Mourning in the 90's.

IDK. Zo was a lot better offensively. If guys like Perkins can shut Howard down what do you think Zo, Shaq, David Robinson, Hakeem, Ewing, and Mutombo would have done to him. 15 years ago Dwight Howard is a PF in this league.

AI4MVP
06-08-2010, 05:48 PM
Yeah, last year, when he was 23 years old. Here, let me correct myself, let's wait till he's 27.

so ur telling us to wait 3 years before he has a post game? that doesnt sound like a great center to me. did it take Shaq til he was 27? wat about hakeem? robinson? ewing?

fact of the matter is, hes been in the league since he was 18. hes now 24. if he hasnt done anything in the 6 years hes been in the league to make him a legit post scoring threat, wat makes u think he ever will?

Otownd12superma
06-08-2010, 05:50 PM
Charles oakley has lost his mind,give him some air time & look what happens.In his years with the bulls?With the knicks? Now a radio personality.....Let him guard Dwight & see.....

AI4MVP
06-08-2010, 05:54 PM
howard wouldve been a top 5 center in the 90s imo

:no: Hakeem Olajuwon, Shaquille O'neal, David Robinson, Patrick Ewing, Alonzo Mourning >>>>>>> Dwight Howard. and IMO Dwight Howard vs Dikemebe Mutumbo is debateable

RadiantShot
06-08-2010, 05:56 PM
so ur telling us to wait 3 years before he has a post game? that doesnt sound like a great center to me. did it take Shaq til he was 27? wat about hakeem? robinson? ewing?

fact of the matter is, hes been in the league since he was 18. hes now 24. if he hasnt done anything in the 6 years hes been in the league to make him a legit post scoring threat, wat makes u think he ever will?

No, but it did take Shaq till' he was 27 to get his first ring. People have been rushing Dwight so much, and they compare him to Shaq, but don't realize Shaq got his first ring when he was 27 years old, with Kobe Bryant...Go ahead and tell me who Dwight has that can do what Kobe did. Go ahead.

AI4MVP
06-08-2010, 06:01 PM
No, but it did take Shaq till' he was 27 to get his first ring. People have been rushing Dwight so much, and they compare him to Shaq, but don't realize Shaq got his first ring when he was 27 years old, with Kobe Bryant...Go ahead and tell me who Dwight has that can do what Kobe did. Go ahead.

im not comparing there track records. im comparing there offensive abilities on the court

Verbal Christ
06-08-2010, 06:30 PM
supposedly dwight is the best center in the game, but fact of the matter is it is only by default. athleticism is one thing, which no doubt amplifies a defensive game, but offensive moves are not so much learned as they are just god given ability and knack for scoring. dwight howard has no jumpshot. how can the best center not have a jumpshot, or at least a scoring move in the paint that is 90% effective? a healthy yao ming IMO is still a better center than dwight howard and then to say with a straight face that he would have been a top 5 center during the golden era of post play?? absurd. it would be damn near illegal if dwight could develop an offensive game, but if he hasnt even shown it by now he probably never will. ben wallace version 2.0

rapjuicer06
06-09-2010, 09:46 AM
when has ben wallace scored 20 ppg in a season?

TrueFan420
06-09-2010, 09:58 AM
that would be the 2.0 part

Raoul Duke
06-09-2010, 10:47 AM
He's the best C in the NBA, but he's also the only C who can stay healthy. If Bogut and Yao could put together two straight years with no major injuries, then we could actually have a spirited debate on the matter.

That makes me wonder what the NBA teams are doing now that gives their big men such a short shelf life. Or is it just that we're going through a period of relative frailty for front court players? I just don't get it. Maybe it's just the fact that the game is speeding up and it's too hard on big bodies? Any thoughts?

awmathewsjr
06-09-2010, 11:24 AM
Wasn't Charles Oakley starting in that era? Is he saying he's better than Dwight? Yeah Right.