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Boston Faithful
06-04-2010, 01:59 AM
I posted a message citing my thoughts before, but I just came across this article on the topic, so I'll post this instead.


After the Los Angeles Lakers 102-89 victory over the Boston Celtics tonight in Game 1 of the 2010 NBA Finals, Lakers great Magic Johnson stated that if Kobe won this fifth championship, he would be in the discussion for greatest NBA player of all-time.

C'mon Magic, you know better than that.

Michael Jordan will always be the greatest player of all-time. Those two phrases will forever be synonymous in sports.

On a purely statistical level, he has the most MVP awards in NBA history and aside from Wayne Gretzky, whose jersey the NHL retired league wide, has the most MVP awards in all of team sports. He once averaged 37.1 points per game in 1987. The very next season he averaged 35.0 points per game and won both the MVP and Defensive Player of the Year awards. And very next season after that, he posted averages of 32.5 points, eight rebounds, eight assists and three steals per game. These are statistics that are unheard of in today’s world. Kobe came closest to Jordan’s 37.1 points leading a pathetic 2006 Lakers team while averaging 35.4 points. Did I forget to mention Jordan set the record with most points in a playoff game with 63 against the mighty Celtics in 1986?

After Jordan was bored with owning the league statistically, he went on to win six NBA championships. He three peated from 1991-93 and then again from 1996-98. Many argue that had Jordan never retired from 1993-95 and then stayed in the league from 1998-2000 (with the same Chicago Bulls roster), he could have won 8 to 10 championships, which is completely plausible.

Let's put that into comparison. If the Lakers clinch the 2010 NBA Finals, Kobe will have five titles, one short of Jordan. But the key statistic here is he will only have (most likely) two Finals MVP awards. For as many times fans want to argue Kobe never played second fiddle to Shaquille O'Neal, he really did. The Finals MVP's prove it. Shaq was the number one option in L.A. in the early 2000s and Kobe will never be able to escape that shadow. Pale that in comparison and Jordan has six Finals MVPs in his closet. He was always unanimously and far away the man on the Bulls. Going further, Kobe still has four less MVP awards than Jordan. For all the years Kobe's been in the league, he's only been able to win that award once. Again, if Jordan had never retired, many argue he could have won one or two more MVPs.

Jordan also had that rare longevity. When most 40-year-olds are getting splinters on the bench or sipping a drink in the Caribbean, Jordan came back and posted a game of 51 points. He posted averaged of 25 points, 5 rebounds and 5 assists per game before the 2001-02 All-Star break, leading the Washington Wizards to a 26-21 record. Jordan went down with an injury shortly after and he wasn't the same the next season. The point is, Jordan was simply a spectacle to watch, even between 38 and 40-years-old.

On a commercial level, NBA television ratings peaked with Jordan at the helm in 1998. The 1998 NBA Finals averaged an 18.7 TV rating and in Game 6 of the series, Jordan’s “last game” at the time, got a 22.3 TV rating with 72 million viewers. That’s right. 72 million.

To put that in contrast, the NBA’s top stars today – LeBron James and Kobe Bryant – only were able to average a 7.9 rating between the last three NBA Finals. That’s far less than half of what Jordan did.

Before Jordan, sports stars were not getting lucrative deals on endorsements. Companies such as Nike were unsure if they could make big strides with sports players at the helm. But Jordan changed all of that. Jordan joined Nike and Gatorade and became a centerpiece for those companies for years to come. He paved the way for football, baseball and basketball stars to get massive endorsements for the next 20 years. These are things Kobe Bryant will never be able to accomplish.

Jordan was a media darling while Kobe Bryant will always have that "Me Against the World" demeanor. Between the Shaq-Kobe rivalry in the early 2000s (where the media clearly sided with Shaq), the "Trade-Me" period in 2007 and the unfortunate rape case in 2003, Kobe has a horrible media reputation. He's just never been likeable. Jordan on the other hand, has always had an immaculate reputation and even went on to make Space Jam, which grossed $330 million. Heck, Jordan even had a movie based around him, Like Mike.

There will never be another athlete that is as popular, be marketed as well, win constantly and do as much for sports as Michael Jordan. So let's stop the Kobe Bryant, Greatest Player of All-Time talk, it's getting a bit out of hand.

credit: TheCelebrityCafe

leftymo
06-04-2010, 02:01 AM
you are probably right. The greatest of all time won a championship as a rookie and could play all five positions.

;)

The greatest also played in 9 finals, not 6.

Kevj77
06-04-2010, 02:01 AM
What do endorsements have to do with GOAT. Jordan is the GOAT, but I fail to see how commerial success has anything to do with it sorry.

MoBASS
06-04-2010, 02:02 AM
... Says the bitter Boston celtics fan.

Get lost. Kobe will be the greatest player of his era, just like Jordan is.

You can't compare eras.

/thread

B.JenningsMVP
06-04-2010, 02:04 AM
kobe = god :D

NYtilIdie
06-04-2010, 02:04 AM
you are probably right. The greatest of all time won a championship as a rookie and could play all five positions.

;)

The greatest also played in 9 finals, not 6.

But he was undefeated in those 6 Final apperances.

MJ>Kobe nuff' said, lock thread

Only one can be the best and his name is Michael Jefferey Jordan

rgr_crrl
06-04-2010, 02:05 AM
Michael Jordan, the greatest player of all-time.

It has a ring to it, those two phrases just go together.

Michael Jordan was beloved, between 5 MVPs and 6 championships, he was the man. But, those are the least of his credentials.

Kobe Bryant will never be to the NBA what Michael Jordan was. The league's ratings and revenue were skyhigh during the Jordan era. Bryant will never be the media magnet that Jordan was. He'll never be an endorsement monster that Jordan was. He'll never have Gatorade hounding him, Nike and everyone else hounding him to create "Air Kobe's". Sure, they'll endorse him, but he'll never be a spokesperson for those brands like Jordan was. He'll never have a movie (Like Mike) named after him.

If Kobe wins this year, he'd still be one title short. He'd still be 4 MVPs short. He'd be millions upon billions of fans short. And Bryant will always be looked at as the sidekick in his first three championships. Put aside me being a Celtic fan, Kobe Bryant just has never been likeable to basketball fans everywhere. Between the complaining in the Shaq era, the complaining pre-Gasol and the rape case, it killed his relationship with the media and fans.

Despite being a Celtics fan, I just can't imagine hearing people say, basketball fans or not, the greatest player of all-time, Kobe Bryant.

So as many times as people want to talk about it for the sake of talking about it, it's ridiculous. It'll always be Jordan.

See that's the thing you being a Celtic's fan automatically discredits any opinion about who is better Kobe vs Michael. But In My Opinion i don't care if Kobe is the Marketing factor that Michael was. Kobe has one desire and that is for CHAMPIONSHIP rings! Also Kobe's jerseys have been on top of selling lists for years. Asia loves Kobe and they have the largest population in the world.

NBAfan4life
06-04-2010, 02:06 AM
... Says the bitter Boston celtics fan.

Get lost. Kobe will be the greatest player of his era, just like Jordan is.

You can't compare eras.

/thread

This^^

Avenged
06-04-2010, 02:06 AM
Bitter after losing game 1?

NYtilIdie
06-04-2010, 02:07 AM
... Says the bitter Boston celtics fan.

Get lost. Kobe will be the greatest player of his era, just like Jordan is.

You can't compare eras.

/thread

You could make an arguement for Shaq

rgr_crrl
06-04-2010, 02:08 AM
But he was undefeated in those 6 Final apperances.

MJ>Kobe nuff' said, lock thread

Only one can be the best and his name is Michael Jefferey Jordan

Love your sig lmao but so what kobe is most likely going to end his career with more rings than MJ got but I just wish I could have watched more of MJs his career

kblo247
06-04-2010, 02:08 AM
He doesn't have to be the GOAT.

He can settle for being the GLOAT and collecting rings for LA

Master Mind
06-04-2010, 02:09 AM
People seem to forget MJ retired, came back and won 3 straight--imagine if he never retired...And he also never had big men to support him like Kobe...

rgr_crrl
06-04-2010, 02:10 AM
It doesnt matter MJ still had a balanced team. He had great consistent role players throughout those championship runs and his No. 2 never left

COBY KARL
06-04-2010, 02:11 AM
tying in media success and high tv ratings has nothing to do with whether or not it determines who the GOAT is. Saying how Jordan's commercial success helped him to be recognized as the greatest player to ever play means that the G.O.A.T. title was simply fabricated from mass media. It's impossible to really judge who the GOAT is or will be. I trust the players and coaches to determine that, not some Nike commercials or what ESPN tells me to believe.

For example, not hating on Lebron, but the media will tell you that Lebron is the best player in the game today, while the majority of players or coaches will tell you it's Kobe.

jacquewho?
06-04-2010, 02:12 AM
All i get from this thread is an upset Celtic fan who obviously wasn't happy with the way his team played in Game 1 of the NBA Finals.

NYtilIdie
06-04-2010, 02:13 AM
It doesnt matter MJ still had a balanced team. He had great consistent role players throughout those championship runs and his No. 2 never left

Kobe had Shaq, who IMO is a top 5 player to ever play in the league.

IMO Shaq>Pippen

No, discredit to Pippen who is one of the best defensive players to ever play and a Top 50 player, but Shaq is the most dominant center to ever play

Also Shaq was never #2 to Kobe, it was the other way around

Avenged
06-04-2010, 02:13 AM
All i get from this thread is an upset Celtic fan who obviously wasn't happy with the way his team played in Game 1 of the NBA Finals.

Bingo.

;)

Boston Faithful
06-04-2010, 02:15 AM
tying in media success and high tv ratings has nothing to do with whether or not it determines who the GOAT is. Saying how Jordan's commercial success helped him to be recognized as the greatest player to ever play means that the G.O.A.T. title was simply fabricated from mass media. It's impossible to really judge who the GOAT is or will be. I trust the players and coaches to determine that, not some Nike commercials or what ESPN tells me to believe.

For example, not hating on Lebron, but the media will tell you that Lebron is the best player in the game today, while the majority of players or coaches will tell you it's Kobe.

Okay, based on statistics and championships, Jordan still trumps Kobe.

Even if the Lakers won this year, Kobe would be one title short.

And do you know how humongous being 4 MVPs short is? Kobe won the award once. That means in all of his seasons except for one, he didn't win ****. He had TEN scoring titles. Kobe has had what? 2? 1? Jordan also won the Defensive Player of the Year award, which Kobe never came close to doing.

Jordan assembled the greatest team of all-time, the 1995-96 Bulls. 72-10. Beat that.

Sadds The Gr8
06-04-2010, 02:16 AM
lol wrong timing on this thread....especially for a Celtics fan. I do agree though.

rgr_crrl
06-04-2010, 02:16 AM
Kobe had Shaq, who IMO is a top 5 player to ever play in the league.

IMO Shaq>Pippen

No, discredit to Pippen who is one of the best defensive players to ever play and a Top 50 player, but Shaq is the most dominant center to ever play

Yes no doubt i know that shaq was more dominant than pippen obviously. But also what about wilt chamberlain i just realized how many 50+ point games hes had its unbelievable. The lakers only really where guaranteed a W is if shaq and kobe combined for something like 55pts so that means the role players did not really help with the offensive side.

rgr_crrl
06-04-2010, 02:19 AM
Okay, based on statistics and championships, Jordan still trumps Kobe.

Even if the Lakers won this year, Kobe would be one title short.

And do you know how humongous being 4 MVPs short is? Kobe won the award once. That means in all of his seasons except for one, he didn't win ****. He had TEN scoring titles. Kobe has had what? 2? 1? Jordan also won the Defensive Player of the Year award, which Kobe never came close to doing.

Jordan assembled the greatest team of all-time, the 1995-96 Bulls. 72-10. Beat that.

What does an MVP mean to Kobe nothing really but you act like kobe is going to retire after this season he still has 4 or 5 more years and i think he has a chance of winning a few more. So kobe will most likely end up tied with mj or have more. And Kobe will probably finish with more career points than mj too.

Mathew
06-04-2010, 02:19 AM
Michael Jordan, the greatest player of all-time.

It has a ring to it, those two phrases just go together.

Michael Jordan was beloved, between 5 MVPs and 6 championships, he was the man. But, those are the least of his credentials.

Kobe Bryant will never be to the NBA what Michael Jordan was. The league's ratings and revenue were skyhigh during the Jordan era. Bryant will never be the media magnet that Jordan was. He'll never be an endorsement monster that Jordan was. He'll never have Gatorade hounding him, Nike and everyone else hounding him to create "Air Kobe's". Sure, they'll endorse him, but he'll never be a spokesperson for those brands like Jordan was. He'll never have a movie (Like Mike) named after him.

If Kobe wins this year, he'd still be one title short. He'd still be 4 MVPs short. He'd be millions upon billions of fans short. And Bryant will always be looked at as the sidekick in his first three championships. Put aside me being a Celtic fan, Kobe Bryant just has never been likeable to basketball fans everywhere. Between the complaining in the Shaq era, the complaining pre-Gasol and the rape case, it killed his relationship with the media and fans.

Despite being a Celtics fan, I just can't imagine hearing people say, basketball fans or not, the greatest player of all-time, Kobe Bryant.

So as many times as people want to talk about it for the sake of talking about it, it's ridiculous. It'll always be Jordan.

Edit: And anybody who was very young (or not even alive) when Jordan was playing, isn't going to have a credible opinion in this thread. People forget how huge and popular Jordan was to the NBA. Kobe just isn't that person in this day and age. LeBron could be if he wins championships.

Second Edit: This has nothing to do with the Celtics losing Game 1. The Celtics can come back Sunday and win and I'll post this over again. I felt I wanted to make a comment on this after Magic Johnson proclaimed Kobe could be the greatest ever if he wins this championship. That was just crazy talk.

Wow... this post sucked to read, give me my 30 seconds back!

Avenged
06-04-2010, 02:21 AM
Why are you guys arguing about this?

Jordan is the GOAT.

Kobe still has ways to go to reach his status.

Celtics fan is bitter.

This thread is random.

Im out.

LakerFan4L1fe24
06-04-2010, 02:21 AM
Ahh I see, you made this thread to make yourself feel better after that beatdown we all just witnessed. Very smart. :D

COBY KARL
06-04-2010, 02:22 AM
Okay, based on statistics and championships, Jordan still trumps Kobe.

Even if the Lakers won this year, Kobe would be one title short.

And do you know how humongous being 4 MVPs short is? Kobe won the award once. That means in all of his seasons except for one, he didn't win ****. He had TEN scoring titles. Kobe has had what? 2? 1? Jordan also won the Defensive Player of the Year award, which Kobe never came close to doing.

Jordan assembled the greatest team of all-time, the 1995-96 Bulls. 72-10. Beat that.

Okay i'm not saying that Kobe is greater than Jordan or ever will be. I'm simply saying that you cant credit Jordan's fame with his success in the media, and that Jordan isn't the defined G.O.A.T. He definitely has the majority of the world thinking so, but you can't say it like it's a fact. it's all debatable, he's arguably the GOAT. and he is in my book. as of NOW.

Yes i recognize that it seems impossible for Kobe to accomplish what Jordan has done other than titles. But honestly you will never know. you can't argue that by the end of his career, Kobe will be in the conversation for GOAT. He might not be the obvious choice, but he will certainly be in the conversation IMO.

Chacarron
06-04-2010, 02:24 AM
People seem to forget MJ retired, came back and won 3 straight--imagine if he never retired...And he also never had big men to support him like Kobe...

He retired for not even 2 years the first time, and his second retirement had no impact since the next season would be the shortened season, and the Bulls had been broken up by then.

Korman12
06-04-2010, 02:27 AM
Different era, circumstances, everything.

Let the casual fans who don't know the sport well enough argue about who's better than who. Real basketball fans know that argument doesn't work.

NYtilIdie
06-04-2010, 02:27 AM
Yes no doubt i know that shaq was more dominant than pippen obviously. But also what about wilt chamberlain i just realized how many 50+ point games hes had its unbelievable. The lakers only really where guaranteed a W is if shaq and kobe combined for something like 55pts so that means the role players did not really help with the offensive side.

You could make a case for Wilt, but my knock on him is in his prime there wasn't much competiton in the league at the time, the only competition around was Kareem, but by time he entered the league Wilt was on his last leg.

When Shaq entered the had to deal with a prime Ewing,David Robinson,Hakeem, and Tim Duncan.

Rego247
06-04-2010, 02:28 AM
Okay, based on statistics and championships, Jordan still trumps Kobe.

Even if the Lakers won this year, Kobe would be one title short.

And do you know how humongous being 4 MVPs short is? Kobe won the award once. That means in all of his seasons except for one, he didn't win ****. He had TEN scoring titles. Kobe has had what? 2? 1? Jordan also won the Defensive Player of the Year award, which Kobe never came close to doing.

Jordan assembled the greatest team of all-time, the 1995-96 Bulls. 72-10. Beat that.

u should have just stated this in your original post, but u also focused on the commercial sucess of both, which has nothing to do with being the GOAT.

jordan>kobe cuz of ships and what he accomplished on the court. not cuz of the total net gross of space jam or how much gatorade mj sold. cmon.

rgr_crrl
06-04-2010, 02:30 AM
You could make a case for Wilt, but my knock on him is in his prime there wasn't much competiton in the league at the time, the only competition around was Kareem, but by time he entered the league Wilt was on his last leg.

When Shaq entered the had to deal with a prime Ewing,David Robinson,Hakeem, and Tim Duncan.

Its disappointing that someone who dominated the nba for so long is not given proper credit for it. He average 50 points one year that is just amazing :cry: But the sad thing is is that Shaq still does pretty well even in his late 30's. But then again hes always been stronger than everyone and just either dunk or do a mini hook shot form like 5ft away

ARMIN12NBA
06-04-2010, 02:31 AM
Cool story bro.

SugeKnight
06-04-2010, 02:31 AM
6 Finals MVPs>1 Finals MVP

Jordan took two years off, came back and was still GOAT and continued to dominate. If he stayed in the NBA he would have had at least 8 titles

AI4MVP
06-04-2010, 02:41 AM
wow why is this even being debated???? Michael Jordan is and always will be better then Kobe Bryant. No arguement.

Three of the championships Kobe won, he wasnt even the first option. Was Michael Jordan ever second fiddle to anyone?? No.

Kobe bryant is a legend for sure, but hes always going to be a poor mans Jordan. which just shows how good jordan was.

robdizzle3
06-04-2010, 02:42 AM
WOW!!! I see a very big hater in the room. Its funny how as soon as Kobe and the Lakers beat the Celrtcs, you come with a post like this. Sure, Kobe may never be "considered" as the best too most people, because there is alot of hate for Kobe. People either love or hate Kobe, there is no in between like it was with jordan. i know I dont love Jordan, nor hate him. Kobe would've been up there if he didnt get that rape case, though innocent, it was a very big black eye for him and he lost everything. Mcdonalds, Nike, Gatorade, Sprite and even that peanut butter stuff. Believe it or not, Kobe is one of the best all time and with this laker team now, he has a chance to win three more rings, even if he doenst get it this year.

Nirvanaskurdt
06-04-2010, 02:48 AM
Mike James is somewhere throwing a fit about this thread :mad: :bang:

MJ >>>>>>>>>>>>> KOBE

boriquaabe
06-04-2010, 02:49 AM
I'll lay it down like this.

KObe won 3 with shaq right...

At the time shaq was the most dominant player in the league ok...

Shaq was way more dominant than Pippen and Mike won 6 with Scottie and never ever took a back seat to scottie Mike was always the man.

I also think of mike as having 8 rings because of him taking a hiatus to play baseball for 2 years in between the 2 3peats. In those 2 years the Bulls with Mike would've been favored to win it all. Heck even without Mike they were a tough out in the playoffs.

Can you imagine what a Mike and Shaq combo would've done?

ALso you have to take into account the rules Kobe has played with.

Without handchecking Mike would of been an animal.

Mike Hands down. Thinking otherwise would be foolish and not a true fan of the game. Only laker fans think Kobe has been better than Mike. But all other neutral fans like myself(knicks fan) know the truth.

boriquaabe
06-04-2010, 02:55 AM
WOW!!! I see a very big hater in the room. Its funny how as soon as Kobe and the Lakers beat the Celrtcs, you come with a post like this. Sure, Kobe may never be "considered" as the best too most people, because there is alot of hate for Kobe. People either love or hate Kobe, there is no in between like it was with jordan. i know I dont love Jordan, nor hate him. Kobe would've been up there if he didnt get that rape case, though innocent, it was a very big black eye for him and he lost everything. Mcdonalds, Nike, Gatorade, Sprite and even that peanut butter stuff. Believe it or not, Kobe is one of the best all time and with this laker team now, he has a chance to win three more rings, even if he doenst get it this year.

How do you know he was really innocent. The girl cracked under pressure, she didn't want to testify, took the money and ran.

DCB/LAL
06-04-2010, 02:57 AM
Its because Kobe had Shaq....


IF MJ came in to the league at 17 and had Shaq he would of been the second option as well anybody who played with Shaq would of been a second option.


Lakers were built aroune Shaq just like the Bulls were built around MJ....had the Lakers been built around Kobe he might of won some titles as well but thats not the case....although now they are and Kobe is showing he can do it if the team is built around him.

iggypop123
06-04-2010, 03:01 AM
wow it only took one game for this to begin.

boriquaabe
06-04-2010, 03:01 AM
People forget but the dude was doing some foul ish that night:

In her initial interview with police on July 2, Faber claimed Bryant raped her from behind over a love chair in his hotel room at approximately 11 pm on July 1.[9] She said she arrived late to her job at the hotel because of car problems. While in Bryant’s room after giving him a tour of the hotel, she said she became “uncomfortable” because he was being flirtatious. She said she got up to leave and that Bryant asked her for a hug. Then she said he kissed her when she looked up at him. She later said both the hug and kiss were consensual, but she never wanted to have sex with Bryant.

Faber stated the kiss lasted 5 minutes, and then Bryant pulled down his pants and started groping her. She claimed that she tried to pull away at that point, and said Bryant put both of his hands around her neck to choke her. She said he pulled her over to the chair by her neck, where he "bent her over the chair and pulled down her panties". She said he then penetrated her from behind with one hand on her neck holding her down. She said both her hands were on the chair and that she said “no” repeatedly. She said she wasn’t resisting because she was afraid he would become “more physical.”

She told investigators that Bryant then asked whether she "liked it if a guy came on [her] face".[10] She said she told Bryant "no". And then she "got a little more aggressive with him and tried to release his hands from [her] neck". After "trying as hard as [she] could to get away" she said Bryant stopped having intercourse with her, and she was able to free herself. She said Bryant made her promise not to tell anyone, and then he forced her to wash her face before she could leave. She told investigators three times that she washed her face in his room before she left the room, but later claimed she never washed her face. Detective Winters asked "are you lying to me right now?" Faber answered "no". While giving the statement, Faber also volunteered to take a lie detector test to prove she was telling the truth.[11]

According to Detective Winters's "Affidavit in Support of Arrest", Faber added something to her story when examined by a nurse on July 2.[12] She told the nurse that she gave Bryant oral sex. Faber later explained to Detective Winters that Bryant made her kiss his penis after the intercourse by pulling her head down with both hands. She stated that there was nothing else that she could recall. Winters noted that Bryant said ejaculating on his partner's face was his "thing". Faber's rape examination revealed "vaginal trauma" and that her underwear had a very small brown mark on the crotch that was identified as dried blood. Detective Winters also noted that Trina McKay, the resort's night auditor, said she didn’t look upset when she came back from Bryant's room, and didn’t believe Faber was telling the truth.

In her letter to Gerry Sandberg, Faber would apologize for "mix-ups" in her initial statement to police.[13]

And then apologized....Gee WHy?

Settlement

Before the case was scheduled to go to trial, Faber filed a civil lawsuit against Bryant over the incident on August 10. The two sides ultimately settled that lawsuit, with specific terms of the settlement being undisclosed to the public. Bryant did, however, issue the following statement through his attorney, as part of an agreement with the accuser to dismiss the sexual assault charge:
“ First, I want to apologize directly to the young woman involved in this incident. I want to apologize to her for my behavior that night and for the consequences she has suffered in the past year. Although this year has been incredibly difficult for me personally, I can only imagine the pain she has had to endure. I also want to apologize to her parents and family members, and to my family and friends and supporters, and to the citizens of Eagle, Colo.

I also want to make it clear that I do not question the motives of this young woman. No money has been paid to this woman. She has agreed that this statement will not be used against me in the civil case. Although I truly believe this encounter between us was consensual, I recognize now that she did not and does not view this incident the same way I did. After months of reviewing discovery, listening to her attorney, and even her testimony in person, I now understand how she feels that she did not consent to this encounter.

I issue this statement today fully aware that while one part of this case ends today, another remains. I understand that the civil case against me will go forward. That part of this case will be decided by and between the parties directly involved in the incident and will no longer be a financial or emotional drain on the citizens of the state of Colorado.[24]

I wonder how much he paid her.....

boriquaabe
06-04-2010, 03:04 AM
Its because Kobe had Shaq....


IF MJ came in to the league at 17 and had Shaq he would of been the second option as well anybody who played with Shaq would of been a second option.


Lakers were built aroune Shaq just like the Bulls were built around MJ....had the Lakers been built around Kobe he might of won some titles as well but thats not the case....although now they are and Kobe is showing he can do it if the team is built around him.

oh well....

Switch
06-04-2010, 03:04 AM
... Says the bitter Boston celtics fan.

Get lost. Kobe will be the greatest player of his era, just like Jordan is.

You can't compare eras.

/thread

:clap:

PLAYERS FAN
06-04-2010, 03:06 AM
Shaq has 0 rings as the main man without Kobe! Kobe has 1 ring without Shaq being the main man!

DCB/LAL
06-04-2010, 03:12 AM
First of all he wasn't 17 when he played with shaq.

Second of all the lakers weren't built around shaq they acquired him in a trade and the team was built to run the triangle.

Kobe was drafted into the league when he was 17....and YES the triangle was the offense they ran but the team was built around Shaq meaning Shaq was the #1 option....at that time it wouldn't of matter if MJ or anyone was with him Shaq would of still been the guy. Shaq was the #1 option Kobe was the closer....now Kobe is the #1 option AND the Closer........AND HE'S STILL WINNING RINGS.

ARMIN12NBA
06-04-2010, 03:15 AM
People forget but the dude was doing some foul ish that night:

Are you ****ing serious right now with this ********?

People need to leave this topic alone. Literally, it amazes me every day that the only way to tear Kobe down is by saying he is not the greatest player of all time. THAT is how damn brilliant of a basketball player he is. He is so damn great that the only way to denigrate him as a basketball player is by saying he isn't the all-time best (which only one player can claim) or by bringing up some ******** trial.

Think about that for a second. You are basically trying to insult the dude by arguing how he is not the GREATEST OF ALL TIME (which the fact that the thought process is there highlights his brilliance as a player).

boriquaabe
06-04-2010, 03:25 AM
Are you ****ing serious right now with this ********?

People need to leave this topic alone. Literally, it amazes me every day that the only way to tear Kobe down is by saying he is not the greatest player of all time. THAT is how damn brilliant of a basketball player he is. He is so damn great that the only way to denigrate him as a basketball player is by saying he isn't the all-time best (which only one player can claim) or by bringing up some ******** trial.

Think about that for a second. You are basically trying to insult the dude by arguing how he is not the GREATEST OF ALL TIME (which the fact that the thought process is there highlights his brilliance as a player).

Relax. I wrote a post of why I think Mike is better than him and then I wrote a post of why I think he is no better than a piece of turd in my toilet as a person. 2 seperate things.

boriquaabe
06-04-2010, 03:26 AM
I'm not going to support cats who take advantage of women. You know what they do to guys like him in the pen?

ldc62
06-04-2010, 03:29 AM
the fact that this was made after the Celtics lose doesn't surprise me... anything to make you feel better

GspLAL
06-04-2010, 03:43 AM
If it was the other way around the thread would have been closed after 1 or 2 pages.

abe_froman
06-04-2010, 03:47 AM
because while really great(in top 10 i think),he isnt as good as some other guys :shrug:

boriquaabe
06-04-2010, 03:50 AM
because while really great(in top 10 i think),he isnt as good as some other guys :shrug:

i would put him in the top 10 also and i can't stand the dude.

Boston Faithful
06-04-2010, 04:21 AM
Everyone should read the article posted.

valade16
06-04-2010, 04:28 AM
Shaq has 0 rings as the main man without Kobe! Kobe has 1 ring without Shaq being the main man!

But Shaq has 3 rings being the main man...

Kobe has 1.

Advantage Shaq.

And if I swear to God if you so much as insinuate that Kobe and Shaq were Co-Main Men on those Championship teams...

Well, I'll just assumed you started watching basketball in 2005.

Because if you watched from 2000-2003, you'd know beyond a SHADOW OF A DOUBT that Shaq was the MAIN MAN on those teams and Kobe was his sidekick, period.

R8rs4Life
06-04-2010, 04:39 AM
Out of the following 2 statements, which seems like the more far fetched:

1- Michael Jordan is better than Kobe Bryant

2- Kobe Bryant is better than Michael Jordan

Its obvious statement number 2 is far fetched, the idiotic choice, the dumb**s choice!!

With that said, MJ over KB...

Catoblepas
06-04-2010, 04:41 AM
The game of Basketball has changed so much that its really hard to say... for example another question... would Wilt C. Become a HOF if he played in todays game?.. Or...would Shaqs dominance be untouchable if he played in Wilts era? hmm... its something people will never know.

OrangeDolphin
06-04-2010, 04:50 AM
Kobe Best player of his era. If he wins more Ships than Jordan then he is the best Player ever. They do this same damn argument for greatest QB ever. And all anyone says is Rings not stats so if kobe has more rings he is the best, if not then he isn't

abe_froman
06-04-2010, 05:13 AM
Kobe Best player of his era. If he wins more Ships than Jordan then he is the best Player ever. They do this same damn argument for greatest QB ever. And all anyone says is Rings not stats so if kobe has more rings he is the best, if not then he isn't

i dont say that,rings are not won by a single person ,and if ring count is truly what matters than you must think horry is the goat.hell he win 3-4 more and he wouldnt be the best

gcoll
06-04-2010, 05:15 AM
Kobe Best player of his era. If he wins more Ships than Jordan then he is the best Player ever. They do this same damn argument for greatest QB ever. And all anyone says is Rings not stats so if kobe has more rings he is the best, if not then he isn't
People use the rings argument if they can't think.

Otherwise Derek Fisher is a way better point guard than John Stockton.

JJ_JKidd
06-04-2010, 05:19 AM
Just get over with the game 1 loss Boston bandwagoners!

Apophis
06-04-2010, 05:26 AM
I'm not going to support cats who take advantage of women. You know what they do to guys like him in the pen?

He didnt take advantage of her.. Just gave it to her in the butt....

By that note.... wouldnt MJ be considered someone taking advatage of women by cheating on his wife?

These are two players from two different era's..... MJ was the greatest of his time.. Kobe will end of being the Greatest of his....

robdizzle3
06-04-2010, 05:39 AM
I'm not going to support cats who take advantage of women. You know what they do to guys like him in the pen?

I really dont see how he really took advantage over this girl. Didnt the girl have like seven different semens in her panties? She's doing what any girl does that sees a superstar and thats trying to get a quick paycheck. Didnt she also drop the suit when it became public of how many men she slept with in a certain time frame? Also, she changed her stories three times and bragged at a party to friends that she slept with Kobe. So how is that foul? Seems like a liar to me thats tryna get paid. I understand that you dislike Kobe and its cool, because alot of people do, but its not cool to make up a bogus excuse of him taking advantage of a girl, because its trash.

jackdawson
06-04-2010, 05:55 AM
How the **** people even make these types of threads anyway? This OP has some issues for sure. He made a similar thread on Kobe a few days ago. Jesus!! There will never be another Michael Jordan. Stupid people need to realize that.

jackdawson
06-04-2010, 06:01 AM
Everyone should read the article posted.

Dude, just stfu, absorb the loss, and stop making these threads. No one is claiming Kobe is better than Jordan.

-Kobe24-TJ19-
06-04-2010, 06:24 AM
Michael Jordan will always be the greatest player of all-time. Those two phrases will forever be synonymous in sports.

I'll ignore articles which make that kind of statements!:facepalm:

i.got.the.nutz
06-04-2010, 06:26 AM
Kobe is not the greatest of all time.

Jordan is the GOAT.

Kobe is going to lead his team to a ship in 2010.

Lebron will be watching.

Kobe will be wearing his next ring on another hand.

asandhu23
06-04-2010, 06:28 AM
Wilt Chamberlain

-Kobe24-TJ19-
06-04-2010, 06:33 AM
wilt chamberlain

+1

Bostondiehard
06-04-2010, 06:44 AM
Dude, just stfu, absorb the loss, and stop making these threads. No one is claiming Kobe is better than Jordan.
Exactly. The guy just had a great game en route to be beating the Celtics in game 1, so let's start yet another Jordan-Kobe debate! :facepalm:. Jesus dude, absorb the loss is absolutely correct. Kobe is great, no need to be a sore loser over his 30 pt game and claim, "well, he's still not the best of all time!" Sour grapes at its finest.

TheWatcher34
06-04-2010, 06:55 AM
"Be like Mike"...that movie got into Kobe's head a little too much... Jordan was a better athlete and better as a human being

Vikes_Fan04
06-04-2010, 07:04 AM
We all know that OSCAR ROBERTSON was the GOAT he averaged a triple dub! sorry, just wanted to get in on the nonsense. =X

notoriouzzzz
06-04-2010, 07:41 AM
I'll lay it down like this.

KObe won 3 with shaq right...

At the time shaq was the most dominant player in the league ok...

Shaq was way more dominant than Pippen and Mike won 6 with Scottie and never ever took a back seat to scottie Mike was always the man.

I also think of mike as having 8 rings because of him taking a hiatus to play baseball for 2 years in between the 2 3peats. In those 2 years the Bulls with Mike would've been favored to win it all. Heck even without Mike they were a tough out in the playoffs.

Can you imagine what a Mike and Shaq combo would've done?

ALso you have to take into account the rules Kobe has played with.

Without handchecking Mike would of been an animal.

Mike Hands down. Thinking otherwise would be foolish and not a true fan of the game. Only laker fans think Kobe has been better than Mike. But all other neutral fans like myself(knicks fan) know the truth.
Really michael and Shaq together!? it would have never worked. Jordan has a bigger ego than Kobe. He could have never played second fiddle to Shaq as you stated. if anything shaw robbed Kobe of greatness. If Jordan had to play with shaq, he would have had to defer to shaq. It's the logical smart thing to do. Phil would have gotten him to defer to shaq just like he got kobe to do. Jordan would have said no and have bigger feud than Kobe had with Shaq and hated even more. Media votes for the mvps.. Jordan would have maybe one. He would be lucky if he had one championship with Shaq. Pippen on his own team would have been a superstar. He took so much pressure off MJ and allowed MJ to be the MJ you all know and love. If pippen had feuded to Jordan.. you wouldn't be counting 6 championships and the mvps. Imagine Odom having pippen skills and playing consistently. It would be over!! The year MJ briefly retired, Pippen was killing the league close to 30 pts/ game. He was facilitator on that bulls team, he guarded the best player.. giving Jordan every chance to do whatever he wanted offensively. Kobe is playing the facilitator role limited how much he is able to do and when he gets off that role and starts taking over.. you call him selfish. Jordan did not avg 37pts/game by playing facilitator role. Kobe was robbed by Shaq.. it's that simple. Jordan could have never coexisted with Shaq. you underestimate Jordan's ego.. and Shaq is not deferrng to anyone

cHi8DaL5LA420
06-04-2010, 08:09 AM
I think it's real funny that this thread is coming from a "BOSTONFAITHFUL". Lol!!!! Let's just wait until Kobe retires and then we will compare stats. Looks like he is well on his way to his 5th title and that my friend is in the same category as Michael Jordan and that's not even debatable.

JordansBulls
06-04-2010, 08:43 AM
Don't see a point in a thread like this. Better threads are creating a top 5 or top 10 list all time vs just saying one player is the G.O.A.T. or not.