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View Full Version : How would a LeBron and Bosh led Knicks be any worse than the 2007-08 Celtics?



Boston Faithful
06-03-2010, 05:28 PM
Say the Knicks do get LeBron and Bosh this offseason. I hear so much talk that the Knicks don't have depth and therefore, even with LeBron and Bosh, won't be a top 3 team.

Depth? The Celtics practically traded their entire team for Garnett and Ray Allen. In 2007-08, Rondo and Perkins were every bit as raw as Wilson Chandler and Danilo Gallinari are now.

So my question is, how is a LeBron, Bosh, Gallinari, Chandler and Toney Douglas combination any worse than the 2007-08 version of the Big Three, Rondo and Perk?

It's not. LeBron and Bosh haven't even entered their prime yet, while the Big Three were past it once they were assembled on the Celtics. Gallinari and Chandler can blossom under the tuteledge of LeBron, Bosh and D'Antoni, quite like Rondo and Perk developed under the Big Three and Doc Rivers.

I really don't see how the Knicks wouldn't at least be between 1-5 in terms of best teams in the NBA.

As you saw in 2007, the Celtics used their mid level to sign Posey and Eddie House, two key pieces. They then signed PJ Brown to the minimum (because he wanted to win a championship). Whose to say the Knicks can't get two key guys with the midlevel and then get a vet who wants to win a championship?

This team (with LeBron and Bosh) will have every bit the depth as the 2007-2008 version of the Celtic had.

beasted86
06-03-2010, 05:32 PM
Yes, they will be worse.

The Celtics had elite defense. The Knicks will not.

The Celtics had 3 elite players. The Knicks will not.

celtsballa21
06-03-2010, 05:35 PM
The Celtics had 3 elite players that are unselfish. That would be 2 selfish players and terrible bench players and no role players but Chandler and Gallinari. The Celtics also had good coaching, which is not what the Knicks will have. You can't throw great players on a team and expect them to do well unless they are humble and unselfish like the Big 3. Your not going to get that from Lebron and Bosh, (ex. Dream Team).

hugepatsfan
06-03-2010, 05:38 PM
The Celtics had a huge advantage - trades over FA signings. They started over the cap. Because the Knicks will be under it, they don't get a MLE. Also the Celts had some other young pieces even after the trades, so they didn't actually deal the whole team. They still had Tony Allen (who had played great when healthy the year before), Rondo, Perk, and Leon Powe. They also aquired Big Baby in the Ray deal. Finally, the Knicks wouldn't have the right mix. The Celts had a true defensive C - the Knicks will not. The Knicks, if they add Lebron and Bosh, will not be ablt to add other pieces and will play no defense because they will be undersized. They would be a 4-5 seed in the East and maybe win a round. In year 2, after they get another offseason to add some role players, they could start to compete for a championship.

azkarraga
06-03-2010, 05:42 PM
easy. They'll be much worse. The Celtics had 3 superstars; Knicks will have just 1 megastar. Bosh aint that good. Nowhere close to Garnet.

hugepatsfan
06-03-2010, 05:43 PM
The biggest difference is NO MLE FOR THE KNICKS!!!

Da Knicks
06-03-2010, 05:46 PM
Man are we ever skrewed!:cry: All we have is room for two maxes or trades and young players in a system where they can all score man I wish we had hope...:rolleyes:

xwashableclothx
06-03-2010, 05:46 PM
Could they win 60+ games sure, but they would not win a championship with those 5 as starters.

Even though Rondo and Perkins weren't that great on offense they still played great defense that year. KG and Pierce were also great defenders.

Douglas, Gallo, Bosh are not good defenders at all. They could be like the Suns, make it deep in the playoffs cause of offense, but won't make it to the finals.

Truheatfan
06-03-2010, 05:46 PM
Yes, they will be worse.

The Celtics had elite defense. The Knicks will not.

The Celtics had 3 elite players. The Knicks will not.

x2! dantoni doesnt know the meaning of defense

Reversed86Curse
06-03-2010, 05:47 PM
Say the Knicks do get LeBron and Bosh this offseason. I hear so much talk that the Knicks don't have depth and therefore, even with LeBron and Bosh, won't be a top 3 team.

Depth? The Celtics practically traded their entire team for Garnett and Ray Allen. In 2007-08, Rondo and Perkins were every bit as raw as Wilson Chandler and Danilo Gallinari are now.

So my question is, how is a LeBron, Bosh, Gallinari, Chandler and Toney Douglas combination any worse than the 2007-08 version of the Big Three, Rondo and Perk?

It's not. LeBron and Bosh haven't even entered their prime yet, while the Big Three were past it once they were assembled on the Celtics. Gallinari and Chandler can blossom under the tuteledge of LeBron, Bosh and D'Antoni, quite like Rondo and Perk developed under the Big Three and Doc Rivers.

I really don't see how the Knicks wouldn't at least be between 1-5 in terms of best teams in the NBA.

As you saw in 2007, the Celtics used their mid level to sign Posey and Eddie House, two key pieces. They then signed PJ Brown to the minimum (because he wanted to win a championship). Whose to say the Knicks can't get two key guys with the midlevel and then get a vet who wants to win a championship?

This team (with LeBron and Bosh) will have every bit the depth as the 2007-2008 version of the Celtic had.

So, your comparing Gallanari to either Peirce or Ray..... sorry, but thats got fail written all over it.

Wow, where to begin.....

Defense would be suspect at best, they have no real point guard or center and depth? Hardly. The only comparison that I see between them and the C's would be that Eddie House would have been on both teams

JordansBulls
06-03-2010, 05:47 PM
Bosh and Lebron coming to Chicago my friend.

-Kobe24-TJ19-
06-03-2010, 05:47 PM
fail

Chronz
06-03-2010, 05:48 PM
Defensively and I think you underestimate the reserves

-Kobe24-TJ19-
06-03-2010, 05:48 PM
Bosh and Lebron coming to Chicago my friend.

:laugh:

D1JM
06-03-2010, 05:50 PM
Say the Knicks do get LeBron and Bosh this offseason. I hear so much talk that the Knicks don't have depth and therefore, even with LeBron and Bosh, won't be a top 3 team.

Depth? The Celtics practically traded their entire team for Garnett and Ray Allen. In 2007-08, Rondo and Perkins were every bit as raw as Wilson Chandler and Danilo Gallinari are now.

So my question is, how is a LeBron, Bosh, Gallinari, Chandler and Toney Douglas combination any worse than the 2007-08 version of the Big Three, Rondo and Perk?

It's not. LeBron and Bosh haven't even entered their prime yet, while the Big Three were past it once they were assembled on the Celtics. Gallinari and Chandler can blossom under the tuteledge of LeBron, Bosh and D'Antoni, quite like Rondo and Perk developed under the Big Three and Doc Rivers.

I really don't see how the Knicks wouldn't at least be between 1-5 in terms of best teams in the NBA.

As you saw in 2007, the Celtics used their mid level to sign Posey and Eddie House, two key pieces. They then signed PJ Brown to the minimum (because he wanted to win a championship). Whose to say the Knicks can't get two key guys with the midlevel and then get a vet who wants to win a championship?

This team (with LeBron and Bosh) will have every bit the depth as the 2007-2008 version of the Celtic had.

knicks dont have the mle

D1JM
06-03-2010, 05:51 PM
also, D'Antoni aint no doc rivers

IrespectNumber3
06-03-2010, 05:51 PM
There's only one Lebron James...Im sure he can't play on 5 different teams...

And for now he's in Cleveland...all this talk is crazy talk

bkmikeyy
06-03-2010, 05:52 PM
The Celtics had a huge advantage - trades over FA signings. They started over the cap. Because the Knicks will be under it, they don't get a MLE. Also the Celts had some other young pieces even after the trades, so they didn't actually deal the whole team. They still had Tony Allen (who had played great when healthy the year before), Rondo, Perk, and Leon Powe. They also aquired Big Baby in the Ray deal. Finally, the Knicks wouldn't have the right mix. The Celts had a true defensive C - the Knicks will not. The Knicks, if they add Lebron and Bosh, will not be ablt to add other pieces and will play no defense because they will be undersized. They would be a 4-5 seed in the East and maybe win a round. In year 2, after they get another offseason to add some role players, they could start to compete for a championship.

First off...Gallo, Chandler, Douglas, Walker is not worse than a young rondo, young perk and tony allen and powe.
Rondo averaged 6 and 4 the year before (10 and 5 the year with 3 hall of famers, and perkins averaged 7 and 6 the year they won). Ill take two players just as young as those two were that both averaged 15 ppg, a young solid defensive PG in douglas and a solid bench player in Walker over that.
They also have draft picks and might buy one in the late first round (something the celtics didn't have). They have an expiring contract of Eddy Curry which could easily get them two role players that are better than house and posey. then they can sign house and someone else for the veterans minimum if they want.

Ill take 25 year old Bosh and Lebron over Allen, Pierce and Garnett all in their 30s any day as well.

People got to stop trying to put the Knicks down. The Heat are no better for Lebron and Bosh, their only talent is Beasely and they are trying to get rid of him for cap space. Would it be better if Lebron was on a team with Bosh, Haslem, Chalmers, Arroyo and 6-7 million left to spend?!
Or the Bulls who cannot get Bosh for Lebron, if they do they would have to at least part with Noah. Is he really that much better off playing with Rose (who plays just like him), Noah, Deng and Hinrich? That team has no depth either after that.
Cavs are extremely old and terrible, Moon, Parker, Gibson, etc are not even NBA caliber players, Lebron made their careers. Shaq and Z are ancient. Jamison is washed up. Their only player under 25 is JJ Hickson and he made a living off open dunks because of lebron, hsi range stops at 6 feet. Varejao is extremely overrated as the "intangibles" guy as well, its not hard to find a hustle guy off the bench for the veterans minimum. That team has maxed out their salary cap with overrated and washed up players and will only get worse. If he stays in Cleveland he will never win a ring.
In New York he would join a team that has 4 players under contract past 2011 and make a total of 8 MILLION dollars. All these guys are under 24 and talented and will drastically imrpove when a winning attitude is brought to the team. They will no longer have to play with a starting PG that doesn't even rank in the top 50 in the NBA for his position, or deal with chucks like Al Harrington. No one will benefit more than Gallo, who can easily average 20 ppg next year if he has a real team around him, for those who watched the Knicks last year know that greedy dumb team avoided him on offense because they were all looking for their contract. Too many of his shots were shot clock buzzer beaters from 29 feet.

bkmikeyy
06-03-2010, 05:54 PM
also, D'Antoni aint no doc rivers

Check River's win percentage before the big 3 got there :facepalm:

People love to look for reasons to hate on the Knicks

D'antoni had a championship caliber team in an extremely tough western conference. They would have won it all that year when half the team got suspended. Plus they were close countless times even though they faced some of the best teams we have seen this decade constantly.

hugepatsfan
06-03-2010, 05:58 PM
First off...Gallo, Chandler, Douglas, Walker is not worse than a young rondo, young perk and tony allen and powe. They also have draft picks and might buy one in the late first round (something the celtics didn't have). They have an expiring contract of Eddy Curry which could easily get them two role players that are better than house and posey. then they can sign house and someone else for the veterans minimum if they want.

But they have a cluster**** of wings. Lebron, Galinari, Chandler are SFs. Chandler could play SG and Galinari could play PF, but then Bosh needs to be a C, which would eliminate them from title contention because they would be soft. If they deal Eddy Curry for a real C, then we'll talk. The Knicks should:

1.) sign Joe Johnson to a reasonable deal (not max)
2.) trade Curry and Wilson Chandler (draft pick might be needed) to MIN for Al Jefferson
3.) sign Brendan Haywood

I don't see Lebron coming to the Knicks and therefore Bosh won't. This gives them a decent starting 5 (Douglas, JJ, Galinari, Big Al, Haywood). Then hope they can add another player with the remaining cap room next year. it will take more than one year for the Knicks to be great, IMO.

beasted86
06-03-2010, 06:03 PM
Man are we ever skrewed!:cry: All we have is room for two maxes or trades and young players in a system where they can all score man I wish we had hope...:rolleyes:

Way to take a thread about a whole different topic out of context. :rolleyes:

We are comparing the 07-08 Celtics against the current Knicks if they sign Bosh & LeBron. This isn't a topic about how bright a future the Knicks have or don't have.

Tony_Starks
06-03-2010, 06:04 PM
Theyd be a lot worse. First off they're coached by D'Antoni.

Secondly besides the big 3 the Celtics had an entire team all the way down to the last guy on the bench. AND they all played defense... again see D'Antoni...

supporting cast

Rondo
Perkins
House
PJ Brown
James Posey
Tony Allen
Sam Cassell
Leon Powe

Basically they had about 10 really solid players and the Knicks would be forced to fill the roster out with scrubs.

Also Bosh is the leading scorer on a team where he shoots whenever he wants. Playing with someone who dominates the ball like Lebron would only drive his production down not up. Look at Jamison the guy has been like 19/10 his whole career and gets with Lebron and starts putting up single digits.....

jeter 2
06-03-2010, 06:07 PM
The Celtics had a huge advantage - trades over FA signings. They started over the cap. Because the Knicks will be under it, they don't get a MLE. Also the Celts had some other young pieces even after the trades, so they didn't actually deal the whole team. They still had Tony Allen (who had played great when healthy the year before), Rondo, Perk, and Leon Powe. They also aquired Big Baby in the Ray deal. Finally, the Knicks wouldn't have the right mix. The Celts had a true defensive C - the Knicks will not. The Knicks, if they add Lebron and Bosh, will not be ablt to add other pieces and will play no defense because they will be undersized. They would be a 4-5 seed in the East and maybe win a round. In year 2, after they get another offseason to add some role players, they could start to compete for a championship.

I have to disagree.

The Knicks will be short of a center, but that does not they cannot sign a decent center. Both of the O'Neals will be free agent and could possibly sign at the veterans minimum. Also Oberto is a free agent. The Spurs won a title in 2007 with Oberto starting. They basically need a center who can run the floor and get some boards. Also Dantoni had Amare playing center. So I expect you would see some of that from the Knicks if Lebron and Bosh ever came to New York.

Off the bench, we would have Walker and Chandler. Walker played very well since the Celtics traded him to us and Chandler is a good player. I think both of those players are better talents then Davis, Powe and Tony Allen. So we do have players on our roster.

You may be right that the Knicks could get much better in 2011, but I disagree with the notion that they will not be championship caliber in 2010.

bkmikeyy
06-03-2010, 06:11 PM
But they have a cluster**** of wings. Lebron, Galinari, Chandler are SFs. Chandler could play SG and Galinari could play PF, but then Bosh needs to be a C, which would eliminate them from title contention because they would be soft. If they deal Eddy Curry for a real C, then we'll talk. The Knicks should:

1.) sign Joe Johnson to a reasonable deal (not max)
2.) trade Curry and Wilson Chandler (draft pick might be needed) to MIN for Al Jefferson
3.) sign Brendan Haywood

I don't see Lebron coming to the Knicks and therefore Bosh won't. This gives them a decent starting 5 (Douglas, JJ, Galinari, Big Al, Haywood). Then hope they can add another player with the remaining cap room next year. it will take more than one year for the Knicks to be great, IMO.

I agree some trades will have to be made. If Lebron signs with the Knicks Chandler is probably gone. He has good value though the guy is 23 years old on his rookie contract averaging 15 ppg. I can see an Eddy Curry and Chandler for Collison and Okafor type of trade. Okafor has one of the worst contracts in the NBA so the Hornets would do that deal, while the Knicks wont care becuase they have two of the top 15 players in the league locked up for 6 years so cap wont matter.

hugepatsfan
06-03-2010, 06:25 PM
I agree some trades will have to be made. If Lebron signs with the Knicks Chandler is probably gone. He has good value though the guy is 23 years old on his rookie contract averaging 15 ppg. I can see an Eddy Curry and Chandler for Collison and Okafor type of trade. Okafor has one of the worst contracts in the NBA so the Hornets would do that deal, while the Knicks wont care becuase they have two of the top 15 players in the league locked up for 6 years so cap wont matter.

I think that a PG like Collison is no good with LBJ. TD is the perfect type of player to start at PG for the Knicks - that's the last spot you guys should look for an upgrade.

Tony_Starks
06-03-2010, 06:27 PM
The cap is projected to be what 55milli? How much money would they have left over after signing 2 max's?

bkmikeyy
06-03-2010, 06:29 PM
I think that a PG like Collison is no good with LBJ. TD is the perfect type of player to start at PG for the Knicks - that's the last spot you guys should look for an upgrade.

Just an example... but I agree TD would have his major deficiency (passing) covered and he is a really solid defender and shooter. But Curry and Chandler can easily be used to add size and depth. As for the 9th,10th and 11th guys on the bench the veterans minimum is more than enough for those players. They can sign Barron, TMac and House for example to fill that role. Barron has shown he can be a solid big man off the bench. So then all the Knicks are really missing is a starting C (which about 80% of the league doesn't have btw) and that can be solved by taking on the awful contracts of either Okafor, Beidrins or a few other ones I can't think of off the top of my head for Currys contract.

jeter 2
06-03-2010, 06:30 PM
Theyd be a lot worse. First off they're coached by D'Antoni.

Secondly besides the big 3 the Celtics had an entire team all the way down to the last guy on the bench. AND they all played defense... again see D'Antoni...

supporting cast

Rondo
Perkins
House
PJ Brown
James Posey
Tony Allen
Sam Cassell
Leon Powe

Basically they had about 10 really solid players and the Knicks would be forced to fill the roster out with scrubs.

Also Bosh is the leading scorer on a team where he shoots whenever he wants. Playing with someone who dominates the ball like Lebron would only drive his production down not up. Look at Jamison the guy has been like 19/10 his whole career and gets with Lebron and starts putting up single digits.....

When I counted, there were 8 players. I bet you if you look at the salaries, most of the players made around the veterans minimum. Also, Chris Bosh is a better talent than Jamison and they are different players. Bosh is more of an inside player and Jamison is more of a perimeter player. Bosh has a higher field goal percentage than Jamison. Maybe you should watch USA basketball because it seemed like Bosh and James worked well together.

D'Antoni is one of the best coaches in the NBA. He is able to maximize the production of his players. When Phoenix hired Michael Curry, you make it seem like that was an upgrade. In Phoenix, Steve Nash and Amare Stoudemire were not superb defenders. Well the Knicks have some players that are committed to defense.

D1JM
06-03-2010, 06:32 PM
Its all about players buddy...all about the players on the roster there squirt.

D Antoni hasnt won nothing in the nba. Plus, you knick fans think that players will all of sudden sign for the players minimum when they are trying to get paid before the cba and before there is a lockout.

ldc62
06-03-2010, 06:35 PM
Everyone rags on Bosh bout Defense... lets be realistic here, you are only as good as your team on D. When Bosh was out the Raptors' D was much worse (says a lot when you are last).

jeter 2
06-03-2010, 06:38 PM
D Antoni hasnt won nothing in the nba. Plus, you knick fans think that players will all of sudden sign for the players minimum when they are trying to get paid before the cba and before there is a lockout.

Let me guess this right, the Bulls have a head coach that has won an NBA title on his own. Also, their head coach has more success than D'Antoni in the NBA.

bkmikeyy
06-03-2010, 06:38 PM
The Knicks would be better on D than this year. Douglas is a much better defender than Duhon and defense starts at the point, Duhon let too many people blow by him forcing guys like Lee to be vulnerable. Lazy slobs like Hughes, Harrington etc will be gone. Lebron is one of the better defenders in the NBA. Bosh is better than Lee. The top 4 defenders on the Knicks surprisingly is the 4 guys that are still under contract. They will never be defensive juggernauts but i expect that line up to be in the top 20 at least lol.

NYKnicks4511
06-03-2010, 07:01 PM
Could they win 60+ games sure, but they would not win a championship with those 5 as starters.

Even though Rondo and Perkins weren't that great on offense they still played great defense that year. KG and Pierce were also great defenders.

Douglas, Gallo, Bosh are not good defenders at all. They could be like the Suns, make it deep in the playoffs cause of offense, but won't make it to the finals.

@Bolded
Toney Douglas was the ACC Defensive Player of the Year his Senior season. Gallinari averages almost a block and a steal per game and at season's end was the team's best defender - taking on the likes of Melo, LeBron, etc. Bosh may not be Garnett on the defensive end, but he sure isn't David Lee. At least Bosh contests shots and rebounds on every possession.

Anyways..
Was Ray Allen known as a defensive 'stopper' in Seattle, or was Paul Pierce an All NBA Defender? No. Because of Garnett's leadership, Rondo's pesky defense, and Perkins' solidness in the middle their scheme made them a great defensive team.

I don't understand why the Knicks always get so much hate, if we put out a lineup of Toney Douglas, Wilson Chandler, LeBron James, Danilo Gallinari, and Chris Bosh, we'd be instant title contenders. OP is right, Rondo ('08 season) and Douglas are comparable at the point guard position, Chandler has a great mid range/ slashing game, and Gallinari can shoot the lights out comparable to Ray ray.

Until then..I guess we'll just have to wait for July to come around.

tr4shb0t
06-03-2010, 08:11 PM
where's the killer instinct?

Sixerlover
06-03-2010, 08:14 PM
Rondo + Perkins were defensive players in perfect positions for the team. Gallo and Wilson are both Forwards and your bringing in two more forwards. Not a good comparison.

PV2nice
06-03-2010, 08:20 PM
But as it stands, Doc Rivers is a better coach than Mike D, no question.

Doc rivers had 3 elite players meaning potential hall of fame players. Mike D had various of good/all star players, and we all know the all star selection is a fan based vote! That being said Mike D hopefully will have 3 Elite players come July and 2011! So saying Mike D is not good is a bogus remark. If MikeD coached that same Celtics team he would of won the titles too and probably with some blowouts. You cant teach defense you have to want to do it! Thats why celtics were so good on defense. LBJ and cast will have that same drive so MikeD will only have to concentrate on offensive schemes!

That being said see records below of DOC and Mike D :facepalm:"Identical win pct"!

Oh yeah so you tell me Doc Rivers is a better coach than Sloan too right? Robert Horry is better than Karl Malone, Kendrick Perkins is Better than what Ewing was, the dumb drop out blonde who's screwing the boss and gets a raise is better than the employee with a masters making less money too RIGHT?

Championships makes you have more jewelry and makes you great water cooler talk not a better MAN, PLAYER , COACH, OWNER, GM etc etc . One more Scalabrini was a better Celtic than a NET because he has ring too!:confused:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/coaches/riverdo01c.html

http://www.basketball-reference.com/coaches/dantomi01c.html

5+7=DYNASTY!!!
06-03-2010, 08:30 PM
It will all depend on if they can actually get something for Curry's expiring(which I expect they will be able to).

NYK_kidd77
06-03-2010, 08:30 PM
Could they win 60+ games sure, but they would not win a championship with those 5 as starters.

Even though Rondo and Perkins weren't that great on offense they still played great defense that year. KG and Pierce were also great defenders.

Douglas, Gallo, Bosh are not good defenders at all. They could be like the Suns, make it deep in the playoffs cause of offense, but won't make it to the finals.

Spoken like someone who hasn't watched them play a single game.

valade16
06-03-2010, 08:42 PM
Way to take a thread about a whole different topic out of context. :rolleyes:

We are comparing the 07-08 Celtics against the current Knicks if they sign Bosh & LeBron. This isn't a topic about how bright a future the Knicks have or don't have.

As long as were on the subject though, I might as well put this Knick guy in his place...

Yeah, saying everyone on a D'Antoni team can shoot is like saying everyone in the world cup can kick a ball, not that impressive.

And your OH SO TALENTED future managed to throw down a whopping 29 games... in the East.

Your future isn't bleak, but it ain't rosy either...

That aside, this thread is a joke. The Celtics had Pierce, Allen, AND Garnett. That's a super talented threesome. And saying Rondo hadn't developed yet is insinuating that either Chandler or Gallinari are going to develop into a similarly good player as Rondo, something I HIGHLY doubt.

valade16
06-03-2010, 08:50 PM
Spoken like someone who hasn't watched them play a single game.

If you'd watched them play every game, you'd have seen them lose 53 freakin' times!!

If all these Knick players are so darned good, why did the Knicks only win 29 games last year?

As Parcells said: you are what your record says you are.

IF Gallo, Douglas, and Chandler can all score and play defense with ease, then what happened last year?

NYK_kidd77
06-03-2010, 09:02 PM
If you'd watched them play every game, you'd have seen them lose 53 freakin' times!!

If all these Knick players are so darned good, why did the Knicks only win 29 games last year?

As Parcells said: you are what your record says you are.

IF Gallo, Douglas, and Chandler can all score and play defense with ease, then what happened last year?

wtf way to exaggerate **** when did i state that they can score and play defense with ease?? He called them bad defenders which they are not. Gallo played basically his first season of NBA basketball and really stepped up his defensive game the 2nd half of the season. Douglas didn't play until the very end of the season but showed he can be a good defender. Chandler was hurt like 90% of last year but played through most of the injuries, he doesn't do anything great but is a nice all around player.

Dieselpi
06-03-2010, 09:05 PM
If you'd watched them play every game, you'd have seen them lose 53 freakin' times!!

If all these Knick players are so darned good, why did the Knicks only win 29 games last year?

As Parcells said: you are what your record says you are.

IF Gallo, Douglas, and Chandler can all score and play defense with ease, then what happened last year?

well then that should speak volumes for the nets.

valade16
06-03-2010, 09:36 PM
@Bolded
Toney Douglas was the ACC Defensive Player of the Year his Senior season. Gallinari averages almost a block and a steal per game and at season's end was the team's best defender - taking on the likes of Melo, LeBron, etc. Bosh may not be Garnett on the defensive end, but he sure isn't David Lee. At least Bosh contests shots and rebounds on every possession.

Anyways..
Was Ray Allen known as a defensive 'stopper' in Seattle, or was Paul Pierce an All NBA Defender? No. Because of Garnett's leadership, Rondo's pesky defense, and Perkins' solidness in the middle their scheme made them a great defensive team.

I don't understand why the Knicks always get so much hate, if we put out a lineup of Toney Douglas, Wilson Chandler, LeBron James, Danilo Gallinari, and Chris Bosh, we'd be instant title contenders. OP is right, Rondo ('08 season) and Douglas are comparable at the point guard position, Chandler has a great mid range/ slashing game, and Gallinari can shoot the lights out comparable to Ray ray.

Until then..I guess we'll just have to wait for July to come around.

:speechless:

Even in the 08 season Rondo was better... And now, the only way you'd compare Douglas to Rondo is to say they both play basketball, other than that, it's no comparison.

handbanana55
06-03-2010, 09:46 PM
Don't forget She-mac

Dieselpi
06-03-2010, 10:05 PM
:speechless:

Even in the 08 season Rondo was better... And now, the only way you'd compare Douglas to Rondo is to say they both play basketball, other than that, it's no comparison.

i dont think hes comparing them currently
thats delusional

Dieselpi
06-03-2010, 10:06 PM
Don't forget She-mac

tmac isnt under contract with the knicks

cav_till_i_die
06-03-2010, 10:09 PM
Man are we ever skrewed!:cry: All we have is room for two maxes or trades and young players in a system where they can all score man I wish we had hope...:rolleyes:

you forgot to mention a coach that will never win a championship

Mayweather&NYK
06-03-2010, 10:11 PM
The biggest difference is NO MLE FOR THE KNICKS!!!

They also have Eddy Curry's 11million Expiring contract to trade....:facepalm:
YOu will all see the Dynasty formed come July 8th

THe celtics run to the finals after trading damn near the whole team is exactly what will happen with the Knicks the diff is

LBron..Bosh..??? >>> KG, Ray, Pierce (because of the age difference, we will be able to sustain relevance longer than 3-4 yrs)

oak2455
06-03-2010, 11:47 PM
Don't forget She-mac

another lost soul wonder what your next post will be:confused:

Boston Faithful
06-04-2010, 02:04 AM
Theyd be a lot worse. First off they're coached by D'Antoni.

Secondly besides the big 3 the Celtics had an entire team all the way down to the last guy on the bench. AND they all played defense... again see D'Antoni...

supporting cast

Rondo
Perkins
House
PJ Brown
James Posey
Tony Allen
Sam Cassell
Leon Powe

Basically they had about 10 really solid players and the Knicks would be forced to fill the roster out with scrubs.

Also Bosh is the leading scorer on a team where he shoots whenever he wants. Playing with someone who dominates the ball like Lebron would only drive his production down not up. Look at Jamison the guy has been like 19/10 his whole career and gets with Lebron and starts putting up single digits.....

Everyone is just completely dimissing the fact that PJ Brown and Cassell signed mid-season to minimum contracts. And Posey and House were signed with the midlevel.

Tony Allen was looked at as no better than Bill Walker is right now.

After that trade they had Rondo, Perkins, Powe and Tony Allen. And everyone is looking at those guys in how good they are today, not how good they were then.

This is coming from a Celtics fan.

bkmikeyy
06-04-2010, 03:06 AM
Everyone is just completely dimissing the fact that PJ Brown and Cassell signed mid-season to minimum contracts. And Posey and House were signed with the midlevel.

Tony Allen was looked at as no better than Bill Walker is right now.

After that trade they had Rondo, Perkins, Powe and Tony Allen. And everyone is looking at those guys in how good they are today, not how good they were then.

This is coming from a Celtics fan.

THANK YOU
some people just don't get it. Yes Perkins and Rondo are very good players right now and no one is guaranteeing any of the Knicks current core to be better. But the year they won the ship, both of those guys were nothing special and Rondo was not necessarily better than Douglas will be this year. (Rondo averaged 10 and 5 with 3 hall of famers in the line up, Douglas can do that with Bosh and Lebron). Douglas is also a very good defender (ACC defensive player of the year).
Whether you like it or not its not that hard for the Knicks to acquire decent depth. IF Lebron and Bosh sign that gives the 6 rotation players.
Trade Curry for a minimum of 1 rotation player...that's 7.
Buy a draft pick in the late 20s maybe get lucky in the second round (deep draft). 8 definite contributors (maybe 9)
Sign 2 people to veterans minimum (Kurt Thomas, Barron)
That's 10-11 rotation players, and i didn't do anything special in the example, all very realistic.

valade16
06-04-2010, 04:29 AM
THANK YOU
some people just don't get it. Yes Perkins and Rondo are very good players right now and no one is guaranteeing any of the Knicks current core to be better. But the year they won the ship, both of those guys were nothing special and Rondo was not necessarily better than Douglas will be this year. (Rondo averaged 10 and 5 with 3 hall of famers in the line up, Douglas can do that with Bosh and Lebron). Douglas is also a very good defender (ACC defensive player of the year).
Whether you like it or not its not that hard for the Knicks to acquire decent depth. IF Lebron and Bosh sign that gives the 6 rotation players.
Trade Curry for a minimum of 1 rotation player...that's 7.
Buy a draft pick in the late 20s maybe get lucky in the second round (deep draft). 8 definite contributors (maybe 9)
Sign 2 people to veterans minimum (Kurt Thomas, Barron)
That's 10-11 rotation players, and i didn't do anything special in the example, all very realistic.

Yeah very realistic :rolleyes:

How often does that happen. Once every 6 years? That's pretty darn lucky...

bkmikeyy
06-04-2010, 05:08 AM
Yeah very realistic :rolleyes:

How often does that happen. Once every 6 years? That's pretty darn lucky...

I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT AN ALL STAR. YES it is very realistic to find an end of the bench player in the second round. Regardless even if they don't it is the smallest part of the roster and basically changes nothing, stop trying to find tiny little holes just to say something.

http://www.mynbadraft.com/2009/round2/

In last years draft alone here are the early second round players (picks 31-46) who contribute to roster depth...Cuuningham, Summers, Young, Blair, Brockman, Jerebko, Brown, Meeks, Thorton, Budinger, Green... Thats 11 out of 15 picks (Knicks have two 38,39), that is not counting a few that are overseas and may contribute later.
Not every draft has this many, but this is considered a deep draft, and that's still not considering the possibility of the Knicks buying a pick in the 20s (lots are for sale, wont hurt their cap)

Evolution23
06-04-2010, 06:53 AM
haters these days lol

bostncelts34
06-04-2010, 09:32 AM
you call a team with the big 3, rondo,perk,posey,house,davis and later on PJ brown and Cassell to be equal to the Lebron/bosh knicks team? i dont think its even close. Main reason is defense, celtics had an elite one, knicks would not.

Da Knicks
06-04-2010, 10:22 AM
Keep up the hate we love it!

oak2455
06-04-2010, 10:28 AM
Cant wait til JULY 1st........Then everyone can shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap ::clap::clap::clap::clap:

Reyn0900
06-04-2010, 10:37 AM
Look at it like this:

James + Bosh = Kobe + Gasol

Artest, Odom, Bynum, Fisher>>>>>>>>> Gallinari, Chandler, Duhon (whoever else)

Undoubtedly if the Knicks end up with James & Bosh they will have to decimate the rest of their team through sign and trade scenarios (in order for Bosh and James to get MAX money). So there is no way they will be true contenders in the first year – It would be at least a couple years before the Knicks could put together a supporting cast good enough to compete against the Lakers/Celtics/Suns/Magic.

Hustla23
06-04-2010, 10:42 AM
LOL.

I think people are severely underestimating how good Lebron is and, to some extent, how good Bosh is.

Lebron - Bosh would be the best 1-2 punch in the NBA, bar none.

You can get shooters and defenders from the draft and from free agency.

As long as you put the main pieces in place, the rest will fall into place.

But whatever, good discussion. I like the reasons thrown back and forth and I'm glad to see it hasn't dwindled into a debate about who is getting who.

Carey
06-04-2010, 10:53 AM
Gallo fits well as a shooter, Chandler as a slasher, maybe Barron as a backup Center but they are still really thin up front in this scenerio defensively. Also who else out on the wing takes the responsibility defensively because obviously you dont want Lebron guarding the best perimeter scorer every night. Still concerned with the consistency at the pg spot. I like TD and Sergio but not sure how consistent either would be night in and night out. I think they'd be a 4th seed in the east. But really this is assuming the rest of the roster stays the same, im sure they add some veteran pieces just like Boston did with PJ Brown, Sam Cassell, etc.

ldc62
06-04-2010, 11:21 AM
I don't understand.... I hate Lebron, but why does no one realize how good he is. He does make players better. Also Bosh is a 20 and 10 guy in this league and no matter how you look at it he is one of the best PFs in the game.

nynicks
06-04-2010, 11:44 AM
like always every 1 hating on the knicks please the cavs if it wasnt for labron would suck u take labron away from cavs the knicks a better team so just think if u added labron to the knicks and if you look galo was considered a rookie bc no game time last year and had 15pg 5reb and 2ass at 21 and chandler getting better and douglas was just a rookie but heating it up at the end so of course they r gonna be one of the top teams and size we can sign earl barron who played good

Da Knicks
06-04-2010, 11:57 AM
We dont need sign and trades we have enough to sign both outright and have Lee, Mcgrady, Harrington, Duhon for potential sign and trades without losing anything from our current roster since we own their bird rights if you know what im talking about...

greg_ory_2005
06-04-2010, 12:10 PM
We dont need sign and trades we have enough to sign both outright and have Lee, Mcgrady, Harrington, Duhon for potential sign and trades without losing anything from our current roster since we own their bird rights if you know what im talking about...

Wouldn't you lose their rights if you sign Lebron and Bosh first?

nycericanguy
06-04-2010, 12:14 PM
Wouldn't you lose their rights if you sign Lebron and Bosh first?

no we wouldnt, he was talking about S&T's.

Da Knicks
06-04-2010, 12:31 PM
If you would sign Lebron and Bosh first you would have to see what kind of contracts they would want. If they wanted a long contract then you could do a sign and trade involving Curry in there making new york have more cap space. My thinking is Lebron wants a 3 year contract to get a new contract later on and keep pressure on his current or new team. Bosh would be the one who would want a long contract and that is where a sign and trade of Lee would work for both clubs...Remember all of these free agents are in the driver seat and dont want to go to a bare team...

Team*Chicago
06-04-2010, 01:29 PM
I'm not even going to lie or hate, the Knicks would be good enough to compete for a championship but not good enough to win a championship even if they aquired Chris and LeBron because the Knicks aren't trying to build a championship team they are just trying to build a great successful team because they don't draft right, they don't develope their rookies because they are too busy getting rid of them, they are also to busy trying to snag up other team's good players, they won't have a 1st round pick til 2013 and they don't build a good team to give free agents a reason to play for the Knick beside they play in New York City.

The Boston Celtics made it to the playoffs once before the big 3 arrived and they worked and developed Rajon Rondo and made Kendrick Perkins a physical role player Center. The Knicks aren't doing none of that stuff with their current players besides trying to get rid of them for more cap space. The Knicks waive Patrick Ewing Jr and traded Jordan Hill off their team instead of working with them and let them develope. If LeBron and Chris signed with the Knicks they'll become the super New York Cavaliers on steriods that keep making it to the Finals and losing, the only difference is the team would be run through 2 players instead of 1.

commonsense12
06-04-2010, 01:32 PM
As long as were on the subject though, I might as well put this Knick guy in his place...

Yeah, saying everyone on a D'Antoni team can shoot is like saying everyone in the world cup can kick a ball, not that impressive.

And your OH SO TALENTED future managed to throw down a whopping 29 games... in the East.

Your future isn't bleak, but it ain't rosy either...

That aside, this thread is a joke. The Celtics had Pierce, Allen, AND Garnett. That's a super talented threesome. And saying Rondo hadn't developed yet is insinuating that either Chandler or Gallinari are going to develop into a similarly good player as Rondo, something I HIGHLY doubt.

Celtics won only 24 games before KG and RA got there. That was with Pierce, Rondo and Perkins. Bosh and LBJ is better then KG and RA so why wouldnt there be more of an improvement. Also how do you know Gallo and Chandler dont develop into players better then Rondo, The answer is you dont, you are just hating.

Oh and for everyone else saying that Doc is a better coach then Dantoni, you do realize that before KG and RA got there he had a record of 273-312 right?

Way too many haters on this forum. Actually its prob not hate, its prob more fear, because you know if LBJ and Bosh comes to NY you will be screwed LOL.

commonsense12
06-04-2010, 01:40 PM
I'm not even going to lie or hate, the Knicks would be good enough to compete for a championship but not good enough to win a championship even if they aquired Chris and LeBron because the Knicks aren't trying to build a championship team they are just trying to build a great successful team because they don't draft right, they don't develope their rookies because they are too busy getting rid of them, they are also to busy trying to snag up other team's good players, they won't have a 1st round pick til 2013 and they don't build a good team to give free agents a reason to play for the Knick beside they play in New York City.

The Boston Celtics made it to the playoffs once before the big 3 arrived and they worked and developed Rajon Rondo and made Kendrick Perkins a physical role player Center. The Knicks aren't doing none of that stuff with their current players besides trying to get rid of them for more cap space. The Knicks waive Patrick Ewing Jr and traded Jordan Hill off their team instead of working with them and let them develope. If LeBron and Chris signed with the Knicks they'll become the super New York Cavaliers on steriods that keep making it to the Finals and losing, the only difference is the team would be run through 2 players instead of 1.

Wow you are wrong on so many levels. First they have a new coach and GM, so saying the knicks dont draft right is according to an old regime. Next they dont develop players...what the hell is Gallo, Chandler and Douglas? They do have a 1st round draft choice in 2011 its just possibly swapped with houston. Oh and are you seriously talking patrick ewing jr...if he had so much potential where is he now? I think his d-league team waived him. Plus trading Jordan Hill allowed the Knicks to sign 2 maxs, so there was a reason it was done. Other then all that i corrected great post lol.

Hugbees
06-04-2010, 01:49 PM
Much of these people that think that do this because that outcome would mean their team would be missing out on said players. Notice the amount of bulls, heat, etc fans that are chiming in. You'll see, it's instinctual.

E.O.21
06-04-2010, 01:56 PM
I dont really get this thread

Da Knicks
06-04-2010, 01:56 PM
Let them hate on us more it makes us stronger what would be better for lebron to go to a team everyone hates and win or just stay and be an afterthought? Every arena next year will be packed to see Lebron the smartest business man in basketball!

if you hate him you will watch if you love him you will watch mission accomplished Lebron now go to the team everyone likes to hate!

ManRam
06-04-2010, 02:00 PM
I dont really get this thread

I don't either. Not much of it is productive and it's all just speculation. We have plenty of threads for that.

I'm shutting this one down.

LBJ and CB4 talk can be found here anyways http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showthread.php?t=491521