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View Full Version : Cashner to pen in Iowa. Cubs pen next?



ty_smitty21
05-27-2010, 01:26 PM
Rotoworld just reported that Cashner is now going to be used in the pen in Iowa. This pretty much guarantees it will be him getting the call next week when Z moves back to the rotation. This also probably means it will be Gorzelanny headed to the pen as well.

Some people are worried about this move. I think it could really help us, obviously if he does well. Mid 90's fastball will be a nice addition to this bullpen. I wonder if we will throw him right into the fire in the late innings.

The Cardinals used Wainwright in their pen his first year, and it worked out great... and it didn't hurt wainwright's future as a starter. Maybe the same can happen with Cashner.

Doogolas
05-27-2010, 01:27 PM
****ing dumbasses.

redwhitenblue
05-27-2010, 01:28 PM
****ing dumbasses.
Yeaahh...let's mess around with his endurance.

Doogolas
05-27-2010, 01:30 PM
Yeaahh...let's mess around with his endurance.

It wouldn't be a big deal if it was mid June. Then he could get to that 150IP mark. But this is just dumb as hell.

CUBDOM4life
05-27-2010, 01:30 PM
Remember Jeff Samardzija?

Jilly Bohnson
05-27-2010, 01:31 PM
The problem is his number of innings. Last year he threw 120 innings. And so ideally, we get him to 150 this year, then next year he can throw 180ish, and then in 2012 the reigns are off. Moving him to the pen will limit his number of innings. BUt honestly, if we use him like we used Marmol in 2007 and then maybe have him get a few winter league starts he should probably hit that innings mark.

Jilly Bohnson
05-27-2010, 01:31 PM
Remember Jeff Samardzija?

http://understandingshyness.files.wordpress.com/2009/10/apples-and-oranges.jpg

StrandedCub
05-27-2010, 01:35 PM
Here is Cashner's take on it.


Cubs prospect right-hander Andrew Cashner will begin to pitch out of the bullpen with Triple-A Iowa.
"It surprised me when I first heard about it," said Cashner, who went 3-0 with a 0.95 ERA over his first three starts at Triple-A. "I talked to (the Chicago Cubs) about going to relief a while back, but it was always their thought that I was going to start. Working out of the bullpen is something right now that excites me." It's a minor surprise, but this is the quickest way for the 23-year-old to find his way to the major leagues.

Rotoworld (http://www.rotoworld.com/Content/playerpages/player_main.aspx?sport=MLB&id=5577)

ty_smitty21
05-27-2010, 01:35 PM
It wouldn't be a big deal if it was mid June. Then he could get to that 150IP mark. But this is just dumb as hell.

I'm not sure the beginning of June and mid June make that much of a difference.

This is a 2 part move. Z has to regain his form in the rotation.. and Cashner needs to produce in the pen. 2 very big if's, but if they work out, the Cubs might be in a lot better shape.

Jilly Bohnson
05-27-2010, 01:36 PM
My only fear is that he becomes our Joba Chamberlain, and he does so well that we're afraid to move him back to the rotation.

Kirel
05-27-2010, 01:39 PM
My only fear is that he becomes our Joba Chamberlain, and he does so well that we're afraid to move him back to the rotation.
Which is a risk certainly, but I don't think it's likely to happen. The Cubs are going to need starters in a big way soon.

Marlin Bystro
05-27-2010, 01:41 PM
Cashner sounds pretty pumped about and his stuff translates very well to that role and clearly we need help there....Cough. Cough. Bob Howry.

Diehardcub
05-27-2010, 01:43 PM
****ing dumbasses.

+2. I'm ****ing speechless. If that really happens why the **** have they been pitching Jackson out of the bullpen, only to not call him up and use him in the pen. Jackson is a future starter, so if their not going to use him in the pen with the big league club they've just wasted everybody's time. Especially Jackson's. God, I hate seeing them throwing pitchers around like this. Cashner needs as much experience as a starter as he can get. Why **** that up?

ty_smitty21
05-27-2010, 01:43 PM
Cashner was a closer is college. he's got the stuff for the role. Let's hope he embraces it. As for next year, probably about a 95% chance Cashner is in our rotation next year. I don't expect us to resign Lilly... and I think we'll try to trade Z.

Jilly Bohnson
05-27-2010, 01:44 PM
Which is a risk certainly, but I don't think it's likely to happen. The Cubs are going to need starters in a big way soon.

That's true. And also, I think Lou leaving helps. If Lou were to stay I could see him pushing to keep him in the pen, but with him gone after this year I can see Hendry or whoever the new guy is ensuring that he gets a chance to start.

Marlin Bystro
05-27-2010, 01:46 PM
Just realized that Jackson is going back to start....That is weird to say the least.

Solid Snake
05-27-2010, 01:46 PM
My only fear is that he becomes our Joba Chamberlain, and he does so well that we're afraid to move him back to the rotation.

This is true. But the Cubs didn't make Marmol fully a reliever until he had shown a drastic difference in performance between starting and relieving. I'd assume they will do something similar, with Cashner getting a shot to show he can start next year.

He's looked so awesome as a starter. I don't think you can just own the minors at every stop like Cashner has, without having serious potential as a starter. Obviously his secondary pitches have come a long way, and he might become a strikeout/groundout/control specialist. Which simply means awesome pitcher.

There's nothing wrong with breaking in a starter through the bullpen.

Jilly Bohnson
05-27-2010, 01:47 PM
Cashner sounds pretty pumped about and his stuff translates very well to that role and clearly we need help there....Cough. Cough. Bob Howry.

I'm really excited to see him. He has a potential for a Neftali Feliz type impact for us out of the pen. And as a 2-3 inning reliever he still gets his innings. This has potential to work very well for both Cashner and the 2010 Cubs.

Kirel
05-27-2010, 01:49 PM
This is true. But the Cubs didn't make Marmol fully a reliever until he had shown a drastic difference in performance between starting and relieving. I'd assume they will do something similar, with Cashner getting a shot to show he can start next year.

He's looked so awesome as a starter. I don't think you can just own the minors at every stop like Cashner has, without having serious potential as a starter. Obviously his secondary pitches have come a long way, and he might become a strikeout/groundout/control specialist. Which simply means awesome pitcher.

There's nothing wrong with breaking in a starter through the bullpen.
Marmol got one shot at starting a bit too early and then was shoehorned as a reliever. He was a pretty good minor league starter.

Diehardcub
05-27-2010, 01:50 PM
Which is a risk certainly, but I don't think it's likely to happen. The Cubs are going to need starters in a big way soon.

I sure hope not. So far, he's proven he can be a very good SP someday IMO.

Ron!n
05-27-2010, 01:51 PM
What i dont understand is why they moved Jackson to the pen then switched him with Cashner. Guess they didnt like Jackson's stuff out of the pen?

toovey107
05-27-2010, 01:52 PM
Eh as long as he can get some winter ball starts and rack his innings up I'm fine with this I guess. I still wouldn't have done it, but I'm sure as hell excited to see him pitch. I think he is going to be the real deal.

Diehardcub
05-27-2010, 01:54 PM
What i dont understand is why they moved Jackson to the pen then switched him with Cashner. Guess they didnt like Jackson's stuff out of the pen?

Because their brain dead. He did fine out of the bullpen in Iowa.

Solid Snake
05-27-2010, 01:57 PM
Marmol got one shot at starting a bit too early and then was shoehorned as a reliever. He was a pretty good minor league starter.

Yea, but it was the way he failed that discouraged them. 59 walks, 5 HBP, 71 hits, 14 Hrs! in only 77 IP. Especially given how good his stuff was, that was a pretty bad way to fail at starting.

I actually start Marmol in the Show though. :D

Jilly Bohnson
05-27-2010, 01:58 PM
They might have just been doing it just to see how he does. He's not really in desperate need of innings like Cashner, so taking two weeks to see how he does out of the pen isn't a huge deal, since starting for the rest of the year he should still probably get 140 or 150 innings.

Str1fe5
05-27-2010, 02:12 PM
Well, Cashner only threw 100 innings last year, not 120. So 150 innings is about as high as I would be comfortable with him throwing. I'd really prefer it to be in that 130-140 IP range, something he could still do coming out of the pen this early.

I have no idea why they are holding off on Jackson, or why they have fooled around with Howry if they are moving Cashner to the pen. The only reason to move Cashner to the pen now would be to groom him for the majors in the imminent future. But adding both Cashner and Jackson to the pen this year bolsters our BP quite considerably while still getting them much needed experience at getting MLB hitters out.

Joba's problem was that he just never was quite as good a SP as people thought he would be, at least not right away. He moved to the rotation in both 2008 and 2009, and was a good 5th starter, but not a particularly good SP. With the re remergence of Hughes and Pettite's decision to Brett Favre it yet again, the Yankees found themselves in a very similar situation to the Cubs: 6 starting pitchers and major hole bridging the gap to their closer. The difference is the Yankees made the 100% right call in moving the younger guy with a proven track record of success in the BP, who has demonstrated that the gap between his SP output and his RP output is greater than the average (at least at this point in time). I don't think the Yankees have decided whether Joba is the Mariano in waiting or if he'll go back to the rotation when Pettite finally hangs them up yet, or what.

As far as Joba's progression up to the beginning of this year, I think the Yankees were 100% right in how they executed his usage, given a big market team is more concerned with getting their talent to contribute to the major league team in the fastest way possible without sacrificing his long term potential. The difference was that Joba had experience as a starter that Cashner did not have until now. If this means Cashner is another year away from being able to throw a full 200 IP, but helps our team make the post season this year and still allows him to throw 175ish IP when he otherwise could throw 200 IP, then I'm okay with it. We really need those extra 25 innings this year.

Jilly Bohnson
05-27-2010, 02:18 PM
Well, Cashner only threw 100 innings last year, not 120. So 150 innings is about as high as I would be comfortable with him throwing. I'd really prefer it to be in that 130-140 IP range, something he could still do coming out of the pen this early.

I have no idea why they are holding off on Jackson, or why they have fooled around with Howry if they are moving Cashner to the pen. The only reason to move Cashner to the pen now would be to groom him for the majors in the imminent future. But adding both Cashner and Jackson to the pen this year bolsters our BP quite considerably while still getting them much needed experience at getting MLB hitters out.

Joba's problem was that he just never was quite as good a SP as people thought he would be, at least not right away. He moved to the rotation in both 2008 and 2009, and was a good 5th starter, but not a particularly good SP. With the re remergence of Hughes and Pettite's decision to Brett Favre it yet again, the Yankees found themselves in a very similar situation to the Cubs: 6 starting pitchers and major hole bridging the gap to their closer. The difference is the Yankees made the 100% right call in moving the younger guy with a proven track record of success in the BP, who has demonstrated that the gap between his SP output and his RP output is greater than the average (at least at this point in time). I don't think the Yankees have decided whether Joba is the Mariano in waiting or if he'll go back to the rotation when Pettite finally hangs them up yet, or what.

As far as Joba's progression up to the beginning of this year, I think the Yankees were 100% right in how they executed his usage, given a big market team is more concerned with getting their talent to contribute to the major league team in the fastest way possible without sacrificing his long term potential. The difference was that Joba had experience as a starter that Cashner did not have until now. If this means Cashner is another year away from being able to throw a full 200 IP, but helps our team make the post season this year and still allows him to throw 175ish IP when he otherwise could throw 200 IP, then I'm okay with it. We really need those extra 25 innings this year.

He threw 20 in the AFL, so while that's not what it says on his BR page he definitely threw 120.

And yeah, I have no problem with bringing guys up through the bullpen, in fact, I like to push for it. The only problem with bringing Cashner up this early is the innings issue, which honesly isn't a huge deal assuming he pitches a lot. The problem with Joba is that they yo-yo'd him. Cashman wanted him to start, but everyone else was adamant about him being in the pen. Although yeah, the big reason he moved to the pen this winter is that they had 4 very good starters lined up and then Phil Hughes, so it's not like they planned on having him in the pen and junk like Sergio Mitre getting starts, which is what has happened.

Str1fe5
05-27-2010, 02:22 PM
http://www.chicagobreakingsports.com/2010/05/cashner-moves-to-bullpen-in-iowa.html

linkage

StrandedCub
05-27-2010, 02:37 PM
http://www.chicagobreakingsports.com/2010/05/cashner-moves-to-bullpen-in-iowa.html

linkage

Interesting...

1908_Cubs
05-27-2010, 03:34 PM
Seems like the logical move to me. Give him the opportunity to show back-to-back game ability, bring him up mid-June. Let him acclimate to the pro's in the pen. Get his innings up. We don't need starters in 2010, and he's obviously outclassing AAA pretty big.

It worked for Zambrano.

cubsbullsbears2
05-27-2010, 04:07 PM
That's true. And also, I think Lou leaving helps. If Lou were to stay I could see him pushing to keep him in the pen, but with him gone after this year I can see Hendry or whoever the new guy is ensuring that he gets a chance to start.

Very good point Jilly. I just wish they never would have moved Jackson to the pen for the 6 or 7 appearances he had. Completely useless if we werent going to call him up to the pen this year. He needs his innings as well...

chicagofan71
05-27-2010, 04:14 PM
IMO this is no big deal; Cashner could succeed as a starter despite being in the pen; Look at Hughes; granted he was hurt, but his ML innings have been pretty ****ed because of it, and he's turned out just fine. Although the inning increase is a solid theory that I believe in, it's not bulletproof. There's always exceptions

Wainwright made the jump of 70 to 200 innings in 2006, and besides his injury in 2008, he turned out just fine. Relax people

Tehjosha
05-27-2010, 05:02 PM
Hmmm...

I must say that I am a bit surprised by this, but I don't think that it's a bad move. It does, however, add more questions as to what is going to happen, IMO. Obviously, this probably mean that Cash will get the call soon and be inserted in to the pen.

But what about JJ? Is he being moved back to the rotation at Iowa? Will he be coming up to the pen as well? What moves will be made if both are brought up to the Cubs pen?

I look forward to seeing how Cash does. He has done very well in AAA, and there is still plenty of time this season for him to get his innings, even if they come from the pen. If Cash and JJ both come up to the pen, it could go from mediocre to solid very quickly.

Mell413
05-27-2010, 05:04 PM
Hmmm...

I must say that I am a bit surprised by this, but I don't think that it's a bad move. It does, however, add more questions as to what is going to happen, IMO. Obviously, this probably mean that Cash will get the call soon and be inserted in to the pen.

But what about JJ? Is he being moved back to the rotation at Iowa? Will he be coming up to the pen as well? What moves will be made if both are brought up to the Cubs pen?

I look forward to seeing how Cash does. He has done very well in AAA, and there is still plenty of time this season for him to get his innings, even if they come from the pen. If Cash and JJ both come up to the pen, it could go from mediocre to solid very quickly.

JJ did start today in Iowa

Matchstckman
05-27-2010, 05:13 PM
Yessss, can't wait to make some Cash Money shirts.

Jilly Bohnson
05-27-2010, 05:16 PM
Yessss, can't wait to make some Cash Money shirts.

If you make some sort of funny "Straight Cash Homey" Cashner/Randy Moss T-shirt I'll pay you probably a million dollars for it.

semperfi
05-27-2010, 05:17 PM
Don't know how this is going to work out. But at least we get to see him pitch soon.

zambo4president
05-27-2010, 05:19 PM
I like Cashner alot. Who knows if he's ready yet, I guess we'll know soon.

Solid Snake
05-27-2010, 06:29 PM
Player 1: 6-1 in 9 starts, 55 IP, 35 hits, 14 runs, 13 earned, 15 walks, 56 K's.
Player 2: 6-1 in 9 starts, 44 IP, 22 hits, 11 runs, 6 earned, 10 walks, 54 K's.

Which is Strasburg and which is Cashner?

chicagofan71
05-27-2010, 07:45 PM
Player 1: 6-1 in 9 starts, 55 IP, 35 hits, 14 runs, 13 earned, 15 walks, 56 K's.
Player 2: 6-1 in 9 starts, 44 IP, 22 hits, 11 runs, 6 earned, 10 walks, 54 K's.

Which is Strasburg and which is Cashner?

Player 2 is Strasburg

NORTH10
05-27-2010, 07:58 PM
I'm kind of a mix of this decision. I would love Cashner in the pen for the Cubs. Yet, the Adam Wainwright comparisons are a stretch. Wainwright threw a 150 innings + 4 times in the minors with 180 innings pitched in '05. The most innings Cashner has thrown is 100. If we are grooming him to become a starter, this hinders his development somewhat.

So I ask the question, should we really be messing with him? Are we true contenders in the NL that we need him that bad?