PDA

View Full Version : Jaramillo's Impact - Less Patience?



Acronym
05-21-2010, 09:49 PM
It's a slow night so maybe I'm just bored, but I think it's late enough in the season to start discussing what, if any impact the hitting coach switch has had.

Now, mainly anecdotally but I think the simpler stats back me up on this - I think Jaramillo has been telling the guys to swing more at the first couple pitches. The last couple games especially they have really been hacking away.

And it seems to be resulting in a lot of balls in play and higher AVG's, but less walks and a lower overall OBP. Obviously, this is bad. (Unless you're Dusty Baker)

Theriot and Byrd are premier examples (though Byrd never was one to walk much). Theriot's got a nice little .310 average going, but I would much rather see him get back towards that near-.400 OBP he used to sport.

Geo is the counter-example. Soriano always hacks away.

What do you guys think?

poodski
05-21-2010, 09:59 PM
Meh we are only down .6% in terms of walks compared to last year.

I am not too concerned, because while our walks are down our K's are down and our BA is up so our OBP is up by .006 from last year.

jiggin
05-21-2010, 10:59 PM
team goes through the same crap they did when Perry was the hitting coach, think Jaramillo will be fired as the fall guy? not in his first year of that big contract.


just shows how little a hitting coach actual effect has on the team's hitting
ranks right up there with the bullpen coach being a main reason for the bullpen's failures...LOL

Mell413
05-21-2010, 11:01 PM
I think it has more to do with the personnel we have more than what the coach is saying.

redwhitenblue
05-22-2010, 12:56 AM
team goes through the same crap they did when Perry was the hitting coach, think Jaramillo will be fired as the fall guy? not in his first year of that big contract.


just shows how little a hitting coach actual effect has on the team's hitting
ranks right up there with the bullpen coach being a main reason for the bullpen's failures...LOL
Actually, the offense improved when Perry was fired and Von Joshua took over. And the current ranks are right along the 2nd half of last year when Von Joshua took over.

So no, they aren't going through the same crap they did when Perry was the coach.

ty_smitty21
05-22-2010, 01:07 AM
This is crazy talk. Jaramillo is an incredible hitting coach. And he's actually doing a great job with our team. Lee and Ramirez are the reasons we aren't scoring consistent runs... you think that's Jaramillo's fault?

Look at the numbers for: Soriano, Soto, Fontenot, Theriot, Fukudome, Byrd, Colvin, Castro..... right now, I'd say EVERY ONE OF THEM is hitting better than expected.

A hitting coach can't get a clutch hit for you... that's been our biggest problem. We get 8 or 9 hits, and only 1 run.. like tonight... quite often.

Who in their right frickin mind would think its' jaramillo's fault? Look no further than Lee and Ramirez.

ggross
05-22-2010, 01:58 AM
Too bad there is no such thing as clutch... If there was, Rudy could fix it.
:facepalm:

jiggin
05-22-2010, 02:13 AM
Actually, the offense improved when Perry was fired and Von Joshua took over. And the current ranks are right along the 2nd half of last year when Von Joshua took over.

So no, they aren't going through the same crap they did when Perry was the coach.

awesome...so the low scoring affairs seem to continue no matter if its a minor league hitting coach brought up to finish out the year and then thrown back to the wolves or a well know hitting coach well regarded in the league and paid a crap load of money.

Thanks for proving my point even more regarding how the coaching position is completely over rated.

redwhitenblue
05-22-2010, 04:02 AM
awesome...so the low scoring affairs seem to continue no matter if its a minor league hitting coach brought up to finish out the year and then thrown back to the wolves or a well know hitting coach well regarded in the league and paid a crap load of money.

Thanks for proving my point even more regarding how the coaching position is completely over rated.
They're not that bad.

The offensive struggles suck because of the potential. Even with Lee and Ramirez struggling and only recently an acceptable lead off man in place, the team is still around the middle or better in most offensive categories.

If Lee and Ramirez ever start hitting, they'll likely be well above average.

Diehardcub
05-22-2010, 09:03 AM
Clutch hitting and Ramirez's and Lee's non existence is our primary problem. Kudos to Colvin last night. Huge pinch hit against a nasty reliever. To bad we wasted it. And Colvin should have been in the lineup last night instead of Nady, considering it was a right-handed pitcher. Stupid Lou.

scrubs101
05-22-2010, 10:20 AM
In the last 13 days, Soto's average has dropped 82 points and his OBP has dropped 70 points....0 extra base hits or RBI's in 40 PA's.

dayum

poodski
05-22-2010, 10:35 AM
This is crazy talk. Jaramillo is an incredible hitting coach. And he's actually doing a great job with our team. Lee and Ramirez are the reasons we aren't scoring consistent runs... you think that's Jaramillo's fault?

Look at the numbers for: Soriano, Soto, Fontenot, Theriot, Fukudome, Byrd, Colvin, Castro..... right now, I'd say EVERY ONE OF THEM is hitting better than expected.

A hitting coach can't get a clutch hit for you... that's been our biggest problem. We get 8 or 9 hits, and only 1 run.. like tonight... quite often.

Who in their right frickin mind would think its' jaramillo's fault? Look no further than Lee and Ramirez.

So we only give him credit for the teams successes not any of their faults?

ty_smitty21
05-22-2010, 12:10 PM
So we only give him credit for the teams successes not any of their faults?

How many faults do you see as a result of Jaramillo? Lee and Ramirez are aging, and haven't found their swings. They have both said they are their own hitting coach anyway, so I can't imagine them listening to too much from Rudy.

Just like Rothschild trying to deal with our pathetic bullpen... you can only work with the hand you are dealt. If our 2 best hitters were hitting, we would be scoring a TON of runs.

Our fans just try and find something to point the finger at. I think Lou's days are about done as a manager.... but Jaramillo and Rothschild are 2 of the better coaches in the game, and should NOT get blamed for this.

windycityD
05-22-2010, 12:35 PM
Any conversation about this offense starts and stops with the fact that 2008 was an aberration. Statistical, mystical, or otherwise. Just like in 2007, and during the exact same time frame as that season, we're losing way too many one run games. RISP is total **** & we're leaving too many on base in general. This line up is un clutch to say the least, and save 2008, has had this same issue before.

BB/K is .50 and we've taken 148 walks (only 5 of which are IBB) to 298 Ks. We're walking enough to facilitate more scoring. The team BA is at .267 and the team OBP is .337.

Rudy isn't a miracle worker and Lee and Ramirez are now 6.5 weeks into a collective hitting funk where both of them, at the same time, have been flailing and failing. If they don't hit, we don't win. It's that simple. Whether Lou has them hitting 3 and 5, 3 and 4, or 4 and 6, they have to produce for us to have any shot at all in the wild card race. This division is un-winnable for us.

zambo4president
05-22-2010, 01:10 PM
Less Patience isn't a bad thing, but it can't be your full time hitting philosophy.

Jilly Bohnson
05-22-2010, 01:16 PM
The difference in patience this year is probably about the difference between Byrd and Bradley. No one else has been noticeably less patient, an Soto's the only one who's been way more patient.

Diehardcub
05-22-2010, 01:29 PM
In the last 13 days, Soto's average has dropped 82 points and his OBP has dropped 70 points....0 extra base hits or RBI's in 40 PA's.

dayum

He's in a worse slump than I thought (that's probably because he's still taking walks). Soto is only 2 for his last 24. That's over his past 10 games. Byrd is 2 for his last 14. Now that those two are in slumps to go along with Lee and Ramirez season long slumps, its not hard to see why we are struggling so bad to score runs. That, and the lack of clutch hitting has been horrible as well.

WOwolfOL
05-22-2010, 07:51 PM
May has been absolutely awful. Really only Sori, Castro, and Byrd have produced.

Sasuke11
05-23-2010, 12:47 AM
May has been absolutely awful. Really only Sori, Castro, and Byrd have produced.

Fukes has produced a fair amount. Then again how can one expect anyone to stay consistent if they are constantly NOT starting every other game just because of a ****ing lefty starter.

windycityD
05-23-2010, 10:37 AM
The difference in patience this year is probably about the difference between Byrd and Bradley. No one else has been noticeably less patient, an Soto's the only one who's been way more patient.

Soto and Fukudome are both dipping some in May hitting wise, though. OBP is way important. But in the case of especially Soto, we need this guy to start producing more based on where he's hitting in the line up. There will always be the trade off of avg vs. OBP with Fukudome. But, based on where's he's hitting, you can sorta live with that.

GOCUBSGO20
05-23-2010, 11:07 AM
I really have not noticed a drastic decrease in patience thus far in 2010. IIRC, I thought I read that the Cubs had several players that were up there with league leaders in most pitches per at-bat (I want to say it was D Lee in April). IMO Rudy has a done a pretty impressive job, especially with players such as Fontenot, Soto, Fukudome, Soriano, and Byrd. Obviously, the clutch hitting has not been there yet this year but I think if/when D. Lee and Aramis start hitting, then that problem will take care of itself.

As the season goes on, I am really interested to see if Fukudome can avoid another second-half struggle. He has looked really good thus far with his lowered stance. Also, I am interested to see if Colvin and Castro can continue their impressive early-season showing.

Young2Kinsler
05-23-2010, 12:50 PM
Rudy is an amazing hitting coach, but one of his downfalls always talked about while in Texas was his lack of respect for being patient at the plate. For a team like the Rangers, with all of the young hitters, this was a bad thing. For the Cubs, with veterans up and down the lineup, it's not so bad.

Like it was said, it has made little difference from last year to this year so far for the Cubs, but it is something to watch.