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AI4MVP
05-19-2010, 02:49 AM
who do u think are the top 3 passers of all time??

1.Magic Johnson
2.Steve Nash
3.Jason Kidd

your thoughts?

_KB24_
05-19-2010, 02:57 AM
1. Magic
2. Kidd
3. Stockton

abe_froman
05-19-2010, 02:58 AM
no stockton??

valade16
05-19-2010, 02:58 AM
who do u think are the top 3 passers of all time??

1.Magic Johnson
2.Steve Nash
3.Jason Kidd

your thoughts?

Your list is missing the greatest pure passer of all-time. That would be JOHN STOCKTON!

Seriously! This guy could pass it anywhere on the floor at a moments notice.

To think of how good Nash's pick and roll passing has been it's like a 7 to Stockton's 10.

AI4MVP
05-19-2010, 02:59 AM
no disrespect to stockton. if i had a top 4 id put him in ther

Voodoo Alchemy
05-19-2010, 03:04 AM
another thread to showcase nash's stupid passing abilities into the teeth of a defense, causing another turnover. stick to what you know, have amare set a better pick so dfish can't fight over the screen and fck up the play.

Diggy_2
05-19-2010, 03:10 AM
1.Magic
2.Stockton
3.Kidd

Switch
05-19-2010, 03:11 AM
John Stockton.

Voodoo Alchemy
05-19-2010, 03:16 AM
john stockton.

^^^bro!!! Fk me!!! You have got to give me that sick azz sig!!! You are the man!!!

_KB24_
05-19-2010, 03:19 AM
Stockton's baseline bounce pass could make me jizz :drool:

tredigs
05-19-2010, 03:20 AM
It's actually pretty tough to name a true top 3 for best passer for me, so I'll give my favorites for different positions.

As far as guards, you can make arguments for:

Magic / Stockton / Nash / Kidd / Pistol (I think I'd take Magic, Stockton and Kidd in their prime in that order)

For forwards I'd go with:

Lebron / Bird

Centers:

Walton / Hakeem

valade16
05-19-2010, 03:44 AM
no disrespect to stockton. if i had a top 4 id put him in ther

Judging by the fact that your name is AI4MVP, and that you put both Nash and Kidd as 2 and 3 on the ALL-TIME LIST, I'd say there's a good chance you never watched basketball pre-2000.

What a shame...

Nash, as good as he's been, is not as good a passer as Stockton...

THE MTL
05-19-2010, 03:54 AM
no disrespect to stockton. if i had a top 4 id put him in ther

John Stockton is 1st all-time in assists in the NBA history and Jason Kidd (2nd all-time) is thousands of assists behind him. You kno that?

The guy almost averaged 15apg and this is in the 90's. SHAME ON YOU!

goldenstater
05-19-2010, 04:04 AM
1.Magic
2.Stockton
3.Kidd

This. Maybe Nash instead of Kidd but kid did it for longer. But magic and Stockton are clearly 1A.&1B. Those two are no brainers.

SNYmets86
05-19-2010, 04:07 AM
1. stockton
2. kidd
3. mark jackson

JJ_JKidd
05-19-2010, 04:20 AM
no stockton??

The thread starter is probably in his late teens. :rolleyes:

Kevj77
05-19-2010, 04:26 AM
1) Magic
2) Stockton
3) Kidd

I can't really comment on anyone before that I never saw them play. Magic is by far the best I've ever seen. To bad his career was cut short by HIV.

Kevj77
05-19-2010, 04:33 AM
1. stockton
2. kidd
3. mark jacksonReally? Marc Jackson over Magic? What a joke.

Lil Rhody
05-19-2010, 05:29 AM
aahhhhhhh Bob Cousy

calibird707
05-19-2010, 05:35 AM
What about pistol pete...

Korman12
05-19-2010, 05:37 AM
Stockton
Magic
Nash/Maravich/Kidd/Cousy. It's really hard to make the decision between those four for me.

AI4MVP
05-19-2010, 05:57 AM
yes i did watch basketball in the 90's. maybe nash has just captured my eye more becuz of all the great plays hes made while playing for my team. Its hard not to put him on the top three list when youve been faithfully watching him and he just does things that make you say "wow. i dont thikn anyone can do that"

and to the person question my name, its AI4MVP becuz of some similarities with our us. Although my game is more Nash-esque and im a pass first player with a great threepoint shot(over 70% in high school), some people forget to appreciate the passion and heart that AI played with, but thats a different story.

Anyways. I never said John Stockton wasnt a great passser, but in my honest opinion i could say that Magic is number 1 and Kidd, Nash, and Stockton are all tied for 2nd.

and hate on me all u want, Ricky Rubio will be in this discussion one day

valade16
05-19-2010, 06:53 AM
yes i did watch basketball in the 90's. maybe nash has just captured my eye more becuz of all the great plays hes made while playing for my team. Its hard not to put him on the top three list when youve been faithfully watching him and he just does things that make you say "wow. i dont thikn anyone can do that"

and to the person question my name, its AI4MVP becuz of some similarities with our us. Although my game is more Nash-esque and im a pass first player with a great threepoint shot(over 70% in high school), some people forget to appreciate the passion and heart that AI played with, but thats a different story.

Anyways. I never said John Stockton wasnt a great passser, but in my honest opinion i could say that Magic is number 1 and Kidd, Nash, and Stockton are all tied for 2nd.

and hate on me all u want, Ricky Rubio will be in this discussion one day

Everytime I watch Steve Nash I start to say that, then say "Oh, that's right, Stockton already did..."

97NYer
05-19-2010, 07:18 AM
Magic, Stockton, Nash

BRADfromOZ
05-19-2010, 07:44 AM
1. Stockton (3.742 assists per turnover)
2. Magic (2.89 assists per turnover)
3. Kidd

I always liked watching Magic's flashy passes but there was always something so simple and pure about Stockton's passes. The assist to turnover ratio is clearly in Stockton's favour too.

DisturbedFTW83
05-19-2010, 07:44 AM
yeah when i was a kid playing on the courts, I loved passing the ball, ala stockton, he's the man, I don't ever believe watching him play, he'd turn the ball over, that pick and roll revolutionized the game.

1. Stockton
2. Magic Johnson
3A. Nash
3B. Kidd they're both too good to pass up.

honorable mention: Rondo(if you're looking for flashy) the guy's been out of his mind in the playoff's.

DisturbedFTW83
05-19-2010, 07:48 AM
Really? Marc Jackson over Magic? What a joke.

i saw that too, just disregard it like you're seeing a homeless person on the side of the building. I mean, Magic Johnson not only played all 5 positions in a playoff game, he won at it too, Marc Jackson has ...... been a great announcer?

JasonJohnHorn
05-19-2010, 08:36 AM
How is Stockton not at the top of ever list? And why is cousy in none?

WTF!!!! Seriously. Does anybody here know anything about the game?

1. Stockton
2. Cousy
3. Travis Denier

Ok... maybe my third pick needs a litle work, but lets go outside the cliche "Magic" pick and go with...

Mark Jackson

RipVW
05-19-2010, 09:10 AM
Is flash involved? Is it purely production?

If its flashy:
Cousy
Jason Williams
Magic Johnson
Isaiah Thomas
Larry Bird


If its production:
Johnson
Stockton
Isaiah
Nash

In all, I would say:
Magic
Isaiah
Stockton

BTW, in case you didnt know Isaiah could pull off some of the craziest passes. The guy could be as flashy as anyone. He would usually show people more in all star games.

HouRealCoach
05-19-2010, 09:14 AM
no stockton??

Same thing I thought

Raidaz4Life
05-19-2010, 09:18 AM
1. Stockton
2. Magic
3. Kidd

xbrackattackx
05-19-2010, 09:19 AM
Pete Maravich
Jason Kidd
M.Johnson
Stockton(right there also)

JasonJohnHorn
05-19-2010, 09:21 AM
Really? Marc Jackson over Magic? What a joke.

Well... Jackson is higher on the all-time assist list than Magic, though Magic would have been higher had he it not been for his early retirement. Still, there is something to be said about how Jackson maintained a high level of play late into his career.

I think there is a case to put Jackson higher than Magic, though there is obviously a case for Magic to be over Jackson.

MacFitz92
05-19-2010, 09:30 AM
Magic
Bird
Kidd

Truheatfan
05-19-2010, 09:38 AM
1. Magic
2. Stockton
3. Kidd

AntiG
05-19-2010, 11:48 AM
1. Magic
2. Stockton
3. Cousy

ZioAx
05-19-2010, 11:53 AM
Bob Cousy

some of you kids :facepalm:

CowboysKB24
05-19-2010, 11:56 AM
Magic Johnson
John Stockton
Oscar Robinson

igPay atinLay
05-19-2010, 12:02 PM
1. Stockton
2. Magic
3. Oscar Robertson

THE_FLASH_21
05-19-2010, 12:04 PM
STOCKTON !!!!!! and its not even close!! Maybe Magic..

ManRam
05-19-2010, 12:15 PM
Stockton is easily the best passing point-guard ever...I'd go so far as to say he was way ahead of even Magic. His vision and creativity was just amazing. He also turned it over far less than any of his competition, especially Magic. I'll take Nash third.

I would love to hear someone justify a Pistol Pete nomination. That's crazy.

Best passing forwards (excluding Magic, who counts here too): Oscar (another multi-position guy), LeBron and then Bird.

As for Cousy....he revolutionized the position, and was arguably the first true PG in the sense that we consider that term today. But it's definitely become a more perfected art. I really struggle to put him in my top 5.

Lo Porto
05-19-2010, 12:18 PM
Stockton is the best all time no question. He is statistically and could make every single pass with a low turnover ratio.

Magic has to be in the top 3
#3 is a really, really hard call

td0tsfinest
05-19-2010, 12:22 PM
Magic, Stockton, Mavrich

ManRam
05-19-2010, 12:29 PM
Still waiting for someone to explain to me why Pistol Pete should be top 3. I know none (maybe a few) of us ever saw him play...but everything I've seen, heard, read etc. doesn't lead me to think he even sniffs the top 5.

ILLN355
05-19-2010, 12:32 PM
Derrick Rose
Derrick Rose
Derrick Rose

SNYmets86
05-19-2010, 01:20 PM
Really? Marc Jackson over Magic? What a joke.

dummy ... neva watched him play plus am young

$KnicksAndKobe$
05-19-2010, 02:09 PM
1.Stockton (duh)
2.Mark Jackson
3.Magic
4.Kidd
5.Nash

OT Thriller
05-19-2010, 02:11 PM
Pete Maravich
Jason Kidd
M.Johnson
Stockton(right there also)

The fact that it took until the 3rd page for someone to put Pistol Pete at the top is a joke.

1. Pistol
2. Magic
3. Stockton
4. Kidd

Gameover.

OT Thriller
05-19-2010, 02:13 PM
Still waiting for someone to explain to me why Pistol Pete should be top 3. I know none (maybe a few) of us ever saw him play...but everything I've seen, heard, read etc. doesn't lead me to think he even sniffs the top 5.

Just because you havent seen him play doesnt mean others havent. Do yourself a favor stop reading and actually watch the Pistols highlights. His passing skills were the best of his generation.

Seattlesports
05-19-2010, 02:18 PM
No love for the glove ,him and Kemp invented the alley oop.

OT Thriller
05-19-2010, 02:21 PM
No love for the glove ,him and Kemp invented the alley oop.

False, Jackie Moon and Coffee Black invented the alley oop...

jimbobjarree
05-19-2010, 02:21 PM
Stockton

jimbobjarree
05-19-2010, 02:22 PM
False, Jackie Moon and Coffee Black invented the alley oop...

this

C_Mund
05-19-2010, 02:30 PM
I gotta go with...
1. Magic
2. Pistol
3. Bird

C_Mund
05-19-2010, 02:35 PM
Still waiting for someone to explain to me why Pistol Pete should be top 3. I know none (maybe a few) of us ever saw him play...but everything I've seen, heard, read etc. doesn't lead me to think he even sniffs the top 5.

I put him up there because of the passes he was able to throw. He used to hit teammates in college and the pros in the back of the head because they weren't ready for what he had.
The problem with him is that he only knew how to stuff the stat sheet and put on a show, not necessarily win. There's a lot of people that can make the right pass, which I suppose makes them a better passer, but if we're talking about skill as a passer I'd say Pistol would be number one.

jackdawson
05-19-2010, 02:36 PM
1. Stockton
2. Magic
3. Nash/Kidd

This is as correct as I would get and I think most people would agree with this order.

cubbybear2290
05-19-2010, 02:38 PM
The fact that I have only read the first page and seen mark jackson be mentioned once is ridiculous. He was one of the greatest passers I cna remember so my top 3 would be in no particular order:

magic
action
stockton

AI4MVP
05-19-2010, 02:41 PM
my revised top 3 would be

1. Magic
2.Nash, Kidd, Stockton in no particular order
3.hmmm *thinking*

BkOriginalOne
05-19-2010, 02:53 PM
Magic number 1 for sure.
Then Stockton at number two.
Kidd or Nash could take 3.

Rondo is slowly creeping up.

AI4MVP
05-19-2010, 03:01 PM
three guys that will give this list a run in the future:Rubio, Rondo, Curry. If you havent watched Curry play and are one of those fans that just judge him from what hes critiscm was before he entered the league, then dont comment on this.

Curry is the best passing rookie ive ever seen

ManRam
05-19-2010, 03:09 PM
Just because you havent seen him play doesnt mean others havent. Do yourself a favor stop reading and actually watch the Pistols highlights. His passing skills were the best of his generation.

Umm...I admitted that maybe some people have watched him. I have seen plenty of footage of him, which I don't consider watching him play. Any documentary or video of him only highlights the great things he did. A documentary could make Rafer Alston look like the best passing PG ever.

My point is, everything I've heard, from people who actually watched him play (and by that, I mean multiple games in their entirety, not just some clips), admit that he wasn't an elite passer. He was flashy. He was exciting. But he'd get blown out of the water in terms of passing by some of the more recent PGs.

If he was the best of his generation, you'd think he would have finished top 5 in assists at least once his his career. He finished 7th twice, and those were the only two times he cracked the top 10. He was consistently behind guys like Tiny Archibald, Oscar, Wilkins, West, Dave Bing, Kevin Porter, Clyde Frazier...etc. Not to mention the fact that the first year they started keeping track of turnovers, he averaged 5.0 a game.

valade16
05-19-2010, 03:09 PM
three guys that will give this list a run in the future:Rubio, Rondo, Curry. If you havent watched Curry play and are one of those fans that just judge him from what hes critiscm was before he entered the league, then dont comment on this.

Curry is the best passing rookie ive ever seen

Do you know how far they will have to go to even be in the same ballpark as the above mentioned people??

ManRam
05-19-2010, 03:11 PM
three guys that will give this list a run in the future:Rubio, Rondo, Curry. If you havent watched Curry play and are one of those fans that just judge him from what hes critiscm was before he entered the league, then dont comment on this.

Curry is the best passing rookie ive ever seen

I guess you missed the 94-95 season (Kidd) and the 05-06 season (Paul) ;) Hell, I think Iverson was a better passer his rookie year.

J-Relo
05-19-2010, 03:13 PM
Magic number 1 for sure.
Then Stockton at number two.
Kidd or Nash could take 3.

Rondo is slowly creeping up.

I agree with Magic and Stockton being at the top, Kidd and Nash sharing the third, but i wouldn't name any current players, especially Rondo.

jackdawson
05-19-2010, 03:14 PM
three guys that will give this list a run in the future:Rubio, Rondo, Curry. If you havent watched Curry play and are one of those fans that just judge him from what hes critiscm was before he entered the league, then dont comment on this.

Curry is the best passing rookie ive ever seen

You haven't seen Chris Paul's rookie year for sure.

AI4MVP
05-19-2010, 03:22 PM
I guess you missed the 94-95 season (Kidd) and the 05-06 season (Paul) ;) Hell, I think Iverson was a better passer his rookie year.

ok yes. statistically they were better then curry, but if u watched him ud know what i was talking about. i havene seen court vision like curry at such an early stage in a long long time. if u sit down and watch an entire warriors game, youll see its art. and this is coming from a suns fan whos been spoiled with nash's amazing passing. stephen curry is an AMAZING passer.

and no way in hell iverson was a better passer his rookie year or any other year

69centers
05-19-2010, 03:26 PM
What about pistol pete...

Without a doubt, number one. He was the best ball handler of all time.

FarOutIos
05-19-2010, 03:30 PM
It always gets me how much people fight over these top 3, 5 or 10 lists then the debate goes to all-time players. Like who is better all time- The Dream, Kareem, Shaq or Chamberlain. Just based on numbers it is Chamberlain. By far.

BUT- we must always consider that each player had a different environment. Different talent on his team. Different competition. Should Pistol Pete be faulted for being too good of a passer for his teammates... Maybe. Maybe not. If the ball hits his teammate on the head, whose fault is it really?

All I can say is that there are elite categories. The debate should be whether or not a player is in that elite category.

Stockton, Magic, Pistol, Cousy, Nash, Kidd... it seems as if they belong in the category.

Who else?

RadiantShot
05-19-2010, 03:32 PM
Magic and Stockton just HAVE to be on this list, it's not even arguable, whatsoever. There's many cases for third though, among them being Jason Kidd, and Steve Nash, and possibly to come, Chris Paul.

frizbo72
05-19-2010, 03:33 PM
The fact that I have only read the first page and seen mark jackson be mentioned once is ridiculous. He was one of the greatest passers I cna remember so my top 3 would be in no particular order:

magic
action
stockton

Correct me if I am wrong but wasn't Jackson the backup to Stockton at the end of their careers? I thought so.

ManRam
05-19-2010, 03:38 PM
ok yes. statistically they were better then curry, but if u watched him ud know what i was talking about. i havene seen court vision like curry at such an early stage in a long long time. if u sit down and watch an entire warriors game, youll see its art. and this is coming from a suns fan whos been spoiled with nash's amazing passing. stephen curry is an AMAZING passer.

and no way in hell iverson was a better passer his rookie year or any other year

I have my doubts. Besides size, passing was his lowest marks by most scouting sites coming out of college. He even started out as a SG in college, until his final year. NBADraft.net said he is more of a 2 guard than a PG, and was just a "decent passer and ball handler". NBA Draft Express said "Not a true point guard", "Stuck between 1 and 2", and so on. I know that means little, but it's better than me spewing my opinions.

His assist/TO of 1.93 isn't too spectacular either. It puts him 51st in the league.

He's a good passer, for sure. Better than I expected, but I think he benefits a lot from the system he's in (highest scoring offense in the league).

I think we can just agree to disagree and see how it works out.

netsgiantsyanks
05-19-2010, 03:39 PM
who do u think are the top 3 passers of all time??

1.Magic Johnson
2.Steve Nash
3.Jason Kidd

your thoughts?

my exact thoughts

JasonJohnHorn
05-19-2010, 03:46 PM
Yeah, I got Mark Jackson at third, above Magic, so I got respect for him, but NO WAY, is there any arguement to put Jackson above Stockton!

as for all the Pistol Pete nods. They are nice, but I cant agree. He was amazing witht eh ball and had crazy street skill, but he turned it over. Turnovers is, in part, how you measure passing. Stockton got crazy high assists and low turnovers. So not only did he put the most up in a season, most up in his career, but he posted low turnovers. Was he as flashy and Pete? No. But he was a better passer, just not as flashy as one. He didnt do all the high-light reel tricks, because they were high-turnover passes and he opted for the meat-and-potatoes basketball.

Cousy was flashy (perhaps as flashy are the Pistol) and had crazy skills, but they didnt keep track of turnovers then, so I feel like that gives me a pass to put him in my top three ;-)

But yeah, everybody can go on about the Pistol's skills, but bottom line is passing and ball handling is not the same. Pete was great, one of the best, but not a top three passer.

C_Mund
05-19-2010, 03:50 PM
It always gets me how much people fight over these top 3, 5 or 10 lists then the debate goes to all-time players. Like who is better all time- The Dream, Kareem, Shaq or Chamberlain. Just based on numbers it is Chamberlain. By far.

BUT- we must always consider that each player had a different environment. Different talent on his team. Different competition. Should Pistol Pete be faulted for being too good of a passer for his teammates... Maybe. Maybe not. If the ball hits his teammate on the head, whose fault is it really?

All I can say is that there are elite categories. The debate should be whether or not a player is in that elite category.

Stockton, Magic, Pistol, Cousy, Nash, Kidd... it seems as if they belong in the category.

Who else?

Great post.
Isiah Thomas is up there for sure.

Kevj77
05-19-2010, 04:59 PM
Well... Jackson is higher on the all-time assist list than Magic, though Magic would have been higher had he it not been for his early retirement. Still, there is something to be said about how Jackson maintained a high level of play late into his career.

I think there is a case to put Jackson higher than Magic, though there is obviously a case for Magic to be over Jackson.That's meaningless he has less then 200 more career assits in a much longer career. He only averaged over 10 assists per game 3 times in his career. Magic did it 9 years in a row. It's not even close. Only reason he has a few more assists is Magic got HIV and had to retire. No case at all.

Lakersfan2483
05-19-2010, 07:57 PM
Greatest passers ever: Magic Johnson, John Stockton, Pete Maravich, Jason Kidd, Steve Nash and Bob Cousy. Honorable mentions: Isaiah Thomas, Chris Paul, Gary Payton