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View Full Version : Is Dwight Howard a "true" Superstar?



Run&Gun
05-16-2010, 11:47 PM
Before I get killed for making this comment hear me out. First off is Dwight Howard the best center in the NBA, yes. Is he the most dominant defensive player as of now, of course. Franchise player with unlimited potential of course. But let's really look at what a superstar means. Usually it means that your team relies on your night and night out, Offensively and Defensively and is the entire team's identity. Now Dwight Howard most definately leads Orlando's defense and takes up a lot of space in the middle. But is he that consistent? Offensively he's extremely sporadic, only has about two to three real solid moves, still can't shoot free throws and turns over the ball at an alarming rate. Granted he is getting better at passing the ball, has huge games that no one else in the league can get and dunks like no other center. But he trades good games with bad, has disappeared for large stretches of the playoffs and is always getting into foul trouble. In addition doesn't a lot of the amount of rebounds he gets is because he's surrounded by jump shooters and no one else on the team truly rebounds the ball? Is he really a "true" superstar like Lebron, Kobe, Wade, Durant? Personally I feel until he develops more consistency and a more diverse offensive game he's a glorified and more exciting Marcus Camby or Ben Wallace. What does everyone else think, most likely I will face pretty heavy opposition but I'm just trying to make a point.

tr4shb0t
05-16-2010, 11:50 PM
ban

Evolution23
05-16-2010, 11:51 PM
Yes he is. still needs to develop is post game more though

Avenged
05-16-2010, 11:54 PM
Marcus Camby & Ben Wallace? No..

Dwight is a top 5 player in the league along with being the best defender. That's a superstar to me.

superkegger
05-17-2010, 12:09 AM
A superstar should be able to carry a team for periods. And then, even when he's not at his best, he should still be pretty ****ing good. Dwights not there yet.

That's the difference between him and what Shaq was. Shaq couldn't hit free throws, but you were never going to single cover him and not pay for it dearly. If anyone had ever been dumb enough to single cover shaq in his hey-day with the Lakers with ****ing Glen Davis and an old *** Rasheed Wallace for half the game, Shaq would have gone for 40+.

Not to say he has to be what Shaq was. But when you're the franchise guy and the "superstar", and the other team says, "We don't think you can beat us, we're going to play you straight up," and you response to that is 13 points, 12 boards 3-10 shooting, 7-12 from the line and 7 turnovers. Well, I dunno, I have a hard time calling that man a superstar.

Spurred1
05-17-2010, 12:31 AM
One of the analysts during the game commented that for all he brings defensively, he can still be a liability offensively. Guess that goes with Keg's post.
It depends on what your definition of a true superstar is. If your definition means a guy who can perform up to and beyond expectations on both ends of the floor, then no-Dwight wouldn't count as a superstar right now. But he's young, so there should still be time for him to develop more of an offensive game.
I think of him as a star, though.

Tragedy
05-17-2010, 12:45 AM
Not only do I think he's a superstar, but I think he should be the face of the NBA because he's not nearly the crybaby that LeBron is. He seems like a solid guy. I think that Kobe is the NBA's most marketable and best player, but ever since the rape allegations they stir clear of him.

I love Dwight.

hugepatsfan
05-17-2010, 12:59 AM
Hard to say. He is a dominant force, but still struggles to score at times. He is really a tricky guy to categorize.

gbpackers12
05-17-2010, 01:03 AM
Not only do I think he's a superstar, but I think he should be the face of the NBA because he's not nearly the crybaby that LeBron is. He seems like a solid guy. I think that Kobe is the NBA's most marketable and best player, but ever since the rape allegations they stir clear of him.

I love Dwight.

x2. Dwight is definitely my favorite player in the league. His personations and jokes are so funny to me because he's like a big over-grown kid. He's definitely a true superstar. Some of his blocks today were downright nasty.

ldc62
05-17-2010, 01:11 AM
He is what he is on offense. You can't expect too much of a leap from here on out. Hes still a star tho.

mshan5
05-17-2010, 01:29 AM
Dwight isn't a basketball player. He's a phenomenal athlete who happens to play basketball. Yes, his timing is superior to that of anyone else when it comes to blocking shots, but he would be much more effective if he blocked shots into the direction of Jameer Nelson in order to start fast breaks instead of slapping them into the tenth row. His offensive mind isn't nearly as developed as someone like LeBron's, and he should practice his four foot hook shots more than he practices his underhand half court shots.

He deserves credit, but that team isn't winning right now strictly because of him.

Spurred1
05-17-2010, 01:37 AM
He is what he is on offense. You can't expect too much of a leap from here on out. Hes still a star tho.

You don't think he could really improve on offense? He's so young, there should be room for serious improvement.

tredigs
05-17-2010, 01:39 AM
Dwight isn't a basketball player. He's a phenomenal athlete who happens to play basketball. Yes, his timing is superior to that of anyone else when it comes to blocking shots, but he would be much more effective if he blocked shots into the direction of Jameer Nelson in order to start fast breaks instead of slapping them into the tenth row. His offensive mind isn't nearly as developed as someone like LeBron's, and he should practice his four foot hook shots more than he practices his underhand half court shots.

He deserves credit, but that team isn't winning right now strictly because of him.

I agree that his offense obviously lacks depth, and he could block smarter, but saying that the "team isn't winning right now strictly because of him" when you're talking about a team who has lost once in the last month and a half, by 4 points, doesn't make much sense.

I absolutely think he's a superstar, although I'd say he's the least talented of any superstar in this generation.

asomen
05-17-2010, 01:41 AM
Tough call. I think you can only call 5 guys in the NBA "Superstars". I'm not putting Howard above Lebron, Kobe, Wade, and Durant.

If I had the 5th pick in the NBA draft and every NBA player was in the pool...I'm having a tough time deciding between Dwight Howard and Carmelo Anthony. It's a tough statement to make that you can build a team around Dwight Howard with lesser talent than Jameer Nelson, Rashard Lewis, and Vince Carter.

I think if you have to question if they are a superstar or not...you answered your own question.

ldc62
05-17-2010, 02:09 AM
You don't think he could really improve on offense? He's so young, there should be room for serious improvement.

that was a Bill Parcel's quote. But its been 6 years and his offense isn't even as good as Yao's in Yao's first year... He could improve, but it will be more refining than doing new moves.

ldc62
05-17-2010, 02:11 AM
Tough call. I think you can only call 5 guys in the NBA "Superstars". I'm not putting Howard above Lebron, Kobe, Wade, and Durant.

If I had the 5th pick in the NBA draft and every NBA player was in the pool...I'm having a tough time deciding between Dwight Howard and Carmelo Anthony. It's a tough statement to make that you can build a team around Dwight Howard with lesser talent than Jameer Nelson, Rashard Lewis, and Vince Carter.

I think if you have to question if they are a superstar or not...you answered your own question.

Then players like Rose and Wall come in... and I have a hard time picking Dwight over them too. If Yao was less injury prone then he'd be ahead of Dwight.

hugepatsfan
05-17-2010, 02:23 AM
Then players like Rose and Wall come in... and I have a hard time picking Dwight over them too. If Yao was less injury prone then he'd be ahead of Dwight.

:facepalm:

asomen
05-17-2010, 02:23 AM
Then players like Rose and Wall come in... and I have a hard time picking Dwight over them too. If Yao was less injury prone then he'd be ahead of Dwight.

My point exactly. In my personal opinion, there is no question or debate who a superstar is. Kobe, Lebron, Durant, Wade. No one is going to argue if they are the face of the NBA and can carry a team.

But if you have to sit there and ponder "Can this guy carry a team by himself?"...then they begin to enter a different category of players who are top-talent but not a true "superstar". (Howard, Dirk, Rose, Carmelo, Amare, etc....you get the point). That's not to say Howard doesn't lead this category of players. Just sayin I don't think you can put Howard in the category called Superstar.

michelangelo
05-17-2010, 02:27 AM
It's very simple: Dwight is not a talented offensive player. He can and will improve, but he'll never become outstanding.

Right now, I'd just like to see him stop blowing layups. Fundamentals matter.


You don't think he could really improve on offense? He's so young, there should be room for serious improvement.

sixer04fan
05-17-2010, 02:54 AM
Marcus Camby & Ben Wallace? No..

Dwight is a top 5 player in the league along with being the best defender. That's a superstar to me.

I hate Dwight.. If you get paid that much, learn how to make a free throw... But still I have to agree with this. He is a true superstar, and he could be the best player on a championship caliber team... Whether or not that's the Magic this year, we will see.

That's the true definition of a superstar to me -- being the best player on a championship team.

However, with the amount of complaining he does to the refs when he already gets so many calls (3 seconds almost every position, or a foul, or a travel..)... It's pretty hard to respect him as a superstar a la the same level as Wade, Lebron, Kobe... It's hard to like the guy not being an Orlando fan.

Run&Gun
05-17-2010, 03:05 AM
I think it's hard not to put Dwight as a Top 5 mostly because the picks for centers are very slim, and there aren't anybody as close to Dwight Howard in terms of defensive ability and pure athleticism. Put as of I know he doesn't have a real go to move, finished poorly when fouled unless he's dunking it which is ridiculous considering his immense size and strength, fouls too much, makes a lot of bad decisions, and just isn't yet that type of player that can really be relied on heavily night and night out. I don't see why people think it's terrible saying he's a super Marcus Camby or Ben Wallace, probably should have said that in their prime because when they were both in their prime they were complete game changers Big Ben almost 12 rebounds 2 steals 3 blocks, Camby 13 rebounds, 3.6 blocks and 3 assist I think these guys really pushed their team over the top to win games and knew that they did best and stuck to it making them extremely efficient basketball players, so I think saying that Dwight is a better version is giving him still a lot of credit.

ldc62
05-17-2010, 03:10 AM
:facepalm:

You seriously undervalue the importance of PGs like Rose and Wall... I rather have say Rose and an Al Jefferson than Dwight and Jameer.

_KB24_
05-17-2010, 03:10 AM
No the guy is a complete douchebag who only had one of the best defensive season in NBA history and will go down as a Top 5, if not greatest defender ever. He ****ing sucks. Who the hell would even want to start a team with him. His offensive game is only improving, I mean why would you? :mad:


The kid is a stud, leave him alone. He's probably one of the realest and coolest guys in the NBA. I agree with the other poster, he should be the face of the NBA. :superman:

ldc62
05-17-2010, 03:11 AM
It's very simple: Dwight is not a talented offensive player. He can and will improve, but he'll never become outstanding.

Right now, I'd just like to see him stop blowing layups. Fundamentals matter.

Yes like I have said, his game will be more refined, but we will never see a post move clinic.

ldc62
05-17-2010, 03:12 AM
My point exactly. In my personal opinion, there is no question or debate who a superstar is. Kobe, Lebron, Durant, Wade. No one is going to argue if they are the face of the NBA and can carry a team.

But if you have to sit there and ponder "Can this guy carry a team by himself?"...then they begin to enter a different category of players who are top-talent but not a true "superstar". (Howard, Dirk, Rose, Carmelo, Amare, etc....you get the point). That's not to say Howard doesn't lead this category of players. Just sayin I don't think you can put Howard in the category called Superstar.

Agree, great points, but don't mention Amare. Amare would never be in this position without my boy Nash.

ldc62
05-17-2010, 03:16 AM
No the guy is a complete douchebag who only had one of the best defensive season in NBA history and will go down as a Top 5, if not greatest defender ever. He ****ing sucks. Who the hell would even want to start a team with him. His offensive game is only improving, I mean why would you? :mad:


The kid is a stud, leave him alone. He's probably one of the realest and coolest guys in the NBA. I agree with the other poster, he should be the face of the NBA. :superman:

His offensive game is not improving enough...

theSPECIALKID
05-17-2010, 03:46 AM
Then players like Rose and Wall come in... and I have a hard time picking Dwight over them too. If Yao was less injury prone then he'd be ahead of Dwight.

I'm a huge Rose fan, but smh at this post.

ldc62
05-17-2010, 03:49 AM
I'm a huge Rose fan, but smh at this post.

You rather have Howard than Rose? Do you not understand how valuable PGs like Rose are? Dwight is a great defender, but I would take good team Defense over having 1 guy just stuff the paint.

JayW_1023
05-17-2010, 03:54 AM
He also has the tendency to leave his defensive position to block shots. Sometimes he can still recover with spectacular results, but alot of times Boston successfully found a weakside cutter for open shots under the basket. For a DPOY you just can't allow that.

Jenceman
05-17-2010, 03:59 AM
You rather have Howard than Rose? Do you not understand how valuable PGs like Rose are? Dwight is a great defender, but I would take good team Defense over having 1 guy just stuff the paint.

It'd be much easier to build a team around Dwight than Rose.

Master Mind
05-17-2010, 04:07 AM
Star, yes...Superstar, ehhh...

ManRam
05-17-2010, 09:16 AM
I've been somewhat notoriously hard on Dwight in the past, just because I don't like how he gets a pass most of the time for his obvious shortcomings. This year he did make some amazing improvements. He has a nice little arsenal of post moves and even banked in a few jumpers from time to time. But it is clear that he still is incredibly raw, and when comparing him to the list of all-time great big men, his moves look pretty bad. You can get away with it these days though.

He is still a super star because he is the best at his position (no matter how weak his position is), he is as dominating on defense as any one player in on offense, and he does have that aura. But you are kidding yourself if you think his offense is where it needs to be.

Yesterday was a scary reminder. I hope it was a fluke, and I think it was to an extent, but who knows. I'm worried about his mind frame right now. He's a bit delicate emotionally, and gets easily frustrated which really affects his game, and yesterday that showed. Simply put, that can not carry over.

MacFitz92
05-17-2010, 09:24 AM
The question really is:

Is this a joke?

JasonJohnHorn
05-17-2010, 09:32 AM
I understand your point completely and I wouldnt disagree. Depending on how you define "superstar", Dwight could or could not be one.

Now please don't take this the wrong way, because I think on offence Dwight has a better game, and he is far more athletic, but Howard's role in Orlando, is much like what Ben Wallace's role was in Detroit: interior defence and rebounds. Howard, like Ben was, is the defensive anchor of his team, and also the guy the depend on the dominat the boards. Neither is or was the first option on offence, and while Howard athleticism gets him most points (many more points) and his athleticism and ability to move well without the ball and get open, also makes him a bigger impact on offence than Wallace could ever hope to be, the bottom line is that the Magic are a 3-point shooting team, Nelson brings the ball up, Cater and Lewis are the big scorers and Howard keeps the interior defenders honest and make them pay if the run out to guard the three or double team the guy driving into the lane.

Case and point; Lewis gets six point (game one agaisnt Boston): The Magic lose.
Howard is limited to minutes due to foul trouble: The Bobcats get swept!

Dwight Howard is fourth on the team in minutes played for the playoffs, and since they are 8-1 in the playoffs, that's gotta tell you something.

This isnt a knock on Howard, its just looking at his role objectively. and for those of you who might scoff at the idea of comparing Big Ben and Howard, lets just remember who has posted the higher rebounding and block shots per games averages: Wallace! Wallace has three times in his career posted high blocks per game averages than Howards best, and one posted a higher rebounding average than Howards best (and twice averaged 13+ and twice avages 12+) a while Howard is young and has his best years a head of him, his role for the Magic now is not entirely unlike what Ben's role was for the Pistons.

That said, his offensive game is solid enough in my book, even though he has the range of a yard stick and doesnt have very good foot work, his athleticism and bility to move without the ball gets him a lot of easy buckets and he is one of the few guys I can think of who can score over 20 points in a game without having a single play run for him.

Nelson, Lewis and Carter have to score big for this team to do well, and Howard has to be a beast on the boards and on the inside defensively for this team to do well. It is a team after all and each person has a job to do, so if everybody isnt playing at their best, then the team will only be as strong as its weakest player.

Superstar? Yes!

ldc62
05-17-2010, 12:01 PM
If he continues to play like this... then people have got to move him down the list in terms of the greats that are currently playing. No way can a team play you one on one and you still can't get 20...

Raph12
05-17-2010, 12:29 PM
I expected this after yesterday's game, an impulse thread on how poorly Dwight played on offense, just like the 40 billion Lebron-bashing threads that we saw after Game 5. It was one game, he missed a couple of layups and some easy hooks he usually knocks down, he let the physical play get to him and missed a lot of gimmes. I expect him to bounce back strong in the next game, maybe have a 20-20-5 game.

I'll get back at this thread if he struggles all series long, until then, just wait and see.

effen5
05-17-2010, 12:36 PM
I LOVEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE D12, but I don't think hes a superstar yet. Once he keeps working on his low post game, I think he might have a chance to be just as dominant as Shaq was in his prime. He does have a great mentor to learn from though, Patrick Ewing.

Hawkeye15
05-17-2010, 12:38 PM
yes, he is a superstar. Does he have a weakness? Sure. So does every superstar.

Raoul Duke
05-17-2010, 12:41 PM
I think he needs a new coach. I really like SVG, and I don't think he's gotten enough credit for what he does to make his teams better, but he oughtta be ashamed of himself for not getting the ball to Howard more often. If he can't figure out how to get Howard more clean looks down low, then there are at least ten other coaches who could do the job.

td0tsfinest
05-17-2010, 12:55 PM
a lot of players get coined as a superstar for the amazing offensive skills. Guys like T-Mac, Vince Carter or Dirk Nowtizki. But those guys are really weak on the other side of the court.

So why can't we call a guy a superstar if he's the most dominating and intimidating force on the defensive end in the nba. Dwight may not have the greatest offensive talent but he's becoming better and he's show strides of great improvement.

I say Dwight is a Superstar.

Cromedome
05-17-2010, 12:57 PM
Superman..the REAL superman would have never been stripped so many times deep in the post. When the REAL superman got the ball in the post ..it was ...LOOK OUT!!!!!

E.O.21
05-17-2010, 01:29 PM
yes, he is a superstar. Does he have a weakness? Sure. So does every superstar.

If your weakness is not scoring the ball consistently, than your not a superstar

Raph12
05-17-2010, 01:56 PM
If your weakness is not scoring the ball consistently, than your not a superstar

You're right, because the guy who won 11 rings in 13 seasons was the same guy who scored 100pts in a game and avged over 50ppg in a season, right? :rolleyes:

Dwight's impact on the defensive end alone makes him a superstar, let alone what he does on the offensive end. If Boston does beat Orlando, they'll stomp Gasol/Bynum in the Finals like they did in '08, Boston is the most physical team in the league and with Perkins, Sheed and KG in their frontcourt, people will go back to calling Gasol, Gasoft. Dwight will bounce back, because he knows how to be physical with them as well and when he just plays and doesn't get frustrated, he'll be right there, but Gasol can't play that way, he's a finesse guy and will get stomped, doesn't mean he's not a great scorer.

asomen
05-17-2010, 02:06 PM
a lot of players get coined as a superstar for the amazing offensive skills. Guys like T-Mac, Vince Carter or Dirk Nowtizki. But those guys are really weak on the other side of the court.

So why can't we call a guy a superstar if he's the most dominating and intimidating force on the defensive end in the nba. Dwight may not have the greatest offensive talent but he's becoming better and he's show strides of great improvement.

I say Dwight is a Superstar.

I guess my question to the people who think Dwight is a superstar is this. If Dirk, Melo, Rose, Howard, etc. are all superstars...then what do you call the the next level of athletes?

Because you can't include Kobe, Lebron, Wade, and Durant in the same category as guys like Dirk and Dwight Howard. They deserve a title of their own. These 4 guys have a 1 up on the next level of guys.

So are they considered "Super Superstars?"

Raph12
05-17-2010, 02:19 PM
I guess my question to the people who think Dwight is a superstar is this. If Dirk, Melo, Rose, Howard, etc. are all superstars...then what do you call the the next level of athletes?

Because you can't include Kobe, Lebron, Wade, and Durant in the same category as guys like Dirk and Dwight Howard. They deserve a title of their own. These 4 guys have a 1 up on the next level of guys.

So are they considered "Super Superstars?"

You mean the Durant that choked in the first round? Or the Lebron that gave up after Game 4? Or the Kobe that couldn't shoot over 50% in one game against the Thunder? Or the Wade who hasn't got out of the first round since the championship run?

They're all human, they have weaknesses and they have strengths, Durant isn't prepared to be a superstar yet, he's on Melo's level. Kobe, Lebron, Wade and Dwight are the only superstars in this league, what those guys do on offense, Dwight does on defense. The difference is, Dwight's defense will always be there, it's more consistent than any of those guy's offense, any of them.

Hawkeye15
05-17-2010, 02:27 PM
If your weakness is not scoring the ball consistently, than your not a superstar

but he totally dominates various areas, and is one of the most efficient big men in the league, and controls the defenisve side of the ball. Every superstar has weaknesses. Bill Russell didn't score at all. Was he not a superstar??

mshan5
05-17-2010, 02:28 PM
You mean the Durant that choked in the first round? Or the Lebron that gave up after Game 4? Or the Kobe that couldn't shoot over 50% in one game against the Thunder? Or the Wade who hasn't got out of the first round since the championship run?

They're all human, they have weaknesses and they have strengths, Durant isn't prepared to be a superstar yet, he's on Melo's level. Kobe, Lebron, Wade and Dwight are the only superstars in this league, what those guys do on offense, Dwight does on defense. The difference is, Dwight's defense will always be there, it's more consistent than any of those guy's offense, any of them.


...But to compare Dwight Howard against any of them is still asinine. Saying that Durant's first playoff appearance, Kobe's one game against the Thunder, or Dwyane Wade's lack of success with a subpar supporting cast is equivalent to Dwight Howard's nonexistent offensive game makes no sense.

To some degree, yes, every NBA player has a weakness, but Dwight Howard's consistent mediocrity on offense is significantly greater than any weakness shown by any of the players you mentioned.

Discr3t
05-17-2010, 02:34 PM
In the sense of popularity? yes
In the sense of talent? No

The dude needs to develop a consistent offensive game.

avrpatsfan
05-17-2010, 02:36 PM
Not only do I think he's a superstar, but I think he should be the face of the NBA because he's not nearly the crybaby that LeBron is. He seems like a solid guy. I think that Kobe is the NBA's most marketable and best player, but ever since the rape allegations they stir clear of him.

I love Dwight.

I like him but he is kind of a crybaby. Have you seen him play? After every play he argues the call with an exasperated expression on his face. The ABC announcers says that he loses credibility when he argues about obvious good calls.

m26555
05-17-2010, 02:39 PM
I guess my question to the people who think Dwight is a superstar is this. If Dirk, Melo, Rose, Howard, etc. are all superstars...then what do you call the the next level of athletes?

Because you can't include Kobe, Lebron, Wade, and Durant in the same category as guys like Dirk and Dwight Howard. They deserve a title of their own. These 4 guys have a 1 up on the next level of guys.

So are they considered "Super Superstars?"
Are we seriously calling Derrick Rose a superstar? I mean, seriously?

n83417
05-17-2010, 02:53 PM
If Howard develops some actual low post moves, then yes. Until then, No. He relies entirely too much on his pure ability and athleticism, which is astronomical. He has no jump hook, no turn around jumper, no jump shot at all... He is only consistent when dunking, which I understand he dunks more than anyone in the NBA.

Until he can play with his back to the basket and score when hes more than 8 feet from the hoop, he is a tad below a superstar.

n83417
05-17-2010, 02:56 PM
Are we seriously calling Derrick Rose a superstar? I mean, seriously?

Seriously, if scoring 20 ppg and bringing not much else to the table makes you a superstar then there are a TON of superstars in the league.

jackdawson
05-17-2010, 02:59 PM
Superstar:
1. Key factor on both offense and defense.
2. Staying out of foul trouble (have to be on the court at the end of the games).
3. Able to take over games when needed.

Does Dwight Howard meet all three of the above? Or just one of the above? NO,NO, and NO. He is an awesome defensive player but you can't call a player a superstar who is such a non-factor on offense, pretty often in foul trouble, and can't take over games.
IMO he is highly overrated (because of the lack of quality big-men in the league now). He is a taller and slightly better offensive version of Ben Wallace imo.

clehmun
05-17-2010, 03:01 PM
i also question howard's ability to be a leader on his team.
mark jackson last night talked about boston having 3-4 guys on their team who are no non-sense, tough, rip your hearts out, nasty players. guys with a big killer instinct. and he said he wasn't sure if there is anyone like that on the magic team.

jackdawson
05-17-2010, 03:12 PM
i also question howard's ability to be a leader on his team.
mark jackson last night talked about boston having 3-4 guys on their team who are no non-sense, tough, rip your hearts out, nasty players. guys with a big killer instinct. and he said he wasn't sure if there is anyone like that on the magic team.

I can almost guarantee if it's another Lakers-Magic final this year, Kobe is getting his 5th ring easily. Lakers (assuming they advance) will absolutely not want to face the Celtics. Ask lakers' fans, they will agree with me.

RadiantShot
05-17-2010, 03:17 PM
Raph is pretty much owning everyone, so I'll just let him finish it off. ;)

clehmun
05-17-2010, 03:20 PM
I can almost guarantee if it's another Lakers-Magic final this year, Kobe is getting his 5th ring easily. Lakers (assuming they advance) will absolutely not want to face the Celtics. Ask lakers' fans, they will agree with me.

i've always been a laker fan (the nuggets avatar is because of the mock season simulations).

you can call me biased. i think the lakers have a 65% chance of beating the magic, and a 55% chance of beating the celtics. and for the record, a 50% chance of beating a healthy cavs team.

a part of me wants magic to win, so the lakers get an "easier" matchup. a bigger part of me wants the celtics to win, so the lakers can get their revenge from 2 years ago.

runforrestrunx9
05-17-2010, 03:37 PM
Then players like Rose and Wall come in... and I have a hard time picking Dwight over them too. If Yao was less injury prone then he'd be ahead of Dwight.

o boy

SteveNash
05-17-2010, 04:32 PM
Well I won't say anything negative.

All, I'll say is that a superstar should be a well known sports figure to people that don't follow his sport. People know who Tiger Woods is even if they never watched a golf tournament. Can you say the same about Howard?

RadiantShot
05-17-2010, 05:28 PM
Yeah.

You win, young fella, you win!

http://file.shanghaidaily.com/News/Image//2008/2008-02/2008-02-18/20080218_348986_01.jpg

JordansBulls
05-17-2010, 05:35 PM
Before I get killed for making this comment hear me out. First off is Dwight Howard the best center in the NBA, yes. Is he the most dominant defensive player as of now, of course. Franchise player with unlimited potential of course. But let's really look at what a superstar means. Usually it means that your team relies on your night and night out, Offensively and Defensively and is the entire team's identity. Now Dwight Howard most definately leads Orlando's defense and takes up a lot of space in the middle. But is he that consistent? Offensively he's extremely sporadic, only has about two to three real solid moves, still can't shoot free throws and turns over the ball at an alarming rate. Granted he is getting better at passing the ball, has huge games that no one else in the league can get and dunks like no other center. But he trades good games with bad, has disappeared for large stretches of the playoffs and is always getting into foul trouble. In addition doesn't a lot of the amount of rebounds he gets is because he's surrounded by jump shooters and no one else on the team truly rebounds the ball? Is he really a "true" superstar like Lebron, Kobe, Wade, Durant? Personally I feel until he develops more consistency and a more diverse offensive game he's a glorified and more exciting Marcus Camby or Ben Wallace. What does everyone else think, most likely I will face pretty heavy opposition but I'm just trying to make a point.

If a guy like Tmac who never got out of round 1 and Yao who only made the 2nd round once are considered superstars then why isn't a guy who led his team to the finals as the man beating two 60+ win teams be a superstar?

jackdawson
05-17-2010, 05:52 PM
If a guy like Tmac who never got out of round 1 and Yao who only made the 2nd round once are considered superstars then why isn't a guy who led his team to the finals as the man beating two 60+ win teams be a superstar?

T-mac and Yao aren't true superstars. T-mac might be considered a top 3/4 player for 2/3 prime years, but that wasn't enough to make him a cinsistent and true superstar. He is an ultimate loser.

To reach the finals you don't need a superstar player. If you have a balanced team you can even end up winning it all. Recent example: 2004 Pistons.

RadiantShot
05-17-2010, 05:58 PM
Most of the time, teams with superstars win it all; i.e. Kobe Bryant, Michael Jordan, Shaq, Bird, Magic, etc.

Run&Gun
05-17-2010, 06:17 PM
You mean the Durant that choked in the first round? Or the Lebron that gave up after Game 4? Or the Kobe that couldn't shoot over 50% in one game against the Thunder? Or the Wade who hasn't got out of the first round since the championship run?

They're all human, they have weaknesses and they have strengths, Durant isn't prepared to be a superstar yet, he's on Melo's level. Kobe, Lebron, Wade and Dwight are the only superstars in this league, what those guys do on offense, Dwight does on defense. The difference is, Dwight's defense will always be there, it's more consistent than any of those guy's offense, any of them.

It's true that every player has their weakness and I would have said last year Durant wasn't a superstar but he's really been amazing picking up his game on Defense, and not saying that he didn't play bad in the playoffs but the matchup and his surrounding cast around him is terrible. Westbrook is a rising star but his inability to shoot past 15 feet consistently really hurt them. Jeff Green yeah he's stuck at role player who else do they have? Yeah can always rely on good old Kristic, Thabo and Collison for Offense right? Point is one of the biggest problem is Durant's cast isn't there yet they have no bench and big thing was that they did win a couple of games against them who had a roster 2-3x better than their roster.

Looking at all the games Durant played when he and westbrook don't play good they lose. Wade's team is worse than Durant's, Kobe's hurt(and I hate defending Kobe) Lebron can't say much about him he did put some great games against the Celtics put they couldn't match Boston's chemistry but he did play good most of the series. When Dwight Howard has been in foul trouble throughout the bobcat series they swept them, when a team doesn't have their superstar they usually can't win or they should at least lose a couple of games.

I mean really who did Howard play against the Bobcats? Underperforming Tyson Chandler and Nazr Mahommad, should be putting up at least 20 points against them. I don't think any of us aren't saying Howard is amazing, but looking at them Magic they have an extremely deep roster, probably the best in the league and the fact that the Magic are still able to win or put up some great games despite Howard getting stuck on the bench due to foul problems or his mass amount of turnovers should really tell you that's not quite there as a superstar if his team can still win when he's a nonfactor.

RadiantShot
05-17-2010, 06:18 PM
Can you space out your post so I can actually read it? Just wondering. :)

yungballah15
05-17-2010, 06:21 PM
Hes not really showing strong signs, of his offense game improving. And honestly im a Orlando fan, but honestly there at best when they avoid throwing him the ball in the post, and just use him for screens, rebounds blocking and getting him easy looks.When there forcing the ball into him play after play they start to lose, because he cant handle that with his stillIn the progress offensive game.

Kakaroach
05-17-2010, 06:22 PM
He is a defensive superstar. Its been a while since a guy flat out dominated the paint like he does.

On offense of course he has a lot of work to do. What Dwight really needs to do is just become less turnover-prone. Less dribbles and less offensive fouls. If he just does that, he would be so much better its ridiculous.

Raph12
05-17-2010, 06:22 PM
You guys need to watch the Celts play, you are underrating what they do and just looking only at Dwight. Yes Dwight missed easy hookshots and layups all game, but that has to do with two things, one he didn't play in a week and two, Boston has the most suffocating defense in the league, why? Because they play the most physical basketball and can replace just about everyone in the starting line who's in foul trouble with a good backup. Their frontcourt is as deep as it gets, they'll harass and frustrate any big, whether it be Dwight, Shaq, Gasol, Duncan, etc... They have many options to throw at you with Perk, Sheed, Davis, KG and even Sheldon Williams, they play extremely physical to frustrate you and then if they pick up fouls, they just replace them with another big.

KG couldn't score on Dwight yesterday, he got easy layups on Shard to get his 4-14, they didn't need his, Perkins, or Davis' production on offense, Pierce went off and Allen did his thing. If they can continue to control KG and Rondo, while limitting their mistakes on offense (17 turnovers in the first 3 quarters), this series will be a lot closer than it was last night. I expect Dwight to bounce back strong, he won't miss that many gimmes again tomorrow, I guarantee he shoots over 50% in the game.

tredigs
05-17-2010, 06:30 PM
... the guy had one of the best defensive season in NBA history and will go down as a Top 5, if not greatest defender ever...

HUH? Just going back from 2001 to 2005 I can find you arguably 4 better defensive performances than Dwight's season. And that's only from ONE player, Big Ben. And we only have to go back slightly further to the 90's to find guys like Robinson, Mutombo and Olajuwon who had these types of seasons in their sleep. He's fantastic on D (when he's in), but let's be realistic here.


Most of the time, teams with superstars win it all; i.e. Kobe Bryant, Michael Jordan, Shaq, Bird, Magic, etc.

Those are more than superstars, those are legends. Albeit some a bit greater than others.

This question doesn't have a true answer, as the title of "superstar" is so ambiguous and up to personal opinion. The only three absolute unquestionable superstars are Lebron James, Kobe and D. Wade. They're among the best in the league on both sides of the court, are the best players on the Dream Team's, and all have the ability to completely take over a game and carry their team to victory. Add that to their massive marketing appeal, and that's the mold of a superstar in my opinion.

Dwight Howard, Durant and Cp3 are just below this tier to me, but are still superstars. I disagree completely with Raph and the others that put Dwight ahead of these two and in the tier with Lebron, Kobe and Wade. Those three are all much more consistent and/or much more proven than Dwight. Though he's right with them on the marketability aspect.

He needs to learn to control his emotions (which is a big reason why he stays in foul trouble - he's often weak mentally -which he admits- and commits dumb fouls that land him on the bench for extended periods), and obviously become more dominant offensively. Can we agree that the best center in the game should not be a secondary-factor in as many games as he has been during this post-season if he was a true top-tier superstar?

Again, all players -even superstars- have their weaknesses, but in my opinion few of them are as obvious and debilitating to their team as Dwight's lack of a solid post game and perennial foul trouble.

meloman1592
05-17-2010, 06:38 PM
he is not a superstar...just a physical phenom with God given athleticism and a good defender.

ryder78c
05-17-2010, 06:40 PM
Allstar not superstar

if Howard doesnt score he's not a superstar .....superstar can defend and shoot howard cant carry his team he has gotta have another star to play there i say if amare was his power they would win but with just a shooting core and him inside they will never win

Dwight Howards Name With the Real Superman Is disrespectful Shaq can carry his team dwight needs more then one star on his team he needs 2-3 like KG

n83417
05-17-2010, 06:44 PM
Allstar not superstar

if Howard doesnt score he's not a superstar .....superstar can defend and shoot howard cant carry his team he has gotta have another star to play there i say if amare was his power they would win but with just a shooting core and him inside they will never win

Dwight Howards Name With the Real Superman Is disrespectful Shaq can carry his team dwight needs more then one star on his team he needs 2-3 like KG

Are you suggesting that KG, in his prime, was never a superstar? Because that would be incorrect.

TheDetroitBlue
05-17-2010, 06:47 PM
Id take Big Bens Defense IN HIS PRIME years over Dwights

But if I had to choose offense between the two I would choose Dwights

MagicBucsSox
05-17-2010, 06:51 PM
as a magic fan i can say : dwight is a superstar in the sense of the"fame" but as a superstart like magic, jordan, dream,duncan, even pat ewing who just played the wrong decade.

ITS NO REASON IN THE WORLD KENDRICK PERKINS , OR RASHEED SHOULD BE ABLE TO AFFECT HIS GAME AT ALLLLLLLLLL. PERKINS HAS ZERO TALENT AT ALL, HE'S NOT EVEN A GOOD DEFENDER. HE'S JUST IN THE WAY

MagicBucsSox
05-17-2010, 06:53 PM
Id take Big Bens Defense IN HIS PRIME years over Dwights

But if I had to choose offense between the two I would choose Dwights

BECAUSE YOUR A HOMER FOOL, BEN'S d IS NOWHERE NEAR DWIGHT for the simple facts dwight got bunnies. wallace couldnt jump on a sidewalk

RadiantShot
05-17-2010, 06:53 PM
Perkins is a Dwight-stopper, don't be ignorant MagicBucsSox. He does the best job on Dwight of anyone this season. He's tough as a rock.

RadiantShot
05-17-2010, 06:54 PM
MagicBucsSox, you're giving Magic fans a bad name. :|

MagicBucsSox
05-17-2010, 06:56 PM
Allstar not superstar

if Howard doesnt score he's not a superstar .....superstar can defend and shoot howard cant carry his team he has gotta have another star to play there i say if amare was his power they would win but with just a shooting core and him inside they will never win

Dwight Howards Name With the Real Superman Is disrespectful Shaq can carry his team dwight needs more then one star on his team he needs 2-3 like KG

ok first off shaq always had a great young perimeter player to take pressure off him unlike dwight. shaq also always had a true PF next to him always so calm down on the shaq hype. Penny,eddie jones,KObe,Wade and now Lebron

MagicBucsSox
05-17-2010, 06:58 PM
MagicBucsSox, you're giving Magic fans a bad name. :|

RS he's not a great defender at all, he does nothing , dwight simply needs to go striaght up and stop gathering his feet. no one in the league can jump with him and he should know that

tredigs
05-17-2010, 07:10 PM
BECAUSE YOUR A HOMER FOOL, BEN'S d IS NOWHERE NEAR DWIGHT for the simple facts dwight got bunnies. wallace couldnt jump on a sidewalk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QuivG44plqQ&feature=related

^? Skip to 2:40 and tell me that he's not getting up. In Ben's prime he's getting as many boards + more blocks and more steals than D. Howard with lower Defensive ratings (Dwight's best = Ben's career average).


ok first off shaq always had a great young perimeter player to take pressure off him unlike dwight. shaq also always had a true PF next to him always so calm down on the shaq hype. Penny,eddie jones,KObe,Wade and now Lebron

Dwight has as much perimeter help as anyone in the league right now, and having a PF like Lewis who can spread the floor and leave the PF out of position to properly double Dwight can only help him. Also, calling Perkins a weak defender when he's consistently killed Dwight defensively doesn't really help your point.

TheHebrewHammer
05-17-2010, 07:11 PM
This thread is pretty ridiculous.

The man controls a game defensively unlike any player in the league right now. No other player commonly mentioned as a super star Kobe, Lebron, Wade, and especially not Durant Comes close to having the defensive that Dwight Howard does. The minute he steps on the court his team is instantly one of the best defensive teams in the league because he shuts down the paint. Any avid basketball fan will tell you that a C controlling the paint is FAR more important than a perimeter defender.

The man leads the league in both Rebounds and Blocks.

And for all the talk about how enemic his offense, and how he doesnt carry his team, he shot 61.2% (tops for any regular player other than Amir Johnson and Dampier) From the floor this season while being the LEADING scorer on his team at 18.3 PPG and makes the same amount of free throws in a game as Kobe. I doubt he is hurting his team on the offensive end of the floor.

The man just led his team to 8 straight dominant wins, and he loses one game in which they came back by 4 points, and suddenly hes not a superstar. Meanwhile 3 of those 4 superstars mentioned that "carry their team offensively" are watching from home right now.

He led a team to the finals last year where the next best players were Rashard Lewis spotting in the corner shooting threes, and HEDO TURKOGLU creating the offense, and downed the Wunderkind Lebron James.

Flat out, this guy leads his team to WINNING more than 3 of those 4 mentioned. Only Kobe is still left in these playoffs, and his team is INFINITELY more talented than Dwights.

RadiantShot
05-17-2010, 07:13 PM
Tre, he get's up, but not as high as Dwight, that's the difference.

ryder78c
05-17-2010, 07:15 PM
Are you suggesting that KG, in his prime, was never a superstar? Because that would be incorrect.

never said dat i said KG needed players around him to Make it to the finals and win KG in his prime was good but needed a core to win it all id put howard and KG in the same category they need other stars to help em howards hopefully hasnt hit his ceiling like a young KG


MagicBucsSox yeah he had the outside shooters but he could carry a team on his back to the finals and win

Howard is good but he aint no shaq....shaq played D and offense they had to double shaq and send him to the free throw to stop him with the hack-a-shaq fouls you think kendrick perkins could stop shaq in his prime....NO

can perkins stop howard yes i think the magic fans who are still mad at shaq gave howard that nickname


RadiantShot...... Cosign that magicbucssox comment

RadiantShot
05-17-2010, 07:16 PM
No clue what that meant.

?

tredigs
05-17-2010, 07:19 PM
Tre, he get's up, but not as high as Dwight, that's the difference.

I realize, but he's also 6'9" with pumps on while Dwight's 6'11". He got up plenty, is my point. Can't argue with the fact that he's getting twice as many steals + more blocks, also. He was amazing defensively, and people seem to forget that players with limited offensive games have dominated the game equally as much as D. Howard on the defensive end as recently as 5-6 years ago.

Again, I still think Dwight's a superstar, but gotta put it in context.

IversonIsKrazy
05-17-2010, 07:21 PM
Hes not a player that can carry a team to a W, or a consistent go-to-guy, but has great defense, dominant with a lot of potential, but to answer ur question, it's tough. If a Superstar is a guy who is the best player on a very good team which deserves more name than an All-star, then yes, but a go-to-guy that u can trust to carry his team to a W when others aren't stepping up, a consistent player night-in-night-out on offense & defense, then no.

bmac_121
05-17-2010, 07:25 PM
No he's not. There are only 3"superstar" in the entire league right now, and they are obviously Kobe, LeBron, and Dwayne. IMO players like Dwight, Durant, Paul etc. are a step away from attaining superstardom. They're on a level ahead of players like Bosh, STAT, Peirce, Joe, etc. But stil aren't quite the level of Kobe, LeBron, and Dwayne. Dwight can't put a team on his back and take them all the way.

RadiantShot
05-17-2010, 07:28 PM
We may as well call a Superstar, a "Scoring-star" if what you guys say is true. Just saying.

ldc62
05-17-2010, 07:33 PM
No he's not. There are only 3"superstar" in the entire league right now, and they are obviously Kobe, LeBron, and Dwayne. IMO players like Dwight, Durant, Paul etc. are a step away from attaining superstardom. They're on a level ahead of players like Bosh, STAT, Peirce, Joe, etc. But stil aren't quite the level of Kobe, LeBron, and Dwayne. Dwight can't put a team on his back and take them all the way.

Neither can Lebron.

TheDetroitBlue
05-17-2010, 07:34 PM
BECAUSE YOUR A HOMER FOOL, BEN'S d IS NOWHERE NEAR DWIGHT for the simple facts dwight got bunnies. wallace couldnt jump on a sidewalk

I disagree,

5 Time All Defensive First Team
4 Time Defensive Player of the Year

Shortest Man Ever To reach 2000 Career blocks

Undrafted

One of the Hardest Working players of his era

TheDetroitBlue
05-17-2010, 07:38 PM
Oh yeah, and one of the most beastly blocks I have seen

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RlcIMb5YdyI

MagicBucsSox
05-17-2010, 07:45 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QuivG44plqQ&feature=related

^? Skip to 2:40 and tell me that he's not getting up. In Ben's prime he's getting as many boards + more blocks and more steals than D. Howard with lower Defensive ratings (Dwight's best = Ben's career average).



Dwight has as much perimeter help as anyone in the league right now, and having a PF like Lewis who can spread the floor and leave the PF out of position to properly double Dwight can only help him. Also, calling Perkins a weak defender when he's consistently killed Dwight defensively doesn't really help your point.



kendrick didnt stop dwight, dwight bricked every shot he put up, its not like perkins is blocking dwight all crazy, and dwight doesnt have a perimeter player that draws attention or a double like wade, kobe, bron, all dwight has is shooters and then every4games vince will show up

ryder78c
05-17-2010, 07:49 PM
We may as well call a Superstar, a "Scoring-star" if what you guys say is true. Just saying.

no a superstar guards and shoots both ends of the floor

Cosign means i agree with wut you said about givin the magic fans a bad name

RadiantShot
05-17-2010, 07:51 PM
Okay. Agreed then.