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surf and turf
05-16-2010, 03:11 PM
Anyone see this. It was pretty good. But Lamar Odam made a comment that i think sums up why Kobe will never be a great as Jordan, Magic or Bird. He said that he is so talented that his teammates develop bad habits. Those guys would never let that happen. It wasnt even a option for them. Thats all you heard about,, was how much better they make everyone of their teammates. Not developing bad habits. They put guys in the HOF. I do not think Kobe is capable of lifting another players game. Agree...Disagree??

tdunk21
05-16-2010, 03:30 PM
agree

ARMIN12NBA
05-16-2010, 03:43 PM
Disagree. Odom was talking about complacency.

Lets look back to SACRED HOOPS by Phil Jackson. PJ talked about Jordan's teammates doing the same thing when Jordan would go into his scoring modes. They would just watch and not be on top of their games (which is why he blamed Michael Jordan for the Bulls losing in the 1995 playoffs).

It's not a big deal and it doesn't mean they didn't help their teammates. You are reading way too much into this.

Toenail Clipper
05-16-2010, 04:25 PM
How about Pau Gasol?

surf and turf
05-16-2010, 04:42 PM
How about Pau Gasol?

what about him. He is the same player he has always been. Actually, he may have been better before playing with Kobe.

COBY KARL
05-16-2010, 04:53 PM
Anyone see this. It was pretty good. But Lamar Odam made a comment that i think sums up why Kobe will never be a great as Jordan, Magic or Bird. He said that he is so talented that his teammates develop bad habits. Those guys would never let that happen. It wasnt even a option for them. Thats all you heard about,, was how much better they make everyone of their teammates. Not developing bad habits. They put guys in the HOF. I do not think Kobe is capable of lifting another players game. Agree...Disagree??

that's not what Lamar odom meant....
he was saying that Kobe is so talented that when they're stuck in a rut that Kobe will always pull them out of it which is why he says they're spoiled. That doesn't mean Jordan's teammates didn't feel the same way.

Odom says that they develop bad habits because instead of trying to get out the jam themselves, they always have Kobe to bail them out. Same goes for Jordan's, Bird's, and Magic's teammates otherwise those teams would've never been successful.

Avenged
05-16-2010, 04:56 PM
Doubt Odom meant Kobe will never as good as the greats. Come on they're teammates and great friends. You took his words the wrong way.

Avenged
05-16-2010, 04:57 PM
And no Gasol is better now than he's ever been.

IAmKira
05-16-2010, 05:06 PM
Anyone see this. It was pretty good. But Lamar Odam made a comment that i think sums up why Kobe will never be a great as Jordan, Magic or Bird. He said that he is so talented that his teammates develop bad habits. Those guys would never let that happen. It wasnt even a option for them. Thats all you heard about,, was how much better they make everyone of their teammates. Not developing bad habits. They put guys in the HOF. I do not think Kobe is capable of lifting another players game. Agree...Disagree??


:facepalm: first of all, ur like a month late. Secondly, Odom meant that when he was talking about how fhking clutch kobe is.

Aleast spell his name right :facepalm:

madiaz3
05-16-2010, 05:08 PM
Gasol was not better in Memphis than he is now.

PurpleJesus
05-16-2010, 05:10 PM
you dont think kobe is as great as bird or magic? i disagree with that

Hotone1401
05-16-2010, 05:12 PM
Anyone see this. It was pretty good. But Lamar Odam made a comment that i think sums up why Kobe will never be a great as Jordan, Magic or Bird. He said that he is so talented that his teammates develop bad habits. Those guys would never let that happen. It wasnt even a option for them. Thats all you heard about,, was how much better they make everyone of their teammates. Not developing bad habits. They put guys in the HOF. I do not think Kobe is capable of lifting another players game. Agree...Disagree??

Stick to football buddy because I seriously doubt you know much about the game of basketball. :facepalm:

heathonater
05-16-2010, 05:15 PM
gasol sure has gotten alot better with kobe.

still1ballin
05-16-2010, 05:17 PM
then don't watch

surf and turf
05-16-2010, 05:31 PM
you dont think kobe is as great as bird or magic? i disagree with that

NOT EVEN CLOSE. Please do not think that he is. Please.

surf and turf
05-16-2010, 05:33 PM
Stick to football buddy because I seriously doubt you know much about the game of basketball. :facepalm:

I forgot more about basketball then you will ever know in 10 lifetimes.

COBY KARL
05-16-2010, 05:36 PM
I forgot more about basketball then you will ever know in 10 lifetimes.

:confused:

sorry but Jerry West even said that Kobe is the best Laker yet. bet you didn't know that.

Lakersfan2483
05-16-2010, 05:38 PM
Anyone see this. It was pretty good. But Lamar Odam made a comment that i think sums up why Kobe will never be a great as Jordan, Magic or Bird. He said that he is so talented that his teammates develop bad habits. Those guys would never let that happen. It wasnt even a option for them. Thats all you heard about,, was how much better they make everyone of their teammates. Not developing bad habits. They put guys in the HOF. I do not think Kobe is capable of lifting another players game. Agree...Disagree??

You clearly don't understand the game if you make ill informed statements look the one you made and you misunderstood what Lamar was saying.... See Armin12's quote on the first page for clarification on what Lamar meant.

IAmKira
05-16-2010, 05:43 PM
I forgot more about basketball then you will ever know in 10 lifetimes.

Forgot? You never knew about basketball in the first place. :horse::horse:

surf and turf
05-16-2010, 05:48 PM
He said what he said. I saw it. Develops bad habits. Thats exactlty what he said.As a leader you cant let that happen. If you want to stand around and watch Bird he will break your nose with a pass. Then push the front office to ship you out. There were no conflicts with teammates. You put the team first or your gone. Kobe may have more talent then all three of those guys. So why do most people consider him a notch below them...its because he does not have the ability to make a average player great.

td0tsfinest
05-16-2010, 05:49 PM
Stop *****ing at one another and just answer the question. Does Kobe elevate his teammates games ?

I think he does. He'll get on his teammates if they aren't working their hardest. He doesn't do it in the same sense that JKidd or Steve Nash do but does light the fire under his teammates.

surf and turf
05-16-2010, 05:52 PM
Forgot? You never knew about basketball in the first place. :horse::horse:

I would beat you down much worse then that horse is getting it. I KNOW that....lol

surf and turf
05-16-2010, 05:55 PM
Stop *****ing at one another and just answer the question. Does Kobe elevate his teammates games ?

I think he does. He'll get on his teammates if they aren't working their hardest. He doesn't do it in the same sense that JKidd or Steve Nash do but does light the fire under his teammates.

Wow a normal response. Thats awful human of you. I hope everyone understands that when someone has to use Bird, Jordan and Magic to compare to ....well , thats a compliment.

Lakersfan2483
05-16-2010, 05:55 PM
He doesn't elevate his teammates play, yet he's won 4 titles and just won his 4th last year? I am calling BS on that (Pau has had career highs since playing with Bryant, ditto for other players). Also, Pau, Lamar and co. have all been on record stating that Kobe has made them a better player during practice and have made them tougher mentally. His leadership abilites have been well documented and Phil has vouched that his leadership skills have been great over the past 4 years....

This is the 3rd year in the row that LA is in the Western Conference Finals and they are in position to possibly win a 2nd straight title. Obviously Kobe is doing something right as the team's leader. If he wins a title this year, he will have won 5 titles which is remarkable considering he won 3 way back in the early 00's and now we are in 2010 and he's still looking to add more titles. All of that speaks to his legacy and the type of leader he has become. You don't win multiple rings if you don't elevate the level of play of your teammates around you (I am refering to the team's best player).

td0tsfinest
05-16-2010, 06:01 PM
Wow a normal response. Thats awful human of you. I hope everyone understands that when someone has to use Bird, Jordan and Magic to compare to ....well , thats a compliment.

well, I don't want you to think the posters in the nba forum just gang up on people rather than talking about the thread.

ARMIN12NBA
05-16-2010, 06:05 PM
what about him. He is the same player he has always been. Actually, he may have been better before playing with Kobe.

^ The epitome of blatantly being wrong and uninformed.

Hotone1401
05-16-2010, 06:05 PM
I forgot more about basketball then you will ever know in 10 lifetimes.

How do you forget about the game of basketball? It's either you have an understanding of how the game is played or you don't and it's clear you don't. To say Kobe doesn't raise the play of his teammates is an ignorant remark. How else is his team in the WCF?? How has he managed to win 4 titles if every teammate of his plays worse along side him? I can't understand your reasoning for that remark, but what I do know, is that if you were right in your interpretation of Lamar's comment than the Kobe wouldn't be the winner that he has proven to be.

tr4shb0t
05-16-2010, 06:05 PM
You could list tons of players who were statistically better playing with kobe. Not sure how you could make an argument at all.

surf and turf
05-16-2010, 06:06 PM
well, I don't want you to think the posters in the nba forum just gang up on people rather than talking about the thread.

That does seem to happen around 90 percent of the time. Normally due to lack of knowledge .

Lakersfan2483
05-16-2010, 06:08 PM
That does seem to happen around 90 percent of the time. Normally due to lack of knowledge .

Everyone on here is adddressing your thread and giving you factual evidence in terms of disproving your claim.

surf and turf
05-16-2010, 06:12 PM
How do you forget about the game of basketball? It's either you have an understanding of how the game is played or you don't and it's clear you don't. To say Kobe doesn't raise the play of his teammates is an ignorant remark. How else is his team in the WCF?? How has he managed to win 4 titles if every teammate of his plays worse along side him? I can't understand your reasoning for that remark, but what I do know, is that if you were right in your interpretation of Lamar's comment than the Kobe wouldn't be the winner that he has proven to be.

You must be reading a diffrent thread. Where did i say he doesnt raise the play of his teammates? I said he couldnt make a average player , play great. Take Bird for example, he had guys like Jerry Sichting, Kevin McChale, Robert Parrish, Scott Wedman , Danny Ainge, ....all average. But they played great. Because of Bird.

Lakersfan2483
05-16-2010, 06:16 PM
You must be reading a diffrent thread. Where did i say he doesnt raise the play of his teammates? I said he couldnt make a average player , play great. Take Bird for example, he had guys like Jerry Sichting, Kevin McChale, Robert Parrish, Scott Wedman , Danny Ainge, ....all average. But they played great. Because of Bird.

You don't recall Smush Parker avg. a career high of 11 a night and being our full time starter (he's no longer in the NBA), or how about Luke Walton averaging a career high the year he was a starter and was tops in the NBA in 3 point shooting, ditto for Kwame Brown and the rest of that mediocore team that won won 45 games. Bryant elevated the play of all of those mediocore players, you just don't know what you are talking about.

kblo247
05-16-2010, 06:18 PM
He said what he said. I saw it. Develops bad habits. Thats exactlty what he said.As a leader you cant let that happen. If you want to stand around and watch Bird he will break your nose with a pass. Then push the front office to ship you out. There were no conflicts with teammates. You put the team first or your gone. Kobe may have more talent then all three of those guys. So why do most people consider him a notch below them...its because he does not have the ability to make a average player great.

Who the **** was average that Bird and Magic made great?
- Scott, Worthy, Kareem, Green, Rambis, Cooper, McAdoo
- Parish, Mchale, Walton, Scott

I really want to know :eyebrow:

You can't make a player great; you can help them be better. Last I checked

- Chucky Atkins has the best year of his career playing next to Kobe
- Brian Cook was a rotation player with Kobe
- Smush Parker was a starting NBA PG next to him
- Radmanovic shot the best percentage of his career from deep with him
- Shaq didn't dominate and win to Kobe developed with an all star backcourt
- Fisher's best years of his careers have been next to Kobe
- George was a rotation player next to Kobe at SF
- Ariza developed into the player he is admittedly because of him
- Shannon is a rotation player after bouncing from team to team with him
- Gasol's best seasons have come next to Kobe
- Odom's best seasons have come next to Kobe
- Mihm became a full time NBA starter next to him

Let's not act like Kobe makes players worse. You can't name a star wing in the game besides Wade and Ginobili when he is right that players have played better with. That includes Lebron when you actually look at how the players around him regress and become neutered historically.

Why didn't you also point out that in that video it shows Kobe teaching guys where to go on offense, how to defend, studying the game, and basically coaching on the floor? That didn't suit your agenda enough right?

TheGsw
05-16-2010, 06:22 PM
Who the **** was average that Bird and Magic made great?
- Scott, Worthy, Kareem, Green, Rambis, Cooper, McAdoo
- Parish, Mchale, Walton, Scott

I really want to know

You can't make a player great; you can help them be better. Last I checked

- Chucky Atkins has the best year of his career playing next to Kobe
- Brian Cook was a rotation player with Kobe
- Smush Parker was a starting NBA PG next to him
- Radmanovic shot the best percentage of his career from deep with him
- Shaq didn't dominate and win to Kobe developed with an all star backcourt
- Fisher's best years of his careers have been next to Kobe
- George was a rotation player next to Kobe at SF
- Ariza developed into the player he is admittedly because of him
- Shannon is a rotation player after bouncing from team to team with him
- Gasol's best seasons have come next to Kobe
- Odom's best seasons have come next to Kobe
- Mihm became a full time NBA starter next to him

Let's not act like Kobe makes players worse. You can't name a star wing in the game besides Wade and Ginobili when he is right that players have played better with. That includes Lebron when you actually look at how the players around him regress and become neutered historically.

Why didn't you also point out that in that video it shows Kobe teaching guys where to go on offense, how to defend, studying the game, and basically coaching on the floor? That didn't suit your agenda enough right?
Well said!

surf and turf
05-16-2010, 06:22 PM
I said that they made them play great, and they did. Please pay attention, especially if your going to post such a long response.

borat
05-16-2010, 06:23 PM
You must be reading a diffrent thread. Where did i say he doesnt raise the play of his teammates? I said he couldnt make a average player , play great. Take Bird for example, he had guys like Jerry Sichting, Kevin McChale, Robert Parrish, Scott Wedman , Danny Ainge, ....all average. But they played great. Because of Bird.



You are saying Bird made Mchale and Parish hall of fame players? Wait your are saying those 2 were just average before Bird made them Hall of fame players? :laugh:

Lakersfan2483
05-16-2010, 06:23 PM
Who the **** was average that Bird and Magic made great?
- Scott, Worthy, Kareem, Green, Rambis, Cooper, McAdoo
- Parish, Mchale, Walton, Scott

I really want to know :eyebrow:

You can't make a player great; you can help them be better. Last I checked

- Chucky Atkins has the best year of his career playing next to Kobe
- Brian Cook was a rotation player with Kobe
- Smush Parker was a starting NBA PG next to him
- Radmanovic shot the best percentage of his career from deep with him
- Shaq didn't dominate and win to Kobe developed with an all star backcourt
- Fisher's best years of his careers have been next to Kobe
- George was a rotation player next to Kobe at SF
- Ariza developed into the player he is admittedly because of him
- Shannon is a rotation player after bouncing from team to team with him
- Gasol's best seasons have come next to Kobe
- Odom's best seasons have come next to Kobe
- Mihm became a full time NBA starter next to him

Let's not act like Kobe makes players worse. You can't name a star wing in the game besides Wade and Ginobili when he is right that players have played better with. That includes Lebron when you actually look at how the players around him regress and become neutered historically.

Why didn't you also point out that in that video it shows Kobe teaching guys where to go on offense, how to defend, studying the game, and basically coaching on the floor? That didn't suit your agenda enough right?

Once again, Kblo is delivering in the clutch..:):clap:

kblo247
05-16-2010, 06:24 PM
You must be reading a diffrent thread. Where did i say he doesnt raise the play of his teammates? I said he couldnt make a average player , play great. Take Bird for example, he had guys like Jerry Sichting, Kevin McChale, Robert Parrish, Scott Wedman , Danny Ainge, ....all average. But they played great. Because of Bird.

Did you just call Mchale average? For his times that guy had the best moves on the block for all PFs and Karl Malone & Charles Barkley are both on record of saying he would put them in the torture chamber.

Parrish wasn't average either for the time he played in. Now and in the 90s yes, but for that time his body and skills were perennial all star worthy.

Bird's teams had talent, just like Magic's Showtime teams that were built so that his weaknesses weren't shown and his strengths were on display.

They won rings with their talent which is the ultimate test of whether or not they maximized what their team had, and Kobe did the same. His teams have never been as deep as Bird's or Magic's top to bottom (always a dynamic duo) which is why he was asked to score/defend/playmake/close primarily at times mostly by himself, but when he has been blessed to play with talent he has won with them and that is all that matters in the grand scheme of things.

borat
05-16-2010, 06:24 PM
Whether or not Kobe makes players great doesn't matter. All that matters is rings. If kobe gets one this year and another one next year, does it matter at all if he is playing with average or great players? Who gives a ****?

surf and turf
05-16-2010, 06:24 PM
How many people here actually watched the entire careers of all the players i am mentioning??????

surf and turf
05-16-2010, 06:26 PM
You are saying Bird made Mchale and Parish hall of fame players? Wait your are saying those 2 were just average before Bird made them Hall of fame players? :laugh:

Im saying they ARE average players, that overachieved because of a animal that they were playing with that would not allow anything less.

surf and turf
05-16-2010, 06:27 PM
Whether or not Kobe makes players great doesn't matter. All that matters is rings. If kobe gets one this year and another one next year, does it matter at all if he is playing with average or great players? Who gives a ****?

Shaq gives a ****.....thats who

Lakersfan2483
05-16-2010, 06:27 PM
I said that they made them play great, and they did. Please pay attention, especially if your going to post such a long response.

You said Mchale and Parrish were average players, but they are top 50 all time greats. Bird made them better, but make no mistake about it, they would still be in the Hall if they had played elsewhere. They were by no means average players. You are losing credibility by the minute, keep it up.

NPH
05-16-2010, 06:28 PM
I forgot more about basketball then you will ever know in 10 lifetimes.

:eyebrow:



than*

You're welcome.

lakerboy
05-16-2010, 06:29 PM
NOT EVEN CLOSE. Please do not think that he is. Please.

Once Kobe gets ring #5, we will have a very solid argument.

ARMIN12NBA
05-16-2010, 06:29 PM
He said what he said. I saw it. Develops bad habits. Thats exactlty what he said.As a leader you cant let that happen. If you want to stand around and watch Bird he will break your nose with a pass. Then push the front office to ship you out. There were no conflicts with teammates. You put the team first or your gone. Kobe may have more talent then all three of those guys. So why do most people consider him a notch below them...its because he does not have the ability to make a average player great.

1. I think you are forgetting the players and thinking of the legends. There is a huge difference between the players and the legend.

2. Nobody has the ability to make an average player great. An average player is average. A player can only make an average player look better than what he is, but it doesn't mean the average player is all of a sudden great.

3. In this same video (which you claim you watch), Phil Jackson calls Kobe a great and dynamic leader. A guy who holds his teammates to a high standard and expects great play from each and every one of them. He says that Kobe lets guys know how to improve and how to play their best...This is the same exact thing you are saying Bird and Magic do as leaders. Kobe does it as well.

4. Odom says what he said because he feels that Kobe's teammates are spoiled by his greatness so sometimes they can get complacent as they expect Kobe to pull the win out for them (that is the bad habit).

Now, as I said, Phil Jackson said Jordan's teammates did the same exact thing in his book, Sacred Hoops.

Magic was a point guard, not a scorer, so his job was more to get teammates involved naturally.

NPH
05-16-2010, 06:30 PM
Shaq gives a ****.....thats who

What the ****?

I bet you were on the debate team, huh?
:rolleyes:

surf and turf
05-16-2010, 06:30 PM
Did you just call Mchale average? For his times that guy had the best moves on the block for all PFs and Karl Malone & Charles Barkley are both on record of saying he would put them in the torture chamber.

Parrish wasn't average either for the time he played in. Now and in the 90s yes, but for that time his body and skills were perennial all star worthy.

Bird's teams had talent, just like Magic's Showtime teams that were built so that his weaknesses weren't shown and his strengths were on display.

They won rings with their talent which is the ultimate test of whether or not they maximized what their team had, and Kobe did the same. His teams have never been as deep as Bird's or Magic's top to bottom (always a dynamic duo) which is why he was asked to score/defend/playmake/close primarily at times mostly by himself, but when he has been blessed to play with talent he has won with them and that is all that matters in the grand scheme of things.

When McChale got to Boston he came off the bench. Then he won a sixth man of the year and became a starter. Please do not call the Celtics of that time deep. You really sound silly. Sichting, Wedman, a half dead Walton, is that deep?

surf and turf
05-16-2010, 06:32 PM
What the ****?

I bet you were on the debate team, huh?
:rolleyes:

I whish you were bright enough to understand that what i meant was he won some rings with one of the most dominant players in NBA history. I thought everyone would get that one...

Lakersfan2483
05-16-2010, 06:34 PM
When McChale got to Boston he came off the bench. Then he won a sixth man of the year and became a starter. Please do not call the Celtics of that time deep. You really sound silly. Sichting, Wedman, a half dead Walton, is that deep?

The 80's Celtics are considered one of the most deep and talented teams of all time, what are you talking about? They had arguably the greatest front court of all time in Bird, Mchale and Parrish. Not too mention the depth in terms of having Ainge, Dennis Johnson, Cedric Maxwell (during the early 80's).

kblo247
05-16-2010, 06:35 PM
Shaq gives a ****.....thats who

Facts:

Shaq's best years of his career were based on Kobe setting him up. You ask him and he'll tell you himself, "I threw the jabs and he hit the KO punch"

Shaq is on record of saying he has never played with a better player or playmaker for him just last year while playing with Steve Nash.

Shaq won jack and **** before Kobe became a starter. After that happened Kobe took over as option 2, closer, primary defender, and facilitator. His production and role was basically that off Eddie Jones and Van Exel who were the all star backcourt that had him on the bench. The team also lost a 15 and 8 PF in Campbell. They won with a basic rotation of Shaq, Kobe, Fisher, Fox, Horry, and Shaw. That team lost considerable depth as those guys I mentioned sans Shaw were reserves on the teams Shaq didn't win with. Shaq was definitely Superman in his prime, but it wasn't like Kobe wasn't closer to Batman than he was to Robin back then when you actually pay attention the multiple roles Phil had hm fill to make up for their increasing loss of depth with every passing year.

It has been admitted by Shaq himself that he wouldn't mind ending his career with Kobe and in LA as opposed to any of his past stops.

So say what?

CLASSOF72
05-16-2010, 06:35 PM
So you finaly have proof, Kobe just isn't a legend. Good work surf and turf.

NBAfan4life
05-16-2010, 06:36 PM
NOT EVEN CLOSE. Please do not think that he is. Please.

Last time I checked most people thought of Kobe being on Bird and Magics level.

kblo247
05-16-2010, 06:36 PM
When McChale got to Boston he came off the bench. Then he won a sixth man of the year and became a starter. Please do not call the Celtics of that time deep. You really sound silly. Sichting, Wedman, a half dead Walton, is that deep?

For that time and the league then, yes!

Name a team that was deeper back then besides the Showtime Lakers that Magic played on.

Lakersfan2483
05-16-2010, 06:37 PM
I whish you were bright enough to understand that what i meant was he won some rings with one of the most dominant players in NBA history. I thought everyone would get that one...

As did Earvin "Magic" Johnson, Jerry West, Dr. J, and so on and so forth.

NPH
05-16-2010, 06:37 PM
I whish you were bright enough to understand that what i meant was he won some rings with one of the most dominant players in NBA history. I thought everyone would get that one...

Oh, really?

Do you really, "whish", I was bright enough?

surf and turf
05-16-2010, 06:38 PM
1. I think you are forgetting the players and thinking of the legends. There is a huge difference between the players and the legend.

2. Nobody has the ability to make an average player great. An average player is average. A player can only make an average player look better than what he is, but it doesn't mean the average player is all of a sudden great.

3. In this same video (which you claim you watch), Phil Jackson calls Kobe a great and dynamic leader. A guy who holds his teammates to a high standard and expects great play from each and every one of them. He says that Kobe lets guys know how to improve and how to play their best...This is the same exact thing you are saying Bird and Magic do as leaders. Kobe does it as well.

4. Odom says what he said because he feels that Kobe's teammates are spoiled by his greatness so sometimes they can get complacent as they expect Kobe to pull the win out for them (that is the bad habit).

Now, as I said, Phil Jackson said Jordan's teammates did the same exact thing in his book, Sacred Hoops.

Magic was a point guard, not a scorer, so his job was more to get teammates involved naturally.

I did watch it, and that all came right after that comment was made. I was very immpressed how hard he works and how much everyone thinks of him. That is why he is top 10 all time..Let me put it this way. If he played with the same teams Bird played for, minus Bird of course. I do not think they would have ever beat the Magic led Lakers. If he played on the Indiana ST. team that bird did, they would have never made it to the Finals against Magic. Can anyone even name another player on that team that went undefeated untill the loss to STATE.

surf and turf
05-16-2010, 06:44 PM
[QUOTE=Lakersfan2483;13339766]As did Earvin "Magic" Johnson, Jerry West, Dr. J, and so on and so forth.[/QUOTE

Really, Kareem, but he was getting old. Rambis..no,,Cooper...no..Scott...no..Worthy, great but among the most dominant of all time..no.Jamal Wilkes ..no Andrew Toney..no ..Maurice Cheeks ..No. DD, no..and so on and so forth. And im sure you can tell by the spelling i dont need to google their teams because i was there.

kblo247
05-16-2010, 06:46 PM
I did watch it, and that all came right after that comment was made. I was very immpressed how hard he works and how much everyone thinks of him. That is why he is top 10 all time..Let me put it this way. If he played with the same teams Bird played for, minus Bird of course. I do not think they would have ever beat the Magic led Lakers. If he played on the Indiana ST. team that bird did, they would have never made it to the Finals against Magic. Can anyone even name another player on that team that went undefeated untill the loss to STATE.

You do know that Kobe would beat Bird or Magic right and be considered a freak of that time unless you are talking about regressing his genetics and the effect of modern medicine to match those times right? You simply can't just put him back in that time period now, let alone at his peak because his because his speed, strength, and athleticism were not common at all. He'd be the Lebron of that time in the early 70s and 80s.

Magic would hate to admit it, but his own teammates in Worthy, Kareem, and Rambis are all on record of saying Kobe is a much better and more complete player than Magic ever was even at his peak as he is better on both ends and more skilled.

Lakersfan2483
05-16-2010, 06:48 PM
[QUOTE=Lakersfan2483;13339766]As did Earvin "Magic" Johnson, Jerry West, Dr. J, and so on and so forth.[/QUOTE

Really, Kareem, but he was getting old. Rambis..no,,Cooper...no..Scott...no..Worthy, great but among the most dominant of all time..no.Jamal Wilkes ..no Andrew Toney..no ..Maurice Cheeks ..No. DD, no..and so on and so forth. And im sure you can tell by the spelling i dont need to google their teams because i was there.

West played with Wilt. Dr. J played with Moses Malone and Magic played with Kareem (who was still the team's best player in the early 80's and an MVP during the early 80's. Riley changed the focus of the team after the 85 season.)

KBfrom8to24
05-16-2010, 06:48 PM
NOT EVEN CLOSE. Please do not think that he is. Please.

Yes it's not even closed, because Kobe have surpassed them already.

kblo247
05-16-2010, 06:51 PM
[QUOTE=surf and turf;13339838]

West played with Wilt. Dr. J played with Moses Malone and Magic played with Kareem (who was still the team's best player in the early 80's and an MVP during the early 80's. Riley changed the focus of the team after the 85 season.)

West also played with Goodrich and Elgin Baylor, who was freak of nature

surf and turf
05-16-2010, 06:52 PM
For that time and the league then, yes!

Name a team that was deeper back then besides the Showtime Lakers that Magic played on.

They were very deep. Very Talented, very well coached. Boston was not. It wasnt untill Portland made their run that the league had a team with a bench that could rival the Lakers. But did you see the HBO show on Bird and Magic. They showed Magics first game in which Kareem won a game against the worse team in the NBA (clippers) with a last second sky hook. And Magic went hay wire. Hugging, jumping, crying, just like if they won a ring. This was game 1. People were looking at him like he was crazy. But without having to put it into words so i dont offend these over sensitive Kobe fans...thats what made those guys diffrent...whatever it is..they were diffrent. And they were better team basketball players .

surf and turf
05-16-2010, 06:54 PM
Yes it's not even closed, because Kobe have surpassed them already.

Yeah...in makeup , and money. Dont do this to yourself. Your saying Kobe is the greatest basketball player of all time....Really??? are you really saying that. COME ON MAN

surf and turf
05-16-2010, 06:58 PM
[QUOTE=Lakersfan2483;13339881]

West also played with Goodrich and Elgin Baylor, who was freak of nature

Im old but not that old,so in a sense its ignorant for me to call Magic, Bird and Jordan the best 3 of all time without being educated in those earlier players. But i just am not. Iv seen films, and stats, and their rings but you will not hear me talk much about players i didnt watch live.

_KB24_
05-16-2010, 06:58 PM
No point in arguing with a guy who calls McHale and Parrish "average" players. Wow. :facepalm:

Those guys are LEGENDS, and I don't care if they played beside ****ing Jack Haley, they would give everything they have out on the court.

KBfrom8to24
05-16-2010, 07:02 PM
Yeah...in makeup , and money. Dont do this to yourself. Your saying Kobe is the greatest basketball player of all time....Really??? are you really saying that. COME ON MAN

I'm not saying that he's the GOAT because it belongs to the great MJ. But he's the only one who could surpass MJ as the GOAT, when his career is over. What I'm saying is, in his 14 years of existence he already surpassed Bird & Magic, with his unmatched accomplishments.

ARMIN12NBA
05-16-2010, 07:10 PM
They were very deep. Very Talented, very well coached. Boston was not. It wasnt untill Portland made their run that the league had a team with a bench that could rival the Lakers. But did you see the HBO show on Bird and Magic. They showed Magics first game in which Kareem won a game against the worse team in the NBA (clippers) with a last second sky hook. And Magic went hay wire. Hugging, jumping, crying, just like if they won a ring. This was game 1. People were looking at him like he was crazy. But without having to put it into words so i dont offend these over sensitive Kobe fans...thats what made those guys diffrent...whatever it is..they were diffrent. And they were better team basketball players .

They are different to you because the many years that have past since they have retired has built up a greater legend in your mind. Heck, in 84, people were calling Magic a huge choker. Remember that? Sometimes you need a little perspective as it is so much easier to build a player up when you only have the fond memories.

SouljahPhil...
05-16-2010, 07:19 PM
Philthy sig man..Love it!!!!:clap::clap::clap:

surf and turf
05-16-2010, 07:19 PM
I'm not saying that he's the GOAT because it belongs to the great MJ. But he's the only one who could surpass MJ as the GOAT, when his career is over. What I'm saying is, in his 14 years of existence he already surpassed Bird & Magic, with his unmatched accomplishments.

Then you should be able to end this thread. If Kobe is a better shooter then MJ, which he is he has much more range, better in transition which he is, probably even better on defense and passing, Maybe MJ was a slightly better rebounder and had better court presence. But if all that is true then why do you think MJ is better. What makes MJ better then Kobe ?

surf and turf
05-16-2010, 07:22 PM
They are different to you because the many years that have past since they have retired has built up a greater legend in your mind. Heck, in 84, people were calling Magic a huge choker. Remember that? Sometimes you need a little perspective as it is so much easier to build a player up when you only have the fond memories.

Anyone who followed his career up untill that point did not call him a choker. It was the racist media that were trying to convince everyone Bird was better instead of letting their careers decide it. Bird was better but it wasnt because Magic dribbled the clock out that one time.

surf and turf
05-16-2010, 07:24 PM
Maybe i can learn something here. You never stop learning. But can someone tell me what makes MJ better then Kobe without saying he made his teammates better...because i think someone said that already.

PrettyBoyJ
05-16-2010, 07:29 PM
that's not what Lamar odom meant....
he was saying that Kobe is so talented that when they're stuck in a rut that Kobe will always pull them out of it which is why he says they're spoiled. That doesn't mean Jordan's teammates didn't feel the same way.

Odom says that they develop bad habits because instead of trying to get out the jam themselves, they always have Kobe to bail them out. Same goes for Jordan's, Bird's, and Magic's teammates otherwise those teams would've never been successful.

thts what Lamar meant.. and besides Kobe forces you to raise your level.. I guess u didnt see the part when he says he's always hard on Pau because he know's he;s a great player and he know Pau can raise his level more then what he brings on the court evry night

surf and turf
05-16-2010, 07:33 PM
What makes MJ better....hello?...anyone?:cricket:

Avenged
05-16-2010, 07:35 PM
He said what he said. I saw it. Develops bad habits. Thats exactlty what he said.As a leader you cant let that happen. If you want to stand around and watch Bird he will break your nose with a pass. Then push the front office to ship you out. There were no conflicts with teammates. You put the team first or your gone. Kobe may have more talent then all three of those guys. So why do most people consider him a notch below them...its because he does not have the ability to make a average player great.

It's not that at all. It more has to do with the fact that those guys are pretty much retired legends. If Kobe was retired right now than I could see where you're going with this. But Kobe still have a couple years left at the top of the league. A couple more rings and he'll be in the talks with them if he isn't already (according to you). All I'm saying is to give him time because he isn't retired and has plenty of opportunities especially with the team he has around him.

Eagles4Lyfe
05-16-2010, 07:36 PM
hahah this guy got it so bad he couldnt even defend himself but to start insulting people..typical cowboy fan kobes a star in the league for a reason and how many times have you seen the coach sit back and let kobe coach the team and guide players..This guys talking without knowing his facts

Avenged
05-16-2010, 07:37 PM
What makes MJ better....hello?...anyone?:cricket:

His rings and stats. On top of him being the most efficient player ever.

It's not because he made everyone around him better. It does help, but that's probably the last thing people look at.

surf and turf
05-16-2010, 07:43 PM
His rings and stats. On top of him being the most efficient player ever.

It's not because he made everyone around him better. It does help, but that's probably the last thing people look at.

Thats the last thing people who do not know the game look at. Kobe has rings and stats as well. If you replaced Kobe with MJ in 08 i would bet good money the Celtics would have had a much harder time , and probably would have lost.

surf and turf
05-16-2010, 07:45 PM
hahah this guy got it so bad he couldnt even defend himself but to start insulting people..typical cowboy fan kobes a star in the league for a reason and how many times have you seen the coach sit back and let kobe coach the team and guide players..This guys talking without knowing his facts

Im going to ignore you because the misery you are about to feel this year makes me ,,,sad in a way. Im going to miss you guys in here this year. Stay warm this winter. And enjoy the season. And i didnt say Kobe was just a star i called him top 10 all time. Sorry

IAmKira
05-16-2010, 07:47 PM
The opening question to the thread is so ********. First of all, a player does not contribute to the greatness of another. Aleast not much in my opinion. It is up to their coach and the system they run. Some players flourish in one system while sum dont. In terms of being a leader and wat not, Kobe obviously have the ability. Just look at the ring he won last year.

MTar786
05-16-2010, 07:49 PM
kobe doesnt make his players better?? Look at shannon brown

LA_Raiders
05-16-2010, 07:49 PM
what about him. He is the same player he has always been. Actually, he may have been better before playing with Kobe.

lol, ok

Avenged
05-16-2010, 07:50 PM
Thats the last thing people who do not know the game look at. Kobe has rings and stats as well. If you replaced Kobe with MJ in 08 i would bet good money the Celtics would have had a much harder time , and probably would have lost.

Yes, but Jordan's stats are better than Kobe's and he has more rings. I don't know if anybody is arguing that Kobe is better than Jordan since I didn't read the whole thread. Making other players better doesn't necessarily mean he's one of the greatest or if he doesn't make them better it doesn't mean he isn't one of the greatest. Steve Nash and Chris Paul for example, make everyone around them better but they aren't in this discussion and shouldn't be. You want to know why? It comes down to championship + stats.

And if the Celtics would have had a harder time against MJ, it would have been because MJ is the better player. Not because he made "everyone around him better".

IAmKira
05-16-2010, 07:52 PM
Yes, but Jordan's stats are better than Kobe's and he has more rings. I don't know if anybody is arguing that Kobe is better than Jordan since I didn't read the whole thread. Making other players better doesn't necessarily mean he's one of the greatest or if he doesn't make them better it doesn't mean he isn't one of the greatest. Steve Nash and Chris Paul for example, make everyone around them better but they aren't in this discussion and shouldn't be. You want to know why? It comes down to championship + stats.

And if the Celtics would have had a harder time against MJ, it would have been because MJ is the better player. Not because he made "everyone around him better".

Or maybe its their freaking job as a point guard!?
i bet even the greatest of all point guards can not make a player like Kwame Brown into a better player :)

surf and turf
05-16-2010, 07:54 PM
If any of you were lucky enough to watch MJ,you know what im talking about. I geuss in a way this is a Kobe vs...those other guys. But what surprises me is that a lot of you act like it hasnt been discussed. You act like i am the only person the the world that thinks he is behind those 3 guys. And im not ignorant enough to say its his basketball ability that makes that true. He has more god given talent in his left hand then Bird or Magic had in their entire body. So obviously, if someone feels they are better, it is because they were known for unselfish play and great teammwork. Can Kobe score 8 points and still be the best player on the court. And the reason for a victory. I just dont think he is . Bird can score no points and still be the MVP of a game. Thats just not Kobe.