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cowboydoc45
05-12-2010, 09:48 PM
I am not convinced that this team is "broken". We haven't played that well yet, but we also have played some good games. Honestly, we are better than what our record states. I am not creating this as a panic thread, just as a place to vent some ideas to "fix" the team. Lets start with pitching.

Right now, the team has some depth at SP, and from a couple of surprising people. Gorzolany and Silva have been fairly solid, which meant that someone was going to be expendable when Lilly came back. I don't know that Zambrano to the pen was the best idea, but it seems to be working, for now. Here is what I would do. I would keep Zambrano in the pen for now. If one of our guys starts to "slip", put them in the pen for a while as the 8th inning guy and bring Zambrano back. If we are confident that Castro is going to stay in the bigs, consider packaging one of our MIF (Theriot, Baker, or Fontenot) for some BP help (should be able to get a decent RP for one of them).

Now lets look at the offense. Ramierez is not producing the way he should, and it almost looks like there is something wrong with his swing, or his timing. IMHO, we should put him on the 15 day DL, send him to Iowa to work with Von Joshua for a little bit, and see if he can get his grove back. Jaramillo might have done something with his swing that is just not working, or it could be a timing issue related to the shoulder. In the mean time, platoon Fontenot/Baker at 3b. This will get both of them some at bats (Ramierez wasn't adding anything to the offense anyway, their offense can only be a plus at this point). Also, Soto has to be moved up in the lineup, so does Soriano. I like that Pinella has moved Lee out of the 3 spot, but honestly, he didn't go far enough IMHO. Here is what I would let the lineup look like until Ramierez got it back.

vs. LHP
1. Theriot
2. Castro
3. Byrd
4. Soriano
5. Lee
6. Soto
7. Nady
8. Baker
9. Pitcher

vs. RHP
1. Fukudome
2. Castro
3. Byrd
4. Soriano
5. Lee
6. Soto
7. Fontenot
8. Theriot
9. Pitcher (honestly, I would like to put Theriot in the 9 hole and bring the pitcher to the 8 hole... but that won't happen)

These are just my thoughts. Feel free to post your own (or comment on mine). I think we have the parts, we just need to "fine tune"...

gocubs2118
05-12-2010, 09:52 PM
I've read some pretty good ones in the Free Agents and Trades Ideas thread.

cowboydoc45
05-12-2010, 09:54 PM
I've read some pretty good ones in the Free Agents and Trades Ideas thread.

I'm not talking trades, i am talking about fixes that can be made in house (or at least in the system).

Jilly Bohnson
05-12-2010, 10:01 PM
This team will live and die with Lee and Ramirez, you can't pull either of them because the rest of the team is not good enough to win unless they get it going.

ReJo
05-12-2010, 10:39 PM
Ramirez should fire himself as his own hitting coach and maybe listen to Jaramillo

NORTH10
05-12-2010, 10:40 PM
Putting Ramirez on the bench is like putting Z in the bullpen....oh...wait...

But in all reality, Ramirez needs to play. I have all the confidence he will break out of this funk. He has to play in order to do that. These are the types of desperation moves that gets managers fired.

gocubs2118
05-12-2010, 10:41 PM
I don't get what you want to do with Ramirez. Do you want to put him on the DL just because he is struggling? I'm pretty sure you can't do that...

WOwolfOL
05-12-2010, 10:50 PM
This team will live and die with Lee and Ramirez, you can't pull either of them because the rest of the team is not good enough to win unless they get it going.

This is BS, IMO.

The problem is you have Lee and Aram in spots that frequently come up with RISP and they are flatout sucking balls.

Cubs regulars RISP:

Byrd 297
Fonty 350
Sori 368
Fuku 391
Soto 167
Theriot 429
Lee 242
Rami 194

If you line em up like:

Theriot
Fonty
Fuku
Sori
Byrd
Lee
Soto
Rami

You are bound to increase scoring by quite a bit.

Plain and simple: Lee and Rami are killing rallies left and right with the current line-up configuration, when they're both in of course.

Jilly Bohnson
05-12-2010, 10:58 PM
This is BS, IMO.

The problem is you have Lee and Aram in spots that frequently come up with RISP and they are flatout sucking balls.

Cubs regulars RISP:

Byrd 297
Fonty 350
Sori 368
Fuku 391
Soto 167
Theriot 429
Lee 242
Rami 194

If you line em up like:

Theriot
Fonty
Fuku
Sori
Byrd
Lee
Soto
Rami

You are bound to increase scoring by quite a bit.

Plain and simple: Lee and Rami are killing rallies left and right with the current line-up configuration, when they're both in of course.

Show me a lineup that looks good that doesn't have Lee and Ramirez hitting well. You can't. We will live and die with them, plain and simple. Replacing them with Fontenot and Baker doesn't really do much, and if they're not hitting and you bat them at the bottom of the order we're still not going to score any runs. The only way we will get a good offense is for them to get it giong.

WOwolfOL
05-12-2010, 11:10 PM
Get them out of the way of productive hitters and runs will increase. You have 5 straight guys hitting 300, runs will inevitably come.

RISP being a problem is a fallacy. Lee and Aram are making it look that way.

jiggin
05-12-2010, 11:32 PM
i wouldn't do a thing...get ramirez in with some hitting instruction and stay the course.

as DLee said the other day, sometimes mixing it up works and sometimes it doesn't...but he prefers staying put and being consistent with the same lineup. Sounds like he as a hitter feels that gives you the chance to hit out of the slump without having to adjust to new protection (or lack there of) and how pitcher approach you in that new spot + getting out of your slump just adds more issues to deal with in getting back in a grove. I can understand that...I can also understand that moving players around to much show ZERO confidence in them and could make it even more difficult for them to fight off any mental issues that are causing problems at the plate.

Cubs only 5.5 games out even after this horrible stretch where everyone is freaking out. Its may 12th...no time to panic.

Jilly Bohnson
05-12-2010, 11:40 PM
Get them out of the way of productive hitters and runs will increase. You have 5 straight guys hitting 300, runs will inevitably come.

RISP being a problem is a fallacy. Lee and Aram are making it look that way.

They're all going to come down though, just like Ramirez and Lee are going to come up. And you're missing the point, this team WILL suck unless they get it going, there is not any way around that.

Milnertime
05-13-2010, 02:34 AM
Here's Aramis' pitch f/x data for 2008 vs. 2010.

2008:


Type Count Sel Strike Swing Whiff Foul In Play
FA 1548 60.8% 61.0% 45.1% 5.8% 21.3% 18.0%
SL 475 18.7% 59.2% 47.2% 13.5% 17.3% 16.4%
CH 248 9.7% 66.1% 54.0% 14.1% 22.2% 17.7%
CU 211 8.3% 63.0% 46.9% 12.8% 13.7% 20.4%
FC 32 1.3% 81.3% 62.5% 18.8% 15.6% 28.1%
FF 12 0.5% 66.7% 58.3% 16.7% 25.0% 16.7%
SI 10 0.4% 80.0% 70.0% 10.0% 20.0% 40.0%
FS 8 0.3% 62.5% 62.5% 12.5% 12.5% 37.5%
FT 1 0.0% 0.0% 0.0% 0.0% 0.0% 0.0%

2010:


Type Count Sel Strike Swing Whiff Foul In Play
FF 235 40.9% 63.4% 45.5% 9.8% 21.7% 14.0%
SL 77 13.4% 58.4% 49.4% 19.5% 18.2% 11.7%
CH 75 13.0% 65.3% 57.3% 17.3% 21.3% 18.7%
CU 51 8.9% 43.1% 37.3% 11.8% 7.8% 17.6%
FC 48 8.3% 66.7% 56.3% 12.5% 22.9% 20.8%
FT 48 8.3% 72.9% 47.9% 2.1% 27.1% 18.8%
SI 32 5.6% 65.6% 53.1% 6.3% 9.4% 37.5%
FA 5 0.9% 40.0% 40.0% 0.0% 40.0% 0.0%
FS 3 0.5% 0.0% 0.0% 0.0% 0.0% 0.0%
FO 1 0.2% 0.0% 0.0% 0.0% 0.0% 0.0%


His problem is his whiff rate, which most of us already knew. That screams bat speed to me. Maybe he's mechanically not right right now, or maybe he just not seeing the ball well.

I think he can come out of it, but the question is how long that's going to take. His whiff rate has been progressively getting better on fastballs, at least. I'd like to think that means he's close to clicking in again and going on a tear.

Diehdcubsfan2
05-13-2010, 03:26 AM
Yeah I would not do a single thing. I actually like this team a lot. On paper they are god-like; On the field they are inconsistent. Which will give first. Their best hitters are struggling, how long can that last. Lee seems to be hitting better. Ram still is struggling, there was a point where I still wanted him hitting 4th, but just recently that changed. Right now, Byrd, Soto, Sor should be ahead. He will find his groove again, why wont he. He barley played last season, barley played in ST, when his timing is back, he will be fine. With Lee and Ram hitting like they should, this team will compete like it should. Even if the three aforementioned players regress a little. I just pray they start hitting really soon. Also lets hope the rotation stays consistent and lets get Z out of the pen; which has looked better.

I really want to panic, like a lot, but this team has way to much talent to panic. Its still early on this season.

zambo4president
05-13-2010, 03:33 AM
Here's Aramis' pitch f/x data for 2008 vs. 2010.

2008:


Type Count Sel Strike Swing Whiff Foul In Play
FA 1548 60.8% 61.0% 45.1% 5.8% 21.3% 18.0%
SL 475 18.7% 59.2% 47.2% 13.5% 17.3% 16.4%
CH 248 9.7% 66.1% 54.0% 14.1% 22.2% 17.7%
CU 211 8.3% 63.0% 46.9% 12.8% 13.7% 20.4%
FC 32 1.3% 81.3% 62.5% 18.8% 15.6% 28.1%
FF 12 0.5% 66.7% 58.3% 16.7% 25.0% 16.7%
SI 10 0.4% 80.0% 70.0% 10.0% 20.0% 40.0%
FS 8 0.3% 62.5% 62.5% 12.5% 12.5% 37.5%
FT 1 0.0% 0.0% 0.0% 0.0% 0.0% 0.0%

2010:


Type Count Sel Strike Swing Whiff Foul In Play
FF 235 40.9% 63.4% 45.5% 9.8% 21.7% 14.0%
SL 77 13.4% 58.4% 49.4% 19.5% 18.2% 11.7%
CH 75 13.0% 65.3% 57.3% 17.3% 21.3% 18.7%
CU 51 8.9% 43.1% 37.3% 11.8% 7.8% 17.6%
FC 48 8.3% 66.7% 56.3% 12.5% 22.9% 20.8%
FT 48 8.3% 72.9% 47.9% 2.1% 27.1% 18.8%
SI 32 5.6% 65.6% 53.1% 6.3% 9.4% 37.5%
FA 5 0.9% 40.0% 40.0% 0.0% 40.0% 0.0%
FS 3 0.5% 0.0% 0.0% 0.0% 0.0% 0.0%
FO 1 0.2% 0.0% 0.0% 0.0% 0.0% 0.0%


His problem is his whiff rate, which most of us already knew. That screams bat speed to me. Maybe he's mechanically not right right now, or maybe he just not seeing the ball well.

I think he can come out of it, but the question is how long that's going to take. His whiff rate has been progressively getting better on fastballs, at least. I'd like to think that means he's close to clicking in again and going on a tear.

Good find, I had no idea I hardly ever get to see them on TV out here. That's a pretty substantial increase on the whiff's. Rami's always been streaky though, he's off to a really frustrating start but just wait till he's back, the team lives off Lee and Rami we just need a year of consistency from them. We have our role players stepping up, but not our premium guys :laugh2: Would it be the Cubs otherwise?

BUD Bleachers
05-13-2010, 08:38 AM
I saw the thread title about "radical" ideas in trying to "fix" this team, yet the lead post is just about "fine tuning."

Maybe we were supposed to present the radical ideas.

I don't have anything radical, expect maybe:

1.) Fire Lou

2.) Lock the fans out of games so that they won't have to watch this team play. It's looking like 2009, only worse; we're now healthy.

3.) Re-dislocate Aramis Ramirez's shoulder; he hits better with one arm.

4.) Let Koyie Hill catch every honorary first pitch before every game.

5.) Lou should let guys draw numbers out of a hat each day for batting position in the lineup. It would be nice to see Randy Wells lead off for a change.

6.) Give Gorzelanny a laxative; the guy always looked backed-up out there.

7.) Tell Derrek Lee that this is a contract year, so maybe he should start...

8.) Switch the uniforms on Berg, Russel, and Grabow; nobody really would care and they'd probably pitch better in thinking they were someone else.

9.) Let Rudy Jaramillo actually hit to show the team how it's done.

10.) No more bobblehead doll promotions. Ryan Theriot bobblehead? There's one for your desk. You can throw it around the office. Twist it. Bend it. Use it as a stress reliever. Kick it. Run it through the paper shredder. Step the shat out of it. Use it as a cubical football. No worries...it won't break...it's always...SCRAPPY!

poodski
05-13-2010, 09:40 AM
His problem is his whiff rate, which most of us already knew. That screams bat speed to me. Maybe he's mechanically not right right now, or maybe he just not seeing the ball well.

I think he can come out of it, but the question is how long that's going to take. His whiff rate has been progressively getting better on fastballs, at least. I'd like to think that means he's close to clicking in again and going on a tear.

To me there isnt a doubt its bat speed. Arent they supposed to be measuring that now somewhere? I remember reading about it on FG a while back.

BDawk4Prez
05-13-2010, 10:13 AM
I saw the thread title about "radical" ideas in trying to "fix" this team, yet the lead post is just about "fine tuning."

Maybe we were supposed to present the radical ideas.

I don't have anything radical, expect maybe:

1.) Fire Lou

2.) Lock the fans out of games so that they won't have to watch this team play. It's looking like 2009, only worse; we're now healthy.

3.) Re-dislocate Aramis Ramirez's shoulder; he hits better with one arm.

4.) Let Koyie Hill catch every honorary first pitch before every game.

5.) Lou should let guys draw numbers out of a hat each day for batting position in the lineup. It would be nice to see Randy Wells lead off for a change.

6.) Give Gorzelanny a laxative; the guy always looked backed-up out there.

7.) Tell Derrek Lee that this is a contract year, so maybe he should start...

8.) Switch the uniforms on Berg, Russel, and Grabow; nobody really would care and they'd probably pitch better in thinking they were someone else.

9.) Let Rudy Jaramillo actually hit to show the team how it's done.

10.) No more bobblehead doll promotions. Ryan Theriot bobblehead? There's one for your desk. You can throw it around the office. Twist it. Bend it. Use it as a stress reliever. Kick it. Run it through the paper shredder. Step the shat out of it. Use it as a cubical football. No worries...it won't break...it's always...SCRAPPY!

I would bring in Neifi and give him ARams number. If Aram doesn't turn it on, send it Neifi to light a fire under him.

windycityD
05-13-2010, 11:23 AM
I don't get what you want to do with Ramirez. Do you want to put him on the DL just because he is struggling? I'm pretty sure you can't do that...

Aaron Miles anyone? Seriously, the guy last year was not that hurt.

A Ram has had DL time aplenty in the past. No, I'm not saying wink wink put him on the DL, not at all. I also wont be at all surprised if he does get very hot, then lands on the 15 day DL. That's kind of how it's going for him so far.

jiggin
05-13-2010, 01:02 PM
Here's Aramis' pitch f/x data for 2008 vs. 2010.

2008:


Type Count Sel Strike Swing Whiff Foul In Play
FA 1548 60.8% 61.0% 45.1% 5.8% 21.3% 18.0%
SL 475 18.7% 59.2% 47.2% 13.5% 17.3% 16.4%
CH 248 9.7% 66.1% 54.0% 14.1% 22.2% 17.7%
CU 211 8.3% 63.0% 46.9% 12.8% 13.7% 20.4%
FC 32 1.3% 81.3% 62.5% 18.8% 15.6% 28.1%
FF 12 0.5% 66.7% 58.3% 16.7% 25.0% 16.7%
SI 10 0.4% 80.0% 70.0% 10.0% 20.0% 40.0%
FS 8 0.3% 62.5% 62.5% 12.5% 12.5% 37.5%
FT 1 0.0% 0.0% 0.0% 0.0% 0.0% 0.0%

2010:


Type Count Sel Strike Swing Whiff Foul In Play
FF 235 40.9% 63.4% 45.5% 9.8% 21.7% 14.0%
SL 77 13.4% 58.4% 49.4% 19.5% 18.2% 11.7%
CH 75 13.0% 65.3% 57.3% 17.3% 21.3% 18.7%
CU 51 8.9% 43.1% 37.3% 11.8% 7.8% 17.6%
FC 48 8.3% 66.7% 56.3% 12.5% 22.9% 20.8%
FT 48 8.3% 72.9% 47.9% 2.1% 27.1% 18.8%
SI 32 5.6% 65.6% 53.1% 6.3% 9.4% 37.5%
FA 5 0.9% 40.0% 40.0% 0.0% 40.0% 0.0%
FS 3 0.5% 0.0% 0.0% 0.0% 0.0% 0.0%
FO 1 0.2% 0.0% 0.0% 0.0% 0.0% 0.0%


His problem is his whiff rate, which most of us already knew. That screams bat speed to me. Maybe he's mechanically not right right now, or maybe he just not seeing the ball well.

I think he can come out of it, but the question is how long that's going to take. His whiff rate has been progressively getting better on fastballs, at least. I'd like to think that means he's close to clicking in again and going on a tear.

what about 2009? what about 2007? you just found a year in his career that worked well with your comparison and just used that?

you could work for espn with that move...

cowboydoc45
05-13-2010, 01:29 PM
This team will live and die with Lee and Ramirez, you can't pull either of them because the rest of the team is not good enough to win unless they get it going.

They apparently aren't good enough to win with them. They aren't producing. They might turn it around, they might not.


I don't get what you want to do with Ramirez. Do you want to put him on the DL just because he is struggling? I'm pretty sure you can't do that...

Use a "mental" issue, and let him go down and hit. It wouldn't hurt, we aren't getting production from him right now, and it might just right the ship... never know, but yes, we would have to "fabricate a reason".


i wouldn't do a thing...get ramirez in with some hitting instruction and stay the course.

as DLee said the other day, sometimes mixing it up works and sometimes it doesn't...but he prefers staying put and being consistent with the same lineup. Sounds like he as a hitter feels that gives you the chance to hit out of the slump without having to adjust to new protection (or lack there of) and how pitcher approach you in that new spot + getting out of your slump just adds more issues to deal with in getting back in a grove. I can understand that...I can also understand that moving players around to much show ZERO confidence in them and could make it even more difficult for them to fight off any mental issues that are causing problems at the plate.

Cubs only 5.5 games out even after this horrible stretch where everyone is freaking out. Its may 12th...no time to panic.

I'm not panicing. In fact, before I posted I looked at 2008. We had 20+ losses in June/July but an incredibly hot April/May. Maybe were going in reverse this time around?


I saw the thread title about "radical" ideas in trying to "fix" this team, yet the lead post is just about "fine tuning."

Maybe we were supposed to present the radical ideas.



Sorry, when I was thinking of things, it seemed a little more "radical", but as I typed it out they came out as tinkers more than anything else. I think the big move was the lineup, which would still need to be redone once Lee/Ramierez come back to speed.

weneedpitching
05-13-2010, 02:33 PM
Good find, I had no idea I hardly ever get to see them on TV out here. That's a pretty substantial increase on the whiff's. Rami's always been streaky though, he's off to a really frustrating start but just wait till he's back, the team lives off Lee and Rami we just need a year of consistency from them. We have our role players stepping up, but not our premium guys :laugh2: Would it be the Cubs otherwise?

There is no way in the world Aramis ends the season with a .179 BABIP either...although his LD% is way down at the moment. Still, he's got to get better.

Lee's .260 BABIP is pretty low too, considering he usually averages around .320 or so on balls in play in his career.

Milnertime
05-13-2010, 02:37 PM
what about 2009? what about 2007? you just found a year in his career that worked well with your comparison and just used that?

you could work for espn with that move...
Well, if you want to go back in time and invent and implement pitch f/x a year earlier, I could include 2007. Then you wouldn't look like such an *******. It would be a win-win.

And 2009 was an injury plagued season. 2008 is the only "normal" Ramirez that there is data for.

windycityD
05-13-2010, 02:39 PM
There is no way in the world Aramis ends the season with a .179 BABIP either...although his LD% is way down at the moment. Still, he's got to get better.

Lee's .260 BABIP is pretty low too, considering he usually averages around .320 or so on balls in play in his career.

All I know is this: a "down" year from A Ram- one he's never really had here as a Cub- makes that 2010 opt out clause look rather unlikely in the face of big money in 2011 and possibly even 2012. That could play out to our advantage, b/c I'm of the opinion that he wont ever be this bad/ off during the duration of those years and his current/ potential contract.

Lee is coming around. A Ram needs to get hot asap if this season has any chance of going anywhere.

THE_G.O.A.T.
05-13-2010, 02:50 PM
I don't get what you want to do with Ramirez. Do you want to put him on the DL just because he is struggling? I'm pretty sure you can't do that...

It actually happens all the time in baseball. GM's and coaches will create an injury to give a player some time off to clear his head. That being said, they should definitely not do that with Ramirez. He doesn't need time off to clear his head, he needs more AB's to get his timing back.

Also, if anyone seriously wants to put Jeff Baker at 3rd you are stupid. That is not a good option. Besides what do the Cubs have to lose by letting Ramirez play? They are not going to catch the Cardinals this year.

I hope Ramirez starts crushing the ball in June. That way we can trade him before the trade deadline for a couple top-end prospects and give Vitters a shot. Its time for a youth movement. This team is a year too old.

man man
05-13-2010, 04:40 PM
It actually happens all the time in baseball. GM's and coaches will create an injury to give a player some time off to clear his head. That being said, they should definitely not do that with Ramirez. He doesn't need time off to clear his head, he needs more AB's to get his timing back.

Also, if anyone seriously wants to put Jeff Baker at 3rd you are stupid. That is not a good option. Besides what do the Cubs have to lose by letting Ramirez play? They are not going to catch the Cardinals this year.

I hope Ramirez starts crushing the ball in June. That way we can trade him before the trade deadline for a couple top-end prospects and give Vitters a shot. Its time for a youth movement. This team is a year too old.

Baker at third = :puke:

cowboydoc45
05-13-2010, 04:45 PM
Baker at third = :puke:

still better than some of the options we tried last year when Ramierez was down for a long time.

Jilly Bohnson
05-13-2010, 05:08 PM
They apparently aren't good enough to win with them. They aren't producing. They might turn it around, they might not.



Use a "mental" issue, and let him go down and hit. It wouldn't hurt, we aren't getting production from him right now, and it might just right the ship... never know, but yes, we would have to "fabricate a reason".



I'm not panicing. In fact, before I posted I looked at 2008. We had 20+ losses in June/July but an incredibly hot April/May. Maybe were going in reverse this time around?



Sorry, when I was thinking of things, it seemed a little more "radical", but as I typed it out they came out as tinkers more than anything else. I think the big move was the lineup, which would still need to be redone once Lee/Ramierez come back to speed.

And the only way we win anything is if they do. Does no one get that? I'm one of the most optimistic people on this board, and the chances of us winning the division without Lee and Ramirez both rebounding are exactly equal to the odds of the enitre Cardinals team dying in a tragic plane crash. WE WILL NOT WIN THIS DIVISION UNLESS LEE AND RAMIREZ HIT NEAR THEIR EXPECTED LEVELS.

redwhitenblue
05-13-2010, 05:08 PM
Radical idea #1, tell Lee and Ramirez to sit the **** down with Jaramillo and stop this "I'm my own hitting coach" ****.

jiggin
05-13-2010, 06:37 PM
Radical idea #1, tell Lee and Ramirez to sit the **** down with Jaramillo and stop this "I'm my own hitting coach" ****.

I second that...

BDawk4Prez
05-13-2010, 07:11 PM
Thirded

NORTH10
05-13-2010, 08:53 PM
Lee and Ramirez are right in a sense...they are their own hitting coach. They have played at a high level for years. You can't "dramatically" change a swing because 1) it is during a season, you cant be focusing on mechanics at the plate and 2) they've gotten the job done before. You can tinker with some minor timing mechanisms and some philosophies, but that is about it. And from what I hear, that is what they are working with. They don't need drastic changes by Jaramillo to get back going and on track.

redwhitenblue
05-13-2010, 08:56 PM
Lee and Ramirez are right in a sense...they are their own hitting coach. They have played at a high level for years. You can't "dramatically" change a swing because 1) it is during a season, you cant be focusing on mechanics at the plate and 2) they've gotten the job done before. You can tinker with some minor timing mechanisms and some philosophies, but that is about it. And from what I hear, that is what they are working with. They don't need drastic changes by Jaramillo to get back going and on track.
And hitting coaches only do drastic changes. They don't have an straight up view of a person's AB's without bias and can notice things to tinker with as well?

Who the hell is talking about Jaramillo retooling their entire swings? It's pretty damn obvious that Aramis isn't getting his front foot down in time and is late a lot because of that. It doesn't even take a ML hitting coach to see that. But apparently Aramis doesn't have a good grasp of many drills to fix that problem.

I bet someone on the Cubs coaching staff does. Someone who gets paid to tinker with guys stances.

jiggin
05-14-2010, 01:36 AM
Lee and Ramirez are right in a sense...they are their own hitting coach. They have played at a high level for years. You can't "dramatically" change a swing because 1) it is during a season, you cant be focusing on mechanics at the plate and 2) they've gotten the job done before. You can tinker with some minor timing mechanisms and some philosophies, but that is about it. And from what I hear, that is what they are working with. They don't need drastic changes by Jaramillo to get back going and on track.

I can understand that thinking but at some point, especially for Ramirez, you have to be a bigger man and say, "I might needs someone to help me with this one?" With modern technology and outside perspectives there should be no reason a veteran player should handle a MAJOR slump alone. Only other issue could be between the ears, and if that's the case there are professionals (sport psych) that can handle that too and are on the cubs payroll.

be a man, fess up if you need help.

I guess they could have already isolated the problem and he is just having problems sticking with the adjustment...but for goodness sake, double up on the BP time. who knows, maybe he is...

Diehardcub
05-14-2010, 01:46 AM
radical idea #1, tell lee and ramirez to sit the **** down with jaramillo and stop this "i'm my own hitting coach" ****.



x4

Milnertime
05-14-2010, 03:15 AM
I can understand that thinking but at some point, especially for Ramirez, you have to be a bigger man and say, "I might needs someone to help me with this one?" With modern technology and outside perspectives there should be no reason a veteran player should handle a MAJOR slump alone. Only other issue could be between the ears, and if that's the case there are professionals (sport psych) that can handle that too and are on the cubs payroll.

be a man, fess up if you need help.

I guess they could have already isolated the problem and he is just having problems sticking with the adjustment...but for goodness sake, double up on the BP time. who knows, maybe he is...

Kind of like if you say something stupid and then get called out about it, you should fess up that you were wrong. Be a man. Fess up.

Diehardcub
05-14-2010, 06:23 AM
This team will live and die with Lee and Ramirez, you can't pull either of them because the rest of the team is not good enough to win unless they get it going.

Yep, that's what it comes down to period. Those two must swing the bat. If they do, we'll score runs fairly consistently. If not, we continue to struggle no matter how well everyone else is hitting. The inconsistent offense is not hard to figure out at all.

Diehardcub
05-14-2010, 06:34 AM
And hitting coaches only do drastic changes. They don't have an straight up view of a person's AB's without bias and can notice things to tinker with as well?

Who the hell is talking about Jaramillo retooling their entire swings? It's pretty damn obvious that Aramis isn't getting his front foot down in time and is late a lot because of that. It doesn't even take a ML hitting coach to see that. But apparently Aramis doesn't have a good grasp of many drills to fix that problem.

I bet someone on the Cubs coaching staff does. Someone who gets paid to tinker with guys stances.

Why do so many people think a hitting coach is going to completely change a successful major leaguer's swing? I have never understood that. They work on little tweaks here and there to get their swings back.

KOENIG
05-14-2010, 06:37 AM
Trade Lee. He's a free agent after the season any way. Get something for him while you can. The best the Cubs will do is offer him arbitration. He's getting older, his skills are declining and his salary is high. Why keep him? Also trade Ramirez and Zambrano. They're not producing for the Cubs this year. Other teams would be interested.

WOwolfOL
05-14-2010, 11:55 AM
Lee had no problem working with Von Joshua, so I think it's pretty disrespectful for him to say he doesn't need help. Joshua needs to go to Chicago for a few days because he gets the absolute best out of Lee.

NORTH10
05-14-2010, 12:05 PM
And hitting coaches only do drastic changes. They don't have an straight up view of a person's AB's without bias and can notice things to tinker with as well?

Who the hell is talking about Jaramillo retooling their entire swings? It's pretty damn obvious that Aramis isn't getting his front foot down in time and is late a lot because of that. It doesn't even take a ML hitting coach to see that. But apparently Aramis doesn't have a good grasp of many drills to fix that problem.

I bet someone on the Cubs coaching staff does. Someone who gets paid to tinker with guys stances.

I'm sure that Jaramillo has told Aramis about his front foot. Jaramillo is known for his 5 step timing philosophy. It's not like Jaramillo completely ignores these players. I'm simply stating that some people are expecting a massive change in Aramis' swing, and that just wont happen. The only way Aramis breaks out of this funk is through himself.

jiggin
05-14-2010, 12:10 PM
Kind of like if you say something stupid and then get called out about it, you should fess up that you were wrong. Be a man. Fess up.

what are u talking about? oh...I see, trying to pick a fight.

nice

I admit when I am wrong about facts...but you can't prove someones opinion wrong ...it's an opinion. duh. lol
you can provide facts to try and sway their opinion...
wow...having to explain what an opinion is to people cracks me up.

case in point, you aren't going to change my opinion of you even if u admit it was a dick move to post that comment and derail the discussion.

Iffybiz
05-14-2010, 12:27 PM
Here's a "radical" idea that I don't think has been mentioned. Trading Soriano isn't really possible. Since Lee is likely gone next year or maybe this year if they trade him, why not put Soriano at first?
I think based on his infielder experience he'd be at least passable defensively, would be less likely to hurt himself and might keep his bat going further down the contract.
Putting Colvin in Left and keeping Byrd and Fukedome would give the team the best defensive outfield on a Cubs team in a long long time.
Aramis would likely have to stay at least another year to give Vitters a chance to develop, if he ever does.
Speaking of Vitters, I know he's struggled defensively. Is it a correctable problem (footwork, positioning etc.) or does he just have bad hands or a poor arm?

cowboydoc45
05-14-2010, 12:35 PM
Here's a "radical" idea that I don't think has been mentioned. Trading Soriano isn't really possible. Since Lee is likely gone next year or maybe this year if they trade him, why not put Soriano at first?
I think based on his infielder experience he'd be at least passable defensively, would be less likely to hurt himself and might keep his bat going further down the contract.
Putting Colvin in Left and keeping Byrd and Fukedome would give the team the best defensive outfield on a Cubs team in a long long time.
Aramis would likely have to stay at least another year to give Vitters a chance to develop, if he ever does.
Speaking of Vitters, I know he's struggled defensively. Is it a correctable problem (footwork, positioning etc.) or does he just have bad hands or a poor arm?

I think a long time ago, a couple of people toyed with the idea of Soriano at 1B, not a horrible idea, but not real likely.

ggross
05-14-2010, 12:58 PM
...Putting Colvin in Left and keeping Byrd and Fukedome would give the team the best defensive outfield on a Cubs team in a long long time.
Aramis would likely have to stay at least another year to give Vitters a chance to develop, if he ever does.
Speaking of Vitters, I know he's struggled defensively. Is it a correctable problem (footwork, positioning etc.) or does he just have bad hands or a poor arm?

To me he just doesn't look comfortable at all at playing 3rd and most of the balls play him (instead of the other way around). His arm is average or a little better than avg - maybe. I remember how horrible I thought Ramirez looked at 3rd when he was with the Pirates and after watching him on the Cubs for awhile, Ron Santo said he could definitely be an outstanding 3rd baseman. Santo has said the same things about Vitters, so I am very encouraged by that... just don't see what Santo is seeing in him.

Canterbury
05-14-2010, 01:26 PM
If Tyler Colvin is going to stay in the big leagues, I really think the Cubs have to make room for him by trading Fuku (despite as much as I love Fuku). You won't be able to trade away Soriano and Byrd's contract has been very efficient so far. Tyler Colvin needs playing time, and since Lou will never send him down, he'll need it here.

The aforementioned temporary Soriano to First Base would solve Tyler's problem (and the future vacancy of D Lee), but I doubt Sori could ever pull it off or that management would attempt to try.


Santo has said the same things about Vitters, so I am very encouraged by that... just don't see what Santo is seeing in him.

He could just be a homer.

Jilly Bohnson
05-14-2010, 01:46 PM
Here's a "radical" idea that I don't think has been mentioned. Trading Soriano isn't really possible. Since Lee is likely gone next year or maybe this year if they trade him, why not put Soriano at first?
I think based on his infielder experience he'd be at least passable defensively, would be less likely to hurt himself and might keep his bat going further down the contract.
Putting Colvin in Left and keeping Byrd and Fukedome would give the team the best defensive outfield on a Cubs team in a long long time.
Aramis would likely have to stay at least another year to give Vitters a chance to develop, if he ever does.
Speaking of Vitters, I know he's struggled defensively. Is it a correctable problem (footwork, positioning etc.) or does he just have bad hands or a poor arm?


To me he just doesn't look comfortable at all at playing 3rd and most of the balls play him (instead of the other way around). His arm is average or a little better than avg - maybe. I remember how horrible I thought Ramirez looked at 3rd when he was with the Pirates and after watching him on the Cubs for awhile, Ron Santo said he could definitely be an outstanding 3rd baseman. Santo has said the same things about Vitters, so I am very encouraged by that... just don't see what Santo is seeing in him.

My understanding is that it's poor footwork and sometimes lack of concentration. The footwork is definitely fixable, the concentration is an experience/effort thing.

Milnertime
05-14-2010, 02:27 PM
what are u talking about? oh...I see, trying to pick a fight.

nice

I admit when I am wrong about facts...but you can't prove someones opinion wrong ...it's an opinion. duh. lol
you can provide facts to try and sway their opinion...
wow...having to explain what an opinion is to people cracks me up.

case in point, you aren't going to change my opinion of you even if u admit it was a dick move to post that comment and derail the discussion.
No. You're wrong. Opinions can be very wrong. There are millions of examples of this.

And I'm the one trying to pick a fight, eh? What do you call your response to me earlier in this thread? I would call it stupid, for one, and ill informed, for another.

You've been acting like a real douche, lately, and I don't really know why. You should stop hiding behind the "opinion" argument and make a real stance on an issue.

Saying that it's your opinion doesn't make what you say infallible.

jiggin
05-14-2010, 02:30 PM
No. You're wrong. Opinions can be very wrong. There are millions of examples of this.

And I'm the one trying to pick a fight, eh? What do you call your response to me earlier in this thread? I would call it stupid, for one, and ill informed, for another.

You've been acting like a real douche, lately, and I don't really know why. You should stop hiding behind the "opinion" argument and make a real stance on an issue.

Saying that it's your opinion doesn't make what you say infallible.

never said it was infallible, but its still my opinion and I have every right to have that opinion. I shouldn't be subject to personal attacks and being called stupid just because my opinion differs from another persons. That is the point. In a communist society, even a dictatorship people tell others what to think and what opinion to have. I don't live in that world, I live in a world that each person can have their own thoughts independent of each other and that everyone is equal...regardless of the opinions they have and share.

Guess you subscribe to the daily worker...more power to you..enjoy that.

redwhitenblue
05-14-2010, 03:40 PM
I shouldn't be subject to personal attacks and being called stupid just because my opinion differs from another persons.An opinion is pretty much the only thing that can be attacked. Factually sound arguments can't be attacked, so the only incorrect logic that can be attacked are opinions. If you choose to take someone attacking your opinion as a personal attack, then that's a problem you and your therapist need to take up.

Milnertime
05-14-2010, 04:22 PM
never said it was infallible, but its still my opinion and I have every right to have that opinion. I shouldn't be subject to personal attacks and being called stupid just because my opinion differs from another persons. That is the point. In a communist society, even a dictatorship people tell others what to think and what opinion to have. I don't live in that world, I live in a world that each person can have their own thoughts independent of each other and that everyone is equal...regardless of the opinions they have and share.

Guess you subscribe to the daily worker...more power to you..enjoy that.
Again, I'll refer you to the post that started this whole thing.

You are becoming a pro at pot and kettle confrontations.

4cubs
05-14-2010, 07:18 PM
And the only way we win anything is if they do. Does no one get that? I'm one of the most optimistic people on this board, and the chances of us winning the division without Lee and Ramirez both rebounding are exactly equal to the odds of the enitre Cardinals team dying in a tragic plane crash. WE WILL NOT WIN THIS DIVISION UNLESS LEE AND RAMIREZ HIT NEAR THEIR EXPECTED LEVELS.What does this say about next year when both Lee and Ramirez are possibly gone?

Should we Cub's fans throw in the towel now for 2011?

Tehjosha
05-14-2010, 07:27 PM
What does this say about next year when both Lee and Ramirez are possibly gone?

Should we Cub's fans throw in the towel now for 2011?

Throw in the towel? I wouldn't say throw in the towel. But to expect anything above mediocrity would be foolish.

This team goes as Ramirez and Lee go, which has been extremely evident thus far this season.

There are no viable replacements for either of them at this juncture. It would have to be done outside the organization. That isn't guaranteed. Baker, Fontenot, Hoffpauir (although I have seen him play and know what he can do), Tracy, and the like, will not cut it. Vitters is not ready, either.

4cubs
05-14-2010, 07:38 PM
Throw in the towel? I wouldn't say throw in the towel. But to expect anything above mediocrity would be foolish.

This team goes as Ramirez and Lee go, which has been extremely evident thus far this season.

There are no viable replacements for either of them at this juncture. It would have to be done outside the organization. That isn't guaranteed. Baker, Fontenot, Hoffpauir (although I have seen him play and know what he can do), Tracy, and the like, will not cut it. Vitters is not ready, either.I don't mind the possible move of Soriano to 1st and Colvin as a starter in the OF.

That leaves 3rd base. Vitters may not be ready (and I'm not sure he will eventually play 3rd anyhow). Possibly a free agent?

Tehjosha
05-14-2010, 07:54 PM
I don't mind the possible move of Soriano to 1st and Colvin as a starter in the OF.

That leaves 3rd base. Vitters may not be ready (and I'm not sure he will eventually play 3rd anyhow). Possibly a free agent?

Without really looking, I found the following list. Don't know how accurate it is.


Garrett Atkins (31) - $8.5MM club option with a $500K buyout
Adrian Beltre (32) - $5MM player option with a $1MM buyout.
Wilson Betemit (29)
Geoff Blum (38) - $1.65MM mutual option
Jorge Cantu (29)
Eric Chavez (33) - $12.5MM club option with a $3MM buyout
Craig Counsell (40)
Pedro Feliz (36)
Jerry Hairston Jr. (35)
Bill Hall (31) - $9.25MM club option with a $500K buyout
Wes Helms (35)
Brandon Inge (34)
Mike Lowell (37)
Melvin Mora (39)
Jhonny Peralta (29) - $7MM club option with a $250K buyout
Robb Quinlan (34)
Aramis Ramirez (33) - $14.6MM player option
Miguel Tejada (37)
Juan Uribe (31)
Ramon Vazquez (34)
Ty Wigginton (33)

CubbieSteve
05-14-2010, 08:07 PM
I don't mind the possible move of Soriano to 1st and Colvin as a starter in the OF.

That leaves 3rd base. Vitters may not be ready (and I'm not sure he will eventually play 3rd anyhow). Possibly a free agent?

Soriano to 1st? He'd hop everytime he caught the ball, it wouldn't work.

semperfi
05-14-2010, 08:22 PM
Soriano to 1st? He'd hop everytime he caught the ball, it wouldn't work.

:laugh: oh man that's be funny. "It's a bang bang play... oh no Soriano hopped and came off the bag. He's safe at first."

KOENIG
05-14-2010, 09:50 PM
Does anyone else think this is ironic, or funny? The Cubs have one of the most financially successful organizations in the National League. Ownership gives their GM a generous budget for player salaries. The result? We're seeing it. Hendry needs to move the underachievers, or resign or get fired.

4cubs
05-15-2010, 11:47 PM
Soriano to 1st? He'd hop everytime he caught the ball, it wouldn't work.
He played an adventurous 2nd base I am told, but I don't know what the issues were.

At 1st he just needs to catch the throws, possibly dig some balls out of the dirt, and field some hits down the line?

Is this asking too much of him?

There are no brick walls to worry about (other than in foal territory). He doesn't have to judge the flight of the ball or deal with the wind much. Probably an easier position for him than LF I would think.

Jilly Bohnson
05-16-2010, 03:26 AM
What does this say about next year when both Lee and Ramirez are possibly gone?

Should we Cub's fans throw in the towel now for 2011?

So much can change that it doesn't say anything. I mean while not likely, it's not inconceivable that the Cubs could contend next year. Let's say Castro continues to produce, we use the money from Lee and Lilly leaving to sign Crawford, and we killed our farm to trade for Gonzalez. We're immediately a contending team again. Is that likely to happen? No. But it just goes to show it's very possible for a very quick turnaround for this team.

StrandedCub
05-16-2010, 04:13 AM
He played an adventurous 2nd base I am told, but I don't know what the issues were.

At 1st he just needs to catch the throws, possibly dig some balls out of the dirt, and field some hits down the line?

Is this asking too much of him?

There are no brick walls to worry about (other than in foal territory). He doesn't have to judge the flight of the ball or deal with the wind much. Probably an easier position for him than LF I would think.

I think we take DLee for granted... 1st base isn't a walk in the park but DLee makes it look like its easy. I couldn't see Soriano working out well at 1B. He is fine in LF, especially now that he has eliminated the hop... He seems pretty smooth out there now.

Soriano probably wouldn't make a lot of "errors" at 1B but he sure as hell wouldn't save bunches of errors the way DLee does.

4cubs
05-16-2010, 10:26 PM
I think we take DLee for granted... 1st base isn't a walk in the park but DLee makes it look like its easy. I couldn't see Soriano working out well at 1B. He is fine in LF, especially now that he has eliminated the hop... He seems pretty smooth out there now.

Soriano probably wouldn't make a lot of "errors" at 1B but he sure as hell wouldn't save bunches of errors the way DLee does.I don't disagree with what you said.

The Cubs would go from an excellent defensive 1B to an average (or maybe a little below average) one.

But since it would be difficult to trade Soriano (without eating a big chunk of salary), we are likely stuck with him.

If so, I think the loss in defense at 1B with Soriano would be made up for by the upgrade in defense in LF with Colvin. And... we save on Lee's salary. With the way Lee has been hitting, Colvin shouldn't be a downgrade offensively.

windycityD
05-17-2010, 06:24 PM
I don't disagree with what you said.

The Cubs would go from an excellent defensive 1B to an average (or maybe a little below average) one.

But since it would be difficult to trade Soriano (without eating a big chunk of salary), we are likely stuck with him.

If so, I think the loss in defense at 1B with Soriano would be made up for by the upgrade in defense in LF with Colvin. And... we save on Lee's salary. With the way Lee has been hitting, Colvin shouldn't be a downgrade offensively.

I would not bet on Colvin starting in LF next season. In 2012, maybe. It's totally possible that Soriano could be playing 1b on the *** end of his deal.

Between Lilly and Lee, right now, I would place my bets on Lilly being re-upped over D Lee- as long as Ted's arm and shoulder are fine throughout this season of course. That said, the free agent game changes completely if A Ram opts out after this season and/ or Zambrano agrees to a deal and is traded. So saying Lee is a goner is a bit premature imo. The other option is that Dunn is signed for 2-3 years and plays 1b, Lee walks.

4cubs
05-17-2010, 11:13 PM
I would not bet on Colvin starting in LF next season. In 2012, maybe. It's totally possible that Soriano could be playing 1b on the *** end of his deal.

Between Lilly and Lee, right now, I would place my bets on Lilly being re-upped over D Lee- as long as Ted's arm and shoulder are fine throughout this season of course. That said, the free agent game changes completely if A Ram opts out after this season and/ or Zambrano agrees to a deal and is traded. So saying Lee is a goner is a bit premature imo. The other option is that Dunn is signed for 2-3 years and plays 1b, Lee walks.I find it ironic that ARam is having a terrible season and no solid 3B alternative for the Cubs.

In the mean time ex-Cub castoff, Casey McGehee leads the Brewers with 8 HRs and is batting .311

windycityD
05-18-2010, 12:07 AM
I find it ironic that ARam is having a terrible season and no solid 3B alternative for the Cubs.

In the mean time ex-Cub castoff, Casey McGehee leads the Brewers with 8 HRs and is batting .311

IMO, Mike Fontenot and Vitters would be the 3b "platoon" in 2011 if A Ram walks. If Lee is not re-upped, say hello to Adam Dunn at 1b. He fits the left handed power bat we've supposedly been seeking & paying for for years now. And well, he's hit 40 HRs for several seasons, plus his career OPS and OBP are both very good.

McGehee has done a good job for the Brewers. Did we maybe take a flier on him too soon? Sure, possibly. Is he going to keep this up? Odds are, no, he wont.

Yagyu+
05-18-2010, 12:15 AM
Without really looking, I found the following list. Don't know how accurate it is.

If it came down to signing a free agent, Beltre. Though we probably couldn't give him the contract that he's after.

windycityD
05-18-2010, 12:25 AM
If it came down to signing a free agent, Beltre. Though we probably couldn't give him the contract that he's after.

Brandon Inge is a free agent after this season. His contract would also be ridiculous, but really, he's a better option if it came to throwing money at 3b. For the record, I'm not for throwing money there.

Yagyu+
05-18-2010, 02:35 AM
Brandon Inge is a free agent after this season. His contract would also be ridiculous, but really, he's a better option if it came to throwing money at 3b. For the record, I'm not for throwing money there.

Beltre's field value from 2006-09 is 17.8, -2.7, 11.1, 14.2 and he swings an above average bat.

Inge's field value from 2006-09 is 20.6, 10.4, 4.9, 6.7 and he swings a below average bat.

Unless I've missed something, Inge is a better option, why?

EDIT: Soriano has said that he's not comfortable with how quick the ball reaches him in the infield anymore. Shifting him to first base would be apocalyptic. Think of all the small things required of a first baseman over the course of a game. Colvin in left wouldn't come close to offsetting the hit that we'd take.