PDA

View Full Version : Stan Van Gundy Rips Chicago Bulls on How They Handled Vinny Situation



ko8e24
05-10-2010, 08:01 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/chicago/nba/news/story?id=5177793



ATLANTA -- Jeff Van Gundy isn't the only member of his family who thinks the Chicago Bulls handled the end of the Vinny Del Negro era poorly.

Orlando Magic coach Stan Van Gundy does not believe the recently fired Del Negro was given the proper backing from the Bulls front office, and Stan doesn't think Jeff will return to the coaching ranks next season for the Bulls or any other team.

"I was shocked by the coaching change," Van Gundy told ESPNChicago.com after the Magic's shootaround on Monday morning. "I thought Vinny did a great, great job developing the young guys, and I think it will be very hard for anyone to come in and do a better job than he did."

The Magic will try to complete a four-game sweep of the Atlanta Hawks on Monday night in their Eastern Conference semifinal series.

Jeff Van Gundy, working as an ESPN analyst, was critical of the Bulls' handling of Del Negro during a nationally televised broadcast several weeks ago, and his brother agreed.

"From midseason on, I don't think Vinny got much support from their organization," Stan said. "I didn't understand -- you never know the inner-workings, and so maybe there was some stuff behind the scenes -- but from a coaching perspective, Vinny did a very, very good job with that team.

"They gave up their two best wing scorers in [Ben] Gordon and [John] Salmons, and they were a great defensive team that struggled to score. I don't think that's shocking when you give up two guys like that. The front office makes the decision to make those trades [Gordon left via free agency], and then Vinny's the scapegoat for it. [It's a] hard thing to understand."

As for speculation that Jeff is a possible candidate for the Bulls opening, Stan was skeptical.

"I don't think he will coach again next season," he said. "I think there's other priorities in his life. I'd be surprised, in fact, I'd be very, very, surprised if he were back coaching next year."

When asked specifically if he thought his brother would listen if a team like the Bulls came calling, the Orlando coach went a step further.

"I don't even think he would have a willingness to interview," he said.

Van Gundy was complimentary about the Bulls' future led by All-Star point guard Derrick Rose, but he disagreed with the notion that the team had to focus on coaching candidates who had success with point guards in the past.

"I thought Vinny had great success with him," he said. "I thought he developed great and Vinny had great success with him, so if you want a guy who's had success with point guards I would think Vinny would be at the top of your list."

Is there a particular coaching candidate who Van Gundy thinks would be a better fit for the Bulls right now?

"Yeah," he said. "Vinny Del Negro."

Nick Friedell covers the Bulls for ESPNChicago.com.

D Roses Bulls
05-10-2010, 08:02 PM
its in the bulls forum, i was gonna put it on here but you beat me to it.

clutchski
05-10-2010, 08:05 PM
good read

RadiantShot
05-10-2010, 08:38 PM
He didn't really, "Rip" the Bulls for releasing Del Negro. He just thought it could have been handled better, and that there wasn't a real reason for firing Vinny.

Kakaroach
05-10-2010, 08:42 PM
I still think VDN got a raw deal. Lose Ben Gordon, lose John Salmons and Tyrus Thomas mid-season, Joakim Noah misses a ton of games late in the season, and they still made the playoffs. I didn't even mention that Rose was struggling with an injury early on too.

I got a lot of Bulls fans friends, and they hate VDN. But I dunno about this one...

RadiantShot
05-10-2010, 08:54 PM
I'm going to agree with Kakaroach. ;)

RipVW
05-10-2010, 09:14 PM
I still think VDN got a raw deal. Lose Ben Gordon, lose John Salmons and Tyrus Thomas mid-season, Joakim Noah misses a ton of games late in the season, and they still made the playoffs. I didn't even mention that Rose was struggling with an injury early on too.

I got a lot of Bulls fans friends, and they hate VDN. But I dunno about this one...


I'm going to agree with Kakaroach. ;)

This has been frequently discussed in the Bulls forums. Vinny isnt total garbage. He seemed to do an ok job between the end of games and the beginning of games. He also gave the young guys a chance to play and spent time coaching them. But during games, Vinny left a lot to be desired, especially in end of game situations, whether its play calling or managing timeouts. When you get in the playoffs, this can mean death. Its doubtful that he could have corrected this fast enough for it to not hurt the team down the road. And if you spend a lot of money on free agents, you dont want your season to come down to bad play calling and poor management of time outs.

And when you look at the whole picture, Vinny was probably not the most qualified to get the job to begin with but the Bulls gave him that chance. He did a decent (but not great) job but the Bulls have arrived at a place where theyre looking to take the next step and so it was time for the Bulls to look in a different direction and Vinny has situated himself nicely to coach some young team being better off from the experience.

One thing also, Vinny is given a lot of credit for the development of Rose and Noah. Who is to say that their improvement isnt more from their own drive than from being around Vinny? Its probably fair to say that its a combination but its not exactly like Noah and Rose lack desire/motivation.

Draco
05-10-2010, 10:20 PM
Stan's not in a position to judge whether Vinny lived up to the organizations expectations.

Shammyguy3
05-10-2010, 10:35 PM
Stan's not in a position to judge whether Vinny lived up to the organizations expectations.

This. Vinny is a horrid coach. He's a great guy that should've been treated better by the Bulls front office...but the firing of him is justified. The Bulls made the playoffs not because of Vinny, but because of Rose and Noah. If anything, to say that Del Negro had a hand in helping Rose and his game is somewhat nonsense to me. If Rose had a competent coach who knew how to run a team and draw up plays during the games, He and the other players could have meshed better together and played to each others strengths more often. Vinny is a nice guy, and the Bulls gave him a chance.


With the reaction of many people around the NBA, Vinny will be on the bench again coaching a new team some day.

Again, the situation that the Bulls were in caused him to be fired. But the firing is justified, however the way the Bulls front office did it was classless.

Giaps
05-10-2010, 10:36 PM
Stan's not in a position to judge whether Vinny lived up to the organizations expectations.
Every front office executive, tv analyst and PSD poster has an opinion on everything. I think a successful NBA coach who was in a similar position has enough credentials to form his own. I think what he said was spot on and it seems like the real problem seems to be the high expectations set by the Bulls front office and it's fans...

Now that they have 1 more year of playoff experience, improvement of young players and cap room to get better immediately, the next coach is going to come in and get way too much credit for it. It's really unfortunate for Vinny.

ldc62
05-10-2010, 11:43 PM
VDN should not have been fired... he led them to 2 straight Playoff births.

Jonathan2323
05-10-2010, 11:45 PM
SVG should STFU

RadiantShot
05-10-2010, 11:53 PM
Did anyone hear something? I thought I heard a Heat fan. :rolleyes:

blams
05-10-2010, 11:54 PM
VDN should not have been fired... he led them to 2 straight Playoff births.

:facepalm:

This team was held back because of him... He is so stupid it is annoying. I actually love him- as a person I think. He just seems like a cool guy. But as a coach he's ********.

xxcubs22xx
05-10-2010, 11:59 PM
I am one of the few Bulls fans who supported VDN. When it was all said and done, he was 82-82 in his first two regular seasons, not including the playoffs. He has dealt with a tumultuous bench, consisting of players who come and go both in performance and/or attitude and in contract. Can't really blame him as much as he has taken. And ontop of all of that their were injuries, and unfortunate tensions between the front office (GarPax suck)

Jonathan2323
05-11-2010, 12:01 AM
Did anyone hear something? I thought I heard a Heat fan. :rolleyes:

You're lucky you have a good team because the master of panic will fail you in the end.

Ray_R
05-11-2010, 12:07 AM
They did treat him wrong, and i complety agree it could of been handled better.But almost everyone should know he was just a replacement til they saw what they were headed in 2010.

Sadds The Gr8
05-11-2010, 02:21 AM
I agree with SVG. The Bulls organization treated him like $shitt.

HesterTrain
05-11-2010, 02:36 AM
I agree with SVG. The Bulls organization treated him like $shitt.

yeah because you know what you're talking about.

Draco
05-11-2010, 02:44 AM
Every front office executive, tv analyst and PSD poster has an opinion on everything. I think a successful NBA coach who was in a similar position has enough credentials to form his own. I think what he said was spot on and it seems like the real problem seems to be the high expectations set by the Bulls front office and it's fans...

Now that they have 1 more year of playoff experience, improvement of young players and cap room to get better immediately, the next coach is going to come in and get way too much credit for it. It's really unfortunate for Vinny.

It's not about credentials. Stan isn't a part of a Bulls organization and has no idea about what expectations were clearly defined by Gar Forman before the season started.

Draco
05-11-2010, 02:51 AM
"From midseason on, I don't think Vinny got much support from their organization," Stan said. "I didn't understand -- you never know the inner-workings, and so maybe there was some stuff behind the scenes -- but from a coaching perspective, Vinny did a very, very good job with that team.

"They gave up their two best wing scorers in Gordon and [John] Salmons, and they were a great defensive team that struggled to score. I don't think that's shocking when you give up two guys like that. The front office makes the decision to make those trades [Gordon left via free agency],[B] and then Vinny's the scapegoat for it. [It's a] hard thing to understand."

What's hard to understand is the assumption that Vinny was made a scapegoat for the Bulls struggle to score rather than fully acknowledging that there are things he's not privy to.

Sadds The Gr8
05-11-2010, 12:43 PM
yeah because you know what you're talking about.

Firing a guy that led an OVERACHIEVING team to the playoffs 2 years straight, and this year without 2 of his 3 top scorers from last season, and injuries as well isn't treating him like crap? Also Paxson getting into his face and trying to "kick his ***" was real classy too:rolleyes: You guys may think he's a crap coach but he got the most out of an overachieving team, and they treated him like $shitt and you know it.

mikantsass
05-11-2010, 12:49 PM
I know the Bulls fans hated Vinny, but I for one think he got shafted. Making the playoffs as an 7 and 8 seed two years in a row in the East definately is not something to brag about. However I think he has done a good job coaching a team with very limited talent. He also was caught in the midst of Chicago's 3rd rebuilding job in the past 5 years.

Draco
05-11-2010, 12:49 PM
Firing a guy that led an OVERACHIEVING team to the playoffs 2 years straight, and this year without 2 of his 3 top scorers from last season, and injuries as well isn't treating him like crap? Also Paxson getting into his face and trying to "kick his ***" was real classy too:rolleyes: You guys may think he's a crap coach but he got the most out of an overachieving team, and they treated him like $shitt and you know it.

They didn't overachieve.. they achieved exactly what they were capable of.

Draco
05-11-2010, 12:50 PM
I know the Bulls fans hated Vinny, but I for one think he got shafted. Making the playoffs as an 7 and 8 seed two years in a row in the East definately is not something to brag about. However I think he has done a good job coaching a team with very limited talent. He also was caught in the midst of Chicago's 3rd rebuilding job in the past 5 years.

2nd.

Cool007
05-11-2010, 12:56 PM
I am not going to debate here as a Bulls fan but I am going to sum it up this way.

Vinny was Bulls' Point A to Point B coach.

Now that Bulls have chance to sign that big free agent + other signing possibilities and now that Rose and Noah are about to take their games to another level, it's time to go for an experienced (playoff tested) coach. Meaning...

Bulls now need a coach that takes them to Point B to Point C.

Vinny was just a stop-gap coach for 2 years - cheap option.

Tony_Starks
05-11-2010, 12:56 PM
Firing a guy that led an OVERACHIEVING team to the playoffs 2 years straight, and this year without 2 of his 3 top scorers from last season, and injuries as well isn't treating him like crap? Also Paxson getting into his face and trying to "kick his ***" was real classy too:rolleyes: You guys may think he's a crap coach but he got the most out of an overachieving team, and they treated him like $shitt and you know it.


Exactly. I really don't understand people's unrealistic expectations its like they expected the Bulls to win the championship or something. With the players they lost, and not to mention Noah and Deng being down a good portion of the year and Rose being hurt the first half of the season, they did damn good to make the playoffs!

He's got the best out of a offensively challenged Noah, Rose has developed great under him and his players all vouch for him.

Bottom line is he did absolutely the best with the situation he was in, to give him the ax now when they're about to add a max player and actually reach full potential is foolish and ungrateful.

Draco
05-11-2010, 01:02 PM
I am not going to debate here as a Bulls fan but I am going to sum it up this way.

Vinny was Bulls' Point A to Point B coach.

Now that Bulls have chance to sign that big free agent + other signing possibilities and now that Rose and Noah are about to take their games to another level, it's time to go for an experienced (playoff tested) coach. Meaning...

Bulls now need a coach that takes them to Point B to Point C.

Vinny was just a stop-gap coach for 2 years - cheap option.

Maybe, although any chance Vinny might have had to extend his stay apparently disappeared for not meeting expectations. The Bulls are buying him out after all.

chitownbears89
05-11-2010, 01:05 PM
I'm just glad he is gone. Could they have done a better job doing so? yes.

Cool007
05-11-2010, 01:12 PM
Exactly. I really don't understand people's unrealistic expectations its like they expected the Bulls to win the championship or something. With the players they lost, and not to mention Noah and Deng being down a good portion of the year and Rose being hurt the first half of the season, they did damn good to make the playoffs!

He's got the best out of a offensively challenged Noah, Rose has developed great under him and his players all vouch for him.

Bottom line is he did absolutely the best with the situation he was in, to give him the ax now when they're about to add a max player and actually reach full potential is foolish and ungrateful.


Come on Both Rose and Noah worked their ***** off in the summer and that is why they had a major success this season - it has nothing to with Vinny. It could have been you or me coaching and they would still have been great.

If Vinny is such a player developer then how is Tyrus/James Johnson not developed? I know your answer, you will say it depends on the players and their willingness, well that is how Rose and Noah developed - because of their willingness, desire, will and hard work and not because of Vinny.

I partly agree that Vinny did good enough job given the roster but that still doesn't give him excuse for the SO MANY miscues he has had. Remember that 35pt lead that Bulls blew it? It was really a lot coz of Vinny's fault.

How about not saving timeouts at the end, Jack's shoe lace tying at the end of the qtr, not adjusting to the game/situations, probably the worst coach out of a timeout call. Benching Rose for NO REASON at the end of games in favor of Hinrich (on offensive end). There are so many other reasons and I won't waste anyone's time.

Bulls fans and media and whoever followed Bulls know why Vinny was fired and how he is not that good of a coach.

Making playoffs has a lot to do with Rose's awesomeness, Noah's improved play and Deng being healthy this year, and Gordon's big time play/shooting last year, than just coz of Vinny's coaching.

Tony_Starks
05-11-2010, 01:12 PM
Maybe, although any chance Vinny might have had to extend his stay apparently disappeared for not meeting expectations. The Bulls are buying him out after all.


Im just curious man...with the squad that he had, and the injuries they had, what in Gods name could the expectations have been?

Cool007
05-11-2010, 01:20 PM
Im just curious man...with the squad that he had, and the injuries they had, what in Gods name could the expectations have been?

Expectations?

Well, for 1, he should have saved some timeouts at the end of games.

Shouldn't have made mistake to bench your best player (Rose) for no apparant reason in favor of Hinrich.

NO COACH should let the team blow a 35pt lead in the 2nd half.

NO COACH would let the other team's player tie his shoe-lace while holding the ball at the top of the key while players watch.

He is probably THE WORST coach in regards to out-of-a-timeout play calling. He can't even get the ball to his best player and so many times, he had the best player (Rose) inbounding the ball with like 4-seconds to play/end of the game. :facepalm:

There are so many other reasons but I hope you get the point.

IMO, Bulls would have had better record if Bulls had some good experienced coach who can teach offense or has a playbook that consist of more than 4 plays. :cry:

Tony_Starks
05-11-2010, 01:24 PM
Expectations?

Well, for 1, he should have saved some timeouts at the end of games.

Shouldn't have made mistake to bench your best player (Rose) for no apparant reason in favor of Hinrich.

NO COACH should let the team blow a 35pt lead in the 2nd half.

NO COACH would let the other team's player tie his shoe-lace while holding the ball at the top of the key while players watch.

He is probably THE WORST coach in regards to out-of-a-timeout play calling. He can't even get the ball to his best player and so many times, he had the best player (Rose) inbounding the ball with like 4-seconds to play/end of the game. :facepalm:

There are so many other reasons but I hope you get the point.

IMO, Bulls would have had better record if Bulls had some good experienced coach who can teach offense or has a playbook that consist of more than 4 plays. :cry:


I think you're missing my point. You're just picking apart every mistake he made and Im talking big picture.

My question is: what were the (overall) expectations that you seriously thought they should've met? A Championship? Or even getting to the Conference finals?

SDBearsFan
05-11-2010, 01:27 PM
Stan Van Gundy shouldn't even be talking about the Bulls situation. Hell, before this recent stretch, he didn't even know how to utilize Dwight Howard correctly. Thank god he got his **** together because with the talent Orlando has, they BETTER make the finals.

Pierzynski4Prez
05-11-2010, 01:28 PM
People are acting like the whole VDN/Paxson scuffle is the reason why he was fired.

We all knew that VDN was simply gone after this year. It couldn't have been more obvious around the holiday season that this was his last year. His junior high playbook simply doesn't cut it in the NBA, and that was obvious a while back. As someone said earlier, he did his job into getting us to Point B. He was never really part of the plans to get us to Point C.

Pierzynski4Prez
05-11-2010, 01:29 PM
I think you're missing my point. You're just picking apart every mistake he made and Im talking big picture.

My question is: what were the (overall) expectations that you seriously thought they should've met? A Championship? Or even getting to the Conference finals?

2 seasons of .500 ball is not exactly something that merits you a contract extension. So yes, in a way he didn't meet expectations in that the best he could do was average basketball.

Stunner
05-11-2010, 01:32 PM
Let me clear everthing up, Bulls in both season under Vinny were expected to be a 7th to 8th seed in the playoffs. Like it or not the Bulls were a lower seeded playoff team even with their lack of talent. Bull were allways one player away form being that team. Vinny was treated badly from the Front Office but he did make some bone head plays and didnt use some of the players on the team the right way. Im happy he did take us to the playoffs in his term as head coach but he wasnt the coach we were going to have as a ideal coach for a 5 year span thats why he got the short contract. For the Bulls to take the next level they need that coach that has more exp and who can push players to another level and a coach who All-Star and Superstar players want to play for. To attract a max player u need that coach a player may want to play for. Long story short Vinny wasnt in the Bulls future plans no matter the outcome.

pacofunk64
05-11-2010, 01:34 PM
THe only reason Vinny is not the coach is because no superstar will want to play for him.

Cool007
05-11-2010, 01:36 PM
I think you're missing my point. You're just picking apart every mistake he made and Im talking big picture.

My question is: what were the (overall) expectations that you seriously thought they should've met? A Championship? Or even getting to the Conference finals?

Ofcourse not championship but 6th seed and atleast 6-7 games series or possibly a 2nd round.

If Bulls had faced Hawks in the first round, Bulls would have been in the 2nd round most likely. Everyone knows Hawks were the weak link at the top - pretenders.

Sometimes you have to look at things beyond just records. As a coach, vinny failed and there were so many evidence night in and night out. Especially when a coach can't call plays that work and bad out of timeouts, can't adjust to situations and has only like 4-plays in his offensive playbook, then it's really hard to bring that coach back for another year, let alone extension.

Tony_Starks
05-11-2010, 01:57 PM
Ofcourse not championship but 6th seed and atleast 6-7 games series or possibly a 2nd round.

If Bulls had faced Hawks in the first round, Bulls would have been in the 2nd round most likely. Everyone knows Hawks were the weak link at the top - pretenders.

Sometimes you have to look at things beyond just records. As a coach, vinny failed and there were so many evidence night in and night out. Especially when a coach can't call plays that work and bad out of timeouts, can't adjust to situations and has only like 4-plays in his offensive playbook, then it's really hard to bring that coach back for another year, let alone extension.


I see what you're saying but I guess my point is that pretty much everyone had the Bulls right where they ended up, making the playoffs, playing hard, and bowing out. So when I keep hearing"expectations" being thrown around I'm like well he met the overall expectations if you're being realistic. Actually with the situation this year he exceed expectations.

Now on a night in and night out basis Im sure he made mistakes. Hell Laker fans are critical of Phil during the year and he's one of the best but thats just the nature of coaching, nobodies perfect.

I just can't see someone doing a better job with what he had the past two years. How quickly we forget that he took the world champs through one of the best series ever played btw....

RipVW
05-11-2010, 01:59 PM
I am one of the few Bulls fans who supported VDN. When it was all said and done, he was 82-82 in his first two regular seasons, not including the playoffs. He has dealt with a tumultuous bench, consisting of players who come and go both in performance and/or attitude and in contract. Can't really blame him as much as he has taken. And ontop of all of that their were injuries, and unfortunate tensions between the front office (GarPax suck)

Who says it was about blame?

RipVW
05-11-2010, 02:08 PM
People need to realize that the Bulls said theyre making the change because theyre looking forward to taking the next step. That doesnt say Vinny did anything wrong.

When they hired Vinny, he had no coaching experience and had worked in a front office. Both the Bulls and Vinny mutually benefited. Vinny did some good things and some bad things but that comes along with hiring an inexperienced coach. Im sure the Bulls understood this. Vinny got his feet wet. He got some experience and now has a solid base from which to build from at his next coaching position.

I think Vinny would make a good coach in New Jersey.

ChiSox219
05-11-2010, 03:55 PM
THe only reason Vinny is not the coach is because no superstar will want to play for him.

This is how I view it.

I think VDN did a decent job, nothing great but not especially bad. Rose and Noah's development offensively exceeded expectations and the team played solid defense. I'm not sure Rose's is the brightest bulb, so people knocking VDN's play book should factor in that Rose is more effective playing simplified basketball where he can do his thing.

But if the difference between getting Bosh or Amare is our head coach, I'm all for getting rid of VDN.

Sadds The Gr8
05-11-2010, 11:19 PM
They didn't overachieve.. they achieved exactly what they were capable of.

Not really...they got alot of injuries at a very crucial part of the season and went on the 10 gm losing streak....pretty much every1 writ them off after that streak, but they were able to still make the playoffs over the Raps by making a great run at the end of the year. And even if they achieved exactly what they were capable of, why fire him? He got the most out of that team and they couldn't have done any better. They weren't getting outta the 1st round anyways...You can't expect a team to get better after losing 2 of your best scorers.