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KOENIG
05-09-2010, 11:18 AM
Who's going to be the fall guy for this embarassment of a team? Hendry, Piniella, Rothschild or Jaramillo?

cubyfan07
05-09-2010, 11:34 AM
The starting pitching has been pretty good. It is the bullpen that needs help. I don't think that is Rothschild's fault. If anyone gets fired, it will be Lou. But even then you might as well keep him till the end of the year.

semperfi
05-09-2010, 11:34 AM
How about Lee and Ramirez and the crappy bullpen?

KOENIG
05-09-2010, 11:43 AM
Hendry doesn't have the balls or brains to trade any of his underperforming "talent". He'll pass the buck and blame someone else for this mess.

scrubs101
05-09-2010, 11:53 AM
:cry:

Ron!n
05-09-2010, 11:55 AM
I really want Lou fired. Im a big supporter of Hendry, he did overpay fro some contracts. But look at the trades hes done: Lee, Ramirez, Fonty, Gorzo, Harden etc...

I think hes a very good dealer but not that good with FA contracts. Could be because of his background as a scout.

Cub_StuckinSTL
05-09-2010, 12:08 PM
Anybody that says rothschild is an idiot. Wasn't last year the first year since like 2000 that the cubs pitchers haven't led the league in ks? And were 2nd to the giants? Granted we've had some nasty talent but that's a long *** stretch. That being said he's been with us since 2002?

ReJo
05-09-2010, 12:47 PM
Ricketts seems like a pretty level headed guy. I seriously doubt anyone will be fired during the season. At some point he's gonna bring in his own guys but I think he's gonna give the holdovers a fair chance to turn this thing around

Mell413
05-09-2010, 01:34 PM
I would rather Lou get fired before anyone else. I think Hendry is better than people give him credit for. Aside from the Soriano and Zambrano contracts I don't have any major problems with him. I think he does make it hard on himself by not having someone on the statistics side to help him out. I doubt anyone gets fired during the season.

jiggin
05-09-2010, 02:10 PM
How about Lee and Ramirez and the crappy bullpen?

no way...actually blaming the people responsible for what is happening on the field? no fan wants to do that to their perfect players!

Lou's in his contract year, right? I am sure it would be his pleasure to walk away from a team that is so inconsistent on both sides of the chalk lines.

in looking at firing someone, u have to think of who their replacement would be and if it creates a better situation in the future. have an answer for that? knee jerk reactions are what make ball clubs take several steps and years backwards in order to " make a point ".

not worth it...I see no other better replacements ending their contracts at years end. besides, it's only flippin' the beginning of may and the cubs are only 5 games out of first. why flip out now and make sure the season is tanked?

ty_smitty21
05-09-2010, 03:04 PM
Rothschild and Jaramillo should still be here next year if you want my opinion. They are both excellent coaches. I'm not sure how Rothschild gets any blame for having one of the top pitching staffs every single year.

Lou and Jim both need to go.. the sooner the better.

Next year's team could have Ryno managing, Castro and Colvin playing everyday, Cashner possibly in the rotation, a few of the old vets gone, and a few new guys via trade or free agents. The biggest move we will make is who the next GM will be. If the right moves are made, the Cubs could end up being serious contenders for a long time with a good mix of youth and vets.

LaToyaHawkins
05-09-2010, 03:27 PM
When the season ends Hendry will be fired and Lou will not be offered a contract. I don't have any issues with Jaramillo. Soto, Soriano, and Fontenot are all hitting better than last year. Aramis and Derrek Lee aren't, but hopefully both will be gone soon anyways.

daddies3angels
05-09-2010, 03:49 PM
well boys its been frustrating 6 weeks and i dont see it getting anybetter. Colvin needs to play everyday somewhere and i think its time to start over. try to get whatever we can for anyone we can. only untouchables should be SOTO,Castro,Colvin. everyone else can go

StrandedCub
05-09-2010, 03:58 PM
I kinda like Hendry.. I'm all good for Lou going though.

abe_froman
05-09-2010, 04:03 PM
lou.contract's up at the end of the year,overtones that he might not be coming back even before the season started,and they paid rudy a boatload of money...and dont think they handed it over to him just to be cubs hitting coach throughout the life of the contract

KOENIG
05-09-2010, 04:04 PM
Has anybody else noticed that the Cubs are playing THIS poorly and they haven't even played a GOOD team yet? What happens when they start playing the Cardinals and the Phillies and the good teams in the West? With their payroll the Cubs should be like the Phillies and the Yankees. Their goal every year should be to get to the World Series, not merely to play .500 baseball and hope to reach the postseason.

Randall Simon
05-09-2010, 04:30 PM
Ricketts seems like a pretty level headed guy. I seriously doubt anyone will be fired during the season. At some point he's gonna bring in his own guys but I think he's gonna give the holdovers a fair chance to turn this thing around

and at the end of the season WHEN this team is somewhere near .500 Lou will quit & Hendry will be let go.
If Hendry wants to keep his job he better turn some of these older guys into a stack of specs. Lilly, Lee, Z, Fuku, Nady, Theriot, Gorzo, Fonty, Baker, should all be candidates for trade IMO.

jiggin
05-09-2010, 04:51 PM
and at the end of the season WHEN this team is somewhere near .500 Lou will quit & Hendry will be let go.
If Hendry wants to keep his job he better turn some of these older guys into a stack of specs. Lilly, Lee, Z, Fuku, Nady, Theriot, Gorzo, Fonty, Baker, should all be candidates for trade IMO.

awful lot of his (hendry) contract left (goes through 2012 now)...

...be an expensive firing.

KOENIG
05-09-2010, 05:03 PM
and at the end of the season WHEN this team is somewhere near .500 Lou will quit & Hendry will be let go.
If Hendry wants to keep his job he better turn some of these older guys into a stack of specs. Lilly, Lee, Z, Fuku, Nady, Theriot, Gorzo, Fonty, Baker, should all be candidates for trade IMO.

Good post! I agree. Next question for Cub fans out there. Being realistic, how many seasons is this organization away from actually getting to, and winning the World Series? In my opinion, I can't see the Cubs winning the World Series before 2015.

Jilly Bohnson
05-09-2010, 05:12 PM
Good post! I agree. Next question for Cub fans out there. Being realistic, how many seasons is this organization away from actually getting to, and winning the World Series? In my opinion, I can't see the Cubs winning the World Series before 2015.

Well that's just silly

jiggin
05-09-2010, 05:27 PM
Good post! I agree. Next question for Cub fans out there. Being realistic, how many seasons is this organization away from actually getting to, and winning the World Series? In my opinion, I can't see the Cubs winning the World Series before 2015.

crystal ball is foggy. try again later.

BUD Bleachers
05-09-2010, 05:41 PM
I can't help but think that everybody gets a free pass for the first season under the Ricketts family.

Even with the various injuries, the players simply aren't performing consistently for the second season in a row now.

This one is truly on the players.

I don't feel that it's any fault of the coaching staff or administration. I really like the approach that our hitters are taking at the plate; they're simply not hitting.

The starting pitching has been giving us plenty of good performances in putting us in a position to win baseball games. The BP is dicey, but we knew that was going to be the case based on the talent.

With all of that stated, and I'm going to do a complete 180 right now, I feel the next move is to fire Lou. We don't know what goes on behind the scenes; he could be screaming at these guys in trying to motivate them; regardless, it's not working. You can't fire players, and it's going to be next to impossible to unload a lot of these guys with all of the owed money.

In most cases, a team takes on the complexion of the manager, and there seems to be an issue with the mindsets of these Cubs players. When teams play so inconsistently, it's usually a mental thing. This team has shown that they can kill it and play with anybody. LaRussa is the master of getting the most of his players. A team like the Cubs could really benefit from a guy like him.

The Cardinals under LaRussa are truly a performance culture. The White Sox under Guillen are similar. You don't play hard and perform, you simply don't play. That's not how it works on the North Side. Everybody gets a free pass, and there's so much money on the table that it's almost more embarrassing not to play them even when they are in slumps.

Like it's been stated, Lou is pretty much done after this year and this team needs a jolt. I think bringing up Sandberg is the move right now. He's younger. He comprehends the sense of urgency to win in this town. He's a fan favorite. He was a winner on a team of losers. Also, he won't cost a lot right now.

I think Lou has lost his team. They're not playing for him. I think Sandberg's presence is the new face and energy this team needs right now.

StrandedCub
05-09-2010, 05:58 PM
Good post! I agree. Next question for Cub fans out there. Being realistic, how many seasons is this organization away from actually getting to, and winning the World Series? In my opinion, I can't see the Cubs winning the World Series before 2015.

I really don't know how far they are away. With this team, they may be pretty far. But the Cubs aren't a normal team when it comes to rebuilding. We could get rid of a lot of the core guys this year and be pretty competitive by 2012 IMO. The thing is, we have money and lots of it.

Free agent signing aren't a big deal for this team. Let's be realistic, Josh Vitters, Brett Jackson, Andrew Cashner, and Hak-Ju Lee are more than likely not all going to pan out to be what many people expect from them. So assuming we "rebuild", we will probably go out and sign a big name or two at least following the 2011 season.

Assuming no trades, we allow contracts to run out and not resign anybody, and not taking into consideration arbitration... We have $62.5 million under contracts come 2012.

Sooo..
SP - Zambrano
SP - Dempster
SP - Wells
SP - Gorzo
SP - ?????

C - Soto
1B - ?????
2B - Theriot
SS - Castro
3B - ?????
LF - Soriano
CF - Byrd
RF - ?????

I think the dream scenario for me would be to fill 3 of 4 of those spots with Vitters, Jackson, and Cashner with 1B being filled by FA signing like Fielder. What would you guys like to see this team do to come 2012?

A view of the contracts next couple seasons:
http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=tt7HjIernphaSrv4wMWdUYg&output=html

Randall Simon
05-09-2010, 06:12 PM
The Cubs won't take that long to rebuild. Shed some payroll and then sign a couple FA's.

I would stay far away from Fielder (and for that matter Ugla.) They both reek of future bad contracts. Both are players who offer nothing to a team besides power hitting. That is something that can & will go away with a big contract (or a bad diet!)
Also, 1B is the easiest position to fill. Any solid hitter who struggles defensively can be moved there. I think it's entirely reasonable that Rammy ends up there for us in a year or two.

whitesoxfan83
05-09-2010, 06:13 PM
I cannot believe Jim Hendry isnt running away with this over Pinella.

2nd highest payroll in baseball and this guy still cannot produce a playoff team. That alone should be a fire-able offense.

Chicago baseball is so sad right now...

Jilly Bohnson
05-09-2010, 06:33 PM
I really don't know how far they are away. With this team, they may be pretty far. But the Cubs aren't a normal team when it comes to rebuilding. We could get rid of a lot of the core guys this year and be pretty competitive by 2012 IMO. The thing is, we have money and lots of it.

Free agent signing aren't a big deal for this team. Let's be realistic, Josh Vitters, Brett Jackson, Andrew Cashner, and Hak-Ju Lee are more than likely not all going to pan out to be what many people expect from them. So assuming we "rebuild", we will probably go out and sign a big name or two at least following the 2011 season.

Assuming no trades, we allow contracts to run out and not resign anybody, and not taking into consideration arbitration... We have $62.5 million under contracts come 2012.

Sooo..
SP - Zambrano
SP - Dempster
SP - Wells
SP - Gorzo
SP - ?????

C - Soto
1B - ?????
2B - Theriot
SS - Castro
3B - ?????
LF - Soriano
CF - Byrd
RF - ?????

I think the dream scenario for me would be to fill 3 of 4 of those spots with Vitters, Jackson, and Cashner with 1B being filled by FA signing like Fielder. What would you guys like to see this team do to come 2012?

A view of the contracts next couple seasons:
http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=tt7HjIernphaSrv4wMWdUYg&output=html

Here's the way I see it. Counting Castro, we have three very good position player prospects, and two very good starting pitchign prospects, with Carpenter not too far behind. Let's say one of our position guys turns out to be a good player, one of them average, and one of them a bust, and similarly on the pitching side one of Cashner/Jackson/Carpenter ends up a good starter, one of them a good reliever, and one of them a bust. Then, you figure we're going to stay a top 5 payroll type of team, so one of Agon or Prince has a pretty good chance of ending up here. Let's just say for the sake of argument, that Starlin and Jay Jackson are the good ones, Vitters is the average one, Cashner ends up a reliever, and Brett Jackson and Carpenter are the busts. We could very easily have a 2012 team of

C - Geovany Soto(29 years old)
1b - Prince Fielder (28)
2b - Ryan Theriot (32)
SS - Starlin Castro (22)
3b - Josh Vitters (22)
LF - Alfonso Soriano (36)
CF - Marlon Byrd (34)
RF - Who the hell knows

Carlos Zambrano (31)
Ryan Dempster (35)
Randy Wells (29)
Tom Gorzelanny (29)
Jay Jackson (24)

Carlos Marmol (29)
Andrew Cashner (24)
Sean Marhall (29)
Plus several of the guys who are young now should be established by then

We're two years and not that much luck away from being a good team that's not that old again. Saying it'll take til 2015 to be WS caliber is very pessimistic IMO. And more importantly than anything, this division sucks. And this division is going to continue to suck for the foreseeable future. The Cardinals are going to be hurting badly once they have to pay market value for Pujols, and the other 4 teams are too dumb/cheap to be consistently good. We have a pretty good shot at the playoffs every year but next year probably.

Mell413
05-09-2010, 06:35 PM
I cannot believe Jim Hendry isnt running away with this over Pinella.

2nd highest payroll in baseball and this guy still cannot produce a playoff team. That alone should be a fire-able offense.

Chicago baseball is so sad right now...

I can't speak for anyone on this board, but for me I think there is enough talent on this team to win. As far as this season goes you can blame Hendry for not overpaying for a reliever if you wanted to. I'm not going to blame him for Lee and Ramirez not hitting, which are the 2 biggest problems on the team IMHO.The 2009 team was the favorite going into that season so people must have liked what Hendry had done. If you saw some of the lineups and his bullpen management you would see how bad Lou is.

KOENIG
05-09-2010, 07:50 PM
The problem remains Hendry building his team to be "competetive in the division". Every move he makes should with be the intent of it helping his team reach, and win, the World Series.

jiggin
05-09-2010, 08:01 PM
I cannot believe Jim Hendry isnt running away with this over Pinella.

2nd highest payroll in baseball and this guy still cannot produce a playoff team. That alone should be a fire-able offense.

Chicago baseball is so sad right now...

you can put together a team that on paper should be in competition for the division and making the playoffs.

at some point, the players have to be held accountable for their lack of performance on the field. This is one of those times.

Once people start holding the players accountable and stop blaming the management, the team will be headed in the right direction.

No need to send the players a message via a management firing. The players need to be DIRECTLY sent a message, and that starts with benching players struggling and moving hot hitting players into the lineup more often, even if that means eating the big paycheck that goes with the benching. They proved they don't care about that when they moved Zambrano to the bullpen to be an 18 million dollar reliever.

jiggin
05-09-2010, 08:02 PM
The problem remains Hendry building his team to be "competetive in the division". Every move he makes should with be the intent of it helping his team reach, and win, the World Series.

you win the division you are in the playoffs. Its not about which team was the best all year in the playoffs, its about what team gets hot at that time.

Acronym
05-09-2010, 08:24 PM
you win the division you are in the playoffs. Its not about which team was the best all year in the playoffs, its about what team gets hot at that time.

To be hot means to win games in a short span. The best chance to win games in a short span is to have the best team. Sometimes it doesn't work out. But more often than not, it will. That's just basic probability. If you just build a team to get to the playoffs and hope to get hot, you're going about it in the entirely wrong way. You try to make your team the best in the world, and then hope they perform to that level.

At least, if you want to win a World Series.

jiggin
05-09-2010, 08:36 PM
To be hot means to win games in a short span. The best chance to win games in a short span is to have the best team. Sometimes it doesn't work out. But more often than not, it will. That's just basic probability. If you just build a team to get to the playoffs and hope to get hot, you're going about it in the entirely wrong way. You try to make your team the best in the world, and then hope they perform to that level.

At least, if you want to win a World Series.

say that to the numerous teams built to try and withstand the division and ending up winning it all. Those teams on paper did not look built to go the distance, but once in the playoffs players caught fire and carried them the distance (or the competition struggled at the plate *aka the cubs being better on paper but losing in 4 straight).

what about the cardinals in 06, white sox in 05, marlins in 03...and those are just recent ones.

not every team can build a Yankees roster...so building to win it all is putting the cart before the horse. you build to win one step at a time...starting with the division and to hopefully dominate the teams you play 14 times a year.

This is also why teams often, during a playoff push, boost their roster with 1 year rental trades ect... They started the year to win the division but change their focus as they see the playoffs are in sight. At that point its no longer about winning the division (unless its close) but its about boosting that playoff roster so it is now stacked for a world series run.

just my opinion on the topic :D

windycityD
05-09-2010, 09:08 PM
you can put together a team that on paper should be in competition for the division and making the playoffs.

at some point, the players have to be held accountable for their lack of performance on the field. This is one of those times.

Once people start holding the players accountable and stop blaming the management, the team will be headed in the right direction.

No need to send the players a message via a management firing. The players need to be DIRECTLY sent a message, and that starts with benching players struggling and moving hot hitting players into the lineup more often, even if that means eating the big paycheck that goes with the benching. They proved they don't care about that when they moved Zambrano to the bullpen to be an 18 million dollar reliever.

It's been reported by several people that Jimbo was not pleased about the Z to the pen move. Lou made that move for two reasons: our right handed set up options & results before that move were total crap & imo, to show w/o saying it out loud that the pen he was handed out of spring training was & is flawed. That's Hendry's fault and I'm tired of the boo hoo over Guzman, who apart from most of 2009 and part of 2006, had constant injuries. You cannot rely on an arm like that in that big of a role going into another season, no matter how good his 2009 was. That's not on Lou.

Without a doubt, where Lou deserves 1000% criticism is his refusal to move Soto up in the line up to where he should be hitting, which is either clean up or #5 at an absolute minimum. With Lee and Ramirez both struggling and Soto not, this lack of a move makes utterly no sense. What also makes no sense is sitting both Soriano and Soto in games. Whether some of our starters do not like to work with Soto behind the dish is fair game for debate. But, when you're struggling to score runs more often than not, sitting two guys in the same game who have been producing is self-defeating.

CubbieSteve
05-09-2010, 09:12 PM
If anyone is fired at all, it'll be Lou first. I don't see it happening during the year, he'll just walk at the end of the year.

StrandedCub
05-09-2010, 09:25 PM
you win the division you are in the playoffs. Its not about which team was the best all year in the playoffs, its about what team gets hot at that time.

So true... Would it be nice to have a great team like we did in '08? Absolutely. But just constantly being in the playoffs is fine by me. It really is just who is hottest when the playoffs come around.