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davidfox11
05-07-2010, 10:33 AM
score reporting

thawv
05-07-2010, 10:35 AM
It's about time! Theriot, with his second baseman's arm and little to no range can be moved to second. This is a good thing fellow fans.

Diehdcubsfan2
05-07-2010, 10:35 AM
yeah MLB trade has that up on their site.

http://twitter.com/Enrique_Rojas1/status/13549863110

ReJo
05-07-2010, 10:36 AM
Yep
http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/37017632/ns/sports-player_news/

Enrique Rojas of ESPN Deportes reports that the Cubs have called up prospect shortstop Starlin Castro.

According to Rojas, Castro is en route to meet the club for this weekend's series against the Reds. If true, it represents a surprising change of pace for the club, as Cubs general manager Jim Hendry said Castro was not in line for an early-season promotion as recently as last week. Castro, 20, is batting .376/.421/.569 with one home run, 20 RBI and 20 runs scored over 109 at-bats with Double-A Tennessee. He was ranked as the organization's No. 1 prospect by Baseball America over the winter. His promotion would push Ryan Theriot to second base.
Source: Enrique Rojas on Twitter

I don't know if he's the savior but hell might as well try it?

Diehdcubsfan2
05-07-2010, 10:36 AM
It's about time! Theriot, with his second baseman's arm and little to no range can be moved to second. This is a good thing fellow fans.

I still think he will be traded for some BP help. He has value.

For now though, bye Tracy.

Theriot at 2B

Font super lefty off bench

Max Power
05-07-2010, 10:38 AM
Desperation sets in...

Vandelay16
05-07-2010, 10:39 AM
Am I dreaming?!

ReJo
05-07-2010, 10:41 AM
Wonder what the corresponding move will be? Tracy or Baker down to the minors or someone on the DL?

Shunoo
05-07-2010, 10:42 AM
Can't wait for that jersey shirt.

Vandelay16
05-07-2010, 10:42 AM
The Cubs call up Starlin Castro and
I JIZZ IN MY PANTS!

Shunoo
05-07-2010, 10:43 AM
I just wish him the best of luck.

Hopefully we can start playing consistently better with the second coming in the lineup.

Vandelay16
05-07-2010, 10:45 AM
Anyone think Lou is gonna play him today?

ReJo
05-07-2010, 10:46 AM
Anyone think Lou is gonna play him today?

Oh yeah that's a guarantee. They are not calling him up to sit the bench that's for sure

poodski
05-07-2010, 10:47 AM
What a ****ing franchise.

BUD Bleachers
05-07-2010, 10:47 AM
Hmm. This is an interesting move.

I feel that Cubs management and ownership are getting senses of urgency; however, it's not translating down to the players on the field.

Getting swept by the Pirates? In that empty ballpark? With that crumby pitching? When the Cards lost 3 (in a row)/4 to the Phillies?

Okay. So let the Starlin Castro era begin.

1908_Cubs
05-07-2010, 10:47 AM
Oh yay. Lets rush another one of our top prospects. You'd think, "hey it didn't work with Pie and Patterson maybe this time we should be careful".

Then. This happens.

cowboydoc45
05-07-2010, 10:50 AM
I had a feeling this was about to happen. The question is, where will Lou bat him (if he plays at all). I would hate to see him hit 8th and get pitched around almost as much as I would hate to see him rot on the bench. This could signify other large moves soon...

scrubs101
05-07-2010, 10:51 AM
not mush to lose IMO..........he was going to be starting next April at the LATEST and he's on fire now, so why not break him in now instead of next April or this September? this could be our infield for the next few years so let them start playing together now?.......and I don't think they're trading Theriot at all.

WorldChamps1908
05-07-2010, 10:51 AM
Oh yay. Lets rush another one of our top prospects. You'd think, "hey it didn't work with Pie and Patterson maybe this time we should be careful".

Then. This happens.

I was just about to post this. Lets hope Starlin can beat the trend.

BDawk4Prez
05-07-2010, 10:52 AM
Wow...

:dumbfounded:

1908_Cubs
05-07-2010, 10:53 AM
I was just about to post this. Lets hope Starlin can beat the trend.

:speechless:

We......agree.....on.......something........

weneedpitching
05-07-2010, 10:53 AM
I had a feeling this was about to happen. The question is, where will Lou bat him (if he plays at all). I would hate to see him hit 8th and get pitched around almost as much as I would hate to see him rot on the bench. This could signify other large moves soon...

I agree but what Lou said the other day about Aramis kinda scares me about his perception of the 8th hole. I believe he said something like if you can't hit 8th, you can't hit anywhere. That implies hitting 8 is easier than hitting 7, which I disagree with entirely. For a free-swinger like Castro, the 8 spot is a horrible spot.

Shunoo
05-07-2010, 10:53 AM
I was just about to post this. Lets hope Starlin can beat the trend.

Third times a charm?

MrPoon
05-07-2010, 10:54 AM
Oh yay. Lets rush another one of our top prospects. You'd think, "hey it didn't work with Pie and Patterson maybe this time we should be careful".

Then. This happens.

that was my first reaction, but Im starting to realize that if this team is gonna hit the panic button so soon that it might be better to just call up castro and roll the dice then to overpay for some schmuck through a trade.

weneedpitching
05-07-2010, 10:57 AM
Theriot for Pujols time

cowboydoc45
05-07-2010, 10:57 AM
that was my first reaction, but Im starting to realize that if this team is gonna hit the panic button so soon that it might be better to just call up castro and roll the dice then to overpay for some schmuck through a trade.

unless Castro is leading up to the trade for a schmuck. Castro just made a couple of players "expendable". Theriot will likely slide to 2b becoming our everyday 2b/backup SS. That leaves us with 3 2b. Fontenot can also back up ss, and 3b but is best at 2b. Baker can back up both corner spots, but isn't viable at ss. Tracy also becomes an odd man out if we keep Fontenot and Baker. The question is if we make a trade now... it's who gone!!

Cubs420
05-07-2010, 10:58 AM
why not, the team has nothing to lose...

I would have waited another month, but so be it.. The kid is tearing the cover off the ball at the most talented level in the minors and he batted over .400 in spring training...

He's ready IMO.

ReJo
05-07-2010, 10:58 AM
Oh yay. Lets rush another one of our top prospects. You'd think, "hey it didn't work with Pie and Patterson maybe this time we should be careful".

Then. This happens.

Pie and Patterson weren't rushed. Pie didn't get consistent playing time and they gave up on him too early. Patterson just couldn't hit major league pitching.

Castro may be young but he's definitely ready. He has nothing more to prove in AA.

poodski
05-07-2010, 10:59 AM
Go Reds!

MrPoon
05-07-2010, 10:59 AM
unless Castro is leading up to the trade for a schmuck. Castro just made a couple of players "expendable". Theriot will likely slide to 2b becoming our everyday 2b/backup SS. That leaves us with 3 2b. Fontenot can also back up ss, and 3b but is best at 2b. Baker can back up both corner spots, but isn't viable at ss. Tracy also becomes an odd man out if we keep Fontenot and Baker. The question is if we make a trade now... it's who gone!!


exactly. id rather let one of them go for a schmuck then one of our prospects.

Str1fe5
05-07-2010, 11:01 AM
This is the right move. This team isn't going anywhere, Castro clearly is beyond the level of AA. Scouts and the numbers agree, Castro is *basically* ready. Lets just hope Lou doesn't do something stupid like lead him off in his first start like he did with Pie. Just bat him 8th for a month, let him get his feet wet. He's going to be the starting SS next year, why bring him up in 2 months when you can bring him up now? Let him get as much playing time as possible.

This team is done. Done zo. Forget it. Calling up Castro is the right move. Lee, Fukudome, Lilly, and Silva (hopefully Silva continues to be mediocre) should all be moved @ the deadline. Let Tracy/Nady platoon @ 1B for the year. Hopefully Colvin can do something in RF, if not, then go ahead and make a push for Jayson Werth or Carl Crawford in the off season, and get room to make a run at Cliff Lee also. Maybe re sign Lee in the off season for a 1 year or two or sign possibly Adam Dunn. Call Cashner up later this season, too.

BUD Bleachers
05-07-2010, 11:01 AM
Oh yay. Lets rush another one of our top prospects. You'd think, "hey it didn't work with Pie and Patterson maybe this time we should be careful".

Then. This happens.

It didn't work with Pie and Patterson because time has now shown us that they simply weren't that good.

Young or old, good is good.

I always think of Miguel Cabrera, um, he's only 27 (19 years old when he made his debut) and played on the World Series champion Marlins in '03, remember?

Heck, look at Carlos Zambrano. He'll be 29 in June and he pitched his first game for the Cubs at Wrigley in 2001. He, of course, secured a spot in the rotation in 2003.

The point is; I don't hear anybody complaining about Z.

Good is good. If Castro is the real deal, he'll shine on this level right now.

gocubs2118
05-07-2010, 11:01 AM
Theriot for Pujols time

Why on earth would we do that?

Str1fe5
05-07-2010, 11:02 AM
It didn't work with Pie and Patterson because time has now shown us that they simply weren't that good.

Young or old, good is good.

I always think of Miguel Cabrera, um, he's only 27 (19 years old when he made his debut) and played on the World Series champion Marlins in '03, remember?

Heck, look at Carlos Zambrano. He'll be 29 in June and he pitched his first game for the Cubs at Wrigley in 2001. He, of course, secured a spot in the rotation in 2003.

The point is; I don't hear anybody complaining about Z.

Good is good. If Castro is the real deal, he'll shine on this level right now.

Well before his injury Pie was doing awfully good in Baltimore. I'd say the jury is still out on him. But definitely true of Corey Patterson. But then he had a major injury too, and before that he was on his way to the All Star game.

cubsneedmiracle
05-07-2010, 11:03 AM
See what the kid can do..

Maybe he's the real deal.

Its easy to be a pessimist. Lets let the kid have some good time to play.. Then judge him.

cubsneedmiracle
05-07-2010, 11:04 AM
Why on earth would we do that?

That would be a terrible trade for us..

We can't lose Mr. Scrappy.

scrubs101
05-07-2010, 11:04 AM
Go Reds!


:cry:

CubbieSteve
05-07-2010, 11:06 AM
Saw this coming a mile away.

I don't really love it, but I don't hate it either. At least it will generate a little bit of excitement around this team.

I'm definitely going to be in the market for a jersey shirt.

poodski
05-07-2010, 11:08 AM
Pie and Patterson weren't rushed. Pie didn't get consistent playing time and they gave up on him too early. Patterson just couldn't hit major league pitching.

Castro may be young but he's definitely ready. He has nothing more to prove in AA.

C-Patt wasnt rushed my ***. He was. He hit better than Castro at age 19, in the same level, like A LOT better than Castro ever did.

Patterson could hit major league hitting as proved by his 2003 season and his 2004 season where he had an 820 OPS half way through September of that year.

And in 2005 instead of sitting him a bit Dusty Baker just ruined him and then he was ran out of this town by fans who forgot all about 2003 and 2004.

Then there is Pie who is honestly just C-Patt light. Not as good with the bat not as good with the glove, but he was never "given the shot" here and now fans still love him even though he wasnt as good as Patterson.

Now we have Castro who is hitting well for the first time in his career and is being brought up for no reason. Its like they didnt learn with Patterson who was better than Castro at age 19. Castro is hitting a little better at age 20 though in the tiny sample size.

This is literally the worst move the organization has made in a long time. This is dumb dumb dumb, but I guess our 2B tandem is terrible right now, but its not like thats the only bad part of this team.

BDawk4Prez
05-07-2010, 11:09 AM
Go Reds!

Would you like that in large bills?

:sigh:

1908_Cubs
05-07-2010, 11:09 AM
It didn't work with Pie and Patterson because time has now shown us that they simply weren't that good.

Young or old, good is good.

I always think of Miguel Cabrera, um, he's only 27 (19 years old when he made his debut) and played on the World Series champion Marlins in '03, remember?

Heck, look at Carlos Zambrano. He'll be 29 in June and he pitched his first game for the Cubs at Wrigley in 2001. He, of course, secured a spot in the rotation in 2003.

The point is; I don't hear anybody complaining about Z.

Good is good. If Castro is the real deal, he'll shine on this level right now.

Says who? He's 20 years old who's barely had any time above A ball. Let that sink in. He's 20 years old and barely has any time at all above A ball. Maybe we should have sent him to AAA.

And it's not like our 2b or SS isn't producing at decent levels. It's stupid, it's silly, and ridiculous.

Cubs420
05-07-2010, 11:10 AM
This is the right move. This team isn't going anywhere, Castro clearly is beyond the level of AA. Scouts and the numbers agree, Castro is *basically* ready. Lets just hope Lou doesn't do something stupid like lead him off in his first start like he did with Pie. Just bat him 8th for a month, let him get his feet wet. He's going to be the starting SS next year, why bring him up in 2 months when you can bring him up now? Let him get as much playing time as possible.

This team is done. Done zo. Forget it. Calling up Castro is the right move. Lee, Fukudome, Lilly, and Silva (hopefully Silva continues to be mediocre) should all be moved @ the deadline. Let Tracy/Nady platoon @ 1B for the year. Hopefully Colvin can do something in RF, if not, then go ahead and make a push for Jayson Werth or Carl Crawford in the off season, and get room to make a run at Cliff Lee also. Maybe re sign Lee in the off season for a 1 year or two or sign possibly Adam Dunn. Call Cashner up later this season, too.

Jimbo should have signed Adam Dunn two seasons ago instead of that abortion Milton Bradley... Could you imagine Adam Dunn hitting in Wrigley ? The guy would have 50 HR a year no problem...

And im all for a fire sale at the deadline... I love Lilly but if we can get some young talent out of him, i would trade him in a second.. Same thing goes for D.Lee (who we should have traded in the off season) and A-Ram.

1908_Cubs
05-07-2010, 11:10 AM
C-Patt wasnt rushed my ***. He was. He hit better than Castro at age 19, in the same level, like A LOT better than Castro ever did.

Patterson could hit major league hitting as proved by his 2003 season and his 2004 season where he had an 820 OPS half way through September of that year.

And in 2005 instead of sitting him a bit Dusty Baker just ruined him and then he was ran out of this town by fans who forgot all about 2003 and 2004.

Then there is Pie who is honestly just C-Patt light. Not as good with the bat not as good with the glove, but he was never "given the shot" here and now fans still love him even though he wasnt as good as Patterson.

Now we have Castro who is hitting well for the first time in his career and is being brought up for no reason. Its like they didnt learn with Patterson who was better than Castro at age 19. Castro is hitting a little better at age 20 though in the tiny sample size.

This is literally the worst move the organization has made in a long time. This is dumb dumb dumb, but I guess our 2B tandem is terrible right now, but its not like thats the only bad part of this team.

Now you guys gone and got Po all mad talkin' bout Patterson.

poodski
05-07-2010, 11:11 AM
Well before his injury Pie was doing awfully good in Baltimore. I'd say the jury is still out on him. But definitely true of Corey Patterson. But then he had a major injury too, and before that he was on his way to the All Star game.

Yeah those 22 PA are really telling of Pie this year.

Pie is just awful he had four months last year below 755 OPS, three of those below 700.

Diehdcubsfan2
05-07-2010, 11:12 AM
This is the right move. This team isn't going anywhere, Castro clearly is beyond the level of AA. Scouts and the numbers agree, Castro is *basically* ready. Lets just hope Lou doesn't do something stupid like lead him off in his first start like he did with Pie. Just bat him 8th for a month, let him get his feet wet. He's going to be the starting SS next year, why bring him up in 2 months when you can bring him up now? Let him get as much playing time as possible.

This team is done. Done zo. Forget it. Calling up Castro is the right move. Lee, Fukudome, Lilly, and Silva (hopefully Silva continues to be mediocre) should all be moved @ the deadline. Let Tracy/Nady platoon @ 1B for the year. Hopefully Colvin can do something in RF, if not, then go ahead and make a push for Jayson Werth or Carl Crawford in the off season, and get room to make a run at Cliff Lee also. Maybe re sign Lee in the off season for a 1 year or two or sign possibly Adam Dunn. Call Cashner up later this season, too.

This is you panicked and angry with the Cubs getting swept, if this was last week you would not say this. truth be told, we have no idea what kind of team the Cubs have, on paper they are top notch, on the field they are inconsistent. What will push. The pen is getting better, Lee is hitting better. Ram will start hitting eventually. I like trading expiring contracts and selling high on players, but they Cubs have to much talent to do that, Maybe by the break we can tell what kind of team this is, but now its a toss up. That and every player has a no Trade clause.

BDawk4Prez
05-07-2010, 11:13 AM
I am so glad that Pittsurgh would never do anything like this.

Garrrr!!

Diehdcubsfan2
05-07-2010, 11:16 AM
We knew about this for weeks, we should be past the depression stage.

BUD Bleachers
05-07-2010, 11:16 AM
This is the right move. This team isn't going anywhere, Castro clearly is beyond the level of AA. Scouts and the numbers agree, Castro is *basically* ready. Lets just hope Lou doesn't do something stupid like lead him off in his first start like he did with Pie. Just bat him 8th for a month, let him get his feet wet. He's going to be the starting SS next year, why bring him up in 2 months when you can bring him up now? Let him get as much playing time as possible.

This team is done. Done zo. Forget it. Calling up Castro is the right move. Lee, Fukudome, Lilly, and Silva (hopefully Silva continues to be mediocre) should all be moved @ the deadline. Let Tracy/Nady platoon @ 1B for the year. Hopefully Colvin can do something in RF, if not, then go ahead and make a push for Jayson Werth or Carl Crawford in the off season, and get room to make a run at Cliff Lee also. Maybe re sign Lee in the off season for a 1 year or two or sign possibly Adam Dunn. Call Cashner up later this season, too.

You wouldn't be making this statement if the Cubs didn't get swept by the Pirates.

It sucks, I know, but they're not done yet. I'm not making excuses, but the longevity of the season is still on their side.

This is a very expensive team, and whether or not you, me, we believe they should blow it up; it simply will not happen.

I'm just going to remind some of you of one point. Within one year, we locked in Ramirez, Zambrano, and Soriano. Many of you pined to see Ramirez and Zambrano re-signed.

Now look at them. Those three guys haven't been consistent, for whatever reasons, and it's their long-term deals that are miring this ball club. Same old story. Be careful what you wish for and how you hedge your bets.

Giving up Lee, Fukudome, Lilly, and Silva, as Strife here mentions, would be giving up the guys that have been bright spots over the years, or at least this year with Fukudome and Silva.

The real issues have been with "The Big 3" on this team. They simply have not performed well enough to earn their pay.

Soriano-Injured, all over the place. Can carry the team, and can equally sink them.

Ramirez-Getting old. Injured last year. A complete ZERO thus far. Heck, he hit better with one arm after he came back from injury than he has all this season.

Zambrano-Head case. His own worst enemy. Our "ace" is now our 8th inning set-up guy. Enough said.

Guys, I'm not saying panic. I'm not saying pack it in for the season. All I'm saying is; the players simply are not consistently performing for this team.

Lou, for all of his shortcomings is NOT the problem. Does he need to be the sacrificial lamb soon if this crap continues? YES! Why? If the season is going to hell, and a rebuild is in order, then it's time for the Sandberg Era, just like the Starlin Castro Era.

If ANYTHING, Hendry must go. He's created this situation. He's on the hook to take the fall as well.

The Cubs aren't really an enigma as much as you might think; they're simply their own worst enemy.

Cubs420
05-07-2010, 11:17 AM
C-Patt wasnt rushed my ***. He was. He hit better than Castro at age 19, in the same level, like A LOT better than Castro ever did.

Patterson could hit major league hitting as proved by his 2003 season and his 2004 season where he had an 820 OPS half way through September of that year.

And in 2005 instead of sitting him a bit Dusty Baker just ruined him and then he was ran out of this town by fans who forgot all about 2003 and 2004.

Then there is Pie who is honestly just C-Patt light. Not as good with the bat not as good with the glove, but he was never "given the shot" here and now fans still love him even though he wasnt as good as Patterson.

Now we have Castro who is hitting well for the first time in his career and is being brought up for no reason. Its like they didnt learn with Patterson who was better than Castro at age 19. Castro is hitting a little better at age 20 though in the tiny sample size.

This is literally the worst move the organization has made in a long time. This is dumb dumb dumb, but I guess our 2B tandem is terrible right now, but its not like thats the only bad part of this team.

1. And what has he done since then ? The guy had 3 good months in a cubs uniform and everything else was just average... He couldn't even make it with Baltimore...

2. What are you talking about ? The kid has hit the cover off the ball in every level he has been in. Including AA and spring training... IMO im more worried about his defense then his bat.

Str1fe5
05-07-2010, 11:19 AM
C-Patt wasnt rushed my ***. He was. He hit better than Castro at age 19, in the same level, like A LOT better than Castro ever did.

Patterson could hit major league hitting as proved by his 2003 season and his 2004 season where he had an 820 OPS half way through September of that year.

And in 2005 instead of sitting him a bit Dusty Baker just ruined him and then he was ran out of this town by fans who forgot all about 2003 and 2004.

Then there is Pie who is honestly just C-Patt light. Not as good with the bat not as good with the glove, but he was never "given the shot" here and now fans still love him even though he wasnt as good as Patterson.

Now we have Castro who is hitting well for the first time in his career and is being brought up for no reason. Its like they didnt learn with Patterson who was better than Castro at age 19. Castro is hitting a little better at age 20 though in the tiny sample size.

This is literally the worst move the organization has made in a long time. This is dumb dumb dumb, but I guess our 2B tandem is terrible right now, but its not like thats the only bad part of this team.

No, Carlos Zambrano to the bullpen was easily the dumbest move of the last 20 years by this franchise. Calling up a 20 year old who has been raking for the better part of the last year and who everyone, and I mean *everyone* says has got a plus plus glove that is MLB ready at this point, is not close to dumb.

As far as Pie, he was worth 1.2 WAR last year in 280 PA. Projected over a full season that's about 2.5 WAR. That's hardly terrible. he hit .265/.325/.435 for the Orioles last year while playing a very good LF. If you moved him to CF he'd be even more valuable. Its entirely possible he needs a platoon partner, just like Fukudome, but that hardly means he sucks. And as far as Patterson goes, he was .265/.320/.450 in 2004, not all that much better than Felix Pie in 2009, although he clearly didn't have a problem hitting LHP. And then he was terrible for the rest of his career. You can't say that half a season pre major injury and a decent following season followed by 4 successive years of absolute crap makes him a great player that just never got a chance. The guy is a career .252./.290/.404 hitter. Corey Patterson just sucks. He might have been something had he not gotten hurt, but some guys just never find a level of consistency to be an everyday major league hitter. Like Garret Atkins.

weneedpitching
05-07-2010, 11:19 AM
That would be a terrible trade for us..

We can't lose Mr. Scrappy.

You guys are right....especially for that lazy showboat, Pujols...

poodski
05-07-2010, 11:22 AM
Now you guys gone and got Po all mad talkin' bout Patterson.

Yeah I actually have to vent on PSD since Doug and Strife arent on AIM.

But I do hate how people say Patterson sucked or wasn't completely ****ed over by this organization. Patterson is still probably better than some CFers out there and with how people are going to defense I find it amazing that he isnt playing for someone.

No he isnt going to be fantastic but he would be a top 5 defensive CFer and most likely a 2 or so WAR over a full season still to this day.

Oh well I guess. I could maybe build a team as good as the Cubs with people who dont have jobs right now.

weneedpitching
05-07-2010, 11:22 AM
This is the right move. This team isn't going anywhere, Castro clearly is beyond the level of AA. Scouts and the numbers agree, Castro is *basically* ready. Lets just hope Lou doesn't do something stupid like lead him off in his first start like he did with Pie. Just bat him 8th for a month, let him get his feet wet. He's going to be the starting SS next year, why bring him up in 2 months when you can bring him up now? Let him get as much playing time as possible.

This team is done. Done zo. Forget it. Calling up Castro is the right move. Lee, Fukudome, Lilly, and Silva (hopefully Silva continues to be mediocre) should all be moved @ the deadline. Let Tracy/Nady platoon @ 1B for the year. Hopefully Colvin can do something in RF, if not, then go ahead and make a push for Jayson Werth or Carl Crawford in the off season, and get room to make a run at Cliff Lee also. Maybe re sign Lee in the off season for a 1 year or two or sign possibly Adam Dunn. Call Cashner up later this season, too.


There are 133 games left.

Matchstckman
05-07-2010, 11:24 AM
Why not wait just a month or so for a trade market to develop around Theriot? Why on May 7th?

poodski
05-07-2010, 11:25 AM
1. And what has he done since then ? The guy had 3 good months in a cubs uniform and everything else was just average... He couldn't even make it with Baltimore...

2. What are you talking about ? The kid has hit the cover off the ball in every level he has been in. Including AA and spring training... IMO im more worried about his defense then his bat.

1. He had a good year and a half with the Cubs. Struggled in 2005 and was never really given a chance again. Much like Cedeno in 2006. They were never the same again after basically never being given a chance to sit or go and work on things.

2. I hardly think a guy that couldnt slug 400 last year would be what I would call "tearing the cover off the ball"

ReJo
05-07-2010, 11:26 AM
You guys are right....especially for that lazy showboat, Pujols...

Speaking of Pujols he did pretty good after being rushed to the big leagues at the age of 19 with only 1 season at single A under his belt.

poodski
05-07-2010, 11:26 AM
No, Carlos Zambrano to the bullpen was easily the dumbest move of the last 20 years by this franchise. Calling up a 20 year old who has been raking for the better part of the last year and who everyone, and I mean *everyone* says has got a plus plus glove that is MLB ready at this point, is not close to dumb.

I completely disagree that that is the worst, but yeah it was dumb, but we did need a RH in the pen, and the other 4 starters were pitching amazing.

Diehdcubsfan2
05-07-2010, 11:33 AM
I should really stop talking baseball with my uncle. He wants Ram to be benched for Theriot.

Cubs420
05-07-2010, 11:36 AM
1. He had a good year and a half with the Cubs. Struggled in 2005 and was never really given a chance again. Much like Cedeno in 2006. They were never the same again after basically never being given a chance to sit or go and work on things.

2. I hardly think a guy that couldnt slug 400 last year would be what I would call "tearing the cover off the ball"

I don't care what his slugging percentage was at the age of 19, the kid can flat out hit...

As of last night he was batting .376 with 8 doubles, 5 triples and 20 RBI's (pretty damn impressive for only having 1 HR) Not to shabby for a 20 year old in the hardest level of the minors...

Vandelay16
05-07-2010, 11:36 AM
Lineup prediction for tonight

1. Theriot
2. Fukudome
3. Lee
4. Byrd
5. Soriano or Colvin
6. Ramirez
7. Soto
8. Castro
9. Silva

Or maybe Lou puts Castro in the 2 hole.

ReJo
05-07-2010, 11:38 AM
Why not wait just a month or so for a trade market to develop around Theriot? Why on May 7th?

Because on the 7th day God made Starlin Castro

hrubes20
05-07-2010, 11:39 AM
Why on Earth are they promoting Castro? Is he going to magically get Aramis and D-Lee to start driving in runs again? Is he single-handedly going to get all the clutch hits we need per game? Is he going to also pitch in the 7th and 8th innings of games?


I really would like to know their rationale here.

poodski
05-07-2010, 11:39 AM
http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/castro-called-to-cubs/

couple exerts:


I can find 27 examples of a middle infielder debuting in the Major Leagues at 20, but just 7 examples in the last 30 years: Wally Backman, Roberto Alomar, Wil Cordero, Luis Castillo, Jose Reyes, Jose Lopez and Elvis Andrus. Of that group, only Andrus and Castillo made the jump, and Castillo would be returned to Triple-A for parts of the next two seasons. The Cubs are in rare, but not uncharted, territory with this aggressive promotion of an elite talent. On Monday, I plan to further investigate whether this is any effect of a prospect being “rushed” by jumping Triple-A.


However this is portrayed by people, the Cubs did not call up Castro on a whim. Whether the thinking behind the move is misguided will be a consistent point of discussion during Castro’s tenure on the north side, and it will begin with the wins and losses this team sees as a result of their middle infield play this season. If Castro doesn’t have a .330 wOBA and +5 UZR/150 defense, then I really can’t justify what Jim Hendry is trying to do here. As I said, the benchmark has been set.

Max Power
05-07-2010, 11:41 AM
Somewhat reminiscent of the Cubs calling up Pie to 'create a spark' the day after Z beat the crap out of Barrett and Murton dropped an easy flyball in 07.
The team did take off after that. Pie had nothing to do with it, but still.

BDawk4Prez
05-07-2010, 11:41 AM
Why not wait just a month or so for a trade market to develop around Theriot? Why on May 7th?

Because he wanted to **** with Bdawk4Prez on his birthday.


Because on the 7th day (of May) God made BDawk4Prez

Fixed

Paints
05-07-2010, 11:46 AM
Speaking of Pujols he did pretty good after being rushed to the big leagues at the age of 19 with only 1 season at single A under his belt.

It was the roids...Probably still is

Mell413
05-07-2010, 11:51 AM
I don't get this. I get that Fonty's power has disappeared, but our middle infield is not the problem IMO. The major problem is our corner infielders being worthless right now. Most of the lineup is hitting except for those 2 and our starting pitching is fine. Our bullpen which was bad at the beginning is stabilizing.

If he plays everyday I can stomach it I guess. Maybe they can sell high on Theriot now.

CubbieSteve
05-07-2010, 11:52 AM
Because he wanted to **** with Bdawk4Prez on his birthday.



Fixed

Happy Birthday BDawk! Gaaaaarrrrr, have a bootyfull birthday!

croce_99
05-07-2010, 11:54 AM
If he's called up now, then he better play 5 days a week. As simple as that.

Ron!n
05-07-2010, 12:00 PM
If he's called up now, then he better play 5 days a week. As simple as that.
This. Honestly, if Lou benches him after a week, heck 2 weeks then im going to have to call a hit on the senile gimp.

As far as this move goes its kind of meh. Calling him up now means he definitely Super-Two's. The team could use a spark but i dont think its worth a full year of Castro down the road.

poodski
05-07-2010, 12:02 PM
As far as this move goes its kind of meh. Calling him up now means he definitely Super-Two's. The team could use a spark but i dont think its worth a full year of Castro down the road.

This absolutely this.

CubsRule08
05-07-2010, 12:03 PM
I don't understand this move unless they say what the corresponding move is.

hrubes20
05-07-2010, 12:06 PM
This absolutely this.

Actually, in the fangraphs article, it mentioned that it appears the Cubs waited the right amount of time, and that we will still have Castro under control for 2016. He'll be a super 2, yes, but that just means he gets paid more, not that a full year of service time will be used up.

poodski
05-07-2010, 12:09 PM
Actually, in the fangraphs article, it mentioned that it appears the Cubs waited the right amount of time, and that we will still have Castro under control for 2016. He'll be a super 2, yes, but that just means he gets paid more, not that a full year of service time will be used up.

Yeah but he is gonna get pricey quick, thats more what I am talking about.

croce_99
05-07-2010, 12:11 PM
Yeah but he is gonna get pricey quick, thats more what I am talking about.

Cubs like throwing money around :laugh2:

MrPoon
05-07-2010, 12:12 PM
Ken_Rosenthal Confirming Enrique Rojas report: Castro joining #Cubs tonight. Theriot to 2B. That's what getting swept by #Pirates will do. #MLB

its still early
05-07-2010, 12:15 PM
should be a lot of fun to watch.

ReJo
05-07-2010, 12:30 PM
Because he wanted to **** with Bdawk4Prez on his birthday.



Fixed

God made Starlin Castro
Bdawk4Prez was made by alcohol and his dad not being able to pull out in time:p
Happy Birthday:D

Cubsfan365
05-07-2010, 12:34 PM
Is Starlin going to be the youngest player in the MLB? He just turned 20 in March, and is about seven months younger than Jason Heyward.

giventofly
05-07-2010, 12:40 PM
I don't see why you guys have such a large problem with this. As long as he's playing every day or every 5 out of 6 games (absolutely mandatory), I don't see why we can't get a young player some major league experience on a failing team. And yes, this team is failing, no matter how many stats we can name to oppose it.

gocubs2118
05-07-2010, 12:43 PM
The part I love the most about this is it moves Fontenot to the role he thrived in during the 2008 season. Being a backup and getting about 300 at bats. To me, he isn't a full time player.

THE_G.O.A.T.
05-07-2010, 12:45 PM
nothing like throwing a hail mary on May 7th..

cowboydoc45
05-07-2010, 12:47 PM
nothing like throwing a hail mary on May 7th..

How is this a "hail mary" in any way? Yes it is a pretty major move, but it isn't a "do or die" type thing. If we had traded one of, or a group of our prospects on a washed up BP arm, that would qualify as a hail mary. This is just going long...

NORTH10
05-07-2010, 12:48 PM
This should be fun...gives the team a spark no doubt. It gives them some more speed on the base paths as well. The team got more athletic.

theSPECIALKID
05-07-2010, 12:49 PM
I like this. I think Starlin is gonna give us the spark we need.

gocubs2118
05-07-2010, 12:51 PM
Sucklin Casblow!!

WCF23
05-07-2010, 01:05 PM
Don't know if someone already said this, but Vitters (who should have started at AA anyway) and Cashner were both jumped up a level as well. Seems like a positioning strategy. Even if it is a panic response to a bad series.

I personally would like to see Castro bat with protection in the order. So 7th would probably be ideal. Maybe go with something like Fukudome, Lee, Soto, ARam, Byrd, Soriano, Castro and Riot/Fonty against right handed pitching.

But agree with him getting, at minimum, 5 starts a week.

AddisonStation
05-07-2010, 01:10 PM
Sucklin Casblow!!

He definitely isn't good.. What are we thinking!

jodydavis
05-07-2010, 01:14 PM
Pie and Patterson weren't rushed. Pie didn't get consistent playing time and they gave up on him too early. Patterson just couldn't hit major league pitching.

Castro may be young but he's definitely ready. He has nothing more to prove in AA.

Both were rushed in my opinion. Neither had a concept of the strike zone and while Patterson got by for a while, pitchers figured him out. Pie got plenty of chances, he has just about sucked his way out of baseball because he sure didn't do anything with a chance in a no pressure situation in Baltimore.

If players are going to be good they can hit decently right away and show improvement. Let's hope Castro is ready, I'd like to have seen him at AAA as well for a little bit just to see if he can hit the guys who are closer to the Majors who probably have a little more control than AA. Hopefully the Cubs don't screw up this prospect as well. I do agree he has nothing left to prove at AA.

Jilly Bohnson
05-07-2010, 01:17 PM
Wow, the reactions in this thread are way over the top. Is this a little early? Sure, maybe. But on the other hand he has a .332/.384/.482 line at AA over the past two years, and .376/.421/.569 line this year. Not to mention he dominated in the AFL, which is basically a collection of all the best major league ready prospects in the game. The MLE for his career line at AA is .279/.322/.399, which along with plus defense would make him a pretty good player.

And people keep on bringing up Pie and Patterson, but Starlin's a whole different creature. You know why? One word: Contact. Starlin Castro can hit a breaking ball, and perhaps more importantly, can lay off of a breaking ball. Starlin should, at the very least, provide an empty batting average with plus defense, which as a shortstop is enough to make him a reasonably productive player.

Would I have liked him to have another month or two at Tenn? Yes, yes I would have. Is this something worth getting upset over? No, it's not.

gocubs2118
05-07-2010, 01:20 PM
He definitely isn't good.. What are we thinking!

I don't know but I just picked him up in my keeper league :shrug:.

At any rate, our 2nd baseman this year have put up a collective OPS of .656. So, it really take much for Castro to out perform them I don't think.

hrubes20
05-07-2010, 01:21 PM
Both were rushed in my opinion. Neither had a concept of the strike zone and while Patterson got by for a while, pitchers figured him out. Pie got plenty of chances, he has just about sucked his way out of baseball because he sure didn't do anything with a chance in a no pressure situation in Baltimore.

If players are going to be good they can hit decently right away and show improvement. Let's hope Castro is ready, I'd like to have seen him at AAA as well for a little bit just to see if he can hit the guys who are closer to the Majors who probably have a little more control than AA. Hopefully the Cubs don't screw up this prospect as well. I do agree he has nothing left to prove at AA.

I would argue that he actually does have something still to prove at AA. And that would be his ability to maintain an acceptable walk rate. An extended showing of power would be nice as well, but he gets a pass right now, as he's a very young 20 year old. His contact skills are through the roof, but if he can't keep walking, or if the power doesn't develop as planned, we're looking at Luis Castillo with less speed.

s2obed
05-07-2010, 01:25 PM
I'm sure Castro will be starting everyday with Theriot moving to second.

He should be fun to watch. The kid has hit at every level including the AZ fall league (wasn't he one of the youngest ones there?) and he also hit in spring training. Give the kid a shot.

giventofly
05-07-2010, 01:25 PM
I would argue that he actually does have something still to prove at AA. And that would be his ability to maintain an acceptable walk rate. An extended showing of power would be nice as well, but he gets a pass right now, as he's a very young 20 year old. His contact skills are through the roof, but if he can't keep walking, or if the power doesn't develop as planned, we're looking at Luis Castillo with less speed.
Unless your name is Joe Mauer, players tend to take a lot less walks when they are sporting a .380 batting average.

MJ-BULLS
05-07-2010, 01:26 PM
What i like more about this, is that Theriot moves to second and Castro to SS.

Better yet, Fontenot goes to the bench.

BDawk4Prez
05-07-2010, 01:26 PM
This team is really going places.

Kirel
05-07-2010, 01:26 PM
I would argue that he actually does have something still to prove at AA. And that would be his ability to maintain an acceptable walk rate. An extended showing of power would be nice as well, but he gets a pass right now, as he's a very young 20 year old. His contact skills are through the roof, but if he can't keep walking, or if the power doesn't develop as planned, we're looking at Luis Castillo with less speed.
Frankly, both are likely to develop in the bigs as they are in the minors. Castro has reached a point where a productive major league career is as likely as it can be. If he ends up Luis Castillo with less speed he's still useful and it's unlikely AAA would have chagned his destiny much, we'll have to see how he does.

I'd be ok with .300/.340/.380 with plus shortstop defense. It's not world beating, not the Hanley Ramirez\Derek Jeter people want, but it's still 6-7 years of quality shortstop production at controlled prices.

Shunoo
05-07-2010, 01:30 PM
What's Starlin's number going to be?

Jilly Bohnson
05-07-2010, 01:31 PM
Unless your name is Joe Mauer, players tend to take a lot less walks when they are sporting a .380 batting average.

Anecdotally it's always seemed to me that most guys don't walk when they're hot(huge exception:Soriano). And following the gamelogs, and yes I realize this is way too small a sample on which to make an accurate judgement, Castro started walking when he cooled off, so he would seem to fit in with the majority in that regard.

BDawk4Prez
05-07-2010, 01:31 PM
what's starlin's number going to be?

21

WorldChamps1908
05-07-2010, 01:33 PM
:speechless:

We......agree.....on.......something........

well im rarely in here these days, but yes its a miracle!

poodski
05-07-2010, 01:35 PM
21

10

AddisonStation
05-07-2010, 01:36 PM
I don't know but I just picked him up in my keeper league :shrug:.

At any rate, our 2nd baseman this year have put up a collective OPS of .656. So, it really take much for Castro to out perform them I don't think.

I think he'll be just fine.. Pretty excited to watch tonight's game... I hope I can anyway.

giventofly
05-07-2010, 01:36 PM
10
2110

Jilly Bohnson
05-07-2010, 01:37 PM
2110

3.1415926....

Oh wait, that was the last guy

Ron!n
05-07-2010, 01:37 PM
Anecdotally it's always seemed to me that most guys don't walk when they're hot(huge exception:Soriano). And following the gamelogs, and yes I realize this is way too small a sample on which to make an accurate judgement, Castro started walking when he cooled off, so he would seem to fit in with the majority in that regard.
Speaking of Joe Mauer, Geovany Soto is the best hitting C in the majors this year.

gocubs2118
05-07-2010, 01:37 PM
2110

2118

Ron!n
05-07-2010, 01:38 PM
3.1415926....

Oh wait, that was the last guy
He needs to be one of the Lost numbers.

AddisonStation
05-07-2010, 01:38 PM
10

23

AddisonStation
05-07-2010, 01:39 PM
3.1415926....

Oh wait, that was the last guy

:laugh:

Cubs420
05-07-2010, 01:39 PM
unless your name is joe mauer, players tend to take a lot less walks when they are sporting a .380 batting average.

+1

CubbieSteve
05-07-2010, 01:39 PM
23

8--->

Jilly Bohnson
05-07-2010, 01:39 PM
Speaking of Joe Mauer, Geovany Soto is the best hitting C in the majors this year.

I'm excited to see what he does out of the 8 spot now. Let's see exactly how much of that new patience is legit.

Jilly Bohnson
05-07-2010, 01:41 PM
He needs to be one of the Lost numbers.

Well 16, 23, and 42 are taken so his options are 4, 18, and 15.

scrubs101
05-07-2010, 01:41 PM
I love how people just assume that if a player is called up and doesn't perform, its 100% because he was called up too early. How about maybe that player just wasn't good enough? How about if he was called up 3 years later, he would still not be good enough? Is that a thought?

Talent is talent. How's that 20-year old Heyward kid doing in ATL? Not good enough to be in the bigs?

PunkShizzle
05-07-2010, 01:41 PM
Hell, we should probably lock him up long term now too.

10yrs/$150mil sound reasonable?

poodski
05-07-2010, 01:43 PM
Well 16, 23, and 42 are taken so his options are 4, 18, and 15.

I hope he takes 18. Thats always been my favorite of the LOST numbers.

hrubes20
05-07-2010, 01:43 PM
Unless your name is Joe Mauer, players tend to take a lot less walks when they are sporting a .380 batting average.

Agreed, but what about the rest of his career when he wasn't hitting .380? He hit around .300 during his entire minor league career, yet his walk rate sat in the 6% range. Jilly made a very good point, in that Castro appeared to be taking more walks once he cooled down from his torrid start to the year, so hopefully he has really turned a corner in that regard.

I'm not going to get my hopes too terribly high on Castro, but I'd like to see a .285/.335/.400 or better line out of him for his rookie year.

Jilly Bohnson
05-07-2010, 01:44 PM
I love how people just assume that if a player is called up and doesn't perform, its 100% because he was called up too early. How about maybe that player just wasn't good enough? How about if he was called up 3 years later, he would still not be good enough? Is that a thought?

Talent is talent. How's that 20-year old Heyward kid doing in ATL? Not good enough to be in the bigs?

Also, Heyward had even less time in the high minors than Castro. If a guy is ready then he is ready, age is just a number.

Jilly Bohnson
05-07-2010, 01:44 PM
I hope he takes 18. Thats always been my favorite of the LOST numbers.

Dammit, typo, that's supposed to be 8. :o

BDawk4Prez
05-07-2010, 01:45 PM
10


2110


2118


23

1908

Jilly Bohnson
05-07-2010, 01:46 PM
Also, Matchstckman and I have decided Starlin's nickname is Tayne...so keep that going I guess.

AddisonStation
05-07-2010, 01:47 PM
8--->

Someone else said 10 soo....

CubbieSteve
05-07-2010, 01:54 PM
Also, Matchstckman and I have decided Starlin's nickname is Tayne...so keep that going I guess.

x2

Hopefully we see some Flarhgunnstow's outta Starlin this year

gocubs2118
05-07-2010, 01:55 PM
I thought his nickname was going to be Sucklin Casblow?

Jilly Bohnson
05-07-2010, 01:57 PM
x2

Hopefully we see some Flarhgunnstow's outta Starlin this year

If he does a hat wobble, even just incidentally, I will completely lose it.

ReJo
05-07-2010, 02:06 PM
Call up Cashner while were at it. He could be the Cubs set up man right now

Doogolas
05-07-2010, 02:06 PM
Call up Cashner while were at it. He could be the Cubs set up man right now

Gotta wait till June so he has enough innings to hit 150+ with fall ball by year's end.

redwhitenblue
05-07-2010, 02:08 PM
Eek, this is a scary situation.

ReJo
05-07-2010, 02:14 PM
Eek, this is a scary situation.

Scary for the Reds.
Homer Bailey is ******** his pants right now.

redwhitenblue
05-07-2010, 02:15 PM
Scary for the Reds.
Homer Bailey is ******** his pants right now.
At least he gets to start vs the Reds on the road. If he goes 0-fer in the series, he can get his first boo in his first Wrigley appearance!

zambo4president
05-07-2010, 02:23 PM
I don't agree with this, but we'll see

Diehdcubsfan2
05-07-2010, 02:27 PM
My uncle is starting to really make me made.

He really really wants to see Baker play full time at third now, with Ram on the bench.

He also wants to see if Colvin can play 3rd.

gocubs2118
05-07-2010, 02:28 PM
My uncle is starting to really make me made.

He really really wants to see Baker play full time at third now, with Ram on the bench.

He also wants to see if Colvin can play 3rd.

Well Colvin has to play somewhere since he can't play SS anymore!

cowboydoc45
05-07-2010, 02:30 PM
My uncle is starting to really make me made.

He really really wants to see Baker play full time at third now, with Ram on the bench.

He also wants to see if Colvin can play 3rd.

:facepalm: this is an epic fail on his part...

Grifter
05-07-2010, 02:32 PM
So, I'm not even going to get to see Castro's debut tonight, because for some reason, MLB thinks Asheville, NC is in the Cincinnati market! I hate MLB's f'ed up territories.

weneedpitching
05-07-2010, 02:33 PM
My uncle is starting to really make me made.

He really really wants to see Baker play full time at third now, with Ram on the bench.

He also wants to see if Colvin can play 3rd.

Jeff Baker = Conan O'Brien

http://insidethehumidor.files.wordpress.com/2009/03/jeff-baker.jpg

vs.

http://conantonight.com/blog/wp-content/gallery/conan/conanobrien.jpg

Diehdcubsfan2
05-07-2010, 02:36 PM
Jeff Baker = Conan O'Brien

http://insidethehumidor.files.wordpress.com/2009/03/jeff-baker.jpg

vs.

http://conantonight.com/blog/wp-content/gallery/conan/conanobrien.jpg

haha damn, their facial bones match up pretty well

scrubs101
05-07-2010, 02:44 PM
Call up Cashner while were at it. He could be the Cubs set up man right now

Him and Vitters both got moved up today...

Acronym
05-07-2010, 02:56 PM
********. But what do we have to lose at this point? At least now I don't have to see Chad Tracy's incompetent mug any more.

By the way, am I the only one whose screen slows to a goddamn crawl when looking at anybody who has the animated hug sig's posts? It's awful.

Grifter
05-07-2010, 02:56 PM
Him and Vitters both got moved up today...
Makes me wonder if they are planning an overhaul if things don't pick up soon.

ReJo
05-07-2010, 02:57 PM
At least he gets to start vs the Reds on the road. If he goes 0-fer in the series, he can get his first boo in his first Wrigley appearance!

Exactly, get him in there on the road in a hitters ballpark against a bad Reds pitching staff. Get him some hits and some confidence before heading to Wrigley to play in front of the home crowd.
It's better than throwing him into the fire vs a Jimenez or Halladay in a couple weeks when we play the Rockies and Phillies back to back.

turnaround3
05-07-2010, 02:57 PM
This kind of throws a kink in my whole acquire Uggla plan.

weneedpitching
05-07-2010, 02:58 PM
This kind of throws a kink in my whole acquire Uggla plan.

Uhhh...no...Theriot for Pujols...Pujols for Uggla

JayBandit
05-07-2010, 03:14 PM
Oh yay. Lets rush another one of our top prospects. You'd think, "hey it didn't work with Pie and Patterson maybe this time we should be careful".

Then. This happens.

What determines if we're "rushing" a prospect? I mean, guys used to play in the majors much younger than 20 for longer than we've been alive, but we freak out now like everyone is so fragile. As long as he gets to play every single day and not benched 3-4 days a week, I think he'll get just as much benefit as he would in AAA. If his mind is so fragile that he can't accept a bit of trouble with the major league pitching, perhaps he shouldn't be in the game?

redwhitenblue
05-07-2010, 03:15 PM
So, I'm not even going to get to see Castro's debut tonight, because for some reason, MLB thinks Asheville, NC is in the Cincinnati market! I hate MLB's f'ed up territories.
I don't get to see it, but only because my work decided to have a meeting from 6-7 tonight.

chicagofan71
05-07-2010, 03:25 PM
YES I gotta say I'm really, really happy about this

chicagofan71
05-07-2010, 03:31 PM
This is the right move. This team isn't going anywhere, Castro clearly is beyond the level of AA. Scouts and the numbers agree, Castro is *basically* ready. Lets just hope Lou doesn't do something stupid like lead him off in his first start like he did with Pie. Just bat him 8th for a month, let him get his feet wet. He's going to be the starting SS next year, why bring him up in 2 months when you can bring him up now? Let him get as much playing time as possible.

This team is done. Done zo. Forget it. Calling up Castro is the right move. Lee, Fukudome, Lilly, and Silva (hopefully Silva continues to be mediocre) should all be moved @ the deadline. Let Tracy/Nady platoon @ 1B for the year. Hopefully Colvin can do something in RF, if not, then go ahead and make a push for Jayson Werth or Carl Crawford in the off season, and get room to make a run at Cliff Lee also. Maybe re sign Lee in the off season for a 1 year or two or sign possibly Adam Dunn. Call Cashner up later this season, too.

:speechless: Holy ****...someone finally agrees with me!

redwhitenblue
05-07-2010, 03:35 PM
Str1fe5.

I almost guarantee Castro bats 1 or 2. He's a MI, and that's apparently the only positions they hit in Lou's world.


I also am almost certain Lou has no idea that Castro is a very poor base stealer despite his speed, and will inevitably have a CS in this first series.

ReJo
05-07-2010, 03:36 PM
I don't get to see it, but only because my work decided to have a meeting from 6-7 tonight.

They don't have a TV at the donut shop?

gocubs2118
05-07-2010, 03:38 PM
Str1fe5.

I almost guarantee Castro bats 1 or 2. He's a MI, and that's apparently the only positions they hit in Lou's world.


I also am almost certain Lou has no idea that Castro is a very poor base stealer despite his speed, and will inevitably have a CS in this first series.

Which is why Fontenot has been batting 7th pretty much all season?

Ron!n
05-07-2010, 03:40 PM
Str1fe5.

I almost guarantee Castro bats 1 or 2. He's a MI, and that's apparently the only positions they hit in Lou's world.


I also am almost certain Lou has no idea that Castro is a very poor base stealer despite his speed, and will inevitably have a CS in this first series.
Lou's going to be happy with his new toy and try running it all over the place.

One question though, isnt Castro supposed to have plus speed but his instincts are bad?

redwhitenblue
05-07-2010, 03:40 PM
They don't have a TV at the donut shop?
Awards ceremony, and no.


At DD they do!

CubsFan/Realist
05-07-2010, 03:41 PM
Str1fe5.

I almost guarantee Castro bats 1 or 2. He's a MI, and that's apparently the only positions they hit in Lou's world.


I also am almost certain Lou has no idea that Castro is a very poor base stealer despite his speed, and will inevitably have a CS in this first series.

It's been reported he's batting 8th, but that was just the Cubs insider tweet, so idk how reliable that is...

I hope this wakes up our team a little bit, maybe Aram will get his head out of his *** and see that we also have a 3rd baseman in the minors that is about two more months of really good baseball away from replacing his ***, and yes, I am very concerned with Ramirez right now, he looks like absolute dog ****

redwhitenblue
05-07-2010, 03:42 PM
Which is why Fontenot has been batting 7th pretty much all season?
In 6 of Baker's 10 starts, he's hit 2nd.

Theriot's hit first.

If Fontenot had any more speed, I'm pretty comfortable saying he'd be hitting 2nd consistently.
One question though, isnt Castro supposed to have plus speed but his instincts are bad?
Yes.

Doogolas
05-07-2010, 03:48 PM
In 6 of Baker's 10 starts, he's hit 2nd.

Theriot's hit first.

If Fontenot had any more speed, I'm pretty comfortable saying he'd be hitting 2nd consistently.Yes.

Actually a misconception. His speed is average. It was talked about somewhere... but when they were timing people around the bases, he fell almost directly in the middle.

DamnGoat
05-07-2010, 03:49 PM
So what do we do with all these middle infielders then? Baker, Fontenot, Theriot, Castro seems like a little much to be carrying on a 25 man roster. Hopefully some kind of trade is in the works as well.

redwhitenblue
05-07-2010, 03:49 PM
Actually a misconception. His speed is average. It was talked about somewhere... but when they were timing people around the bases, he fell almost directly in the middle.
I don't think he has poor speed.

I said if he had any more, i.e. if he was seen as a speedy player a la Theriot, he'd be hitting 2 consistently.

JDIsMyGod23
05-07-2010, 03:50 PM
Also, Heyward had even less time in the high minors than Castro. If a guy is ready then he is ready, age is just a number.

Lawrence Taylor plans on using this defense.

redwhitenblue
05-07-2010, 03:50 PM
So what do we do with all these middle infielders then? Baker, Fontenot, Theriot, Castro seems like a little much to be carrying on a 25 man roster. Hopefully some kind of trade is in the works as well.
Baker becomes the backup 1B, 3B, 3rd 2B.

Doogolas
05-07-2010, 03:50 PM
I don't think he has poor speed.

I said if he had any more, i.e. if he was seen as a speedy player a la Theriot, he'd be hitting 2 consistently.

I'm talking about Castro.

redwhitenblue
05-07-2010, 03:51 PM
I'm talking about Castro.
Hmm...I'd have to see that article, because Castro grabs too many 3B's to have just average speed.

Doogolas
05-07-2010, 03:52 PM
Hmm...I'd have to see that article, because Castro grabs too many 3B's to have just average speed.

http://www.chicagonow.com/blogs/chicago-cubs-wrigley-bound/2009/12/afl-speed-scores-and-starlin-castro.html

There you go. I know it's disappointing to everyone but the kid isn't very fast. I assume he's faster than his scores indicated there. But he's not a speedster. At all.

CubsFan/Realist
05-07-2010, 03:53 PM
the good news about Castro batting 8th is it FINALLY gets Soto out of the 8 hole! wonder where Lou will put him?

Doogolas
05-07-2010, 03:54 PM
the good news about Castro batting 8th is it FINALLY gets Soto out of the 8 hole! wonder where Lou will put him?

Soto hit 7th yesterday I believe.

gocubs2118
05-07-2010, 03:54 PM
the good news about Castro batting 8th is it FINALLY gets Soto out of the 8 hole! wonder where Lou will put him?

9th, with the pitcher hitting 7th.

CubsFan/Realist
05-07-2010, 03:55 PM
9th, with the pitcher hitting 7th.

and Soriano back in the leadoff spot

CubsFan/Realist
05-07-2010, 03:56 PM
Soto hit 7th yesterday I believe.

Still, it keeps him out now

Ron!n
05-07-2010, 03:56 PM
http://www.chicagonow.com/blogs/chicago-cubs-wrigley-bound/2009/12/afl-speed-scores-and-starlin-castro.html

There you go. I know it's disappointing to everyone but the kid isn't very fast. I assume he's faster than his scores indicated there. But he's not a speedster. At all.
:(

Milnertime
05-07-2010, 04:00 PM
I'm really glad they're overreacting to the start of the season.

This fixes NOTHING that is wrong with this team. Nothing.

Doogolas
05-07-2010, 04:04 PM
Just so everybody knows, I don't think Castro is slow. He's probably fast. In fact his speed probably IS above average. I just think he's probably slow to accelerate. Which, in baseball, is going to kill you in everything but triples numbers. :shrug:

redwhitenblue
05-07-2010, 04:04 PM
http://www.chicagonow.com/blogs/chicago-cubs-wrigley-bound/2009/12/afl-speed-scores-and-starlin-castro.html

There you go. I know it's disappointing to everyone but the kid isn't very fast. I assume he's faster than his scores indicated there. But he's not a speedster. At all.
That article actually rates Castro below average, at a 40 when 50 is average.

Vitters ranks the slowest possible.

I have to question the timing done there, because Castro being below average speed and yet have a decent SB% and a high number of triples in the minors doesn't make sense. Even a smart runner still isn't going to leg out triples.

Diehdcubsfan2
05-07-2010, 04:06 PM
That article actually rates Castro below average, at a 40 when 50 is average.

Vitters ranks the slowest possible.

I have to question the timing done there, because Castro being below average speed and yet have a decent SB% and a high number of triples in the minors doesn't make sense. Even a smart runner still isn't going to leg out triples.

Maybe he is a slow starter and picks up speed later on.

How far do they run when they test them?

redwhitenblue
05-07-2010, 04:07 PM
Just so everybody knows, I don't think Castro is slow. He's probably fast. In fact his speed probably IS above average. I just think he's probably slow to accelerate. Which, in baseball, is going to kill you in everything but triples numbers. :shrug:
And doubles.


With slow acceleration, I wouldn't think his SB% would even be as high as it is.

redwhitenblue
05-07-2010, 04:07 PM
Maybe he is a slow starter and picks up speed later on.

How far do they run when they test them?
Home to first

croce_99
05-07-2010, 04:08 PM
Those of you that want to see his batting stance and swing, here is a short youtube clip from earlier this spring

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AqPJQiVYUTQ

He grounds out :(

Diehdcubsfan2
05-07-2010, 04:09 PM
Home to first

I guess maybe, do they test if he picks up speed or is it just one time at the end.

Jilly Bohnson
05-07-2010, 04:10 PM
I've always been under the impression it was Jeter speed. Not fast, but solidly above average. He's definitely not a 40 and Vitter is definitely not a 20. A 20 is a Molina. Vitters is probably a 40 and a Tayne's probably a 55 or a 60.

Diehardcub
05-07-2010, 04:20 PM
They don't have a TV at the donut shop?
:laugh:

Diehdcubsfan2
05-07-2010, 04:22 PM
I've always been under the impression it was Jeter speed. Not fast, but solidly above average. He's definitely not a 40 and Vitter is definitely not a 20. A 20 is a Molina. Vitters is probably a 40 and a Tayne's probably a 55 or a 60.

Did you really edit to enter Tayne

Captain Obvious
05-07-2010, 04:23 PM
Wow, I come home and see this... can't wait for tonights game now!

croce_99
05-07-2010, 04:24 PM
Did you really edit to enter Tayne

yes he did :laugh2:

YanksNats1987
05-07-2010, 04:25 PM
I'll be in Chicago and going to the game on Monday, will be cool to see Castro play.

gocubs2118
05-07-2010, 04:25 PM
I'll be in Chicago and going to the game on Monday, will be cool to see Castro play.

Be sure to boo him like everyone else will.

Jilly Bohnson
05-07-2010, 04:28 PM
Did you really edit to enter Tayne

Yeah, I got no sleep last night I'm running on fumes. Can't believe I got his name wrong.

Str1fe5
05-07-2010, 04:29 PM
Well, I guess whether this is a good idea or not really comes down to one question: Is Starlin Castro's last year or so of hitting been an indication that he is clearly more advanced than AA pitching (through last year's AA, the fall league, ST, and the first 6 weeks of the season), or is it really just a hot streak to start the year and he's more likely to come back down to earth? If its the former, then he clearly should be called up. If he's already advanced past AA, then he gets no benefit from just crushing the poor guys for another couple of months while the Cubs go with "proven" players in Fontenot and Baker. Going to AAA would probably be a waste too given that the general stuff he'd see in AAA would likely be worse than in AA. Most recent reports I've read say that Castro can play SS at the MLB level now, regardless of the stage of advancement his bat is at. Then again, its only May 7. Castro could have just had a hot stretch and he could use more time down in AA.

That's really all the minor leagues are for:

a) "show me what you can do": just throwing challenges at the player so that they can show you how good they are, until finally you've thrown enough hurdles that are higher and higher that you think the jump from where he is now to the majors is about as short as it can be.

b) teaching the player to be better. He gets better by playing against competition that is closer to his level but still challenging for him, and he is also getting hands on tutelage about the fundamentals of the game and how to play by world class coaching.

Castro has clearly shown he can crush AA level pitching. Whether or not htat his true level of talent is another question, but the sample is certainly sufficient to show that he *can* crush AA pitching. That skill is in there. As far as being taught the game, that's the million dollar question, isn't it.

We'll just have to wait and see.

chicagofan71
05-07-2010, 04:33 PM
:laugh2: at all the people who are like zomg we're OVERREACTING!!!!!

AllStar44
05-07-2010, 04:33 PM
This has probably been answered but I don't know much about Castro. Does he have speed?

Diehardcub
05-07-2010, 04:35 PM
Be sure to boo him like everyone else will.

If he doesn't come out right away and hit, expect most people on here to start calling him a bust. You know, despite the fact he just turned 20 a month ago. There will be a huge meltdown very quickly. We're going to hear about every game he doesn't get several hits.

In other news, why in the hell was Vitters called up to AA? Vitters can't even dominate high A ball yet. As least Castro has been dominate at his level.

Jilly Bohnson
05-07-2010, 04:35 PM
This has probably been answered but I don't know much about Castro. Does he have speed?

Yes, but he's not a burner. Probably not much faster than Theriot. Perfect world projection for him is more of a Jeter type shortstop than a Han-Ram or Elvis Andrus.

Doogolas
05-07-2010, 04:36 PM
I've always been under the impression it was Jeter speed. Not fast, but solidly above average. He's definitely not a 40 and Vitter is definitely not a 20. A 20 is a Molina. Vitters is probably a 40 and a Tayne's probably a 55 or a 60.

That's what I'd assume as well. There are a lot of things that factor in to that. Like he could have been very fatigued. I mean we're talking about a kid that had been playing with no break for what, almost a full calendar year?

Then there's the fact that he could have just had a couple bad runs. It was a tiny sample size. My point was just that he doesn't have great speed like people want to believe he does. And people shouldn't expect him to be running all over the place. Like you said, Jeter speed is far, far more likely.

Jilly Bohnson
05-07-2010, 04:37 PM
So I'm pretty sure he is, but can someone confirm for me: he's the youngest player in the league now, yes? And he probably will be until September.

Diehdcubsfan2
05-07-2010, 04:39 PM
So I'm pretty sure he is, but can someone confirm for me: he's the youngest player in the league now, yes? And he probably will be until September.


To lazy to look, but I remember that Reliever from the Mets was also 20. He had some good stuff. And he was the youngest.

gocubs2118
05-07-2010, 04:40 PM
You guys were all wrong. Castro will be wearing 13. The next Neifi Perez!

CubsFan/Realist
05-07-2010, 04:40 PM
He will officially wear number 13, lucky or unlucky? :shrug: lol

1908_Cubs
05-07-2010, 04:40 PM
That's what I'd assume as well. There are a lot of things that factor in to that. Like he could have been very fatigued. I mean we're talking about a kid that had been playing with no break for what, almost a full calendar year?

Then there's the fact that he could have just had a couple bad runs. It was a tiny sample size. My point was just that he doesn't have great speed like people want to believe he does. And people shouldn't expect him to be running all over the place. Like you said, Jeter speed is far, far more likely.

I don't expect him to be running everywhere. But that's because I expect at least 45 bombs out of Castro by the end of July with like, a .620 BA and a .700 OBP. Anything less and I'm going to boo that little bastard right out of Chicago.

Doogolas
05-07-2010, 04:40 PM
If he doesn't come out right away and hit, expect most people on here to start calling him a bust. You know, despite the fact he just turned 20 a month ago. There will be a huge meltdown very quickly. We're going to hear about every game he doesn't get several hits.

In other news, why in the hell was Vitters called up to AA? Vitters can't even dominate high A ball yet. As least Castro has been dominate at his level.

Given that the average age in High A ball is 22 and Vitters is 20, and the average line in that league gives something around a .715OPS or so, yeah, he's actually kicked some ***.

CubsFan/Realist
05-07-2010, 04:41 PM
You guys were all wrong. Castro will be wearing 13. The next Neifi Perez!

beat me to it ha ha, do you get the texts?

gocubs2118
05-07-2010, 04:44 PM
beat me to it ha ha, do you get the texts?

Nope. I typed his name into google and realized you can follow all the tweets about him. And about 3 of them came up saying his number would be 13.

windycityD
05-07-2010, 04:46 PM
Well, I guess whether this is a good idea or not really comes down to one question: Is Starlin Castro's last year or so of hitting been an indication that he is clearly more advanced than AA pitching (through last year's AA, the fall league, ST, and the first 6 weeks of the season), or is it really just a hot streak to start the year and he's more likely to come back down to earth? If its the former, then he clearly should be called up. If he's already advanced past AA, then he gets no benefit from just crushing the poor guys for another couple of months while the Cubs go with "proven" players in Fontenot and Baker. Going to AAA would probably be a waste too given that the general stuff he'd see in AAA would likely be worse than in AA. Most recent reports I've read say that Castro can play SS at the MLB level now, regardless of the stage of advancement his bat is at. Then again, its only May 7. Castro could have just had a hot stretch and he could use more time down in AA.

That's really all the minor leagues are for:

a) "show me what you can do": just throwing challenges at the player so that they can show you how good they are, until finally you've thrown enough hurdles that are higher and higher that you think the jump from where he is now to the majors is about as short as it can be.

b) teaching the player to be better. He gets better by playing against competition that is closer to his level but still challenging for him, and he is also getting hands on tutelage about the fundamentals of the game and how to play by world class coaching.

Castro has clearly shown he can crush AA level pitching. Whether or not htat his true level of talent is another question, but the sample is certainly sufficient to show that he *can* crush AA pitching. That skill is in there. As far as being taught the game, that's the million dollar question, isn't it.

We'll just have to wait and see.

Quite frankly, if he's hitting 8th in the line up, the direct impact on the line up is that Soto will no longer be hitting there, when he starts of course. If the idea were to develop Castro's hitting at all at this level, you would not hit him 8th, you'd hit him 7th with vet protection behind him. We'll certainly see how he is at the plate in regards to his patience, because he's going to see a steady diet of pitcher's pitches and breaking stuff hitting 8th.

The main reason this move was made was an attempt at distraction, pure and simple. The current roster is a combo of flawed & under-performing and the team is coming off of a really bad series sweep, by any standard you'd measure it. Castro's call up still does nothing to add production where we need it most- RBI out of the 3 and 4 spots in the line up. I wish him luck, but really, he's being put in a position to have the yo yo applied to him if he does not hit, b/c all this talk about improved defense wont wash at all if he fails at the plate. Lou will have him demoted.

Doogolas
05-07-2010, 04:46 PM
Dan Marino gives #13 two thumbs way, way up.

CubsFan/Realist
05-07-2010, 04:48 PM
Give it a week, where they can see how he will handle the pitching, and I fully expect Theriot to be traded if Castro is even remotely producing

gocubs2118
05-07-2010, 04:50 PM
I wonder if Castro will bring the Victory Hug to the infield?

zambo4president
05-07-2010, 04:51 PM
13 has always been my number

Captain Obvious
05-07-2010, 04:52 PM
13 has always been my number

Cool, want a cookie?

windycityD
05-07-2010, 04:54 PM
Give it a week, where they can see how he will handle the pitching, and I fully expect Theriot to be traded if Castro is even remotely producing

Traded where and for what? Keep in mind, Theriot is also our main lead off hitter. I'm not saying he should be hitting lead off or is ideally best suited for that role (he's not), but for Lou & the current roster, that's the deal.

Fontenot is the guy Hendry would try to sell high on. That said, Fontenot alone wont bring an arm for the pen back. You can say adios to either Parker or Stevens if you're talking a vet a righty of any legitimate impact.

Cubsfan365
05-07-2010, 04:55 PM
To lazy to look, but I remember that Reliever from the Mets was also 20. He had some good stuff. And he was the youngest.
That would be Mejia. He is 20 also, but he is 5 months older than Castro.

Diehardcub
05-07-2010, 04:55 PM
Given that the average age in High A ball is 22 and Vitters is 20, and the average line in that league gives something around a .715OPS or so, yeah, he's actually kicked some ***.

No he hasn't kicked any ***. And I never mentioned anything about his age. Is he doing OK for his age? Yea. Has he been dominant? No. Promoted? No

scrubs101
05-07-2010, 04:56 PM
That's what I'd assume as well. There are a lot of things that factor in to that. Like he could have been very fatigued. I mean we're talking about a kid that had been playing with no break for what, almost a full calendar year?

Then there's the fact that he could have just had a couple bad runs. It was a tiny sample size. My point was just that he doesn't have great speed like people want to believe he does. And people shouldn't expect him to be running all over the place. Like you said, Jeter speed is far, far more likely.

but seems to be quicker side to side than Jeter

quickness and speed are 2 different things

redwhitenblue
05-07-2010, 04:59 PM
Traded where and for what? Keep in mind, Theriot is also our main lead off hitter. I'm not saying he should be hitting lead off or is ideally best suited for that role (he's not), but for Lou & the current roster, that's the deal.

Fontenot is the guy Hendry would try to sell high on. That said, Fontenot alone wont bring an arm for the pen back. You can say adios to either Parker or Stevens if you're talking a vet a righty of any legitimate impact.
If we traded Theriot, we might finally put the correct guy at leadoff, Fukudome.

Doogolas
05-07-2010, 04:59 PM
No he hasn't kicked any ***.

Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. Wronnnnnng.

His OPS+ right now is like 115 and he's younger than most of his counterparts.

You are aware that his numbers are FAR superior to those put up by Castro in the same league last year? Castro had an OPS of .726, Vitters' is .795 right now.

Vitters is doing very well. Vitters has an 8 game hit streak during which he's hitting .400 with a HR, 2 doubles 3BB's and only 4K's.

So actually, contrary to your seeming belief that Vitters sucks, he has kicked ***.

Doogolas
05-07-2010, 05:00 PM
If we traded Theriot, we might finally put the correct guy at leadoff, Fukudome.

Also, Theriot's value is so much ridiculously higher than Fontenot's it's not even funny. Theriot is probably close to worth Heath Bell to the Padres. Fontenot is worth maybe 1/4 that.

Captain Obvious
05-07-2010, 05:01 PM
If we traded Theriot, we might finally put the correct guy at leadoff, Fukudome.

You misspelled "Zambrano"

Doogolas
05-07-2010, 05:02 PM
You misspelled "Zambrano"
You misspelled: What I'm saying is gibberish and will make sense to zero people.

Diehdcubsfan2
05-07-2010, 05:07 PM
Firefox has spell Checker

Diehardcub
05-07-2010, 05:09 PM
Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. Wronnnnnng.

His OPS+ right now is like 115 and he's younger than most of his counterparts.

You are aware that his numbers are FAR superior to those put up by Castro in the same league last year? Castro had an OPS of .726, Vitters' is .795 right now.

Vitters is doing very well. Vitters has an 8 game hit streak during which he's hitting .400 with a HR, 2 doubles 3BB's and only 4K's.

So actually, contrary to your seeming belief that Vitters sucks, he has kicked ***.

Wow, who **** in your cherioes? Where in my post did I say Vitters sucks? And your aware I was talking about Castro's numbers this year right? Apparently not. He's done fairly well, but that's it. Certainly not justification for a promotion. Just because I'm not sucking his ****, doesn't mean I think he sucks. Good overreaction. :rolleyes:

toovey107
05-07-2010, 05:11 PM
A little premature I would say, Ugh Idk ... another thing that just makes me shake my head. Hopefully Castro can be productive.

Doogolas
05-07-2010, 05:13 PM
Wow, who **** in your cherioes? Where in my post did I say Vitters sucks? And your aware I was talking about Castro's numbers this year right? Apparently not. He's done fairly well, but that's it. Certainly not justification for a promotion. Just because I'm not sucking his ****, doesn't mean I think he sucks. Good overreaction. :rolleyes:

Yeah, Castro is in the majors cause he raked in AA this year. I'm well aware. But I was comparing them by level. Castro did super well last year cause he was young and playing in levels with much older competition than him. Guess who's doing the same thing this year? That Vitters guy. He's 20, now 24 or 25. And he's doing very well in A ball.

So he earned his promotion. I'm not sucking his dick. I'm saying he's doing well. You implied he wasn't doing well enough to earn said promotion. I was simply telling you why you're wrong.

Diehardcub
05-07-2010, 05:21 PM
Yeah, Castro is in the majors cause he raked in AA this year. I'm well aware. But I was comparing them by level. Castro did super well last year cause he was young and playing in levels with much older competition than him. Guess who's doing the same thing this year? That Vitters guy. He's 20, now 24 or 25. And he's doing very well in A ball.

So he earned his promotion. I'm not sucking his dick. I'm saying he's doing well. You implied he wasn't doing well enough to earn said promotion. I was simply telling you why you're wrong.

I'm saying he's done fairly well too. I just don't agree with the promotion based on his numbers. All I'm trying to say is just because I'm not as high on him as you, doesn't mean I think he sucks. I don't. I don't care if you disagree with me, just don't make it into something it isn't. Let's get back to something we do agree on. How do you want to murder Lou?

Jilly Bohnson
05-07-2010, 05:23 PM
That's what I'd assume as well. There are a lot of things that factor in to that. Like he could have been very fatigued. I mean we're talking about a kid that had been playing with no break for what, almost a full calendar year?

Then there's the fact that he could have just had a couple bad runs. It was a tiny sample size. My point was just that he doesn't have great speed like people want to believe he does. And people shouldn't expect him to be running all over the place. Like you said, Jeter speed is far, far more likely.

Yeah, people are going to assume since he's a young latin middle infielder that he's super fast, but he's not.


To lazy to look, but I remember that Reliever from the Mets was also 20. He had some good stuff. And he was the youngest.

I had to check, but he's younger than Mejia. And I already checked Heyward and Stanton. I think he's the youngest guy we will see this year unless something very unexpected happens, like Teheran getting called up.

Rndy
05-07-2010, 05:27 PM
Yeah, people are going to assume since he's a young latin middle infielder that he's super fast, but he's not.



I had to check, but he's younger than Mejia. And I already checked Heyward and Stanton. I think he's the youngest guy we will see this year unless something very unexpected happens, like Teheran getting called up.



I'm curious are you going off SB's for the super fast comment? Because that always isn't the case.

Doogolas
05-07-2010, 05:31 PM
I'm saying he's done fairly well too. I just don't agree with the promotion based on his numbers. All I'm trying to say is just because I'm not as high on him as you, doesn't mean I think he sucks. I don't. I don't care if you disagree with me, just don't make it into something it isn't. Let's get back to something we do agree on. How do you want to murder Lou?

High on him as me? I haven't said I'm high on him at all. I'm just saying he's earned his promotion. He started out piss poor and has since played extremely well. Vitters started out 1/12 and has since done this:

.316/.368/.490/.858

So again, he's earned his promotion.

semperfi
05-07-2010, 05:45 PM
Writing in Castro on the All-Star game ballot.

Milnertime
05-07-2010, 05:45 PM
I don't know if this has been mentioned yet, but according to ESPN, Castro will be in the lineup tonight.

I'm guessing someone mentioned it already, but I'm not going to read all 6 pages of this thread.

Doogolas
05-07-2010, 05:46 PM
I don't know if this has been mentioned yet, but according to ESPN, Castro will be in the lineup tonight.

I'm guessing someone mentioned it already, but I'm not going to read all 6 pages of this thread.

Yep, he's hitting 8th.

jiggin
05-07-2010, 05:47 PM
uhhhg....


man I am worried this is a knee jerk reaction to a less than exciting april.

Too soon in my opinion...

...i haven't read the thread but my bet is that most here are ecstatic over this.

hope we aren't jeopardizing the future based on freaking out so early in the season.

sigh

Doogolas
05-07-2010, 05:49 PM
uhhhg....


man I am worried this is a knee jerk reaction to a less than exciting april.

Too soon in my opinion...

...i haven't read the thread but my bet is that most here are ecstatic over this.

hope we aren't jeopardizing the future based on freaking out so early in the season.

sigh

Not ecstatic. More like, "Eh." I mean, how much is it going to hurt? The kid seems to be ready. He's raking in AA. Improved upon last year and already has what is supposed to be a very, very MLB Ready glove.

chicagofan71
05-07-2010, 05:50 PM
uhhhg....


man I am worried this is a knee jerk reaction to a less than exciting april.

Too soon in my opinion...

...i haven't read the thread but my bet is that most here are ecstatic over this.

hope we aren't jeopardizing the future based on freaking out so early in the season.

sigh

once again..:laugh2:

1908_Cubs
05-07-2010, 05:51 PM
Not ecstatic. More like, "Eh." I mean, how much is it going to hurt? The kid seems to be ready. He's raking in AA. Improved upon last year and already has what is supposed to be a very, very MLB Ready glove.

1) SS wasn't our issue
2) Lack of experience above A ball and age
3) Rush of similar prospects and their subsequent failures
4) He'll get pricey - quick

That.

Doogolas
05-07-2010, 05:54 PM
1) SS wasn't our issue
2) Lack of experience above A ball and age
3) Rush of similar prospects and their subsequent failures
4) He'll get pricey - quick

That.

1) Meh, if he can perform here. Theriot is expendable. That is good. Because he has solid value.
2) Lot's of players don't. Most certainly do, but there are exceptions. And plenty of successful ones.
3) He isn't comparable to any prospect you're thinking of. Pie and Patterson were COMPLETELY different players. They struck out all the time. All. The. Time. At every level. It's not the same thing. Quit trying to pretend it is. It's not even close.
4) Not quick. In 3 years. Just slightly quicker. As the Cubs though, we'll be able to afford it easily. We still control him through 2016, which is what the more important issue is.

chicagofan71
05-07-2010, 05:55 PM
1) SS wasn't our issue
2) Lack of experience above A ball and age
3) Rush of similar prospects and their subsequent failures
4) He'll get pricey - quick

That.

1) But 2nd base was
2) legitimate
3) legitimate
4) Cmon suck it up were the Cubs not the ****ing Padres, if someone like him needs money, you better believe we can pony it up

People need to stop acting like we're supposed to something special this year and eventually will win 85-88 wins. It's not happening folks, get the **** over it

thawv
05-07-2010, 05:57 PM
1) SS wasn't our issue
2) Lack of experience above A ball and age
3) Rush of similar prospects and their subsequent failures
4) He'll get pricey - quick

That.

He's up here to improve 2nd base, not SS. And along the way, it vastly improves SS defensively.

If you are ready for the big leagues, age and experience mean very little.

He's not being rushed.............he's ready.

He will make league minimum for 3 years.

semperfi
05-07-2010, 05:58 PM
I don't get this crying about "he'll get expensive quickly". If he performs up to par, it's worth the money. Cause if he isn't really good when he hits super-2 status, he isn't getting a big pay raise, and if he is good, then he's earned his money.

redwhitenblue
05-07-2010, 05:58 PM
1) But 2nd base was
2) legitimate
3) legitimate
4) Cmon suck it up were the Cubs not the ****ing Padres, if someone like him needs money, you better believe we can pony it up

People need to stop acting like we're supposed to something special this year and eventually will win 85-88 wins. It's not happening folks, get the **** over it
Our RHH in the 2B platoon is hitting .290/.371/.581/.952 against LHP.
The LHH in the 2B platoon isn't slugging for **** right now but still has a fine AVG/OBP and the best glove at that position for the team.


2B was not an issue that would be fixed here.

Doogolas
05-07-2010, 06:01 PM
Our RHH in the 2B platoon is hitting .290/.371/.581/.952 against LHP.
The LHH in the 2B platoon isn't slugging for **** right now but still has a fine AVG/OBP and the best glove at that position for the team.


2B was not an issue that would be fixed here.

No, but again. If it can make Theriot expendable it makes him extremely, extremely valuable.

Mell413
05-07-2010, 06:02 PM
No, but again. If it can make Theriot expendable it makes him extremely, extremely valuable.

I don't see the Cubs dealing Theriot.

redwhitenblue
05-07-2010, 06:03 PM
No, but again. If it can make Theriot expendable it makes him extremely, extremely valuable.
Not to the 2B position.

That post was directed at those saying the 2B position is improving with Castro coming up.

gocubs2118
05-07-2010, 06:03 PM
2nd base has a collective OPS this year of .656. How can't that be improved?

Doogolas
05-07-2010, 06:05 PM
Not to the 2B position.

That post was directed at those saying the 2B position is improving with Castro coming up.

Oh, I agree there. It's not really gonna improve it. Because when used correctly the 2B platoon has been very good. But I do think it's a fine move. Not bad. Not great. Just a move.

Jilly Bohnson
05-07-2010, 06:06 PM
1) SS wasn't our issue
2) Lack of experience above A ball and age
3) Rush of similar prospects and their subsequent failures
4) He'll get pricey - quick

That.

1) Like others have said, 2b is
3) Not similar players
2 & 4) Only one of these can be a problem. If he hits the ground running he'll get pricey, if he doesn't because of lack of experience he won't.

redwhitenblue
05-07-2010, 06:06 PM
2nd base has a collective OPS this year of .656. How can't that be improved?
A smart manager.

If they were platooned correctly, that number would be well up.

Fontenot's OPS will go up when he starts getting some XBH's, and Baker has faced RHP over 1/3 of the time which is too much.

Jilly Bohnson
05-07-2010, 06:07 PM
I'm curious are you going off SB's for the super fast comment? Because that always isn't the case.

No, I know he's not super fast, I'm saying people who don't know about him are going to assume he is since he's a young latin shortstop.

chicagofan71
05-07-2010, 06:07 PM
nvm

1908_Cubs
05-07-2010, 06:07 PM
He's up here to improve 2nd base, not SS. And along the way, it vastly improves SS defensively.

If you are ready for the big leagues, age and experience mean very little.

He's not being rushed.............he's ready.

He will make league minimum for 3 years.

He's going to be super-two elligable, no he wont.


Oh, he's ready? Patterson and Pie were ready too, I expect.

How does he vastly improve over Theriot's career 11+ UZR rating? Please do tell. I'd just love to know how he "vastly" improves over a good number.

And I highly doubt he improves 2b all that much. I love Castro. He's ****ing barely 20 years old. But I'm not expecting much out of him and Fontenot has been serviceable at 2b to an extent. Lee and Rammy have been our issues. Far more than 2b.

Doogolas
05-07-2010, 06:08 PM
1) Like others have said, 2b is
3) Not similar players
2 & 4) Only one of these can be a problem. If he hits the ground running he'll get pricey, if he doesn't because of lack of experience he won't.

2B isn't a problem though. Their collective defense has been fantastic. And when used properly the hitting has been pretty good as well. The problem is really only that Baker has faced a few righties.

chicagofan71
05-07-2010, 06:10 PM
A smart manager.

If they were platooned correctly, that number would be well up.

Fontenot's OPS will go up when he starts getting some XBH's, and Baker has faced RHP over 1/3 of the time which is too much.

How aren't they being platooned correctly? Baker has started twice vs RHP. That's it. And 18 AB's vs RHP total, 7 of which are from pinch hitting

1908_Cubs
05-07-2010, 06:10 PM
1) Like others have said, 2b is
3) Not similar players
2 & 4) Only one of these can be a problem. If he hits the ground running he'll get pricey, if he doesn't because of lack of experience he won't.

The similarity of the player is not the issues. What is the Cubs rushing young players to the MLB and then Lou stashing them on the bench after a bad week. Lou has done it again, and again, and again. If you don't come up and set the world on fire, you go away. And honestly, Im worried. Very. We have constantly ruined our position play prospects and honestly, while i know there is a low rate of successes, it's getting ridiculous that the only decent ones we've made in a long while are Theriot and Soto.

Doogolas
05-07-2010, 06:10 PM
He's going to be super-two elligable, no he wont.


Oh, he's ready? Patterson and Pie were ready too, I expect.

How does he vastly improve over Theriot's career 11+ UZR rating? Please do tell. I'd just love to know how he "vastly" improves over a good number.

And I highly doubt he improves 2b all that much. I love Castro. He's ****ing barely 20 years old. But I'm not expecting much out of him and Fontenot has been serviceable at 2b to an extent. Lee and Rammy have been our issues. Far more than 2b.

A) Lol, not that big of a deal. We're a huge *** market and we still get control through 2016.
B) Pie was, Patterson... eh, maybe. They're TOTALLY different players though. Terrible to even bother comparing them.
C) +11UZR rating, really? Try 4.0UZR/150, +11 doesn't mean ****. It's quite possible Castro could pull off +11 in a year, that's the type of glovemanship a real Gold Glover should have after all. Castro probably IS a better defensive SS, though I suspect not by a ton.
D) It doesn't improve 2B that much. But it potentially allows us to trade Theriot. Which would be huge.


Seriously this Pie and Patterson **** is ridiculous. They play two TOTALLY different styles. He has very good contact skills. Which means when his contact skills are MLB ready, which he's pretty much proven they are to the best of his ability, he's ready. Pie and Patterson are much more complex and hard to judge because they're toolsy guys, not guys with contact skills. Believe it or not, it really, really does matter.

Jilly Bohnson
05-07-2010, 06:11 PM
He's going to be super-two elligable, no he wont.


Oh, he's ready? Patterson and Pie were ready too, I expect.

How does he vastly improve over Theriot's career 11+ UZR rating? Please do tell. I'd just love to know how he "vastly" improves over a good number.

And I highly doubt he improves 2b all that much. I love Castro. He's ****ing barely 20 years old. But I'm not expecting much out of him and Fontenot has been serviceable at 2b to an extent. Lee and Rammy have been our issues. Far more than 2b.

If he is that's a good thing, because it means he'll be an impact player sooner rather than later. An extra couple million is worth him comign up and producing right away.

Pie and Patterson aren't really similar players.

He should be a few run upgrade over Theriot, and Theriot in turn should be a few run upgrade over 2b. Much like how Byrd isn't a great defender, but adding him to CF and sliding Fukudome to right improved our outfield defense, Castro improves our whole middle infield defense.

chicagofan71
05-07-2010, 06:11 PM
2B isn't a problem though. Their collective defense has been fantastic. And when used properly the hitting has been pretty good as well. The problem is really only that Baker has faced a two righties.

fixed