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View Full Version : Is it me or did Detroit randomly sign Ben Gordon and Charlie Vill?



DitchDat
05-05-2010, 05:31 AM
I thought they would at least be starters and they'd try to get rid of Hamilton in order to maximize Gordon.

What were they thinking? :confused:

JayW_1023
05-05-2010, 05:35 AM
It was one of the most awful signings in league history...they are stuck with two mediocre players who are payed like All-stars.

DitchDat
05-05-2010, 05:36 AM
...and they both come off the bench, think about that

that's like 90 million in salaries coming off the bench, that's crazy

JayW_1023
05-05-2010, 05:45 AM
Truth is Ben Gordon is finally exposed as nothing but a volume shooter who isn't really good at anything except for streak shooting. When his shot isn't falling, he is useless. Ironically C-Vill is Gordons PF counterpart.

ryder78c
05-05-2010, 05:47 AM
i'll take rip from detroit if they wanna trade rip & stuckey for bayless Rudy fernandez & joel przybilla lol then they can play ben gordon

DitchDat
05-05-2010, 05:59 AM
Pistons need a defend-first big man and a point-forward to maximize Stuckey and Gordon

Bulls_fan90
05-05-2010, 06:02 AM
I thought it was a horrible move from day 1. Unless the Pistons luck out in the lottery, their future really dosen't look good.

D Roses Bulls
05-05-2010, 06:25 AM
wow and most of you were geekin on ben gordon. seriously you guys jump on the band wagon when a lot of bulls fans were tellin you in the beginning gordon was not that good

Patman
05-05-2010, 06:25 AM
typical case of using cap space no matter what.Both players aren't worth their contracts and they just don't fit the system. The Pistons dug themselves a hole with those contract's.

Some GM this summer should remember the Pistons when they sit on 30mil or so cap space and the top free agents have already signed with an other team, there could be more than one team that overspends on one or two players.

politiczombie
05-05-2010, 06:27 AM
The C-Vill signing was straight the Gordon sign was dumb Stuckey could easily play the 2 guard along with the other 2 guards we have why give Hamilton a good contract then sign BG Dumars is losing it I think

deuces
05-05-2010, 07:27 AM
they freed up the cap and wasted it, should have waited until 2010

Badluck33
05-05-2010, 08:10 AM
BG7 might be the leagues most over-rated player.

Good luck with that contract Detroit.

JordansBulls
05-05-2010, 08:10 AM
It was one of the most awful signings in league history...they are stuck with two mediocre players who are payed like All-stars.

:nod:

aZekuiS
05-05-2010, 08:26 AM
BG played great until he got injured, then he finished the season strong even on an ankle he had to have surgery on last week. Half the Pistons roster were plagued by injuries last season. I think we're overloaded at the 2 guard position and need to make a few trades/drafts for a true point and big man.

aZekuiS
05-05-2010, 08:31 AM
BG7 might be the leagues most over-rated player.

Good luck with that contract Detroit.

It coulda been worse, we coulda signed Ben Wallace to a 60M contract at the end of his career, or paid a below average pg 10M a season in Hinrich, or gave an average forward an 80M contract in Deng.

Draco
05-05-2010, 08:31 AM
Truth is Ben Gordon is finally exposed as nothing but a volume shooter who isn't really good at anything except for streak shooting. When his shot isn't falling, he is useless. Ironically C-Vill is Gordons PF counterpart.

Did he do something differently in Detroit in his 6th season other than be injured for the second time in his career? :rolleyes:

Miltown34
05-05-2010, 08:43 AM
It coulda been worse, we coulda signed Ben Wallace to a 60M contract at the end of his career, or paid a below average pg 10M a season in Hinrich, or gave an average forward an 80M contract in Deng.

but as of right now, Ben Wallace is not on their books anymore and I'd rather rigve Hinrich a 8-9 million a year with now 3 years left...then 2 give Gordon and Charlie V all that money if you swapped that 2 for 1 Detroit wouldn't lose anything lol....Bucks fans well smart ones knew Charlie V was a waste...Those guys aren't impact players there what you call situational/stat whores.....it's going look worse in the future when salaries are going down and Charlie V is a top 12 paid PF lmao

Ssshbliblibl00p
05-05-2010, 08:44 AM
What really happened was they (Joe Dumars) got gassed over the progress of guys Rodney Stuckey and Jason Maxiel...then still considered they had all-star players in Rip Hamilton and Tayshaun Prince (those days are over) and figured they could quickly rebuild a well round "team" not predicated on having a true marquee Allstar like they did during their run.

Joe Dumars has no vision not to mention he read way too much into how good BG and CV played last season.

Raoul Duke
05-05-2010, 09:15 AM
It was one of the most awful signings in league history...they are stuck with two mediocre players who are payed like All-stars.


Truth is Ben Gordon is finally exposed as nothing but a volume shooter who isn't really good at anything except for streak shooting. When his shot isn't falling, he is useless. Ironically C-Vill is Gordons PF counterpart.

Didn't Ben Gordon have five years where he averaged right around 18ppg and shot better than 40% from three? That's mediocre?

I guess you should, y'know, actually watch the Pistons before you try and diagnose their prolems, douche. Our roster was an absolute mess and our coaching staff was awful, but we do have some talent.

EDIT: And to address the original idea of the post, it wasn't very random. We signed BG because when we lost Chauncey, the two biggest areas we sucked in (aside from game management) were clutch shooting and three-point shooting. If you're smart, then I shouldn't have to explain why he helps in those areas, or why one rough season out of six does not make a guy "injury prone".

I can't give Dumars too much **** for the C-Vil signing because I was singing his praises last summer also. But hindsight is 20/20, and he is nothing that I want in a big man.

aZekuiS
05-05-2010, 09:56 AM
but as of right now, Ben Wallace is not on their books anymore and I'd rather rigve Hinrich a 8-9 million a year with now 3 years left...then 2 give Gordon and Charlie V all that money if you swapped that 2 for 1 Detroit wouldn't lose anything lol....Bucks fans well smart ones knew Charlie V was a waste...Those guys aren't impact players there what you call situational/stat whores.....it's going look worse in the future when salaries are going down and Charlie V is a top 12 paid PF lmao

Yes, but it set them back a few seasons. I'de rather have Gordon & CV than a more expensive Hinrich & Deng. It'll look worse when salaries go down and Deng is a top 5 paid SF lmao.

Voodoo Alchemy
05-05-2010, 10:00 AM
yeah, the gm put on blindfolds and arbitrarily threw darts at the free agent map board and guess where they landed.

Super.
05-05-2010, 10:14 AM
It coulda been worse, we coulda signed Ben Wallace to a 60M contract at the end of his career, or paid a below average pg 10M a season in Hinrich, or gave an average forward an 80M contract in Deng.

Yet the Bulls are better, and have the cap to sign a great player.

Bulls Future > Piston's Future

aZekuiS
05-05-2010, 10:22 AM
Yet the Bulls are better, and have the cap to sign a great player.

Bulls Future > Piston's Future

Of course, the Pistons were the 3rd best team of the last decade, while the Bulls were trash for over a decade, and if they didn't "win" their 1% chance of landing Rose, they coulda been garbage for another decade. Teams can't be great forever, eventually you have to start rebuilding, as a Celtic fan you have to know something about that.

Team*Chicago
05-05-2010, 10:34 AM
It was one of the most awful signings in league history...they are stuck with two mediocre players who are payed like All-stars.


...and they both come off the bench, think about that
that's like 90 million in salaries coming off the bench, that's crazy


Truth is Ben Gordon is finally exposed as nothing but a volume shooter who isn't really good at anything except for streak shooting. When his shot isn't falling, he is useless. Ironically C-Vill is Gordons PF counterpart.


The C-Vill signing was straight the Gordon sign was dumb Stuckey could easily play the 2 guard along with the other 2 guards we have why give Hamilton a good contract then sign BG Dumars is losing it I think


typical case of using cap space no matter what.Both players aren't worth their contracts and they just don't fit the system. The Pistons dug themselves a hole with those contract's.

Some GM this summer should remember the Pistons when they sit on 30mil or so cap space and the top free agents have already signed with an other team, there could be more than one team that overspends on one or two players.


they freed up the cap and wasted it, should have waited until 2010


What really happened was they (Joe Dumars) got gassed over the progress of guys Rodney Stuckey and Jason Maxiel...then still considered they had all-star players in Rip Hamilton and Tayshaun Prince (those days are over) and figured they could quickly rebuild a well round "team" not predicated on having a true marquee Allstar like they did during their run.

Joe Dumars has no vision not to mention he read way too much into how good BG and CV played last season.


:laugh: You guys finally realize that Ben Gordon was unneed for the Bulls and it was smart to let him walk off, now he is officially a scrub and you guys seen the true colors of Ben Gordon. You guys sat there and bashed the hell out the Bulls for letting him walk and now you praise the Bulls for letting him walk. Once again us Bulls fans proven you guys wrong. Would you want to overpay Ben so he can put up medicore stats and lose the majority of the time like the Pistons? I don't think so!






Yes, but it set them back a few seasons. I'de rather have Gordon & CV than a more expensive Hinrich & Deng. It'll look worse when salaries go down and Deng is a top 5 paid SF lmao.

Atleast Hinrich & Deng(playoffs team/winners) is better than Gordon & CV(scrubs team/losers).



Yet the Bulls are better, and have the cap to sign a great player.

Bulls Future > Piston's Future

Atleast you're the smart one that sees the whole picture.

streetballa
05-05-2010, 10:35 AM
Last season was an injury plagued season in Detroit and Charlie was facing a foot injury that slowed his momentum. I think he will be much improved next season and if he gets some coaching from a Big Ben he can even become an average defender. If not I would take BG and CV off the bench to head my second unit any day.

Pistons have not truly been in the lottery since 2001 I believe....how many times were the Bulls there since then? Give us a 6'10 or bigger center that defends and let the Pistons stay healthy then we would be set.....

However, I still think Pistons should have gambled on David Lee and drafted Blair over Summers. Granted the injuries screwed the season we were down to Stuckey and Atkins at one point so the signing was a non-factor into a lot of the season. Charlie was as inconsistent as it gets but he is making around 6 million a year which is not bad for a PF that can stretch the floor.

Voodoo Alchemy
05-05-2010, 10:41 AM
Last season was an injury plagued season in Detroit and Charlie was facing a foot injury that slowed his momentum. I think he will be much improved next season and if he gets some coaching from a Big Ben he can even become an average defender. If not I would take BG and CV off the bench to head my second unit any day.

Pistons have not truly been in the lottery since 2001 I believe....how many times were the Bulls there since then? Give us a 6'10 or bigger center that defends and let the Pistons stay healthy then we would be set.....

However, I still think Pistons should have gambled on David Lee and drafted Blair over Summers. Granted the injuries screwed the season we were down to Stuckey and Atkins at one point so the signing was a non-factor into a lot of the season. Charlie was as inconsistent as it gets but he is making around 6 million a year which is not bad for a PF that can stretch the floor.

all charlie v. needs to do is grow eyebrows. i can deal with the bald head but the guy looks like a albino freak. couldn't he get eyebrow tattoos?

ballpd05
05-05-2010, 10:46 AM
typical case of using cap space no matter what.Both players aren't worth their contracts and they just don't fit the system. The Pistons dug themselves a hole with those contract's.

Some GM this summer should remember the Pistons when they sit on 30mil or so cap space and the top free agents have already signed with an other team, there could be more than one team that overspends on one or two players.

Exactly, they just had alot of cap space and felt they had to spend it on somebody. Even though the two they spent it on are now where near all-star caliber.

I totally agree with everything you said here though.

streetballa
05-05-2010, 10:46 AM
Now insulting a guy for a disease....that is big of you

MJ-BULLS
05-05-2010, 10:53 AM
I had this coming all along since they signed both of them.

They are really going to be in for some bad years ahead unless the can find something to save there team.

aZekuiS
05-05-2010, 10:53 AM
:laugh: You guys finally realize that Ben Gordon was unneed for the Bulls and it was smart to let him walk off, now he is officially a scrub and you guys seen the true colors of Ben Gordon. You guys sat there and bashed the hell out the Bulls for letting him walk and now you praise the Bulls for letting him walk. Once again us Bulls fans proven you guys wrong. Would you want to overpay Ben so he can put up medicore stats and lose the majority of the time like the Pistons? I don't think so!







Atleast Hinrich & Deng(playoffs team/winners) is better than Gordon & CV(scrubs team/losers).




Atleast you're the smart one that sees the whole picture.

Lol since when are Hinrich & Deng winners? Rip & Prince themselves are more accomplished than the entire bulls team combined. I understand you guys were super excited to get to the playoffs this season, but the Pistons got to the finals or ecf every year, the goal is to win rings not become mediocre like the Bulls.

:laugh: I've never heard anyone being so excited for his team being a 1 & done playoff team.

Now go stare & drool at your Derrick Rose fathead you douche.

Raoul Duke
05-05-2010, 10:56 AM
all charlie v. needs to do is grow eyebrows. i can deal with the bald head but the guy looks like a albino freak. couldn't he get eyebrow tattoos?

Detroit has a proud tradition of having one of the ugliest rosters in sports. We love the ugliness.


Exactly, they just had alot of cap space and felt they had to spend it on somebody. Even though the two they spent it on are now where near all-star caliber.

I don't see how anyone can think that Ben Gordon made no sense in the context of what we needed as a team.

I've said this a million times over in the Pistons forum, and I'll reiterate it here for everyone else; Joe's big mistake wasn't signing Gordon, it was re-upping on Rip Hamilton. He traded Billups partly due to age and contract, and then simultaneously locked up Rip for three extra years despite being roughly the same age and price as Chauncey. After that, the Gordon signing made a lot less sense, simply because we can't possibly get 100% out of those two in the same game.

ShockerArt
05-05-2010, 11:00 AM
Detroit has a proud tradition of having one of the ugliest rosters in sports. We love the ugliness.



I don't see how anyone can think that Ben Gordon made no sense in the context of what we needed as a team.

I've said this a million times over in the Pistons forum, and I'll reiterate it here for everyone else; Joe's big mistake wasn't signing Gordon, it was re-upping on Rip Hamilton. He traded Billups partly due to age and contract, and then simultaneously locked up Rip for three extra years despite being roughly the same age and price as Chauncey. After that, the Gordon signing made a lot less sense, simply because we can't possibly get 100% out of those two in the same game.

I agree with the other poster. I think that Dumars ran into a situation where he had a lot of cap space and no real top level players available in free agency. For some reason, GMs feel compelled to spend the money regardless. They think that the fans would be more upset at leaving money on the table than overspending on mediocre players.

mikantsass
05-05-2010, 11:22 AM
It coulda been worse, we coulda signed Ben Wallace to a 60M contract at the end of his career, or paid a below average pg 10M a season in Hinrich, or gave an average forward an 80M contract in Deng.

Dont forget Larry Hughes and Drew Gooden

DaBUU
05-05-2010, 11:32 AM
Truth is Ben Gordon is finally exposed as nothing but a volume shooter who isn't really good at anything except for streak shooting. When his shot isn't falling, he is useless. Ironically C-Vill is Gordons PF counterpart.

No one listens to us Bulls fans, we've been saying this for years. Thats why we were all for letting him walk.

HOZ THE KNICK
05-05-2010, 11:32 AM
Detroit should have save that money for this free agent class but dumars wanted to make a splash

DaBUU
05-05-2010, 11:37 AM
Dont forget Larry Hughes and Drew Gooden

Bulls didnt sign these guys as free agents so they dont count as bad signings. We had to take them back in the trade for Ben Wallace, which was the bad signing in the first place.

Tony_Starks
05-05-2010, 11:55 AM
Good point, it was random as hell. Dumars gets a lot of credit for getting Chauncey, Rip, and Rasheed but he's done more bad than good IMO. The Darko debacle is monumental, then choosing Stuckey over Chauncey, then these random a ss signings.

He's totally screwed Detroit up!

Chicagofaithful
05-05-2010, 11:58 AM
It coulda been worse, we coulda signed Ben Wallace to a 60M contract at the end of his career, or paid a below average pg 10M a season in Hinrich, or gave an average forward an 80M contract in Deng.

ironically our team had a much better record than yours with our bad signings...

SluggeR
05-05-2010, 12:01 PM
Ben was brought into a messed up situation and plus he battled through injuries this year. Joe just spent money, to spend money. RIP has a contract that is hard to move, Ben just signed his contract and he is more moveable than RIP. The bulls really missed Ben this offseason. Joe knew Ben was a scorer when he got him, Joe should have known whether he could move RIP before the move.

fadedmario
05-05-2010, 12:16 PM
We need a true point guard and we will probably draft a center this year. Hopefully Cole Aldrich. Once we get a real PG we can move Stuckey to the 2. Hamilton will probably be traded before the season. Our starters will probably look like this next year.

PG: Mid-level pickup
SG: Rodney Stuckey
SF: Tayshaun Prince
PF: Jonas Jerebko
C: 2010 first round pick (probably 7th pick)

That's what were stuck with next year. Detroit's went public and said there top priorities this off-season are to get a true point guard (mid-level contract), and a starting center (7th pick). Our 6th and 7th men off the bench would be Charlie V. and Gordon. If we draft a center this year we will still be in lottery next year. Next year we can get our point guard of the future with a top 10 draft pick.

thescore53
05-05-2010, 12:26 PM
Pistons need a defend-first big man and a point-forward to maximize Stuckey and Gordon

hedo turkoglu :)

Ssshbliblibl00p
05-05-2010, 12:29 PM
:laugh: You guys finally realize that Ben Gordon was unneed for the Bulls and it was smart to let him walk off, now he is officially a scrub and you guys seen the true colors of Ben Gordon. You guys sat there and bashed the hell out the Bulls for letting him walk and now you praise the Bulls for letting him walk. Once again us Bulls fans proven you guys wrong. Would you want to overpay Ben so he can put up medicore stats and lose the majority of the time like the Pistons? I don't think so!







Atleast Hinrich & Deng(playoffs team/winners) is better than Gordon & CV(scrubs team/losers).




Atleast you're the smart one that sees the whole picture.

I am not a Bulls Fan.

I think the Charlie V signing was horrible, but the Gordon signing wasn't too bad considering how well he played in the post season (still bad tho). How soon Bulls fans forget how he stepped up for them in the playoffs.

The Bulls sure could have used BG in the playoffs this season thats for sure. I'm sure he had a chuckle or two watching them struggle to get easy buckets and perimeter shots.

He's had a rough season dealing with injuries, but he's still the most explosive player on that tired Detroit roster.

Sadds The Gr8
05-05-2010, 12:39 PM
Pistons need a defend-first big man and a point-forward to maximize Stuckey and Gordon

Turk for Rip!!!

tr3ymill3r
05-05-2010, 12:46 PM
I really thought at the time the signings were an indication of what you all mentioned getting rid of Rip. The Pistons traded away the wrong guard to begin with in Chauncey. I also thought for sure the Pistons were going to be interested in Tracy McGrady. I am a Rockets fan and last summer I continually heard rumors of a TMac trade to Detroit to help with cap space and allow there overpaid UnderStars a chance to play

b1e9a8r5s
05-05-2010, 01:24 PM
The Pistons panicked and spent the money just to spend it. BG and Charlie V are decent players but both have big limitations that should have prevented them from getting the kind of money they got. It will be interesting to see if something similar happens this year. So many teams have geared up for the 2010 class and a team that misses out on a big fish might over pay just to do it. I can picture the Clippers giving Ruddy Gay a make deal after LBJ, Wade, Bosh and Johnson all won't come there.

ElFuturoDeESPN
05-05-2010, 01:27 PM
It coulda been worse, we coulda signed Ben Wallace to a 60M contract at the end of his career, or paid a below average pg 10M a season in Hinrich, or gave an average forward an 80M contract in Deng.

Oh God. That would have been up there with some of the worst moves ever.

b1e9a8r5s
05-05-2010, 01:31 PM
I am not a Bulls Fan.

I think the Charlie V signing was horrible, but the Gordon signing wasn't too bad considering how well he played in the post season (still bad tho). How soon Bulls fans forget how he stepped up for them in the playoffs.

The Bulls sure could have used BG in the playoffs this season thats for sure. I'm sure he had a chuckle or two watching them struggle to get easy buckets and perimeter shots.

He's had a rough season dealing with injuries, but he's still the most explosive player on that tired Detroit roster.

Sure the Bulls could have used BG in the playoffs but with him, what was thier ceilling? Making the 2nd round? Now if they land one of the bigger FA they could be a contender in the East.

ldc62
05-05-2010, 01:50 PM
It was a move of desperation. They had cap space and they new they were not getting any of the big name FA in 2010 so they had to resort to signing chumps.

Catfish1314
05-05-2010, 02:03 PM
It's obvious Dumars should have saved his money but both were coming off great seasons and Gordon had been doing what he was doing a couple years prior to last year.

Joe D did a great job putting a contender together but so far he's sucking at rebuilding. He placed way too much faith in Rodney Stuckey and dealt Chauncey for less than he was worth, then those signings last summer. :shrug:

thekmp211
05-05-2010, 02:42 PM
horrible. a page out of isiah thomas' book. dumars lives on his laurels as a gm but has made a lot of questionable decisions

sean17c
05-05-2010, 03:01 PM
wowwwww

passed over melo wade

let chauncey go for ai...lmao

then signed 2 bums


lmao at the pistons

smh and i loved the 04 pistons

and the ben wallace signing was good. we won 50 games that year

Pierzynski4Prez
05-05-2010, 03:09 PM
wowwwww

passed over melo wade

let chauncey go for ai...lmao

then signed 2 bums


lmao at the pistons

smh and i loved the 04 pistons

and the ben wallace signing was good. we won 50 games that year

It was actually 49, but anyways, not a good argument for us considering we were eliminated by the Pistons that year. Good series though.

kikeyanez
05-05-2010, 03:20 PM
pistons need a mircle

ValuePick
05-05-2010, 03:24 PM
The brains of the Pistons operation is now in charge in Milwaukee.

comet_10
05-05-2010, 03:42 PM
dont know why everyone is hating on Ben Gordon

Bulls missed his ability to spread the floor for rose, salmons and Hinrich didnt exactly shoot acceptably from the arc all season.

BG is a pure scorer, you work on the fact he will outscore his opponent not hold them to nill.

he is also clutch.

problem in detroit is the backlog of guards, rip is a pure 2 who doesnt make his own shot but gets open better than anyone else, gordon will shoot 3's and create some dumb shots that seem to drop, stuckey= major problem they need a true point guard that cant shoot that will pass first and always, not one that cant shoot but does anyways... esp with a shooting pf CV.

anyways one injury filled season in a new poor offensive system and BG is a chump!!

the roster is good enough, if they buy into a solid offensive and defensive scheme, which is sorely lacking

Raoul Duke
05-05-2010, 03:58 PM
wowwwww

passed over melo wade

let chauncey go for ai...lmao

then signed 2 bums


lmao at the pistons

Dude, you shouldn't bait Detroit fans. I'll resist the urge to make you look silly because there are some Bulls fans on here that are genuinely cool/articulate and I don't want to start a flame war. God damn you make it tempting though.

aZekuiS
05-05-2010, 03:58 PM
ironically our team had a much better record than yours with our bad signings...

yeah because we didn't lose half our roster to injuries or anything.

aZekuiS
05-05-2010, 04:07 PM
heh, the Pistons were winners in the 80's, 90's, and 00's. History repeats itself. I understand some of yall bulls fans are bitter and frusterated, but just keep your heads up and maybe one day you'll make some noise for the first time in the 21st century. No reason to trash other teams.

SteveNash
05-05-2010, 04:10 PM
Supply/Demand.

There were 6 teams with lots of cap space.

Memphis used up the space by getting Z-Bo.
OKC used it for Etan Thomas and Matt Harpring, basically waiting a year.
Hawks resigned Marvin Williams and Bibby.

Leaving Detroit, Portland, and Toronto which is also why Hedo got such a bad contract.

Expect it to be worse this year.

slack_justin
05-05-2010, 05:44 PM
whatever, as long as joe d drafts a good center, and somehow could trade rip or tay or even both. big things could happen. but then again joe d is starting to get on my nerves with his moves. but then again i've been not to pleased with him before annd it worked out.As for chicago,Wade is staying in miami,lebron isnt going to chicago. So who are u expecting? Maybe Amare? I hope not (cause im a pistons fan)

slack_justin
05-05-2010, 05:45 PM
I.ve got it. Bosh to detroit in a sign and trade for tay and rip.

We've all got dreams dont we?

*Silver&Black*
05-05-2010, 05:51 PM
It coulda been worse, we coulda signed Ben Wallace to a 60M contract at the end of his career, or paid a below average pg 10M a season in Hinrich, or gave an average forward an 80M contract in Deng.


Of course, the Pistons were the 3rd best team of the last decade, while the Bulls were trash for over a decade, and if they didn't "win" their 1% chance of landing Rose, they coulda been garbage for another decade.

I don't like the Pistons at all, but I needed to help this guy out. His first few posts was the truth.:clap:

uptownfan
05-05-2010, 05:57 PM
Sure the Bulls could have used BG in the playoffs but with him, what was thier ceilling? Making the 2nd round? Now if they land one of the bigger FA they could be a contender in the East.

This.

ChiSox219
05-05-2010, 06:09 PM
It coulda been worse, we coulda signed Ben Wallace to a 60M contract at the end of his career, or paid a below average pg 10M a season in Hinrich, or gave an average forward an 80M contract in Deng.

Ben Wallace came in and the Bulls became the #1 defense in the league winning 49 games. He was eventually turned into Brad Miller and John Salmons who played a big role in last years playoff run.

How is that worse than how the Pistons signings have worked out?


Yes, but it set them back a few seasons. I'de rather have Gordon & CV than a more expensive Hinrich & Deng. It'll look worse when salaries go down and Deng is a top 5 paid SF lmao.

Deng is paid as a top 10 SF and he is exactly that.

Deng is a better player than either Gordon or CV. I'll take Luol over anyone on the Pistons roster right now.


Joe Dumars has made some terrible moves these last 5+ years. The Pistons are capped out and have a disastrous mix of players. He trades away Billups (who just had another outstanding year) but he doesn't find takers for Rip or Prince. Then spend all of their money on volume scorers with no other skills to support teammates.

There simply isn't a worse situation in the NBA right now. The Pistons will need to cash in on this year's lottery and hope they finish poorly again and get at least one more top 5 pick if they want to compete soon.

IversonIsKrazy
05-05-2010, 07:32 PM
At first, before the signings, they were supposed to be a 2010 team going for Bosh. Then, they became for the 2009 free agency, and were going to target Boozer and Hedo, but then Boozer decided to stay, and Hedo left for T-dot, and Detroit had all this money, and were so EAGER to spend it, that they didn't care about the future, so they over-payed BG7, and Charlie-V.

IversonIsKrazy
05-05-2010, 07:33 PM
their future is messed up...

Stuckey/Bynum will be the only good spot for them
Rip/Gordon Doesn't even work, and RIp is old, while Gordon is overpriced
Prince is old
Everyone else is either old or crap...

heathonater
05-05-2010, 08:08 PM
they got two large, untradeable contracts in gordon and villanueva. even during last season, i thought that the best they would do was be a borderline playoff team.

streetballa
05-05-2010, 08:18 PM
Gordon was playing with an ankle that needed surgery but is normally a 40% 3pt shooter, and should be getting starters minutes. He is worth the 10 mill a year. Villanueva is a PF with a quick first step, when he does not have a foot injury, which is worth about 6 mill. They under achieved last year due to injury, if its a bust next year then bring it back up. However, calling them bad signings after an injury plagued season seems to be jumping the gun a bit.

I mean Bulls fans should be concerned about their front office pushing their coach and who will fill his shoes.

effen5
05-05-2010, 09:15 PM
Dude, you shouldn't bait Detroit fans. I'll resist the urge to make you look silly because there are some Bulls fans on here that are genuinely cool/articulate and I don't want to start a flame war. God damn you make it tempting though.

ripcity......

Toenail Clipper
05-05-2010, 09:16 PM
Terrible signings!

effen5
05-05-2010, 09:17 PM
Gordon was playing with an ankle that needed surgery but is normally a 40% 3pt shooter, and should be getting starters minutes. He is worth the 10 mill a year. Villanueva is a PF with a quick first step, when he does not have a foot injury, which is worth about 6 mill. They under achieved last year due to injury, if its a bust next year then bring it back up. However, calling them bad signings after an injury plagued season seems to be jumping the gun a bit.

I mean Bulls fans should be concerned about their front office pushing their coach and who will fill his shoes.

lol @ gordon being worth 10 mil...

**** no hes not worth 10 mil... you pay a guy 10 mil to play both sides of the ball...he can't d, and when hes having a poor night on offense then what? You bench him?

Yes we over paid Deng, I know that and hes definitely not worth that, but at least when hes struggling on the offensive end, at least we know we would be getting a guy that can at least D up when hes struggling.

effen5
05-05-2010, 09:20 PM
Ben Wallace came in and the Bulls became the #1 defense in the league winning 49 games. He was eventually turned into Brad Miller and John Salmons who played a big role in last years playoff run.

How is that worse than how the Pistons signings have worked out?



Deng is paid as a top 10 SF and he is exactly that.

Deng is a better player than either Gordon or CV. I'll take Luol over anyone on the Pistons roster right now.


Joe Dumars has made some terrible moves these last 5+ years. The Pistons are capped out and have a disastrous mix of players. He trades away Billups (who just had another outstanding year) but he doesn't find takers for Rip or Prince. Then spend all of their money on volume scorers with no other skills to support teammates.

There simply isn't a worse situation in the NBA right now. The Pistons will need to cash in on this year's lottery and hope they finish poorly again and get at least one more top 5 pick if they want to compete soon.

Also on Ben Wallace, he was one of the best defensive players at that time, and we needed a big man that could actually play defense and rebound (unlike Tyson Chandler that skinny ****) playing at an all star level....

BG will never NEVER be an all star.

kozelkid
05-05-2010, 09:24 PM
Random? No.
It appears Dumars ego got inflated just a bit too much and believed he can turn Gordon and Villanueva into the next Billups and Sheed.
Gordon got paid on the high end, but wasn't the worst deal. It just looks bad cause this is the first season he has ever battled serious injuries.
Villanueva was just plain awful. He sucks on all levels. Very inefficient, can't rebound, can't defend, can't do anything really.
They ****ed up. And have to find a way to get rid of Rip. That team is in hell for next 3-4 years or so.

kozelkid
05-05-2010, 09:25 PM
lol @ gordon being worth 10 mil...

**** no hes not worth 10 mil... you pay a guy 10 mil to play both sides of the ball...he can't d, and when hes having a poor night on offense then what? You bench him?

Yes we over paid Deng, I know that and hes definitely not worth that, but at least when hes struggling on the offensive end, at least we know we would be getting a guy that can at least D up when hes struggling.

lol at believing that only guys who play on both sides of the ball are worth 10mil.

ChiSox219
05-05-2010, 09:31 PM
lol at believing that only guys who play on both sides of the ball are worth 10mil.

I dunno, there's a reason an Exec was quoted as saying Amare wasn't worth X million dollars.

kozelkid
05-05-2010, 09:33 PM
I dunno, there's a reason an Exec was quoted as saying Amare wasn't worth X million dollars.

(A) Value of defense for a big man is far more important than for a guard.
(B) I'd like to see the quote. I'm pretty sure there are other reasons like injuries.

ChiSox219
05-05-2010, 09:41 PM
(A) Value of defense for a big man is far more important than for a guard.
(B) I'd like to see the quote. I'm pretty sure there are other reasons like injuries.

It was partly based on the new CBA with players getting lower salaries but when asked about Amare the response from one exec was he wasn't worth 5/$60m.

Amare has the pizazz on offense to put fans in the seats but his game as a whole is tremendously overrated. No doubt he'll get more than 5/60m given how many teams have significant cap space.

In basketball you have two objectives, score and prevent the opponent from scoring. If you put a premium on offense and not defense you will not win a title.


Does Gordon's scoring ability outweigh his inabilities to do other things? Like Amare, I say no.

kozelkid
05-05-2010, 09:49 PM
It was partly based on the new CBA with players getting lower salaries but when asked about Amare the response from one exec was he wasn't worth 5/$60m.

Amare has the pizazz on offense to put fans in the seats but his game as a whole is tremendously overrated. No doubt he'll get more than 5/60m given how many teams have significant cap space.

In basketball you have two objectives, score and prevent the opponent from scoring. If you put a premium on offense and not defense you will not win a title.


Does Gordon's scoring ability outweigh his inabilities to do other things? Like Amare, I say no.

Ya, now I remember.
And I disagree, I believe the scoring of both outweigh their defense. Especially with the case of Gordon where his defense shouldn't hurt a properly constructed team. Case and point with the 06-07 Bulls that were a top defensive team. Now with Amare, it might be trickier.

ChiSox219
05-05-2010, 10:04 PM
Ya, now I remember.
And I disagree, I believe the scoring of both outweigh their defense. Especially with the case of Gordon where his defense shouldn't hurt a properly constructed team. Case and point with the 06-07 Bulls that were a top defensive team. Now with Amare, it might be trickier.

It goes back to putting a premium on defense, the Bulls had Gordon's scoring but $60m going to Ben Wallace. Don't forget we had Skiles and a team that was loaded with great perimeter defenders. BG and Malik Allen were the only Bulls to post a positive defensive +/-.

I wouldn't call that roster properly constructed as much as I would say it was loaded defensively (21stO/1stD). Did Gordon bring $10m worth of offense that year? I don't think so but that's my opinion. But Luol Deng sure as hell was.


Back to Amare for a second, I don't people realize how much Nash helps him. They run a great pick and roll, but how much is that because the defenders HAVE to go over screens instead of under? Nash is arguably the best shooter in the league and a great three point threat, what if Amare is playing with a guy without a 3ball like Wade, Rose or god-knows-who in New York?

chitownbulls
05-05-2010, 11:30 PM
heh, the Pistons were winners in the 80's, 90's, and 00's. History repeats itself. I understand some of yall bulls fans are bitter and frusterated, but just keep your heads up and maybe one day you'll make some noise for the first time in the 21st century. No reason to trash other teams.

Ahemmm.... I believe the Bulls were winners in the 90's....6 titles, what is that....3rd most in the nba? and we werent too bad in the late 80's either. Sure you guys were winners, but you only made 1 nba title in the 00's? Not only that last year you went from a competitor to 8th seed. This year not even making playoffs.:facepalm:


OH WAIT INJURIES SLOWED YOU DOWN THIS YEAR????????????? NOOOO. The Bulls had a perfectly healthy year.... Yea almost losing our entire lineup to injuries and going on a 10 game losing streak, but we still made the play offs.

Raoul Duke
05-05-2010, 11:35 PM
Deng is a better player than either Gordon or CV. I'll take Luol over anyone on the Pistons roster right now.

I dunno. I'd take Tay over Deng all day, but maybe that's because I've seen so much more of him so I have more to base an opinion on. Shrug.


Ben Wallace came in and the Bulls became the #1 defense in the league winning 49 games. He was eventually turned into Brad Miller and John Salmons who played a big role in last years playoff run.

Truth. The Bulls signed Big Ben to get them out of the first round, and he helped do exactly that.

Raoul Duke
05-05-2010, 11:36 PM
Ahemmm.... I believe the Bulls were winners in the 90's....6 titles, what is that....3rd most in the nba? and we werent too bad in the late 80's either. Sure you guys were winners, but you only made 1 nba title in the 00's? Not only that last year you went from a competitor to 8th seed. This year not even making playoffs.

Yeah, plus you guys have historically owned us in playoff games, right? RIGHT!?!?!?!
Oh wait...

itsripcity32
05-05-2010, 11:52 PM
It coulda been worse, we coulda signed Ben Wallace to a 60M contract at the end of his career, or paid a below average pg 10M a season in Hinrich, or gave an average forward an 80M contract in Deng.

you have read my mind

itsripcity32
05-05-2010, 11:55 PM
but as of right now, Ben Wallace is not on their books anymore and I'd rather rigve Hinrich a 8-9 million a year with now 3 years left...then 2 give Gordon and Charlie V all that money if you swapped that 2 for 1 Detroit wouldn't lose anything lol....Bucks fans well smart ones knew Charlie V was a waste...Those guys aren't impact players there what you call situational/stat whores.....it's going look worse in the future when salaries are going down and Charlie V is a top 12 paid PF lmao

lol if u want to trade hinrich, maybe u can give him to the lakers for what they offered last time, vujaic and walton

itsripcity32
05-05-2010, 11:57 PM
:laugh: You guys finally realize that Ben Gordon was unneed for the Bulls and it was smart to let him walk off, now he is officially a scrub and you guys seen the true colors of Ben Gordon. You guys sat there and bashed the hell out the Bulls for letting him walk and now you praise the Bulls for letting him walk. Once again us Bulls fans proven you guys wrong. Would you want to overpay Ben so he can put up medicore stats and lose the majority of the time like the Pistons? I don't think so!







Atleast Hinrich & Deng(playoffs team/winners) is better than Gordon & CV(scrubs team/losers).




Atleast you're the smart one that sees the whole picture.

yea thats why when u guys lost in 5 games, charles barkley and the tnt/espn screw were talkn bout u guys needing a shooter and a big man. guess hinrich's 9 mill isnt good enough to consider him a shooter for your team

itsripcity32
05-05-2010, 11:59 PM
No one listens to us Bulls fans, we've been saying this for years. Thats why we were all for letting him walk.

u guys let him walk cus he rejected ur guys 5 year 50 mill and 6 year contract offers.

ANKUSH
05-06-2010, 12:25 AM
It coulda been worse, we coulda signed Ben Wallace to a 60M contract at the end of his career, or paid a below average pg 10M a season in Hinrich, or gave an average forward an 80M contract in Deng.


burn

ryder78c
05-06-2010, 12:27 AM
all charlie v. needs to do is grow eyebrows. i can deal with the bald head but the guy looks like a albino freak. couldn't he get eyebrow tattoos?

:facepalm: not sure if this was said but charlie v has a disease where he cant grow hair

fadedmario
05-06-2010, 12:29 PM
It was actually 49, but anyways, not a good argument for us considering we were eliminated by the Pistons that year. Good series though.

I was at game 2 of that series

effen5
05-06-2010, 12:47 PM
u guys let him walk cus he rejected ur guys 5 year 50 mill and 6 year contract offers.

True, and I am glad he walked. You can deal with him. Its hilarious to me that he FINALLY got that big contract he wanted yet hes been injured more games this year alone then the previous 4-5 season with the Bulls.

Money well spent lmao :clap:

CashMoneyCubby
05-06-2010, 12:57 PM
u guys let him walk cus he rejected ur guys 5 year 50 mill and 6 year contract offers.

I was under the impression that we let him walk because Detroit had been negotiating with him and promised him a large contract before negotiations were supposed to have been held. Either way...I'm glad he made the Pistons a better team...

minervamob
05-06-2010, 12:57 PM
It coulda been worse, we coulda signed Ben Wallace to a 60M contract at the end of his career, or paid a below average pg 10M a season in Hinrich, or gave an average forward an 80M contract in Deng.

excuse me...even with those signings and prices the Bulls still remained competitive and are in a great position to land actual all-stars this summer. what the pistons did was ********. They spent all that money for bench players and no defense what so ever. Enjoy being under the Bulls for the next five years pistons...also how's Darko doin? They had their run and built a solid team, Joe Dumars was a gm genius. His judgment has fallen hard, also see Iverson for chauncy trade. I would take kirk and deng over ben and charlie anyday. I will close with simply stating Derrick Rose and Joakim Noah...

DetroitRipCity
05-06-2010, 01:18 PM
So i guess the bulls fans idea of a successful season is 1 and done ?

blams
05-06-2010, 01:40 PM
It coulda been worse, we coulda signed Ben Wallace to a 60M contract at the end of his career, or paid a below average pg 10M a season in Hinrich, or gave an average forward an 80M contract in Deng.

um...hmmm... we sign Big Ben, then get to the second round after sweeping the champion Heat in the first round....hmmmmm....

streetballa
05-06-2010, 01:56 PM
So i guess the bulls fans idea of a successful season is 1 and done ?

Oh and being .500 for the second straight time and 1 and done a second straight time.

But they have cap space to land ummm Boozer or Amare maybe?

Also people saying Gordon is overpaid the guy averaged from the 3pt line in his career....
40.5%, 43.5%, 41.3%, 41%, 41%. He had a career low of 32.1% last season which he was injured and playing on a bad ankle...F***in Nike Shoes.

Also to go with Noah I think CV would have been the perfect fit.

streetballa
05-06-2010, 01:59 PM
um...hmmm... we sign Big Ben, then get to the second round after sweeping the champion Heat in the first round....hmmmmm....

Do you guys remember what conference finals or NBA finals are like? I mean you guys haven't done much since MJ retired. Its been over a decade for you guys, and yet you try to trash us when we miss the playoffs for the first time in almost 10 years....really people?

fadedmario
05-06-2010, 02:04 PM
Do you guys remember what conference finals or NBA finals are like? I mean you guys haven't done much since MJ retired. Its been over a decade for you guys, and yet you try to trash us when we miss the playoffs for the first time in almost 10 years....really people?

x2

Raoul Duke
05-06-2010, 02:15 PM
I will close with simply stating Derrick Rose and Joakim Noah...

I'll reopen by simply saying, "so?"

You have two very talented, very young players. But then again you've had those a number of times over the last decade, and your inept front office has continually managed to screw it up. The Bulls went from Elton Brand being their "star of the future" to having Tyson Chandler/Eddie Curry as the "new twin towers" to calling Tyrus Thomas "the next Amare".

I've got a news flash for you: your front office has done a much worse job then ours for about a decade now. Truth hurts. Go ahead and call Joe D. out for his bad moves, but make sure you add in the caveat "he's still better than our GM".


um...hmmm... we sign Big Ben, then get to the second round after sweeping the champion Heat in the first round....hmmmmm....

Indeed, what a rousing success! Then you lost to The Detroit Pistons.

DetroitRipCity
05-06-2010, 03:40 PM
Do you guys remember what conference finals or NBA finals are like? I mean you guys haven't done much since MJ retired. Its been over a decade for you guys, and yet you try to trash us when we miss the playoffs for the first time in almost 10 years....really people?

x3

JWO35
05-06-2010, 03:49 PM
Do you guys remember what conference finals or NBA finals are like? I mean you guys haven't done much since MJ retired. Its been over a decade for you guys, and yet you try to trash us when we miss the playoffs for the first time in almost 10 years....really people?

Ding Ding Ding....Winner!

/thread

aZekuiS
05-06-2010, 03:58 PM
um...hmmm... we sign Big Ben, then get to the second round after sweeping the champion Heat in the first round....hmmmmm....

Then what team beat you? Oh, that's right. Then you didn't make the playoffs the next season then traded him lol, how is that not a bad signing?

aZekuiS
05-06-2010, 04:05 PM
Also on Ben Wallace, he was one of the best defensive players at that time, and we needed a big man that could actually play defense and rebound (unlike Tyson Chandler that skinny ****) playing at an all star level....

BG will never NEVER be an all star.

Neither will Hinrich or Deng.

ChiSox219
05-06-2010, 04:06 PM
Lol at Pistons fans bringing up history like their team has the hardware to back it...

I like the Pistons, I went to game 7 wearing a Billups jersey. That said, they are in the worst position of any team in the league right now.

JayAllDay
05-06-2010, 04:16 PM
Million dollars only get randomly given out for publisher's clearinghouse NOT the NBA.

They're just not the pieces Detroit was looking for... AT ALL.

It looks ridiculously random now, but I'm sure Dumars had some kind of a vision.

netsgiantsyanks
05-06-2010, 04:47 PM
Lol since when are Hinrich & Deng winners? Rip & Prince themselves are more accomplished than the entire bulls team combined. I understand you guys were super excited to get to the playoffs this season, but the Pistons got to the finals or ecf every year, the goal is to win rings not become mediocre like the Bulls.

:laugh: I've never heard anyone being so excited for his team being a 1 & done playoff team.

Now go stare & drool at your Derrick Rose fathead you douche.

no comment

td0tsfinest
05-06-2010, 05:02 PM
I was really confused when these signings happened. Detroit went from a team that some of the best defenders in the league to employing a couple of offensive minded guys.

effen5
05-06-2010, 05:11 PM
So i guess the bulls fans idea of a successful season is 1 and done ?

Detroit is the definition of 1 and done.

Sure you guys have made the ECF almost every year but what happened the last two years? Bulls only missed the playoffs once in the past 5-6 years and that was a blessing in disguise because who did we get? Derrick Rose.

JWO35
05-06-2010, 05:17 PM
And also, why do people keep saying the Bulls are in a good position? They would be in an excellent position if they get D-Wade through Free Agency, or if they get Bosh, or if they get LeBron. What if none of this happen, what if the Heat sign Wade and Bosh and LeBron gets a championship and stays in Cleveland.

Then What? They overpay someone like Carlos Boozer. The Bulls future rest heavily on IFs. Right now the Bulls are a one and done team, with no reliable second guy to go along with D Rose.

effen5
05-06-2010, 05:21 PM
Do you guys remember what conference finals or NBA finals are like? I mean you guys haven't done much since MJ retired. Its been over a decade for you guys, and yet you try to trash us when we miss the playoffs for the first time in almost 10 years....really people?

Oh cool story bro...so you missed the playoffs for the first time in almost 10 years...what do you have to show for it? 1 championship? OH OKAY.

And of course I remember what the NBA Finals are like, I remember what a 72-10 season felt like, I remember what 6 championships felt like, I remember what having the greatest player play for a team is like...Lets keep bringing up more history that has absolutely nothing to do with anything.

effen5
05-06-2010, 05:21 PM
And also, why do people keep saying the Bulls are in a good position? They would be in an excellent position if they get D-Wade through Free Agency, or if they get Bosh, or if they get LeBron. What if none of this happen, what if the Heat sign Wade and Bosh and LeBron gets a championship and stays in Cleveland.

Then What? They overpay someone like Carlos Boozer. The Bulls future rest heavily on IFs. Right now the Bulls are a one and done team, with no reliable second guy to go along with D Rose.

How are we a one and done team? Explain? If anything, you guys are the one and done team. One championship....then fail every year afterwards. One and DONE.

Also at least we have "ifs" you guys don't. You guys screwed your self overpaying BG and CV

streetballa
05-06-2010, 05:36 PM
How are we a one and done team? Explain? If anything, you guys are the one and done team. One championship....then fail every year afterwards. One and DONE.

Also at least we have "ifs" you guys don't. You guys screwed your self overpaying BG and CV

How many championship have you won without Michael Jordan? 0

How many times have you won a playoff series without Michael Jordan? 1

How many division titles since Jordan? 0

Man your whole history is based off one era.....

I would take Detroit's front office any day over Chicago's. You guys are still recovering from MJ's retirement

slack_justin
05-06-2010, 06:01 PM
Detroit is the definition of 1 and done.

Sure you guys have made the ECF almost every year but what happened the last two years? Bulls only missed the playoffs once in the past 5-6 years and that was a blessing in disguise because who did we get? Derrick Rose.

How is Detroit the definition again? didnt u just explain how you were wrong all in the same post?

JWO35
05-06-2010, 06:03 PM
How are we a one and done team? Explain? If anything, you guys are the one and done team. One championship....then fail every year afterwards. One and DONE.

Also at least we have "ifs" you guys don't. You guys screwed your self overpaying BG and CV

I was referring to the Playoffs(1rd then eliminated). But if that's the case(What's in bold) then This whole Decade the Bulls were irrelevant.

slack_justin
05-06-2010, 06:04 PM
And dont come at me all crazy either. i agree chicago is in a descent position If they get 1 Superstar. But quite a few teams are.

effen5
05-06-2010, 06:06 PM
One and done teams imo are teams that won a title but couldn't win it again. The pistons, the heat, if celtics don't win this year and decide to rebuild they are one and done team.

effen5
05-06-2010, 06:09 PM
How many championship have you won without Michael Jordan? 0

How many times have you won a playoff series without Michael Jordan? 1

How many division titles since Jordan? 0

Man your whole history is based off one era.....

I would take Detroit's front office any day over Chicago's. You guys are still recovering from MJ's retirement

Lol? again let's bring history up when it has nothing to do with anything. Btw our one era changed the nba....u mad?

effen5
05-06-2010, 06:11 PM
I was referring to the Playoffs(1rd then eliminated). But if that's the case(What's in bold) then This whole Decade the Bulls were irrelevant.

That I agree with, bulls were irrelevant in the 00

DetroitRipCity
05-06-2010, 06:14 PM
That I agree with, bulls were irrelevant in the 00

Dammit i didnt get to finish showing this

EDIT: Ill do it anyway

2000-01
Detroit 32-50 Missed Playoffs
Chicago 15-67 Missed Playoffs

2001-02
Detroit 50-32 2nd Seed, 2nd Round
Chicago 21-61 Missed Playoffs

2002-03
Detroit 50-32 1st Seed ECF app
Chicago 30-52 Missed Playoffs

2003-04
Detroit 54-28 3rd Seed ECF Win Nba Title
Chicago 23-59 Missed Playoffs

2004-05
Detroit 54-28 2nd Seed ECF Win
Chicago 47-35 4th Seed 1st Round

2005-06
Detroit 64-18 1st Seed ECF app
Chicago 41-41 7th Seed 1st Round

2006-2007
Detroit 53-29 1st Seed ECF app
Chicago 49-33 5th Seed 2nd Round

2007-08
Detroit 59-23 2nd Seed ECF app
Chicago 33-49 Missed Playoffs

2008-09
Detroit 39-43 8th Seed 1st Round
Chicago 41-41 7th 1st Round

2009-10
Detroit 27-55 Missed Playoffs
Chicago 41-41 8th Seed 1st Round

http://www.shrpsports.com/nba/stand/2004finaldiv.htm

ryder78c
05-06-2010, 06:29 PM
Bulls got more upside
but if pistons get #1 or #2 draft pick Wall or Turner
Trade Prince(Nets,Clippers,Twolves),Hamilton(Nets,Knicks ),(Stuckey,Bynum - alot of teams i'd take either on the blazers for Rudy &or bayless)big ben(thunder) or gordon(Knicks,twolves,clippers) or Charlie V(thunder,Knicks) teams that could use them and have cap
they could pick up some good players or just dump there contracts

Team*Chicago
05-07-2010, 12:59 AM
Lol since when are Hinrich & Deng winners? Rip & Prince themselves are more accomplished than the entire bulls team combined. I understand you guys were super excited to get to the playoffs this season, but the Pistons got to the finals or ecf every year, the goal is to win rings not become mediocre like the Bulls.

:laugh: I've never heard anyone being so excited for his team being a 1 & done playoff team.

Now go stare & drool at your Derrick Rose fathead you douche.


Of course those dinosaur players(Rip and Prince) accomplished more than the entire Bulls team did because they are way older and played in the NBA far longer than the entire team did, the Bulls are the 3rd youngest team in the NBA and of course they are going to put up medicore performance in the playoffs. Plus I was talking mainly about how pathetic Ben Gordon and Franklinstein CV are compared to Deng and Hinrich.

Atleast the Bulls didn’t get swept like everybody else said they were and was almost able to pull 2 wins especially one in Cleveland against the Refs and the Cavs. And the Bulls wasn’t afraid of the Cavaliers like the Pistons were last year before they got effortlessly destroyed.


yea thats why when u guys lost in 5 games, charles barkley and the tnt/espn screw were talkn bout u guys needing a shooter and a big man. guess hinrich's 9 mill isnt good enough to consider him a shooter for your team

The Bulls don’t need no shooter that scores 13 points per game that’s lame and a shame. And it almost went to 6 games.

iFYouSeekAmy
05-07-2010, 01:15 AM
Interweb drama!

Sixerlover
05-07-2010, 01:28 AM
Wow Bulls fans sure have gotten cocky since they made the playoffs a couple years. Don't forget what 2000-2009 held for the Pistons.

How many lottery picks did Chicago have in that time span btw? Serious question.

effen5
05-07-2010, 10:49 AM
Wow Bulls fans sure have gotten cocky since they made the playoffs a couple years. Don't forget what 2000-2009 held for the Pistons.

How many lottery picks did Chicago have in that time span btw? Serious question.

5

3 out of those 5 didn't even count, they started a new era when they brought Pax in.

And jay williams (IDIOT!!!!!!!) getting into the motorcycle crash FUUUUUUUu

shyfly24
05-07-2010, 01:05 PM
:laugh: You guys finally realize that Ben Gordon was unneed for the Bulls and it was smart to let him walk off, now he is officially a scrub and you guys seen the true colors of Ben Gordon. You guys sat there and bashed the hell out the Bulls for letting him walk and now you praise the Bulls for letting him walk. Once again us Bulls fans proven you guys wrong. Would you want to overpay Ben so he can put up medicore stats and lose the majority of the time like the Pistons? I don't think so!







Atleast Hinrich & Deng(playoffs team/winners) is better than Gordon & CV(scrubs team/losers).

all those people you quoted in the beginning weren't even piston fans. lol

hinrich and deng playoff winners??????
:facepalm:
whats the farthest your team has gone into the playoffs with those "winners"??
the last decade our team competed for rings..division titles..best records..where yours competed for mediocrity.

your team is by far the most inconsistent team in the league...the pistons have been consistent for over a decade now and your gonna bash us after 1 year?
i'd rather have this team then yours who are no shows one year and avg the next.

shyfly24
05-07-2010, 01:11 PM
ironically our team had a much better record than yours with our bad signings...

And what do you have to show for it?..
lebron killing your team by himself and you guys getting no good draft pick..
ya...you guys are the real winners here.

fadedmario
05-07-2010, 01:12 PM
I actually like Derrick Rose (look at some of my older posts). That being said something I'm starting to notice in the Nba Forum is sounding very familar. Every topic somehow turns into a debate about the Chicago Bulls. You Chicago fans need to learn to take it easy or no one in here will ever want to respond to Bulls threads.

Pierzynski4Prez
05-07-2010, 01:20 PM
I actually like Derrick Rose (look at some of my older posts). That being said something I'm starting to notice in the Nba Forum is sounding very familar. Every topic somehow turns into a debate about the Chicago Bulls. You Chicago fans need to learn to take it easy or no one in here will ever want to respond to Bulls threads.

That is our plan.

shyfly24
05-07-2010, 01:27 PM
I will close with simply stating Derrick Rose and Joakim Noah...

not all teams can get lucky like you guys and get the number one pick.
werent you guys like the 9th worst team??...what wouldve happened if you hadnt gotten rose?

SirCalvin81
05-07-2010, 01:52 PM
No one listens to us Bulls fans, we've been saying this for years. Thats why we were all for letting him walk.

thats y the bulls offered him a big contract and he still left.

SirCalvin81
05-07-2010, 01:54 PM
ironically our team had a much better record than yours with our bad signings...

funny bulls fan, 1 year isnt anything. lets look at the past 10 years

aZekuiS
05-07-2010, 02:14 PM
wow bulls fans sure have gotten cocky since they made the playoffs a couple years. Don't forget what 2000-2009 held for the pistons.

How many lottery picks did chicago have in that time span btw? Serious question.

+1

streetballa
05-07-2010, 02:30 PM
Lol? again let's bring history up when it has nothing to do with anything. Btw our one era changed the nba....u mad?

Not at all because we will be back...you guys have yet to really be back since then

You missed the point we have a better front office and I am less likely to question moves. I will let one more season play out before I say these moves were random because I can see how it could work with a healthy roster.

BG and CV playing a pick and roll could be deadly, both can hit the three and drive the ball....I still say CV has a quick first step for a pf

b1e9a8r5s
05-07-2010, 02:38 PM
And also, why do people keep saying the Bulls are in a good position? They would be in an excellent position if they get D-Wade through Free Agency, or if they get Bosh, or if they get LeBron. What if none of this happen, what if the Heat sign Wade and Bosh and LeBron gets a championship and stays in Cleveland.

Then What? They overpay someone like Carlos Boozer. The Bulls future rest heavily on IFs. Right now the Bulls are a one and done team, with no reliable second guy to go along with D Rose.

Or they wait for Carmello in a year? They have options, therefore they are in a better situation. Detroit did exactly what the Bulls shouldn't do. Over pay for whats left. Again, BG and CV are good players but they aren't worth what they were paid and it has set the franchise back as they have no money to sign other players.

b1e9a8r5s
05-07-2010, 02:40 PM
thats y the bulls offered him a big contract and he still left.

The Bulls offered him 5/50 the year before he left. He turned it down (thank god) and they didn't offer him anything when he was restricted.

effen5
05-07-2010, 03:31 PM
Not at all because we will be back...you guys have yet to really be back since then

You missed the point we have a better front office and I am less likely to question moves. I will let one more season play out before I say these moves were random because I can see how it could work with a healthy roster.

BG and CV playing a pick and roll could be deadly, both can hit the three and drive the ball....I still say CV has a quick first step for a pf

So let me get this straight....we're not allowed to have a bad decade? I mean this decade wasn't even atrocious, making the playoffs after drafting players like Fizer and having players like EROB, this decade ended well but we're not allowed to have a bad decade?

Do you see the parrallel between the Bulls and Pistons in the past 3 decades?

80's Bad Boys era
90's Bad decade
00's back to being good again

Bulls
90's MJ Era
00 Bad Decade
10's Drose Era


You dont see any similarities between that?

effen5
05-07-2010, 03:34 PM
all those people you quoted in the beginning weren't even piston fans. lol

hinrich and deng playoff winners??????
:facepalm:
whats the farthest your team has gone into the playoffs with those "winners"??
the last decade our team competed for rings..division titles..best records..where yours competed for mediocrity.

your team is by far the most inconsistent team in the league...the pistons have been consistent for over a decade now and your gonna bash us after 1 year?
i'd rather have this team then yours who are no shows one year and avg the next.

Again history means **** who gives a **** how you did in the past, its about the future. I can say this ... While you guys were a joke in the 90s, we were raping every team...True story. It means NOTHING.

And yes the Pistons were consistent, but guess what, they lost the player who brought that consistancy...Billups....

streetballa
05-07-2010, 05:44 PM
So let me get this straight....we're not allowed to have a bad decade? I mean this decade wasn't even atrocious, making the playoffs after drafting players like Fizer and having players like EROB, this decade ended well but we're not allowed to have a bad decade?

Do you see the parrallel between the Bulls and Pistons in the past 3 decades?

80's Bad Boys era
90's Bad decade
00's back to being good again

Bulls
90's MJ Era
00 Bad Decade
10's Drose Era


You dont see any similarities between that?

Sure there is a parallel in some ways, but do not give D-Rose his own era yet please, he isn't even top 5 point guards to me yet, CP3, Williams, Billups, Rondo, Nash are all better. He will be the 4-5 best when Billups and Nash hang up their sneakers assuming Collison, Wall, Lawson or others do not prove themselves better.

streetballa
05-07-2010, 05:55 PM
Also be careful in Chicago you guys have 6 players contracted after this season Gibson, Rose, Noah, Deng, Hinrich, Johnson......If Lebron stays or goes else where same with Wade, and Bosh goes elsewhere you guys are going to be in a worse situation than us. You already have an overpaid SF so getting Melo would be worse then us getting Gordon. Boozer would be a good fit, Amare would be a horrible signing IMO.

Be careful in Chicago, it is not as nice of a location for FA as you would think, not that Detroit would be much better right now. Hope for your sake you guys get a big name coach before July 1st or it could be a bad summer.

ChiSox219
05-07-2010, 06:22 PM
I actually like Derrick Rose (look at some of my older posts). That being said something I'm starting to notice in the Nba Forum is sounding very familar. Every topic somehow turns into a debate about the Chicago Bulls. You Chicago fans need to learn to take it easy or no one in here will ever want to respond to Bulls threads.

I agree but this was the first post to bring not only the Bulls but team history into the discussion:


It coulda been worse, we coulda signed Ben Wallace to a 60M contract at the end of his career, or paid a below average pg 10M a season in Hinrich, or gave an average forward an 80M contract in Deng.

I don't see how this is relevant to discussing the current Pistons roster.



Also be careful in Chicago you guys have 6 players contracted after this season Gibson, Rose, Noah, Deng, Hinrich, Johnson......If Lebron stays or goes else where same with Wade, and Bosh goes elsewhere you guys are going to be in a worse situation than us. You already have an overpaid SF so getting Melo would be worse then us getting Gordon. Boozer would be a good fit, Amare would be a horrible signing IMO.

Be careful in Chicago, it is not as nice of a location for FA as you would think, not that Detroit would be much better right now. Hope for your sake you guys get a big name coach before July 1st or it could be a bad summer.

Five of those players form our core, which means we need three more players if you discount James Johnson. Of those five, four are 25 or under.

We have ~$20 million in cap space and a pick in the middle of the first round. The whole point of clearing cap space this year is because the free agent class is loaded top to bottom, we don't have to get one of the top three to be put into a position to contend.

Luol Deng is being paid the market value for his production. Calling him overpaid is inaccurate. But let's say we somehow added Carmelo, Luol has the size to play occasional PF and the ego to come off the bench and be successful. In fact, if Luol came off the bench for 30mpg his efficiency will go up and his body will hold up longer.

streetballa
05-07-2010, 06:39 PM
Prince=Deng
Gordon and Rip both>Hinrich (idk what you guys are doing for sg)
Jonas=Gibson
Stuckey<Rose and Hinrich (because he has the 3)
Wallace < Noah

Then we have depth at PF and SF on the bench. Give us a center and some upgrade at PG then we will be back in the mix

ChiSox219
05-07-2010, 07:10 PM
Prince=Deng
Gordon and Rip both>Hinrich (idk what you guys are doing for sg)
Jonas=Gibson
Stuckey<Rose and Hinrich (because he has the 3)
Wallace < Noah

Then we have depth at PF and SF on the bench. Give us a center and some upgrade at PG then we will be back in the mix


Deng had a slightly better season than Prince and with the age difference the gap is likely to widen next season. If we go outside the box score, Deng and Prince both have "intangibles" such as good man and help defense.

In the future I can't say who will be better but the Bulls intention is hopefully to start Bosh/Boozer/Amare and use Gibson as a great bench option.

If you want to compare Stuckey and Hinrich, I think it's an interesting discussion since both are essentially used as combo guards. But like I said we have about $20 million in cap space so if we added a big name PF, we still have money left over for a SG like Mike Miller or Kyle Korver, etc. Also, we can look for a Xavier Henry or other SG in the 1st round.

Noah vs Wallace is very close right now, closer than anyone admits/knows. But again, big gap in age is going to see Noah pull away next year.

Gordon and Rip are both overpaid two guards and that combo is killing the Pistons roster and flexibility. Rip is old, his production is going to tank and his contract doesn't expire to 2013. Gordon is a fine shooter but he doesn't do much without the ball in his hands, and even when he has the ball, he can't create for himself or others. I love him as a sixth man and he's played the role wonderfully before but I don't believe in spending cap space to add a player like that, needing him to be a great player.

Pistons don't have a player to compare to Rose unless they win the lottery, which is possible.

KingOf215
05-07-2010, 07:17 PM
Signing Gordon & Charlie V. were obviously big mistakes, just like drafting Darko #2... Nice job Joe Dumars.

effen5
05-07-2010, 07:35 PM
Prince=Deng
Gordon and Rip both>Hinrich (idk what you guys are doing for sg)
Jonas=Gibson
Stuckey<Rose and Hinrich (because he has the 3)
Wallace < Noah

Then we have depth at PF and SF on the bench. Give us a center and some upgrade at PG then we will be back in the mix

who is Jonas :confused:

ChiSox219
05-07-2010, 07:48 PM
who is Jonas :confused:

Jerebko

shyfly24
05-07-2010, 08:13 PM
Again history means **** who gives a **** how you did in the past, its about the future. I can say this ... While you guys were a joke in the 90s, we were raping every team...True story. It means NOTHING.

And yes the Pistons were consistent, but guess what, they lost the player who brought that consistancy...Billups....

how did we "lose" billups? we traded him because we werent gonna get out of the conf finals with him...it was 6 straight ecf and the same results...our main core logged in a lot of minutes and werent getting any younger...it was time for a change...we needed to get younger and thats what dumars is doing.

i dunno how you guys are gonna sit up there and diss on gordon...he singlehandedly took that celtic series to 7 games and almost won it.

NetsPaint
05-07-2010, 08:18 PM
They would have been better off keeping signing Iverson. Awful signings.

JWO35
05-07-2010, 08:24 PM
They would have been better off keeping signing Iverson. Awful signings.

So he can get drunk and retire?

ChiSox219
05-07-2010, 08:24 PM
how did we "lose" billups? we traded him because we werent gonna get out of the conf finals with him...it was 6 straight ecf and the same results...our main core logged in a lot of minutes and werent getting any younger...it was time for a change...we needed to get younger and thats what dumars is doing.

i dunno how you guys are gonna sit up there and diss on gordon...he singlehandedly took that celtic series to 7 games and almost won it.

No he didn't, he was our third most important player that series and his best games all came in losses.

NetsPaint
05-07-2010, 08:26 PM
So he can get drunk and retire?

They'd still have cap space.

Detroit is a clear example of spending money just to spend money. Obviously they weren't gonna get LeBron or Wade, but yeah. Could have gotten a lot better even with less money.

Vincent
05-07-2010, 08:29 PM
how did we "lose" billups? we traded him because we werent gonna get out of the conf finals with him...it was 6 straight ecf and the same results...our main core logged in a lot of minutes and werent getting any younger...it was time for a change...we needed to get younger and thats what dumars is doing.

i dunno how you guys are gonna sit up there and diss on gordon...he singlehandedly took that celtic series to 7 games and almost won it.

He singlehandedly shot the Bulls out of a lot of games last year.

You just don't see those games on Sportscenter highlights.

JWO35
05-07-2010, 08:35 PM
They'd still have cap space.

Detroit is a clear example of spending money just to spend money. Obviously they weren't gonna get LeBron or Wade, but yeah. Could have gotten a lot better even with less money.

It doesn't matter, people are going to hate on anything everyone do(people even question the Lakers for signing Ron Artest and letting Ariza walk). If we would have waited for the 2010 Summer, and sign someone like Rudy Gay...and fail to make the playoffs people will all be like "All what a waste of money, they totally overpaid him".

I mean really the only reason this thread is up is because the Pistons failed to make the playoffs. If next season the Pistons win the Championship, you wouldn't hear one person say it was a bad signing...everyone would say it was great FA pickups. That's why this is all opinions and opinions changes upon results.

ChiSox219
05-07-2010, 08:39 PM
It doesn't matter, people are going to hate on anything everyone do(people even question the Lakers for signing Ron Artest and letting Ariza walk). If we would have waited for the 2010 Summer, and sign someone like Rudy Gay...and fail to make the playoffs people will all be like "All what a waste of money, they totally overpaid him".

I mean really the only reason this thread is up is because the Pistons failed to make the playoffs. If next season the Pistons win the Championship, you wouldn't hear one person say it was a bad signing...everyone would say it was great FA pickups. That's why this is all opinions and opinions changes upon results.

I'll give you 10:1 the Pistons don't win the title next year

shyfly24
05-07-2010, 08:46 PM
I'll give you 10:1 the Pistons don't win the title next year

you totally missed the point he was making

streetballa
05-07-2010, 11:25 PM
Gordon is maybe slightly overpaid (I still do not think he is). He shoots over 40% from behind the arc (except in his injury plagued year), and can take over a game with scoring at times. He could easily be an all-star type player and depending on the roster make up be in the running for scoring title. I will give it one more injury-free year before I call it a bad signing....

Also I do not think Pistons have any chance at the title next season, but that is not what he was getting at. If the former iron-man in the NBA, in Prince, didn't go down with injury same with Rip in the first game of the season, and Gordon for a chunk of the season, we would of probably contended for the 8th seed. F***ing Nike!!!

Edit: forgot about Will "the thrill" Bynum too

effen5
05-07-2010, 11:41 PM
He singlehandedly shot the Bulls out of a lot of games last year.

You just don't see those games on Sportscenter highlights.

He probably lost more games then he won for us. He seriously shot so many awful shots that took the Bulls out of a rythem it was just horrendous.

Ragun
05-07-2010, 11:41 PM
I thought they would at least be starters and they'd try to get rid of Hamilton in order to maximize Gordon.

What were they thinking? :confused:

yeah pretty ****ed. now they are stuck with both contracts for a while.

Ragun
05-07-2010, 11:42 PM
He probably lost more games then he won for us. He seriously shot so many awful shots that took the Bulls out of a rythem it was just horrendous.

true. didnt seem to have good IQ.

BlazingInferno
05-08-2010, 12:32 AM
So many damn PG's to trade for.....
My advice....Go after Ty Lawson/Collison. Backup PG's who can get it done

chitownbulls
05-08-2010, 09:56 AM
Why are people saying the bulls are only going for wade, lebron, and bosh????:facepalm:

We are open to many other players. In case you guys don't know we have other options in this agency. Detroit has none. No cap space, and I have yet to see someone express interest to go to Detroit..