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View Full Version : Bruce Levine: Castro will be the Cubs starting shortstop as soon as next week.



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scrubs101
04-28-2010, 01:22 PM
one month from now at the latest. Per ESPN1000

his opinion of course

gocubs2118
04-28-2010, 01:26 PM
So is Theriot being traded? This is way too soon.

Randall Simon
04-28-2010, 01:26 PM
due to what...a trade of Theriot?

scrubs101
04-28-2010, 01:34 PM
Theriot to 2nd if he's not traded

Randall Simon
04-28-2010, 01:38 PM
Z to the pen & now Riot to 2nd. Lou is slowly ruining this team.

PunkShizzle
04-28-2010, 01:38 PM
Seeing as it's still April - I'd say Lou's ruining the team pretty quickly

gocubs2118
04-28-2010, 01:40 PM
You guys think this is all Lou? I would say Hendry has more to do with this than Lou does.

dawgin
04-28-2010, 01:40 PM
how is lou ruining this team if castro is as good as advertised what is everyone worried about. and as for z i have a feeling he will be traded soon maybe this is how they are gonna get him to waive his ntc by making him mad

scrubs101
04-28-2010, 01:41 PM
You guys think this is all Lou? I would say Hendry has more to do with this than Lou does.

of course its Hendry

Randy Bush is at AA right now and will report to JH soon about his advice on Castro is what Bruce is saying...

poodski
04-28-2010, 01:41 PM
Wow dum dum dum dum dum.

Brad IBCB
04-28-2010, 01:46 PM
I don't see this happening, even within a month. He's still got something to prove at Iowa.

Plus, whose spot on the 25 does he take? Baker's? I'm not sure im ready to just let him go.

* Just noticed that Castro is only four months older than me. Wow.

StrandedCub
04-28-2010, 01:47 PM
Not that I would agree with the decision of bringing Castro up soon, but I don't quite think that it would ruin this team. Would I rather they just promote Castro to AAA? Absolutely. But I don't quite find this the end of the world by any means if it were to go down..

cowboydoc45
04-28-2010, 01:47 PM
The only way this isn't a huge mistake is if we are trading Theriot (which SD has expressed interest in), and even then it would be a mistake...

If he is the real deal, it could work. If he is feasting on bad pitching, it will show.

DamnGoat
04-28-2010, 01:47 PM
You guys think this is all Lou? I would say Hendry has more to do with this than Lou does.
Yeah, seems like Hendry more than Lou. I'm gonna laugh if he's brought up and Lou just sits him on the bench in favor of Scrappy.

And it's gonna take a while to get used to your new avatar...I didn't know who the hell you were at first Freddy Hoiberg.

poodski
04-28-2010, 01:49 PM
Honestly if we replace Theriot with Castro right now with Theriot having a better OBP than Castro put up last year in AA. I dont know how I could support the team past that point.

Yagyu+
04-28-2010, 01:58 PM
Levine speculated that this was Hendry's call. Buy they would only do it if Lou agreed that Castro could start 5-6 games a week.

Matchstckman
04-28-2010, 01:59 PM
World Series here we come!

Mell413
04-28-2010, 02:03 PM
I'm only for this if Theriot is traded for relief help.

Yagyu+
04-28-2010, 02:06 PM
I'm only for this if Theriot is traded for relief help.

Would you be for it if he shifted to second and either Baker or, dare I say it, Fontenot were traded?

cowboydoc45
04-28-2010, 02:08 PM
Would you be for it if he shifted to second and either Baker or, dare I say it, Fontenot were traded?

No.

EJS2590
04-28-2010, 02:08 PM
i'm gonna go ahead and say there is a 0% chance this happens. i don't know why but it just seems like ********. not a smart thing to do.

Mell413
04-28-2010, 02:10 PM
Would you be for it if he shifted to second and either Baker or, dare I say it, Fontenot were traded?

Well I could probably tolerate it if they platooned Fonty/Theriot, but we both know that is not going to happen. I doubt Theriot could out hit the Fonty/Baker platoon. I'd assume Theriot has the most trade value.

poodski
04-28-2010, 02:11 PM
The only way this isn't a huge mistake is if we are trading Theriot (which SD has expressed interest in), and even then it would be a mistake...

If he is the real deal, it could work. If he is feasting on bad pitching, it will show.

Why would SD want him when they have a better SS most likely already in Everth Cabrera?

ty_smitty21
04-28-2010, 02:13 PM
Yes the cubs should wait until June for this move.

But what are you guys talkin about? If this happened, theriot would move to 2nd, and Tracy would be released. Baker would be backup of ramirez at 3rd.

cowboydoc45
04-28-2010, 02:15 PM
Yes the cubs should wait until June for this move.

But what are you guys talkin about? If this happened, theriot would move to 2nd, and Tracy would be released. Baker would be backup of ramirez at 3rd.

Then who would fans fall 14 feet from the stands to see... :shrug:

Vandelay16
04-28-2010, 02:15 PM
Trade of Fontenot probably, Theriot moves to second, Castro at short and Baker is the back up. And release Tracy.

Yagyu+
04-28-2010, 02:19 PM
No.


Well I could probably tolerate it if they platooned Fonty/Theriot, but we both know that is not going to happen. I doubt Theriot could out hit the Fonty/Baker platoon. I'd assume Theriot has the most trade value.

I'm not saying I'm in favor of the move, I was just curious. I'm in no rush to bring Castro up, but it sounds like they want him to get his feet wet sooner rather than later. It wouldn't surprise me if this was all trade related. I've no idea what Hendry is up to or which pieces would be moved. The potential blockbuster deal that was mentioned recently can't just be for relief pitching, can it?

cowboydoc45
04-28-2010, 02:22 PM
I'm not saying I'm in favor of the move, I was just curious. I'm in no rush to bring Castro up, but it sounds like they want him to get his feet wet sooner rather than later. It wouldn't surprise me if this was all trade related. I've no idea what Hendry is up to or which pieces would be moved. The potential blockbuster deal that was mentioned recently can't just be for relief pitching, can it?

It could, you can never tell. I just hope it isn't a blockbuster for the other team, and a ball buster for us... :mad:

Mell413
04-28-2010, 02:22 PM
I'm not saying I'm in favor of the move, I was just curious. I'm in no rush to bring Castro up, but it sounds like they want him to get his feet wet sooner rather than later. It wouldn't surprise me if this was all trade related. I've no idea what Hendry is up to or which pieces would be moved. The potential blockbuster deal that was mentioned recently can't just be for relief pitching, can it?

Besides a 2B I don't know what we can do with the offense. Most of the guys are locked in. Relief pitching is the only weakness I see at the moment.

Yagyu+
04-28-2010, 02:29 PM
Besides a 2B I don't know what we can do with the offense. Most of the guys are locked in. Relief pitching is the only weakness I see at the moment.

I feel like there's got to be some contract Handry is working on moving. Be it Zambrano, Soriano, Fukudome, or even try to flip Silva? I'm well aware of the NTC complications. It's also early in the season. We'll soon see, I suppose. If this Castro business holds any water, sooner than expected?

Jilly Bohnson
04-28-2010, 02:32 PM
Theriot + prospects to the Tigers for relief help?

Jilly Bohnson
04-28-2010, 02:34 PM
Honestly if we replace Theriot with Castro right now with Theriot having a better OBP than Castro put up last year in AA. I dont know how I could support the team past that point.

Theriot's production this year is almost purely BABIP driven though. 2 years running now his walks are trending downward and his K's are trending up. Not to mention outside of about a two week stretch last year he's shown no power. Castro probably won't be that much worse then him, and if Theriot can help net us a quality right handed reliever that'd probably more than offset the difference.

Yagyu+
04-28-2010, 02:37 PM
Theriot + prospects to the Tigers for relief help?

Clearly this means Silva for Peavy.

gocubs2118
04-28-2010, 02:39 PM
Yeah, seems like Hendry more than Lou. I'm gonna laugh if he's brought up and Lou just sits him on the bench in favor of Scrappy.

And it's gonna take a while to get used to your new avatar...I didn't know who the hell you were at first Freddy Hoiberg.

:laugh2: Your like the 6th person who has told me that.

chicagofan71
04-28-2010, 02:46 PM
Theriot + prospects to the Tigers for relief help?

How bout Gorzo+Theriot + a spec for Gregerson and Bell?

chicagofan71
04-28-2010, 02:47 PM
Theriot's production this year is almost purely BABIP driven though. 2 years running now his walks are trending downward and his K's are trending up. Not to mention outside of about a two week stretch last year he's shown no power. Castro probably won't be that much worse then him, and if Theriot can help net us a quality right handed reliever that'd probably more than offset the difference.

IMO Castro could almost match Theriot's production at this point. Like I've said, Theriot/Fonty platoon at 2nd, Castro at SS

redwhitenblue
04-28-2010, 03:04 PM
This could be very good if Theriot+Gorzy can net us a solid reliever (doubt it) or really bad if Castro struggles and becomes Pie-like in fan appreciation.

Diehdcubsfan2
04-28-2010, 03:06 PM
I know Castro is owning right now, but why call him up. At least give him a few more months smashing minor league pitching. I mean hes only 20, hes not aging anytime soon. Theriot is doing pretty damn well this season, I know his ceiling is only a mid 2 win player, but for now, I'll take that.

The good news is Theriot can net us a BP arm in a package deal.

Brad IBCB
04-28-2010, 03:06 PM
Theriot's production this year is almost purely BABIP driven though. 2 years running now his walks are trending downward and his K's are trending up. Not to mention outside of about a two week stretch last year he's shown no power. Castro probably won't be that much worse then him, and if Theriot can help net us a quality right handed reliever that'd probably more than offset the difference.

+

CubbieSteve
04-28-2010, 03:13 PM
Don't see why we would move Theriot to 2nd, what's wrong with the Fontenot/Baker platoon?

But yeah if Theriot is moved for a reliever this makes more sense.

giventofly
04-28-2010, 03:17 PM
Theriot + prospects to the Tigers for relief help?
I had the Tigers in mind as well, but I think Gorzelanny might get the boot here. After all, Zambrano was promised his rotation spot back soon enough, and if we're getting relief help, he can move right back and we'd still have a shortstop.

windycityD
04-28-2010, 03:18 PM
Chance Castro is our everyday SS before July 31st: 0%

giventofly
04-28-2010, 03:19 PM
Chance Castro is our everyday SS before July 31st: 0%
Honestly, I wouldn't be so sure.

Matchstckman
04-28-2010, 03:19 PM
Chance Castro is our everyday SS before July 31st: 0%

Well that's just ridiculous. Yes, it might be unlikely if you don't believe this report, but to say 0% is pretty crazy. If Theriot tears his ACL today, Castro's up by tomorrow.

chicagofan71
04-28-2010, 03:19 PM
Chance Castro is our everyday SS before July 31st: 0%

100%

In what world? There seems to be a good chance Theriot is traded and it is almost a guarantee Castro would be up by June

Yagyu+
04-28-2010, 03:20 PM
Chance Castro is our everyday SS before July 31st: 0%

Sounds like something violent would have to happen to him for that to be the case.

CubbySwag313
04-28-2010, 03:20 PM
I REALLY hope this happens!! Castro killed during spring training and is killing now! Im sick and tired of watching Mr. Pathetic Fonty and Baker at second base. Putting Theriot at Second and Castro at short will help this team tremendously!

Yagyu+
04-28-2010, 03:22 PM
100%

In what world? There seems to be a good chance Theriot is traded and it is almost a guarantee Castro would be up by June


Well that's just ridiculous. Yes, it might be unlikely if you don't believe this report, but to say 0% is pretty crazy. If Theriot tears his ACL today, Castro's up by tomorrow.


Honestly, I wouldn't be so sure.

Good teamwork, guys.

gocubs2118
04-28-2010, 03:22 PM
Chance Castro is our everyday SS before July 31st: 0%

Well now you're just taking crazy pills.

Matchstckman
04-28-2010, 03:24 PM
I REALLY hope this happens!! Castro killed during spring training and is killing now! Im sick and tired of watching Mr. Pathetic Fonty and Baker at second base. Putting Theriot at Second and Castro at short will help this team tremendously!

Hollandsworth, is that you?

DamnGoat
04-28-2010, 03:24 PM
I REALLY hope this happens!! Castro killed during spring training and is killing now! Im sick and tired of watching Mr. Pathetic Fonty and Baker at second base. Putting Theriot at Second and Castro at short will help this team tremendously!
Theriot by himself won't outhit the Fonty/Baker platoon at 2B. If he took Baker's spot then it'd be an upgrade though. I don't get why anyone is down on Fontenot anyway.

Anyway, I'm sure we'll see Castro at some point this season but it's a little too early right now unless, like others have said, we may be able to flip Theriot + prospects for relief help.

CubbieSteve
04-28-2010, 03:25 PM
I REALLY hope this happens!! Castro killed during spring training and is killing now! Im sick and tired of watching Mr. Pathetic Fonty and Baker at second base. Putting Theriot at Second and Castro at short will help this team tremendously!

Too much swag

windycityD
04-28-2010, 03:28 PM
[QUOTE=giventofly;13136423]Honestly, I wouldn't be so sure.[/QUOT

It's a pipe dream to assume that dealing Theriot will garner a solid, mlb-ready return in terms of a righty for the pen. He does not hit for power, his OBP is not overly stellar, and his ideal position- which he hasn't played since the minors- is 2b. What team wants a learn on-the-job 2b and is willing to give up a good arm? Add Lou & the lead off platoon to this equation and I say, all chatter.

Of course, some people want to assume that Zambrano can't or wont be traded. I'd wager he's more likely to be dealt and would agree to be dealt before Theriot would. If you traded Z, you'd get an mlb-ready arm and at least one very good spec back, minimum. And you'd cut payroll to add more at the deadline, both an arm and a bat.

weneedpitching
04-28-2010, 03:30 PM
I REALLY hope this happens!! Castro killed during spring training and is killing now! Im sick and tired of watching Mr. Pathetic Fonty and Baker at second base. Putting Theriot at Second and Castro at short will help this team tremendously!

Yep, Fonty's .750 OPS vs. RHP and Baker's 1.073 OPS vs. LHP sure makes for a ****** plattoon...:facepalm:

EDIT: Fonty's apparently hitting .750 vs. LHP and .650 vs. RHP, which is kinda wierd, but still...getting decent production from 2B

CubbySwag313
04-28-2010, 03:34 PM
Theriot by himself won't outhit the Fonty/Baker platoon at 2B. If he took Baker's spot then it'd be an upgrade though. I don't get why anyone is down on Fontenot anyway.

Anyway, I'm sure we'll see Castro at some point this season but it's a little too early right now unless, like others have said, we may be able to flip Theriot + prospects for relief help.


Agreed! Theriot and Fonty would be a much better platoon.....I just really hope Castro is called up in the very near future. This kid will kill for sure! Its going to be interesting to see how it all folds out.

duce5858
04-28-2010, 03:39 PM
Yes the cubs should wait until June for this move.

But what are you guys talkin about? If this happened, theriot would move to 2nd, and Tracy would be released. Baker would be backup of ramirez at 3rd.

I still have no idea why Tracy is on the team other than being left handed... its obvious Lou doesnt think he can play

weneedpitching
04-28-2010, 03:42 PM
Agreed! Theriot and Fonty would be a much better platoon.....I just really hope Castro is called up in the very near future. This kid will kill for sure! Its going to be interesting to see how it all folds out.

Guys...no...You might be able to make the case that Theriot is the better bet as an everyday starter because his lefty righty splits aren't as glaring (792 / 688 last 3 years). But Baker absolutely mashes LHP (841 OPS last 3 yr). Baker is a far superior right handed portion of a platoon...And Theriot sucks

chicagofan71
04-28-2010, 03:46 PM
It's a pipe dream to assume that dealing Theriot will garner a solid, mlb-ready return in terms of a righty for the pen. He does not hit for power, his OBP is not overly stellar, and his ideal position- which he hasn't played since the minors- is 2b. What team wants a learn on-the-job 2b and is willing to give up a good arm? Add Lou & the lead off platoon to this equation and I say, all chatter.

Of course, some people want to assume that Zambrano can't or wont be traded. I'd wager he's more likely to be dealt and would agree to be dealt before Theriot would. If you traded Z, you'd get an mlb-ready arm and at least one very good spec back, minimum. And you'd cut payroll to add more at the deadline, both an arm and a bat.

Wrong. Really, really wrong.

CubbySwag313
04-28-2010, 03:49 PM
Yep, Fonty's .750 OPS vs. RHP and Baker's 1.073 OPS vs. LHP sure makes for a ****** plattoon...:facepalm:

EDIT: Fonty's apparently hitting .750 vs. LHP and .650 vs. RHP, which is kinda wierd, but still...getting decent production from 2B



Ill take Theriots OPS and average any day over Baker and Fontys....Fontys numbers will go down as the season progresses like always....and baker is one of them decent players that teams would like to have. If it was me, I would def call up Castro to start at short and just have Theriot/Fonty as a platoon at second. Or use them as trade bait for some relief help.

It seems very little people are excited about Castro being called up. It doesnt matter if they wait till june or july, I think once he gets called up he is going to kill and make the Chicago Cubs a much better team than what they are now. I stated before spring training started that both Colvin and Castro should make the club with ease. So far so good with Colvin, all we need now is Castro to come up! Its gonna be fun watching them two play. Another kid that needs to come is Cashner. Im pretty sure he will called up sometime soon to. Im guessing june or July. Only time will tell!

windycityD
04-28-2010, 03:58 PM
[QUOTE=windycityD;13136576]

Wrong. Really, really wrong.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/t/theriry01.shtml
Theriot has started a whopping 53 games at 2b since his call up in '05 and has not played the position since 2007. Yeah, he's a natural there.

Games played at this level versus playing the actual position day in and day out is the point. You turn the double play completely diff.

Jilly Bohnson
04-28-2010, 04:12 PM
I had the Tigers in mind as well, but I think Gorzelanny might get the boot here. After all, Zambrano was promised his rotation spot back soon enough, and if we're getting relief help, he can move right back and we'd still have a shortstop.

I want to keep Gorzelanny. I'd like to have a viable lefty for the rotation after Lilly leaves. Hell, maybe we're going to strike while the iron is hot and move Silva's contract? That'd be pretty savvy on Hendry if he can play off his hot start and dump most of the rest of his contract.

Captain Obvious
04-28-2010, 04:27 PM
[QUOTE=chicagofan71;13136846]

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/t/theriry01.shtml
Theriot has started a whopping 53 games at 2b since his call up in '05 and has not played the position since 2007. Yeah, he's a natural there.

Games played at this level versus playing the actual position day in and day out is the point. You turn the double play completely diff.

You do know that he has played more games at 2B than SS in his minor league career, right?

chicagofan71
04-28-2010, 04:30 PM
[QUOTE=chicagofan71;13136846]

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/t/theriry01.shtml
Theriot has started a whopping 53 games at 2b since his call up in '05 and has not played the position since 2007. Yeah, he's a natural there.

Games played at this level versus playing the actual position day in and day out is the point. You turn the double play completely diff.

Still, your statement that he hasn't played there since the minors was wrong, which was my point.

And given his lengthy experience at 2B, I'd say yeah, he kinda knows what he's doing there. We're not putting Jake Fox at 3rd here

gocubs2118
04-28-2010, 04:57 PM
We'll see Castro up here soon. I just have a feeling.

windycityD
04-28-2010, 04:59 PM
[QUOTE=windycityD;13137067]

Still, your statement that he hasn't played there since the minors was wrong, which was my point.

And given his lengthy experience at 2B, I'd say yeah, he kinda knows what he's doing there. We're not putting Jake Fox at 3rd here

That he hasn't played there consistently since the minors is a fact. That he'd be re-learning that position, which is a whole other skill set, is a fact.

Here's the other part of this equation that makes this all moot- if you moved him over to 2b, where he would be a full-time player, explain how we could move either Baker (your primary back up at 3b and very good vs lefties) or Fontenot (one of your better left handed hitters & better defensive players). Sure, Fontenot played well at 3b last year, so in theory, that could make Baker expendable. But what if Castro does not play/ hit well? You've then shorted yourself on the infield by dealing Baker, b/c as we all know, over his career, Fontenot does not lefties hit. And before you mention Tracy, look at his stats. The guy has been a total no show so far.

The problem isn't the 8th inning, SS, or day games. It's a lack of hitting with men on base (gee, today's game maybe?), leaving men on base, and two key bats- Lee and Ramirez- both struggling in the middle of the order now. This offense has issues and Castro has proven nothing.

BDawk4Prez
04-28-2010, 05:02 PM
Theriot for Pujols straight up?

Captain Obvious
04-28-2010, 05:02 PM
[QUOTE=chicagofan71;13137625]

That he hasn't played there consistently since the minors is a fact. That he'd be re-learning that position, which is a whole other skill set, is a fact.

Here's the other part of this equation that makes this all moot- if you moved him over to 2b, where he would be a full-time player, explain how we could move either Baker (your primary back up at 3b and very good vs lefties) or Fontenot (one of your better left handed hitters & better defensive players). Sure, Fontenot played well at 3b last year, so in theory, that could make Baker expendable. But what if Castro does not play/ hit well? You've then shorted yourself on the infield by dealing Baker, b/c as we all know, over his career, Fontenot does not lefties hit. And before you mention Tracy, look at his stats. The guy has been a total no show so far.

The problem isn't the 8th inning, SS, or day games. It's a lack of hitting with men on base (gee, today's game maybe?), leaving men on base, and two key bats- Lee and Ramirez- both struggling in the middle of the order now. This offense has issues and Castro has proven nothing.

A) How do you know he'd have to relearn the position? Do you forget that he knows he is going to have to move to 2B?

B) Release Chad Tracy

B)No, the problem is Lou.

HotRuta
04-28-2010, 05:03 PM
So, how much experience does Castro have at 3B?

EJS2590
04-28-2010, 05:05 PM
So, how much experience does Castro have at 3B?

i can't tell if that's a joke or not

chicagofan71
04-28-2010, 05:05 PM
[QUOTE=chicagofan71;13137625]

That he hasn't played there consistently since the minors is a fact. That he'd be re-learning that position, which is a whole other skill set, is a fact.

Here's the other part of this equation that makes this all moot- if you moved him over to 2b, where he would be a full-time player, explain how we could move either Baker (your primary back up at 3b and very good vs lefties) or Fontenot (one of your better left handed hitters & better defensive players). Sure, Fontenot played well at 3b last year, so in theory, that could make Baker expendable. But what if Castro does not play/ hit well? You've then shorted yourself on the infield by dealing Baker, b/c as we all know, over his career, Fontenot does not lefties hit. And before you mention Tracy, look at his stats. The guy has been a total no show so far.

The problem isn't the 8th inning, SS, or day games. It's a lack of hitting with men on base (gee, today's game maybe?), leaving men on base, and two key bats- Lee and Ramirez- both struggling in the middle of the order now. This offense has issues and Castro has proven nothing.

Who said Theriot would even be on this team by next week? Who said we have to get rid of baker? Who said Theriot/Fontenot can't platoon? We can easily send a pitcher down if Theriot doesn't get dealt. We can Manage with 11 pitchers for a little bit if need be

The fact that you don't think Castro is this team's starting SS by July is a joke

Matchstckman
04-28-2010, 05:10 PM
There is some terrible quoting going on in this thread.

BUD Bleachers
04-28-2010, 05:25 PM
This is interesting scoop.

I have no idea what this means.

It seems a bit odd to have both Baker and Fontenot on the bench in allowing Theriot to play 2B full-time.

Here's the interesting part about the whole thing for me: It seems that the Cubs are panicking more than the fans are at this point in time.

The team is again under .500, and while we're frustrated, not calling for a drastic overhaul.

HotRuta
04-28-2010, 05:31 PM
i can't tell if that's a joke or not
No joke. I maintain that Ramirez either still has significant medical problems that are preventing him from swinging properly, or else got into bad habits by compensating for coming back too soon last year (I know he put up good numbers after coming back --- but it also seemed clear he was in pain). If he doesn't get help/rest soon, he might get shut down for the rest of the season. That's why I think the Cubs may be needing help at 3B --- and Tracy is only a temporary answer.

zambo4president
04-28-2010, 05:56 PM
Theriot is ****in **** up, watch Hendry trade him for ******** like Cristian Guzman or Rickie Weeks. Hendry has a press conference with a ****ing boston creme in his mouth choking out about how this trade gives us a real quality lead off hitter and speed.

Milnertime
04-28-2010, 05:57 PM
There is some terrible quoting going on in this thread.
Seriously.

I was just thinking "when will someone figure out how to fix this terrible series of quotes?"

It's not hard....they're probably missing one "]."

Milnertime
04-28-2010, 05:58 PM
Who said Theriot would even be on this team by next week? Who said we have to get rid of baker? Who said Theriot/Fontenot can't platoon? We can easily send a pitcher down if Theriot doesn't get dealt. We can Manage with 11 pitchers for a little bit if need be

The fact that you don't think Castro is this team's starting SS by July is a joke

There.

Fixed the quote problem so it doesn't look like you're calling yourself an idiot the whole time.

thornga2
04-28-2010, 06:19 PM
Would Hendry consider including Colvin in a trade? He is overachieving right now, as are Theriot and Gorzellany. I could see Hendry trying to package all three of them for that impact arm that he is looking for. I don't want to trade Colvin, but I could see it.

SwedesForMurton
04-28-2010, 07:13 PM
i really dont think gorzo is overachieving. i think he showed what he could do a couple of years ago with the pirates.

Grifter
04-28-2010, 07:20 PM
B)No, the problem is Lou.
Really! I mean why the hell doesn't he tell Lee and Ramirez to start hitting? Why doesn't he get out there with a bat, so he can knock those runners in scoring position home? Even more, why doesn't he just get out there and tell the bullpen to stop $#!ting the bed?

Captain Obvious
04-28-2010, 07:24 PM
Really! I mean why the hell doesn't he tell Lee and Ramirez to start hitting? Why doesn't he get out there with a bat, so he can knock those runners in scoring position home? Even more, why doesn't he just get out there and tell the bullpen to stop $#!ting the bed?

Because he is busy PH Koyie Hill for our best player, putting Grabow in when games matter, and playing Chad Tracy over Alfonso Soriano and Geovany Soto. I mean, I am sure he would if he had the time, but he is pretty busy with what's on his plate right now.

redwhitenblue
04-28-2010, 07:28 PM
I'm starting to really get frustrated with Ramirez.

And Ruday

StrandedCub
04-28-2010, 07:32 PM
Really! I mean why the hell doesn't he tell Lee and Ramirez to start hitting? Why doesn't he get out there with a bat, so he can knock those runners in scoring position home? Even more, why doesn't he just get out there and tell the bullpen to stop $#!ting the bed?

I'm not saying Lou is the whole problem because he obviously isn't, but he doesn't always put the team in the best position. The fact that Soto didn't PH in the 8th for Koyie Hill or the 9th spot is cannot be defended. It was stupid on Lou's part. Soto has easily been the best hitter on the team so far and is seeing the ball so well. It was the wrong decision. You may be able to argue the Tracy PH but I still believe that those 2 pinch hitters should have been Soto and Soriano. There is little to no reason to believe that Nady and Tracy had a better chance of getting that run in than Soto and Soriano.

Obviously Lou can't do everything for this team. But his job is to put the players in the best position to succeed and many times already in this season he has failed to do so.

windycityD
04-28-2010, 07:35 PM
[QUOTE=windycityD;13138171]

Who said Theriot would even be on this team by next week? Who said we have to get rid of baker? Who said Theriot/Fontenot can't platoon? We can easily send a pitcher down if Theriot doesn't get dealt. We can Manage with 11 pitchers for a little bit if need be

The fact that you don't think Castro is this team's starting SS by July is a joke

The fact that you think he is, as well as reporters that are SPECULATING about this "pending" move, is the joke. Seriously, is Lou still the manager? I want you to tell me how the hell this move would do anything for the middle of our order, where our biggest issue is now offensively? Castro sure as **** would not be hitting above #7 in the line up and Theriot would most certainly be the primary lead off guy w/ Koske #2. Look who holds the pencil and line up card. All this "adding a spark" stuff does not translate with Lou either. The kid's had very good success for a year+ running, in the minors, and is 20/21. You bring him up and play him everyday when you're 100% willing to say to him, this job is yours, well into the future, warts and all. We aren't there yet, manager, GM, or personnel-need wise.

Every year this stuff happens. Last year, a month of factual/ credible reports about Fox coming up. Why was Fox eventually brought up? Because this team was getting nothing from its bench in terms of a power/ slugging bat from the right side and A Ram was injured.

cubsneedmiracle
04-28-2010, 07:40 PM
It'll be early June prolly..

So the Cubs can use him with Super Two status when it comes to contracts.

giventofly
04-28-2010, 08:23 PM
Theriot is ****in **** up, watch Hendry trade him for ******** like Cristian Guzman or Rickie Weeks. Hendry has a press conference with a ****ing boston creme in his mouth choking out about how this trade gives us a real quality lead off hitter and speed.
If Hendry traded Theriot for Rickie Weeks, I would go crazy with happiness.

redwhitenblue
04-28-2010, 08:41 PM
If Hendry traded Theriot for Rickie Weeks, I would go crazy with happiness.
I would honestly be willing to re-sign Hendry for more time if he made that trade.

cowboydoc45
04-28-2010, 08:50 PM
I would honestly be willing to re-sign Hendry for more time if he made that trade.

This!! Please let Hendry do this!!

bulldog312
04-28-2010, 09:41 PM
As high as I am on Castro, this seems like a desperation move and I don't understand the reason for it. This team is not under .500 because of the play of the middle infield. I just don't see the need to add a SS right now. And while most people here think Castro will be a great player, the odds of him dominating from the beginning aren't exactly stellar. I don't care how highly he is rated he has 0 major league experience.

Diehdcubsfan2
04-28-2010, 09:45 PM
As high as I am on Castro, this seems like a desperation move and I don't understand the reason for it. This team is not under .500 because of the play of the middle infield. I just don't see the need to add a SS right now. And while most people here think Castro will be a great player, the odds of him dominating from the beginning aren't exactly stellar. I don't care how highly he is rated he has 0 major league experience.

I do agree with the play of the MI, but I think this is a move to get a bullpen arm. Theriot has value right now and JH wants to utilize that.

giventofly
04-28-2010, 09:46 PM
I do agree with the play of the MI, but I think this is a move to get a bullpen arm. Theriot has value right now and JH wants to utilize that.
:nod:

gocubs2118
04-28-2010, 09:52 PM
Not The Riot, where would we get all our scrappiness from??? :cry:

Tehjosha
04-28-2010, 09:53 PM
I'm calling it now.

Theriot/Gorzelanny/Vitters for Bell/Gregorson.

And I don't think that I will be happy about it.

EJS2590
04-29-2010, 01:30 AM
I'm calling it now.

Theriot/Gorzelanny/Vitters for Bell/Gregorson.

And I don't think that I will be happy about it.


please no. :facepalm:

take vitters out and we got a deal. :clap:

Solid Snake
04-29-2010, 03:23 AM
Levine rearranged spells "senile", so yeah. Almost.

abe_froman
04-29-2010, 04:04 AM
As high as I am on Castro, this seems like a desperation move and I don't understand the reason for it. This team is not under .500 because of the play of the middle infield. I just don't see the need to add a SS right now. And while most people here think Castro will be a great player, the odds of him dominating from the beginning aren't exactly stellar. I don't care how highly he is rated he has 0 major league experience.

but how do you get major league experience without actually playing?

yeah he's not going to dominate and the timing of this was out of panic.but i cant see why everyone is acting this shocked by it.i mean you'd have to only started paying attention to the cubs this week to not know that castro was going to see major league time this year

but i'm going to give the benefit of the doubt and say this is the foreshadowing toward a move

giventofly
04-29-2010, 04:31 AM
I'm calling it now.

Theriot/Gorzelanny/Vitters for Bell/Gregorson.

And I don't think that I will be happy about it.
That's not going to happen.

JayBandit
04-29-2010, 07:54 AM
I'm not saying this is what I'd do, but can't they still send Fontenot down to the minors? I thought I read in the past that they still have an option on him or something.

That would allow them to bring Castro up and not have to release anyone. If Castro ends up being a bust, they would bring the other half of the cajun connection back up.

Personally, I'd like to see Castro move up to AAA if they're so hot on him for a bit. Also, I believe they won't make any move up to the majors until at least mid-May. I've been trying to find the date, but if he doesn't start until after a certain time, he's not arbitration eligible for another year or something.

The whole situation is messed up though. The middle infield is actually pulling their weight just fine at this point. I'm sure we'll have some falling back to earth like with every year later on, but I'd be more concerned with the fact that Lee/Ramirez are totally craptastic so far this year, and that is why we're not scoring runs.

I think that is part of the reason the forums aren't panicking as much as usual since everyone but those two are actually doing pretty well. Even the relief pitching hasn't completely destroyed our chances. If we had more than a 1 run lead every day, we wouldn't need the pen to be perfect.

Just my two cents.

rccubsfan
04-29-2010, 08:50 AM
fontenot does not need to go to AAA. If anyone its baker.

cubsneedmiracle
04-29-2010, 10:42 AM
Id expect Baker to just be traded for a nothing spec.. or just flat out released when Castro comes up.

Diehdcubsfan2
04-29-2010, 10:44 AM
Id expect Baker to just be traded for a nothing spec.. or just flat out released when Castro comes up.

See I can't see that, I still think the Cubs would want to trade Theriot.

windycityD
04-29-2010, 01:13 PM
I'm calling it now.

Theriot/Gorzelanny/Vitters for Bell/Gregorson.

And I don't think that I will be happy about it.

Don't worry, you'll have nothing to be unhappy about. This deal wont happen. We had our chance to sell high on Vitters before with them and Gorzo quite frankly is cheap insurance for the rotation now, as well as next season if Lilly walks. SD is in no position to deal now, it's early. If they do come summer, Bell can net a much better return imo with several teams vying for him.

Dfan25
04-29-2010, 01:46 PM
fontenot does not need to go to AAA. If anyone its baker.


Baker is out of options i read. For him to go to AAA HE would need to clear waivers i read and i don't believe that would happen. If Castro comes up Theriot probably moves top 2B with Fontenot taking over as the main LH bat off the bench and Tracy would be let go.

cubsneedmiracle
04-29-2010, 04:19 PM
See I can't see that, I still think the Cubs would want to trade Theriot.

Unless we are trying to get some bullpen help back..

Still just see Baker going.

windycityD
04-29-2010, 04:45 PM
As high as I am on Castro, this seems like a desperation move and I don't understand the reason for it. This team is not under .500 because of the play of the middle infield. I just don't see the need to add a SS right now. And while most people here think Castro will be a great player, the odds of him dominating from the beginning aren't exactly stellar. I don't care how highly he is rated he has 0 major league experience.

Really, this is the easiest organizational move to make, but it requires two essential conditions:
1) By late July, we're well out in the division and several teams back in the WC
2) The organization (and by that I mean Ricketts taking a firm, active stand here) decides it's going to shed payroll, deal off vets, get specs back, play our up and coming talent, and re-tool for 2011. Whether Lou is made lame duck like Dusty was in 2006 or decides to walk of his own accord, that's the mandate.

Under those conditions, I would rather see Parker, Gaub, Castro, Stevens, and Cashner promoted and given real mlb experience than some "we're still in it," Hendry-fueled pipe dream ala 2005 and 2009. By June/ July, this team will have shown all its spots.

JayBandit
04-29-2010, 07:15 PM
fontenot does not need to go to AAA. If anyone its baker.

I didn't say he needed to, I'm saying that is an option for the team. It is a way for them to keep all of their players without anyone riding waivers and/or cutting someone.

I think he's been doing great, but that doesn't mean he'll be on the roster if Castro comes up either...

bulldog312
04-29-2010, 07:35 PM
but how do you get major league experience without actually playing?

yeah he's not going to dominate and the timing of this was out of panic.but i cant see why everyone is acting this shocked by it.i mean you'd have to only started paying attention to the cubs this week to not know that castro was going to see major league time this year

but i'm going to give the benefit of the doubt and say this is the foreshadowing toward a move

Yes, you have to give Castro MLB experience sometime, but if you bring him in and start him over some of the better performing players on the team right now (not saying much, I know) the team is going to get worse in the short term.

If the Cubs are deciding they don't care about the short term and are preparing for the future then fine, I can respect that decision. If they are going to trade a MI for relieve pitching because they believe Castro is ready then fine, I'm ok with that decision as well. But if they are going to call him up and bench Theriot/Fontenot right now then I do have a problem with that.

BCB mwat15
04-29-2010, 08:05 PM
I don't understand, Theriot is OPSing over .750 so far this season. Is Lou unhappy with the production from 2B so far this season, or has Castro proven to Hendry he's ready? Castro has torn up AA so far but wouldn't it be more beneficial for him to get some at bats at AAA fist?

Chicago657
04-30-2010, 12:12 PM
So is the general consensus that bringing up Castro is fine if we trade one of Theriot/Baker/Fontenot for bullpen help? But if we are just bringing him up to play, its ****tarded.

Yagyu+
04-30-2010, 12:14 PM
So is the general consensus that bringing up Castro is fine if we trade one of Theriot/Baker/Fontenot for bullpen help? But if we are just bringing him up to play, its ****tarded.

They might hold onto all the chips and let go of Tracy?

EDIT: Speaking of Chips, Erik Estrada was on my flight last Friday.

MJ-BULLS
04-30-2010, 01:03 PM
Wow this is rather early.

If they do bring him up, move theriot to second and Castro to SS.

The only thing i worry about is, is he ready to play in the MLB.

JimHendrysTummy
04-30-2010, 01:05 PM
I really think he should see some AAA time first. Theriot is producing at SS, the Fonty/Baker platoon is producing... why try to fix one of the few areas of the team that isn't broken?

I think Hendry needs to refill his prescriptions, and soon.

MJ-BULLS
04-30-2010, 01:08 PM
I can agree with that, i would like to see him get some AAA time too.

I didn't read the whole thread, but how has his numbers been in AA? i have heard that he has been tearing it up.

Captain Obvious
04-30-2010, 01:10 PM
I really think he should see some AAA time first. Theriot is producing at SS, the Fonty/Baker platoon is producing... why try to fix one of the few areas of the team that isn't broken?

I think Hendry needs to refill his prescriptions, and soon.

Because the bullpen needs help. And Theriot won't be this good all year. And by this good I mean barely over average. Also, his K rate has been increasing the past few years and his BB rate decreasing. He is also swinging at more pitches and more pitches out of the zone. Which is not exactly what we want from our lead off guy, now is it? He could hit 8th, but Geovany Soto has already got that spot locked down.

JimHendrysTummy
04-30-2010, 01:16 PM
Well, it's probably too early to get value out of Theriot in a trade. Padres don't know if they're contenders yet, so we can't be certain that Bell is available...
A player tearing the cover off the ball in AA doesn't necessarily translate to ML success, either, (Pie, Fuld, on and on.) Furthermore, do you really risk dismantling your middle infield when Cruz, Calero are available for cheap? Hell, it's still too early to pull the plug on Caridad, too.

cubbybear2290
04-30-2010, 01:36 PM
http://www.suntimes.com/sports/2216098,cubs-hendry-starlin-castro-042910.article

IDK how reliable it is because here is an article that was published yesterday. Says it will be sooner than later but he still has dues to pay.

cowboydoc45
04-30-2010, 01:36 PM
Well, it's probably too early to get value out of Theriot in a trade. Padres don't know if they're contenders yet, so we can't be certain that Bell is available...
A player tearing the cover off the ball in AA doesn't necessarily translate to ML success, either, (Pie, Fuld, on and on.) Furthermore, do you really risk dismantling your middle infield when Cruz, Calero are available for cheap? Hell, it's still too early to pull the plug on Caridad, too.

Not if he is a secondary chip as opposed to a primary. In another thread, they are talking about trading Z (which unless you are conceding the year, is a bad move). If you package Z and Theriot with possibly a mid level spec, you would probably get a pretty decent return.

JimHendrysTummy
04-30-2010, 02:22 PM
Not if he is a secondary chip as opposed to a primary. In another thread, they are talking about trading Z (which unless you are conceding the year, is a bad move). If you package Z and Theriot with possibly a mid level spec, you would probably get a pretty decent return.

But if you're conceding the season, you don't need to put together a big package for relief pitcher, you're just looking for specs anyways.

windycityD
04-30-2010, 03:53 PM
As long as Hendry is GM, he wont concede this season. That's a problem come July if this team is still not hitting with men on/ scoring and the starting pitching levels off, as we all know it will to some degree. At some point, reality and job security may come into view this season and it's up to Ricketts to choose the former and basically jettison Jim, under that scenario, for our long-term interests.

jodydavis
05-03-2010, 12:13 AM
Put Castro in AAA and see how he does. It would be stupid to do anything other than add to the bullpen at this point. I think the position players are set and I'm very happy with our bench, probably the best bench I can remember for the cubs. Lou needs to be commended on the job he is doing thus far juggling the outfielders.

I"m not opposed to trading Baker/Fontenot/Theriot for a reliever but you better make sure its the right trade. I'd rather the cubs trade some of their young pitching for a reliever (provided its a good one). Realistically, I think its best to play this thing out and make a move in June for the veteran bullpen help from a team that throws in the white flag early.

CubbieSteve
05-03-2010, 01:48 AM
The more we keep hitting, the less and less likely this seems.

He'll be up here at some point, that's a given. But I hope it's more like September and not June. Starlin is awesome, but let him get some exp in AAA first.

redwhitenblue
05-03-2010, 01:49 AM
The more we keep hitting, the less and less likely this seems.

He'll be up here at some point, that's a given. But I hope it's more like September and not June. Starlin is awesome, but let him get some exp in AAA first.
I think it'll likely be in September or should an injury occur to the MI.

dabears2010
05-03-2010, 01:54 AM
due to what...a trade of Theriot?

Why would Theriot have to be traded to call up Castro? That's just rediculous thinking there. He will be at SS cause he has a better arm, more range, and that's his one and only position. Theriot then moves to 2B, letting Fontenot strengthen the bench for the Cubs and also help give everyone (except Lee) days off. They should get rid of Baker in my opinion and keep Castro up. An infield of Ramirez, Castro, Theriot, Lee, Soto sounds much better than Ramirez, Theriot, Fontenot/Baker, Lee, Soto. Castro is the next Hanley Ramirez in my opinion.

Milnertime
05-03-2010, 02:46 AM
Why would Theriot have to be traded to call up Castro? That's just rediculous thinking there. He will be at SS cause he has a better arm, more range, and that's his one and only position. Theriot then moves to 2B, letting Fontenot strengthen the bench for the Cubs and also help give everyone (except Lee) days off. They should get rid of Baker in my opinion and keep Castro up. An infield of Ramirez, Castro, Theriot, Lee, Soto sounds much better than Ramirez, Theriot, Fontenot/Baker, Lee, Soto. Castro is the next Hanley Ramirez in my opinion.
Castro has played 2B and 3B in his career. SS isn't his "one and only" position at all, you just don't know as much as you think you do.

Moving Theriot to 2B makes sense in only one situation that I can think of, and that's if Lou bats the pitcher 8th and puts Theriot 9th. Otherwise, I'd rather have Fontenot's ability to hit for power over Theriot's ability to merely hit singles at a good rate.

Doogolas
05-03-2010, 03:13 AM
Castro has played 2B and 3B in his career. SS isn't his "one and only" position at all, you just don't know as much as you think you do.

Moving Theriot to 2B makes sense in only one situation that I can think of, and that's if Lou bats the pitcher 8th and puts Theriot 9th. Otherwise, I'd rather have Fontenot's ability to hit for power over Theriot's ability to merely hit singles at a good rate.

Cept until Fonty shows he can still hit for power, they're pretty much the same player.

Milnertime
05-03-2010, 03:20 AM
Cept until Fonty shows he can still hit for power, they're pretty much the same player.
See: 2008.

Doogolas
05-03-2010, 04:16 AM
See: 2008.

See: That was two years ago. He has been hitting in a COMPLETELY different way this year. Most of his hits are going the other way. And as long as he continues to be a slap hitter the way he has, he has no power.

redwhitenblue
05-03-2010, 04:18 AM
Even going the other way, it shouldn't drop as low as it is currently. He's still a good doubles hitter.

Doogolas
05-03-2010, 04:24 AM
Even going the other way, it shouldn't drop as low as it is currently. He's still a good doubles hitter.

No, no he's not. He hasn't hit doubles this year. He has like, 3 XBH. He hasn't hit the ball with any authority this year. He's just kinda flicking it. Seriously, I LOVE Fontenot. Everybody knows that. But he's doing his best Theriot impression instead of trying to hit the ball with authority.

redwhitenblue
05-03-2010, 04:25 AM
No, no he's not. He hasn't hit doubles this year. He has like, 3 XBH. He hasn't hit the ball with any authority this year. He's just kinda flicking it. Seriously, I LOVE Fontenot. Everybody knows that. But he's doing his best Theriot impression instead of trying to hit the ball with authority.
That's in one month. I expect that to stay the same way in the manner I expect Ramirez to continue slumping.

It's a worse case scenario.

Doogolas
05-03-2010, 04:27 AM
That's in one month. I expect that to stay the same way in the manner I expect Ramirez to continue slumping.

It's a worse case scenario.

Difference is Ramirez is swinging the same way he always does, super ****ing hard. Fontenot is swinging like a slap hitter. There is a very big difference. If he starts actually putting a charge into some balls, then yeah, I'll agree. But he's playing like Theriot instead of like himself.

redwhitenblue
05-03-2010, 04:35 AM
Difference is Ramirez is swinging the same way he always does, super ****ing hard. Fontenot is swinging like a slap hitter. There is a very big difference. If he starts actually putting a charge into some balls, then yeah, I'll agree. But he's playing like Theriot instead of like himself.
Ramirez is overswinging, Fontenot is underswinging.

Ramirez has taken hard cuts before, but not so ridiculously wild as he has this year.

I have no worries that Fontenot will start lacing some solid hits.

Doogolas
05-03-2010, 04:36 AM
Ramirez is overswinging, Fontenot is underswinging.

Ramirez has taken hard cuts before, but not so ridiculously wild as he has this year.

I have no worries that Fontenot will start lacing some solid hits.

OK. But I do. :shrug: When he starts actually doing it I won't be worried. And not the same thing as with Rammy. Because his stance has changed and so has his swing in general.

ST.maarten'stop
05-03-2010, 06:16 AM
I think it'll likely be in September or should an injury occur to the MI.

actually i think its the opposite.. if they keep hitting that makes the middle infielders more expendible.. the other guys would be able pick up the slack for castro, if he struggles a bit when he just comes up.

They probably would be more willing to move theriot rather then fontenot or baker.. because it would allow then to get a top notch reliever....

Milnertime
05-03-2010, 06:40 AM
OK. But I do. :shrug: When he starts actually doing it I won't be worried. And not the same thing as with Rammy. Because his stance has changed and so has his swing in general.
70ish plate appearances aren't enough to say anything about anyone ever at all in the history of baseball ever.

He's obviously making some changes to his swing. It's probably going to take some time for him to get comfortable with it to the point that he starts cutting loose.

Either way, I'd still rather have Fontenot because he has the POTENTIAL to hit for power while maintaining decent overall numbers. Theriot doesn't, really.

Str1fe5
05-03-2010, 09:20 AM
Why would Theriot have to be traded to call up Castro? That's just rediculous thinking there. He will be at SS cause he has a better arm, more range, and that's his one and only position. Theriot then moves to 2B, letting Fontenot strengthen the bench for the Cubs and also help give everyone (except Lee) days off. They should get rid of Baker in my opinion and keep Castro up. An infield of Ramirez, Castro, Theriot, Lee, Soto sounds much better than Ramirez, Theriot, Fontenot/Baker, Lee, Soto. Castro is the next Hanley Ramirez in my opinion.

:laugh:

cubs on dubs
05-03-2010, 10:37 AM
70ish plate appearances aren't enough to say anything about anyone ever at all in the history of baseball ever.

He's obviously making some changes to his swing. It's probably going to take some time for him to get comfortable with it to the point that he starts cutting loose.

Either way, I'd still rather have Fontenot because he has the POTENTIAL to hit for power while maintaining decent overall numbers. Theriot doesn't, really.

No you and RWB are compeltely wrong. Bob Brenly has even said that Fonty completely changed his approach at the plate this season. Rudy helped him change it and he is sacrificing all power and just trying to flick the bat at the ball more this year. Sorry but I trust Bob Brenly more than two posters.

davidfox11
05-03-2010, 11:10 AM
No you and RWB are compeltely wrong. Bob Brenly has even said that Fonty completely changed his approach at the plate this season. Rudy helped him change it and he is sacrificing all power and just trying to flick the bat at the ball more this year. Sorry but I trust Bob Brenly more than two posters.

first post and he is going after two big dogs on here...i love it...welcome to the site

kyleh1987
05-03-2010, 11:20 AM
Castro is not ready. How can anyone say he is major league ready when he hasnt gone to iowa yet? is he THAT MUCH cant miss like felix pie, or corey patterson? hes young, let the kid develop a little bit more. theriots hot as hell right now why would they even say something like that to **** theriots mentality up? starting ss 2011 would be a better idea.

Jilly Bohnson
05-03-2010, 11:31 AM
Castro is not ready. How can anyone say he is major league ready when he hasnt gone to iowa yet? is he THAT MUCH cant miss like felix pie, or corey patterson? hes young, let the kid develop a little bit more. theriots hot as hell right now why would they even say something like that to **** theriots mentality up? starting ss 2011 would be a better idea.

AA is usually the litmus test for a young guy. Most of the time once you've shown you're good enough to excel in AA you're pretty close to major league ready. AAA is for guys who either are too good for AA but have some thing they still need to work on before they're called up or are too good for AA but are being blocked by another player at the MLB level.

For example, Tyler Colvin completely skipped Iowa and he has/had many more holes in his game than Starlin.

windycityD
05-03-2010, 11:53 AM
AA is usually the litmus test for a young guy. Most of the time once you've shown you're good enough to excel in AA you're pretty close to major league ready. AAA is for guys who either are too good for AA but have some thing they still need to work on before they're called up or are too good for AA but are being blocked by another player at the MLB level.

For example, Tyler Colvin completely skipped Iowa and he has/had many more holes in his game than Starlin.

Add to the fact that the PCL is basically a hitter's league and it bodes well that Castro is hitting well at AA, facing good pitching. That said, right now, he is not a pressing personnel-line up need. He's a talking point.

redwhitenblue
05-03-2010, 12:25 PM
No you and RWB are compeltely wrong. Bob Brenly has even said that Fonty completely changed his approach at the plate this season. Rudy helped him change it and he is sacrificing all power and just trying to flick the bat at the ball more this year. Sorry but I trust Bob Brenly more than two posters.
Changing your approach is not the same as sacrificing all power.

He's not being a dead pull hitter anymore because pitchers had been attacking him away the last year+. Now he's able to go with the pitch away to left center. Pitchers will begin to go back inside against him and he will pull it.


Similar to when Lee changed his stance back 5-6 years ago, he opened up so that he could get around on balls inside and for a while, it looked like he lost ALL his opposite field power that he had thrived on. Once teams started going back outside again, he went back to that swing and became a total threat that is able to hit pitches on either side with power.


Fontenot's BA will dip, but he will do MUCH more than his current .045 IsOP. Hell, Ryan Theriot puts up double that, easily. He won't put up his .200 points differential from '08, but I think you can expect his .120-.140 differential.

cubs on dubs
05-03-2010, 01:13 PM
Changing your approach is not the same as sacrificing all power.

He's not being a dead pull hitter anymore because pitchers had been attacking him away the last year+. Now he's able to go with the pitch away to left center. Pitchers will begin to go back inside against him and he will pull it.


Similar to when Lee changed his stance back 5-6 years ago, he opened up so that he could get around on balls inside and for a while, it looked like he lost ALL his opposite field power that he had thrived on. Once teams started going back outside again, he went back to that swing and became a total threat that is able to hit pitches on either side with power.


Fontenot's BA will dip, but he will do MUCH more than his current .045 IsOP. Hell, Ryan Theriot puts up double that, easily. He won't put up his .200 points differential from '08, but I think you can expect his .120-.140 differential.

Lee also opened up so he could see the ball better but Brenly said he is sacrificing his power this year its not something I just came up with. So we'll just have to wait and see but im guessing he hits about 3-4 HR's this year. And im assuming Fontenot changed his approach to a more contact flick the ball type player because he hit .236/.301/.377 last year and he would like to RAISE his averages yeah he might not hit .300 but i dont think it will tape off too much.....My point is I think he has equal power as Theriot so i disagree with anyone saying keep fonty at second (when castro comes up) because he has more power.

buccman006
05-03-2010, 01:15 PM
how is Lou ruining the team? We needed a power righty for the 8th inning and Z has been inconsistant starting so we put him in that role. Also i think Theriot is perfect for second base. His bat fits perfectly at second and Castro is much better defensively at short than theriot. Defensively our middle infield is going to be MUCH better with castro at short and ryan at second.

Personally i think we should blow this team up. Get rid of Soriano's horrible contract for anything. Trade Lee, Lilly and Dempster for good prospects. Bring up Castro, Andrew Cashner, and Jay Jackson and let them get their kinks out this year. Then next year, go after Adrian Gonzalez to replace Lee at first and Carl Crawford to replace Soriano in left. We already have out MI with Castro and Theriot and Aramis at third. Outfield of Crawford, Byrd, Colvin, Fukudome and Nady. Rotation of Z, Cashner, Wells, Jackson and whoever with Marmol at closer. That is a team that could do damage next year and years to come.

cowboydoc45
05-03-2010, 01:18 PM
how is Lou ruining the team? We needed a power righty for the 8th inning and Z has been inconsistant starting so we put him in that role. Also i think Theriot is perfect for second base. His bat fits perfectly at second and Castro is much better defensively at short than theriot. Defensively our middle infield is going to be MUCH better with castro at short and ryan at second.

Personally i think we should blow this team up. Get rid of Soriano's horrible contract for anything. Trade Lee, Lilly and Dempster for good prospects. Bring up Castro, Andrew Cashner, and Jay Jackson and let them get their kinks out this year. Then next year, go after Adrian Gonzalez to replace Lee at first and Carl Crawford to replace Soriano in left. We already have out MI with Castro and Theriot and Aramis at third. Outfield of Crawford, Byrd, Colvin, Fukudome and Nady. Rotation of Z, Cashner, Wells, Jackson and whoever with Marmol at closer. That is a team that could do damage next year and years to come.

spoken like a true Sox fan...

rccubsfan
05-03-2010, 01:26 PM
spoken like a true Sox fan...

no actually i agree. if soriano has a great year, ship him off before the deadline

cowboydoc45
05-03-2010, 01:33 PM
no actually i agree. if soriano has a great year, ship him off before the deadline

shipping off Soriano isn't the part I was refering to. It was saying we should blow up the team. The season is 26 games in, we are 13-13. We could easily have been 16-7 if not for our bull pens shaky start (which, by the way, would put us 1.5 behind the Cards). If we are still looking like this around June (i.e. struggling to maintain .500, or even say 10 games out) then we should start shopping our contracts that are going to expire that we aren't going to resign, or guys that would net us some talent while getting rid of their contract. May is not the time to blow things up, give it another month before hitting the panic switch.

cowboydoc45
05-03-2010, 01:39 PM
Lee also opened up so he could see the ball better but Brenly said he is sacrificing his power this year its not something I just came up with. So we'll just have to wait and see but im guessing he hits about 3-4 HR's this year. And im assuming Fontenot changed his approach to a more contact flick the ball type player because he hit .236/.301/.377 last year and he would like to RAISE his averages yeah he might not hit .300 but i dont think it will tape off too much.....My point is I think he has equal power as Theriot so i disagree with anyone saying keep fonty at second (when castro comes up) because he has more power.

Changing your approach doesn't equate to losing power, just how you use it. Fontenot isn't there to be a HR hitter. He has the ability to hit for power, but that isn't what he is best at. Also, it takes a while to get comfortable with new approaches to anything, and with that comfort will probably come his ability to hit for power.

As for the bolded part, diagree all you want, but that doesn't make you less wrong. Look at their career numbers

Theriot SLG: .371
Fontenot SLG: .416

That is a considerable difference honestly. Theriot is a slap hitter who is good at getting on base and stretching singles into doubles (occassionally). Fontenot is one who will gap balls.

Milnertime
05-03-2010, 01:42 PM
Lee also opened up so he could see the ball better but Brenly said he is sacrificing his power this year its not something I just came up with. So we'll just have to wait and see but im guessing he hits about 3-4 HR's this year. And im assuming Fontenot changed his approach to a more contact flick the ball type player because he hit .236/.301/.377 last year and he would like to RAISE his averages yeah he might not hit .300 but i dont think it will tape off too much.....My point is I think he has equal power as Theriot so i disagree with anyone saying keep fonty at second (when castro comes up) because he has more power.
What are you babbling about?

"Because Brenly said" is hardly a good reason for anything. I'm one of BB's biggest supporters (I was one of few who preferred him over Lou when Baker was fired), but his only affiliation with this team is announcer. He isn't in the clubhouse working with these guys every day, so he doesn't really know what Fontenot's approach is.

Sure, it looks like he's not hitting the ball with authority anymore, but that could easily change in a week if he starts seeing pitches on the inner half of the plate and starts spanking them to right center field.

cubs on dubs
05-03-2010, 02:03 PM
What are you babbling about?

"Because Brenly said" is hardly a good reason for anything. I'm one of BB's biggest supporters (I was one of few who preferred him over Lou when Baker was fired), but his only affiliation with this team is announcer. He isn't in the clubhouse working with these guys every day, so he doesn't really know what Fontenot's approach is.

Sure, it looks like he's not hitting the ball with authority anymore, but that could easily change in a week if he starts seeing pitches on the inner half of the plate and starts spanking them to right center field.

haha wow.....ok Brenly's opnion is worth far more than anybody on here. And yeah he might not be in the clubhouse but he still talks to the coaches and the coaches told him that he HAS SACRIFICED HIS POWER THIS YEAR. That is part of the new approach. Why are you not grasping that. No his power is not coming along the way because he changed his stance and appraoch. As long as he has this approach of flicking at the ball he will not hit for power. So those career numbers you just gave me and completely useless...

P.S. I would be surpirsed if Brenly doesn't have any input to the team im sure he has some input. I could be wrong but if I had an ex-coach in my booth i would definitely ask for some input.

cubs on dubs
05-03-2010, 02:04 PM
I was also talkiing about your other post where you quoted me in that last post I wrote.

cowboydoc45
05-03-2010, 02:07 PM
haha wow.....ok Brenly's opnion is worth far more than anybody on here. And yeah he might not be in the clubhouse but he still talks to the coaches and the coaches told him that he HAS SACRIFICED HIS POWER THIS YEAR. That is part of the new approach. Why are you not grasping that. No his power is not coming along the way because he changed his stance and appraoch. As long as he has this approach of flicking at the ball he will not hit for power. So those career numbers you just gave me and completely useless...

P.S. I would be surpirsed if Brenly doesn't have any input to the team im sure he has some input. I could be wrong but if i had an ex-coach in my booth i would definitely ask for some input.

Brenly managed one team... something like 5 years. Yes he has some experience, but he isn't the end all be all. Honestly, he has some good ideas, but when you have guys in the dugout getting paid to make decisions like Pinella, Jaramillo, Rothschild, and Trammell... why would you ask a "color analyst" his opinion. Honestly, I support Brenly. I like him as a broadcast personality, and probably wouldn't mind him as a manager or coach, but honestly, he has no say in what happens with the team. GUARENTEED!! (see Steve Stone from 2004)

cubs on dubs
05-03-2010, 02:08 PM
To say that Brenly doesn't know what his approach is is absolutely absurd and you should know that. He is an ex coach he can see things you guys probably can't. A very educated fan would be able to see that his approach isnt for power.

1908_Cubs
05-03-2010, 02:08 PM
haha wow.....ok Brenly's opnion is worth far more than anybody on here. And yeah he might not be in the clubhouse but he still talks to the coaches and the coaches told him that he HAS SACRIFICED HIS POWER THIS YEAR. That is part of the new approach. Why are you not grasping that. No his power is not coming along the way because he changed his stance and appraoch. As long as he has this approach of flicking at the ball he will not hit for power. So those career numbers you just gave me and completely useless...

P.S. I would be surpirsed if Brenly doesn't have any input to the team im sure he has some input. I could be wrong but if I had an ex-coach in my booth i would definitely ask for some input.

And exactly how do you know the coaches told him that Fontenot is sacrificing his power? Wait for it...."because Bob said so", right?

Bob's opinion isn't worth any more than anyone else's. Welcome to the definition of an opinion.

a belief or judgment that rests on grounds insufficient to produce complete certainty.

Ah. So there's no certainty. Thus, one opinion would technically be worth the same amount as anyone's? Ah hah.

cowboydoc45
05-03-2010, 02:09 PM
To say that Brenly doesn't know what his approach is is absolutely absurd and you should know that. He is an ex coach he can see things you guys probably can't. A very educated fan would be able to see that his approach isnt for power.

Which is why he isn't in a power hitting spot. He usually bats 7th or 8th, not somewhere you want your power.

cubs on dubs
05-03-2010, 02:10 PM
Brenly managed one team... something like 5 years. Yes he has some experience, but he isn't the end all be all. Honestly, he has some good ideas, but when you have guys in the dugout getting paid to make decisions like Pinella, Jaramillo, Rothschild, and Trammell... why would you ask a "color analyst" his opinion. Honestly, I support Brenly. I like him as a broadcast personality, and probably wouldn't mind him as a manager or coach, but honestly, he has no say in what happens with the team. GUARENTEED!! (see Steve Stone from 2004)

Steve Stone is a hell of a lot different than Bob Brenly. And I said i could be wrong. You do realize we are talking about a subjet we are completely clueless on. You cant guarantee something your clueless about.

1908_Cubs
05-03-2010, 02:13 PM
Steve Stone is a hell of a lot different than Bob Brenly. And I said i could be wrong. You do realize we are talking about a subjet we are completely clueless on. You cant guarantee something your clueless about.

But you can look at past performance and make an educated guess. And the best educated guess is not that he is "sacrificing power" but more that he's just not hitting home runs right now because he's not getting a lot of pitches to drive and that the power will come. Because he's shown the ability to do that prior.

Why in gods name would he sacrifice his power if he has it? That's silly.

cubs on dubs
05-03-2010, 02:15 PM
But you can look at past performance and make an educated guess. And the best educated guess is not that he is "sacrificing power" but more that he's just not hitting home runs right now because he's not getting a lot of pitches to drive and that the power will come. Because he's shown the ability to do that prior.

Why in gods name would he sacrifice his power if he has it? That's silly.

He would sacrifice his power because he had terrible OBP and BA last year. And he doesnt have that much power anyway so it doesnt really matter if he gives it up. Ok now im done with you guys.

cowboydoc45
05-03-2010, 02:18 PM
1. Steve Stone is a hell of a lot different than Bob Brenly. And I said i could be wrong. 2. You do realize we are talking about a subjet we are completely clueless on. You cant guarantee something your clueless about.

1. Yes, one was a manager, the other wasn't. They still hold the exact same position. Neither one of them have input on what is done on the field. Just not their job.

2. I agree, but at the same time, I can be pretty sure that if Hendry or Pinella thought that highly of Brenly's opinion, he would be in the dugout as the bench coach, not Trammell.

3. How do you know I am clueless... (not that I'm not), but my logic is a little more sound here... I know I don't consolt non practicing/retired providers when I have a team of providers that are more than competent, available, and paid to be consultants.

cowboydoc45
05-03-2010, 02:20 PM
haha i thought the higher number of posts ment you new more....But i guess it just means you enjoy getting your voice out more than others and has nothing to do with knowledge...im done with you guys hopefully someone else who isnt a moron comes in and cleans up this mess because a guys with 5 posts has no chance in a forum even if hes right....

a good poster can see both sides of an argument, not just theirs. I am quick to admit when I am wrong (ask any of the posters), but in this one, I have to say you are wrong.

1908_Cubs
05-03-2010, 02:32 PM
I've come to the conclusion that internet forums are full of people talking like they graduated with a journalism degree from Northwestern who dont know as much as they think. And clearly dont watch the games just talk about them.
I don't have a journalism degree, I have a masters in history with a minor in geography.

But you're right, I have never seen a baseball game. I actually was at Wrigley just yesterday, but I sat looking at the press booth all game just so that I wouldn't see a single play. If I did watch the field I would no longer be some internet geek who just talked about baseball like I knew what i was talking about and writing as if I had some journalism degree. And would thus be awoken to the reality of things, such as the opinion of Bob Brenly means more than anyone else's in the world.

cubs on dubs
05-03-2010, 02:32 PM
Cubs fans are really just idiots for the most part. Over in the land of the Pirates, we treat people with respect. WAR, OBP, SLB that stuff is for babies. We like to watch the game, see the hits, tally the runs.

Come take a look, conversions always welcome.

I know what the stats are I dont know why your suggesting I dont...And if your also suggesting i dont watch the games it seems im the only one on here who heard Bob Brenly say that Rudy has changed Fonty's approach this year and he is asking him to sacrifice all power and just flick at it. So wrong on both accounts cap'n.

BDawk4Prez
05-03-2010, 02:34 PM
I don't have a journalism degree, I have a masters in history with a minor in geography.

But you're right, I have never seen a baseball game. I actually was at Wrigley just yesterday, but I sat looking at the press booth all game just so that I wouldn't see a single play. If I did watch the field I would no longer be some internet geek who just talked about baseball like I knew what i was talking about and writing as if I had some journalism degree. And would thus be awoken to the reality of things, such as the opinion of Bob Brenly means more than anyone else's in the world.

Noone likes a bragger.


I know what the stats are I dont know why your suggesting I dont...And if your also suggesting i dont watch the games it seems im the only one on here who heard Bob Brenly say that Rudy has changed Fonty's approach this year and he is asking him to sacrifice all power and just flick at it. So wrong on both accounts cap'n.

Consider the olive branch retracted.

Good luck in here, it's scary sometimes when the lights go out.

1908_Cubs
05-03-2010, 02:35 PM
Noone likes a bragger.



Consider the olive branch retracted.

Good luck in here, it's scary sometimes when the lights go out.

Damn straight. I just graduated with my masters. Everyone must know.

BDawk4Prez
05-03-2010, 02:36 PM
Damn straight. I just graduated with my masters. Everyone must know.

Finished mine May 08. Considered starting my Doctorate, just haven;t been froggy enough to jump.

Dr. BDawk4Prez has a nice ring to it though.

BDawk4Prez
05-03-2010, 02:37 PM
Cubs 3-0 since the Pirates conversion.

We may be on to something here.

1908_Cubs
05-03-2010, 02:42 PM
Finished mine May 08. Considered starting my Doctorate, just haven;t been froggy enough to jump.

Dr. BDawk4Prez has a nice ring to it though.

More like Dr. ******.

cowboydoc45
05-03-2010, 02:57 PM
Cubs 3-0 since the Pirates conversion.

We may be on to something here.

Its the avatar...

BDawk4Prez
05-03-2010, 03:06 PM
More like Dr. ******.

There is still hope for you, come with me, I will set you free.


Its the avatar...

Well that goes without saying..

davidfox11
05-03-2010, 03:08 PM
childish ways? Im ****ing 18 you ****ing dick head

i tried to warn you...little hint dont throw out that u are 18 as being proof u are not a child...guys in here like statistical backing to all claims not opinions, even if the opinion is from a world series winning manager...and my OPINION on the matter is that Fonty was so lost that rudy had to rebuild his swing from the beginning and his power will come back once he gets comfortable with the basics

cubs on dubs
05-03-2010, 03:19 PM
i tried to warn you...little hint dont throw out that u are 18 as being proof u are not a child...guys in here like statistical backing to all claims not opinions, even if the opinion is from a world series winning manager...and my OPINION on the matter is that Fonty was so lost that rudy had to rebuild his swing from the beginning and his power will come back once he gets comfortable with the basics

Alright good advice but since I heard that he wants him to be more a a flick the bat type hitter it doesnt really sound like his power will come back as long hes with that approach but again I could be wrong.

BDawk4Prez
05-03-2010, 03:31 PM
I just called The Little Lord and he said you could all suck it.

He will do what he damn well pleases.

redwhitenblue
05-03-2010, 03:55 PM
I do like the "I heard Brenly say Fontenot is sacrificing all his power because Rudy wants him to be a flick the bat type hitter"

Because that has never been said. Ever.

What has been said, is that Fontenot hasn't shown his power yet this season and that a changed approach may be causing that----which is completely different from "he's abandoned all power." That's more along the lines of "he's not completely comfortable with the swing yet and is working with it."


If you don't want to get blasted, simply don't get a masters from MSU (Make **** Up). Give something with a factual backing. If you think a guy said something, it better have been heard by a lot of people or be quoted in writing.

cowboydoc45
05-03-2010, 03:58 PM
I do like the "I heard Brenly say Fontenot is sacrificing all his power because Rudy wants him to be a flick the bat type hitter"

Because that has never been said. Ever.

What has been said, is that Fontenot hasn't shown his power yet this season and that a changed approach may be causing that----which is completely different from "he's abandoned all power." That's more along the lines of "he's not completely comfortable with the swing yet and is working with it."


If you don't want to get blasted, simply don't get a masters from MSU (Make **** Up). Give something with a factual backing. If you think a guy said something, it better have been heard by a lot of people or be quoted in writing.

This

cubs on dubs
05-03-2010, 04:08 PM
I do like the "I heard Brenly say Fontenot is sacrificing all his power because Rudy wants him to be a flick the bat type hitter"

Because that has never been said. Ever.

What has been said, is that Fontenot hasn't shown his power yet this season and that a changed approach may be causing that----which is completely different from "he's abandoned all power." That's more along the lines of "he's not completely comfortable with the swing yet and is working with it."


If you don't want to get blasted, simply don't get a masters from MSU (Make **** Up). Give something with a factual backing. If you think a guy said something, it better have been heard by a lot of people or be quoted in writing.

.....Sooooooo what you're saying is that since I heard something that nobody else heard im wrong? He said it during a game, I'm shocked that nobody else heard that. And for you to say that what I said has never been said is a flat out lie is a lie in itself. If I could find a link for it I would show you guys. He said" flick the bat type hitter" not the exact words but damn close. So yes I know im right because I actually heard it unlike you "fans."

Diehdcubsfan2
05-03-2010, 04:15 PM
I didnt make that brenly statement up what the ****??!!!!!???

Calm down, people are just saying you need proof. Maybe he did say that, but how can you prove that.

Like dog **** helps cure cancer if you eat it. I heard that from a doctor. Without a link its all hear say.

cubs on dubs
05-03-2010, 04:19 PM
I do like the "I heard Brenly say Fontenot is sacrificing all his power because Rudy wants him to be a flick the bat type hitter"

Because that has never been said. Ever.

What has been said, is that Fontenot hasn't shown his power yet this season and that a changed approach may be causing that----which is completely different from "he's abandoned all power." That's more along the lines of "he's not completely comfortable with the swing yet and is working with it."


If you don't want to get blasted, simply don't get a masters from MSU (Make **** Up). Give something with a factual backing. If you think a guy said something, it better have been heard by a lot of people or be quoted in writing.


I didn't "make **** up." I was watching the game and listening to Brenly when he said something nobody else on this forum heard. Stop jumping to conclusions. I'll take note that unless its written in stone and the whole world knows about it I wont talk about it. That should have been informative information for you guys but since its coming from a poster with under 10 posts you all choose to ignore it. I didn't know forums worked very similar to research papers. My bad i guess...

redwhitenblue
05-03-2010, 04:22 PM
I didn't "make **** up." I was watching the game and listening to Brenly when he said something nobody else on this forum heard. Stop jumping to conclusions. I'll take note that unless its written in stone and the whole world knows about it I wont talk about it. That should have been informative information for you guys but since its coming from a poster with under 10 posts you all choose to ignore it. I didn't know forums worked very similar to research papers. My bad i guess...
Considering you're new, you need to show a pattern of having credible information.


Also, I didn't say this in my first post, but since you're triple post replying, I'll reply here.

Brenly is not consulted in Cubs team meetings. Brenly is not present during film viewings. Brenly is not down giving his opinion to players or giving pointers to catchers. Brenly is an announcer. No different than a player in the booth, a former manager in the booth is still just an announcer. Brenly's opinions are formed from watching the practice and games, nothing more. Giving him more credit than that is blind faith. Reminds me of the ultimate love shown to Steve Stone before he 'left' the Cubs and people started realizing how much of a bumbling idiot he is.

Diehdcubsfan2
05-03-2010, 04:23 PM
I didn't "make **** up." I was watching the game and listening to Brenly when he said something nobody else on this forum heard. Stop jumping to conclusions. I'll take note that unless its written in stone and the whole world knows about it I wont talk about it. That should have been informative information for you guys but since its coming from a poster with under 10 posts you all choose to ignore it. I didn't know forums worked very similar to research papers. My bad i guess...

Of course credibility applies, as it should. You can't just walk into a room and start talking, we need to know a little about you. We need to know that what you have to say not only is truthful, but insightful, with 20 post and half defending yourself, how can we know what you'll all about.

Diehdcubsfan2
05-03-2010, 04:27 PM
Well i used to consider the best and biggest cubs fans are on this forum so i thought other posters might have heard that too. Then somebody might have believed me. But i guess i was wrong.

best and biggest, well there are many great posters that you can really learn from and talk great baseball, if thats what you meant. We have game threads, dedicated to the game itself even.

cubs on dubs
05-03-2010, 04:27 PM
And as for the proof you all should try watching Fontenot's at-bats very closely and see that he isnt hitting for power hes tryin to get the ball in play and making solid contact instead of really driving it. More wrist action, etc. But what the hell you guys arent scouts you're stat geeks.

cubs on dubs
05-03-2010, 04:30 PM
best and biggest, well there are many great posters that you can really learn from and talk great baseball, if thats what you meant. We have game threads, dedicated to the game itself even.

Yeah thats what i meant. I've been reading some of the higher posters posts and it seems like you guys are well educated about the Cubs so I just assumed you guys payed attention to the entire game. Thought maybe one more person mighta caught it.

Diehdcubsfan2
05-03-2010, 04:31 PM
For a player like Font, I would want him trying to make consistent contact, instead of trying to hit HR. His HR come from a pitcher making mistakes that allow him to drive something. Just the other day, I saw him try to drive a pitch, since I watched a baseball game, once in my life.

Mell413
05-03-2010, 04:32 PM
I think Fontenot's power will come around. He's hitting like 25% line drives. I think the extra base hits will come. He did hit a couple of hard singles on saturday. He's like one homerun from having his slugging percentage in the .400 range. If he had just 1 homerun I doubt we are even having the discussion.

davidfox11
05-03-2010, 04:34 PM
.....Sooooooo what you're saying is that since I heard something that nobody else heard im wrong? He said it during a game, I'm shocked that nobody else heard that. And for you to say that what I said has never been said is a flat out lie is a lie in itself. If I could find a link for it I would show you guys. He said" flick the bat type hitter" not the exact words but damn close. So yes I know im right because I actually heard it unlike you "fans."


he is not lying i heard it to during a game, just cant remember which one, i do believe that he was saying that fonty was giving up some power to have more contact, i dont beleive it was meant that he was not looking to give up all of his power, like i said before he is having his swing rebuilt and needs to work up to driving the ball with autority on a consistent basis

redwhitenblue
05-03-2010, 04:35 PM
I think Fontenot's power will come around. He's hitting like 25% line drives. I think the extra base hits will come. He did hit a couple of hard singles on saturday. He's like one homerun from having his slugging percentage in the .400 range. If he had just 1 homerun I doubt we are even having the discussion.
But Brenly said it.

I've seen what Brenly can do.

redwhitenblue
05-03-2010, 04:36 PM
he is not lying i heard it to during a game, just cant remember which one, i do believe that he was saying that fonty was giving up some power to have more contact, i dont beleive it was meant that he was not looking to give up all of his power, like i said before he is having his swing rebuilt and needs to work up to driving the ball with autority on a consistent basis
Now I can agree with this. A lot of guys do this-hell Ramirez needs to start doing it because he is overswinging.

He's just not completely comfortable with the new approach yet and is working his way there. With his LD% still high and no injury/old age, the power won't disappear.

Milnertime
05-03-2010, 04:38 PM
And as for the proof you all should try watching Fontenot's at-bats very closely and see that he isnt hitting for power hes tryin to get the ball in play and making solid contact instead of really driving it. More wrist action, etc. But what the hell you guys arent scouts you're stat geeks.
And you're a ****ing baseball scouting prodigy at the age of 18. :rolleyes:

We've all seen Fontenot's ABs. We've seen his approach. We understand that he's not had a great power swing yet.

He's also adjusting to his new stance and swing, and hasn't been seeing that many pitches on the inner half of the plate.

His pitch f/x plots show he's only seeing about a quarter of his pitches from the middle in. In 2008, it was a lot closer to equal on both sides of the plate.

Milnertime
05-03-2010, 04:39 PM
Done wasting my time with things not about the Cubs. If you have something productive to say then say it. Im done with the ******** kid.
Interesting that you call us "kids."

I mean, I'm not old, but I'm definitely not a kid.

And BTW, insults are so much weaker from a person who can't spell correctly....that's just some advice.

cubs on dubs
05-03-2010, 04:40 PM
And you're a ****ing baseball scouting prodigy at the age of 18. :rolleyes:

We've all seen Fontenot's ABs. We've seen his approach. We understand that he's not had a great power swing yet.

He's also adjusting to his new stance and swing, and hasn't been seeing that many pitches on the inner half of the plate.

His pitch f/x plots show he's only seeing about a quarter of his pitches from the middle in. In 2008, it was a lot closer to equal on both sides of the plate.

No but I've played baseball my entire life and I know enough about mechanics of pitching and hitting to know what signs to look for when you hear that he is changing his approach to a flick type hitter.

cubs on dubs
05-03-2010, 04:41 PM
Interesting that you call us "kids."

I mean, I'm not old, but I'm definitely not a kid.

And BTW, insults are so much weaker from a person who can't spell correctly....that's just some advice.

That wasn't an insult kid. Just sayin it hows I sees it.

Milnertime
05-03-2010, 04:44 PM
No but I've played baseball my entire life and I know enough about mechanics of pitching and hitting to know what signs to look for when you hear that he is changing his approach to a flick type hitter.
So you think that your playing career of apparently 18 years isn't matched by anyone here?

Nobody else could possible have played baseball longer than you, or possible know more about it than you, could they?


And just so you know, playing is not understanding. At all.

Case and Point: Joe Morgan.

cowboydoc45
05-03-2010, 04:46 PM
So you think that your playing career of apparently 18 years isn't matched by anyone here?

Nobody else could possible have played baseball longer than you, or possible know more about it than you, could they?


And just so you know, playing is not understanding. At all.

Case and Point: Aaron Miles.

Fixed that for you... at least Morgan was some what respectable

cubs on dubs
05-03-2010, 04:46 PM
So you think that your playing career of apparently 18 years isn't matched by anyone here?

Nobody else could possible have played baseball longer than you, or possible know more about it than you, could they?


And just so you know, playing is not understanding. At all.

Case and Point: Joe Morgan.

Blah blah blah no **** sherlock. I've been coached by coached who worked with guys like Miles Clauss (Texas pitcher a few years ago who transferred to NC state) and Christian Friedrich who was the Rockies first round pick in 08'. So i think he knows what hes talking about when hes teaching me the mechanics of the game for years.

Mell413
05-03-2010, 04:46 PM
If I'm reading the numbers right, it shows that Fonty is making more contact on pitches outside the zone. He's also seeing less pitches inside the zone. So I'm getting the impression that he's not getting many pitches that he can drive.

1908_Cubs
05-03-2010, 04:53 PM
That's great for you. I really wish you all the best.

That still doesn't mean that you know what you're talking about.


And, just a suggestion, but you might want to spend less time being "coached" and more time learning how to properly structure sentences and how to write your own language.

People like you make our country a laughing stock in the international community.
Being coached and knowing what you're talking about are two separate functions. I don't care if goddamned Don Mattingly was your coach, it doesn't mean you know your head from your *******.

Also, I too, hate people who cannot convey a simple thought into written form.

davidfox11
05-03-2010, 04:53 PM
Blah blah blah no **** sherlock. I've been coached by coached who worked with guys like Miles Clauss (Texas pitcher a few years ago who transferred to NC state) and Christian Friedrich who was the Rockies first round pick in 08'. So i think he knows what hes talking about when hes teaching me the mechanics of the game for years.

and who are these coaches, i believe they went to different high schools in the chicago area (if memory serves), so it either had to be a private coach or somewhere like a bulls sox academy

redwhitenblue
05-03-2010, 04:54 PM
Blah blah blah no **** sherlock. I've been coached by coached who worked with guys like Miles Clauss (Texas pitcher a few years ago who transferred to NC state) and Christian Friedrich who was the Rockies first round pick in 08'. So i think he knows what hes talking about when hes teaching me the mechanics of the game for years.
So what?

A team I played for had a couple early round draft picks and some very good college players, but our coach was a total imbecile.

redwhitenblue
05-03-2010, 04:54 PM
and who are these coaches, i believe they went to different high schools in the chicago area (if memory serves), so it either had to be a private coach or somewhere like a bulls sox academy
:laugh2: From someone who lives 2 blocks away from the Bulls-Sox academy, their coaching is ridiculous.

cowboydoc45
05-03-2010, 04:55 PM
and who are these coaches, i believe they went to different high schools in the chicago area (if memory serves), so it either had to be a private coach or somewhere like a bulls sox academy

sounds like they were college players (and a '08 top draft pick that is coaching... maybe he should think about that too.:eyebrow:)

davidfox11
05-03-2010, 05:02 PM
:laugh2: From someone who lives 2 blocks away from the Bulls-Sox academy, their coaching is ridiculous.

that is what i was gonna say not all of the coaches there are quality, there are some quality ones, but i will tell u right now that i know exactly what the level of coaching is in those places

Milnertime
05-03-2010, 05:03 PM
If I'm reading the numbers right, it shows that Fonty is making more contact on pitches outside the zone. He's also seeing less pitches inside the zone. So I'm getting the impression that he's not getting many pitches that he can drive.
Nice find, Rick.

Jilly Bohnson
05-03-2010, 05:05 PM
Take it for what it's worth, but Muskrat says if Theriot were to get injured in the immediate future it would be Barney and not Castro to get the callup.

redwhitenblue
05-03-2010, 05:09 PM
Take it for what it's worth, but Muskrat says if Theriot were to get injured in the immediate future it would be Barney and not Castro to get the callup.
You know how credible your information is when you start it with "Muskrat says"

Jilly Bohnson
05-03-2010, 05:12 PM
You know how credible your information is when you start it with "Muskrat says"

Yeah, she's a '**** but I felt it needed to be shared just in case she stumbled onto a legit opinion.

Diehdcubsfan2
05-03-2010, 05:14 PM
Yeah, she's a '**** but I felt it needed to be shared just in case she stumbled onto a legit opinion.

Maybe show teams what hes got, then trade his ***. Then call up Castro

davidfox11
05-03-2010, 05:17 PM
Take it for what it's worth, but Muskrat says if Theriot were to get injured in the immediate future it would be Barney and not Castro to get the callup.

would have trusted u more with cubsondubs says

cubs on dubs
05-03-2010, 06:15 PM
you are showing ur age to these guys by talking about lohan...who have u been coached by...i take it u are in college and are no longer playing ball?

I was coached in pitching by Steve Sakas. Hit with Tony Tichy. Sakas is the best there is on the northshore. And no I dont play ball anymore I was a pitcher and I kept trying to make comebacks but my arm screwed me over with elbow problems the last 2 years i played. Im not gunna lie my curveball was a legit major league hook but my FB was only like 85mph.

cubs on dubs
05-03-2010, 06:16 PM
topped out at 85 probably consistenly at 83

redwhitenblue
05-03-2010, 06:18 PM
Yeah, and my stroke was on Par with Sammy Sosa.
My arm was legit major league for a catcher, but the problem was I hit like Jason Kendall (though I do have fond memories of my only 2 HR game)

cubs on dubs
05-03-2010, 06:21 PM
haha you guys can believe what you want Im not gunna force anything on you guys I'm just saying it because someone asked me who coached me, etc. Whatever

redwhitenblue
05-03-2010, 06:30 PM
No, everybody knows. Nobody cares though.
It certainly helps weed out the weinies.

The strong survive, they learn and adapt to at least follow common sense.

The weak fall back to the Cubs.com forums.

KID_Natural
05-03-2010, 06:31 PM
If YOU want to think like that, then ok. And yes my mom would still be proud of me if i wrote like a retarted monkey on an internet forum. She would be dissapointed if i wrote like this for a term paper...Big difference, in my opinion, RWB.

Always write the way in which you wish to be perceived. There's a reason the big posters comment on grammar; it's hard to take someone seriously...when they're a "retarted" monkey.

redwhitenblue
05-03-2010, 06:34 PM
Always write the way in which you wish to be perceived. There's a reason the big posters comment on grammar; it's hard to take someone seriously...when they're a "retarted" monkey.
:laugh2: Nice catch.

I even gave him the spelling on that one.

KID_Natural
05-03-2010, 06:39 PM
I was going to mock your signature, but then I thought, the Red Wings already have two losses...FML.

Hawk's tie it tonight. 'Nuff said.

redwhitenblue
05-03-2010, 06:40 PM
Says the guy who spells English with an I.
That was just a typo. It could happen to anyone. "E" and "I" are right next to each other on my keyboard. . .

cubs on dubs
05-03-2010, 06:49 PM
Says the guy who spells English with an I.

And it's not impossible to be informed and spell like an idiot.

BMD spells terribly. He admits it. However, he makes good points on a regular basis, despite like Notre Dame.

I purposely spelled english with an I. And im gunna keep writing the way i want as long as im getting my point across. If someone cares about grammar that much they probably have other issues in their life right now and they're taking it out on something stupid like grammar in a Cubs forum. So thats their problem. Make all the comments you'd like about my grammar but jsut know that your not teaching me anything i already know i just dont care.

KID_Natural
05-03-2010, 06:51 PM
That was just a typo. It could happen to anyone. "E" and "I" are right next to each other on my keyboard. . .

Ah yes, you have Dvorak Keyboard.

redwhitenblue
05-03-2010, 06:52 PM
I purposely spelled english with an I. And im gunna keep writing the way i want as long as im getting my point across. If someone cares about grammar that much they probably have other issues in their life right now and they're taking it out on something stupid like grammar in a Cubs forum. So thats their problem. Make all the comments you'd like about my grammar but jsut know that your not teaching me anything i already know i just dont care.
You're not getting any point across though.

Milnertime
05-03-2010, 06:53 PM
I purposely spelled english with an I. And im gunna keep writing the way i want as long as im getting my point across. If someone cares about grammar that much they probably have other issues in their life right now and they're taking it out on something stupid like grammar in a Cubs forum. So thats their problem. Make all the comments you'd like about my grammar but jsut know that your not teaching me anything i already know i just dont care.
The only point you're getting across is that you're a daft ex-jock who never learned anything in school because you thought you might have a shot at playing some pro ball at some point after you graduated (there's also a strong possibility that you didn't/won't graduate on time).

Then that fell through and now you rely on Spelling and Grammar Check in Microsoft Word to write anything correctly.

croce_99
05-03-2010, 07:12 PM
This thread went from 18 pages to 15 pages and lost a member in a matter of seconds :pity:

KID_Natural
05-03-2010, 07:19 PM
Did he just delete all of his posts?

croce_99
05-03-2010, 07:21 PM
I deleted a handful of them. Could delete more, but my wrist hurt from clicking too much

Milnertime
05-03-2010, 07:28 PM
Well, that was fun while it lasted.

Diehdcubsfan2
05-03-2010, 07:35 PM
I bet we have a new Crazy Guy, he wants vengeance. He will attack all of us.

Doogolas
05-03-2010, 08:42 PM
I purposely spelled english with an I. And im gunna keep writing the way i want as long as im getting my point across. If someone cares about grammar that much they probably have other issues in their life right now and they're taking it out on something stupid like grammar in a Cubs forum. So thats their problem. Make all the comments you'd like about my grammar but jsut know that your not teaching me anything i already know i just dont care.

Oh really? Because grammar on the internet is very similar to the way someone speaks in real life. For example if a guy walks into a room and starts talking to you, and he says things like this:

"Y'all done does know which way they gets that thar thangs fer their comp'nay." You're going to assume he's an idiot.

When you try to get a point across and you come off as though you don't actually know the way around your own language nobody is going to take you seriously.

redwhitenblue
05-03-2010, 08:46 PM
Let's have a moment of silence for cubs on dubs.



*taps playing silently in background*





















Thank you. You may now resume posting.

Str1fe5
05-03-2010, 08:46 PM
lol what did i miss?

Milnertime
05-03-2010, 09:28 PM
Not much.

Just the typical "I played baseball so I know everything" argument.

Diehdcubsfan2
05-03-2010, 09:29 PM
lol what did i miss?

Stupidity and ambiguity in its greatest form.

chicagofan71
05-03-2010, 09:37 PM
Ok back to the point:

Per John Perrotto at BP:


Cubs general manager Jim Hendry acknowledges that Double-A shortstop Starlin Castro will be in the major leagues at some point this season, but those close to the situation believe he could make his debut by the end of this month, with Ryan Theriot moving from shortstop to second base.

EDIT: **** forgot its subscription only...sorry. Well NSBB had it so here ya go

Doogolas
05-03-2010, 09:40 PM
Ok back to the point:

Per John Perrotto at BP:



EDIT: **** forgot its subscription only...sorry. Well NSBB had it so here ya go

****ing stupid Hendry.

Diehdcubsfan2
05-03-2010, 09:41 PM
Ok back to the point:

Per John Perrotto at BP:



http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=10751

Interesting, I just don't really get it.

So Castro at SS, Theriot at 2B

Little Lord - Lefty of bench

So who goes, Tracy or Baker?

I would rather trade Theriot still, at this moment he has value, teams could use him, we need pen help. The 2B platoon is working when used right.

Again this is if Castro actually does come up.

KID_Natural
05-03-2010, 09:42 PM
Ok back to the point:

Per John Perrotto at BP:



EDIT: **** forgot its subscription only...sorry. Well NSBB had it so here ya go

I don't understand Hendry's motivation to say this, Fontenot and Theriot are both hitting the ball pretty well, why put this in the back of their minds? There's no rush to bring Starlin up right now.

Str1fe5
05-03-2010, 10:02 PM
This just sounds like a combination of the Levine report from a few days ago coupled with Hendry's interview the other day.

chicagofan71
05-03-2010, 10:29 PM
This just sounds like a combination of the Levine report from a few days ago coupled with Hendry's interview the other day.

That's what I thought too, but it's an update atleast :shrug:

And it did specify a general date, although not necessarily as specific as Levine's. This also came 4 days after Levine's and 3 after Hendry's so I think this qualifies as an update

Yagyu+
05-03-2010, 11:02 PM
This thread went from 18 pages to 15 pages and lost a member in a matter of seconds :pity:

What is this, the Pirates Forum?

Gyarrrrgggg!

cowboydoc45
05-03-2010, 11:21 PM
I deleted a handful of them. Could delete more, but my wrist hurt from clicking too much

:facepalm: I could do so much with this post... (holds back masturbation jokes)

cowboydoc45
05-03-2010, 11:24 PM
Interesting, I just don't really get it.

So Castro at SS, Theriot at 2B

Little Lord - Lefty of bench

So who goes, Tracy or Baker?

I would rather trade Theriot still, at this moment he has value, teams could use him, we need pen help. The 2B platoon is working when used right.

Again this is if Castro actually does come up.

If either Tracy or Baker go, it will probably be Tracy. Fontenot would give us a left off the bench, which was really Tracy's only value. Baker can sub at 1b, 2b, 3b... Fontenot can play 2b, SS, 3B... Theriot can play 2B, SS... and if Castro does pan out, he can play SS. Infield is adequately covered, bye Tracy!!

edit: after looking at this, maybe we should bring up Castro... we would have 3 guys for each position in the IF, and at least 2 for each OF position... talk about depth

cubsneedmiracle
05-04-2010, 12:01 PM
hahaha looks like I missed a lot in this thread.

faithfulfan
05-04-2010, 12:12 PM
I certainly don't want to see the kid brought up before he is ready, but I am definately excited to see what he can do. From the reports from the team and in this thread, it sounds like he is (or very very close to being) ready.

As far as who stays and who goes, I would have to think that Tracy is the odd man out unless a trade is made. I would think that Theriot moves to second (like earlier reported) and Fontenot and Baker remain on the bench giving a backup to every infield spot.

If there is a trade made I would think that Theriot would be the easiest to move. However, Hendry has said that Theriot would shift to second, therefore making me think if there is a trade it would be Fontenot. That would leave a bench of Colvin, Nady, Hill, Baker, and Tracy. Maybe trade Fontenot and some specs for a bullpen arm.

Just thinking outloud.

faithfulfan
05-04-2010, 12:18 PM
Where has Castro been hitting in the order for TEN? Where do you think he would be put in our batting order when called up assuming the Theriot moving to second base scenario. I would think that Soto moves up to 7th in the order and Castro hits 8th. Another scenario I could see is Castro hitting 2nd.

AddisonStation
05-04-2010, 01:16 PM
Where has Castro been hitting in the order for TEN? Where do you think he would be put in our batting order when called up assuming the Theriot moving to second base scenario. I would think that Soto moves up to 7th in the order and Castro hits 8th. Another scenario I could see is Castro hitting 2nd.

I've been to two Smokies games this year and he batted 2nd both times.

windycityD
05-04-2010, 02:51 PM
I've been to two Smokies games this year and he batted 2nd both times.

Which he'd not hit up here, at least this season under Lou. The only spot you could hit him is #7. That way, he would have some exp/ protection behind him and would actually see pitches as opposed to being semi-pitched around in front of the pitcher hitting 8th.

Castro has no realistic fit in this line up where more production is needed, that being #3 & 4, right now.

cowboydoc45
05-04-2010, 03:01 PM
Which he'd not hit up here, at least this season under Lou. The only spot you could hit him is #7. That way, he would have some exp/ protection behind him and would actually see pitches as opposed to being semi-pitched around in front of the pitcher hitting 8th.

Castro has no realistic fit in this line up where more production is needed, that being #3 & 4, right now.

We have a 3 and 4... they just need to stop sucking at baseball...

BDawk4Prez
05-04-2010, 03:10 PM
DLee and Aram, please come back.

:sigh:

Milnertime
05-04-2010, 03:36 PM
DLee and Aram, please come back.

:sigh:
The Pirates' pitching can cure any slump.

BDawk4Prez
05-04-2010, 03:37 PM
The Pirates' pitching can cure any slump.

I think you mispelled that the "Pirates are awesome."

davidfox11
05-04-2010, 03:59 PM
I certainly don't want to see the kid brought up before he is ready, but I am definately excited to see what he can do. From the reports from the team and in this thread, it sounds like he is (or very very close to being) ready.

As far as who stays and who goes, I would have to think that Tracy is the odd man out unless a trade is made. I would think that Theriot moves to second (like earlier reported) and Fontenot and Baker remain on the bench giving a backup to every infield spot.

If there is a trade made I would think that Theriot would be the easiest to move. However, Hendry has said that Theriot would shift to second, therefore making me think if there is a trade it would be Fontenot. That would leave a bench of Colvin, Nady, Hill, Baker, and Tracy. Maybe trade Fontenot and some specs for a bullpen arm.

Just thinking outloud.

i disagree and think that if tracy is not the odd man out and they look to make a trade that traded player would be baker, my guess is to the A's or O's for a player to be named (because that is what it always is)

Doogolas
05-04-2010, 04:02 PM
The most obvious player to trade is Theriot cause he, by himself, has the most value and we can get equal to better production out of a Fonty/Baker platoon as we can having Theriot play 2B himself.

Cubs420
05-05-2010, 01:20 PM
The most obvious player to trade is Theriot cause he, by himself, has the most value and we can get equal to better production out of a Fonty/Baker platoon as we can having Theriot play 2B himself.

Trade Lee and Theriot to the Padres for Adrian Gonzalez... :D

Have little Mikey and Baker hold down second and bring up Castro to play SS.

I like Theriot, but if we can get A.Gonzalez out of him, i would do it in a second.