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View Full Version : Are Durant's supporting cast better than Kobe's?



fairandbalanced
04-26-2010, 06:55 PM
I've heard so many groaning about Kobe missing shots, I agree, Kobe is struggling but so is Durant. They are both shooting under .40 percent from the field but people are more likely to blame Kobe for the Lakers lack of effort against the Thunder. If Kobe and Durant's ppg/fg% are essentially similar, would you say the Durant have a better supporting cast than Kobe?

DerekRE_3
04-26-2010, 06:57 PM
no

blackjack_119
04-26-2010, 06:59 PM
Kobe's cast is better. Kobe, however, isn't.

Bruno
04-26-2010, 06:59 PM
They're certainly outplaying the Lakers supporting cast.

Russell Westbrook has been the best player in this series, by a mile.

ryder78c
04-26-2010, 07:02 PM
Kobe

Artest Odom Gasol Fisher

Durant

Westbrook Green Harden


Lakers will win the series and durants jersey sales and the thunders merchandise sales will go up after the series

ManRam
04-26-2010, 07:03 PM
They can outplay them at times...but the easy answer is no.

Russy evens things up a bit...but the Lakers, when playing like they can, are a much better team. Durant outplaying Kobe is helping a ton too, and making the supporting casts look more equal than they are.

With that said, OKC's role players all perform their roles very well. Right now, they just want it more.

sventhedog
04-26-2010, 07:11 PM
no? how else in the world do you think they got the number 1 seed in the west?

Swashcuff
04-26-2010, 07:13 PM
No they are not. But they are certainly capable of outplaying them on a given night and that exactly what they have done the past 2 games. But I do believe that we all know that Kobe has a better supporting cast.

Lets put it this way

Fisher < Westbrook
Ron > Thabo
Odom > Green
Pau > Kristic
Bynum > Ibaka

but as far as the rest of the bench however is a different story with OKC's being considerably better than the Laker's. Harden and Maynor aren't scrubs by no means.

D Roses Bulls
04-26-2010, 07:14 PM
I've heard so many groaning about Kobe missing shots, I agree, Kobe is struggling but so is Durant. They are both shooting under .40 percent from the field but people are more likely to blame Kobe for the Lakers lack of effort against the Thunder. If Kobe and Durant's ppg/fg% are essentially similar, would you say the Durant have a better supporting cast than Kobe?

no. odom, gasol, artest, if it wasnt for fisher getting owned constantly, this series wouldnt be tied

what54!?
04-26-2010, 07:16 PM
no the thunder are just playing harder than the lakers. another great thread FB

smith&wesson
04-26-2010, 07:17 PM
I think okc's yonge legs is whats really giving the lakers trouble.

bigsams50
04-26-2010, 07:17 PM
No

kjoke
04-26-2010, 07:17 PM
Kobe's cast is better. Kobe, however, isn't.

ouch

bbblack40
04-26-2010, 07:20 PM
I've heard so many groaning about Kobe missing shots, I agree, Kobe is struggling but so is Durant. They are both shooting under .40 percent from the field but people are more likely to blame Kobe for the Lakers lack of effort against the Thunder. If Kobe and Durant's ppg/fg% are essentially similar, would you say the Durant have a better supporting cast than Kobe?

The kobe's supporting cast is better but the difference is Durant is out playing Kobe. Yea they are both shootin poorly but durant is doin other things like hittin the boards, runnin the floor, and he has fresher legs.

FOBolous
04-26-2010, 07:22 PM
wow...this can't be a serious question

tredigs
04-26-2010, 07:45 PM
The Lakers have a better cast, and by a good margin. It probably won't be like that for long, but it is for now. Durant's FG% is down because the Lakers have one of the best man-defenders in the league on him, and are double teaming him off the ball and forcing him into tough shots. The Thunder are not focusing their defense on Kobe like the Lakers are to Durant, he's just facing solid man defender(s) in Sefalosha and sometimes Durant, and he isn't making his shots.

That said, it's going to have to be the other players that need to win this series for the Lakers or Thunder. If Bynum, Lamar and Pau play to their full potential, the Lakers will be too much for the Thunder's bigs to handle. And if the other Thunder can join Westbrook and step up their game and take advantage of the open shots they're getting due to the double teams Durant's receiving all game, then they will take this series.

Toenail Clipper
04-26-2010, 08:03 PM
Maybe the Thunder might have a better bench, but that's it

Chronz
04-26-2010, 08:07 PM
I dont think Ive ever seen a 1 seed lose to an 8th seed with the underdogs star player, playing so poorly. If Thunder get past them I can already see the undeserved credit going to Durant.

Geargo Wallace
04-26-2010, 08:16 PM
no. Durant is playing better than Kobe though.

tredigs
04-26-2010, 08:22 PM
I dont think Ive ever seen a 1 seed lose to an 8th seed with the underdogs star player, playing so poorly. If Thunder get past them I can already see the undeserved credit going to Durant.

Tough to say that, though there's not too significant of a precedence for 8's beating 1's. The Lakers with Kobe/Artest on him are the toughest challenge for Durant in the league. Playoffs are about matchups, and the Thunders strength in this series is the fact that Durant draws the vast majority of the Lakers focus on defense, and they have a huge advantage at point against the dead fish.

Still, he's putting up 27/9/2 and playing excellent D; he just needs to start knocking them down with a bit better efficiency. Or better yet, have Harden/Sefalosha/Green actually make a few shots to ease up the offensive load on him and allow himself a little more room to work.

JasonJohnHorn
04-26-2010, 08:27 PM
There isnt a player on the Thunder right now that could even hope to compare to Gasol! And though I respect Westbrook and think he will be great, right now, there isnt a player on the Thunder better than Bynum, Odom or Artest. I think its the bench for LA that is killing them. They arent shooting well. Game two, Farmar was 1-3, Brown was 1-4 and Walton was 0-2. That 2-9! Game 4 Farmar was 1-7! Brown was 2-8. Walton was 1-3. Its not guys like Artest, Odom, Gasol and Bynum that arent hitting, the Lakers, they are a GREAT supporting cast, the best five man rotation in the league, easily. But Fischer, as good as he is, is just not Westbrook and would be better as a back, and his back up isnt even playing as well as him.



So the Thunder are exploiting the match-up at point guard, and their bench is shooting better. And yes, Jackson was right, Kobe should shoot less (or shoot better), but the problem is the right players arent taking those shots that Kobe isnt. Odom, Gasol, Artest and Bynum should be taking those shots. The Laker starters (Kobe's core supporting staff) are beating the Thunder starters, but the help off the bench is just not enough for LA, even if Odom is one of the best guys coming off the bench in the entire league (anybody with half a brain knows Odom would be starting on 90% of the teams in the league: OKC included).

_KB24_
04-26-2010, 08:47 PM
The Lakers destroy them in the inside with terms of talent, and the Thunder do so on the backcourt. The Thunder have the deeper bench, but the Lakers have the better starters. The Thunder have the hustle and feistiness, the Lakers have the experience. I still have the Lakers by a marginal amount.

Sadds The Gr8
04-26-2010, 08:51 PM
wtf? are u kidding me with this question?

Gilly1254
04-26-2010, 09:08 PM
Lakers easily... But, with the focus being on Durant and as good as Durant is it makes his teammates play better

Hellcrooner
04-26-2010, 09:08 PM
no but fisher is a liability in defense and westbrook is taking afdvantage of it while pau and drew ( mainly becas ethey are not getting enough touches) are not taking advantage of green, kristic and ibka being shorter and worse.

DerekRE_3
04-26-2010, 09:10 PM
I dont think Ive ever seen a 1 seed lose to an 8th seed with the underdogs star player, playing so poorly. If Thunder get past them I can already see the undeserved credit going to Durant.

That may be, but he still demands a ton of attention, which helps his teammates out.

xBLAMEITON24x
04-26-2010, 09:24 PM
no chance lakers are just getting out hustled

showtym24
04-26-2010, 09:24 PM
Kobe's cast is better. Kobe, however, isn't.

Give KD kobes injuries and he wouldnt be playin cheif. :cool:

iggypop123
04-26-2010, 09:25 PM
No they are not. But they are certainly capable of outplaying them on a given night and that exactly what they have done the past 2 games. But I do believe that we all know that Kobe has a better supporting cast.

Lets put it this way

Fisher <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Westbrook
Ron > Thabo
Odom > Green
Pau > Kristic
Bynum > Ibaka

but as far as the rest of the bench however is a different story with OKC's being considerably better than the Laker's. Harden and Maynor aren't scrubs by no means.

fixed

CowboysKB24
04-26-2010, 09:36 PM
No

THE MTL
04-26-2010, 10:03 PM
This cannot be serious. The only thing is that I just dont like Artest cause he seems more interested in sucking Kobe's dick then doing anything else.

ARMIN12NBA
04-26-2010, 10:26 PM
Durant's PG in Russel Wesbrook has a huge advantage over the Lakers point guards as the Lakers point guard spot is their biggest weakness and one of the weakest in the league. The fact that the Thunder bigs are able to neutralize the Lakers bigs is what makes everything so interesting.

Lakers supporting cast is better, but the Thunder just have such a large advantage at that one spot which the Lakers do not have at any other spot.

jrodmesche
04-26-2010, 10:31 PM
Yes Gafag is on the Lakers nuff said

topdog
04-26-2010, 10:37 PM
No way. Better guards, sure. But they are majorly outmanned in the post. Once the Lakers get serious and give it to Gasol and Bynum, it's over.

roshan3ai
04-26-2010, 10:37 PM
absolfreakly not

Chronz
04-26-2010, 11:52 PM
That may be, but he still demands a ton of attention, which helps his teammates out.

Yea but you could say that about a plethora of stars, that shouldnt distinguish him.

Chronz
04-26-2010, 11:58 PM
Durant's PG in Russel Wesbrook has a huge advantage over the Lakers point guards as the Lakers point guard spot is their biggest weakness and one of the weakest in the league. The fact that the Thunder bigs are able to neutralize the Lakers bigs is what makes everything so interesting.

Lakers supporting cast is better, but the Thunder just have such a large advantage at that one spot which the Lakers do not have at any other spot.
I see it differently Lakers are winning the bigs spot but Durant has neutralized Kobe, Artest has lost his shot yet again come playoff time so Thabo/Harden are dominating the matchup of roleplaying swings, and the huge edge at the one is whats offset the advantage the Lakers have had in the post.

ARMIN12NBA
04-27-2010, 12:05 AM
I see it differently Lakers are winning the bigs spot but Durant has neutralized Kobe, Artest has lost his shot yet again come playoff time so Thabo/Harden are dominating the matchup of roleplaying swings, and the huge edge at the one is whats offset the advantage the Lakers have had in the post.

The bigs have been outrebounded badly the last two games. The bigs haven't been able to get back on transition defense. They are allowing way too many offensive board and are late on switches.

Pau, Bynum, and Odom have said as much. The bigs have been neutralized in this series for sure.

slack_justin
04-27-2010, 12:16 AM
HELL NO! but westbrook is better than any of the supporting lakers. but overall lakers are the better supporting cast

tredigs
04-27-2010, 12:16 AM
Yea but you could say that about a plethora of stars, that shouldnt distinguish him.

You can't, though. He demands more attention from the Lakers, and most teams in general than virtually any other player in the game. Double teams off the ball? There's a very, very small amount of players in this league who ever see that. He's seen it all series. The attention he garners from opposing defenses is very different than you see for most stars.


I see it differently Lakers are winning the bigs spot but Durant has neutralized Kobe, Artest has lost his shot yet again come playoff time so Thabo/Harden are dominating the matchup of roleplaying swings, and the huge edge at the one is whats offset the advantage the Lakers have had in the post.

Thabo and Harden are shooting 29% and 39% respectively. Jeff Green is also shooting 29%. It's really been a story of Westbrook and Durant, along with a solid team D that's been anchored by Serge Ibaka down low. He's giving the Lakers bigs hell.

Raph12
04-27-2010, 12:21 AM
Are they better? No.

Have they played better? Yes.

ARMIN12NBA
04-27-2010, 12:21 AM
You can't, though. He demands more attention from the Lakers, and most teams in general than virtually any other player in the game. Double teams off the ball? There's a very, very small amount of players in this league who ever see that. He's seen it all series. The attention he garners from opposing defenses is very different than you see for most stars.

The Lakers have been playing him man on man all series with Ron Artest. There are only double teams off of picks, but that is to be expected.

Chronz
04-27-2010, 12:28 AM
The bigs have been outrebounded badly the last two games. The bigs haven't been able to get back on transition defense. They are allowing way too many offensive board and are late on switches.

Pau, Bynum, and Odom have said as much. The bigs have been neutralized in this series for sure.
Im speaking on the series as a whole, the Bigs have also dominated. Neutralized would mean the Thunders bigs have put up somewhat comparable production. If the Bigs have been neutralized then Kobe has been outplayed just as much. If what you were saying were true the Thunder would be up 3-1 or something because if they are clearly dominating the PG position, clearly neutralizing Kobe, and Artest is clearly not contributing offensively, then what advantage does that leave the Lakers. The Thunder "bigs" have done a good job of competing but they arent neutralizing anyone.

tredigs
04-27-2010, 12:29 AM
The Lakers have been playing him man on man all series with Ron Artest. There are only double teams off of picks, but that is to be expected.

They single with Artest if he's around 20ft or deeper. As soon as he creeps in any combination of Pau/Odom/Kobe are creeping over for the double. They're actually tripling off of the picks if you figure that Pau is staying high off the key just to catch them and close off the passing lane. Only time I've seen a team do that against the Thunder this year, and it works. Doesn't allow him to peel off a screen and pop a quick shot before the defender can fully recover. Bottom line is that it's an elaborate defense constructed around stopping KD, and I think the Lakers are doing a damn good job with it. They just have no answer for the Thunder D or Westbrook at this point.

Chronz
04-27-2010, 12:31 AM
You can't, though. He demands more attention from the Lakers, and most teams in general than virtually any other player in the game. Double teams off the ball? There's a very, very small amount of players in this league who ever see that. He's seen it all series. The attention he garners from opposing defenses is very different than you see for most stars.
Maybe today (even though I can count like 4 off the top of my head doing that in this playoff outing alone) but historically speaking hes not doing anything I havent seen every star do, aside from struggling to score yet still be in the series.



Thabo and Harden are shooting 29% and 39% respectively. Jeff Green is also shooting 29%. It's really been a story of Westbrook and Durant, along with a solid team D that's been anchored by Serge Ibaka down low. He's giving the Lakers bigs hell.
You fail to see the point Ive made, that they are dominating the swing role player position. You think those stats are bad, look at Artest.

And your still not getting the right picture from those stats, look at Hardens TS%, its at 66%. His per possession efficiency is impressive and has been the x-factor in their wins.

The team D has been impressive all year, but Durant struggling to such a degree is about as typical as it happening to Kobe. Had Kobe been his usual self this series wouldnt look so close.

Chronz
04-27-2010, 12:35 AM
They single with Artest if he's around 20ft or deeper. As soon as he creeps in any combination of Pau/Odom/Kobe are creeping over for the double. They're actually tripling off of the picks if you figure that Pau is staying high off the key just to catch them and close off the passing lane. Only time I've seen a team do that against the Thunder this year, and it works. Doesn't allow him to peel off a screen and pop a quick shot before the defender can fully recover. Bottom line is that it's an elaborate defense constructed around stopping KD, and I think the Lakers are doing a damn good job with it. They just have no answer for the Thunder D or Westbrook at this point.
This is where his lack of offensive versatility has hurt him, Artest is fighting through screens and when hes hit the Laker bigs are there to help, when this happens it forces him to try to create on his own and hasnt been as effective.

That help off pindowns and curls are to be expected, its not as if its anything new to playoff basketball. You gameplan to take those away.

iFYouSeekAmy
04-27-2010, 12:41 AM
I wonder if Lakers would get an advantage over the Thunder IF they had Ariza and not Artest. Only assuming if the playoff seeds played out like this.

tredigs
04-27-2010, 12:46 AM
Maybe today (even though I can count like 4 off the top of my head doing that in this playoff outing alone) but historically speaking hes not doing anything I havent seen every star do, aside from struggling to score yet still be in the series.



You fail to see the point Ive made, that they are dominating the swing role player position. You think those stats are bad, look at Artest.

And your still not getting the right picture from those stats, look at Hardens TS%, its at 66%. His per possession efficiency is impressive and has been the x-factor in their wins.

The team D has been impressive all year, but Durant struggling to such a degree is about as typical as it happening to Kobe. Had Kobe been his usual self this series wouldnt look so close.

Artest has struggled on offense, and he'll continue to struggle. Durant has had his number all year. But what he's done on defense is still invaluable. The combined 13ppg of those two (thabo/Harden) along with solid D from Thabo is not what I would call "dominating" what Artest is doing. They've been doing fine, but they're capable of much more, especially Thabo. You can't get too excited about a high ts% when the kid has taken 18 shots in the entire series. If anyone in this series has been an "X factor", I'd say it's Serge Ibaka and his shutdown D.

bdawks20
04-27-2010, 01:06 AM
No

Ragun
04-27-2010, 01:07 AM
I've heard so many groaning about Kobe missing shots, I agree, Kobe is struggling but so is Durant. They are both shooting under .40 percent from the field but people are more likely to blame Kobe for the Lakers lack of effort against the Thunder. If Kobe and Durant's ppg/fg% are essentially similar, would you say the Durant have a better supporting cast than Kobe?

to answer your thread title, the thunder supporting cast is obviously better THIS series.

soonabooma
04-27-2010, 01:14 AM
It's not a question of who has the better supporting cast....the question is, who's supporting cast is playing better, and the answer is as clearcut as it gets. Durant's boys are playing better than Kobe's. Forget about talent, forget about experience, OKC is straight up outhustling these guys, they want it more and they're working harder. That's why we're holding our own on the boards and getting to all those loose balls. And being younger and faster with fresh legs certainly doesn't hurt either. The Thunder are beating the Lakers in areas that they shouldn't be but they are becuz of that hustle factor. We've gotten better each game, while the Lakers have seemingly gotten worse. We played two good games in LA, especially game 2. And we handled our business at home, it was a rough start in game 3 but we got it together and then totally went to work in game 4. We have alot of momentum.

I'm not saying I expect us to actually win this series. All I know is....our boys have played their butts off and done everything in their power to send a message that OKC is not playing around, we're about business and we're gonna approach things that way. We might fall short against LA, but I'm definitely proud of my guys no matter what happens, and I'm looking forward to the future. We're just getting started.

abe_froman
04-27-2010, 01:19 AM
someday they will be,but today's not the day

njnets825
04-27-2010, 01:29 AM
definitely not. imagine durant having gasol and bynum to set screens for him. kobe would shoot like 30 shots a game if he was on the thunder

ldc62
04-27-2010, 01:38 AM
Hell no. Outside Westbrook vs Fisher, Lakers have a better supporting cast.

Chronz
04-27-2010, 12:06 PM
Artest has struggled on offense, and he'll continue to struggle. Durant has had his number all year. But what he's done on defense is still invaluable. The combined 13ppg of those two (thabo/Harden) along with solid D from Thabo is not what I would call "dominating" what Artest is doing. They've been doing fine, but they're capable of much more, especially Thabo. You can't get too excited about a high ts% when the kid has taken 18 shots in the entire series. If anyone in this series has been an "X factor", I'd say it's Serge Ibaka and his shutdown D.
Thats all well and good, my X-Factor choice is based on their play in the wins and losses. Ibaka has been more consistent and is vital, every player is but when Harden is shooting well he takes pressure off of Durant and all of sudden that off the ball play is more effective. I wouldnt doubt it if Durants best lineups came alongside Harden. Also my main point about Durant still stands, hes prolly going to get more credit than he deserves if the Lakers lose this series.

Also if you dont think a player whos contributing a PER of 4 in 151 minutes is getting dominated I cant help you but suffice it to say those guys have won their matchup by a significant margin obviously not as severe as the PG position but its still a key edge. Durant and Kobe have at the least neutralized eachother with their struggles. Then there are the BIGS spot, with Green sucking the Lakers have utterly dominated that matchup, its the one thing thats kept them in this series.

Tony_Starks
04-27-2010, 01:33 PM
Hell no they don't have a better cast its just that Lakers aren't really using their cast to their full advantage.

Shannon Brown should be defending Westbrook, period. Everything Fish does he can do coming off the bench, his game doesn't change. This is probably the biggest most glaring deal of it all because anyone with 2 eyes can see Fish can't handle Westbrook, too quick and too strong.

Ron Ron should be getting at least 5 post up clear outs on Durant. Doesn't matter if he scores or not it keeps Durant working on D and could get him in foul trouble because he's not strong enough.

If they're going to switch Durant to Kobe, Ron needs to post up whoever was defending Kobe to take advantage of the mismatch.

iggypop123
04-27-2010, 01:40 PM
I wonder if Lakers would get an advantage over the Thunder IF they had Ariza and not Artest. Only assuming if the playoff seeds played out like this.

if ariza was with the lakers and playing with a bad thumb he would be shooting 12% from 3 so no.

dstruong
04-27-2010, 02:42 PM
the lakers should of been closing out tonight, instead they are fighting for their lives. lose game 5, and you lose the series laker fans.

G-Funk
04-27-2010, 05:30 PM
no they are just playing harder

Hawkeye15
04-27-2010, 05:35 PM
no way. The Lakers depth is pathetic, but Bynum-Gasol-Artest-Odom is way better than Westbrook-Green-Harden-whomever else you want to throw in there.
The Lakers star is in pain, ineffective, and their PG can't stay in front of Westbrook at all. On top of that, the Thunder's star is healthy, motivated, and their team appears hungrier. But no, the Lakers roster is still more talented up and down than the Thunders.

Hawkeye15
04-27-2010, 05:36 PM
I wonder if Lakers would get an advantage over the Thunder IF they had Ariza and not Artest. Only assuming if the playoff seeds played out like this.

simply put, yes. Ariza was as good a defender, a better rebounder, and a better offensive player last year than Artest is this year.