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View Full Version : Does LeBron Have Extra Motivation To Win The Title This Year Because Of Free Agency?



NetsPaint
04-25-2010, 04:18 PM
Many of us, including myself, think LeBron might not leave Cleveland until he gives them the championship. I don't want to say that he's like, "Ok I better hurry up and play more beastly than ever", but I imagine if he really wants to explore his options he feels he must win this year.

Also, I didn't really want to make this thread too redundant (sorry), so I'll ask this:

I heard LeBron say when he was growing up he would have liked to play for every team in the NBA.Now even though he laughed and knows that's not gonna unless he plays for the next few decades, do you think something relevant could happen if he brings the relief of winning a championship in Cleveland? Could you picture him signing three year deals with teams for the rest of his career?Nets, Knicks, Bulls, Lakers?

Raph12
04-25-2010, 05:09 PM
He has extra motivation now because he has a much stronger cast surrounding him and no excuse in why they shouldn't win it all. If they lose to the Magic in the ECFs again or worse (to the Celts in the Semis or Bulls in the 1st), than it will hurt his legacy.

D Roses Bulls
04-25-2010, 05:12 PM
motivation? yes! will to do it? yes! will he do it? NO!

ElMarroAfamado
04-25-2010, 05:15 PM
motivation? yes! will to do it? yes! will he do it? NO!

haha i have to agree

Geargo Wallace
04-25-2010, 05:25 PM
No. He's also got 2 years left of prime. He has no dedication to the game. He's too interested in making money and making movies.

I jokes. I jokes.

TheKing23
04-25-2010, 05:26 PM
motivation? yes! will to do it? yes! will he do it? NO!

Westbrook > Rose

D Roses Bulls
04-25-2010, 05:32 PM
Westbrook > Rose

lmfao...... this guy, this guy.

wade>lebron

TheKing23
04-25-2010, 05:34 PM
lmfao...... this guy, this guy.

wade>lebron

The difference is mine's a fact.

D Roses Bulls
04-25-2010, 05:36 PM
The difference is mine's a fact.

:facepalm: like i said: this guy, this guy

NetsPaint
04-25-2010, 05:37 PM
You guys!

NYK_kidd77
04-25-2010, 05:39 PM
I sure hope his motivation is to win so he can leave.

JordansBulls
04-25-2010, 06:40 PM
The difference is mine's a fact.

False.

Wade shows up in the finals, Lebron does not.

Rose was an allstar, Westbrook was not.

IRUAM #21
04-25-2010, 06:44 PM
Rofl.

Ragun
04-25-2010, 06:46 PM
False.

Wade shows up in the finals, Lebron does not.

Rose was an allstar, Westbrook was not.

:facepalm:

how about you compare wade's 2006 heat team to lebrons 05 cavs team?

and westbrook could of been an all-star if he was in the east. rose in the west? nah.

im not saying westbrook is better than rose but you cant really compare the two my all-star appearances. billups and nash have more all-star game appearances than deron williams. does that mean they are better than deron? no.

JordansBulls
04-25-2010, 06:52 PM
:facepalm:

how about you compare wade's 2006 heat team to lebrons 05 cavs team?

and westbrook could of been an all-star if he was in the east. rose in the west? nah.

im not saying westbrook is better than rose but you cant really compare the two my all-star appearances. billups and nash have more all-star game appearances than deron williams. does that mean they are better than deron? no.

Mavs beat the Spurs, the same team that beat the Cavs.

Wade's next top scorer averaged 14 ppg in the finals.

Kidd made the allstar team in the west and he didn't even average double figures in any stat.

IRUAM #21
04-25-2010, 06:56 PM
lawl

D Roses Bulls
04-25-2010, 07:03 PM
Mavs beat the Spurs, the same team that beat the Cavs.

Wade's next top scorer averaged 14 ppg in the finals.

Kidd made the allstar team in the west and he didn't even average double figures in any stat.

exactly and wade put the team on his shoulders and did it by himself. you think the cavs have a bunch of old heads? nothing compared to what miami had. shaq wasnt shaq back then either. old gary peyton, old alonzo mourning, old antoine walker, and a jason williams who is playing better this year then he did in 06. lebron may have an MVP award, but wade had a finals MVP

Geargo Wallace
04-25-2010, 07:08 PM
LeBron is better than Wade. Can we at least agree to that?

JordansBulls
04-25-2010, 07:10 PM
LeBron is better than Wade. Can we at least agree to that?

Not until he shows us in the finals.

Geargo Wallace
04-25-2010, 07:12 PM
Not until he shows us in the finals.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hfYJsQAhl0

LEBRON_KING_23
04-25-2010, 07:12 PM
People are comparing WADE to LEBRON?!?!? HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

_KB24_
04-25-2010, 07:15 PM
He needs to win because he has no excuses any more. How much more do we need to stack his team to atleast make it to the Finals? Too bad the Magic will have a say in that.

Lebron James, the first superstar to fail to make the Finals after having the best record for two consecutive years.

Geargo Wallace
04-25-2010, 07:19 PM
Not until he shows us in the finals.

Pierce>LeBron

Parker or Billups>Stockton

JordansBulls
04-25-2010, 07:20 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hfYJsQAhl0

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/playoffs2008/columns/story?columnist=hollinger_john&page=FinalsPerformances-Worst

JordansBulls
04-25-2010, 07:21 PM
Pierce>LeBron

Parker or Billups>Stockton

Doesn't apply. We are comparing guys who were hands down the best players on thier team.

Garnett for the season was greater than Pierce

Wallace was greater than Billups.

Wade was the best on his team in 2006 as was Lebron in 2007 on his team.

Most agree Wade has been better his career.

http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showthread.php?t=456804&page=18&highlight=Lebron+Wade

tjlipford
04-25-2010, 07:31 PM
Man all y'all say is lebron hasn't won a ring in every conversation. We are only in the first round of the playoffs. I think real soon people won't be able to make that comment anymore.

thescore53
04-25-2010, 07:48 PM
wth honestly dont think he'll ever leave clevland

D Roses Bulls
04-25-2010, 07:50 PM
Man all y'all say is lebron hasn't won a ring in every conversation. We are only in the first round of the playoffs. I think real soon people won't be able to make that comment anymore.

yea they will cause the cavs arn't getting past the magic.

thescore53
04-25-2010, 07:53 PM
this whole thing is insane, just cause you want him on your team doesnt mean you have to be stupid,

signing 3 year contracts from here on out with different teams is purely idiotic, why would he move so much damn, your either a 12 year old or just stupid,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hfYJsQAhl0

thescore53
04-25-2010, 07:55 PM
seriously are you guys hearing this, this is pure stupidity,

D Roses Bulls
04-25-2010, 07:55 PM
this whole thing is insane, just cause you want him on your team doesnt mean you have to be stupid,

signing 3 year contracts from here on out with different teams is purely idiotic, why would he move so much damn, your either a 12 year old or just stupid,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hfYJsQAhl0

we already have two references of that in this thread. wow this should get interesting quick

D Roses Bulls
04-25-2010, 07:57 PM
Many of us, including myself, think LeBron might not leave Cleveland until he gives them the championship. I don't want to say that he's like, "Ok I better hurry up and play more beastly than ever", but I imagine if he really wants to explore his options he feels he must win this year.

Also, I didn't really want to make this thread too redundant (sorry), so I'll ask this:

I heard LeBron say when he was growing up he would have liked to play for every team in the NBA.Now even though he laughed and knows that's not gonna unless he plays for the next few decades, do you think something relevant could happen if he brings the relief of winning a championship in Cleveland? Could you picture him signing three year deals with teams for the rest of his career?Nets, Knicks, Bulls, Lakers?

were you smoking a blunt when you came up with this?

thescore53
04-25-2010, 07:57 PM
He needs to win because he has no excuses any more. How much more do we need to stack his team to atleast make it to the Finals? Too bad the Magic will have a say in that.

Lebron James, the first superstar to fail to make the Finals after having the best record for two consecutive years.

this isnt a fact yet

JordansBulls
04-25-2010, 08:00 PM
He needs to win because he has no excuses any more. How much more do we need to stack his team to atleast make it to the Finals? Too bad the Magic will have a say in that.

Lebron James, the first superstar to fail to make the Finals after having the best record for two consecutive years.

Actually if he doesn't win the title, it will be the first time in NBA History a player and team had the best record in the NBA two years in a row and failed to even get 1 ring.

jetsfan28
04-25-2010, 08:02 PM
False.

Wade shows up in the finals, Lebron does not.

Rose was an allstar, Westbrook was not.

Are you serious? Are you seriously going to argue that? Are you comparing Wade's 1 finals appearance with a loaded team where the refs gifted him the series to LeBron's 1 finals appearance with a horrible team against the best defensive team in the league with a bunch of guys who, despite improving, can't even start on the same team anymore?

D Roses Bulls
04-25-2010, 08:08 PM
Are you serious? Are you seriously going to argue that? Are you comparing Wade's 1 finals appearance with a loaded team where the refs gifted him the series to LeBron's 1 finals appearance with a horrible team against the best defensive team in the league with a bunch of guys who, despite improving, can't even start on the same team anymore?

wades team looked good on paper, but again. you had an older shaq, older walker, very old peyton, and the list continues to go on from there. second, like MJbulls said, the second leading scorer on that team was 14 points a game. if it was such a stacked team the scoring would of been more balanced. third, i have the games on tape and the refs didnt gift wrap anything for wade. wade played his *** off. the refs dont ever treat wade like they do with lebron. lebrons team was weak, but what about last year? good team and he didnt even make the finals. whats going to be the excuse if he doesnt make it and win it this year?

tredigs
04-25-2010, 08:10 PM
He needs to win because he has no excuses any more. How much more do we need to stack his team to atleast make it to the Finals? Too bad the Magic will have a say in that.

Lebron James, the first superstar to fail to make the Finals after having the best record for two consecutive years.

Lmao at this comment coming from a die-hard Kobe groupie. The player who has not made it anywhere near the finals without absolutely stellar casts, or more often as the 2nd best player on the team. There's a very short list of players in NBA history that could have taken these Cavs team as far as he has already. Complete hater.

I don't even like the Cavs, but I truly hope Lebron wins a ring this year just to put people like you in their place.

NYKnicks4511
04-25-2010, 08:11 PM
False.

Wade shows up in the finals, Lebron does not.

Rose was an allstar, Westbrook was not.

So the basis of how good a player is is whether or not he's an All-Star? :facepalm:
How many elite point guards are there in the East?
Now how many elite point guards are there in the West?

West > East. A fan vote means nothing, Jason Kidd got in - at this point is he better than Westbrook? Hell no.

From a Knick fan's perspective, if I could choose between picking D-Rose and Russell Westbrook I would give the nod to Westbrook pretty handily. Both equally athletic, Westbrook is more explosive than Rose, plays better defense, and is getting better at passing as well.

thescore53
04-25-2010, 08:18 PM
were you smoking a blunt when you came up with this?

yea insane isnt it :facepalm:

JordansBulls
04-25-2010, 08:19 PM
So the basis of how good a player is is whether or not he's an All-Star? :facepalm:
How many elite point guards are there in the East?
Now how many elite point guards are there in the West?

West > East. A fan vote means nothing, Jason Kidd got in - at this point is he better than Westbrook? Hell no.

From a Knick fan's perspective, if I could choose between picking D-Rose and Russell Westbrook I would give the nod to Westbrook pretty handily. Both equally athletic, Westbrook is more explosive than Rose, plays better defense, and is getting better at passing as well.

Except Westbrook on the Bulls instead of Rose we win less than 25 games and we are getting John Wall in the draft.

D Roses Bulls
04-25-2010, 08:21 PM
So the basis of how good a player is is whether or not he's an All-Star? :facepalm:
How many elite point guards are there in the East?
Now how many elite point guards are there in the West?

West > East. A fan vote means nothing, Jason Kidd got in - at this point is he better than Westbrook? Hell no.

From a Knick fan's perspective, if I could choose between picking D-Rose and Russell Westbrook I would give the nod to Westbrook pretty handily. Both equally athletic, Westbrook is more explosive than Rose, plays better defense, and is getting better at passing as well.

stern put kidd into the game. the coaches picked the reserves and so they are the ones who picked rose. so you dont trust the coaches opinions?

east point guards: rose,rondo,harris,jennings,nelson. all those guys are very good.westbrook has durrant to back him up. lets put westbrook on the bulls with no durrant and see if the bulls are even in the playoffs right now.

D Roses Bulls
04-25-2010, 08:23 PM
yea insane isnt it :facepalm:

yea when i saw you going on, i decided to reread the bottom and when i saw what he said, i was just like who in their right mind could come up with that.

tredigs
04-25-2010, 08:23 PM
Except Westbrook on the Bulls instead of Rose we win less than 25 games and we are getting John Wall in the draft.

It's funny that a mod is this biased and/or clueless. The two are VERY comparable players, and there's a very legitimate argument that Westbrook is at least as good, if not better than Rose.

JordansBulls
04-25-2010, 08:25 PM
It's funny that a mod is this biased and/or clueless. The two are VERY comparable players, and there's a very legitimate argument that Westbrook is at least as good, if not better than Rose.

Are you kidding me? Rose carried his team to the playoffs the past 2 years. Bulls went from 33 wins to 41 wins.

With Durant/Westbrook the Thunder/Sonics went from 31 wins the year before Durant to 20 wins to 23 wins and now 50 wins because now they have a good coach.

Saying Westbrook is as good as Rose is like saying Durant is as good as Lebron right now.

D Roses Bulls
04-25-2010, 08:27 PM
Are you kidding me? Rose carried his team to the playoffs the past 2 years. Bulls went from 33 wins to 41 wins.

With Durant/Westbrook the Thunder/Sonics went from 31 wins the year before Durant to 20 wins to 23 wins and now 50 wins because now they have a good coach.

Saying Westbrook is as good as Rose is like saying Durant is as good as Lebron right now.

also drafted harden and durrant is maturing as well. the bulls lost salmons and gordon and rose still carried them to the playoffs

thescore53
04-25-2010, 08:29 PM
yea when i saw you going on, i decided to reread the bottom and when i saw what he said, i was just like who in their right mind could come up with that.

the stupidity of that made me ram my head through the window :bang:

thescore53
04-25-2010, 08:30 PM
why this thread has 4 pages , i have no clue

D Roses Bulls
04-25-2010, 08:31 PM
the stupidity of that made me ram my head through the window :bang:

lmao i can tell man. thats why i keep saying they should have a psd for kids and keep this forum for the grown ups.

BlazingInferno
04-25-2010, 08:32 PM
The difference is mine's a fact.

Scalabrine>Bosh

tredigs
04-25-2010, 08:49 PM
Are you kidding me? Rose carried his team to the playoffs the past 2 years. Bulls went from 33 wins to 41 wins.

With Durant/Westbrook the Thunder/Sonics went from 31 wins the year before Durant to 20 wins to 23 wins and now 50 wins because now they have a good coach.

Saying Westbrook is as good as Rose is like saying Durant is as good as Lebron right now.

C'mon man, you're talking about the Bulls in an eastern conference where 39 win teams are making the playoffs in Rose's rookie season. It is complete garbage. They aren't sniffing the playoffs if they're in the west with the Thunder. Not to mention, the Thunder were one of the most inexperienced teams ever assembled last season and were not quite ready to compete with the depth of the western conference.

Westbrook has improved significantly in the last 6 months, and is now just as potent a weapon as Derrick Rose is. Just look at what he's doing to LA in the playoffs right now (and it's not just Fisher on him, Kobe's been taking turns as well), or his stats in comparison to Rose throughout the season. He's a better distributor than Rose, a better rebounder for a guard, and he's better defensively. Rose is a better shooter, although Westbrook's beginning to improve there over the last few months as well. They're equal athletes, and both have a heaping pile of potential.

The comparison is very much debatable, and it will sway in Westbrook's favor if the Thunder can somehow manage to oust the Lakers while Westbrook is playing at the level that he is. Until then, it's a moot argument.

JordansBulls
04-25-2010, 08:51 PM
C'mon man, you're talking about the Bulls in an eastern conference where 39 win teams are making the playoffs in Rose's rookie season. It is complete garbage. They aren't sniffing the playoffs if they're in the west with the Thunder. Not to mention, the Thunder were one of the most inexperienced teams ever assembled last season and were not quite ready to compete with the depth of the western conference.

Westbrook has improved significantly in the last 6 months, and is now just as potent a weapon as Derrick Rose is. Just look at what he's doing to LA in the playoffs right now (and it's not just Fisher on him, Kobe's been taking turns as well), or his stats in comparison to Rose throughout the season. He's a better distributor than Rose, a better rebounder for a guard, and he's better defensively. Rose is a better shooter, although Westbrook's beginning to improve there over the last few months as well. They're equal athletes, and both have a heaping pile of potential.

The comparison is very much debatable, and it will sway in Westbrook's favor if the Thunder can somehow manage to oust the Lakers while Westbrook is playing at the level that he is.
I can understand where you are coming from, however the Thunder's coach didn't get COY for no reason. Also Westbrook has a player better than him on the team. If you switch Deng with Durant, the Bulls win 55-60 games this year while the Thunder win 30-35 games.

D Roses Bulls
04-25-2010, 08:53 PM
I can understand where you are coming from, however the Thunder's coach didn't get COY for no reason. Also Westbrook has a player better than him on the team. If you switch Deng with Durant, the Bulls win 55-60 games this year while the Thunder win 30-35 games.

get him JB

Ethix11
04-25-2010, 08:53 PM
If LeBron doesnt win the ring this year with the cast that hes basically been used to playing with for his entire career, then the Wade vs James debate is officially over. I dont want to hear about potential, just accomplishments. James has had his whole career to mesh with his cast and they do a pretty good job goofing off together so they should be as good as ever to go all the way whereas Wade has had to deal with injuries that led to an implosion of the roster essentially demineralizing it into nothing more than a salary cap saving band of misfits for two years now for the sole purpose of revamping it in 2010.

Phxtoday
04-25-2010, 09:02 PM
this is such a stupid question to ask.. he wants to win a championship, period. it has nothing to do with free agency. /thread.

tredigs
04-25-2010, 09:17 PM
I can understand where you are coming from, however the Thunder's coach didn't get COY for no reason. Also Westbrook has a player better than him on the team. If you switch Deng with Durant, the Bulls win 55-60 games this year while the Thunder win 30-35 games.

Westbrook didn't do what he did this year because Brooks won COY [which is a precarious award anyway; it's basically given to the team that had the most significant turnaround, which you could very easily argue was mainly due to the natural progression/maturation of Westbrook and KD].

And the switching teams argument doesn't work in many instances, and definitely not here for many reasons. Number one being that KD is one of the best players in the league, and if he had a player like Noah in the post to go along with solid role players, they would be among the best in the league. If you trade Noah for Kristic, the Thunder are a 60 win team and the Bulls are a 30-35 win team. See how that works?

The fact that KD is better than Westbrook does not matter, he's better than Rose as well. Rose making the all star team in the east also means nothing. He's a more popular player at this point. He was the #1 pick and plays for a team that has one of the largest markets in America. Westbrook plays for the smallest market in America and is overshadowed by its brightest young superstar. You only have to look as far as the fact that Allen Iverson was voted into the Eastern Conference all stars to know it doesn't mean a thing.

We'll see how they finish out this playoff series. Unfortunately, D. Rose only has one game left to make his case.

JordansBulls
04-25-2010, 09:22 PM
Westbrook didn't do what he did this year because Brooks won COY [which is a precarious award anyway; it's basically given to the team that had the most significant turnaround, which you could very easily argue was mainly due to the natural progression/maturation of Westbrook and KD].

And the switching teams argument doesn't work in many instances, and definitely not here for many reasons. Number one being that KD is one of the best players in the league, and if he had a player like Noah in the post to go along with solid role players, they would be among the best in the league. If you trade Noah for Kristic, the Thunder are a 60 win team and the Bulls are a 30-35 win team. See how that works?

The fact that KD is better than Westbrook does not matter, he's better than Rose as well. Rose making the all star team in the east also means nothing. He's a more popular player at this point. He was the #1 pick and plays for a team that has one of the largest markets in America. Westbrook plays for the smallest market in America and is overshadowed by its brightest young superstar. You only have to look as far as the fact that Allen Iverson was voted into the Eastern Conference all stars to know it doesn't mean a thing.

We'll see how they finish out this playoff series. Unfortunately, D. Rose only has one game left to make his case.

That's crap. If Westbrook isn't even the best player on his team, then he sure as hell isn't going to lead the Bulls anywhere. Also the Thunder improved because they got the COY on that team. You switch Brooks with VDN and the Thunder win less than 35 games as well and the Bulls win close to 50 games.

Also, if you want to use that logic, then that means that Dwight is better than Lebron as he beat Lebron when Lebron had the superior team and Lebron had the best record in the league.

jetsfan28
04-25-2010, 09:29 PM
That's crap. If Westbrook isn't even the best player on his team, then he sure as hell isn't going to lead the Bulls anywhere. Also the Thunder improved because they got the COY on that team. You switch Brooks with VDN and the Thunder win less than 35 games as well and the Bulls win close to 50 games.

Also, if you want to use that logic, then that means that Dwight is better than Lebron as he beat Lebron when Lebron had the superior team and Lebron had the best record in the league.

You're right, Westbrook playing with one of the best players in the league made him worse. In fact, if Kobe played for the Cavs this year, it would mean he wouldn't have the ability to carry the Bulls anywhere, since he wouldn't be the best player on his team.

JordansBulls
04-25-2010, 09:32 PM
You're right, Westbrook playing with one of the best players in the league made him worse. In fact, if Kobe played for the Cavs this year, it would mean he wouldn't have the ability to carry the Bulls anywhere, since he wouldn't be the best player on his team.

Kobe didn't lose with HCA and is the champion. So I don't see how you can say he wouldn't be the best on his team.

tredigs
04-25-2010, 09:36 PM
That's crap. If Westbrook isn't even the best player on his team, then he sure as hell isn't going to lead the Bulls anywhere. Also the Thunder improved because they got the COY on that team. You switch Brooks with VDN and the Thunder win less than 35 games as well and the Bulls win close to 50 games.

Also, if you want to use that logic, then that means that Dwight is better than Lebron as he beat Lebron when Lebron had the superior team and Lebron had the best record in the league.

Hahah Jesus, this post is filled to the brim with false assumptions and bias.

How does the fact that Westbrook isn't the best player on his team have anything to do with his ability to lead another team to the playoffs? The Bulls are finishing this season with a losing record in the East [counting playoffs. .500 if you don't], it's not exactly a huge accomplishment what Rose did there. You have absolutely no objective way to say/prove that the Bulls would've been better or worse if the two swapped teams. On the other hand, you can argue that Westbrook's superior defense and distribution skills make him a more valuable player to the Thunder than Rose would. He would cheapen one of the best team defenses in the league and take shots away from one of the most efficient scorers the league has to offer.

And you also just said that the Magic have a better cast than the Cavs last season? ...Really? Jameer Nelson/Turk/Rashard Lewis > '08 Cavs roster. You are digging yourself a hole. I'm done arguing with you for now, we can revisit this after the Bulls are ousted from the playoffs. I feel like your rationale ability is a little off right now, not worth arguing with you. The "put player x on team A and they're 20x better!" arguments can only be used for so long.

D Roses Bulls
04-25-2010, 10:00 PM
i think you guys are letting your hatred for rose blind you. honestly you guys cant say westbrook is better then rose with a strait face.

JordansBulls
04-25-2010, 10:05 PM
Hahah Jesus, this post is filled to the brim with false assumptions and bias.

How does the fact that Westbrook isn't the best player on his team have anything to do with his ability to lead another team to the playoffs? The Bulls are finishing this season with a losing record in the East [counting playoffs. .500 if you don't], it's not exactly a huge accomplishment what Rose did there. You have absolutely no objective way to say/prove that the Bulls would've been better or worse if the two swapped teams. On the other hand, you can argue that Westbrook's superior defense and distribution skills make him a more valuable player to the Thunder than Rose would. He would cheapen one of the best team defenses in the league and take shots away from one of the most efficient scorers the league has to offer.

And you also just said that the Magic have a better cast than the Cavs last season? ...Really? Jameer Nelson/Turk/Rashard Lewis > '08 Cavs roster. You are digging yourself a hole. I'm done arguing with you for now, we can revisit this after the Bulls are ousted from the playoffs. I feel like your rationale ability is a little off right now, not worth arguing with you. The "put player x on team A and they're 20x better!" arguments can only be used for so long.

Regarding Rose vs Westbrook, well if Rose had a guy who averaged 30 ppg on the team then he would be considered a great distributor as well and a great defender as he wouldn't have to focus on trying do do everything for the team as he currently does.


The Magic had the worst backcourt in NBA History to make the NBA Finals in Rafer and Lee.


http://proxy.espn.go.com/chat/chatESPN?event_id=26749



Josh (Los Angeles, CA): The Cavs didn?t match up well with Orlando, now all of a sudden Big Z (PER 18.03), Mo (17.25) and Delonte (14.16) aren't a good supporting cast and Rashard (16.83), Hedo (14.82), and Pietrus (11.69) are studs?


http://a.espncdn.com/i/sn2.gif Chad Ford: It's the style of play. The way the Magic spread the floor was a challenge for guys like Ben Wallace and Z to guard. When Varejao got in foul trouble, they struggled to keep up.





Source: ESPN (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?page=OffseasonPredictions09-EastChamps)





Cleveland Cavaliers (32 votes)

This thing is Cleveland's to lose, says our panel -- or 60.4 percent of our panel, anyway.

It's no surprise to see so many votes for a team that has the reigning MVP and won 66 games last season. On the other hand, the Cavs had the same points in their favor in May, and were the heavy favorites to win the East at that time, too. But Orlando took care of Cleveland thanks to some amazing shooting and the dominance of Dwight Howard, and the Cavs were left licking their wounds.



For those saying the Cavs aren't suppose to win, then answer this?

Source: ESPN (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/playoffs/2009/columns/story?columnist=hollinger_john&page=PERDiem-090512)



1. Cleveland (+9.12)
Welcome to the Cleveland Invitational, ladies and gentlemen. Yes, the Pistons had given up and the Hawks had injuries, but the fact is the Cavs have won eight straight playoff games by double figures. In this case it's a continuation of the Cavs' strong finish to the season, and it doesn't appear either Boston or Orlando has the goods to make them sweat much in a conference finals.

Cleveland also has home-court advantage going for it in the final two rounds, so at this point the Cavs have to be considered a heavy favorite to win the championship. They're playing the best basketball, have the best draw, have home-court and have the best player. They still have to play the games, of course, but the skids have already been greased. While the likes of Denver or L.A. could give them a tough fight in the Finals, at this point it appears that the only team that can beat Cleveland is Cleveland.


Looks like the Cavs were heavy favorites.


So they played a team that gave up in the Pistons and one who was injured in Atlanta and now it is being said that neither Boston or Orlando will make them sweat. So who the hell is supposed to win it all if it isn't Cleveland?


Dirk gets critisizm for losing with a team that won over 65+ games and didn't win the title does he not?


http://s120.photobucket.com/albums/o165/JordansBulls/th_CavsvsMagicSeries.jpg

http://s120.photobucket.com/albums/o165/JordansBulls/CavsvsMagic2009Playoffs.jpg

http://espn.go.com/nba/playoffs/2009/matchup/_/teams/magic-cavaliers



Source: Yahoosports (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/blog/ball_dont_lie/post/The-10-best-teams-of-the-decade-never-to-win-a-c;_ylt=Ai8j0I4kfnCFSrGgLh3xx7q8vLYF?urn=nba,184569 )



1. Cleveland Cavaliers, 2008-09

I sort of like this also-ran, because it speaks to how we've grown as a sport-regarding culture over the years. These Cleveland Cavaliers ran up 66-wins, an almost-Bulls-like 8.9-point differential (way better than any team listed above), and had the greatest player in the game (LeBron James(notes)) at their disposal. And yet, when the team lost to the Orlando Magic in the Eastern Conference finals last spring, people seemed ready to smartly admit that the Cavs, for all their horses, just didn't have the horses to run with the Magic.

Nobody was labeled a choker, nobody was fired, and though the team traded for one big (hopeful) problem-solver in the offseason in Shaquille O'Neal, nobody seemed to overreact and make deals for the sake of making deals. Knowing that the team will have the best player in the game, at only age 24, around for at least the next season helps too; but you have to love the lack of hand-wringing. Still, the meek ending doesn't hide the fact that this was an otherwise dominant team that won 74 of its first 90 games before falling to the Magic in six.



In fact only 2 teams that have won 65+ games have not won the title and it was the 2007 Mavs and 1973 Celtics and now the 2009 Cavs.

These other teams all won the title.
2009 Lakers
2008 Celtics
2000 Lakers
1997 Bulls
1996 Bulls
1992 Bulls
1987 Lakers
1986 Celtics
1983 Sixers
1972 Lakers
1971 Bucks
1967 Sixers

_KB24_
04-25-2010, 10:07 PM
C'mon man, you're talking about the Bulls in an eastern conference where 39 win teams are making the playoffs in Rose's rookie season. It is complete garbage. They aren't sniffing the playoffs if they're in the west with the Thunder. Not to mention, the Thunder were one of the most inexperienced teams ever assembled last season and were not quite ready to compete with the depth of the western conference.

Westbrook has improved significantly in the last 6 months, and is now just as potent a weapon as Derrick Rose is. Just look at what he's doing to LA in the playoffs right now (and it's not just Fisher on him, Kobe's been taking turns as well), or his stats in comparison to Rose throughout the season. He's a better distributor than Rose, a better rebounder for a guard, and he's better defensively. Rose is a better shooter, although Westbrook's beginning to improve there over the last few months as well. They're equal athletes, and both have a heaping pile of potential.

The comparison is very much debatable, and it will sway in Westbrook's favor if the Thunder can somehow manage to oust the Lakers while Westbrook is playing at the level that he is. Until then, it's a moot argument.


Lmao at this comment coming from a die-hard Kobe groupie. The player who has not made it anywhere near the finals without absolutely stellar casts, or more often as the 2nd best player on the team. There's a very short list of players in NBA history that could have taken these Cavs team as far as he has already. Complete hater.

I don't even like the Cavs, but I truly hope Lebron wins a ring this year just to put people like you in their place.

Double standards missy? You put Lebron's team he took to the Finals in the West and no way in hell he would make the PLAYOFFS, while Kobe's 06 Lakers would be easily a Top 4 seed in the East. Your just the blatant Kobe hater. Durant better than Kobe? :laugh2:

And don't even compare Westbrook to Rose. Rose only had one of the best individual rookie playoff debuts in NBA history against the defending world champs and led a COMPLETE turnaround to his team. Westbrook isn't even the best player on his team, and his TEAM actually got worse in his first season, not to mention them starting off like what 1-29 this season? They're coaching is a big reason for their success and Durant's presence. We all know how COY material Vinny Del Negro is...... :facepalm:

tredigs
04-25-2010, 10:08 PM
i think you guys are letting your hatred for rose blind you. honestly you guys cant say westbrook is better then rose with a strait face.

I like Rose, and I never necessarily said Westbrook was better, but there's a very legitimate argument that he's equally good. I won't expect someone with the screen name "D Roses Bulls" to fully appreciate that, but it's a fact.

Have you even been watching the Lakers/Thunder series? He is destroying out there. Been the best player in the series so far. That's saying A LOT when you have KD, Kobe and Pau out there playing with everything on the line.

thescore53
04-25-2010, 10:09 PM
damn is raping

jetsfan28
04-25-2010, 10:13 PM
Kobe didn't lose with HCA and is the champion. So I don't see how you can say he wouldn't be the best on his team.

Neither did LeBron. The Cleveland Cavaliers did. You do realize basketball is played by teams, right? Has been ever since Dr. Naismith invented it.

tredigs
04-25-2010, 10:16 PM
Double standards missy? You put Lebron's team he took to the Finals in the West and no way in hell he would make the PLAYOFFS, while Kobe's 06 Lakers would be easily a Top 4 seed in the East. Your just the blatant Kobe hater. Durant better than Kobe? :laugh2:

And don't even compare Westbrook to Rose. Rose only had one of the best individual rookie playoff debuts in NBA history against the defending world champs and led a COMPLETE turnaround to his team. Westbrook isn't even the best player on his team, and his TEAM actually got worse in his first season, not to mention them starting off like what 1-29 this season? They're coaching is a big reason for their success and Durant's presence. We all know how COY material Vinny Del Negro is...... :facepalm:

Lol at "Missy". Not even going to dignify your dumb *** post with a response. Rather, I'll just continue to watch as Westbrook outplays Kobe in their playoff series, while Lebron outplays Rose in his playoff series. If the Lakers manage to put it together and scrape by the Thunder and possibly reach the finals, then you'll be able to see Lebron do the same.

JordansBulls
04-25-2010, 10:19 PM
Neither did LeBron. The Cleveland Cavaliers did. You do realize basketball is played by teams, right? Has been ever since Dr. Naismith invented it.

Nope, it is a double standard. If he led them to the best record and to be the best team, then he should get the blame for failing them against an inferior opponent and not getting his teammates involved by holding the ball too much.

If you disagree, then go watch the series against Orlando especially game 1 at the 2:30 -3:30 mark of the 4th. Doug Collins mentions that Lebron has the ball every possession and runs the clock down and then dishes.


The fact is, when Lebron goes off against Bad teams the Cavs win. When Lebron goes off against Good Teams they usually lose.

jetsfan28
04-25-2010, 10:20 PM
Nope, it is a double standard. If he led them to the best record and to be the best team, then he should get the blame for failing them against an inferior opponent and not getting his teammates involved by holding the ball too much.

If you disagree, then go watch the series against Orlando especially game 1 at the 2:30 -3:30 mark of the 4th. Doug Collins mentions that Lebron has the ball every possession and runs the clock down and then dishes.


The fact is, when Lebron goes off against Bad teams the Cavs win. When Lebron goes off against Good Teams they usually lose.

OK, so I guess you would take Ammo over LeBron too? He's a champion, right?


LeBron did as much as he possibly could with inferior talent around him. He has constantly had inferior talent around him until this year. Any argument to the contrary is simply incorrect. Every statistical measure backs it up, the players he's had around him are inferior to the ones he plays against.

JordansBulls
04-25-2010, 10:22 PM
OK, so I guess you would take Ammo over LeBron too? He's a champion, right?

Who is AMMO?

And no, there are very few guys I would take over Lebron. That is not the question here. Someone mentioned that Lebron would be top 5 all time. I just can't justify something like that until he actually proves it and actually wins. Right now, he is in the same boat with Dirk Nowitzki. A guy who puts up great numbers, leads in PER and Win Shares, but loses with the top record in the league and with the higher seed.

jetsfan28
04-25-2010, 10:26 PM
Who is AMMO?

And no, there are very few guys I would take over Lebron. That is not the question here. Someone mentioned that Lebron would be top 5 all time. I just can't justify something like that until he actually proves it and actually wins. Right now, he is in the same boat with Dirk Nowitzki. A guy who puts up great numbers, leads in PER and Win Shares, but loses with the top record in the league and with the higher seed.

Adam Morrison. A champion.


And that is simply an awful argument. There's no other way to put it. 1 player cannot beat other teams in a 7 game series. The playoffs are completely different from the regular season, you have 7 games to gameplan around stopping a guy. There's a reason Kobe never won without Shaq until he got Gasol. There's a reason Robinson didn't win until he got Duncan. They didn't become better players then, they were the same players on better teams. Individuals don't win championships, teams do.




Will LeBron be a better player if he wins a championship? Will he magically be better at the game of basketball in mid-June than he is now? No, that's completely ridiculous. 2 months from now, whether or not LeBron wins a championship, he will be the exact same player, so it makes no sense to judge him on that.

JordansBulls
04-25-2010, 10:29 PM
Adam Morrison. A champion.


And that is simply an awful argument. There's no other way to put it. 1 player cannot beat other teams in a 7 game series. The playoffs are completely different from the regular season, you have 7 games to gameplan around stopping a guy. There's a reason Kobe never won without Shaq until he got Gasol. There's a reason Robinson didn't win until he got Duncan. They didn't become better players then, they were the same players on better teams. Individuals don't win championships, teams do.




Will LeBron be a better player if he wins a championship? Will he magically be better at the game of basketball in mid-June than he is now? No, that's completely ridiculous. 2 months from now, whether or not LeBron wins a championship, he will be the exact same player, so it makes no sense to judge him on that.


Let's use logic here. Adam Morrison is a role player, I am talking about elite players guys who are stars in this league.

And yes if Lebron wins a championship in June it makes him a better player. You know why? Because it means that he played well in the finals and that he knows how to show up on the highest stage.

Example: Dirk in 2006. Great player during the season and playoffs, but the finals hit him hard. So his ranking went down a bit.

D Roses Bulls
04-25-2010, 10:30 PM
Double standards missy? You put Lebron's team he took to the Finals in the West and no way in hell he would make the PLAYOFFS, while Kobe's 06 Lakers would be easily a Top 4 seed in the East. Your just the blatant Kobe hater. Durant better than Kobe? :laugh2:

And don't even compare Westbrook to Rose. Rose only had one of the best individual rookie playoff debuts in NBA history against the defending world champs and led a COMPLETE turnaround to his team. Westbrook isn't even the best player on his team, and his TEAM actually got worse in his first season, not to mention them starting off like what 1-29 this season? They're coaching is a big reason for their success and Durant's presence. We all know how COY material Vinny Del Negro is...... :facepalm:

:clap:

jetsfan28
04-25-2010, 10:33 PM
Let's use logic here. Adam Morrison is a role player, I am talking about elite players guys who are stars in this league.

And yes if Lebron wins a championship in June it makes him a better player. You know why? Because it means that he played well in the finals and that he knows how to show up on the highest stage.

Example: Dirk in 2006. Great player during the season and playoffs, but the finals hit him hard. So his ranking went down a bit.

OK, let's use logic here. LeBron, in the finals, will have the exact same skillset, the exact same ability, as he does today. He will be the exact same person. He is not a choke artist, he has already proven he could be a clutch player (see Detroit in the conference finals, or Orlando's game winner last year), so he won't be proving anything in that regard. The only difference will be that he won't have played in the finals with Boobie Gibson, Zydrunas Illgalskus, Donyell Marshall, and Sasha Pavolvic starting. Again, you're calling him a WORSE PLAYER than Wade because he lost in the finals while playing with those guys instead of Jason Williams, Shaq, Udonis Haslem, and James Posey. You are saying that makes him worse at the game of basketball. That makes no sense at all.



And the hilarious part is, you're the one who defended Patrick Ewing as an elite player. A guy who actually DID have talent around him and still couldn't win a title. By your own standards one of those arguments makes no sense.

JordansBulls
04-25-2010, 10:41 PM
OK, let's use logic here. LeBron, in the finals, will have the exact same skillset, the exact same ability, as he does today. He will be the exact same person. He is not a choke artist, he has already proven he could be a clutch player (see Detroit in the conference finals, or Orlando's game winner last year), so he won't be proving anything in that regard. The only difference will be that he won't have played in the finals with Boobie Gibson, Zydrunas Illgalskus, Donyell Marshall, and Sasha Pavolvic starting. Again, you're calling him a WORSE PLAYER than Wade because he lost in the finals while playing with those guys instead of Jason Williams, Shaq, Udonis Haslem, and James Posey. You are saying that makes him worse at the game of basketball. That makes no sense at all.



And the hilarious part is, you're the one who defended Patrick Ewing as an elite player. A guy who actually DID have talent around him and still couldn't win a title. By your own standards one of those arguments makes no sense.

No, you are using it wrong here. It depends on who you are comparing them to. Comparing Ewing to other guys who have failed to win as the man is not a problem. Comparing him to someone like Hakeem, then yes Ewing comes up short.

Lebron yes has the same abilities now vs the finals, however it means in the finals that he did well.

It's like you can be great student and do well on the exams, but the real test which is 30-50% of your grade comes on the final exam. If you don't do well, it doesn't help you. If you do well, it takes you to the next level.

tredigs
04-25-2010, 10:42 PM
JordansBulls, it's as if you're trying to insinuate that Lebron didn't show up in the finals. JetsFan is making all the points you need to hear about player matchups and game planning in a seven game series. Lebron is one of the greatest talents the league has ever seen, and on a game to game basis he's going to win at a high rate. That doesn't change the fact that an opposing team can expose the Cavs' weaknesses and defeat them in a 7 game series.

Michael Jordan wasn't able to put together a finals run until his seventh season in the league, and if he never got the right team around him, he'd still be championshipless. It's a team sport. Look at how Lebron played in the playoffs last year, he absolutely KILLED it. I know you like the PER stat, so you should take heed of the fact that his was 37.4 during their run. That's probably the best of all time. But the Magic showed up, played great, exploited matchup weaknesses and had a superior game plan. That's how you get to the finals in this league.

jetsfan28
04-25-2010, 10:42 PM
No, you are using it wrong here. It depends on who you are comparing them to. Comparing Ewing to other guys who have failed to win as the man is not a problem. Comparing him to someone like Hakeem, then yes Ewing comes up short.

Lebron yes has the same abilities now vs the finals, however it means in the finals that he did well.

It's like you can be great student and do well on the exams, but the real test which is 30-50% of your grade comes on the final exam. If you don't do well, it doesn't help you. If you do well, it takes you to the next level.

No, it's nothing like that. That's a ****ing ridiculous argument. That is an individual achievement.

If you actually want to look at that example on a TEAM perspective, if my friend sucks at science, and I work with him all year in science as his lab partner, and I carry him to a good grade despite his ineptitude, my friend isn't going to come over and start answering questions on my INDIVIDUAL final.

Unless it's a group final, where instead of having time to go home and do the work myself, I'll actually need to rely on him to do some of it because it's timed, in which case yes, I will do worse. Not because of me, but because of an absolute necessity to rely more on those around me.

Basketball a team sport, all the way through the finals.

D Roses Bulls
04-25-2010, 10:42 PM
OK, so I guess you would take Ammo over LeBron too? He's a champion, right?


LeBron did as much as he possibly could with inferior talent around him. He has constantly had inferior talent around him until this year. Any argument to the contrary is simply incorrect. Every statistical measure backs it up, the players he's had around him are inferior to the ones he plays against.

http://media.photobucket.com/image/wtf/Komrade180/WTFtails.jpg?o=14

_KB24_
04-25-2010, 10:50 PM
Lol at "Missy". Not even going to dignify your dumb *** post with a response. Rather, I'll just continue to watch as Westbrook outplays Kobe in their playoff series, while Lebron outplays Rose in his playoff series. If the Lakers manage to put it together and scrape by the Thunder and possibly reach the finals, then you'll be able to see Lebron do the same.

I knew you wouldn't because I just made you look like a little girl. You can't compare Rose and Westbrook at all IMO right now. Rose has proven he can be the leader of a team and still produce at a high level, do you honestly think that Westbrook would have the same impact on the Bulls?

I'm already ready for the little insecure homers to start talking. I heard it all last year and the cockiness displayed by the Cavs, lets see if the Cavs can even make the Finals.

(PS, Don't bother buying a Durant jersey, just wait for when he moves over to a bigger market team)

JordansBulls
04-25-2010, 10:50 PM
No, it's nothing like that. That's a ****ing ridiculous argument. That is an individual achievement.

If you actually want to look at that example on a TEAM perspective, if my friend sucks at science, and I work with him all year in science as his lab partner, and I carry him to a good grade despite his ineptitude, my friend isn't going to come over and start answering questions on my INDIVIDUAL final.

Unless it's a group final, where instead of having time to go home and do the work myself, I'll actually need to rely on him to do some of it because it's timed, in which case yes, I will do worse. Not because of me, but because of an absolute necessity to rely more on those around me.

Basketball a team sport, all the way through the finals.

But the team doesn't suck. They have a 3x finals mvp player in Shaq and 1x league mvp in Shaq. Jamison a 2x allstar, Mo a 1x allstar, Big Z a 2x allstar.

jetsfan28
04-25-2010, 10:54 PM
But the team doesn't suck. They have a 3x finals mvp player in Shaq and 1x league mvp in Shaq. Jamison a 2x allstar, Mo a 1x allstar, Big Z a 2x allstar.

First of all, that's another ridiculous argument. Shaq is 38 and hasn't been an All-Star 2 of the last 3 years, Z hasn't been an All-Star since 2005, Jamison has been an All-Star 1 of the last 5 years, and Mo Williams was a 2nd injury replacement. Other than Williams, all making the All-Star team means is that those guys used to be good.


Second of all, the team HAS sucked every year until now, until being almost decent last year, and you're still using the finals as an argument against LeBron's performance thus far in his career. You have already said that based on his recent play so far LeBron isn't as good as other guys who have won championships when he has played with those awful teams.

tredigs
04-25-2010, 10:56 PM
I knew you wouldn't because I just made you look like a little girl. You can't compare Rose and Westbrook at all IMO right now. Rose has proven he can be the leader of a team and still produce at a high level, do you honestly think that Westbrook would have the same impact on the Bulls?

I'm already ready for the little insecure homers to start talking. I heard it all last year and the cockiness displayed by the Cavs, lets see if the Cavs can even make the Finals.

(PS, Don't bother buying a Durant jersey, just wait for when he moves over to a bigger market team)

I didn't for the fact that you're too stupid to argue with.

"Don't argue with a fool, the spectators can't tell the difference". Your posts are devoid of critical thinking, and it's not worth my time to explain things to you. Generally speaking, if a persons screen name is another person's name, they probably aren't ready to accept that they're wrong about that player. You're no exception, kid.

Edit:

But the team doesn't suck. They have a 3x finals mvp player in Shaq and 1x league mvp in Shaq. Jamison a 2x allstar, Mo a 1x allstar, Big Z a 2x allstar.

This is the most hilariously awful argument you could have mustered. You can't even see the light anymore with the deepness of the hole you've dug.

JordansBulls, name me a team of weaker role players than the 07 or 08 Cavs that has won an NBA finals.

D Roses Bulls
04-25-2010, 10:58 PM
I didn't for the fact that you're too stupid to argue with.

"Don't argue with a fool, the spectators can't tell the difference". Your posts are devoid of critical thinking, and it's not worth my team to explain things to you. Generally speaking, if a persons screen name is another person's name, they probably aren't ready to accept that they're wrong about that player. You're no exception, kid.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_0qsi1z4Fi8

Geargo Wallace
04-25-2010, 10:59 PM
Dude LeBron is like the worst player ever.

D Roses Bulls
04-25-2010, 11:01 PM
Dude LeBron is like the worst player ever.

i could of told you that one

D Roses Bulls
04-25-2010, 11:04 PM
this thread is so much fun

JordansBulls
04-25-2010, 11:07 PM
First of all, that's another ridiculous argument. Shaq is 38 and hasn't been an All-Star 2 of the last 3 years, Z hasn't been an All-Star since 2005, Jamison has been an All-Star 1 of the last 5 years, and Mo Williams was a 2nd injury replacement. Other than Williams, all making the All-Star team means is that those guys used to be good.


Second of all, the team HAS sucked every year until now, until being almost decent last year, and you're still using the finals as an argument against LeBron's performance thus far in his career. You have already said that based on his recent play so far LeBron isn't as good as other guys who have won championships when he has played with those awful teams.

No, it shows he needed a guy who won as the man in the past to win now. But my point is that the Cavs won 66 games last year with the best team in the league in the Eastern Conference considering Garnett was out and Nelson was out.

I dont think either one of us is going to budge here. So we are essentially arguing with one another for nothing.

JordansBulls
04-25-2010, 11:09 PM
This is the most hilariously awful argument you could have mustered. You can't even see the light anymore with the deepness of the hole you've dug.

JordansBulls, name me a team of weaker role players than the 07 or 08 Cavs that has won an NBA finals.

You dont' believe that. The 2007 Cavs played against a Wizards team that had 2 guys injured in Arenas and Jamison. And then they played an injured Nets team and an overrated Pistons team.

Fact of the matter is Lebron and the Cavs have only beaten one 50 win team since Lebron has joined.

tredigs
04-25-2010, 11:18 PM
You dont' believe that. The 2007 Cavs played against a Wizards team that had 2 guys injured in Arenas and Jamison. And then they played an injured Nets team and an overrated Pistons team.

Fact of the matter is Lebron and the Cavs have only beaten one 50 win team since Lebron has joined.

This is the first year he's had a team with the ability to do that in a 7 game series. You're going to feel dumb doubting this guys ability after he starts accruing rings. The fact of the matter is no team in NBA history has ever won a ring with a supporting cast as poor as those teams. And the other fact of the matter is that the 37.4 PER he posted last season in the playoffs wasn't an accident. He came to play; as hard and with as much consistently as any player in a playoff run in NBA history. Unfortunately for them, his teammates weren't up for the challenge.

This arguments become circular, agree to disagree it is.

jetsfan28
04-25-2010, 11:20 PM
You dont' believe that. The 2007 Cavs played against a Wizards team that had 2 guys injured in Arenas and Jamison. And then they played an injured Nets team and an overrated Pistons team.

Fact of the matter is Lebron and the Cavs have only beaten one 50 win team since Lebron has joined.

It was Arenas and Butler. And even with those injuries, Washington started 3 players that could have started on Cleveland.

3 players from that Nets team would have started for Cleveland, maybe 4.

And Detroit had 7 players who would have started on the Cavs over everyone except Z and LeBron.



And none of those even answered that post. What team has won a championship with a supporting cast even remotely close to being as bad as Gooden, Z, Pavlovic, and Hughes + Gibson, Marshall, and a still sucky Varejao?

NetsPaint
04-26-2010, 02:14 AM
Sig bet saying LeBron will end his career with having been on three different teams in his career.

Toenail Clipper
04-26-2010, 02:36 AM
Dude LeBron is like the worst player ever.

I agree

bbblack40
04-26-2010, 02:51 AM
I like Rose, and I never necessarily said Westbrook was better, but there's a very legitimate argument that he's equally good. I won't expect someone with the screen name "D Roses Bulls" to fully appreciate that, but it's a fact.

Have you even been watching the Lakers/Thunder series? He is destroying out there. Been the best player in the series so far. That's saying A LOT when you have KD, Kobe and Pau out there playing with everything on the line.

no bias here gotta be honest, D rose is a better player i mean dont get me wrong Westbrook is awesome but Rose is better not by a whole lot but he is. I mean u swap these two players rose on the thunder and westbrook on the bulls. Thunder are a top 3 seed in the west bulls would b battling the pacers and knicks for 9th in the east.

bbblack40
04-26-2010, 03:01 AM
It was Arenas and Butler. And even with those injuries, Washington started 3 players that could have started on Cleveland.

3 players from that Nets team would have started for Cleveland, maybe 4.

And Detroit had 7 players who would have started on the Cavs over everyone except Z and LeBron.



And none of those even answered that post. What team has won a championship with a supporting cast even remotely close to being as bad as Gooden, Z, Pavlovic, and Hughes + Gibson, Marshall, and a still sucky Varejao?

the 2006 heat supporting cast was awful. Shaq gettin outplayed by dampier says it best, Antoine Walker as ur starting SF and winning a ring is amazing.lol ancient GP as ur 6th man ouch.bad knees j.williams at starting point gaurd Zo,posey and haslem hustled their ***** off thats about it

Sadds The Gr8
04-26-2010, 03:26 AM
Why are people saying Wade's championship cast sucked? Last time I checked Shaq still averaged around 20+10, and Lebron has had no1 CLOSE to 20+10 until Jamison...

bbblack40
04-26-2010, 03:45 AM
Why are people saying Wade's championship cast sucked? Last time I checked Shaq still averaged around 20+10, and Lebron has had no1 CLOSE to 20+10 until Jamison...

you might need 2 check again then. shaq average 13.6 and like 9rebs in tha finals

bbblack40
04-26-2010, 04:30 AM
2007 Eastern conference Champs
Drew Gooden 11ppg 9rpg
Big Z 13ppg 10rpg
Gibson 8ppg
Larry Hughes 15ppg 4rpg
Lebron 22ppg 7rpg 6apg in the finals (avg. 27ppg in the reg. season)

2006 NBA Champions
Jason williams 9ppg
antoine walker 12ppg 5rpg
haslem 9ppg 7rpg
Shaq 13.6ppg 9rpg(he did average 20 in the reg. season but tha finals is where his age showed)
Wade 34.7ppg 8rpg 7apg in the finals(27ppg in reg.season)

Both teams were pretty suspect only differnece is Wade rose to the challenge and carried his team 2 a ring

JordansBulls
04-26-2010, 08:24 AM
This is the first year he's had a team with the ability to do that in a 7 game series. You're going to feel dumb doubting this guys ability after he starts accruing rings. The fact of the matter is no team in NBA history has ever won a ring with a supporting cast as poor as those teams. And the other fact of the matter is that the 37.4 PER he posted last season in the playoffs wasn't an accident. He came to play; as hard and with as much consistently as any player in a playoff run in NBA history. Unfortunately for them, his teammates weren't up for the challenge.

This arguments become circular, agree to disagree it is.
No it is not the 1st year. Last year as well he had the best team in the league by far.

Let's not forget that Lebron plays well against Bad teams. He had over a 44.5 PER thru the first two rounds mainly because the other teams starters were just terrible. Case in point, Tayshaun Prince had a negative win shares amount and had a negative PER. PER is set at 15 for the average starter and for someone who starts to get a negative PER goes to show how bad they were. Thus Lebron was able to do what he does best and that is stat pad his numbers. That is why it hurt them later on.

Remember this is the same guy who wore a shirt saying "Check My Stats"

http://www.posterized.net/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/lebroncheckmystats.jpg

And he certainly padded his stats against Detroit and Atlanta.


The Cavs had the best record all year, they had the highest point differential in winning, they had the highest SRS rating.

In the playoffs they won the first 2 rounds by 10+ points in every game and even in the playoffs the Cavs had a 8.5 pts per game differential which was the highest in the postseason that year.

The Cavs were cruising while the Magic were getting outplayed and down in the series to the Sixers initially and the Celtics without KG and then you expect me to believe that Orlando was the better team all along? I just don't buy that all and really it is just an excuse because the Cavs lost. Also lets not forget the Cavs were up each game at home of the 3 games by more than 20+ points each time.

The Cavs were not bad period.

1) They nearly beat the Sixers the last game of the season with the Sixers playing all of there best players the entire game and the Cavs were doing this with 3 starters out and 2 others playing less than 20 minutes.

Why things would have been different

1) Cavs had a 20 point lead in each of it's home games. There is no way in hell you get up by 20+ points in each home game in the conference finals without being a good team.

2) There is no reason why Lebron should have defended Rafer for most of the games at home. Rafer does not play well on the road period and most of the time doesn't play well. Another reason why this wasn't good it left Mo Williams and Delonte West to defend Lee and Hedo guys who were simply bigger than they were and thus they could shoot right over Mo Williams and Delonte West.

3) Lebron passed off on the last possession with the team down 1 point. When you are the star and your team is down and you are not up in the series, you take the shot.

4) Lebron held the ball too long on possessions. I know he did nearly everything, but it would have been quite different with a set offense then just passing the rock and expecting guys to hit shots with 4 seconds left on the shot clock when they hadn't touched the ball the entire possession.

5) Lebron simply needed to score 50+ in that game 1. He was hot, he needed to make sure the Cavs got that game.


One other thing about Playoff Win Shares and PER. Dirk had a higher PER and Win Shares in 2006 in the postseason than Wade, but would you say he was better when Wade won without HCA and beat Dirk in the finals?

Only thing that really matters is the finals. Playoffs come 2nd.


Hell Jerry West averaged 37.9 ppg in the finals in 1969 and he and Wilt get the blame for losing to the Celtics because the were heavy favorites in that series.

http://webuns.chez-alice.fr/finals/1969.htm#

Sadds The Gr8
04-26-2010, 12:42 PM
you might need 2 check again then. shaq average 13.6 and like 9rebs in tha finals

I'm talkin about reg. season. He averaged 20 + 9...pretty damn close to 20+10 and better than anything Lebron has had until this year.