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View Full Version : Jackson On Kobe: Shoot better, or shoot less.



JasonJohnHorn
04-21-2010, 08:31 AM
Note: Please dont move to Lakers forum, I'm hoping to get responces on this from fan across the league, not just Lakers fans.


Posted on NBA.com: http://www.nba.com/2010/playoffs/2010/04/20/jackson.kobe.ap/index.html?ls=iref:nbahpt2


Phil on Kobe: Shoot better or shoot less

Posted Apr 20 2010 11:01PM

LOS ANGELES (AP) -- Lakers coach Phil Jackson wants Kobe Bryant to improve his shooting or take fewer shots.

Bryant scored 21 points on 6-for-19 shooting Sunday in the Lakers' 87-79 victory over the Oklahoma City Thunder in their playoff opener. He missed five of 12 free throws.

Jackson said before Game 2 on Tuesday night that Bryant can continue playing the same way, but he'll have to limit the number of shots he takes. He said Bryant can't shoot 30 percent as he has recently and expect the Lakers to win.

"He is well aware of it. He's a little befuddled by it, but coming to terms with it," Jackson said.

Bryant has been bothered by a swollen right knee, a broken right index finger and a sore tendon in his left ankle, all of which contributed to his missing four of the team's final five regular-season games.

Bryant's return for the playoff opener affected the number of touches big men Pau Gasol and Andrew Bynum got in Game 1, which Jackson wasn't happy about.

"They want to give him the ball inside of really seeing that the post is open, and they've got to pass it in there," he said. "They see where Kobe is a lot of times, and sometimes the squeaky wheel gets the most grease."

Bryant is looking for a breakout game, the kind of high-scoring effort that he's made his reputation on.

"Those are the things that he's used to, that moment when he gets hot, he stays hot and can ride seven consecutive scoring opportunities down the floor," Jackson said. "That hasn't happened, and that makes all the difference in the world to his game."

Jackson said all of Bryant's injuries are limiting him.

"Right now it's being out of rhythm, having to sit out and get himself prepared for [the playoffs]," he said. "But he'll be back, and he'll be back strong."


END


I have mentioned the Kobe forcing shots issues several times, as have other forum memebers, and it seems like Lakers fans jump down people's throats about it (not trying to bait here, just stating how discussions usually turn out on the matter). But even Jackson himself has brought attention to the issue: The Lakers coach! The Zen Master!

Thoughts on Jackson's assessment?

stawka
04-21-2010, 08:48 AM
Everyone including REAL Laker fans (not Kobe fans) has been saying this all year. The Kobe fans make excuses, the Laker fans face reality. Whether he's hurt he not, he needs to shoot less. His presence alone requires very tight D (often a double-team), so he doesn't need to shoot all the time. Plus, he has Odom off the bench, Bynum in the paint.. And that Gasol guy is pretty damn good!

AIsixersFK
04-21-2010, 08:56 AM
He should shoot less regardless. This Lakers squad is stacked. Their 4th option is better than my sixers first option. Spread the ball around. Their the best team in basketball.

td0tsfinest
04-21-2010, 08:57 AM
The team has a lot of weapons and it would be waste to not use that talent on the offensive end. Once those guys get it going, it opens a bigger window for Kobe.

clutchski
04-21-2010, 09:04 AM
Yeah well if that's the case with Kobe's shooting Gasol should be getting more touches..he's incredible offensively and is probably underused.

ManRam
04-21-2010, 09:05 AM
Moral of the story: Phil has a brain.

GrumpyOldMan
04-21-2010, 09:11 AM
How much of this do you think is the zenmaster rattling Kobe's cage to try to get him going? Jackson is a very smart coach.

TheHoopsProphet
04-21-2010, 09:26 AM
Phil's just stating what we're all thinking.

tdunk21
04-21-2010, 09:27 AM
did phil just say kobe is a ball hog??

Raph12
04-21-2010, 09:33 AM
If you guys watched the game, you'd know that there was no Lakers player on the court that could score aside from Pau and Kobe. It got to the point where each team was just forcing shots up, praying it would go in, and then Kobe came back in with 8mins left to go and dropped 15 fourth quarter points... Had he not taken those shots, they probably would've lost.

Now I do agree that his shot selection needs work, but if you take out the 5 shots that he was blocked on, he'd be 12-23, which is pretty damn good. Again shooting less would work as long as his teammates have it going, but if your team is struggling to score, than you don't really have a choice.

Hellcrooner
04-21-2010, 09:38 AM
problem is kobe "shot better" ysterday and scored almost 40 and we won so notings gonna change.

Specially when kobe had no reasons yesterday to pass it because no one (but pau) was doing jack.

mikantsass
04-21-2010, 09:40 AM
Kobe was the reason they won last night, guess he shot better

tjlipford
04-21-2010, 10:00 AM
I think Phil is the best coach ever and also the smartest.

Kobe shoots because they dont hit shots like they did last year. Phil is all about mind games. Kobe does shoot too much at times but can u really blame him? I watched that game last night and besides Pau, LA looked stale and Artest is continuing to build mansions with all those bricks he puts up every game.

Even with all those little nagging injuries he is still at a level above most and he also won them so many games this year because of there inabilities to come through in crunch time. He still shot 28 shots last night.

Kobe will continue to play like KOBE because thats who he is and how it made him one of the best players ever to step on the court. Phil knows exactly what he is doing.

ballpd05
04-21-2010, 10:01 AM
if you take out the 5 shots that he was blocked on, he'd be 12-23, which is pretty damn good.

You cannot take away the 5 shots he got blocked because if he got blocked likelihood is he forced it.


He should shoot less regardless. This Lakers squad is stacked. Their 4th option is better than my sixers first option. Spread the ball around. Their the best team in basketball

^ This, they are stacked. There are alot of teams who their 4th option could probably be better than.

That's why Kobe needs to share the ball more. I don't think any team can match both of their big men. Bynum and Gasol are the best big man tandem in the league, and I agree they need to get more touches. Kobe unless he is on fire should look to facilitate more. Good players make themselves better, great players make everyone around them better.

$KnicksAndKobe$
04-21-2010, 10:04 AM
Everyone was missing there open shots last night other than Kobe and Gasol.
He carried that team when they were missing wide open shots, 39 points and a win sounds good to me.

Iodine
04-21-2010, 10:05 AM
Now I do agree that his shot selection needs work, but if you take out the 5 shots that he was blocked on, he'd be 12-23, which is pretty damn good.

And if you take out the 12 shots he made, he would be 0-11!!!!!


And yes, Manrammer is right

G-Funk
04-21-2010, 10:10 AM
I agree that he needs to shoot less and let his team dig them selfs out of the wholes they get into but this game was too close to let Kobe let the game go.

tjlipford
04-21-2010, 10:10 AM
Out of all the games I've seen of them this year, I think Kobe should shoot. For some reason they dont come through like everybody has said they do. There main acquisition has not really done anything for them on offense.

That is the problem. Kobe could pass it off more last year because Ariza is a better spot up shooter than Artest, therefore resulting in more points from the because of the three.

Kobe should stay aggressive and take better shots, but the rest of the team needs to hit more shots and step up.

ragee
04-21-2010, 10:16 AM
I think Phil is the best coach ever and also the smartest.

In my opinion, Phil was a great coach but has stopped coaching (if you know what I mean) and just let the talent of his team do all the work...

G-Funk
04-21-2010, 10:24 AM
^ you can save that for a different threat

ragee
04-21-2010, 10:26 AM
^ you can save that for a different threat

Hahaha... True... But I can't help it... He started it!

Avenged
04-21-2010, 11:31 AM
This is exactly what we all have been saying this whole time.

Yesterday, I think was an exception to this though. Outside of Kobe and Pau, nobody else was making anything. Kobe was setting up his teammates in the early going but they wouldn't hit the open shots. When nobody else is making shots, I'd prefer Kobe taking them. As far as last night's game goes, Kobe pretty much won them that game. L.O and Artest need to wake up offensively.

Nighthawk
04-21-2010, 11:34 AM
In my opinion, Phil was a great coach but has stopped coaching (if you know what I mean) and just let the talent of his team do all the work...

I want to see Phil Jackson coach a team that doesnt have 2 or 3 hall of famers on it. Then hell impress me. He doesnt coach.

Storch
04-21-2010, 11:38 AM
Wow, well looks like we're going to see more fluidity in the Laker offense now. :clap: Good move Phil.

Avenged
04-21-2010, 11:42 AM
Phil Jackson is just cursed.

He's not a good coach because he was blessed with Jordan, Shaq, and Kobe. :rolleyes:

koreancabbage
04-21-2010, 11:55 AM
I want to see Phil Jackson coach a team that doesnt have 2 or 3 hall of famers on it. Then hell impress me. He doesnt coach.

so you're saying all the championships he has won has not won any respect from you? Who are you kidding? you gotta have talent to win the NBA, especially now that the best teams have 2-3 all-star players on them.

GMs would want Phil Jackson to come coach their team, but what coach would want to come coach a scrub team? a desperate one. and Phil isn't desperate and he's a legend. He's made the right decisions in coaching Chicago with MJ and coach in LA.

eugene
04-21-2010, 12:02 PM
Kobe is a ball hog. What's new? I watched him from his first days in the NBA.

RaiderLakersA's
04-21-2010, 01:26 PM
Phil isn't telling Kobe to not shoot. He is telling him to take better shots or create a better shot for someone else. This isn't news.

The other side of that equation is for the other Lakers not named Pau or Bynum to hit their shots more consistently. PJ knows Kobe better than anyone, and he knows that there is always a trust factor with Kobe. Kobe will dish if he knows that a player will hit the shot. But if he starts to doubt them, then he'll take it on his own shoulders. The 15 points in the 4th quarter exemplifies that.

ILLN355
04-21-2010, 01:49 PM
Thunder have a weak front line, Gasol and Bynum could score all night on Green and Kristic

billy17
04-21-2010, 02:06 PM
Did they lose or something..........?

ILLN355
04-21-2010, 02:08 PM
Did they lose or something..........?

i think so

Lakersfan2483
04-21-2010, 02:17 PM
Outside of Pau Gasol, the rest of the team shot 9-39 from the field in Game 2. Kobe and Pau carried the Lakers to the win. There was nothing wrong with Kobe's shot selection in Game 2 and he took over the game in the 4th quarter. He scored 15 pts. in the 4th and was brilliant down the stretch.

celtisox41
04-21-2010, 02:18 PM
Jackson doesn't know ******* about basketball, he wins because he goes to teams with superstars and leaves when they retire. He has nothing on Red Auerbach. Let kobe do what he does, he's the real leader of that team not phil jackson. The zen master is a joke, he got that nickname for not calling timeouts when he needs to, and kobe and jordan bringing his teams back

Frezhnitz
04-21-2010, 02:37 PM
Without kobe shooting, whos gonna make shots. Artest, Fisher, LO shots hardly goes in.

thekmp211
04-21-2010, 02:40 PM
Jackson doesn't know ******* about basketball, he wins because he goes to teams with superstars and leaves when they retire. He has nothing on Red Auerbach. Let kobe do what he does, he's the real leader of that team not phil jackson. The zen master is a joke, he got that nickname for not calling timeouts when he needs to, and kobe and jordan bringing his teams back

he's been blessed with talent yes but neither the lakers nor the bulls won until phil was the coach.

i think there are a lot of coaches that can coach the hell out of guys and make them play to a higher potential. i also think there are some guys who are good at making a collection of talent/egos gel. you can't disregard that just because of circumstance, 10 championship teams is not an accident. id liken his style to torre w/ the yankees.

Avenged
04-21-2010, 02:49 PM
Jackson doesn't know ******* about basketball, he wins because he goes to teams with superstars and leaves when they retire. He has nothing on Red Auerbach. Let kobe do what he does, he's the real leader of that team not phil jackson. The zen master is a joke, he got that nickname for not calling timeouts when he needs to, and kobe and jordan bringing his teams back

Yeah.. Phil Jackson doesn't know anything about basketball. :eyebrow:

still1ballin
04-21-2010, 02:52 PM
Phil nailed it. We have an advantage and thats with Gasol/Bynum. If you looked closely in both starts of Game 1 and Game 2, in G1, Lakers fed the ball down load to them and got them to an early start. In G2, 3 out of 4 Kobe's shots were long two pointers in the opening minutes of the 1st. I don't even think Bynum touched the ball for the 1st 5 minutes. Glad to see Phil tell Kobe how it is.

ballpd05
04-21-2010, 02:53 PM
he's been blessed with talent yes but neither the lakers nor the bulls won until phil was the coach.

i think there are a lot of coaches that can coach the hell out of guys and make them play to a higher potential. i also think there are some guys who are good at making a collection of talent/egos gel. you can't disregard that just because of circumstance, 10 championship teams is not an accident. id liken his style to torre w/ the yankees.

True Jordan was there since 85 and didn't win til Phil came in. Then Shaq and Kobe were together since 96, but didn't win until 2000.


There was nothing wrong with Kobe's shot selection in Game 2 and he took over the game in the 4th quarter. He scored 15 pts. in the 4th and was brilliant down the stretch.

There is a problem with him going 12-28 aka 35.7% from the field. Pau Gasol was 8-14 and Bynum only took 9 shots granted he only made 3. They have a distinct advantage on the inside so to make life easier on them they should play inside outside instead of vice versa. Like some dude said it is no contest btwn Bynum and Gasol vs. Green and Kristic.

Durant, Sefelosha, and Westbrook are all athletic, long, and good defenders. But OKC is weak under the rim. The lakers need to expose them, and stop going into down to the wire scenarios. They can't afford to play like that against Dallas, Denver, or Utah.

Lakersfan2483
04-21-2010, 03:16 PM
True Jordan was there since 85 and didn't win til Phil came in. Then Shaq and Kobe were together since 96, but didn't win until 2000.



There is a problem with him going 12-28 aka 35.7% from the field. Pau Gasol was 8-14 and Bynum only took 9 shots granted he only made 3. They have a distinct advantage on the inside so to make life easier on them they should play inside outside instead of vice versa. Like some dude said it is no contest btwn Bynum and Gasol vs. Green and Kristic.

Durant, Sefelosha, and Westbrook are all athletic, long, and good defenders. But OKC is weak under the rim. The lakers need to expose them, and stop going into down to the wire scenarios. They can't afford to play like that against Dallas, Denver, or Utah.

I can see you didn't major in math as 12 for 28 is 43pct from the field. He also shot 50 pct. from the field in the 2nd half of the game. Did you watch the game last night or are you just reading box scores? OKlahoma City's game plan was to front the post and have the perimeter defenders sag off of the perimeter players daring our guards to make shots (Fisher was 2-11 and Artest was 2-11 and Odom was for 3-9). The defense dictated what the Lakers did last night and the Thunder did an excellent job of playing defense.

The game went down to the wire because the Thunder are a better team than a lot of you are giving them credit for. They are extremely athletic and play very good team defense. The Lakers aren't playing some sorry team, they are playing a very good team. This series is not going to be a cakewalk.

tredigs
04-21-2010, 03:20 PM
Phil Jackson is just cursed.

He's not a good coach because he was blessed with Jordan, Shaq, and Kobe. :rolleyes:

Don't forget Pippen, Pau Gasol, and all the great 3rd/4th options. 99% of coaches will go their entire career without a team as solid as any of his championship teams. That said, I still believe he's a great coach. He's got a large, calming demeanor that just seems to handle superstars of that magnitude perfectly. I can only imagine that it would not be easy to earn the complete respect and trust of some of these players over the years like he has.

And to those pointing that Kobe was the one making the shots yesterday because nobody else could, well I think they're part right. I think he probably had to try and take those difficult shots yesterday being that everyone was so ice cold (though really, it was just tough Thunder defense contesting every shot more than ice, just as in most poor shooting nights for teams), but that was the exception to the rule. Against a team like the Thunder, Pau HAS to be taking more than 14 shots to Kobe's 28. He's much more efficient than Kobe, and a much MUCH tougher stop for OKC. Pretty curious to see how he'll react to these comments in game three.

DodgerBlue82
04-21-2010, 03:46 PM
he's been blessed with talent yes but neither the lakers nor the bulls won until phil was the coach.
i think there are a lot of coaches that can coach the hell out of guys and make them play to a higher potential. i also think there are some guys who are good at making a collection of talent/egos gel. you can't disregard that just because of circumstance, 10 championship teams is not an accident. id liken his style to torre w/ the yankees.

I hope you are just referring to the lakers with Kobe because before Phil was in LA I believe Pat Riley and Magic, and so on won in LA.

ARMIN12NBA
04-21-2010, 04:46 PM
Kobe should shoot less, but others need to make shots. Bynum, Odom, Artest, and Fisher can't combine to shoot 24% again and expect Kobe/Pau to pass to them.

BTW--Kobe had an average shooting game overall in Game 2, but shot 50% in the second half.

tredigs
04-21-2010, 04:51 PM
Kobe should shoot less, but others need to make shots. Bynum, Odom, Artest, and Fisher can't combine to shoot 24% again and expect Kobe/Pau to pass to them.

BTW--Kobe had an average shooting game overall in Game 2, but shot 50% in the second half.

You don't want 42% to become an "average game" if you're chucking up 28 shots though, do you?

FOBolous
04-21-2010, 04:58 PM
so are all the Kobe fan boys gonna hate on Phil for this? i mean...me and a whole bunch of other members on the forum has been saying this for awhile now and all the kobe fan boys bashed us and called us "haters." When Pau Gasol said something along this line...all the "LA fans" turned on him.

ARMIN12NBA
04-21-2010, 05:19 PM
You don't want 42% to become an "average game" if you're chucking up 28 shots though, do you?

42% is average in terms of league average. That is why I said average. Of course, you don't want him shooting average for 28 shots. It is still average though, he still shot 50% in the 2nd half, and better than your 3-6 who shot 24%.

Either way, OKC is playing great interior defense. They are clogging the paint like gangbusters (17 blocks). The constant triple teams they are putting up in the paint is why it is much harder to get interior play going. A few times Pau has gotten it and passed it right back out because OKC is playing great defense.

Kobe got the ball swatted 3 times himself (12 for 25 on shooting ain't so bad I guess). Bynum shot 3 for 9 and he is exclusively a paint player! He was also blocked a couple times.

The onus is going to be on Fisher (2 for 10), Artest (2 for 10), and Odom (2 for 9) to hit those wide-open outside shots they are getting. Once they get their shots in at a better rate, then OKC cannot play the defense they are playing and Pau can get some more shots inside and Kobe won't be counted on as much to take outside shots.

-Kobe24-TJ19-
04-21-2010, 05:26 PM
Jackson doesn't know ******* about basketball, he wins because he goes to teams with superstars and leaves when they retire. He has nothing on Red Auerbach. Let kobe do what he does, he's the real leader of that team not phil jackson. The zen master is a joke, he got that nickname for not calling timeouts when he needs to, and kobe and jordan bringing his teams back

haha and Auerbach didn't have an all-star team
:rolleyes:

chipurmunki
04-21-2010, 05:37 PM
i've always thought kobe was a glory hog. it's me first team second to him, and that's why he'll never be the 'greatest laker ever' or whatever hooplah 'title' everyone thinks he deserves. he's all for show, demands all the attention when he's hot, shifts blame when he's not, calling out teammates for his refusal to share the ball, and complains like none other the few times he actually gets whistled for his constant dirty play.
him being a douche is not news to me, he's been one his whole career.

TmacBryant
04-21-2010, 05:38 PM
the problem with this argument is that no one is really stepping up when they need to step up. Everyone plays fine the first 2 quarters ( this is when kobe is being the "facilitator"), but then it gets sloppy from there. Artest wont shoot open threes, his mentality is to play defense. Fisher jacks up shots, some nights they are good, others he will miss 7 in a row and still shoot. Bynum is still injured, but i think he should get the ball a little more. Odom doesnt drive in or shoot enough. Like last night , i think it was the 3rd quarter where lakers had no offense going, Gasol had 2 turnovers straight, so kobe had to take over. At most i could see kobe shooting 2-3 shots less, but you cant blame him for everything when no one is stepping up in the last 2 quarters.

Miltown34
04-21-2010, 06:07 PM
We been saying this, but PJackson has been dissing Kobe ever since that book. He makes little sarcastic remarks, when people say what great plays he did, it's weird though, the things I've heard Phil say about Kobe and others that know them in the media

ARMIN12NBA
04-21-2010, 06:10 PM
We been saying this, but PJackson has been dissing Kobe ever since that book. He makes little sarcastic remarks, when people say what great plays he did, it's weird though, the things I've heard Phil say about Kobe and others that know them in the media

That is why they are called sarcastic remarks.

Phil has been serious about Kobe plenty of times this season. He has even called him the unquestioned leader and a great leader.

I know you are talking about Skip Bayless' theory, but it is blatantly wrong for any Laker fan who follows the Lakers daily (and by follow, I mean watch the interviews after practices and read articles EVERY SINGLE DAY).

Miltown34
04-21-2010, 06:11 PM
People always say oh he had 40 pts yesterday, nobody told Kobe to stop shooting, but whne he's off he should tone it down that's all....Or if he still has it in him consistently beat his man off the dribble and get some more assist when he's having an off night...PJ said the difference between him and Jordan is that Jordan got easier shots...

Raps08-09 Champ
04-21-2010, 08:27 PM
Don't they have a losing record when he shoots over 20 or 30 times or something like that?

kArSoN RyDaH
04-21-2010, 08:39 PM
where does he tell kobe to shoot better or shoot less? he doesnt say it at all...

Toenail Clipper
04-21-2010, 08:43 PM
Well if the bench did ****, he wouldn't be forcing shots on a broken finger.

kArSoN RyDaH
04-21-2010, 08:46 PM
i've always thought kobe was a glory hog. it's me first team second to him, and that's why he'll never be the 'greatest laker ever' or whatever hooplah 'title' everyone thinks he deserves. he's all for show, demands all the attention when he's hot, shifts blame when he's not, calling out teammates for his refusal to share the ball, and complains like none other the few times he actually gets whistled for his constant dirty play.
him being a douche is not news to me, he's been one his whole career.

find one instance where kobe is complaining about not getting the ball please...

and kobe isnt a glory hog. he does what he neeeds to do for the team to win. i guess your just another kobe hater. kobe isnt in the nba to make friends or make fans. hes in the nba to win championships and has already won 4. hes the lakers all time leading scorer. the most winningest franchise in the nba. after the lakers next game hell be the lakers all time playoff leading scorer.

still1ballin
04-21-2010, 09:39 PM
Then don't watch

Toenail Clipper
04-21-2010, 09:46 PM
Then don't watch

then don't watch

Avenged
04-21-2010, 10:15 PM
Don't they have a losing record when he shoots over 20 or 30 times or something like that?

Then don't watch.

thescore53
04-21-2010, 10:25 PM
then dont watch

FOBolous
04-21-2010, 10:38 PM
the problem with this argument is that no one is really stepping up when they need to step up. Everyone plays fine the first 2 quarters ( this is when kobe is being the "facilitator"), but then it gets sloppy from there. Artest wont shoot open threes, his mentality is to play defense. Fisher jacks up shots, some nights they are good, others he will miss 7 in a row and still shoot. Bynum is still injured, but i think he should get the ball a little more. Odom doesnt drive in or shoot enough. Like last night , i think it was the 3rd quarter where lakers had no offense going, Gasol had 2 turnovers straight, so kobe had to take over. At most i could see kobe shooting 2-3 shots less, but you cant blame him for everything when no one is stepping up in the last 2 quarters.

no one's stepping up because it's hard to step up when one person is dominating the ball. take the rockets for example, when tmac was "healthy," he dominates the ball. he literally did everything...walk the ball pass the half court line, act as the PG (facilitator), and score. the Rockets still win but struggled a lot at the same time...a lot of blame went to our role players with people saying how our role players suck and aren't stepping up when in reality, they just were never given the chance to step up because Tmac hogged the ball.

but than Tmac got injured and the rest is history. our role players finally got the chance to prove themselves and prove themselves they did. They took the Rockets to the 2nd round, something Tmac was never able to do. This year, we didn't make the playoffs but we still had a winning record in the tough Western Conference. Our role players got a chance to shine...Aaron Brooks won the MIP, Carl Landry was the front runner for the 6th man of the year until he became a starter, Scola showed he's a legit player carrying the team several times while racking up double doubles...the list goes on.

so when "role player" don't step up...sometimes it's not the role players' fault...its the fault of the team's "best" player. in this case, it's Kobe Bryant. They don't know how to be a "team" player. For them and their fans, them being a "team player" is when they kicked the ball out to another player when they have nothing left to go. Being a team player is much more than that...it's much more than just kicking the ball out. it's HOW you pass the ball, WHERE you pass the ball, WHEN you pass the ball, how you move without the ball, and if you setting picks for other players.

in this respect, both tmac, kobe, AND allen iverson fail. all of them were EXTREMELY good in their primes and can literally carry the team by themselves but when they start to decline...boy to they decline. they've been so good their whole lives they don't know how to step back and be part of the team as oppose to carrying the team like they're accustome to. this causes problems. they can't carry the team like they did in their younger years but they need the ball to be effective but because they're not as good as before...they eventually end up holding the team back instead of helping it.

i'm 100% this is the problem with LA's role players. i mean, damn...LA got the most talented "role players" in the league. Gasol? Bynum? Odom? Artest? c'mon man...that's a freaking all star team. They're too talented to not step up. Kobe's keeping them from stepping up.

IRUAM #21
04-21-2010, 10:46 PM
no one's stepping up because it's hard to step up when one person is dominating the ball. take the rockets for example, when tmac was "healthy," he dominates the ball. he literally did everything...walk the ball pass the half court line, act as the PG (facilitator), and score. the Rockets still win but struggled a lot at the same time...a lot of blame went to our role players with people saying how our role players suck and aren't stepping up when in reality, they just were never given the chance to step up because Tmac hogged the ball.

but than Tmac got injured and the rest is history. our role players finally got the chance to prove themselves and prove themselves they did. They took the Rockets to the 2nd round, something Tmac was never able to do. This year, we didn't make the playoffs but we still had a winning record in the tough Western Conference. Our role players got a chance to shine...Aaron Brooks won the MIP, Carl Landry was the front runner for the 6th man of the year until he became a starter, Scola showed he's a legit player carrying the team several times while racking up double doubles...the list goes on.

so when "role player" don't step up...sometimes it's not the role players' fault...its the fault of the team's "best" player. in this case, it's Kobe Bryant. They don't know how to be a "team" player. For them and their fans, them being a "team player" is when they kicked the ball out to another player when they have nothing left to go. Being a team player is much more than that...it's much more than just kicking the ball out. it's HOW you pass the ball, WHERE you pass the ball, WHEN you pass the ball, how you move without the ball, and if you setting picks for other players.

in this respect, both tmac, kobe, AND allen iverson fail. all of them were EXTREMELY good in their primes and can literally carry the team by themselves but when they start to decline...boy to they decline. they've been so good their whole lives they don't know how to step back and be part of the team as oppose to carrying the team like they're accustome to. this causes problems. they can't carry the team like they did in their younger years but they need the ball to be effective but because they're not as good as before...they eventually end up holding the team back instead of helping it.

i'm 100% this is the problem with LA's role players. i mean, damn...LA got the most talented "role players" in the league. Gasol? Bynum? Odom? Artest? c'mon man...that's a freaking all star team. They're too talented to not step up. Kobe's keeping them from stepping up.

Then don't watch

xbrackattackx
04-21-2010, 10:56 PM
Then don't watch

then dont watch.

ARMIN12NBA
04-21-2010, 11:06 PM
i'm 100% this is the problem with LA's role players. i mean, damn...LA got the most talented "role players" in the league. Gasol? Bynum? Odom? Artest? c'mon man...that's a freaking all star team. They're too talented to not step up. Kobe's keeping them from stepping up.

Gasol is stepping up. Bynum isn't healthy. Odom has never been consistent. Artest's hands are just as ****ed up as Kobe's and he was wholly criticized by Rockets fans as being a bad shooter and chucker.

All-star team? Only Gasol has been to an all-star game of the bunch in the past 5 years.

Ultimately, Kobe continues to give them great looks. He really does. Fisher just sucks. Farmar and Brown have never been shooters. Artest has never been a shooter and is banged up. Bynum and Odom are having a rough time against OKC's brilliant interior defense.

But just go ahead and blame Kobe for whatever reason you blame him for. Handling the ball too much? LOL. That is hilarious because the guy goes through the Triangle motions better than anybody on the team and is always doing his job in terms of off the ball work. In fact, a lot of his work is off the ball and on the other side of the court (creating a diversion to the Triangle set up on the opposite side).

Raps08-09 Champ
04-21-2010, 11:08 PM
Then don't watch.

How am I going to see Kobe's fine *** then?

xbrackattackx
04-21-2010, 11:09 PM
Gasol is stepping up. Bynum isn't healthy. Odom has never been consistent. Artest's hands are just as ****ed up as Kobe's and he was wholly criticized by Rockets fans as being a bad shooter and chucker.

All-star team? Only Gasol has been to an all-star game of the bunch in the past 5 years.

Ultimately, Kobe continues to give them great looks. He really does. Fisher just sucks. Farmar and Brown have never been shooters. Artest has never been a shooter and is banged up. Bynum and Odom are having a rough time against OKC's brilliant interior defense.

But just go ahead and blame Kobe for whatever reason you blame him for. Handling the ball too much? LOL. That is hilarious because he the guy goes through the Triangle motions better than anybody on the team and is always doing his job in terms of off the ball work. In fact, a lot of his work is off the ball and on the other side of the court (creating a diversion to the Triangle set up on the opposite side).


x2

still1ballin
04-21-2010, 11:50 PM
[/B]

x2

then don't watch

JayW_1023
04-22-2010, 12:46 AM
I'm fumbled by the continuing disrespect Laker fans give Derek Fisher, even after all the huge shots he has hit to bail the Lakers out. Derek Fisher has been just as instrumental to Kobe's success as an individual player, because no player in the NBA knows Kobe's game better.

Sure, Fisher has his deficiencies, but like Horry , he is a guy that ALWAYS comes up big when it matters. The typical intangibles guy. And it's about time he gets some common courtesy. He is a winner. And some of you have too short friggin' memories to appreciate what he brings to the table.

Avenged
04-22-2010, 01:00 AM
I'm fumbled by the continuing disrespect Laker fans give Derek Fisher, even after all the huge shots he has hit to bail the Lakers out. Derek Fisher has been just as instrumental to Kobe's success as an individual player, because no player in the NBA knows Kobe's game better.

Sure, Fisher has his deficiencies, but like Horry , he is a guy that ALWAYS comes up big when it matters. The typical intangibles guy. And it's about time he gets some common courtesy. He is a winner. And some of you have too short friggin' memories to appreciate what he brings to the table.

Then don't watch.

JK :p

The way I see it, Fisher does have his occasional big shots in the postseason, but throughout the game he's out there struggling on D and chucking up shots. Now you can say he has an occasional big moment in the playoff but at the same time he does somethings to hurt the team. It depends on how you see it really, you can outweigh all the negatives with the 1 positive or vice versa.

As a Laker fan I can tell you he's very damn appreciated, but sometimes you just have to vent when Fisher's out there playing horrible.

Every fan does it. It's called frustration.

michelangelo
04-22-2010, 01:12 AM
Actually, his teammates have been saying this his entire career. And phil jax has been saying the same as long as he's coached Bryant.

Gasol's been pretty low-key with his complaints but he's upset about his touches too. I'm sure Bynum, Artest, heck the entire team is ticked.

Kobe will never change.


Everyone including REAL Laker fans (not Kobe fans) has been saying this all year. The Kobe fans make excuses, the Laker fans face reality. Whether he's hurt he not, he needs to shoot less. His presence alone requires very tight D (often a double-team), so he doesn't need to shoot all the time. Plus, he has Odom off the bench, Bynum in the paint.. And that Gasol guy is pretty damn good!

Hey Man
04-22-2010, 01:22 AM
Then don't watch

JayW_1023
04-22-2010, 01:22 AM
Then don't watch.

JK :p

The way I see it, Fisher does have his occasional big shots in the postseason, but throughout the game he's out there struggling on D and chucking up shots. Now you can say he has an occasional big moment in the playoff but at the same time he does somethings to hurt the team. It depends on how you see it really, you can outweigh all the negatives with the 1 positive or vice versa.

As a Laker fan I can tell you he's very damn appreciated, but sometimes you just have to vent when Fisher's out there playing horrible.

Every fan does it. It's called frustration.

I understand. When a player on your team plays horrible you hate them for the time being. I didn't say Fisher didn't have his deficiencies. But he isn't the type who takes nights off either. And he does alot of little things that don't show up on the stat sheet.

I do like how Shannon Brown has been playing lately. That defensive sequence on James Harden was painful to watch...Harden is bigger and stronger...but Shannon still made him look like a puny rookie kid on that play. That impressed me

Still, I prefer the steady hand of Fisher over the flashiness of Brown. As for Farmar, he is too mistake prone to rely on for long stretches. In short spurts he can make plays however. Fisher is a smart veteran guy who just knows the game...not the most talented guy, but a hard worker who is a leader on the floor.

ARMIN12NBA
04-22-2010, 02:07 AM
I'm fumbled by the continuing disrespect Laker fans give Derek Fisher, even after all the huge shots he has hit to bail the Lakers out. Derek Fisher has been just as instrumental to Kobe's success as an individual player, because no player in the NBA knows Kobe's game better.

Sure, Fisher has his deficiencies, but like Horry , he is a guy that ALWAYS comes up big when it matters. The typical intangibles guy. And it's about time he gets some common courtesy. He is a winner. And some of you have too short friggin' memories to appreciate what he brings to the table.

I am sorry, but you simply have not watched enough of Fisher the past two seasons.

He is one of the worst players in the NBA. He can't shoot. He can't defend. He can't pass. He makes horrible decisions (in the half court and especially in the open court).

Fisher has this legend and myth about him that he always comes up big when it matters. As a person who hasn't missed a single Lakers game in the past two seasons, I can tell you that for every big shot he makes, he has missed about 10.

Fisher is the most overrated player I have ever seen. Heck, if you are a stat junkie, then check his PER. It is the lowest for any starter. Check his opponent PER. It is incredibly high. Check the PER difference (own and opp. PER), it is the absolute WORST in the NBA.

Fisher brings nothing to the table positively except for the intangible aspect called leadership (which we can't prove). And leadership can be done as an assistant coach!

ARMIN12NBA
04-22-2010, 02:09 AM
Still, I prefer the steady hand of Fisher over the flashiness of Brown. As for Farmar, he is too mistake prone to rely on for long stretches. In short spurts he can make plays however. Fisher is a smart veteran guy who just knows the game...not the most talented guy, but a hard worker who is a leader on the floor.

How is Fisher, at all, steady?

Fisher may be a veteran, but he is not smart. He is one of the dumbest players I have ever seen play the game of basketball.

FOBolous
04-23-2010, 10:26 AM
Gasol is stepping up. Bynum isn't healthy. Odom has never been consistent. Artest's hands are just as ****ed up as Kobe's and he was wholly criticized by Rockets fans as being a bad shooter and chucker.

All-star team? Only Gasol has been to an all-star game of the bunch in the past 5 years.

Ultimately, Kobe continues to give them great looks. He really does. Fisher just sucks. Farmar and Brown have never been shooters. Artest has never been a shooter and is banged up. Bynum and Odom are having a rough time against OKC's brilliant interior defense.

But just go ahead and blame Kobe for whatever reason you blame him for. Handling the ball too much? LOL. That is hilarious because the guy goes through the Triangle motions better than anybody on the team and is always doing his job in terms of off the ball work. In fact, a lot of his work is off the ball and on the other side of the court (creating a diversion to the Triangle set up on the opposite side).

i will. compare how many shot attemts he has to all the other players. 10 of 29? that's horrible. Gasol only got 12 attempts, Artest only 10, and Bynum only. c'mon now. i can understand if he was hot but none of his shots were dropping. he needs to pass and stop being such a ball hog. He's a big reason why LA lost last night.

FOBolous
04-23-2010, 10:27 AM
Then don't watch

that's the best response you can come up with? wow. pathetic. i come up with a bunch of good points, you can't come up with anything...so you respond with a simple "don't watch?" pitiful.

Brooklyn Mets
04-23-2010, 10:39 AM
you cant tell the (arguably) best player in basketball to shoot less.. maybe to take better percentage shots but not to shoot less..

celtisox41
04-23-2010, 10:39 AM
so you're saying all the championships he has won has not won any respect from you? Who are you kidding? you gotta have talent to win the NBA, especially now that the best teams have 2-3 all-star players on them.

GMs would want Phil Jackson to come coach their team, but what coach would want to come coach a scrub team? a desperate one. and Phil isn't desperate and he's a legend. He's made the right decisions in coaching Chicago with MJ and coach in LA.

He became a legend because of jordan and kobe kept him going. He couldn't even outcoach doc rivers, he has no coaching ability whatsoever

celtisox41
04-23-2010, 10:41 AM
haha and Auerbach didn't have an all-star team
:rolleyes:

Auerbach actually drafted his own stars, jackson is handed them and leaves when he doesn't have them :clap:

celtisox41
04-23-2010, 10:43 AM
he's been blessed with talent yes but neither the lakers nor the bulls won until phil was the coach.

i think there are a lot of coaches that can coach the hell out of guys and make them play to a higher potential. i also think there are some guys who are good at making a collection of talent/egos gel. you can't disregard that just because of circumstance, 10 championship teams is not an accident. id liken his style to torre w/ the yankees.

Its true, neither of them did anything

G-Funk
04-23-2010, 10:50 AM
^ Docl Rivers Aint **** without Pierce, Ray and Garnett

Avenged
04-23-2010, 10:52 AM
i will. compare how many shot attemts he has to all the other players. 10 of 29? that's horrible. Gasol only got 12 attempts, Artest only 10, and Bynum only. c'mon now. i can understand if he was hot but none of his shots were dropping. he needs to pass and stop being such a ball hog. He's a big reason why LA lost last night.

I think Kobe played a good game until the 4th actually. Kobe was the reason L.A was up, he was dishing it out and his shots were falling. When OKC seemed to go on a run, Kobe was out there to immediately silence them. When Phil Jackson took Kobe out of the game in the 3rd quarter, OKC went on a run and got the lead.

It wasn't until the 4th when Kobe decided to keep shooting over Durant when his shot wasn't falling. Once he "realized" it, it was too late and started passing it out to his teammates which they actually made.

bbcmillionaire
04-23-2010, 11:00 AM
i wonder if he ever told mike this..............NOPE lol or even pippen

Chronz
04-23-2010, 11:15 AM
^ Docl Rivers Aint **** without Pierce, Ray and Garnett

You do realize hes won COY before them right?

Avenged
04-23-2010, 11:21 AM
You do realize hes won COY before them right?

That award isn't much of an accomplishment.

I mean Sam Mitchell won COY and where is he at now?

tdunk21
04-23-2010, 11:53 AM
You do realize hes won COY before them right?

avery johnson and mike d'antoni won it and where are they now....

td0tsfinest
04-23-2010, 11:57 AM
avery johnson and mike d'antoni won it and where are they now....

D'antoni is in New York.

Chronz
04-23-2010, 12:09 PM
avery johnson and mike d'antoni won it and where are they now....

One is analyzing the game for the general public, the other is still coaching. A better response would be citing that Jerry Sloan has never won it or something.

Chronz
04-23-2010, 12:11 PM
That award isn't much of an accomplishment.

I mean Sam Mitchell won COY and where is he at now?
Getting into fights somewhere

Rivers won it for getting a team with bums all playing for their contracts within a game of the playoffs.

Jahari Kavi
04-23-2010, 12:17 PM
just because a coach gets fired doesn't make them a bad coach

G-Funk
04-23-2010, 12:27 PM
You do realize hes won COY before them right?

COY is the most overrated award.

Toenail Clipper
04-23-2010, 12:36 PM
24 attempts for 22 points is terrible

tredigs
04-23-2010, 12:50 PM
24 attempts for 22 points is terrible

Do you mean 29 attempts for 24 points? ie. Kobe in game 3? Durant completely shut him down in the 4th quarter, that was impressive.

Avenged
04-23-2010, 01:27 PM
Do you mean 29 attempts for 24 points? ie. Kobe in game 3? Durant completely shut him down in the 4th quarter, that was impressive.

Kobe had himself a good game until the 4th quarter came a long.

Avenged
04-23-2010, 01:29 PM
just because a coach gets fired doesn't make them a bad coach

10 rings doesn't make Phil a bad coach.