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Max Power
04-18-2010, 07:36 PM
The season is only two weeks old but already Cubs manager Lou Piniella is looking for something new.

"We're going to change this lineup around and see if we can spur this offense on a little bit," Piniella said after Houston lefty Wandy Rodriguez limited the Cubs to two runs in seven innings.

The new leadoff hitter will be Marlon Byrd with Jeff Baker moving to second. Xavier Nady will bat cleanup, Geovany Soto to seventh and Ryan Theriot to eighth.

http://www.chicagobreakingsports.com/2010/04/two-weeks-in-lou-switching-up-cubs-lineup.html

I think they'll see three LHP against the Mets, so this is kind of a big deal.

CUBDOM4life
04-18-2010, 07:40 PM
I love how Lou waits to drop Theriot from leadoff till we start facing LHP.

Nady at cleanup? I'd prefer 5th or 6th but whatever.

Jilly Bohnson
04-18-2010, 07:40 PM
:laugh2:

The past 3 years Theriot has hit .299/.377/.415 against lefties and .282/.346/.342 against righties. And yet he's leading off against righties but hitting 8th against lefties. There aren't even words...

Max Power
04-18-2010, 07:51 PM
Nady at cleanup? I'd prefer 5th or 6th but whatever.

Sounds crazy, but I wouldn't mind if they tried Soriano 4, between Lee and Ramirez vs LHP. At least for a little while.


:laugh2:

The past 3 years Theriot has hit .299/.377/.415 against lefties and .282/.346/.342 against righties. And yet he's leading off against righties but hitting 8th against lefties. There aren't even words...

It does sound backwardass, we'll see Tuesday against Pelfrey if he's out of the leadoff for good.

Doogolas
04-18-2010, 07:53 PM
:laugh: That is ****ing ridiculous.

Plus, over the last two seasons Byrd has been better vs RHP than LHP.

gocubs2118
04-18-2010, 08:02 PM
This **** is so backwards.

DamnGoat
04-18-2010, 08:05 PM
I like having Baker bat 2nd, but other than that I'm not too crazy about these lineup changes. Byrd is hot right now, but is not really a good fit in the leadoff spot and batting Nady cleanup means we get to see Colvin batting cleanup when he replaces him in the 8th inning in a 1-2 run game...awesome.

gocubs2118
04-18-2010, 08:07 PM
At least Soto is movin on up.

Mell413
04-18-2010, 08:08 PM
I didn't mind the idea of Theriot hitting leadoff vs LHP. I do like the idea of moving Soto up in the order though.

Milnertime
04-18-2010, 08:09 PM
:laugh:

Seriously, the only thing I can do is laugh about how terrible Lou's lineup construction is.

I don't think it will matter either way since if the whole team doesn't hit it doesn't really matter where they bat, but if they do start to hit, this could be one of the worst ways to line them up possible. Byrd is pretty much terrible at getting on base compared to other options out there. If Lou's going to move away from speed at the top he may as well have Geo leadoff since he can take a ****ing walk.

jiggin
04-18-2010, 08:13 PM
:laugh2:

The past 3 years Theriot has hit .299/.377/.415 against lefties and .282/.346/.342 against righties. And yet he's leading off against righties but hitting 8th against lefties. There aren't even words...

those numbers are very close for a 3 year average. only major difference is slugging.

I think player vs pitcher matchup averages over 3+ years are more important, but that is just me. I try not to let stats alone drive my desire to see the best lineup for the cubs since there are several other factors.

PS - when a team struggles at the plate, thinking outside the box is EXACTLY what needs to happen. Little early to be thinking this way in my opinion since the season is so young...but whatever. Cubs want to get a good start and to be honest, that hasn't happened...so, there are in change things up mode to try and get things going.

Milnertime
04-18-2010, 08:37 PM
LOL...anyone just see that awesome throw by Wainwright?

Mell413
04-18-2010, 08:39 PM
LOL...anyone just see that awesome throw by Wainwright?

Yeah. I Lol'd watching that.

Str1fe5
04-18-2010, 08:53 PM
those numbers are very close for a 3 year average. only major difference is slugging.

I think player vs pitcher matchup averages over 3+ years are more important, but that is just me. I try not to let stats alone drive my desire to see the best lineup for the cubs since there are several other factors.

PS - when a team struggles at the plate, thinking outside the box is EXACTLY what needs to happen. Little early to be thinking this way in my opinion since the season is so young...but whatever. Cubs want to get a good start and to be honest, that hasn't happened...so, there are in change things up mode to try and get things going.

there's thinking outside the box, and then there's being impatient and just making **** up as you go along.

The difference between Ryan Theriot vs RHP and vs Ryan Theriot vs LHP is not similar at all. Its night and day. I'm really not trying to sound like an *** here, but its a sub .700 OPS vs an .805 OPS. Its a .310 wOBA vs a .360 wOBA. Numbers don't tell you absolutely everything, but when the numbers are that drastic the context and nuances don't matter. Ryan Theriot is barely a replacement level hitter vs RHP and he's very very good vs LHP. There hasn't been a single year that he's started where the difference hasn't been stark.

Its also not hard to see that Marlon Byrd isn't a very good option to lead off, either, given that its a competition between him and Soriano for who is likely to have the lowest OBP vs LHP out of the everyday options.

Flipping Rammy and Nady in the order vs LHP is fine, moving Soto up higher in the order is a good move, hell, moving Theriot out of the lead off spot isn't a terrible idea, even though he's good vs LHP he's still probably the 2nd worst hitter of the regular options overall. The problem is that Byrd is the worst hitter vs LHP out of the regular options. That's how much this team should crush LHP. Every regular but Byrd has a career OPS of .800 or higher vs LHP.

jiggin
04-18-2010, 09:12 PM
so...should soriano be leading off then, doesn't he have a better OPS over his career than most cubs against LHP as a RHB? I know he does in the leadoff spot over his career.

Str1fe5
04-18-2010, 09:44 PM
so...should soriano be leading off then, doesn't he have a better OPS over his career than most cubs against LHP as a RHB? I know he does in the leadoff spot over his career.

over byrd? yeah i'd probably do it. over theriot? that's a little tougher because of how high theriot's OBP is vs LHP, but I wouldn't have a problem with it, assuming he's normal .850-.875 OPS Soriano.

ty_smitty21
04-18-2010, 10:06 PM
Lou always overreacts to things. We just faced Oswalt and Wandy with the wind blowing in. We just need to hit better with the right lineup in place. soto moving up makes sense.. that's about it.

Of course, sometimes a little lineup shakeup gets it going for a struggling offense.. but this is still a pretty stupid idea.

NORTH10
04-18-2010, 10:07 PM
How long will this one last...

Yagyu+
04-18-2010, 10:07 PM
The new leadoff hitter will be Marlon Byrd with Jeff Baker moving to second. Xavier Nady will bat cleanup, Geovany Soto to seventh and Ryan Theriot to eighth.

These words pulsed when I tried to read them. Blood all dripping from the moulding in my room. Grizzly bear rug all coming to life and swearing revenge.

Then the camera zoomed in on my sweating brow and wide eyes as they rolled up in my skull and I disappeared into a spinning black and white spiral.

******* Bizarro Lou. Broke Time and Space with that lineup.

Ron!n
04-19-2010, 02:51 AM
:laugh2:

I still hate Lou for bringing in Koyie Hill yesterday so another stupid lineup move isnt unexpected.

cowboydoc45
04-19-2010, 08:45 AM
How long will this one last...

Hopefully, not long...

Lou, if you read this board (and I know you do... you just don't listen :rolleyes:) here is what your lineup should look like vs. LHP

1. Theriot
2. Baker
3. Lee
4. Ramierez
5. Byrd
6. Soriano
7. Nady
8. Soto
9. Pitcher

if you have to do something drastic, try this vs LHP

1. Soriano
2. Baker
3. Lee
4. Ramierez
5. Byrd
6. Nady
7. Soto
8. Theriot
9. Pitcher

chicub
04-19-2010, 10:07 AM
I personally like:

1. Soriano
2. Byrd
3. Lee
4. Ramirez
5. Nady
6. Soto
7. Baker
8. Theriot
9. Pitcher

Vandelay16
04-19-2010, 10:16 AM
So the lineup today could look like this

1.Byrd
2.Baker
3.Lee
4.Nady
5.Ramirez
6.Soriano
7.Soto
8.Theriot
9.Pitcher

:facepalm:

cowboydoc45
04-19-2010, 10:17 AM
So the lineup today could look like this

1.Byrd
2.Baker
3.Lee
4.Nady
5.Ramirez
6.Soriano
7.Soto
8.Theriot
9.Pitcher

:facepalm:

could, and probably will. Hopefully, Lou realizes this isn't the fix after this game, and goes back to the original (still better than this)

jdgrabo
04-19-2010, 03:18 PM
I don't mind Byrd and Baker 1-2, although I'd hit them Baker/Byrd.

Move Soto up to 5 or 6 and see what he can do.

Baker
Byrd
Lee
Ramirez
Soto
Nady (can he play OF regularly with his arm?)
Soriano
Theriot
P

WrigleyWonder
04-19-2010, 03:49 PM
It's probably just a simple change for the betterment of the current roster, but Chicago Cubs manager Lou Piniella has made an adjustment to the batting order versus left-handed pitching, reported ESPNChicago.com's Bruce Levine Sunday night.

Ryan Theriot will now bat eighth versus southpaws thanks to his 1-for-10 performance against them this season -- despite being a right-handed batter -- with Marlon Byrd getting the leadoff duties. The move may hurt Byrd's fantasy value, as he'll have fewer chances to drive in runs, but we can't help but thinking about Theriot's job security after his slow start.

He's hitting .223/.273/.255 overall and top prospect Starling Castro is lighting the world on fire in Double-A Tennessee, including a nine-game hitting streak. The 20-year-old is 9-for-24 during the streak, including two doubles and a triple.

He's hitting .357/.378/.548 in nine games, and has four stolen bases, too.

-- ESPN.com

Tehjosha
04-19-2010, 04:51 PM
So we really move Theriot out of the top spot against LHP, where he is actually fairly good, and drop him to the bottom, in place of Byrd? Really?

:facepalm: Lou