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View Full Version : How can the Cubs get through 5 more years of Soriano?



Tabou71
04-15-2010, 07:37 PM
It's a question the Cubs don't like being asked, mostly because they can't provide an answer.

What are they going to do with Alfonso Soriano(notes) for the next five seasons?

The Cubs have tolerated his poor defense in left field because Soriano is supposed to produce at the plate.

But now his offensive production has dropped to the defensive levels that saw him drop this key fly ball in Cincinnati on Sunday and misplay another two against Milwaukee on Wednesday.

Soriano's value to the team has plummeted so much that the Cubs are alrady yanking him late in games for a defensive replacement and manager Lou Piniella has decided to consider all five of his outfielders when configuring his daily lineup.

The left fielder was also booed by the fans at Wrigley Field when he was removed from the game during a double-switch in the seventh inning.

It has gotten so bad that it's possible the Cubs have resorted threatening Soriano about his playing time or are at least might be trying to motivate him by leaking threats through the media.

From the Arlington Heights Daily Herald:

A Cubs source says Soriano has been put on notice that he must show something of value at the plate and in the field soon.

Or else.

The source isn't named and Soriano says this is the first he's heard of it. Piniella has denied it flatly. And what does "or else" mean, exactly?

He's under contract at $18 million a season until 2014. He is Oscar Madison to the Cubs' Felix Unger. They're stuck with each other and driving each other crazy.

So what are the Cubs options, other than petitioning the league for a 26-man roster?

Even in his prime, Soriano always struck out too much, didn't walk enough and other than a strong arm has played poorly on defense no matter his position. At age 34, his skills seem to be declining. He's often banged up. He admits to lapses in confidence.

But the Cubs don't have many choices here because, among other reasons:

He's already been moved off his "natural" infield positions.

There's no place better to hide his glove than left other than maybe first base and Derrek Lee(notes) will be playing there through at least the end of this season (and more if he signs a new contract).

There's no DH in the National League.

Considering he's owed nearly $90 million on his contract, there can't be much of a trade market for him. The Cubs can't afford to eat the whole contract, either.

So unless he starts taking organ lessons or styles himself as the broadcasting heir to Harry Caray's legacy, the truth is that the Cubs and Alfonso Soriano are married until the contract expires. It's going to be five very long years watching from those left field bleachers.

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/blog/big_league_stew/post/How-can-the-Cubs-get-through-five-more-years-of-;_ylt=Aq5wSIiQjXug.9aTZlGywUERvLYF?urn=mlb,234268

gocubs2118
04-15-2010, 07:38 PM
Lots of :drunk:

Cub_StuckinSTL
04-15-2010, 08:02 PM
Why focus on the negatives? Hell we should be happy that this year we have 5 OF that can play and get the job done. Am I happy with soriano? No. But the concern should be held a little more on our BP and our starting 5 staying healthy

WrigleyRiot26
04-15-2010, 08:23 PM
Were going to bring him to the fountain of youth....its the only way

semperfi
04-15-2010, 08:26 PM
Were going to bring him to the fountain of youth....its the only way

Yeah, it's located right next to the fountain of how to lay off a breaking ball low and away.

WrigleyRiot26
04-15-2010, 08:28 PM
Yeah, it's located right next to the fountain of how to lay off a breaking ball low and away.

Which is right around the corner from the fountian of basics of catching a fly ball.

semperfi
04-15-2010, 08:33 PM
Which is right around the corner from the fountian of basics of catching a fly ball.

Touche.

cheerio
04-15-2010, 09:04 PM
Lots of :drunk:

yup

Milnertime
04-16-2010, 01:38 AM
I'm more worried about how we can get through 5 more years of people *****ing and overreacting about Soriano.

It's 10 games, people. He's only started 8 of those and he's only had 29 plate appearances. It's no surprise that he's a streaky hitter and this isn't the first time he's struggled for a week.

Silent
04-16-2010, 01:44 AM
i have a friend at wrigley and he told me soriano has 2 moths to get his **** togother if not by by sori

redwhitenblue
04-16-2010, 01:52 AM
i have a friend at wrigley and he told me soriano has 2 moths to get his **** togother if not by by sori
Really? Did the beer vendor tell you how he got the inside information?

EJS2590
04-16-2010, 02:11 AM
Really? Did the beer vendor tell you how he got the inside information?

hahahahaha :clap:

redwhitenblue
04-16-2010, 02:13 AM
hahahahaha :clap:
Seriously, what are they going to do. Take the sunk cost? Try to trade a potentially game-changing player for penny's on the dollar. If they tried to trade him they'd have to eat a HUGE portion of the contract anyways. Or maybe they'll just demote him to AAA.

Hawkize31
04-16-2010, 02:15 AM
i have a friend at wrigley and he told me soriano has 2 moths to get his **** togother if not by by sori

Lol. My grandpa thinks Brian Urlacher should play tight end, as long as we are sharing opinions of unnamed people whose opinions don't matter.

I don't think theres anything we can do about Soriano. We knew it was a long contract and we figured that the Soriano at the end of the contract would be worse than the Soriano at the beginning, but I don't think anyone thought we would see this big of a drop-off in production this fast. This guy used to be able to flat out carry a team, and now, I'm literally surprised when he gets a HR. I just don't expect big things out of him like I used to.

redwhitenblue
04-16-2010, 02:22 AM
Lol. My grandpa thinks Brian Urlacher should play tight end, as long as we are sharing opinions of unnamed people whose opinions don't matter.

I don't think theres anything we can do about Soriano. We knew it was a long contract and we figured that the Soriano at the end of the contract would be worse than the Soriano at the beginning, but I don't think anyone thought we would see this big of a drop-off in production this fast. This guy used to be able to flat out carry a team, and now, I'm literally surprised when he gets a HR. I just don't expect big things out of him like I used to.
That's partially personal expectations.

I mean, it's not like Soriano hasn't gone through slumps. It's his MO to have weeks of poor production followed by a hot week or 2.

Hawkize31
04-16-2010, 02:25 AM
That's partially personal expectations.

I mean, it's not like Soriano hasn't gone through slumps. It's his MO to have weeks of poor production followed by a hot week or 2.

Definitely. I hope I'm wrong, but I don't think his hot stretches are as long or as dominant anymore, and it seems like the slumps last forever. At least they thats how it was last year. Maybe hes healthy now and will return to superstar form for stretches.

Silent
04-16-2010, 02:49 AM
Really? Did the beer vendor tell you how he got the inside information?

your just a ******* your not even funny. wait and see

Milnertime
04-16-2010, 02:52 AM
Soriano, who has been taking early-morning practice in the field with outfield coach Mike Quade, as well as extra hitting, came off the bench in the sixth inning Thursday and drew a two-out walk to load the bases, the Chicago Sun-Times reports.
Spin:
The crowd is on his case, and his defense is suspect, but Soriano is trying hard and saying all the right things. Moreover, manager Lou Pineilla appreciates the effort and will continue to stick with him 5-6 times per week, even if he does remove him for late-inning defense in close games.

That was on the ESPN fantasy league home page, which I can't link, but it's there.

It shows that he's actually trying to improve, despite what a lot of fans probably think of him. He's not lazy, he actually cares about how well he does. He obviously wants to win. He's also a class act....AKA not a douchebag, which is a plus.

Milnertime
04-16-2010, 02:55 AM
Why is it so hard for people to write properly? I mean, I'm not saying that I use perfect grammar on here but I can damn sure tell you the difference between your and you're.

When you don't have a basic grasp on your own language, it makes you not only look like a *******, but also lends little credibility to your opinion.


And "what and see?" Really?

duce5858
04-16-2010, 03:06 AM
That's partially personal expectations.

I mean, it's not like Soriano hasn't gone through slumps. It's his MO to have weeks of poor production followed by a hot week or 2.

I vote we just pay him to sit in the DR year round... If he goes through one of his patented hot weeks thats great, in the meantime he is costing us ballgames as being perhaps the worst defensive outfielder in the game. Adam Dunn is the only other choice that comes to mind for me for that title.

Ron!n
04-16-2010, 03:38 AM
Soriano, who has been taking early-morning practice in the field with outfield coach Mike Quade, as well as extra hitting, came off the bench in the sixth inning Thursday and drew a two-out walk to load the bases, the Chicago Sun-Times reports.
Spin:
The crowd is on his case, and his defense is suspect, but Soriano is trying hard and saying all the right things. Moreover, manager Lou Pineilla appreciates the effort and will continue to stick with him 5-6 times per week, even if he does remove him for late-inning defense in close games.

That was on the ESPN fantasy league home page, which I can't link, but it's there.

It shows that he's actually trying to improve, despite what a lot of fans probably think of him. He's not lazy, he actually cares about how well he does. He obviously wants to win. He's also a class act....AKA not a douchebag, which is a plus.
Exactly, all the Soriano bashing and he still goes out and tries his hardest and even says it his fault he gets booed.

Thats class, not like certain other players around the league.

DamnGoat
04-16-2010, 03:43 AM
If he can still hit then I don't really care how bad he is in the field (he's always been crappy there anyway).

I'm much more concerned about our terrible bullpen than our streaky LF.

Mell413
04-16-2010, 10:20 AM
I'm not going to panic yet. His contract is bad and I think most if not everyone on here would agree with that. I think the team can work around the situation though. We do have an improving farm system so that should help the payroll situation. Brett Jackson is not too far away. We also have Marlon Byrd signed for 2 more years after this and he's not making a ton of money. I think Burke has a chance to play in the majors as well.

The situation is not ideal, but I think they can work around it. They may be able to draft someone like Brentz this year as well. I know it's not quite like basketball, but I think there is the possibility that Soriano's deal could have some trade value when it's an expiring deal. David Kaplan on CTL said he thinks that the Cubs are going to release him within 12 months. Take that for whatever it's worth. I don't see that happening. That would be a huge financial blow to the team.

semperfi
04-16-2010, 10:34 AM
Exactly, all the Soriano bashing and he still goes out and tries his hardest and even says it his fault he gets booed.

Thats class, not like certain other players around the league.

That's very true. Soriano has over 100 million reasons why not to talk bad about the fans.

CubbieSteve
04-16-2010, 11:07 AM
Well hopefully by 2014 there will be DH's in the National League.


Seriously though, his contract is horrendous and we're gonna have to deal with it.

ggross
04-16-2010, 11:16 AM
We've got five years, My brain hurts a lot,
We've got five years, That's all we've got!
We've got five years!

This thread reminds me of that David Bowie song. (no, I'm not gay).

semperfi
04-16-2010, 11:19 AM
I found the tool of how to get through the years.

TOOL PICTURE (http://gadgetophilia.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/t10neuralizer.jpg)

its still early
04-16-2010, 11:20 AM
I'm not going to panic yet. His contract is bad and I think most if not everyone on here would agree with that. I think the team can work around the situation though. We do have an improving farm system so that should help the payroll situation. Brett Jackson is not too far away. We also have Marlon Byrd signed for 2 more years after this and he's not making a ton of money. I think Burke has a chance to play in the majors as well.

The situation is not ideal, but I think they can work around it. They may be able to draft someone like Brentz this year as well. I know it's not quite like basketball, but I think there is the possibility that Soriano's deal could have some trade value when it's an expiring deal. David Kaplan on CTL said he thinks that the Cubs are going to release him within 12 months. Take that for whatever it's worth. I don't see that happening. That would be a huge financial blow to the team.

:facepalm: david kaplan is a complete moron. he makes chicago tribune live almost unbearable to watch. his job on the show is to be a facilitator of conversation, yet all he seems to do is opine and masquerade as an expert. i would not put it past him to blame the next natural disaster on alfonso soriano and his contract. he is most definitely not "fan's best friend". if i could muzzle any two chicago sports media figures, he and phil rogers would never be heard from again.

ReJo
04-16-2010, 11:22 AM
He's still only 34 years old and I really don't think his skills are declining just yet. He's battled some injury problems the last couple of years which led to his decrease in production. It's only 2 weeks into the season and he had a pretty good series vs Milwaukee and when it is all said and done if he stays healthy he will have a good year like always.
No need to start overreacting and release him and eat $100 million dollars. He can still be a productive player for years to come. Maybe his last year or two he will be a very expensive bench player but we have enough money coming off the books between then that it really wont hurt too much.

Mell413
04-16-2010, 11:25 AM
:facepalm: david kaplan is a complete moron. he makes chicago tribune live almost unbearable to watch. his job on the show is to be a facilitator of conversation, yet all he seems to do is opine and masquerade as an expert. i would not put it past him to blame the next natural disaster on alfonso soriano and his contract. he is most definitely not "fan's best friend". if i could muzzle any two chicago sports media figures, he and phil rogers would never be heard from again.

I don't care for him much myself. I even said I don't agree with him about the Cubs eating the deal. I can see it maybe in 2013, but not yet. I just thought it was worth mentioning. Rob Neyer believes the Cubs will eat the deal at some point as well.

its still early
04-16-2010, 11:29 AM
I don't care for him much myself. I even said I don't agree with him about the Cubs eating the deal. I can see it maybe in 2013, but not yet. I just thought it was worth mentioning. Rob Neyer believes the Cubs will eat the deal at some point as well.

oh i didn't mean for my last post to sound like you were in agreement with him. i apologize if it came off that way. i also agree that if they do eat the contract, it would not be until closer to 2013. i just needed to vent my dislike of kaplan.

ggross
04-16-2010, 11:30 AM
I don't care for him much myself. I even said I don't agree with him about the Cubs eating the deal. I can see it maybe in 2013, but not yet. I just thought it was worth mentioning. Rob Neyer believes the Cubs will eat the deal at some point as well.

I like Kaplan a lot. Heck, at least he's a Cubs fan - you can't question that. He's very opinionated for sure, and I don't always agree with him, but I like his enthusiasm for the Cubs (Bulls and Bears too). I would much rather watch his show than one hosted by a Sox fan.

Jerry34
04-16-2010, 11:32 AM
There's no place better to hide his glove than left other than maybe first base and Derrek Lee(notes) will be playing there through at least the end of this season (and more if he signs a new contract).

I think people underestimate how hard it is to play first base. I'm not saying it's like being a catcher or shortstop, but you wouldn't be able to "hide" Sori at first. He would be found pretty quick.

semperfi
04-16-2010, 11:34 AM
He's still only 34 years old and I really don't think his skills are declining just yet. He's battled some injury problems the last couple of years which led to his decrease in production. It's only 2 weeks into the season and he had a pretty good series vs Milwaukee and when it is all said and done if he stays healthy he will have a good year like always.
No need to start overreacting and release him and eat $100 million dollars. He can still be a productive player for years to come. Maybe his last year or two he will be a very expensive bench player but we have enough money coming off the books between then that it really wont hurt too much.

Seems like denial to me. Many times fans need to step back and take a look at the bigger picture. Soriano is on his way down. His bat speed is slowing and his legs are gone.

ReJo
04-16-2010, 11:38 AM
Seems like denial to me. Many times fans need to step back and take a look at the bigger picture. Soriano is on his way down. His bat speed is slowing and his legs are gone.

link?
Where do you find this information? do they post bat speeds and 40 times anywhere?

Jerry34
04-16-2010, 11:39 AM
I like Kaplan a lot. Heck, at least he's a Cubs fan - you can't question that. He's very opinionated for sure, and I don't always agree with him, but I like his enthusiasm for the Cubs (Bulls and Bears too). I would much rather watch his show than one hosted by a Sox fan.

He's kind of an annoying Cubs fan though. He was calling Sori "Suckiano" all last season. He's likes to beat a bad joke to death. When I go to a Cubs game and have some moron booing the entire roster sitting behind me I can thank media members like Kaplan for that.

its still early
04-16-2010, 11:39 AM
link?
Where do you find this information? do they post bat speeds and 40 times anywhere?

link: www.david/kaplans_mouth.com

Mell413
04-16-2010, 11:42 AM
I like Kaplan a lot. Heck, at least he's a Cubs fan - you can't question that. He's very opinionated for sure, and I don't always agree with him, but I like his enthusiasm for the Cubs (Bulls and Bears too). I would much rather watch his show than one hosted by a Sox fan.

I probably should have said I don't care much for his opinion on certain matters. I have no reason to be against Kaplan the guy. You can definitely see the passion he has for Chicago sports teams.

semperfi
04-16-2010, 11:43 AM
link?
Where do you find this information? do they post bat speeds and 40 times anywhere?

I've read it on a website, let me try to find the link. And I didn't know we were at the NFL Combine, the only place where the 40 time matters.

And for my smart *** remark go here.
http://tinyurl.com/y4lns9p

semperfi
04-16-2010, 11:44 AM
link?
Where do you find this information? do they post bat speeds and 40 times anywhere?

http://www.fangraphs.com/fantasy/index.php/sorianos-slowing-lumber

Is fangraphs good enough for you? Or do you have a list of approved sites that you only follow.

ggross
04-16-2010, 11:49 AM
He's kind of an annoying Cubs fan though. He was calling Sori "Suckiano" all last season. He's likes to beat a bad joke to death. When I go to a Cubs game and have some moron booing the entire roster sitting behind me I can thank media members like Kaplan for that.

I watch him a couple times a week maybe, but I didn't hear him call Soriano Suckiano. Was he doing that on the air? That would be over the top. But even so, I would prefer that to all the Sox fan media who constantly bring up stuff about the goats, 102 years, etc.

Speaking of that, I saw where the owner of that building with that "Eamus Catuli" is being foreclosed on or something. I would personally like to tear that thing down (especially the display that shows the years since last division,pennant, & WS). It's an everyday reminder of the futility of the team that doesn't need to be in everyone's face. National TV games almost always spend a few minutes explaining the ****ing thing and laughing about it.

its still early
04-16-2010, 11:53 AM
http://www.fangraphs.com/fantasy/index.php/sorianos-slowing-lumber

Is fangraphs good enough for you? Or do you have a list of approved sites that you only follow.

it's good enough for me. and although i only skimmed the article, it didn't seem to speak to soriano's declining bat speed. foot speed, yes. what i gathered about his hitting was that pitchers are throwing him an increasing amount of sliders which he has proven to be a sucker for and cannot hit. he's just not getting the diet of fastballs that he needs to put up his typical numbers, which admittedly is a problem.

windycityD
04-16-2010, 12:02 PM
I watch him a couple times a week maybe, but I didn't hear him call Soriano Suckiano. Was he doing that on the air? That would be over the top. But even so, I would prefer that to all the Sox fan media who constantly bring up stuff about the goats, 102 years, etc.

Speaking of that, I saw where the owner of that building with that "Eamus Catuli" is being foreclosed on or something. I would personally like to tear that thing down (especially the display that shows the years since last division,pennant, & WS). It's an everyday reminder of the futility of the team that doesn't need to be in everyone's face. National TV games almost always spend a few minutes explaining the ****ing thing and laughing about it.

Winning a title tends to cure all that. Until that happens, we are the perpetually losing/ hard luck sports doormat of all time. It does not take the disappearance of Roman numerals for people to forget that one- media, fellow citizens of Chicago who know what a World Series and WS win looks like, or otherwise.

As far as Kaplan, he's no different that 98% of the other sports-related, media blowhards in this town. Zambrano is also a perpetual topic for him.

ReJo
04-16-2010, 12:03 PM
http://www.fangraphs.com/fantasy/index.php/sorianos-slowing-lumber

Is fangraphs good enough for you? Or do you have a list of approved sites that you only follow.

That arcticle is from back in November when Soriano was coming off an injury plagued season. Of course he is going to be slower playing with a bad knee for all of the season. And it will affect him at the plate as well.
Do you have anything more recent? like what his bat speed or how fast he can run right now?

semperfi
04-16-2010, 12:05 PM
That arcticle is from back in November when Soriano was coming off an injury plagued season. Of course he is going to be slower playing with a bad knee for all of the season. And it will affect him at the plate as well.
Do you have anything more recent? like what his bat speed or how fast he can run right now?

What? Two years of sub 5 speed score wasn't good enough for you? Ask anyone, there's no way he's as fast as he was in 07 right now. Definitely not coming off knee surgery.

Average Speed Score in MLB is a 5.

He switched to a light bat I heard. Probably to increase his bat speed.

ReJo
04-16-2010, 12:13 PM
What? Two years of sub 5 speed score wasn't good enough for you? Ask anyone, there's no way he's as fast as he was in 07 right now. Definitely not coming off knee surgery.

Average Speed Score in MLB is a 5

Depending on how his rehab went I would definitely expect him to be faster than last year.

semperfi
04-16-2010, 12:23 PM
Depending on how his rehab went I would definitely expect him to be faster than last year.

I would expect him to be right around where he was last year. If he healed really well, then a little above last year, and if there are lingering effects then I would think he'd be at or below last years.

zambo4president
04-16-2010, 12:24 PM
There's no ****ing way, 5 more years :PrefersHIV:

Jerry34
04-16-2010, 12:40 PM
I watch him a couple times a week maybe, but I didn't hear him call Soriano Suckiano. Was he doing that on the air? That would be over the top. But even so, I would prefer that to all the Sox fan media who constantly bring up stuff about the goats, 102 years, etc.

Speaking of that, I saw where the owner of that building with that "Eamus Catuli" is being foreclosed on or something. I would personally like to tear that thing down (especially the display that shows the years since last division,pennant, & WS). It's an everyday reminder of the futility of the team that doesn't need to be in everyone's face. National TV games almost always spend a few minutes explaining the ****ing thing and laughing about it.

Yeah, last year he was doing it for awhile. Just seemed unprofessional to me. Which I wouldn't care if Kappy was really funny but he's not and it just seemed lame.

WrigleyRiot26
04-16-2010, 01:43 PM
Why is it so hard for people to write properly? I mean, I'm not saying that I use perfect grammar on here but I can damn sure tell you the difference between your and you're.

When you don't have a basic grasp on your own language, it makes you not only look like a *******, but also lends little credibility to your opinion.


And "what and see?" Really?

...........obviously he didn't mean to say that.................?

WorldChamps1908
04-16-2010, 01:53 PM
Lots of :drunk:

:nod: THIS.

CUBDOM4life
04-16-2010, 02:02 PM
David Kaplan is only one small step above John Kruk. I'm confident he will never reach the Krukian level of fat stupid ignorance (nobody can) but he will always be the ****ing ****** who was given a TV show and a radio show he definitely doesn't deserve.

ggross
04-16-2010, 02:08 PM
Winning a title tends to cure all that. Until that happens, we are the perpetually losing/ hard luck sports doormat of all time. It does not take the disappearance of Roman numerals for people to forget that one- media, fellow citizens of Chicago who know what a World Series and WS win looks like, or otherwise.

As far as Kaplan, he's no different that 98% of the other sports-related, media blowhards in this town. Zambrano is also a perpetual topic for him.

Sure it doesn't, but to me it's another small part of the total weight on the teams back. This one is particularly symbolic because it's right in their faces everyday on that ****ing Eamus Catuli building. I think the pressure that's on this team will be greater and greater each time they make the playoffs or are contending for a spot. Like none other in sports maybe. I don't think the playoff sweeps of 2007 and 2008 are the result of a crapshoot so much. The fact that they were outscored 36 to 12 those 2 years, couldn't throw strikes against the Dodgers and imploded in the field (like they did in 2003) might have been the result of some of that pressure and weight on them. My point is that I think **** like the Eamus Catuli building just make things harder on the players. And I am NOT saying it's all because of that one sign either.

Captain Obvious
04-16-2010, 04:36 PM
What? Two years of sub 5 speed score wasn't good enough for you? Ask anyone, there's no way he's as fast as he was in 07 right now. Definitely not coming off knee surgery.

Average Speed Score in MLB is a 5.

He switched to a light bat I heard. Probably to increase his bat speed.

I heard that the Ricketts are black.

Doogolas
04-16-2010, 04:43 PM
He didn't switch to a light bat. He still uses the same heavy as hell bat Semperfi.

ReJo
04-16-2010, 04:51 PM
Another solid game from Soriano(yes one near base running blunder but got bailed out)
Some people need to stop overreacting he's still a good player.

ty_smitty21
04-16-2010, 04:51 PM
soriano with 2 more hits today.. average up to .258 already. You'd think the guy was hitting what Milton Bradley is hitting right now in seattle by how the fans are treating him. We get it.. he's overpaid. We get it.. he's past his prime. Let's cheer for the guy, and enjoy watching the depth we have in the outfield this year. IF we can figure the bullpen out, we're going to be a good team.

redwhitenblue
04-16-2010, 04:52 PM
Another solid game from Soriano(yes one near base running blunder but got bailed out)
Some people need to stop overreacting he's still a good player.
It wasn't a blunder, and what "bailed him out" was his own speed.

He beat the throw, it was a smart baserunning move.

Doogolas
04-16-2010, 04:59 PM
It wasn't a blunder, and what "bailed him out" was his own speed.

He beat the throw, it was a smart baserunning move.

Exactly. Honestly, if nothing else he baited that throw to 2B. Did a quick fake back towards second, the MOMENT that ball was thrown he took off and stole third EASILY.

windycityD
04-16-2010, 05:01 PM
Sure it doesn't, but to me it's another small part of the total weight on the teams back. This one is particularly symbolic because it's right in their faces everyday on that ****ing Eamus Catuli building. I think the pressure that's on this team will be greater and greater each time they make the playoffs or are contending for a spot. Like none other in sports maybe. I don't think the playoff sweeps of 2007 and 2008 are the result of a crapshoot so much. The fact that they were outscored 36 to 12 those 2 years, couldn't throw strikes against the Dodgers and imploded in the field (like they did in 2003) might have been the result of some of that pressure and weight on them. My point is that I think **** like the Eamus Catuli building just make things harder on the players. And I am NOT saying it's all because of that one sign either.

Buildings & signs don't win or lose baseball games. Players and/ or managers do.

We were simply not that good in 2007 compared to Arizona. In 2008, we played tight, then didn't perform, plain and simple. Our reg season home stats that year, across the board, were otherworldly good. We had home field advantage. Where exactly did the pressure exist that year, going into the playoffs? It certainly wasn't outside the ballpark.

Doogolas
04-16-2010, 05:13 PM
I just want to point out that since the first game Soriano is hitting:

.296/.321/.500

:)

redwhitenblue
04-16-2010, 05:15 PM
I just want to point out that since the first game Soriano is hitting:

.296/.321/.500

:)
But the Astros are so bad that his numbers against them don't count.

semperfi
04-16-2010, 05:21 PM
Wait til the end of the year. Then talk all the trash you want. I hope he does well. But I just don't see it happening all year..

redwhitenblue
04-16-2010, 05:22 PM
Wait til the end of the year. Then talk all the trash you want. I hope he does well. But I just don't see it happening all year..
Wait til the end of hte year to bash him then. This crap doesn't work one way. You can't blast away on him after a bad game and then say we can't applaud him for a very good game.

Hypocrit.

captainatheism
04-16-2010, 05:35 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't he only guaranteed 6 years? the last 2 are part of a mutual option.

Doogolas
04-16-2010, 05:51 PM
I'm pretty sure you're wrong.

Ron!n
04-16-2010, 06:21 PM
Alfonso Soriano of
8 years/$136M (2007-14)

* 8 years/$136M (2007-14)
o signed by Cubs as a free agent 11/06
o $8M signing bonus
o 07:$9M, 08:$13M, 09:$16M, 10-14:$18M annually
o full no-trade clause
o award bonuses: $0.25M for top vote-getter in All-Star balloting, $0.35M for World Series MVP, $0.25M for LCS MVP, $0.3M for MVP, $75,000 for Gold Glove
o perks: suite on road trips, 6 premium tickets for each home game (spring training - post-season) and All Star Game (if Soriano is selected)
o Soriano to donate $25,000 annually to both United Way & Cubs Care

Unfortunately, youre wrong.

Although if you dont count this year we only have 4 more years!

ReJo
04-16-2010, 06:29 PM
It wasn't a blunder, and what "bailed him out" was his own speed.

He beat the throw, it was a smart baserunning move.


Exactly. Honestly, if nothing else he baited that throw to 2B. Did a quick fake back towards second, the MOMENT that ball was thrown he took off and stole third EASILY.

OK I thought he was picked off. I didn't realize it was a calculated move on his part

Doogolas
04-16-2010, 06:30 PM
OK I thought he was picked off. I didn't realize it was a calculated move on his part

Yeah, no, it was a catcher snap throw. And it really looked like he baited it. I'm not 100% sure. But I wouldn't be surprised at all if it was on purpose.

semperfi
04-16-2010, 06:45 PM
Wait til the end of hte year to bash him then. This crap doesn't work one way. You can't blast away on him after a bad game and then say we can't applaud him for a very good game.

Hypocrit.

Actually I blasted him for last year and this year. I'm saying don't talk trash to me, unless you want me to come back day after day to let you know that Soriano went 0-4 that day.. You brought up the argument there killer, not me. Man you lack intelligence.

Btw, Learn to spell.

Doogolas
04-16-2010, 07:03 PM
Soriano isn't doing that badly this year.

semperfi
04-16-2010, 07:09 PM
Soriano isn't doing that badly this year.

No he's really not doing bad this year. He started the first couple games a little rough. But he's been good as of late it seems. He looked good in the field today although that first catch he took a bad route but made up for it and made a good play. Hopefully he continues to hit like he is. Only thing you can ask for is for him to do is raise his OPS a bit.

semperfi
04-16-2010, 07:14 PM
Doog, what do you think would be acceptable OPS for Soriano this year. Not what you want him to get, but enough to say his bat wasn't a liability.

Doogolas
04-16-2010, 07:17 PM
Doog, what do you think would be acceptable OPS for Soriano this year. Not what you want him to get, but enough to say his bat wasn't a liability.

Well, I think if he can manage .830 or so I'd be happy. Depending on how his defense ends up being, obviously he's started out VERY badly, but it's very relative to that. But I'd say we're safe if he can manage an .830 type OPS. Something like: .270/.330/.500 or so. I think he can do better. I think he will do better. But if he gives me .830 then I'd be totally OK with it.

semperfi
04-16-2010, 07:24 PM
Well, I think if he can manage .830 or so I'd be happy. Depending on how his defense ends up being, obviously he's started out VERY badly, but it's very relative to that. But I'd say we're safe if he can manage an .830 type OPS. Something like: .270/.330/.500 or so. I think he can do better. I think he will do better. But if he gives me .830 then I'd be totally OK with it.

I think I agree with that. Obviously last year he was completely terrible at the plate. It looks like the knee really isn't bothering him by the way he ran today. If he puts up .830, I think it'd be a good comeback year for him. If he puts up .840-.860, I'd try to move him to an AL team. Just to try to get out from under that contract.

Doogolas
04-16-2010, 07:25 PM
I think I agree with that. Obviously last year he was completely terrible at the plate. It looks like the knee really isn't bothering him by the way he ran today. If he puts up .830, I think it'd be a good comeback year for him. If he puts up .840-.860, I'd try to move him to an AL team. Just to try to get out from under that contract.

Agreed.

holycowsoup?
04-17-2010, 01:49 AM
My brother said it best to me about Soriano. "Find something to like about this guy, because he's gonna be here for 5 more years". After 5 years the only thing we make is the 7th inning defensive replacement that goes in for him.

redwhitenblue
04-17-2010, 06:39 AM
Actually I blasted him for last year and this year. I'm saying don't talk trash to me, unless you want me to come back day after day to let you know that Soriano went 0-4 that day.. You brought up the argument there killer, not me. Man you lack intelligence.

Btw, Learn to spell.
You already do come day after day whenever he does ANYTHING wrong.

thawv
04-17-2010, 08:56 AM
Soriano is just about done as a baseball player. He can't do anything a player gets paid to do. He can't hit, run, catch, and throw like a big leaguer. His so called streaks, have pretty much come to an end.

You can take this one to the bank also........................he's much older than the 34 he claims to be, and he is also no longer taking PED's. If anybody thinks any differently, you're either too young to understand, or you need your head examined.

This is just another desperate bad signing by Hendry. We are handcuffed to long overpaid contracts for a little longer, so there is light at the end of the tunnel. Going into the 2011 season we are still on the hook for 103.5. Going into the 2012 season, we are committed to 62.5m in payroll. Going into the 2013 season, we are committed to 19m............all to the bum we call our left fielder.

Milnertime
04-17-2010, 10:29 AM
Soriano is just about done as a baseball player. He can't do anything a player gets paid to do. He can't hit, run, catch, and throw like a big leaguer. His so called streaks, have pretty much come to an end.

You can take this one to the bank also........................he's much older than the 34 he claims to be, and he is also no longer taking PED's. If anybody thinks any differently, you're either too young to understand, or you need your head examined.

This is just another desperate bad signing by Hendry. We are handcuffed to long overpaid contracts for a little longer, so there is light at the end of the tunnel. Going into the 2011 season we are still on the hook for 103.5. Going into the 2012 season, we are committed to 62.5m in payroll. Going into the 2013 season, we are committed to 19m............all to the bum we call our left fielder.
Dumbest. Post. Ever.

It's interesting that you present these comments as facts, too, when they aren't based on anything more than a Friday afternoon spent in the bleachers with a bunch of idiots who don't know what the hell they're talking about.

Just to run a quick fact check on your post, even though you're the kind of crazy that won't listen anyway...

Soriano has had one bad season. He had a well documented knee injury in that season. Prior to sustaining that knee injury, he was hitting better than he ever has. He had surgery on said knee. Soriano's batting line if you take out opening day is actually damn good, showing how stupid it is to base any kind of conclusion on 10 ****ing games. His last 2-3 games have been pretty solid at the plate. Oh, and he still has a cannon, so I'm not sure how you can say he can't throw like a major leaguer. He's got one of the best arms in baseball, and maybe the best in LF.

As far as his age....prove it. Until you show me a timestamped video with his birth on it, I'm not buying it. PED use? Are you really that desperate? FYI, the MLB's first round of drug testing went into place in the 2005 offseason, right before Soriano's best year ever. He'd have been a fool to risk a suspension in what was his best season.


I'm not really sure what your point is about the money owed to Soriano. Everyone knows his contract is terrible. Most people said that the day he was signed.

I'm not trying to make this into a political thing, but honestly, this post reminds me a lot of something Glenn Beck would say....and that is not a compliment. Crazies all sound alike, I guess.

Congratulations. You have made my ignore list after one solitary post. That might be a record.

thawv
04-17-2010, 10:49 AM
Dumbest. Post. Ever.

It's interesting that you present these comments as facts, too, when they aren't based on anything more than a Friday afternoon spent in the bleachers with a bunch of idiots who don't know what the hell they're talking about.

Just to run a quick fact check on your post, even though you're the kind of crazy that won't listen anyway...

Soriano has had one bad season. He had a well documented knee injury in that season. Prior to sustaining that knee injury, he was hitting better than he ever has. He had surgery on said knee. Soriano's batting line if you take out opening day is actually damn good, showing how stupid it is to base any kind of conclusion on 10 ****ing games. His last 2-3 games have been pretty solid at the plate. Oh, and he still has a cannon, so I'm not sure how you can say he can't throw like a major leaguer. He's got one of the best arms in baseball, and maybe the best in LF.

As far as his age....prove it. Until you show me a timestamped video with his birth on it, I'm not buying it. PED use? Are you really that desperate? FYI, the MLB's first round of drug testing went into place in the 2005 offseason, right before Soriano's best year ever. He'd have been a fool to risk a suspension in what was his best season.


I'm not really sure what your point is about the money owed to Soriano. Everyone knows his contract is terrible. Most people said that the day he was signed.

I'm not trying to make this into a political thing, but honestly, this post reminds me a lot of something Glenn Beck would say....and that is not a compliment. Crazies all sound alike, I guess.

Congratulations. You have made my ignore list after one solitary post. That might be a record.

Milnertime- Of course you entitled to your opinion just as I am. And yes, you make some valid points here. I don't want to get personal, as I'm sure you don't either. I am kinda crazy, but I will listen to everything you say with an open mind.

You say he's had one bad season. That is how it works at the end of someone's career. It's hare to differentiate a bad season from the beginning of the end. My opinion is that it is the beginning of the end of his productivity. You may think it was a bad season. And that's great. I just don't agree with it. About his arm. It's very clear that he has an infielders arm. He gets rid of it quickly and keeps it down for the most. But it could not be considered even close to a cannon yet alone a strong arm.

His age thing is obviously speculation. However it is well documented that many of the Latino players have lied about their age. We all know that it's not a secret. With how quickly he's deteriorated as a player, gives my gut the feeling that he is older than 34. Hell, David Ortiz was using a different name in the minors. You really never know.

About the drug testing program. Steroids is what they test for. There are many, many drugs that can be taken without detection. A ton a players are still taking PED's this very day. The number has clearly gone down, but there are drugs out there that increase their performance without being detected. I read an article that said that no less than 2000 players were on something in the 90's. So just cuz you haven't been caught, does not mean you are clean.

I have no point about the money. I just get agravated when I think about it and wanted to complain. :-)

LOL! Glenn Beck. That's funny. I don't mind being considered a little crazy. Thanks for the laugh. It's too bad you put me on ignore. I think we could have some friendly banter.

Have a great day and let's get a long winning streak going.

T

Milnertime
04-17-2010, 11:18 AM
Milnertime- Of course you entitled to your opinion just as I am. And yes, you make some valid points here. I don't want to get personal, as I'm sure you don't either. I am kinda crazy, but I will listen to everything you say with an open mind.

You say he's had one bad season. That is how it works at the end of someone's career. It's hare to differentiate a bad season from the beginning of the end. My opinion is that it is the beginning of the end of his productivity. You may think it was a bad season. And that's great. I just don't agree with it. About his arm. It's very clear that he has an infielders arm. He gets rid of it quickly and keeps it down for the most. But it could not be considered even close to a cannon yet alone a strong arm.

His age thing is obviously speculation. However it is well documented that many of the Latino players have lied about their age. We all know that it's not a secret. With how quickly he's deteriorated as a player, gives my gut the feeling that he is older than 34. Hell, David Ortiz was using a different name in the minors. You really never know.

About the drug testing program. Steroids is what they test for. There are many, many drugs that can be taken without detection. A ton a players are still taking PED's this very day. The number has clearly gone down, but there are drugs out there that increase their performance without being detected. I read an article that said that no less than 2000 players were on something in the 90's. So just cuz you haven't been caught, does not mean you are clean.

I have no point about the money. I just get agravated when I think about it and wanted to complain. :-)

LOL! Glenn Beck. That's funny. I don't mind being considered a little crazy. Thanks for the laugh. It's too bad you put me on ignore. I think we could have some friendly banter.

Have a great day and let's get a long winning streak going.

T

This is a rational post.

The other one, not so much.

I'm just not a fan of presenting things that are pretty much pure conjecture as fact, which is where the Glenn Beck comparison comes in (Obama's a Socialist, not from America, trying to kill grandma, etc).

Saying you know for sure that A) Soriano's done after one injury plagued season and a week and a half of another, B) that Soriano was on PEDs, and C) that Soriano is older than he says he is, without any sort of evidence backing it up just kind of rubs me the wrong way.

The way you talk about it in your second post actually makes sense and is reasonable.

ChicagoWind1
04-17-2010, 12:29 PM
i have a friend at wrigley and he told me soriano has 2 moths to get his **** togother if not by by soriWell your "friend"
fails at baseball.:confused:

semperfi
04-18-2010, 01:21 AM
You already do come day after day whenever he does ANYTHING wrong.

I really don't. I'm hardly on the boards. I'm on maybe every other day. Sometimes I put in back to backs. Last year, I was right Soriano sucked while everyone was oh he'll pull out of it, he didn't. This year, I hope he does well(which I always do hope), and so far he is. Whether he is going to keep it up, who knows? Not me.

thawv
04-18-2010, 06:10 PM
This is a rational post.

The other one, not so much.

I'm just not a fan of presenting things that are pretty much pure conjecture as fact, which is where the Glenn Beck comparison comes in (Obama's a Socialist, not from America, trying to kill grandma, etc).

Saying you know for sure that A) Soriano's done after one injury plagued season and a week and a half of another, B) that Soriano was on PEDs, and C) that Soriano is older than he says he is, without any sort of evidence backing it up just kind of rubs me the wrong way.

The way you talk about it in your second post actually makes sense and is reasonable.

:cheers:

Hulk6
04-18-2010, 06:45 PM
^ lol