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R_O_W_E
04-15-2010, 11:34 AM
http://sports.espn.go.com/new-york/nba/news/story?id=5092348

It looks like his last game ironically might've been at Toronto against the Raptors, where he didn't even play due to a sore knee.

Is he a Hall of Famer, not 1st ballot, but several years down the line?

Career averages of 21.5 PPG/6.0 RPG/4.7 APG
7x All NBA
7x All Star
2x Scoring Champion

I think hes done, his knees and body is worn down.

Hawkeye15
04-15-2010, 11:42 AM
he is easliy a HOF'er

m26555
04-15-2010, 11:42 AM
Sad. One of the greatest players of this generation.

wileyisTOFU
04-15-2010, 11:47 AM
shame his early years were wasted on such ****** teams, but alas i guess thats always to common the case

R_O_W_E
04-15-2010, 11:47 AM
Sad. One of the greatest players of this generation.

This.

He gets ripped a lot of being injured, missing games, and never advancing past the 1st Round but for like 6 years he was a Top 10 player in the NBA. He was a 6'8 Point Forward with great athleticism, a good handle, good range, and one of the best first steps in NBA history. Its just crazy to see how he has declined, and hes only 30 years old.

Does anybody remember when he could dunk? When he dunked off the backboard, everybody tried to do it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nvVEwGnD4h4

m26555
04-15-2010, 11:49 AM
This.

He gets ripped a lot of being injured, missing games, and never advancing past the 1st Round but for like 6 years he was a Top 10 player in the NBA. He was a 6'8 Point Forward with great athleticism, a good handle, good range, and one of the best first steps in NBA history. Its just crazy to see how he has declined, and hes only 30 years old.

Does anybody remember when he could dunk? When he dunked off the backboard, everybody tried to do it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nvVEwGnD4h4
I'll probably get KILLED for saying this, but I think there was a short time (in his final two years with Orlando) when McGrady was superior to Kobe. The guy was simply a machine in his peak years.

sep11ie
04-15-2010, 11:53 AM
I think he deserves everything thats happened to him. He's a "me first" player that puts himself above his teammates and organization.


By the way, does he credit for an assist too on those backboard dunks?

m26555
04-15-2010, 11:54 AM
I think he deserves everything thats happened to him. He's a "me first" player that puts himself above his teammates and organization.


By the way, does he credit for an assist too on those backboard dunks?
So he "deserved" to suffer all of those injuries? You've gotta be kidding.

BlondeBomber41
04-15-2010, 11:59 AM
Title is a little premature isnt it? Says he "may" retire and that its a "possibility".... not that he will.

The Final Boss
04-15-2010, 12:01 PM
I'll probably get KILLED for saying this, but I think there was a short time (in his final two years with Orlando) when McGrady was superior to Kobe. The guy was simply a machine in his peak years.

If memory serves me right, there was a game against Orlando in Orlando in 2003?..where Kobe lit him up for like 50 or something. I think Kobe said enough is enough let me shut this clown down. I have to look it up though I had just returned from Afghanistan and may not have been all there.

fredo832
04-15-2010, 12:04 PM
So he "deserved" to suffer all of those injuries? You've gotta be kidding.

injuries? what injuries? Oh you mean those he claimed to have while he was sitting at home chillin making 21 mil. doing absolutely nothing right? Im sure if he played for your team missed half of the season and put your team under the bus you would understand why some of us have no respect for the guy. He wont ever be a hall of famer unless they start accepting lazy bums into the hall of fame. Hes a 2nd round virgin more than 90% of the people in the hall of fame either have a ring or have made it pass the 1st round of the playoffs. Ill admit at one point in my life I was happy when we traded for him but after the 1st season I was just disappointed really.

asandhu23
04-15-2010, 12:10 PM
Send him to Warriors. He deserves much better

ballpd05
04-15-2010, 12:10 PM
For a few of those years in Orlando was the most unstoppable offensive wing player in the game. I remember a season when he would drop 40 what seemed like every other night.

I think not having someone to help him out will aid his legacy as a top flight scorer. When he was in Houston with Yao putting up numbers like those we would not be talking about hall of fame for him. But he was so dominant on that Magic team because he had to be that it gave him a legacy....

Its crazy how fast he declined though... Just two years ago didn't lead the Yao-less rockets to a 22 game winning streak?

Raph12
04-15-2010, 12:15 PM
I think he tries his hand at another season, like AI did.

DodgerBulls
04-15-2010, 12:19 PM
Grant Hill 2.0 basically. Hope he finds a team who will give him another shot just like the Suns did to Hill.

thephoenixson28
04-15-2010, 12:19 PM
If amare doesn't resign we should go after him. Phoenix rejuvanates everyones career.

Draco
04-15-2010, 12:20 PM
Great numbers for an 8 year stretch where he played 86% of his games.. He might get in but I wouldn't put in the HOF.

Chronz
04-15-2010, 12:21 PM
Prolly not but thats because the hall of fame is a joke. And you can tell which Rocket fans are bitter willing to make up lies. So now Tmac never had injuries... lmfao whats next, Yao is faking it too?

m26555
04-15-2010, 12:23 PM
injuries? what injuries? Oh you mean those he claimed to have while he was sitting at home chillin making 21 mil. doing absolutely nothing right? Im sure if he played for your team missed half of the season and put your team under the bus you would understand why some of us have no respect for the guy. He wont ever be a hall of famer unless they start accepting lazy bums into the hall of fame. Hes a 2nd round virgin more than 90% of the people in the hall of fame either have a ring or have made it pass the 1st round of the playoffs. Ill admit at one point in my life I was happy when we traded for him but after the 1st season I was just disappointed really.
Yeah; I guess all those surgeries were just for kicks. :rolleyes:

Chronz
04-15-2010, 12:23 PM
For a few of those years in Orlando was the most unstoppable offensive wing player in the game. I remember a season when he would drop 40 what seemed like every other night.

I think not having someone to help him out will aid his legacy as a top flight scorer. When he was in Houston with Yao putting up numbers like those we would not be talking about hall of fame for him. But he was so dominant on that Magic team because he had to be that it gave him a legacy....

Its crazy how fast he declined though... Just two years ago didn't lead the Yao-less rockets to a 22 game winning streak?
He put up those #'s because he was that good, had he never declined physically he would have put up even better #'s alongside Yao. And even in his diminished state he was better than most HOFers

JordansBulls
04-15-2010, 12:23 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/new-york/nba/news/story?id=5092348

It looks like his last game ironically might've been at Toronto against the Raptors, where he didn't even play due to a sore knee.

Is he a Hall of Famer, not 1st ballot, but several years down the line?

Career averages of 21.5 PPG/6.0 RPG/4.7 APG
7x All NBA
7x All Star
2x Scoring Champion

I think hes done, his knees and body is worn down.

How does that mean it is his last game?

R_O_W_E
04-15-2010, 12:25 PM
Prolly not but thats because the hall of fame is a joke. And you can tell which Rocket fans are bitter willing to make up lies. So now Tmac never had injuries... lmfao whats next, Yao is faking it too?

Yeah Rockets fans have a strong dislike for T-Mac solely because they feel he let the team down in recent years, where they could've contended for a NBA Finals appearance with a prime T-Mac and Yao.

T-Mac has suffered numerous injuries to his knees, shoulder, but most importantly his back. It seems like once a NBA player injures their back, they never regain form and then begin to suffer other injuries as a result of their bad back.

R_O_W_E
04-15-2010, 12:27 PM
How does that mean it is his last game?

You can change the title of the thread, I just think he will be done. His body can't physically hold up for 82 games.

IRUAM #21
04-15-2010, 12:35 PM
Send him to Warriors. He deserves much better

Agreed, he deserves to experience the lottery once again.

fadedmario
04-15-2010, 12:36 PM
No way is he a going to the hall of fame. He accomplished nothing and only had a few good years. Injurys killed his career and his chance at the hall.

nacdaddy
04-15-2010, 12:37 PM
dude was lazy.! maybe if he had a work ethic, he wouldnt have had so many injuries. he suffered from a disease called 8itch, symptoms: cries about the quality of teammates, doesnt hustle, blames teammates for failures, and throws teammates, office, coach, organization under the bus. HE DESERVES WHAT HAS HAPPENED TO HIM! look at his track record of teams hes played for; toronto, orlando and houston. none of those teams or city respects him or wants him back.

thescore53
04-15-2010, 12:37 PM
If amare doesn't resign we should go after him. Phoenix rejuvanates everyones career.

yea best medical staff in the league

Sadds The Gr8
04-15-2010, 12:39 PM
I'll probably get KILLED for saying this, but I think there was a short time (in his final two years with Orlando) when McGrady was superior to Kobe. The guy was simply a machine in his peak years.

I completely agree

wileyisTOFU
04-15-2010, 12:39 PM
He needs some of that HGH the Suns use

thescore53
04-15-2010, 12:40 PM
tmac and vince vented about leaving toronto where they could have started a dynasty, atleast vince sticked around till there was no hope of winning a ship left

wileyisTOFU
04-15-2010, 12:41 PM
and come on, no way he goes away quietly. YOU KNOW were gonna be hearing about this **** next fall ala AI this year. I think its gotta be hard to retire when you know you can still milk your fame for all its worth, just saying..

BoognishMN
04-15-2010, 12:52 PM
No way is he a going to the hall of fame. He accomplished nothing and only had a few good years. Injurys killed his career and his chance at the hall.

Ditto

Chronz
04-15-2010, 12:54 PM
dude was lazy.! maybe if he had a work ethic, he wouldnt have had so many injuries. he suffered from a disease called 8itch, symptoms: cries about the quality of teammates, doesnt hustle, blames teammates for failures, and throws teammates, office, coach, organization under the bus. HE DESERVES WHAT HAS HAPPENED TO HIM! look at his track record of teams hes played for; toronto, orlando and houston. none of those teams or city respects him or wants him back.
He had developed a great work ethic, in fact after going through the best offseason regimen of his career his body responded by spasming out, since then hes had to work primarily on his core just to stay in the league, had to alter his game to remain effective. You dont develop his skill set without working on it, and you definitely dont suffer his injuries as a result of laziness. Its called bad genetics. Looking at his track record I see alot of misinformed fanbases and his complaints were warranted, hes a man of truth not a man of honor. I dont care if you think thats a flaw, its what Ive always admired about him. An athlete willing to speak his mind rather than feed us cliches.

NEXT

R_O_W_E
04-15-2010, 12:58 PM
and come on, no way he goes away quietly. YOU KNOW were gonna be hearing about this **** next fall ala AI this year. I think its gotta be hard to retire when you know you can still milk your fame for all its worth, just saying..

T-Mac has nothing to prove. He had an opportunity to prove doubters wrong in New York, and it lasted 3 quarters.

blams
04-15-2010, 12:59 PM
Maybe a hof'er

Chronz
04-15-2010, 01:12 PM
T-Mac has nothing to prove. He had an opportunity to prove doubters wrong in New York, and it lasted 3 quarters.
Players generally dont recover from MF in year 1

R_O_W_E
04-15-2010, 01:19 PM
Players generally dont recover from MF in year 1

He missed 40+ games, he apparently was healed enough to play in December/January but Adelman didn't give him a spot in the lineup.

I dont think the MF surgery recovery will do much for him, its not like he can regain his athleticism because we saw that decline towards the end of his run in Houston. He can still have value as a 6'8 Point Forward, but I dont think a team will sign him unless he is 100% healthy. Something which he hasn't been in years.

lakerssssssss
04-15-2010, 01:34 PM
It is always sad to see a player's career get derailed due to injury.

NBAfan4life
04-15-2010, 02:23 PM
I would be surprised if he makes it into the HOF. If he did it would be on what if... What if he didn't get injured. He had some simply AMAZING seasons, but his career was cut short not to mention he never made it out of the first round.

Chronz do you think he deserves a spot in the HOF

RadiantShot
04-15-2010, 03:13 PM
Tracy won't retire. He's still got a lot left. He just has to harness his super-powers. ;)

SteveNash
04-15-2010, 03:20 PM
Wasn't T-Mac supposed to be 95% healthy when he joined the Knicks?

sep11ie
04-15-2010, 03:20 PM
injuries? what injuries? Oh you mean those he claimed to have while he was sitting at home chillin making 21 mil. doing absolutely nothing right? Im sure if he played for your team missed half of the season and put your team under the bus you would understand why some of us have no respect for the guy. He wont ever be a hall of famer unless they start accepting lazy bums into the hall of fame. Hes a 2nd round virgin more than 90% of the people in the hall of fame either have a ring or have made it pass the 1st round of the playoffs. Ill admit at one point in my life I was happy when we traded for him but after the 1st season I was just disappointed really.

This!

thekmp211
04-15-2010, 03:23 PM
If memory serves me right, there was a game against Orlando in Orlando in 2003?..where Kobe lit him up for like 50 or something. I think Kobe said enough is enough let me shut this clown down. I have to look it up though I had just returned from Afghanistan and may not have been all there.

maybe but game in game out that year mcgrady put on a show even kobe couldnt keep up with. he was special

thekmp211
04-15-2010, 03:31 PM
injuries? what injuries? Oh you mean those he claimed to have while he was sitting at home chillin making 21 mil. doing absolutely nothing right? Im sure if he played for your team missed half of the season and put your team under the bus you would understand why some of us have no respect for the guy. He wont ever be a hall of famer unless they start accepting lazy bums into the hall of fame. Hes a 2nd round virgin more than 90% of the people in the hall of fame either have a ring or have made it pass the 1st round of the playoffs. Ill admit at one point in my life I was happy when we traded for him but after the 1st season I was just disappointed really.

uh, no. unless of course you were his personal trainer for this period of time in which case i apologize.

remember it was he who was unlucky to have his career derailed by injuries, not you. seems you're just a bitter fan who wanted a front-runner to gloat about.

fact is, for a few years this guy was playing at kobe-only levels. his toronto years were negligible, his orlando teams were SO bad, and by the time he got to houston he was starting to break down. i honestly think people take his lazy eye, his relaxed demeanor and pure talent as conclusive evidence that the man didn't care. you just don't get THAT good by accident, and you don't get THAT hurt unless you're makeup is just unlucky.

i think he gets healthy and plays 20 for a contender, it would be wild to see him on the lakers as much as i hate them.

PLAYERS FAN
04-15-2010, 03:32 PM
dude was lazy.! maybe if he had a work ethic, he wouldnt have had so many injuries. he suffered from a disease called 8itch, symptoms: cries about the quality of teammates, doesnt hustle, blames teammates for failures, and throws teammates, office, coach, organization under the bus. HE DESERVES WHAT HAS HAPPENED TO HIM! look at his track record of teams hes played for; toronto, orlando and houston. none of those teams or city respects him or wants him back.

So true:nod:

PLAYERS FAN
04-15-2010, 03:37 PM
Iverson has a better chance of being a all-star than Tmac!

sep11ie
04-15-2010, 03:37 PM
Yeah Rockets fans have a strong dislike for T-Mac solely because they feel he let the team down in recent years, where they could've contended for a NBA Finals appearance with a prime T-Mac and Yao.

T-Mac has suffered numerous injuries to his knees, shoulder, but most importantly his back. It seems like once a NBA player injures their back, they never regain form and then begin to suffer other injuries as a result of their bad back.

It was her "its all about me" attitude that rubbed most of us the wrong way. If she would have just stfu and did what she was told we wouldn't hate her so bad.

DodgerBulls
04-15-2010, 03:39 PM
and come on, no way he goes away quietly. YOU KNOW were gonna be hearing about this **** next fall ala AI this year. I think its gotta be hard to retire when you know you can still milk your fame for all its worth, just saying..

well Iverson had personal issues as T-Mac has injury issues. Iverson had something to prove cause his body can support it, unlike T-Mac who would like to play, but sadly cannot because of his injuries.

nacdaddy
04-15-2010, 03:40 PM
He had developed a great work ethic, in fact after going through the best offseason regimen of his career his body responded by spasming out, since then hes had to work primarily on his core just to stay in the league, had to alter his game to remain effective. You dont develop his skill set without working on it, and you definitely dont suffer his injuries as a result of laziness. Its called bad genetics. Looking at his track record I see alot of misinformed fanbases and his complaints were warranted, hes a man of truth not a man of honor. I dont care if you think thats a flaw, its what Ive always admired about him. An athlete willing to speak his mind rather than feed us cliches.

NEXT

great work ethic? really? his body responded by spasming out cause he never work on his core ever before this year. a year where it was a contract year and had to prove his pity little worth to the rest of the nba for another contract. he had the most god given talent and body of anybody in the nba but never wanted to better himself. "you dont suffer his injuries as a result of laziness." correct, you PREVENT them. he has maybe added 10 lbs of muscle from his rookie year til now. maybe if he didnt rely so much on that god given ability and actually worked on improving it, he would have done a little something in his career besides piss fans off and this is coming from a guy that owns 4 of his jerseys.

speaking your mind gets you alot of things and the two things that remains constant is 'getting yourself a bad image and in trouble'. i dont mind players speaking their minds, in fact, i approve of it, but it has to be truthful and in context. mcgrady was all about himself and thats all he has now.

NEXT!

AI4MVP
04-15-2010, 03:42 PM
When he was with the MAgic he was the best player in the NBA in my opinion

Chronz
04-15-2010, 03:43 PM
He missed 40+ games, he apparently was healed enough to play in December/January but Adelman didn't give him a spot in the lineup.
Healed enough? You can play but your not recovered from MF in year 1.


I dont think the MF surgery recovery will do much for him, its not like he can regain his athleticism because we saw that decline towards the end of his run in Houston. He can still have value as a 6'8 Point Forward, but I dont think a team will sign him unless he is 100% healthy. Something which he hasn't been in years.

He will regain more of the athletic ability hes displayed this year, its only natural. Not sure what your trying to say about it declining, of course it has, but we saw him on 1 leg in Houston and played better than he has now, that a sign that hes not yet recovered. And he doesnt need to be 100% healthy to have value.

harlequin018
04-15-2010, 03:43 PM
T-Mac was dominant for a year or two, very good for another 4-5 and hurt the rest of the time. His teams did nothing in the playoffs and he only has about 17000 points for his career. He won't make it into the Hall.

Hugbees
04-15-2010, 03:47 PM
Change the title, it says that is a POSSIBILITY. I think he will be back.

TmacBryant
04-15-2010, 03:49 PM
I'll probably get KILLED for saying this, but I think there was a short time (in his final two years with Orlando) when McGrady was superior to Kobe. The guy was simply a machine in his peak years.


his offense was definitely at the level of kobe's for a few years, but defensively ( whether it was because of his injuries or not) he was a liability sometimes.

td0tsfinest
04-15-2010, 03:50 PM
I could see him possibly signing a contract this summer or even some time next January and play half a season.

at only 31 years old, I don't think T-Mac is ready to hang up the shoes.

Chronz
04-15-2010, 03:53 PM
great work ethic? really? his body responded by spasming out cause he never work on his core ever before this year.
This year? Im talking years ago, and youd be wrong.


a year where it was a contract year and had to prove his pity little worth to the rest of the nba for another contract.
nope, he already had the long term deal.


he had the most god given talent and body of anybody in the nba but never wanted to better himself.
Again false, talent includes genetics, and sadly for him, Drs told him he wouldnt last very long because of a degenerative/bulging disk. God given indeed, and you dont win Most Improved Player of the year without "Bettering yourself".


"you dont suffer his injuries as a result of laziness." correct, you PREVENT them.
Which he has done since day 1


he has maybe added 10 lbs of muscle from his rookie year til now.
lmfao, you actually think adding muscle is what helps your back? Its called core strengthening, something hes worked on extensively to stay in the league. And youd be wrong, his weight has ranged from 200 to 223 throughout his career.


maybe if he didnt rely so much on that god given ability and actually worked on improving it, he would have done a little something in his career besides piss fans off and this is coming from a guy that owns 4 of his jerseys.
Coming from a guy with little facts and no knowledge of his situations. He relied on a massive skill set and athletic ability, its what made him such a special talent.



speaking your mind gets you alot of things and the two things that remains constant is 'getting yourself a bad image and in trouble'. i dont mind players speaking their minds, in fact, i approve of it, but it has to be truthful and in context. mcgrady was all about himself and thats all he has now.
Then you should approve of Tmac's choice of words, he has generally been on point with his opinions.


NEXT!

LOL indeed

shep33
04-15-2010, 03:55 PM
The statement is premature. He talks about how "if" he can't make it back to form, then he'll retire. I still think with a good offseason program he can be a productive player. Not 28, 7, and 7, but still a very capable player that can give teams a lot.

thekmp211
04-15-2010, 03:58 PM
great work ethic? really? his body responded by spasming out cause he never work on his core ever before this year. a year where it was a contract year and had to prove his pity little worth to the rest of the nba for another contract. he had the most god given talent and body of anybody in the nba but never wanted to better himself. "you dont suffer his injuries as a result of laziness." correct, you PREVENT them. he has maybe added 10 lbs of muscle from his rookie year til now. maybe if he didnt rely so much on that god given ability and actually worked on improving it, he would have done a little something in his career besides piss fans off and this is coming from a guy that owns 4 of his jerseys.

speaking your mind gets you alot of things and the two things that remains constant is 'getting yourself a bad image and in trouble'. i dont mind players speaking their minds, in fact, i approve of it, but it has to be truthful and in context. mcgrady was all about himself and thats all he has now.

NEXT!


i guess grant hill was lazy because he didn't work to prevent his injuries. and tmac never improved his game after being drafted, same guy same player same everything. great point. durant is clearly lazy too he hasn't bulked up at all. bitter much?

ballpd05
04-15-2010, 04:05 PM
He put up those #'s because he was that good, had he never declined physically he would have put up even better #'s alongside Yao. And even in his diminished state he was better than most HOFers

I agree with everything except the bolded part.

Chronz
04-15-2010, 04:15 PM
I agree with everything except the bolded part.

Tmac in his diminished state was still a 22-6.5-5 player whos team had something like a 60+ winning% with him and 30 something without. Do you know how many jokers in the HOF cant match that?

R_O_W_E
04-15-2010, 04:16 PM
He will regain more of the athletic ability hes displayed this year, its only natural. Not sure what your trying to say about it declining, of course it has, but we saw him on 1 leg in Houston and played better than he has now, that a sign that hes not yet recovered. And he doesnt need to be 100% healthy to have value.

He does need to be 100% healthy to have value. I highly doubt a team is going to give him a roster spot, and put him in their rotation if hes going to miss 1/4 of their games.

When you look at the MLE/Veteran's Minimum swingmen available, he offers the greatest upside when healthy but if he can't hold up for a season then it really wont matter.

R_O_W_E
04-15-2010, 04:18 PM
Tmac in his diminished state was still a 22-6.5-5 player whos team had something like a 60+ winning% with him and 30 something without. Do you know how many jokers in the HOF cant match that?

How many?


Also how many Hall of Fame players were in a diminished state at Age 28?

Ray_R
04-15-2010, 04:28 PM
Hall of Famer but will take time eventually hell get in.

Chronz
04-15-2010, 04:28 PM
He does need to be 100% healthy to have value. I highly doubt a team is going to give him a roster spot, and put him in their rotation if hes going to miss 1/4 of their games.
1/4 of missed games comes out to 60GMs, thats definitely worth the investment if Tmac can regain atleast his 1 legged form (Less than MLE though if thats who he turns out to be), this is a pretty low standard.


When you look at the MLE/Veteran's Minimum swingmen available, he offers the greatest upside when healthy but if he can't hold up for a season then it really wont matter.
I dont see why you would think that, what exactly is an acceptable amount of games he should play to make it worth the investment cuz honestly thats not how GM's think. Any team signing Tmac would only want him to be fit and ready come playoff time, not to carry a massive load for the regular season and would thus place him in an aging star role. Kind of how the Cavs are taking care of Shaq, or atleast tried to.

If he cant hold up for an entire season it wouldnt change a thing about why they signed him.

Chronz
04-15-2010, 04:30 PM
How many?


Also how many Hall of Fame players were in a diminished state at Age 28?
A ton

How many HOF'ers enter their 11th season by age 28? How many display the caliber of basketball he showcased at age 20-25?

R_O_W_E
04-15-2010, 04:33 PM
A ton
Who?



How many HOF'ers enter their 11th season by age 28? How many display the caliber of basketball he showcased at age 20-25?

So what comparisons are you trying to make.

Are you trying to compare T-Mac's production in a diminished state at age 28 to HOFers production at age 28?

Or are you trying to compare T-Mac's production after 11 years in the NBA to other HOFers production after 11 years in the NBA?

nacdaddy
04-15-2010, 04:34 PM
This year? Im talking years ago, and youd be wrong.
and you know this for fact, how? i didnt know i was conversing with his personal trainer


nope, he already had the long term deal.
he was suppose to be one of the top free agents in this years summer bonanza.


Again false, talent includes genetics, and sadly for him, Drs told him he wouldnt last very long because of a degenerative/bulging disk. God given indeed, and you dont win Most Improved Player of the year without "Bettering yourself".
he won mip because he actually got a bigger role and got to showcase his god given abilities as the go to guy.


Which he has done since day 1
again, you know this how? haha oh yah your his trainer, i forgot.


lmfao, you actually think adding muscle is what helps your back? Its called core strengthening, something hes worked on extensively to stay in the league. And youd be wrong, his weight has ranged from 200 to 223 throughout his career.
hmm... 223? oh yeah thats right. i forgot how he looked when we traded him to ny; fat, out of shape and a shell of himself. haha, if you're counting body fat, i guess barkely was also the hardest workers ever. lol


Then you should approve of Tmac's choice of words, he has generally been on point with his opinions.
his opinions? i could give a f[_]ck about his opinions. how about facts? when he said he informed the rockets about his surgery before the media. this while morey was about to ship his a55 out to new jersey before the trade deadline. pretty coincidental. hmmm?


Coming from a guy with little facts and no knowledge of his situations. He relied on a massive skill set and athletic ability, its what made him such a special talent.
youre right. i forgot you were his trainer, once again. you hold all that is true to shemac. special talent, no arguing that. capitalized on that talent to the fullest? i think not sir...


LOL indeed
:shakes head:

Dee_Edge
04-15-2010, 04:36 PM
No surprise to Houston...

thekmp211
04-15-2010, 04:36 PM
He does need to be 100% healthy to have value. I highly doubt a team is going to give him a roster spot, and put him in their rotation if hes going to miss 1/4 of their games.

When you look at the MLE/Veteran's Minimum swingmen available, he offers the greatest upside when healthy but if he can't hold up for a season then it really wont matter.


i can see him returning to a jermaine o'neal-esque level of health, and he can be more effective than jermaine because his skills are more developed and less reliant on athleticism.

he will and should go to the HoF. Dennis Johnson, a new hall member, was never the player that a 75% TMAC was. furthermore, tmac will be one of the 5 or 10 most influential players of the 2000s.

Chronz
04-15-2010, 04:37 PM
Who?

Ill work on a list, we'll be exempting the collegiate and international stars since they made the Hall by different standards.


So what comparisons are you trying to make.

Are you trying to compare T-Mac's production in a diminished state at age 28 to HOFers production at age 28?

Or are you trying to compare T-Mac's production after 11 years in the NBA to other HOFers production after 11 years in the NBA?

good point, basically that his diminished state came at a time when you see (typical players) begin to fade. Hes been more injury prone, but some of it is due to the fact that he started his career so early.

Ill list a bunch of HOF'ers and you tell me which you disagree with.

SirCalvin81
04-15-2010, 04:38 PM
he wont retire

avrpatsfan
04-15-2010, 04:38 PM
He's only 30 he shouldn't retire.

asandhu23
04-15-2010, 04:44 PM
Not retiring.

http://www.t-mac.com/tmac/blogDetail/2375


Our season ended yesterday and now its time for a small break to rest up before I get back to rehab and training. Iím going to work hard all summer long getting ready for next season. I saw a report this morning that I was going to retire, and let me set record straight, I am not retiring. Iíve got more game in me, and youíll see it on the court next year. Thanks to all my fans for all your support. No matter where I end up next season, Iíll be ready!

Mac

nacdaddy
04-15-2010, 04:46 PM
i guess grant hill was lazy because he didn't work to prevent his injuries. and tmac never improved his game after being drafted, same guy same player same everything. great point. durant is clearly lazy too he hasn't bulked up at all. bitter much?

bitter a ton, actually. i understand there are alot of injuries you cant prevent, but look at all those players now. grant hill- playing at a great level. amare-playing at a great level. shemac-playing at a... oh not playing at all. :facepalm: durant is in his third year and has put on muscle, 15 lbs to be exact. so before you try to get smart, get facts.

Chronz
04-15-2010, 04:55 PM
and you know this for fact, how? i didnt know i was conversing with his personal trainer
Couldnt I just ask you the same thing? Your making personal claims based on what exactly? I know this for a fact because of numerous sources (Former coaches, athletic trainers, and their clients, guys like Udonis Haslem who shared Tmacs personal trainer for awhile). He started his career with pretty poor work ethic, but that didnt last.


he was suppose to be one of the top free agents in this years summer bonanza.

Has nothing to do with what I was saying because the example I gave happened when he already had his extension. All caught up yet?


he won mip because he actually got a bigger role and got to showcase his god given abilities as the go to guy.
His role got bigger because he was able to handle it, he improved his off the dribble game, his range, and honed other aspects of his game. You clearly have no idea how stats work, a bigger role doesnt lead to this kind of leap in production. A bigger role usually means your going to see an increase in usage coinciding with a decrease in efficiency, when it doesnt happen that means the player has improved. Tmac in Toronto, even when Vince was on the bench was unable to replicate these attributes.


again, you know this how? haha oh yah your his trainer, i forgot.

Because my word on the matter means more than yours. Unless you provide proof to your claims, this back and forth argument isnt going to fly. As soon as you provide any sort of tangible evidence I will dig up all those articles and interviews from many years ago. Until then yea Im his personal trainer.


hmm... 223? oh yeah thats right. i forgot how he looked when we traded him to ny; fat, out of shape and a shell of himself. haha, if you're counting body fat, i guess barkely was also the hardest workers ever. lol
Fat? According to Tim Grover and Dwyane Wade Tmac put in alot of work (Wade said he was beasting it in the gym) while rehabbing from MF. So yea even your attempt at an insult proves my point.


his opinions? i could give a f[_]ck about his opinions. how about facts? when he said he informed the rockets about his surgery before the media. this while morey was about to ship his a55 out to new jersey before the trade deadline. pretty coincidental. hmmm?
Thats nonsensical, Morey wasnt going to trade for Vince, several reports have backed this up, Vince just doesnt fit the moneyball scheme.
To think Tmac purposely underwent a procedure that could possibly end his career so he doesnt get traded is why your argument doesnt hold weight. Think about it and really use your brains, any team trading for Tmac would want him for his soon to be expiring contract not because hes some sort of savior, him possibly not playing would only increase the value as the insurance would pick up 100% of his salary after a certain date, meaning they would basically get that salary dump benefits THAT year.



youre right. i forgot you were his trainer, once again. you hold all that is true to shemac. special talent, no arguing that. capitalized on that talent to the fullest? i think not sir...

Yes Im his trainer, he did reach his potential. Look up his rate of production and compare it across eras (you do know how to pace adjust, and standardize stats dont you?). Up to that point no player not named MJ had ever displayed such a combination of prolific efficiency, a microscopic turnover rate despite being a primary playmaker and slasher is a testament to the work he put in learning how to handle the rock. Or do you think its common for 6"8 players to be such great low dribblers.

You think not, because you do not think.


:shakes head:

Go figure

thekmp211
04-15-2010, 04:57 PM
bitter a ton, actually. i understand there are alot of injuries you cant prevent, but look at all those players now. grant hill- playing at a great level. amare-playing at a great level. shemac-playing at a... oh not playing at all. :facepalm: durant is in his third year and has put on muscle, 15 lbs to be exact. so before you try to get smart, get facts.


right and as another poster pointed out tmacs weight has fluctuated between 200-230ish give or take.

grant hill had FIVE YEARS. was he lazy for the others?

amare was considerably younger for his injury. and he had one failed comeback, as well.

my point with the durant reference is that saying weight gain/loss is an indicator of focus and motivation is silly and that your accusation was unfounded and untrue.

R_O_W_E
04-15-2010, 05:03 PM
1/4 of missed games comes out to 60GMs, thats definitely worth the investment if Tmac can regain atleast his 1 legged form (Less than MLE though if thats who he turns out to be), this is a pretty low standard.
It also means he misses 1 game out of every 4 the team plays due to soreness in his knee, which ended his season with the Knicks.

How is it worth the investment when hes not even a star player in the league? T-Mac at this point is nothing but bench help for a rotation on a good team, unhealthy bench players don't last long on a team.



I dont see why you would think that, what exactly is an acceptable amount of games he should play to make it worth the investment cuz honestly thats not how GM's think. Any team signing Tmac would only want him to be fit and ready come playoff time, not to carry a massive load for the regular season and would thus place him in an aging star role. Kind of how the Cavs are taking care of Shaq, or atleast tried to.
Thats not even comparable, T-Mac is a wing player while Shaq despite his age and injuries is still a productive low post player who comes up big in playoff time when the game shifts towards the half court game.

Why would a team want T-Mac to only be ready for Playoff time? Any team will want him to be a contributor in some form for 82 games, and I doubt any team will expect him to carry any type of load on offense. The expectation probably will be that he can give them a reliable option off of the bench as a 6th Man at best. If he cant give that and if he doesn't remodel his game into a spot up shooter for example, then really what value would he have? Hes not what he was even 3 years ago in a diminished state, if he was then he wouldn't be considering retirement.

Monta is beast
04-15-2010, 05:04 PM
I hope not if Morrow, Buike, Williams leave. He could come to GS. doubt Williams will leave though.

R_O_W_E
04-15-2010, 05:07 PM
i can see him returning to a jermaine o'neal-esque level of health, and he can be more effective than jermaine because his skills are more developed and less reliant on athleticism.

he will and should go to the HoF. Dennis Johnson, a new hall member, was never the player that a 75% TMAC was. furthermore, tmac will be one of the 5 or 10 most influential players of the 2000s.

AI
LeBron
Kobe
Wade
VC
Shaq
KG
Nash
Kidd
Dirk

In terms of influence who would you put him over? I think all 10 of those guys left their lasting impact in the NBA and for generations to come, what do you think T-Mac's last impact will be? Its a shame most people who actually remember his prime will overlook his elite talent in order to joke about him never winning a playoff series.

Chronz
04-15-2010, 05:21 PM
It also means he misses 1 game out of every 4 the team plays due to soreness in his knee, which ended his season with the Knicks.
OK enough fun with #'s, what exactly is an acceptable cut off point?


How is it worth the investment when hes not even a star player in the league?
I dont understand what your trying to say, tons of players arent stars but are worth some sort of investment. What matters is the return you provide on someones money. Have you ever heard of moneyball? Its a method of evaluating the rate of production and how much you should be paying based on his peers. Its how market prices are set for the most part, everyone has their own method. But if Tmac can return to even that low standard I set then hes worth some kind of investment, so long as hes able to produce in the playoffs. **** even if hes not able to go for the playoffs itll be worth the extra regular season games he helps, but if teams knew that ahead of signing then he wouldnt get money. Thats the whole risk and reward issue.


T-Mac at this point is nothing but bench help for a rotation on a good team, unhealthy bench players don't last long on a team.
Tmac at this point has yet to recover from MF, but thats why I gave an example of a level of play he could return to (The 1 legged version in Houston), thats a fairly low standard and even that version of Tmac is worth around the MLE.


Thats not even comparable, T-Mac is a wing player while Shaq despite his age and injuries is still a productive low post player who comes up big in playoff time when the game shifts towards the half court game.
Ugh Im not talking about game types, Im talking about how teams will play him. They wont NEED him to go full bore for the regular season. Tmac is better in the halfcourt by the way, but its basically the same concept. Fading star being used sparingly during the regular season.


Why would a team want T-Mac to only be ready for Playoff time? Any team will want him to be a contributor in some form for 82 games
Incorrect, no team would go into a Tmac signing expecting him to play 82 games. Just like no team expects Shaq to do that, preferably youd want them to play as much as possible but you limit their minutes as to not wear them down. They will however see the value in having a player of his abilities, ready to contribute when the games matter most.


, and I doubt any team will expect him to carry any type of load on offense.
HUH? Every player to ever play carries some "type" of load. But your still proving my point, hes not being asked to carry a huge load so what makes you think they will expect him to be there every night? His addition is only meant to fortify a rotation thats already in place. Not to make any team a contender.


The expectation probably will be that he can give them a reliable option off of the bench as a 6th Man at best. If he cant give that and if he doesn't remodel his game into a spot up shooter for example, then really what value would he have?
Yes thank you, thats what Ive been saying from the start. But the term 6thman can vary, he doesnt have to come off the bench, it could work that way but he could also play as a starter who plays less minutes than a reserve.


Hes not what he was even 3 years ago in a diminished state, if he was then he wouldn't be considering retirement.
You really dont know Tmac, he was talking about retirement when he was an All-Star, even though that was taken out of context, I dont think he was saying he would retire now. And it appears hes not, he didnt spend all that time rehabbing so that he could be done. It just doesnt add up. But hes definitely got more in the tank than what hes shown thus far, and if he can return to the form I was talking about, that would be enough of an accomplishment to warrant the investment.

R_O_W_E
04-15-2010, 05:25 PM
OK enough fun with #'s, what exactly is an acceptable cut off point?


I dont understand what your trying to say, tons of players arent stars but are worth some sort of investment. What matters is the return you provide on someones money. Have you ever heard of moneyball? Its a method of evaluating the rate of production and how much you should be paying based on his peers. Its how market prices are set for the most part, everyone has their own method. But if Tmac can return to even that low standard I set then hes worth some kind of investment, so long as hes able to produce in the playoffs. **** even if hes not able to go for the playoffs itll be worth the extra regular season games he helps, but if teams knew that ahead of signing then he wouldnt get money. Thats the whole risk and reward issue.


Tmac at this point has yet to recover from MF, but thats why I gave an example of a level of play he could return to (The 1 legged version in Houston), thats a fairly low standard and even that version of Tmac is worth around the MLE.


Ugh Im not talking about game types, Im talking about how teams will play him. They wont NEED him to go full bore for the regular season. Tmac is better in the halfcourt by the way, but its basically the same concept. Fading star being used sparingly during the regular season.


Incorrect, no team would go into a Tmac signing expecting him to play 82 games. Just like no team expects Shaq to do that, preferably youd want them to play as much as possible but you limit their minutes as to not wear them down. They will however see the value in having a player of his abilities, ready to contribute when the games matter most.


HUH? Every player to ever play carries some "type" of load. But your still proving my point, hes not being asked to carry a huge load so what makes you think they will expect him to be there every night? His addition is only meant to fortify a rotation thats already in place. Not to make any team a contender.


Yes thank you, thats what Ive been saying from the start.


You really dont know Tmac, he was talking about retirement when he was an All-Star, even though that was taken out of context, I dont think he was saying he would retire now. And it appears hes not, he didnt spend all that time rehabbing so that he could be done. It just doesnt add up. But hes definitely got more in the tank than what hes shown thus far, and if he can return to the form I was talking about, that would be enough of an accomplishment to warrant the investment.

I cant keep up with this, I like the discussion but I see you follow T-Mac's career much closely than the average NBA fan.

What team(s) do you think T-Mac fits best on if he plays next season?

What type of production(in averages) do you think T-Mac can provide that team next season?

PJAF
04-15-2010, 05:25 PM
If he is a hall of famer then so is Stephon Marbury.

ldc62
04-15-2010, 05:30 PM
I use to love Mac (no Homo), but his time has come to retire. At least hes not trying to steal Rings like Gary Payton.

JermanJaysFan
04-15-2010, 05:46 PM
Every time I come in the NBA forum and see this thread still not locked up. The guy never said he was retiring. On the contrary, he has come out and said that he WILL be playing next season...

Fire&Ice2&33
04-15-2010, 05:47 PM
Don't do it T-Mac! N yes he is a H.O.F.

kblo247
04-15-2010, 05:51 PM
He needs to watch tapes of the player that he was closest to in his career, Penny Hardaway.

Penny changed his game up to still be effective as he got older after his injury and Tracy can do the same as long as he accepts his limitations and is willing to play a role on a team.

Verbal Christ
04-15-2010, 06:56 PM
it will be interesting to see what happens after the full year following microfracture surgery. i think tmac handled things in houston way to prima donnaish and forced. he should have just said he wasnt ready to go instead of rushing a comeback. for what? he only proved many people right by showing the world he was broken down. seems like his ego is talking again by crying retirement. really sad. his playoff numbers alone should warrant some kind of HOF consideration however. regardless of advancement, he carried the load on some awful teams.

king4day
04-15-2010, 06:58 PM
He'll be back. Microfracture patients take 1-2 years (see Zach Randolph) to get back to normal form.
He should rest his body and start working out again.

Chronz
04-15-2010, 06:59 PM
I cant keep up with this, I like the discussion but I see you follow T-Mac's career much closely than the average NBA fan.

What team(s) do you think T-Mac fits best on if he plays next season?

What type of production(in averages) do you think T-Mac can provide that team next season?

If he returns to his 1 legged form then prolly no contender could really use him hed be more of use to a team devoid of scoring like the Bobcats off the bench, he could replace Hughes. If he can continue improving his set shooting the way he was doing when Artest arrived then any team could use him as a distributor.

Preuss-is-right
04-15-2010, 07:15 PM
Did anyone catch "best money doctors can buy"??

Kakaroach
04-15-2010, 07:34 PM
I highly doubt the guy retires, he still has a few serviceable years left but hey if he's injured nothing much you can do about it. And its not like the league will miss him that much anyway. :shrug: