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Hey Man
04-15-2010, 02:42 AM
Stats From Jan 1 2010
Shows totals and averages

Tyreke Evans
Games Played 44
Points 881 = 20.0 ppg
Assists 277 = 6.3 apg
Rebounds 236 = 5.4 rpg
Steals 68 = 1.5 spg
FG 321/705 = 45.5%
3PT FG 21/81 = 25.9%
FT 218/298 = 73.2%

Stephen Curry
Games Played 49
Points 1033 = 21.1 ppg
Assists 332 = 6.8 apg
Rebounds 241 = 4.9 rpg
Steals 95 = 1.9 spg
FG 389/829 = 46.9%
3PT FG 126/279 = 45.2%
FT 129/143 = 90.2%

Tyreke is much better at getting to the line and is slightly better at rebounding. Curry has better everything else and was 2 rebounds away from averging 20-5-5 in 2010. Curry is also a much better shooter.

Tyreke was obviously better in November and December than Curry but I think the award should go to Curry. It's not how you start, it's how you finish.

P.S. Winning should not be a part of ROY. The best rookies go to the worst teams so you shouldnt expect tyreke or curry to be winning alot. Just because Jennings is winning, it doesnt mean he should get the award. 37% FG should be automatic disqualification

sacgiants1213
04-15-2010, 02:45 AM
It's how you play all year. Not how you finish, not how you start. It's how you play from start to finish.

tredigs
04-15-2010, 02:48 AM
It's how you play all year. Not how you finish, not how you start. It's how you play from start to finish.

Do you agree that Curry has matured into the better player as the year progressed? Especially given the elite passing skills he started busting out of God knows where.

I agree that 'Reke should probably be ROY. He was consistent from start to finish. That should be rewarded. But, Steph has eclipsed him as the better player.

CowBoyS4LifE22
04-15-2010, 02:50 AM
I think he is.....The way he has progressed all year and basically taking this team away from Monta, he has shown that he will be an elite player for years to come. Also, not to mention he has been playing with up to 4 D leaguers at a time, and has won Rookie of the Month honors twice in 2010.
Here are some stats of Curry compared to Tyreke....Curry does have five 30 point 10 assist games(no other rookie has one game like that) as well as a triple double and the most 3's made ever by a rookie. he has scored 25 points 5 boards 5 assists 12 times this season, more than tyreke. he is the only rookie ever to score 27 points, 14 assists, 7 steals, and 8 rebounds. not to mention he has had to deal with other stars such as ellis and maggette whereas tyreke has had guys such as omri casspi and beno udrih....come on now curry could put up 20/5/5 with those guys as his supporting cast easily. he also ended his season with 42 points, 9 rebounds, 8 assists whereas Tyreke was thrown out of the game with only 10 points lol

STATS FOR 2009-2010:

Tyreke Evans: PPG-20.1...MPG-37:12...FG%-45.8...3 FG%-25.5...FT%-74.8...REB-5.3...AST-5.8...TO-3.0...STL-1.5...BLK-0.4


Stephen Curry: PPG-17.2...MPG-36:06...FG%-46.1...3 FG%-43.3...FT%-87.8...REB-4.4...AST-5.9...TO-3.1...STL-1.9...BLK-0.2


Curry's stats might not be as good, but the progression this kid has shown throughout the whole year makes him the ROY in my mind

Draco
04-15-2010, 02:50 AM
I don't see a problem with voters giving equal consideration for improvement and consistency. Is there a voting guideline that dictates consistency trumps improvement?

9ersownnfl
04-15-2010, 02:53 AM
http://www.nba.com/2010/news/features/04/13/rookie.rankings/index.html?ls=iref:nbahpt1

kenny smith hits the nail on the head with curry :clap:

DerekRE_3
04-15-2010, 02:54 AM
There's literally the exact same thread already, and there are like 5 ROY threads a day now.

JLynn943
04-15-2010, 02:58 AM
Do you agree that Curry has matured into the better player as the year progressed? Especially given the elite passing skills he started busting out of God knows where.

I agree that 'Reke should probably be ROY. He was consistent from start to finish. That should be rewarded. But, Steph has eclipsed him as the better player.

I really don't think that you can conclude that Curry is better than Evans. Sure Curry improved a lot over the year and finished strong, but Curry also had the benefit of playing in a dominant offense. That's naturally going to boost his stats. He's got better scorers to pass to and take defensive pressure off of him.

Tyreke meanwhile battled injury, was consistent, and still finished strong. (Not to mention 20-5-5). The difference with him though is that he plays in an offense that isn't nearly as explosive. Other teams know that Evans is the primary scorer and can focus on him, but Curry benefits by having other offensive weapons around him.

There's absolutely no way you can conclude that one is better than another. That's just homerism. They are both great and we will have to wait and see how their careers play out before making such a ridiculous statement.

9ersownnfl
04-15-2010, 03:00 AM
I would love to see curry operate against sefolosha, artest, bryant, battier, etc like tyreke has to every night. I dont think it would be right for someone who plays streetball every night to get ROY. RekeROY

sacgiants1213
04-15-2010, 03:11 AM
Do you agree that Curry has matured into the better player as the year progressed? Especially given the elite passing skills he started busting out of God knows where.

I agree that 'Reke should probably be ROY. He was consistent from start to finish. That should be rewarded. But, Steph has eclipsed him as the better player.

I don't agree that Curry is the better player. This isn't just an offensive game, and i love Evans defense compared to Curry's.

Monstars
04-15-2010, 03:14 AM
Steph Curry dropped 42 pts today against Portland. i believe he is way more talented than Evans. Evans is just an oversized pg that powers over small guards.

Hey Man
04-15-2010, 03:15 AM
I don't agree that Curry is the better player. This isn't just an offensive game, and i love Evans defense compared to Curry's.

Neither are great defenders. They are both average, but since Tyreke is bigger it is harder for teams to post him up. But curry is no slouch on D

tredigs
04-15-2010, 03:17 AM
I really don't think that you can conclude that Curry is better than Evans. Sure Curry improved a lot over the year and finished strong, but Curry also had the benefit of playing in a dominant offense. That's naturally going to boost his stats. He's got better scorers to pass to and take defensive pressure off of him.

Tyreke meanwhile battled injury, was consistent, and still finished strong. (Not to mention 20-5-5). The difference with him though is that he plays in an offense that isn't nearly as explosive. Other teams know that Evans is the primary scorer and can focus on him, but Curry benefits by having other offensive weapons around him.

There's absolutely no way you can conclude that one is better than another. That's just homerism. They are both great and we will have to wait and see how their careers play out before making such a ridiculous statement.

I don't think it's a very ridiculous statement at all. Subjective? Yes, definitely. But there's plenty of facts to support it. And I'm not saying he'll have the better career boss (too many factors go into that), just that at this point, right now, he is showing that he is a better player.

After Steph's dominant 8 games in April:

26.5 ppg - 6.4 rpg - 8.1 apg - 2.6 spg on 47% shooting (89.5% ft on 5 a/g) (47.2% three on 6.6 a/g)

He is going to walk away with the April Rookie of the Month award, and very possibly the April MVP award for the Western Conference.

I'm starting to retract my first thought on 'Reke as the ROY. That would give him 3 rookie of the month awards to 'Reke's 2. Might be a strong enough push that the voters kick him the award.

I'm an unabashed Warriors homer, but I'd like to think I'm pretty objective. If you can prove me wrong, feel free.

Kings Faithful
04-15-2010, 03:17 AM
I'll admit that Evans and Curry are both equal offensive threats... but on Defense their is no comparison. Evans dominates at his position and has even kept players like Chris Paul and Deron Williams in check. Curry can't do that. YET NO ONE SEEMS TO CARE! and the Evans hate machine continues. I swear to god, If Evans doesn't get the ROY I'm going to explode.

Hey Man
04-15-2010, 03:24 AM
I'll admit that Evans and Curry are both equal offensive threats... but on Defense their is no comparison. Evans dominates at his position and has even kept players like Chris Paul and Deron Williams in check. Curry can't do that. YET NO ONE SEEMS TO CARE! and the Evans hate machine continues. I swear to god, If Evans doesn't get the ROY I'm going to explode.

lol

tredigs
04-15-2010, 03:27 AM
I'll admit that Evans and Curry are both equal offensive threats... but on Defense their is no comparison. Evans dominates at his position and has even kept players like Chris Paul and Deron Williams in check. Curry can't do that. YET NO ONE SEEMS TO CARE! and the Evans hate machine continues. I swear to god, If Evans doesn't get the ROY I'm going to explode.

Can you prove that with something objective? I can objectively tell you that Stephen Curry is better at more facets of offense than Tyreke, or any other rookie, but I don't think Tyreke is any more than very marginally better than Steph on D. Their Defensive ratings are nearly identical (both poor -- but every D-rating of a Warrior's player is poor), and steph's adjusted NET +/- is much better than Tyreke's. When Curry is on the floor, the Warriors do better (by 2.7 points per 100), on the other hand when Tyreke is on the floor, the Kings get WORSE (by 4.7 points per 100). http://www.82games.com/0910/0910SAC.HTM

I think 'Reke will rectify that and that he actually will be a huge player for that organization, but I'm going to stand by the fact that he's not as good as Curry.

PS. Don't explode. Messy.

JLynn943
04-15-2010, 03:41 AM
Can you prove that with something objective? I can objectively tell you that Stephen Curry is better at more facets of offense than Tyreke, or any other rookie, but I don't think Tyreke is any more than very marginally better than Steph on D. Their Defensive ratings are nearly identical (both poor -- but every D-rating of a Warrior's player is poor), and steph's adjusted NET +/- is much better than Tyreke's. When Curry is on the floor, the Warriors do better (by 2.7 points per 100), on the other hand when Tyreke is on the floor, the Kings get WORSE (by 4.7 points per 100). http://www.82games.com/0910/0910SAC.HTM

I think 'Reke will rectify that and that he actually will be a huge player for that organization, but I'm going to stand by the fact that he's not as good as Curry.

PS. Don't explode. Messy.

And to do that you had to eliminate the first part of the year. Over the whole season, Evans has performed better. Besides, even if you eliminate the first part of the season like you did, the statistics are so close that it makes no sense to call one better than the other.

Also, you didn't address the issue of Curry playing in a much better offense either. Evans had to carry the Kings offense, and he single-handedly led them to a notably improved record this year. Curry had the advantage of playing with much better offensive players, and that boosts his stats. Add to that the defenders that both players draw, and I think the edge goes to Evans.

It's certainly close, and in a different year where they weren't matched up against each other, either player would win ROY easily. I just think that Evans deserves it more.

tredigs
04-15-2010, 03:54 AM
And to do that you had to eliminate the first part of the year. Over the whole season, Evans has performed better. Besides, even if you eliminate the first part of the season like you did, the statistics are so close that it makes no sense to call one better than the other.

Also, you didn't address the issue of Curry playing in a much better offense either. Evans had to carry the Kings offense, and he single-handedly led them to a notably improved record this year. Curry had the advantage of playing with much better offensive players, and that boosts his stats. Add to that the defenders that both players draw, and I think the edge goes to Evans.

It's certainly close, and in a different year where they weren't matched up against each other, either player would win ROY easily. I just think that Evans deserves it more.

Throughout the whole season Steph's still been the more efficient player, though with Evans being relied upon more on the Kings than Curry on the Dubs due to Monta's unwillingness (butthurtness) to get him touches to begin the year, 'Rekes raw stats look a bit better as a whole (the 20/5/5).

Beyond that, I'm not sure why you think the Warriors offense is so great, exactly? Is it their decimation of nearly every reliable starter to begin the year? Is it their lack of bigs? The fact that they had more D-leaguers on their roster than any team in the history of the NBA? I'm not exactly sure what part of that decimated roster you think is so impressive. They had a new lineup virtually every night of the season, most of which consisted of at least 2 d-leaguers. That is insanely hard for a PG to work with...

Consistency is king in pro sports. The kid did NOT have it easy, which makes what he did on a night to night basis that much more impressive IMO.

The bottom line is that I'm not exactly arguing that Steph absolutely deserves the award, but it should be a tough decision, and if they had to pick a "best rookie" award. I.e. had to do a re-draft and pick from here on out -- I would think that Steph is going first with most GM's.

B.JenningsMVP
04-15-2010, 03:59 AM
Co-ROY

/ all ROY threads lol

JLynn943
04-15-2010, 04:12 AM
Throughout the whole season Steph's still been the more efficient player, though with Evans being relied upon more on the Kings than Curry on the Dubs due to Monta's unwillingness (butthurtness) to get him touches to begin the year, 'Rekes raw stats look a bit better as a whole (the 20/5/5).

Beyond that, I'm not sure why you think the Warriors offense is so great, exactly? Is it their decimation of nearly every reliable starter to begin the year? Is it their lack of bigs? The fact that they had more D-leaguers on their roster than any team in the history of the NBA? I'm not exactly sure what part of that decimated roster you think is so impressive. They had a new lineup virtually every night of the season, most of which consisted of at least 2 d-leaguers, that is insanely hard for a PG to work with.

Consistency is king in pro sports. The kid did NOT have it easy, which makes what he did on a night to night basis that much more impressive IMO.

I'm saying that because of the system that the Warriors run. (Emphasis on run) Sure they had a ton of injuries and used a lot of D-Leaguers, but they still had the second highest PPG for a reason. Their system leads to a tremendous amount of offense, so in comparison to Tyreke, Curry's stats are inflated. Tonight is a perfect example of how that happens.



The bottom line is that I'm not exactly arguing that Steph absolutely deserves the award, but it should be a tough decision, and if they had to pick a "best rookie" award. I.e. had to do a re-draft and pick from here on out -- I would think that Steph is going first with most GM's.

I really like Curry and think he's going to be great for many years, but I just don't think that this is true at all. Evans, to me, has proven to be on the same level as Curry this season, but he still has a lot of room for improvement (like a consistent jumper). I think that his potential is absolutely huge, and that, based on what he has shown and where he can grow, GM's would pick him 1st more often than not. Curry would definitely be right behind him though.

Anyway, it's 4am here, so I'm gonna get some sleep...

tredigs
04-15-2010, 04:19 AM
I'm saying that because of the system that the Warriors run. (Emphasis on run) Sure they had a ton of injuries and used a lot of D-Leaguers, but they still had the second highest PPG for a reason. Their system leads to a tremendous amount of offense, so in comparison to Tyreke, Curry's stats are inflated. Tonight is a perfect example of how that happens.




I really like Curry and think he's going to be great for many years, but I just don't think that this is true at all. Evans, to me, has proven to be on the same level as Curry this season, but he still has a lot of room for improvement (like a consistent jumper). I think that his potential is absolutely huge, and that, based on what he has shown and where he can grow, GM's would pick him 1st more often than not. Curry would definitely be right behind him though.

Anyway, it's 4am here, so I'm gonna get some sleep...

Regardless of their pace though, Steph took less shots a game than 'Reke, and had a 21% Usage percentage to Tyreke's 26%. i.e. 'Reke still had more opportunity to inflate his stats than Curry.

Anyway, both bosses, excited to see players like them grow in this league. -- g'night.

$KnicksAndKobe$
04-15-2010, 10:29 AM
Just give them Co-ROY

I appreciate the stats Tredigs, Curry has been through hell in his team with all the crap (injuries) and all the crap coming (D league).

Evans has shown consistency but Curry has shown more growth.

I can see a Curry-Evans MVP debate for years to come.

DirkIsTheBest
04-15-2010, 11:20 AM
Curry >>>>>> Evans

billy17
04-15-2010, 04:12 PM
Consistency is king in pro sports. The kid did NOT have it easy, which makes what he did on a night to night basis that much more impressive IMO.


This sounds like a comment supporting Rekes ROY campaign..

One things that bugs me about all the stat whoring is that if you really break down the stats of every player in the league, the best players arent going to be the most efficient players. Theres no way Lebron is up there in efficiency..

My argument for Tyreke as the better player is that watching him all year showed me he can change the overall pace and momentum of a game. He gets into a groove and starts skipping around and just dissecting defenses. And to say that their defensive talent is comparable is ridiculous; even if it is due in large part to his size, Tyreke is already a great defender.

Your stats are pretty impressive, ill admit, but the stats dont completely make the player.

These threads are getting reeeally old

Edit: I havent seen ONE Curry supporter comment on how Tyreke has gone up against every teams best defender (and their defense schemed to stop him) EVERY night ALL year..

Hey Man
04-15-2010, 06:12 PM
Edit: I havent seen ONE Curry supporter comment on how Tyreke has gone up against every teams best defender (and their defense schemed to stop him) EVERY night ALL year..

Jason Thompson
Spencer Hawes
Kevin Martin / Carl Landry

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Monta Ballhog Ellis
Anthony Tolliver
Devean George
Coby Karl

montazingmvp
04-15-2010, 09:35 PM
This sounds like a comment supporting Rekes ROY campaign..

One things that bugs me about all the stat whoring is that if you really break down the stats of every player in the league, the best players arent going to be the most efficient players. Theres no way Lebron is up there in efficiency..

My argument for Tyreke as the better player is that watching him all year showed me he can change the overall pace and momentum of a game. He gets into a groove and starts skipping around and just dissecting defenses. And to say that their defensive talent is comparable is ridiculous; even if it is due in large part to his size, Tyreke is already a great defender.

Your stats are pretty impressive, ill admit, but the stats dont completely make the player.

These threads are getting reeeally old

Edit: I havent seen ONE Curry supporter comment on how Tyreke has gone up against every teams best defender (and their defense schemed to stop him) EVERY night ALL year..

lebron is actually in the top 5 of most efficient players in the league...which is incredible considering how much he has to do for his team...

his ts% is very high. and his ast/to ratio is pretty great itself...

Raph12
04-15-2010, 10:18 PM
Wow didn't know how well Curry's been playing since the New Year... But I want to see it for a full season before crowning him better than TyFreak.

Kingz4L
04-15-2010, 10:43 PM
Stats From Jan 1 2010
Shows totals and averages

Tyreke Evans
Games Played 44
Points 881 = 20.0 ppg
Assists 277 = 6.3 apg
Rebounds 236 = 5.4 rpg
Steals 68 = 1.5 spg
FG 321/705 = 45.5%
3PT FG 21/81 = 25.9%
FT 218/298 = 73.2%

Stephen Curry
Games Played 49
Points 1033 = 21.1 ppg
Assists 332 = 6.8 apg
Rebounds 241 = 4.9 rpg
Steals 95 = 1.9 spg
FG 389/829 = 46.9%
3PT FG 126/279 = 45.2%
FT 129/143 = 90.2%

Tyreke is much better at getting to the line and is slightly better at rebounding. Curry has better everything else and was 2 rebounds away from averging 20-5-5 in 2010. Curry is also a much better shooter.

Tyreke was obviously better in November and December than Curry but I think the award should go to Curry. It's not how you start, it's how you finish.

P.S. Winning should not be a part of ROY. The best rookies go to the worst teams so you shouldnt expect tyreke or curry to be winning alot. Just because Jennings is winning, it doesnt mean he should get the award. 37% FG should be automatic disqualification

First and foremost I love Curry's game..the guy is very fun to watch, but out of respect I do believe he was in a run and gun type of offense that made his numbers look that good...if he was in a half court type of team his assits per game would go up but his rebounding and ppg would go down due to the shot attempts that the entire team would take (he would still handle the ball all the time but would be more of a passing point guard instead of a shooting one)...because think about it...if you shoot 80-90 times a game you will get more rebounds...if you slow it down your team will average about 70 shots a game. If it was up to me I would give them Co-ROTY honors due to the fact that he still played well for the warriors and Evans kept us in a lot of games against good teams for the most part of our year, plus he achieved something only Legends have done (20,5,5).

CowBoyS4LifE22
04-15-2010, 11:10 PM
First and foremost I love Curry's game..the guy is very fun to watch, but out of respect I do believe he was in a run and gun type of offense that made his numbers look that good...if he was in a half court type of team his assits per game would go up but his rebounding and ppg would go down due to the shot attempts that the entire team would take (he would still handle the ball all the time but would be more of a passing point guard instead of a shooting one)...because think about it...if you shoot 80-90 times a game you will get more rebounds...if you slow it down your team will average about 70 shots a game. If it was up to me I would give them Co-ROTY honors due to the fact that he still played well for the warriors and Evans kept us in a lot of games against good teams for the most part of our year, plus he achieved something only Legends have done (20,5,5).

:facepalm:
I hate when people say that just because Curry was in a run and gun offense his numbers are inflated. look at who tyreke is playing with... absolutely nobody!!! the kings have trusted him since day 1 and thats why his numbers are the way they are. curry hasnt been the go to guy as he has been trying to take this team from monta. it wasnt until the new year until curry started getting some recognition and has been improving ever since. just look at his stats in april when the team was actually winning half their games hence the reason he won april rookie of the month

billy17
04-15-2010, 11:37 PM
Jason Thompson
Spencer Hawes
Kevin Martin / Carl Landry

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Monta Ballhog Ellis
Anthony Tolliver
Devean George
Coby Karl

WTF does that have to do with what I said?

sargon21
04-15-2010, 11:41 PM
currys a product of the system, really i feel bad for these GS players b/c unless ur an absolute superstar you will always be tagged as a "product of the system"

sargon21
04-15-2010, 11:43 PM
currys kind of having the progression rose did last year, but doing it in different ways

Kingz4L
04-15-2010, 11:46 PM
:facepalm:
I hate when people say that just because Curry was in a run and gun offense his numbers are inflated. look at who tyreke is playing with... absolutely nobody!!! the kings have trusted him since day 1 and thats why his numbers are the way they are. curry hasnt been the go to guy as he has been trying to take this team from monta. it wasnt until the new year until curry started getting some recognition and has been improving ever since. just look at his stats in april when the team was actually winning half their games hence the reason he won april rookie of the month

Look both of our teams suck but without Evans..we are a 17-65 again...plus we didnt have evans for 10-12 games this year...i think we could of won some of those games..but whether you hate it or not its the truth...look at what happen to steve nash last year when they had shaq...everyone thought he was done...but all of the sudden he is playing like he's 26 again because of their style of play (from half court to run and gun).

If curry had the #s he had from the beginning of the season then he would get my vote..but you cant just ignore November and December...thats like 30 games into the season...for awards its all about how you did the entire year...sorry man..i know you want curry to win but thats the truth.

iFYouSeekAmy
04-15-2010, 11:52 PM
Evans is a(n) one-dimensional player. All about penetrating and maybe kicking out for other players. Other than that, I see no mid-range - 3point shot.

Meanwhile, Curry can do all the opposites(of Evans), but lacks his penetration skills like Monta Ellis (Or Tyreke Evans).

billy17
04-15-2010, 11:52 PM
You just cant deny the fact that your stats are easier to come by when your coach says to go out there and run n gun, put points on the board, and put on a show.. Than when your coach has an offensive game plan and play set he wants you to get into. Who even knows where Rekes stats would be if they just ran the pick n roll all day.

Plus IMO Tyrekes lack of a jumpshot makes everything hes done that much more impressive. Night after night guys have backed off him, gone under screens on him, and sometimes just blatantly gave him shots w/o contesting. Even through this hes been able to get where he wants and create the play he sees.

iFYouSeekAmy
04-15-2010, 11:52 PM
Look both of our teams suck but without Evans..we are a 17-65 again...plus we didnt have evans for 10-12 games this year...i think we could of won some of those games..but whether you hate it or not its the truth...look at what happen to steve nash last year when they had shaq...everyone thought he was done...but all of the sudden he is playing like he's 26 again because of their style of play (from half court to run and gun).

If curry had the #s he had from the beginning of the season then he would get my vote..but you cant just ignore November and December...thats like 30 games into the season...for awards its all about how you did the entire year...sorry man..i know you want curry to win but thats the truth.

I might have forgotten, but did they make the playoffs that year?

Cain18
04-16-2010, 12:28 AM
I'll admit that Evans and Curry are both equal offensive threats... but on Defense their is no comparison. Evans dominates at his position and has even kept players like Chris Paul and Deron Williams in check. Curry can't do that. YET NO ONE SEEMS TO CARE! and the Evans hate machine continues. I swear to god, If Evans doesn't get the ROY I'm going to explode.

Get ready to explode after curry dropped 42, this just puts the cherry barely on top, going to be a very close vote, but im sure curry has shown that hes better than his daddy, lol.