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View Full Version : Congratz Dwight Howard!



Raph12
04-15-2010, 12:48 AM
Took this from the Kevin Durant appreciation thread...

After tonight, Dwight became the first player in NBA history to lead the league in field goal percentage, rebounds and blocks in the same season.

He also became the first player in NBA history to lead the league in blocks and rebounds in multiple seasons (let alone in consecutive seasons).

When the awards are handed out, he will also become the youngest player to win two DPOY awards.

He's regarded as the most overrated superstar in the league, but this season he's anchored his team on both ends, setting records on his path to leading his team to the second best record in the league (59-23).

Congratz young fella! It's going to be a blast watching him and Lebron battle for championships for years to come :clap:

Toenail Clipper
04-15-2010, 12:48 AM
Congrats! Only if he develops a monster offensive game. *Sigh

cheerio
04-15-2010, 12:49 AM
Going to be a fun battle

carter15
04-15-2010, 12:54 AM
represent

Mavrix
04-15-2010, 01:01 AM
I still don't have him better than a prime Shaq. He needs to dominate on the offensive end and he should with his size and physicality.

slack_justin
04-15-2010, 01:03 AM
congrats dwight. now just come to the pistons and replace big ben for us.

td0tsfinest
04-15-2010, 01:03 AM
Took this from my quote in the KD thread:

The future is bright for Dwight Howard.

Raph12
04-15-2010, 01:08 AM
I still don't have him better than a prime Shaq. He needs to dominate on the offensive end and he should with his size and physicality.

Well obviously, prime Shaq was damn near unstoppable on offense, he's untouchable on that end. Although Dwight is already leaps-and-bounds better than Shaq ever was on defense.

Mavrix
04-15-2010, 01:13 AM
Well obviously, prime Shaq was damn near unstoppable on offense, he's untouchable on that end. Although Dwight is already leaps-and-bounds better than Shaq ever was on defense.

Leaps and bounds better defensively? Is that a joke? lol. Shaq was dominant on the defensive end as well...he might not have been as great as a rebounder but he was a monster shot blocker and defensive presence.

Raph12
04-15-2010, 01:22 AM
Leaps and bounds better defensively? Is that a joke? lol. Shaq was dominant on the defensive end as well...he might not have been as great as a rebounder but he was a monster shot blocker and defensive presence.

Not really, there's a reason why Shaq's teams were never very good defensively. Shaq did block shots, but Dwight not only blocks shots, he alters shots, he gobbles up defensive rebounds and he even deters players from attacking the basket in the first place... He completely changes team offenses.

Only once was a team that Shaq was on a Top 5 defensive team in the league. Dwight's team has finished in the Top 5 on defense the last four times in his 6 season career, finishing 1st in the last two. Dwight presence and impact on defense is incomparable to Shaq's.

stawka
04-15-2010, 03:00 AM
Not really, there's a reason why Shaq's teams were never very good defensively. Shaq did block shots, but Dwight not only blocks shots, he alters shots, he gobbles up defensive rebounds and he even deters players from attacking the basket in the first place... He completely changes team offenses.

Only once was a team that Shaq was on a Top 5 defensive team in the league. Dwight's team has finished in the Top 5 on defense the last four times in his 6 season career, finishing 1st in the last two. Dwight presence and impact on defense is incomparable to Shaq's.

Dude I love Dwight and his defense is better than Shaq's in his prime, but WTF?! Are you serious??? Nobody in modern day era altered as many shots as Shaq. He doesn't even need to jump, just stand in the paint and that's enough defense from him - anything else like a block or an attempted block was a bonus.

Congrat's to Dwight. I love the young pup, and I wish him the best. He NEEDS to develop some more offense though -- NEEDS TO! Get it done this offseason

Krush
04-15-2010, 03:10 AM
Now he needs to learn how to shoot a freakin' free throw.

Iodine
04-15-2010, 08:48 AM
Gotta love the people that dont get how ****ing amazing Shaq was in his prime.

anyway D12 is a straight monster

JasonJohnHorn
04-15-2010, 09:10 AM
Why does everybody assume Howard is a lock for the DPOY? I mean, he is a great defender, and he is likely the most dominant defensive center in the paint, but I personally think Duncan is a better inside/outside defender, and there are some great defenders on the wing, such as Josh Smith, who not only gets almost as many blocks as Howard (impresive for a guy who is shorter and plays minutes at small forward as well as power forward), and he gets far more steals, and those are just his defensive stats. The dude can straight up shut guys down! I'd vote for Smith over Howard without hesitation, and Gerald Wallace would rank high on my DPOY voting. And lets not forget the MVP candiates that work their @$$e$ off on D: Kobe and LBJ.

Defence is not just about get blocks and banging in the paint.

jackdawson
04-15-2010, 09:47 AM
I still don't have him better than a prime Shaq. He needs to dominate on the offensive end and he should with his size and physicality.

You are crazy if you even think of it.

MagicDojo
04-15-2010, 11:19 AM
Not really, there's a reason why Shaq's teams were never very good defensively. Shaq did block shots, but Dwight not only blocks shots, he alters shots, he gobbles up defensive rebounds and he even deters players from attacking the basket in the first place... He completely changes team offenses.

Only once was a team that Shaq was on a Top 5 defensive team in the league. Dwight's team has finished in the Top 5 on defense the last four times in his 6 season career, finishing 1st in the last two. Dwight presence and impact on defense is incomparable to Shaq's.

Couldnt have said it any better.

domz248
04-15-2010, 11:29 AM
i hope he doesn't disappear like last years finals

Icebox922
04-15-2010, 11:44 AM
Couldnt have said it any better.

Makes me wonder, The guys posting on this site. Did they just started watching basketball?

Dwight Congrats , you deserve it... You dominated the centre postition.. "THIS ERA"

Prime SHAQ can dominate "ALL ERAs"


Don't forget that SHAQ played against ELITE CENTRES... People that can actually challenge him on offense.

Dwight's game reminds me of Alonzo Mourning .. Physical . Limited Offensive skills and Excellent shot blocker.

Now you cant say ALONZO MOURNING IS BETTER THAN SHAQ CAN YOU NOW?

bottom line is .. DWIGHT IS ARGUABLY THE BEST CENTRE IN THE LEAGUE "RIGHT NOW" Only because there are no GOOD CENTRES LEFT IN THE LEAGUE.

Raph12
04-15-2010, 12:17 PM
Blah, blah, blah :bla:

Stop ruining an appreciation thread with the Dwight-hate, let him have his glory moment and just congratulate the dude. He's not Shaq, no one said he is, now get on with your damn lives.

ballpd05
04-15-2010, 12:44 PM
I don't think he is better than Orlando Shaq.

TheRazorboy
04-15-2010, 12:57 PM
When did this turn into a NBA comparison thread? Did I miss something?

MaHaRaJaH
04-15-2010, 01:24 PM
Congrats! Only if he develops a monster offensive game. *Sigh

I think if he was the Main offensive focus of the game (ie give Rashard and VC and such less touches) He could put up Near Shaq like offensive numbers.

Iodine
04-15-2010, 01:33 PM
I think if he was the Main offensive focus of the game (ie give Rashard and VC and such less touches) He could put up Near Shaq like offensive numbers.

No, just no

magicdouglas
04-15-2010, 02:05 PM
Congrats big guy! looking forward to many more dominating years!

Anon
04-15-2010, 02:16 PM
Congrats Dwight. Now all you need to do is be the best offense player in the NBA while still dominating on defense and PSD users will respect you.

The Final Boss
04-15-2010, 02:20 PM
You are crazy if you even think of it.

:facepalm:

tjlipford
04-15-2010, 02:21 PM
Shaq in his prime would have annihilated Dwight Howard. Shaq was too good and too strong for Howard. LOL at the people saying that Howard is leaps and bounds better than Shaq on defense. At 37 Shaq still controls the paint better than anyone.

Nothing against Howard because he is a ****in beast. He has been showing a better offensive game as of late and if he gets polished on the offensive end then dam, as a Cavs fan I can even admit it is going to be hard to stop them from winning.

RadiantShot
04-15-2010, 03:09 PM
I still don't have him better than a prime Shaq. He needs to dominate on the offensive end and he should with his size and physicality.

What the hell does Shaq have to do with anything?

Give Dwight his damn credit man. This isn't going to be a "Dwight vs. Shaq" thread. This is to recognize Dwight's new accomplishment.

RadiantShot
04-15-2010, 03:11 PM
Haha. This is funny. Homers come in insulting Dwight like this. You'll ALL see come June. You'll all see.

Raph12
04-15-2010, 03:17 PM
Shaq in his prime would have annihilated Dwight Howard. Shaq was too good and too strong for Howard. LOL at the people saying that Howard is leaps and bounds better than Shaq on defense. At 37 Shaq still controls the paint better than anyone.

Nothing against Howard because he is a ****in beast. He has been showing a better offensive game as of late and if he gets polished on the offensive end then dam, as a Cavs fan I can even admit it is going to be hard to stop them from winning.

Only once in Shaq's 17 year career has his team finished top 5 in the NBA for dEFF, if he's this great defensive presence you talk about, why is his teams so bad defensively?... For the record, since his sophmore season, Dwight's team has finished top 5 defensively each year (4 times) and 1st for the last two seasons.

I agree that Shaq prime would destroy anyone on offense, but he was never the defensive player Dwight is. Dwight's impact on that end is unrivalled by anyone in this league, he's up there with some of the greatest defensive centers of all-time, and he's only 24 years old.

PLAYERS FAN
04-15-2010, 03:23 PM
Well obviously, prime Shaq was damn near unstoppable on offense, he's untouchable on that end. Although Dwight is already leaps-and-bounds better than Shaq ever was on defense.

I don't like big men that cares more about scoring than defense. Shaq never led the league in blocks or rebounds pathetic!

RadiantShot
04-15-2010, 03:29 PM
Why does everybody assume Howard is a lock for the DPOY? I mean, he is a great defender, and he is likely the most dominant defensive center in the paint, but I personally think Duncan is a better inside/outside defender, and there are some great defenders on the wing, such as Josh Smith, who not only gets almost as many blocks as Howard (impresive for a guy who is shorter and plays minutes at small forward as well as power forward), and he gets far more steals, and those are just his defensive stats. The dude can straight up shut guys down! I'd vote for Smith over Howard without hesitation, and Gerald Wallace would rank high on my DPOY voting. And lets not forget the MVP candiates that work their @$$e$ off on D: Kobe and LBJ.

Defence is not just about get blocks and banging in the paint.

Dwight's got the DPOY on lock, just like Lebron's got the MVP on lock. It's not a contest anymore.

Wow to the Josh Smith comment..

Dwight. Changes. Other. Team's. Offenses.

Tell me 3 other people in the history of basketball who do that.

SteveNash
04-15-2010, 03:52 PM
Dwight's got the DPOY on lock, just like Lebron's got the MVP on lock. It's not a contest anymore.

Wow to the Josh Smith comment..

Dwight. Changes. Other. Team's. Offenses.

Tell me 3 other people in the history of basketball who do that.

Over 50 players this year that did that.

RadiantShot
04-15-2010, 03:53 PM
Over 50 players this year that did that.

Keep telling yourself that, defensive king.

SteveNash
04-15-2010, 03:54 PM
Keep telling yourself that, defensive king.

You think teams don't scout other teams/players?

RadiantShot
04-15-2010, 03:56 PM
You think teams don't scout other teams/players?

They do, but they don't change their offensive approaches. Well, at least, they don't change it like how I'm talking about.

If a team comes in swinging from the beginning, and Dwight blocks a couple shots, they don't bring it in to the paint the rest of the night. That's the difference. Nobody changes offenses as much as he does, if anyone does at all.

Incublime24
04-15-2010, 03:57 PM
Not really, there's a reason why Shaq's teams were never very good defensively. Shaq did block shots, but Dwight not only blocks shots, he alters shots, he gobbles up defensive rebounds and he even deters players from attacking the basket in the first place... He completely changes team offenses.

Only once was a team that Shaq was on a Top 5 defensive team in the league. Dwight's team has finished in the Top 5 on defense the last four times in his 6 season career, finishing 1st in the last two. Dwight presence and impact on defense is incomparable to Shaq's.

and then...


Blah, blah, blah :bla:

Stop ruining an appreciation thread with the Dwight-hate, let him have his glory moment and just congratulate the dude. He's not Shaq, no one said he is, now get on with your damn lives.

haha. good stuff.

also, i don't understand why people are getting so upset with people making comparisons to Shaq. Are we supposed to come on here and just say congratulations to Dwight and that's it? I think it's nice to put his accomplishments into perspective to see how he stacks up against other greats.

As somebody mentioned before, a lot of what Dwight is doing can be seen as a result of the clear lack of talent at the center position in today's NBA. To me, Dwight is a better version of Ben Wallace. They both rebound and block shots like no other, but I don't think any of them in their prime were/are as good as Shaq in his prime.

RadiantShot
04-15-2010, 04:01 PM
and then...



haha. good stuff.

also, i don't understand why people are getting so upset with people making comparisons to Shaq. Are we supposed to come on here and just say congratulations to Dwight and that's it? I think it's nice to put his accomplishments into perspective to see how he stacks up against other greats.

As somebody mentioned before, a lot of what Dwight is doing can be seen as a result of the clear lack of talent at the center position in today's NBA. To me, Dwight is a better version of Ben Wallace. They both rebound and block shots like no other, but I don't think any of them in their prime were/are as good as Shaq in his prime.

Yes.

The thread isn't called, "Dwight just accomplished something, come in and compare him to Shaq."

"Dwight is a better version of Ben Wallace."

Ben Wallace never had half the talent Dwight does. He could never score as good as Dwight can/could. Dwight's a better defender as well. Put a prime Ben Wallace on this Magic team, and it would fail miserably.

Raph12
04-15-2010, 04:07 PM
and then...



haha. good stuff.

also, i don't understand why people are getting so upset with people making comparisons to Shaq. Are we supposed to come on here and just say congratulations to Dwight and that's it? I think it's nice to put his accomplishments into perspective to see how he stacks up against other greats.

As somebody mentioned before, a lot of what Dwight is doing can be seen as a result of the clear lack of talent at the center position in today's NBA. To me, Dwight is a better version of Ben Wallace. They both rebound and block shots like no other, but I don't think any of them in their prime were/are as good as Shaq in his prime.

You're an idiot, I was just addressing what another guys had posted, whether or not the talent at center is as good as it used to be, the overall talent in the league is much better now. Blocking shots now is much harder than it was back then, the guys attacking the basket are much more bigger and much more athletic and the bigs who'd normally be posting up are shooting jumpers, that's much harder to block than some 220-240lb center doing a hook shot. Also in today's league a lot more shots are being taken from further out, therefore there are a lot more longer rebounds to try and chase down.

Discrediting Dwight's achievement by saying the centers are weaker is stupid, I'll tell you one thing, put Hakeem, Mutombo, Russell, etc under the basket and Lebron will either jam all over them or get the foul and finish. It's a wing player's league now, much harder to put up rebounding/blocking stats than it was in those days.

runforrestrunx9
04-15-2010, 04:13 PM
I love D12 and think hes an absolute monster but he is nothing compared 2 a primed shaq... if he developes a nasty offensive game this summer, then we will re-evaluate next year...

Incublime24
04-15-2010, 05:51 PM
1. Yes.

2. The thread isn't called, "Dwight just accomplished something, come in and compare him to Shaq."

"Dwight is a better version of Ben Wallace."

3. Ben Wallace never had half the talent Dwight does. He could never score as good as Dwight can/could. Dwight's a better defender as well. Put a prime Ben Wallace on this Magic team, and it would fail miserably.

1. that would be a pretty boring thread, my friend.

2. thats clever.

it's not like people are going off topic. they are still talking about dwight howard and how his accomplishments, which you are congratulating him for, stack up against others in history. We aren't minimizing his accomplishments...we are just putting them in their proper place in history.

3. Hence Dwight Howard being a better version than Ben Wallace (in his prime). They are both defensive juggernauts (leading the league in rebounds and blocks), they both have high field goal percentages, they're both horrible from the line, and they're both limited offensively. Shaq's only weakness was his FT percentage. He may not have rebounded/blocked shots as well as Dwight (which some may argue, since Shaq averages more blocks per game in his career than does Dwight), but I'd say he wasn't as far behind Dwight in the rebound/blocking categories as Dwight is behind Shaq on the entire offensive side of the game. Shaq was truly amazing at both ends, not just one.

If Dwight is truly as great as he is and better than Shaq in his prime, then he will be setting records on both ends of the floor, not just one. And please don't use his high FG% as a way of saying he is good at offense. We all know that's just from throwing down a bunch of dunks, and not much else.

tredigs
04-15-2010, 06:05 PM
I don't like big men that cares more about scoring than defense. Shaq never led the league in blocks or rebounds pathetic!

Hahah @ pathetic. Talking about a guy who put up 23.4ppg 13.9rpg 3.5bpg for a season... his ROOKIE season. That would have been good enough to cruise to the rebounding/block title had it been this year.

The fact that the league was filled with better shot blockers and rebounders then isn't a detriment to Shaq, it's just a different league. Shaq competed with Olajuwon, Robinson, Ewing, Rodman, Mutombo and Mourning. Dwight competes with Zach Randolph and David Lee at the moment. This ain't 1995. Dwight's a center of the 90's playing with the Centers of Struggle.

Raph12
04-15-2010, 06:08 PM
Shaq was never the defensive force Dwight was and Dwight will never be the offensive force Shaq was... Leave it at that.

If you want to compare Dwight to someone, compare him to Bill Russell, arguably one of the greatest centers of all-time, yet more limited than Dwight offensively. :rolleyes:

SteveNash
04-15-2010, 06:08 PM
They do,

Thanks.


"Dwight is a better version of Ben Wallace."

Ben Wallace never had half the talent Dwight does. He could never score as good as Dwight can/could. Dwight's a better defender as well. Put a prime Ben Wallace on this Magic team, and it would fail miserably.

Ben Wallace was 5x the defender Dwight is. Put a prime Ben Wallace and the Magic probably win the championship last year.

tredigs
04-15-2010, 06:13 PM
Thanks.



Ben Wallace was 5x the defender Dwight is. Put a prime Ben Wallace and the Magic probably win the championship last year.

Nash does have a point on this one. Big Ben was a much better defender than Dwight overall. That guy was truly masterful on D. Dwight is the biggest force we have right now, but he really doesn't hold a candle to what Ben could do. He was so limited offensively it's tough to say whether or not the team would actually be better. But defensively? Yeah he kills.

tredigs
04-15-2010, 06:17 PM
Shaq was never the defensive force Dwight was and Dwight will never be the offensive force Shaq was... Leave it at that.

If you want to compare Dwight to someone, compare him to Bill Russell, arguably one of the greatest centers of all-time, yet more limited than Dwight offensively. :rolleyes:

Bill did a lot of things better than Dwight offensively -- mainly being an elite passer. And I have no reason to believe he wouldn't be better than Dwight defensively and as a rebounder as well.

How about we compare him to someone more contemporary if you're trying to play that game. David Robinson? Better defensively, and better offensively than Dwight.

Raph12
04-15-2010, 06:44 PM
Bill did a lot of things better than Dwight offensively -- mainly being an elite passer. And I have no reason to believe he wouldn't be better than Dwight defensively and as a rebounder as well.

How about we compare him to someone more contemporary if you're trying to play that game. David Robinson? Better defensively, and better offensively than Dwight.

The only thing Bill did better was pass the ball, I'll admit he was a much better passer, he didn't do anything else better on offense though.

You really underrate Dwight's defensive abilities, David was not a better defensive player than Dwight and if you think he was, than I can't help you.

Raph12
04-15-2010, 06:47 PM
Bill did a lot of things better than Dwight offensively -- mainly being an elite passer. And I have no reason to believe he wouldn't be better than Dwight defensively and as a rebounder as well.

How about we compare him to someone more contemporary if you're trying to play that game. David Robinson? Better defensively, and better offensively than Dwight.

Bill was a better passer, Dwight is a better everything else.

You terribly underrate Dwight's defensive abilities and to be honest, I don't feel like sitting on the computer defending Dwight all day long. It's obvious that idiots like you guys won't think Dwight's doing anything worth noting unless he avgs 30+ppg-15+rpg-4+bpg, so I don't really care to comment on these ignorant statements... I know what I know.

SteveNash
04-15-2010, 06:56 PM
The only thing Bill did better was pass the ball, I'll admit he was a much better passer, he didn't do anything else better on offense though.

You forgot winning. Russell wouldn't be considered nearly as good if he didn't win 2 NCAA championships + 11 NBA championships.

tredigs
04-15-2010, 06:58 PM
Bill was a better passer, Dwight is a better everything else.

You terribly underrate Dwight's defensive abilities and to be honest, I don't feel like sitting on the computer defending Dwight all day long. It's obvious that idiots like you guys won't think Dwight's doing anything worth noting unless he avgs 30+ppg-15+rpg-4+bpg, so I don't really care to comment on these ignorant statements... I know what I know.

hahah look at you seething, jesus. I underrate Dwight HOW, exactly? By saying he's the best defensive player of the past 3 years? The fact that you're tied so close to his nuts that you can't fathom that other people were better than him defensively is not my issue. The day Dwight finishes the year with numbers close to David Robinson's:

23.2 ppg - 12.2 rpg - 2.7 apg - 2.3 spg - 4.5 bpg and a D-rating of 94 (far from his lowest)

...THEN I'll happily concede that Dwight is indeed better than Robinson defensively. And we can move on the next step to players like Mutombo and Olajuwon. Until then, try to put his career in perspective for once in your life, or... enjoy the view.

sNaKeS
04-15-2010, 07:26 PM
For once I'm actually agreeing with SteveNash on something. Ben Wallace in his prime could SHUT DOWN a lot of centers, lets not forget what he did to shaq back in 2004 when the lakers had kobe, shaq, malone, and payton. Also, don't compare russell to dwight, russell is the biggest winner the nba/basketball has ever seen.

RadiantShot
04-15-2010, 07:26 PM
Dwight Howard right now on defense, is > than Ben Wallace was on defense. I don't see how anyone can say, "He's 5x the defender Dwight was." You obviously have no clue what you're talking about.

sNaKeS
04-15-2010, 07:28 PM
And for everyone comparing Dwight to prime Shaq, I'll point out 2 things.

1. Dwight is only 24, he is NOT in his prime yet just like Lebron is NOT in his prime yet.

2. Dwight does not choose who he plays, he just does the best he can at his position and help his team win. It's not his fault he doesn't play against great centers.

tredigs
04-15-2010, 07:29 PM
Dwight Howard right now on defense, is > than Ben Wallace was on defense. I don't see how anyone can say, "He's 5x the defender Dwight was." You obviously have no clue what you're talking about.

Prove to me why you think that Dwight's better defensively. After you're done -- I'll show you why Big Ben was better. "5x" is obviously hyperbole and garbage, just put that aside. Doesn't change the fact that he absolutely ran teams out of the building with his defensive and had the stats to back it up. Stats that D. Howard can't touch. And this was in the 2000's. So Raph's magical theory that the players of 15 years ago being slow, unathletic slobs doesn't apply here.

RadiantShot
04-15-2010, 07:33 PM
Prove to me why you think that Dwight's better. After you're done -- I'll show you why Big Ben was better.

Because I said so. Next thread.

LMAO. Man, I don't feel like digging up stats. Call me young. I'm 16. I've actually barely watched Big Ben play. I've seen Ben Wallace play when they were in the finals a few years ago. I know Ben Wallace is a great defender, I just don't think he changes Team's offenses, like Dwight does. I think Ben is a better man-on-man defender than Dwight, but to me, Dwight's a better team defender, which makes him better, to me at least, on the defensive end.

Honestly, I'm not being disrespectful, but enlighten me. I like learning something new. Tell me why Ben Wallace was the defensive force he was. Give me a few examples Tre.

SteveNash
04-15-2010, 07:51 PM
Ben was a much better team defender than man defender...

D Roses Bulls
04-15-2010, 07:52 PM
congrats howard, you sir are a beast.

tredigs
04-15-2010, 07:54 PM
Because I said so. Next thread.

LMAO. Man, I don't feel like digging up stats. Call me young. I'm 16. I've actually barely watched Big Ben play. I've seen Ben Wallace play when they were in the finals a few years ago. I know Ben Wallace is a great defender, I just don't think he changes Team's offenses, like Dwight does. I think Ben is a better man-on-man defender than Dwight, but to me, Dwight's a better team defender, which makes him better, to me at least, on the defensive end.

Honestly, I'm not being disrespectful, but enlighten me. I like learning something new. Tell me why Ben Wallace was the defensive force he was. Give me a few examples Tre.

Hah - Alright fair enough Radi. The bottom line is that it's an eye test thing for me. He was just a mean mother ****er that absolutely decimated everyone in his path. He had a five year stretch in the early to mid 2000's where he won 4 Defensive Player of the Year awards and even was the anchor for the '04 Championship Pistons team that decimated the Prime Shaq/Prime Kobe - Karl Malone Lakers 4 games to 1 in the NBA Finals. That team had no superstar, but they were defensive juggernauts that couldn't be stopped and had a few great role players in Chauncey and Rip, etc. No other team has won without a superstar in as long as I can ever remember.

Beyond that, he had years where he put up stat lines like this (2002/03):

6.9 ppg - 15.4 rpg - 1.4 spg - 3.2 bpg with a D-rating of 90.

his AVERAGE defensive rating for his career is 95, which is currently tied for Dwight's best season so far. He got as low as 87.

Bottom line, he was an absolute monster. Just look: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ul-kudvVlYE&feature=related


All that said, Dwight is still young and has plenty of time to keep this up/improve. But all we can go off is what he has done so far, because you never know when the injuries, etc could strike a big. But he has all the potential in the world to catch up to these guys if he continues to progress.

But the bottom line of what I'm trying to prove is that HE'S NOT there yet, so let's give the defensive legends their due.

tjlipford
04-15-2010, 08:19 PM
I know in Orlando Howard is there best player and all but stop saying that Shaq couldn't play D all that good and that he couldn't rebound that good.

He is not Shaq, will never be Shaq, and still can't dominate an old Shaq. I mean he had a good season and he lead th league in blocks and rebounds but stop acting like y'all forgot about Shaq and tryin to say he was better than Shaq in this category and that category. He does no dominate the game like Shaq did.

Let him be D Howard be ause Shaq was better than Howard at every age

RadiantShot
04-15-2010, 09:00 PM
^
Honestly, don't defend Shaq just because he came to the Cavs. I know for a fact that half the fans would never even bother protecting Shaq if he wasn't on their team. That's just what makes me mad. This isn't a Dwight vs. Shaq thread anymore. You no longer need to include the comparisons. Shaq isn't Dwight, Dwight isn't Shaq. They're two different players. Let that be enough.

RadiantShot
04-15-2010, 09:01 PM
Hah - Alright fair enough Radi. The bottom line is that it's an eye test thing for me. He was just a mean mother ****er that absolutely decimated everyone in his path. He had a five year stretch in the early to mid 2000's where he won 4 Defensive Player of the Year awards and even was the anchor for the '04 Championship Pistons team that decimated the Prime Shaq/Prime Kobe - Karl Malone Lakers 4 games to 1 in the NBA Finals. That team had no superstar, but they were defensive juggernauts that couldn't be stopped and had a few great role players in Chauncey and Rip, etc. No other team has won without a superstar in as long as I can ever remember.

Beyond that, he had years where he put up stat lines like this (2002/03):

6.9 ppg - 15.4 rpg - 1.4 spg - 3.2 bpg with a D-rating of 90.

his AVERAGE defensive rating for his career is 95, which is currently tied for Dwight's best season so far. He got as low as 87.

Bottom line, he was an absolute monster. Just look: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ul-kudvVlYE&feature=related


All that said, Dwight is still young and has plenty of time to keep this up/improve. But all we can go off is what he has done so far, because you never know when the injuries, etc could strike a big. But he has all the potential in the world to catch up to these guys if he continues to progress.

But the bottom line of what I'm trying to prove is that HE'S NOT there yet, so let's give the defensive legends their due.


Thanks for the information. Ben Wallace DOES look like Dwight. I think they're 2 players that have the same style, but I think the only exception was that Dwight may be a bit better offensively, but Ben Wallace over his career may be a bit better defensively. I think eventually Dwight's time will come, and he CAN get 4 DPOY's like Ben Wallace did, but I have no right to be ignorant about other players. I guess blood starts to boil whenever someone points out facts on other team's players, so it's understandable. ;)

TheRazorboy
04-15-2010, 09:06 PM
Dwight may be a bit better offensively

That's the understatement of the year.

blacknell
04-15-2010, 09:07 PM
i lost all respect for him last year in the finals

Iodine
04-15-2010, 09:09 PM
Shaq was never the defensive force Dwight was and Dwight will never be the offensive force Shaq was... Leave it at that.

If you want to compare Dwight to someone, compare him to Bill Russell, arguably one of the greatest centers of all-time, yet more limited than Dwight offensively. :rolleyes:

Dude..... you might be the dumbest **** ever

You realize after cooz retired the celtics ran their offense THROUGH Russ?

masalex1205
04-15-2010, 09:11 PM
Gotta love the people that dont get how ****ing amazing Shaq was in his prime.

anyway D12 is a straight monster

x1000

RadiantShot
04-15-2010, 09:20 PM
That's the understatement of the year.

I made an understatement because I didn't want a shitload of homers coming in here to bash me again. <3

bluesens
04-15-2010, 09:28 PM
congratz d. howard...don't you guys just love his smile? no homo..

RadiantShot
04-15-2010, 09:30 PM
^
I really do. ;)

Raph12
04-15-2010, 09:44 PM
Dude..... you might be the dumbest **** ever

You realize after cooz retired the celtics ran their offense THROUGH Russ?

The Celtics offense had never, AND I MEAN NEVER, ran through Russ. Not only was Russ a horrible offensive player, but he was limited to just being a garbage guy, not even a third option on most of their championship teams...

Here is a quote from a Celtics fan who has more knowledge on Celts history than most of the non-Celtic PSD fans combined;

Anchor? The D and rebounding for sure, but he was an ancillary piece on offense - in terms of scoring. He did a lot of nice passing, and got a good amount of put backs, but, he was not skilled in offense and he was not the primary option - EVER. Anyone that claims that Russell was ever ever ever the main scoring threat on his team in any year he played, is uninformed or worse.

Go check this thread out: Who was the main scoring/offensive option on the 60's Celtics? (http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showthread.php?t=460511)

Dude you're a joke, get your facts straight.

Raph12
04-15-2010, 09:59 PM
hahah look at you seething, jesus. I underrate Dwight HOW, exactly? By saying he's the best defensive player of the past 3 years? The fact that you're tied so close to his nuts that you can't fathom that other people were better than him defensively is not my issue. The day Dwight finishes the year with numbers close to David Robinson's:

23.2 ppg - 12.2 rpg - 2.7 apg - 2.3 spg - 4.5 bpg and a D-rating of 94 (far from his lowest)

...THEN I'll happily concede that Dwight is indeed better than Robinson defensively. And we can move on the next step to players like Mutombo and Olajuwon. Until then, try to put his career in perspective for once in your life, or... enjoy the view.

David was a defensive beast when he came into the league, but really started to fade after his third season defensively. So yes, right in the beginning of his career, you could make a case for him being better defensively than Dwight. My list of centers that were better than Dwight defensively over most of their career, looks like this: Hakeem Olajuwon and Dikembe Mutombo.

Dwight is 24 and I expect him to eclipse each and every one of those guys when his career is said and done, but for now, he's still up there with the elite IMO. Not to mention he's a better rebounder than each and every one of those guys. The only rebounder I put ahead of Dwight is Rodman, and that's because he was a specialist, arguably one of, if not the best, role player of all time.

Stop looking at per game numbers and take into account actual; rebounding rate, shot blocking rate, basket protection, paint protection and the team's overall defensive efficiency. Take those stats into consideration, and Dwight's in some pretty elite company.

RadiantShot
04-15-2010, 10:19 PM
^
Don't bother Raph. No point.

LA_Raiders
04-15-2010, 10:32 PM
amazing...

Chronz
04-15-2010, 11:24 PM
The only thing Bill did better was pass the ball, I'll admit he was a much better passer, he didn't do anything else better on offense though.

You really underrate Dwight's defensive abilities, David was not a better defensive player than Dwight and if you think he was, than I can't help you.

I think D-Rob was better defensively, can you help me?

Chronz
04-15-2010, 11:31 PM
The Celtics offense had never, AND I MEAN NEVER, ran through Russ. Not only was Russ a horrible offensive player, but he was limited to just being a garbage guy, not even a third option on most of their championship teams...

Here is a quote from a Celtics fan who has more knowledge on Celts history than most of the non-Celtic PSD fans combined;


Go check this thread out: Who was the main scoring/offensive option on the 60's Celtics? (http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showthread.php?t=460511)

Dude you're a joke, get your facts straight.
I dont think you understand the point behind running your offense through someone, he may not have gotten the shots but he decided who did because he would find great angles for his teammates. But yea he wasnt on Dwights level offensively, atleast not without knowing how many offensive rebounds he grabbed.

tredigs
04-16-2010, 07:57 AM
David was a defensive beast when he came into the league, but really started to fade after his third season defensively. So yes, right in the beginning of his career, you could make a case for him being better defensively than Dwight. My list of centers that were better than Dwight defensively over most of their career, looks like this: Hakeem Olajuwon and Dikembe Mutombo.

Dwight is 24 and I expect him to eclipse each and every one of those guys when his career is said and done, but for now, he's still up there with the elite IMO. Not to mention he's a better rebounder than each and every one of those guys. The only rebounder I put ahead of Dwight is Rodman, and that's because he was a specialist, arguably one of, if not the best, role player of all time.

Stop looking at per game numbers and take into account actual; rebounding rate, shot blocking rate, basket protection, paint protection and the team's overall defensive efficiency. Take those stats into consideration, and Dwight's in some pretty elite company.

Started to fade defensively? He was a beast in his later years, that was the most amazing thing about the Admiral. Dude was timeless. Even numbers wise, go ahead and look at his 98/99 season when the guy was 33 years old. Averaged a double double with 1.4 steals, 2.4 blocks and had a D-rating of 88. If that's fading, then D. Howard must be dead.

edit: Give me a reason to believe that Howard's shot-blocking rate/defensive protection, etc. was better than Robinson's in his prime years. Prove your point my man, and we'll take it from there.

$ NyC $
04-16-2010, 08:59 AM
Pretty Good argument. If only Dwight developed that aggression and killer instinct.

Hawkeye15
04-16-2010, 09:43 AM
Started to fade defensively? He was a beast in his later years, that was the most amazing thing about the Admiral. Dude was timeless. Even numbers wise, go ahead and look at his 98/99 season when the guy was 33 years old. Averaged a double double with 1.4 steals, 2.4 blocks and had a D-rating of 88. If that's fading, then D. Howard must be dead.

edit: Give me a reason to believe that Howard's shot-blocking rate/defensive protection, etc. was better than Robinson's in his prime years. Prove your point my man, and we'll take it from there.

2 things, and I am not disagreeing, just pointing it out
David's rookie season did not come at 18 years old. Not even close. So by 33, he was only 700 games into his career, which is not a lot of wear and tear.
Secondly, have you seen him recently? He is an absolute specimen physically. He is a freak condition wise, so he was gonna last anyways.

Again, not disagreeing with you at all, just pointing out that Robinson was not a typical player in regards to timeline

Raph12
04-16-2010, 12:57 PM
Started to fade defensively? He was a beast in his later years, that was the most amazing thing about the Admiral. Dude was timeless. Even numbers wise, go ahead and look at his 98/99 season when the guy was 33 years old. Averaged a double double with 1.4 steals, 2.4 blocks and had a D-rating of 88. If that's fading, then D. Howard must be dead.

edit: Give me a reason to believe that Howard's shot-blocking rate/defensive protection, etc. was better than Robinson's in his prime years. Prove your point my man, and we'll take it from there.

Well first of all, D-Rob came into the league at 24 years of age, so he already was basically in his prime physically speaking. He was an army guy, so his conditioning was unrivalled, he was a beast physically throughout his career and like someone mentioned about, he didn't have much wear-and-tear on his body even when he was 33.

Although his per game stats were impressive throughout his career, his blocking rate would eclipse 6.0 only one more time throughout the rest of his career, not to mention his defensive rebounding rate was always mediocre at best. Also, his career best defensive win shares in a season was 7.6, Dwight accomplished that last season, playing 3 less games than David, and if he didn't have a slow start this season, he'd eclipse that mark again. His defensive rating was impressive throughout his career, but if you take into account his teammates defensive ratings in the seasons where his rating has been impressive, most of his teammates were in the same vicinity of his rating, making it not so impressive.

The fact that Dwight's surrounded by subpar-to-slightly above average defenders makes his team's defensive stats that much more impressive. D-Rob was always surrounded by guys who were always finishing with defensive ratings of 99 or less (not taking the first three seasons into account)... Like I said, you could make a case for him being better in the first three years, but after that, he's been a good/great defensive player, just not on Dwight's level. Btw don't get me started on Tim Duncan's impact on the team defensively.