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View Full Version : Is Kobe Bryant At His Peak Or Is He Declining?



R_O_W_E
04-14-2010, 09:26 PM
Is this the best Kobe has been during his career, or is he slowly declining yearly due to age?

If so, what year do you think was his peak as a player?

kArSoN RyDaH
04-14-2010, 09:30 PM
i think kobe has had a couple peak years, one being the year he scored 81 and had 10 50 point games and the other being last year where he did everything in his will to win tha ring he failed to win the previous year. however this year the only reason his #s are declining is because of his injuries. some might argue that that is a result of his age but i beg to differ. the guy works out and his body is physically fit to withstand injuries. ill look for kobe next year to have an amazing year because most people are already discounting him as a top 2-3 player in the league with guys like durant and melo on the rise alongside wade.

celtsballa21
04-14-2010, 09:32 PM
Kobe is past his prime. Even though he isnt at his peak he really isnt declining obviously. He will most likely coast with similiar numbers until he retires. You would probably see a bigger decline if he had the same roster he did before Pau and Artest came.

DCB/LAL
04-14-2010, 09:38 PM
Kobe is in his Prime......all I gotta say is have you seen his HAND?!

Any basketball players performance would be affected with a hand as bad as his he's just that good that he still manages to be a top player in this league even with a fu**ed up hand....... this summer he'll rest it(hopefully) and next year he'll be ready to roll.

TheKing23
04-14-2010, 09:40 PM
He's on the decline. That's not to say he's not a top 3 player in the league, but he's definitely declining.

kArSoN RyDaH
04-14-2010, 09:41 PM
dcb/lal

yeaa i agree bro. i think kobe will come back next year full throttle after resting this summer with a chip on his shoulder. especially WHEN the lakers win this year. hes going to want that 3 peat.

29$JerZ
04-14-2010, 09:43 PM
It's only natural you'll start declining, especially with the amount of years he has in the NBA.
He won't drop off fast like some do but you'll see him lose some stats each year imo.

AI4MVP
04-14-2010, 09:43 PM
hes declinging. its kinda sad too. he cant do some of the things he used to be able to do and doesnt make some of the shots he used to make. its prolly injuries, but he isnt getting any younger either. IMO LeBron, Durant, and Wade are better players then Kobe right now

montazingmvp
04-14-2010, 09:47 PM
Kobe is in his Prime......all I gotta say is have you seen his HAND?!

Any basketball players performance would be affected with a hand as bad as his he's just that good that he still manages to be a top player in this league even with a fu**ed up hand....... this summer he'll rest it(hopefully) and next year he'll be ready to roll.

a lot of players play with the same kind of hand injuries...

you'll notice most nba players hands are wrapped up...

kobe's a fantastic talent but stop putting him on a freaking pedestal...as if he's some god that age and injuries will never catch up to...

the fact of the matter is kobe's body is in decline...just like everyone else when they turn 30...he can't jump like he used to, he can't withstand injuries like he used to...and he can't recover from injuries like he used to...

sorry to burst your bubble but kobe is a human being and he isn't going to avoid the physiological break down that the body goes through as we age...

Bruno
04-14-2010, 09:49 PM
He's been at his peak for long time, and he's somewhere on the final half of this plateau. Its hard to really judge right now becuase he's playing injured. But earlier this year he was putting up a career high FG% before the broken finger. He's still on top, but its towards the end.

Fireworld
04-14-2010, 09:49 PM
Hard to tell with all the injuries. If I had to guess now, I'd say declining.

madiaz3
04-14-2010, 09:50 PM
a lot of players play with the same kind of hand injuries...

you'll notice most nba players hands are wrapped up...

kobe's a fantastic talent but stop putting him on a freaking pedestal...as if he's some god that age and injuries will never catch up to...

the fact of the matter is kobe's body is in decline...just like everyone else when they turn 30...he can't jump like he used to, he can't withstand injuries like he used to...and he can't recover from injuries like he used to...

sorry to burst your bubble but kobe is a human being and he isn't going to avoid the physiological break down that the body goes through as we age...

Uhh, not one NBA player besides him have played with nearly as severe a hand injury (on the dominant) and for as long without treating it.

bmanjones
04-14-2010, 09:53 PM
I think he is over the peak. I think he will have similar numbers to this year in 2011 and 2012 and then he will start to decline. Which sucks not because im a lakers fan but just cause you only see a few players like him in your lifetime. Im from philly and i remember him at lower merion and watching him his whole career in the NBA. Shame he forgot his roots and is to holywood for his hometown now....

Red Hot Rolllin
04-14-2010, 09:56 PM
He has either lost a step or is playing injured or he is coasting haha but he is off of late.

Raph12
04-14-2010, 09:57 PM
Well before Pau came back to start the season, Kobe lead the Lakers to a 9-3 lead, scoring over 32ppg, sounds like prime right there.

tredigs
04-14-2010, 09:59 PM
I'll sum this thread up:

If you're a Laker/Kobe fan, he is simply struggling due to multiple injuries (which have nothing to age or the sheer amount of games he plays every year), and will come back next year to reclaim his crown as the king of the world.

Everyone else: Yes, he's obviously shown to be on the decline this year. The injuries are a result of tens of hundreds of games with little to no rest year after year and his body is beginning to age because of it. This time next season, it will be undeniable to even the Lakers fans (who am I kidding?).

stawka
04-14-2010, 09:59 PM
I'd say he's at his later stages of his peak, but will always be effective. His offensive game is ridiculous and no longer relies on athleticism so it will always be there

don't mean to bring LBJ into this, but Kobe is at his peak and LeBron is better than him, what does that say about LeBron who we don't know if he's peaked yet because he's getting better year by year

kArSoN RyDaH
04-14-2010, 10:01 PM
Well before Pau came back to start the season, Kobe lead the Lakers to a 9-3 lead, scoring over 32ppg, sounds like prime right there.

yeaa people are forgetting in the beginning of the season kobe was the favorite for mvp and he was leading the league in scoring. i dont think hes declining. hes still in his prime. when will his prime end? well that is up to kobe imo. guy has done so many amazing things i wouldnt doubt it if he is able to keep up his dominance for 3-4 years to come.

tredigs
04-14-2010, 10:05 PM
yeaa people are forgetting in the beginning of the season kobe was the favorite for mvp and he was leading the league in scoring. i dont think hes declining. hes still in his prime. when will his prime end? well that is up to kobe imo. guy has done so many amazing things i wouldnt doubt it if he is able to keep up his dominance for 3-4 years to come.

Lmao the favorite for MVP??? For what, 9 games? He was able to withstand about a month of health, after that he had about 5 different injuries hampering him. This is natural of an aging player. I would bet you anything that you'd like that Kobe Bryant never wins another MVP award. He's still damn good when he wants to be, but he's quite obviously showing his age. He isn't even able to try on defense for an entire game, it's telling...

chitownbears89
04-14-2010, 10:06 PM
He is plateauing

Kingz4L
04-14-2010, 10:09 PM
yeaa people are forgetting in the beginning of the season kobe was the favorite for mvp and he was leading the league in scoring. i dont think hes declining. hes still in his prime. when will his prime end? well that is up to kobe imo. guy has done so many amazing things i wouldnt doubt it if he is able to keep up his dominance for 3-4 years to come.

Im not trying to piss all the laker fans off but didnt he shoot 30 times per game during that 9-3 stretch (plus they started the first half of the season at home playing scrubs)?

Its not about the ppg...its about the speed,lift,endurance,fatigue, etc. if you think he has that like he used to then your just a fanboy and not a realist.

Not saying he sucked every game..he had great games this year but a lot of his 30 point games came off from a lot of jump shooting instead of dunks and layups.

Avenged
04-14-2010, 10:10 PM
Due to injuries you can't really tell. The injuries might be due to the fact that he is on the decline and his body just can't withstand it anymore. It would be much easier to tell if he was 100% healthy, but even if he is declining he is still better than any other NBA player except for arguably a handful of players which depends on how you guys determine the best players.

LAcowBOMBER
04-14-2010, 10:11 PM
I'll sum this thread up:

If you're a Laker/Kobe fan, he is simply struggling due to multiple injuries (which have nothing to age or the sheer amount of games he plays every year), and will come back next year to reclaim his crown as the king of the world.

Everyone else: Yes, he's obviously shown to be on the decline this year. The injuries are a result of tens of hundreds of games with little to no rest year after year and his body is beginning to age because of it. This time next season, it will be undeniable to even the Lakers fans (who am I kidding?).

The injuries aren't due to him logging a lot of games. A hand doesn't wear down, it's injured. It's not like he has bad knees or something.

All I know is, he wasn't declining last year and he's playing really well now, even not considering his injury. We will know for sure if he's healthy next year, but until then I'm not going to say he's declining

Raph12
04-14-2010, 10:11 PM
Lmao the favorite for MVP??? For what, 9 games? He was able to withstand about a month of health, after that he had about 5 different injuries hampering him. This is natural of an aging player. I would bet you anything that you'd like that Kobe Bryant never wins another MVP award. He's still damn good when he wants to be, but he's quite obviously showing his age. He isn't even able to try on defense for an entire game, it's telling...

That's the key right there, it's like I said, I still hold Kobe in very high regard and feel like he's still the best in the league when he wants to be, but I'll wait to let Lebron prove me wrong in the playoffs.

LAcowBOMBER
04-14-2010, 10:14 PM
Im not trying to piss all the laker fans off but didnt he shoot 30 times per game during that 9-3 stretch (plus they started the first half of the season at home playing scrubs)?

Its not about the ppg...its about the speed,lift,endurance,fatigue, etc. if you think he has that like he used to then your just a fanboy and not a realist.

Not saying he sucked every game..he had great games this year but a lot of his 30 point games came off from a lot of jump shooting instead of dunks and layups.

His physical skills are not all the same, but they weren't last year either or even the year he had 81 and a number of other amazing feats. He is still playing basketball better than he has been before. It's not about ppg, but it's also not about physical skills. It's about his ability to be productive

jim51990
04-14-2010, 10:15 PM
decline
on a constant basis he cant bring it every night

montazingmvp
04-14-2010, 10:16 PM
Uhh, not one NBA player besides him have played with nearly as severe a hand injury (on the dominant) and for as long without treating it.

didn't know you were so familiar with every nba players hands...but seriously...there are a lot of players with hand injuries...you're just familiar with bryants because he's on the team you follow...

KBfrom8to24
04-14-2010, 10:17 PM
He's on the decline. That's not to say he's not a top 3 player in the league, but he's definitely declining.

What if your boy LBJ have injuries like Kobe had? Can he perform this year better than Kobe even nursing with multiple injuries? Declining? Are you insane? Say what you want to say against Kobe, but your boy LBJ has nothing to prove yet. Until now, in my own opinion, LBJ is the most overhype player in the league ever.

kArSoN RyDaH
04-14-2010, 10:17 PM
Lmao the favorite for MVP??? For what, 9 games? He was able to withstand about a month of health, after that he had about 5 different injuries hampering him. This is natural of an aging player. I would bet you anything that you'd like that Kobe Bryant never wins another MVP award.

try 12. why would i like it if kobe doesnt win another mvp award? you dont make any sense. who is to say kobe wouldnt have maintained that pace in the beginnning of the season for the whole season had he not been injured? kobe was shooting above his career fg% during that span and had a string of 40+ point games.



He's still damn good when he wants to be, but he's quite obviously showing his age. He isn't even able to try on defense for an entire game, it's telling...

thats because he can and has the "want to" that no other player in the nba has (at least on kobes level). he also doesnt even have to play full on defense like he has in the past with artest on the lakers. thats artests job. kobes job is to just worry about offense and in late game situations take over on defense and shut a guy down.

montazingmvp
04-14-2010, 10:18 PM
Well before Pau came back to start the season, Kobe lead the Lakers to a 9-3 lead, scoring over 32ppg, sounds like prime right there.

are we talking about his athletic prime here or what?

Kingz4L
04-14-2010, 10:19 PM
His physical skills are not all the same, but they weren't last year either or even the year he had 81 and a number of other amazing feats. He is still playing basketball better than he has been before. It's not about ppg, but it's also not about physical skills. It's about his ability to be productive

Hey he'll always be productive...If KG is still productive even though hes limping out there then so be it...A lot of people think that 31 is prime...thats true if you came in the leage like Wade..age 22 or 23...but if you came in the NBA at age 17 nigg your really 36 out there with all the miles you ran...look whats happening to KG.

LTS
04-14-2010, 10:20 PM
Prime year he scored 81 on the decline but a better shooter now

montazingmvp
04-14-2010, 10:21 PM
yeaa people are forgetting in the beginning of the season kobe was the favorite for mvp and he was leading the league in scoring. i dont think hes declining. hes still in his prime. when will his prime end? well that is up to kobe imo. guy has done so many amazing things i wouldnt doubt it if he is able to keep up his dominance for 3-4 years to come.

yeah...and then because of his age, injuries caught up to him after a long season...and he is now struggling...

you gotta look at the big picture...not just one little part of a season...

tim duncan was playing fantastic at the beginning of the season...but then he began to slow down a bit...(not as drastically as bryant).

because duncan played well for a short time this season, he isn't in decline?

kArSoN RyDaH
04-14-2010, 10:21 PM
What if your boy LBJ have injuries like Kobe had? Can he perform this year better than Kobe even nursing with multiple injuries? Declining? Are you insane? Say what you want to say against Kobe, but your boy LBJ has nothing to prove yet. Until now, in my own opinion, LBJ is the most overhype player in the league ever.

not to turn this into an lbj vs kobe thing but i highly doubt it. if i recall correctly lebron sat out with a fnger injury on his non shooting hand whereas kobe plays through it.

Toenail Clipper
04-14-2010, 10:22 PM
just injuries.

montazingmvp
04-14-2010, 10:23 PM
The injuries aren't due to him logging a lot of games. A hand doesn't wear down, it's injured. It's not like he has bad knees or something.

All I know is, he wasn't declining last year and he's playing really well now, even not considering his injury. We will know for sure if he's healthy next year, but until then I'm not going to say he's declining

yeah but you're more prone to injuries anywhere on your body as you age...and you're slower to heal from them when you're older...which is clearly happening here with kobe...

he tried to play through like he did when he was younger...but he couldn't play through and be effective at the same time

kArSoN RyDaH
04-14-2010, 10:23 PM
i guess we will know next year after kobes finger heals this offseason. we will see...

masalex1205
04-14-2010, 10:24 PM
If Kobe isn't on the decline its about to start. The guy has played in tons of games since high school including numerous playoff stretches. He's just got a lot of miles on his body. Guys like Nash/Duncan are the exception and didn't come into this league straight from high school.

montazingmvp
04-14-2010, 10:26 PM
What if your boy LBJ have injuries like Kobe had? Can he perform this year better than Kobe even nursing with multiple injuries? Declining? Are you insane? Say what you want to say against Kobe, but your boy LBJ has nothing to prove yet. Until now, in my own opinion, LBJ is the most overhype player in the league ever.

lol...lebron has been playing better than kobe for 2 years now (atleast)...we don't need the media to tell us this to figure it out.

you look at raw stats, lebrons are better....you look at advanced stats, lebron is better...

then you look at his teams success, despite playing with pretty average talent around him...and its pretty obvious...

Toenail Clipper
04-14-2010, 10:30 PM
lol...lebron has been playing better than kobe for 2 years now (atleast)...we don't need the media to tell us this to figure it out.

you look at raw stats, lebrons are better....you look at advanced stats, lebron is better...

then you look at his teams success, despite playing with pretty average talent around him...and its pretty obvious...

Nah, LeBron's team is pretty packed right now.

DodgerBulls
04-14-2010, 10:36 PM
Passed his peak and declining because of injuries/age, more on injuries but that is also because of age.

montazingmvp
04-14-2010, 10:38 PM
Nah, LeBron's team is pretty packed right now.

yeah his team was on its way to the best record in the league for the second year in a row...before antawn came around.

his team was hardly stacked before antawn got there. they weren't terrible, just average without lebron...

thus why lebron leads the league in win shares...(close atleast)

Avenged
04-14-2010, 10:51 PM
yeah his team was on its way to the best record in the league for the second year in a row...before antawn came around.

his team was hardly stacked before antawn got there. they weren't terrible, just average without lebron...

thus why lebron leads the league in win shares...(close atleast)

Who cares? Lebron is the MVP and the best player this season.

His team is stacked and they compliment him very well.

As far as Kobe goes, how quick are you guys to kick someone when he's down? Whether you think he's on the decline or not, he does have multiple injuries on his hand. I for one don't think he's at his peak, but isn't declining either. I'd say he's steady and his injuries have really taken a toll on him.

heathonater
04-14-2010, 10:53 PM
hes right on the edge between being in his prime and declining. i think he will slowly decline for the next few years, but will still be a top 3 nba player during that time.

Kingz4L
04-14-2010, 10:58 PM
yeah his team was on its way to the best record in the league for the second year in a row...before antawn came around.

his team was hardly stacked before antawn got there. they weren't terrible, just average without lebron...

thus why lebron leads the league in win shares...(close atleast)

I dont know if you want to say his team is packed...without him they are a 30-35 win team...did you guys not watch their latest games without him?

heatking
04-14-2010, 10:59 PM
Have you seen Kobe in the clutch this year?

JNA17
04-14-2010, 11:00 PM
There are times where people give smart responses and actually think before they post and there is most of the time where the true intelligence of PSD shows in a really bad way. And unfortunately once again, this is the 2nd one.

For almost the whole first half of the season, kobe has practically been the favorite for MVP but the injures have caught up a lot this season. For a while he was averaging over 31 points. His legs have been damaged and his index finger on his shooting hand really bothered him, which it would for any player because i had that same thing happen to me.

Well it was more jammed then broken but still, when you can't use your index finger on your shooting hand, your shot will look very awkward when you try to shoot, because if you try to shoot your normal way, it will hurt like a *****. Which has been the case for kobe this whole season, he had to litterly shoot in a different form just to get by this season and do it effectively and that is no easy task. I would love to see other players with this injury (i don't mean i hope another player gets injured) just to see how they would deal with it. Because i really doubt they would still score even half as effectively as kobe have this season.

And even with that finger he has still played well over 70 games where im sure for most players including elite players, they would have been out for over 40 games.

Obviously im using injures as an excuse, but that's what has been the "thing" for him this season. He's been banged up for about 2 or 3 seasons without any sort of surgery or relaxation to heal his injures. I think when kobe looks to heal his injures this off-season and the new regular season begins, kobe will be back in full force. I guarantee it and i will sig bet that with anybody.

So im sure if anybody actually read my post just now, my answer is he's still in his prime. Personally im not worried about him declining yet, all i see right now is just half a kobe bryant out there and waiting for the other half to come back next season. Or maybe an early return in the playoffs.

Either way, PSD NBA Forums community here has a very funny way of changing there minds and having a very narrow view of things, it seems to be pretty common here.

I'll even be honest, I'm a lakers fan, and Kobe is one of my favorite players so im sure if other people here wanted quote my post and call my post bias, maybe it is, but i know that i will always be an NBA fan first and even though it's hard, i try to be as non-bias as i can and i never just say things to help support my bias, i only say what i believe in. Because what most fans for players do is that sometimes, for example, a melo fan (just an example don't take it seriously) and know wade is a better player deep down, they still try to defend melo as if he was better then wade. I have never done that with kobe or any other player at all yet. I have always been true to what i say.

Ok i'm done :D

Avenged
04-14-2010, 11:00 PM
I dont know if you want to say his team is packed...without him they are a 30-35 win team...did you guys not watch their latest games without him?

Yeah but at this point they really aren't playing for anything. You can argue that they're not giving it their all. Sure the Cavs won't win the East without Lebron or be top 3, but they would make the playoffs IMO.

Chronz
04-14-2010, 11:05 PM
Hes been on the decline for awhile now

showtym24
04-14-2010, 11:06 PM
Before he hurt his hand he was killin it shooting a career high 49%. He's at his peak.

Miltown34
04-14-2010, 11:06 PM
He's declining, but at the same time he's at his peak, when you play over 13-14 years at 32 (in August). Athletically he is already starting 2 slow down, but he's so good and so athletic that he is still in better physical condition than most players.

Miltown34
04-14-2010, 11:10 PM
Declining doesn't mean Kobe isn't really close 2 where he was, he's more perimeter oriented now, he is slowing going down. He can't get up as high or dunk on people like that...that means someone is starting 2 decline, but he still will be an elite player 4 awhile

LAcowBOMBER
04-14-2010, 11:13 PM
yeah but you're more prone to injuries anywhere on your body as you age...and you're slower to heal from them when you're older...which is clearly happening here with kobe...

he tried to play through like he did when he was younger...but he couldn't play through and be effective at the same time

He has definitely been effective. He's still top 4 this year and I'm saying 4th just to avoid arguments. I'm confident that a healthy Kobe is gona play even better next year

LAcowBOMBER
04-14-2010, 11:14 PM
Hey he'll always be productive...If KG is still productive even though hes limping out there then so be it...A lot of people think that 31 is prime...thats true if you came in the leage like Wade..age 22 or 23...but if you came in the NBA at age 17 nigg your really 36 out there with all the miles you ran...look whats happening to KG.

KG is a 7 footer and is more prone to breaking down and breaking down fast. Kobe doesn't have an injury caused by fatigue or breaking down. He injured his hand and will be much better next year when it's healed

montazingmvp
04-14-2010, 11:51 PM
Who cares? Lebron is the MVP and the best player this season.

His team is stacked and they compliment him very well.

As far as Kobe goes, how quick are you guys to kick someone when he's down? Whether you think he's on the decline or not, he does have multiple injuries on his hand. I for one don't think he's at his peak, but isn't declining either. I'd say he's steady and his injuries have really taken a toll on him.

how am i kicking him when he's down...

i just don't think he's at his peak...what does that tell us...? he's atleast declined a little bit.

montazingmvp
04-14-2010, 11:53 PM
He has definitely been effective. He's still top 4 this year and I'm saying 4th just to avoid arguments. I'm confident that a healthy Kobe is gona play even better next year

i meant to say less effective...for his standards he hasn't been effective at all for the past couple weeks

Avenged
04-14-2010, 11:56 PM
how am i kicking him when he's down...

i just don't think he's at his peak...what does that tell us...? he's atleast declined a little bit.

No I wasn't referring to you. I don't think he's at his peak either.

shep33
04-15-2010, 12:00 AM
I just wanna say that he's been injured basically all year and has still put up 27, 5, and 5. Haha if thats declining thats pretty dang insane. I don't think people realize the difficulty of playing with a finger basically in a cast. No way other players would've played through the injury kobe has had, and even Kobe playing at about 70% most of the year he's putting up ridiculous numbers.

If you watched the Lakers early on without Pau, Kobe was the leader for MVP until he broke his finger. Guy was shooting 50% and scoring 40 with ease on multiple nights.

I think thats what puts Kobe ahead of other guys in my books. He could've easily said okay, i'm gonna shut it down for 3-4 months, but then the Lakers would likely have been a 6-7 seed, but he played through it at produced at a high level.

shep33
04-15-2010, 12:03 AM
He's declining, but at the same time he's at his peak, when you play over 13-14 years at 32 (in August). Athletically he is already starting 2 slow down, but he's so good and so athletic that he is still in better physical condition than most players.

agree, he's smarter then most too. We look at guys like VC, Tmac, and other guards/SF's, and Kobe is still right there at the top. He wasn't a great jumpshooter before, but he transformed his game so he can work out of the post and score much easier as he ages. Heck he even met with Hakeem in the offseason to learn. How many other players would do that?

Kingz4L
04-15-2010, 12:14 AM
a lot of these arguments arent going anywhere...all the lakers fans think its his finger and everyone else thinks its his age...Ill just say that his finger has been broken for 2 years now...whether he jammed it or not still makes him 31 years old..he is not as explosive like he was...he takes jumpshots in most of the games...Phil Jackson clearly said that he lost his lift and that hes dead weight...again people the issue is not the finger...its his knees...for christ sake just accept it...i just went to the Lakers webpage to check out his recent history and its got knees written all over it.

tredigs
04-15-2010, 12:15 AM
There are times where people give smart responses and actually think before they post and there is most of the time where the true intelligence of PSD shows in a really bad way. And unfortunately once again, this is the 2nd one.

For almost the whole first half of the season, kobe has practically been the favorite for MVP but the injures have caught up a lot this season. For a while he was averaging over 31 points. His legs have been damaged and his index finger on his shooting hand really bothered him, which it would for any player because i had that same thing happen to me.

Well it was more jammed then broken but still, when you can't use your index finger on your shooting hand, your shot will look very awkward when you try to shoot, because if you try to shoot your normal way, it will hurt like a *****. Which has been the case for kobe this whole season, he had to litterly shoot in a different form just to get by this season and do it effectively and that is no easy task. I would love to see other players with this injury (i don't mean i hope another player gets injured) just to see how they would deal with it. Because i really doubt they would still score even half as effectively as kobe have this season.

And even with that finger he has still played well over 70 games where im sure for most players including elite players, they would have been out for over 40 games.

Obviously im using injures as an excuse, but that's what has been the "thing" for him this season. He's been banged up for about 2 or 3 seasons without any sort of surgery or relaxation to heal his injures. I think when kobe looks to heal his injures this off-season and the new regular season begins, kobe will be back in full force. I guarantee it and i will sig bet that with anybody.

So im sure if anybody actually read my post just now, my answer is he's still in his prime. Personally im not worried about him declining yet, all i see right now is just half a kobe bryant out there and waiting for the other half to come back next season. Or maybe an early return in the playoffs.

Either way, PSD NBA Forums community here has a very funny way of changing there minds and having a very narrow view of things, it seems to be pretty common here.

I'll even be honest, I'm a lakers fan, and Kobe is one of my favorite players so im sure if other people here wanted quote my post and call my post bias, maybe it is, but i know that i will always be an NBA fan first and even though it's hard, i try to be as non-bias as i can and i never just say things to help support my bias, i only say what i believe in. Because what most fans for players do is that sometimes, for example, a melo fan (just an example don't take it seriously) and know wade is a better player deep down, they still try to defend melo as if he was better then wade. I have never done that with kobe or any other player at all yet. I have always been true to what i say.

Ok i'm done :D

No, he wasn't. And no, he wasn't. He was solid for about 1 month, and for not even three weeks at any point was he averaging 31 a game. At no point were his numbers better than Lebron's, and at no point were the Lakers better than the Cavs. When Pau was out and he had to do everything on offense, his numbers were great. Then, Pau came back (the team got better), and he began to break down. Simple as that. Still a great player, but undoubtedly breaking down --and I believe he is going to find himself being passed left and right by younger, more superior players.

Avenged
04-15-2010, 12:28 AM
No, he wasn't. And no, he wasn't. He was solid for about 1 month, and for not even three weeks at any point was he averaging 31 a game. At no point were his numbers better than Lebron's, and at no point were the Lakers better than the Cavs. When Pau was out and he had to do everything on offense, his numbers were great. Then, Pau came back (the team got better), and he began to break down. Simple as that. Still a great player, but undoubtedly breaking down --and I believe he is going to find himself being passed left and right by younger, more superior players.

This is all true. But you can't just dismiss his injury. It's not really an excuse (at least not for me) but I'd like to think that Kobe would be playing better if he was 100%. Sure you can argue that he's on the decline because of age, but he's still playing at a high level, just not as high as he once was or higher than some other elite players. He will most definitely be passed as everyone else does but he still has a couple years left in him to be at the top a long with the other elites.

kblo247
04-15-2010, 12:36 AM
a lot of these arguments arent going anywhere...all the lakers fans think its his finger and everyone else thinks its his age...Ill just say that his finger has been broken for 2 years now...whether he jammed it or not still makes him 31 years old..he is not as explosive like he was...he takes jumpshots in most of the games...Phil Jackson clearly said that he lost his lift and that hes dead weight...again people the issue is not the finger...its his knees...for christ sake just accept it...i just went to the Lakers webpage to check out his recent history and its got knees written all over it.

It is actually his hand and his ankle.

Kevin Mchale pointed out on Fan Night that the knuckles on Kobe's ring, index, and middle fingers are just badly swollen and the finger is broke. Kobe said the doctors told him he would have to his whole hand from his fingers to wrist placed in a hard cast and immobilized for 8-12 weeks for that to heel.

If you want to look back though, he hurt that same ankle that Elton Brand fell on the back of and Odom stepped on in the the 3rd quarter of the Hawks game.

He shot 46% for the month of March and actually 53% in the stretch of games before that until he sprained that ankle again by landing on Joe Johnson's foot. Richard Jefferson falling on the back of his legs in the Spurs game didn't help matters but that ankle is what is bothering him. You can go through Kobe's history from day 1 to see ankle sprains always give him more trouble than knee tenditis, back spasms, separated shoulders, or broken fingers as he has always played poorly for 2 weeks or so after returning from every ankle sprain.

As for the topic, he isn't at his peak and he hasn't declined. He is in limbo since he is still elite especially when you objectively look at his actual season as a whole:


1178 - games he has played in
43495 - minutes he has played
46% shooting for a SG and the equivalent of his career average
27ppg on the same exact shot per minute ratio as last year
5 rpg is good when you have Odom at 10, Pau at 11, Ron at 5, and Drew at 8
5 apg which is right with Jordan, Pippen, and himself in the triangle
best defensive rating for any SG in the league
+/- differential that is second only to Wade by a tenth of a point when it comes to being on and off the court for his team as a SG


He has a percentage that is basically equivalent to his fg % for his career and mvp year, a 3pt percentage that is 2% lower despite shooting almost a 100 less, and a ft% that is 2% less with two broken fingers on his shooting hand is a considerable drop?

Screw scoring the same, logging more minutes, rebounding the same, stealing the ball the same, holding opponents to lower numbers, having the same amount of assists while handling the ball less, and being an even better closer this year right?

The only thing you can knock is athleticism and he is still as athletic as last year when that ankle is right and he hasn't relied on speed or leaping ability as much as skill since he separated his shoulder and hurt his knee in the first round versus Minnesota in 03.

showtym24
04-15-2010, 12:46 AM
a lot of these arguments arent going anywhere...all the lakers fans think its his finger and everyone else thinks its his age...Ill just say that his finger has been broken for 2 years now...whether he jammed it or not still makes him 31 years old..he is not as explosive like he was...he takes jumpshots in most of the games...Phil Jackson clearly said that he lost his lift and that hes dead weight...again people the issue is not the finger...its his knees...for christ sake just accept it...i just went to the Lakers webpage to check out his recent history and its got knees written all over it.

He reinjured his finger in december, and its more than just the finger he's had numerous other injuries this year. BAD LUCK (back, ankle, knee) He's lost some atheltisim but he's still at his peak. He redefined his game much like jordan. He was dominating in the beginning of season when he was healthy. The post up moves he worked on with hakeem were on full display.

Mavrix
04-15-2010, 01:33 AM
He's declining very slowly but it's not noticable.

footballer2369
04-15-2010, 01:56 AM
It is actually his hand and his ankle.

Kevin Mchale pointed out on Fan Night that the knuckles on Kobe's ring, index, and middle fingers are just badly swollen and the finger is broke. Kobe said the doctors told him he would have to his whole hand from his fingers to wrist placed in a hard cast and immobilized for 8-12 weeks for that to heel.

If you want to look back though, he hurt that same ankle that Elton Brand fell on the back of and Odom stepped on in the the 3rd quarter of the Hawks game.

He shot 46% for the month of March and actually 53% in the stretch of games before that until he sprained that ankle again by landing on Joe Johnson's foot. Richard Jefferson falling on the back of his legs in the Spurs game didn't help matters but that ankle is what is bothering him. You can go through Kobe's history from day 1 to see ankle sprains always give him more trouble than knee tenditis, back spasms, separated shoulders, or broken fingers as he has always played poorly for 2 weeks or so after returning from every ankle sprain.

As for the topic, he isn't at his peak and he hasn't declined. He is in limbo since he is still elite especially when you objectively look at his actual season as a whole:


1178 - games he has played in
43495 - minutes he has played
46% shooting for a SG and the equivalent of his career average
27ppg on the same exact shot per minute ratio as last year
5 rpg is good when you have Odom at 10, Pau at 11, Ron at 5, and Drew at 8
5 apg which is right with Jordan, Pippen, and himself in the triangle
best defensive rating for any SG in the league
+/- differential that is second only to Wade by a tenth of a point when it comes to being on and off the court for his team as a SG


He has a percentage that is basically equivalent to his fg % for his career and mvp year, a 3pt percentage that is 2% lower despite shooting almost a 100 less, and a ft% that is 2% less with two broken fingers on his shooting hand is a considerable drop?

Screw scoring the same, logging more minutes, rebounding the same, stealing the ball the same, holding opponents to lower numbers, having the same amount of assists while handling the ball less, and being an even better closer this year right?

The only thing you can knock is athleticism and he is still as athletic as last year when that ankle is right and he hasn't relied on speed or leaping ability as much as skill since he separated his shoulder and hurt his knee in the first round versus Minnesota in 03.

Why do Kobe fans continue to falsify stats??

Wade has a 103 d rating, Kobe has a 104 d rating... It was better last year too.

SouljahPhil...
04-15-2010, 02:10 AM
No, he wasn't. And no, he wasn't. He was solid for about 1 month, and for not even three weeks at any point was he averaging 31 a game. At no point were his numbers better than Lebron's, and at no point were the Lakers better than the Cavs. When Pau was out and he had to do everything on offense, his numbers were great. Then, Pau came back (the team got better), and he began to break down. Simple as that. Still a great player, but undoubtedly breaking down --and I believe he is going to find himself being passed left and right by younger, more superior players.

Epic fail... ugghhhhh

CowboysKB24
04-15-2010, 02:24 AM
He is still in his prime right now. He isn't as athletic as he used to be, but he is much smarter now. He has a post game that he didn't have when he was younger. He doesn't smash the ground and collide with players as often. He is older and little bit more fragile than he used to be. Better leader now too.

This post season will tell a lot on Kobe. But I do think his decline will come around 33/34 He hasn't lost it yet. He still puts up 27 points a game, that is superb. That is "bad" for Kobe because his expectations are so high and it shouldn't be like that.

OaklandsFinest
04-15-2010, 02:24 AM
Kobe is definitely declining and its due to the fact he's played 12 years and significant minutes for most of em. You can tell that he coasts, often doesnt bring that defensive intensity unless he has to, and he's not the athlete he used to. Still a top 5 player but is not better than Wade or LB. In this first playoff series I think you'll see it when he's going against Sefolosia and when the Thunder test the Lakers and push them to their limits. Kobe will have a great game 1 because he's had rest, but his numbers will decline throughout the series. Oh and for those of you expecting a big seson from him next year, guess again he's playing internationally so no rest

ChiSox219
04-15-2010, 02:35 AM
Kobe is definitely declining and its due to the fact he's played 12 years and significant minutes for most of em. You can tell that he coasts, often doesnt bring that defensive intensity unless he has to, and he's not the athlete he used to. Still a top 5 player but is not better than Wade or LB. In this first playoff series I think you'll see it when he's going against Sefolosia and when the Thunder test the Lakers and push them to their limits. Kobe will have a great game 1 because he's had rest, but his numbers will decline throughout the series. Oh and for those of you expecting a big seson from him next year, guess again he's playing internationally so no rest

Great post.

tredigs
04-15-2010, 02:37 AM
Epic fail... ugghhhhh

Lmao, yeah? Prove ANY of that wrong.

silvTeg98
04-15-2010, 02:39 AM
hes at his peak. you guys shouldve seen him before he injured his finger, he was playing great. i remember there was even a segment on NBATV arguing that this was the best kobe we've seen. its a shame hes had an injury plagued season but he was still able to average 27 pts a game. i expect him to decline in about 3 years.

tredigs
04-15-2010, 02:41 AM
hes at his peak. you guys shouldve seen him before he injured his finger, he was playing great. i remember there was even a segment on NBATV arguing that this was the best kobe we've seen. its a shame hes had an injury plagued season but he was still able to average 27 pts a game. i expect him to decline in about 3 years.

Contrary to popular belief, the rest of America had television before December of 2009. We saw him. And you're right -- he was great. Then injuries/fatigue caught up with him, and what we're left with is a fading star. Fading star that can still kill it for stretches, and is in no way not a top 2-6 player still, but fading none the less.

silvTeg98
04-15-2010, 03:01 AM
Contrary to popular belief, the rest of America had television before December of 2009. We saw him. And you're right -- he was great. Then injuries/fatigue caught up with him, and what we're left with is a fading star. Fading star that can still kill it for stretches, and is in no way not a top 2-6 player still, but fading none the less.

no need to be a smartass. all of america doesnt always watch laker games so they didnt see him beasting it on a nightly basis. He was shooting 49% before the injuries. its obvious that injuries like a broken finger, sprained ankle, and back spasm will affect your game. next season kobe will be back and running on all cylinders.

tredigs
04-15-2010, 03:39 AM
no need to be a smartass. all of america doesnt always watch laker games so they didnt see him beasting it on a nightly basis. He was shooting 49% before the injuries. its obvious that injuries like a broken finger, sprained ankle, and back spasm will affect your game. next season kobe will be back and running on all cylinders.

It's all I know.

DCB/LAL
04-15-2010, 03:44 AM
This is all true. But you can't just dismiss his injury. It's not really an excuse (at least not for me) but I'd like to think that Kobe would be playing better if he was 100%. Sure you can argue that he's on the decline because of age, but he's still playing at a high level, just not as high as he once was or higher than some other elite players. He will most definitely be passed as everyone else does but he still has a couple years left in him to be at the top a long with the other elites.

Actually its not an excuse its a fact that if your not a 100% your play is gonna suffer most of these guys arguing otherwise have either 1.) NEVER played the game and are just basketball nerds(which seems likely from reading alot of these peoples posts) or 2.) Just ignore the fact that injuries(no matter what your age) occure and affect your play.


And for people saying "well injuries are happening because he's getting old" all I gotta tell you guys is quit being an IDIOT! Its his hand that is injured(once again this proves that these guys probably have never played the game of basketball) and hand injuries happen when you drive and when people poke at the ball and slap your hands it may look like they dont hurt but jamming your thumb or dislocating your fingers can happen especially when you play as many games as Kobe has in this case he has broken fingers which is worse than just jamming your thumb etc... anyone who has played basketball would know this and wouldn't have to be told this.

Type of injuries that show signs of a player on the decline and his body wearing out would when players sit out with back injuries or knee injuries(take for example Shaq, Dikembe, T-Mac or Alonzo Mouring) that show your legs cant take it no more and obviously will show your not the same player you use to be his hand will heal its not like he carries weight on his hands he dribbles a ball and shoots with it so obviously its gonna affect him once it heals it'll be fine.


I really cant believe many believe he is wearing down because he has a HAND InJURY! Com'on people if you've played basketball you should know hand injuries happen they heal and YES THEY AFFECT YOUR PLAY stop being dumb......Sometimes I cant believe some of the things people say on here just to try and sound smart and make themselves sound right if you've played you should know.

J-Relo
04-15-2010, 03:44 AM
peak - few years ago (when he was 27)

JayW_1023
04-15-2010, 04:56 AM
He is declining, but only physically. He is still the second best player in the league. And his adding to his game allows him to stay on top. What he loses in explosivness he gains in skills. He never stops working.


However, I'm kinda fumbled that alot of fans who said Manu was declining (while he was injured) are now saying Kobe isn't declining BECAUSE he is injured.

JiffyMix88
04-15-2010, 06:02 AM
to me this is a dumb question hes not going to get better so he'll always be on the decline from here on out

Hawkeye15
04-15-2010, 07:52 AM
His numbers point to the beginning of decline. Add the number of games he has played, and the various nagging injuries he has suffered, and I think the best of Kobe Bryant is behind us

Hellcrooner
04-15-2010, 08:08 AM
declining

avrpatsfan
04-15-2010, 08:21 AM
On the decline.

JasonJohnHorn
04-15-2010, 09:16 AM
Kobe is better than he has ever been. His post game has improved dramatically this year (which is going to give him a great offensive tool as he enters his thirties- a tact Jordan employed to maintain his longevity), has been better in the clutch this year than he ever has (he hit a career high of game winning shots- in years past it was guys like Fischer and Horry that were hitting the game winners), his shot selection has been better the last two years than throughout his entire career (though he still forces it some games), and his defence is better (or at least as good) as it has ever been (he's let guys score in the finals in the past, like Ray Allen and Rip Hamilton- but he wouldnt be likely to do that this year).

Some of his averages may be down, but that is because he plays on a deeper team than he has in the past, his own game is better than its ever been and will likely remain at this level for at least another two or three years considering how seriously he takes his conditioning.

Still, LBJ is even better than that ;-)

Sly Guy
04-15-2010, 09:21 AM
Is this the best Kobe has been during his career, or is he slowly declining yearly due to age?

If so, what year do you think was his peak as a player?

he's been in decline since his dad's sperm met his mom's egg. Shoulda seen the hopps it took to reach her vulva.

JasonJohnHorn
04-15-2010, 09:25 AM
Declining doesn't mean Kobe isn't really close 2 where he was, he's more perimeter oriented now, he is slowing going down. He can't get up as high or dunk on people like that...that means someone is starting 2 decline, but he still will be an elite player 4 awhile

I havent counted Kobe's dunks, but the dude still has an amazing verticle. He can jump, and just because a guy doesnt dunk as much doesnt mean its not because he cant, but rather (in Kobe's case at least) it means that he has diversified his offensive game. He's a better shooter than he was early in his career, he's a much better post player this year, and he uses his mid-range jumper and post moves more so that defences cant play him one way.

Just because a guy doesnt attack the rim as much doesnt mean they are on the decline.

I can see where you might assume that a decline at attacking the rim might mean a decline since guys like Carter and McGrady have both slowed down and have both attacked the rim less and are in turn less effective than they were, but Kobe doesnt rely as heavily on that one part of his game.

mikantsass
04-15-2010, 09:26 AM
Kobe is on the decline. Some may say injuries are the reason for his play this season, I say injuries show you that he is on the decline. Aging/Declining players are injury prone and struggle to return from injuries

TheKing23
04-15-2010, 09:35 AM
As Charles Barkley says... "Old people don't get healthy, they die"

G-Funk
04-15-2010, 10:39 AM
A player on his prime is a player who is still athleticly talented and a wise b-ball player at the same time. That's where Kobe is.

G-Funk
04-15-2010, 10:42 AM
lol...lebron has been playing better than kobe for 2 years now (atleast)...we don't need the media to tell us this to figure it out.

you look at raw stats, lebrons are better....you look at advanced stats, lebron is better...

then you look at his teams success, despite playing with pretty average talent around him...and its pretty obvious...

gtfo, last 2 years Kobe was MVP and Finals MVP lmao

G-Funk
04-15-2010, 10:46 AM
He is declining, but only physically. He is still the second best player in the league. And his adding to his game allows him to stay on top. What he loses in explosivness he gains in skills. He never stops working.


However, I'm kinda fumbled that alot of fans who said Manu was declining (while he was injured) are now saying Kobe isn't declining BECAUSE he is injured.

I also remember fans saying that Wade was done a few years ago, I guess a player can't get injured or he's considered old

G-Funk
04-15-2010, 10:53 AM
Hey guys Boozer is Injured, I guess he's aging, hey Roy is injured I guess he's body is just too old. retards

Kobe2324
04-15-2010, 10:54 AM
I Would say he is still at his peak, he might not be quite as athletic but everything else is better than in the past. This year was just a bad year of injuries, that finger is mangled! How he even shoots in the high 40s is ridiculous. I hope he takes the summer off to heal up but with the basketball championships and a possible long drive to the finals it might not happen...

Stay_Swim
04-15-2010, 10:54 AM
Peak/ Thread.

MagicDojo
04-15-2010, 11:12 AM
I Would say he is still at his peak, he might not be quite as athletic but everything else is better than in the past. This year was just a bad year of injuries, that finger is mangled! How he even shoots in the high 40s is ridiculous. I hope he takes the summer off to heal up but with the basketball championships and a possible long drive to the finals it might not happen...

The Lakers and Kobe are Limping into the playoffs, he should take the summer off but hes far from washed up.

Avenged
04-15-2010, 11:23 AM
Hey guys Boozer is Injured, I guess he's aging, hey Roy is injured I guess he's body is just too old. retards

Pretty much just kicking a man when he's down.

But like someone else mentioned, he isn't going to get better from here on out so he's going to have to be declining, but he isn't at this point, not yet. I'd like to see anybody pretty much play a full NBA season with an injured hand, it's not an easy thing to do.

Avenged
04-15-2010, 11:25 AM
Actually its not an excuse its a fact that if your not a 100% your play is gonna suffer most of these guys arguing otherwise have either 1.) NEVER played the game and are just basketball nerds(which seems likely from reading alot of these peoples posts) or 2.) Just ignore the fact that injuries(no matter what your age) occure and affect your play.


And for people saying "well injuries are happening because he's getting old" all I gotta tell you guys is quit being an IDIOT! Its his hand that is injured(once again this proves that these guys probably have never played the game of basketball) and hand injuries happen when you drive and when people poke at the ball and slap your hands it may look like they dont hurt but jamming your thumb or dislocating your fingers can happen especially when you play as many games as Kobe has in this case he has broken fingers which is worse than just jamming your thumb etc... anyone who has played basketball would know this and wouldn't have to be told this.

Type of injuries that show signs of a player on the decline and his body wearing out would when players sit out with back injuries or knee injuries(take for example Shaq, Dikembe, T-Mac or Alonzo Mouring) that show your legs cant take it no more and obviously will show your not the same player you use to be his hand will heal its not like he carries weight on his hands he dribbles a ball and shoots with it so obviously its gonna affect him once it heals it'll be fine.


I really cant believe many believe he is wearing down because he has a HAND InJURY! Com'on people if you've played basketball you should know hand injuries happen they heal and YES THEY AFFECT YOUR PLAY stop being dumb......Sometimes I cant believe some of the things people say on here just to try and sound smart and make themselves sound right if you've played you should know.

I feel you man. It's not an excuse at all. But apparently if a player is injured, he's on the decline.. at least if your name is Kobe.

Hawkeye15
04-15-2010, 11:34 AM
easy way to understand. Players don't suddenly get better after 1100 games. They get worse. Period. Kobe is highly skilled, it won't be a sharp decline. But his best days are behind him most likely

nycericanguy
04-15-2010, 12:46 PM
He has just passed him prime and he hit he's peak already. He's still a great player but lets face it he's not going to get any better, he has already peaked. IMO he will continue to decline next year but he should still be a top 5 player for a couple of more years.

lakerssssssss
04-15-2010, 01:38 PM
Kobe is injured this year which is why he is playing bad. At the beginning of the year, Kobe was playing amazing, but his injuries finally caught up with him at the end of the year.

I could only judge if Kobe is on the decline when he is fully healthy.