PDA

View Full Version : Jamal Crawford's Label Removed?



Kakaroach
04-12-2010, 07:17 PM
For the longest time in the NBA, Jamal Crawford personified the loser. He was traded around from team to team and had the worst winning percentage of all current active NBA players at the beginning of the season at .337. The guy also had never made the playoffs or been on a winning team.

So is it safe to say with his first playoff season and the 6th Man of the Year award all but locked up, that Jamal Crawford is not the big loser that everyone always thought he was? Or does he still have to continue to prove himself?

ChiSox219
04-12-2010, 07:30 PM
Crawford is not the 6th man of the year. The Hawks have four more wins this year (could be six) but how much of that can be attributed to the dramatic improvements we saw from Horford and Josh Smith?

Crawford is a nice player to have off the bench and he's made some huge shots but a team won't win with him as their first or second option.

thescore53
04-12-2010, 07:30 PM
hes contributing on a winning team so i say hes prove himself and he'll prove himself more in the postseason

Raidaz4Life
04-12-2010, 07:32 PM
Crawford is a beast and easily the 6th man of the year

ryder78c
04-12-2010, 07:36 PM
you cant put a winning percentage on a player its a team sport...... Jamal Crawford has been on the worst teams since he got drafted Chicago when they were rebuilding right after the dynasty left the knicks the last few years golden state last year...you cant justify a players career when he's been on crap team's the whole time if he was lets say on some good teams since he was drafted different story but he's been a starter and a 6th man or on the bench and still puts up nice numbers IDK where you got loser from he's always been a very good player just because his crap teams lost dont make him a loser he was one of 2 players on the team that could play and 1 or 2 players dont make a team

smith&wesson
04-12-2010, 07:38 PM
ummm crawford not a loser. you try playing for the knick with the likes of washed up marbury, washed up francis, eddy curry, i mean that team really sucked the bag...

how is it his fault for being on a team that had isiah thomas as a gm ? paaalease man tim duncan would have been a loser on that team.

clutchski
04-12-2010, 07:48 PM
I always considered him the best of the losers though..by a long shot.

Tony_Starks
04-12-2010, 08:04 PM
I've never considered him a loser, Crawford's got game. As the others have stated he's just been on garbage teams. Even still he's always did the same thing he's doing now, give him the ball and he can get you buckets. It just so happens he's in a perfect situation now with a team that needed firepower off the bench.

SirCalvin81
04-12-2010, 08:09 PM
crawford is a baller no question about it

jackdawson
04-12-2010, 08:21 PM
He is clutch, no question about it.

Silent
04-12-2010, 08:58 PM
Whos gonna beat Crawford?

td0tsfinest
04-12-2010, 09:07 PM
He's also broke the record for most 4 point plays in a season, right? This is the best season, he's ever had.

Raps18-19 Champ
04-12-2010, 09:09 PM
I wanted him on the Raptors.

I remember there was a rumour that he could have been traded here. Not to sure on that though. Or I might be thinking of Harrington.

sargon21
04-12-2010, 09:15 PM
ok please, with all the ppl saying they never called him a loser, the guy just didnt play winning basketball, just looking to score and now he's got a fit on the right team so i'm happy for him

Big Quett
04-12-2010, 09:20 PM
Crawford is not the 6th man of the year. The Hawks have four more wins this year (could be six) but how much of that can be attributed to the dramatic improvements we saw from Horford and Josh Smith?

Crawford is a nice player to have off the bench and he's made some huge shots but a team won't win with him as their first or second option.

Then who is?

ryder78c
04-12-2010, 09:32 PM
ok please, with all the ppl saying they never called him a loser, the guy just didnt play winning basketball,

You cant play winning basketball if your teams always losing....he was on a crappy bulls team a crappy knicks team a crappy warriors team tell me which one of any of those teams would even make it to the playoffs...oh yeah none there all first round knock outs if they do

Mrphilly
04-12-2010, 09:46 PM
Crawford is not a loser. His game has not changed, but his envirorment did. Players get these unfair labels as if this is an individual sport. Kobe , Jordan, Bird ETC... has never won a championship alone, Just like Crawford never Lost all those games alone.

jackdawson
04-12-2010, 09:47 PM
He's also broke the record for most 4 point plays in a season, right? This is the best season, he's ever had.

I think he now holds the all time 4 point record. (Not sure tho).

Bulls_fan90
04-12-2010, 09:56 PM
Crawford is not the 6th man of the year. The Hawks have four more wins this year (could be six) but how much of that can be attributed to the dramatic improvements we saw from Horford and Josh Smith?

Crawford is a nice player to have off the bench and he's made some huge shots but a team won't win with him as their first or second option.

Yes he is. And he'll win pretty easily. He's had a great year. Who do you think is the 6th man?

*Superman*
04-12-2010, 09:59 PM
6th Man no question.

And yes the label is gone....for now.

Mrphilly
04-12-2010, 10:02 PM
Perfect example of an unfair label...Tracey Mcgrady and Grant hill, neither of them has been out of the first round but one is labeled a loser and the other is not.

Chronz
04-13-2010, 04:55 AM
Yet another example why labels are useless, just people trying to blame 1 player for the entire fortunes of his team.

ChiSox219
04-13-2010, 05:07 AM
Then who is?


Yes he is. And he'll win pretty easily. He's had a great year. Who do you think is the 6th man?

Anderson Varejao

$ NyC $
04-13-2010, 07:24 AM
I think he now holds the all time 4 point record. (Not sure tho).

Yes, he does. He's now the King of the 4 pt play.

I think that he's removed that label and it wasn't his fault he had it in the first place. Jamal Crawford is like a Ben Gordon. He hasn't been used the right way (first option isn't his thing) hence setting him up for failure. When he went to a team where he could do his thing without being the 1st option he showed what he could do and that he fits the role perfectly.

reffahead
04-13-2010, 07:43 AM
That dude said Varajeo, wow.

Crawford was forced into a top 5 sg role early in his career and he wasn't that good. He's perfect off the bench albeit extremely expensive but the Hawks gave up contracts that could be a sticking point for a new CBA in itself to acquire him.

10 million a year for a 6th man is ridiculous, but conquers 10 million for useless players like Speedy and Shelden Williams.

Mr.ATLHawks
04-13-2010, 07:52 AM
Crawford is not the 6th man of the year. The Hawks have four more wins this year (could be six) but how much of that can be attributed to the dramatic improvements we saw from Horford and Josh Smith?

Crawford is a nice player to have off the bench and he's made some huge shots but a team won't win with him as their first or second option.

If Crawford isnt the 6th Man of the Year who is? Crawford has made Joe "I Just Play Basketball for the Money" Johnson expendable....Big signing, big time player. Very clutch at the end of the game, this year at least. He's taken the pressure of Horford and J Smith and given ATL a more then valid 2nd option...I cant think of any other 6th Man that deserve it more..

Mr.ATLHawks
04-13-2010, 07:56 AM
Anderson Varejao

LMAOOOO *** outta here.....I thought it was going to be an intelligent answer like Ginobli or somebody.....Varajeo wont see the court in the playoffs...Shaq, Big Z, Jamison, Hickson...somethings gotta give

-Kobe24-TJ19-
04-13-2010, 08:12 AM
He's also broke the record for most 4 point plays in a season, right? This is the best season, he's ever had.

and All-Time also

petski
04-13-2010, 08:29 AM
For the longest time in the NBA, Jamal Crawford personified the loser. He was traded around from team to team and had the worst winning percentage of all current active NBA players at the beginning of the season at .337. The guy also had never made the playoffs or been on a winning team.

So is it safe to say with his first playoff season and the 6th Man of the Year award all but locked up, that Jamal Crawford is not the big loser that everyone always thought he was? Or does he still have to continue to prove himself?

Right, He had that record in a team game. The teams where losers, not him D bag. He was never a loser, just on a team of losers. He was the only bright spot on the Bulls, Knicks, and GS when he played for them. U are an idiot.

DieHardColtsfan
04-13-2010, 08:29 AM
Prob my fav Knick.

29$JerZ
04-13-2010, 08:36 AM
Glad Jamal finally gets a chance at a playoff spot, as is Nate even if its for the devils (Celtics)

I believe that would make David Lee now the longest NBa service without a playoff appearance, could be wrong.

69centers
04-13-2010, 09:10 AM
Crawford is not a lock for 6th man. Many more candidates:

Kevin Love (my pick), Odom, Ginobli, Terry, Landry.

MacFitz92
04-13-2010, 09:20 AM
Whos gonna beat Crawford?

Terry :D

ballpd05
04-13-2010, 11:03 AM
Crawford got game, but back in the day I thought (wasn't on tv too much so i assume) he was more selfish and just wanted to score. He came to atl with a winning mindset has accepted his role and i think atl is more dangerous with him than josh childress off the bench.

the_antz_nest
04-13-2010, 01:13 PM
Crawford is not a loser. His game has not changed, but his envirorment did. Players get these unfair labels as if this is an individual sport. Kobe , Jordan, Bird ETC... has never won a championship alone, Just like Crawford never Lost all those games alone.

exactly. in personal opinon i never thought he was a loser. ive always thought he was a player that crappy rebuilding teams would like on their squad. Unfortunatly for him he isnt really a solid all star therefore those crappy teams can afford to trade him away or let him go in search of somthing better. but any team is happy to take a player of his calibre on board to improve. hence so many (crappy) teams & less individual credit.

Sadds The Gr8
04-13-2010, 01:22 PM
Anderson Varejao

:laugh2:

too bad Varejao won't win, so you can believe that all you want. Crawford is gonna win it, and win it pretty easily.

Sadds The Gr8
04-13-2010, 01:24 PM
Crawford is not a lock for 6th man. Many more candidates:

Kevin Love (my pick), Odom, Ginobli, Terry, Landry.

Love missed wayyyy too many games

Ginobili struggled alot coming off the bench. His heavy impact in games have come when he's started this year.

Terry is a candidate, but Crawford's #s are better.

^^^Same with Odom

Landry has been a started ever since the trade deadline, so I don't think he qualifies anymore....

ChiSox219
04-13-2010, 01:43 PM
:laugh2:

too bad Varejao won't win, so you can believe that all you want. Crawford is gonna win it, and win it pretty easily.

Crawford probably will win, there are a lot of voters out there who don't know the league and will simply look at Crawford's scoring numbers and decide he's the sixth man.

After Varejao, I'm taking Lamar Odom, Kyle Lowry, Chris Anderson

Then we can talk about Jamal Crawford

As usual, PSDers just completely ignore defense.

Draco
04-13-2010, 01:59 PM
For the longest time in the NBA, Jamal Crawford personified the loser. He was traded around from team to team and had the worst winning percentage of all current active NBA players at the beginning of the season at .337. The guy also had never made the playoffs or been on a winning team.

So is it safe to say with his first playoff season and the 6th Man of the Year award all but locked up, that Jamal Crawford is not the big loser that everyone always thought he was? Or does he still have to continue to prove himself?

When he was with the Bulls he didn't want to come off the bench and was generally uncoachable. But then again.. sometimes you can't judge a player until they've had 11 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=npqzBtJ2Gco) or 12 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cVJbX2sb2WY&feature=related) seasons under their belt.

Sadds The Gr8
04-13-2010, 02:05 PM
Crawford probably will win, there are a lot of voters out there who don't know the league and will simply look at Crawford's scoring numbers and decide he's the sixth man.

After Varejao, I'm taking Lamar Odom, Kyle Lowry, Chris Anderson

Then we can talk about Jamal Crawford

As usual, PSDers just completely ignore defense.

well I don't make the rules....fact is that offense wins you more awards.

Sadds The Gr8
04-13-2010, 02:06 PM
When he was with the Bulls he didn't want to come off the bench and was generally uncoachable. But then again.. sometimes you can't judge a player until they've had 11 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=npqzBtJ2Gco) or 12 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cVJbX2sb2WY&feature=related) seasons under their belt.

with all that losing he's gone through the last several years, he would've probably takin any role the Hawks gave him.

ChiSox219
04-13-2010, 02:08 PM
well I don't make the rules....fact is that offense wins you more awards.

I agree and that's why I said Crawford will probably win the award but that doesn't make him the best 6th man from the 2009-10 season.

On the same point, at least we're seeing a couple of media members picking Varejao as 6th man, see the thread about the SI writer's picks.

Sadds The Gr8
04-13-2010, 02:13 PM
I agree and that's why I said Crawford will probably win the award but that doesn't make him the best 6th man from the 2009-10 season.

On the same point, at least we're seeing a couple of media members picking Varejao as 6th man, see the thread about the SI writer's picks.

IMO Jamal is the best 6th this year, but I think that Varejao is just as important to the Cavs as Jamal is to the Hawks...maybe even more.

I saw that thread and Varejao maayyybbee deserves some 6th votes, not too much though. But the fact that that guy had Varejao 2nd for DPoY over Crash, Artest and even Lebron is pretty ridiculous...

uws
04-13-2010, 02:19 PM
he is easily going to win 6th man. I feel like the kid has just had really bad luck and I'm glad he is finally getting some credit for what he does, and is being given a shot to do something late in the season

wish he was still a knick (for a lot less $$$)

Mr.ATLHawks
04-14-2010, 07:26 AM
Crawford probably will win, there are a lot of voters out there who don't know the league and will simply look at Crawford's scoring numbers and decide he's the sixth man.

After Varejao, I'm taking Lamar Odom, Kyle Lowry, Chris Anderson

Then we can talk about Jamal Crawford

As usual, PSDers just completely ignore defense.


I guess you just have a natural hate for Jamal Crawford, 18 PPG, 45% FG%, 38% 3 PT, 3 Assists, 2.5 Boards. Kevin Love, granted the man can rebound, but how are you the 6th man on an absolutely horrible team? Kyle Lowry??? Are you effin serious...9.2 PPG 39% FG shooting, 27% 3pt, 3 rebounds, 4 assists, and 1.7 TO..how the **** does that qualify him for anything?
Birdman 6 Pts, 6 Boards, 2 Blocks a game...a little better but nowhere near Award status..

Odom is about the best candidate you have here to give Craawford a challenge but he has started 37 games this year so he might not even qualify...

$KnicksAndKobe$
04-14-2010, 09:38 AM
I guess you just have a natural hate for Jamal Crawford, 18 PPG, 45% FG%, 38% 3 PT, 3 Assists, 2.5 Boards. Kevin Love, granted the man can rebound, but how are you the 6th man on an absolutely horrible team? Kyle Lowry??? Are you effin serious...9.2 PPG 39% FG shooting, 27% 3pt, 3 rebounds, 4 assists, and 1.7 TO..how the **** does that qualify him for anything?
Birdman 6 Pts, 6 Boards, 2 Blocks a game...a little better but nowhere near Award status..

Odom is about the best candidate you have here to give Craawford a challenge but he has started 37 games this year so he might not even qualify...

:clap:

Chronz
04-14-2010, 11:27 AM
I guess you just have a natural hate for Jamal Crawford, 18 PPG, 45% FG%, 38% 3 PT, 3 Assists, 2.5 Boards. Kevin Love, granted the man can rebound, but how are you the 6th man on an absolutely horrible team? Kyle Lowry??? Are you effin serious...9.2 PPG 39% FG shooting, 27% 3pt, 3 rebounds, 4 assists, and 1.7 TO..how the **** does that qualify him for anything?
Birdman 6 Pts, 6 Boards, 2 Blocks a game...a little better but nowhere near Award status..

Odom is about the best candidate you have here to give Craawford a challenge but he has started 37 games this year so he might not even qualify...
My guess is hes taking into account both sides of the court and per possession metrics, while your only posting OUTDATED #'s from each player.

ballpd05
04-14-2010, 11:32 AM
I agree that Crawford should win it if JET doesn't win it. Birdman's contribution goes far beyond those numbers.

Mr.ATLHawks
04-14-2010, 04:40 PM
My guess is hes taking into account both sides of the court and per possession metrics, while your only posting OUTDATED #'s from each player.

Outdated? I got those right off nba.com thru 81 games, but that is besides the point who goes to the 6th Man for defense? Think of the previous "6th Man" award winners...Ben Gordon, Cliff Robinson, Detlef Schrempf, Barbosa, Mike Miller, name the last 6th Man to win the award for defense? Kevin Mchale is about the only winner who was solid on both sides of the court and he is a HOFer.

Im not saying Birdman doesnt impact his team "defensively" or that his is not a key contributor for that team, BUT if Birdman got hurt would Denver struggle that much if Kenyon Martin was healthy? JR Smith got more accolade at the 6th Man b/c he can score in bunches.

If Jamal Crawford got hurt sure the Hawks would go back to watching Joe Johnson dribbling the ball for 18 seconds of the shot clock. The Cliche off the 6th Man is instant offense...not defense, they have a DPOY award I believe...Ginobli, Terry, Gordon, etc, etc...all known for one thing INSTANT OFFENSE. I welcome any valid points but to throw Kyle Lowry out there as a better candidate then Jamal Crawford is just simply asinine. Kevin Love plays for a horrible team but is a decent arguement he rebounds and scores, Odom would also be a good choice but he has started 37 games. I watch EVERY HAwks game so I knwo the contributions Craw has made, clutch shooting at the end of games, and consistant offense...Frankly who looks for a 6th man who is defensively sound? Even Popvich knows you need a 6th Man that can score not shut down the other teams bench... If Kyle Lowry is the best person off your bench you need to re-address your offseason moves..

Chronz
04-14-2010, 05:27 PM
Outdated? I got those right off nba.com thru 81 games,
If your getting your stats from NBA.com then your horribly outdated.


but that is besides the point who goes to the 6th Man for defense? Think of the previous "6th Man" award winners...Ben Gordon, Cliff Robinson, Detlef Schrempf, Barbosa, Mike Miller, name the last 6th Man to win the award for defense? Kevin Mchale is about the only winner who was solid on both sides of the court and he is a HOFer.
We understand that, we arent disputing the fact that he will win it. Thats not the point being made here and its not what I was defending about his selections.


I welcome any valid points but to throw Kyle Lowry out there as a better candidate then Jamal Crawford is just simply asinine. Kevin Love plays for a horrible team but is a decent arguement he rebounds and scores, Odom would also be a good choice but he has started 37 games. I watch EVERY HAwks game so I knwo the contributions Craw has made, clutch shooting at the end of games, and consistant offense...Frankly who looks for a 6th man who is defensively sound? Even Popvich knows you need a 6th Man that can score not shut down the other teams bench... If Kyle Lowry is the best person off your bench you need to re-address your offseason moves..
Why does the team need to be good to be a great 6thman? Isnt it just the best player off the bench? Love fits that description better than anyone. I dont know about ALL the selections but your attempt to refute them were outdated.

ChiSox219
04-14-2010, 06:38 PM
but that is besides the point who goes to the 6th Man for defense?

I do.



Im not saying Birdman doesnt impact his team "defensively" or that his is not a key contributor for that team, BUT if Birdman got hurt would Denver struggle that much if Kenyon Martin was healthy? JR Smith got more accolade at the 6th Man b/c he can score in bunches.

JR Smith can score in bunches but he can also take a dozen bad shots in a single half. Check out this five game stretch he had earlier this year:

@Mem: 2-12 (.167), 7 points, 3 turnovers
ATL: 15-25 (.600), 41 points, 0 turnovers
@POR: 9-23 (.391), 20 points, 1 turnover
Dal: 3-12 (.250), 11 points, 3 turnovers
@Sac: 1-9 (.111), 4 points, 4 turnovers

JR's had 10 games where he's shot over 60% (on no less than 8 attempts) but he's had 14 games shooting below 30%.

He's inconsistent and fans remember the great performances a lot more than the poor performances. Crawford is a more consistent scorer and has a better shot selection but at least JR plays decent defense.


The Cliche off the 6th Man is instant offense...not defense, they have a DPOY award I believe...Ginobli, Terry, Gordon, etc, etc...all known for one thing INSTANT OFFENSE.

It is a cliche, the NBA defines the award as the "best player in a reserve role" so that means best player, not best scorer or best instant offense.



I welcome any valid points but to throw Kyle Lowry out there as a better candidate then Jamal Crawford is just simply asinine.

You have to watch Lowry to appreciate his game.



Kevin Love plays for a horrible team but is a decent arguement he rebounds and scores, Odom would also be a good choice but he has started 37 games.

I haven't said anything about Kevin Love.

As for Lamar Odom, sure he's started a ton of games, but isn't that what a 6th man does, step up and play when starters go down with injury? I'm not going to hold that against him.



I watch EVERY HAwks game so I knwo the contributions Craw has made, clutch shooting at the end of games, and consistant offense...Frankly who looks for a 6th man who is defensively sound? Even Popvich knows you need a 6th Man that can score not shut down the other teams bench... If Kyle Lowry is the best person off your bench you need to re-address your offseason moves..

Well, there's a chance Lowry will be starting next year so you won't have to worry about him.



It's not that I hate Crawford or think he's bad, there are just better candidates. JC has been a great addition for the Hawks and he's hit some big shots but there's more to the game than just scoring points.

masalex1205
04-14-2010, 06:58 PM
Crawford is not the 6th man of the year. The Hawks have four more wins this year (could be six) but how much of that can be attributed to the dramatic improvements we saw from Horford and Josh Smith?

Crawford is a nice player to have off the bench and he's made some huge shots but a team won't win with him as their first or second option.


one of the wackest posts I've seen in awhile

Mr.ATLHawks
04-15-2010, 07:23 AM
I am done trying to prove my point. Like I said Odom, Terry, and Love are legit contenders. As far as Kyle Lowry is concerned my friend you can have him. He put up numbers similiar to Chris Duhon and he probably might not even be in the league next year. I wont say the guy doesnt have potential b/c I loved him at Villanova but I just dont see what you are seeing. Who is Lowry going to start over next year? Kevin Martin, Ariza, or Aaron Brooks? I dont see him pushing any of those 3 out the starting role.

Chronz, The record should matter, it does for MVP, they never give the award to a non-playoff teams best player. You're right the award should go to the guy that impacts the game the most in a reserve role, but if the team isnt winning then how much of an impact is he really making?

alchemist0123
04-15-2010, 07:41 AM
you cant put a winning percentage on a player its a team sport...... Jamal Crawford has been on the worst teams since he got drafted Chicago when they were rebuilding right after the dynasty left the knicks the last few years golden state last year...you cant justify a players career when he's been on crap team's the whole time if he was lets say on some good teams since he was drafted different story but he's been a starter and a 6th man or on the bench and still puts up nice numbers IDK where you got loser from he's always been a very good player just because his crap teams lost dont make him a loser he was one of 2 players on the team that could play and 1 or 2 players dont make a team

enuff said

$KnicksAndKobe$
04-15-2010, 10:20 AM
I am done trying to prove my point. Like I said Odom, Terry, and Love are legit contenders. As far as Kyle Lowry is concerned my friend you can have him. He put up numbers similiar to Chris Duhon and he probably might not even be in the league next year. I wont say the guy doesnt have potential b/c I loved him at Villanova but I just dont see what you are seeing. Who is Lowry going to start over next year? Kevin Martin, Ariza, or Aaron Brooks? I dont see him pushing any of those 3 out the starting role.

Chronz, The record should matter, it does for MVP, they never give the award to a non-playoff teams best player. You're right the award should go to the guy that impacts the game the most in a reserve role, but if the team isnt winning then how much of an impact is he really making?

:clap: x2


Jamal>Lowry

Better stats, better record, better player!