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View Full Version : Van Gundy says MVP award is always a done deal



JordansBulls
04-12-2010, 12:16 PM
Link (http://www.orlandosentinel.com/sports/orlando-magic/os-magic-cavaliers-news-0412-20100411,0,3285808.story)



"You know how the vote's going to go. LeBron (James) will win the MVP every year until he retires," Van Gundy said.

Van Gundy was likely playing to the Cleveland media. But there's part of him that feels that the MVP decided by the media will be James' award to lose for a long time.

"LeBron has to go into the year and basically lose the MVP. You guys have decided he's the MVP," Van Gundy said.


Van Gundy says that fans and media "view players primarily as scorers and view most everything else as secondary," meaning they overlook Van Gundy's guy, Dwight Howard, the favorite to repeat as defensive player of the year.

"[Defense] doesn't translate into MVP voting. People look at it as it's not as important I don't understand that."

Van Gundy said that Howard would have to score more to be a serious candidate, but "we're a team that, offensively, is not going to help him win an MVP award. We're pretty balanced."

Sadds The Gr8
04-12-2010, 12:27 PM
I agree...

But offense is like sex....it sells.

BOSTON617
04-12-2010, 12:35 PM
who cares ???????? dwight shouldnt be mvp anyway lol thats like giving ben wallace mvp

iggypop123
04-12-2010, 12:37 PM
only way he doestn get mvp is if they bored of him but the media loves him, they worship the ground he walks on. remember nash and nowitzki have more mvp's than kobe and shaq. its possible people could start ignorign lebron and giving it somebody else.

bbblack40
04-12-2010, 12:38 PM
What van gundy said is true, the writers we have lebron front runner 4 mvp every year, Dhoward makes more of an impact on the game than anybody, it jus doesnt show up in the boxscore. Never in NBA history has a player lead the league in blocks,rebs, and fg % tha guy is a beast but the media likes the flashy sexy pic of offensive skill and the best story vs dominace i mean think it about these are the same writers that have shaq with one mvp and nash has two i mean nash is great but there's no way shaq shouldnt have atleast 3 or 4 mvps, pat ewing, alonzo, 0mvps writers dont vote 4 big men 4 mvps IMO

Raph12
04-12-2010, 12:45 PM
It's true, Orlando has too much offensive talent around Dwight, if he takes 20 shots per game, it wouldn't be helping the team, it would be taking away from other guys who could help you down the stretch of a close game by knocking down big shots.

Lebron will win MVP every season as long as his team finishes in the Top 3 spots in the league, because statistically, no one will top 30-7-9... The NBA no longer rewards a player for anchoring the league's best defense (while still anchoring the offense), to one of the best records in the league. To think Bill Russell won 5 MVP awards avging 18ppg or less while shooting in the low 40s, just because of his defense, where are those days now.

ballpd05
04-12-2010, 12:45 PM
who cares ???????? dwight shouldnt be mvp anyway lol thats like giving ben wallace mvp

He's a tad bit more of a load offensively than Ben was/is. But I agree. They have enough weapons that in the sense of VALUE he is not as valuable as lebron.

He anchors the defense, but the offense can put up 100 regardless of if Dwight has big numbers or not. He is still not that guy who when you need a basket you go to.

But Lebron is the best defender (even is the most feared fast break stopper ever) and the main (maybe only) play maker on the Cavs.

But I agree with Van Gundy. Even if there is a year where two or three other people may be having similar or slightly better years as him I think he will still beat them out... Ala Kobe a few years ago, beating out CP3 who was responsible for almost 50% of the teams points (assisted on or scored) on the second best team in the west.

Hawkize31
04-12-2010, 12:49 PM
Jealous much, SVG? Lebron deserves it, you know he deserves it and will win it, so stop whining.

JNA17
04-12-2010, 12:49 PM
pretty much. It just shows how sad the fans and media are in sports.

yup
04-12-2010, 12:49 PM
i have a HUGE problem with how the league selects their MVP's...it's most VALUABLE player as in most valuable to their team. i believe that the mvp hands down should be kevin durant's. i mean the guy went from lottery pick to locking the 7th seed (minimum) up in the western conference which is INFAMOUS for being the most competitive. even last year i still don't think lebron should've won it, it was d-wade's to lose. lebron plays on a much better team then d-wade did last year and durant does this year. it get's very redundant seeing lebron get player of the month (every month) and MVP (most likely every season from now until he retires)

montazingmvp
04-12-2010, 12:50 PM
who cares ???????? dwight shouldnt be mvp anyway lol thats like giving ben wallace mvp

absolute nonsense...

dwight is the best player in the league one one side of the floor...and a top 10 player on the other side of the floor.

he should be in mvp considerations without a doubt...

Though James deserves it this year...

JNA17
04-12-2010, 12:50 PM
Jealous much, SVG? Lebron deserves it, you know he deserves it and will win it, so stop whining.

example #766,431.

montazingmvp
04-12-2010, 12:52 PM
What van gundy said is true, the writers we have lebron front runner 4 mvp every year, Dhoward makes more of an impact on the game than anybody, it jus doesnt show up in the boxscore. Never in NBA history has a player lead the league in blocks,rebs, and fg % tha guy is a beast but the media likes the flashy sexy pic of offensive skill and the best story vs dominace i mean think it about these are the same writers that have shaq with one mvp and nash has two i mean nash is great but there's no way shaq shouldnt have atleast 3 or 4 mvps, pat ewing, alonzo, 0mvps writers dont vote 4 big men 4 mvps IMO

ewing and alonzo were never the best players in the league...and they played at the same time as Jordan, Barkley and hakeem...whom are all better than them.

but shaq definitely deserved more...and nash 1 less imo...

AIMelo=KillaDUO
04-12-2010, 12:55 PM
I think leBron means more to tha Cavs then Dwight does to tha Magic

clehmun
04-12-2010, 12:55 PM
MVP = best offensive player on a top 5 team
DPOY = best defensive player on a top 5 team

they should just change the name. IMO the DPOY award is just as significant as MVP.

Hawkeye15
04-12-2010, 01:00 PM
God forbid the guy who should wins it wins it. LeBron deserved it last season, and he deserves it this season. Is it a travesty that Shaq didn't win around 4 in a row? Yep. Should Nash have ever won one? Nope. But that is life. At least they are getting it right temporarily

TheKing23
04-12-2010, 01:01 PM
pretty much. It just shows how sad the fans and media are in sports.

Yeah, it's so sad that the media chooses the best player in the league who is having one of the best individual seasons in recent memory and is leading his team to the best record in the league as the MVP.

What is the world coming to... :rolleyes:

JNA17
04-12-2010, 01:04 PM
Yeah, it's so sad that the media chooses the best player in the league who is having one of the best individual seasons in recent memory and is leading his team to the best record in the league as the MVP.

What is the world coming to... :rolleyes:

example #766,432

Sadds The Gr8
04-12-2010, 01:05 PM
absolute nonsense...

dwight is the best player in the league one one side of the floor...and a top 10 player on the other side of the floor.

he should be in mvp considerations without a doubt...

Though James deserves it this year...

ok that's a stretch.

Lebron, Melo, Kobe, Durant, Paul, D-Will, Wade, Dirk, Bosh, Brandon Roy, Joe Johnson, Pau...

those guys are all above Dwight offensively and I know I'm missing some. He is the best defensive player though.

NY Till I Die
04-12-2010, 01:06 PM
After the Donahue thing the league is suspect. Especially when a ref like Dick Bevatta says the they put him to ref certain games to guarantee the outcome is favorable to what the league wants.

Especially when Chris Paul, Charles Barkley & Scottie Pippen all missed out on MVP trophies they deserved.

Ansy
04-12-2010, 01:07 PM
Yeah, a guy who is having arguably the best season any player has had in the post -Jordan era is going to win the award because nobody respects defense.

C'mon Jeff, pick your battles

CowboysKB24
04-12-2010, 01:13 PM
MVP goes to the best player on the best team, give or take. Nash won it when his team was second or third in the league. There are some exceptions, but 90% of the time it is the best player in the best team. Sometimes a player's stats outweighs a few more losses than another team.


What is LBJ? The best player on the best team.

td0tsfinest
04-12-2010, 01:18 PM
There was no doubt coming into the season that the MVP was Lebron James trophy to lose. and he hasn't disappointed. We have seen stellar performances from Dwight and KD but the Cavs are just too good when Lebron is on the court.

It'll be the same next year as well. It's his to lose.

MaHaRaJaH
04-12-2010, 01:23 PM
Jealous much, SVG? Lebron deserves it, you know he deserves it and will win it, so stop whining.
Ofcourse LBJ does, but it's not fair for Dwight howard who doesn't put up the same offensive numbers but still should be considered a candidate for the impact he has on the team.

tredigs
04-12-2010, 01:38 PM
ok that's a stretch.

Lebron, Melo, Kobe, Durant, Paul, D-Will, Wade, Dirk, Bosh, Brandon Roy, Joe Johnson, Pau...

those guys are all above Dwight offensively and I know I'm missing some. He is the best defensive player though.

... Gasol, Danny Granger, David Lee, Carlos Boozer, Tim Duncan, Manu Ginobili, Amare Stoudemire, Zach Randolph, Monta Ellis, Paul Pierce, Steve Nash, Al Jefferson and Kevin Love. These are all better offensive players, though some can be argued if you went with a very raw definition of pts + FG%, being that Dwight's is so high from putbacks or dunks, but these are all better talents offensively. I left out a ton of others that could be argued as well, people like Rudy Gay, OJ Mayo, Stephen Jackson, Stephen Curry, Kevin Garnett, David West, Chauncey Billups, etc.

Stan Van Gundy is just promoting his boy, and has a lot of good reasons to do so. But if this was all of these players first year in the league and Lebron was doing what he is doing, then he would absolutely win the award and nobody would have a problem with it. The sentimental/team turnaround vote goes to Durant, the defensive die hards will go to D. Howard, and the confused will go to Kobe, but this is Lebron's award this year. For the record this guy has ONE MVP award, let's stop crying already.

montazingmvp
04-12-2010, 01:49 PM
ok that's a stretch.

Lebron, Melo, Kobe, Durant, Paul, D-Will, Wade, Dirk, Bosh, Brandon Roy, Joe Johnson, Pau...

those guys are all above Dwight offensively and I know I'm missing some. He is the best defensive player though.

the players you mention have more weapons offensively, but are not more effective offensively...

there's more to offense than scoring and passing...dwight is obviously a really good offensive rebounder...his team completely relies on him to do this...he is also great on the pick and roll. he's unstoppable when he gets good position down low.

and on top of that every player you mention has a lower ts% than dwight. he definitely needs to refine his game a bit...but he is one of the most efficient scorers in the league and he does it at a pretty high rate too.

there's no way in hell joe johnson is a better offensive player than dwight...i'll give you the other guys...top 10 might have been a bit of a stretch but he's close...

you'd be hard pressed to find 12 better offensive players...

off hand i'll give you kobe, lebron, melo, nash, kd, roy, cp3, deron, bosh, and dirk...not many more

montazingmvp
04-12-2010, 01:50 PM
After the Donahue thing the league is suspect. Especially when a ref like Dick Bevatta says the they put him to ref certain games to guarantee the outcome is favorable to what the league wants.

Especially when Chris Paul, Charles Barkley & Scottie Pippen all missed out on MVP trophies they deserved.

barkley won an mvp...and pippen, really?

montazingmvp
04-12-2010, 01:53 PM
... Gasol, Danny Granger, David Lee, Carlos Boozer, Tim Duncan, Manu Ginobili, Amare Stoudemire, Zach Randolph, Monta Ellis, Paul Pierce, Steve Nash, Al Jefferson and Kevin Love. These are all better offensive players, though some can be argued if you went with a very raw definition of pts + FG%, being that Dwight's is so high from putbacks or dunks, but these are all better talents offensively. I left out a ton of others that could be argued as well, people like Rudy Gay, OJ Mayo, Stephen Jackson, Stephen Curry, Kevin Garnett, David West, Chauncey Billups, etc.

Stan Van Gundy is just promoting his boy, and has a lot of good reasons to do so. But if this was all of these players first year in the league and Lebron was doing what he is doing, then he would absolutely win the award and nobody would have a problem with it. The sentimental/team turnaround vote goes to Durant, the defensive die hards will go to D. Howard, and the confused will go to Kobe, but this is Lebron's award this year. For the record this guy has ONE MVP award, let's stop crying already.

it depends what you're basing it upon...effectiveness or overall ability...

there are tons of guys who have more offensive ability in the league...but there are few players who are more effective in their role offensively

TheKing23
04-12-2010, 01:54 PM
example #766,432

Please explain why he shouldn't win it then?

JNA17
04-12-2010, 02:00 PM
Please explain why he shouldn't win it then?

funny, i don't recall saying anything about lebron not deserving it this year.

The only thing i meant in my post is that it's sad to see media and fans now a days only like players like lebron, wade, kobe, durant, etc. Based on how they do on offense and hype. When clearly the whole thing is bias and no one puts account into the other side of the arguement and treats it like it does nothing.

Da Knicks
04-12-2010, 02:13 PM
Maybe you need too play both sides of the ball? Lebron mvp worthy again sorry...

tredigs
04-12-2010, 02:17 PM
funny, i don't recall saying anything about lebron not deserving it this year.

The only thing i meant in my post is that it's sad to see media and fans now a days only like players like lebron, wade, kobe, durant, etc. Based on how they do on offense and hype. When clearly the whole thing is bias and no one puts account into the other side of the arguement and treats it like it does nothing.

Funny how every player you just listed does it on both ends of the floor. Maybe if you would have wrote Dirk Nowitzki, Nash, Melo, etc it would have made sense (notice that none of them are in MVP contention), but you're off base here.

sunnydayin'zona
04-12-2010, 02:23 PM
absolute nonsense...

dwight is the best player in the league one one side of the floor...and a top 10 player on the other side of the floor.

he should be in mvp considerations without a doubt...

Though James deserves it this year...

Lebron, Melo, Kobe, Durant, Nash, Amare, Monta, Stephcurry, Paul, D-Will, Wade, Dirk, Bosh, Brandon Roy, Joe Johnson, Pau

Raph12
04-12-2010, 02:24 PM
... Gasol, Danny Granger, David Lee, Carlos Boozer, Tim Duncan, Manu Ginobili, Amare Stoudemire, Zach Randolph, Monta Ellis, Paul Pierce, Steve Nash, Al Jefferson and Kevin Love. These are all better offensive players, though some can be argued if you went with a very raw definition of pts + FG%, being that Dwight's is so high from putbacks or dunks, but these are all better talents offensively. I left out a ton of others that could be argued as well, people like Rudy Gay, OJ Mayo, Stephen Jackson, Stephen Curry, Kevin Garnett, David West, Chauncey Billups, etc.

Stan Van Gundy is just promoting his boy, and has a lot of good reasons to do so. But if this was all of these players first year in the league and Lebron was doing what he is doing, then he would absolutely win the award and nobody would have a problem with it. The sentimental/team turnaround vote goes to Durant, the defensive die hards will go to D. Howard, and the confused will go to Kobe, but this is Lebron's award this year. For the record this guy has ONE MVP award, let's stop crying already.

Dwight scores the ball better than everyone on that list not named Duncan, Amare, Nash and Z-Bo. It doesn't matter how he scores the basketball, he gets more defensive attention than most of those guys anyways, he scores in iso sets and scores without the ball as well. He can put up 20+pts on 55+FG% on any given night and that's more than I can say for anyone on that list.

Skillwise, you could put those guys ahead of him offensively (which I'd still dispute with a couple of them), but Dwight's impact on that end is umpteen times higher than anyone on those lists not named Duncan, Amare and Nash.

ballpd05
04-12-2010, 02:24 PM
absolute nonsense...

dwight is the best player in the league one one side of the floor...and a top 10 player on the other side of the floor.

he should be in mvp considerations without a doubt...

Though James deserves it this year...

I'm sure we can name 10 players who are better offensively than Dwight.

FOBolous
04-12-2010, 02:31 PM
It's true, Orlando has too much offensive talent around Dwight, if he takes 20 shots per game, it wouldn't be helping the team, it would be taking away from other guys who could help you down the stretch of a close game by knocking down big shots.

wrong. if Dwight Howard is really the good offensive player you make him out to be...him taking 20 shots a game will be the best thing to happen to that team...him taking shot shots are a lot better than a 42% shooter like VC or a 43% scorer like Reshard Lewis taking those shots.

you know why centers are sooo coveted? because good centers are THE most effective offensive players in the league. good centers can score 20+ points while shooting over 50% as oppose to a good wing player who scores the same amount of pts while shooting at a far worse fg%. centers make the team that much better simply because of how effective they are. that's why all teams that have good centers who are good offensively run their offense through their center..they'll be stupid/******** not too. sooo if Dwight is as good as you say he is...why doesn't Orlando run their offense through him as oppose to VC who's 42% from the field or lewis who's shooting 43%? the answer is simple. because dwight howard is not good enough for them to run their offense through.

cause i know if Yao was 100% healthy and Houston has both VC and Lewis like Orlando does, Houston would still run their offense through Yao no matter what.

Chronz
04-12-2010, 02:39 PM
Dwight scores the ball better than everyone on that list not named Duncan, Amare, Nash and Z-Bo.

By what measure?

NY Till I Die
04-12-2010, 02:47 PM
barkley won an mvp...and pippen, really?

No they didnt. But they deserved it and the award was given to someone else who didnt have a better year.

Theres is too much extra criteria for who should win the award. Chris Paul almost took a team that no one even thought would make the playoffs to the top of the toughest conference in Basketball. Kobe mearly did what was expected which wa to win and he won the award.

JNA17
04-12-2010, 02:49 PM
Funny how every player you just listed does it on both ends of the floor. Maybe if you would have wrote Dirk Nowitzki, Nash, Melo, etc it would have made sense (notice that none of them are in MVP contention), but you're off base here.

It seems you clearly did not understand my post. I never said either that all the award is is for players with just offense and no defense.

But before i go on the funny part about the list of players you mentioned contains players that have won a combined total of 3 MVPs.

montazingmvp
04-12-2010, 02:51 PM
No they didnt. But they deserved it and the award was given to someone else who didnt have a better year.

Theres is too much extra criteria for who should win the award. Chris Paul almost took a team that no one even thought would make the playoffs to the top of the toughest conference in Basketball. Kobe mearly did what was expected which wa to win and he won the award.

barkley did in fact win an mvp...

and when did pippen ever deserve an mvp?

JNA17
04-12-2010, 02:59 PM
By what measure?

chronz im disappointed :(. Your a stat guy i thought you would be high on dwight :eyebrow:

ballpd05
04-12-2010, 03:00 PM
wrong. if Dwight Howard is really the good offensive player you make him out to be...him taking 20 shots a game will be the best thing to happen to that team...him taking shot shots are a lot better than a 42% shooter like VC or a 43% scorer like Reshard Lewis taking those shots.

you know why centers are sooo coveted? because good centers are THE most effective offensive players in the league. good centers can score 20+ points while shooting over 50% as oppose to a good wing player who scores the same amount of pts while shooting at a far worse fg%. centers make the team that much better simply because of how effective they are. that's why all teams that have good centers who are good offensively run their offense through their center..they'll be stupid/******** not too. sooo if Dwight is as good as you say he is...why doesn't Orlando run their offense through him as oppose to VC who's 42% from the field or lewis who's shooting 43%? the answer is simple. because dwight howard is not good enough for them to run their offense through.

cause i know if Yao was 100% healthy and Houston has both VC and Lewis like Orlando does, Houston would still run their offense through Yao no matter what.

True, Yao was the focal point when T-Mac came along, but Dwight flourishes in his role.

Thats why they ran the offense through Turkoglu (who was never ever been the playmaker on any NBA team he played for until then) and then they tried to upgrade to VC. Dwight still isn't to the point where he is able to be the focal point offensively. But his work without the ball in his hands is remarkable for getting his stats...

But thats why I think u can find 10 better offensive players.

Tony_Starks
04-12-2010, 03:16 PM
I don't think Stan is saying Lebron doesn't deserve but that the writers have their minds made up going into the season that he's already got it. I have to agree with him on that one. My pick would be Kevin Durant for the fact that he has taken a team that everyone picked to be one of the worst in the league to a 50 win season in the loaded West.

This is a prime example of why they need to take MVP voting away from the sports writers, its one of the biggest jokes in the NBA. Give the voting to the players. Who better to pick the MVP than the guys that are playing against them night in and night out?

ballpd05
04-12-2010, 03:19 PM
I don't think Stan is saying Lebron doesn't deserve but that the writers have their minds made up going into the season that he's already got it. I have to agree with him on that one. My pick would be Kevin Durant for the fact that he has taken a team that everyone picked to be one of the worst in the league to a 50 win season in the loaded West.

This is a prime example of why they need to take MVP voting away from the sports writers, its one of the biggest jokes in the NBA. Give the voting to the players. Who better to pick the MVP than the guys that are playing against them night in and night out?

Same reason. I just played in an amateur league where we let players pick the all star team and some people voted for themselves (and they looked like they never touched a ball before) or their teammates or refused to vote for guys who they didn't like. Same stuff would happen in the league.

Tony_Starks
04-12-2010, 03:41 PM
Same reason. I just played in an amateur league where we let players pick the all star team and some people voted for themselves (and they looked like they never touched a ball before) or their teammates or refused to vote for guys who they didn't like. Same stuff would happen in the league.



Well you would have to put some parameters in place like not being able to vote for teammates. Not voting for yourself is just a no brainer. I see what your saying there are still going to be some haters but I think the vast majority would recognize the real. The media is just so biased it takes away from the validity of the award.

Also Im not sure if you guys noticed but every year they wait until the 1st round is damn near over to finalize the award. Thats pretty bogus as well.

Raph12
04-12-2010, 04:10 PM
wrong. if Dwight Howard is really the good offensive player you make him out to be...him taking 20 shots a game will be the best thing to happen to that team...him taking shot shots are a lot better than a 42% shooter like VC or a 43% scorer like Reshard Lewis taking those shots.

you know why centers are sooo coveted? because good centers are THE most effective offensive players in the league. good centers can score 20+ points while shooting over 50% as oppose to a good wing player who scores the same amount of pts while shooting at a far worse fg%. centers make the team that much better simply because of how effective they are. that's why all teams that have good centers who are good offensively run their offense through their center..they'll be stupid/******** not too. sooo if Dwight is as good as you say he is...why doesn't Orlando run their offense through him as oppose to VC who's 42% from the field or lewis who's shooting 43%? the answer is simple. because dwight howard is not good enough for them to run their offense through.

cause i know if Yao was 100% healthy and Houston has both VC and Lewis like Orlando does, Houston would still run their offense through Yao no matter what.

Yeah Dwight could score 25ppg on 50-55+FG%, but it would still take away from his teammates. Look at the Cavs, they're so dependant on Lebron, they struggle to beat weak teams without him. By Dwight not taking 20+shots per game, the team can still win games without him having a great offensive night. Whereas, if Lebron has an off-night, it usually results in a loss.

The Magic have too much talent around Dwight, sort of like Yao last season, his touches saw a significant decrease, but the team fared better. When Orlando doesn't have guys like Carter, Shard and Nelson (who could all avg 20+ppg) or role players like Barnes, Pietrus, Redick, Anderson, Bass or J-Will (who could all avg 15+ppg), then maybe Dwight's numbers will see a significant increase. Stan has always wanted to play with a more well-balanced attack, but still wants to keep Howard as the focal point.

Chronz
04-12-2010, 04:14 PM
chronz im disappointed :(. Your a stat guy i thought you would be high on dwight :eyebrow:
What do you mean, did you read what he wrote?

Chronz
04-12-2010, 04:21 PM
Yeah Dwight could score 25ppg on 50-55+FG%, but it would still take away from his teammates. Look at the Cavs, they're so dependant on Lebron, they struggle to beat weak teams without him. By Dwight not taking 20+shots per game, the team can still win games without him having a great offensive night. Whereas, if Lebron has an off-night, it usually results in a loss.

The Magic have too much talent around Dwight, sort of like Yao last season, his touches saw a significant decrease, but the team fared better. When Orlando doesn't have guys like Carter, Shard and Nelson (who could all avg 20+ppg) or role players like Barnes, Pietrus, Redick, Anderson, Bass or J-Will (who could all avg 15+ppg), then maybe Dwight's numbers will see a significant increase. Stan has always wanted to play with a more well-balanced attack, but still wants to keep Howard as the focal point.
lol please, if Dwight could do that the team would be even better for it. The trick is, would the team be able to rely on him to consistently produce to that degree the way the Cavs can on Bron. If Dwight could dominate like that he would make the game so easy for his teammates. I dont care how much talent you have around Shaq hes still going to produce insane #'s.

RadiantShot
04-12-2010, 05:18 PM
If Dwight was averaging 24 PPG, I think he'd get the MVP over James. At least, that's how it SHOULD go.

Raph12
04-12-2010, 05:33 PM
lol please, if Dwight could do that the team would be even better for it. The trick is, would the team be able to rely on him to consistently produce to that degree the way the Cavs can on Bron. If Dwight could dominate like that he would make the game so easy for his teammates. I dont care how much talent you have around Shaq hes still going to produce insane #'s.

Shaq is the number one most dominant player of all time, can't no player stop a prime Shaq, don't compare Shaq to anyone. In his prime, Shaq would put up ridiculous numbers in any era, on anyone. If Bron scores less, distributes more, scoring the ball at about 4FG% higher, like Dwight has, his team would be even better for it.

Take Yao for example, he got less touches in the 2008-09 season, scored less than previous seasons, but scored more efficiently and in return, made his teammates and team better because of it.

iggypop123
04-12-2010, 05:47 PM
If Dwight was averaging 24 PPG, I think he'd get the MVP over James. At least, that's how it SHOULD go.

he's in the conversation, youd think an extra 8 points should put him way over the top

Hawkeye15
04-12-2010, 06:30 PM
Lebron, Melo, Kobe, Durant, Nash, Amare, Monta, Stephcurry, Paul, D-Will, Wade, Dirk, Bosh, Brandon Roy, Joe Johnson, Pau

he said top 10, not top 3 (Pau is right outside the top 10, Ellis around 30, Curry, cmon dude)

RadiantShot
04-12-2010, 06:49 PM
he's in the conversation, youd think an extra 8 points should put him way over the top

Yeah. He's in the conversation, but unless he's getting those crazy points, he won't get the MVP, which is sad. It definitely shouldn't be based on offense alone, but it's whatever. He's still getting the DPOY, so I could care less.

bbblack40
04-12-2010, 06:52 PM
ewing and alonzo were never the best players in the league...and they played at the same time as Jordan, Barkley and hakeem...whom are all better than them.

but shaq definitely deserved more...and nash 1 less imo...

im talking about MVP not best player in the league 2 differnet things i mean seriously nash has never been the best player in the league i mean i doubt teams were like aww snap nash is comin to town better bring our a game imo but zo and ewing did do so remarkable with their teams zo was dpy and lead the heat to a number 1 seed but no mvp recognition and ewing one yr lead the knicks to tha knicks a great record with impressive numbers but no mvp recognition but i we def. both agree on the shaq thing i mean thats jus ridculous

shep33
04-12-2010, 06:53 PM
I think we've found out that the MVP is the biggest joke over the past decade. It means absolutely nothing and doesn't prove anything.

First off, I love Steve Nash, guy is crazy good and hillarioius... however when all is said and done and we look back on NBA history Steve Nash has 2 MVP's to Shaq's 1. Shaq has 4 rings to Nash's 0. Again its nothing against Nash, its just that logically it doesn't make sense at all.

I think they should give it out at then end of the year to include playoffs.

LBJ does deserve it this year, but the system has to change.

MacFitz92
04-12-2010, 07:07 PM
who cares ???????? dwight shouldnt be mvp anyway lol thats like giving ben wallace mvp

Are you kidding me? Just get off the forums if your answers are going to be like this. Wallace is nowhere near Dwight Howard's skill.

Let me say this, I am in no way a Dwight Howard fan, or a Orlando Magic fan, but god damnit. The way the NBA is nowadays disguists me. Dwight Howard is the most dominant player at his position in the NBA, and it's not even close to the slightest degree. LeBron is phenominal, but the fact that Dwight is so underapreciated makes me sick. Nowadays it's about who scores the most points, Dwight should be Top 2 hands down. KD, Kobe, Melo, are you ****ing kidding me? They are all good, but can you honestly tell me Kobe has played better and has meant more to his team than Dwight? Let me answer that for you, HELL NO. Dwight is doing things that even Bill Russell and Wilt never did, and quite frankly it pisses me off to see people overlook him. If you have Kobe or KD over Dwight you are the epitome of ignorance.

MacFitz92
04-12-2010, 07:10 PM
I think we've found out that the MVP is the biggest joke over the past decade. It means absolutely nothing and doesn't prove anything.

First off, I love Steve Nash, guy is crazy good and hillarioius... however when all is said and done and we look back on NBA history Steve Nash has 2 MVP's to Shaq's 1. Shaq has 4 rings to Nash's 0. Again its nothing against Nash, its just that logically it doesn't make sense at all.

I think they should give it out at then end of the year to include playoffs.

LBJ does deserve it this year, but the system has to change.

:facepalm: They already have a Finals MVP. And the Championships has nothing to do with MVPs. MVP isn't a lifetime achievement award.

MacFitz92
04-12-2010, 07:14 PM
Shaq is the number one most dominant player of all time, can't no player stop a prime Shaq, don't compare Shaq to anyone. In his prime, Shaq would put up ridiculous numbers in any era, on anyone. If Bron scores less, distributes more, scoring the ball at about 4FG% higher, like Dwight has, his team would be even better for it.

Take Yao for example, he got less touches in the 2008-09 season, scored less than previous seasons, but scored more efficiently and in return, made his teammates and team better because of it.

That's not true. Wilt was the most dominant player of all time. Wilt has had 50.4 ppg in a season, as well as 44.8 one year. He has 7 years in which he averaged more than Shaq ever averaged. Not to mention he's dropped 100 in a game. Don't even try to argue that.

ryder78c
04-12-2010, 07:41 PM
Lebron does both and makes his team better...Van Gundy is a idiot howard mvp hahahahahaaaaaaaaaaaaa

RadiantShot
04-12-2010, 07:45 PM
Are you kidding me? Just get off the forums if your answers are going to be like this. Wallace is nowhere near Dwight Howard's skill.

Let me say this, I am in no way a Dwight Howard fan, or a Orlando Magic fan, but god damnit. The way the NBA is nowadays disguists me. Dwight Howard is the most dominant player at his position in the NBA, and it's not even close to the slightest degree. LeBron is phenominal, but the fact that Dwight is so underapreciated makes me sick. Nowadays it's about who scores the most points, Dwight should be Top 2 hands down. KD, Kobe, Melo, are you ****ing kidding me? They are all good, but can you honestly tell me Kobe has played better and has meant more to his team than Dwight? Let me answer that for you, HELL NO. Dwight is doing things that even Bill Russell and Wilt never did, and quite frankly it pisses me off to see people overlook him. If you have Kobe or KD over Dwight you are the epitome of ignorance.

:clap:

+10 Respect Points. :)

RadiantShot
04-12-2010, 07:46 PM
Lebron does both and makes his team better...Van Gundy is a idiot howard mvp hahahahahaaaaaaaaaaaaa

Sure. Van Gundy's an idiot. Let's go with that. That makes no sense at all. He's completely right. Don't be a douche-cake.

Raph12
04-12-2010, 07:57 PM
That's not true. Wilt was the most dominant player of all time. Wilt has had 50.4 ppg in a season, as well as 44.8 one year. He has 7 years in which he averaged more than Shaq ever averaged. Not to mention he's dropped 100 in a game. Don't even try to argue that.

That because he was playing in an extremely weak league, prime Shaq would dominate prime Wilt straight up.

Anon
04-12-2010, 07:58 PM
Umm... Stan said Lebron deserved to win the MVP this year.:shrug:

shep33
04-12-2010, 07:59 PM
:facepalm: They already have a Finals MVP. And the Championships has nothing to do with MVPs. MVP isn't a lifetime achievement award.

Maybe my post wasn't clear enough, without Shaq the Lakers wouldn't have won 3 straight, and gone to the finals 4 times. They wouldn't have gone 16-1 in the playoffs in 2001. Shaq had seasons from 99-2003 that were ridiculous. He should got like 3 mvps instead of 1. He was the most dominant figure in NBA history ever. On defense he was agile and blocked shots, while clogging the lane. On offense he shot super high percentages, and was a great passer. Furthermore, if you'd watch Shaq in the playoffs his regular season numbers get dwarfed. 31 and 15 throughout the playoffs a couple years is ridiculous.

Shaq still deserved more MVP's people that don't think so don't know what they're talking about. And IMO the MVP has to be looked at after playoffs. If it was, the Shaq would've had atleast 3 MVPs for the 3 times they won rings.

The Final Boss
04-12-2010, 08:09 PM
He's still not going to win a ring.

_KB24_
04-12-2010, 08:16 PM
It's still flawed. I still can't believe that Shaq only has one MVP trophy when no one was as valuable as him during his prime. The award is overrated.

MacFitz92
04-12-2010, 08:26 PM
That because he was playing in an extremely weak league, prime Shaq would dominate prime Wilt straight up.

That's not what you said, you said Shaq was the most dominant player in the history of the NBA, when that is clearly false. When Wilt played he was twice as dominant as Shaq minimum.

Also, who are you to put down Wilt, and say Shaq Prime would beat Wilt Prime. Disrespect the guys who made the NBA much? Who are you to say who was better when they were generations apart? It's just speculation, and no facts can change that.

iggypop123
04-12-2010, 08:28 PM
It's still flawed. I still can't believe that Shaq only has one MVP trophy when no one was as valuable as him during his prime. The award is overrated.

lol steve nash and dirk have more mvp's than kobe and shaq.
heck they tie with kobe and duncan.

MacFitz92
04-12-2010, 08:29 PM
It's still flawed. I still can't believe that Shaq only has one MVP trophy when no one was as valuable as him during his prime. The award is overrated.

I wouldn't say the MVP is overrated.

Also, on Shaq, it's hard to believe he only has one, but its not like he was more deserving than anyone who got it when he didn't. Karl Malone, Tim Duncan, AI, and KG? C'mon man.

MacFitz92
04-12-2010, 08:31 PM
lol steve nash and dirk have more mvp's than kobe and shaq.
heck they tie with kobe and duncan.

It takes one good year to win an MVP. I don't know why you're knocking Dirk for his. I'm pretty sure there was no doubt he'd win it that year.

Raph12
04-12-2010, 08:32 PM
That's not what you said, you said Shaq was the most dominant player in the history of the NBA, when that is clearly false. When Wilt played he was twice as dominant as Shaq minimum.

Also, who are you to put down Wilt, and say Shaq Prime would beat Wilt Prime. Disrespect the guys who made the NBA much? Who are you to say who was better when they were generations apart? It's just speculation, and no facts can change that.

Who am I? Who am I? Who the hell are you? I can say w/e the **** I want to say, that's one of the perks of living in a free country...

Wilt played against weak competition, Shaq didn't, Shaq dominated anyone in his path, Wilt didn't play against anyone over 7' or 240lbs, nuff said. If you watch Shaq play, you'd know he was unstoppable, no player in NBA history could stop Shaq one-on-one. Dominating a league with only 4 guys over 6'8" isn't that great of a feat IMO, I'm the first to speak up when comparing '60s basketball to today's league.

tredigs
04-12-2010, 08:33 PM
That's not what you said, you said Shaq was the most dominant player in the history of the NBA, when that is clearly false. When Wilt played he was twice as dominant as Shaq minimum.

Also, who are you to put down Wilt, and say Shaq Prime would beat Wilt Prime. Disrespect the guys who made the NBA much? Who are you to say who was better when they were generations apart? It's just speculation, and no facts can change that.

On the same note, calling the 60's a weak center generation while touting dwights "records" while still not even blocking 3 a game in this incredibly weak center class is always going to be VERY suspect to me. I don't care how much more athletic a player thinks the guards are now, I can guarantee you that before this decade is over (and there will be just as not if not more ahletic guards) you are going to see the top shotblockers blocking 3-4.5 a game. Winning a league with a 2.7 average is VERY rare.

So I disagree with both of your takes.

Toenail Clipper
04-12-2010, 08:33 PM
Blake Griffin will be competing for the MVP title in a couple of years. :D

MacFitz92
04-12-2010, 08:46 PM
Who am I? Who am I? Who the hell are you? I can say w/e the **** I want to say, that's one of the perks of living in a free country...

Wilt played against weak competition, Shaq didn't, Shaq dominated anyone in his path, Wilt didn't play against anyone over 7' or 240lbs, nuff said. If you watch Shaq play, you'd know he was unstoppable, no player in NBA history could stop Shaq one-on-one. Dominating a league with only 4 guys over 6'8" isn't that great of a feat IMO, I'm the first to speak up when comparing '60s basketball to today's league.

Speculation. Speculation. Speculation. Wilt was 7'1" just like Shaq, how in the ****ing hell do you think you can just say Shaq was way better when they were in different generations? Your ignorance is laughable. Shaq could dominate Wilt based off what? Your NBA 2k9 simulations? My ***.

jackdawson
04-12-2010, 08:46 PM
I have always wondered how Shaq had only one mvp. Considering what he has done consistently for over a decade (while of course winning multiple championships), he should have gotten the award 5/6 times.

However, I totally agree with SVG that Lebron will probably go down as the most mvp winner of all time. I don't really see anyone else getting it. I mean he will be always be on a contender regardless and no one will put up such ridiculous numbers (30/8/9).

MacFitz92
04-12-2010, 08:51 PM
I have always wondered how Shaq had only one mvp. Considering what he has done consistently for over a decade (while of course winning multiple championships), he should have gotten the award 5/6 times.

However, I totally agree with SVG that Lebron will probably go down as the most mvp winner of all time. I don't really see anyone else getting it. I mean he will be always be on a contender regardless and no one will put up such ridiculous numbers (30/8/9).

Hmm, it sounds right based off of his caliber, but check again. Try naming 4 or even 3 seasons he "should" have won it. I dare you.

prodigy
04-12-2010, 08:56 PM
I love the part when he says its based on scoring. Never mind the fact Lebron averages 7boards 8 assits a steal and a block a game. No Lebron can only score lol.

BTW- Lebron averaged 38-8-8 vs magic in playoffs last season. He should know better.

tredigs
04-12-2010, 08:58 PM
I have always wondered how Shaq had only one mvp. Considering what he has done consistently for over a decade (while of course winning multiple championships), he should have gotten the award 5/6 times.

However, I totally agree with SVG that Lebron will probably go down as the most mvp winner of all time. I don't really see anyone else getting it. I mean he will be always be on a contender regardless and no one will put up such ridiculous numbers (30/8/9).

Overall dominance, yes he was right there with the best -- but like Jerry Sloan and the coaching award, it's not a lifetime achievement award. You're talking about going against guys like Hakeem, prime Karl Malone (who was putting up 30 and 11 as a better defender than Shaq), some dude named Michael Jordan, Tim Duncan, etc. No way you win five or six MVP's with those types of guys in their prime at the same time... well, unless you're Michael Jordan.

Raph12
04-12-2010, 09:13 PM
Speculation. Speculation. Speculation. Wilt was 7'1" just like Shaq, how in the ****ing hell do you think you can just say Shaq was way better when they were in different generations? Your ignorance is laughable. Shaq could dominate Wilt based off what? Your NBA 2k9 simulations? My ***.

Shaq was 7'1" 348lbs during the Lakers reign as 3-time champs, he was too big to be stopped by anyone, no one had the strength to match Shaq and contain him without fouling him.

Hakeem and Mutombo were some of, if not the best, defensive centers of all-time, yet both of them got abused by Shaq just because of his overwhelming strength. Add his terrific passing ability, great positioning and footwork, and he's literally unguardable.

jackdawson
04-12-2010, 09:17 PM
Overall dominance, yes he was right there with the best -- but like Jerry Sloan and the coaching award, it's not a lifetime achievement award. You're talking about going against guys like Hakeem, prime Karl Malone (who was putting up 30 and 11 as a better defender than Shaq), some dude named Michael Jordan, Tim Duncan, etc. No way you win five or six MVP's with those types of guys in their prime at the same time... well, unless you're Michael Jordan.

I agree that he played in a tough era. And by my statement I meant a player of his caliber could have had 5/6 mvps (not necessarily he deserved).
Also, no other player you mentioned above has a resume as rich as Shaq except the GOAT.

MacFitz92
04-12-2010, 09:21 PM
Shaq was 7'1" 348lbs during the Lakers reign as 3-time champs, he was too big to be stopped by anyone, no one had the strength to match Shaq and contain him without fouling him.

Hakeem and Mutombo were some of, if not the best, defensive centers of all-time, yet both of them got abused by Shaq just because of his overwhelming strength. Add his terrific passing ability, great positioning and footwork, and he's literally unguardable.

He never went against Wilt. Wilt was 7'1". I don't know if you're stubborn or ********. Your just speculating. You have no idea, and you sound like a dumbass stating that Wilt couldn't stop Shaq in his prime. I guarentee you most people consider Wilt to be a better player than Shaq. Just for you, I'll create a thread for it.

JNA17
04-12-2010, 09:29 PM
Hmm, it sounds right based off of his caliber, but check again. Try naming 4 or even 3 seasons he "should" have won it. I dare you.

i'll play :D.

1994
1995
1997 (tough one though)
2005

jackdawson
04-12-2010, 09:32 PM
i'll play :d.

1994
1995
1997 (tough one though)
2005

+2001.

Raph12
04-12-2010, 10:19 PM
He never went against Wilt. Wilt was 7'1". I don't know if you're stubborn or ********. Your just speculating. You have no idea, and you sound like a dumbass stating that Wilt couldn't stop Shaq in his prime. I guarentee you most people consider Wilt to be a better player than Shaq. Just for you, I'll create a thread for it.

Duh I'm just speculating, I obviously can't take Shaq, go back in time and let the two face off. Comparing players of different eras is always based off speculation.

Btw I couldn't care less if a bunch of idiots come on to this site, search up Wilt's name, see 50.4ppg and say Wilt's better... It goes way beyond the stats.

Raph12
04-12-2010, 10:19 PM
+2001.

Naw I'd give that one to AI.

JNA17
04-12-2010, 10:28 PM
+2001.

that year i give it to Ai, he was insane in 2001.

MacFitz92
04-12-2010, 10:30 PM
i'll play :D.

1994
1995
1997 (tough one though)
2005

1994: Dream: 27.3 ppg 11.9 rpg 3.71 bpg ; 58 wins
Shaq: 29.3 ppg 13.2 rpg 2.8 bpg ; 50 wins

Dream wins. Stats wash, better team.

1995: Robinson won and had 27.6 ppg 10.8 rpg and 3.23 bpg ; 62 wins
Shaq had 29.3 ppg 11.4 rpg, but 2.4 bpg ; 57 wins

Robinson wins. Stats wash, better team.

1997: Mailman: 27.4 ppg 9.9 rpg 4.5 apg .59 bpg ; 64 wins
Shaq: 26.2 ppg 12.5 rpg 3.1 apg 2.9 bpg ; 56 wins

Mailman wins. Stats Wash, better team.

2005: Nash 23.9 ppg 11.3 apg 4.8 rpg .2bpg ; 62 wins
Shaq: 22.9 ppg 2.7 apg 10.4 rpg 2.3 bpg ; 59 wins

Stats close, maybe edge to Nash; Suns 3 more wins.



If you notice, every time a player on a better team with better/even stats with him beat him.

MacFitz92
04-12-2010, 10:31 PM
Duh I'm just speculating, I obviously can't take Shaq, go back in time and let the two face off. Comparing players of different eras is always based off speculation.

Btw I couldn't care less if a bunch of idiots come on to this site, search up Wilt's name, see 50.4ppg and say Wilt's better... It goes way beyond the stats.

You're a complete moron if you think that people don't know who Wilt is. They don't just look up Wilt Chamberlain on wikipedia :facepalm:. It's a known fact that Wilt was better than Shaq and Wilt is often regarded as the best center of all time.

MacFitz92
04-12-2010, 10:36 PM
Shaq is the number one most dominant player of all time, can't no player stop a prime Shaq, don't compare Shaq to anyone. In his prime, Shaq would put up ridiculous numbers in any era, on anyone. If Bron scores less, distributes more, scoring the ball at about 4FG% higher, like Dwight has, his team would be even better for it.

Take Yao for example, he got less touches in the 2008-09 season, scored less than previous seasons, but scored more efficiently and in return, made his teammates and team better because of it.

It all goes back to this statement that you made. It isn't true, you couldn't admit it, you just tried to cover it up with saying **** like "If Wilt were playing now" BS. But Wilt dominated like no other, and your quite frankly ignorant if you think otherwise.

Raph12
04-12-2010, 10:45 PM
You're a complete moron if you think that people don't know who Wilt is. They don't just look up Wilt Chamberlain on wikipedia :facepalm:. It's a known fact that Wilt was better than Shaq and Wilt is often regarded as the best center of all time.

No people don't know who Wilt is, if you haven't seen him play (and I mean more than just watching a highlight reel), then you don't know who he is.

Wilt is not the best center of all time and most people who say he is, haven't seen him play enough and haven't seen other top centers play enough.


It all goes back to this statement that you made. It isn't true, you couldn't admit it, you just tried to cover it up with saying **** like "If Wilt were playing now" BS. But Wilt dominated like no other, and your quite frankly ignorant if you think otherwise.

Shaq is the most dominant player in league history, I stand by my statement. Wilt was dominant and unstoppable in the '60s, but seeming as how I don't hold that era in very high regard in terms of talent/size/athleticism; I discredit his achievements like I do Russell's, and that may be unethical or w/e, but idc.

JNA17
04-12-2010, 10:50 PM
1994: Dream: 27.3 ppg 11.9 rpg 3.71 bpg ; 58 wins
Shaq: 29.3 ppg 13.2 rpg 2.8 bpg ; 50 wins

Dream wins. Stats wash, better team.

1995: Robinson won and had 27.6 ppg 10.8 rpg and 3.23 bpg ; 62 wins
Shaq had 29.3 ppg 11.4 rpg, but 2.4 bpg ; 57 wins

Robinson wins. Stats wash, better team.

1997: Mailman: 27.4 ppg 9.9 rpg 4.5 apg .59 bpg ; 64 wins
Shaq: 26.2 ppg 12.5 rpg 3.1 apg 2.9 bpg ; 56 wins

Mailman wins. Stats Wash, better team.

2005: Nash 23.9 ppg 11.3 apg 4.8 rpg .2bpg ; 62 wins
Shaq: 22.9 ppg 2.7 apg 10.4 rpg 2.3 bpg ; 59 wins

Stats close, maybe edge to Nash; Suns 3 more wins.



If you notice, every time a player on a better team with better/even stats with him beat him.

lol the only thing your really taking into account is stats wise. Team wise, the wins are very damn similar. You forgot about a bunch of other stuff as well. Like the fact the team improved more with shaq in 1994.

1993: magic 41-41
1993: rockets 55-27

1994: magic 50-32
1994: rockets 58-24

rockets, not much of an improvement, still a great team, and magic became a really good team. Shaq had a much bigger impact on the magic then hakeem did in that year and shaq even beat hakeem almost everything stats wise.

1995, Once again, if your going with stats, shaq beats hakeem that year in every category. That and the fact that the magic once again improved much more then rockets did. Once again, bigger impact in those 2 years, shaq. Playoffs also don't mean **** at all since this award is, wait for it....REGULAR SEASON.

AND AGAIN, bigger impact. This time shaq on the lakers, let's take a look at the lakers the year before and the spurs a year before.

WTF robinson? he played SIX GAMES that year lol? and the spurs were terrible too. Although your saying mailman, do you karl malone?

and wow, three more wins, alright awesome. Although yes everything is pretty close but with no defense nash, i would have gave that too shaq

JNA17
04-12-2010, 10:51 PM
ah crap just noticed i misread some things on the post, too lazy to change my post though -_-.

_KB24_
04-12-2010, 11:33 PM
You're a complete moron if you think that people don't know who Wilt is. They don't just look up Wilt Chamberlain on wikipedia :facepalm:. It's a known fact that Wilt was better than Shaq and Wilt is often regarded as the best center of all time.

But its true. I can say around 90% of PSDers know nothing about Wilt other than his 100 point game. Because thats the only argument they bring up. For God's sake, Wilt jacked up 40 SHOTS A GAME for an ENTIRE SEASON. Some teams don't even shoot that much in an entire game nowadays! Look at how dominant a prime Shaq was in a MUCH TOUGHER league. He still got his 28 and 12 a night. Not to mention the Hack-a-Shaq which denied him atleast 6 points a game. Now imagine Shaq back then against average "Luke Waltons" guarding him. He would no doubt murder down low because he was the stronger and more dominant big man.

I could see Shaq averaging 40+ ppg, 20 rbg, 5 bpg, and even 7-10 apg.

montazingmvp
04-13-2010, 12:19 AM
Shaq was 7'1" 348lbs during the Lakers reign as 3-time champs, he was too big to be stopped by anyone, no one had the strength to match Shaq and contain him without fouling him.

Hakeem and Mutombo were some of, if not the best, defensive centers of all-time, yet both of them got abused by Shaq just because of his overwhelming strength. Add his terrific passing ability, great positioning and footwork, and he's literally unguardable.

shaq never dominated hakeem..in fact, when they matched up Hakeem dominated more often than not

hakeem was a much better defender than shaq. and equally dominant on the offensive side that year...

award goes to hakeem, deservedly

Aapox
04-13-2010, 01:27 AM
This reminds of of Chuck and Kenny arguing with the TNT guy that he has a vote and they don't the other night during the Cavs/Bulls game. That was HILARIOUS!

Raph12
04-13-2010, 01:45 AM
shaq never dominated hakeem..in fact, when they matched up Hakeem dominated more often than not

hakeem was a much better defender than shaq. and equally dominant on the offensive side that year...

award goes to hakeem, deservedly

Shaq was a more dominant player in his prime, Hakeem at 32 (arguably having his best season ever), held a 22 year old Shaq to 28.0ppg-12.5rpg-6.5apg-2.5bpg on 59.5FG%. Compared to Hakeem's 32.8ppg-11.5rpg-5.5apg-2bpg on 48.3FG%, I think Shaq did more than hold his own against the GOAT to play center.

I agree the Dream was a better player, but a prime Shaq was still the most dominant on offense.

GOON MUSIC
04-13-2010, 02:12 AM
lol @ someone saying dwights a top ten offensive player

Roy Rogers
04-13-2010, 02:16 AM
Well it's not like the media is being a bunch of homers, Lebron is legit

ryder78c
04-13-2010, 02:24 AM
Sure. Van Gundy's an idiot. Let's go with that. That makes no sense at all. He's completely right. Don't be a douche-cake.

yeah he's right in the eyes of a magic fan..... i would say some more about you but your picture of matt barnes says enough about you

Van gundys a idiot he likes to throw shots at LBJ Cuz he cant win anything hahaaaa

Avenged
04-13-2010, 02:29 AM
yeah he right in the eyes of a magic fan..... i would say some more about you but your picture of matt barnes says enough

Radiant gets bashed on all the time for having Matt Barnes on his sig but who the hell cares? He doesn't need to have a superstar if he doesn't want to.

slack_justin
04-13-2010, 02:29 AM
who cares? the all stars should matter more. it affects more players and has to do with the HOF. but people still seem to think its only about fans, so crap players like iverson and shaq still get in. (not that they were always bad)

FOBolous
04-16-2010, 01:27 AM
Shaq is the number one most dominant player of all time, can't no player stop a prime Shaq, don't compare Shaq to anyone. In his prime, Shaq would put up ridiculous numbers in any era, on anyone. If Bron scores less, distributes more, scoring the ball at about 4FG% higher, like Dwight has, his team would be even better for it.

Take Yao for example, he got less touches in the 2008-09 season, scored less than previous seasons, but scored more efficiently and in return, made his teammates and team better because of it.

his point is if Dwight is as dominant as you make him out to be, he would be the focal point of the offense no matter how much talent the team has. if you have a player of that caliber, it makes no sense for you to hold him back and not run your offense through him. the thing with dwight though is he is NOT a player of that caliber that's why Orlando don't and can't run their offense through him.

as far as the Yao example though...the reason why he has less touches is because of his injuries. but even with his injuries and his less touches...Houston STILL run their offense through yao. the first thing Houston almost always do when they run their offense is to pass the ball to Yao first and let yao create.

Raph12
04-16-2010, 01:06 PM
his point is if Dwight is as dominant as you make him out to be, he would be the focal point of the offense no matter how much talent the team has. if you have a player of that caliber, it makes no sense for you to hold him back and not run your offense through him. the thing with dwight though is he is NOT a player of that caliber that's why Orlando don't and can't run their offense through him.

as far as the Yao example though...the reason why he has less touches is because of his injuries. but even with his injuries and his less touches...Houston STILL run their offense through yao. the first thing Houston almost always do when they run their offense is to pass the ball to Yao first and let yao create.

Dwight gets significantly more touches than everyone on the team, the only player with a higher USG rate (barely), is Vince Carter and that's because he's a better creator.

Yao played 77 games last season, so idk what you're getting at. If you take Yao's numbers from last year and compare it to Dwight's; Yao had the same assist numbers, similar turnover numbers, about the same amount of shots (taking FTs into account) and his USG% only 2% higher... Fact is, the Rockets prospered from playing with a more well-balanced attack.

When Dwight isn't surrounded by offensive talent, then get at me about his touches and offensive numbers.

JasonJohnHorn
04-16-2010, 02:30 PM
I like SVG and think he's a great coach, but this is just him trying to pimp his man to the media for MVP consideration. The media DOES consider defence, and to say that the focus on offence and that's why LBJ will win is a slap in the face to a guy who get far more steals that Howard and is much more versatile than Howard on defence. Howard is a far more domiant interior presence, and a better shot blocker, but LBJ has to guard inside and outside, and his hustle on defensive plays is second to none.

And the past has seen DPOY candidates win MVP (Jordan comes to mind, and well as LBJ and Bryant and Duncan and Garnett, and Hakeem and Robinson, ect, ect ,ect) and while some MVP's have been a little weak on defence (Nash and Iverson for example) both were, in the seasons which they won the award, arguably more important to their team's success than any other player in the league.

James isnt a "scoring" only player, he is a great rebounder, a great play maker, a great defender and his offensive games blows Howard out of the water. I'm not even sure what SVG was trying to get at with this. It makes no sense. He's just talking out of his @$$

RadiantShot
04-16-2010, 02:48 PM
Radiant gets bashed on all the time for having Matt Barnes on his sig but who the hell cares? He doesn't need to have a superstar if he doesn't want to.

Thanks. Someone backs me up once in a while. I don't like the stereotyped PSD members, who only have signatures of Lebron, Kobe, Durant, etc. There's more to the game of Basketball than just the Superstar's scoring. Good lookin' out, Avenged.

Anon
04-16-2010, 02:52 PM
Dwight gets significantly more touches than everyone on the team, the only player with a higher USG rate (barely), is Vince Carter and that's because he's a better creator.

Yao played 77 games last season, so idk what you're getting at. If you take Yao's numbers from last year and compare it to Dwight's; Yao had the same assist numbers, similar turnover numbers, about the same amount of shots (taking FTs into account) and his USG% only 2% higher... Fact is, the Rockets prospered from playing with a more well-balanced attack.

When Dwight isn't surrounded by offensive talent, then get at me about his touches and offensive numbers.

I always wonder if the people who criticize Dwight's offensive game ever watch the Magic play.

MELO 15
04-16-2010, 02:53 PM
barkley won an mvp...and pippen, really?

What do u mean, when u say pippen really? of course pippen deserved one the year robinson won it. He was the best in the league that year, and if it wasn't 4 that hubert davis ticky tack foul from behind the arc, he would have a championship as well. How do u lead ur team in evey category statistically, and not win the mvp?

Unruly Fan
04-16-2010, 03:06 PM
MVP = best offensive player on a top 5 team
DPOY = best defensive player on a top 5 team

they should just change the name. IMO the DPOY award is just as significant as MVP.

I still think DOPY is 2D compared to the MVP

MVP = Player with the overall highest stock value in the NBA

JordansBulls
04-17-2010, 06:02 PM
Dwight became the first player to ever lead in FG%, rebounds and blocks in the same season. He merits some MVP consideration as well especially considering the Magic had the same record as last year and the 2nd best record in the league while the Cavs won 5 less games this year.

Raph12
04-17-2010, 07:36 PM
Dwight became the first player to ever lead in FG%, rebounds and blocks in the same season. He merits some MVP consideration as well especially considering the Magic had the same record as last year and the 2nd best record in the league while the Cavs won 5 less games this year.

See my "Congratz Dwight Howard! thread...

$ NyC $
04-17-2010, 07:46 PM
Funny how coincidentally his brother said that he sees no way that LBJ won't win MVP for the next 6 or 7 years.

Would love to see the kinda discussions and arguments they have during the holidays :D

RadiantShot
04-17-2010, 08:01 PM
JVG & SVG Probably hate eachother in real life. Hence JVG saying that he picks the Bobcats to win the Playoffs series against us in 6 games, he always criticizes us during the game, and talks about how we're not contenders, as well.

magicdouglas
04-17-2010, 11:58 PM
JVG & SVG Probably hate eachother in real life. Hence JVG saying that he picks the Bobcats to win the Playoffs series against us in 6 games, he always criticizes us during the game, and talks about how we're not contenders, as well.

:facepalm::facepalm: SVG prolly farted in his face as a kid :facepalm: