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View Full Version : End of Season Awards.... Team Record vs Individual #s.... Deciding Factor?



Swashcuff
04-11-2010, 04:49 PM
Which matters more when it comes to the individual end of season awards?

To me despite his team's record a player should be given ample recognition for his individual accomplishments. It is not his fault that he is on a bad team or has a bad coach.

It goes back to the debate of ROY when some say Jennings is the most deserving or ALL NBA teams when it is said that Horford deserves a spot it more that Chris Bosh, Chris Kaman or David Lee. I think regardless of the team's record at the end of the day the best players are the best players and should not be held accountable for playing along side below par players.

The exception IMO is if the two players' have similar numbers team record and impact should be the deciding factor. But in a case where a player OBVIOUSLY deserves his accolade team record should be thrown out the window.

What do you guys think?

Sly Guy
04-11-2010, 05:27 PM
they do get recognition for individual accomplishments. They're called contracts.

Reversed86Curse
04-11-2010, 05:35 PM
they do get recognition for individual accomplishments. They're called contracts.

You could say the same thing for MVP, whens the last time it went to a player who, if you took him off the roster, they would clearly be much worse. Take LBJ or Kobe off of their teams and they're still playoff teams- take some one like a Durant or a Duncan off of their teams and they're much worse

Raph12
04-11-2010, 06:44 PM
Why isn't there a "both" option?

Swashcuff
04-11-2010, 10:31 PM
Why isn't there a "both" option?

I'm asking which is more important in your opinion.

DerekRE_3
04-11-2010, 10:48 PM
It depends on the award.

Swashcuff
04-11-2010, 10:54 PM
It depends on the award.

Ok then so you list which one weighs more on individual stats and which one weighs more on team success. MVP IMO is the only only one that should heavily weigh on team's success. ROY and MIP for example should not.

Raph12
04-11-2010, 11:16 PM
Ok then so you list which one weighs more on individual stats and which one weighs more on team success. MVP IMO is the only only one that should heavily weigh on team's success. ROY and MIP for example should not.

MVP - Both
DPOY - Stats
SMOY - Stats
COY - Record
MIP - Stats
ROY - Both

Swashcuff
04-11-2010, 11:28 PM
MVP - Both
DPOY - Stats
SMOY - Stats
COY - Record
MIP - Stats
ROY - Both

i agree on all except ROY. Its not a good rookie's fault if he's placed on a bad team. I always hear everyone say that one player doesn't make a team and there is no I in team so why does a team (which in most cases wasn't all the good the previous year) record have to merit on the who is the ROY.

The exception I'd make is if both rookies had similar stats. But other than that I really don't understand. I mean some people saying Jennings deserves it more than Tyreke because his team is better is just ignorant. Put Tyreke on the Bucks and they'd be singing a whole other tune. A rook should not be penalized because his team just isn't that good. At least that's jus MY opinion.

Raoul Duke
04-11-2010, 11:40 PM
I voted team success, but I added extra criteria of my own because it didn't seem that black and white to me. So, I'm voting team success in the context of how it relates to the players who are already in the MVP consideration based largely on their individual accomplishments.

Raph12
04-11-2010, 11:41 PM
i agree on all except ROY. Its not a good rookie's fault if he's placed on a bad team. I always hear everyone say that one player doesn't make a team and there is no I in team so why does a team (which in most cases wasn't all the good the previous year) record have to merit on the who is the ROY.

The exception I'd make is if both rookies had similar stats. But other than that I really don't understand. I mean some people saying Jennings deserves it more than Tyreke because his team is better is just ignorant. Put Tyreke on the Bucks and they'd be singing a whole other tune. A rook should not be penalized because his team just isn't that good. At least that's jus MY opinion.

That's why I said both, Jennings stats are terrible (37FG%), if Curry was on the Bucks, he'd be the clear cut ROY because he'd have nice stats (even though Reke's is better) and be leading his team into the playoffs.

Chronz
04-12-2010, 01:22 PM
There is no direct correlation between your stats and how much you win, people like to act as if putting up #'s on a bad team is any easier, its not. It could be the opposite on many cases. What you measure is their efficiency in their role damnit, I say it all the time. Pretty much I find that most people who talk about stats being inflated, dont know what the **** theyre talkin about. They just like spewing out cliches with no real understanding of how to measure a players impact.

That said, your teammates do have an effect on you, and winning does matter but it shouldnt always be the tie breaker. The players stats matter more

Swashcuff
04-12-2010, 03:20 PM
There is no direct correlation between your stats and how much you win, people like to act as if putting up #'s on a bad team is any easier, its not. It could be the opposite on many cases. What you measure is their efficiency in their role damnit, I say it all the time. Pretty much I find that most people who talk about stats being inflated, dont know what the **** theyre talkin about. They just like spewing out cliches with no real understanding of how to measure a players impact.

That said, your teammates do have an effect on you, and winning does matter but it shouldnt always be the tie breaker. The players stats matter more

:clap: nice post

ballpd05
04-12-2010, 03:29 PM
Team accomplishments should always be the number one goal when you play a team sport.

I do not believe that individual awards should be influenced too much on the team's performance though.

Tyreke Evans being ROY is understandable because he was the rookie that had the biggest impact on his team. He literally is the man on that squad where as Jennings is a man. His time was belly flopping around the all-star break and they got John Salmons who must've been one of the missing pieces because they have been lights out since. Or if someone was a 5 point a game scorer and he goes to a bad team and is now a 25 ppg scorer I think he would deserve MIP consideration.

I believe Chris Paul should have beat Kobe two years ago for the MVP award he led the Hornets to the 2nd seed in the West with a team that literally relied on him to shoulder the entire load, where as Kobe had Lamar Odom, Pau Gasol, and Andrew Bynum to defer too. This year Kevin Durant is in that same mold where I believe he deserves it more than Lebron, but that is kind of close.

I don't think a terrible team should get the MVP because how valuable can u be if the team loses all the time with you and loses all the time without you. But I don't believe that it always has to go to the best team because they often have the best supporting cast surround their best player.

JLynn943
04-12-2010, 03:33 PM
i agree on all except ROY. Its not a good rookie's fault if he's placed on a bad team. I always hear everyone say that one player doesn't make a team and there is no I in team so why does a team (which in most cases wasn't all the good the previous year) record have to merit on the who is the ROY.

The exception I'd make is if both rookies had similar stats. But other than that I really don't understand. I mean some people saying Jennings deserves it more than Tyreke because his team is better is just ignorant. Put Tyreke on the Bucks and they'd be singing a whole other tune. A rook should not be penalized because his team just isn't that good. At least that's jus MY opinion.

I agree completely. The top draft picks (usually) go to the worst teams, so it's ridiculous to expect that one rookie can completely turn around a team. The Kings had the worst record last year, so obviously they had a lot more problems than one player could solve. It makes no sense to devalue what Evans has done based on the players around him.

Jennings had the luxury of being drafted by a good team where PG really was the major thing they needed. I'm not knocking Jennings, but that team was already set up for him to succeed. If they didn't improve, I'd question his abilities.

Swashcuff
04-13-2010, 11:00 AM
I agree completely. The top draft picks (usually) go to the worst teams, so it's ridiculous to expect that one rookie can completely turn around a team. The Kings had the worst record last year, so obviously they had a lot more problems than one player could solve. It makes no sense to devalue what Evans has done based on the players around him.

Jennings had the luxury of being drafted by a good team where PG really was the major thing they needed. I'm not knocking Jennings, but that team was already set up for him to succeed. If they didn't improve, I'd question his abilities.

Exactly

KnicksorBust
04-13-2010, 11:07 AM
Most Improved - Individual #'s

ROY - Individual #'s

MVP - Team Success

montazingmvp
04-13-2010, 11:09 AM
MVP - Both
DPOY - Stats
SMOY - Stats
COY - Record
MIP - Stats
ROY - Both

winning should have nothing to do with roy...

the best rookie's are drafted to the worst teams in the league...

montazingmvp
04-13-2010, 11:12 AM
jennings has been a decent player for the bucks...he's a good distributor for a rookie...
but he's been horrible at pretty much everything else...

the bucks are having the success they are because they're the third best defensive team in the league. thanks to bogut and the coach's defensive system...

jenning has very little to do with the defensive success of the bucks which has been by far and away they're strongest point...therefore has only lead a small role in the teams overall success.

Swashcuff
04-13-2010, 02:23 PM
jennings has been a decent player for the bucks...he's a good distributor for a rookie...
but he's been horrible at pretty much everything else...

the bucks are having the success they are because they're the third best defensive team in the league. thanks to bogut and the coach's defensive system...

jenning has very little to do with the defensive success of the bucks which has been by far and away they're strongest point...therefore has only lead a small role in the teams overall success.

very good point

NBAfan4life
04-13-2010, 03:05 PM
Why do people keep making a big fuss about team record having an effect on rookie of the year. It doesn't dont get nervous Evans fans even though some people think Jennings should win based on team success he wont. ROY has always been a stats award