PDA

View Full Version : John Hollinger: Dwyane Wade is the Best Defensive 2 Guard in the NBA



D Roses Bulls
04-09-2010, 07:43 PM
Dwyane Wade is the best defensive 2-guard in the game. Here's why:

Miami is fourth in defensive efficiency this season. Fourth. Look at that roster and give me one good reason the Heat rank that highly. I'll give you the answer: Because they have a 6-foot-4 guard who can block shots at the rim, snuff out opposing plays from the weak side and generally wreak havoc off the ball.

Wade used to cancel out his prolific play by gambling too much, but now he is picking his spots and as a result has become the league's best freelancer. Wade is good on the ball, too, but his best work comes when he can defend a secondary option and roam.

http://espn.go.com/nba/dailydime/_/page/dime-freeagencywade-100409/dwyane-wade

I totally agree with this

thescore53
04-09-2010, 07:54 PM
you right he is, weird to say because he's unanimously third best player in the league but he's underrated

Master Mind
04-09-2010, 08:00 PM
And 5...4...3...2...1

Let the hate begin....:hide:

Ethix11
04-09-2010, 08:07 PM
Nothing new to me. About time it gets recognized.

dwadefan03
04-09-2010, 08:08 PM
finally someone realizes. i thought he should of won dpoy or at least should have been second last year.


oh yea and its really gay that he got snubbed from the all defensive 1st team by kobe bryant. hes a good defender but highly overraeted on that end of the court

Venomous88
04-09-2010, 08:11 PM
Only people I can see disagreeing with this is Kobe and Roy heads

RadiantShot
04-09-2010, 08:22 PM
It's true. I agree.

I wouldn't agree that their record is that good just because of his defense though. It's obviously his overall impact.

td0tsfinest
04-09-2010, 08:39 PM
I can't hate on that. Hopefully people don't snub him for the defensive team.

bbblack40
04-09-2010, 08:47 PM
finally someone realizes. i thought he should of won dpoy or at least should have been second last year.


oh yea and its really gay that he got snubbed from the all defensive 1st team by kobe bryant. hes a good defender but highly overraeted on that end of the court

you gotta realize sports writers vote for all the awards and at the end of the day its a popularity contest i found it odd that wade voted 3rd in the DPOY award but the same writes voted kobe on all first team defense and wade was voted 2nd team. LA is a bigger market and get more air time since they when more and some writers that vote jus go off of sportscenter highlights instead of actually watching games. so i wouldnt be surprised if the samething happens again this yr which wud be so wrong.

PC
04-09-2010, 08:55 PM
Eh, you could definitely make a great case for Wade but I would still give the slight edge to Kobe

Hawkeye15
04-09-2010, 09:01 PM
Wade has become an elite defender. In all reality, he has passed Kobe as the best SG in the NBA, and I know I will get blasted for it, but it's true. Wade is the 2nd best player in the NBA, and is a complete player now at both ends.

HoopsDrive
04-09-2010, 09:04 PM
Wade has become an elite defender. In all reality, he has passed Kobe as the best SG in the NBA, and I know I will get blasted for it, but it's true. Wade is the 2nd best player in the NBA, and is a complete player now at both ends.

Nice knowin' you man :violin:

RadiantShot
04-09-2010, 09:07 PM
Wade has become an elite defender. In all reality, he has passed Kobe as the best SG in the NBA, and I know I will get blasted for it, but it's true. Wade is the 2nd best player in the NBA, and is a complete player now at both ends.

:cry:
Brave, brave man.

D Roses Bulls
04-09-2010, 09:16 PM
Wade has become an elite defender. In all reality, he has passed Kobe as the best SG in the NBA, and I know I will get blasted for it, but it's true. Wade is the 2nd best player in the NBA, and is a complete player now at both ends.

actually i agree with you. i think wade hasnt gotten the attention as kobe has since wade won finals mvp in 2006 because he has been on some bad teams, but i actually think as well wade is the best sg at least in the NBA. so if we both go down, we can go down together, but i dont know i think wade in my opinion could be the best player in the NBA. there i said it

Jahari Kavi
04-09-2010, 09:21 PM
I always thought D. Wade was an underrated defender....especially given the fact that he's a 6'4 SG

Iodine
04-09-2010, 09:45 PM
Hawkeye I like your balls, I will protect you

Hoopsadvocate
04-09-2010, 10:00 PM
Wade has become an elite defender. In all reality, he has passed Kobe as the best SG in the NBA, and I know I will get blasted for it, but it's true. Wade is the 2nd best player in the NBA, and is a complete player now at both ends.

i think i love you for this post.

D Roses Bulls
04-09-2010, 10:02 PM
i think i love you for this post.

i like your sig, but actually man go back to january and february of 2009 on my posts when jameer first fell from injury, actually i called it that they would still make the finals.

dwadefan03
04-09-2010, 10:03 PM
actually i agree with you. i think wade hasnt gotten the attention as kobe has since wade won finals mvp in 2006 because he has been on some bad teams, but i actually think as well wade is the best sg at least in the NBA. so if we both go down, we can go down together, but i dont know i think wade in my opinion could be the best player in the NBA. there i said it


Wade has become an elite defender. In all reality, he has passed Kobe as the best SG in the NBA, and I know I will get blasted for it, but it's true. Wade is the 2nd best player in the NBA, and is a complete player now at both ends.


I always thought D. Wade was an underrated defender....especially given the fact that he's a 6'4 SG

all of you are very intelligent

LayZbone
04-09-2010, 10:07 PM
Wade has become an elite defender. In all reality, he has passed Kobe as the best SG in the NBA, and I know I will get blasted for it, but it's true. Wade is the 2nd best player in the NBA, and is a complete player now at both ends.

Yeah, you're about to get blasted. But if it helps, you're my hero.

heathonater
04-09-2010, 10:08 PM
surprised the boards havent gotten violent yet. hollinger brings up good points and i agree that wade is equal to kobe right now. wade just doesnt have the team around him to make a serious playoff run.

Nikeman
04-09-2010, 10:24 PM
Wade will get the recognition he deserves next season when he's playing with a superstar, and has a team the caliber of Kobe.

As a Heat fan, I am praying its Miami, but I can say 100% that Wade will be playing with a high quality team next season

Toenail Clipper
04-09-2010, 10:26 PM
Wade has become an elite defender. In all reality, he has passed Kobe as the best SG in the NBA, and I know I will get blasted for it, but it's true. Wade is the 2nd best player in the NBA, and is a complete player now at both ends.

:hide:

HoopsDrive
04-09-2010, 10:31 PM
Wooowww, no bashings yet? Must be a new record...

jackdawson
04-09-2010, 10:52 PM
Wade has become an elite defender. In all reality, he has passed Kobe as the best SG in the NBA, and I know I will get blasted for it, but it's true. Wade is the 2nd best player in the NBA, and is a complete player now at both ends.

This^^^.

I have been saying this since last year. Wade has to be in all nba defensive 1st team instead of Kobe. He deserved it last year. How on earth he was not on that team after finishing 3rd in DPOY voting (Higher than kobe)?
Plus, it's weired to say he is underrated but he is definately the 2nd best player in the league behind Lebron. Some people just can't forget Kobe's unreal 2005-06 season and hence they can't deal with wade.

Master Mind
04-09-2010, 11:04 PM
Hawkeye I like your balls, I will protect you

:laugh2:

jackdawson
04-10-2010, 01:14 AM
Wooowww, no bashings yet? Must be a new record...

me too.

kArSoN RyDaH
04-10-2010, 01:25 AM
Wade has become an elite defender. In all reality, he has passed Kobe as the best SG in the NBA, and I know I will get blasted for it, but it's true. Wade is the 2nd best player in the NBA, and is a complete player now at both ends.

hahahaha im not even going to start on you. ill let everyone else rip you apart..

jackdawson
04-10-2010, 01:30 AM
^^^There it goes!!!! It was just a matter of time.

RaptorizedKevin
04-10-2010, 01:32 AM
definatly. the heatr have weak defenders like beasly doesnt make sense why they are ranked so high. its cuss of wade. my second choice is kobe though.

Iodine
04-10-2010, 01:32 AM
Well the real reason he wont is because he has nothing besides

LULZ ITZ KEWB BRI-ANT!

MacFitz92
04-10-2010, 01:34 AM
True, but this is the same guy who has the Mavs as the 15th best team behind some teams that are not even in the playoffs.

Bruno
04-10-2010, 01:46 AM
Since when does Kobe play defense? I must have missed it.

Anybody who's real with themselves and actually watches Laker games knows that Bryant rarley even trys to play good defense anymore. Kobe simply coasts on the defensive end the vast majority of the time and DWade plays better defense almost all the time, and has the stats to prove it. BUT, when Kobe is going up against someone he respects and knows is his equal, he can lock it down. His ability to lock it down when it matters doesn't make up for his apparent lack of effort for the other 70 games.

At this point every stat out there says Wade is the best SG in the league, but he won't be recognized as such while Bryant is the reigning finals MVP, that's just how it works.

To defend Bryant, I think everyones forgotten Bryant has been playing with a broken index finger on his shooting hand all season. It's amazing that he still shoots a decent % and carries this team the way he does. At the end of the day, Bryants ability to win games in the final mintues make him irreplaceable. The younger guys have the stats and athleticism, but he has mastered than intangible and his lore only continues to grow with every game winner. The Bryant bashers will probably cry themselves to sleep for a month straight if the Lakers win another title. They know they're right about him not being the best any more, but you can't argue against the rings and a finals MVP.

DCB/LAL
04-10-2010, 01:55 AM
OMG this is funny reading these post.

So here are a few things ive realized here on PSD....

1. Any artical PRO-Kobe is wrong according to all the posters.
2. Any artical ANTI-Kobe is right.
3. Any one who says someone is better than Kobe is right.
4. Anybody saying Kobe is better than anybody else is wrong.


People are so funny on here.....and most of them claim "to know basketball" :laugh: :laugh2: get outta here with that gibberish.




With that I said I agree Wade is the best 2 guard Defensively but only because Kobe seems to slack lately he doesn't play D like he use to. :hide:

kArSoN RyDaH
04-10-2010, 01:55 AM
Since when does Kobe play defense? I must have missed it.

Anybody who's real with themselves and actually watches Laker games knows that Bryant rarley even trys to play good defense anymore. Kobe simply coasts on the defensive end the vast majority of the time and DWade plays better defense almost all the time, and has the stats to prove it. BUT, when Kobe is going up against someone he respects and knows is his equal, he can lock it down. His ability to lock it down when it matters doesn't make up for his apparent lack of effort for the other 70 games.

At this point every stat out there says Wade is the best SG in the league, but he won't be recognized as such while Bryant is the reigning finals MVP, that's just how it works.

To defend Bryant, I think everyones forgotten Bryant has been playing with a broken index finger on his shooting hand all season. It's amazing that he still shoots a decent % and carries this team the way he does. At the end of the day, Bryants ability to win games in the final mintues make him irreplaceable. The younger guys have the stats and athleticism, but he has mastered than intangible and his lore only continues to grow with every game winner. The Bryant bashers will probably cry themselves to sleep for a month straight if the Lakers win another title. They know they're right about him not being the best any more, but you can't argue against the rings and a finals MVP.
this.


not to mention a poll of all nba players voted kobe as the toughest defender in the league not too long ago. he doesnt have to play top notch defense every night but when he does he will lock down whoever he chooses.

HoopsDrive
04-10-2010, 01:59 AM
hahahaha im not even going to start on you. ill let everyone else rip you apart..

LOL


^^^There it goes!!!! It was just a matter of time.

:up:

Here comes the RAINNN

Asce
04-10-2010, 02:07 AM
hahahaha im not even going to start on you. ill let everyone else rip you apart..

Let's stick to the facts, shall we? And not the so-called "intangibles."

Fact, (this season) Wade grabbed 6.50 boards per 48 minutes, Kobe grabs 6.70. Edge, Kobe.

Fact, (this season) Wade assisted (on plays) 8.62x a game (/48), Kobe, 6.20x (/48). Edge, Wade.

Fact, (this season) Wade averaged 2.52 steals per 48 minutes, Kobe, 2.00. Edge, Wade.

Fact, (this season) Wade averaged 1.5 blocks per 48 minutes, Kobe, .4. Edge, Wade.

Fact, (this season) Wade averaged 49.8% shooting from the field (adjusted), Kobe, 48.6%. Edge, Wade.

Fact, (this season) Wade averaged 75.8% shooting from the FT line, Kobe, 81.4%. Edge, Kobe.

Fact, (this season) Wade averaged 3.04 personal fouls per 48 minutes, Kobe, 3.22 (Wade also amassed less technicals). Edge, Wade.

Fact, (this season) Wade turned the ball over 4.4x per game (/48), Kobe, 4.00. Edge, Kobe.

Myth, Kobe is a better player than Dwyane Wade. :rolleyes:

Ssshbliblibl00p
04-10-2010, 02:11 AM
This bogey azz thread is joke lol.

Dwayne Wade is not that great a one on one defender P E R I O D.

He gets roasted on D constantly and only plays the passing lanes extremely well, gambles all the time, and has the ability to block shots very well.

From a fantasy standpoint, yea he's the best...but I've never seen him lock someone down on D the way Kobe has. EVER.

How bout some love for Andre Igoudala, I've seen him guard 4's before

jackdawson
04-10-2010, 02:12 AM
Kobe dont play defense unless its a good player. Last year he defended Wade great. He defended Lebron to two bad shooting games. But took the rest of the games off. He is too old to be running around the court full speed on both sides of the floor. Of course guys are starting to catch him. It should be no suprise. Its like me saying, "yeah, well Dwight is better than Shaq" Of course he is now. Shaq has been in the league a very long time. Dwight is still young. Kobe is in his 14th year. Everyone slows down by now. Not a big suprise. What is a suprise is that it took people this long to catch him.

No ****ing way "Wade is to Kobe" what "Dwight is to Shaq".

kArSoN RyDaH
04-10-2010, 02:12 AM
Let's stick to the facts, shall we? And not the so-called "intangibles."

Fact, (this season) Wade grabbed 6.50 boards per 48 minutes, Kobe grabs 6.70. Edge, Kobe.

Fact, (this season) Wade assisted (on plays) 8.62x a game (/48), Kobe, 6.20x (/48). Edge, Wade.

Fact, (this season) Wade averaged 2.52 steals per 48 minutes, Kobe, 2.00. Edge, Wade.

Fact, (this season) Wade averaged 1.5 blocks per 48 minutes, Kobe, .4. Edge, Wade.

Fact, (this season) Wade averaged 49.8% shooting from the field (adjusted), Kobe, 48.6%. Edge, Wade.

Fact, (this season) Wade averaged 75.8% shooting from the FT line, Kobe, 81.4%. Edge, Kobe.

Fact, (this season) Wade averaged 3.04 personal fouls per 48 minutes, Kobe, 3.22 (Wade also amassed less technicals). Edge, Wade.

Fact, (this season) Wade turned the ball over 4.4x per game (/48), Kobe, 4.00. Edge, Kobe.

Myth, Kobe is a better player than Dwyane Wade. :rolleyes:

oh yes because the thread says wade is better than kobe. your forgetting kobe is putting up numbers with a broken shooting index finger. he was playing with back spasms. he had a groin injury in the begginning of the season. and yet wade is barely ahead of him in those categories. :facepalm:

jackdawson
04-10-2010, 02:14 AM
This bogey azz thread is joke lol.

Dwayne Wade is not that great a one on one defender P E R I O D.

He gets roasted on D constantly and only plays the passing lanes extremely well, gambles all the time, and has the ability to block shots very well.

From a fantasy standpoint, yea he's the best...but I've never seen him lock someone down on D the way Kobe has. EVER.

How bout some love for Andre Igoudala, I've seen him guard 4's before

WTF!! Do you even watch basketball?

jackdawson
04-10-2010, 02:16 AM
oh yes because the thread says wade is better than kobe. your forgetting kobe is putting up numbers with a broken shooting index finger. he was playing with back spasms. he had a groin injury in the begginning of the season. and yet wade is barely ahead of him in those categories. :facepalm:

Bla bla bla...I have been hearing it since the beginning of the season. MVP thread is full of that bolded ****. Making excuse is the only thing that Kobe fans (not true laker fans tho) can do.

kArSoN RyDaH
04-10-2010, 02:21 AM
Bla bla bla...I have been hearing it since the beginning of the season. MVP thread is full of that bolded ****. Making excuse is the only thing that Kobe fans (not true laker fans tho) can do.

im not making excuses. what are you talking about? its a fact that he has been playing with those injuries and still able to keep his team top in the west for 3rd year in a row. quit hating.

Asce
04-10-2010, 02:22 AM
oh yes because the thread says wade is better than kobe. your forgetting kobe is putting up numbers with a broken shooting index finger. he was playing with back spasms. he had a groin injury in the begginning of the season. and yet wade is barely ahead of him in those categories. :facepalm:

Bruh, Wade's production has dipped significantly since last year. Wade is actually having a worse campaign than he did a year ago today. And yet (statistically at least) he's still better than Kobe.

This is obviously not Wade's best season, though it's clearly not his worst (that being his rookie year and the injury plagued campaign of 07-08).

Besides, Wade's also playing through back spasms. ;)

jackdawson
04-10-2010, 02:26 AM
im not making excuses. what are you talking about? its a fact that he has been playing with those injuries and still able to keep his team top in the west for 3rd year in a row. quit hating.

It's the team that keeps the lakers on top. They have by far the most talented and most balanced team in the league. You really want me to go to pre-gasol era? You guys are dbags who pray so the lakers lose when kobe is not playing. This Laker team minus Kobe will still have HCA in the west. What does wade have? You stop hating on Wade! He tops Kobe almost on everything except jump shooting and FT.

Iodine
04-10-2010, 02:27 AM
OMG this is funny reading these post.

So here are a few things ive realized here on PSD....

1. Any artical PRO-Kobe is wrong according to all the posters.
2. Any artical ANTI-Kobe is right.
3. Any one who says someone is better than Kobe is right.
4. Anybody saying Kobe is better than anybody else is wrong.


What PSD are you on?

JonnyBrav000
04-10-2010, 02:31 AM
Let's stick to the facts, shall we? And not the so-called "intangibles."

Fact, (this season) Wade grabbed 6.50 boards per 48 minutes, Kobe grabs 6.70. Edge, Kobe.

Fact, (this season) Wade assisted (on plays) 8.62x a game (/48), Kobe, 6.20x (/48). Edge, Wade.

Fact, (this season) Wade averaged 2.52 steals per 48 minutes, Kobe, 2.00. Edge, Wade.

Fact, (this season) Wade averaged 1.5 blocks per 48 minutes, Kobe, .4. Edge, Wade.

Fact, (this season) Wade averaged 49.8% shooting from the field (adjusted), Kobe, 48.6%. Edge, Wade.

Fact, (this season) Wade averaged 75.8% shooting from the FT line, Kobe, 81.4%. Edge, Kobe.

Fact, (this season) Wade averaged 3.04 personal fouls per 48 minutes, Kobe, 3.22 (Wade also amassed less technicals). Edge, Wade.

Fact, (this season) Wade turned the ball over 4.4x per game (/48), Kobe, 4.00. Edge, Kobe.

Myth, Kobe is a better player than Dwyane Wade. :rolleyes:


This is stupid, you can't go by stats to say one player is better than the other. If you had to go by stats than Monta Ellis would be a top 10 player, but everyone knows he isn't. Don't get me wrong Monta is good, but not a top 10, probably at the back end of 20 (if that).

Anyway, I'm not a Lakers lover, but I do believe Kobe is still the best player in basketball, because he is the best 4th quarter player in the league. I don't care what Lebron does, yes he is impressive, but the only thing that matters in the NBA is winning, and Kobe is the best player to help you win when it matters most. No one can guard him in the 4th and especially in the last few minutes of the game.

As far as Wade being a better defender than Kobe, he is. And it has always bothered me how some people want to put Kobe on a Michael Jordan level, when Jordan was a beast on offense and defense. Kobe is good on defense, he can lock guys down every so often, but he ain't no MJ. So it's great that this has come out and I hope Wade gets on the 1st team this year, but that doesn't mean Kobe isn't the best player in the league right now.

1 - Kobe
2 - Lebron
3 - Howard
4 - Wade
5 - Durant

I know the Wade fans are gonna be pissed he's not number 3, but you can't argue with what Dwight is doing in Orlando. They are possibly the team to beat in the east, because I am still not convinced the Cavs can really beat them in a 7 game series and Dwight is the number 1 reason for that.

kArSoN RyDaH
04-10-2010, 02:31 AM
Bruh, Wade's production has dipped significantly since last year. Wade is actually having a worse campaign than he did a year ago today. And yet (statistically at least) he's still better than Kobe.

This is obviously not Wade's best season, though it's clearly not his worst (that being his rookie year and the injury plagued campaign of 07-08).

Besides, Wade's also playing through back spasms. ;)

your forgetting that kobes stats have dropped since last year as well and hes playing with a broken finger. theres a reason why hes not as efficient as he has been in the past. alls im saying is kobe one on one against opponents he chooses to go full throttle he is one of the the best lock defenders in the nba.

kArSoN RyDaH
04-10-2010, 02:33 AM
What PSD are you on?

the same psd youre on. :facepalm::facepalm::facepalm: :rolleyes:

kArSoN RyDaH
04-10-2010, 02:35 AM
It's the team that keeps the lakers on top. They have by far the most talented and most balanced team in the league. You really want me to go to pre-gasol era? You guys are dbags who pray so the lakers lose when kobe is not playing. This Laker team minus Kobe will still have HCA in the west. What does wade have? You stop hating on Wade! He tops Kobe almost on everything except jump shooting and FT.

your not even listening to what im saying. what does pre gasol era have to do with anything? :facepalm: wow. laker fans pray when kobe is out that they lose? im not even going to bother with you bro you dont make any sense...

jackdawson
04-10-2010, 02:36 AM
This is stupid, you can't go by stats to say one player is better than the other. If you had to go by stats than Monta Ellis would be a top 10 player, but everyone knows he isn't. Don't get me wrong Monta is good, but not a top 10, probably at the back end of 20 (if that).

Anyway, I'm not a Lakers lover, but I do believe Kobe is still the best player in basketball, because he is the best 4th quarter player in the league. I don't care what Lebron does, yes he is impressive, but the only thing that matters in the NBA is winning, and Kobe is the best player to help you win when it matters most. No one can guard him in the 4th and especially in the last few minutes of the game.

As far as Wade being a better defender than Kobe, he is. And it has always bothered me how some people want to put Kobe on a Michael Jordan level, when Jordan was a beast on offense and defense. Kobe is good on defense, he can lock guys down every so often, but he ain't no MJ. So it's great that this has come out and I hope Wade gets on the 1st team this year, but that doesn't mean Kobe isn't the best player in the league right now.

1 - Kobe
2 - Lebron
3 - Howard
4 - Wade
5 - Durant

I know the Wade fans are gonna be pissed he's not number 3, but you can't argue with what Dwight is doing in Orlando. They are possibly the team to beat in the east, because I am still not convinced the Cavs can really beat them in a 7 game series and Dwight is the number 1 reason for that.

Wade fans don't get pissed for ignorant posts. And Lebron James is the greatest player on the planet followed by wade.

kArSoN RyDaH
04-10-2010, 02:38 AM
Wade fans don't get pissed for ignorant posts. And Lebron James is the greatest player on the planet followed by wade.

you really have trouble staying on topic. this thread is not about whos a better player its about defense. stay on topic.

Iodine
04-10-2010, 02:40 AM
the same psd youre on. :facepalm::facepalm::facepalm: :rolleyes:

Weird, cause the one Im on has people say Kobe is the best laker of all time, and is Jordan like.

Weird

JonnyBrav000
04-10-2010, 02:40 AM
It's the team that keeps the lakers on top. They have by far the most talented and most balanced team in the league. You really want me to go to pre-gasol era? You guys are dbags who pray so the lakers lose when kobe is not playing. This Laker team minus Kobe will still have HCA in the west. What does wade have? You stop hating on Wade! He tops Kobe almost on everything except jump shooting and FT.



What are the Heat doing now, that is so different than the Lakers pre-Gasol... Also take into consideration that the East sucks. So this point your making has no validity.

jackdawson
04-10-2010, 02:42 AM
your not even listening to what im saying. what does pre gasol era have to do with anything? :facepalm: wow. laker fans pray when kobe is out that they lose? im not even going to bother with you bro you dont make any sense...

WTF!! You mentioned lakers are top seed in WC bcz of Kobe. I said **** no. It's the team lakers, not only kobe. That's why I brought up pre-gasol era cuz Kobe's lakers were a non-factor in the league in the post-shaq daddy era and pre-gasol era. Jezz!!! Feeling like teaching in elementary!

JonnyBrav000
04-10-2010, 02:43 AM
Wade fans don't get pissed for ignorant posts. And Lebron James is the greatest player on the planet followed by wade.

Of course I'm ignorant, because it takes a genius to realize that you look at the stat sheet and make up your mind about who the best players are by seeing who fills up the box score with the most numbers. So hush your mouth peasant! LOL

Iodine
04-10-2010, 02:43 AM
you really have trouble staying on topic. this thread is not about whos a better player its about defense. stay on topic.

My god, your almost as good at this as FAB

Well not really, but good luck, maybe you might actually learn the following thing

How to not make a fail so hard that PL's boytoy (more like army of 15 year old scene boy sex slaves) wants to suck it


and really all we want is that one thing and one thing only

Robbw241
04-10-2010, 02:44 AM
And that my friends, is a zingg

jackdawson
04-10-2010, 02:45 AM
you really have trouble staying on topic. this thread is not about whos a better player its about defense. stay on topic.

NO. I am not. You need to learn how to follow posts. I just replied the previous post who did not stay on topic. Why didn't you make the same comment on that post? Cuz that says Kobe is the #1 player. Please, do me a favor, follow the posts and comment accordingly.

kArSoN RyDaH
04-10-2010, 02:46 AM
WTF!! You mentioned lakers are top seed in WC bcz of Kobe. I said **** no. It's the team lakers, not only kobe. That's why I brought up pre-gasol era cuz Kobe's lakers were a non-factor in the league in the post-shaq daddy era and pre-gasol era. Jezz!!! Feeling like teaching in elementary!

pre gasol era and before bynum got injured that season that the lakers got gasol the lakers were #3 in the west. and on pace to be #1 in the west the way kobe and bynum were tearing it up. kobe was playing with scrubs for the years after shaq left. idk what you expect him to do with a bunch of nobodies. just stop.

Asce
04-10-2010, 02:46 AM
This is stupid, you can't go by stats to say one player is better than the other. If you had to go by stats than Monta Ellis would be a top 10 player, but everyone knows he isn't. Don't get me wrong Monta is good, but not a top 10, probably at the back end of 20 (if that).

Actually, when you look past scoring, Ellis offers less than either Kobe or Wade.


I know the Wade fans are gonna be pissed he's number 3, but you can't argue what Dwight is doing in Orlando. They are possibly the team to beat in the east, because I am still not convinced the Cavs can really beat them in a 7 game series and Dwight is the number 1 reason for that.

In truth, I don't think Wade fans can feel slighted at Howard or LeBron being considered better players. As, when you look at their statistics, they're clearly more productive. But, Kobe isn't the best player.


your forgetting that kobes stats have dropped since last year as well and hes playing with a broken finger. theres a reason why hes not as efficient as he has been in the past...

No, I'm taking that into account. Kobe did indeed have a better year in 2008-09, but, Wade was still better then too.

Sadds The Gr8
04-10-2010, 02:46 AM
Very close between him and Kobe, but i give it to Wade.

JonnyBrav000
04-10-2010, 02:48 AM
you really have trouble staying on topic. this thread is not about whos a better player its about defense. stay on topic.


Don't listen to that idiot, he forgets the cavs and heat have to play crappy teams most of the time, while Lakers play in the West, where there is real competition. The East only has 2 real contenders. Meanwhile the West is stacked. Maybe 3 if your either a Celtics fan or Hawks fan, but we all know those teams don't have a shot this season.

kArSoN RyDaH
04-10-2010, 02:49 AM
No, I'm taking that into account. Kobe did indeed have a better year in 2008-09, but, Wade was still better then too.

wade was bettter but kobe got the ring. :rolleyes:

kArSoN RyDaH
04-10-2010, 02:49 AM
Don't listen to that idiot, he forgets the cavs and heat have to play crappy teams most of the time, while Lakers play in the West, where there is real competition. The East only has 2 real contenders. Meanwhile the West is stacked. Maybe 3 if your either a Celtics fan or Hawks fan, but we all know those teams don't have a shot this season.

yeaa im not even going to bother arguing with him bro. lol

kArSoN RyDaH
04-10-2010, 02:51 AM
NO. I am not. You need to learn how to follow posts. I just replied the previous post who did not stay on topic. Why didn't you make the same comment on that post? Cuz that says Kobe is the #1 player. Please, do me a favor, follow the posts and comment accordingly.

that guy was posting his top 5 defensive players in the nba and you reply with your lebron and wade crap. im done with you though. peace. :cool:

kArSoN RyDaH
04-10-2010, 02:52 AM
Pre Gasol era?? Is that a joke? Since when does getting 18.8 points, grabbing 9 rebounds, and 1.7 blocks qualify a player to have an "ERA" Then I guess we are in the Al Jefferson ERA, and the Antawn Jamison ERA, and the Zach Randolph ERA, and the Jermaine O'Neal ERA, and the Brook Lopez ERA, and the David West ERA and the David Lee ERA. All those guys are putting up what Gasol has done for his entire career. Give Kobe any of those guys and you would be saying, "well, if he didnt have David Lee". David Lee is having a better year than Gasol has ever had in his career. Does he have an ERA as well? Zach Randolph craps on Gasol statiscally. If he was on the Lakers, they would win 3 in a row.

Just give Kobe anyone with talent, and he produces rings. They can be one of the best ever like Shaq was. Or they can be maybe top 10 to 15 in the league like Gasol was. No he cant win with Kwame Brown and Brian Cook starting a center and forward. And Smush Parker starting a pg. NOBODY IN THE HISTORY OF THE LEAGUE COULD WIN WITH THAT TEAM!!! NO ONE

:clap:

jackdawson
04-10-2010, 02:52 AM
pre gasol era and before bynum got injured that season that the lakers got gasol the lakers were #3 in the west. and on pace to be #1 in the west the way kobe and bynum were tearing it up. kobe was playing with scrubs for the years after shaq left. idk what you expect him to do with a bunch of nobodies. just stop.

So is Wade. He has a bunch of scrubs around him. Heat minus wade is worse than the nets. I didn't start bringing up stupid team record here in this thread. You guys brought it up since there is nothing else to argue with wade. You need to stop it. I am not having fun debating you. You are contradicting yourself. Thank you for wasting my time.

Btw, follow how many people support Hollinger's judgement and then you will get it straight.

kArSoN RyDaH
04-10-2010, 02:53 AM
So is Wade. He has a bunch of scrubs around him. Heat minus wade is worse than the nets. I didn't start bringing up stupid team record here in this thread. You guys brought it up since there is nothing else to argue with wade. You need to stop it. I am not having fun debating you. You are contradicting yourself. Thank you for wasting my time.

yeaa and kobes numbers were superior to those of wades when they are both playing with scrubs. so now what? :rolleyes:

jackdawson
04-10-2010, 02:59 AM
that guy was posting his top 5 defensive players in the nba and you reply with your lebron and wade crap. im done with you though. peace. :cool:

You are a *******. Do you know how to read English properly??? Here I am quoting his post so you can see and read.


As far as Wade being a better defender than Kobe, he is. And it has always bothered me how some people want to put Kobe on a Michael Jordan level, when Jordan was a beast on offense and defense. Kobe is good on defense, he can lock guys down every so often, but he ain't no MJ. So it's great that this has come out and I hope Wade gets on the 1st team this year, but that doesn't mean Kobe isn't the best player in the league right now.

1 - Kobe
2 - Lebron
3 - Howard
4 - Wade
5 - Durant
I know the Wade fans are gonna be pissed he's not number 3, but you can't argue with what Dwight is doing in Orlando. They are possibly the team to beat in the east, because I am still not convinced the Cavs can really beat them in a 7 game series and Dwight is the number 1 reason for that.


Is this the list of top five defensive players in te league????:facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm: :facepalm::facepalm:

kArSoN RyDaH
04-10-2010, 03:02 AM
You are a *******. Do you know how to read English properly??? Here I am quoting his post so you can see and read.




Is this the list of top five defensive players in te league????:facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm: :facepalm::facepalm:

i stand corrected. i must have skimmed thru it too fast...:clap::clap:

jackdawson
04-10-2010, 03:02 AM
Don't listen to that idiot, he forgets the cavs and heat have to play crappy teams most of the time, while Lakers play in the West, where there is real competition. The East only has 2 real contenders. Meanwhile the West is stacked. Maybe 3 if your either a Celtics fan or Hawks fan, but we all know those teams don't have a shot this season.

There are a lot of ignorant posters on PSD. So I could care less what one of them thinks about wade and lebron.

jackdawson
04-10-2010, 03:08 AM
Pre Gasol era?? Is that a joke? Since when does getting 18.8 points, grabbing 9 rebounds, and 1.7 blocks qualify a player to have an "ERA" Then I guess we are in the Al Jefferson ERA, and the Antawn Jamison ERA, and the Zach Randolph ERA, and the Jermaine O'Neal ERA, and the Brook Lopez ERA, and the David West ERA and the David Lee ERA. All those guys are putting up what Gasol has done for his entire career. Give Kobe any of those guys and you would be saying, "well, if he didnt have David Lee". David Lee is having a better year than Gasol has ever had in his career. Does he have an ERA as well? Zach Randolph craps on Gasol statiscally. Should I think if he was on the Lakers, they would win 3 in a row?

Just give Kobe anyone with talent, and he produces rings. They can be one of the best ever like Shaq was. Or they can be maybe top 10 to 15 in the league like Gasol was. No he cant win with Kwame Brown and Brian Cook starting a center and forward. And Smush Parker starting a pg. NOBODY IN THE HISTORY OF THE LEAGUE COULD WIN WITH THAT TEAM!!! NO ONE

lol...You guys have similar problems of not being able to follow posts. Again I didn't bring up stupid *** team record is this thread. You guys did. This is about Wade is the best defensive 2 guard in the league. PERIOD.

Pre-gasol means Lakers were a defferent team after his arrival. Both pre-gasol and post-gasol era contained Kobe Bryant. Now it's a matter of your judgement power. I don't give a **** on Lakers. All I care about this thread and I support what Hollinger said. PERIOD.

jackdawson
04-10-2010, 03:11 AM
yeaa and kobes numbers were superior to those of wades when they are both playing with scrubs. so now what? :rolleyes:

Now?? Wade is not a ballhog. Wade never takes 40+ shots in a game. Barely takes 25+ shots. Wade doesn't lead the league in FGA per game. Wade has a better shooting % than Kobe, means he would avg better numbers if attempted same amount of shots. Now what?????

JonnyBrav000
04-10-2010, 03:12 AM
NO. I am not. You need to learn how to follow posts. I just replied the previous post who did not stay on topic. Why didn't you make the same comment on that post? Cuz that says Kobe is the #1 player. Please, do me a favor, follow the posts and comment accordingly.


Hey *******, I wasn't off topic, I replied to someone who was using stats, to compare who the better player is, Kobe or Wade, and they used offensive numbers along with defense, then decided to state my opinion and list the top 5 players, dumbass, you just decided to stick your nose in it and be rude, when your opinion at the end of the day isn't even a fact, just like mine or anyone elses, so instead of thinking your some knowledgeable person, who really knows less than you think you do, shut up and go to bed, your boyfriend is probably waiting for you

Also maybe you should take your own advice and follow post accordingly as well idiot

jackdawson
04-10-2010, 03:14 AM
i stand corrected. i must have skimmed thru it too fast...:clap::clap:

Fair enough. At least you admitted.

OBredskin
04-10-2010, 03:15 AM
When they play against each other, who scores more? That person plays better D.

kArSoN RyDaH
04-10-2010, 03:17 AM
Now?? Wade is not a ballhog. Wade never takes 40+ shots in a game. Barely takes 25+ shots. Wade doesn't lead the league in FGA per game. Wade has a better shooting % than Kobe, means he would avg better numbers if attempted same amount of shots. Now what?????

now your just coming up with excuses. lmaooo

kArSoN RyDaH
04-10-2010, 03:18 AM
wade plays better defense. thats why kobe hit that game winning buzzer beater against him right? hahahahahaha ahhhh i love it!!

jackdawson
04-10-2010, 03:19 AM
Hey *******, I wasn't off topic, I replied to someone who was using stats, to compare who the better player is, Kobe or Wade, and they used offensive numbers along with defense, then decided to state my opinion and list the top 5 players, dumbass, you just decided to stick your nose in it and be rude, when your opinion at the end of the day isn't even a fact, just like mine or anyone elses, so instead of thinking your some knowledgeable person, who really knows less than you think you do, shut up and go to bed, your boyfriend is probably waiting for you

You don't ****ing make any sense and are lieing. Oh, well this is Friday night, so alcohols must have an effect on you since you are forgetting your own post. I am done with you.

jackdawson
04-10-2010, 03:22 AM
now your just coming up with excuses. lmaooo

Excuses?????????????????????????????????? Show me which one is not a fact.


Now?? Wade is not a ballhog. Wade never takes 40+ shots in a game. Barely takes 25+ shots. Wade doesn't lead the league in FGA per game. Wade has a better shooting % than Kobe, means he would avg better numbers if attempted same amount of shots. Now what?????

WHICH ONE IS AN EXCUSE HERE????

JonnyBrav000
04-10-2010, 03:22 AM
You don't ****ing make any sense and are lieing. Oh, well this is Friday night, so alcohols must have an effect on you since you are forgetting your own post. I am done with you.

LOL no dumbass, go thru the post. You just have nothing better to say. It's there.

jackdawson
04-10-2010, 03:26 AM
wade plays better defense. thats why kobe hit that game winning buzzer beater against him right? hahahahahaha ahhhh i love it!!

You do know that Kobe said that was the luckiest shot of his life, right? If you dont you can check this out.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HsupRf4ebFw

And Wade didn't need a buzzer beater in miami to give it back, you know that too, right???

Asce
04-10-2010, 03:39 AM
wade was bettter but kobe got the ring. :rolleyes:

This has more to do with Kobe having a better cast of players around him. And less to do with individual talents. ;)

But nobody can blame Lakers' management for doing their job.


yeaa and kobes numbers were superior to those of wades when they are both playing with scrubs. so now what? :rolleyes:

Actually no. Let's take a look at the seasons both players played with "scrubs" and see what they did shall we (I won't even include Kobe's 04-05 campaign)?

In 05-06, Wade had some nice talent around him, in Shaq, Haslem, and big 'Zo. Naturally, they won the championship that year. After that, it was all downhill.

05-06

Wade: 2,892 0.301 wp48 = 18.2 wins produced
Bryant:3,277 0.209 wp48 = 14.3 wins produced

06-07

Wade: 1,931 0.293 wp48 = 11.8 wins produced
Bryant: 3,140 0.234 wp48 = 15.3 wins produced

07-08

Wade: 1,954 0.136 wp48 = 5.5 wins produced
Bryant: 3,192 0.247 wp48 = 16.4 wins produced

08-09

Wade: 3,048 0.350 wp48 = 22.3 wins produced
Bryant: 2,960 0.244 wp48 = 15.0 wins produced

You'll notice that 06-07 was the year Wade began playing with "scrubs" and 07-08 the year Kobe stopped playing with "scrubs."

Yet, you'll notice one intriguing detail. Other than in 07-08, per 48 minutes, Wade was generally more productive while out on the floor. Of course, Wade missed 1/3 of the season two years in a row. This naturally affected the number of total wins he managed to contribute for the Heat.

When you calculate them, Wade contributed 57.8 wins over 4 seasons, while playing over 2700 LESS minutes than Bryant. Kobe only contributed 61.

jackdawson
04-10-2010, 04:03 AM
Where in any of that second post does it have any thing to do with the thread topic? You refferenced the Lakers record pre Gasol, you also suggested the Lakers would have HCA in the west without Kobe. Seems like you have a writing comprehension problem since you dont even understand what you just typed.

And you seem to have problem with understanding of basic reading. I said lakers could have HCA without kobe now dumbass. You are horrible at comprehending.

Plus, I posted the top post later; The bottom one I posted at the beginning when one of the Kobe fans brought up team records.

You tried to make me look irrelevant by flipping those two posts. Nice try *******! But no success this time.

Master Mind
04-10-2010, 04:09 AM
I knew it...it was only a matter of time. I'm going back under my chair :hide:

Master Mind
04-10-2010, 04:10 AM
Wade's top 3, point blank...OK I'm gone :hide:

alencp3
04-10-2010, 04:17 AM
Wade has become an elite defender. In all reality, he has passed Kobe as the best SG in the NBA, and I know I will get blasted for it, but it's true. Wade is the 2nd best player in the NBA, and is a complete player now at both ends.

:clap:

Squad13
04-10-2010, 04:23 AM
Wade is better than Kobe overall? Please with his blocks and steals you can make a case for Wade but when you need to lock someone down, I'll take Kobe every day of the week. Kobe is clearly better than Wade overall, anyone that watches and doesn't just look at a stat sheet, or is blinded by hate knows this.

heathonater
04-10-2010, 06:04 AM
this is similar to someone overlooking the end of a deadly battle. all i got to say is that at least wade should be considered near the same level of kobe.

Hawkeye15
04-10-2010, 12:06 PM
hahahaha im not even going to start on you. ill let everyone else rip you apart..

go for it. THere is nothing to rip apart. Wade is better now. But, I am sure the same old rings argument will come, though with Wade having one, its almost a mute point.
Wade is better than Kobe this year. There is really no way around it. Sorry. I will accept any argument and debate it, as long as its rational.

IRUAM #21
04-10-2010, 12:09 PM
wade plays better defense. thats why kobe hit that game winning buzzer beater against him right? hahahahahaha ahhhh i love it!!

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Avenged
04-10-2010, 12:18 PM
wade plays better defense. thats why kobe hit that game winning buzzer beater against him right? hahahahahaha ahhhh i love it!!

Wade played great defensive just that Kobe played better offence.

Hawkeye15
04-10-2010, 12:19 PM
Wade is better than Kobe overall? Please with his blocks and steals you can make a case for Wade but when you need to lock someone down, I'll take Kobe every day of the week. Kobe is clearly better than Wade overall, anyone that watches and doesn't just look at a stat sheet, or is blinded by hate knows this.

no. You watch and look at the stat sheet. When two players of their caliber are playing, it is difficult to distinguish who is better. That is WHY you turn to the stat sheet. Both are dominant. But Wade is better statistically, while looking the same on the floor.
Laker fans, no need to take it as an insult that youre SG, who is nearly 32, and 1100 games into his career, has been passed by a 27 year old with half the games on his knees. Its called aging.

DQL
04-10-2010, 12:33 PM
guys there's no need to make this a heated argument. It's simple, Wade is a better help defender but Kobe is a better man defender. Overall they make the same impact when it comes to team defense which is the most important.

Then again, Wade is only 6'4. I bet if he was 2 inches taller he would block everyone's jump shots. He has insanely quick reaction, quick hands and leaping ability and great timing

Avenged
04-10-2010, 12:41 PM
Now?? Wade is not a ballhog. Wade never takes 40+ shots in a game. Barely takes 25+ shots. Wade doesn't lead the league in FGA per game. Wade has a better shooting % than Kobe, means he would avg better numbers if attempted same amount of shots. Now what?????

Well do you prefer Kobe Bryant taking shots or Smush Parker/Kwame Brown? I know your dislike for Kobe is off the charts but be reasonable. People seem to forget Smush Parker and Kwame Brown were starting for the Los Angeles Lakers a long with Luke Walton plus a bench full of players who are now either not getting playing time/limited role or not in the league. Sure there must be some exceptions I don't know.

Fact of the matter is Kobe took a lot of shots but got the Lakers into the playoffs twice with a 45-37 record in 2005-2006 and 42-40 in 2006-2007 finishing above 500 twice. That Laker team wasn't going to make any noise in the playoffs and were a potential team to get swept. The point is if Kobe had not taken all those shots, the Laker might have not even made the playoffs considering the squad they had.

As far as the argument on Wade playing better D than Kobe, maybe. Wade is a great defender and Kobe really doesn't defend everyone great all the time. Kobe is a great defender when he wants to shut down someone in the final minutes of the game. Wade is the better all around defender throughout 48 minutes, but i'll take Kobe in the final minutes.

tredigs
04-10-2010, 12:44 PM
Whoever said he's passed Kobe as the best SG in the league is absolutely right. IMO it's been that way for a couple years, and it's no longer that close. Wade's better in most facets of the game.

D Roses Bulls
04-10-2010, 01:12 PM
wade is the best sg in the NBA. its not to knock laker fans or kobe fans, its just the truth.

Iodine
04-10-2010, 01:15 PM
After re-reading this thread, I lawled then cried

also Tredigs has spoken

STFU

La11
04-10-2010, 01:21 PM
first is jose calderon right?

ChiSox219
04-10-2010, 01:26 PM
Whoever said he's passed Kobe as the best SG in the league is absolutely right. IMO it's been that way for a couple years, and it's no longer that close. Wade's better in most facets of the game.

I agree with this.

majmarcus
04-10-2010, 01:32 PM
This bogey azz thread is joke lol.

Dwayne Wade is not that great a one on one defender P E R I O D.

He gets roasted on D constantly and only plays the passing lanes extremely well, gambles all the time, and has the ability to block shots very well.

From a fantasy standpoint, yea he's the best...but I've never seen him lock someone down on D the way Kobe has. EVER.

How bout some love for Andre Igoudala, I've seen him guard 4's before

:nod:Dude, I'd shake ur hand if I ever see you. I could not have said it better. So called "Expert analyst" and sports writers as well as EASILY LEAD FANS are DYING to elevate someone/anyone above Kobe. Stat happy people love to go to the numbers. NO Kobe isn't as explosive as he once was. But this cat is wrapping up his 14th season and everyone, I mean EVERYONE INCLUDING LBJ, is playin catch up,LoL! Forget the fact that Kobe has lost some athletic ability which is only natural btw. But the fact that he can still do it when he wants/needs to reminds other players in the league that they still can't eff wit him! D-Wade is a bad mutha(shut yo mouf)....but No,sorry!

Lakersfan2483
04-10-2010, 01:33 PM
Wade is in the top 5, right behind Kobe and Lebron. He has not surpassed Bryant yet and Bryant proved that during last year's finals run. Wade himself said Bryant was still the best player in the NBA.

Lakersfan2483
04-10-2010, 01:36 PM
I agree with this.

Based on what? :eyebrow: Because he avgs. more assists and blocks more shots? Some of you guys are funny.

OnslaughtXX6
04-10-2010, 01:38 PM
The fact is Wade is a more efficent player than Kobe and always has been. Kobe is a volume shooter and doesn't necessarily shoot a high FG % while Wade has always shot around 50% for basically his whole career.

Kobe is a better jump shooter than Wade, I'll admit that, but in almost every other facet Wade is better.

Toenail Clipper
04-10-2010, 01:44 PM
Kobe is the best

Lakersfan2483
04-10-2010, 01:46 PM
In the 5 years that Kobe has been a number 1 option, he has 2 scoring titles, 1 MVP, been to 2 finals, 1 ring, 1 finals MVP, 4 all NBA first teams, 4 all defensive NBA first teams, possibly on his way to a 3rd finals and second title, all while averaging 29.5 pts, 5.6 reb, 5.3 assist on 46% shooting. Kobe has been consistenty great since 2000, which is remarkable considering he's lost a great deal of his athleticism, and had already played in several finals and playoff games prior to him becoming the no. 1 guy. Bottom line: Kobe is still at the top of his game.

ChiSox219
04-10-2010, 01:46 PM
Based on what? :eyebrow: Because he avgs. more assists and blocks more shots? Some of you guys are funny.

Based on a lot of facts but I think it's unproductive to argue this with a Lakers fan.

Lakersfan2483
04-10-2010, 01:52 PM
Based on a lot of facts but I think it's unproductive to argue this with a Lakers fan.

I don't base player rankings on stats alone, I base it on a number of things and Kobe is still at the top. He will start to lose his status in a few yrs. and that's because of age and number of games played. Fact is, he's a winner and always has been. Wade is a winner as well, but Bryant is the better player.

Avenged
04-10-2010, 01:54 PM
In the 5 years that Kobe has been a number 1 option, he has 2 scoring titles, 1 MVP, been to 2 finals, 1 ring, 1 finals MVP, 4 all NBA first teams, 4 all defensive NBA first teams, possibly on his way to a 3rd finals and second title, all while averaging 29.5 pts, 5.6 reb, 5.3 assist on 46% shooting. Kobe has been consistenty great since 2000, which is remarkable considering he's lost a great deal of his athleticism, and had already played in several finals and playoff games prior to him becoming the no. 1 guy. Bottom line: Kobe is still at the top of his game.

Right now Kobe is clearly not at the top of his game. Injuries to him this season has really slowed him down. I think if healthy, Kobe is still one of the best in the league but don't try to argue that around here, it's unreasonable.

Lakersfan2483
04-10-2010, 02:01 PM
Right now Kobe is clearly not at the top of his game. Injuries to him this season has really slowed him down. I think if healthy, Kobe is still one of the best in the league but don't try to argue that around here, it's unreasonable.

I remember Wade going through something similar to Kobe a few yrs. back and people saying he fell off, but that was far from the truth as Wade was dealing with a pleuthra of injuries. Fact is, prior to Kobe getting injured and playing through multiple injuries, he was avg. 32ppg on 49pct. shooting and that is a FACT, look it up. The Lakers also had the top record without Gasol, and Kobe's efficiency rating was off the charts. He was operating in the post, but he was injured and his numbers have fallen since then.

The only reason Kobe's game has suffered is due to multiple injuries over the past few months because the guy was killin prior to those injuries. He has hit several game winners this year, was the team's primary post guy when Gasol was hurt and put up GREAT numbers as the main post option.

Avenged
04-10-2010, 02:07 PM
I remember Wade going through something similar to Kobe a few yrs. back and people saying he fell off, but that was far from the truth. Fact is, prior to Kobe getting injured and playing through multiple injuries, he was avg. 32ppg on 49pct. shooting and that is a FACT, look it up. He was operating in the post, but he was injured and his numbers have fallen since then.

Thing is, most players when injured decide not to play any games even if it's a minor injury and that's the smart thing to do in most cases, if not all. Kobe plays regardless what kind of injury he has unless he can't walk. I remember him saying that players don't play through injuries because it would affect their stats and he's right. Kobe is at the point of his career when that's not important anymore, he plays through injuries because he knows his team needs him. I'd take a fully healthy Kobe over Wade.

ChiSox219
04-10-2010, 02:18 PM
I don't base player rankings on stats alone, I base it on a number of things and Kobe is still at the top. He will start to lose his status in a few yrs. and that's because of age and number of games played. Fact is, he's a winner and always has been. Wade is a winner as well, but Bryant is the better player.

That's fine, and neither does Hollinger and nor do I. Watch the game and use stats to back up what you see. Everyone thinks Kobe is a great clutch shooter and up until this year, he had been horrible, but had so many opportunities that fans were only remembering the makes.


In the 5 years that Kobe has been a number 1 option, he has 2 scoring titles, 1 MVP, been to 2 finals, 1 ring, 1 finals MVP, 4 all NBA first teams, 4 all defensive NBA first teams, possibly on his way to a 3rd finals and second title, all while averaging 29.5 pts, 5.6 reb, 5.3 assist on 46% shooting. Kobe has been consistenty great since 2000, which is remarkable considering he's lost a great deal of his athleticism, and had already played in several finals and playoff games prior to him becoming the no. 1 guy. Bottom line: Kobe is still at the top of his game.

Wade's last five years:

27.4 PPG, 7.0 APG, 4.9 RPG, 1.97 SPG, 1.0 BPG, .484 FG%, .569 TS%

Wade has had the better RAPM the last two years and he has the best two year APM in the entire league. Wade is doing this all with very little talent around him, Artest, Odom, Gasol, and Bynum would all be the second best player on the Heat.

He also has as many titles as Kobe during that stretch

sp1derm00
04-10-2010, 03:03 PM
Wade's last five years:

27.4 PPG, 7.0 APG, 4.9 RPG, 1.97 SPG, 1.0 BPG, .484 FG%, .569 TS%

Wade has had the better RAPM the last two years and he has the best two year APM in the entire league. Wade is doing this all with very little talent around him, Artest, Odom, Gasol, and Bynum would all be the second best player on the Heat.

He also has as many titles as Kobe during that stretch

Pretty funny and unfair to bring in teammates across that stretch seeing as Kobe was playing with Kwame, Cook, Luke, Radmanovic, and Smush all playing within the starting lineup during the stretch. Smush went to the Heat and didn't even really play until the Heat were just giving away games due to Wade's injuries.

Don't bring up who has carried the worse team into the playoffs, or played with the worse team... Kobe has done both.

ChiSox219
04-10-2010, 03:08 PM
Pretty funny and unfair to bring in teammates across that stretch seeing as Kobe was playing with Kwame, Cook, Luke, Radmanovic, and Smush all playing within the starting lineup during the stretch. Smush went to the Heat and didn't even really play until the Heat were just giving away games due to Wade's injuries.

Don't bring up who has carried the worse team into the playoffs, or played with the worse team... Kobe has done both.

My comment on teammates was clearly addressing the last two years, the period of time during which Wade has been better than Kobe.

DCB/LAL
04-10-2010, 04:06 PM
Weird, cause the one Im on has people say Kobe is the best laker of all time, and is Jordan like.

Weird

Yeah WEIRD...... you dont have to be a genius to realize the only people who support Kobe are mostly only Laker fans if you have trouble realizing that then im sorry I dont work miracles and I can't make blind people see.


Oh and im on the same PSD(Prosportsdaily) your on......in case you didn't realize there can only be one........genius. :D

ChiSox219
04-10-2010, 04:50 PM
No it wasn't you were talking about the last 5 years and managed to throw in how has a championship in those 5 years and he has nobody although he won a championship with Shaq. :facepalm:


Stop being an idiot an looking at only the things that benefit your agrument....people seem to do that alot on here.


Wade has had the better RAPM the last two years and he has the best two year APM in the entire league. Wade is doing this all with very little talent around him, Artest, Odom, Gasol, and Bynum would all be the second best player on the Heat.

Nice try though.

Only Kobe fans will argue he is better than Wade and they won't have objective evidence to back up their claims.

Avenged
04-10-2010, 05:01 PM
Nice try though.

Only Kobe fans will argue he is better than Wade and they won't have objective evidence to back up their claims.

Hmm while I can admit Lebron is better than Kobe, Im not quite ready to say Wade is. Wade is never really in discussion when debating who's the best in the NBA, it's usually Kobe and Lebron. As far as this thread goes, I'd say Wade's D is better than Kobe's throughout a 48 minute game. I feel Kobe can lock down an opponent better than Wade can in the closing minutes of a game though.

Lakersfan2483
04-10-2010, 06:28 PM
Nice try though.

Only Kobe fans will argue he is better than Wade and they won't have objective evidence to back up their claims.

I have plenty of objective evidence to back my claims and know for a fact that Bryant is the better player and has been since Wade has entered the NBA.

Avenged
04-10-2010, 06:28 PM
Says the guy who reverts to childish name calling when he knows he is wrong. :laugh2: I know exactly what type of upbringing I am dealing with here. Low life parents. Dad probably cusses mom out in arguements. Maybe even hits her. Son (jackdawson) views this and thinks this is the way people try to get their point across. Child reverts to this tactic once he has been cornered or out smarted. Probably masterbates to the sound of of his mom being beaten by his father, because it soothes him and brings back memories of his childhood. Im done with you. Enjoy your pathetic existence.

:pity:

ChiSox219
04-10-2010, 07:06 PM
I have plenty of objective evidence to back my claims and know for a fact that Bryant is the better player and has been since Wade has entered the NBA.

Please share.

Also, I am talking about the last two years during which Wade has been better.

HuRRiCaNeS324
04-10-2010, 07:10 PM
Wade has become an elite defender. In all reality, he has passed Kobe as the best SG in the NBA, and I know I will get blasted for it, but it's true. Wade is the 2nd best player in the NBA, and is a complete player now at both ends.

:clap::clap::clap:

Kobe is still awesome, but if you forget what he's done in the past and look at the present, Wade has surpassed. He is the 2nd best player in the NBA and i shouldn't get blasted for it, but i will because of all the Kobe lovers.

Asce
04-10-2010, 07:17 PM
My comment on teammates was clearly addressing the last two years, the period of time during which Wade has been better than Kobe.

Wade's been better than Kobe for longer than that, I pointed this out (http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showthread.php?p=12866910#post12866910) earlier in the discussion.

And technically, Wade has been playing with "scrubs" for a lot longer than the last two years. This actually dates back to the 06-07 season, when 'Zo's production began to dip significantly. Shaq himself was erratic, his foul proneness forcing him out of games early (furthermore, between that season and the next, Shaq only managed to appear in 73 Heat games).

It's interesting how Lakers fans like to point out Smush Parker (when he wasn't exactly unproductive). In any case, Lamar Odom had been there since the tumultuous 04-05 campaign.

And not since Wade's championship season, has he played with anyone quite that productive (those players being Shaq and Alonzo Mourning―though as I pointed out, their production would begin to wane the following season).

Avenged
04-10-2010, 07:27 PM
Wade's been better than Kobe for longer than that, I pointed this out (http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showthread.php?p=12866910#post12866910) earlier in the discussion.

And technically, Wade has been playing with "scrubs" for a lot longer than the last two years. This actually dates back to the 06-07 season, when 'Zo's production began to dip significantly. Shaq himself was erratic, his foul proneness forcing him out of games early (furthermore, between that season and the next, Shaq only managed to appear in 73 Heat games).

It's interesting how Lakers fans like to point out Smush Parker (when he wasn't exactly unproductive). In any case, Lamar Odom had been there since the tumultuous 04-05 campaign.

And not since Wade's championship season, has he played with anyone quite that productive (those players being Shaq and Alonzo Mourning―though as I pointed out, their production would begin to wane the following season).

Please tell me your joking about Smush Parker? Yeah sure he had "decent" games here and there, and a critical steal against the Suns if I remember correctly, but that doesn't mean he's anything but productive. Im one of the biggest Lamar Odom fans out there, but he was as inconsistent as it gets and was going through injuries. The Lamar Odom of now flourishes because he's not the second option and plays his roll well.

ChiSox219
04-10-2010, 07:35 PM
Regardless of teammates, Wade has been the better player the past two seasons.

Avenged
04-10-2010, 07:40 PM
Regardless of teammates, Wade has been the better player the past two seasons.

That's cool man, that's your opinion. I really don't care who's the better player as long as my teams at the top. Some Laker fans just dont get it but oh well.

Asce
04-10-2010, 07:54 PM
Please tell me your joking about Smush Parker? Yeah sure he had "decent" games here and there, and a critical steal against the Suns if I remember correctly, but that doesn't mean he's anything but productive. Im one of the biggest Lamar Odom fans out there, but he was as inconsistent as it gets and was going through injuries. The Lamar Odom of now flourishes because he's not the second option and plays his roll well.

Nobody said he (Smush) was anything but productive. A lot of the blame is unjustly put on him though, when he wasn't exactly the weakest link on that team.

Now, as far as Odom being inconsistent, he was the second biggest producer of wins (behind Kobe) 4 seasons in a row, between 04-05 to 07-08. Here's a look at what Bryant and Odom did between those seasons:

05-06

Kobe: 3,277 MP 0.209 wp48 = 14.3 wins produced
Odom: 3,221 MP 0.210 wp48 = 14.1 wins produced

06-07

Kobe: 3,140 MP 0.229 wp48 = 15.3 wins produced
Odom: 2,202 MP 0.187 wp48 = 11.4 wins produced

07-08

Kobe: 3,192 MP 0.247 wp48 = 16.4 wins produced
Odom: 2,921 MP 0.253 wp48 = 15.4 wins produced

Avenged
04-10-2010, 08:06 PM
Nobody said he (Smush) was anything but productive. A lot of the blame is unjustly put on him though, when he wasn't exactly the weakest link on that team.

Now, as far as Odom being inconsistent, he was the second biggest producer of wins (behind Kobe) 4 seasons in a row, between 04-05 to 07-08. Here's a look at what Bryant and Odom did between that time period:

05-06

Kobe: 3,277 MP 0.209 wp48 = 14.3 wins produced
Odom: 3,221 MP 0.210 wp48 = 14.1 wins produced

06-07

Kobe: 3,140 MP 0.229 wp48 = 15.3 wins produced
Odom: 2,202 MP 0.187 wp48 = 11.4 wins produced

07-08

Kobe: 3,192 MP 0.247 wp48 = 16.4 wins produced
Odom: 2,921 MP 0.253 wp48 = 15.4 wins produced

You said Smush wasn't exactly unproductive, unless i misunderstood. :shrug:
Not everything is put on Smush, just that when comparing the old Laker team, that team wasn't a good one. The majority of the time the starting line up was Kobe, Cook, Mihm, Odom, and Parker. Kwame Brown also got his share of starts.

That stat doesn't tell the whole story. Odom was expected to break out and become an all star but never did. He was the second best player on that team, but that's not saying much considering the players on their. Lamar was inconsistent in the regard that he had a lot of expectations coming in and didn't deliver.

ChiSox219
04-10-2010, 08:09 PM
You said Smush wasn't exactly unproductive, unless i misunderstood. :shrug:
Not everything is put on Smush, just that when comparing the old Laker team, that team wasn't a good one. The majority of the time the starting line up was Kobe, Cook, Mihm, Odom, and Parker. Kwame Brown also got his share of starts.

That stat doesn't tell the whole story. Odom was expected to break out and become an all star but never did. He was the second best player on that team, but that's not saying much considering the players on their. Lamar was inconsistent in the regard that he had a lot of expectations coming in and didn't deliver.

Odom isn't an all-star because he isn't flashy and doesn't score. But he is one of the better players in the league and I'd take him over an "all-star" like David Lee.

PatsSoxKnicks
04-10-2010, 08:10 PM
Wade has become an elite defender. In all reality, he has passed Kobe as the best SG in the NBA, and I know I will get blasted for it, but it's true. Wade is the 2nd best player in the NBA, and is a complete player now at both ends.

:clap: He does so many more things than Kobe but because Kobe plays on the Lakers and has more rings, he's considered better. Wade's a much better passer, better rebounder, better defender. Kobe is only the better scorer and they're pretty close in that regards.

Wade's PER ratings have blown Kobe's out of the water the last couple years. It's not Wade's fault that Kobe's teams have much more talent.

DCB/LAL
04-10-2010, 08:13 PM
Regardless of teammates, Wade has been the better player the past two seasons.

Kobe when in the same situation as Wade was a better player than Wade and if you disagree you are mistaken due to the simple fact that Kobe was the OVERWHELMING anwer to best player in the NBA.So with that said when both players were in similar situations Kobe was the better player.

I dont even see how you could argue that.

Avenged
04-10-2010, 08:15 PM
Odom isn't an all-star because he isn't flashy and doesn't score. But he is one of the better players in the league and I'd take him over an "all-star" like David Lee.

When I say all star, I don't mean borderline all star. He was expected to be Kobe's "Pippen". I agree, he's real good, my favorite Laker player, but lets not get carried away. Lamar Odom is an all around good player but doesn't have all star numbers. And really right now, the Lakers don't need him to be. He plays great ball and plays his role well. But in the 04-05 and 06-07 season he was expected to come to L.A and be great.

PatsSoxKnicks
04-10-2010, 08:25 PM
Kobe when in the same situation as Wade was a better player than Wade and if you disagree you are mistaken due to the simple fact that Kobe was the OVERWHELMING anwer to best player in the NBA.So with that said when both players were in similar situations Kobe was the better player.

I dont even see how you could argue that.

I like how your post has all opinions and no facts. Why don't you provide some numbers? The past 2 years, Wade has been the better player (higher PER and better defender), the year before, Wade had an injury plagued year (07-08 season), and the year before (06-07) that, Wade was better than Kobe too. Higher PER in each season.

The talent of his teammates is out of Wade's control and out of Kobe's control, let's look at the factors that each player CAN control.

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/statistics?&action=upsell&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fnba %2fhollinger%2fstatistics

In all most every stat, Wade is better. He's been the better defender too as Hollinger points out.

PER

This season:
Wade 28.04
Kobe 22.18

Last season:
Wade: 30.46
Kobe: 24.46

07-08:
Wade: 21.71
Kobe: 24.09

06-07:
Wade: 29.04
Kobe: 26.13

Kobe is only better in the 07-08 season and we all know Wade was injured for most of that season. He played 51 games that year. Before (06-07) this , Kobe was the better player, no doubt about that.

Kobe's career PER is 23.5. Wade's is 25.6.

Kobe's been the better scorer but Wade does so many other things great which is what makes him the better player.

Asce
04-10-2010, 08:25 PM
You said Smush wasn't exactly unproductive, unless i misunderstood. :shrug:

He's wasn't (unproductive). And considering the position he played, Smush Parker was actually slightly above average.


That stat doesn't tell the whole story. Odom was expected to break out and become an all star but never did. He was the second best player on that team, but that's not saying much considering the players on their. Lamar was inconsistent in the regard that he had a lot of expectations coming in and didn't deliver.

You're not getting it, Odom wasn't the second biggest producer of wins just because the Lakers (at the time) were bad. No, Odom was the second biggest producer of wins, because he is that good. And the Lakers were hardly bad in 07-08, when Odom was still their second most productive player.

Again, being an "All-Star" has nothing to do with productivity. Anyone remember Iverson being voted in a starter? ;)

ChiSox219
04-10-2010, 08:26 PM
When I say all star, I don't mean borderline all star. He was expected to be Kobe's "Pippen". I agree, he's real good, my favorite Laker player, but lets not get carried away. Lamar Odom is an all around good player but doesn't have all star numbers. And really right now, the Lakers don't need him to be. He plays great ball and plays his role well. But in the 04-05 and 06-07 season he was expected to come to L.A and be great.

Odom is dirty.

TheWatcher34
04-10-2010, 08:27 PM
all i have to say about the way this thread has developed: AS THE KB's DICK SUCKING CONTINUES...

DCB/LAL
04-10-2010, 08:28 PM
I like how your post has all opinions and no facts. Why don't you provide some numbers? The past 2 years, Wade has been the better player (higher PER and better defender), the year before, Wade had an injury plagued year (07-08 season), and the year before (06-07) that, Wade was better than Kobe too. Higher PER in each season.

The talent of his teammates is out of Wade's control and out of Kobe's control, let's look at the factors that each player CAN control.

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/statistics?&action=upsell&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fnba %2fhollinger%2fstatistics

In all most every stat, Wade is better. He's been the better defender too as Hollinger points out.

Fact is you really cant compare the two right now two different scenerios but what you can compare is when they were both in the same situation why not do that ehh?

And fact is when they were both in the same scenerio Kobe was the better player thats not opinion thats fact for your a*s.

DCB/LAL
04-10-2010, 08:29 PM
Odom is dirty.

Odom is great your right the only problem with Odom is he is TOO INCONSISTANT if he brought his A-game every game yeah he probably could be an All-star.........but he doesn't.

ChiSox219
04-10-2010, 08:35 PM
Odom is great your right the only problem with Odom is he is TOO INCONSISTANT if he brought his A-game every game yeah he probably could be an All-star.........but he doesn't.

Inconsistent at what?

PatsSoxKnicks
04-10-2010, 08:38 PM
Fact is you really cant compare the two right now two different scenerios but what you can compare is when they were both in the same situation why not do that ehh?

And fact is when they were both in the same scenerio Kobe was the better player thats not opinion thats fact for your a*s.

lol, Kobe's in a BETTER situation right now and he STILL can't compare with Wade's stats. His PER is lower, despite having more talent around him. Wade's got a higher AST percentage despite playing with teammates that couldn't hold the Lakers players jock straps. Again, Kobe's always been a great scorer but just because you can chuck up shot after shot and make them, it doesn't make you the better player. You seem to be missing that being the better player is different from being the better scorer.

DCB/LAL
04-10-2010, 08:41 PM
Inconsistent at what?

EDIT:Inconsistent in scoring he's always been a good Rebounder.

He'll give you 26 and 10 one night then come back then next game and give you 9 and 10 then next followed by 5 and 13 night after that.

He's a great player just lacks being consistent where in David Lee you can almost guarantee about 20 and 10 on night to night basis.

Avenged
04-10-2010, 08:41 PM
He's wasn't (unproductive). And considering the position he played, Smush Parker was actually slightly above average.



You're not getting it, Odom wasn't the second biggest producer of wins just because the Lakers (at the time) were bad. No, Odom was the second biggest producer of wins, because he is that good. And the Lakers were hardly bad in 07-08, when Odom was still their second most productive player.

Again, being an "All-Star" has nothing to do with productivity. Anyone remember Iverson being voted in a starter? ;)

He was the second biggest producer of wins because that team sucked. He was clearly better than anybody else on that roster not including Kobe. It's not like that team got 50+ wins or anything. The games Odom showed up, L.A won. He was inconsistent and that's why the Lakers weren't really that good. I remember against the Suns against the playoffs, analysts were saying Odom had to show up in order for Kobe to have a shot at beating them. Him and Kwame.

kjdills13
04-10-2010, 08:41 PM
Let's stick to the facts, shall we? And not the so-called "intangibles."

Fact, (this season) Wade grabbed 6.50 boards per 48 minutes, Kobe grabs 6.70. Edge, Kobe.

Fact, (this season) Wade assisted (on plays) 8.62x a game (/48), Kobe, 6.20x (/48). Edge, Wade.

Fact, (this season) Wade averaged 2.52 steals per 48 minutes, Kobe, 2.00. Edge, Wade.

Fact, (this season) Wade averaged 1.5 blocks per 48 minutes, Kobe, .4. Edge, Wade.

Fact, (this season) Wade averaged 49.8% shooting from the field (adjusted), Kobe, 48.6%. Edge, Wade.

Fact, (this season) Wade averaged 75.8% shooting from the FT line, Kobe, 81.4%. Edge, Kobe.

Fact, (this season) Wade averaged 3.04 personal fouls per 48 minutes, Kobe, 3.22 (Wade also amassed less technicals). Edge, Wade.

Fact, (this season) Wade turned the ball over 4.4x per game (/48), Kobe, 4.00. Edge, Kobe.

Myth, Kobe is a better player than Dwyane Wade. :rolleyes:

I am a die hard suns fan and i hate to say this but i have to!

Kobe is better than Wade.

when you compare stats like this it is very biased to kobe because he plays on a team in wich he doesnt need to be involved in every play.

examples

assist- many times in a game they give the ball to Gasol and bynum and let them work downlow which doesnt allow kobe to get assist, compared to wade whos job is to penitrate and then dish to his big men. If the lakers offense was based of kobe penetraiting he could match wade's assist

steals- yes wade gets the advantage

blocks- yes wade gets the advantage

defense- i want an opponents ppg stat because i believe kobe would beat wade in that category

shooting from the field- wade shoots from inside the paint bc he is told to penetrate, kobe is a jump shooter so wade should have a better shooting percentage, different offenses

FT percentage- yes kobe gets the advantage

personal fouls- that stat is just stupid lol because fouls arent a bad thing lol

Turnovers- wade has the ball in his hands more than kobe so its hard to say advantage kobe because wade has more oppertunity for turnovers than kobe does, so this is a wash

All in all if i had to pick a player to have on my team this year to win a title i choose kobe every day of the weak!!!! yes in 2 years wade will be better do to kobe's old age but right now kobe is better than wade on O and on D.

Wade can steal the ball and block shots like a smaller josh smith, but one on one he is not ELITE!

I had to give Kobe some love even tho i hate his guts! he kills my suns and it makes me hate him even more but he is still the second best player in the NBA

And in the playoffs i would choose him over any player in the NBA since jordan

Avenged
04-10-2010, 08:43 PM
Odom is great your right the only problem with Odom is he is TOO INCONSISTANT if he brought his A-game every game yeah he probably could be an All-star.........but he doesn't.

I said he was inconsistent. Because he is. Well not so much lately, but he was. These guys don't see the Lakers regularly to know that Odom doesn't play consistent ball, but when he does the Lakers are nearly unstoppable.

PatsSoxKnicks
04-10-2010, 08:44 PM
all i have to say about the way this thread has developed: AS THE KB's DICK SUCKING CONTINUES...

If you're a Laker fan, your thought process: Kobe is the best player to ever play the game, Kobe is GOD reincarnated, I jack off to Kobe every night because he is so good, no other player in the NBA exists besides Kobe.

At least, this is the thought process of most Laker fans, there are some who actually understand that there are other players besides Kobe Bryant.

(I will admit this is also part of my opinion from the Laker fans I've met in real life and not on this board)

DCB/LAL
04-10-2010, 08:46 PM
I said he was inconsistent. Because he is. Well not so much lately, but he was. These guys don't see the Lakers regularly to know that Odom doesn't play consistent ball, but when he does the Lakers are nearly unstoppable.

Yeah if Odom were to play consistent and bring he's A game almost every night LA would probably be the 1 seed they are almost unbeatable when he brings his best.

kjdills13
04-10-2010, 08:46 PM
It's the team that keeps the lakers on top. They have by far the most talented and most balanced team in the league. You really want me to go to pre-gasol era? You guys are dbags who pray so the lakers lose when kobe is not playing. This Laker team minus Kobe will still have HCA in the west. What does wade have? You stop hating on Wade! He tops Kobe almost on everything except jump shooting and FT.

no offense man but isnt the position called shooting guard so isnt jump shooting kinda important to that position. and kobe is a better one on one defender. and a smarter player who is a finisher.

PatsSoxKnicks
04-10-2010, 08:47 PM
Wade's assist percentage: 19.7
Kobe's: 15.3

Keyword being PERCENTAGE, basically it is the % of player's possessions that ends in an assist. So Kobe may have the ball less but this is nullified by the fact that it is a %.

And Wade's got less talent around him, yet he still manages to have a higher assist % than Kobe.

DCB/LAL
04-10-2010, 08:51 PM
Wade's assist percentage: 19.7
Kobe's: 15.3

Keyword being PERCENTAGE, basically it is the % of player's possessions that ends in an assist. So Kobe may have the ball less but this is nullified by the fact that it is a %.

You realize he has GREAT passing Big Men who like passing the ball. There are a few times in a game where you see Kobe pass it to Gasol in the post and Gasol makes an extra pass to an Open Odom/Artest whom ever even Odom has done that its sometimes harder to get an assist when you have other teammates making the extra pass if you watch Lakers games you'd know what im talking about.


Does that make sense to you? Cause it makes sense in my head but im trying to explain and dont know if that makes sense to you?

Avenged
04-10-2010, 08:54 PM
If you're a Laker fan, your thought process: Kobe is the best player to ever play the game, Kobe is GOD reincarnated, I jack off to Kobe every night because he is so good, no other player in the NBA exists besides Kobe.

At least, this is the thought process of most Laker fans, there are some who actually understand that there are other players besides Kobe Bryant.

(I will admit this is also part of my opinion from the Laker fans I've met in real life and not on this board)

I think it's just the fact that when naming who is better, everyone always assumes Laker fans will have a say in it because of 1 or 2 bonehead Laker fans. If you don't believe me, check out the beginning of the thread. :p

ChiSox219
04-10-2010, 08:55 PM
Just to get back on topic for a minute, Wade is not the best defensive 2 guard, Thabo Sefolosha is.

D Roses Bulls
04-10-2010, 09:03 PM
Just to get back on topic for a minute, Wade is not the best defensive 2 guard, Thabo Sefolosha is.

are you mad? :confused:

ChiSox219
04-10-2010, 09:06 PM
are you mad? :confused:

No...

As a Bulls fan, you should remember when Rose kept torching Westbrook (considered to be a solid/good defender) the Thunder put Thabo on Rose and he did a great job containing DR1

D Roses Bulls
04-10-2010, 10:55 PM
No...

As a Bulls fan, you should remember when Rose kept torching Westbrook (considered to be a solid/good defender) the Thunder put Thabo on Rose and he did a great job containing DR1

ummm what i do remember is rose actually taring thabo up with 26,7,4 and scored 15 in the fourth quarter on thabo.

Hawkeye15
04-10-2010, 11:20 PM
I am actually surprised I was not bashed in the slightest. Goes to show you that even Laker fans realize that individually, Kobe has been passed. Either that, or nobody wants to bother arguing a dead horse, which they will end up doing.
Kobe is unreal. But he has a team around him now that is also unreal. Wade does not enjoy this, so using success and wins is pointless. Wade is better in every single statistical category basically, and defensively as well. He also has a ring, so the rings argument is mute. Injuries are not important. Anyone who plays 82 games and playoffs for a period of time is beat up. LeBron and Wade are the two best individual players in the NBA. I will give Kobe a nod over D12 due to success, and overall in game dominance, but even D12 is right on top of him. And Paul just needs healthy.
Its aging. There is nothing that can be done about it. It happened to KG, its going to be happening to Duncan soon, and its slowly catching Kobe. Its not a criticism

jackdawson
04-10-2010, 11:27 PM
I am actually surprised I was not bashed in the slightest. Goes to show you that even Laker fans realize that individually, Kobe has been passed. Either that, or nobody wants to bother arguing a dead horse, which they will end up doing.
Kobe is unreal. But he has a team around him now that is also unreal. Wade does not enjoy this, so using success and wins is pointless. Wade is better in every single statistical category basically, and defensively as well. He also has a ring, so the rings argument is mute. Injuries are not important. Anyone who plays 82 games and playoffs for a period of time is beat up. LeBron and Wade are the two best individual players in the NBA. I will give Kobe a nod over D12 due to success, and overall in game dominance, but even D12 is right on top of him. And Paul just needs healthy.
Its aging. There is nothing that can be done about it. It happened to KG, its going to be happening to Duncan soon, and its slowly catching Kobe. Its not a criticism

Great post overall. Bolded part is very true.

In this thread:

All (or 99%) PSD fans=>Wade.
Laker fans=>Kobe.

SwaggaIke
04-11-2010, 01:09 AM
wade plays better defense. thats why kobe hit that game winning buzzer beater against him right? hahahahahaha ahhhh i love it!!

How many 3's did Quentin Richardson hit while Kobe was lunching on defense last month in Miami? Wade played outstanding defense on Bryant in both games this season but Kobe's offense game is just that polished. The contests Wade had would have resulted in a miss for ANY other player in the league. Point being Wade couldn't STOP Kobe from scoring, but Kobe CAN'T guard Wade and neither can Ron Artest. Wade showed why he's better than Kobe in that game. He scored the ball well, WHILE playing defense, WHILE keeping his teammates involved. Kobe COMPLETELY disregarded his teammates in the 4th quarter and overtime. Wade consistently got his guys open looks and never shies away from them because they miss a few. If Odom misses a few jimmy's Kobe will forget he's on the court.

As for Wade being the reason why we're a top 3 defense, I'll say that he's is a major factor. Richardson, Haslem, Wright, Anthony and O'Neal are almost flawless in their execution on the defensive end on the nightly basis. They all rotate well to shooters and we're one of the best at running teams off the 3 point line in the league. We're also one of the best charge taking teams in the NBA (if not the best) and O'Neal and Anthony block/affect shots at the rim at a VERY high rate. Credit also should be given to Spoelstra who always has his team prepared and leaves it up to them to execute.

Sefelosha is the best individual defender at the 2 guard position though. He's always given Wade problems and just about everyone else.

Avenged
04-11-2010, 02:26 AM
I am actually surprised I was not bashed in the slightest. Goes to show you that even Laker fans realize that individually, Kobe has been passed. Either that, or nobody wants to bother arguing a dead horse, which they will end up doing.
Kobe is unreal. But he has a team around him now that is also unreal. Wade does not enjoy this, so using success and wins is pointless. Wade is better in every single statistical category basically, and defensively as well. He also has a ring, so the rings argument is mute. Injuries are not important. Anyone who plays 82 games and playoffs for a period of time is beat up. LeBron and Wade are the two best individual players in the NBA. I will give Kobe a nod over D12 due to success, and overall in game dominance, but even D12 is right on top of him. And Paul just needs healthy.
Its aging. There is nothing that can be done about it. It happened to KG, its going to be happening to Duncan soon, and its slowly catching Kobe. Its not a criticism

While I agree Lebron is the better player, im not ready to say Wade is better than Kobe it's 50/50 to me. But Dwight Howard and Chris Paul better than Kobe? Dwight and Paul are phenomenal players and will eventually, but lets slow down a little bit.

ChiSox219
04-11-2010, 02:43 AM
I am actually surprised I was not bashed in the slightest. Goes to show you that even Laker fans realize that individually, Kobe has been passed. Either that, or nobody wants to bother arguing a dead horse, which they will end up doing.
Kobe is unreal. But he has a team around him now that is also unreal. Wade does not enjoy this, so using success and wins is pointless. Wade is better in every single statistical category basically, and defensively as well. He also has a ring, so the rings argument is mute. Injuries are not important. Anyone who plays 82 games and playoffs for a period of time is beat up. LeBron and Wade are the two best individual players in the NBA. I will give Kobe a nod over D12 due to success, and overall in game dominance, but even D12 is right on top of him. And Paul just needs healthy.
Its aging. There is nothing that can be done about it. It happened to KG, its going to be happening to Duncan soon, and its slowly catching Kobe. Its not a criticism

Based on how much Carmleo's defense has improved, his offensive efficiency and unmatched clutch shooting, I'd also put him on the list with Dwight and healthy CP3. I'd say it's Melo and Kobe tied at #4 for now.

tredigs
04-11-2010, 03:48 AM
Based on how much Carmleo's defense has improved, his offensive efficiency and unmatched clutch shooting, I'd also put him on the list with Dwight and healthy CP3. I'd say it's Melo and Kobe tied at #4 for now.

I think Carmelo's the best clutch shooter in the NBA and that offensively he pretty much cannot be shut down, but why do you think he's better defensively? That's where my questions lie as far as Melo goes as a player, I'd like to see him get better there but I just haven't seen it.

dbeastly
04-11-2010, 01:10 PM
Being a Heat fan I'm lucky enough to watch every heat game and actually scout Wade's defense. It kind of pisses me off when Lebron get's highlights for his fastbreak blocks while wade had like 40 more blocks last year and even this year he kills him in that department. All while he is 4 inches shorter. Anyone who disagrees is just ignorant and too caught up in the NBA's marketing crap. Kobe has players around him that could play defense so he doesn't get exposed when he *******'s up, but you cant expect Beasley and Carlos Arroyo to cover Wade's back. Wade plain and simple, is a better driver,slasher,defensive player and ball handler than Kobe. Kobe's just a better shooter.
(Wade is a better defensive player than Lebron also, so please NBA.....get off Lebron and Kobe's d***)

Bring The Heat
04-11-2010, 01:21 PM
I am actually surprised I was not bashed in the slightest. Goes to show you that even Laker fans realize that individually, Kobe has been passed. Either that, or nobody wants to bother arguing a dead horse, which they will end up doing.
Kobe is unreal. But he has a team around him now that is also unreal. Wade does not enjoy this, so using success and wins is pointless. Wade is better in every single statistical category basically, and defensively as well. He also has a ring, so the rings argument is mute. Injuries are not important. Anyone who plays 82 games and playoffs for a period of time is beat up. LeBron and Wade are the two best individual players in the NBA. I will give Kobe a nod over D12 due to success, and overall in game dominance, but even D12 is right on top of him. And Paul just needs healthy.
Its aging. There is nothing that can be done about it. It happened to KG, its going to be happening to Duncan soon, and its slowly catching Kobe. Its not a criticism


Yeah not to mention Wade still won a ring and finals MVP with a shaq that was pretty much past his prime... Still good but not as dominant when Kobe played with him... Kobe for the most of his career has had a pretty damn good supporting cast around him... I mean the dude started off his career with the most dominant player in the league which is not his fault granted Kobe did his part... but Still if Wade was in the same position wouldn't he have more rings?

When Wade has some reliable help around him we already know what he can do.... People just underlook him because he really hasnt had a good team around him since 06... Hopefully that changes in the offseason so he can show why he really is the best

Avenged
04-11-2010, 01:26 PM
Being a Heat fan I'm lucky enough to watch every heat game and actually scout Wade's defense. It kind of pisses me off when Lebron get's highlights for his fastbreak blocks while wade had like 40 more blocks last year and even this year he kills him in that department. All while he is 4 inches shorter. Anyone who disagrees is just ignorant and too caught up in the NBA's marketing crap. Kobe has players around him that could play defense so he doesn't get exposed when he *******'s up, but you cant expect Beasley and Carlos Arroyo to cover Wade's back. Wade plain and simple, is a better driver,slasher,defensive player and ball handler than Kobe. Kobe's just a better shooter.
(Wade is a better defensive player than Lebron also, so please NBA.....get off Lebron and Kobe's d***)

This is a post I can agree with. Even though I think Kobe is a terrific ball handler.

Avenged
04-11-2010, 01:28 PM
Yeah not to mention Wade still won a ring and finals MVP with a shaq that was pretty much past his prime... Still good but not as dominant when Kobe played with him... Kobe for the most of his career has had a pretty damn good supporting cast around him... I mean the dude started off his career with the most dominant player in the league which is not his fault granted Kobe did his part... but Still if Wade was in the same position wouldn't he have more rings?

When Wade has some reliable help around him we already know what he can do.... People just underlook him because he really hasnt had a good team around him since 06... Hopefully that changes in the offseason so he can show why he really is the best

Pure speculation. You don't know that. Kobe has help around him and look what he's done, he has an MVP, a championship and a finals MVP. So pretty much your degrading Kobe by saying what Wade would do with a good team without taking into account what Kobe has done?

Hawkeye15
04-11-2010, 02:15 PM
Yeah not to mention Wade still won a ring and finals MVP with a shaq that was pretty much past his prime... Still good but not as dominant when Kobe played with him... Kobe for the most of his career has had a pretty damn good supporting cast around him... I mean the dude started off his career with the most dominant player in the league which is not his fault granted Kobe did his part... but Still if Wade was in the same position wouldn't he have more rings?

When Wade has some reliable help around him we already know what he can do.... People just underlook him because he really hasnt had a good team around him since 06... Hopefully that changes in the offseason so he can show why he really is the best


Wade also, and justifiably, gets penalized for being part of a 15 win team, regardless of circumstances. Its shows me how valuable he really is, but he was still on that roster. yikes.

Hawkeye15
04-11-2010, 02:16 PM
Pure speculation. You don't know that. Kobe has help around him and look what he's done, he has an MVP, a championship and a finals MVP. So pretty much your degrading Kobe by saying what Wade would do with a good team without taking into account what Kobe has done?

I agree with you on this. What ifs and speculation just get people riled up.

Hawkeye15
04-11-2010, 02:21 PM
While I agree Lebron is the better player, im not ready to say Wade is better than Kobe it's 50/50 to me. But Dwight Howard and Chris Paul better than Kobe? Dwight and Paul are phenomenal players and will eventually, but lets slow down a little bit.

I never said D12 and Paul were better. Quite the opposite actually. I simply said there are not only 2 players better than Kobe in my opinion, but there are a couple right on his heals. I would think Paul, D12, and Durant are all nipping at his heals individually. But they all need to not only sustain what they are doing individually, but get some playoff success under their belts before they pass him. Unless of course none of them win crap in the next 3 years, at which point Kobe will be in full decline mode most likely, and drop out of the top 5-6 player argument at that time. But he aint there yet, not even close

Avenged
04-11-2010, 02:25 PM
I never said D12 and Paul were better. Quite the opposite actually. I simply said there are not only 2 players better than Kobe in my opinion, but there are a couple right on his heals. I would think Paul, D12, and Durant are all nipping at his heals individually. But they all need to not only sustain what they are doing individually, but get some playoff success under their belts before they pass him. Unless of course none of them win crap in the next 3 years, at which point Kobe will be in full decline mode most likely, and drop out of the top 5-6 player argument at that time. But he aint there yet, not even close

Oh alright man I misunderstood then. But in any event, don't be surprised if in the next 3 years Laker fans still say Kobe is the clear cut #1 player :p

Hawkeye15
04-11-2010, 02:34 PM
Oh alright man I misunderstood then. But in any event, don't be surprised if in the next 3 years Laker fans still say Kobe is the clear cut #1 player :p

haha, dude they could wheel Kobe out in a wheelchair in 2023 for 1 mpg, and Laker fans would still say he is the best. Protecting you're player is noble, but when everything points otherwise, it's time to let rational kick in

dwadefan03
04-11-2010, 02:46 PM
i dont see how anyone can even argue that kobe is better than wade. Wade is better in almost every aspect besides 3 pt shooting and free throw percentage. he scores more efficiently, hes more of a willing passer not to mention a better passer overall, hes not an immense ballhog, hes more disruptive on defense, and hes not an immense crybaby when his team isnt winning.

SwaggaIke
04-11-2010, 03:49 PM
Wade also, and justifiably, gets penalized for being part of a 15 win team, regardless of circumstances. Its shows me how valuable he really is, but he was still on that roster. yikes.

Yea w/ a team full of D League players and sub par players. Not to mention the fact that we were in full tank mode for the better part of the season. I can't even remember half of the dudes that were on that roster. Mark Blount, Ricky Davis, Kasib Powell (know him?), Alexander Johnson (know him?) and another white d league player in the Chris Quinn mold. Just a terrible, terrible team from day one. Wade playing at 60% didn't help much either. I'll take Smush and Kwame over that lineup any day.

J$mo0th_3o5
04-11-2010, 03:52 PM
Wade>Kobe :speechless: Yes I did

Hawkeye15
04-11-2010, 05:40 PM
Yea w/ a team full of D League players and sub par players. Not to mention the fact that we were in full tank mode for the better part of the season. I can't even remember half of the dudes that were on that roster. Mark Blount, Ricky Davis, Kasib Powell (know him?), Alexander Johnson (know him?) and another white d league player in the Chris Quinn mold. Just a terrible, terrible team from day one. Wade playing at 60% didn't help much either. I'll take Smush and Kwame over that lineup any day.

oh, I am not blaming Wade at all, I am just saying he did play around 30 games for a team that won 15 total. It was obviously a lost season, but unfortunately for Wade, he was on that roster

HuRRiCaNeS324
04-11-2010, 05:41 PM
Kobe is making a great case for being the second best player today....

Avenged
04-11-2010, 05:42 PM
Kobe is making a great case for being the second best player today....

Glad you feel the same way :up:

Avenged
04-11-2010, 05:43 PM
haha, dude they could wheel Kobe out in a wheelchair in 2023 for 1 mpg, and Laker fans would still say he is the best. Protecting you're player is noble, but when everything points otherwise, it's time to let rational kick in

I bet you Kobe would still be better than some players. :cool:

HuRRiCaNeS324
04-11-2010, 05:46 PM
Kobe is the only player that will still shoot 25+ shots when hes having a horrendous game. He just keeps shooting and shooting and hurting his team.

When Wade has a terrible game like this he normally gets 7-8+ assists.

Kobe has 2...

Hawkeye15
04-11-2010, 05:51 PM
I bet you Kobe would still be better than some players. :cool:

I bet he would still start for my Wolves....

drobe86
04-11-2010, 06:05 PM
1.LBJ/D Wade
2. Kevin Durant
3. Kobe Bryant


There I said it.....

D Roses Bulls
04-11-2010, 10:18 PM
1.LBJ/D Wade
2. Kevin Durant
3. Kobe Bryant


There I said it.....

your a smart guy

G-Funk
04-11-2010, 11:28 PM
:facepalm::facepalm::facepalm:Typical kobe haters.

Wade is great don't get me wrong but he's no Kobe.

Way to kick Kobe when his down, haters.

Wade can only dream to have Kobe's resume.

Wade is going to turn 28 and still can't lock a player down.

Wade ain't much of a player with out screen n rolls.

Wade should worry about been the third best player. In Jan. everyone was talking how Melo and Durant passed him.

Just a few months ago Wade said Kobe is the best player in the league witch is true.

Wade is a good shot bloker and a roamer but can't guard for ****(How can any coach or player respect that?) So don't be surprised if he doesn't get 1st Defensive team.

Soon Kobe won't be the 5th best player in the League, Wade will surpass Kobe but when is all set and done Kobe will be a top 10 player of all time, Wade won't.

Ya'll should get a life and do something, ya'll be hating on Kobe all weekend long.

IRUAM #21
04-11-2010, 11:31 PM
All u guyz r just haterz !!!

G-Funk
04-11-2010, 11:35 PM
^^^they're just obsessed on hating on Kobe.

Avenged
04-11-2010, 11:35 PM
PSD is full of haters.

The only one who gets any love around here is Mike James.

:worthy:

still1ballin
04-11-2010, 11:35 PM
All u guyz r just haterz !!!

And you're a butt saver

DCB/LAL
04-11-2010, 11:59 PM
All u guyz r just haterz !!!


^^^they're just obsessed on hating on Kobe.


PSD is full of haters.

The only one who gets any love around here is Mike James.

:worthy:


And you're a butt saver

What you guys need to realize is these guys hating on Kobe are the minority I mean yeah there on PSD but honestly how many people out in public say the stupid **** some of these posters say?

i mean really how many people out in public who watch and talk basketball really put Wade ahead of Kobe? I live in Texas right now and KOBE is absolutely HATED here and even here in Texas Kobe is still considered if not the best the second best.

You guys gotta realize these idiot just dont like Kobe and they like to act like there opinion is right and you guys get all riled up about relax like I said their the minority when it comes to this Debate.......I mean raelly Wade, Melo, D12 and Paul better than Kobe? Thats ignorance at its best. :laugh:

D Roses Bulls
04-12-2010, 05:39 AM
:facepalm::facepalm::facepalm:Typical kobe haters.

Wade is great don't get me wrong but he's no Kobe.

Way to kick Kobe when his down, haters.

Wade can only dream to have Kobe's resume.

Wade is going to turn 28 and still can't lock a player down.

Wade ain't much of a player with out screen n rolls.

Wade should worry about been the third best player. In Jan. everyone was talking how Melo and Durant passed him.



Just a few months ago Wade said Kobe is the best player in the league witch is true.

Wade is a good shot bloker and a roamer but can't guard for ****(How can any coach or player respect that?) So don't be surprised if he doesn't get 1st Defensive team.

Soon Kobe won't be the 5th best player in the League, Wade will surpass Kobe but when is all set and done Kobe will be a top 10 player of all time, Wade won't.

Ya'll should get a life and do something, ya'll be hating on Kobe all weekend long.

if your talkin out psd people then you sure dont know nothing cause out side of psd i havent heard that and psd is full of people with 5 minutes memories. you switch kobe and wade and i and i bet you the lakers have the most wins in the nba right now. you obviously dont watch wade so you dont know what you are talking about. until you watch him then dont talk

stawka
04-12-2010, 05:43 AM
I'm sorry, but this is coming from a Kobe hater - Wade is NOT on Kobe's level on D. I love Wade and he's an awesome player (top 5 in the league at worst), but Hollinger is a ****in idiot right here.

Once again, I love Wade and I hate Kobe. Thanks and goodnight, close thread

magichatnumber9
04-12-2010, 06:59 AM
I agree

D Roses Bulls
04-12-2010, 07:09 AM
I'm sorry, but this is coming from a Kobe hater - Wade is NOT on Kobe's level on D. I love Wade and he's an awesome player (top 5 in the league at worst), but Hollinger is a ****in idiot right here.

Once again, I love Wade and I hate Kobe. Thanks and goodnight, close thread

not tryna down you or call you any names. all im going to say is watch wade and come back and comment.

G-Funk
04-12-2010, 10:19 AM
if your talkin out psd people then you sure dont know nothing cause out side of psd i havent heard that and psd is full of people with 5 minutes memories. you switch kobe and wade and i and i bet you the lakers have the most wins in the nba right now. you obviously dont watch wade so you dont know what you are talking about. until you watch him then dont talk

take some of your own advice

Chronz
04-12-2010, 01:14 PM
You guys do know he ranked Kobe like alil behind Wade right, anyone saying its a moronic vote or that its not even close one way or another is a fool. I cant believe how insecure you guys are

DCB/LAL
04-12-2010, 03:35 PM
OMG this is funny reading these post.

So here are a few things ive realized here on PSD....

1. Any artical PRO-Kobe is wrong according to all the posters.
2. Any artical ANTI-Kobe is right.
3. Any one who says someone is better than Kobe is right.
4. Anybody saying Kobe is better than anybody else is wrong.


People are so funny on here.....and most of them claim "to know basketball" :laugh: :laugh2: get outta here with that gibberish.




With that I said I agree Wade is the best 2 guard Defensively but only because Kobe seems to slack lately he doesn't play D like he use to. :hide:


You guys do know he ranked Kobe like alil behind Wade right, anyone saying its a moronic vote or that its not even close one way or another is a fool. I cant believe how insecure you guys are

Read my post closely or you'll miss it........I just dont agree with Wade being better than Kobe as an overall player.


I mean really some guy on here even went as far as to say D12 and Paul were better than Kobe thats just nonsense.

D Roses Bulls
04-12-2010, 05:01 PM
take some of your own advice

i do take my own advice, i have never said cause a guy had a good or bad month or a good or bad couple games that he is the best or all a sudden sucks like a lot of you said VC sucked cause he had one bad month in his career and that hes going down hill now and now are saying hes an good all asudden. dont know what your talkin bout

Hawkeye15
04-12-2010, 05:04 PM
not sure why there is a debate. Wade has a better defensive rating, defensive win share, better block and steal %'s, and in all reality, Wade was a better defender even last year. Its not like its a runaway, its just sitting right there in front of you in the stats.

Bruno
04-12-2010, 05:18 PM
not sure why there is a debate. Wade has a better defensive rating, defensive win share, better block and steal %'s, and in all reality, Wade was a better defender even last year. Its not like its a runaway, its just sitting right there in front of you in the stats.

I think Laker fans have a hard time reconciling between the two different Kobes on the defensive end. The Kobe who is out there for the vast majority of the time doesn't give 100% of defense, he coasts. It has been this way ever since he had to take over the offense in 2005-2006. The other Kobe, is a great lock down defender, who shows up during important games, during the playoffs, or while facing an opponent of equal talent (while facing another top player).

For me, Bryant is the best on D when he wants to be. But it seems like Wade gives more on the defensive end, for the majority of the time, during those mundane regulars season games. I think the real question is, what constitutes the better defensive player, the guy who can lock in down better, but only occasionally, when he feels like it, or the guy who plays better defense for the majority of the time, but doesn't peak out as high as the other. Confusing but thats how I look at it. I have no problem saying Wade is the better defender. Chances are they'll both be on the 1st team this year with Paul missing so much time.

D Roses Bulls
04-12-2010, 07:08 PM
I think Laker fans have a hard time reconciling between the two different Kobes on the defensive end. The Kobe who is out there for the vast majority of the time doesn't give 100% of defense, he coasts. It has been this way ever since he had to take over the offense in 2005-2006. The other Kobe, is a great lock down defender, who shows up during important games, during the playoffs, or while facing an opponent of equal talent (while facing another top player).

For me, Bryant is the best on D when he wants to be. But it seems like Wade gives more on the defensive end, for the majority of the time, during those mundane regulars season games. I think the real question is, what constitutes the better defensive player, the guy who can lock in down better, but only occasionally, when he feels like it, or the guy who plays better defense for the majority of the time, but doesn't peak out as high as the other. Confusing but thats how I look at it. I have no problem saying Wade is the better defender. Chances are they'll both be on the 1st team this year with Paul missing so much time.

thats what they use to say about McGrady when he played for Orlando. i use to hear this from many analysis with McGradys athletic ability, wing span, and talent he could of been the best, but he didnt have the drive. kobe can be great when he wants to be on the defensive side, i remember him locking down lebron last year, i mean completely shut lebron down, but like you said, wade gives the effort all the time. so thats why he is the best in that department now

dwadefan03
04-12-2010, 08:37 PM
bryant is maybe a little better individually but wade is miles ahead ahead of him in offball defense. plus its not like wade CANT lock someone down, he just doesnt do it as well as kobe. overall i think its wade but kobe's up there as well.

Avenged
04-12-2010, 09:16 PM
thats what they use to say about McGrady when he played for Orlando. i use to hear this from many analysis with McGradys athletic ability, wing span, and talent he could of been the best, but he didnt have the drive. kobe can be great when he wants to be on the defensive side, i remember him locking down lebron last year, i mean completely shut lebron down, but like you said, wade gives the effort all the time. so thats why he is the best in that department now

This is something I can actually agree with.

D Roses Bulls
04-12-2010, 11:49 PM
This is something I can actually agree with.

glad we can agree on something, lol

JayW_1023
04-13-2010, 04:40 AM
Kobe just isn't motivated on the defensive end anymore, unless he has another star wing player to fuel his competitive juices: usually LBJ, Wade, Durant Roy, Carter, Ray Alle or Manu. He is still a lockdown defender when he wants to be, but he gets burned alot by younger, quicker guards these days.

Wade however, gives more effort of defense every night and his a better weakside defender. It's very unique for a 6'4 guard to be a weakside defender on the wings...and Wade still has the athletic ability at 28 to become that presence. He isn't as good a one-on-one defender as Kobe...but he matches up better against most guards due to his quickness and strength.


Anyway, Bruno87 wins this thread hands down. His posts are right on.