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View Full Version : What was the downfall of Your franchise?



JordansBulls
04-06-2010, 11:35 AM
What was the downfall of Your franchise?

For instance, if you asked what was the downfall of the Bulls franchise it would be that MJ retired in 1999 and Pippen was traded for garbage. I believe there was a rumor that Pippen could have been traded for Mcgrady at the time and/or to the Lakers for Eddie Jones/Elden Campbell or even to Charlotte for Glen Rice. But we got a guy in Roy Rogers and Priest Lauderdale and the following week both guys were off the roster and Pippen was in Houston.

For the Kings franchise I would say the Webber injury pretty much ruined any chance the Kings had of being a title team.


What would you say for the Knicks?

Was it when Ewing was traded?

Was it giving Allan Houston that huge contract?

mikantsass
04-06-2010, 11:43 AM
Celtics.....

Rick.....


Pitino......

rapsallday
04-06-2010, 11:45 AM
trading Vince carter for two scrubs...and Alonzo hospital bill

Giantwarrior
04-06-2010, 11:48 AM
lets see, for the warriors i would have to blame the Ownership, Chris Cohan. I cant wait till he sells the team this summer. THANK GOD! 16 years of the NBA lottery & 1 playoff appearance.

Ruggy
04-06-2010, 11:49 AM
Kiki anybody?

arkanian215
04-06-2010, 11:58 AM
Kiki anybody?

Nope. It has to be ratner. I don't think you can put too much blame on Kiki when the owner pretty much forces you to trade away your guys and then forces you to be a head coach even though you don't want to and since you have no experience coaching to begin with. Does he still suck as a coach? Absolutely.

NBAfan4life
04-06-2010, 12:07 PM
Timberwolves

Basketball decisions. From drafts to trades to who give extensions and who we let walk away. Always bad for Wolves

Lakers

Trading for Kwame was terrible until it secured Gasol. I kind of think Bryant's extension will hurt later, and before I get blasted Kobe is my favorite player even ahead of Lebron. I would of just like to see someone in a position to show that winning means more. Kobe makes so much money in endorsements did you really need that much. 3 years at 60 mill would of shown you cared about winning at least IMO

Wisdom Listens
04-06-2010, 12:20 PM
For the Wolves it was obviously Kevin Mchale, but some would also say Glen Taylor.

dibacco59
04-06-2010, 12:40 PM
The Sixers chose AI over Larry Brown

FlakeyFool
04-06-2010, 12:42 PM
graham over granger, araujo over iggy. hiring of rob babcock, trading vince for ****

Chronz
04-06-2010, 12:42 PM
Timberwolves

Basketball decisions. From drafts to trades to who give extensions and who we let walk away. Always bad for Wolves

Lakers

Trading for Kwame was terrible until it secured Gasol. I kind of think Bryant's extension will hurt later, and before I get blasted Kobe is my favorite player even ahead of Lebron. I would of just like to see someone in a position to show that winning means more. Kobe makes so much money in endorsements did you really need that much. 3 years at 60 mill would of shown you cared about winning at least IMO

Trading for Kwame got the Lakers into the playoffs

Draco
04-06-2010, 12:51 PM
Bulls.. drafting high schoolers; Eddie Curry and Tyson Chandler and signing team cancers; Eddie Robinson and Jalen Rose.

black1605
04-06-2010, 12:52 PM
Bobcats haven't had a downfall yet since they are just now having success, but hiring Sam Vincent set us back.

NBAfan4life
04-06-2010, 12:56 PM
Trading for Kwame got the Lakers into the playoffs

I think year 2 of Kobe Lamar and Caron would of been able to get to a first round knock out as well.

Giaps
04-06-2010, 12:59 PM
Trading the expiring contract of Patrick Ewing. There were other bad moves but that's where it started.

zae316
04-06-2010, 12:59 PM
ELTON BRAND :bang::violin:

Chronz
04-06-2010, 01:06 PM
I think year 2 of Kobe Lamar and Caron would of been able to get to a first round knock out as well.
Why would you think that? They couldnt defend the bigs without sending help, on average every bigman they faced put up near all-star quality #'s and because of the frequent double teaming the Lakers gave up a ton of open 3's. They were the worst defensive team in the league, with Mihm going down the following year it wouldve been even worse, so how exactly were they going to make the playoffs?

The loss of Butler was sustainable because Kobe entered his prime put it into overdrive and has his greatest offensive season ever. What he nor any other Laker couldnt replicate is having a strong defensive minded center like Kwame. With Kwame the Lakers were able to defend every bigman 1 on 1. Neither Caron or Odom were able to provide that.

Maybe they still make the playoffs with Butler improving and who knows maybe Kobe finds a way of becoming MJ-Bron efficient and the offense vastly improves but they still wouldve sucked defensively and still a first round knockout, the Kwame deal wasnt that bad. I do miss Caron in LA though, him and Kobe were tearing it up the final month or so.

NBAfan4life
04-06-2010, 01:10 PM
Why would you think that? They couldnt defend the bigs without sending help, on average every bigman they faced put up near all-star quality #'s and because of the frequent double teaming the Lakers gave up a ton of open 3's. They were the worst defensive team in the league, with Mihm going down the following year it wouldve been even worse, so how exactly were they going to make the playoffs?

The loss of Butler was sustainable because Kobe entered his prime put it into overdrive and has his greatest offensive season ever. What he nor any other Laker couldnt replicate is having a strong defensive minded center like Kwame. With Kwame the Lakers were able to defend every bigman 1 on 1. Neither Caron or Odom were able to provide that.

Maybe they still make the playoffs with Butler improving and who knows maybe Kobe finds a way of becoming MJ-Bron efficient and the offense vastly improves but they still wouldve sucked defensively and still a first round knockout, the Kwame deal wasnt that bad. I do miss Caron in LA though, him and Kobe were tearing it up the final month or so.

I agree with you for sure about the defense. It was still going to be a first round knockout either way. Without the trade Gasol never makes his way to La but like you said Caron and Kobe were playing together perfectly. I was sad to see him gone the following year.

Your right though you cant deny it was the right thing to do.

Sadds The Gr8
04-06-2010, 01:19 PM
will happen in 4 months when Bosh leaves...

netsgiantsyanks
04-06-2010, 01:20 PM
im not a knicks fan but when they drafted fredric weis :facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm: :facepalm::facepalm:

lvlheaded
04-06-2010, 01:20 PM
Isaiah Thomas...Obviously more before but he was god awful

Ballin274
04-06-2010, 01:30 PM
/\ that and trading Ewing, but the actual downfall came with the marbury and mcdyss trades,

JnasD
04-06-2010, 01:36 PM
Patrick Ewing Trade and H2O's contract.

Draco
04-06-2010, 01:39 PM
wow.. a lot of Knick fans in this thread :p

Hawkeye15
04-06-2010, 01:39 PM
Wolves

Even starting a team. McHale wasn't the greatest either

BoognishMN
04-06-2010, 01:50 PM
T'wolves, the simple answer is one name Kevin McHale, however, it's a bit more complicated than that. The one major downfall of the T'wolves was the Joe Smith Debacle.

(Following the 1999–2000 season, it was discovered that Smith was involved in a salary cap-tampering scandal involving Timberwolves executive Kevin McHale. Smith was allegedly promised a future multi-million dollar deal if he signed with the team for below market value, allowing the team to make some additional player moves in the short term. The league later found out about this violation and voided the last year of the contract, also severely punishing the Timberwolves by taking away five first-round draft picks.)

This was why the team was unable to build around Garnett. This led McHale to make some desperate moves that further weakened the team ultimatly causing the Wolves to trade Garnett.

fadedmario
04-06-2010, 01:51 PM
Pistons fan: Trading Chauncey Billups

Aapox
04-06-2010, 01:52 PM
Bulls:

Jerry Krause

SpeeMN
04-06-2010, 01:53 PM
Timberwolves:

People may think it was all the draft day decisions that put the twolves where they are.
But the REAL reason the Twolves SUCk is....

We illegally signed Joe Smith by giving him money under the table. The NBA found out and took away 5 years worth of 1st round picks. This was right after we signed KG to a huge contract. So with no money to sign another big star player and no first round picks during KG's prime, we had no chance, and still have no chance.

That was the downfall of the franchise. And McHale wasn't even fired for that!!!

Wisdom Listens
04-06-2010, 01:54 PM
T'wolves, the simple answer is one name Kevin McHale, however, it's a bit more complicated than that. The one major downfall of the T'wolves was the Joe Smith Debacle.

(Following the 19992000 season, it was discovered that Smith was involved in a salary cap-tampering scandal involving Timberwolves executive Kevin McHale. Smith was allegedly promised a future multi-million dollar deal if he signed with the team for below market value, allowing the team to make some additional player moves in the short term. The league later found out about this violation and voided the last year of the contract, also severely punishing the Timberwolves by taking away five first-round draft picks.)

This was why the team was unable to build around Garnett. This led McHale to make some desperate moves that further weakened the team ultimatly causing the Wolves to trade Garnett.

In a nutshell, no Mchale, no Joe Smith debacle.

BoognishMN
04-06-2010, 02:01 PM
In a nutshell, no Mchale, no Joe Smith debacle.

True although, I wonder how involved Glen Taylor was.

Wisdom Listens
04-06-2010, 02:09 PM
True although, I wonder how involved Glen Taylor was.

I've gotten the impression over the years that among his stronger points, Taylor is also very susceptible to giving into peer pressure. I doubt had McHale not been here Taylor would have even thought of it, let alone went through with it. This is not to absolve him of course, because I find it very hard to believe he had no prior knowledge. Just given his loyalty, he has a hard time saying no.

KnicksorBust
04-06-2010, 02:14 PM
Scott Layden put us in the coffin and put it in the ground and Isiah just bulldozed 500 pounds of dirt on top.

I just posted a huge reply with all the horrible salaries and my computer ****ed it up so I'm not looking them up again but off the top of my head:

Guys who made between $4 to $8 million and sucked: Howard Eisley, Shandon Anderson, Luc Longley, Jerome Williams, Clarence Weatherspoon, Mo Taylor, Malik Rose, Jerome "Ya Dig" James, Chris Wilcox, Chris Duhon and Jared Jeffries

Guys who made between $9 to $13 million and sucked: Eddy Curry, McDyess, Keith Van Horn, Larry Hughes

Guys who made between $14 and $19 million and sucked: Jalen Rose, Penny Hardaway, Antonio McDyess, Steve Francis

Guys who made $20+ million: Allan Houston and Stephon Marbury

Not one franchise player in there and yet absurd money. I'm sorry I know other teams have experienced similar levels of losing during the past decade but not ineptitude to this degree. To have a $120 million dollar payroll and win 23 games, that's just legendary failure. Knicks FTW.

GunFactor187
04-06-2010, 02:21 PM
Losing prime Ben Wallace, and trading Chauncey Billups.

myfavmartin28
04-06-2010, 02:23 PM
Letting go of Richard Jefferson and VC for nothing... Def. putting Bruce Ratner in the FO..

ZebraCity916
04-06-2010, 02:56 PM
Kings- Hiring Musselman and Theus instead of hiring a veteran NBA coach.

That's just my opinion though.

DirkIsTheBest
04-06-2010, 03:10 PM
Trading Devin Harris for Jason Kidd:facepalm:

KnicksorBust
04-06-2010, 03:17 PM
Trading Devin Harris for Jason Kidd:facepalm:

I read posts like and I want to throw my computer out the window of my apartment.

MagicDojo
04-06-2010, 04:49 PM
A greedy disloyal Shaq bolting for LA after getting to the Finals here.

NBAfan4life
04-06-2010, 04:52 PM
A greedy disloyal Shaq bolting for LA after getting to the Finals here.

I think you mean a big baby in shaq who could not handle Penny's popularity

Bruno
04-06-2010, 05:16 PM
Magic and HIV. If he could have continued to play into the 90's maybe Buss would have spent the money to bring in another star to play with Magic and at least challenge those Bulls teams. As in, maybe he doesn't wait until Shaq to sign a BIG name to the roster. If he did this in '92 or '93 the guy could have been off the books by the time Shaq was ready to come to LA. What if the Magic era was extended and it didn't effect landing/formation of Shaq and Bryant?

1992-1997 was the biggest Laker downfall in recent history, thats the best I can come up with.

heatking
04-06-2010, 05:24 PM
lol looks like shaq has caused alot of downfalls. The heat downfall was primarily the ricky davis/mark blount trade, and shaq getting old.

SwaggaIke
04-06-2010, 05:24 PM
As a Heat fan our greatest triumph was our biggest tragedy. We laid it all on the line w/ the acquisitions of Shaq, Walker, Payton, Williams and Posey. It got us a ring, but it also was a ticking time bomb situation. We lost a few of our young assets and were forced to rebuild from the ground up. Even w/ the rebuilding process likely being a quick one, the record of 2 seasons ago still looms.

Ricky Davis and Mark Blount...wow.

blah-blah
04-06-2010, 05:26 PM
Trading VC for garbage
Drafting Joey Graham over Danny Granger
Drafting Rafael Araujo over Andre Iguodala
Drafting Andrea Bargnani over Brandon Roy
Signing Hedo Turkoglu
Giving Jose Calderon a brutal contract
Firing Sam Mitchell

bigsams50
04-06-2010, 06:13 PM
Bobcats haven't had a downfall yet since they are just now having success, but hiring Sam Vincent set us back.

and drafting Morrison and Augustin over BRoy and Lopez

JWO35
04-06-2010, 06:56 PM
Not drafting D-Wade or Carmelo :facepalm:

Toenail Clipper
04-06-2010, 07:15 PM
ELTON BRAND :bang::violin:

Nice to see another Clipper fan! :clap:

JDizzle
04-06-2010, 08:09 PM
when we put are self in cap hell with peja poseys and mo petes contracts.... but if we wanna talk before the chris paul era when we just traded away the whole core of bd wesely and all sad day

soundjunkies2
04-06-2010, 08:44 PM
Trading shaq

Big Zo
04-06-2010, 08:47 PM
Age.

MacFitz92
04-06-2010, 08:52 PM
Trading away Nash. Trading away Kidd.

MacFitz92
04-06-2010, 08:56 PM
Not drafting D-Wade or Carmelo :facepalm:

I couldn't imagine drafting Milicic over those two guys. At least your not Portland and draft Bowie over Michael Jordan, but on the flip side, Bowie had somewhat a value unlike Milichick.

asandhu23
04-06-2010, 08:58 PM
Chris Cohan.

MacFitz92
04-06-2010, 08:58 PM
Also, in the '84 draft, we drafted Sam Perkins right before Charles Barkley and Stansbury right before Stockton. :(

arkanian215
04-06-2010, 09:00 PM
Letting go of Richard Jefferson and VC for nothing... Def. putting Bruce Ratner in the FO..

Ratner owns the Nets so blame the folks who sold the Nets to him. From the beginning he didn't lie about his intentions. It has always been about Brooklyn. Winning was a bonus for him. Once the real estate bubble burst FCE lost tons of money and so did a lot of Ratner's other assets (including the Nets). Of course, the Nets still failed to market themselves well to a supposed basketball hotbed.

The RJ and VC trades are starting to look even worse. They were all about clearing cap space. Any prospect that developed well woud've been a bonus. Both Yi and Lee could be decent role players in the future if they shape up. I don't mind their trades since we shouldn't hover around mediocrity too much. If we're going to lose, we might as well be terrible cuz at least then we'll have a chance at getting a decent draft pick. Had we kept RJ we might've been better or maybe even worse. Can't really say for sure.

MacFitz92
04-06-2010, 10:25 PM
I read posts like and I want to throw my computer out the window of my apartment.

Ah don't worry, he's not a Mavs fan, he claims he's a "Dirk fan". He often trolls in the Mavs forum saying we'll get blown out.

zae316
04-06-2010, 11:42 PM
Nice to see another Clipper fan! :clap:

Im a Sixer fan..well clippers, sixers same thing. I should have put "signing Elton Brand to that rediculous contract:facepalm:"

IAmKira
04-06-2010, 11:47 PM
Trading away Nash. Trading away Kidd.

last time i check.. Nash ditched you guys after u sold him out. You wish u traded Nash. Least u would've gotten sumthing back.

ballpd05
04-06-2010, 11:57 PM
JEFF BOWER!!!! Drafting guys like Marcus Vinicius, Hilton Armstrong, and Cedric Simmons... And Trading Tyson Chandler and eliminating the ferocious alley combo of CP and TC... Signing Peja, Tyson/Okafor, Mo Pete, and James Posey to ignorant contracts.

And Byron Scott letting Brandon Bass, Birdman, and J.R. Smith keep the pine warm... and almost doing the same with Marcus Thornton and DC.

Before that moving to the Western Conference and realizing Jamal Magloire was not the answer.

bmanjones
04-07-2010, 12:10 AM
trading donovan mcnabb.

yea idc i put it in this forum anyway

JordansBulls
04-07-2010, 01:10 AM
Trading away Nash. Trading away Kidd.

Mavs actually got better though.

_KB24_
04-07-2010, 01:17 AM
Clippers moving to LA.

jojoe1188
04-07-2010, 01:31 AM
len bias

sacgiants1213
04-07-2010, 02:26 AM
Horry... for the win.. YES!!!

+ the refs.

asandhu23
04-07-2010, 02:36 AM
Horry... for the win.. YES!!!

+ the refs.

that was a great team. **** you david stern

Jeff559
04-07-2010, 02:57 AM
lets see, for the warriors i would have to blame the Ownership, Chris Cohan. I cant wait till he sells the team this summer. THANK GOD! 16 years of the NBA lottery & 1 playoff appearance.
x2

jackdawson
04-07-2010, 03:18 AM
Ricky davis and Mark blount.
I don't think trading for shaq was a downfall at all. He helped D Wade deliver us a championship. Wade-Butler-Odom might be a great team, but we can say now we have a ship.

DirkIsTheBest
04-07-2010, 04:30 AM
Trading away Nash. Trading away Kidd.

:facepalm::facepalm:
Nash signed with phoenix as a free agent.

JordansBulls
04-07-2010, 08:33 AM
:facepalm::facepalm:
Nash signed with phoenix as a free agent.

:clap:

MacFitz92
04-07-2010, 09:04 AM
:facepalm::facepalm:
Nash signed with phoenix as a free agent.

Whatever, same thing. We let one of our best players of all time slip away.

ballpd05
04-07-2010, 10:30 AM
Whatever, same thing. We let one of our best players of all time slip away.

They were just as good without Nash... They definitely were better defensively

Chronz
04-07-2010, 11:49 AM
:facepalm::facepalm:
Nash signed with phoenix as a free agent.
Only because Dallas decided not to match, its basically the same thing as a trade because they decided to spent that money on Dampier.

:clap:
Tomato, Toma(h)to

Chronz
04-07-2010, 11:50 AM
They were just as good without Nash... They definitely were better defensively

Well they couldve been even better WITH Nash.

thescore53
04-07-2010, 12:33 PM
chris bosh facial fracture on aprill of 2010,

JordansBulls
04-07-2010, 01:49 PM
len bias

How so? You guys were already winning titles when you were going to draft him.

Pierzynski4Prez
04-07-2010, 02:14 PM
Jerry Krause

GSW Hoops
04-07-2010, 02:26 PM
Letting Baron bolt and signing Maggette...

Jerry34
04-07-2010, 02:48 PM
Bulls.. drafting high schoolers; Eddie Curry and Tyson Chandler and signing team cancers; Eddie Robinson and Jalen Rose.

Yeah this is pretty much what I was thinking.

Draco
04-07-2010, 02:51 PM
Yeah this is pretty much what I was thinking.

Those are probably the specific moves Krause made that put us in the hole but I could have gone a bit earlier.. Krause was determined to try to make a championship team without Jordan.. Reinsdorf shouldn't have been given him the chance. So, keeping Krause (who brought in a bunch of bums (either the through the draft of FA and hired his fishing buddy to coach the team) was the downfall in the larger sense.

GSW Hoops
04-07-2010, 02:55 PM
chris bosh facial fracture on aprill of 2010,

More like signing Hedo to a massive deal.

Da Knicks
04-07-2010, 03:01 PM
what have you done Isiah???!!!!!!

Frantico
04-07-2010, 03:11 PM
Utah Jazz...

2 words...

Michael Jordan

JordansBulls
04-07-2010, 06:17 PM
What about the Bulls in 2003 not moving up in the draft to get Wade?

kblo247
04-07-2010, 07:51 PM
Trading for Kwame got the Lakers into the playoffs

Kobe, Caron, and Lamar were the 5th seed in the west till they got hurt, and they only played something like 44 games together.

They just got bit with injuries and a coaching/system overhaul in the middle of the year.

--------

I'd say the turning point for the team was Magic returning to the court and him trying to coach. Both times he sucked at dealing with the team and caused more harm than good.

JordansBulls
04-08-2010, 09:53 PM
Kobe, Caron, and Lamar were the 5th seed in the west till they got hurt, and they only played something like 44 games together.

They just got bit with injuries and a coaching/system overhaul in the middle of the year.

--------

I'd say the turning point for the team was Magic returning to the court and him trying to coach. Both times he sucked at dealing with the team and caused more harm than good.

I think him announcing he had the disease was a bigger blow.

iFYouSeekAmy
04-09-2010, 12:36 AM
Letting Jason Richardson go..
Letting Baron Davis go, then signing Magette
Matt Barnes walked (personal)
(nothing big) but Pietrus left..

I think that concludes the We Believe era

VCaintdead17
04-09-2010, 12:51 AM
Malice at the Palice. I truly believe we would have won it all that year.

Also, signing Larry Bird as our GM.

kblo247
04-09-2010, 12:54 AM
Malice at the Palice. I truly believe we would have won it all that year.

Also, signing Larry Bird as our GM.

I would have actually said letting Larry walk as your coach

VCaintdead17
04-09-2010, 01:00 AM
I would have actually said letting Larry walk as your coach

While Larry was good, so was the other Larry (Brown), same with Rick Carlisle. We would have done just fine if we kept either of them for the long haul. O'brien on the other hand, not so much. Letting Bird walk didn't hurt us as much as him being our GM has.

kblo247
04-09-2010, 01:02 AM
Isiah didn't help matters as the replacement in all honesty, which is what I was hinting at

JordansBulls
04-09-2010, 09:08 AM
Malice at the Palice. I truly believe we would have won it all that year.

Also, signing Larry Bird as our GM.

I think so as well.

wizardsfan3
04-09-2010, 09:21 AM
signing Kwame Brown at the 1st pick in the 2001 draft:facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm:

TheGreenMonster
04-09-2010, 09:25 AM
Keeping Jason Kidd, Letting K-Mart Go, and firing Byron Scott. That is what begun what is the NETS!

Labgrownmangoat
04-09-2010, 10:53 AM
Greedy f'ing owners spat on the people of Seattle and moved the team away. That was the downfall.

JordansBulls
04-11-2010, 07:18 PM
Greedy f'ing owners spat on the people of Seattle and moved the team away. That was the downfall.

Yeah, I still don't see how Seattle lost it's team.
:mad:

R. Johnson#3
04-11-2010, 07:20 PM
I don't wanna dunk no mo.

roshan3ai
04-11-2010, 07:33 PM
Scott Layden and Isiah Thomas

AI4MVP
04-11-2010, 08:24 PM
when robert sarver bought the suns

BradyIsTheMan12
04-11-2010, 08:24 PM
Drafting Sam Bowie and not the greatest player of all time.

Then making a team of Jail Blazers that almost lost us our franchise..Thank goodness we turned it around. Now I'm just hoping I don't have to add one more thing to this list..

BigBlueCrew
04-11-2010, 11:08 PM
Knicks fan - the day cablevision acquired the franchise and james dolan was in charge.

Oh dear god :cry:

heathonater
04-12-2010, 04:30 AM
Drafting Sam Bowie and not the greatest player of all time.

Then making a team of Jail Blazers that almost lost us our franchise..Thank goodness we turned it around. Now I'm just hoping I don't have to add one more thing to this list..

we can only hope.

Dol-Fan
04-12-2010, 04:47 AM
The Raptors?

How can you have a downfall when you've never really been 'up'? :)

magichatnumber9
04-12-2010, 07:03 AM
Celtics:Holding on to Vets way to long

SirCalvin81
04-12-2010, 07:09 AM
Losing prime Ben Wallace, and trading Chauncey Billups.

this for the pistons

JordansBulls
04-12-2010, 08:44 AM
The Raptors?

How can you have a downfall when you've never really been 'up'? :)

:(