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View Full Version : Article: LeBron makes it clear, he wants to go old school on the Celtics



JordansBulls
04-05-2010, 05:22 PM
Link (http://www.cleveland.com/cavs/index.ssf/2010/04/cleveland_cavaliers_at_boston_1.html)



Somewhere between Tony Allen trash-talking in his face and Kevin Garnett grabbing his crotch while issuing LeBron James a sort of invitation Sunday afternoon, James decided he did indeed want a rematch with the Celtics in the postseason.

He didn't say it exactly in the locker room after the game but his point was clear. You could see it in his eyes and in his body language. In a way, LeBron may have even been OK that the Celtics won the game.

The Cavs certainly have some issues to deal with but it didn't take the Celtics to remind him. It just gave something for Boston to chirp about and it seems LeBron is welcoming it.

"This game has lost a little bit of that over the years," LeBron said, "All the talking and teams not liking one another. That is what I figured out last year when I walked off the court in Orlando. People were mad that I didn't shake hands. Why should I be happy? I'm disgusted that I lost. That is what the game has lost."

Translation I: "I look forward to seeing these gentlemen again and getting into it with them full bore."

Translation II: "While I'm pounding my chest, I'm still not sorry about bolting the floor in Orlando."

Personally, the Cavs ought to be careful what they wish for. Circumstances or not, the Celtics have proven they can beat them. The Hawks probably posed fewer dangers.

tredigs
04-05-2010, 05:26 PM
As annoying as Lebron can be at times (dancing during the Bulls game is ********), it's good he's bringing this up. I'm glad he didn't shake their hands. Makes for a better story when next season's playoffs come around. And guess what, they're around. Going to be a good one.

This league is struggling for teams/players that don't like eachother. Hopefully this trend continues!

Gibby23
04-05-2010, 05:29 PM
KG wouldn't have been running his mouth if Shaq was playing yesterday, he will be playing in the playoffs. KG has always been Shaqs *****.

td0tsfinest
04-05-2010, 05:32 PM
Well there is a good possibility these two teams will meet up in the East Semi-Finals. Should be a good series. I'm sure we'll see some of this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tag9UmmFfY8

ManRam
04-05-2010, 05:34 PM
The writer takes a nice 14 year-old jab at LeBron on his "Translation 2". Don't think you can extrapolate that at all unless you just hate the man.

Good to see he's motivated, not that anyone thinks he isn't

Stay_Swim
04-05-2010, 05:39 PM
I'll make this clear...Lebron James you are a douche bag! There I said it. KG can talk, Paul Pierce can talk, Kobe can talk, Duncan can talk lol.

You know why these guys can talk?

It's because they've backed it up and ACTUALLY WON A RING.

Lebron shut your mouth. Play the game. Win a championship.

Until that time comes. Your still a *****. And KG will eat you.

TheKing23
04-05-2010, 05:40 PM
I would love to see Shaq just eat Garnett.

He's such a little *****

TheKing23
04-05-2010, 05:42 PM
I'll make this clear...Lebron James you are a douche bag! There I said it. KG can talk, Paul Pierce can talk, Kobe can talk, Duncan can talk lol.

You know why these guys can talk?

It's because they've backed it up and ACTUALLY WON A RING.

Lebron shut your mouth. Play the game. Win a championship.

Until that time comes. Your still a *****. And KG will eat you.

LeBron would **** on KG in all kinds of ways... It would be 2girls1cup all over again.

BALLER71
04-05-2010, 05:43 PM
I'll make this clear...Lebron James you are a douche bag! There I said it. KG can talk, Paul Pierce can talk, Kobe can talk, Duncan can talk lol.

You know why these guys can talk?

It's because they've backed it up and ACTUALLY WON A RING.

Lebron shut your mouth. Play the game. Win a championship.

Until that time comes. Your still a *****. And KG will eat you.

I don't know how to reply to this...

Gibby23
04-05-2010, 05:44 PM
I would love to see Shaq just eat Garnett.

He's such a little *****

KG wouldn't even talk if Shaq was playing. Shaq laid KG out the first game the Cavs and Celtics played this year. Shaq isn't afraid to get a flagrant to get his point across.

barreleffact
04-05-2010, 05:53 PM
lebron doesnt care. its that simple. he could have won the game last night. that 4th quarter was a statement to the celtics. he easily could have tied the game and won it in OT but he decided to take a shot which was incredibly dumb considering all the missed FT's and the fact that he missed EVERY shot that wasnt a lay-up the entire 4th quarter. after being down 22points in the 2nd half LBJ proved he has no need to be concerned with them

as far as sportsmanship part of it goes, whatever. but for someone so frail to speak of bringing back the old days and disliking opponents, its hilarious. he overexaggerates so much its rediculous and the announers are always like, OMG if lebrons on the ground it miust be huge. please...lebrons just as big of a sham as PP in 08 game 1.

jim51990
04-05-2010, 05:54 PM
I'll make this clear...Lebron James you are a douche bag! There I said it. KG can talk, Paul Pierce can talk, Kobe can talk, Duncan can talk lol.

You know why these guys can talk?

It's because they've backed it up and ACTUALLY WON A RING.

Lebron shut your mouth. Play the game. Win a championship.

Until that time comes. Your still a *****. And KG will eat you.

im pretty sure being the best player in the world is a good enough reason to say what he wants

DCB/LAL
04-05-2010, 06:00 PM
LeBron would **** on KG in all kinds of ways... It would be 2girls1cup all over again.

Wow never thought you'd diss Lebron by calling him a girl. :D


In your defense you also dissed KG.

madiaz3
04-05-2010, 06:01 PM
And by old school he means before rules were invented:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KbdSWMxW1M4

D Roses Bulls
04-05-2010, 06:03 PM
im pretty sure being the best player in the world is a good enough reason to say what he wants

ummm no and as much as it pains me to say this, kobe is the best player in the NBA.

tredigs
04-05-2010, 06:09 PM
ummm no and as much as it pains me to say this, kobe is the best player in the NBA.

Better at getting drafted (well, traded) to the organization that set him up better than any player in the league. But no, he's better at exactly nothing than Lebron James. Actually... FT%. He has a higher FT%. EAT THAT LBJ!

madiaz3
04-05-2010, 06:12 PM
Better at getting drafted (well, traded) to the organization that set him up better than any player in the league. But no, he's better at exactly nothing than Lebron James. Actually... FT%. He has a higher FT%. EAT THAT LBJ!

I think you're mistaking Kobe with Tim Duncan. And using stats in this case over the intangibles is just silly and ignorant.

Red222
04-05-2010, 06:12 PM
ummm no and as much as it pains me to say this, kobe is the best player in the NBA.

more accomplished yes not better atleast not this year

PHX2daDEATH
04-05-2010, 06:43 PM
This is what the NBA lacks..

DCB/LAL
04-05-2010, 06:50 PM
Idk but yesterday when the Cavs turned it up and played playoff type basketball the Celtics could not stop them I was surprised.

I can say maybe I was wrong about the Cavs not having another notch but to my credit I did call the comeback.

Young and Stupid
04-05-2010, 06:59 PM
I think you're mistaking Kobe with Tim Duncan. And using stats in this case over the intangibles is just silly and ignorant.

And....here....we......Go.

If by intangibles you mean the player that was considered a cancer up until 3 years ago. Cavs have more wins with less talent, what more is there to judge by (gonna be funny when you bring up rings, go for it)

Hawkeye15
04-05-2010, 07:00 PM
winning a ring doesn't give you the right to trash talk. You can do it anytime you want, as long as you can back it up. The handshakes, and hugs and all that crap are so annoying now. Every year gets harder to be an NBA fan. The other team is youre enemy. Screw them. You do not need to shake their hand or acknowledge them. FK them.
LeBron is the best player in the world. He can say anything he wants, who cares. He is the one that has to back it up when he hits the floor

Hawkeye15
04-05-2010, 07:01 PM
I think you're mistaking Kobe with Tim Duncan. And using stats in this case over the intangibles is just silly and ignorant.

you can use whatever you like, LeBron is better. Unless you want to pull the same tired rings argument that is all Laker fans can cling to at this point

Knowledge
04-05-2010, 07:03 PM
All this will calm down when Shaq comes back, none of the Celtics would get into it with Cavs if Shaq is there. They know (especially the Celtic's bigs) come playoff time, Shaq will drop that elbow right on their chest if he wants to send a message. We've all seen that plenty of times.

DCB/LAL
04-05-2010, 07:12 PM
you can use whatever you like, LeBron is better. Unless you want to pull the same tired rings argument that is all Laker fans can cling to at this point

Ill take the guy who can deliver championships over MVPs all day if thats what you mean by "same tired rings argument".


Funny thing Kobe got knocked for putting up stats but not winning and now everyone shows double standards for Lebron but oh well.

Raps18-19 Champ
04-05-2010, 07:17 PM
I'll make this clear...Lebron James you are a douche bag! There I said it. KG can talk, Paul Pierce can talk, Kobe can talk, Duncan can talk lol.

You know why these guys can talk?

It's because they've backed it up and ACTUALLY WON A RING.

Lebron shut your mouth. Play the game. Win a championship.

Until that time comes. Your still a *****. And KG will eat you.

That is homo.

Raps18-19 Champ
04-05-2010, 07:19 PM
Ill take the guy who can deliver championships over MVPs all day if thats what you mean by "same tired rings argument".


Funny thing Kobe got knocked for putting up stats but not winning and now everyone shows double standards for Lebron but oh well.

He won a championship 3 times.

What in the hell are you talking about?

Don't try to make stuff up.

The argument was if weather could Kobe win without Shaq. Completely different from Lebron's situation.

JNA17
04-05-2010, 07:22 PM
Ill take the guy who can deliver championships over MVPs all day if thats what you mean by "same tired rings argument".


Funny thing Kobe got knocked for putting up stats but not winning and now everyone shows double standards for Lebron but oh well.

Those type of people that do that are called "haters".

DCB/LAL
04-05-2010, 07:23 PM
He won a championship 3 times.

What in the hell are you talking about?

Don't try to make stuff up.

The argument was if weather could Kobe win without Shaq. Completely different from Lebron's situation.

Oh im sorry I didn't know I had to explain every little thing to you I figured everyone talking basketball on this forum would know what I meant sorry I didn't accound for the ***** on this site once again sorry my apology.


Edit: Dont get all butt hurt now im only kidding with the "*****" comment.

tredigs
04-05-2010, 07:46 PM
I think you're mistaking Kobe with Tim Duncan. And using stats in this case over the intangibles is just silly and ignorant.

"intangibles". Ahh I gotchya. AKA things that you can't put your finger on, and therefore can never prove or disprove? Funny how much longer a "who's the best" argument could drag on when that's the crux of your argument.

And no, I'm not mistaken. Give me prime Shaq and Phil Jackson over any other team, thanks.

knickfan4life
04-05-2010, 07:54 PM
LeBron would **** on KG in all kinds of ways... It would be 2girls1cup all over again.

with the celtics is 3 old men 1 cup... they r finished, done washed up and i love to say it but they can go F themselves

GodsSon
04-05-2010, 07:55 PM
LeBron likes to talk a lot...like how he backed up his words and competed in the dunk contest...oh wait....

Toenail Clipper
04-05-2010, 07:59 PM
KOBE>LEBRON

close thread.

_KB24_
04-05-2010, 08:04 PM
KG will shut his mouth the minute Shaq is on the court. He's been Shaq's ***** for a long time.

knickfan4life
04-05-2010, 08:06 PM
ummm no and as much as it pains me to say this, kobe is the best player in the NBA.

u cannot be serious

Nikeman
04-05-2010, 08:25 PM
I am an unbiased Heat fan.. and simply put

LBJ>Kobe- It has been this way for the last 2 seasons. Last year and this year.

Laker fans can argue all they want, but Kobe has needed the BEST TEAM in the NBA to win his championships. 3 with Shaq, when he was putting up 35 a game in the playoffs, and one last season, when the Lakers had the BEST OVERALL TEAM.

Until this season, LBJ hasn't had much talent around him, and even now, the Lakers have a ton more talent than the Cavs, but still the Cavs have a better record.

Simply put,

If LBJ and Kobe were traded, the Lakers would easily add another 5-10 wins, and wih Kobe on the Cavs, I see the Cavs still winning the division they are in, but as a 3-4 seed in the East

DCB/LAL
04-05-2010, 08:36 PM
I am an unbiased Heat fan.. and simply put

LBJ>Kobe- It has been this way for the last 2 seasons. Last year and this year.

Laker fans can argue all they want, but Kobe has needed the BEST TEAM in the NBA to win his championships. 3 with Shaq, when he was putting up 35 a game in the playoffs, and one last season, when the Lakers had the BEST OVERALL TEAM.
Until this season, LBJ hasn't had much talent around him, and even now, the Lakers have a ton more talent than the Cavs, but still the Cavs have a better record.

Simply put,

If LBJ and Kobe were traded, the Lakers would easily add another 5-10 wins, and wih Kobe on the Cavs, I see the Cavs still winning the division they are in, but as a 3-4 seed in the East

Oh funny..Funny...FUNNY!!


Few years ago those same players that make the Lakers the best "Overall team" were all scrubs to people now that Kobe leads them to a championship their something great. :laugh:

Take Pau Gasol off the Lakers championship run last year and you'll have the same "scrubs"(as people called them before they were contenders) you had before.

No ill tell you what happened was Kobe got his #2 option his sidekick and guess what? Since then the Lakers have been the team to beat! Coincidence? I think not.


But enough about Kobe this is about Lebron and the Celtics.

Avenged
04-05-2010, 08:42 PM
:laugh2: Kobe vs. Lebron thread again!

DCB/LAL
04-05-2010, 08:46 PM
:laugh2: Kobe vs. Lebron thread again!

Some how, some way everyone knew it would happen it has the Celtics who are the Lakers biggest rival and Lebron who is Kobes only challenge to the throne it was bound to happen.

knickfan4life
04-05-2010, 09:17 PM
there shudnt be any kobe v lebron threads... kobe is OLD he is not where he used to be, lebron is a BETTER PLAYER, Kobe fans need to accept that. last year it was close, but this year, its a LANDSLIDE, lebron is EASILY the better player

TheKing23
04-05-2010, 09:20 PM
Yeah, seriously, how the **** has this turned into a LeBron vs. Kobe thread?! Damn.

Stay_Swim
04-05-2010, 09:20 PM
Yah because Lebrick has done anything except for put up pretty stats in the regular season. Yah because Lebrick has 4 championship rings, let alone one...wait...

MTone8788
04-05-2010, 09:25 PM
My thing about the whole Lebron not handshaking after the loss to the Magic is... since when is this your childhood intramural basketball league? Did everyone else line up and congratulate them? No. So what if Lebron is the best player on the Cavs, why should he fake how he feels and handshake when obviously the rest of his entire team didn't also?

Even the other best player in the world doesn't think anything of it http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dwiaVjqACUk

MacFitz92
04-05-2010, 09:29 PM
I don't see the Cavs doing anything in the playoffs.

tredigs
04-05-2010, 09:35 PM
I don't see the Cavs doing anything in the playoffs.

Totally agree. Raptors in 4 in the first round. Mavs 2010 NBA Champions easy.

Mishmin
04-05-2010, 09:38 PM
It pains me as a celtics fan to say it so real, but in a seven game series with a healthy cavs team, the c's just aren't going to shoot 60 percent like they have been this week, and lebron is a train this year. They're at least coming out of the east. If you don't think he's the mvp, then you just don't know anything about basketball.

netsgiantsyanks
04-05-2010, 09:47 PM
I'll make this clear...Lebron James you are a douche bag! There I said it. KG can talk, Paul Pierce can talk, Kobe can talk, Duncan can talk lol.

You know why these guys can talk?

It's because they've backed it up and ACTUALLY WON A RING.

Lebron shut your mouth. Play the game. Win a championship.

Until that time comes. Your still a *****. And KG will eat you.

your the douchebag lebron can **** on every player you mentioned except for duncan and kobe and what does a championship have to do with anything??? so based on what you just said darko milicic can say hes better than lebron because he won a championship


just shut up because what you just said was the stupidest thing ive ever seen somebody write in a long time:facepalm:

ShadyOne
04-05-2010, 09:56 PM
Lebron is the only player who basically single-handedly makes his team title contenders year after year. To whoever made the statement about Lebron only putting up pretty regular season stats, I guess you missed the fact that his career numbers in the playoffs are ridiculous, and that he basically single handedly carried that team last season..

And about the whole thing, good. Let him juice things up, nothing wrong with creating some more buzz, some more intensity. And LOL at whoever thinks Garnett has a right to do anything. He isn't tough in the NBA, unless you count him leading the league in "mean, angry faces made per game". He should be happy he finally won, and finally got paired with Paul Pierce after all these years.

Lebron is who he is, a guy who's every word gets scrutinized, he could say all the right things, and be 100% nice and complimentary, and people would complain he isn't competitive enough. He is an absolute beast, a guy who makes a mediocre at best team look like possible champs. If he ever gets that legit #2 guy he needs (just like Kobe needed, just like Jordan needed, just like Duncan needed, just like "insert great winner here" needed) he would be sporting quite a few rings. Imagine a team featuring Lebron and Gasol...

netsgiantsyanks
04-05-2010, 09:56 PM
[QUOTE=DCB/LAL;12810831]Oh funny..Funny...FUNNY!!


Few years ago those same players that make the Lakers the best "Overall team" were all scrubs to people now that Kobe leads them to a championship their something great. :laugh:

Take Pau Gasol off the Lakers championship run last year and you'll have the same "scrubs"(as people called them before they were contenders) you had before.

No ill tell you what happened was Kobe got his #2 option his sidekick and guess what? Since then the Lakers have been the team to beat! Coincidence? I th

But enough about Kobe this is about Lebron and the Celtics.[/QUOTE

you're right without gasol most of those players would be scrubs the lakers werent even in the playoff race bascially until that gasol trade

avrpatsfan
04-05-2010, 10:03 PM
Good quote by him. He had no reason at all to shake hands with anybody.

NYKnickFanatic
04-05-2010, 10:04 PM
He won a championship 3 times.

What in the hell are you talking about?

Don't try to make stuff up.

The argument was if weather could Kobe win without Shaq. Completely different from Lebron's situation.

Kobe only won 3 championships? :facepalm:

junion
04-05-2010, 10:07 PM
this is what the nba needs. players that wanna show the other one up on the court for the next time they meet. it makes them want to play even harder.

sometimes it seems like players care that they have the money in their paycheck already, and they don't need to play as hard... but when stuff like this happens, you know they're playing for more than the money, and even more than the ring, and more than just a victory... they're playing for pride... that's the truest kind of basketball there is.

DCB/LAL
04-05-2010, 10:21 PM
Oh funny..Funny...FUNNY!!


Few years ago those same players that make the Lakers the best "Overall team" were all scrubs to people now that Kobe leads them to a championship their something great. :laugh:

Take Pau Gasol off the Lakers championship run last year and you'll have the same "scrubs"(as people called them before they were contenders) you had before.

No ill tell you what happened was Kobe got his #2 option his sidekick and guess what? Since then the Lakers have been the team to beat! Coincidence? I th

But enough about Kobe this is about Lebron and the Celtics.

you're right without gasol most of those players would be scrubs the lakers werent even in the playoff race bascially until that gasol trade

Exactly even the GOAT Jordan needed a legit 2nd option to win just goes to show.


Idk if you were being sarcastic or not but doesn't matter either way thanks man for helping make my point and to agree with me.

Hawkeye15
04-05-2010, 10:21 PM
Ill take the guy who can deliver championships over MVPs all day if thats what you mean by "same tired rings argument".


Funny thing Kobe got knocked for putting up stats but not winning and now everyone shows double standards for Lebron but oh well.

????? Kobe was a winner right off the bat. His rings were there at 23. And his individual play made him the best player from 2004-06'. But he has been passed.
My point was, and stands, is the ONLY thing Laker fans have to rely on are Kobe's rings, because not a single thing else points to Kobe being a better player anymore.

Sadds The Gr8
04-05-2010, 10:22 PM
good. Now this should make for an entertaining series.

kjoke
04-05-2010, 10:22 PM
too bad he wont play the celtics cuase lebron is gonna lose in the 1st round

Raps18-19 Champ
04-05-2010, 10:23 PM
Kobe only won 3 championships? :facepalm:

At the time everyone when he was putting up his good stats but people were saying he couldn't win without Shaq.

:facepalm: to you.

JordansBulls
04-05-2010, 10:58 PM
Lebron is the only player who basically single-handedly makes his team title contenders year after year.

How so?

Who is to say Lebron can coexist with another star? Two times he had a bunch of superstars on his team in the Olympics and FIBA he ended up not winning gold.

tredigs
04-05-2010, 11:07 PM
How so?

Who is to say Lebron can coexist with another star? Two times he had a bunch of superstars on his team in the Olympics and FIBA he ended up not winning gold.

The 2008 Olympic Gold says hi.

balla4life22
04-05-2010, 11:20 PM
this is what is great about the celtics. They don't give a **** about the other team, they hate them and they just wanna win. The Celtics have had bad blood with just about every team they play in the playoffs. The Cavs, the Magic, the Lakers, the Bulls, and the Hawks. They've had a numerous amount of scuffles and jawing with players from all of those teams. They play old school ball which is what the NBA needs and which is why i agree with Lebron

ARMIN12NBA
04-05-2010, 11:28 PM
The writer takes a nice 14 year-old jab at LeBron on his "Translation 2". Don't think you can extrapolate that at all unless you just hate the man.

LOL. What are you talking about? Windhorst LOVES LeBJ with all his heart.

_KB24_
04-05-2010, 11:50 PM
The 2008 Olympic Gold says hi.

I wonder who was on that team that wasn't their before.

Hmmmmm..... :eyebrow:

still1ballin
04-05-2010, 11:56 PM
i wonder who was on that team that wasn't their before.

Hmmmmm..... :eyebrow:

+1

DCB/LAL
04-05-2010, 11:57 PM
The 2008 Olympic Gold says hi.

Yeah funny thing and true story...Kobe joins and they win Gold!! Funny isn't it! :D

Raph12
04-06-2010, 12:10 AM
I think he's taking the Celts too lightly, they may be a year older, but they're playoffs-proven... You don't count the Celts or Spurs out in the postseason, you just don't.

tdunk21
04-06-2010, 12:18 AM
KOBE>LEBRON

close thread.

do u even understand the title of the thread????get off that crack...:rolleyes:

tredigs
04-06-2010, 12:21 AM
Yeah funny thing and true story...Kobe joins and they win Gold!! Funny isn't it! :D

Surprise surprise, Lebron and Wade were by far the two best players on the team. Check the stats to jog your memory if you've already forgotten the games.

That's here nor there though. I'm ready for the Cavs and Lakers to play in the finals this year so the Cavs can continue their regular season decimation of the Lakers on into the post-season.

I almost feel like a Cavs fan writing that. Truth is, I'm just a fan of ******** Lakers homers coming to grips with reality.

jackdawson
04-06-2010, 12:24 AM
D Wade was the best player in the olympic. Anyone says otherwise (kobe) is a douchebag aka stupid aka nonsense aka ignorant.

Raph12
04-06-2010, 12:54 AM
Surprise surprise, Lebron and Wade were by far the two best players on the team. Check the stats to jog your memory if you've already forgotten the games.

That's here nor there though. I'm ready for the Cavs and Lakers to play in the finals this year so the Cavs can continue their regular season decimation of the Lakers on into the post-season.

I almost feel like a Cavs fan writing that. Truth is, I'm just a fan of ******** Lakers homers coming to grips with reality.

I agree Lebron and Wade's play was the most impressive on the team statistically, but there were guys who did stuff that didn't show up on the statsheet...

Vets like J-Kidd, Kobe, Redd, Prince and Boozer provided the team with wisdom, intelligence and experience, while the new young guys like CP3, D-Will, Bosh and Dwight came in and provided the team with more youth, athleticism and energy.

3 (Wade, Bron and Melo) of the 12 guys from the 2004 Bronze team remained, it was a completely different team than the previous one and it was a collective total team effort, to single out a couple of guys would just be plain ignorant.

Kobes a Killer
04-06-2010, 12:57 AM
Ya Wade was the best player by far and Kobe did more for the team than lebron did with his lock down D and just making team USA basketball all about defense which they lacked in the past oh and not to mention his 4th quarter domination in the gold medal game Kobe>Lebron

tredigs
04-06-2010, 01:02 AM
I agree Lebron and Wade's play was the most impressive on the team statistically, but there were guys who did stuff that didn't show up on the statsheet...

Vets like J-Kidd, Kobe, Redd, Prince and Boozer provided the team with wisdom, intelligence and experience, while the new young guys like CP3, D-Will, Bosh and Dwight came in and provided the team with more youth, athleticism and energy.

3 (Wade, Bron and Melo) of the 12 guys from the 2004 Bronze team remained, it was a completely different team than the previous one and it was a collective total team effort, to single out a couple of guys would just be plain ignorant.

To single out particular players for being more effective than others is not ignorant, it's reality. What would be ignorant is to single out 1 player out of a group of 9 new players and say that he was the reason for the gold, especially when he's not even the teams best player. I expect nothing else from the homers, though. But enough of Bron / Kobe. The latter doesn't belong in this thread.

Truth be told, the Americans third string is good enough to take gold, it's just a matter of actually caring for them. I don't see Olympic failures/success as a good barometer for a players greatness. Not until the rest of the world catches up.

jojoe1188
04-06-2010, 01:06 AM
im a celts fan and i love it......sounds like something bird would say

Punkindrublic03
04-06-2010, 01:15 AM
I hope the cavs and Celts do play at some point, and the Cavs beat the C's by 20 per game, so that KG shuts the **** up and stops running his mouth like a ****ing doosher

DCB/LAL
04-06-2010, 01:31 AM
Surprise surprise, Lebron and Wade were by far the two best players on the team. Check the stats to jog your memory if you've already forgotten the games.

That's here nor there though. I'm ready for the Cavs and Lakers to play in the finals this year so the Cavs can continue their regular season decimation of the Lakers on into the post-season.

I almost feel like a Cavs fan writing that. Truth is, I'm just a fan of ******** Lakers homers coming to grips with reality.

Well its either your a Cavs fan which is a possibilty but your not or your a Kobe hater(second thread today I use that word in) and since your not a Cavs fan that leaves one option right?

Oh and if not for Kobe both Lebron and Wade would of came up short yet again so thank you try again on that one.....it was a nice try though with your argument of the Stats fact is even with the stats in their favor they would won the Silver had it not been for Mr. Kobe Bean Bryant and came up short yet again.

Im not saying Lebron and Wade weren't needed cause they were just as important but without Kobe chances are they would fallen short yet again argue that. I know you will.

tredigs
04-06-2010, 01:43 AM
Well its either your a Cavs fan which is a possibilty but your not or your a Kobe hater(second thread today I use that word in) and since your not a Cavs fan that leaves one option right?

Oh and if not for Kobe both Lebron and Wade would of came up short yet again so thank you try again on that one.....it was a nice try though with your argument of the Stats fact is even with the stats in their favor they would won the Silver had it not been for Mr. Kobe Bean Bryant and came up short yet again.

Im not saying Lebron and Wade weren't needed cause they were just as important but without Kobe chances are they would fallen short yet again argue that. I know you will.

hahah eh, I won't bother to argue with incoherent, nonsensical rambling. Going to have to make a better argument than that for me to spend more than 5 seconds on that mess of a rebuttal. Start with coherent thoughts, then syntax, then a response. And maybe I'll bother. But I'm willing to bet you get lost somewhere around the middle of step one.

That was a 4th grade comment my friend.

jackdawson
04-06-2010, 01:45 AM
Well its either your a Cavs fan which is a possibilty but your not or your a Kobe hater(second thread today I use that word in) and since your not a Cavs fan that leaves one option right?

Oh and if not for Kobe both Lebron and Wade would of came up short yet again so thank you try again on that one.....it was a nice try though with your argument of the Stats fact is even with the stats in their favor they would won the Silver had it not been for Mr. Kobe Bean Bryant and came up short yet again.

Im not saying Lebron and Wade weren't needed cause they were just as important but without Kobe chances are they would fallen short yet again argue that. I know you will.

Do you speak English?

ElMarroAfamado
04-06-2010, 03:27 AM
lebron james is lucky people cant go "old school" on him...he would cry more than he does now...and he would probably bite more than his nails during crunch time...

DCB/LAL
04-06-2010, 04:55 AM
hahah eh, I won't bother to argue with incoherent, nonsensical rambling. Going to have to make a better argument than that for me to spend more than 5 seconds on that mess of a rebuttal. Start with coherent thoughts, then syntax, then a response. And maybe I'll bother. But I'm willing to bet you get lost somewhere around the middle of step one.

That was a 4th grade comment my friend.

And you provided exactly what? Oh you did the exact same thing genius, oh but it was your "incoherent, nonsensical rambling" so its ok gotcha. ;)

DCB/LAL
04-06-2010, 04:56 AM
Do you speak English?

Every word I spelt was english.....maybe you should ask yourself if you can read English?

Here ill do it for you........Can you read English? :shrug:

kArSoN RyDaH
04-06-2010, 05:04 AM
Surprise surprise, Lebron and Wade were by far the two best players on the team. Check the stats to jog your memory if you've already forgotten the games.

That's here nor there though. I'm ready for the Cavs and Lakers to play in the finals this year so the Cavs can continue their regular season decimation of the Lakers on into the post-season.

I almost feel like a Cavs fan writing that. Truth is, I'm just a fan of ******** Lakers homers coming to grips with reality.

you obviously didnt watch the olympics. who did they turn to in the closing minutes of the game in that game against spain? who did they give the ball to take over and get the W? KOBE!!!! yess wade and lebron dominated the olympics but it doesnt take away from the fact that in crunch time in the championship game they all turned to mr kobe "the black mamba" bryant himself to bring them home the gold. :facepalm:

kArSoN RyDaH
04-06-2010, 05:05 AM
I agree Lebron and Wade's play was the most impressive on the team statistically, but there were guys who did stuff that didn't show up on the statsheet...

Vets like J-Kidd, Kobe, Redd, Prince and Boozer provided the team with wisdom, intelligence and experience, while the new young guys like CP3, D-Will, Bosh and Dwight came in and provided the team with more youth, athleticism and energy.

3 (Wade, Bron and Melo) of the 12 guys from the 2004 Bronze team remained, it was a completely different team than the previous one and it was a collective total team effort, to single out a couple of guys would just be plain ignorant.

this.

kArSoN RyDaH
04-06-2010, 05:08 AM
your the douchebag lebron can **** on every player you mentioned except for duncan and kobe and what does a championship have to do with anything??? so based on what you just said darko milicic can say hes better than lebron because he won a championship


just shut up because what you just said was the stupidest thing ive ever seen somebody write in a long time:facepalm:

:facepalm: thats ur comeback for his championship argument? darko milicic wasnt considered a top player on his team so that lame excuse of a rebuttal you just had is flawed. were talking about top players in the nba not some nobodies.

Giants-49ers-Ws
04-06-2010, 05:18 AM
KG and the rest of the celtics for that matter are THE biggest *****es around..cant wait to see lebron **** all over them in postseason

kArSoN RyDaH
04-06-2010, 05:20 AM
????? Kobe was a winner right off the bat. His rings were there at 23. And his individual play made him the best player from 2004-06'. But he has been passed.
My point was, and stands, is the ONLY thing Laker fans have to rely on are Kobe's rings, because not a single thing else points to Kobe being a better player anymore.

are you serious? if it wasnt for kobe injuring his hand hed be scoring champion this year and mvp hands down. anyone who was watching the lakers in the beginning of this season knows that. he was putting up ridiculous numbers and shooting percentages. kobe hasnt lost any steps at all. he got injured had a back spasm and injured his shooting finger. not to mention he tweeked his knee against oklahoma city in december and a groin injury in the beginning of the season. yes, lebron was bettter this year but kobes still going to get his ring and when hes fully healthy next year and the lakers are healthy hes going to come back full throttle for all of you who think lebron is bettter..

tredigs
04-06-2010, 06:03 AM
are you serious? if it wasnt for kobe injuring his hand hed be scoring champion this year and mvp hands down. anyone who was watching the lakers in the beginning of this season knows that. he was putting up ridiculous numbers and shooting percentages. kobe hasnt lost any steps at all. he got injured had a back spasm and injured his shooting finger. not to mention he tweeked his knee against oklahoma city in december and a groin injury in the beginning of the season. yes, lebron was bettter this year but kobes still going to get his ring and when hes fully healthy next year and the lakers are healthy hes going to come back full throttle for all of you who think lebron is bettter..

What is it about Lakers fans and not knowing how to form sentences? Anyways...

For the record, the injuries excuse is getting a little tired. Guess what? He's getting old. Old people get injured easier, and heal slower. What you're witnessing is a players decline, whether you want to admit it or not.

And for the record, even in the first 11 games of the season while Pau was out so he had to shoulder the shooting load and was playing great ball, he STILL was not putting up the best numbers. The Lakers went 8-3 while he was putting up 29.8 pts on 47.5% shooting with 5.2 rebs and 3.6 asts. Then Pau came back, and the Lakers went on to win 15 of the next 16 games.

LBJ is averaging 29.8 pts on 50% shooting with 7.4 rebs and 8.5 asts on the best team in the NBA. So you can see that Kobe, even while 100% healthy and getting to accrue all the stats his heart desired while Pau was out, still can't touch Lebron's numbers. They were comparable to Durant's, but what he has done with his team is still more impressive than Kobe winning in LA, so Kobe would still undoubtedly be 3rd -5th in the voting. Again, this is assuming he was healthy the whole year, which obviously his aging body isn't going to allow any longer.

Face it kids, he's been passed. Significantly. It will become official in about 2 months.

tredigs
04-06-2010, 06:18 AM
I'd also like to add, Boom Roasted.

jackdawson
04-06-2010, 07:44 AM
Every word I spelt was english.....maybe you should ask yourself if you can read English?

Here ill do it for you........Can you read English? :shrug:

NO, I can't read incoherent, nonsensical english.

JNA17
04-06-2010, 07:49 AM
this thread turns into a kobe vs lebron thread, what a surprise.

J-Relo
04-06-2010, 08:29 AM
I'll make this clear...Lebron James you are a douche bag! There I said it. KG can talk, Paul Pierce can talk, Kobe can talk, Duncan can talk lol.

You know why these guys can talk?

It's because they've backed it up and ACTUALLY WON A RING.

Lebron shut your mouth. Play the game. Win a championship.

Until that time comes. Your still a *****. And KG will eat you.

thoes kind of posts makes me smile :D

JordansBulls
04-06-2010, 08:34 AM
How did this turn into a Kobe vs Lebron again?

Stay_Swim
04-06-2010, 08:36 AM
What is it about Lakers fans and not knowing how to form sentences? Anyways...

For the record, the injuries excuse is getting a little tired. Guess what? He's getting old. Old people get injured easier, and heal slower. What you're witnessing is a players decline, whether you want to admit it or not.

And for the record, even in the first 11 games of the season while Pau was out so he had to shoulder the shooting load and was playing great ball, he STILL was not putting up the best numbers. The Lakers went 8-3 while he was putting up 29.8 pts on 47.5% shooting with 5.2 rebs and 3.6 asts. Then Pau came back, and the Lakers went on to win 15 of the next 16 games.

LBJ is averaging 29.8 pts on 50% shooting with 7.4 rebs and 8.5 asts on the best team in the NBA. So you can see that Kobe, even while 100% healthy and getting to accrue all the stats his heart desired while Pau was out, still can't touch Lebron's numbers. They were comparable to Durant's, but what he has done with his team is still more impressive than Kobe winning in LA, so Kobe would still undoubtedly be 3rd -5th in the voting. Again, this is assuming he was healthy the whole year, which obviously his aging body isn't going to allow any longer.

Face it kids, he's been passed. Significantly. It will become official in about 2 months.

Hey guess what? You and Lebrick can take all those wonderful glorious stats that you just mentioned...add them ALL up...what does that give you...NOT A RING! Stop sucking Lebrick **** until after he actually wins something worth mentioning.

Hey BTW I didn't knwo the game of basketball was about regular season stats and not WINNNING A CHAMPIONSHIP. I better tell Kobe that he needs to win a RGULAR SEASON SCORING TITLE to be considered the best, not WIN CHAMPIONSHIPS!:rolleyes: Your stupid...

Oh and ah...BTW way...OWNED haha

Stay_Swim
04-06-2010, 08:46 AM
your the douchebag lebron can **** on every player you mentioned except for duncan and kobe and what does a championship have to do with anything??? so based on what you just said darko milicic can say hes better than lebron because he won a championship


just shut up because what you just said was the stupidest thing ive ever seen somebody write in a long time:facepalm:

Ok Timmy!

Anyways....He can **** on them? Who cares I can **** on whoever I want!


Do you realize what you just said in that statement?!

And then I love how you follow up that ridiculous comment by say, "just shut up because what you just said was the stupidest thing ive ever seen somebody write in a long time."

Oh yah kid that's right...I forgot these NBA players aren't playing to win a Championship, there playing to put up gaudy REGULAR SEASON stats...oh wait...NOPE YOUR STUPID.

And I won't even go into detail on your Darko argument, anyone with a BRAIN, would easily be able to tell the difference.

Hawkeye15
04-06-2010, 09:19 AM
are you serious? if it wasnt for kobe injuring his hand hed be scoring champion this year and mvp hands down. anyone who was watching the lakers in the beginning of this season knows that. he was putting up ridiculous numbers and shooting percentages. kobe hasnt lost any steps at all. he got injured had a back spasm and injured his shooting finger. not to mention he tweeked his knee against oklahoma city in december and a groin injury in the beginning of the season. yes, lebron was bettter this year but kobes still going to get his ring and when hes fully healthy next year and the lakers are healthy hes going to come back full throttle for all of you who think lebron is bettter..

fun word, isn't it?

RadiantShot
04-06-2010, 09:57 AM
Yo. Let's stop using the Championship excuse please.

Let's think of it this way.

Dwight > Shaq as of right now, and for what's to come.
Lebron > Kobe as of right now, and for what's to come.

Rings don't make a player better than another player. It doesn't come down to Championship facts. Lebron. Is. The. Better. Player. Just because Kobe has rings doesn't make him automatically better than Lebron this season. If Lebron had won a ring last season, the Lakers' excuse would be, "Well, when he win's 4, then you can have a legit argument." I'm tired with that ****. Admit that Lebron is better than Kobe now. Stop living in damn denial.

Stay_Swim
04-06-2010, 10:17 AM
Yo. Let's stop using the Championship excuse please.

Let's think of it this way.

Dwight > Shaq as of right now, and for what's to come.
Lebron > Kobe as of right now, and for what's to come.

Rings don't make a player better than another player. It doesn't come down to Championship facts. Lebron. Is. The. Better. Player. Just because Kobe has rings doesn't make him automatically better than Lebron this season. If Lebron had won a ring last season, the Lakers' excuse would be, "Well, when he win's 4, then you can have a legit argument." I'm tired with that ****. Admit that Lebron is better than Kobe now. Stop living in damn denial.

I love how now winning a Championship is now an excuse. God give me a break kids! Fundamentals? That word mean anything to you? Kobe's got it. Lebron doesn't. Footwork, jumpshot, intelligence all three of those attributes are still lightyears away from Lebrick.
Let me put this in a way that maybe Matt Barnes would understand...

Lebrick did indeed get his team to the Championship....and LOST to the SPURS! The Spurs! Guess what that equals=FAIL
Lebrick was declared the best player last year as well...then he failed to get past the MAGIC... in the playoffs...Your best player has not done anything to justify that title! Get that threw your head!

In order to BE THE BEST YOU HAVE TO WIN. Plain and simple. Winnign my friend is why we play the game to begin with. You young kids get that mixed up with all the youtube and the dunks. Winning still matters more the stats my friend.

And guess what? I'm pretty sure that's why all the players are playing...to WIN A CHAMPIONSHIP. Which my friend Lebrick has failed to do.

Stop acting as if winning Championships are now excuses. Championships are the only thing that matter. If you don't think so, then I'm wondsering why you even play basketball.

Yes. Lebrick is faster, younger, quicker, stronger, more athletic, longer...etc.

But the last time i checked A SHIP is more important then pretty stats and pounding on your chest like a dumbass.

Stay_Swim
04-06-2010, 10:17 AM
fun word, isn't it?

here's another one for you...IF Lebrick could only deliver in the playoffs.

king4day
04-06-2010, 10:29 AM
Maybe it's just me but I didn't take it at all that Lebron was incinuating he wanted a rematch. Just sounds like he's saying the game needs more of it.

mikantsass
04-06-2010, 10:33 AM
are you serious? if it wasnt for kobe injuring his hand hed be scoring champion this year and mvp hands down. anyone who was watching the lakers in the beginning of this season knows that. he was putting up ridiculous numbers and shooting percentages. kobe hasnt lost any steps at all. he got injured had a back spasm and injured his shooting finger. not to mention he tweeked his knee against oklahoma city in december and a groin injury in the beginning of the season. yes, lebron was bettter this year but kobes still going to get his ring and when hes fully healthy next year and the lakers are healthy hes going to come back full throttle for all of you who think lebron is bettter..

One could say the same for Pierce too. But reality is that they DID get hurt and are NOT putting up those numbers consistantly. Like someone said, Kobe is getting older and he has milage on his body from years in the NBA. Players like that get injured more often and take longer time to heal (look at KG). Dont get my wrong, I still would take Kobe on my team over LeBron for this year and next, but your arguement is weak dude

Don P.Belasario
04-06-2010, 10:43 AM
This guy is such a goof. I wish he would just shut up and play basketball. Forget Hollywood... wait till you get a ring before acting in Space Jam II...

Maybe Leduche is behind Monta because of all the stupid BS distractions he brings to Cleveland.

I dont think he will ever win a ring because the one thing he seems unable to do is focus on the present. i.e Why the hell is he talking smack about Boston? Pretty sure Cleveland wont face Boston in the first round.

Love how Jerry Coangolo said no free passes.

Super.
04-06-2010, 10:46 AM
Hey LeBron.

NO RING. NO KING

BRING IT!

Raph12
04-06-2010, 11:19 AM
To single out particular players for being more effective than others is not ignorant, it's reality. What would be ignorant is to single out 1 player out of a group of 9 new players and say that he was the reason for the gold, especially when he's not even the teams best player. I expect nothing else from the homers, though. But enough of Bron / Kobe. The latter doesn't belong in this thread.

Truth be told, the Americans third string is good enough to take gold, it's just a matter of actually caring for them. I don't see Olympic failures/success as a good barometer for a players greatness. Not until the rest of the world catches up.

Now I can agree with this.

Btw the same thing can be said "I don't see Olympic failures/success as a good barometer for a players greatness. Not until the rest of the world catches up." for the 1992 Dream Team... People tend to get ready to salivate all over that team and although I agree they were great, the competition was much worse in those days and that USA team wanted it that much more.

Talent-wise, I don't think there is a dropoff, let alone a significant dropoff, between the team in '92 and the one that will compete in the 2012 Olympics.

The Final Boss
04-06-2010, 11:54 AM
Am I missing something or is Lebron the same clown dancing and posing on the sideline, visually pouting when Wade didn't pass him the rock in the closing seconds of the ASG and when he was given honors after, and turning down team U.S.A. for a role in a movie no one is going to watch? Way to be take it old school Lebron. And people wonder why I call him a clown.

tredigs
04-06-2010, 02:29 PM
I'm just cracking up at the fact that there's a direct correlation between people that can actually put together rational thoughts, and people who understand that LBJ is a better player than Kobe.

Radiants Dwight > Shaq example is perfect. Shaq has had the better career, and D. Howard is currently the better player. Simple as that. If you think that Kobe is still better than Lebron, then you also HAVE to believe that Shaq is currently the best center over Howard. I'd love to see that argument play out.

The frothing from the mouth Kobe posts about rings and "Lebrick" not having any just crack me up. Feel like we're trying to argue with a bunch of 7th graders. I'm assuming that's the case because all the smart Laker fans have accepted that Kobe is no longer the best player, but is still a great player on a great team, with a chance to repeat as champion. And that is enough for them.

Delusion's a hell of a drug.

tdunk21
04-06-2010, 02:44 PM
I love how now winning a Championship is now an excuse. God give me a break kids! Fundamentals? That word mean anything to you? Kobe's got it. Lebron doesn't. Footwork, jumpshot, intelligence all three of those attributes are still lightyears away from Lebrick.
Let me put this in a way that maybe Matt Barnes would understand...

Lebrick did indeed get his team to the Championship....and LOST to the SPURS! The Spurs! Guess what that equals=FAIL
Lebrick was declared the best player last year as well...then he failed to get past the MAGIC... in the playoffs...Your best player has not done anything to justify that title! Get that threw your head!

In order to BE THE BEST YOU HAVE TO WIN. Plain and simple. Winnign my friend is why we play the game to begin with. You young kids get that mixed up with all the youtube and the dunks. Winning still matters more the stats my friend.

And guess what? I'm pretty sure that's why all the players are playing...to WIN A CHAMPIONSHIP. Which my friend Lebrick has failed to do.

Stop acting as if winning Championships are now excuses. Championships are the only thing that matter. If you don't think so, then I'm wondsering why you even play basketball.

Yes. Lebrick is faster, younger, quicker, stronger, more athletic, longer...etc.

But the last time i checked A SHIP is more important then pretty stats and pounding on your chest like a dumbass.

all this explanation still doesnt change anything.....league still thinks lebron is better than kobe......so stop givin lectures on winning championships.....if winning championships only matter, then robert horry who has more rings than kobe, shaq, duncan is better than these 3 superstars......

when the thread title says "lebron" and "celtics" .....laker fans are so dumb to talk about kobe who is no way connected to the thread title.....:facepalm:

kArSoN RyDaH
04-06-2010, 02:51 PM
all this explanation still doesnt change anything.....league still thinks lebron is better than kobe......so stop givin lectures on winning championships.....if winning championships only matter, then robert horry who has more rings than kobe, shaq, duncan is better than these 3 superstars......

when the thread title says "lebron" and "celtics" .....laker fans are so dumb to talk about kobe who is no way connected to the thread title.....:facepalm:

in fact it wasnt even laker fans who brought up kobe it was lebronaliers fans so get it straight. and no robert horry wouldnt be better because he was never the #1 option on a team nor was he a superstar like kobe or lebron. fact of tha matter is kobe 4 > lebrons 0000000000000000! straight up. argue "oh lebron scores this much, passes this much, and rebounds this much" but that still isnt going to change the fact that lebron has 0 rings. lebron went to the championship lost. lebron went to the ecf last year and choked. the year before that when everyone thought lebron was surpassing kobe he couldnt even make it to the ecf. so no, lebron is not bettter and you get a big fat :facepalm:

tredigs
04-06-2010, 02:56 PM
in fact it wasnt even laker fans who brought up kobe it was lebronaliers fans so get it straight. and no robert horry wouldnt be better because he was never the #1 option on a team nor was he a superstar like kobe or lebron. fact of tha matter is kobe 4 > lebrons 0000000000000000! straight up. argue "oh lebron scores this much, passes this much, and rebounds this much" but that still isnt going to change the fact that lebron has 0 rings. lebron went to the championship lost. lebron went to the ecf last year and choked. the year before that when everyone thought lebron was surpassing kobe he couldnt even make it to the ecf. so no, lebron is not bettter and you get a big fat :facepalm:



I'm just cracking up at the fact that there's a direct correlation between people that can actually put together rational thoughts, and people who understand that LBJ is a better player than Kobe.

Radiants Dwight > Shaq example is perfect. Shaq has had the better career, and D. Howard is currently the better player. Simple as that. If you think that Kobe is still better than Lebron, then you also HAVE to believe that Shaq is currently the best center over Howard. I'd love to see that argument play out.

The frothing from the mouth Kobe posts about rings and "Lebrick" not having any just crack me up. Feel like we're trying to argue with a bunch of 7th graders. I'm assuming that's the case because all the smart Laker fans have accepted that Kobe is no longer the best player, but is still a great player on a great team, with a chance to repeat as champion. And that is enough for them.

Delusion's a hell of a drug.


^Repeat. You're out of your league Karson. And probably making what respectable Laker fans there are left cringe right now.

Is there an 18yr old + version of PSD?

RadiantShot
04-06-2010, 03:01 PM
Okay. Let me put this in to terms everyone disagreeing can understand.

Lebron.
Is.
Better.
Than.
Kobe.
Now.
Deal.
With.
It.

Stay Swim, no need to come running around here with your little immature attitude, calling him, "Lebrick." If you want facts, the facts are that Lebron is actually averaging more Points a game than Kobe Bryant. Yup. There you go. Do you need any other reasons? Oh, excuse me. Here comes the ring argument. The only one you have. In this case, I guess you're telling me that Brian Scalabrine could mop the floor with Lebron James too. Robbert Horry > Kobe Bryant. Robbert Horry > Michael Jordan. Bill Russel > Michael Jordan, Karl Malone, Wilt Chamberlain, Shaq, and the list goes on. This isn't about rings. It's about skill. If you have seen Lebron's best game this season, and Kobe's best game this season...It's not even close. Lebron is clearly better than Kobe now. This isn't a team comparison. This isn't a ring comparison. This isn't even a stat comparison for that matter (Which I will add in on, that Lebron is averaging a higher PPG than Kobe, anywhoo.) It's about who is the better player now. If you can't see that it's Lebron James, you're an idiot. Pure. Idiot.

Stay_Swim
04-06-2010, 03:04 PM
I'm just cracking up at the fact that there's a direct correlation between people that can actually put together rational thoughts, and people who understand that LBJ is a better player than Kobe.

Radiants Dwight > Shaq example is perfect. Shaq has had the better career, and D. Howard is currently the better player. Simple as that. If you think that Kobe is still better than Lebron, then you also HAVE to believe that Shaq is currently the best center over Howard. I'd love to see that argument play out.

The frothing from the mouth Kobe posts about rings and "Lebrick" not having any just crack me up. Feel like we're trying to argue with a bunch of 7th graders. I'm assuming that's the case because all the smart Laker fans have accepted that Kobe is no longer the best player, but is still a great player on a great team, with a chance to repeat as champion. And that is enough for them.

Delusion's a hell of a drug.


Im still wondering how you can possibly talk about knowing what your talking about when your disagreeing with fact.

Players are in this league to WIN. Nothing else. Mr. Delusional. Mr. 7th Grader.

Someone please tell me how a scoring title is more important then a Ship?

You cannot. Yes Kobe is on a great team, but he makes that team great.

Stop acting like you know anything about the game of basketball when you are comparing a player with a ton of athletic ability and who is a great scorer, BUT HASN'T WON ANYTHING MEANINGFUL.

Do you understand why these players are playing? I mean besides their ridiculous salaries?...?

RadiantShot
04-06-2010, 03:10 PM
Im still wondering how you can possibly talk about knowing what your talking about when your disagreeing with fact.

Players are in this league to WIN. Nothing else. Mr. Delusional. Mr. 7th Grader.

Someone please tell me how a scoring title is more important then a Ship?

You cannot. Yes Kobe is on a great team, but he makes that team great.

Stop acting like you know anything about the game of basketball when you are comparing a player with a ton of athletic ability and who is a great scorer, BUT HASN'T WON ANYTHING MEANINGFUL.

Do you understand why these players are playing? I mean besides their ridiculous salaries?...?

Horry > Kobe

DCB/LAL
04-06-2010, 03:17 PM
NO, I can't read incoherent, nonsensical english.

HAHAHA :laugh:


Tredigs you have a mini-me on this site.

Ill make it clear for you.....without Kobe Team USA would probably of lost the Gold Medal game to Spain thus meaning Lebron, Wade etc....(Team USA) would of fallen short of winning Gold yet again.

RadiantShot
04-06-2010, 03:19 PM
^
No, no.

Double_R
04-06-2010, 03:21 PM
The writer takes a nice 14 year-old jab at LeBron on his "Translation 2". Don't think you can extrapolate that at all unless you just hate the man.

Good to see he's motivated, not that anyone thinks he isn't

I don't get it, you have all this Magic stuff on on your sig and avatar, but I constantly seeing you stick up for and dote over Lebron...

Then you say "Good to see he's motivated, not that anyone thinks he isn't"
Are you a Cavs fan dressed up like a Magic fan? Who wants their teams biggest competition motivated... makes no sense

The Cavs are currently the Magic's biggest rival/opponent that they will probably see in the playoffs and you say it's good to see Lebron's motivated... WTF

All I noticed from Lebron's comments was that when he talked about losing in Orlando, he said when "I" lost, not when "we" lost... hahahaha, nothing changes with that dude

DCB/LAL
04-06-2010, 03:24 PM
Horry > Kobe

So I could say.....


Dwight Howard>Bill Russell


Would you agree with that? Why or why not?

Double_R
04-06-2010, 03:29 PM
And Radiant shot, I usually agree with you, but your comparing 2 guys who play completely different. Lebron has hyper-inflated stats because he plays with the ball in his hand 90% of the time and Kobe plays off the ball... If I need a basket at any point in the game I take Kobe, because he is the most skilled offensive player in the NBA and if I want a highlight dunk or block I take Lebron. Lebron is a better passer and rebounder, but a lot of those stats is because he has the ball in his hand all game so he passes a lot and as far as rebounds go, he gets a ton of defensive rebounds because he stays on that side of the court when the ball is shot so he can bring the ball up the court. Obviously I would take Lebron #1 in my fantasy league, but in a finals game it would be Kobe. When the defense clogs the lanes, Lebron can't rely on his jumper because it's not that good, it's just ok. Kobe is the most artistic and creative shot maker of all time.

Hey DCB/LAL watch it. ha.. DH is the best player in the NBA when it comes to individual impact.

tdunk21
04-06-2010, 03:33 PM
And Radiant shot, I usually agree with you, but your comparing 2 guys who play completely different. Lebron has hyper-inflated stats because he plays with the ball in his hand 90% of the time and Kobe plays off the ball... If I need a basket at any point in the game I take Kobe, because he is the most skilled offensive player in the NBA and if I want a highlight dunk or block I take Lebron. Lebron is a better passer and rebounder, but a lot of those stats is because he has the ball in his hand all game so he passes a lot and as far as rebounds go, he gets a ton of defensive rebounds because he stays on that side of the court when the ball is shot so he can bring the ball up the court. Obviously I would take Lebron #1 in my fantasy league, but in a finals game it would be Kobe. When the defense clogs the lanes, Lebron can't rely on his jumper because it's not that good, it's just ok. Kobe is the most artistic and creative shot maker of all time.

Hey DCB/LAL watch it. ha.. DH is the best player in the NBA when it comes to individual impact.

if lebron has the ball for 90% of the time, he wouldnt average 8.5 APG....lol at ur thinking capabilities....

Raph12
04-06-2010, 03:37 PM
So I could say.....


Dwight Howard>Bill Russell


Would you agree with that? Why or why not?

I would, Russell's overrated IMO, the era he played in, his physical presence, his athleticism and his limited offense (if you think Dwight's bad, go back and watch Russell).

Here's an article on Dwight>Russell, based on a comment by a Magic broadcaster and former NBA player, who played with and against Bill Russell, Matt Guokas:


All you old-timers out there, take your blood pressure medicine, put on a soothing rendition of Mel Torme singing "Fly Me to the Moon" and brace yourself for what you are about to hear:

Dwight Howard is a better defensive center than Bill Russell.

That's right, BILL RUSSELL.

And this isn't me talking because, quite frankly, Bill Russell was before my time although I do remember when I was kid listening to my stepdad and his buddies talking about how Kareem Abdul-Jabbar was a great center, but, by gosh, he was no Bill Russell.

In fact, I almost spewed Bud Light out of my nose the other night after the Magic-Nuggets game when Magic color analyst Matt Guokas was talking to play-by-play man David Steele during their post-game wrap-up. That's when Guokas dropped the bombshell and actually said Howard is a better defensive center than Russell and, therefore, the greatest defensive big man in the history of the game.

Is this basketball blasphemy by a homer broadcaster or is it intrepid analysis by an astute observer of the game?

If it was anybody else except Guokas, I might call him a hopeless homer, but that's just not Guokas' style. He is not a bombastic broadcaster who is disposed to hyperbole. He is a thoughtful, knowledgeable historian of the game who gives honest opinions during Magic telecasts.

Not only that, but he played against Russell, played with and against Wilt Chamberlain and Kareem Abdul-Jabbar and is old enough to remember when George Mikan played for the old Minneapolis Lakers.

The other day, I called Guokas and gave him a chance to recant the statement he made about Dwight being better defensively than Russell, but he refused to budge.

He did, however, add an obvious qualifier: "Dwight has not accomplished the things Bill Russell did. Dwight has not been a part of 11 championships in 13 years. That's the big difference. What I was talking about when I made the statement is Dwight's sheer ability and skill as compared to Bill Russell's."

In Guokas' opinion, Howard has more overall athleticism than Russell. He's bigger and stronger. He's better-conditioned. He runs faster and jumps higher.

Statistically it's difficult to quantify how Dwight compares to a legend who played a half-century ago. Howard is the reigning defensive player of the year who last year became the youngest ever to lead the league in both rebounding and blocked shots. This season, he will likely become the only player in league history to lead the NBA in both rebounding and blocked shots more than once in a career.

But there's a caveat. In the days of Russell and Chamberlain, no statistic was kept for blocked shots. Some experts estimate Russell would have averaged 4-5 blocks per game if such numbers were kept back then. Dwight is currently averaging 2.75 blocks per game.

There will also be those old-timers who say Dwight's rebounding statistics (13.3 per game this year) don't stack up to Russell's career average of 22.5 boards per game.

But as Guokas points out, it's hard to compare statistics from era to era. There were many more opportunities for blocks and rebounds back in Russell's day because, on average, teams took about 30 more shots per game back then and missed a larger percentage of their shots than NBA teams do today.

"As good a rebounder as Bill Russell was, Dwight is better," Guokas says. "And as a shot-blocker and shot-changer, Dwight has all of the same instincts Russell had, but Dwight is better out on the perimeter defending pick and rolls."

In addition, Guokas rightfully points out that players today are much tougher to defend because of their size, speed and athletic ability. The average size of all NBA players today is close to 6-foot-8. In 1960, when Russell was in his heyday, there were only four players taller than 6-8 in the entire league.

Says Guokas: "Even though the league is watered down to some degree now because we have more teams, there are still more great players today—players who have athletic ability and explosiveness to drive to the basket."

Last year, Howard became the youngest player in NBA history to ever win Defensive Player of the Year and he is almost a mortal lock to repeat this year. Magic coach Stan Van Gundy has said on numerous occasions that the NBA should just permanently engrave Howard's name on the defensive trophy because he will likely win it for years to come.

There is no question Howard is the best defensive player in the game today, but is he better than the man who many consider to be the greatest defensive big man in the history of basketball?

Is he really better than Russell?

I gave Guokas one last chance to take back his blasphemous statement.

"No," he said. "I stand by it."

Quick, cue the Mel Torme music before somebody gets hurt.

Settle down, Gramps, and listen …

Fly me to the moon,

Let me play among the stars,

Let me see what spring is like,

On Jupiter and Mars …
Link (http://www.orlandosentinel.com/sports/orlando-magic/os-bianchi-column-0404-20100403,0,5967148.column)

tredigs
04-06-2010, 03:47 PM
I would, Russell's overrated IMO, the era he played in, his physical presence, his athleticism and his limited offense (if you think Dwight's bad, go back and watch Russell).

Here's an article on Dwight>Russell, based on a comment by a Magic broadcaster and former NBA player, who played with and against Bill Russell, Matt Guokas:


Link (http://www.orlandosentinel.com/sports/orlando-magic/os-bianchi-column-0404-20100403,0,5967148.column)

I'm loving the tangents this thread is going on.

I've been through this before, but Dwight is in no way comparable to Bill Russell. Dwight is also not better than any of the 90's centers like Olajuwon, Shaq, David Robinson, etc. Or Kareem, Wilt Chamberlain, and some others. But that's for another day.

First of all, the raw stats comparison:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/howardw01.html

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/r/russebi01.html

Now, the article I'll defer to that explains why he's better.



Did Bill Russel and Wilt Chamberlain face weak competition?
Two of the NBA's greatest players, Bill Russel and Wilt Chamberlain, are often criticized for playing in a "weak" era. This is far from the truth, as the 1960s were a very good time for basketball. A much smaller league meant more competition for fewer spots. The fact that only the 121 best basketball players in the world could play in the NBA condensed the talent pool to nine teams. In the modern NBA, over half of the teams don't even have one all star player, nevertheless hall of famers. Examining the teams in the mid 1960s, all nine of them had Hall of Fame talents:

Boston Celtics: Bill Russel, John Havlicek, Sam Jones, Tommy Heinsolm
Cincinnati Royals: Oscar Robertson, Jerry Lucas
Philadelphia 76ers: Hal Greer
New York Knicks: Willis Reed
San Francisco Warriors: Wilt Chamberlain, Nate Thurmond
St. Louis Hawks: Bob Pettit
Los Angeles Lakers: Jerry West, Elgin Baylor
Detroit Pistons: David Bing, Dave Debusschere
Baltimore Bullets: Walt Bellamy

Russel and Chamberlain faced various legends on a nightly basis, yet still were known as the best players of their generation. Throughout the decade, the two were subject to strong competition. Some of the great players Russel and Chamberlain faced included:

1960-1964:

Dolph Schayes
Bob Pettit
Walt Bellamy
Jerry Lucas

1965-1968:

Willis Reed
Elvin Hayes
Wes Unseld
Nate Thurmond

1969-1972:

Kareem Abdul Jabbar
Bob Lanier
Artis Gilmore
Billy Cunningham
Dave Cowens

One reason fans tend to lash out at these legends is the absurd stats of not only Russel and Chamberlain, but average players as well, as it was not uncommon for a player to average 15-20 rebounds per game. There are several reasons for the high rebound rates of these players:

a. A high tempo offense. The average team in 1965 shot about 600 more shots than a team in 1985 and about 1400 more shots than a team in 2005.

b. Less fouls called. In 1965, the average team had 2076 personal fouls per season. In 2005, 1856 personal fouls were called. But keep in mind that 1400 more shots were attempted, yet only 200 less fouls called. The result, a lowing field goal percentage, and more shots allowed to be rebounded.

When adjusting the field goal percentage to 45% and reducing the shots taken to the normal rate today, the rebounding rate drops to a more familiar rate for most players. Elgin Baylor would dropped to around 9 boards a game and Nate Thurmond to around 12. However, both Bill Russel and Wilt Chamberlain, even with the adjusted stats, still averaged between 16-20 rebounds per game, showing that they truly did dominate like few others.

Another common misperception is that Bill Russel and Wilt Chamberlain played against only 6'6" white centers. That is completely false. Here are the NBA players from 1960-1972 6'11" or taller who played at least 3 years in the NBA: (list does not include Wilt Chamberlain)

Kareem Abdul Jabbar: 7'2"
Dennis Awtrey: 6'11"
Walt Bellamy: 6'11"
Tom Boerwinkle: 7'0"
Nate Bowmen: 6'11"
Mel Counts: 7'0"
Walter Dukes: 7'0"
Jim Eakins: 6'11"
Ray Felix: 6'11"
Hank Finkel: 7'0"
Artis Gilmore: 7'2"
Swede Halbrook: 7'3"
Reggie Harding: 7'0"
Bob Lanier: 6'11"
Jim McDaniels: 6'11"
Otto Moore: 6'11"
Dave Newmark: 7'0"
Rich Niemann: 7'0"
Billy Paultz: 6'11"
Craig Raymond: 6'11"
Elmore Smith: 7'0"
Chuck Share: 6'11"
Ronald Taylor: 7'1"
Nate Thurmond: 6'11"
Walt Wesley: 6'11"

Two other factors to keep in mind:

a. The NBA was less interested in promoting itself 40 years ago, and therefore, did not see the need to measure players with their shoes on. Almost all players today are listed 1-2 inches taller than their actual height.

b. The NBA had 1/3 of the players that they do now. That means Bill Russel and Wilt Chamberlain faced these 25 guys 3 times more often than they would in the modern nba scheduling.

The truth is, height will never be more of a factor than skill. With several exceptions, players over 7' are typically not very successful. At a collegian level, only three 7 footers have made all-American first team in the last twenty years: Shaquille O'Neal, Andrew Bogut, and Chris Mihm. In this years all star game, Dirk Nowitzki, Pau Gasol, and Chris Kaman were the only three of 30 players selected to be 7 feet, and all are known far more for their skill sets than dominating with size. If height was such a significant factor, then Manute Bol, Shawn Bradly, and Gheorghe Muresan would be hall of fame players, not just fan favorite scrubs.

The overall talent of the 1960s is greatly underestimated as well. The stamina that players in the 1960s have is far greater than anything seen today

1965 Top 3 in minutes played per game
1. Oscar Robertson, 45.6 mpg
2. Bill Russel, 45.2 mpg
3. Wilt Chamberlain, 44.4 mpg

2005 Top 3 in minutes played per game
1. Lebron James, 42.3 mpg
2. Allen Iverson, 42.3 mpg
3. Gilbert Arenas 40.9 mpg

In addition, teams never walked up the court and held the ball for 12
1 month ago
Additional Details
seconds, and then have four players watch as the fifth tries to get to the hoop. Most teams in the 60s tried to get a fast break after every rebound and in the half court set, the ball moved and players were setting screens and cutting to the basket. Yet players were doing this on a nightly basis, without fancy trainers giving massages and various methods to help muscle recovery. In addition, players were far more versatile as Elgin Baylor, Jerry West, Dave Debusschere, and other players could play 3 or 4 positions. Many performances that players had would be considered triple doubles in todays game, but assist rules were far stricter in the 1960s, as the average team in the 1960s made 1000 more field goals per year than a team in 2005, yet averaged 100 less assists.

The 1960s produced some of the leagues finest stars, and it is an absolute travesty that these legends are debunked for playing in a weak era when it is clearly not the case.


Add to that a touch of Bill Russell's 5 MVP trophies, and a pinch of 11 NBA championships as the FIRST option (going against an elite Lakers team headed by Wilt Chamberlain), and you have yourself one of the greatest centers that ever lived.

Dwight Howard is very good, with a chance to one day be a great at the C, but that is a lot of hard work and a LONG ways away before he can be mentioned in the same breath as people like Bill.

Young and Stupid
04-06-2010, 03:49 PM
:yawn: I say this in a lot of Kobe vs. LeBron threads in an attempt to defuse this nonsensical argument, for the most part it doesn't work, but I'll give it a try. Notice two things when it comes to these debates, the people on the side of LeBron use logic, statistics (the most objective language in the world when used without manipulation) and common sense, whereas the people on the Kobe side employ fallacy, homerism and emotionally charged language. You'll also notice that the only people on the Kobe side are Lakers fans and some Bulls fans because Kobe reminds them of MJ, whereas the LeBron side is a heterogeneous group.

The debate is about who the player is right now, not who has had the better career because LeBron is just entering his prime, if we are arguing over who has had a better career it is an illogical debate because LeBron isn't even half-way through his career. However since we are arguing over who the better player is right now using the amount of rings each player has as a barometer is nonsensical because we are talking about the present not the body of work.

I am 95% certain that the above paragraph will not in any way defuse the situation, in fact it will probably light a fire under it, but at least I can walk away saying that I tried.

Avenged
04-06-2010, 04:01 PM
Im still wondering how you can possibly talk about knowing what your talking about when your disagreeing with fact.

Players are in this league to WIN. Nothing else. Mr. Delusional. Mr. 7th Grader.

Someone please tell me how a scoring title is more important then a Ship?

You cannot. Yes Kobe is on a great team, but he makes that team great.

Stop acting like you know anything about the game of basketball when you are comparing a player with a ton of athletic ability and who is a great scorer, BUT HASN'T WON ANYTHING MEANINGFUL.

Do you understand why these players are playing? I mean besides their ridiculous salaries?...?

Kobe Stats

PPG 27.1
RPG 5.4
APG 5.0
SPG 1.6
BPG 0.3
FG% 0.458
FT% 0.814
3P% 0.325
MPG 38.8

Lebron Stats

PPG 29.9
RPG 7.3
APG 8.5
SPG 1.7
BPG 1.0
FG% 0.504
FT% 0.765
3P% 0.335
MPG 39.1


Lebron beats Kobe in every category except FT% while pretty much playing the same minutes. Im a big fan of Kobe as much as the next guy, but clearly Lebron is better right now. It doesn't matter if Lebron just has athletic ability or not, he clearly is the better player. Just learn to accept that and the world will be a better place. Last time I checked, setting records and winning MVP's are pretty damn "meaningful". One player can only do so much, Kobe never won a championship alone but he did when he got a GREAT team around him. Now Lebron has one.

kArSoN RyDaH
04-06-2010, 04:02 PM
:yawn: I say this in a lot of Kobe vs. LeBron threads in an attempt to defuse this nonsensical argument, for the most part it doesn't work, but I'll give it a try. Notice two things when it comes to these debates, the people on the side of LeBron use logic, statistics (the most objective language in the world when used without manipulation) and common sense, whereas the people on the Kobe side employ fallacy, homerism and emotionally charged language. You'll also notice that the only people on the Kobe side are Lakers fans and some Bulls fans because Kobe reminds them of MJ, whereas the LeBron side is a heterogeneous group.

The debate is about who the player is right now, not who has had the better career because LeBron is just entering his prime, if we are arguing over who has had a better career it is an illogical debate because LeBron isn't even half-way through his career. However since we are arguing over who the better player is right now using the amount of rings each player has as a barometer is nonsensical because we are talking about the present not the body of work.

I am 95% certain that the above paragraph will not in any way defuse the situation, in fact it will probably light a fire under it, but at least I can walk away saying that I tried.

i agree with you with the majority of your statement bro. but kobe has been playing with injuries all season and is still putting up numbers while keeping his team #1 in the west. although lebron may be better right now i dont think its a result of him becoming superior to kobe but rather kobe is injured and banged up.

Double_R
04-06-2010, 04:02 PM
if lebron has the ball for 90% of the time, he wouldnt average 8.5 APG....lol at ur thinking capabilities....

Wow... Let me lay out a few things for you there sport,

I was generalizing and overstating to make a point that Lebron has the ball a lot more of the time than Kobe; Second of all, you used an LOL, which makes me laugh at you not out loud. Anyways while your laughing out loud, you should have thought before you posted, but you didn't and therefore I have to help you out. If I were trying to be 100% correct on the time that Lebron has the basketball, what makes you think that because Lebron has the ball 90% of the time that it's impossible for him to pass the ball 8.5 times? I said time, not that he takes 90% of the shots. Have you watched a Cavs game, Lebron dribbles around, penetrates, and kicks the ball out or finds one of his bigs on the block. With you limited brain power, you failed to realize that if Lebron had the basketball for 21.6 seconds of the shot clock, drives and dishes to a teammate, there is still 2.4 seconds left for them to shoot the ball, thus getting Lebron the assist. Think before you challenge someone smarter than yourself.


And on another note... whoever brought up that Lebron beats Kobe in every stat except free throws, that's a good one, because if anyone watched the game on Sunday, they would have seen Lebron do something that Kobe never does, miss 2 crucial free throws in the final seconds of the game and he also missed several 3's in the final minutes(0-9, 3pts), Lebron can't make shots when it counts, because if he made those 2 free throws his team might have won the game.

Nighthawk
04-06-2010, 04:06 PM
wow... Let me lay out a few things for you there sport,

i was generalizing and overstating to make a point that lebron has the ball a lot more of the time than kobe; second of all, you used an lol, which makes me laugh at you not out loud. Anyways while your laughing out loud, you should have thought before you posted, but you didn't and therefore i have to help you out. If i were trying to be 100% correct on the time that lebron has the basketball, what makes you think that because lebron has the ball 90% of the time that it's impossible for him to pass the ball 8.5 times? I said time, not that he takes 90% of the shots. Have you watched a cavs game, lebron dribbles around, penetrates, and kicks the ball out or finds one of his bigs on the block. With you limited brain power, you failed to realize that if lebron had the basketball for 21.6 seconds of the shot clock, drives and dishes to a teammate, there is still 2.4 seconds left for them to shoot the ball, thus getting lebron the assist. Think before you challenge someone smarter than yourself.

a

PWNED !!!!!

tredigs
04-06-2010, 04:15 PM
Wow... Let me lay out a few things for you there sport,

I was generalizing and overstating to make a point that Lebron has the ball a lot more of the time than Kobe; Second of all, you used an LOL, which makes me laugh at you not out loud. Anyways while your laughing out loud, you should have thought before you posted, but you didn't and therefore I have to help you out. If I were trying to be 100% correct on the time that Lebron has the basketball, what makes you think that because Lebron has the ball 90% of the time that it's impossible for him to pass the ball 8.5 times? I said time, not that he takes 90% of the shots. Have you watched a Cavs game, Lebron dribbles around, penetrates, and kicks the ball out or finds one of his bigs on the block. With you limited brain power, you failed to realize that if Lebron had the basketball for 21.6 seconds of the shot clock, drives and dishes to a teammate, there is still 2.4 seconds left for them to shoot the ball, thus getting Lebron the assist. Think before you challenge someone smarter than yourself.

His response was questionable, but you're a self important troglodyte who is completely wrong.

I've watched both teams play more times than I count count over the past half decade, and I can tell you that's not true. Since you won't believe that, I'll point you to their usage %,

"Usg%
Usage Percentage (available since the 1977-78 season in the NBA); the formula is 100 * ((FGA + 0.44 * FTA + TOV) * (Tm MP / 5)) / (MP * (Tm FGA + 0.44 * Tm FTA + Tm TOV)). Usage percentage is an estimate of the percentage of team plays used by a player while he was on the floor."

Lebron's career USG% = 31.9

Kobe's career USG % = 31.3 [in the 7 years that LBJ's been in the league. Kobe's is higher than Lebron's at 32.7]

Once again, the Laker homer is wrong.

In conclusion, Boom. Roasted.

Next?

celtisox41
04-06-2010, 04:17 PM
KG wouldn't have been running his mouth if Shaq was playing yesterday, he will be playing in the playoffs. KG has always been Shaqs *****.

KG isnt scared of some fat*** who cant get up without breaking his knees. Never has been never will, i dont know what games you've been watching. I wish KG and Lebron got in a fight, would've been great to see lebron sprawled out on the court not getting up

MagicDojo
04-06-2010, 04:20 PM
As a Magic fan I was overjoyed watching all that happen. Last year orlando had to beat them both in back to back series and face the Lakers.
I would love to see A Boston CAvs semi. A really angry exahausting 7 game series. so the Magic only have to beat one of them.

celtisox41
04-06-2010, 04:20 PM
Wow... Let me lay out a few things for you there sport,

I was generalizing and overstating to make a point that Lebron has the ball a lot more of the time than Kobe; Second of all, you used an LOL, which makes me laugh at you not out loud. Anyways while your laughing out loud, you should have thought before you posted, but you didn't and therefore I have to help you out. If I were trying to be 100% correct on the time that Lebron has the basketball, what makes you think that because Lebron has the ball 90% of the time that it's impossible for him to pass the ball 8.5 times? I said time, not that he takes 90% of the shots. Have you watched a Cavs game, Lebron dribbles around, penetrates, and kicks the ball out or finds one of his bigs on the block. With you limited brain power, you failed to realize that if Lebron had the basketball for 21.6 seconds of the shot clock, drives and dishes to a teammate, there is still 2.4 seconds left for them to shoot the ball, thus getting Lebron the assist. Think before you challenge someone smarter than yourself.


And on another note... whoever brought up that Lebron beats Kobe in every stat except free throws, that's a good one, because if anyone watched the game on Sunday, they would have seen Lebron do something that Kobe never does, miss 2 crucial free throws in the final seconds of the game and he also missed several 3's in the final minutes(0-9, 3pts), Lebron can't make shots when it counts, because if he made those 2 free throws his team might have won the game.

Lebron doesnt usually take free throws at the end of the game when he's losing, because he just takes threes using the exuse he wants to win the game, and not the true answer that he's scared of taking clutch free throws, he's a coward but when hes winning hes a tough guy (example last night vs garnett)

kArSoN RyDaH
04-06-2010, 04:39 PM
Wow... Let me lay out a few things for you there sport,

I was generalizing and overstating to make a point that Lebron has the ball a lot more of the time than Kobe; Second of all, you used an LOL, which makes me laugh at you not out loud. Anyways while your laughing out loud, you should have thought before you posted, but you didn't and therefore I have to help you out. If I were trying to be 100% correct on the time that Lebron has the basketball, what makes you think that because Lebron has the ball 90% of the time that it's impossible for him to pass the ball 8.5 times? I said time, not that he takes 90% of the shots. Have you watched a Cavs game, Lebron dribbles around, penetrates, and kicks the ball out or finds one of his bigs on the block. With you limited brain power, you failed to realize that if Lebron had the basketball for 21.6 seconds of the shot clock, drives and dishes to a teammate, there is still 2.4 seconds left for them to shoot the ball, thus getting Lebron the assist. Think before you challenge someone smarter than yourself.


And on another note... whoever brought up that Lebron beats Kobe in every stat except free throws, that's a good one, because if anyone watched the game on Sunday, they would have seen Lebron do something that Kobe never does, miss 2 crucial free throws in the final seconds of the game and he also missed several 3's in the final minutes(0-9, 3pts), Lebron can't make shots when it counts, because if he made those 2 free throws his team might have won the game.

yes i seen that game where lebron chokeddddd!!!!!! never would kobe miss free throws in clutch situations. and that my friend is the difference why kobe >>>> lechoke..

kArSoN RyDaH
04-06-2010, 04:41 PM
His response was questionable, but you're a self important troglodyte who is completely wrong.

I've watched both teams play more times than I count count over the past half decade, and I can tell you that's not true. Since you won't believe that, I'll point you to their usage %,

"Usg%
Usage Percentage (available since the 1977-78 season in the NBA); the formula is 100 * ((FGA + 0.44 * FTA + TOV) * (Tm MP / 5)) / (MP * (Tm FGA + 0.44 * Tm FTA + Tm TOV)). Usage percentage is an estimate of the percentage of team plays used by a player while he was on the floor."

Lebron's career USG% = 31.9

Kobe's career USG % = 31.3 [in the 7 years that LBJ's been in the league. Kobe's is higher than Lebron's at 32.7]

Once again, the Laker homer is wrong.

In conclusion, Boom. Roasted.

Next?

that formula is flawed? how does that calculate how long someone has the ball? it doesnt!!

Avenged
04-06-2010, 04:45 PM
Wow... Let me lay out a few things for you there sport,

I was generalizing and overstating to make a point that Lebron has the ball a lot more of the time than Kobe; Second of all, you used an LOL, which makes me laugh at you not out loud. Anyways while your laughing out loud, you should have thought before you posted, but you didn't and therefore I have to help you out. If I were trying to be 100% correct on the time that Lebron has the basketball, what makes you think that because Lebron has the ball 90% of the time that it's impossible for him to pass the ball 8.5 times? I said time, not that he takes 90% of the shots. Have you watched a Cavs game, Lebron dribbles around, penetrates, and kicks the ball out or finds one of his bigs on the block. With you limited brain power, you failed to realize that if Lebron had the basketball for 21.6 seconds of the shot clock, drives and dishes to a teammate, there is still 2.4 seconds left for them to shoot the ball, thus getting Lebron the assist. Think before you challenge someone smarter than yourself.


And on another note... whoever brought up that Lebron beats Kobe in every stat except free throws, that's a good one, because if anyone watched the game on Sunday, they would have seen Lebron do something that Kobe never does, miss 2 crucial free throws in the final seconds of the game and he also missed several 3's in the final minutes(0-9, 3pts), Lebron can't make shots when it counts, because if he made those 2 free throws his team might have won the game.

Exactly... If I would have said that Lebron is better than Kobe in free throws then you may have had a point. But I said Kobe was a better free throw shooter.

Raoul Duke
04-06-2010, 04:50 PM
And on another note... whoever brought up that Lebron beats Kobe in every stat except free throws, that's a good one, because if anyone watched the game on Sunday, they would have seen Lebron do something that Kobe never does, miss 2 crucial free throws in the final seconds of the game and he also missed several 3's in the final minutes(0-9, 3pts), Lebron can't make shots when it counts, because if he made those 2 free throws his team might have won the game.

Yeah. Good job. Lebron just plain never comes through in the clutch.

Unless you count all the times that he has.

I am amazed 1.) at another thread morphing into "Lebron vs Kobe" (srsly, those of you that can't stop with this crap are complete douche bags), and 2.) at how obviously some of you are grasping for straws.

kArSoN RyDaH
04-06-2010, 04:52 PM
One could say the same for Pierce too. But reality is that they DID get hurt and are NOT putting up those numbers consistantly. Like someone said, Kobe is getting older and he has milage on his body from years in the NBA. Players like that get injured more often and take longer time to heal (look at KG). Dont get my wrong, I still would take Kobe on my team over LeBron for this year and next, but your arguement is weak dude

yea i know its hard to argue when kobe hasnt been playing up to par this season but is still doing what he needs to do to keep lakers #1 in the west. i dont think his injuries are a result of his age or anything. but after lakers win it all this year and kobe heals up for next season loook for him to be back full throttle next year and take back that #1 spot that everyone thinks hes lost..

tr4shb0t
04-06-2010, 04:52 PM
Lol Lebron is definitely gonna have no regard for human life in the playoffs. Gonna be just crazy.

WITZ
04-06-2010, 04:53 PM
KG isnt scared of some fat*** who cant get up without breaking his knees. Never has been never will, i dont know what games you've been watching. I wish KG and Lebron got in a fight, would've been great to see lebron sprawled out on the court not getting up

Lmao no,did u not see what anthony peeler(Mighta been someone else) did to Kg back in his Minnesota days,He was a ***** when he got hit with a elbow in the face.

kArSoN RyDaH
04-06-2010, 04:54 PM
Yeah. Good job. Lebron just plain never comes through in the clutch.

Unless you count all the times that he has.

I am amazed 1.) at another thread morphing into "Lebron vs Kobe" (srsly, those of you that can't stop with this crap are complete douche bags), and 2.) at how obviously some of you are grasping for straws.

well people constantly insist on comparing lebron to kobe. if a laker fan makes a comment on a lebron thread that doesnt sit well in the minds of cleveland (lebron) fans or kobe haters then they retaliate by trying to say lebron is better than kobe. thats how its been for a while and it doesnt look like its going to change so get used to it bruh.

Raoul Duke
04-06-2010, 04:57 PM
well people constantly insist on comparing lebron to kobe. if a laker fan makes a comment on a lebron thread that doesnt sit well in the minds of cleveland (lebron) fans or kobe haters then they retaliate by trying to say lebron is better than kobe. thats how its been for a while and it doesnt look like its going to change so get used to it bruh.

OK, I give. You obviously can't be reasoned with.

kArSoN RyDaH
04-06-2010, 05:00 PM
OK, I give. You obviously can't be reasoned with.

lmaoooo ok bro. i wasnt trying to argue with you i was just saying that thats life on psd man. it doesnt seem like its going to change.. the same can be said with laker fans as welll it just isnt happenin lol

DCB/LAL
04-06-2010, 05:08 PM
I'm loving the tangents this thread is going on.

I've been through this before, but Dwight is in no way comparable to Bill Russell. Dwight is also not better than any of the 90's centers like Olajuwon, Shaq, David Robinson, etc. Or Kareem, Wilt Chamberlain, and some others. But that's for another day.

First of all, the raw stats comparison:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/howardw01.html

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/r/russebi01.html

Now, the article I'll defer to that explains why he's better.



Add to that a touch of Bill Russell's 5 MVP trophies, and a pinch of 11 NBA championships as the FIRST option (going against an elite Lakers team headed by Wilt Chamberlain), and you have yourself one of the greatest centers that ever lived.

Dwight Howard is very good, with a chance to one day be a great at the C, but that is a lot of hard work and a LONG ways away before he can be mentioned in the same breath as people like Bill.

What about Bill Russell and the Era he played in does that not have an effect? IF Championships dont measure GREAT players shouldn't Howard be ahead of Russell because of the Era Russell played in?

If your answer is no "Era does not matter" then im more than sure you'd have Wilt as GOAT instead of MJ right? Especially considering championships dont measure greatness according to some right? So which is it? Does "Era" and "Championships" matter when talking about a players greatness or not?


Just trying to prove people always having double standards for players.

kArSoN RyDaH
04-06-2010, 05:10 PM
What about Bill Russell and the Era he played in does that not have an effect? IF Championships dont measure GREAT players shouldn't Howard be ahead of Russell because of the Era Russell played in?

If your answer is no "Era does not matter" then im more than sure you'd have Wilt as GOAT instead of MJ right? Especially considering championships dont measure greatness according to some right? So which is it?


Just trying to prove people always having double standards for players.

yeaa and it always seems to be against kobe too. when kobe is being compared to MJ its he doesnt have 6 championships so hes not great. when its against lebron its his stats dont compare to lebrons. i dont understanddd people on PSD sometimes...

The Final Boss
04-06-2010, 05:15 PM
Oakland raiders!!!
Los angeles lakers!!!
New york yankees!!!
Usc trojans!!!:facepalm:

DCB/LAL
04-06-2010, 05:17 PM
Oakland raiders!!!
Los angeles lakers!!!
New york yankees!!!
Usc trojans!!!:facepalm:

3 of them do reside in his home state of California just a little FYI.

kArSoN RyDaH
04-06-2010, 05:17 PM
101 Reasons Why Kobe > Lebron LMAOOO! =]
1.4-Time NBA Champion
2.An 81 Point Game
3.Mid-range game
4.Three Point Shooting
5.7 Time All Defensive First Team
6.2 Time All Defensive Second Team
7.NBA Slam Dunk Champion
8.Career 84% Free Throw shooter
9.Killer Instinct
10.Great clutch performer
11.Will to win
12.Greater Career Resume
13.Greater Scorer
14.Greater Defender
15.Greater Winner
16.6 NBA Finals Appearances
17.62 points in 3 quarters
18.First player since 1964 to score 45 or more points in four consecutive games
19.65 points vs. Blazers
20.Then 50 points the next game against the Twolves
21.Then another 60 the next game against the Grizzlies
22.10 50-plus point games in one season (2006-2007)
23.Ability to play through pain
24.5 Career 60-plus point games
25.152 Playoff games played & Counting
26.3-Peat
27.Because President Barack Obama said so
28.12 Three Pointers in one game
29.Lebron’s poor jumpshot
30.Lebron’s bad free throw shooting
31.Lebron getting sweapt in the 2007 NBA Finals
32.Creativity
33.Style
34.Jumping over Aston Martin
35.Jumping over Pool of Snakes
36.Creator & Founder of Ankle Insurance
37.Youngest ever in an All-Star game
38.Went to the Playoffs with Smush Parker & Kwame Brown in his starting lineup
39.The reason Team USA won a Gold in 2008
40.Work Ethic
41.Higher basketball IQ
42.9 game streak of 40 or more points
43.Game Winner against Suns in playoffs 5/10/2000
44.Game Winner against Suns in playoffs 2006
45.An All Around Game with no weaknesses
46.Smaller than Lebron, yet still more effective
47.Not as athletic as Lebron, yet still more effective
48.Turnaround Jumper
49.Post up game
50.Game 2 2004 NBA Finals
51.Kobe will win a couple more championships
52.Lebron’s outside shooting range will fail to improve
53.League will clamp down on Lebron’s “Crab” dribbling
54.Defenses will begin to adjust to Lebron’s offense and lack of outside shooting ability
55.Game Winner against Spurs in Playoffs 2002
56.Better offensive moves
57.2nd G.O.A.T…. right below Jordan
58.Level of Intensity
59.Overall consistency for 13 NBA seasons
60.2nd Greatest Scorer in NBA history next to Wilt Chamberlain
61.Holds record for most 3-Pointers in one half (8)
62.35.4 points per game in the 2006 season (8th highest in NBA history)
63.8-time All Defensive Selection
64.11-Time All-NBA selection
65.3-time NBA All-Star Game MVP
66.12-time NBA All-Star
67.2-time scoring champion
68.1-time NBA MVP
69.Better ball handling skills
70.Better passing ability
71.Better court vision
72.He has no tendencies in his game
73.Experience
74.He’s an Assassin
75.Leadership
76.Competitive drive
77.A Majority of NBA players and retired players say he is!
78.Tracy McGrady said so
79.Elton Brand said so
80.Pat Riley said so
81.Gregg Popovich said so
82.Shaquille O’neal said so
83.Toughness
84.Hunger
85.Lebron plays in the weak Eastern Conference
86.Kobe plays in the strong Western Conference
87.Jordan like qualities
88.Jordan like skills
89.Lebron got better after he learned from Kobe with Team USA during the summer
90.Kobe’s shoeline is way better!
91.Durability
92.Playoff experience
93.Playoff success
94.Part of 1 of 3 NBA Dynasties!
95.The Fadeaway Jumper
96.Beating Double Teams
97.Who else would you rather have the ball with the game on the line?
98.Kobe beat Lebron James with 9 fingers
99.61 points in MSG (all time record)
100.Most Popular Athlete in China
101.Unlimited Shooting Range

kArSoN RyDaH
04-06-2010, 05:17 PM
Oakland raiders!!!
Los angeles lakers!!!
New york yankees!!!
Usc trojans!!!:facepalm:

is there a problem?

krazylegz
04-06-2010, 05:24 PM
cavs would win this series in 5

tredigs
04-06-2010, 05:26 PM
What about Bill Russell and the Era he played in does that not have an effect? IF Championships dont measure GREAT players shouldn't Howard be ahead of Russell because of the Era Russell played in?

If your answer is no "Era does not matter" then im more than sure you'd have Wilt as GOAT instead of MJ right? Especially considering championships dont measure greatness according to some right? So which is it? Does "Era" and "Championships" matter when talking about a players greatness or not?


Just trying to prove people always having double standards for players.

I just linked an article explaining the differences in the era's and the misnomers surrounding it in THAT SAME POST. And no, MJ was the best player to the game, for a number of reasons. Once again you fail.


yeaa and it always seems to be against kobe too. when kobe is being compared to MJ its he doesnt have 6 championships so hes not great. when its against lebron its his stats dont compare to lebrons. i dont understanddd people on PSD sometimes...

Jordan was better than Kobe when it came to EVERYTHING. Offensively, defensively, as a leader, as a winner, statistically, importance to the league. Everything.

Kobe readily admits that he modeled his game after MJ, the only difference being that... he ain't no MJ. There is zero argument between the two. None.

How old are you?

kArSoN RyDaH
04-06-2010, 05:28 PM
I just linked an article explaining the differences in the era's and the misnomers surrounding it in THAT SAME POST. And no, MJ was the best player to the game, for a number of reasons. Once again you fail.



Jordan was better than Kobe when it came to EVERYTHING. Offensively, defensively, as a leader, as a winner, statistically, importance to the league. Everything.

Kobe readily admits that he modeled his game after MJ, the only difference being that... he ain't no MJ. There is zero argument between the two. None.

i wasnt trying to create a kobe mj debate im just speaking of the arguments brought up in those type of discussions.

kArSoN RyDaH
04-06-2010, 05:29 PM
^^ oh and im 20 ... but what does that mattter?

DCB/LAL
04-06-2010, 05:31 PM
I just linked an article explaining the differences in the era's and the misnomers surrounding it in THAT SAME POST. And no, MJ was the best player to the game, for a number of reasons. Once again you fail.

So what your just gonna give me answer that says "the link says it" I aske YOU for your answer.


Do championships and era matter when measuring a players greatness? Its a simple YES or NO......and explanation as to why it does or doesn't.


So does it yes or no.

The Final Boss
04-06-2010, 05:35 PM
is there a problem?

Are you from California or New York? And I know damn well you didn't go to Southern Cal. I just find it funny that people rep colleges that they've never attended.:facepalm:

DCB/LAL
04-06-2010, 05:40 PM
If your answer is no then why is MJ better than Wilt? If Stats are all that matters when measuring a players greatness and since you said that "ERA DOES NOT MATTER" then why is MJ better than Wilt?

Wilt averaged 50 a season for crying out loud why is MJ better than Wilt? The guy averaged 30.1 PPG with 22.9 RPG for a CAREER while shooting 54% you yourself said "Era doesn't matter" so now make the case for MJ being the GOAT without the Rings argument cause according to you they dont matter.


Double standards. :pity:


To be clear I think MJ is the GOAT for his stats AND Championships along with accolades but you cant use that arguement if Championships dont measure a players greatness to you.

Twins Fanatic
04-06-2010, 05:40 PM
Shaq is washed up, he just needs to retire...the Cavs are better without him. Yeah, and LBJ should be carefull what he wishes for, the Celtics are still a very talented team and are big threat in the playoffs.

kArSoN RyDaH
04-06-2010, 05:40 PM
Are you from California or New York? And I know damn well you didn't go to Southern Cal. I just find it funny that people rep colleges that they've never attended.:facepalm:

well im from los angeles so that should explain the california teams on my sig. and if that was the case and everyone repped the college they went to you wouldnt have much college football fans at all. so i dont see what your trying to imply? i attend university of hawaii but that shouldnt matter wwhat teams i am fans of. ive beeen a yankee fan since 2nd grade when i had to do a report on babe ruth so that explains the one outlier. :rolleyes:

DCB/LAL
04-06-2010, 05:41 PM
Are you from California or New York? And I know damn well you didn't go to Southern Cal. I just find it funny that people rep colleges that they've never attended.:facepalm:

Wow really? So if someone doesn't go to UT or Florida or Alabama etc.... you cant cheer for them because you didn't attend that U?

kArSoN RyDaH
04-06-2010, 05:41 PM
If your answer is no then why is MJ better than Wilt? If Stats are all that matters when measuring a players greatness and since you said that "ERA DOES NOT MATTER" then why is MJ better than Wilt?

Wilt averaged 50 a season for crying out loud why is MJ better than Wilt? The guy averaged 30.1 PPG with 22.9 RPG for a CAREER while shooting 54% you yourself said "Era doesn't matter" so now make the case for MJ being the GOAT without the Rings argument cause according to you they dont matter.


Double standards. :pity:

well said... :clap: :clap: :clap:

prodigy
04-06-2010, 05:46 PM
Garnett is a just a selfish, disrespectful punk. Even Celtic fans have to admit that this guy is a A-hole lol.

I hope Kids don't look up to him.

tredigs
04-06-2010, 05:54 PM
If your answer is no then why is MJ better than Wilt? If Stats are all that matters when measuring a players greatness and since you said that "ERA DOES NOT MATTER" then why is MJ better than Wilt?

Wilt averaged 50 a season for crying out loud why is MJ better than Wilt? The guy averaged 30.1 PPG with 22.9 RPG for a CAREER while shooting 54% you yourself said "Era doesn't matter" so now make the case for MJ being the GOAT without the Rings argument cause according to you they dont matter.


Double standards. :pity:


To be clear I think MJ is the GOAT for his stats AND Championships along with accolades but you cant use that arguement if Championships dont measure a players greatness to you.

Of course the era matters, you just have to understand how to put it into context. When looking at stats, the rules of the game also matter. And the pace of the game. Wilt would still put up big numbers in this era, but in no way would he be able to average 50 a game in a league where offensive goaltending and 3 seconds in the key exist. There was also the fact that Wilt Chamberlain's stat whoreish ways were world renowned; he would make Ricky Davis and Andray Blatche look like humble school girls.

The guy averaged nearly 40 FGA's a game in the 50pt a game season. That's nearly twice as many as KD and Lebron this season (though both of them average less shots than Kobe). Once again, you need to understand CONTEXT when putting things into perspective. There's a number of other reasons why I wouldn't consider Wilt the Goat over MJ that I won't bother getting into because it would take forever, just rest assure that he is indeed the GOAT.

But if you think that comparing Kobe's 4 NBA championships -- of which 3 were as the teams second best player -- are in any way comparable to the double three peats of MJ as the Bulls best player, or the 11 of Bill as the Celts best player, then you're beyond the cliff edge already and too entrenched in your homerism to bother explaining this to.

EDIT: Done with this debate, by the way. No longer has anything to do with this thread, and your guys' arguments are horrible. We can continue it after the finals this year.

blah-blah
04-06-2010, 05:57 PM
i wana see a fite break out i hate the celtics

tdunk21
04-06-2010, 06:01 PM
101 Reasons Why Kobe > Lebron LMAOOO! =]
1.4-Time NBA Champion
2.An 81 Point Game
3.Mid-range game
4.Three Point Shooting
5.7 Time All Defensive First Team
6.2 Time All Defensive Second Team
7.NBA Slam Dunk Champion
8.Career 84% Free Throw shooter
9.Killer Instinct
10.Great clutch performer
11.Will to win
12.Greater Career Resume
13.Greater Scorer
14.Greater Defender
15.Greater Winner
16.6 NBA Finals Appearances
17.62 points in 3 quarters
18.First player since 1964 to score 45 or more points in four consecutive games
19.65 points vs. Blazers
20.Then 50 points the next game against the Twolves
21.Then another 60 the next game against the Grizzlies
22.10 50-plus point games in one season (2006-2007)
23.Ability to play through pain
24.5 Career 60-plus point games
25.152 Playoff games played & Counting
26.3-Peat
27.Because President Barack Obama said so
28.12 Three Pointers in one game
29.Lebron’s poor jumpshot
30.Lebron’s bad free throw shooting
31.Lebron getting sweapt in the 2007 NBA Finals
32.Creativity
33.Style
34.Jumping over Aston Martin
35.Jumping over Pool of Snakes
36.Creator & Founder of Ankle Insurance
37.Youngest ever in an All-Star game
38.Went to the Playoffs with Smush Parker & Kwame Brown in his starting lineup
39.The reason Team USA won a Gold in 2008
40.Work Ethic
41.Higher basketball IQ
42.9 game streak of 40 or more points
43.Game Winner against Suns in playoffs 5/10/2000
44.Game Winner against Suns in playoffs 2006
45.An All Around Game with no weaknesses
46.Smaller than Lebron, yet still more effective
47.Not as athletic as Lebron, yet still more effective
48.Turnaround Jumper
49.Post up game
50.Game 2 2004 NBA Finals
51.Kobe will win a couple more championships
52.Lebron’s outside shooting range will fail to improve
53.League will clamp down on Lebron’s “Crab” dribbling
54.Defenses will begin to adjust to Lebron’s offense and lack of outside shooting ability
55.Game Winner against Spurs in Playoffs 2002
56.Better offensive moves
57.2nd G.O.A.T…. right below Jordan
58.Level of Intensity
59.Overall consistency for 13 NBA seasons
60.2nd Greatest Scorer in NBA history next to Wilt Chamberlain
61.Holds record for most 3-Pointers in one half (8)
62.35.4 points per game in the 2006 season (8th highest in NBA history)
63.8-time All Defensive Selection
64.11-Time All-NBA selection
65.3-time NBA All-Star Game MVP
66.12-time NBA All-Star
67.2-time scoring champion
68.1-time NBA MVP
69.Better ball handling skills
70.Better passing ability
71.Better court vision
72.He has no tendencies in his game
73.Experience
74.He’s an Assassin
75.Leadership
76.Competitive drive
77.A Majority of NBA players and retired players say he is!
78.Tracy McGrady said so
79.Elton Brand said so
80.Pat Riley said so
81.Gregg Popovich said so
82.Shaquille O’neal said so
83.Toughness
84.Hunger
85.Lebron plays in the weak Eastern Conference
86.Kobe plays in the strong Western Conference
87.Jordan like qualities
88.Jordan like skills
89.Lebron got better after he learned from Kobe with Team USA during the summer
90.Kobe’s shoeline is way better!
91.Durability
92.Playoff experience
93.Playoff success
94.Part of 1 of 3 NBA Dynasties!
95.The Fadeaway Jumper
96.Beating Double Teams
97.Who else would you rather have the ball with the game on the line?
98.Kobe beat Lebron James with 9 fingers
99.61 points in MSG (all time record)
100.Most Popular Athlete in China
101.Unlimited Shooting Range

haha.....good one but still lebron is better than kobe....thats the truth.....
kobe was the 2nd option next to shaq....thats a truth....kobe needs another superstar caliber player to dominate...thats a truth.....so all ur 101 reasons are just :facepalm: .....too much effort for nothing...

oh and also kobe needs bynum to avoid get raped by the spurs

DCB/LAL
04-06-2010, 06:02 PM
Of course the era matters, you just have to understand how to put it into context. When looking at stats, the rules of the game also matter. And the pace of the game. Wilt would still put up big numbers in this era, but in no way would he be able to average 50 a game in a league where offensive goaltending and 3 seconds in the key exist. There was also the fact that Wilt Chamberlain's stat whoreish ways were world renowned; he would make Ricky Davis and Andray Blatche look like humble school girls.

The guy averaged nearly 40 FGA's a game in the 50pt a game season. That's nearly twice as many as KD and Lebron this season (though both of them average less shots than Kobe). Once again, you need to understand CONTEXT when putting things into perspective. There's a number of other reasons why I wouldn't consider Wilt the Goat over MJ that I won't bother getting into because it would take forever, just rest assure that he is indeed the GOAT.

But if you think that comparing Kobe's 4 NBA championships -- of which 3 were as the teams second best player -- are in any way comparable to the double three peats of MJ as a first option, or the 11 of Bill as a 1st option, then you're beyond the cliff edge already and too entrenched in your homerism to bother explaining this to.

Well you pretty much used double standards even if you didn't mean to its either "YES ERA matters" or "NO it doesn't" you can't really have ifs, ands or buts about it otherwise your more than likely adding a double standard.


Once again we have nothing but time on a forum and I like reading your post so go ahead and tell me why you have MJ ahead of Wilt I would like to hear your reasoning. Im interested now....that is if you can give a good reasoning without contradicting yourself I wanna read it.

kArSoN RyDaH
04-06-2010, 06:07 PM
haha.....good one but still lebron is better than kobe....thats the truth.....
kobe was the 2nd option next to shaq....thats a truth....kobe needs another superstar caliber player to dominate...thats a truth.....so all ur 101 reasons are just :facepalm: .....too much effort for nothing...

oh and also kobe needs bynum to avoid get raped by the spurs

doesnt every player need another star caliber player to dominate? i mean name an all time great who didnt have another superstar all star player next to them? plz name one..

tredigs
04-06-2010, 06:14 PM
doesnt every player need another star caliber player to dominate? i mean name an all time great who didnt have another superstar all star player next to them? plz name one..

DING DING DING! Now here's what you do. Take that exact argument, and apply it to your argument of Lebron James not having a ring yet while taking a look at the role players he has had the past 6 seasons.

Now take into account that Kobe has 7 years in the league on him.

Now ask yourself why you're such a homer, and in love with double standards.

Okay, now I am done. Thanks for doing the work for me.

Nikeman
04-06-2010, 06:26 PM
Oh funny..Funny...FUNNY!!


Few years ago those same players that make the Lakers the best "Overall team" were all scrubs to people now that Kobe leads them to a championship their something great. :laugh:

Take Pau Gasol off the Lakers championship run last year and you'll have the same "scrubs"(as people called them before they were contenders) you had before.

No ill tell you what happened was Kobe got his #2 option his sidekick and guess what? Since then the Lakers have been the team to beat! Coincidence? I think not.


But enough about Kobe this is about Lebron and the Celtics.

Kobe was the sidekick for 3 of his rings.

Raph12
04-06-2010, 06:46 PM
I'm loving the tangents this thread is going on.

I've been through this before, but Dwight is in no way comparable to Bill Russell. Dwight is also not better than any of the 90's centers like Olajuwon, Shaq, David Robinson, etc. Or Kareem, Wilt Chamberlain, and some others. But that's for another day.

First of all, the raw stats comparison:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/howardw01.html

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/r/russebi01.html

Now, the article I'll defer to that explains why he's better.



Add to that a touch of Bill Russell's 5 MVP trophies, and a pinch of 11 NBA championships as the FIRST option (going against an elite Lakers team headed by Wilt Chamberlain), and you have yourself one of the greatest centers that ever lived.

Dwight Howard is very good, with a chance to one day be a great at the C, but that is a lot of hard work and a LONG ways away before he can be mentioned in the same breath as people like Bill.

I'll agree his career accomplishments are untouchable and when Guokas said Dwight was better, he meant ability-wise and I agree with him on that. I think Shaq, Kareem, Hakeem, Robinson, Wilt, etc are all better than Bill Russell as well.

As for the competition he faced, Russell came into the league in the 1956-57 season and retired after the 1968-69 season, so the '69-72 centers don't apply to him. Of the remaining centers, only Wilt and Petit's names stand out to me; Dolph Schayes, Walt Bellamy, Jerry Lucas, Willis Reed, Elvin Hayes, Wes Unseld and Nate Thurmond are all subpar centers IMO.

The fact is Russell played 82 games against 8 teams (12 teams later) and of those teams, the players were mostly subpar players, short players, small players and not very athletically gifted (with the exception of a couple). In today's league, Russell would spend most of his days getting dunked on by guards and forwards bigger than him.

Stay_Swim
04-06-2010, 06:48 PM
Okay. Let me put this in to terms everyone disagreeing can understand.

Lebron.
Is.
Better.
Than.
Kobe.
Now.
Deal.
With.
It.

Stay Swim, no need to come running around here with your little immature attitude, calling him, "Lebrick." If you want facts, the facts are that Lebron is actually averaging more Points a game than Kobe Bryant. Yup. There you go. Do you need any other reasons? Oh, excuse me. Here comes the ring argument. The only one you have. In this case, I guess you're telling me that Brian Scalabrine could mop the floor with Lebron James too. Robbert Horry > Kobe Bryant. Robbert Horry > Michael Jordan. Bill Russel > Michael Jordan, Karl Malone, Wilt Chamberlain, Shaq, and the list goes on. This isn't about rings. It's about skill. If you have seen Lebron's best game this season, and Kobe's best game this season...It's not even close. Lebron is clearly better than Kobe now. This isn't a team comparison. This isn't a ring comparison. This isn't even a stat comparison for that matter (Which I will add in on, that Lebron is averaging a higher PPG than Kobe, anywhoo.) It's about who is the better player now. If you can't see that it's Lebron James, you're an idiot. Pure. Idiot.

Actually I can call Lebrick whatever the hell I want. It's not immature it's called stating the obvious. I'm just waiting for him to ACTUALLY prove me wrong.

And also it's not the only reason why Kobe is better, I've already named those reasons tho, I understand why a guy with a Matt Barnes sig wouldn't get that tho.

I'm still waiting for a legit reason why Lebron is better. Regular Season stats don't mean **** anymore. And thats what you base you WHOLE ENTIRE ARGUMENT AROUND. Regular season stats, thats all you have. Nothing else. Remember that. Nothing.

I guess it all comes down to what you want YOUR player playing for. I guess to most of you playing the game of basketball isn't about winning anymore...haha It's about flashy dunks and stats. haha.

Ignorance is bliss my friend.

kArSoN RyDaH
04-06-2010, 06:49 PM
DING DING DING! Now here's what you do. Take that exact argument, and apply it to your argument of Lebron James not having a ring yet while taking a look at the role players he has had the past 6 seasons.

Now take into account that Kobe has 7 years in the league on him.

Now ask yourself why you're such a homer, and in love with double standards.

Okay, now I am done. Thanks for doing the work for me.

if im not mistaken didnt lebron have mo williams who was an all star last year? not to mention big z who is a two time all star...and was an all star 2 years before lebron got smashed in the finals
ding ding ding. lebron had an all star in mo and still couldnt produce with a star on his side last year.
this year he has that same team plus shaq and jamison. so when he doesnt win it this year im dying to hear what arguments you laker/kobe haters have to come up with..lakers have 2 All Star players pau and kobe. cavs are filled with all star talent. so dont give me all that he doesnt have an all star by his side bullcrap. lebron had an all star when he went to the championship and an all star last year when they got smashed by the magic..

DCB/LAL
04-06-2010, 06:53 PM
DING DING DING! Now here's what you do. Take that exact argument, and apply it to your argument of Lebron James not having a ring yet while taking a look at the role players he has had the past 6 seasons.

Now take into account that Kobe has 7 years in the league on him.

Now ask yourself why you're such a homer, and in love with double standards.

Okay, now I am done. Thanks for doing the work for me.

Funny thing no one seemed to care when Kobe had nobody everybody would just say "he cant win without Shaq" once again.......DOUBLE STANDARDS. :pity:

kArSoN RyDaH
04-06-2010, 07:01 PM
also what people tend to forget about is that the lakers led by KOBE were first in the WEST before acquiring gasol.

ShadyOne
04-06-2010, 07:17 PM
if im not mistaken didnt lebron have mo williams who was an all star last year? not to mention big z who is a two time all star...and was an all star 2 years before lebron got smashed in the finals
ding ding ding. lebron had an all star in mo and still couldnt produce with a star on his side last year.
this year he has that same team plus shaq and jamison. so when he doesnt win it this year im dying to hear what arguments you laker/kobe haters have to come up with..lakers have 2 All Star players pau and kobe. cavs are filled with all star talent. so dont give me all that he doesnt have an all star by his side bullcrap. lebron had an all star when he went to the championship and an all star last year when they got smashed by the magic..

This just can't be serious. Mo Williams, I don't care if you told me he won an MVP, a 40 time all-star, whatever, he is a very suspect #2 for a championship team. He also did very little during the playoffs. Big Z has never been a great player, and has been even less so the last few years. And don't even tell me Shaq is anywhere near Laker, or even Heat levels. He isn't enough. And the rest of the lineup isn't very impressive. Jamison isn't a great player, never has been...

Look at Kobe. A great player no doubt. But he had GREAT #2 guys, hell, him and Shaq were 1a and 1b. And Gasol, well, he is a GREAT team player, all around player, does everything you need whenever you need it. Dont even try and tell us that Lebron had anything near either of those guys. Then, talk about guys like Ariza, Odom, Fisher, etc...

I'm not being a Kobe hater, a Laker hater, a Lebron lover, or anything else. Just being a realist. Lebron does more with less than anyone I've seen. Kind of like the Peyton Manning of the NBA...

tredigs
04-06-2010, 07:18 PM
if im not mistaken didnt lebron have mo williams who was an all star last year? not to mention big z who is a two time all star...and was an all star 2 years before lebron got smashed in the finals
ding ding ding. lebron had an all star in mo and still couldnt produce with a star on his side last year.
this year he has that same team plus shaq and jamison. so when he doesnt win it this year im dying to hear what arguments you laker/kobe haters have to come up with..lakers have 2 All Star players pau and kobe. cavs are filled with all star talent. so dont give me all that he doesnt have an all star by his side bullcrap. lebron had an all star when he went to the championship and an all star last year when they got smashed by the magic..

HAhahahahha... this is rich. So you're comparing Mo Williams -- a ONE time all star who was not only not picked as a reserve, but he wasn't even the first injury replacement either -- in a weak eastern conference and a dinosaur version of Zydrunas Ilgauaskas (who was an all star in a 2003-5 league that had no other decent centers other than Yao and Shaq) as his "superstar compliments" ???

Name me ONE championship team in the last 25 years that had worse complementary players than that Cavaliers finals team. ONE. I won't wait up...



Funny thing no one seemed to care when Kobe had nobody everybody would just say "he cant win without Shaq" once again.......DOUBLE STANDARDS. :pity:

Lebron took his cast of nobodies to the NBA finals. Kobe couldn't make it to the the western conference finals. There in lies the difference.


I'll agree his career accomplishments are untouchable and when Guokas said Dwight was better, he meant ability-wise and I agree with him on that. I think Shaq, Kareem, Hakeem, Robinson, Wilt, etc are all better than Bill Russell as well.

As for the competition he faced, Russell came into the league in the 1956-57 season and retired after the 1968-69 season, so the '69-72 centers don't apply to him. Of the remaining centers, only Wilt and Petit's names stand out to me; Dolph Schayes, Walt Bellamy, Jerry Lucas, Willis Reed, Elvin Hayes, Wes Unseld and Nate Thurmond are all subpar centers IMO.

The fact is Russell played 82 games against 8 teams (12 teams later) and of those teams, the players were mostly subpar players, short players, small players and not very athletically gifted (with the exception of a couple). In today's league, Russell would spend most of his days getting dunked on by guards and forwards bigger than him.

You just named three centers on the NBA 50th anniversary top 50 of all time list, and called them "sub par centers". We're talking perennial all stars, MVP winners, NBA champions as the leader of their team players here, and you are calling them "sub par".

I'm going to leave it at that. No point in continuing.

DCB/LAL
04-06-2010, 07:30 PM
Lebron took his cast of nobodies to the NBA finals. Kobe couldn't make it to the the western conference finals. There in lies the difference.

Playing in the West had no effect on that? They would of been a 5th seed in the East with the record they had in the West. Now had they been in the East and played the easier schedule they may of been even a higher seed than that....A.I was also able to take a team from the East to the Finals what happened after he went out West?

tredigs
04-06-2010, 07:36 PM
Playing in the West had no effect on that? They would of been a 5th seed in the East with the record they had in the West. Now had they been in the East and played the easier schedule they may of been even a higher seed than that....A.I was also able to take a team from the East to the Finals what happened after he went out West?

You're right. Kobe > Jordan > AI > Lebrick. He's a scrub.



[I love Laker fans and "ifs". Favorite word]

RadiantShot
04-06-2010, 07:43 PM
To whoever says that Kobe's more clutch, I agree. The only thing is..Lebron rarely ever let's it get to the point where he has to take a game-winning shot. Kobe's been in the league much longer than Lebron. We can have this discussion when both careers are over.

bbd24
04-06-2010, 07:45 PM
Lebron doesn't want old school anything. I think Lebron just wants to be a Celtic.

His wish may come true in just a little bit.

tdunk21
04-06-2010, 07:50 PM
also what people tend to forget about is that the lakers led by KOBE were first in the WEST before acquiring gasol.

and also kobe led lakers missed playoffs one season before acquiring gasol.....and kobe led lakers were never first in west until gasol got there....:pity:

2004 standings: http://espn.go.com/nba/standings/_/year/2004
2005 standings: http://espn.go.com/nba/standings/_/year/2005
2006 standings: http://espn.go.com/nba/standings/_/year/2006
2007 standings: http://espn.go.com/nba/standings/_/year/2007

so u r wrong.......

DCB/LAL
04-06-2010, 07:54 PM
You're right. Kobe > Jordan > AI > Lebrick. He's a scrub.



[I love Laker fans and "ifs". Favorite word]

Fine you want no "Ifs" Ill ask you did he win it all? So even as "great" as Lebron is he can't do it alone so he's no different than the rest.

DCB/LAL
04-06-2010, 07:56 PM
To whoever says that Kobe's more clutch, I agree. The only thing is..Lebron rarely ever let's it get to the point where he has to take a game-winning shot. Kobe's been in the league much longer than Lebron. We can have this discussion when both careers are over.

Oh of course he never lets it take for example the loss to the Celtics.....or when he he hit the game winner against Orlando but your right he never lets it get that close.



Do people seriously believe the Cavs are gonna blow everybody out in the Playoffs and their wont be any close games? Are people really that ingnorant?

RadiantShot
04-06-2010, 08:02 PM
Oh of course he never lets it take for example the loss to the Celtics.....or when he he hit the game winner against Orlando but your right he never lets it get that close.



Do people seriously believe the Cavs are gonna blow everybody out in the Playoffs and their wont be any close games? Are people really that ingnorant?

No, see that's the thing. Not to be cocky or anything, but that's why I believe The Cavs won't win a championship. The Playoffs are full of dramatic last second shots. Or at least last second plays. Lebron's going to have the ball in his hand the majority of the time, and if he can't make the clutch plays, they're going to lose. Just like how they lost to Orlando last year.

Jahari Kavi
04-06-2010, 08:16 PM
Playing in the West had no effect on that? They would of been a 5th seed in the East with the record they had in the West. Now had they been in the East and played the easier schedule they may of been even a higher seed than that....A.I was also able to take a team from the East to the Finals what happened after he went out West?

Great point. AI had a way better cast in Denver and could not get out of the first round. But somehow, he lead those scrubs on the Sixers to the finals out of the east. Is AI better than Lebron because he did the same thing Lebron did with even less talent? For the most part, who ever came out of the east from 2000-2003 and 2006/2007 were winners by default. The east was absolute garbage and nobody can deny that.

I disagree...that Pistons team was a couple of years removed from being world champions and the season before the cavs almost beat them (when they still had ben wallace) in 6 games...Pistons were one of the top 3 or 4 teams in the league during their reign. Furthermore the Sixers were the only team to beat the Lakers that season in the playoffs and came close to stealing a couple of more games in that series...So if the east was "garbage" that season then going by your logic, the west had to be worst, since no one out the West beat the Lakers during that run.......The point is that Lebron's style of play will bring the "most" out of his supporting cast. I personally always would say Magic > MJ for that very reason, but I get crazy looks for suggesting such a notion, because MJ's amazing abilities as a scorer. It basically comes down to what you prefer as a basketball fan and student of the game. Personally I like a guy who can get the most out of the least amount of talent for several reasons....anywho, jus my 2 cents.

Jahari Kavi
04-06-2010, 08:18 PM
doesnt every player need another star caliber player to dominate? i mean name an all time great who didnt have another superstar all star player next to them? plz name one..

See the man in my avatar, year 1994...............another reason why I think he's top 5 all time, but that's another conversation

Raph12
04-06-2010, 08:24 PM
You just named three centers on the NBA 50th anniversary top 50 of all time list, and called them "sub par centers". We're talking perennial all stars, MVP winners, NBA champions as the leader of their team players here, and you are calling them "sub par".

I'm going to leave it at that. No point in continuing.

Let me put it this way, they wouldn't make the revised list in 2010 and though their accomplishments are impressive, their abilities are not.

Russell faced weaker competition without a doubt and his statistics are very deceptive.

RadiantShot
04-06-2010, 08:31 PM
^
That.

In 25-30 Years, people will be talking about how Dwight Howard should've been in the H.O.F., and some big-shot superstar after him will be frowned upon on this forum. ;)

tredigs
04-06-2010, 08:37 PM
Let me put it this way, they wouldn't make the revised list in 2010 and though their accomplishments are impressive, their abilities are not.

Russell faced weaker competition without a doubt and his statistics are very deceptive.

You can extrapolate what his stats would've looked like when you adjust for pace, etc. And after you do so, they are still insanely impressive.

The competition he faced was in NO way weaker than the competition Dwight faces. Much like this is the weakest pro boxing has ever been at heavyweight, this is currently the weakest the NBA has ever been at center. By a wide margin.

All I can tell you is that you're 100% wrong about their abilities not being impressive. But it's still the age old fallacy of trying to directly compare players from ages past to players now. Trainers/nutrition/coaching/advancement of the style of play all change as the generations pass, but all things being equal? Those are all time greats.

You won't agree because you love Dwight more than your own mother, but all I can say is that to anyone who knows their **** when it comes to the history of the game, you look foolish calling those players sub-par.

kArSoN RyDaH
04-06-2010, 09:22 PM
and also kobe led lakers missed playoffs one season before acquiring gasol.....and kobe led lakers were never first in west until gasol got there....:pity:

2004 standings: http://espn.go.com/nba/standings/_/year/2004
2005 standings: http://espn.go.com/nba/standings/_/year/2005
2006 standings: http://espn.go.com/nba/standings/_/year/2006
2007 standings: http://espn.go.com/nba/standings/_/year/2007

so u r wrong.......

why dont you check the 2008 standings and look at the record the lakers had that season before they acquired gasol. they were #1 out west without gasol so get outta heree...

kArSoN RyDaH
04-06-2010, 09:24 PM
This just can't be serious. Mo Williams, I don't care if you told me he won an MVP, a 40 time all-star, whatever, he is a very suspect #2 for a championship team. He also did very little during the playoffs. Big Z has never been a great player, and has been even less so the last few years. And don't even tell me Shaq is anywhere near Laker, or even Heat levels. He isn't enough. And the rest of the lineup isn't very impressive. Jamison isn't a great player, never has been...

Look at Kobe. A great player no doubt. But he had GREAT #2 guys, hell, him and Shaq were 1a and 1b. And Gasol, well, he is a GREAT team player, all around player, does everything you need whenever you need it. Dont even try and tell us that Lebron had anything near either of those guys. Then, talk about guys like Ariza, Odom, Fisher, etc...

I'm not being a Kobe hater, a Laker hater, a Lebron lover, or anything else. Just being a realist. Lebron does more with less than anyone I've seen. Kind of like the Peyton Manning of the NBA...



okay so now we change standards for players who have made it to the all star game.. okay i see where this is going im not even going to bother with you. you guys are terrible... :facepalm:

kArSoN RyDaH
04-06-2010, 09:27 PM
See the man in my avatar, year 1994...............another reason why I think he's top 5 all time, but that's another conversation

im sorry, i cant make out that face and i dont know who that is.. who is it?

DCB/LAL
04-06-2010, 09:33 PM
im sorry, i cant make out that face and i dont know who that is.. who is it?

Thats Hakeem.

kArSoN RyDaH
04-06-2010, 09:36 PM
Thats Hakeem.

okay that was my first guesss lol. thanks .

tdunk21
04-06-2010, 09:38 PM
why dont you check the 2008 standings and look at the record the lakers had that season before they acquired gasol. they were #1 out west without gasol so get outta heree...

On February 1, 2008, Gasol was traded to the Los Angeles Lakers along with a 2010 second round draft pick for Kwame Brown, Javaris Crittenton, Aaron McKie, the rights to Marc Gasol (Pau's younger brother), and 2008 and 2010 first round draft picks.[18] Albeit, there has been a bit of controversy surrounding the trade. Chris Wallace denied in an ESPN article that he had been ordered by owner Michael Heisley to make the Grizzlies more attractive to a potential buyer. Heisley has been trying to sell the franchise for two years. Wallace said, "No one put pressure on me to do this, and Michael Heisley has actually been reluctant to move Pau." He also said that they had been "trolling" the waters for a while and dealt with a number of teams. He selected the Lakers deal because "it didn't get any better than this."[18] When Gasol departed the Grizzlies, he held twelve franchise records, including games played, minutes played, field goals made and attempted, free throws made and attempted, offensive, defensive, and total rebounds, blocked shots, turnovers, and points. Per game statistics, he leads Memphis in defensive and total rebounds along with blocked shots.[19] On February 5, he made his first Lakers appearance in a game against the New Jersey Nets, during which he scored 24 points and had 12 rebounds in a 105-90 win over the Nets.[20][21] On March 14, Gasol sprained his ankle in a game against the New Orleans Hornets, stepping on the foot of teammate Vladimir Radmanović in the first quarter.[22] Gasol was expected to miss the remaining three games of the Lakers' road trip after x-rays came up negative.[23] Gasol returned to the starting lineup on April 2 against the Portland Trail Blazers and played nearly thirty-two minutes, registering 10 points, six rebounds and seven assists.[24] He admitted to feeling limited with the swelling in his ankle still present.[24] Gasol helped the Lakers FINISH the regular season with the best record in the Western Conference (57-25), with him in the starting lineup the Lakers went 22-5. Kobe Bryant has also stated that playing with Gasol clicked from the start...............Source: WIKI

how many times should i prove u wrong and yet u still comeback with some lame explanation......gasol played 27 games for the lakers that season where the lakers closed the season by the best record 22-5...so lakers had to be 35-20 in the west.....which was not the best in the west....

DCB/LAL
04-06-2010, 09:40 PM
On February 1, 2008, Gasol was traded to the Los Angeles Lakers along with a 2010 second round draft pick for Kwame Brown, Javaris Crittenton, Aaron McKie, the rights to Marc Gasol (Pau's younger brother), and 2008 and 2010 first round draft picks.[18] Albeit, there has been a bit of controversy surrounding the trade. Chris Wallace denied in an ESPN article that he had been ordered by owner Michael Heisley to make the Grizzlies more attractive to a potential buyer. Heisley has been trying to sell the franchise for two years. Wallace said, "No one put pressure on me to do this, and Michael Heisley has actually been reluctant to move Pau." He also said that they had been "trolling" the waters for a while and dealt with a number of teams. He selected the Lakers deal because "it didn't get any better than this."[18] When Gasol departed the Grizzlies, he held twelve franchise records, including games played, minutes played, field goals made and attempted, free throws made and attempted, offensive, defensive, and total rebounds, blocked shots, turnovers, and points. Per game statistics, he leads Memphis in defensive and total rebounds along with blocked shots.[19] On February 5, he made his first Lakers appearance in a game against the New Jersey Nets, during which he scored 24 points and had 12 rebounds in a 105-90 win over the Nets.[20][21] On March 14, Gasol sprained his ankle in a game against the New Orleans Hornets, stepping on the foot of teammate Vladimir Radmanović in the first quarter.[22] Gasol was expected to miss the remaining three games of the Lakers' road trip after x-rays came up negative.[23] Gasol returned to the starting lineup on April 2 against the Portland Trail Blazers and played nearly thirty-two minutes, registering 10 points, six rebounds and seven assists.[24] He admitted to feeling limited with the swelling in his ankle still present.[24] Gasol helped the Lakers FINISH the regular season with the best record in the Western Conference (57-25), with him in the starting lineup the Lakers went 22-5. Kobe Bryant has also stated that playing with Gasol clicked from the start...............Source: WIKI

how many times should i prove u wrong and yet u still comeback with some lame explanation......gasol played 27 games for the lakers that season where the lakers closed the season by the best record 23-4...so lakers had to be 34-21 in the west.....which was not the best in the west....

I believe LA was the 1 seed before Bynum got hurt, when he got hurt they ended falling to 4th I believe thus forcing the Lakers to try and make a trade in which they did and aquired Pau Gasol. So YES LAL was a 1 seed even before Gasol that year so you are wrong.

tdunk21
04-06-2010, 09:43 PM
I believe LA was the 1 seed before Bynum got hurt, when he got hurt they ended falling to 4th I believe thus forcing the Lakers to try and make a trade in which they did and aquired Pau Gasol. So YES LAL was a 1 seed even without Gasol that year so you are wrong.

fell to the 4th....did not hold the 1st spot forever that season....

DCB/LAL
04-06-2010, 10:11 PM
and also kobe led lakers missed playoffs one season before acquiring gasol.....and kobe led lakers were never first in west until gasol got there....:pity:

2004 standings: http://espn.go.com/nba/standings/_/year/2004
2005 standings: http://espn.go.com/nba/standings/_/year/2005
2006 standings: http://espn.go.com/nba/standings/_/year/2006
2007 standings: http://espn.go.com/nba/standings/_/year/2007

so u r wrong.......


fell to the 4th....did not hold the 1st spot forever that season....

Like I said you sir are wrong, they were in first before Gasol whether or not they kept was not what you posted your post read "lakers were never first in west until gasol got there" and I am simply pointing out that you are wrong.


Really its non-debatable so idk why your trying to argue it......You were Wrong.

ShadyOne
04-06-2010, 10:21 PM
okay so now we change standards for players who have made it to the all star game.. okay i see where this is going im not even going to bother with you. you guys are terrible... :facepalm:

Nope, you are terrible. Save that facepalm for yourself...

Lets just take a look at Kobe's "#2's" playoff numbers...

Shaq in 00- 30.7ppg/15.4rpg/3.1apg/2.4bpg
Shaq in 01- 30.4ppg/15.4rpg/3.2apg/2.4bpg
Shaq in 02- 28.5ppg/12.6rpg/2.8apg/2.5bpg
Gasol in 09- 18.3ppg/10.8rpg/2.5apg/2.0bpg

And figuring you are a Lakers fan, I am assuming I don't really need to tell you how much better Gasol is, than those already good numbers say he is. And seeing how Shaq was the MVP of the finals 3 years in a row, it is fair to say Kobe was the #2....

So now heres your chance to show me how Lebron has had as good a supporting cast as Kobe. And I am sure you won't be able to do so. So please save us all the chance of making you look bad, and stop...

DCB/LAL
04-06-2010, 10:46 PM
Nope, you are terrible. Save that facepalm for yourself...

Lets just take a look at Kobe's "#2's" playoff numbers...

Shaq in 00- 30.7ppg/15.4rpg/3.1apg/2.4bpg
Shaq in 01- 30.4ppg/15.4rpg/3.2apg/2.4bpg
Shaq in 02- 28.5ppg/12.6rpg/2.8apg/2.5bpg
Gasol in 09- 18.3ppg/10.8rpg/2.5apg/2.0bpg

And figuring you are a Lakers fan, I am assuming I don't really need to tell you how much better Gasol is, than those already good numbers say he is. And seeing how Shaq was the MVP of the finals 3 years in a row, it is fair to say Kobe was the #2....

So now heres your chance to show me how Lebron has had as good a supporting cast as Kobe. And I am sure you won't be able to do so. So please save us all the chance of making you look bad, and stop...

Say what you want but as "Great" as Lebron is he still hasn't won the championship without a number 2 so he's on the same boat as the rest as of now.

evadatam5150
04-06-2010, 11:04 PM
Idk but yesterday when the Cavs turned it up and played playoff type basketball the Celtics could not stop them I was surprised.

I can say maybe I was wrong about the Cavs not having another notch but to my credit I did call the comeback.

Em the Cavs lost.. I don't know about you but if that extra notch means falling short of winning a game and LBJ settling for a long three instead of driving to the basket then yeah that was a nice extra gear they shifted into.. :clap:

Avenged
04-06-2010, 11:07 PM
This never ends. Should just rename the thread Kobe vs. Lebron because this has nothing to do with the Celtics anymore :laugh2:

Avenged
04-06-2010, 11:11 PM
Funny thing no one seemed to care when Kobe had nobody everybody would just say "he cant win without Shaq" once again.......DOUBLE STANDARDS. :pity:

I don't really agree with your statements on this thread to an extent.. but the double standard thing is right on!

JNA17
04-06-2010, 11:27 PM
why is this thread open? Mods what happened to no player A vs player B threads since this thread clearly turned into one? :pity:

Avenged
04-06-2010, 11:30 PM
why is this thread open? Mods what happened to no player A vs player B threads since this thread clearly turned into one? :pity:

Is Kobe player A? ;)

Stay_Swim
04-06-2010, 11:30 PM
So I will now ask the same question I asked the last time this cam about.

When, and it will happen, when the Cavaliers and LEBRICK JAMES again FAIL to win a Championship, what's Lebrick's excuse then?

He's got literally all the talent he could want around him. ala Antawn Jamison, Big Z, Mo Williams, Delonte West, JJ Hickson, a sharp shooter in Anthony Parker...

What then?

I would like to hear this now, before this actually happens so I can look back and laugh about how ridiculous this whole thread was. Because once again Lebrick James will fail to win a Championship.

And once again he will be acclaimed the "BEST PLAYER IN THE LEAGUE," even tho there are players like D-Wade who have been in the league just as long as Lebrick, and he has a ring. Oh yah thats right he had Shaq tho...:rolleyes:

Oh yah but I forgot players in the NBA don't play to win anymore, let alone play for Championships...:rolleyes::facepalm:

Avenged
04-06-2010, 11:34 PM
So I will now ask the same question I asked the last time this cam about.

When, and it will happen, when the Cavaliers and LEBRICK JAMES again FAIL to win a Championship, what's Lebrick's excuse then?

He's got literally all the talent he could want around him. ala Antawn Jamison, Big Z, Mo Williams, Delonte West, JJ Hickson, a sharp shooter in Anthony Parker...

What then?

I would like to hear this now, before this actually happens so I can look back and laugh about how ridiculous this whole thread was. Because once again Lebrick James will fail to win a Championship.

And once again he will be acclaimed the "BEST PLAYER IN THE LEAGUE," even tho there are players like D-Wade who have been in the league just as long as Lebrick, and he has a ring. Oh yah thats right he had Shaq tho...:rolleyes:

Oh yah but I forgot players in the NBA don't play to win anymore, let alone play for Championships...:rolleyes::facepalm:

Just let it go man. Don't get so worked up over it.

D-Leethal
04-06-2010, 11:35 PM
Celtics got sonned but Gallo tonight , will be funny to see what LBJ does to them in the playoffs, especially when Shaqs got his back

JNA17
04-06-2010, 11:39 PM
Is Kobe player A? ;)

no, the goat mark blount is player A and mike "god" james is player B

Chacarron
04-06-2010, 11:49 PM
I'm just cracking up at the fact that there's a direct correlation between people that can actually put together rational thoughts, and people who understand that LBJ is a better player than Kobe.

Radiants Dwight > Shaq example is perfect. Shaq has had the better career, and D. Howard is currently the better player. Simple as that. If you think that Kobe is still better than Lebron, then you also HAVE to believe that Shaq is currently the best center over Howard. I'd love to see that argument play out.

The frothing from the mouth Kobe posts about rings and "Lebrick" not having any just crack me up. Feel like we're trying to argue with a bunch of 7th graders. I'm assuming that's the case because all the smart Laker fans have accepted that Kobe is no longer the best player, but is still a great player on a great team, with a chance to repeat as champion. And that is enough for them.

Delusion's a hell of a drug.

That is what I'm talking about. Take two players who play similar roles and positions in their respective teams, and compare their careers and current status. There is no way one can say Kobe is better than Lebron today and not say that Shaq is better than Dwight. Therefore, it is only reasonable to say that Lebron is better than Kobe or any other player in the NBA for that matter. The fact that he hasn't won a ring yet has nothing to do with him being the best player or not because rings are ultimately won in a collective effort by the best team during the playoffs. As a Lakers fan, I can honestly say Lebron is the best player in the NBA and Kobe focuses more on rings because he knows that is the most important accolade in the NBA in measuring personal success.

BeantownBill
04-07-2010, 12:08 AM
I would love to see Shaq just eat Garnett.

He's such a little *****

All NBA players are *****es. The fact that they pose and shout and act like thugs is enough to make anyone laugh. It's ****ing basketball, already .. :laugh2:

Raph12
04-07-2010, 12:53 AM
You can extrapolate what his stats would've looked like when you adjust for pace, etc. And after you do so, they are still insanely impressive.

The competition he faced was in NO way weaker than the competition Dwight faces. Much like this is the weakest pro boxing has ever been at heavyweight, this is currently the weakest the NBA has ever been at center. By a wide margin.

All I can tell you is that you're 100% wrong about their abilities not being impressive. But it's still the age old fallacy of trying to directly compare players from ages past to players now. Trainers/nutrition/coaching/advancement of the style of play all change as the generations pass, but all things being equal? Those are all time greats.

You won't agree because you love Dwight more than your own mother, but all I can say is that to anyone who knows their **** when it comes to the history of the game, you look foolish calling those players sub-par.

They took a lot more shots back in those days and made a lot less, the pace was much faster than the pace in today's league and the players were that much worse. Hell shooting over 50% from the field would've given the player a god-like status... The competition Dwight faces today may be weak at the center position, but the other 4 positions are so much better than they were, that comparing the two eras is just idiotic. Blocking a bigs' shot in today's league is much harder because most of those shots are taken from mid-to-long range and then the guys penetrating to the basket are much more athletic then they were in those days. I'd honestly love to see Russell try to stop Lebron from finishing over him, the guys in today's league are so much more athletic and talented, that I feel stupid for even talking about it.

When a former NBA player, who played in that era and currently watches today's games, says that today's league is much more competitive, I'll believe it (Matt Guokas).


Btw I do agree that today's players have more advantages with their "trainers/nutrition/coaching/advancement of the style of play" but if you take the 1960s Bill Russell and put him in today's league (without today's advantages) then he'd be a solid role player at best, but if you take the 2010 Dwight Howard as is and put him in the 60s Celtics, he'd go down as one of the best to have ever played the game.

kArSoN RyDaH
04-07-2010, 12:58 AM
On February 1, 2008, Gasol was traded to the Los Angeles Lakers along with a 2010 second round draft pick for Kwame Brown, Javaris Crittenton, Aaron McKie, the rights to Marc Gasol (Pau's younger brother), and 2008 and 2010 first round draft picks.[18] Albeit, there has been a bit of controversy surrounding the trade. Chris Wallace denied in an ESPN article that he had been ordered by owner Michael Heisley to make the Grizzlies more attractive to a potential buyer. Heisley has been trying to sell the franchise for two years. Wallace said, "No one put pressure on me to do this, and Michael Heisley has actually been reluctant to move Pau." He also said that they had been "trolling" the waters for a while and dealt with a number of teams. He selected the Lakers deal because "it didn't get any better than this."[18] When Gasol departed the Grizzlies, he held twelve franchise records, including games played, minutes played, field goals made and attempted, free throws made and attempted, offensive, defensive, and total rebounds, blocked shots, turnovers, and points. Per game statistics, he leads Memphis in defensive and total rebounds along with blocked shots.[19] On February 5, he made his first Lakers appearance in a game against the New Jersey Nets, during which he scored 24 points and had 12 rebounds in a 105-90 win over the Nets.[20][21] On March 14, Gasol sprained his ankle in a game against the New Orleans Hornets, stepping on the foot of teammate Vladimir Radmanović in the first quarter.[22] Gasol was expected to miss the remaining three games of the Lakers' road trip after x-rays came up negative.[23] Gasol returned to the starting lineup on April 2 against the Portland Trail Blazers and played nearly thirty-two minutes, registering 10 points, six rebounds and seven assists.[24] He admitted to feeling limited with the swelling in his ankle still present.[24] Gasol helped the Lakers FINISH the regular season with the best record in the Western Conference (57-25), with him in the starting lineup the Lakers went 22-5. Kobe Bryant has also stated that playing with Gasol clicked from the start...............Source: WIKI

how many times should i prove u wrong and yet u still comeback with some lame explanation......gasol played 27 games for the lakers that season where the lakers closed the season by the best record 22-5...so lakers had to be 35-20 in the west.....which was not the best in the west....

i stand partially corrected. the lakers were #1 before bynum got injured then soon thereafter went on a losing streak then they acquired gasol when they were 4th in the west. then went on to take the #1 seed

stawka
04-07-2010, 01:09 AM
I'm not gonna read all 14 pages, but WTF happened to this thread? How did it somehow become a Kobe>MJ>LeBron>God thread?

What has the thread title or anything got to do with the Lakers or Kobe?

The Final Boss
04-07-2010, 03:13 PM
well im from los angeles so that should explain the california teams on my sig. and if that was the case and everyone repped the college they went to you wouldnt have much college football fans at all. so i dont see what your trying to imply? i attend university of hawaii but that shouldnt matter wwhat teams i am fans of. ive beeen a yankee fan since 2nd grade when i had to do a report on babe ruth so that explains the one outlier. :rolleyes:

So, society is so screwed up that people rep a schools football team, not their educational institution as a whole?:facepalm:It's gotten to the point where a school is only regarded for its athletic department?

Furthermore, I highly recommend the University of Hawaii revise its method of instruction because your writing is well below the collegiate level. :facepalm:

The Final Boss
04-07-2010, 03:17 PM
Wow really? So if someone doesn't go to UT or Florida or Alabama etc.... you cant cheer for them because you didn't attend that U?

Exactly... I went to Inglewood High School. I'm sorry to inform you, but I'm not going to rep your high school. It's the same logic, Broseph. :facepalm:

Corey
04-07-2010, 03:24 PM
This thread got very off-topic.

Sorry guys.