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MGB
03-29-2010, 08:55 PM
He was never that great.

He was good, I guess, but save for one year at age 28 (most players' peak season), he just wasn't too good. Average, sure. Very good on some nights, but average as an average. And nobody bothered to pay attention.

Well, some did. John Hollinger. Otis Smith. Various bloggers, sages and scribes. But beyond that? Hedo Turkoglu(notes) was on TV a lot, and for some reason this changes things. He was on TV constantly starting from his time as a youngster with the Sacramento Kings (who were put on national TV more than anyone else in the early part of the 21st century), through a spell with the Spurs and then onto Dwight Howard's(notes) Orlando Magic. It made a difference.

Then he played 24 playoff games for the Magic last season, most of them not on NBA TV, and man? That was all she wrote.

Hedo never left our TVs, and because what's on TV must by extension be good and valid and worth our time, Hedo must be good. Or great, even.

To the tune of two teams — two general managers who had received more fawning praise than any two other general managers in the entire NBA that I can think of — trying to toss an extended, guaranteed deal that would pay Hedo Turkoglu eight figures a year to play basketball on their teams until his mid-30s.

And, beyond the TV thing, I still can't tell you why.

Besides summertime ennui, ego, the absence of the "advanced" (really, it's not) statistical starter set, and, well ... I've to stop making excuses. Signing Hedo Turkoglu was a terrible move, and anyone with their head on straight last summer knew it.

I rarely have my head on straight, but that didn't preclude me from warning about this to no end last July. The guy, on his career, averages about 15 1/2 points with nine combined rebounds and assists when he plays 36 (starters) minutes. Combine that with his iffy, at best, defense? The pace in which his teams have played? And you have an average player.

This isn't to excuse the dropoff in production. Turkoglu has been terrible this season. Absolutely awful on defense, below average offensively (about 12 points, four boards, four assists in 31 minutes), and he's rightfully drawn the ire of Raptors fans less than a full season into his first year with Toronto.

(Well, he drew their ire less than a full month into his first season, but the enmity is starting to run hot and heavy at this point.)

So now, fans and countrymen and followers and fanatics, can you begin to understand just how debilitating an influence Hedo is? No? Well, then please read on. Eric did fantastic work with this post.

This can't help but get worse. Hedo isn't daffy, like Stephon Marbury(notes) was, so we won't see that level of weirdness. But he's also not athletic, overrated and quite clearly unmotivated. And Stephon, for all his faults, was still a pretty productive player a couple years before his contract went pop.

Turk? He's shot, right now. And he'll make $12 million in 2014. 2014! Raptor fans, almost to an attendee, would drop a tenner in a hat during every home game from here until the end of the season (playoffs, stop laughing, included) if it meant that money could go toward some sort of buyout for Hedo — and we're in 2010. What's this mess going to look like in 2014?

Remember, he was never very good to begin with, and though Turkoglu is tall and can sometimes shoot, even this guy at his absolute best from the ages of 31-to-35 will be nothing but rather awful. Relative the contract. And that's the best-case scenario.

And yet the team has another $43.8 million to pay him over the next four years. It's such a colossal bust that it almost seals Raptor GM Bryan Colangelo's take in our eyes. I don't care if the Raps are a 70-win team despite Hedo's presence, Turk's contract alone is worth a deciding opinion. And if it isn't enough for you, darlings, consider that Jose Calderon(notes) and Andrea Bargnani(notes) will average nearly $20 million a year combined for the next three seasons, with Bargs' terrible deal moving toward 2015.

No cap room, no promise, no hope, and that's not even getting into the Chris Bosh(notes) situation. Would you like me to? If you're a fan of a team that could sign Bosh this summer, are you afraid his particular well has been poisoned? Because his play over the last month suggests it.

It starts with being smart. It always has. And the Raptors just didn't have that last summer. The Trail Blazers didn't, either, but they were given a reprieve because Hedo wanted to stay somewhat close to the Eastern seaboard.

As nasty as it is right now — with Hedo stealing money in the first year of his contract, blaming fans, playing terribly, and partying the night after calling off sick for work — this will only get worse. Even if the guy shapes up and gets everything right.

"Everything right." I mean it. Even that won't be enough. Do you know why?

Because he's not that great.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/blog/ball_dont_lie/post/Hedo-Turkoglu-has-already-crapped-out-in-Toronto;_ylt=AoOcMIZ649M3AultDjP0CXq8vLYF?urn=nba, 230860

Pretty good read here. I gues I didn't realize just how bad off the Raptors are for the foreseeable future... They'll be in cap hell for a while now and I can't imagine Bosh staying there and rotting away with really no hope of adding anyone else to make them contenders.

So after this season, they'll have like 30-35MM tied up between Calderon, Bargs, and Hedo? Subtract Bosh from that team and it's gonna be an ugly couple of years, hopefully BC can work some magic.

:facepalm:

Hellcrooner
03-29-2010, 09:00 PM
They should try to somehow convince stern o let them voidhis contract given he lied and said wa sinjured and he wasnt.

dwadefan03
03-29-2010, 09:02 PM
i dont agree that he was never that good but i do agree that he shouldnt have gotten that contract at 28 years old

wileyisTOFU
03-29-2010, 09:06 PM
Raptors fans should put a Bloody Horse head in Hedo's bed, although thats probably a couple felonies.

Strumpy
03-29-2010, 09:16 PM
Raptors fans should put a Bloody Horse head in Hedo's bed, although thats probably a couple felonies.

But it would soooooo be worth it.

clutchski
03-29-2010, 09:19 PM
He's playing great in the 4th quarter right now.

clutchski
03-29-2010, 09:20 PM
Raptors fans should put a Bloody Horse head in Hedo's bed, although thats probably a couple felonies.

How about a dead tuna under his bed. That might just get a fine :)

BradyIsTheMan12
03-29-2010, 09:27 PM
So glad he decided to not come to Portland.

ink
03-29-2010, 09:55 PM
Meh. Ball Don't Lie is a pretty lousy sports writer. Barely above blogger.

Draco
03-29-2010, 10:12 PM
^ Don't shoot the messenger

ink
03-29-2010, 10:18 PM
^ Don't shoot the messenger

I've been saying the same thing for a while. He's a Toronto based blogger who got a gig on yahoo. He does fantasy rankings for them and he is always hypercritical of his home team. So, yeah, shoot the messenger.

He paints the darkest picture possible about the situation. Sure it's been a major disappointment but he spins everything to the dark side. lol. Ball Don't Lie lie all the time.

RaptorizedKevin
03-29-2010, 10:21 PM
He's playing great in the 4th quarter right now.

he played one good 4th quater. dont say hes been playing great. he hasnt. spurts of good games arent enough it has to be all the time.

0nekhmer
03-29-2010, 11:09 PM
I wonder if teams out there still want Turk. I think he'd excel on another team like Philly, Detroit, portland, warriors, warriors, and best in orlando

Ragun
03-29-2010, 11:16 PM
he could excel on a team where he handles the ball. i still think he can excel in toronto but not when bosh and calderon are on the floor.

Kakaroach
03-29-2010, 11:17 PM
I was so hoping this signing was gonna work out for both sides. But as of right now, this was the worst off-season acquisition. Thats including how bad Jefferson has been for the Spurs. It could work down the road, but right now that is one ugly contract.

bomber0104
03-29-2010, 11:22 PM
I dont get how a smart GM like Colangelo could **** up like that... I could see this coming from a mile away. Yes, I know thats not saying much

topdog
03-29-2010, 11:36 PM
So glad he decided to not come to Portland.

He might've been good in Portland. Turk needs to be the ballhandler to make things happen.

Toronto's not that bad though aside from the Turk contract. Calderon is an excellent passer, Bargs is nice shooter and Bellini has potential to be pretty amazing as well. They need a solid big there - I mean one who actually bangs.

RocketsRule
03-29-2010, 11:39 PM
I was so hoping this signing was gonna work out for both sides. But as of right now, this was the worst off-season acquisition. Thats including how bad Jefferson has been for the Spurs. It could work down the road, but right now that is one ugly contract.

Agreed. Hopefully in the foreseeable future he can pick up his game a bit, but as of right now thing look very, very bleak for the Raptors.

At this point I'd be surprised if Bosh stayed with the Raptors now... Their situation does not look like it will improve that much in the future.

Tymer
03-29-2010, 11:40 PM
I was very disappointed when BC got Hedo and even extended Bargs Contract.

I was here hoping for something in the 2010 FA class but it seems BC is more interested in the 2011 class for some reason.

Worst part is Hedo is the biggest FA we ever have had.

jackdawson
03-29-2010, 11:42 PM
Give him a gun! Raptors will be allowed to void his contract tomorrow morning.

RaffyBoy
03-29-2010, 11:47 PM
I dont get how a smart GM like Colangelo could **** up like that... I could see this coming from a mile away. Yes, I know thats not saying much

colangelo was just trying to do what ever was possible to show bosh that he wants to build around him and he wants to make the team better. and turk was the hottest free agent out there. however, it really did not pay off in the end.

GoatMilk
03-29-2010, 11:47 PM
Maggette for Turkoglu?

smuffins353
03-30-2010, 12:07 AM
Bosh for Scola

mark it down gentlemen

Eagles4Lyfe
03-30-2010, 12:20 AM
great it goes from turk to bosh leaving these guys never know when to stop

RaffyBoy
03-30-2010, 12:21 AM
Maggette for Turkoglu?

deal!!

ink
03-30-2010, 12:21 AM
Maggette for Turkoglu?

No thanks.

BradyIsTheMan12
03-30-2010, 12:30 AM
He might've been good in Portland. Turk needs to be the ballhandler to make things happen.

Toronto's not that bad though aside from the Turk contract. Calderon is an excellent passer, Bargs is nice shooter and Bellini has potential to be pretty amazing as well. They need a solid big there - I mean one who actually bangs.

That's why it wouldn't work. Roy plays better with the ball in his hands and is the creator in our offense. Luckily Miller doesn't need to score night in and night out to be effective so Roy and him can alternate with that duty.

JermanJaysFan
03-30-2010, 01:24 AM
Maggette for Turkoglu?

I don't think Don Nelson is aware that there are guys that tall playing basketball.

kidfury
03-30-2010, 01:32 AM
I wonder if teams out there still want Turk. I think he'd excel on another team like Philly, Detroit, portland, warriors, warriors, and best in orlando

Plz I hope some other teams are interested in him. An unathletic and underachieving SF who fakes a tummy ache to miss a game and then goes partying a couple hrs later and is paid $10 million a yr, what's there to possibly not like? I think Hedo has a LONG way to go before he becomes a fan favorite in Toronto.

-Kobe24-TJ19-
03-30-2010, 01:38 AM
I feel bad for the raptors

at least 3 more years with hedo if you can trade him at the final year of his contract

bad contracts suck

-Kobe24-TJ19-
03-30-2010, 01:39 AM
I don't think Don Nelson is aware that there are guys that tall playing basketball.

:laugh:

Raph12
03-30-2010, 01:44 AM
Off-Season talk: "WITHOUT HEDO THE MAGIC ARE DOOMED!!!" - "HE WAS THEIR MVP IN THE PLAYOFFS" - "THE MAGIC WILL REGRET NOT RESIGNING HEDO" - "THE RAPTORS ARE NOW ELITE"

Right. :rolleyes:

ldc62
03-30-2010, 01:48 AM
Off-Season talk: "WITHOUT HEDO THE MAGIC ARE DOOMED!!!" - "HE WAS THEIR MVP IN THE PLAYOFFS" - "THE MAGIC WILL REGRET NOT RESIGNING HEDO" - "THE RAPTORS ARE NOW ELITE"

Right. :rolleyes:

Who the **** said that? Rick Kamla?

clutchski
03-30-2010, 02:01 AM
he played one good 4th quater. dont say hes been playing great. he hasnt. spurts of good games arent enough it has to be all the time.

obviously??? All I said was that he was currently playing well in the 4th quarter..

Raph12
03-30-2010, 02:17 AM
Who the **** said that? Rick Kamla?

Each and every Raps fan on PSD.

And most of the other guys had them in 5th behind Atlanta, some had them ahead of the Hawks (I had them at 9th for the record).

Dol-Fan
03-30-2010, 02:44 AM
Each and every Raps fan on PSD.

And most of the other guys had them in 5th behind Atlanta, some had them ahead of the Hawks (I had them at 9th for the record).

Wrong. A lot of Raps fans (including myself) questioned the Hedo signing and the necessity for having two primary ball-handlers in the starting line-up (he and Calderon). People just remember the ignorant ones because they are prevalent. I had them finishing 6th-7th which they were right on pace for before Bosh's injury.

Not too many people had ATL being as dominant as they have been this year. They were a 47-win team last year and some people questioned the move for Jamal Crawford.

mr_relevant
03-30-2010, 02:46 AM
Raptors are financially ****ed right now...

Raph12
03-30-2010, 02:59 AM
Wrong. A lot of Raps fans (including myself) questioned the Hedo signing and the necessity for having two primary ball-handlers in the starting line-up (he and Calderon). People just remember the ignorant ones because they are prevalent. I had them finishing 6th-7th which they were right on pace for before Bosh's injury.

Not too many people had ATL being as dominant as they have been this year. They were a 47-win team last year and some people questioned the move for Jamal Crawford.

I don't want to toot my own horn, but I had Atlanta and Boston battling it out for #3/4 (praising them for picking up Crawford all along), Cleveland and Orlando battling it out for #1 (I'll admit I had the Magic at #1 in most of my rankings) and TO ranked 9th because I'm a Magic fan and I hated Hedo and knew what he brings to the game and didn't believe he made them better.

I'll revisit some of my older posts to see all of my posts before the season after June.

Hellcrooner
03-30-2010, 03:01 AM
Raptors are financially ****ed right now...

I dont think they will have much problem into selling Spurs, Rockets or Mavs into some kind of sign and trade for bosh in wich they have to carry with Hedos COntract or Calderons.

Dol-Fan
03-30-2010, 03:57 AM
I don't want to toot my own horn, but I had Atlanta and Boston battling it out for #3/4 (praising them for picking up Crawford all along), Cleveland and Orlando battling it out for #1 (I'll admit I had the Magic at #1 in most of my rankings) and TO ranked 9th because I'm a Magic fan and I hated Hedo and knew what he brings to the game and didn't believe he made them better.

I'll revisit some of my older posts to see all of my posts before the season after June.

I'm not so much arguing you on the Hawks point but you unfairly grouping Raps fans into one lump of retards.

DitchDat
03-30-2010, 05:04 AM
He is overpaid, he's not as good as people think and he's unmotivated, but he couldn't be misused more as a player. Toronto views him as a wing player, while he should be running the point forward slot somewhere. Not saying this makes up for his lack of effort, but he's in a system where he cannot thrive. He still doesn't deserve the money though, and Toronto has really bottled itself up.

MagicDojo
03-30-2010, 08:38 AM
http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/sports_bianchi/

So it turns out Otis Smith knew what he was doing when he offered turk a 3 year contract with a team option in the 3rd year.

Raph12
03-30-2010, 09:54 AM
I'm not so much arguing you on the Hawks point but you unfairly grouping Raps fans into one lump of retards.

I know, but I did want to single those fans out that voted the Raps into the ECFs. They were being stupid and ignorant saying "oh we could beat the Cavs and even the Magic now that we have their best player (Hedo)" and etc, so I'm just laughing to myself now and felt like I should bring it back up to see if any of those guys show.

Ragun
03-30-2010, 10:06 AM
No thanks.

really? we get rid of turks contract.

i would take maggette over turkoglu any day of the week.

clehmun
03-30-2010, 10:15 AM
really? we get rid of turks contract.

i would take maggette over turkoglu any day of the week.

maggette's contract is just as bad.

comet_10
03-30-2010, 10:31 AM
i am just glad he is no longer in orlando, they are always on free to air in australia. his end of game decision making (that he got praised for!) like jack up a contested 3 with 20 on the shot clock almost made me break the tv.

he cant dribble! dont know where people got this idea he really cant do it that well.
didnt like the contract, maybe if he peaked at 25 yrs then give him the contract (personally hes not a 10 a year guy)

what will he be like JAMES POSEY big waste of cap space (only in NOH good at his previous stops)

mr_relevant
03-30-2010, 11:07 AM
...and now we know that the Magic were right by not resigning him for big bucks

Chronz
03-30-2010, 11:24 AM
No thanks.

Why not?

Sadds The Gr8
03-30-2010, 11:42 AM
Maggette for Turkoglu?

Are u serious? Hell, I'd even throw in Reggie Evans too!

D1JM
03-30-2010, 11:45 AM
I dont think they will have much problem into selling Spurs, Rockets or Mavs into some kind of sign and trade for bosh in wich they have to carry with Hedos COntract or Calderons.

spurs have Tony parker

Mavs have kidd and marion

Rockets have a pg and like ten SF

Ragun
03-30-2010, 01:41 PM
maggette's contract is just as bad.

o ****. i just noticed. so he signed a 6 year contract with a warriors? i thought it was a 5 year deal.

but still turkoglu doesnt fit our system. maggette would be better.

smith&wesson
03-30-2010, 02:01 PM
i really dont think he is that bad, his point average went down from 15 to 12. he also plays about 6 mins less then he did in orlando and his assist and rebounding numbers are about the same.

the team coaches have yet to find a way to use him properly... he is most productive when creating and distributing but he has has to share those responsibilities with jose and jack there for he hasnt had the ball in his hands as much as he is used too.

he has had glimpses in the season where he showed that he can still be really good. i remember one of our games vs new york where he just had an outstanding game and i recall the ball being in his hands alot more then what were used to seeing this season.

Hedo has never been an athletic player, so the notion that he is 29 now and only going to get worst is false i think . . his playmaking ability and skill is what makes him a talent not his athletisism.

BC has always found away to trade players. i mean JO was making like 20 + million on the last two years of his contract and BC was able to move him for marion. . then marion for turk basically. so its not impossible to trade him as BC has traded guys with more money left on theyre contract and at an older age, marion and JO being the examples.

its been a tuff season for hedo and the raptors all together but i really dont know if it can be put on one player. i think as a team the raptors had a difficult time finding an idenity because in the last 3 seasons, many players have came and went. 2 seasons ago we had like 10 new players on the roster, and then again this season we had a total of 9 new faces. its not the easiest task for a bunch of guys who never played together to just automatically become compatative. lots of yonge guys on the team..

hedo isnt that bad, the situation he is in is not ideal because he hasnt really found his place on the team. that could be his fault, or coaches.. but there could be a solution as well.. i still like the guy to be honest... im hoping he has a nice performance in the playoffs.

smith&wesson
03-30-2010, 02:05 PM
o ****. i just noticed. so he signed a 6 year contract with a warriors? i thought it was a 5 year deal.

but still turkoglu doesnt fit our system. maggette would be better.

maggette is what i call a chucker. no thanks.

Bob_at_york
03-30-2010, 02:28 PM
Plz I hope some other teams are interested in him. An unathletic and underachieving SF [b]who fakes a tummy ache to miss a game [b/]and then goes partying a couple hrs later and is paid $10 million a yr, what's there to possibly not like? I think Hedo has a LONG way to go before he becomes a fan favorite in Toronto.

Do you have a link to the bolded part? I read that the team doctors checked him out on friday and confirmed he was sick. I never heard that he was faking.

FlakeyFool
03-30-2010, 02:41 PM
Each and every Raps fan on PSD.

And most of the other guys had them in 5th behind Atlanta, some had them ahead of the Hawks (I had them at 9th for the record).

Don't clump all of us all together :rolleyes:

MagicDojo
03-30-2010, 04:02 PM
Otis Smith made the right choice. His contract is going to be harder to get free of then Gilbert Arenas's. Maybe he will get the message and buckle down and prove his worth again. I am just glad its not Orlando. although I dont think he would be slacking this way if he were still in orlando.

GoatMilk
03-30-2010, 04:09 PM
No thanks.

they got the same contract. Hedont's is 1 year longer i think
hedon't would play better in Oakland.

and maggette is better than Turk/Demar-for now/Wright. and the W's dont really need him. he's having a nice season, but so what

idk, maybe it would work?

Jamiecballer
03-30-2010, 04:29 PM
maggette's contract is just as bad.

i'd take Maggette for Hedo yesterday. even if his contract was worse, which it is not, he possesses qualities that are in short supply in our starting lineup - predominantly athleticism and a consistent second option on offense.

God love Bryan Colangelo. With one stroke he instantly devalued 2 commodities at the same time - Hedo Turkoglu and Jose Calderon. Great stuff.

Bob_at_york
03-30-2010, 04:34 PM
i'd take Maggette for Hedo yesterday. even if his contract was worse, which it is not, he possesses qualities that are in short supply in our starting lineup - predominantly athleticism and a consistent second option on offense.

God love Bryan Colangelo. With one stroke he instantly devalued 2 commodities at the same time - Hedo Turkoglu and Jose Calderon. Great stuff.

You don't think Maggette doesn't need the ball in his hands? He will want the ball on the wing just as much as Hedo, he just won't be as willing or able to pass it (which may not be a bad thing because the refs call fouls for him).

Jamiecballer
03-30-2010, 04:44 PM
sure he does. you can't score without the ball in your hands. the difference is that Maggette can score and make plays off of somebody else's passes (calderon) where as Hedo needs to get the ball from his point guard first, so that he can then play like a point guard with it. kinda renders the first point guard pointless if you ask me. and since running an efficient offense is Jose's biggest asset it is a terrible waste. we aren't good enough to be wasting our talents and still win consistently in my books.

secondly i think the raps badly need a second scorer to take some the pressure off Bosh, plus Maggette is a big upgrade athletically. seriously that's like win-win-win in my books.

Bob_at_york
03-30-2010, 04:47 PM
sure he does. you can't score without the ball in your hands. the difference is that Maggette can score and make plays off of somebody else's passes (calderon) where as Hedo needs to get the ball from his point guard first, so that he can then play like a point guard with it. kinda renders the first point guard pointless if you ask me. and since running an efficient offense is Jose's biggest asset it is a terrible waste. we aren't good enough to be wasting our talents and still win consistently in my books.

secondly i think the raps badly need a second scorer to take some the pressure off Bosh, plus Maggette is a big upgrade athletically. seriously that's like win-win-win in my books.

And you would also leave the raptors with something like 2 three-point shooters in their rotation. Teams would collapse the paint more than they do now.

Jamiecballer
03-30-2010, 04:51 PM
And you would also leave the raptors with something like 2 three-point shooters in their rotation. Teams would collapse the paint more than they do now.

shooters are a dime a dozen. that's a minor concession compared to the other issues.

JermanJaysFan
03-30-2010, 04:59 PM
shooters are a dime a dozen. that's a minor concession compared to the other issues.

Not when BC is giving out the contract they aren't. The full MLE is what Kapono got :laugh:

Chronz
03-30-2010, 06:47 PM
sure he does. you can't score without the ball in your hands. the difference is that Maggette can score and make plays off of somebody else's passes (calderon) where as Hedo needs to get the ball from his point guard first, so that he can then play like a point guard with it. kinda renders the first point guard pointless if you ask me. and since running an efficient offense is Jose's biggest asset it is a terrible waste. we aren't good enough to be wasting our talents and still win consistently in my books.

secondly i think the raps badly need a second scorer to take some the pressure off Bosh, plus Maggette is a big upgrade athletically. seriously that's like win-win-win in my books.
Bingo, that was my original worry about Hedo hooking up with Calderon. It seems to have effected both of their games, you can only have so many set up men from the perimeter, you need some finishers and Maggs knows how to do that, you just got to pass the ball where he likes it and its either a dunk or a foul. His PER is through the roof, and even though hes not a good defender hes still better than Hedo.

RaptorizedKevin
03-30-2010, 08:41 PM
Wrong. A lot of Raps fans (including myself) questioned the Hedo signing and the necessity for having two primary ball-handlers in the starting line-up (he and Calderon). People just remember the ignorant ones because they are prevalent. I had them finishing 6th-7th which they were right on pace for before Bosh's injury.

Not too many people had ATL being as dominant as they have been this year. They were a 47-win team last year and some people questioned the move for Jamal Crawford.

I agree. I hate to see people sterotypicalizing all raptor fans. i agree with you dol, i never liked the signing and i knew it was a very bad fit for toronto. but bc did it because he was just trying to proove the raptors are becoming a cotender so they got the best free agent out there. unfortunatly our big free agent is a bust.


Raptors are financially ****ed right now...

indeed. bc moves a lil too fast. he didnt need to extend bargnani. he should had overpaid turkoglu for one year. id rather give turkoglu a one year 15 mil contract, then have him for 4 years.


really? we get rid of turks contract.

i would take maggette over turkoglu any day of the week.

i would too. magette actually produces . turkoglu doesnt.


maggette's contract is just as bad.

indeed but he actually produces. better than having no one.

Why not?
thats what im thinking. ink why not?


Are u serious? Hell, I'd even throw in Reggie Evans too!

reggie evans isnt bad. do yu expect him to score ? hes been rebounding very well. im pleased with wat i see.


o ****. i just noticed. so he signed a 6 year contract with a warriors? i thought it was a 5 year deal.

but still turkoglu doesnt fit our system. maggette would be better.
same here. thats just as bad.


maggette is what i call a chucker. no thanks.

if magette does chuck, his game would seem similar to hedo, so i guess i wouldnt be interested. but at this point, i rather have some change then none. i dont like to see hedo at all. get him out of toronto bc.


Otis Smith made the right choice. His contract is going to be harder to get free of then Gilbert Arenas's. Maybe he will get the message and buckle down and prove his worth again. I am just glad its not Orlando. although I dont think he would be slacking this way if he were still in orlando.

otis is a hell of a gm. he makes smart decisions. rashard lewis isnt worth a max though.


i'd take Maggette for Hedo yesterday. even if his contract was worse, which it is not, he possesses qualities that are in short supply in our starting lineup - predominantly athleticism and a consistent second option on offense.
God love Bryan Colangelo. With one stroke he instantly devalued 2 commodities at the same time - Hedo Turkoglu and Jose Calderon. Great stuff.


bryan colangelo was panicing. he didnt realize hedos style of play and how it would effect other teamates. he just did it because he needed somethign big to show bosh. but now, this makes the situation worse. cuss bosh wont stay with this guy locked up for the next 4 years on a contract.


btw a question here. if turkoglu has possesion of a gun, does that give us the right to void his contract? like if he carrys a gun on him? if so please. someone frame this guy and get him out of toronto.

Bob_at_york
03-31-2010, 12:52 AM
shooters are a dime a dozen. that's a minor concession compared to the other issues.

If it is so easy to get outside shooters than why do we have so few 3-point shooters? Also we don't want just anybody, I think we would prefer someone who can play some D too.

Bob_at_york
03-31-2010, 12:58 AM
indeed. bc moves a lil too fast. he didnt need to extend bargnani. he should had overpaid turkoglu for one year. id rather give turkoglu a one year 15 mil contract, then have him for 4 years.
So I guess you knew that Bargs was not going to blossom into a star? Also Hedo would have never accepted a 1 year 15 mil offer.


i would too. magette actually produces . turkoglu doesnt.
Yes Maggette has produced a lot of wins for his team. How many wins do the Warriors have again?


indeed but he actually produces. better than having no one.
The Raptors don't have no one, they have Hedo who spaces out the floor for Bosh and Bargs.


thats what im thinking. ink why not?
Because Maggette needs the ball in his hands. He has the same skill set as players like Weems and DeMar. And he is a worse fit on the Raptors.


if magette does chuck, his game would seem similar to hedo, so i guess i wouldnt be interested. but at this point, i rather have some change then none. i dont like to see hedo at all. get him out of toronto bc.
IF? Do you know who Maggette is or not? Earlier you were talking like you have watched him play but now you are making it sound like you haven't.


btw a question here. if turkoglu has possesion of a gun, does that give us the right to void his contract? like if he carrys a gun on him? if so please. someone frame this guy and get him out of toronto.
I don't know the gun laws in Canada but I would assume they are stricter than the US.

RaptorizedKevin
03-31-2010, 01:06 AM
So I guess you knew that Bargs was not going to blossom into a star? Also Hedo would have never accepted a 1 year 15 mil offer.

Did i say that? until bargs does, then we can extend him. well offering 15 mil was worth a try. lol

[QUOTE]Yes Maggette has produced a lot of wins for his team. How many wins do the Warriors have again?
i meant he produces offensive numbers in limited minutes. even though its fast break stuff.


The Raptors don't have no one, they have Hedo who spaces out the floor for Bosh and Bargs.

and yet their offense ran poorly, and came out with slow starts in games.



Because Maggette needs the ball in his hands. He has the same skill set as players like Weems and DeMar. And he is a worse fit on the Raptors.

Howso? you dont actually know until magette is implemented to the raptors. you can infer at most about the fit of a player on a new team. He could be better than turkoglu. i rather see him jack up mid range jumpers then 3's.


IF? Do you know who Maggette is or not? Earlier you were talking like you have watched him play but now you are making it sound like you haven't.

yes i do.

I don't know the gun laws in Canada but I would assume they are stricter than the US.

the laws in canada are extremly soft. the laws in the US are alot harder.
if someone were to commit muder while being under " the youth criminal justice act" they'd get like a year in jail for first degree, no lie.this is why people in canada arent afraid to commit ****.

Sadds The Gr8
03-31-2010, 01:34 AM
reggie evans isnt bad. do yu expect him to score ? hes been rebounding very well. im pleased with wat i see.


I wasn't knocking Reggie...but I'm just sayin I'd throw him in, since we already have Amir.

MagicDojo
03-31-2010, 10:14 AM
shooters are a dime a dozen. that's a minor concession compared to the other issues.

Good pure shooters are very hard to find actually. It takes some players years to become good from 3.

Hawkeye15
03-31-2010, 10:34 AM
Many knew Turk was not that good. He played in the perfect system for him in Orlando, and even then wasn't all that great. Bad mistake by the Raptors honestly. But it was called that last summer the second he signed that deal.

Hawkeye15
03-31-2010, 10:34 AM
Good pure shooters are very hard to find actually. It takes some players years to become good from 3.

sorta true, but you don't pay a sniper $13 million a year when he does literally nothing else. That was the mistake

clehmun
03-31-2010, 10:37 AM
If it is so easy to get outside shooters than why do we have so few 3-point shooters? Also we don't want just anybody, I think we would prefer someone who can play some D too.

I don't know how much of that is because we don't have the shooters, and how much is we just don't know how to create good 3 point shots.

i mean, we had one of the best 3 pt shooters in the league in kapono, and we never used him to his full abilities.
it's just tough to get open 3s when everyone is perimeter oriented.

we do have the shooters (jose, jack, belineli, bargnani, turk, wright). i think wright is a decent shooter. that's not counting bosh.

thats 6 or 7 players who gets regular minutes who can hit open 3s. how many more do you want?

sometimes, it's not the players, but the system. how many people predicted channing frye to hit 160 3s this year?


on a side note, what's more important to you for the raptors?

- a shooter
- a slasher
- a defensive specialist

Rego247
03-31-2010, 10:38 AM
sorta true, but you don't pay a sniper $13 million a year when he does literally nothing else. That was the mistake


the guy gets between 5-7 assists a game, i think he does a little bit more than "literally nothing else"

clehmun
03-31-2010, 10:40 AM
sorta true, but you don't pay a sniper $13 million a year when he does literally nothing else. That was the mistake

Who's the "13 million dollar sniper that does literally nothing else" are you referring to? Because that's not Turkoglu at all.

Rego247
03-31-2010, 10:41 AM
I don't know how much of that is because we don't have the shooters, and how much is we just don't know how to create good 3 point shots.

i mean, we had one of the best 3 pt shooters in the league in kapono, and we never used him to his full abilities.
it's just tough to get open 3s when everyone is perimeter oriented.

we do have the shooters (jose, jack, belineli, bargnani, turk, wright). i think wright is a decent shooter. that's not counting bosh.

thats 6 or 7 players who gets regular minutes who can hit open 3s. how many more do you want?

sometimes, it's not the players, but the system. how many people predicted channing frye to hit 160 3s this year?


on a side note, what's more important to you for the raptors?

- a shooter
- a slasher
- a defensive specialist

im not sure if i can respond to this, but hands down defensive specialist, we have shooters, slashsers in DD and weems, cant have too many defensive minded players imo, we can score with anyone no problem there

Hawkeye15
03-31-2010, 10:42 AM
the guy gets between 5-7 assists a game, i think he does a little bit more than "literally nothing else"

actually gets around 4. He is a decent passer, fine. But he has been below the league average for efficiency for 2 years now, and is having the worst year of his career defensively. He has moved from pretty bad to horrible on that end

Bob_at_york
03-31-2010, 10:43 AM
Did i say that? until bargs does, then we can extend him.
So now you want to overpay? BC was trying to sign Bargs to a below market price because he felt there was going to be a big jump this season. If he had waited and Bargs had performed like an allstar than another team would have thrown a boat load of money at him and we would have been paying Bargs a lot more.



i meant he produces offensive numbers in limited minutes. even though its fast break stuff.
How limited are Corey's minutes? He is averaging almost 30 mpg. Hedo is only averaging something like 31 mpg. And you even admit that the Warriors run a fast break offence.


and yet their offense ran poorly, and came out with slow starts in games.
We have discussed this numerous times, I don't think you really want me to repeat myself do you?


Howso? you dont actually know until magette is implemented to the raptors. you can infer at most about the fit of a player on a new team. He could be better than turkoglu. i rather see him jack up mid range jumpers then 3's.
He could be better than Hedo but I doubt it. I already see defences crowd the paint on us, I can see them do it even more if we lose Hedo and gain another slasher.


yes i do.
Okay you do know him. Can you please explain to me how you think he is a better fit?



the laws in canada are extremly soft. the laws in the US are alot harder.
if someone were to commit muder while being under " the youth criminal justice act" they'd get like a year in jail for first degree, no lie.this is why people in canada arent afraid to commit ****.
What does that have to do with guns? :confused:

Rego247
03-31-2010, 10:50 AM
actually gets around 4. He is a decent passer, fine. But he has been below the league average for efficiency for 2 years now, and is having the worst year of his career defensively. He has moved from pretty bad to horrible on that end

so then u agree he's more than just a "sniper"

and fyi hes an above an average passer - if u watch any of the raps games this season u'd see that, hes unselfish to a fault sometimes

but the other stuff u mentioned is true, stats dont lie,

but the fact that hes just a sniper is a fallacy

Bob_at_york
03-31-2010, 10:59 AM
we do have the shooters (jose, jack, belineli, bargnani, turk, wright). i think wright is a decent shooter. that's not counting bosh.

thats 6 or 7 players who gets regular minutes who can hit open 3s. how many more do you want?
I want guys off the ball who can stretch the defence. I don't think Wright (31.8% from 3) and Jack (career high 41%) strike fear into defences. Jack has gotten a lot better and might start demanding respect from beyond the arc but they are no Jose, Hedo or Bargs. The thing is Jose, Hedo and Bargs are all players we want driving to the bucket and either scoring or passing it out for a score when the defence collapses. Instead we have Jack and Wright shooting 3s or Weems and DD shooting from just within the arc. These are not high percentage shots.


on a side note, what's more important to you for the raptors?

- a shooter
- a slasher
- a defensive specialist
Defensive specialist first and than a shooter.

Hawkeye15
03-31-2010, 11:01 AM
so then u agree he's more than just a "sniper"

and fyi hes an above an average passer - if u watch any of the raps games this season u'd see that, hes unselfish to a fault sometimes

but the other stuff u mentioned is true, stats dont lie,

but the fact that hes just a sniper is a fallacy

no, I have watched him play over his career. He is a decent passer, came from the Sac system. He hits cutters with ease sometimes. Being 6'10" does that haha. But yes, he is mostly just a sniper. I wouldn't call him a distributor in the least bit, but he will hit you if you are open.
He still kinda stinks though, at least for that cash.

MagicDojo
03-31-2010, 11:06 AM
sorta true, but you don't pay a sniper $13 million a year when he does literally nothing else. That was the mistake

are you talking about Lewis......
if a mistake is when you make it to the Finals.... ok...

Not when you sign Turk to a 50+mil contract.

clehmun
03-31-2010, 11:06 AM
so then u agree he's more than just a "sniper"

and fyi hes an above an average passer - if u watch any of the raps games this season u'd see that, hes unselfish to a fault sometimes

but the other stuff u mentioned is true, stats dont lie,

but the fact that hes just a sniper is a fallacy

i don't know if i'll call him a sniper either. he's a good shooter, but the word sniper to me is for guys like eddie house, frye this year, gallinari, kapono, etc. basically guys who made their name by hitting 3s. that's just me though.

Jamiecballer
03-31-2010, 11:08 AM
If it is so easy to get outside shooters than why do we have so few 3-point shooters? Also we don't want just anybody, I think we would prefer someone who can play some D too.

that's not for me to say Bob. i was not consulted!

what i was saying though is that if you have players on the offensive end that can command double teams (like Bosh does and like Corey Maggette can) it shouldn't be hard to find somebody who can make the opposing team pay on the perimeter. there are always guys like Luther Head available waiting by the phone.

Rego247
03-31-2010, 11:08 AM
no, I have watched him play over his career. He is a decent passer, came from the Sac system. He hits cutters with ease sometimes. Being 6'10" does that haha. But yes, he is mostly just a sniper. I wouldn't call him a distributor in the least bit, but he will hit you if you are open.
He still kinda stinks though, at least for that cash.

lol isnt that what a distributor does, i guess were just debating semantics now.

and yea his been a real disappointment for the cash. no argument there

Hawkeye15
03-31-2010, 11:09 AM
are you talking about Lewis......
if a mistake is when you make it to the Finals.... ok...

Not when you sign Turk to a 50+mil contract.

no, Lewis makes way more. And he will be an issue Orlando has to deal with on the back end of that contract, and any Magic fan knows that is true.

MagicDojo
03-31-2010, 11:10 AM
no, Lewis makes way more. And he will be an issue Orlando has to deal with on the back end of that contract, and any Magic fan knows that is true.

Perhaps but no one will complain as long as we are still playing in June.

Bob_at_york
03-31-2010, 11:14 AM
that's not for me to say Bob. i was not consulted!

what i was saying though is that if you have players on the offensive end that can command double teams (like Bosh does and like Corey Maggette can) it shouldn't be hard to find somebody who can make the opposing team pay on the perimeter. there are always guys like Luther Head available waiting by the phone.

I think Hedo can command a double-team just as much as Corey can.

Hawkeye15
03-31-2010, 11:20 AM
lol isnt that what a distributor does, i guess were just debating semantics now.

and yea his been a real disappointment for the cash. no argument there

nah, his assists come from quick reaction to open guys. He doesn't necessarily create is all I was saying.
What do you think needs to happen to the makeup of your team to change. Or basically, what are your realistic suggestions (obviously trading Calderon for a shorter deal would be great, but probably not gonna happen anytime soon)

Hawkeye15
03-31-2010, 11:21 AM
Perhaps but no one will complain as long as we are still playing in June.

well, it won't be perhaps. But you are right. If it gets Orlando a ring, who cares. But in about 2 years, you will have a ton of money locked into 2 players, and it will handcuff your attempt to bring much else in. Going over the cap to resign your current guys will be what you are left with.
But time will tell. For now, it doesn't matter all that much

miller74
03-31-2010, 11:23 AM
I dont think the right mix is there, bosh barg and hedo all love to do nothing but shoot jump shots. bosh is going to leave, i would see if they could package calderon and bargs of for something. So who know how he responds with a different roster around him. Its only the first year of this contract, hopefully he can turn it around

Chronz
03-31-2010, 11:25 AM
I hate Hedo but even I think your being to harsh on him, hes a good distributor and decent playmaker. Hes just too turnover prone to be elite, but he does make players better when hes not making himself look bad.

Chronz
03-31-2010, 11:27 AM
I dont think the right mix is there, bosh barg and hedo all love to do nothing but shoot jump shots. bosh is going to leave, i would see if they could package calderon and bargs of for something. So who know how he responds with a different roster around him. Its only the first year of this contract, hopefully he can turn it around
Thats why I was thinking why wouldnt you want Maggs, youve got so many players who all do similar things, Bosh is your only true duel threat player, I think having a mega efficient scorer would help more than another distributor on a team that already features Calderon.

Hawkeye15
03-31-2010, 11:43 AM
Thats why I was thinking why wouldnt you want Maggs, youve got so many players who all do similar things, Bosh is your only true duel threat player, I think having a mega efficient scorer would help more than another distributor on a team that already features Calderon.

Maggette has been underrated imo for a long time. Is he overpaid? Probably. But he is an efficient scorer who gets to the line a ton, who doesn't help on the defensive side all that much, but could sure add a threat to their offense. I think he would work very well in Toronto

ragee
03-31-2010, 11:47 AM
So glad he decided to not come to Portland.

Uh.. Dude! Imagine if he signed with the Blazers! Not only will he be stealing money from the team but he would be stealing mins from Batum and Rudy as well! Yikes! Good thing Toronto is a beautiful diverse city!

Chronz
03-31-2010, 11:57 AM
Maggette has been underrated imo for a long time. Is he overpaid? Probably. But he is an efficient scorer who gets to the line a ton, who doesn't help on the defensive side all that much, but could sure add a threat to their offense. I think he would work very well in Toronto
Overpaid? He got slightly higher than the MLE I believe, and hes been ridiculously underpaid over the years. And despite his reputation hes actually a team first player. He was disrespected during his stint with us and did voice his dissatisfaction but he handled everything like a pro.

bloated
03-31-2010, 12:00 PM
he's not as bad as everyone says he is.. he's worse.:facepalm:

miller74
03-31-2010, 12:01 PM
Corey Maggette is a walking trade rumour

Raph12
03-31-2010, 12:15 PM
Maggette is extremey underrated, he's a solid scorer in this league, can play multiple positions and can get other guys into foul trouble. The Raps didn't need another ballhandler/playmaker in Turk, they have Calderon and Jack for that already.

Turk can't play off-ball and be effective, Maggette for Turk would make the Raps much better, period.

MagicDojo
03-31-2010, 12:17 PM
Maggette is extremey underrated, he's a solid scorer in this league, can play multiple positions and can get other guys into foul trouble. The Raps didn't need another ballhandler/playmaker in Turk, they have Calderon and Jack for that already.

Turk can't play off-ball and be effective, period.

I really liked Maggette when he played in Orlando but that was quite a few yers ago.

clehmun
03-31-2010, 12:32 PM
Overpaid? He got slightly higher than the MLE I believe, and hes been ridiculously underpaid over the years. And despite his reputation hes actually a team first player. He was disrespected during his stint with us and did voice his dissatisfaction but he handled everything like a pro.

actually maggette makes 9 million a year this year, 9.6 next year, 10.2 the year after, and 10.9 million in his last year. pretty close to turk.

Hawkeye15
03-31-2010, 12:42 PM
Overpaid? He got slightly higher than the MLE I believe, and hes been ridiculously underpaid over the years. And despite his reputation hes actually a team first player. He was disrespected during his stint with us and did voice his dissatisfaction but he handled everything like a pro.

He is owed $30 million over the next 3 starting after this season.
And truthfully, I like his game, and think he makes barely more than he is worth, which cant be said of many NBA players.

Bob_at_york
03-31-2010, 01:46 PM
Maggette is extremey underrated, he's a solid scorer in this league, can play multiple positions and can get other guys into foul trouble. The Raps didn't need another ballhandler/playmaker in Turk, they have Calderon and Jack for that already..
They didn't have Jack when they got Hedo but that is a small digression. While Jose and Jack are ballhandlers I don't feel they make enough "plays". I think Hedo is a much better playmaker than them and that is what they need down the stretch of this season and in games.

Raph12
03-31-2010, 01:50 PM
They didn't have Jack when they got Hedo but that is a small digression. While Jose and Jack are ballhandlers I don't feel they make enough "plays". I think Hedo is a much better playmaker than them and that is what they need down the stretch of this season and in games.

Well then you gotta get him the ball, with Nelson out, Hedo was handling the ball for us almost 100% of the time he was on the floor.

People may laugh at his "ball" interview but it's true, he can't be effective off-ball and needs it to be relevant.

clehmun
03-31-2010, 01:54 PM
They didn't have Jack when they got Hedo but that is a small digression. While Jose and Jack are ballhandlers I don't feel they make enough "plays". I think Hedo is a much better playmaker than them and that is what they need down the stretch of this season and in games.

I don't disagree. I think Calderon is too safe at times. and Jack is more like a combo guard, people are gona laugh when I say this, but Jack's game reminds me of Mike James, when he played for us a few years back. Obviously without the stupidity, and Jack doesn't have to do as much as James had to do before (score 20 pts a game).

Bob_at_york
03-31-2010, 01:55 PM
Well then you gotta get him the ball, with Nelson out, Hedo was handling the ball for us almost 100% of the time he was on the floor.

People may laugh at his "ball" interview but it's true, he can't be effective off-ball and needs it to be relevant.

I have been saying the same thing all season long. he isn't Peja, he is useless sitting in the corner waiting for the kickout. He also isn't the type of player who can get 5 touches in the first 3 quarters then turn it on in the 4th.

Raph12
03-31-2010, 02:09 PM
I have been saying the same thing all season long. he isn't Peja, he is useless sitting in the corner waiting for the kickout. He also isn't the type of player who can get 5 touches in the first 3 quarters then turn it on in the 4th.

Orlando has fared well without him because we got Nelson back, Dwight's developed a strong iso game, Carter can create and we're putting Shard in the post again, so we don't need Hedo's playmaking anymore.

Hedo needs the ball in his hands all the time, that way he can do his thing and get others involved as well.

Jamiecballer
03-31-2010, 02:28 PM
I think Hedo can command a double-team just as much as Corey can.

i think you missed the point of my post, it has nothing to do with Hedo. i was responding to your question of how i say it's easy to get shooters. you don't need a great all around player. you just need somebody who can consistently make the team pay from deep when Bosh/Maggette/Turk are doubled.

we had 2 guys like that last year, Parker and Kapono. there are guys like that on pretty well every roster in the league, and there are always guys like Luther Head looking for a team. The names may change from year to year but the type of player that can flourish in that type of situation is usually around for quite cheap. Bellinelli could be that guy if he wasn't so damn inconsistent but he is what he is.


in fact, i'd say that's the biggest problem i have with the roster Colangelo put together this year in Toronto - we have a whole bunch of guys who would be the 4th or 5th best guys on a contender - and Bosh.

back to Kapono- even though i agreed 100% with trading Kapono for Evans at the time i can appreciate the irony here. We could really use somebody to stretch the defense like Kapono, meanwhile Reggie's *** is stapled to the bench. LOL

Bob_at_york
03-31-2010, 02:56 PM
i think you missed the point of my post, it has nothing to do with Hedo. i was responding to your question of how i say it's easy to get shooters. you don't need a great all around player. you just need somebody who can consistently make the team pay from deep when Bosh/Maggette/Turk are doubled.
You are right, I digressed and missed your point.


we had 2 guys like that last year, Parker and Kapono. there are guys like that on pretty well every roster in the league, and there are always guys like Luther Head looking for a team. The names may change from year to year but the type of player that can flourish in that type of situation is usually around for quite cheap. Bellinelli could be that guy if he wasn't so damn inconsistent but he is what he is.
I think BC thought that Marco could be that guy, he could grow into the role but he isn't there right now. I also like to think that BC thought that Jose could fill that role.


in fact, i'd say that's the biggest problem i have with the roster Colangelo put together this year in Toronto - we have a whole bunch of guys who would be the 4th or 5th best guys on a contender - and Bosh.
I disagree.


back to Kapono- even though i agreed 100% with trading Kapono for Evans at the time i can appreciate the irony here. We could really use somebody to stretch the defense like Kapono, meanwhile Reggie's *** is stapled to the bench. LOL
I don't miss Jason, I miss AP.