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View Full Version : Has Dwight Howard really improved this season?



Boston Faithful
03-25-2010, 01:14 AM
This is a question.

I haven't watched alot of the Magic this season, only some of the bigger games which isn't enough to gauge whether he is better this season. I usually can tell in the first round in the playoffs how much they really improved.

But his stats show he's declined. Less points, less rebounds, less blocks, less steals, and more turnovers.

But he has better percentages on less shots and free throws. I just don't understand -- LeBron's stats get better each season, shouldn't Howard's? LeBron's averaging 29.7 points a game, 8.5 assists per game and 7.3 rebounds per game -- all up on a team that now has Shaq and Antawn Jamison. So the fact Carter and other weapons are on the team now shouldn't an excuse.

Am I missing something? Magic fans?

zachattach
03-25-2010, 01:23 AM
not a Magic fan, but I just call it how I see it. I see Dwight as a maxed out player. He doesn't have much left to show. Don't get me wrong he is awesome, but I just don't see him improving his number by much from what he averaged last season. He might have a couple seasons where he averages more rebounds or blocks. Just don't expect him to blow up offensively over a season in years to come.

This is strictly my opinion.

Chronz
03-25-2010, 01:34 AM
Bigmen peak late, give him time.

But its his turnovers that are killing his stats. Hes learning how to handle a go to role, it takes time. Since the A-S break hes been gravy, I dont like discounting stretches but if they continue on towards next year its relevant information. If he never improves he will likely go down as a top 10 center.

iggypop123
03-25-2010, 01:34 AM
its tough, he cant get bigger or stronger,(cause he has maxed out his body) but his moves are coming along, but very very slowly. he still gets most of his baskets on predictable moves, or on dunks. in this league thats actually enough, but for a title? not so much

zachattach
03-25-2010, 02:38 AM
not a Magic fan, but I just call it how I see it. I see Dwight as a maxed out player. He doesn't have much left to show. Don't get me wrong he is awesome, but I just don't see him improving his number by much from what he averaged last season. He might have a couple seasons where he averages more rebounds or blocks. Just don't expect him to blow up offensively over a season in years to come.

This is strictly my opinion.

GatorKid117
03-25-2010, 03:26 AM
Guess I'll give a crack at it.

Long answer:

The Story

To answer your question, yes he has improved, but not a whole bunch. Dwight has had a very tumultuous season with all of the changes to the Magic. At first, Shard was suspended for the first ten games, then Vince got some nagging injuries, then Lewis came back and Nelson injured himself and sat out a month and then Vince went all "January Vince" on everyone. All the while, Dwight remained the only constant. Now trying to incorporate a player like Carter is no easy task in itself but with all of the shuffling with the lineup, the Magic never really established an identity until really the end of January/Feburary. SVG at first wanted Carter to be All star Carter while Vince just wanted to fit in. Meanwhile, some players like Shard mentioned to the media how its difficult to gel with players like Vince cause they need the ball so obviously there were some problems on how they were playing. Once February hit and after the all-star break, the team really took off and made it a priority to give it to Dwight. He has responded by putting up 20/12 on almost 64% shooting. It took a long time for SVG to see what worked with this team and for the past 2 months, Dwight is back to his normal numbers.

Statistical

The statistical evidence shows Dwight's USG rate is down 2 whole % points and he's playing 1 less minute a game. This means fewer opportunities for him to score which obviously means a decrease in his numbers

Observation

Dwight started off very rough, then was alright up until the AS break. Since the AS break, he has really shown what he can do. He's had numerous games where he has shown some great post moves and even some great passes. However, Dwight is still very emotional and I think he gets rattled easily. I think that explains why he can be so inconsistent. For the past week, he has looked horrible after looking unstoppable for about a month. I just don't get it with him. He shows amazing flashes at time but can't sustain it. It's so frustrating. Like tonight for example, he was basically shut down by Zaza and Horford. That should never happen to a "superstar".

Short Answer: Ya he has but only in spurts. He is still inconsistent, TO prone and plays stupidly sometimes. However, if you watch him enough you can see the improvement in his post-game and even in his passing, despite what the numbers show. He is slowly getting there. I doubt he will ever be a 27/28 ppg type of player but I can see him in the next few years getting to 25. Consistency is the key for him.

jfin
03-25-2010, 03:39 AM
once he gets some post moves you'll see his pts go up. i wonder what Pat Ewing is teaching him but remember the magic jack up alotta 3s sometimes and dwight doesn't get his touches. but i don't think he has improved tremendously from last year but is about the same really

Dray13
03-25-2010, 03:40 AM
I've watched alot of Magic games this year. I think 2 things are attributing to those stats..first thing he gets into foul trouble alot..and the second thing is that we've been on such a tear since the ASG, blowing out a number of teams by double digits, that he often sits out the 4th quarter. I actually think he's improved this season, not by much...but enough to where you can clearly tell by watching him game after game.

jackdawson
03-25-2010, 04:07 AM
Dwight is my fav center in the league by miles. He is a tremendous defensive player and I do believe he will be averaging 23/24 ppg at his prime years. However, it's not fair to compare him with other great centers. He is who he is and he will be known as Dwight Howard. Many people compare him with Shaq, but I dont get it. They are different types and judging him by Shaq is completely stupid imo. In short, dwight will never be as dominant offensive force as shaq was. Shaq was capable of carrying a team offensively to championship because he was absolutely unstoppable, and that's why he averaged around 27-30 ppg for years. Dwight Howard is just not that type, but give him some time and he will hit his prime when he turns 27-28.

Lakersfan2483
03-25-2010, 04:35 AM
From what I have seen, Dwight is much improved this year. He's turning into a go to guy and he's become a much better passer when he's doubled. He's impacting the game a lot more on the offensive end and is becoming an anchor for the Magic on both ends. Also, his offensive skillset has improved in terms of his footwork and having more moves when he's operating in the post. Overall, I think Dwight has improved a great deal this year and will continue to get better with more experience and work.

Dwight is the best big man in the league and a top 5 player. His impact on the outcome of a game is tremendous and he has his team in position for a title run.

JNA17
03-25-2010, 07:35 AM
This is a question.

I haven't watched alot of the Magic this season, only some of the bigger games which isn't enough to gauge whether he is better this season. I usually can tell in the first round in the playoffs how much they really improved.

But his stats show he's declined. Less points, less rebounds, less blocks, less steals, and more turnovers.

But he has better percentages on less shots and free throws. I just don't understand -- LeBron's stats get better each season, shouldn't Howard's? LeBron's averaging 29.7 points a game, 8.5 assists per game and 7.3 rebounds per game -- all up on a team that now has Shaq and Antawn Jamison. So the fact Carter and other weapons are on the team now shouldn't an excuse.

Am I missing something? Magic fans?

so basically your saying dwight only got worse this year because he's not doing better stats wise?

Corey
03-25-2010, 08:12 AM
so basically your saying dwight only got worse this year because he's not doing better stats wise?

You would expect a player of his stature to increase in production every year, and he's more staying stagnant than anything else.

It's obvious that he is working on his post moves, and passing though. Also factor into account that he has so many other options on his team, so the Magic don't want/need him to go out and drop 30 each game.

I will say they should work it in to the post every single possession, and let Dwight make the decisions. They do it a decent amount, but seem to fall in love with the perimeter game at times which could ultimately be their downfall. The guards need to remember that Dwight is the best player on the court at all times, and giving him a touch every possession will open up more opportunities for open shots.

RadiantShot
03-25-2010, 09:26 AM
Bigmen peak late, give him time.

But its his turnovers that are killing his stats. Hes learning how to handle a go to role, it takes time. Since the A-S break hes been gravy, I dont like discounting stretches but if they continue on towards next year its relevant information. If he never improves he will likely go down as a top 10 center.

I agree with Chronz.

I'm a Magic fan, so I'll add in what I think he's doing great on, and what he needs to improve on.


First off, I honestly don't think his PPG is a big deal. We have so many other weapons, that Dwight doesn't have to be a 25+ PPG scorer like other elite Shooting-Guards, and Small Forwards in the league, such as Lebron, Melo, Durant, Kobe, etc. He can make a grave impact just by doing what he needs to do. Play defense. His offensive capabilities are increasing every week. He's developing some nice low-post moves, can get TONS of offensive-rebounds, plays the best defense in the league, and still manages to get his own on offense. If he was 13-15, I'd be more concerned, but he's doing what he needs to to help us get to the Finals again.

His stats are a little bit lower, but he's still leading the league in a wide variety of categories, a few amongst those being Rebounds, blocks, FG%, etc. While leading his team to the 2nd spot in the Eastern Conference. He's doing a tremendous job.

Another thing to keep in mind is that he also doesn't get as many touches as he should. When he does get his fair share, he can score 25-30 on any given night, while still managing to pull down 12-15 rebounds, and get a few blocks, which I think is great.

Dwight is his own player. He's the best defender in the league. He's a game changing player. He's leading his team like he's suppose to lead them.

After the All-Star Break, he's been solid, and some. I like how he's handling his job and role on this team as our superstar as of late. Ask anyone. Ask Raph, ask ManRam, ask anyone that watched Orlando play.


---

Now with the bad, I'll make this short and sweet for the most part.

Bad fouls, Turnovers/Passing out of the Post, and Free-throws.


Dwight has a tendency to get early fouls, and cost us a lead, because when he goes to the bench, our game-play falls apart. He is the rock behind our defense, and keeps it going, so when he's not there, team's take advantage inside, and exploit the weaknesses.

Turnovers/Passing out of the post are a problem because if he starts to get trapped down low, we have to rely on other players to get the tempo going, but Dwight's responsibility in keeping the ball going, and not turning it over is crucial in late-game situations, or any situation for that matter.

The last thing, and there are probably a few more, but I can't go into depth on them, is free-throws. I don't really know where to start on this topic. Dwight's been interviewed on Television before, and talked about how he's working on his free-throws. He's shot 100 Free-throws after Practice, every practice. He said the most he's made was 86, which is pretty amazing, well, at least for Dwight. I think eventually, it will come, but my thought is that he's either nervous in the beginning, or he doesn't take enough time.

Raph12
03-25-2010, 01:45 PM
He's gotten better offensively, since the midpoint of the season (41 games in), he's avged 21.3ppg-13.6rpg-1.8apg-1.0spg-3.0bpg on 63.3FG% and the Magic have gone 24-7 in that stretch.

He's gotten better, but they were experimenting a lot with with lineups and plays and whatnot before things started to get consistent. Plus, with all of the talent around him, he's getting less looks and taking more nights off in blowouts, a slow start has also hurt his numbers.

The playoffs and next season will really show what he looks like now.

Chronz
03-25-2010, 01:56 PM
Agreed but playing less minutes because of blowouts dont hurt your #'s, remember what matters is a player production in his minutes. Per minute/per possession stats dont differentiate between 30 or 40MPG. They are your flat rates

Raph12
03-25-2010, 02:03 PM
Agreed, but I was talking about per game stats.

Most guys on PSD tend to just look at the per game and not so much at the per minute/per possession stats.

Chronz
03-25-2010, 02:04 PM
Dont base your logic off what most people look at, tell them the truth and if they question you spread the knowledge.

Raph12
03-25-2010, 03:19 PM
Yeah I guess it would be nicer to spread some knowledge to increase the intelligence of the average NBA fan.

RadiantShot
03-25-2010, 03:23 PM
Yo where's my props for typing an essay? :)

*Superman*
03-25-2010, 03:30 PM
I agree with Chronz.

I'm a Magic fan, so I'll add in what I think he's doing great on, and what he needs to improve on.


First off, I honestly don't think his PPG is a big deal. We have so many other weapons, that Dwight doesn't have to be a 25+ PPG scorer like other elite Shooting-Guards, and Small Forwards in the league, such as Lebron, Melo, Durant, Kobe, etc. He can make a grave impact just by doing what he needs to do. Play defense. His offensive capabilities are increasing every week. He's developing some nice low-post moves, can get TONS of offensive-rebounds, plays the best defense in the league, and still manages to get his own on offense. If he was 13-15, I'd be more concerned, but he's doing what he needs to to help us get to the Finals again.

His stats are a little bit lower, but he's still leading the league in a wide variety of categories, a few amongst those being Rebounds, blocks, FG%, etc. While leading his team to the 2nd spot in the Eastern Conference. He's doing a tremendous job.

Another thing to keep in mind is that he also doesn't get as many touches as he should. When he does get his fair share, he can score 25-30 on any given night, while still managing to pull down 12-15 rebounds, and get a few blocks, which I think is great.

Dwight is his own player. He's the best defender in the league. He's a game changing player. He's leading his team like he's suppose to lead them.

After the All-Star Break, he's been solid, and some. I like how he's handling his job and role on this team as our superstar as of late. Ask anyone. Ask Raph, ask ManRam, ask anyone that watched Orlando play.


---

Now with the bad, I'll make this short and sweet for the most part.

Bad fouls, Turnovers/Passing out of the Post, and Free-throws.


Dwight has a tendency to get early fouls, and cost us a lead, because when he goes to the bench, our game-play falls apart. He is the rock behind our defense, and keeps it going, so when he's not there, team's take advantage inside, and exploit the weaknesses.

Turnovers/Passing out of the post are a problem because if he starts to get trapped down low, we have to rely on other players to get the tempo going, but Dwight's responsibility in keeping the ball going, and not turning it over is crucial in late-game situations, or any situation for that matter.

The last thing, and there are probably a few more, but I can't go into depth on them, is free-throws. I don't really know where to start on this topic. Dwight's been interviewed on Television before, and talked about how he's working on his free-throws. He's shot 100 Free-throws after Practice, every practice. He said the most he's made was 86, which is pretty amazing, well, at least for Dwight. I think eventually, it will come, but my thought is that he's either nervous in the beginning, or he doesn't take enough time.

:pity: Horrible essay.

;)

Raph12
03-25-2010, 03:49 PM
Yo where's my props for typing an essay? :)

Sorry didn't see it lol.

I'll give your essay a quick analysis;


I agree with Chronz.

I'm a Magic fan, so I'll add in what I think he's doing great on, and what he needs to improve on.


First off, 1. I honestly don't think his PPG is a big deal. We have so many other weapons, that Dwight doesn't have to be a 25+ PPG scorer like other elite Shooting-Guards, and Small Forwards in the league, such as Lebron, Melo, Durant, Kobe, etc. He can make a grave impact just by doing what he needs to do. Play defense. His offensive capabilities are increasing every week. He's developing some nice low-post moves, can get TONS of offensive-rebounds, plays the best defense in the league, and still manages to get his own on offense. If he was 13-15, I'd be more concerned, but he's doing what he needs to to help us get to the Finals again.

His stats are a little bit lower, but he's still leading the league in a wide variety of categories, a few amongst those being Rebounds, blocks, FG%, etc. While leading his team to the 2nd spot in the Eastern Conference. He's doing a tremendous job.

Another thing to keep in mind is that he also doesn't get as many touches as he should. When he does get his fair share, he can score 25-30 on any given night, while still managing to pull down 12-15 rebounds, and get a few blocks, which I think is great.

Dwight is his own player. He's the best defender in the league. He's a game changing player. He's leading his team like he's suppose to lead them.

After the All-Star Break, he's been solid, and some. I like how he's handling his job and role on this team as our superstar as of late. Ask anyone. Ask Raph, ask ManRam, ask anyone that watched Orlando play.


---

Now with the bad, I'll make this short and sweet for the most part.

2. Bad fouls, Turnovers/Passing out of the Post, and Free-throws.


Dwight has a tendency to get early fouls, and cost us a lead, because when he goes to the bench, our game-play falls apart. He is the rock behind our defense, and keeps it going, so when he's not there, team's take advantage inside, and exploit the weaknesses.

3. Turnovers/Passing out of the post are a problem because if he starts to get trapped down low, we have to rely on other players to get the tempo going, but Dwight's responsibility in keeping the ball going, and not turning it over is crucial in late-game situations, or any situation for that matter.

The last thing, and there are probably a few more, but I can't go into depth on them, is free-throws. I don't really know where to start on this topic. Dwight's been interviewed on Television before, and talked about how he's working on his free-throws. He's shot 100 Free-throws after Practice, every practice. He said the most he's made was 86, which is pretty amazing, well, at least for Dwight. I think eventually, it will come, but my thought is that he's either nervous in the beginning, or he doesn't take enough time.

Everything I put didn't put in bold are the things I agree with. Now about the things in bold;

1. Dwight's been avging 21.3ppg since the first game against LA (31 games ago) and that on 63.3FG%. After playing as the #1 option, he's flourished, a slow start and coaching were the main reasons for Dwight's low PPG numbers.

2. The bad fouls usually come from touch/tick-tacky fouls that most other players never pick up.
For Example: If you watch Ron-ron play, you know that he's permitted to be extremely physical with the player he's guarding, but Dwight picks up touch fouls regularly.

3. Most of Dwight's turnovers are offensive fouls, not from bad passes out of doubles. He picked up two early fouls just yesterday because Smith flopped on one and then one on a moving screen where Barnes moved before Dwight got there. His passing out of doubles has gotten much better, but he's become a reluctant passer because the ball never comes back when he does pass it out.

Finally, his fouls and turnovers sort of go hand-in-hand, but with that being said, he does need to make the adjustment and start playing a bit more cautiously in order to stay on the floor. The passing out of doubles need to be addressed, he needs to talk to his teammates and tell them that if he gets them the ball out of a double, they either need to shoot it or get it back to him when he reposts.

All-in-all, good post.

MagicBucsSox
03-25-2010, 03:58 PM
everyday some fool is making a new dwight thread, oh is he doing this or that, why is this down,why is that up, oh lebron is doing this,durant averages that, GET OVER IT !!!
its sad when a big man who does bigman things gets ridiculed because he's not doing what perimeter players or with some center in the past did. the difference between dwight and the great centers is HE DOESNT HAVE A GREAT WING PLAYER LIKE SHAQ ALWAYS HAD or a another star like duncan kareem had.
he's a center that leads the league in rebounding n blocks thats his job

mikantsass
03-25-2010, 04:12 PM
everyday some fool is making a new dwight thread, oh is he doing this or that, why is this down,why is that up, oh lebron is doing this,durant averages that, GET OVER IT !!!
its sad when a big man who does bigman things gets ridiculed because he's not doing what perimeter players or with some center in the past did. the difference between dwight and the great centers is HE DOESNT HAVE A GREAT WING PLAYER LIKE SHAQ ALWAYS HAD or a another star like duncan kareem had. he's a center that leads the league in rebounding n blocks thats his job

He doesnt?
The magic have possibly the best outside shooting team in the league.

This year he has Vince and Lewis as wings, last year he had Turk and Lewis

JasonJohnHorn
03-25-2010, 04:17 PM
In looking at his stats one might think not. His turnovers are as high as ever, and his scoring and rebounding averages have dipped slightly, but there is a reason for that. The team has more offensive weapons and SVG knows that Howard doesn't need the offence run through him to be effective offensively, and that it is actually when the offence is being run through Nelson, Lewis and even Carter that the Magic do well. Lewis and Carter can draw double teams, as can Nelson when he's driving to the hoop, and when Howard's defender rolls off him to help Howard knows how to recieve the pass and put the ball in the hoop.

In watching his game, there is improvement. He has worked on his foot work, and though I've still seen him use that shoulder-drop-spear move that is really an offensive fouls that is not called nearly enough, he has show improvement in his ability to create space between him and his defender and work his way to the hoop.

Howard has said that he has work on his midrange jumper in the offseason, but in the few games I've gotten to see I havent seen him pull it out, but I have also heard SVG isnt interested in using Howard as a mid-range jump shooter right now, so perhaps next season we may see that. As for now he does have a career high in FG% and I can't remember the last time a player averages only 10 shots a game was still able to post nearly twenty points a game. That efficiency is CRAZY!!!!! Most coaches would be happy with guy who scores points that equal the number of shots he takes, but Howard is scoring almost two points a shot! getting 18+ a game with only 10.2 shots a game.

So yes, while he hasn't improved by leaps and bounds, his has shown some improvement and is as much of a beast in the interior as ever. Though his permeter defence needs soem work, and as everybody is quick to point out, he needs to cut down on the turnovers and work on passing out of the double team. He can survive and thrive without a jump shot, but I would like to see him develop one, as well as continue to work on his foot work in the post.

I think it is important to give Howard props for not publically complaining about the number of shots he gets or the fact that SVG doesnt run plays for him fifteen feet out. Howard was clearly proud of himself for working on his jumper, but SVG hasnt used Howard's offseason improvements and Howard has had the foresight to see that the limited offensive role he is playing is paying off for his team and hasnt rocked the boat. That shows a lot of maturity in my book because I know some guys who make strides in their game really want to show it off during game time and Howard has been patient.

macc
03-25-2010, 04:18 PM
He doesnt?
The magic have possibly the best outside shooting team in the league.

This year he has Vince and Lewis as wings, last year he had Turk and Lewis



He was talking more of a superstar peremeter player. Vince is borderline all star at this point of his career. Hes talking more about the players Shaq has had his entire career. Penny, Kobe, D Wade, and now Lebron. Basically peremeter players who can draw double and triple teams. Not just peremeter shooters. Savy



Going to Dwight, he's def improved. If you read threads from about a year ago, it was us Magic fans who jumped on Dwight the most for his offensive struggles. However this year he's done alot to work on it. He has alot of post moves and is just smarter about his position. Dwight a year ago would catch the ball 8 ft out and take a long hook shot and normally miss. This year, if he catches it that far out, he'll kick the ball to a peremeter guy and reposition himself closer to the basket and get the ball right back. Also he's doing a great job passing out of double teams and being alot more patient.

Basically his fundamentals have greatly improved. I never worry to much about PPG, maybe if he was on the Nets or something I would but the guy has Vince Carter, Lewis, Nelson by his side. You're talking 4 all stars in the starting lineup. Theres only one ball to go around. As long as he's getting touches on offense 90% of the time and players are shooting well then I'm fine with it.

He has about a 10-15 ft jumpshot that's decent but he doesn't use it much, but when he shoots it, most of the time it goes in. Its really Tim Dunan esc...

The things he needs to work on is his free throws and turnovers, he still has a bad habit of bringing the ball down when he gets the ball, so he can become pretty predictable and players wait for that and strip it from him.

But who doesn't have things to work on?

MagicBucsSox
03-26-2010, 07:23 AM
He doesnt?
The magic have possibly the best outside shooting team in the league.

This year he has Vince and Lewis as wings, last year he had Turk and Lewis

so vince at 33, rashard stiff lewis and hedo at 30 are just as good as have wade,kobe and penny when he was considered a top5 player? are you really gonna say that?

magic dont have a penetrator to take pressure off dwight

twoearl
03-26-2010, 10:46 AM
Dwight HAS improved, dont be silly. But if you think he will average 30ppg one season you are crazy. His game will never be that versatile to do that. But I can easily see him putting up a 23 and 12 season soon.

sportsbux
03-26-2010, 09:52 PM
I feel like he has improved his OVERALL game this season. He is just as talented as he was last year, but his maturity is growing in his favor. Look at the Magic's record for starters, and look how many teams they have been blowing out this season. Dwight can bring down 20 rebounds on any given night (he had 19 tonight).