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DitchDat
03-23-2010, 09:41 AM
We all followed the situation.
Played his heart out in Philly. Took a bunch of role players to the Finals and scored like a madman.
Got traded to the Nuggets. Didn't understand how NOT to be the alpha dog and did not change his style of play.
Traded to the Pistons for Billups after Denver gave up on the AI-Melo project. Billups' steady veteran leadership and experience brought the Nuggets back to relevance. AI, meanwhile, is rotting in Detroit. His body language and attitude about coming off the bench raise a lot of eyebrows. Calls it quits a couple of weeks before the playoffs and leaves his team mates to drown. Doesn't even give it a try.

Summer of 09. Inks a 1-year contract with Memphis. A lot of people wonder why he doesn't start over Mike Conley. Quits on the team after 3 games off the bench. Pouts like a little girl and gets bought out. Flirts with the Knicks, but re-signs in Philly for the pro-rated veteran's minimum. Things don't go his way - both on the court and in his private life - and he quits again.

Now, I have a lot of respect for the man, but I think he should hang it up. He has recklessly abandoned his body over the years and doesn't have the right mentality For instance, Jerry Stackhouse fills the 'scoring punch off the bench' role in Milwaukee. the difference? Stackhouse agrees to the role and knows he's making the team better. So does Jason Terry in Dallas (he knows he will get his number called when they need him to start), Nate Rob in Boston ... AI would never do that - he's "All I".
There's a lot of buzz about him returning next year, but frankly, I don't think he should.

Should he hang it up?

RadiantShot
03-23-2010, 09:47 AM
I'm unsure about Iverson staying in the league or not.

If he wants to keep acting like a baby, when he can't get the starting role on a team, then he should quit. If he can maybe come off the bench as a spark plug for an offense, or a team trying to win a championship, then I think he should stay in the league.

My gut tells me he will always want to start, and be the star on the team. That's not going to happen anymore. He's too immature to let it go, and become a bench-player. Don't see him continuing his journey in the NBA any longer.

DitchDat
03-23-2010, 09:50 AM
It's really a clear-cut situation.

the contenders are pretty much set roster-wise. They maybe bring in guys for the bench, but Iverson doesn't want that.

The teams who aren't making the playoffs, want to play their young guys as much as possible, so that they can develop. They don't want a fading star taking away valuable playing time and ruining chemistry.

JonnyBrav000
03-23-2010, 10:02 AM
We all followed the situation.
Played his heart out in Philly. Took a bunch of role players to the Finals and scored like a madman.
Got traded to the Nuggets. Didn't understand how NOT to be the alpha dog and did not change his style of play.
Traded to the Pistons for Billups after Denver gave up on the AI-Melo project. Billups' steady veteran leadership and experience brought the Nuggets back to relevance. AI, meanwhile, is rotting in Detroit. His body language and attitude about coming off the bench raise a lot of eyebrows. Calls it quits a couple of weeks before the playoffs and leaves his team mates to drown. Doesn't even give it a try.

Summer of 09. Inks a 1-year contract with Memphis. A lot of people wonder why he doesn't start over Mike Conley. Quits on the team after 3 games off the bench. Pouts like a little girl and gets bought out. Flirts with the Knicks, but re-signs in Philly for the pro-rated veteran's minimum. Things don't go his way - both on the court and in his private life - and he quits again.

Now, I have a lot of respect for the man, but I think he should hang it up. He has recklessly abandoned his body over the years and doesn't have the right mentality For instance, Jerry Stackhouse fills the 'scoring punch off the bench' role in Milwaukee. the difference? Stackhouse agrees to the role and knows he's making the team better. So does Jason Terry in Dallas (he knows he will get his number called when they need him to start), Nate Rob in Boston ... AI would never do that - he's "All I".
There's a lot of buzz about him returning next year, but frankly, I don't think he should.

Should he hang it up?


Not to be rude, but I find it funny how you started this thread and have these things to say about AI, when your avatar is Stephon Marbury, the ultimate "me first player" because at least Iverson was a great player in his prime.

Anyway, right now Iverson seems to be laying low, taking care of business at home with his wife and kids. Yes she filled for divorce, but they are trying to work things out according to AI's agent and are still living together. Supposedly his daughter is also doing better, now AI has to find a way to kick the alcohol and he is getting help from John Thompson and David Stern. Hopefully AI get's his life back on track and this seems like a good start. If he can get control of his life, basketball won't matter, however maybe he can use this as a life lesson and it will also help him on the court. He still has the talent, he just needs the clarity because he is not 25 years old anymore. If AI gets his life together, who is to say he cannot make a comeback and do well, as a matter of fact I have a feeling he will be back next year and he will accept a lesser role and surprise everyone by coming back a better person.

Hope this happens.

JayAllDay
03-23-2010, 10:09 AM
He can probably still ball out of control, if he can feel the ground and air going through his nose. He needs to check into rehab, have an amicable end to the divorce and custody battle, and become re-motivated. Addiction is a mother****er, and if he has as many problems as they say then he's gonna have a hard time coming back.

That being said Stackhouse, Jason Terry, and Nate Robinson would perhaps come close to AI when their genes are spliced together.

mser58
03-23-2010, 10:46 AM
would love to see him hang it up...wanna remember him as a scorer but will always be remembered as a guy who could have been better if he put his all into the sport

td0tsfinest
03-23-2010, 10:54 AM
As much as I want AI to stay in the league and kind of redeem himself, he should heavily think about retiring.

This could be the off-season where we see two guys that I grew up idolizing hang up their shoes.

AIMelo=KillaDUO
03-23-2010, 11:17 AM
We all followed the situation.
Played his heart out in Philly. Took a bunch of role players to the Finals and scored like a madman.
Got traded to the Nuggets. Didn't understand how NOT to be the alpha dog and did not change his style of play.
Traded to the Pistons for Billups after Denver gave up on the AI-Melo project. Billups' steady veteran leadership and experience brought the Nuggets back to relevance. AI, meanwhile, is rotting in Detroit. His body language and attitude about coming off the bench raise a lot of eyebrows. Calls it quits a couple of weeks before the playoffs and leaves his team mates to drown. Doesn't even give it a try.

Summer of 09. Inks a 1-year contract with Memphis. A lot of people wonder why he doesn't start over Mike Conley. Quits on the team after 3 games off the bench. Pouts like a little girl and gets bought out. Flirts with the Knicks, but re-signs in Philly for the pro-rated veteran's minimum. Things don't go his way - both on the court and in his private life - and he quits again.

Now, I have a lot of respect for the man, but I think he should hang it up. He has recklessly abandoned his body over the years and doesn't have the right mentality For instance, Jerry Stackhouse fills the 'scoring punch off the bench' role in Milwaukee. the difference? Stackhouse agrees to the role and knows he's making the team better. So does Jason Terry in Dallas (he knows he will get his number called when they need him to start), Nate Rob in Boston ... AI would never do that - he's "All I".
There's a lot of buzz about him returning next year, but frankly, I don't think he should.

Should he hang it up?

I hate when people say that he couldn't play with Melo, when he could. He helped lead the Nuggets to they're Best record at that time in franchise history. That Nuggets squad didn't have the Kenyon we have now, we didn't have nene for that year and a half. Our starting PG was either Earl Boykins and Anthony Carter, JR Smith would be lucky to see that court on any given night. It was a very different team. people fail to understand that, His last full season healthy he averaged 27 and 7, don't get me wrong I love Chauncey, and happy he's on the Nuggets, and if this trade never woulda gone thru we wouldnt have acheived what we did last year or be where we're at today.

MaHaRaJaH
03-23-2010, 11:47 AM
Man I'd hate to end my career like that, I'd at least wanna make it looked like I died trying to play my *** off.

R_O_W_E
03-23-2010, 12:51 PM
He could play if he wanted too, there is nothing the end of his career would do to damage his legacy since he is the most controversial player in NBA History.

If he joined a team and came off the bench as a reserve, which he wont do. And he just so happened to win a title doing it, it wont change his legacy. For him he should just play if he has the love of the game, if he doesn't then he needs to stay retired.

Sadds The Gr8
03-23-2010, 01:09 PM
I've been saying that ever since he left Detroit last year that he should just be a 6th man and take a Ginobili/Terry/Crawford role for a pretty good team, and he would push them to an elite team (like Utah for example). I think he can easily drop 15-17 ppg if healthy and committed to playing TEAM BALL, not 1v1 ball. Too bad his ego won't let him accept a 6th man role, so I don't think he'll come back. Hopefully this divorce thing turns his mindset around, and he becomes a responsible/mature person and accepts any role given to him if he doesn't retire, because I still think he can play.

Chronz
03-23-2010, 01:43 PM
His best days came in Denver and he did change his style, it just wasnt enough. His Philly and MVP year are beyond overrated.

R_O_W_E
03-23-2010, 01:44 PM
His best days came in Denver and he did change his style, it just wasnt enough. His Philly and MVP year are beyond overrated.

How are they overrated?

lakerssssssss
03-23-2010, 01:49 PM
He should retire.

Mrphilly
03-23-2010, 02:25 PM
I hate when people say that he couldn't play with Melo, when he could. He helped lead the Nuggets to they're Best record at that time in franchise history. That Nuggets squad didn't have the Kenyon we have now, we didn't have nene for that year and a half. Our starting PG was either Earl Boykins and Anthony Carter, JR Smith would be lucky to see that court on any given night. It was a very different team. people fail to understand that, His last full season healthy he averaged 27 and 7, don't get me wrong I love Chauncey, and happy he's on the Nuggets, and if this trade never woulda gone thru we wouldnt have acheived what we did last year or be where we're at today.
Thank you for setting the record staight. This guy that started this thread claims to be a fan, but your AI recap is all wrong. Don't get me started on the title of this thread.

People act like AI to Denver was a disaster. They won 50+ games, Mello and Iverson were the highest scoring duo in the league. Those 2 guys were all they had. They lost to better teams in the playoffs(Lakers, Spurs)

The detroit deal was a money move, not a basketball move. Horrible coach that nobody respected, aging players. RIP cried when he didn't start, nobody is mentioning that.

Memphis would be in the playoff hunt, if you play AI over Conley Jr.

The philly situation proved that he can still play, he just took a backseat to overpaid bums. He brought energy and leadership to a sad and boring team.

Iverson is not an Angel, but he no where as bad as people make him out to be. I would love to see him play next year.

Mrphilly
03-23-2010, 02:29 PM
His best days came in Denver and he did change his style, it just wasnt enough. His Philly and MVP year are beyond overrated.

Please explain why you feel this way. You can't just throw a crazy comment out the like that and not back it up.

Chronz
03-23-2010, 02:29 PM
How are they overrated?

Because of the abused he took a bunch of role players to the finals routine, even though A) They had the best defense in the conference (something that AI contributed very little to), B) they won like every award that year, C) because of his lack of defensive presence, he was thoroughly outplayed by every teams opposing star in every series that year, and D) He won an MVP


Please explain why you feel this way. You can't just throw a crazy comment out the like that and not back it up.
Ive said this many times already, but whats crazy about it? You can be the best player in the history of the game and still be overrated.

IversonIsKrazy
03-23-2010, 03:18 PM
Because of the abused he took a bunch of role players to the finals routine, even though A) They had the best defense in the conference (something that AI contributed very little to), B) they won like every award that year, C) because of his lack of defensive presence, he was thoroughly outplayed by every teams opposing star in every series that year, and D) He won an MVP


Ive said this many times already, but whats crazy about it? You can be the best player in the history of the game and still be overrated.

And this is a guy who friggin loves T-Mac:rolleyes:, just don't understand this guy.

But yeah, AI needs to retire, I hate watching him mess up his career even more.

Chronz
03-23-2010, 03:20 PM
And this is a guy who friggin loves T-Mac:rolleyes:, just don't understand this guy.

But yeah, AI needs to retire, I hate watching him mess up his career even more.
What I dont get is how people could hate on AI in Denver when he played his best ball, but overrate him in Philly in his early (pre prime) form.

PS You dont understand because you have no idea how talented/productive Tmac was. Im telling you right now, we will probably never see that caliber of ball again, from a skillset, IQ and raw athletic standpoint in a supreme defensive era, its over. There are others who have scored as much and even created as many plays, but they didnt dominate from the perimeter like him. Literally unstoppable from anywhere on the court, got to the line, shot the 3 ball efficiently, midrange game, high assist # while maintaining a microscopic turnover rate, its just unheard of. We wont see anything like him for awhile.

THE MTL
03-23-2010, 05:34 PM
He should retire but he ABSOLUTELY cannot go out in this matter. His whole situation in Detroit and then making it worse in Memphis (not even playing) and finally a short-lived not-effective comeback in Philadelphia.

He MUST do one more year. His legacy owes him that. I say Iverson should join the Knicks for vet. min when they get there stacked 2010 summer team. Or join Miami wit Wade and whoever becomes Wade's sidekick (most likely Boozer).

SteveNash
03-23-2010, 05:35 PM
Played his heart out in Philly.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eGDBR2L5kzI


Took a bunch of role players to the Finals and scored like a madman.
You know a player is overrated when they only have one good playoff run to their name.


A lot of people wonder why he doesn't start over Mike Conley.
Because Conley is better.


Now, I have a lot of respect for the man, but I think he should hang it up. He has recklessly abandoned his body over the years and doesn't have the right mentality For instance, Jerry Stackhouse fills the 'scoring punch off the bench' role in Milwaukee. the difference? Stackhouse agrees to the role and knows he's making the team better. So does Jason Terry in Dallas (he knows he will get his number called when they need him to start), Nate Rob in Boston ... AI would never do that - he's "All I".
There's a lot of buzz about him returning next year, but frankly, I don't think he should.

AI was always the same player a cancer that ruined teams not helped them. He was exposed for the fraud that he was once teams figured out he could no longer draw tickets.

RaptorizedKevin
03-23-2010, 05:45 PM
he should sign to play PG for the knicks. at the vets minumum. camby hsould also sign for the vets min at the knicks, andso will mcgrady. and then they sign lebron and stoudemire.

iverson
mcgrady
lebron
studemire
camby

knicks will finalyl win a championship xD

JayW_1023
03-23-2010, 05:45 PM
A sad end note was when Stuckey crossed him up shortly after his Philly comeback.

"Stuckey EMBARRASSING the legend!"

MagicDojo
03-23-2010, 05:47 PM
He burned the last two teams that signed him cause he wants to start and play 45 minutes and he's not that guy anymore.

VCaintdead17
03-23-2010, 06:14 PM
What I dont get is how people could hate on AI in Denver when he played his best ball, but overrate him in Philly in his early (pre prime) form.

PS You dont understand because you have no idea how talented/productive Tmac was. Im telling you right now, we will probably never see that caliber of ball again, from a skillset, IQ and raw athletic standpoint in a supreme defensive era, its over. There are others who have scored as much and even created as many plays, but they didnt dominate from the perimeter like him. Literally unstoppable from anywhere on the court, got to the line, shot the 3 ball efficiently, midrange game, high assist # while maintaining a microscopic turnover rate, its just unheard of. We wont see anything like him for awhile.

But the fact that he has never finished a season, or even lead his team to the second round shows that he isn't as dominate as you say. While he is efficient, he can't carry a team.

jackdawson
03-23-2010, 06:25 PM
Iverson to knicks next year! No kidding.

thescore53
03-23-2010, 06:27 PM
whos everson

Raidaz4Life
03-23-2010, 06:28 PM
He is completely washed up... hang it up AI

Iodine
03-23-2010, 06:36 PM
Dear AI homers,

Its over, please stop now, goodbye.

and for the record the philly comeback was a joke and if he was in memphis zach randolph wouldnt have been an allstar

Chronz
03-23-2010, 06:40 PM
But the fact that he has never finished a season, or even lead his team to the second round shows that he isn't as dominate as you say. While he is efficient, he can't carry a team.
Show me how that he isnt as dominant? Playoff success is a function of the ability of your teammates vs the opposing team.

Look at AI, he was a MUCH better player in his later days and yet he failed to qualify for the playoffs a few years. Do you really think he wasnt as dominant? Or maybe theres more to the game than you think. LOL how can AI go from carrying "scrubs" to the Finals, yet fail to make the playoffs a few years later? Look at Kobe when he played with bums, arguably the best player in the game and he was losing in round1. Look at MJ when he dropped a playoff high 63 or whatever, he got swept. No matter how dominant 1 player may be, he needs help. Tmac in Orlando never had the help necessary to advance, so no, your wrong.

VCaintdead17
03-23-2010, 06:58 PM
Show me how that he isnt as dominant? Playoff success is a function of the ability of your teammates vs the opposing team.

Look at AI, he was a MUCH better player in his later days and yet he failed to qualify for the playoffs a few years. Do you really think he wasnt as dominant? Or maybe theres more to the game than you think. LOL how can AI go from carrying "scrubs" to the Finals, yet fail to make the playoffs a few years later? Look at Kobe when he played with bums, arguably the best player in the game and he was losing in round1. Look at MJ when he dropped a playoff high 63 or whatever, he got swept. No matter how dominant 1 player may be, he needs help. Tmac in Orlando never had the help necessary to advance, so no, your wrong.

I didn't even mention AI sooo.....


and yeah, he needs help, and he had it in Yao. If he is truely as "dominant" as you say, then there shouldn't be any excuses for him. Look at Lebron, in 06, the cavs second best player was Big Z has was having an average season, but yet, they made it to the finals.

avrpatsfan
03-23-2010, 07:01 PM
Iverson isn't great but he still is a solid player. The Nets could sure use him. He will be in the NBA next year. He won't start for sure.

Chronz
03-23-2010, 07:06 PM
I didn't even mention AI sooo.....
Then whats your basis for comparison?



and yeah, he needs help, and he had it in Yao.
Reading comprehension is your friend, by the time Yao was truly an impact player Tmac was no longer the same player. And even then no, I wont delve into the issue now, but just know your way of looking at the game (which is to mention 1 player) isnt the way execs/analyst think.


If he is truely as "dominant" as you say, then there shouldn't be any excuses for him.
Re-read the post


Look at Lebron, in 06, the cavs second best player was Big Z has was having an average season, but yet, they made it to the finals.
Thats because Bron is a better player, but dig deeper in your analysis, he had the support to atleast compete. His team was elite defensively, you know who Tmac's 2nd best player was in the year I was talking about? Heres a hint, he was Brons 4th option though probably his 3rd best player in that year you described. But Tmac had him as a rookie.

Clearly somethings not right in your description. If you think Z was simply average, you dont know how to quantify a players impact.

VCaintdead17
03-23-2010, 07:09 PM
Then whats your basis for comparison?



Reading comprehension is your friend, by the time Yao was truly an impact player Tmac was no longer the same player. And even then no, I wont delve into the issue now, but just know your way of looking at the game (which is to mention 1 player) isnt the way execs/analyst think.


Re-read the post


Thats because Bron is a better player, but dig deeper in your analysis, he had the support to atleast compete. His team was elite defensively, you know who Tmac's 2nd best player was in the year I was talking about? Heres a hint, he was Brons 4th option though probably his 3rd best player in that year you described. But Tmac had him as a rookie.

Clearly somethings not right in your description. If you think Z was simply average, you dont know how to quantify a players impact.

boner

daliLOLbagaric
03-23-2010, 07:16 PM
i had a bit of hope and i found myself supporting iverson when he went back to philly (i really wished him good and wanted him to finish his career off right)... but he's a lost cause really. it's just not in him anymore.

not only is he washed up but he doesn't have the same passion or focus he once had. it's game over for iverson.

_KB24_
03-23-2010, 07:28 PM
What I dont get is how people could hate on AI in Denver when he played his best ball, but overrate him in Philly in his early (pre prime) form.

PS You dont understand because you have no idea how talented/productive Tmac was. Im telling you right now, we will probably never see that caliber of ball again, from a skillset, IQ and raw athletic standpoint in a supreme defensive era, its over. There are others who have scored as much and even created as many plays, but they didnt dominate from the perimeter like him. Literally unstoppable from anywhere on the court, got to the line, shot the 3 ball efficiently, midrange game, high assist # while maintaining a microscopic turnover rate, its just unheard of. We wont see anything like him for awhile.

:laugh2:

Ever heard of that guy who plays on the Lakers?

From 00-04, the years McGrady was in Orlando, Kobe and him virtually had identical stats, and this was with Kobe playing as the second option. God knows the numbers he would be putting if he was the first option back then.

kblo247
03-23-2010, 09:29 PM
T-Mac lost his excuse card when he went to Houston and you know it Chronz.

You can say what would T-Mac have done with Shaq and maybe make an argument for them winning, but to do so you also would have to ask, what would Kobe have done with Yao?

I guarandamntee that Kobe would have gotten farther with Yao, Scola, Landry, Sura, Wesley, Barry, Battier, Alston, and so on all backing him up than Tracy ever did because not only were those guys talented but they were happy with their role and played hard regardless of shots and touches.

---

On the topic of AI, he ****ed himself. He has no one to blame but himself for his career being tarnished. He is the guy who didn't practice hard. He is the guy that was banished from 3 out of his last 4 teams. He is the guy who never committed to playing defense. He is the guy who wasted sidekick after sidekick.

AI is a hell of a talent, but he is also a loser plain and simple because he chose to be.

Chronz
03-23-2010, 10:03 PM
:laugh2:

Ever heard of that guy who plays on the Lakers?

From 00-04, the years McGrady was in Orlando, Kobe and him virtually had identical stats, and this was with Kobe playing as the second option. God knows the numbers he would be putting if he was the first option back then.
Except that they didnt and you have no idea what your talking about.


T-Mac lost his excuse card when he went to Houston and you know it Chronz.
Nope, explain it to me


You can say what would T-Mac have done with Shaq and maybe make an argument for them winning, but to do so you also would have to ask, what would Kobe have done with Yao?
Why?


I guarandamntee that Kobe would have gotten farther with Yao, Scola, Landry, Sura, Wesley, Barry, Battier, Alston, and so on all backing him up than Tracy ever did because not only were those guys talented but they were happy with their role and played hard regardless of shots and touches.
Well yea by the time Tmac got Scolandry, Battier, Alston he was no longer the same Tmac Im talking about. This is the problem with vague and nondescriptive analysis, they tend to be flawed. READING COMPREHENSION PEOPLE. He had 1 year where he was comparable to his prime form in H-Town before bad genetics altered his game but that was the year the team lost their starting PF, traded the insurance policy for him midway through the season (its why you saw a castaway starting for them, when they were already outmatched to begin with) and lost to a better team.

xabial
03-23-2010, 10:17 PM
Too many people are hung up about the past. He was a great player- Yes, one of the best in the game but its over ;)

MaHaRaJaH
03-23-2010, 11:31 PM
What I dont get is how people could hate on AI in Denver when he played his best ball, but overrate him in Philly in his early (pre prime) form.

PS You dont understand because you have no idea how talented/productive Tmac was. Im telling you right now, we will probably never see that caliber of ball again, from a skillset, IQ and raw athletic standpoint in a supreme defensive era, its over. There are others who have scored as much and even created as many plays, but they didnt dominate from the perimeter like him. Literally unstoppable from anywhere on the court, got to the line, shot the 3 ball efficiently, midrange game, high assist # while maintaining a microscopic turnover rate, its just unheard of. We wont see anything like him for awhile.
And Toronto let all that go -sigh-

MaHaRaJaH
03-23-2010, 11:35 PM
Show me how that he isnt as dominant? Playoff success is a function of the ability of your teammates vs the opposing team.

Look at AI, he was a MUCH better player in his later days and yet he failed to qualify for the playoffs a few years. Do you really think he wasnt as dominant? Or maybe theres more to the game than you think. LOL how can AI go from carrying "scrubs" to the Finals, yet fail to make the playoffs a few years later? Look at Kobe when he played with bums, arguably the best player in the game and he was losing in round1. Look at MJ when he dropped a playoff high 63 or whatever, he got swept. No matter how dominant 1 player may be, he needs help. Tmac in Orlando never had the help necessary to advance, so no, your wrong.

Totally agree with that, one man cannot run the show. One man is not 5 team players combined. MJ and the Bulls won because they were a _good_ team, Kobe and company won because they were a _good_ team.

_KB24_
03-23-2010, 11:45 PM
Except that they didnt and you have no idea what your talking about.

Do you mind explaining Einstein? :eyebrow:

mr_relevant
03-24-2010, 04:18 AM
Sucks. His career could've been a whole lot better.

heathonater
03-24-2010, 04:25 AM
he really needs to get his personal life together before he evere plays again. gambling and alcohol addictions can ruin one's life, i just hope he gets over these addictions and live a good life.

AIMelo=KillaDUO
03-24-2010, 11:28 AM
A sad end note was when Stuckey crossed him up shortly after his Philly comeback.

"Stuckey EMBARRASSING the legend!"

AI crossed Jordan as a Rookie....

A no-namer Mexican guy in the Olympics, shook Kobe outta his Nike Zoom's, Whats your point?

C-Dub
03-24-2010, 12:10 PM
He should retire.

Any Lakers/Kobe fan would say that lol. As for me, a monster AI fan, Im kinda torn. I do feel like AI can still be a major part of a championship team, i really do, but I dont know how he fits anywhere right now. Hes limited, and he does need to reprove himself to be the kind of player that can lead a team, if thats what he is choosing to want to do.

Philly- Crazy good and lb for lb the best player in the NBA at the time (even BETTER than kobe). single handedly took his team to the finals and lost to kobe AND shaq.

Denver- still a crazy good player, took denver to their best season in a looooong time. Melo and him average insane numbers together. if the team would have had a better PG than AC at the time, they woulda got passed the first round easily. NO THE EXPERIMENT WAS NOT A FAILURE.

Detroit- Thrown into a system that was completely different than his style of play. This was NOT his fault. Went to a team that is more team oriented, more defensive. AI likes to be the man, as stated, and although everyone thinks its so easy to change your style of play, it really isnt. He tried to fit in and was thrown onto the bench where he didnt feel like he deserved to be. After averaging 27 and 6-7 assists a game my whole career i wouldnt take a bench role either. Dumars screwed AI by bringing him to Detroit and then AI took the heat for it.

Memphis- A team that I thought hed be great with ended very shortly. By far better than Conley and better than OJ (AI wannabe). Should and was promised to get a starting role. Once he started playing, what happens? the coach makes him sit the bench, wants him to be a bench player. AI went there on terms that hed get to start, get to contribute in a big way, get to teach the young players how its done. But, they lied to him and he felt like he wasnt wanted.

Philly- A nice young team where Iggy is finally showing some skill set, compared to the first time AI was in Philly at least. Up tempo style of play, everything seems like itll work out great. Gets to start whenever hes around, Is happy with his minutes, loves the city, everything. But then what happens? His daughter gets very ill. His wife threatens to leave him. All the sudden basketball isnt as important to him as his personal life. How can you blame him for that? TELL ME. seriously, you guys dont even put yourself in his shoes.

I think he still can play, of course. It wont be easy to find a team, ill give you guys that, but even dalembert himself said THIS season that AI was a different player on the court, wasnt the dominate scorer, but was looking to find teamates more. With how rosters are currently set up, one of the only places that I, as a die hard AI fan, can see him fitting and contributing and making an impact in a starting lineup, is Toronto. Thats just right now.

PG Calderon/ Jack- Both average scorers, great passers, can hit the 3s.

SG AI/Bellinelli/Derozan- All can score, AI can teach them more of that :)

SF Hedo, whoever - good passer and shooter

PF Bosh/ Amir -scoring and rebounding, defense

C Bargnani/ whoever else - 3's, defense, rebounding.

just feels like itd be a good vibe for him there, and hed look good in a toronto jersey imo

C-Dub
03-24-2010, 12:15 PM
AiMelo= I know youll love to read that ;)

DitchDat
03-24-2010, 12:29 PM
Any Lakers/Kobe fan would say that lol. As for me, a monster AI fan, Im kinda torn. I do feel like AI can still be a major part of a championship team, i really do, but I dont know how he fits anywhere right now. Hes limited, and he does need to reprove himself to be the kind of player that can lead a team, if thats what he is choosing to want to do.

Philly- Crazy good and lb for lb the best player in the NBA at the time (even BETTER than kobe). single handedly took his team to the finals and lost to kobe AND shaq.

Denver- still a crazy good player, took denver to their best season in a looooong time. Melo and him average insane numbers together. if the team would have had a better PG than AC at the time, they woulda got passed the first round easily. NO THE EXPERIMENT WAS NOT A FAILURE.

Detroit- Thrown into a system that was completely different than his style of play. This was NOT his fault. Went to a team that is more team oriented, more defensive. AI likes to be the man, as stated, and although everyone thinks its so easy to change your style of play, it really isnt. He tried to fit in and was thrown onto the bench where he didnt feel like he deserved to be. After averaging 27 and 6-7 assists a game my whole career i wouldnt take a bench role either. Dumars screwed AI by bringing him to Detroit and then AI took the heat for it.

Memphis- A team that I thought hed be great with ended very shortly. By far better than Conley and better than OJ (AI wannabe). Should and was promised to get a starting role. Once he started playing, what happens? the coach makes him sit the bench, wants him to be a bench player. AI went there on terms that hed get to start, get to contribute in a big way, get to teach the young players how its done. But, they lied to him and he felt like he wasnt wanted.

Philly- A nice young team where Iggy is finally showing some skill set, compared to the first time AI was in Philly at least. Up tempo style of play, everything seems like itll work out great. Gets to start whenever hes around, Is happy with his minutes, loves the city, everything. But then what happens? His daughter gets very ill. His wife threatens to leave him. All the sudden basketball isnt as important to him as his personal life. How can you blame him for that? TELL ME. seriously, you guys dont even put yourself in his shoes.

I think he still can play, of course. It wont be easy to find a team, ill give you guys that, but even dalembert himself said THIS season that AI was a different player on the court, wasnt the dominate scorer, but was looking to find teamates more. With how rosters are currently set up, one of the only places that I, as a die hard AI fan, can see him fitting and contributing and making an impact in a starting lineup, is Toronto. Thats just right now.

PG Calderon/ Jack- Both average scorers, great passers, can hit the 3s.

SG AI/Bellinelli/Derozan- All can score, AI can teach them more of that :)

SF Hedo, whoever - good passer and shooter

PF Bosh/ Amir -scoring and rebounding, defense

C Bargnani/ whoever else - 3's, defense, rebounding.

just feels like itd be a good vibe for him there, and hed look good in a toronto jersey imo

That'd be one defensively challenged backcourt.

C-Dub
03-24-2010, 12:37 PM
nothing that it already isnt, so your point is?

ivylleague1'
03-24-2010, 01:36 PM
nothing that it already isnt, so your point is?


Iverson is the greatest !!! (When healthy and in top form) Make no mistake about that !!!! He must stay away from alcohol and any substance abuse and other forms of distraction and practice his shots and moves. More than a million voters cannot be wrong.
I will recommend Dallas, Nuggets, and SanAntonio for him. He can start and help these teams win the championship.

C-Dub
03-24-2010, 01:46 PM
the nuggets would not take him back as long as affalo and smith are there. dallas has terry and butler now, and san antonio might work, although ginobli would get most of the minutes which may be ok for iverson right now, but a small lineup would have AI, Parker, and Ginobli all in at the same time. idk thats kinda blah too if you think about it, cuz hill is there too.
being a nugget fan i would love to see him there again tho, with billups running the show it would actually work out better i think. but i highly doubt it would happen.

xbrackattackx
03-24-2010, 02:04 PM
If he will work hard to get his body back in the shape it was, And take a lesser role on a contender, 20-25 mins a night. He could have 2-3 more seasons that are Good/Descent. Look at Stackhouse on the bucks he is killing it in his few mins. played and hes 36.

ghostofalleiter
03-24-2010, 02:10 PM
i've always thought he was an extremely overrated option. those philly teams were built for him to dominate the ball and to play great defense. it was like getting together a team of scrappy defenders and poor shooters, except you simply bundle all the shooters together in one inefficient package. sure he averaged plenty of points, but the amount of usage was not efficient. he never learned how to apply his skills to the conventional NBA format. better in denver, but age certainly caught up with him on the defensive end. he is the prototypical stats player, the kind of guy i hope people like monta ellis doesn't turn into. is he supremely talented? yes. one of the most talented players ever to play? in terms of pure skills, it's certainly possible. i think though, in terms of his impact on the game, he is one of the most overrated stars in NBA history.

chronz is right about the things he's saying, i love the haters. look at him back those stats up. the only people touchier than iverson homers are kobe homers....

tracy mcgrady got so royally shafted during his orlando days that it's almost criminal. orlando should keep paying him. if ya'll weren't paying attention at the time or can't remember how good he was in his prime, watch a knicks game now. the guy still passes and rebounds at a great level for a 6 8 forward. he was better than kobe bryant for a few years, not that it matters. i think both kobe and tmac would agree that kobe got the better deal for his career. so don't cry kobe-faithful it's just an observation.

Raph12
03-24-2010, 02:11 PM
Should've had another option.

Maybe "He had a great career and will retire as one of, if not the, greatest Sixer of all-time"

Felice067
03-24-2010, 02:12 PM
AI was awesome when he was in his 1st stint with the Sixers. He was their team, he was exciting, he brought fans to the game and he was one of the leagues best players. To bad the sixers could not get any good players in there to play with him. The sixers tried to bring in glen robinson and keith van horn but they sucked. The Chris Webber experiment didn't go well either. Don't forget he brought the sixers to the finals with a bunch of mediocre players, and that was about the last time the sixers were worth watching...just throwing that out there

coloradobuff
03-24-2010, 02:41 PM
man his hoop skills diminished quickly..too bad...hope his daughters health condition improves.

C-Dub
03-24-2010, 02:53 PM
what makes everyone think his skills have diminished so much? the last 2 years hes either been out so long that hes most likely just rusty, or is on a team that plays completely different then him. averaging 17 and 5 or whatever with detroit was not bad considering the changes he tried to do while he was there. its ok for kg or pp to average that and they are still elite but when AI does it he just plain sucks? what does that tell you? that people know hes good and better than that, or at least thats what i get out of it.

Iodine
03-24-2010, 03:12 PM
Iverson is the greatest !!! (When healthy and in top form) Make no mistake about that !!!! He must stay away from alcohol and any substance abuse and other forms of distraction and practice his shots and moves. More than a million voters cannot be wrong.
I will recommend Dallas, Nuggets, and SanAntonio for him. He can start and help these teams win the championship.
Im assuming your name is intended to be a joke considering how hard you fail. I think a blind and deaf sea lion is a better talent evaluator

DitchDat
03-24-2010, 03:15 PM
what makes everyone think his skills have diminished so much? the last 2 years hes either been out so long that hes most likely just rusty, or is on a team that plays completely different then him. averaging 17 and 5 or whatever with detroit was not bad considering the changes he tried to do while he was there. its ok for kg or pp to average that and they are still elite but when AI does it he just plain sucks? what does that tell you? that people know hes good and better than that, or at least thats what i get out of it.

Son, the difference is that KG and PP didn't pout about different roles. I'm not saying he has to drop 30 a game like he did in his prime, but he still WANTS to drop 30 a game. He thinks it is the way to win... how stubborn is he if he still wants to believe that????

Don't compare the situations. There was a time when the Celtics were on the verge of acquiring Iverson, and it gave me the shivers. Theres no way in hell he would have done the same things for us KG did.

Chronz
03-24-2010, 03:44 PM
Do you mind explaining Einstein? :eyebrow:
Im so hungover right now I was trying to find an old post that explained everything in detail but the gist of it gos, he was better at basically every aspect of the game offensively. If your going to say he handled the ball more then it makes it all the more impressive that his turnover rate lower. Added to the fact that he didnt have the worlds greatest finisher to draw attention and by your admission carried the bigger load, yet still remained the more efficient scorer and passer adds to his greatness.

King Drew
03-24-2010, 04:03 PM
i think if he just played and stopped being so dramatic he can still do some damage as a starter or off the bench.

JLynn943
03-24-2010, 04:26 PM
I'd love to see him redeem himself, but he needs to get his life in order before he even thinks about coming back.

kblo247
03-24-2010, 04:38 PM
Any Lakers/Kobe fan would say that lol. As for me, a monster AI fan, Im kinda torn. I do feel like AI can still be a major part of a championship team, i really do, but I dont know how he fits anywhere right now. Hes limited, and he does need to reprove himself to be the kind of player that can lead a team, if thats what he is choosing to want to do.

Philly- Crazy good and lb for lb the best player in the NBA at the time (even BETTER than kobe). single handedly took his team to the finals and lost to kobe AND shaq.

Denver- still a crazy good player, took denver to their best season in a looooong time. Melo and him average insane numbers together. if the team would have had a better PG than AC at the time, they woulda got passed the first round easily. NO THE EXPERIMENT WAS NOT A FAILURE.

Detroit- Thrown into a system that was completely different than his style of play. This was NOT his fault. Went to a team that is more team oriented, more defensive. AI likes to be the man, as stated, and although everyone thinks its so easy to change your style of play, it really isnt. He tried to fit in and was thrown onto the bench where he didnt feel like he deserved to be. After averaging 27 and 6-7 assists a game my whole career i wouldnt take a bench role either. Dumars screwed AI by bringing him to Detroit and then AI took the heat for it.

Memphis- A team that I thought hed be great with ended very shortly. By far better than Conley and better than OJ (AI wannabe). Should and was promised to get a starting role. Once he started playing, what happens? the coach makes him sit the bench, wants him to be a bench player. AI went there on terms that hed get to start, get to contribute in a big way, get to teach the young players how its done. But, they lied to him and he felt like he wasnt wanted.

Philly- A nice young team where Iggy is finally showing some skill set, compared to the first time AI was in Philly at least. Up tempo style of play, everything seems like itll work out great. Gets to start whenever hes around, Is happy with his minutes, loves the city, everything. But then what happens? His daughter gets very ill. His wife threatens to leave him. All the sudden basketball isnt as important to him as his personal life. How can you blame him for that? TELL ME. seriously, you guys dont even put yourself in his shoes.

I think he still can play, of course. It wont be easy to find a team, ill give you guys that, but even dalembert himself said THIS season that AI was a different player on the court, wasnt the dominate scorer, but was looking to find teamates more. With how rosters are currently set up, one of the only places that I, as a die hard AI fan, can see him fitting and contributing and making an impact in a starting lineup, is Toronto. Thats just right now.

PG Calderon/ Jack- Both average scorers, great passers, can hit the 3s.

SG AI/Bellinelli/Derozan- All can score, AI can teach them more of that :)

SF Hedo, whoever - good passer and shooter

PF Bosh/ Amir -scoring and rebounding, defense

C Bargnani/ whoever else - 3's, defense, rebounding.

just feels like itd be a good vibe for him there, and hed look good in a toronto jersey imo

Phili - He was banished from there as his time came to a close. He questioned the importance of practice and basically didn't lead without Larry Brown holding his hand. He went through Van Horn, Stackhouse, Hughes, Webber, Robinson, and Kukoc all of whom were brought in to be his sidekick because his game never clicked with theirs. The fact it didn't click is partially to blame on the fact he admittedly didn't practice hard and never built that chemistry with them.

Denver - Don't just blame it all on a PG. Billups went to the same, if not a lesser team that AI played on with Camby being replaced by Birdman. The difference was that he took over the PG spot. AI never could carry that spot or the majority of the ball handling because he always had trouble blending how much holding on to the ball is too much. He also hurt the team by being an awful defender and basically playing take a turn with Melo on the offensive end instead of playing together with him.

Detroit - They weren't a match made in heaven, but AI was damn sure not worthy of being the starting SG on that squad. That was Rip's job. You can make the argument that he should have started over Stuckey and I would partially agree but I get them wanting to groom Stuckey to be able to be the PG of the future. It was a case of the wrong place and the wrong time, but AI wasn't a professional there which has always been one of his biggest knocks.

Memphis - He shouldn't have started over Mayo since Mayo is the better player when you take into account defense. I had no problem with him starting over Conley if he changed his game but he didn't. The Griz with Randolph, an improved Gasol, Gay, and a sophomore in Mayo needed a distributor in the first 5 not a gunner. AI was a cancer and malcontent there and Gay admitted that fact on Fan Night when he said he was glad he was gone and that Zach Randolph of all people was staying in the young guys ear and telling them to but into what the coach was trying to tell them so they can win. Like it or not, Memphis's record with AI having no part of their roster shouldn't be ignored as they are better winners without him.

Phili - No comment really as he really wasn't in shape and has a lot of excess baggage from stuff outside of basketball.

Fact is that AI put AI where he is. He never learned how to tame his own ego to win. Had he been able to actually be part of a team and not just a member of a team he would be a lot better off. Yes, he still can contribute to a team but don't kid yourself in thinking that any winning team needs an Allen Iverson trying to relive his past glory. Simply put, as hard as he plays on the floor for 48 minutes doesn't negate how incredibly hard it is to win with him and his attitude which is why no real contender will touch him without the ability to waive him at a moments notice.

3RDASYSTEM
03-24-2010, 04:50 PM
Yo CHRONZ i gotta agree wit ya on how good TMAC(He was ice cold killer) was and how it takes more than ''ONE'' player to take a team to FINALS...its funny how we talking about a 14yr vet being washed up...do you guys play any ball/sport? If MAGIC/JORDAN/SHAQ/KAREEM/BIRD and whoever fell off after 12yrs of playing how is AI an xception? How many players in the history of any major sport carried a franchise and made'em relevant for over a decade? I usta always tell people if SHAQ had TMAC/AI/PIERCE over in LA land it would have been more titles cuz AI/TMAC aint built like that MJ clone fella....Just like AI's agent FAULK said ''his knee is shot"...not his game at all...i've never seen a guy being forced to bench cuz he hasnt changed his game, did SHAQ start over Z and they won 66games last yr with him as starter? certain things in life is principle especially in big biz and theres no way in hell CONLEY need to be starting over anyone on this forum to be honest or STUCKEY, cuz when they had told AI he was replacing BILLUPS as starter/leader and would never disrepect his career(CURRY told him and RIP this in closed meeting)by bringing him off bench...but for a guy to be 3rd in league scoring in 08 and then go to a team nxt yr and avg 14shots per game(after RIP told him to his face he'll b lucky to get 12per game in that boring DET system)how did he fall off? To me thats adjusting your game and he still got destroyed for changing his game, some of you guys on here are pure comedy on certain quotes and analysis....

*76ERS* - Nobody played harder with that type of natural talent and nobody could stop him...fearless,fast,hard is how he has played since 93(go YOUTUBE his AAU mix)...it makes me sick when people talk about best athletes and they fail to mention this guy who was a 5star talent in BASE/FOOT/BASKETBALL....he was left for dead when he didnt want to conform to corporate and be new face of league after MJ retired and that pissed off STERN and rest of his corporate sponsors but he ushered in big time youth HIP HOP crowd and in any biz,MONEY IS MONEY, and he was electric while being no bigger than most of us so who wouldnt wanna go watch a person they size dominant a big man league?...trust me blackballin doesnt only happen in MLB(BONDS)....and for all you big time sports people on here go back and look at the 1997-02 draft and look at who they drafted and ''WHO'' they passed up...never ever again will we see a 5''10 shooting guard, he's the most unique player in history of NBA(OK,TOP 3)...Everybody athlete or not does it they way, why do TIGER/MJ/SHAQ/FAVRE and whoever do it they way they get props? but when the ''HOOD'' do it they say its ''SELFISH'' and ''CANCEROUS'' ....Also can anybody on here xplain how in the world do you triple team(JORDAN RULES) a guy under 6ft? i mean i can understand SHAQ/DUNCAN/JORDAN/KOBE/LEBRON/HOWARD but they are all 6''6 to 7ft...why yall think he shot a low field goal pct? its hard to shoot over 2/3 trees every possession and even harder when you have no other go to scoring partner(in 98 they passed up on P.PIERCE...wat a lame GM)...Also how good is your defense supposed to be when your relied on to drop 30/40/50per game and lead the league 3strait yrs in steals(NBA RECORD)....and also he played thru alot of injuries that most sit out nowadays...he's just built diff. rather ya like it or not

*NUGGETS* - Melo wasnt there when trade first happened and no training camp so i only count his 08 season where they won 50games....how in the hell is one yr of playing with someone a failure? MAGIC JOHNSON and 08 CELTICS is only team/player i can recall to win it all in first yr/time around,if ya know any more hit me with names....him and MELO were 3/4 in league scoring and they were only scorers cuz JR was still finding his niche and NENE didnt play at all in 08 and him and AI showed decent chemistry in 07 late down stretch and in playoffs, plus KMART was just gettin his knees back in order(he still hasnt recovered fully), plus he had to man the backcourt with AC....now AC comes off bench for DEN,go figure....and those 50 games won was during what most of these so called xperts dubbed the toughest the WEST had been during the entire history of NBA....im not making xcuses...wat im saying is all documented...Plus with his sidekick MELO he was more effecient and i wanna say his FG PCT was higher than KOBE/TMAC and many others who shot better previous yrs but i use to say its because he had no other options so he had to take triple teamed shots/late in shot clock/being option #1-4 and alwayz the smallest guy on the court

DET - He took 14shots per game and thats not changing your game up for sake of the team/system after taking 23 and 19per game in PHI/DEN? he would come down and sometimes not ''TOUCH'' the ball for like 5/6 strait possessions...how can a 4time scoring champ not touch the ball that many possessions in a row? can yall imagine how effective LEBRON/KOBE/PIERCE/MELO etc....would be if they were told they might get 12shots per game or 14per?not very at all....everybody said he fell off and im thinkin how many points would anyone avg with those attempts...probably right around 18ppg and no more than 20ppg and i think he avg like 17.5....please study and ''PLAY'' sports before speaking on nothing ya really kno about...

DitchDat
03-24-2010, 05:50 PM
I did not AT ALL say that he was washed up because his scoring went down, all I'm saying is that his attitude about getting fewer touches was childish. He dropped 50 PPG for 14 years, and didn't win anything.... If a healthy, in-his-prime Iverson couldn't work miracles, then he sure wasn't gonna do it now. To me, it was never about the scoring, it's about accepting a lesser role for the better of the team. Can you imagine if he willingly accepted a sixth man role or a situational scorer role? He's a whiny, over-his-prime superstar that scores at an extremely inefficient clip and plays zero defense. We all love the guy for what he did, but his 'meant to be the alpha dog' act has worn tin and is quite frankly, quite pathetic. I mean come on, even black holes like Z-Bo and Jamal Crawford have found ways to contribute, and they're like AI's shoe laces. Don't get in here talking him up because I bet even he knows he mishandled the whole thing.

BenFrank
03-24-2010, 06:00 PM
I hate how the votin was on here.. callin him washed up.. this a future HOF we're talkin bout show some respect.. it should be more like should he retire and end a great career!!! which I think he should

C-Dub
03-24-2010, 06:57 PM
Don't get in here talking him up because I bet even he knows he mishandled the whole thing.

dont come in here talking him down either like thats the only truth, your thread was made knowing people were going to voice their opinions. everyone knows that he is a great player, and if this happened to your fav player that you too would be defending that player.
did he mishandle the situation in detroit and memphis? yes. im not even going to count philly because he was injured and has major family issues right now. but yes, he did act immature towards the situation. was he screwed over though? id have to think so, even the slightest bit of lying on terms of playing time or the infamous starting role could make someone not want to play. i get that, i play basketball.
i agree he could have handled it better, but dont agree that he is "washed up" or "too old" to still be a great starter in this league. look at grant hill, shaq, and everyone in AIs draft class. too old and washed up? i dont think so. he has a couple bad years and cuz he dont produce the type of numbers you think he should be then hes washed up. your criticizing him in ways that he cant win.
3rdsystem is right, he did play for the pistons the way they wanted, were they successful? NO. was it all AIs fault? not at all. dumars is the **** who traded his glue and all around best player who is known for running a team in a team oriented way, no star players. Ai came in and did what he could taking less shots and looking for open players. AI is most effective when he can be AI and do what he does best.
I think the problem is that he does need to be able to play his way and its hard to just throw him into a team. Players dont just change. That is why it is hard for him right now. The same thing people wanted him on their team for when he was younger is whats hurting him right now.
Will he be back, i think yes. will be score 25+, probably not. does that mean hes washed up? no. maybe hes trying to be more of that role player that you all talk about.

*Superman*
03-24-2010, 07:08 PM
That's pretty catchy...BYEverson.

Kakaroach
03-24-2010, 07:16 PM
Unfortunately his NBA career is most likely over. Kinda sad the way it ended.

_KB24_
03-24-2010, 08:57 PM
Im so hungover right now I was trying to find an old post that explained everything in detail but the gist of it gos, he was better at basically every aspect of the game offensively. If your going to say he handled the ball more then it makes it all the more impressive that his turnover rate lower. Added to the fact that he didnt have the worlds greatest finisher to draw attention and by your admission carried the bigger load, yet still remained the more efficient scorer and passer adds to his greatness.

I've already said that their numbers are near identical. TMAC in Orlando was at Kobe's level in terms of offensive skill. Kobe was always the better defender and their isn't even an argument. What gives the edge to Kobe is faced tougher competition than McGrady and still had virtually the exact same numbers, even though McGrady played in the extremely weak East and was in the same divison as teams like WAS and MIA. Not to mention that dreaded 18 game losing streak and ZERO playoff success in a sorry *** conference.

Chronz
03-24-2010, 09:18 PM
I've already said that their numbers are near identical.
Yea I know and you were wrong, they arent even close.


TMAC in Orlando was at Kobe's level in terms of offensive skill.
He was well above him


Kobe was always the better defender and their isn't even an argument.
Which is why Im talking about offense, but still its probably closer than you think, Tmac has always played lock down D in the playoffs and when motivated by a marque matchup


What gives the edge to Kobe is faced tougher competition than McGrady and still had virtually the exact same numbers, even though McGrady played in the extremely weak East
You cant just say it gives him the edge and provide no insight as to why and how it effects them. A gap this big in production and efficiency isnt drastically altered by a change in conference.
Its so obvious you dont know jack about #'s. What is playing in the east suppose to say? Why were Kobe's #'s lower against the East while Tmacs were lower against the West? It really doesnt make a difference, both conferences had great defensive teams. The real difference was that Tmac didnt have the best finisher in the game to act as a decoy for his drives.


and was in the same divison as teams like WAS and MIA.
WOW thats really telling you just listed 2 teams whos combined defensive efficiency stands around league average, meanwhile the Warriors (Worst defensive team in the league) and Clippers (5th worst) were clearly powerhouses in Kobes division right. :rolleyes:


Not to mention that dreaded 18 game losing streak and ZERO playoff success in a sorry *** conference.

That you have put no effort into analyzing, Kobe has gone on a 2-19 streak so whats your point? Sorry *** conference is mitigated by having sorry *** teammates. Id rather play in a harder conference with better teammates than know I have no chance.

tbuk100
03-24-2010, 09:33 PM
As a Spurs fan in 05 & 07, I was thankful that AI was on the Nuggets team. Spurs would never have won the series without A.I. taking a bulk of the shots and shooting 30%. Duncan could not handle Nene, but Nene hardly got the ball because A.I. had to take all the shots. Melo was playing lights out, but didn't get as many shots because A.I. kept shooting. Plus, A.I. couldn't guard either Manu or Parker.

Denver had the talent to beat the Spurs, but couldn't do it. Now most of this problem lies with George Karl for not controlling Iverson or taking him out of the game.

To me, A.I. personifies the 'me first' slump the NBA went through a couple of years ago when it was putting up a crappy product. I hope his daughter recovers nicely and he gets his personal life together. But basketball-wise, I'll be glad to see him gone and stay gone.

lakerssssssss
03-24-2010, 09:54 PM
Any Lakers/Kobe fan would say that lol.

The only player I like better than Iverson is Kobe. I am a huuuuuuuuuuuuge Iverson fan,which is why I hope he retires.

The Detroit year wasn't his fault, and I hoped that year was just an aberration, and Iverson was not on the decline.

Memphis disgraced him by not putting him in the starting lineup, and I was glad he left Memphis and went to Philly.

On Philadelphia, he was put in the starting lineup, and one thing became very clear to me. Iverson was nowhere near the player that he once was. He is still a very good player,but I believe the only way he could be effective is by playing off the bench. Iverson will never come off the bench, so no team will offer him a contract.

It is sad that Iverson has to end his career like this, but one positive thing is he returned to Philly, and he could retire in the uniform that he played his best in.

Don't get me wrong. I want Iverson to play, but given his circumstances, I don't think any team will want him, and I hate seeing Iverson disgraced like that. This is why I hope he retires.

C-Dub
03-24-2010, 10:11 PM
wow a lakers fan that i like haha dont happen very often being a nuggets and AI fan! ill agree with you that he should retire just to have peace in his life, he deserves it.

I do however want him to come back and just play a descent year, not even a great one, just a good one so that critics layoff of him. You never know what will happen this offseason cuz of all the big names and good FAs out there, maybe a team will end up needing AI for nothing else but scoring, just never know what will happen.

C-Dub
03-24-2010, 10:13 PM
dont even get me started on Tmac either haha hes my 2nd fav player :smoking:

BkOriginalOne
03-24-2010, 10:17 PM
I think he can still be a valuable scorer off the pine. No longer as a starter (as least not the way the rosters are now). It's sad because he is def my fav player of the last 10 years or so.

DitchDat
03-25-2010, 08:17 AM
dont come in here talking him down either like thats the only truth, your thread was made knowing people were going to voice their opinions. everyone knows that he is a great player, and if this happened to your fav player that you too would be defending that player.
did he mishandle the situation in detroit and memphis? yes. im not even going to count philly because he was injured and has major family issues right now. but yes, he did act immature towards the situation. was he screwed over though? id have to think so, even the slightest bit of lying on terms of playing time or the infamous starting role could make someone not want to play. i get that, i play basketball.
i agree he could have handled it better, but dont agree that he is "washed up" or "too old" to still be a great starter in this league. look at grant hill, shaq, and everyone in AIs draft class. too old and washed up? i dont think so. he has a couple bad years and cuz he dont produce the type of numbers you think he should be then hes washed up. your criticizing him in ways that he cant win.
3rdsystem is right, he did play for the pistons the way they wanted, were they successful? NO. was it all AIs fault? not at all. dumars is the **** who traded his glue and all around best player who is known for running a team in a team oriented way, no star players. Ai came in and did what he could taking less shots and looking for open players. AI is most effective when he can be AI and do what he does best.
I think the problem is that he does need to be able to play his way and its hard to just throw him into a team. Players dont just change. That is why it is hard for him right now. The same thing people wanted him on their team for when he was younger is whats hurting him right now.
Will he be back, i think yes. will be score 25+, probably not. does that mean hes washed up? no. maybe hes trying to be more of that role player that you all talk about.

Sure, a team will bring him in for his defense

NetsPaint
03-25-2010, 02:23 PM
Surely he'd be a better starter on the Lakers than Derrick Fisher.

DitchDat
03-25-2010, 04:19 PM
Surely he'd be a better starter on the Lakers than Derrick Fisher.

If anything, the Lakers need a defense-oriented point guard who can occasionally knock down shots. They do not need a ball-hogging, no-defense-at-all SG-playing-PG at the helm.

I'm sorry, but that'd be the worst possible fit for the Lakers

NetsPaint
03-25-2010, 07:42 PM
Iverson proved he's willing to pass the ball this season.I don't think that's an issue anymore.Defense, maybe, but he could play PG.

kblo247
03-25-2010, 08:06 PM
Surely he'd be a better starter on the Lakers than Derrick Fisher.

it's DEREK FISHER

Is he as clutch as Fisher? No
Is he as good as a leader as Fisher? No
Is he as hard a worker as Fisher? No
Is he as unselfish as Fisher and will he accept 20 minutes on some nights? No
Is he a better defender than Fisher in his career or as of today? No

He can score more than Fish, handle the ball better, and has more god given talent but just is nowhere near the player mentality wise or fit that Fisher is for this team, for Phil, for Kobe, or was for the 3 peat teams.

AI can't be a triangle PG or SG. He might be a gunner off the bench like Shannon or Farmar but that is all.

DitchDat
03-26-2010, 03:31 AM
it's DEREK FISHER

Is he as clutch as Fisher? No
Is he as good as a leader as Fisher? No
Is he as hard a worker as Fisher? No
Is he as unselfish as Fisher and will he accept 20 minutes on some nights? No
Is he a better defender than Fisher in his career or as of today? No

He can score more than Fish, handle the ball better, and has more god given talent but just is nowhere near the player mentality wise or fit that Fisher is for this team, for Phil, for Kobe, or was for the 3 peat teams.

AI can't be a triangle PG or SG. He might be a gunner off the bench like Shannon or Farmar but that is all.

co-sign on AI being a bad fit and people needing to get player's names correct