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beardown78
03-21-2010, 03:25 AM
This isn't A bash thread because I personally like Rondo as A player but I just wanted your thoughts on why is Rondo considered an elite point guard in the NBA and his numbers aren't very eye popping at 13ppg and 9 apg

1-800-STFU
03-21-2010, 03:27 AM
You're right its not a bash thread, it's a bait thread.

On that note, Rose > Rondo.

beardown78
03-21-2010, 03:35 AM
You're right its not a bash thread, it's a bait thread.

On that note, Rose > Rondo.

Its not baiting either I was just curious to know if he's considered top tier such as Paul,Deron,NashBillups or second tier such as Wesbrook,Parker,Aaron Brooks,Rose,Nelson or Mo Williams

The SportsKing
03-21-2010, 03:35 AM
You're right its not a bash thread, it's a bait thread.

On that note, Rose > Rondo.

i take that back you get the epic fail of the day :facepalm:

so far rose showed me nothing and rondo has! Rondo is showing why he dont need the big 3s help! and if Rose is so great how come the bulls are not a playoff team? answer me that hmmmm?

1-800-STFU
03-21-2010, 03:37 AM
:facepalm: i take that back you get the epic fail of the day :facepalm:

so far rose showed me nothing and rondo has

Rose > Rondo

The almighty carrot comparison has spoken.

kingbrentg
03-21-2010, 03:39 AM
Rose > Rondo

The almighty carrot comparison has spoken.

You don't argue with the ****ing carrot.

jmtapia
03-21-2010, 03:40 AM
Rondo has been very good but not sure if hes Elite. Hes 24 so has time to come up but there are more talented PG out there. This certainly could be debated but overall i think he is still a little away.

DodgerBulls
03-21-2010, 03:43 AM
i take that back you get the epic fail of the day :facepalm:

so far rose showed me nothing and rondo has! Rondo is showing why he dont need the big 3s help! and if Rose is so great how come the bulls are not a playoff team? answer me that hmmmm?

You clearly don't watch the Bulls. For the past week or 2, except last night, Bulls has been playing with their bench.

1-800-STFU
03-21-2010, 03:44 AM
You clearly don't watch the Bulls. For the past week or 2, except last night, Bulls has been playing with their bench.

How dare you use facts and logic. Blasphemy!!

1-800-STFU
03-21-2010, 03:45 AM
You don't argue with the ****ing carrot.

This is one smart dude.

Boston Faithful
03-21-2010, 03:46 AM
This isn't A bash thread because I personally like Rondo as A player but I just wanted your thoughts on why is Rondo considered an elite point guard in the NBA and his numbers aren't very eye popping at 13ppg and 9 apg

I didn't know 14 ppg and 10 apg (which are elite numbers) mean 13 ppg and 9 apg.

The SportsKing
03-21-2010, 03:47 AM
Rose > Rondo

The almighty carrot comparison has spoken.

if rose is so great how come he did not turn his bulls in to a playoff contander? this year Rondo shows why hes better tan rose and he does not need help from the big 3! right now rondo's carring this team even tho the c;s are soso this year! as for rose he may be the PG of the future but right bow hes not showing it! i respect Rose but you saying hes better than rondo this season then are crazy or just a homer! just sayin

1-800-STFU
03-21-2010, 03:49 AM
if rose is so great how come he did not turn his bull in to a playoff contander? this yar Rondo shows why hes better tan rose and he does not need help from the big 3! right now rondo's carring this team even tho the c;s are soso this year! as for rose he may be the PG of the future but right bow hes not showing it! i respect Rose but you saying hes better than rondo this season then are crazy or just a homer! just sayin

Did you not see which the way carrot was aligned?

It clearly says Rose > Rondo, and you my friend like i've said do not argue the carrot.

The carrot comparison is a scientific formula made from hours of research I've carefully put together. It is not wrong.

The SportsKing
03-21-2010, 03:51 AM
You don't argue with the ****ing carrot.
oh th carrot im scared:rolleyes:

You clearly don't watch the Bulls. For the past week or 2, except last night, Bulls has been playing with their bench.
still not enough

How dare you use facts and logic. Blasphemy!!


This is one smart dude.

i dont care what the carrot says! im just saying Rondo as of right now hes better than rose

The SportsKing
03-21-2010, 03:52 AM
Did you not see which the way carrot was aligned?

It clearly says Rose > Rondo, and you my friend like i've said do not argue the carrot.

The carrot comparison is a scientific formula made from hours of research I've carefully put together. It is not wrong.

like i said to jna17 crack is a powerfull drug

1-800-STFU
03-21-2010, 03:54 AM
like i said to jna17 crack is a powerfull drug

Not as powerful as the carrot comparison I have carefully crafted. Which clearly states Rose is a far better player than Rondo.

1-800-STFU
03-21-2010, 03:55 AM
oh th carrot im scared:rolleyes:

still not enough

i dont care what the carrot says! im just saying Rondo as of right now hes better than rose

The carrot comparison disagrees, and you better be scared.

See that carrot? It'll be the last thing you gaze upon in your life if you cross it.

ldc62
03-21-2010, 03:56 AM
I don't consider him elite. IMO Aaron Brooks could replace Boston and the C's might be even better. Rondo plays really good D, but he loves to get steals almost to a fault (overplays).

The SportsKing
03-21-2010, 03:56 AM
The carrot comparison disagrees, and you better be scared.

See that carrot? It'll be the last thing you gaze upon in your life if you cross it.

who is this carrot you speak off

DodgerBulls
03-21-2010, 03:59 AM
oh th carrot im scared:rolleyes:

still not enough

How is that not enough? Put these players as your starters for the past 2 weeks at the 6th seed...

Scalabrine
Davis
Williams
Allen
Nate

Do you really think you can win everytime and not drop from the playoff contention?

1-800-STFU
03-21-2010, 04:00 AM
who is this carrot you speak off

Christ you're as slow as an amputee with downs syndrome.

The carrot ">" is a comparison built on hours of backbreaking labor that was specifically made for resolving the issue of Rose being better than Rondo on a sports forum. It is my job to enlighten heretics like yourself to the truth, the light, and the way.

DodgerBulls
03-21-2010, 04:02 AM
Oh also make Vinny as your Head Coach and give Daniels most of the mins instead of Allen.

TheKing23
03-21-2010, 04:31 AM
The carrot comparison > Any argument with logic/fact

Fireworld
03-21-2010, 04:34 AM
He's a great player. Needs to work on that outside shot though before he can be considered elite

1-800-STFU
03-21-2010, 04:36 AM
The carrot comparison > Any argument with logic/fact

Finally, someone who gets "it"

Doogolas
03-21-2010, 04:49 AM
oh th carrot im scared:rolleyes:

still not enough




i dont care what the carrot says! im just saying Rondo as of right now hes better than rose

How about this one for you: When Rose hasn't been hurt the Bulls are 32-31. Without him the Bulls are 0-6.

J-Relo
03-21-2010, 05:15 AM
Not ELITE, but a great point guard.

Lizard King
03-21-2010, 05:22 AM
Top 5? Yes
Elite? **** no!

Elite = Stockton and Magic

Even CP3 isn't elite yet.

Doogolas
03-21-2010, 05:24 AM
Top 5? Yes
Elite? **** no!

Elite = Stockton and Magic

Even CP3 isn't elite yet.

:laugh2: Come on, that's ridiculous. Paul is definitely on the same level as Stockton if not higher. Stockton was amazing but Paul is most definitely a future Hall of Famer at the rate he's going.

beardown78
03-21-2010, 05:41 AM
I didn't know 14 ppg and 10 apg (which are elite numbers) mean 13 ppg and 9 apg.

My bad 13.9 ppg and 9.7apg. I'm sorry I failed to round up to give him A double double. But try espn.com or nba.com for up to the minute stats before posting false stats

J-Relo
03-21-2010, 06:53 AM
:laugh2: Come on, that's ridiculous. Paul is definitely on the same level as Stockton if not higher. Stockton was amazing but Paul is most definitely a future Hall of Famer at the rate he's going.

you are kidding right?

Stockton >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Paul

$ NyC $
03-21-2010, 07:22 AM
I don't like to get into the Rondo/Rose debates, but i need to say, if you put Rondo on the Bulls do you honestly think the Bulls would be in the playoffs?

Its an insult to say that Rondo has been leading his team and keeping them in the playoffs lol.

The dude can barely hit a jumper (he has improved) but when a team can leave you open and know that your most likely gonna miss, there's no way your considered Elite.

$ NyC $
03-21-2010, 07:22 AM
Oh yea,

and the Carrot has spoken.

magichatnumber9
03-21-2010, 07:25 AM
you are kidding right?

Stockton >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Paul You left out quite a few greater then signs. I like CP3 but he is no Stockton

magichatnumber9
03-21-2010, 07:26 AM
Back to Rondo being Elite. shut up with and stop throwing words around blah blah blah. He is an all star point guard. Derrick Rose is an all star combo guard.

Bullsfan22
03-21-2010, 07:36 AM
lmao this thread is pretty funny.

SHONIE
03-21-2010, 07:55 AM
My bad 13.9 ppg and 9.7apg. I'm sorry I failed to round up to give him A double double. But try espn.com or nba.com for up to the minute stats before posting false stats


I didn't realize that 20, 5, and 3 on a team that will lose in the first round is better than 13, 9, 4, and 2 on a championship contender with three other all stars fighting for touches. And those are rose's numbers based off of your system of rounding down. Rondo averages almost twice as many assists as rose on a much older, less athletic team.

But if you look at his actual stats of 13.9, 9.7, 4.4, 2.4 on .515% shooting instead of rounding them down to make him look like a worse player, yes I will still take him over Rose who he outplayed in last years playoffs in a direct matchup. Not to mention he won a championship at the helm of the Boston team. Lets see where his numbers go next year with Ray off of the team and him getting more touches. They'll definitely go down, right? Because Ray is one of the 3 players who makes him get such amazing numbers as is? Oh wait...

Rondo gets most of his assists to Ray on spot up 3s or 3s coming off of screens. If you replace Ray in the starting lineup with Nate, who is shooting .460 from 3 with the celtics as compared to Ray's .363 this year, you would see even more assists.

Not to mention KG has looked horrible at times this year, but clearly Rondo's assists are coming from all of those go to 15 footers that KG is making?

Or maybe his numbers look so good because of all of the isolation moves the PP uses that don't result in an assist? i.e. his back to the basket turn around elbow jumper? Yeah, after 6-7 dribbles Rondo isn't credited with the assist pal.

In a sense you can argue that Rondo's numbers would improve with "lesser" players on his team.

Now, I am not denying Rose's talent because I think that he will be the better of the two players in the long run, but it disgusts me to read stupid posts on this website crediting Rose who has accomplished nothing and discrediting Rondo and attributing his success to the Big 3, all of whom he is arguably superior to at this point in his career. Rondo, thus far, is the better player. We'll see if that continues, and my honest opinion as a Celtics fan is that it won't and that Rose will eventually become more valuable to a club, but at this point Rondo does everything that a point guard needs to do in this league and then some, and he does all of those things (passing, driving, defense, controlling his team) at an elite level.

bodupp311
03-21-2010, 08:44 AM
i take that back you get the epic fail of the day :facepalm:

so far rose showed me nothing and rondo has! Rondo is showing why he dont need the big 3s help! and if Rose is so great how come the bulls are not a playoff team? answer me that hmmmm?

injuries numbnuts

NYMetros
03-21-2010, 08:51 AM
Rondo ranks 6th for me. So I guess it kind of depends on what your definition of elite is.

1. CP3
2. Nash
3. Deron Williams
4. Tony Parker
5. Rose
6. Rondo

magichatnumber9
03-21-2010, 09:00 AM
1. Deron Williams
2. CP3
3. Nash
4. Rondo 4th in assists 4th on my list. Combo guards need not apply
5. J. Kidd
6. Tony Parker

bigsams50
03-21-2010, 09:21 AM
My bad 13.9 ppg and 9.7apg. I'm sorry I failed to round up to give him A double double. But try espn.com or nba.com for up to the minute stats before posting false stats

13.9 is basically 14 points a game. And 9.7 is alot closer to 10 than 9, so him rounding is not a problem

Daze9900
03-21-2010, 09:29 AM
JKidd at 50 years old > Rondo.

BeantownBill
03-21-2010, 09:30 AM
:laugh2: Come on, that's ridiculous. Paul is definitely on the same level as Stockton if not higher. Stockton was amazing but Paul is most definitely a future Hall of Famer at the rate he's going.

I knew there were a lot of kids posting horribly skewed information on the boards here, but this is above and beyond a lot of what I've read lately. This hurts my head to read .. :facepalm: .. and I HATE the facepalm.

Ray_R
03-21-2010, 09:34 AM
JKidd at 50 years old > Rondo.

The Carrot speaks again

Reversed86Curse
03-21-2010, 09:44 AM
:laugh2: Come on, that's ridiculous. Paul is definitely on the same level as Stockton if not higher. Stockton was amazing but Paul is most definitely a future Hall of Famer at the rate he's going.

So Paul is better than the All-Time Assist and Steals leader? And Pauls 4 years in the NBA outshine Stocktons 19 years? Paul may be 'amazing' but he sure as hell isn't on the same level as Stockton.

Reversed86Curse
03-21-2010, 09:48 AM
I don't like to get into the Rondo/Rose debates, but i need to say, if you put Rondo on the Bulls do you honestly think the Bulls would be in the playoffs?

Its an insult to say that Rondo has been leading his team and keeping them in the playoffs lol.

The dude can barely hit a jumper (he has improved) but when a team can leave you open and know that your most likely gonna miss, there's no way your considered Elite.

Don't be insulted, you clearly don't watch every Celtics game like those of us who say he's leading the C's.

Reversed86Curse
03-21-2010, 09:51 AM
And Rondo is a better PG than Rose.

Rose is a better Combo Guard than Rondo

n83417
03-21-2010, 09:51 AM
How is that not enough? Put these players as your starters for the past 2 weeks at the 6th seed...

Scalabrine
Davis
Williams
Allen
Nate

Do you really think you can win everytime and not drop from the playoff contention?

instead, how about.

Wallace
Davis
Daniels
Finley
Nate Robinson

chomaru
03-21-2010, 09:58 AM
Its not baiting either I was just curious to know if he's considered top tier such as Paul,Deron,NashBillups or second tier such as Wesbrook,Parker,Aaron Brooks,Rose,Nelson or Mo Williams

you cant rank Mo ahead of Rondo... Rondo is like JKidd who I notice is missing from your list

n83417
03-21-2010, 10:01 AM
BTW rose is SSOOOOO overrated.

Rondo is much better than Rose.

Not that they should be compared, considering they are two completely different players. Rondo is a true point guard, who makes ridiculous plays for his team EVERY night. He makes everyone better, and is the leader, as well as best player on the celtics.

Rose is an undersized 2 guard, who is a decent passer. And oh yeah, way overrated.

When Rondo is out of the lineup the Celtics have a terrible drop off in team play. So to say he is not the best player, or that he is the benificiary of the "big 3" is just so inaccurate.

Corey
03-21-2010, 10:07 AM
Rondo has been the best player on the Celtics this season. Averaging below 6 shots per game when we have our regular starters healthy (13 when we have someone injured), while shooting 51.5% from the floor. The scoring argument really shouldn't hold any water in this argument considering he's the fourth option on a team with 3 VERY talented offensive players. He's here to distribute.

Look at it like this: Everyone in the league knows he doesn't want to shoot...and he STILL gets to the paint at will. What does that say?

Is he elite? At his position he is. In terms of players around the league? No way.

I'll take his 14 points 10 assists, 4 rebounds and 2 steals every day of the week and twice on Sunday. Id much rather have my point guard distribute and pace the offense rather than score a ton.

hugepatsfan
03-21-2010, 10:08 AM
I think you have to watch Rondo on a consistant basis to see how good he really is. He does a lot of things that you can't judge w/ stats (saving the ball, fighting for a rebound that gets knocked into another Celtic's hands, good passes that set other people up for assists when they make a 2nd pass, etc.) He has a great basketabll IQ and I think that is his biggest strength.

prodigy
03-21-2010, 10:13 AM
Elite is Lebron, Wade, Kobe, Carmelo, Dirk, etc....

Rondo is not there.

avrpatsfan
03-21-2010, 10:30 AM
Let's compare Rose's stats and Rondo's stats.

Rajon Rondo 13.9 PPG 9.7 APG 2.4 SPG 4.3 RPG

Derrick Rose 20.4 PPG 5.7 APG 0.8 SPG 3.6 RPG

Ok let's take into account that Rose shoots an average 17.6 shots per game. Rondo shoots 11.1. Rondo shoots 49 percent from the field, so if he shot as much as Rose did and he kept his average you add 6 points from 6 more field goal tries so he is now at 19.9 PPG. If he takes 6 more shots to be fair you can take away 3 assists so here are the stats if Rondo wanted to score more:
Rajon Rondo 19.9 PPG 6.7 APG 2.4 SPG 4.3 RPG
k Rose 20.4 PPG 5.7 APG 0.8 SPG 3.6 RPG

Hmm, I wonder. I would still rather have Rondo even with his old stats. Rose doesn't have the rebounds, assists, and steals Rondo has.

avrpatsfan
03-21-2010, 10:30 AM
Rondo has been the best player on the Celtics this season. Averaging below 6 shots per game when we have our regular starters healthy (13 when we have someone injured), while shooting 51.5% from the floor. The scoring argument really shouldn't hold any water in this argument considering he's the fourth option on a team with 3 VERY talented offensive players. He's here to distribute.

Look at it like this: Everyone in the league knows he doesn't want to shoot...and he STILL gets to the paint at will. What does that say?

Is he elite? At his position he is. In terms of players around the league? No way.

I'll take his 14 points 10 assists, 4 rebounds and 2 steals every day of the week and twice on Sunday. Id much rather have my point guard distribute and pace the offense rather than score a ton.

This.

ddudeman0101
03-21-2010, 10:42 AM
I just did the carrot calculation and i got Rondo>Rose and supposedly this is absolute fact if written down

BuddhaMONK
03-21-2010, 10:43 AM
No rondo is not an elite point guard. He only looks that way because of the ppl he's playing with. When Boston faces an opponent do you really thier opponents are concerned about rondo. No they are concerned about kg, allen, and peirce. The floor is wide open for Rondo that's why he's putting up these numbers, if he was on a team like nets we wouldn't even know who he was.

Tribe
03-21-2010, 10:47 AM
he!! NO...he cant shoot worth a ****

xbrackattackx
03-21-2010, 10:51 AM
1. Deron Williams
2. CP3
3. Nash
4. Rondo 4th in assists 4th on my list. Combo guards need not apply
5. J. Kidd
6. Tony Parker


x 2. My list exactly. Except I had Rose at 6 and Parker at 8.

avrpatsfan
03-21-2010, 10:53 AM
x 2. My list exactly. Except I had Rose at 6 and Parker at 8.

Agree with you. Very good list. Rose at 6 for sure. Parker should be at 8 as well.

Edit: CP3 is the best

op12
03-21-2010, 10:57 AM
Rondo ranks 6th for me. So I guess it kind of depends on what your definition of elite is.

1. CP3
2. Nash
3. Deron Williams
4. Tony Parker
5. Rose
6. Rondo

no billups makes this list lose credibility to me.

rondo easily is better than rose all around this year.

and whoever thinks cp3 is better than stockton clearly know nothing about basketball.

Raps18-19 Champ
03-21-2010, 11:16 AM
I like Rondo.

Here is how I rank the PGs:

1.Paul
2.Williams
3.Nash
4.Billups
5.Parker
6.Rondo
7.Rose
8.Westbrook
9.Evans(Jennings if you don't consider Evans a PG)
10. Williams

magichatnumber9
03-21-2010, 11:17 AM
Elite is Lebron, Wade, Kobe, Carmelo, Dirk, etc....

Rondo is not there. Those guys are past elite. There superstars. You see how words are useless and manipulative. I can do it too.

dbobola22
03-21-2010, 11:18 AM
Not sure what you consider elite. That term has different meanings when talking players. If your talking about elite players in the NBA then definitely no. Lebron, Wade, Kobe, etc those are the elite.

If you go based on position by position, I guess you have to determine the cutoff. Would top 5 players from each position be considered the 'elite' level? There are 30 teams in the league, lets assume there is only 2 PGs per roster so that is 60 PGs (there is more but for #s base only), then being a top 5 PG is better than 92% of the other players.

I would consider that level to be elite, now you have to determine if Rondo is a top 5 POINT GUARD which is determined by distribution, getting players open looks, ability to score when called upon (whether its shooting or driving to the lane), ability to get the ball up the floor, intangibles (steals, rebounds etc).

All the factors make Rondo a lock for top 5. If I am building a team there is no PG I take before Rondo besides Nash, Paul and Williams. This definitely leaves him in the elite category.

Using the excuse that he can not shoot and if he is on a different team he wouldn't be as good is completely irrelevant. To become a professional athlete you have to be extremely talented, look at the ratio of players who play NCAA hoops to NBA players. Even 12th men are very talented, a huge aspect of a player becoming a very good player or being that 12th man is being in the right system.

Rondo may not have the best shot but for system he plays in, if he had a 3-point shot then I'd argue it would limit his effectiveness as crazy as that sounds. When you have 2 wing players like Pierce/Allen and a low post guy like KG, you do not want your point guard standing at the 3-point line trying to throw up shots (the Celts got Rasheed Wallace for that, ugh!). He is so good because he can drive the lane and kick it to the wing, if they give him space he continues to take it to rim and if he has the clear shot he goes with it, if not he dumps off to KG, Perfect strategy.

Nash is special because he can let the ball fly with the best of them so even when they stopped their D'Antoni offense of 7-seconds or less he could get Amare and Shaq (last season) the ball down on the post when the doubled team down low, the bigs would kick it out and Nash would drain a 3. Perfect fit for that system.

I think Paul and Williams are better than Rondo all around but I do not think the Celtics would be as good with one of them over Rondo because Rondo does not care about his #s and that is not a knock on the other two but having a ball to spread around 4 players would not work with any players.

drouss48
03-21-2010, 11:21 AM
Rondo= 13.9 PPG, and 9.7 APG maybe they have changed the rules of rounding since I was in school. But in my book that's 14 and 10, not 13 and 9.

mikey03
03-21-2010, 11:34 AM
I LOVE how the big 3 are only elite and allstars when it comes to talking about rondo and how they're the only reason hes good....but when people talk about how the celtics are done, its always that the big 3 are old and done. hahaha its almost comical

magichatnumber9
03-21-2010, 11:55 AM
I LOVE how the big 3 are only elite and allstars when it comes to talking about rondo and how they're the only reason hes good....but when people talk about how the celtics are done, its always that the big 3 are old and done. hahaha its almost comicalIt's very comical. and hypocritical at best. And nobody in the Celtics forum is posting Rajon Rondo recognition posts, like they do for other players in other forums.I wouldn't be talking about D. Rose would I? Instead I have to find these things in the NBA forum composed by other fans who also add a cynical twist to the thread. We will defend our players but we have to much class to prostitute them on PSD.

avrpatsfan
03-21-2010, 11:56 AM
Not sure what you consider elite. That term has different meanings when talking players. If your talking about elite players in the NBA then definitely no. Lebron, Wade, Kobe, etc those are the elite.

If you go based on position by position, I guess you have to determine the cutoff. Would top 5 players from each position be considered the 'elite' level? There are 30 teams in the league, lets assume there is only 2 PGs per roster so that is 60 PGs (there is more but for #s base only), then being a top 5 PG is better than 92% of the other players.

I would consider that level to be elite, now you have to determine if Rondo is a top 5 POINT GUARD which is determined by distribution, getting players open looks, ability to score when called upon (whether its shooting or driving to the lane), ability to get the ball up the floor, intangibles (steals, rebounds etc).

All the factors make Rondo a lock for top 5. If I am building a team there is no PG I take before Rondo besides Nash, Paul and Williams. This definitely leaves him in the elite category.

Using the excuse that he can not shoot and if he is on a different team he wouldn't be as good is completely irrelevant. To become a professional athlete you have to be extremely talented, look at the ratio of players who play NCAA hoops to NBA players. Even 12th men are very talented, a huge aspect of a player becoming a very good player or being that 12th man is being in the right system.

Rondo may not have the best shot but for system he plays in, if he had a 3-point shot then I'd argue it would limit his effectiveness as crazy as that sounds. When you have 2 wing players like Pierce/Allen and a low post guy like KG, you do not want your point guard standing at the 3-point line trying to throw up shots (the Celts got Rasheed Wallace for that, ugh!). He is so good because he can drive the lane and kick it to the wing, if they give him space he continues to take it to rim and if he has the clear shot he goes with it, if not he dumps off to KG, Perfect strategy.

Nash is special because he can let the ball fly with the best of them so even when they stopped their D'Antoni offense of 7-seconds or less he could get Amare and Shaq (last season) the ball down on the post when the doubled team down low, the bigs would kick it out and Nash would drain a 3. Perfect fit for that system.

I think Paul and Williams are better than Rondo all around but I do not think the Celtics would be as good with one of them over Rondo because Rondo does not care about his #s and that is not a knock on the other two but having a ball to spread around 4 players would not work with any players.

Great post! Welcome to the forum!

Bivory
03-21-2010, 11:59 AM
Anyone that doesn't see the value in a PG who avg'ed a triple double in the playoffs, gets 10 assists a game with 2+ steals a game and 4+rbs.....is nuts...period....

That's what an elite PG does.....Some of you may like scroring pg's more but this guy gets his whole team involved, plays great D, and was the leader of a championship team....Don't get it twisted...he's elite

bosoxlover12
03-21-2010, 12:08 PM
You Bulls fans should remember about the 1st round against the Celtics last year: It was the Rondo vs. Rose fight; both scoring crazily, getting assists and all. But do you remember who won? Boston, because of Rondo. They won last night, because of Rondo.

And i'm pretty sure that 14 ppg is VERY good for a #4 option, as rose gets 6 ppg more, but is their top scorer

and just wondering, who has the ring, has a playoff series victory, a non-ALL ROOKIE NBA award??? Rajon Rondo.

flea
03-21-2010, 12:11 PM
He's a very good point guard, and a better one than Derrick Rose, but you probably need to be able to shoot a little bit before you can be called elite. His FT% is embarrassing.

JNA17
03-21-2010, 12:15 PM
like i said to jna17 crack is a powerfull drug

lies and slander!

Boston Fanatic
03-21-2010, 12:18 PM
i think rondo is one of the top point guards in the league you have to realize that nash and paul and williams are first option guys so when they average more than twenty its because they have to...rondo needs to be the one who moves the ball, yes i wish he would just drive to basket more and sometimes he does take control like that...but what you cannot underlook is his defensive capabilities thats what makes him "elite" i guess and nash williams and paul werent instrumental in a championship like rondo

$ NyC $
03-21-2010, 12:21 PM
Don't be insulted, you clearly don't watch every Celtics game like those of us who say he's leading the C's.

I'm not gonna lie, i don't watch every Celtic game but I've watched a few, the ones Vs. the Knicks, and the Celtics big games (Vs. Magic, Cavs, Lakers ). I don't think he's the one leading them, YES i do agree that he plays a significant role but him, Allen, Pierce, and the Fading KG all play equal important roles for that team. Allen hits the big shots too.

Shaddix
03-21-2010, 12:25 PM
rondo is the best player on the celtics, and he has been the last two years.

jim51990
03-21-2010, 12:36 PM
rondo> any pg in the east

king4day
03-21-2010, 12:39 PM
I still think he's a slight notch below Paul and Deron.
He's close, but l don't think he's elite yet.

Paul, Deron, Nash, and Billups are at the top. Then Rondo, Rose, Parker.

Ray_R
03-21-2010, 12:45 PM
I just did the carrot calculation and i got Rondo>Rose and supposedly this is absolute fact if written down

Sorry to burst your bubble but the theory states that once it has been writtin in cannot be reversed,rewritten or recalculated.
So it still stands as Rose >Rondo

Reversed86Curse
03-21-2010, 12:58 PM
I'm not gonna lie, i don't watch every Celtic game but I've watched a few, the ones Vs. the Knicks, and the Celtics big games (Vs. Magic, Cavs, Lakers ). I don't think he's the one leading them, YES i do agree that he plays a significant role but him, Allen, Pierce, and the Fading KG all play equal important roles for that team. Allen hits the big shots too.

And Rondo sets up EVERYTHING- He's the leader, and the one consistant member of the C's this year. He's the one who's been on the floor for every game (minus one or two I think).

Corey
03-21-2010, 01:24 PM
And Rondo sets up EVERYTHING- He's the leader, and the one consistant member of the C's this year. He's the one who's been on the floor for every game (minus one or two I think).

Well it depends on what type of 'leader' you are referring to.

Ask Garnett, Allen, Perk, Rondo etc. and they will all tell you Pierce is the leader. Ask any of the fans and they will tell you Garnett is the leader.

I wouldn't call Rondo the leader, but there's no doubt he plays an intricate part for the Celtics. He sets everything up on offense, and distributes enough that everyone is happy with their touches (for the most part).

When Rondo plays bad, the Celtics lose. It's as simple as that.

RaptorizedKevin
03-21-2010, 01:29 PM
rondo is not elite. elite is steve nash chris paul and deron williams. those are elite. Rondo is the best defensive pg though, and then Jason kidd. Ohh and jasonkidd used to be elite. not anymore only cuss hes old and its affected his game

RaptorizedKevin
03-21-2010, 01:30 PM
Rose isnt better than Rondo. Rondo is the 4th scoring option onthat team. Rose is the first scoring option on the bulls. when rondo was the main option on the team, yu should compare his stats to rose. Rose , offensivly, is way better. but in terms of playmaking, rebounding, defense, rondo outshines him. and when rondo is the main option for scoring on the celtics, his stats arent far off roses. so i would say rose isnt as good as rondo. but rose is definatly better offensively. but when grading someone overall, yu look for more then just offense.

mikantsass
03-21-2010, 01:52 PM
Rondo>Rose
Evans>Rose
Westbrook>Rose

No but seriously, I dont consider Rondo Elite. The Elite players in the NBA are Lebron, Kobe, Carmelo, Dirk, Dwight etc..

But Rondo is definitely a borderline top 5pg. I think the general concensus for top 4 would be

Williams
Paul
Billups
Nash

Rondo & Kidd are fighting it out for #5

prodigy
03-21-2010, 01:58 PM
Those guys are past elite. There superstars. You see how words are useless and manipulative. I can do it too.


ummmm what? lol. Rondo is clearly not on those guys level, if you think he is then your a homer.

avrpatsfan
03-21-2010, 03:48 PM
He's a very good point guard, and a better one than Derrick Rose, but you probably need to be able to shoot a little bit before you can be called elite. His FT% is embarrassing.

Just because he shoots a bad FT percentage doesn't make you non-elite.

avrpatsfan
03-21-2010, 03:49 PM
Rondo>Rose
Evans>Rose
Westbrook>Rose

No but seriously, I dont consider Rondo Elite. The Elite players in the NBA are Lebron, Kobe, Carmelo, Dirk, Dwight etc..

But Rondo is definitely a borderline top 5pg. I think the general concensus for top 4 would be

Williams
Paul
Billups
Nash

Rondo & Kidd are fighting it out for #5

This.

Reversed86Curse
03-21-2010, 03:54 PM
Well it depends on what type of 'leader' you are referring to.

Ask Garnett, Allen, Perk, Rondo etc. and they will all tell you Pierce is the leader. Ask any of the fans and they will tell you Garnett is the leader.

I wouldn't call Rondo the leader, but there's no doubt he plays an intricate part for the Celtics. He sets everything up on offense, and distributes enough that everyone is happy with their touches (for the most part).

When Rondo plays bad, the Celtics lose. It's as simple as that.

Rondo is the floor general, start to finish; the rest of the team looks for him to set the pace.

celtisox41
03-21-2010, 04:38 PM
Nash is not a top 3 pg anymore, rondo passed him, he's still a top 5-10 one though. I think rondo is about equal to deron now, and Paul is as good as he is going to get, and rondo is still getting better. I think in a year or two it won't even be a question that rondo and paul are the two best

td0tsfinest
03-21-2010, 04:43 PM
They are only a few point guards in the entire league I would say that are elite. Rondo has come a long way but I'm not ready to give him the elite status yet.

td0tsfinest
03-21-2010, 04:46 PM
Nash is not a top 3 pg anymore, rondo passed him, he's still a top 5-10 one though. I think rondo is about equal to deron now, and Paul is as good as he is going to get, and rondo is still getting better. I think in a year or two it won't even be a question that rondo and paul are the two best

no way man. I'd take Deron Williams any day of the week without hesitating. I don't even think its close.

celtisox41
03-21-2010, 04:51 PM
no way man. I'd take Deron Williams any day of the week without hesitating. I don't even think its close.

Williams scores 18 a game and he's the 1st or 2nd option, rondo scores 14 and he's the 4th, also williams has 10 assists a game and rondo has 9, they both have four rebounds a game. So they are about equal. And Rondo is a MUCH better defender

bradyoverrated
03-21-2010, 04:54 PM
This isn't A bash thread because I personally like Rondo as A player but I just wanted your thoughts on why is Rondo considered an elite point guard in the NBA and his numbers aren't very eye popping at 13ppg and 9 apg



he may be the best defensive PG in the league. he also is an excellent rebounding PG (perhaps the best, currently), and gets plenty of steals.

IRUAM #21
03-21-2010, 05:04 PM
Williams scores 18 a game and he's the 1st or 2nd option, rondo scores 14 and he's the 4th, also williams has 10 assists a game and rondo has 9, they both have four rebounds a game. So they are about equal. And Rondo is a MUCH better defender

:laugh2:

td0tsfinest
03-21-2010, 05:06 PM
Williams scores 18 a game and he's the 1st or 2nd option, rondo scores 14 and he's the 4th, also williams has 10 assists a game and rondo has 9, they both have four rebounds a game. So they are about equal. And Rondo is a MUCH better defender

You want to talk about stats. Ok, let's look at fantasy production with chris paul out Deron Williams is the best PG in the league with Rondo almost 10 slots back. or how about Hollinger's PER again Williams is way higher than rondo or nba.com's player efficiency again Williams is higher.

But **** stats, from just watching the two guys play, Deron is a much better player. We've already seen what D-Will can do carrying a team, I'm not sold on Rondo. I'm sure he'll put up good numbers if he was the #1 or 2 option but I really don't think that team would be doing that well.

dbobola22
03-21-2010, 05:33 PM
Could we consider Rondo elite now that this battle turned from Rondo/Rose, to Rondo and elite and now comparing Rondo with Deron Williams and Chris Paul?

Let me ask this, if Williams and Paul are #1-2 respectively in no particular order, only of your preference then who is 3-4-5?

If you have Rondo as a top 5 then he is an ELITE point guard. Is he an Elite NBA Player No, that would go to the players we call superstars.

Labeling players are such a tough thing to do unless you narrow it down to a sample size. Is a player an elite one at his position? Does that make him one of the games elite? Is he elite compared to players from the past? What is the basis of the term elite?

If we are talking CURRENT NBA players only, not drawing comparisons to past players, which would open up a huge debate on every position then the question is either:

1) Is Rondo considered elite?
2) Is Rondo an elite point guard?

Maybe this debate is not specific enough because the answers in my opinion is 1-No, 2-Yes!

BuddhaMONK
03-21-2010, 05:42 PM
Nash is not a top 3 pg anymore, rondo passed him, he's still a top 5-10 one though. I think rondo is about equal to deron now, and Paul is as good as he is going to get, and rondo is still getting better. I think in a year or two it won't even be a question that rondo and paul are the two best

your an idiot, rondo > nash (maybe on d that's it though). Are you honestly telling me that the celtics would be a worse team if they had nash instead of rondo...... that's just stupid u need to stop talking. Ur a biased celtic fan, celtics fans don't belong in this forum let unbiased ppl speak.. no rondo co(k riders.

Cubs Win
03-21-2010, 05:42 PM
Williams scores 18 a game and he's the 1st or 2nd option, rondo scores 14 and he's the 4th, also williams has 10 assists a game and rondo has 9, they both have four rebounds a game. So they are about equal. And Rondo is a MUCH better defender

:facepalm:

Korman12
03-21-2010, 05:43 PM
No. If he's elite that would put him on the same level as Paul, Williams and Nash, and he's not there (he may be later).

Defensively he is, however.

Mane
03-21-2010, 05:47 PM
Wow you guys are ****ing idiots..

1800STFU said
Rose > Rondo

The carrot spoke, theres no point in arguing.

The1ronHorse
03-21-2010, 05:50 PM
i take that back you get the epic fail of the day :facepalm:

so far rose showed me nothing and rondo has! Rondo is showing why he dont need the big 3s help! and if Rose is so great how come the bulls are not a playoff team? answer me that hmmmm?


Rose>Rondo

Rondo>Rose gets a :facepalm:

O and do the bulls have 3 superstars other then rose....answer me that hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm?!?!?mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm mmmmm, seriously kid your a joke.

magichatnumber9
03-21-2010, 05:53 PM
You want to talk about stats. Ok, let's look at fantasy production with chris paul out Deron Williams is the best PG in the league with Rondo almost 10 slots back. or how about Hollinger's PER again Williams is way higher than rondo or nba.com's player efficiency again Williams is higher.

But **** stats, from just watching the two guys play, Deron is a much better player. We've already seen what D-Will can do carrying a team, I'm not sold on Rondo. I'm sure he'll put up good numbers if he was the #1 or 2 option but I really don't think that team would be doing that well.
you lost me at fantasy.

avrpatsfan
03-21-2010, 05:54 PM
Rose>Rondo

Rondo>Rose gets a :facepalm:

O and do the bulls have 3 superstars other then rose....answer me that hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm?!?!?mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm mmmmm, seriously kid your a joke.

How is he better? Rondo is better in every category except points. :facepalm:

avrpatsfan
03-21-2010, 05:55 PM
Sorry to burst your bubble but the theory states that once it has been writtin in cannot be reversed,rewritten or recalculated.
So it still stands as Rose >Rondo

Love your sig man.

sargon21
03-21-2010, 06:02 PM
i think it's unfair to compare these players b/c their teams ask them to do different things, however i dont think theres anyway you can deny rose is and will always be the better scorer

NetsPaint
03-21-2010, 06:16 PM
Boston would be a lot better than they are if he was elite.

Miltown34
03-21-2010, 06:19 PM
Talent wise Paul you can say from talent prospective compare him to Stockton, but you can't really compare a guy who has done it for 19-20 years. His best years where Stock avg over 17 pts and 14 assist. Paul has almost a decade and half to match John Hall of famer Stockton.

Miltown34
03-21-2010, 06:20 PM
Williams scores 18 a game and he's the 1st or 2nd option, rondo scores 14 and he's the 4th, also williams has 10 assists a game and rondo has 9, they both have four rebounds a game. So they are about equal. And Rondo is a MUCH better defender

wow wow

RaJa TWa
03-21-2010, 06:27 PM
i take that back you get the epic fail of the day :facepalm:

so far rose showed me nothing and rondo has! Rondo is showing why he dont need the big 3s help! and if Rose is so great how come the bulls are not a playoff team? answer me that hmmmm?

really what happened last year in that postseason ben gordan and derrick rose almost beat the celtics by themselves rondo needs a team to be good ill get john scheyer from duke to play point guard for them and he'll do a wayy better job than rondo

RaJa TWa
03-21-2010, 06:33 PM
Devin Harris>Rose>Mo-Will>Rondo
rondo is overrated

mikantsass
03-21-2010, 06:36 PM
Rose>Rondo

Rondo>Rose gets a :facepalm:

O and do the bulls have 3 superstars other then rose....answer me that hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm?!?!?mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm mmmmm, seriously kid your a joke.

So KG, Pierce, and Ray are superstars when giving the "Rondo's numbers are inflated because he plays with the Big 3", but when talking about the Celtics playoff chances KG, Pierce and Ray are "old and washed up". Can you Celtic haters please make up your mind'???????????

td0tsfinest
03-21-2010, 06:49 PM
you lost me at fantasy.

Fantasy stats is accumulation of overall stats. Since the poster who replied to me was using stats, I used it as well.

ntat
03-21-2010, 06:51 PM
if rose is so great how come he did not turn his bulls in to a playoff contander? this year Rondo shows why hes better tan rose and he does not need help from the big 3! right now rondo's carring this team even tho the c;s are soso this year! as for rose he may be the PG of the future but right bow hes not showing it! i respect Rose but you saying hes better than rondo this season then are crazy or just a homer! just sayin

First of the Bulls arent a good team. Second of all, The Hornets were not lookin like a playoff team befor Paul went out. So by ur logic, Rondo is better cuz his team is going to the playoffs? I dont think so.... In two of the Celtics last three games, Rondo has scored 5 points or less, one game he got 2 points. He is good, but he definitely needs help from the big 3. The Celtic's role players do their job when they have to. Plus we all know winning a stretch of games at one point in the season does not make you elite.

ntat
03-21-2010, 06:57 PM
i take that back you get the epic fail of the day :facepalm:

so far rose showed me nothing and rondo has! Rondo is showing why he dont need the big 3s help! and if Rose is so great how come the bulls are not a playoff team? answer me that hmmmm?

So Rondo is better than Paul? And how has Rose showen u nothing? He is averaging almost 21 and 6 and is shooting almost 50% from the floor. Those are stats I would take anyday.

ntat
03-21-2010, 06:58 PM
Devin Harris>Rose>Mo-Will>Rondo
rondo is overrated

Harris' stats r not showing that this year... He is down 4 points a game and barely shooting 40% from the floor.

DaVille
03-21-2010, 07:04 PM
1st in Steals
4rd in Assists
Leads all Guards in FG%
Ranked 9th Total Double Doubles

Impressive stats for a lousy player playing in the wrong system. Put him in an uptempo system with younger teammates, and watch those numbers Shoot up.

Knowledge
03-21-2010, 07:17 PM
I think Rondo is a very good PG, I just dont consider him elite. If he could shoot FTs and develop a more consistent jumper, then I would definitely consider him elite.

Right now he is a PG whose strength is attacking the rim and making plays, but since he cant shoot FTs it takes away from his ability to really dominate a game. He actually becomes a liability in a lot ways since his overall shot (FTs included) is lacking.

RapOZo
03-21-2010, 07:22 PM
Rondo has been very good but not sure if hes Elite. Hes 24 so has time to come up but there are more talented PG out there. This certainly could be debated but overall i think he is still a little away.

why you say "out there" tho?
why cant it be "in there"?

omg this people!! :mad:

DaVille
03-21-2010, 07:33 PM
OMG! how horrible is Rondo? Dude can't even Shoot. That song is getting old. If you've watched Rondo at all this season, you'll notice the monthly improvements he made on his FT and Mid-J. Shooting is one department player can improve upon Ala Lebron James. As long as he's putting the work in, he'll get better. You can't teach quickness, instincts, and court vision. These stats alone puts him in the elite level.

1st in Steals
4rd in Assists
Leads all Guards in FG%
Ranked 9th Total Double Doubles

Bullsfan22
03-21-2010, 07:48 PM
OMG! how horrible is Rondo? Dude can't even Shoot. That song is getting old. If you've watched Rondo at all this season, you'll notice the monthly improvements he made on his FT and Mid-J. Shooting is one department player can improve upon Ala Lebron James. As long as he's putting the work in, he'll get better. You can't teach quickness, instincts, and court vision. These stats alone puts him in the elite level.

1st in Steals
4rd in Assists
Leads all Guards in FG%
Ranked 9th Total Double Doubles

4rd in assist! you heard the man!

avrpatsfan
03-21-2010, 07:54 PM
4rd in assist! you heard the man!

Yeah you heard him.

IRUAM #21
03-21-2010, 07:55 PM
I heard him too.

Knowledge
03-21-2010, 07:56 PM
OMG! how horrible is Rondo? Dude can't even Shoot. That song is getting old. If you've watched Rondo at all this season, you'll notice the monthly improvements he made on his FT and Mid-J. Shooting is one department player can improve upon Ala Lebron James. As long as he's putting the work in, he'll get better. You can't teach quickness, instincts, and court vision. These stats alone puts him in the elite level.

1st in Steals
4rd in Assists
Leads all Guards in FG%
Ranked 9th Total Double Doubles

How can something that is still true about him get old? Lets chill out and look at the stats a little.

Im gonna assume this is a response to my post. This month he is shooting 75% from the Ft line which is decent. The month before he shot 60% and in January he shot 62%. Is he improving or just having an above average month? Time will tell, but some guys get better and others stay the same. Rondo still has plenty of time to determine what he will be, but until then I am going to judge him in what he is.

1-800-STFU
03-21-2010, 08:25 PM
Williams scores 18 a game and he's the 1st or 2nd option, rondo scores 14 and he's the 4th, also williams has 10 assists a game and rondo has 9, they both have four rebounds a game. So they are about equal. And Rondo is a MUCH better defender

I lol'd

Doogolas
03-21-2010, 09:16 PM
The thing I find funny when people talk about Rondo vs Rose. Is everyone says, "Rondo is the leader, he sets everything up for his team. Rose doesn't."

That could not be more wrong. Seriously, watching the last 4 games without Rose was SO painful. Ask ANYONE who watches the Bulls. They seriously looked like a bunch of retards trying to hump a doorknob out there. Rose was back yesterday for the game and it honestly looked like a different team. Rose really does everything for this team.

Neither of them are elite at this point though. :shrug:

EDIT: I'm not arguing Rose > Rondo or the other way around, I'm just saying that the "Rondo is a leader and sets everything up argument" is complete BS if you're talking about he and Rose. Cause Rose does that and then some for the Bulls.

Evolution23
03-21-2010, 09:31 PM
Rondo> Rose hes a better passer, plays better D, is much better at going to the rim. Only thing rose has over rondo is a mid range jumper. But Rose shoots so many attempts that his ppg isnt that impressive. Bulls fans hype him up like hes Magic Johnson :rolleyes:

KmB728
03-21-2010, 09:36 PM
Rondo has been the best player on the Celtics this season. Averaging below 6 shots per game when we have our regular starters healthy (13 when we have someone injured), while shooting 51.5% from the floor. The scoring argument really shouldn't hold any water in this argument considering he's the fourth option on a team with 3 VERY talented offensive players. He's here to distribute.

Look at it like this: Everyone in the league knows he doesn't want to shoot...and he STILL gets to the paint at will. What does that say?

Is he elite? At his position he is. In terms of players around the league? No way.

I'll take his 14 points 10 assists, 4 rebounds and 2 steals every day of the week and twice on Sunday. Id much rather have my point guard distribute and pace the offense rather than score a ton.

:clap:

MJ-BULLS
03-21-2010, 09:43 PM
you are kidding right?

Stockton >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Paul

Karl Malone says hi.

But seriously Stockton had one of the best PF in the history of the game to pass too. Paul doesn't really have the best of players in his team, and i bet if Paul were to have a player like Malone's caliber he could put up some monster numbers better than Stockton.

D Roses Bulls
03-21-2010, 09:53 PM
Rose>rondo
J Nelson>Rondo
Jennings>Rondo
ect....>Rondo

Doogolas
03-21-2010, 09:54 PM
Rondo> Rose hes a better passer, plays better D, is much better at going to the rim. Only thing rose has over rondo is a mid range jumper. But Rose shoots so many attempts that his ppg isnt that impressive. Bulls fans hype him up like hes Magic Johnson :rolleyes:

False. TROLLS hype him up like he's magic. No other Bulls fan thinks he's ANYTHING like Magic. And Rondo ain't ****in' Magic either. He's not even Magic's shoelaces. Rondo is a good player, so is Rose, neither is elite. Rose is better on offense by a lot and Rondo is better on D by a lot. I'm not so sure Rondo is that much better of a passer. His team's FG% is: 48.4% the Bulls team is: 45% that's a pretty massive difference. I mean, Rose is a good passer, he's not elite, but I'm not sure Rondo is either, I've watched at least 40 games of him and he doesn't make many super flashy passes like a CP3 does. He's just intelligent and gets the ball to the open guy.

But for anyone to say one is CLEARLY better than the other right now is absurd. As they both have some pretty damn huge flaws.

DaVille
03-21-2010, 10:08 PM
ect....>Rondo

ect must be the new robotic PG. Word on the street is, he got killer crossover.

etc...>Rose

RadiantShot
03-21-2010, 10:12 PM
Let's settle this!

Put Rondo and Rose in a cage-match!

Loser gives up their starting spot to the last player on the bench!

Kyben36
03-21-2010, 10:30 PM
Personly, I would not consider Rondo elite, only because of my def of elite players,

to me, and elite player is the best of the best, and Rondo doesnt have the scoring ability ( or at least, doesnt now ) to be considered a player who can lead a team. he is a great distributor, and a great 3rd option on a champ team, but I would not say that he would/will ever win a championship as the best player on his team,

players like that right now are

Melo
Wade
James
Kobe
CP3
D Will

you get my drift.

RadiantShot
03-21-2010, 10:35 PM
^
Dwight
Roy
Durant

DetroitRipCity
03-21-2010, 10:43 PM
We could settle this arguement easy if Rondo would enter the skills challenge until then Rose > Rondo

Cool007
03-22-2010, 12:38 AM
Rose is > Rondo when Rose is healthy.

Rondo's (overall stats) > Rose's (Overall stats includng when he wasn't healthy).


I can make a sigbet with anyone right now and I can guarantee that Rose will be considered better than Rondo next year by majority of the people.

Anyone want to bite???

Vinny642
03-22-2010, 12:44 AM
There are only 2 Elite PGs-
One of them by the name of Chris Paul and the other by Deron Williams.

Evolution23
03-22-2010, 01:16 AM
Rose>rondo
J Nelson>Rondo
Jennings>Rondo
ect....>Rondo

CP3> Rose
Daron > Rose
Rondo> Rose
Billups > Rose
Evans > Rose

D Roses Bulls
03-22-2010, 04:53 AM
ect must be the new robotic PG. Word on the street is, he got killer crossover.

etc...>Rose

that means the list keep going.

my kid nephew > rondo

D Roses Bulls
03-22-2010, 04:54 AM
CP3> Rose
Daron > Rose
Rondo> Rose
Billups > Rose
Evans > Rose

a lot of you kids seriously think evans, a rookie is better then rose? thats why you kids need to get to class earlier

Nighthawk
03-22-2010, 07:47 AM
Besides game 1 of the playoffs last year Rondo schooled Rose in the playoff.

HE averaged a triple double for christ sakes


He was the starting Pg on a championship team.


Is this even a question...Rondo has more hustle, better defense, better rebounder, better passer, quicker, and imo better floor general. Rose wants to score, and its good for him and the Bulls. We dont need Rondo putting up Rose numbers.

69centers
03-22-2010, 08:10 AM
Rondo is top 4 right now along with CP3, Williams, and Nash. Rose, Parker, and Billups can duke it out for the 5th spot.

Spiderman 1nner
03-22-2010, 08:30 AM
Rose is going to be a superstar, but rite now Rondo is better and I don't care how many more points per game Rose averages or whatever you wanna base this argument on for Rose, Rondo plays amazing defense and has almost 2 more steals per game because of it, averages 9.7 apg just shy of averaging a double double, shoots a higher percentage, and all on a winning team. Not to mention he won a championship, since thats what a lot of people in this forum seem to base the caliber of a player on... Therefore, Rondo > Rose and Rondo is in my opinion, amongst the elite in tha game rite now.

magichatnumber9
03-22-2010, 08:39 AM
This thread has gotten stupid. For awhile now.

RadiantShot
03-22-2010, 09:24 AM
Magic Johnson = GOAT

Rose and Rondo = Snail

DitchDat
03-22-2010, 09:26 AM
They're both lightning quick and can't shoot. Rose is stronger, Rondo is better defensively. Rose is a scoring point guard, Rondo is a pure distributor.

They're different.

69centers
03-22-2010, 12:38 PM
I know the Celtics don't have a very good record in the games Rondo has sat out. He's more important than most people give him credit for. He's a young guy who had to adapt to a veteran team and defensive style of play. Not sure some of the other PG's could handle that. He also fought his way up to the top, only starting 25 games at PG his rookie year. Rose was given his starting spot from day 1.

sep11ie
03-22-2010, 12:41 PM
You're right its not a bash thread, it's a bait thread.

On that note, Rose > Rondo.

l, nice. I didnt expect that on the first post!

sep11ie
03-22-2010, 12:42 PM
a lot of you kids seriously think evans, a rookie is better then rose? thats why you kids need to get to class earlier

You act like Rose is a seasoned vet.

sep11ie
03-22-2010, 12:44 PM
CP3> Rose
Daron > Rose
Rondo> Rose
Billups > Rose
Evans > Rose


Mike James is still the best PG in the world.

69centers
03-22-2010, 12:44 PM
Rondo has scored 20+ several times in the past few months, with Pierce and KG bothered by injury. When they're back to normal, he's not a top scoring option on the team.

If Rondo was on the Bulls or Jazz, there would be no doubt in my mind he could average 18-20PPG like Deron and Rose.

MagicDojo
03-22-2010, 01:12 PM
I would rather have Nash or Kidd.

Corey
03-22-2010, 01:16 PM
a lot of you kids seriously think evans, a rookie is better then rose? thats why you kids need to get to class earlier

I actually do. He's averaging 20/5/5 (with the assist numbers rising) as a rookie, while leading his team. That's pretty solid if you ask me. That's much better than Rose's rookie year (where he had a better supporting cast) and is even a bit better than Rose's numbers this season even with a year of growing up.

I'd take Evans.

magichatnumber9
03-22-2010, 01:24 PM
I actually do. He's averaging 20/5/5 (with the assist numbers rising) as a rookie, while leading his team. That's pretty solid if you ask me. That's much better than Rose's rookie year (where he had a better supporting cast) and is even a bit better than Rose's numbers this season even with a year of growing up.

I'd take Evans.seriously how can you argue that point. Great statement Corey:clap:

Heat-On-Fire!!!
03-22-2010, 01:26 PM
We won't know how good rondo is until he has the boston celtics to himself( which will be an about 2 years).

DaBUU
03-22-2010, 01:32 PM
I actually do. He's averaging 20/5/5 (with the assist numbers rising) as a rookie, while leading his team. That's pretty solid if you ask me. That's much better than Rose's rookie year (where he had a better supporting cast) and is even a bit better than Rose's numbers this season even with a year of growing up.

I'd take Evans.

Yeah lets discount the fact Rose is an AllStar and has been picked by many coaches, experts, etc to become the best PG in the game very soon. I hate saying hes better than Evans, cuz I love Evans' game, but he does everthing Tyreke does and does it a little faster. Too say you'd take Evans, still a rookie, ahead of an AllStar is hating just for the sake of hating.

Chronz
03-22-2010, 01:34 PM
Yeah lets discount the fact Rose is an AllStar and has been picked by many coaches, experts, etc to become the best PG in the game very soon. I hate saying hes better than Evans, cuz I love Evans' game, but he does everthing Tyreke does and does it a little faster. Too say you'd take Evans, still a rookie, ahead of an AllStar is hating just for the sake of hating.
Nope, Being a rookie doesnt DQ him from this and all-star selections dont matter as much as performance. Based on PERFORMANCE, they close. And what they may become has nothing to do with the NOW.

Hawkeye15
03-22-2010, 01:40 PM
Yeah lets discount the fact Rose is an AllStar and has been picked by many coaches, experts, etc to become the best PG in the game very soon. I hate saying hes better than Evans, cuz I love Evans' game, but he does everthing Tyreke does and does it a little faster. Too say you'd take Evans, still a rookie, ahead of an AllStar is hating just for the sake of hating.

I would personally take Evans ahead of Rondo at this juncture. An being an all star doesn't mean you are better than a non all star. It means you play on a great team in many cases.
Put Rondo on a crappy team where he is the focus. Not gonna do what Tyreke does offensively. The difference TODAY is Rondo is a good defender. But Tyreke is a better offensive player easily

DaBUU
03-22-2010, 01:59 PM
Nope, Being a rookie doesnt DQ him from this and all-star selections dont matter as much as performance. Based on PERFORMANCE, they close. And what they may become has nothing to do with the NOW.

I agree just cuz hes a rookie doesnt mean he's dq'd from the dicussion, and I also realize being an AllStar isnt the end all, hell BJ Armstrong was an All Star one year. But Rose was picked cuz hes arguably the best offensive PG in the game, not cuz hes on a great team, obviously. The homer in me picks Rose ahead of Evans, but to be honest its really close. IMO these two guys will be the two best PGs in the game for years to come. I'd take either one of them ahead of Rondo any day of the week, they're both better. I'll go as far as saying I'd take Evans over Paul at this point too.

Agar81
03-22-2010, 02:17 PM
I just spent the last 30 or so minutes reading through every single post. Bulls fans: can you actually accredit your points with stats to back it up or will you continue to unintelligibly praise the "carrot". Celtics fans have used stats in almost all cases, and I will reiterate. Scoring isn't everything for a point guard; being a great passing floor general and distributing to their teamates is more important. Rondo can rebound as well, and he happens to lead the league in steals. In games where the C's have been without Pierce or KG, Rondo scores 20+ consistently. Rose scores that much because he is the primary option on his team, and he plays the role of a combo guard as well. He can pass, but he cares more about scoring. Rondo doesn't care about his scoring; He tries to distribute and provide for his teammates-what a real point guard should do.

Even fans of other teams have said Rondo is better than Rose, just making a statement that a lot of the Bulls fans are homers (I have seen a couple could posts by them in the thread however). You Bulls fans can continue to just say "Rose>Rondo", but the argument appears to have been closed.

Draco
03-22-2010, 02:21 PM
I actually do. He's averaging 20/5/5 (with the assist numbers rising) as a rookie, while leading his team. That's pretty solid if you ask me. That's much better than Rose's rookie year (where he had a better supporting cast) and is even a bit better than Rose's numbers this season even with a year of growing up.

I'd take Evans.

To me the most conclusive thing about 20/5/5 in year one is that Reke is the best player on the Kings. The fact that 20/5/5 is similar to Rose's first year production means to me that the better player is an arguable debate. The only way to know with certainty is to put Reke on the 2008/09 Bulls and Rose on the 09/10 Kings.

Sox72
03-22-2010, 02:26 PM
Rose > Rondo

The almighty carrot comparison has spoken.


I just spent the last 30 or so minutes reading through every single post. Bulls fans: can you actually accredit your points with stats to back it up or will you continue to unintelligibly praise the "carrot". Celtics fans have used stats in almost all cases, and I will reiterate. Scoring isn't everything for a point guard; being a great passing floor general and distributing to their teamates is more important. Rondo can rebound as well, and he happens to lead the league in steals. In games where the C's have been without Pierce or KG, Rondo scores 20+ consistently. Rose scores that much because he is the primary option on his team, and he plays the role of a combo guard as well. He can pass, but he cares more about scoring. Rondo doesn't care about his scoring; He tries to distribute and provide for his teammates-what a real point guard should do.

Even fans of other teams have said Rondo is better than Rose, just making a statement that a lot of the Bulls fans are homers (I have seen a couple could posts by them in the thread however). You Bulls fans can continue to just say "Rose>Rondo", but the argument appears to have been closed.

You're right. It was closed during Post #5.

DaBUU
03-22-2010, 02:27 PM
I just spent the last 30 or so minutes reading through every single post. Bulls fans: can you actually accredit your points with stats to back it up or will you continue to unintelligibly praise the "carrot". Celtics fans have used stats in almost all cases, and I will reiterate. Scoring isn't everything for a point guard; being a great passing floor general and distributing to their teamates is more important. Rondo can rebound as well, and he happens to lead the league in steals. In games where the C's have been without Pierce or KG, Rondo scores 20+ consistently. Rose scores that much because he is the primary option on his team, and he plays the role of a combo guard as well. He can pass, but he cares more about scoring. Rondo doesn't care about his scoring; He tries to distribute and provide for his teammates-what a real point guard should do.

Even fans of other teams have said Rondo is better than Rose, just making a statement that a lot of the Bulls fans are homers (I have seen a couple could posts by them in the thread however). You Bulls fans can continue to just say "Rose>Rondo", but the argument appears to have been closed.

Rose is capable of scoring or distributing, but on this team he has to score cuz he is the only offense we have. If it was up to him, he'd pass the ball 9 times out of ten, hes always saying how hes uncomfortable scoring before passing cuz hes a PG. He constantly get his teamates open looks by either breaking down the D off the dribble of drawing a double team, but he plays with a bunch of d-bags that cant finish. Hes faster, stronger, bigger, and quicker than Rondo and has a deadlier mid range J. Thats not being a homer, thats just how it is. Theres no Gm in the league or coach for that matter that would take Rondo ahead of Rose.

Tony_Starks
03-22-2010, 02:28 PM
Defensively Rondo is elite. But as long as defenders are backing up daring him to shoot and he can't knock down a open J I don't think he will be considered an elite player overall.

His fg% is actually good but its skewed because he gets a lot of points in the paint. If you were to break it down to actuall outside shots it would be pretty horrible. His 3pt and FT percenatges show you he flat out can't shoot.

DaBUU
03-22-2010, 02:30 PM
You're right. It was closed during Post #5.

Truth. Really not much anyone can say after the carrot speaks.

Corey
03-22-2010, 02:33 PM
To me the most conclusive thing about 20/5/5 in year one is that Reke is the best player on the Kings. The fact that 20/5/5 is similar to Rose's first year production means to me that the better player is an arguable debate. The only way to know with certainty is to put Reke on the 2008/09 Bulls and Rose on the 09/10 Kings.
I don't know if you consider it a good stat, but Evans' PER is 2.4 greater than Rose's rookie year, which is a pretty decent margin.

Also, many would argue that Rose was the best player on HIS team the last two years, so saying the same for Evans shouldn't really have anything to do with this comparison.

Hawkeye15
03-22-2010, 02:34 PM
I agree just cuz hes a rookie doesnt mean he's dq'd from the dicussion, and I also realize being an AllStar isnt the end all, hell BJ Armstrong was an All Star one year. But Rose was picked cuz hes arguably the best offensive PG in the game, not cuz hes on a great team, obviously. The homer in me picks Rose ahead of Evans, but to be honest its really close. IMO these two guys will be the two best PGs in the game for years to come. I'd take either one of them ahead of Rondo any day of the week, they're both better. I'll go as far as saying I'd take Evans over Paul at this point too.

and you were doing so good. Your entire post became irrational with a single statment.

IndyRealist
03-22-2010, 02:36 PM
I still think he's a slight notch below Paul and Deron.
He's close, but l don't think he's elite yet.

Paul, Deron, Nash, and Billups are at the top. Then Rondo, Rose, Parker.

Can't argue with that.

Draco
03-22-2010, 02:37 PM
I don't know if you consider it a good stat, but Evans' PER is 2.4 greater than Rose's rookie year, which is a pretty decent margin.

Also, many would argue that Rose was the best player on HIS team the last two years, so saying the same for Evans shouldn't really have anything to do with this comparison.

I'm of the opinion that BG7 was the best player on the Bulls in 2008/09.

At any rate, for me.. the fact remains that playing for different teams makes it impossible to account for how different roles, responsibilities, standards and teammates affect one player's stat line or PER. It might be a lot easier if you're talking about two players with a lot more career under their belt.

sargon21
03-22-2010, 02:37 PM
-you guys are just using statements not based on by facts, rose is actually a great playmaker and makes plays for his teammates, but the fact is that no one on the bulls can shoot for ****, just look at their percentages, so give rose ray allen and kg who knocks down that mid jumper consistently, his assists would be much higher
-rose is does what's asked of him for this team, earlier in the year rose wasnt scoring enough for us to win and acting like a distributor, but it wasn't working and we weren't winning, whereas rondo is asked to be the distributor b/c theres plenty of scoring options on his team
-rondo's defense is good, but i would just like to state that with the celtics defense and the bodies they have inside it allows him to go for steals more often which boost up that stat, and he is still not a big guard to pg's and gets overmatched at some points in the game
-rose's jumper is wayy better than rondo's, he knocks it down with such consistency compared to last year, and should deserve big credit for improving in that phase of the game, and whoever said rondo is better at penetrating is just wrong
-and for the sake of argument, you could decide whether or not you want to include rose's injury of his ankle early on in the year, where his speed and athleticism was greatly impacted, the last 3 months he's been avg. 23 and 6

Hawkeye15
03-22-2010, 02:42 PM
as far as Rose/Rondo, Rondo is better right now. Part of that is he is surrounded by the help that gives him a great passer rating, and he is better defender right now. His offensive rating shows higher due to him not being the one taking shots with the clock down, or forcing, where Rose does. So comparing stats here is not the only way, but at the moment, Rondo is better.
That being said, Rose WILL be better in a season or two when Rondo's shield of talent ages and he is forced to face his weaknesses.

DaBUU
03-22-2010, 02:42 PM
I don't know if you consider it a good stat, but Evans' PER is 2.4 greater than Rose's rookie year, which is a pretty decent margin.

Also, many would argue that Rose was the best player on HIS team the last two years, so saying the same for Evans shouldn't really have anything to do with this comparison.

I have no problem with the Rose-Evans comparison, Evans is a beast. Its when people compare Rondo to those two guys is when is when i have to wholeheartedly disagree.

sargon21
03-22-2010, 02:43 PM
anyone else hear think evans should move to sg?

DaBUU
03-22-2010, 02:44 PM
[/B]

and you were doing so good. Your entire post became irrational with a single statment.

maybe I went too far with that one.

Cool007
03-22-2010, 02:47 PM
anyone else hear think evans should move to sg?

He is a Shooting Guard and playing Shooting Guard now as well.

That is one of the main reason they moved Martin - to make room for Evans there FULL TIME.

Draco
03-22-2010, 02:49 PM
anyone else hear think evans should move to sg?

If you're a Bulls fan you hope that Rose can become an elite distributor.. if you're a Kings fan you hope that Evans' can impact a game as much as Wade or Roy. Some people might think of Evans as "mini-Lebron" but I'll pass on that...

Cool007
03-22-2010, 02:50 PM
as far as Rose/Rondo, Rondo is better right now. Part of that is he is surrounded by the help that gives him a great passer rating, and he is better defender right now. His offensive rating shows higher due to him not being the one taking shots with the clock down, or forcing, where Rose does. So comparing stats here is not the only way, but at the moment, Rondo is better.
That being said, Rose WILL be better in a season or two when Rondo's shield of talent ages and he is forced to face his weaknesses.

That's Fair.

IMO, when you look at the overall season then yes I agree Rondo is BARELY better than Rose.

When you discount those games where Rose played injured, then I say Rose and Rondo are in the same tier as PGs.

/thread.

DaBUU
03-22-2010, 02:51 PM
That's Fair.

IMO, when you look at the overall season then yes I agree Rondo is BARELY better than Rose.

When you discount those games where Rose played injured, then I say Rose and Rondo are in the same tier as PGs.

/thread.

I'll second that, Rondo is better than an injured Rose.

Corey
03-22-2010, 02:52 PM
-you guys are just using statements not based on by facts, rose is actually a great playmaker and makes plays for his teammates, but the fact is that no one on the bulls can shoot for ****, just look at their percentages, so give rose ray allen and kg who knocks down that mid jumper consistently, his assists would be much higher
-rose is does what's asked of him for this team, earlier in the year rose wasnt scoring enough for us to win and acting like a distributor, but it wasn't working and we weren't winning, whereas rondo is asked to be the distributor b/c theres plenty of scoring options on his team
-rondo's defense is good, but i would just like to state that with the celtics defense and the bodies they have inside it allows him to go for steals more often which boost up that stat, and he is still not a big guard to pg's and gets overmatched at some points in the game
-rose's jumper is wayy better than rondo's, he knocks it down with such consistency compared to last year, and should deserve big credit for improving in that phase of the game, and whoever said rondo is better at penetrating is just wrong
-and for the sake of argument, you could decide whether or not you want to include rose's injury of his ankle early on in the year, where his speed and athleticism was greatly impacted, the last 3 months he's been avg. 23 and 6

You're bashing other people on using 'statements not based on facts' yet you fail to include one statistic in your argument.

Hawkeye15
03-22-2010, 02:54 PM
That's Fair.

IMO, when you look at the overall season then yes I agree Rondo is BARELY better than Rose.

When you discount those games where Rose played injured, then I say Rose and Rondo are in the same tier as PGs.

/thread.

here is another way to look at it. Would Rose be better for the Celtics than Rondo? I don't think so. But would Rondo be better for the Bulls than Rose? Nope on that one as well.

blams
03-22-2010, 02:56 PM
I didn't know 14 ppg and 10 apg (which are elite numbers) mean 13 ppg and 9 apg.

Those aren't elite numbers

avrpatsfan
03-22-2010, 02:57 PM
You're bashing other people on using 'statements not based on facts' yet you fail to include one statistic in your argument.

Agreed. When you don't state facts and just state opinions it doesn't prove anything. I want to see another Bulls Celtics series so we can prove Rondo > Rose. The carrot never lies.

DaBUU
03-22-2010, 03:00 PM
here is another way to look at it. Would Rose be better for the Celtics than Rondo? I don't think so. But would Rondo be better for the Bulls than Rose? Nope on that one as well.

you know there are a bunch of really good young PG's in the league right now, with more on the way. Each one affects his team positively in a lot of different ways, some more than others. And to be honest a lot of my Rondo hate comes from the way he played like a punk in the playoffs last year, but the guy does bring a lot of things to the table for the Celtics. We can argue all day, and we usually do, but at the end of the day they all are good young players that are reviving the NBA. And as seeing as tho BB is my favorite sport, I appreciate that.

Cool007
03-22-2010, 03:02 PM
here is another way to look at it. Would Rose be better for the Celtics than Rondo? I don't think so. But would Rondo be better for the Bulls than Rose? Nope on that one as well.

Are you kidding me???

Rose on the Celtics would be like "GTFO".

RIGHT NOW - Key word is RIGHT NOW, the only thing Rondo has over Rose is defense. Rose is totally UNDERRATED as a playmaker/floor General.

People look at his low assist numbers and just jump to conclusions that "Oh Gee, Rose is only averaging close to 6apg so he must be a combo guard or a shoot first PG or is not a good playmaker".

FALSE.



You guys completely overlook but Most of the Season Rose has played with ANOTHER POINT GUARD in Hinrich - Bulls run a DUAL PG system that none of those PGs team run.

Why do we run that??? Well for 1) Vinny is IDIOT and 2) we don't have a True SG on the team once Gordon left.

Meaning we have 2 PGs running the system and half the time Hinrich has the ball and he LOVES TO overdribble and run the air out of the ball.

Not to mention when you don't have any good 3pt shooters (bulls are in the bottom of the league in 3pt shooting) and when you also don't have a talented Big man who can score or have any clue of running pick and roll (we have players taht NEVER ROLL). Thanks to Vinny's RETARTED Kindergarten Offensive system.

You guys don't think if Rose was on the Jazz/Celtics/Suns type team, he would be averaging 8-9apg ATLEAST???

Ofcourse if he had more weapons, he would score less but even more efficient if he has the spacing that those teams have.

Cool007
03-22-2010, 03:06 PM
Agreed. When you don't state facts and just state opinions it doesn't prove anything. I want to see another Bulls Celtics series so we can prove Rondo > Rose. The carrot never lies.

I also wish it happens coz I can guarantee that Rose would make Rondo look like Mike James on defense.

I also can guarantee that Rondo would come nowhere close to a trip dub that he did last year.

Corey
03-22-2010, 03:10 PM
To be fair to the people bringing up Rondo and Rose's PPG....

Rondo is averaging 6.5 less shot attempts per game, while shooting a higher percentage than Rose.

Give Rondo the 17.5 shots Rose is getting per game and I guarantee he'd be scoring more than 14 per game.

Hawkeye15
03-22-2010, 03:13 PM
To be fair to the people bringing up Rondo and Rose's PPG....

Rondo is averaging 6.5 less shot attempts per game, while shooting a higher percentage than Rose.

Give Rondo the 17.5 shots Rose is getting per game and I guarantee he'd be scoring more than 14 per game.

well, Rondo is given the mid range all night long. You play that game with Rose, and goodnight

Cool007
03-22-2010, 03:15 PM
To be fair to the people bringing up Rondo and Rose's PPG....

Rondo is averaging 6.5 less shot attempts per game, while shooting a higher percentage than Rose.

Give Rondo the 17.5 shots Rose is getting per game and I guarantee he'd be scoring more than 14 per game.

Wow! It's like me saying Give Aaron Gray like 5 more shots and 20 more mpg and he would be averaging what Nene is doing.

Guess what? You give a guy more shots, that doesn't really mean that they will score more, and even if they do, their efficiency would likely drop and so would his FG% and etc. Not to mention other problems like chemistry issues, or they may not win as many games now etc etc.

Not to mention, imagine if Rondo had to score as a 1st option (a player that can't shoot and not that good of a ft shooter either).

It's not always black and white like that.

Cool007
03-22-2010, 03:18 PM
With that said, I don't think either is better tahn the other.

I put it this way:

Tier 1: CP3, Deron, Nash

Tier 2: Billups, Rose, Rondo, Kidd

Tier 3: Westbrook, Jennings, Davis, etc.

bosoxlover12
03-22-2010, 03:19 PM
I am a Celtics fan. Rondo is ridiculous. But i also watch a lot of NBA games too. It was been clearly stated before, and i fully agree with it. There is a consensus top 4 PGs: Paul, Nash, Billups, and Williams. Rondo is probably number 5. As for Derrick Rose, his stats are so inflated that it is crazy. Russell Westbrook has the same stats, and he played behind a guy who is second all time for most 20+ point games consec. in Kevin Durant. Rose is the number one scorer in Chicago. You can compare him to Tyreke Evans, 20.4ppg 5.7apg 0.8spg for Rose, 20.3ppg 5.6apg 1.5spg for Evans. VERY similar stats. I'd say for now, Rose is better than Evans, but not even close to Rondo.

For rating them, the top 4 are all 'A's. Rondo is an 'A-', with 'A' potential. Rose is a 'B', with 'A' potential.

But to say he's better than Rondo. Your crazy man!

69centers
03-22-2010, 03:25 PM
You guys completely overlook but Most of the Season Rose has played with ANOTHER POINT GUARD in Hinrich - Bulls run a DUAL PG system that none of those PGs team run.

Rose & Hinrich = 10.3 APG
Rondo by himself = 9.7 APG

Rondo's assists nearly wipes out 2 players. :whistle:

Hawkeye15
03-22-2010, 03:26 PM
With that said, I don't think either is better tahn the other.

I put it this way:

Tier 1: CP3, Deron, Nash

Tier 2: Billups, Rose, Rondo, Kidd

Tier 3: Westbrook, Jennings, Davis, etc.

CP3, Deron, Billups, Nash
Parker, Kidd, Rose, Westbrook, Rondo
Jennings, Davis, Brooks, Curry, Mo

left Evans out, moved to SG

bosoxlover12
03-22-2010, 03:29 PM
Wow! It's like me saying Give Aaron Gray like 5 more shots and 20 more mpg and he would be averaging what Nene is doing.

Guess what? You give a guy more shots, that doesn't really mean that they will score more, and even if they do, their efficiency would likely drop and so would his FG% and etc. Not to mention other problems like chemistry issues, or they may not win as many games now etc etc.

Not to mention, imagine if Rondo had to score as a 1st option (a player that can't shoot and not that good of a ft shooter either).

It's not always black and white like that.

Rondo has a .515 FG%, Rose has a .487%

Rose makes about 8.57 FG/game
Rondo would have 8.67 FG/game if he had the same amount of shots.

Rondo would average 20.64 ppg, with Rose averaging 20.4

Corey
03-22-2010, 03:34 PM
Wow! It's like me saying Give Aaron Gray like 5 more shots and 20 more mpg and he would be averaging what Nene is doing.
That's an absolutely terrible comparison, and you know it.


Guess what? You give a guy more shots, that doesn't really mean that they will score more, and even if they do, their efficiency would likely drop and so would his FG% and etc. Not to mention other problems like chemistry issues, or they may not win as many games now etc etc.
What does that have to do with anything? Rondo is shooting the highest percentage of any starting point guard. Increased shots will result in a higher point total...that isn't really arguable.

Not to mention, imagine if Rondo had to score as a 1st option (a player that can't shoot and not that good of a ft shooter either).
Looked pretty good when he was the first option in the playoffs and he averaged a triple double.

celtisox41
03-22-2010, 03:34 PM
Are you kidding me???

Rose on the Celtics would be like "GTFO".

RIGHT NOW - Key word is RIGHT NOW, the only thing Rondo has over Rose is defense. Rose is totally UNDERRATED as a playmaker/floor General.

People look at his low assist numbers and just jump to conclusions that "Oh Gee, Rose is only averaging close to 6apg so he must be a combo guard or a shoot first PG or is not a good playmaker".

FALSE.



You guys completely overlook but Most of the Season Rose has played with ANOTHER POINT GUARD in Hinrich - Bulls run a DUAL PG system that none of those PGs team run.

Why do we run that??? Well for 1) Vinny is IDIOT and 2) we don't have a True SG on the team once Gordon left.

Meaning we have 2 PGs running the system and half the time Hinrich has the ball and he LOVES TO overdribble and run the air out of the ball.

Not to mention when you don't have any good 3pt shooters (bulls are in the bottom of the league in 3pt shooting) and when you also don't have a talented Big man who can score or have any clue of running pick and roll (we have players taht NEVER ROLL). Thanks to Vinny's RETARTED Kindergarten Offensive system.

You guys don't think if Rose was on the Jazz/Celtics/Suns type team, he would be averaging 8-9apg ATLEAST???

Ofcourse if he had more weapons, he would score less but even more efficient if he has the spacing that those teams have.

Exactly. Rose would score less, and that's the only thing he's good at, playmaking and scoring. Rondo only scores about 2-4 points less than Rose, he has 5 more assists per game and he is by far the better defender

Cool007
03-22-2010, 03:36 PM
Rose & Hinrich = 10.3 APG
Rondo by himself = 9.7 APG

Rondo's assists nearly wipes out 2 players. :whistle:

If you want to play that game then ok.

Bulls starting backcourt = 10.2apg

Celtics starting backcourt = 12.4apg

Measly 2apg more than Bulls backcourt. Not a huge difference isn't it.

That shows that when there is a PG who dominates the ball and he is the only one that sets up everything, then you don't have any other player average more than 3apg.

While on the Bulls team - the next closest is Hinrich and he is averaging like 4.6apg

Shows clearly that Bulls run the DUAL PG system with both Hinrich AND Rose end up getting assists - as it's not 1 player dominant like Celtics.

celtisox41
03-22-2010, 03:39 PM
Wow! It's like me saying Give Aaron Gray like 5 more shots and 20 more mpg and he would be averaging what Nene is doing.

Guess what? You give a guy more shots, that doesn't really mean that they will score more, and even if they do, their efficiency would likely drop and so would his FG% and etc. Not to mention other problems like chemistry issues, or they may not win as many games now etc etc.

Not to mention, imagine if Rondo had to score as a 1st option (a player that can't shoot and not that good of a ft shooter either).

It's not always black and white like that.

Guess what, there are nights where rondo is the first option, and those are usually the nights he burns guards like rose who can't defend for their lives. And don't bring up rondo's shooting, he's gotten better, and rose isn't exactly reggie miller either, they're about the same and rondo is a better passer, rebounder, and playmaker

bosoxlover12
03-22-2010, 03:39 PM
ESPN Fantasy Points for PGs

In Green- actual PGs, not PG/SGs..
1. Steve Nash, Pho PG-13.42
2. Jason Kidd, Dal PG-11.56
3. Stephen Curry, GS PG, SG-10.94
4. Chauncey Billups, Den PG-10.34
5. Deron Williams, Uta PG-10.29
6. Rajon Rondo, Bos PG-9.23
7. Baron Davis, LAC PG-8.87
8. Aaron Brooks, Hou PG-8.23
9. Monta Ellis, GS PG, SG-8.19
10. Chris Paul, Nor PG-7.48
11. Mo Williams, Cle PG-7.24
12. Tyreke Evans, Sac PG, SG- 6.67
13. Jamal Crawford, Atl SG, PG-6.65
14. Jason Terry, Dal SG, PG-6.56
15. Russell Westbrook, OKC PG-6.41
16. Raymond Felton, Cha PG-5.84
17. Brandon Jennings, Mil PG-5.81
18. Derrick Rose, Chi PG-5.72

so according to ESPN, Rondo is the #5 PG in the NBA, Rose is #13

Hawkeye15
03-22-2010, 03:41 PM
ESPN Fantasy Points for PGs

1. Steve Nash, Pho PG-13.42
2. Jason Kidd, Dal PG-11.56
3. Stephen Curry, GS PG, SG-10.94
4. Chauncey Billups, Den PG-10.34
5. Deron Williams, Uta PG-10.29
6. Rajon Rondo, Bos PG-9.23
7. Baron Davis, LAC PG-8.87
8. Aaron Brooks, Hou PG-8.23
9. Monta Ellis, GS PG, SG-8.19
10. Chris Paul, Nor PG-7.48
11. Mo Williams, Cle PG-7.24
12. Tyreke Evans, Sac PG, SG- 6.67
13. Jamal Crawford, Atl SG, PG-6.65
14. Jason Terry, Dal SG, PG-6.56
15. Russell Westbrook, OKC PG-6.41
16. Raymond Felton, Cha PG-5.84
17. Brandon Jennings, Mil PG-5.81
18. Derrick Rose, Chi PG-5.72

so your willing to concede that Curry is better than both? Fantasy numbers mean nothing dude, cmon

Cool007
03-22-2010, 03:41 PM
That's an absolutely terrible comparison, and you know it.


What does that have to do with anything? Rondo is shooting the highest percentage of any starting point guard. Increased shots will result in a higher point total...that isn't really arguable.

Oh dear god. So you gave a player more shots and his efficiency wouldn't get hit nor his FG%????

Yes, it will result in a higher point total but his fg% will most likely drop.



Looked pretty good when he was the first option in the playoffs and he averaged a triple double.

Huh??? Rondo was a first option??? So why were the Bulls concentrating and their entire defense was focusing on Allen and Pierce??? How stupid are they?

Not to mention how many clutch shots and big time scoring in the 4th qtr Allen and Pierce had.

celtisox41
03-22-2010, 03:43 PM
Oh dear god. So you gave a player more shots and his efficiency wouldn't get hit nor his FG%????

Yes, it will result in a higher point total but his fg% will most likely drop.




Huh??? Rondo was a first option??? So why were the Bulls concentrating and their entire defense was focusing on Allen and Pierce??? How stupid are they?

Not to mention how many clutch shots and big time scoring in the 4th qtr Allen and Pierce had.

Rondo wasn't the first option, he was forced to be because the bulls put everything they had into stopping allen and pierce so rose didn't have the help he needed to stop rondo and he couldn't do it on his own

Corey
03-22-2010, 03:44 PM
Oh dear god. So you gave a player more shots and his efficiency wouldn't get hit nor his FG%????

Yes, it will result in a higher point total but his fg% will most likely drop.
Considering a majority of his shot attempts come from the paint, the drop would be minuscule if at all.


Huh??? Rondo was a first option??? So why were the Bulls concentrating and their entire defense was focusing on Allen and Pierce??? How stupid are they?


Apparently pretty stupid considering Rondo ate them alive since game one and still made no changes to stop him.

Cool007
03-22-2010, 03:44 PM
Guess what, there are nights where rondo is the first option, and those are usually the nights he burns guards like rose who can't defend for their lives. And don't bring up rondo's shooting, he's gotten better, and rose isn't exactly reggie miller either, they're about the same and rondo is a better passer, rebounder, and playmaker

So there are nights here and there right???

Well, Rose is the first option EVERY SINGLE NIGHT.

Haahaa. Rose is one of the better mid-range shooter already this year - go look it up. Let me know if you need my help.

Cool007
03-22-2010, 03:45 PM
Rondo wasn't the first option, he was forced to be because the bulls put everything they had into stopping allen and pierce so rose didn't have the help he needed to stop rondo and he couldn't do it on his own

I won't disagree with taht.

bosoxlover12
03-22-2010, 03:48 PM
If you want to play that game then ok.

Bulls starting backcourt = 10.2apg

Celtics starting backcourt = 12.4apg

Measly 2apg more than Bulls backcourt. Not a huge difference isn't it.

That shows that when there is a PG who dominates the ball and he is the only one that sets up everything, then you don't have any other player average more than 3apg.

While on the Bulls team - the next closest is Hinrich and he is averaging like 4.6apg

Shows clearly that Bulls run the DUAL PG system with both Hinrich AND Rose end up getting assists - as it's not 1 player dominant like Celtics.

im not seeing your point... it seems as you are contradicting yourself.. you are saying that the Celtics get 2 more assists than Chicago, the Bulls use 2 PGs, and Rondo is the only Celtic to get assists. So aren't you saying that Rondo is BETTER??

Cool007
03-22-2010, 03:50 PM
Considering a majority of his shot attempts come from the paint, the drop would be minuscule if at all.

So you think if he is the clear first option, he would continually get those open lanes for him to drive right??? Sure whatever you want to believe.

In reality, if he is the team's first option and don't have options like KG/Pierce/Allen, then teams would just shut the lane down and dare him to shoot all day long. Thus his FG PCt would go down.

Right now he is getting a lot of open lane coz of teams concentrating on Pierce/KG and Allen.



Apparently pretty stupid considering Rondo ate them alive since game one and still made no changes to stop him.



Apparantly that's what teams are STILL doing and will be doing as long as they still have Pierce/Allen/KG on the team.

Remember what Carter said about a month ago vs Celtics, that they really try to stop their big 3 and let Rondo get his as a 4th option as they can live with that.

THat is what teams do. Why do you think most teams fans have been saying - let's see how good Rondo is when those big 3 retire or get traded and when Rondo is the 1st option (and real first option).

bosoxlover12
03-22-2010, 03:51 PM
so your willing to concede that Curry is better than both? Fantasy numbers mean nothing dude, cmon

Curry is a 2 guard also. i meant only PGs

Cool007
03-22-2010, 03:52 PM
im not seeing your point... it seems as you are contradicting yourself.. you are saying that the Celtics get 2 more assists than Chicago, the Bulls use 2 PGs, and Rondo is the only Celtic to get assists. So aren't you saying that Rondo is BETTER??

No, my point was that The next closest to Rondo was Allen to get 2.7apg while Rose has Hinrich who gets 4.7apg - so ofcourse Rose will not average too many assists - having to play with another PG next to him.

Also, that difference in 2apg to show that the difference is not that huge.

Hawkeye15
03-22-2010, 03:56 PM
Curry is a 2 guard also. i meant only PGs

point stands, otherwise Paul is the 11th best PG. Get it?
Fantasy only takes positives, and takes away the simplest of negatives, not adjusting for efficiency, pace of team, minutes played, etc.
Essentially, using fantasy numbers is ridiculous.

Corey
03-22-2010, 04:00 PM
So you think if he is the clear first option, he would continually get those open lanes for him to drive right??? Sure whatever you want to believe.
Quite frankly, yes. Teams already know that he doesn't like to shoot, they still gameplan on him driving, and he still does it every game with success.


Right now he is getting a lot of open lane coz of teams concentrating on Pierce/KG and Allen.
Considering the Celtics have had about 8 games with all three of them healthy together, I can't agree with that, especially because Garnett is in the 5-15 foot range the entire game, Perk is in the paint, and Pierce slashes. If anything, they clog the lane for Rondo.

Corey
03-22-2010, 04:01 PM
point stands, otherwise Paul is the 11th best PG. Get it?
Fantasy only takes positives, and takes away the simplest of negatives, not adjusting for efficiency, pace of team, minutes played, etc.
Essentially, using fantasy numbers is ridiculous.

I agree that using fantasy points in this comparison is pointless, but if we're talking about pure production...Rondo has been more effective than Paul this year because he's been on the court.

But I agree with you.

bosoxlover12
03-22-2010, 04:02 PM
point stands, otherwise Paul is the 11th best PG. Get it?
Fantasy only takes positives, and takes away the simplest of negatives, not adjusting for efficiency, pace of team, minutes played, etc.
Essentially, using fantasy numbers is ridiculous.

okay, how bout wins?

on my list: the only ones who have less wins than rose is the two Warriors, Baron Davis, and Tyreke Evans. Great players lead their teams to wins. Rose isnt.


And two of them are rookies, one is on the team who's #1 overall pick isn't playing, and a Warrior.

Cool007
03-22-2010, 04:10 PM
okay, how bout wins?

on my list: the only ones who have less wins than rose is the two Warriors, Baron Davis, and Tyreke Evans. Great players lead their teams to wins. Rose isnt.


And two of them are rookies, one is on the team who's #1 overall pick isn't playing, and a Warrior.

What are you talking about here???

You mean to say Rose doesn't have impact on winning???

FWIW, Bulls were the 5th seed when they were healthy around all-star break. Since then Noah went out and we made a couple of trades that didn't help us and then Deng went down and then Rose was injured.

So with team being healthy enough, Rose and Bulls were 5th seed in the East and were beating Western Conference playoff teams left and right on the road, but you came here to say Rose doesn't impact winning???

Really???

bosoxlover12
03-22-2010, 04:12 PM
What are you talking about here???

the list i posted b4 of the top Pgs in the nba

Corey
03-22-2010, 04:20 PM
For anyone else interested in a somewhat unique stat (Developed by Bill James):

WS (WinShares) is calculated to estimate how many wins a player has contributed to his team.

This season, Rondo is averaging 8.7 WS (9.9 last season), while Rose is averaging 4.3 (4.9 last year).

If you feel like reading about how WS is compiled, here's a LINK (http://www.basketball-reference.com/about/ws.html)

Hawkeye15
03-22-2010, 04:22 PM
okay, how bout wins?

on my list: the only ones who have less wins than rose is the two Warriors, Baron Davis, and Tyreke Evans. Great players lead their teams to wins. Rose isnt.


And two of them are rookies, one is on the team who's #1 overall pick isn't playing, and a Warrior.

are you kidding me dude? Rondo "leads" his team to wins? Before he got 2 future hall of famers, alongside PP, he "led" a team to a 33 win season while embarrasing himself from the field.
You are going to get buried if you continue pushing Rondo's ability on me bro.

SeoulBeatz
03-22-2010, 04:24 PM
eh i can tell most of these kids hate on Rondo because they hate Boston.

Rondo is ALMOST an elite PG right now IMO (only thing keeping him from being elite is his shooting. His FT% is worse than mine was I was in 4th grade, I honestly don't know why he's such a bad shooter).

Still top 5 though without a doubt.

Rondo is also a better PG than Rose, that's obvious.

Rose is a better combo guard and scorer.

Cool007
03-22-2010, 04:25 PM
For anyone else interested in a somewhat unique stat (Developed by Bill James):

WS (WinShares) is calculated to estimate how many wins a player has contributed to his team.

This season, Rondo is averaging 8.7 WS (9.9 last season), while Rose is averaging 4.3 (4.9 last year).

If you feel like reading about how WS is compiled, here's a LINK (http://www.basketball-reference.com/about/ws.html)


Oh wait so we penalize Rose for being on a FAR WORSE team right???

You take out Rondo and put Hinrich there instead let's say, do you think Celtics be worse than 5th seed in the East???

Now take out Rose and let's leave Hinrich in there as a Full time PG, do you think Bulls would anywhere close to more than even 20 wins????

Hawkeye15
03-22-2010, 04:27 PM
For anyone else interested in a somewhat unique stat (Developed by Bill James):

WS (WinShares) is calculated to estimate how many wins a player has contributed to his team.

This season, Rondo is averaging 8.7 WS (9.9 last season), while Rose is averaging 4.3 (4.9 last year).

If you feel like reading about how WS is compiled, here's a LINK (http://www.basketball-reference.com/about/ws.html)

cmon man, you know there are many factors that have nothing to do with the player regarding win shares, especially when there is such a discprepancy on how many wins their respective teams get in the first place

Cool007
03-22-2010, 04:27 PM
eh i can tell most of these kids hate on Rondo because they hate Boston.

Rondo is ALMOST an elite PG right now IMO (only thing keeping him from being elite is his shooting. His FT% is worse than mine was I was in 4th grade, I honestly don't know why he's such a bad shooter).

Still top 5 though without a doubt.

Rondo is also a better PG than Rose, that's obvious.

Rose is a better combo guard and scorer.


Please. if you want to say Rondo is better and all then that's fine but why do you have to bring Rose down to make your point???

The Bold part is COMPLETELY False.

Corey
03-22-2010, 04:29 PM
I said FOR THOSE INTERESTED

You two clearly weren't interested, so there's no need to hate.

Hawkeye15
03-22-2010, 04:32 PM
I said FOR THOSE INTERESTED

You two clearly weren't interested, so there's no need to hate.

I have read it before. I know exactly how they are calculated. I was saying you can't use them to say one player is better than the other. Its comparable on two teams with similar records, sure.
No hate dude, sorry. Was just pointing out you were attempting to use a stat that has no bearing in the argument. Its like saying Anderson Varejo has a better win share the Al Jefferson. So?

Cool007
03-22-2010, 04:33 PM
I said FOR THOSE INTERESTED

You two clearly weren't interested, so there's no need to hate.

You had Rose in there, so ofcourse I was interested.

That stat is totally BS. The player on the worse team usually look really bad vs a player on a very good team.

Corey
03-22-2010, 04:38 PM
Okay, if you're going to use a bad team as an excuse, how do you explain both players' ORtg?

(A calculated estimation of points produced by a player per 100 possessions)

Rondo: 112
Rose: 105

Hawkeye15
03-22-2010, 04:39 PM
Okay, if you're going to use a bad team as an excuse, how do you explain both players' ORtg?

(A calculated estimation of points produced by a player per 100 possessions)

Rondo: 112
Rose: 105

what factors into this number? Tell me what you think it is

Cool007
03-22-2010, 04:49 PM
Okay, if you're going to use a bad team as an excuse, how do you explain both players' ORtg?

(A calculated estimation of points produced by a player per 100 possessions)

Rondo: 112
Rose: 105

Why do you have to bring up these type of stats???

Durant had ORtg of 111 last year. So you think Rondo is better than Durant from last year????

Durant has ORtg of 116 this year, so you think he is only marginally better than Rondo???

Or how about D-Wade? He has ORtg of 112 - same as Rondo so they are basically same right???

Hawkeye15
03-22-2010, 04:52 PM
While I think Rondo is better right now, Rose clearly will pass him soon.
Look at Rose over the past 3.5 months. He is blowing Rondo away, and that includes all the fancy metrics being used in the wrong way here.

bigsams50
03-22-2010, 04:52 PM
this thread should be renamed to Rose VS Rondo and then be moved to the comparisons forum and stickied.



BTW
Rondo > Rose

Corey
03-22-2010, 04:54 PM
Or how about D-Wade? He has ORtg of 112 - same as Rondo so they are basically same right???

No, considering its an efficiency rating, not a point rating.

Efficiency wise, using their stats...yes they are similar. Is Rondo anywhere close to Wade's production? Nope, and he never will be. Is he as efficient as Wade? According to statistics, yes.

Cool007
03-22-2010, 04:59 PM
While I think Rondo is better right now, Rose clearly will pass him soon.
Look at Rose over the past 3.5 months. He is blowing Rondo away, and that includes all the fancy metrics being used in the wrong way here.

Agree.

This is why I said earlier. If we count the games where Rose played hurt then Rondo is > Rose by slim margin

But if we don't and look at the last 3 months or so then Rose is arguably better.

But I would just end it here by saying that they are in the same tier. A tier below CP3/Williams/Nash

Pierzynski4Prez
03-22-2010, 05:03 PM
No, considering its an efficiency rating, not a point rating.

Efficiency wise, using their stats...yes they are similar. Is Rondo anywhere close to Wade's production? Nope, and he never will be. Is he as efficient as Wade? According to statistics, yes.

#'s don't mean ****.

If I was a PG for Boston, I would be getting a ****load of assists too if I had Allen, PP, Garnett, Sheed, etc to feed the ball too.

Now if my options were Hinrich, Pargo, Deng, Taj Gibson to feed the ball to, I'm going to probably get 1/3rd of the amount of assists.

This comparison is stupid until they are on the same playing field. They are PG's, so you automatically look at the assists category, when in this case, its too damn hard to compare.

All we know right now is that Rose can lead a team in his 2nd year to around a .500 record when he is playing along with averaging 20 points a game. (They were 4 above .500 though before half the team started going down with injuries)

Rondo-the jury is out until he is not playing alongside 2-3 hall of famers.

So for both sides, its not fair to make a comparison.

Boston Faithful
03-22-2010, 05:09 PM
My bad 13.9 ppg and 9.7apg. I'm sorry I failed to round up to give him A double double. But try espn.com or nba.com for up to the minute stats before posting false stats

Uh, you round up - not round down.

That's like fifth grade stuff.

Besides there's a big difference between 9 apg and 9.7 apg. Rondo's been hovering from 9.7-10.0 if you haven't been paying attention all season. A few weeks ago he was averaging 14.2 apg and 10.0 apg, those are elite stats. It's what Jason Kidd did for years.

Boston Faithful
03-22-2010, 05:11 PM
While I think Rondo is better right now, Rose clearly will pass him soon.
Look at Rose over the past 3.5 months. He is blowing Rondo away, and that includes all the fancy metrics being used in the wrong way here.

I don't know what you're talking about.

Because Rose is averaging alot of points on an awful team that just had a 1-9 stretch, that makes him better?

magichatnumber9
03-22-2010, 05:12 PM
#'s don't mean ****.

If I was a PG for Boston, I would be getting a ****load of assists too if I had Allen, PP, Garnett, Sheed, etc to feed the ball too.

Now if my options were Hinrich, Pargo, Deng, Taj Gibson to feed the ball to, I'm going to probably get 1/3rd of the amount of assists.

This comparison is stupid until they are on the same playing field. They are PG's, so you automatically look at the assists category, when in this case, its too damn hard to compare.

All we know right now is that Rose can lead a team in his 2nd year to around a .500 record when he is playing along with averaging 20 points a game. (They were 4 above .500 though before half the team started going down with injuries)

Rondo-the jury is out until he is not playing alongside 2-3 hall of famers.

So for both sides, its not fair to make a comparison.Are you talking about the 3 senior citizens. If that's your argument I'm gonna have to say you should stick to the White Sox. That was relevant 3 years ago, not anymore.

Pierzynski4Prez
03-22-2010, 05:13 PM
Uh, you round up - not round down.

That's like fifth grade stuff.

Besides there's a big difference between 9 apg and 9.7 apg. Rondo's been hovering from 9.7-10.0 if you haven't been paying attention all season. A few weeks ago he was averaging 14.2 apg and 10.0 apg, those are elite stats. It's what Jason Kidd did for years.

Except Kidd didn't need to play alongside 3 HOF players to do that.

magichatnumber9
03-22-2010, 05:14 PM
I don't know what you're talking about.

Because Rose is averaging alot of points on an awful team that just had a 1-9 stretch, that makes him better?
The whole thing is though is that Rose is suppose to be better then Rondo. The guy was the 1st overall pick in the draft. Rondo was drafted by Phoenix and tossed over to Boston. As far as I'm concerned Rose is underachieving.

DaBUU
03-22-2010, 05:14 PM
I don't know what you're talking about.

Because Rose is averaging alot of points on an awful team that just had a 1-9 stretch, that makes him better?

no ones basing it on the success of their teams, just talking about skill set. Rose missed 5 of those 10 games, and in the five he did play he was scoring 30+.

Pierzynski4Prez
03-22-2010, 05:15 PM
Are you talking about the 3 senior citizens. If that's your argument I'm gonna have to say you should stick to the White Sox. That was relevant 3 years ago, not anymore.

I can pull up the old "If the Bulls play the Celtics in the 1st round" thread and show numerous Celtics fans claim they haven't missed a beat, just been unlucky with injuries.

Or when it is time to stick up for Rondo, they are now Senior Citizens.

Pierzynski4Prez
03-22-2010, 05:16 PM
The whole thing is though is that Rose is suppose to be better then Rondo. The guy was the 1st overall pick in the draft. Rondo was drafted by Phoenix and tossed over to Boston. As far as I'm concerned Rose is underachieving.

Yes, because he has been in the NBA a whopping year and a half, and is already an All-star and averaging 20+ a game. Greatly underachieving.

Hawkeye15
03-22-2010, 05:24 PM
I don't know what you're talking about.

Because Rose is averaging alot of points on an awful team that just had a 1-9 stretch, that makes him better?

no, cause Rose's efficiency and numbers are far better individually. Like, he is playing better then Rondo the past few months.

Hawkeye15
03-22-2010, 05:27 PM
The whole thing is though is that Rose is suppose to be better then Rondo. The guy was the 1st overall pick in the draft. Rondo was drafted by Phoenix and tossed over to Boston. As far as I'm concerned Rose is underachieving.

do we all want to revisit Rondo's second season individually?

bostonrules37
03-22-2010, 05:29 PM
wow ! are talking about who scores the most points or if rondo is elite . He is elite , the guy is avg 13.9 ppg , 9.7 apg , 2.4 spg ( leads league ) and 4.4 rpg and he shoots 51 % from the feild thats a point guard ! he makes people around him better , without rondo the cs wouldnt be as good as they r, he is the falicitater of that team . just watch some celtics games and you could answer this ques yourselves . :clap: :p

Hawkeye15
03-22-2010, 05:35 PM
wow ! are talking about who scores the most points or if rondo is elite . He is elite , the guy is avg 13.9 ppg , 9.7 apg , 2.4 spg ( leads league ) and 4.4 rpg and he shoots 51 % from the feild thats a point guard ! he makes people around him better , without rondo the cs wouldnt be as good as they r, he is the falicitater of that team . just watch some celtics games and you could answer this ques yourselves . :clap: :p

nobody is saying he is no good, quite the contrary. Rondo's FG$ is misleading since he shoots half his shots inside, which is extremely high for a PG. His true shooting % when this is factored in is no good. But, kudos to him for recognizing he is a terrible shooter, and he better get to the rim
And of course the C's would not win nearly as many games if you removed him.
And leading the league in steals has ALWAYS been an indication of a player who gambles a lot.
I think many here are just sold on the player they like. Both are good in different ways. Rose obviously shows far more potential, and is well ahead of the curve Rondo endured in his career.

bbd24
03-22-2010, 05:47 PM
nobody is saying he is no good, quite the contrary. Rondo's FG$ is misleading since he shoots half his shots inside, which is extremely high for a PG. His true shooting % when this is factored in is no good. But, kudos to him for recognizing he is a terrible shooter, and he better get to the rim
And of course the C's would not win nearly as many games if you removed him.
And leading the league in steals has ALWAYS been an indication of a player who gambles a lot.
I think many here are just sold on the player they like. Both are good in different ways. Rose obviously shows far more potential, and is well ahead of the curve Rondo endured in his career.

Whats so misleading about it ? Its more like, fans of opposing teams are mislead because they can't figure out that nobody can stay in front of Rondo because he's that damn quick. Thus, his quickness allows him to penetrate and shoot layups. He doesn't have to shoot outside when your as quick as him and have handles like the plastic man.

Is it his fault he can dribble like no other ? He's elite and then some. How old is he ? Still like 24, 25 ?

We always forget to talk about assist to turnover ratio. Its important, damn important. This guy gets assists night in and night out and also takes care of the ball. As a point guard.

Straight. Nasty. Ball playa.

Corey
03-22-2010, 05:49 PM
#'s don't mean ****.

Solid statement.

Corey
03-22-2010, 05:51 PM
no, cause Rose's efficiency and numbers are far better individually. Like, he is playing better then Rondo the past few months.

Maybe you used the wrong term. If we're going by efficiency, Rondo is much better.

Hawkeye15
03-22-2010, 05:54 PM
Maybe you used the wrong term. If we're going by efficiency, Rondo is much better.

for the season, yep. For the last few months, nope. Rose started slowly due to injury, and working his way back in. But he has been great, INDIVIDUALLY, over the past 13 weeks. Better than Rondo

Pierzynski4Prez
03-22-2010, 05:55 PM
Solid statement.

Chris Duhon actually gets more assists than Rose, Billups, Evans, and has a better Assist/TO ratio than anyone not named or Kidd or Paul. So is Duhon one of the best PG's in the league? After all, stats mean everything I guess.

bostonrules37
03-22-2010, 05:55 PM
Whats so misleading about it ? Its more like, fans of opposing teams are mislead because they can't figure out that nobody can stay in front of Rondo because he's that damn quick. Thus, his quickness allows him to penetrate and shoot layups. He doesn't have to shoot outside when your as quick as him and have handles like the plastic man.

Is it his fault he can dribble like no other ? He's elite and then some. How old is he ? Still like 24, 25 ?

We always forget to talk about assist to turnover ratio. Its important, damn important. This guy gets assists night in and night out and also takes care of the ball. As a point guard.

Straight. Nasty. Ball playa.

exactly ! he doesnt gamble much at all he has some of the quickest hands in the league if u ( hawkeye15 ) watched the mavs game u would have seen that when he pick kidd and terry they couldnt react to his speed thats why he leads the league in steals. He doesnt shoot from outside because he doesnt have to , when you can get by anyone there is no need to shoot jumpers .:clap:

Pierzynski4Prez
03-22-2010, 05:57 PM
Solid statement.

Corey Maggette averages more points with a higher fg% than Billups, Gay, Boozer, Duncan, G. Wallace, D. Williams, I could go on and on.

But yet again, numbers mean everything.

bbd24
03-22-2010, 05:57 PM
You ever watch teams sag on Rondo because they think he can't shoot ? Guess what, he's still blowing by you even if you sag, and he's either dropping in layups or he'll dish to the open man when you collapse. Take your pick. Theres a reason he lead the league as a guard in FG percentage last year, and is up there once again this year. With or without a jumpshot, he can score. His quickness allows him to.

He fills up the stat sheet and gets other players open looks. As a PG. He's Elite and is one of, if not the best, PG in the league. Just think, he's only got a couple years under his belt. Still has room to improve an already straight nasty game. He's unlike any PG in the NBA. Nobody can dime like him, and nobody has those types of handles.