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View Full Version : Raps out of playoffs=Bosh gone for sure?



shep33
03-16-2010, 07:25 PM
He's actually been going around for the most part of the year talking about how he likes Toronto, and even BC (GM), didn't look to trade him at all.

But now, wow they're struggling, and Bosh is getting vocal. Somehow the Bulls are still in the hunt, and if they get healthy quck they can overtake the Raps. Chicago is only a game back and they've been terrible.

If the Raps were playing terribe like this right before the break, i think they trade him, but really they couldn't cause they were red hot, but the tides have definitely turned for the worse.

Is it safe to say now that CB4 is done in Toronto?

I'd like him to stay but man, just seems like its not gonna work out for sure now... what do you guys think?

FlakeyFool
03-16-2010, 07:26 PM
no

next.

JWO35
03-16-2010, 07:28 PM
Raptors make Playoffs = Chris Bosh gone

ChiSox219
03-16-2010, 07:31 PM
He's actually been going around for the most part of the year talking about how he likes Toronto, and even BC (GM), didn't look to trade him at all.

But now, wow they're struggling, and Bosh is getting vocal. Somehow the Bulls are still in the hunt, and if they get healthy quck they can overtake the Raps. Chicago is only a game back and they've been terrible.

Is it safe to say now that CB4 is done in Toronto?

I'd like him to stay but man, just seems like its not gonna work out for sure now... what do you guys think?

No one knows, but logically, unless he really likes the city and organization there's not much of a reason to stay. The Raptors cap space is locked up for a couple years and if they make the playoffs they don't have a 1st round pick. There's some nice young talent on Toronto, I really like Weems, Derozan, and Amir but I don't know that any of them will be legitimate #2 options. Bargnani and Bosh is a tough defensive pairing to overcome and Calderon only makes matters worse.

He says all the right things so maybe he'll stay or maybe he's just avoiding the heat/criticism he would get if he said he was considering leaving town.

shep33
03-16-2010, 07:33 PM
no

next.

Really you don't think he leaves, if they dont' make it, I'd like him to stay but man, like the person below said, there was a chance that he'd leave even if they made the playoffs, but if they don't make it, i really don't see him coming back at all. What type of future will they have? Derozan is great, but still needs another year or two to get there, I bet Bosh is looking at teams like Miami, who are likely gonna make the playoffs, and really only have Wade as an above average player. So basically going to a team like Miami would mean lots of touches and a consistent presence in the playoffs.

SteveNash
03-16-2010, 07:35 PM
Bosh is gone no matter what. Whether they make the playoffs as a low seed or not, Toronto has a crap team with not much of a future.

shep33
03-16-2010, 07:36 PM
No one knows, but logically, unless he really likes the city and organization there's not much of a reason to stay. The Raptors cap space is locked up for a couple years and if they make the playoffs they don't have a 1st round pick. There's some nice young talent on Toronto, I really like Weems, Derozan, and Amir but I don't know that any of them will be legitimate #2 options. Bargnani and Bosh is a tough defensive pairing to overcome and Calderon only makes matters worse.

He says all the right things so maybe he'll stay or maybe he's just avoiding the heat/criticism he would get if he said he was considering leaving town.

Yeah, I agree. The Raps looked like they were moving ahead at the allstar break, really catching fire, but now they're in 8th and could very easily miss the playoffs. If he goes to a team like Miami or Chicago, they could easily move into the top 3-4 in the East with Boston sliding now.

TheKing23
03-16-2010, 07:37 PM
Raptors still in Toronto next season = Bosh gone

dtmagnet
03-16-2010, 07:40 PM
I don't think its that simple but it would certainly be a factor.

SwaggaIke
03-16-2010, 07:41 PM
I don't see Bosh staying regardless. Like someone mentioned earlier, they don't really have that high of a ceiling regardless. Their cap space is locked up for the next few years and Derozan is the only wild card chip in play. A move to Miami or Chicago is imminent IMO. And whether he knows it or not he's a second tier star ala Pau Gasol.

Bishnoff
03-16-2010, 07:49 PM
I can't see him staying.

BALLER71
03-16-2010, 07:55 PM
He's coming to the Heat.

JDMac80
03-16-2010, 07:56 PM
anything happens = bosh gone for sure

GoatMilk
03-16-2010, 07:59 PM
S&T with Portland for LaMarcus
why not?

SA5195
03-16-2010, 08:03 PM
Not making the playoffs would be a factor.

But Bosh himself doesn't know if he'll leave or stay, so how can these ^ people.

ink
03-16-2010, 08:08 PM
Not making the playoffs would be a factor.

But Bosh himself doesn't know if he'll leave or stay, so how can these ^ people.

Because the media say so and the media always tell it exactly like it is. :laugh: Right?

The_905
03-16-2010, 08:10 PM
S&T with Portland for LaMarcus
why not?

Um, because BC is not a re ****?

aerion123
03-16-2010, 08:11 PM
Something is telling me that Bynum for Bosh will be revisted. I think he would like to play in LA. I think that would be the best deal Toronto could get. Besides Al Jefferson but I'll take Bynum.

ink
03-16-2010, 08:11 PM
Something tells me this thread won't last long. We've had enough of these, so if this thread even starts to go off the rails, it will be closed.

NYtilIdie
03-16-2010, 08:27 PM
It pretty much guarantees him leaving if they miss the playoffs.

IAmKira
03-16-2010, 08:54 PM
wat a knuckle head move to sign Hedo.. Imagine them signing sum1 for 1 year and they could've gotten cap space for 2 beast players?

ink
03-16-2010, 09:01 PM
wat a knuckle head move to sign Hedo.. Imagine them signing sum1 for 1 year and they could've gotten cap space for 2 beast players?

1. Bosh signed off completely on the deal to acquire Hedo
2. Who were they going to sign for one year?
3. They needed someone THIS YEAR because Bosh wanted reassurance that the Raptors were working hard to build the franchise
4. If Bosh re-signs, he does it knowing the reality that it's his team and it will also take longer than this year to build that team.

shep33
03-16-2010, 09:06 PM
I think missing the playoffs is a huge factor in all honesty. Did they even make it last year? 2 years in a row not making the playoffs in the east is not good.

wileyisTOFU
03-16-2010, 09:17 PM
1. Bosh signed off completely on the deal to acquire Hedo
2. Who were they going to sign for one year?
3. They needed someone THIS YEAR because Bosh wanted reassurance that the Raptors were working hard to build the franchise
4. If Bosh re-signs, he does it knowing the reality that it's his team and it will also take longer than this year to build that team.

Well you need to be angrier at BC since he bascially screwed yall with that contract for the next few years

bigsams50
03-16-2010, 09:18 PM
If the Raps miss the playoffs, i think CB4 is gone. I dont see the Raps missing the playoffs though.

Sixerlover
03-16-2010, 09:26 PM
It's all speculation, but I believe that Bosh not making the post season this year almost seals the deal.

ldc62
03-16-2010, 09:39 PM
Bosh is gone no matter what. Whether they make the playoffs as a low seed or not, Toronto has a crap team with not much of a future.

Do you really wanna discuss the future? I see Kerr in Phoenix for many years to come.

I still think Bosh will leave.

jmtapia
03-16-2010, 09:52 PM
Bosh will leave regardless. My best bet is he ends up in Chicago to team up with Rose or in Miami to team up with Wade.

GodsSon
03-16-2010, 10:01 PM
People are saying Bosh is gone as though it's already fact, here's some facts for you...

1. Bosh can't say the FO has not attempted to please him and surround him with talent since Bargs, Hedo (whom he called and enticed to play here), Jack (his good friend from GA Tech) and Calderon make for a talented top 5 roster on PAPER.

2. Bosh is the cornerstone and leader of this franchise, so if the team is doing poorly, he needs to step up his leadership and hold himself and his teammates accountable.

3. Bosh has said he does not want to play second fiddle to a LeBron/Wade and feels he is someone you can build around and is worth max money (which is what he ALREADY has in TO)

4. MLSE is a multi-billion dollar corporation that has repeatedly said they will give BC the green light to go over the luxury-tax threshold to build a contender...something many people in TO believe they will do if Bosh re-ups

5. If we retain our FA's we get use of the MLE which can net us a solid piece given the current economic climate and upcoming CBA...couple that with the expiring contracts of Banks/Evans/Weems and that gives us roughly 11 million to use on a team looking for cap relief (Philly, GS); so yes, we DO have assets at our disposal

How's that for facts? :)

jackdawson
03-16-2010, 10:05 PM
Not making the playoffs would be a factor.

But Bosh himself doesn't know if he'll leave or stay:facepalm:, so how can these ^ people.

How can you know that bold part then?:facepalm:

SA5195
03-16-2010, 10:05 PM
People are saying Bosh is gone as though it's already fact, here's some facts for you...

1. Bosh can't say the FO has not attempted to please him and surround him with talent since Bargs, Hedo (whom he called and enticed to play here), Jack (his good friend from GA Tech) and Calderon make for a talented top 5 roster on PAPER.

2. Bosh is the cornerstone and leader of this franchise, so if the team is not doing poorly, he needs to step up his leadership and hold himself and his teammates accountable.

3. Bosh has said he does not want to play second fiddle to a LeBron/Wade and feels he is someone you can build around and is worth max money (which is what he ALREADY has in TO)

4. MLSE is a multi-billion dollar corporation that has repeatedly said they will give BC the green light to go over the luxury-tax threshold to build a contender...something many people in TO believe they will do if Bosh re-ups

5. If we retain our FA's we get use of the MLE which can net us a solid piece given the current economic climate and upcoming CBA...couple that with the expiring contracts of Banks/Evans/Weems and that gives us roughly 11 million to use on a team looking for cap relief (Philly, GS); so yes, we DO have assets at our disposal

How's that for facts? :)

No one cares about all those, except for us raps fans.

They still think Bosh is gonna go cause he's playing in a unknown place called "canada" lol

Big Quett
03-16-2010, 10:08 PM
1. Bosh signed off completely on the deal to acquire Hedo
2. Who were they going to sign for one year?
3. They needed someone THIS YEAR because Bosh wanted reassurance that the Raptors were working hard to build the franchise
4. If Bosh re-signs, he does it knowing the reality that it's his team and it will also take longer than this year to build that team.

He will be in his 7th year. Why would he want to rebuild again? I thought they have been rebuilding around him since they traded VC? He gave Toronto 6 years to get it done. They blew it.

i mean the Heat, Cavs and Nuggs built title contenders in those years. And how is Toronto going to build now? Their team with or without CB4 is pretty much set.

RaptorizedKevin
03-16-2010, 10:11 PM
Raptors still in Toronto next season = Bosh gone

Where do you get this info from? clearly you dont know anything . Bosh LOVES TORONTO. you should really do your reserch before assuming this. REP T-DOT TILL THEY BURRY ME

RaptorizedKevin
03-16-2010, 10:14 PM
No one cares about all those, except for us raps fans.

They still think Bosh is gonna go cause he's playing in a unknown place called "canada" lol

exactly . people think bosh will leave toronto if the raptors are sitll in toronto. peopel are fried. they dont know ****, but talking so much .

people barely know bosh except for people from toronto. so i really dont know why people are making assumption that bosh is going to their teams.

SA5195
03-16-2010, 10:14 PM
How can you know that bold part then?:facepalm:

He said it himself, that's how I know.

Big Quett
03-16-2010, 10:16 PM
He said it himself, that's how I know.

DUDE is your sig real?......That is amazing.

RaptorizedKevin
03-16-2010, 10:16 PM
close this please ink.

GodsSon
03-16-2010, 10:17 PM
He will be in his 7th year. Why would he want to rebuild again? I thought they have been rebuilding around him since they traded VC? He gave Toronto 6 years to get it done. They blew it.

i mean the Heat, Cavs and Nuggs built title contenders in those years. And how is Toronto going to build now? Their team with or without CB4 is pretty much set.

What if Heisley decides to not give the money Rudy Gay wants and BC steps up and offers a S&T for cap-relief and a 1st? Knowing how notoriously cheap they've been in recent years, Wallace and Heisley would probably be all over it like a fat kid on cake; which isn't a stretch for either of them lol

SA5195
03-16-2010, 10:19 PM
DUDE is your sig real?......That is amazing.

Ya, he did it in the Dunk Contest...but he missed the dunk lol, still looks pretty sick right?

ink
03-16-2010, 10:19 PM
He will be in his 7th year. Why would he want to rebuild again? I thought they have been rebuilding around him since they traded VC? He gave Toronto 6 years to get it done.

Incorrect. And over-simplified. Bosh knows that they have really only had since 2006-07 when Colangelo replaced the GM (Babcock) who dug them so far into the hole. He would also know that before that, the previous GMs moves (Knicks fans will know all about Grunwald, assistant to Isiah in his disastrous tenure) also set up the Babcock catastrophe. In Colangelo's first two years, the team made the playoffs, so the signs were good. They have had two seasons of actually trying too hard to please Bosh with moves that have mostly backfired. But Bosh participated fully in approving the moves the Raptors made, so it's not like he foresaw the problems either. So, in other words, I could easily see him staying. If he leaves, it's also not the end of the world. Players come and go.

Big Quett
03-16-2010, 10:20 PM
What if Heisley decides to not give the money Rudy Gay wants and BC steps up and offers a S&T for cap-relief and a 1st? Knowing how notoriously cheap they've been in recent years, Wallace and Heisley would probably be all over it like a fat kid on cake; which isn't a stretch for either of them lol

Agreed...lol..

Ok and what would TO offer?....The salary you give up would have to match. And TO has nothing anybody wants outside of Bosh.

ink
03-16-2010, 10:22 PM
What if Heisley decides to not give the money Rudy Gay wants and BC steps up and offers a S&T for cap-relief and a 1st? Knowing how notoriously cheap they've been in recent years, Wallace and Heisley would probably be all over it like a fat kid on cake; which isn't a stretch for either of them lol

If there's a bad decision available that saves money, Michael Heisley is your man. I mean, he left a much higher attendance average in Vancouver to take a "sweet" deal from FedEx when he moved the team to Memphis. That really worked out too. lol. Good team, wrong market.

papoose123
03-16-2010, 10:24 PM
Bosh is gone no matter what. Whether they make the playoffs as a low seed or not, Toronto has a crap team with not much of a future.

:facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm: :facepalm::facepalm:

GodsSon
03-16-2010, 10:24 PM
Agreed...lol..

Ok and what would TO offer?....The salary you give up would have to match. And TO has nothing anybody wants outside of Bosh.

Cap-relief my friend...cap-relief...and a draft pick or two

papoose123
03-16-2010, 10:26 PM
im so sick of bosh, lebron, wade threads! cant we just wait till the end of the season to speculate lol

Big Quett
03-16-2010, 10:26 PM
Incorrect. And over-simplified. Bosh knows that they have really only had since 2006-07 when Colangelo replaced the GM (Babcock) who dug them so far into the hole. He would also know that before that, the previous GMs moves (Knicks fans will know all about Grunwald, assistant to Isiah in his disastrous tenure) also set up the Babcock catastrophe. In Colangelo's first two years, the team made the playoffs, so the signs were good. They have had two seasons of actually trying too hard to please Bosh with moves that have mostly backfired. But Bosh participated fully in approving the moves the Raptors made, so it's not like he foresaw the problems either. So, in other words, I could easily see him staying. If he leaves, it's also not the end of the world. Players come and go.

Ok just because he signed off on the moves doesnt mean he would have to stay. The point is he will be entering his what? 7th year. Probably the prime of his career and he going to be willing to wait 1 or 2 more years just to be a middle of the road playoff team?

The_905
03-16-2010, 10:26 PM
Agreed...lol..

Ok and what would TO offer?....The salary you give up would have to match. And TO has nothing anybody wants outside of Bosh.

Um, can even you name anyone else on the roster besides bosh?

Calderon, Bargnani and Derozan all have value. You're being extremely naive, just because you don't see it doesn't mean GM's don't.

GodsSon
03-16-2010, 10:28 PM
If there's a bad decision available that saves money, Michael Heisley is your man. I mean, he left a much higher attendance average in Vancouver to take a "sweet" deal from FedEx when he moved the team to Memphis. That really worked out too. lol. Good team, wrong market.

He already wanted out from the Grizz a few years back when he wanted to sell them off to Laettner and his group....and whenever a 3-4 team deal goes down, they always seem to be the team willing to facilitate it by shedding cap any way they can lol

Big Quett
03-16-2010, 10:29 PM
Cap-relief my friend...cap-relief...and a draft pick or two

We are under the cap already. and have three 1st round picks. No thank you

ink
03-16-2010, 10:29 PM
Ok just because he signed off on the moves doesnt mean he would have to stay. The point is he will be entering his what? 7th year. Probably the prime of his career and he going to be willing to wait 1 or 2 more years just to be a middle of the road playoff team?

You can hang on to the 7 year thing but I'm sure that Bosh is counting from the time BC started.

GodsSon
03-16-2010, 10:32 PM
We are under the cap already. and have three 1st round picks. No thank you

Don't get me wrong, you guys have a nice core, but I think the decision with Gay this summer will really determine which direction you continue in...I can really see Heisley deciding to reduce team payroll and accept expirings over talent for Gay

astrosmaniac
03-16-2010, 10:32 PM
People are saying Bosh is gone as though it's already fact, here's some facts for you...

1. Bosh can't say the FO has not attempted to please him and surround him with talent since Bargs, Hedo (whom he called and enticed to play here), Jack (his good friend from GA Tech) and Calderon make for a talented top 5 roster on PAPER.

2. Bosh is the cornerstone and leader of this franchise, so if the team is doing poorly, he needs to step up his leadership and hold himself and his teammates accountable.

3. Bosh has said he does not want to play second fiddle to a LeBron/Wade and feels he is someone you can build around and is worth max money (which is what he ALREADY has in TO)

4. MLSE is a multi-billion dollar corporation that has repeatedly said they will give BC the green light to go over the luxury-tax threshold to build a contender...something many people in TO believe they will do if Bosh re-ups

5. If we retain our FA's we get use of the MLE which can net us a solid piece given the current economic climate and upcoming CBA...couple that with the expiring contracts of Banks/Evans/Weems and that gives us roughly 11 million to use on a team looking for cap relief (Philly, GS); so yes, we DO have assets at our disposal

How's that for facts? :)
1. they can try all the want, but if they cant produce results and bosh wants to win, then it makes sense that bosh would leave

2. hes already called out his teammates in a recent article. hes putting up like 24/22/1.5. he can't do everything himself.

3. bosh can be the go to guy with max money in NY, NJ, LAC, pretty much anywhere with max cap space besides miami (i would even say hed be the go to guy over rose in CHI). or he can get max in a S&T and demand to go wherever he wants (including a place with no go to guy if he wants).

4. several other teams have that same go ahead (rockets, lakers, etc)

5. as does every other team over the salary cap. you think TO is the only team with expiring contracts next year? every team has that and many teams have talented young players that teams would want to build around for their future

Big Quett
03-16-2010, 10:32 PM
You can hang on to the 7 year thing but I'm sure that Bosh is counting from the time BC started.

No he is counting on his own time. Well ok can i ask you a question? Where you happy about giving Turk a 5 year 60 mil deal?

JJ_JKidd
03-16-2010, 10:33 PM
The season's not yet over there are still some games remaining. Who knows the Raps might put up some sick win streak.

Big Quett
03-16-2010, 10:35 PM
Don't get me wrong, you guys have a nice core, but I think the decision with Gay this summer will really determine which direction you continue in...I can really see Heisley deciding to reduce team payroll and accept expirings over talent for Gay

He doesnt even make 4 mil. And he is a RFA. What are you talking about with expirings? What would be the point of a sign n trade and excepting large salaries when you can just let him go?

ink
03-16-2010, 10:36 PM
No he is counting on his own time. Well ok can i ask you a question? Where you happy about giving Turk a 5 year 60 mil deal?

How do you know how he's counting? Do you see him in interviews daily like we do? lol.

Doesn't really matter whether I was happy or not. I'd like to see Hedo earn him money, I'll say that much. But I think this is on the player, not the GM.

ink
03-16-2010, 10:36 PM
The season's not yet over there are still some games remaining. Who knows the Raps might put up some sick win streak.

Exactly. This whole thread is an experience in bandwagon jumping.

astrosmaniac
03-16-2010, 10:37 PM
Cap-relief my friend...cap-relief...and a draft pick or two

and every team can offer that. some might be willing to offer actual talent

GodsSon
03-16-2010, 10:38 PM
1. they can try all the want, but if they cant produce results and bosh wants to win, then it makes sense that bosh would leave

2. hes already called out his teammates in a recent article. hes putting up like 24/22/1.5. he can't do everything himself.

3. bosh can be the go to guy with max money in NY, NJ, LAC, pretty much anywhere with max cap space besides miami (i would even say hed be the go to guy over rose in CHI). or he can get max in a S&T and demand to go wherever he wants (including a place with no go to guy if he wants).

4. several other teams have that same go ahead (rockets, lakers, etc)

5. as does every other team over the salary cap. you think TO is the only team with expiring contracts next year? every team has that and many teams have talented young players that teams would want to build around for their future

To keep it short and sweet, BC is a very active GM and there are always rumours swirling around of him trying to bolster the roster...if Bosh re-ups, I expect to see more talent added onto the roster; and if he decides to leave, it will be via the S&T in which it's a win-win for both parties

Raph12
03-16-2010, 10:39 PM
Doubt Chitown ousts TO for the final spot, but I think Bosh joins Wade in Miami and Stat joins Lebron in NYC.

Sorry Raps fans, but another 1st round exit would do any Top 10-15 player in.

Big Quett
03-16-2010, 10:39 PM
How do you know how he's counting? Do you see him in interviews daily like we do? lol.

Doesn't really matter whether I was happy or not. I'd like to see Hedo earn him money, I'll say that much. But I think this is on the player, not the GM.

....

GodsSon
03-16-2010, 10:40 PM
He doesnt even make 4 mil. And he is a RFA. What are you talking about with expirings? What would be the point of a sign n trade and excepting large salaries when you can just let him go?

Because letting go of 4 mil is very different than resigning him for say 12 mil per, and trading him away for expirings that equal 12 mil...plus you potentially get back some talent and picks, OR, getting back a TPE

Big Quett
03-16-2010, 10:43 PM
Because letting go of 4 mil is very different than resigning him for say 12 mil per, and trading him away for expirings that equal 12 mil

WHAT? We are not over the salary cap. So it would just be adding useless money and more players than we have roster spots.

The_905
03-16-2010, 10:44 PM
He will be in his 7th year. Why would he want to rebuild again? I thought they have been rebuilding around him since they traded VC? He gave Toronto 6 years to get it done. They blew it.

i mean the Heat, Cavs and Nuggs built title contenders in those years. And how is Toronto going to build now? Their team with or without CB4 is pretty much set.

1. So your saying that a rookie Bosh should have taken the raps to the playoffs? A second year Bosh too? Come on man, be real about it. Raps were nothing until BC came in. Since BC the raps have made the playoffs 2 of the past 3 seasons, and potentially 3 out of 4.

They blew it? Are you for real? Far from it.

2.As for the Heat, Cavs and Nuggets building contenders in those years thats a moot point. D wade, Lebron and Carmelo are head and shoulders above Bosh. D wade had Shaq in his rookie season and they fluked a championship, since then nothing has really happened in MIA, they have even had a 15 win season. Lebron is Lebron, single handedly wins games for the Cavs, Bosh just isn't good enough to do that. And as for Carmelo he has one hell of a team around him because of a really good GM, that Toronto lacked until 3 seasons ago.

People have to stop comparing Bosh to DWade, Lebron and Melo. Those three players are on another level and it's obvious because if Bosh was on their level he would win games on his own, which he has never done when it matters in TO. Bosh is extremely overrated imo, he is now telling the TO media that he can't do anymore to help this team win and it's up to everyone else. This is not the attitude of a winner, and that's why he will never win a championship if he is Batman on team. You have to have the mindset that you can always do more for your team like Kobe has and MJ had.

astrosmaniac
03-16-2010, 10:46 PM
To keep it short and sweet, BC is a very active GM and there are always rumours swirling around of him trying to bolster the roster...if Bosh re-ups, I expect to see more talent added onto the roster; and if he decides to leave, it will be via the S&T in which it's a win-win for both parties

well BC has tried to bolster the roster (hedo for 5 years, 60 mil), but like i pointed out, trying doesn't equate to getting it right. im just playing devil's advocate. and like its been said before, its not like this team doesnt have the talent, it just doesnt equate into wins.

GodsSon
03-16-2010, 10:47 PM
WHAT? We are not over the salary cap. So it would just be adding useless money and more players than we have roster spots.

I'm just saying your owner is known for being cheap, and I could see him taking that route than paying up for Gay

GodsSon
03-16-2010, 10:50 PM
well BC has tried to bolster the roster (hedo for 5 years, 60 mil), but like i pointed out, trying doesn't equate to getting it right. im just playing devil's advocate. and like its been said before, its not like this team doesnt have the talent, it just doesnt equate into wins.

Fair enough, but let's be honest here...Did anybody in TO or Bosh himself expect the Raps to completely turn it around in 3 years? look at the Nuggets, they were perennial first round exits until Billups arrival last year...all it takes is one key piece to fall into place and it's gravy...

ManRam
03-16-2010, 10:50 PM
I'm not going to sift through all these posts...I can pretty much guess what they say.

IMHO, if they miss the playoffs, he is 100% gone. They wont have any cap space to play around with for a while. It's just going to be more and more waiting. He's gotta get out while he's in his prime. I think it kind of is a shame, but that team isn't close to contending at all, and wont be for a while, especially with most of their core players locked up.

astrosmaniac
03-16-2010, 10:51 PM
I'm just saying your owner is known for being cheap, and I could see him taking that route than paying up for Gay

if he was cheap, he'd just let gay walk away...

Big Quett
03-16-2010, 10:52 PM
I'm just saying your owner is known for being cheap, and I could see him taking that route than paying up for Gay

dude what your saying doesnt make sense. If he wanted to save money he would just let him walk. if your going to take 12 mil in salaries you might as well just keep Rudy. It doesnt save money if you take salary you dont have to.

astrosmaniac
03-16-2010, 10:54 PM
Fair enough, but let's be honest here...Did anybody in TO or Bosh himself expect the Raps to completely turn it around in 3 years? look at the Nuggets, they were perennial first round exits until Billups arrival last year...all it takes is one key piece to fall into place and it's gravy...

3 years for an NBA SHOULD be enough time to turn it around. this isnt baseball where you have to get a whole team of 15+ players to be competitive. you need maybe 7-8 core guys to contend in basketball. 3 years should be enough time (especially if you have your go to guy already in bosh)

GodsSon
03-16-2010, 11:00 PM
dude what your saying doesnt make sense. If he wanted to save money he would just let him walk. if your going to take 12 mil in salaries you might as well just keep Rudy. It doesnt save money if you take salary you dont have to.

Correct me if I'm wrong (which I might just be lol)...but if you let him walk at say 4 mil per year, you really gain nothing from it since an increase in other players salaries will offset the vacant 4 mil...however, if you take back expirings worth 12 mil for a year, let them all walk at season's end/buy them out, it saves you money at the end of next season...

GodsSon
03-16-2010, 11:04 PM
3 years for an NBA SHOULD be enough time to turn it around. this isnt baseball where you have to get a whole team of 15+ players to be competitive. you need maybe 7-8 core guys to contend in basketball. 3 years should be enough time (especially if you have your go to guy already in bosh)

Like I said, every team needs that key piece and there's no better example than Melo with Billups...TO hasn't found theirs YET, but hopefully for us TO fans, Bosh gives us some more time to try and find it...keep in mind, even if he re-ups for 6 years, he doesn't necessarily have to be around that entire time; if things aren't working out by year 3 (or by the time he's 29) I'm sure barring any serious injuries there will still be a large trade market out there for him

Big Quett
03-16-2010, 11:04 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong (which I might just be lol)...but if you let him walk at say 4 mil per year, you really gain nothing from it since an increase in other players salaries will offset the vacant 4 mil...however, if you take back expirings worth 12 mil for a year, let them all walk at season's end/buy them out, it saves you money at the end of next season...

The increase of players salaries wont be 12 mil.If you let him go there is no gain or lose. If you do a sign n trade you have to take on 12 mil in salary that you dont have to. And taking on 12 mil in salary would put us over the salary cap. And might put us in the luxury tax. When if you just let him walk woundlnt be the case. if that is the case you might as well just keep Rudy.

ink
03-16-2010, 11:04 PM
3 years for an NBA SHOULD be enough time to turn it around. this isnt baseball where you have to get a whole team of 15+ players to be competitive. you need maybe 7-8 core guys to contend in basketball. 3 years should be enough time (especially if you have your go to guy already in bosh)

Really?

It took:

Atlanta - 10 yrs
Boston - 19 yrs
Cleveland - 12 yrs

While they were trying to become contenders they did no better than the Colangelo Raptors have done. It took a hell of a lot longer than three years for each of them. And that's only the first few letters in the alphabet. lol.

ink
03-16-2010, 11:06 PM
Like I said, every team needs that key piece and there's no better example than Melo with Billups...TO hasn't found theirs YET, but hopefully for us TO fans, Bosh gives us some more time to try and find it...keep in mind, even if he re-ups for 6 years, he doesn't necessarily have to be around that entire time; if things aren't working out by year 3 (or by the time he's 29) I'm sure barring any serious injuries there will still be a large trade market out there for him

That's actually the major dilemma right now. Bosh may not be that key piece and yet we may pay him max money. There are some that say we'd be better off losing him.

GodsSon
03-16-2010, 11:08 PM
The increase of players salaries wont be 12 mil.If you let him go there is no gain or lose. If you do a sign n trade you have to take on 12 mil in salary that you dont have to. And taking on 12 mil in salary would put us over the salary cap. And might put us in the luxury tax. When if you just let him walk woundlnt be the case. if that is the case you might as well just keep Rudy.

Yes, but you would be keeping him for probably 4+ years at 12 mil per (to keep the example consistent), whereas, you would get back expirings, possibly some talent and picks via a S&T for an owner that might not want to be on the hook for multiple years with his deal...I'm just saying it's a possibility

GodsSon
03-16-2010, 11:11 PM
That's actually the major dilemma right now. Bosh may not be that key piece and yet we may pay him max money. There are some that say we'd be better off losing him.

I think Bosh is the key piece, but he's not the kind of player who can do it on his own...he's a Robin not a Batman, however the 04 Pistons proved you can win with no Batman and a few Robins...a stud 2 guard who can penetrate and defend would do wonders for this team and Bosh

ink
03-16-2010, 11:12 PM
I think Bosh is the key piece, but he's not the kind of player who can do it on his own...he's a Robin not a Batman, however the 04 Pistons proved you can win with no Batman and a few Robins...a stud 2 guard who can penetrate and defend would do wonders for this team and Bosh

Yup.

Big Quett
03-16-2010, 11:13 PM
Yes, but you would be keeping him for probably 4+ years at 12 mil per (to keep the example consistent), whereas, you would get back expirings, possibly some talent and picks via a S&T for an owner that might not want to be on the hook for multiple years with his deal...I'm just saying it's a possibility

Dude you are not making since you keep saying expirings. The point of getting expirings is to shed salary. We are not over the cap. So what would be the point of signing a player and trading him for expirings when you can just save money all together but just not signing him?

Ironman5219
03-16-2010, 11:14 PM
Send him to Utah! Jazz would welcome him with open arms!

pebloemer
03-16-2010, 11:14 PM
I would say if the team misses the playoffs then he will almost definitely bolt.

There is still season to go and a playoffs to play though. This team was looking excellent just a month ago.

Bosh is a competitive spirit and the guy wants to win. I have always felt that if Bosh feels he can't do that in Toronto he will bolt. If he feels he can do it in Toronto he'll stay. I'm sure he is very discouraged with the teams play of late, but it was just a month ago when he stated he hadn't been so optimistic/encouraged in a long time. We'll see how the rest of the season plays out.

astrosmaniac
03-16-2010, 11:19 PM
Really?

It took:

Atlanta - 10 yrs
Boston - 19 yrs
Cleveland - 12 yrs

While they were trying to become contenders they did no better than the Colangelo Raptors have done. It took a hell of a lot longer than three years for each of them. And that's only the first few letters in the alphabet. lol.

well it depends. did boston trade away their future to try and extend their dynasty? and in terms of cleveland and atlanta, i chalk that up to incompetent management by the GM and/or under performance by the coach and players

astrosmaniac
03-16-2010, 11:21 PM
I think Bosh is the key piece, but he's not the kind of player who can do it on his own...he's a Robin not a Batman, however the 04 Pistons proved you can win with no Batman and a few Robins...a stud 2 guard who can penetrate and defend would do wonders for this team and Bosh

the 04 pistons are the ONLY team to do it without a batman. and they had 3 or 4 robins. id say they are the exception, rather than the rule

ink
03-16-2010, 11:21 PM
well it depends. did boston trade away their future to try and extend their dynasty? and in terms of cleveland and atlanta, i chalk that up to incompetent management by the GM and/or under performance by the coach and players

Like I said that was only the first few letters in the alphabet. All of those reasons you gave for those teams' ineptitude are reasons that happen to all kinds of teams. It is NOT common to have three year turnarounds in the league. And the impatient fan is the fan that gets frustrated continuously.

astrosmaniac
03-16-2010, 11:24 PM
Like I said that was only the first few letters in the alphabet. All of those reasons you gave for those teams' ineptitude are reasons that happen to all kinds of teams. It is NOT common to have three year turnarounds in the league. And the impatient fan is the fan that gets frustrated continuously.

ive only been a basketball fan for around the last 10 years, but it seems to be the teams that take longer than 3-4 years to turn it around are the teams with inept management (see wolves, knicks, memphis for the majority of this decade)

BALLER R
03-16-2010, 11:28 PM
1. So your saying that a rookie Bosh should have taken the raps to the playoffs? A second year Bosh too? Come on man, be real about it. Raps were nothing until BC came in. Since BC the raps have made the playoffs 2 of the past 3 seasons, and potentially 3 out of 4.

They blew it? Are you for real? Far from it.

2.As for the Heat, Cavs and Nuggets building contenders in those years thats a moot point. D wade, Lebron and Carmelo are head and shoulders above Bosh. D wade had Shaq in his rookie season and they fluked a championship, since then nothing has really happened in MIA, they have even had a 15 win season. Lebron is Lebron, single handedly wins games for the Cavs, Bosh just isn't good enough to do that. And as for Carmelo he has one hell of a team around him because of a really good GM, that Toronto lacked until 3 seasons ago.

People have to stop comparing Bosh to DWade, Lebron and Melo. Those three players are on another level and it's obvious because if Bosh was on their level he would win games on his own, which he has never done when it matters in TO. Bosh is extremely overrated imo, he is now telling the TO media that he can't do anymore to help this team win and it's up to everyone else. This is not the attitude of a winner, and that's why he will never win a championship if he is Batman on team. You have to have the mindset that you can always do more for your team like Kobe has and MJ had.

and i think people forget hes a PF..name 5 Pf who single handledly wins games for their team and their team is in the playoffs..wade a SG n Lebron n Melo are SF..to win those are the positions that ur team can not lack weakness

ink
03-16-2010, 11:32 PM
ive only been a basketball fan for around the last 10 years, but it seems to be the teams that take longer than 3-4 years to turn it around are the teams with inept management (see wolves, knicks, memphis for the majority of this decade)

Every team has its struggles. Moving on to the next letters of the alphabet:

Dallas - 10 yrs
Denver - 14 yrs, only to be followed by 5 first round exits!! That's a total of 19 years.
Detroit - 10 yrs
GSW - from 1976-77 when they won a championship, they have had only 2 years better than the Raptors 2006-07 record, and minimal success
NYK - 10 yrs
Orlando - 11 yrs

Do I really need to go on?

Orange_Krush
03-16-2010, 11:36 PM
first of all i kinda thought he would be gone no matter what but he aint goin to miami i can tell you that!! you guys are all talking cap space this and that and these teams dont have room to give bosh a big time contract like hes gonna get here only ****** teams like the knicks and some other bottom feeders can afford him dont forget d wade isnt even signed yet and he cud be gone there gonna have to give beasly some big money and they a need a true point guard before they even think about bosh and trust me hell be gone much faster than miami has time to grab him wheteher he stays in t.o or not but you never know he cud stay and just cuz there lossing rite now dont mean shyt ya there only a game ahead but there also only a game behind fifth so theres lots of season to get hot and carry into the playoffs better to have the ruff spot rite now these teams like milwalke and charlotte will cool off some too but i still think toronto is the best place for bosh cause better teams wont be able to spen on him or have the luxary of time to wu him before someone else!!!

SteveNash
03-16-2010, 11:42 PM
the 04 pistons are the ONLY team to do it without a batman. and they had 3 or 4 robins. id say they are the exception, rather than the rule

This isn't even true. Pistons tend to be underrated because people tend to overrate offensive players. Rasheed was better than Bosh, Raptors aren't going anywhere so they might as well let Bosh walk and hope to get back a decent piece in a s&t.

nuggetsyankees
03-16-2010, 11:46 PM
one thing I know for sure is that he won't be going to play in his hometown Dallas :)

soonabooma
03-17-2010, 12:42 AM
I'm sure I'll get the usual "pipedream" speech for saying this, but that's okay, I can take it. Bosh belongs in OKC, and I'll tell you why. If what people say about him is true, and he really does think he's too good of a player to go be the #2 guy behind one of the other superstars in the league, then this is a perfect place for him. Now we all know that Kevin Durant is quickly becoming a true superstar and one of the elite players in the league, there's no denying that. But here's the thing. KD is young, and he's so humble, he has a team first attitude. He's not a selfish guy and he's not the kind of player that feels like he absolutely MUST have all the attention focused on himself, he doesn't go out of his way to draw attention to himself, he simply lets his play do the talking while approaching things with a "TEAM" mentality. He's the kind of player that would welcome a guy like Bosh in with open arms and look at the situation as "wow, we just added another brother that can help us in our quest for something special"......he's not the kind of guy that will look at it like "wow, we just got Bosh, my new #2." And we all know that's exactly the way a few other guys around the league would look at it. KD is our leader, and he's the right kind of leader. And on top of that, we've got a hell of a talented young group, it's not just KD, we've got a great group to build around and add pieces to. He would be a great addition and he'd be playing with guys that don't approach things with a "me first" attitude.

I guess I couldn't blame him if he went to Chicago becuz that's an attractive market and they have talent. But the truth is...we're even more built to contend soon than they are. I just wish we could at least make it a tough decision for him if we do look at persuading him to come here. We'd do some special things if we added that guy.

Meth
03-17-2010, 01:32 AM
I always thought that Bosh would leave immediately once Raptors lost to Golden State.

ink
03-17-2010, 01:42 AM
I always thought that Bosh would leave immediately once Raptors lost to Golden State.

Does that mean that Kobe should also have left after GSW almost beat the Lakers the next game?

shep33
03-17-2010, 01:58 AM
If he stays props to him for his patience, but in reality IMO i think he's gone even if they get the 8 spot, and likely get swept by the Cavs. I don't see the Raps competing with Atlanta, Cleveland, and Orlando, they're just no there yet and i don't think they will be anytime soon. Miami is better than the Raps, and they aren't very talented at all, if you add Bosh to the Heat for example (and i'm not a heat fan at all), with 1 or 2 solid role players, i think they can compete with that upper echelon in the East. Toronto is so inconsistent, and their D has sucked for a couple years now. It sucks, but i just don't understand why he'd stay at this point now.

Meth
03-17-2010, 02:02 AM
Does that mean that Kobe should also have left after GSW almost beat the Lakers the next game?

Almost beaten and beaten are different.

But anyways, Lakers are continuous playoff (championship) contenders, while Bosh and the Raptors are trying to reach the 8th playoff seed.
Bosh is also a FA, so he can choose a playoff/championship contending team, or he can choose to rebuild.

If you swap Kobe and Bosh around, then Bosh would most likely have stayed and Kobe would most likely look to move.

ko8e24
03-17-2010, 02:03 AM
No doubt if Raptors don't make playoffs, then Bosh is gone!

ink
03-17-2010, 02:13 AM
Almost beaten and beaten are different.

Thank you for the clarification on that one. :cool:


But anyways, Lakers are continuous playoff (championship) contenders, while Bosh and the Raptors are trying to reach the 8th playoff seed.

You're seriously not comparing an expansion team to one of the winningest franchises in history. Of course the Lakers are the better team. The point I made is that GSW are not the measuring stick to use since they almost beat the best team in the league.


Bosh is also a FA, so he can choose a playoff/championship contending team, or he can choose to rebuild.

That comment shows that you haven't really looked into the issue. There are lots of threads about this topic so it shouldn't be hard to find out.

ink
03-17-2010, 02:15 AM
No doubt if Raptors don't make playoffs, then Bosh is gone!

If the Raptors don't make the playoffs WITH Bosh, people are starting to ask whether he's the player the Raptors should be giving a max deal to. It works both ways right?

ko8e24
03-17-2010, 02:16 AM
If the Raptors don't make the playoffs WITH Bosh, people are starting to ask whether he's the player the Raptors should be giving a max deal to. It works both ways right?

Yes, actually, that's true, it does work both ways. I didn't realize that from a business standpoint.

ChiSox219
03-17-2010, 06:12 AM
Raptors fans are really grasping at straws here. At least in the beginning of the year there was some merit to their arguments, now it's just...


My question: does it really matter if the Raptors make or miss the playoffs? This season has proved they are not contenders now and they won't be next year. If Bosh re-signs for the maximum the Raptors won't see cap room until 2014 barring a significant jump in the cap. They could try to dump Calderon and Turkoglu but neither has much value and they aren't get any younger. So now you are looking at dealing them for expirings jusu to get cap space and that's another year of Bosh's career wasted.

Like I said in my original post, Bosh is going to stay only if he genuinely values something in Toronto more than he values winning championships. Maybe it's the city, his status within the franchise, coach Triano, or maybe it's something we aren't even talking about.

With that said, there are a lot of alternative options if Bosh values winning.

Miami: The Heat are better than the Raptors currently. Weather is great in Miami and no state income tax, Wade is a great distributor. Pat Riley has won seven rings in the NBA, how many does Colangelo have? After signing Wade and Bosh, the Heat will still have $10+ million in cap space.

LA: Huge market, Bosh gets to be "the guy", team has at least as much talent as Toronto, he can finally play with a true Center that can play tough in the paint, he'll have a major say on who his next coach and GM is. The Clippers then have a valuable trade chip in Blake Griffin to play with.

Chi: Big market, Bosh is "the guy", team is more talented than Toronto-minus Bosh, gets to play with a Center that can bang down low

OKC: Now if he's looking for lots of rings and cares less about the market size this is the place to go.

Houston: Don't count them out, they have the best pieces to swing a S+T. Bosh gets to go home and play with the leagues best Center and a SG that can shoot lights out and draw a ton of fouls. Brooks-Martin-Battier-Bosh-Yao is the favorite to win the title.

NJ: Saturate the NY market, play with a great young Center, play with an all-star PG, several other young talented wings, $10 million in cap space left over, choose coach, move to Brooklyn, play for Russian Mark Cuban

So that's five options that all have different things to offer but most importantly have more flexible and brighter futures than Toronto does. I didn't include the Knicks but they certainly have a strong case being in the largest media market and being able to sign two max players.

Rapthug
03-17-2010, 07:16 AM
If the Raptors don't make the playoffs WITH Bosh, people are starting to ask whether he's the player the Raptors should be giving a max deal to. It works both ways right?

You nailed it. Most people replying to this thread never watch or follow the Raptors closely. And all they hear from the US media is that he is gone from the start of the year so what else would Rap fans expect to hear.

Your point is very true. Why should the Raptor organization give max money to guy that can't lead them to the playoffs? Bosh continually refuses to take any blame. When he makes comments like, how much more can I do when he just grabs 7 boards and gets schooled in the paint it really frustrates me. When he was hurt he just sat on the bench and joked to Jack instead of pulling for his teammates.....another thing he has complained about is that their bench isn't vocal enough. A max guy has to say "I must to better" and lead by example....something he has failed to do badly during this losing streak.

Another aspect is that he has logged a lot of minutes even though he is still young. He has had issues with his knees in the past. You can't call him injury prone but when you invest so heavily in one guy you better hope he stays healthy.

ldc62
03-17-2010, 09:15 AM
You nailed it. Most people replying to this thread never watch or follow the Raptors closely. And all they hear from the US media is that he is gone from the start of the year so what else would Rap fans expect to hear.

Your point is very true. Why should the Raptor organization give max money to guy that can't lead them to the playoffs? Bosh continually refuses to take any blame. When he makes comments like, how much more can I do when he just grabs 7 boards and gets schooled in the paint it really frustrates me. When he was hurt he just sat on the bench and joked to Jack instead of pulling for his teammates.....another thing he has complained about is that their bench isn't vocal enough. A max guy has to say "I must to better" and lead by example....something he has failed to do badly during this losing streak.

Another aspect is that he has logged a lot of minutes even though he is still young. He has had issues with his knees in the past. You can't call him injury prone but when you invest so heavily in one guy you better hope he stays healthy.

You realize the media will just blame everyone else... they will look at Bosh's stats and pin the reason why the Raptors are bad is because of the coach and the players.

todu82
03-17-2010, 09:19 AM
I think Bosh is as good as gone from the Raptors in the off-season. Really to bad as he was their best player and seemed to enjoy playing there.

xxseven72ducexx
03-17-2010, 09:28 AM
bosh is coming to new york with joe johnson

miller74
03-17-2010, 09:44 AM
He's going to leave but the team thats going to get him is going to give up alot because in order for Bosh to get max money he has to do a sign and trade. I could see him going to the bulls for Deng, Noah +

Kobe2324
03-17-2010, 09:51 AM
I say it's 50/50, the reason I say that is because yes he will probly want out for missing the playoffs but at the same time nobody will offer this guy a max deal other than the Raptors. Considering this is probly going to be his biggest contract he will be offered in his career, I believe he will pick money. Not saying he wont demand a trade at some point over the next couple years but no way he turns down a max deal from the raptors to play somewhere else. Anyone who offers a max deal is crazy, he's simply not worth that much. I say max 80-90 mil over 6 years.

GodsSon
03-17-2010, 11:50 AM
I say it's 50/50, the reason I say that is because yes he will probly want out for missing the playoffs but at the same time nobody will offer this guy a max deal other than the Raptors. Considering this is probly going to be his biggest contract he will be offered in his career, I believe he will pick money. Not saying he wont demand a trade at some point over the next couple years but no way he turns down a max deal from the raptors to play somewhere else. Anyone who offers a max deal is crazy, he's simply not worth that much. I say max 80-90 mil over 6 years.

Which is what I said...people make it seem like after re-signing a contract he's stuck here for the full 6 years, if things aren't looking up by year 3 in that deal he could just approach the FO for a possible trade...the trade market would still be HUGE for him at that point in time

masalex1205
03-17-2010, 11:57 AM
If I was Bosh, I'd go to OKC

thescore53
03-17-2010, 12:12 PM
if we miss the playoffs then bosh cant be considered a superstar, wade is carrying the heat who arent very talented,

Tblaze
03-17-2010, 12:28 PM
if we miss the playoffs then bosh cant be considered a superstar, wade is carrying the heat who arent very talented,

I agree. To be honest I think a Bargs/Bosh frontcourt isn't EVER going to work because you won't have a defensive presence inside to stop driving players. Also what I got from the game against Portland is the rebounding that really hurts them. I don't know the exact stats but if memory serves me right Toronto shot like 61% and Portland like 45% and still came up with a fairly sized win because of all the extra oppurtunites...

So seeing Bargnani is going to be around for a while, I think the best the best solution for toronto is a S&T for a defensively minded C (but who isn't looking for that), or an upgrade at pg or sg... You can move Bargs back to his natural PF.

I do think that Bosh isn't likely to stay if toronto misses they playoffs, same if they get swept in the 1st round... But on the other hand I don't think he's their answer to build a true contender aswell... So they might be better of letting go of him (if they can get value in return that is)

smith&wesson
03-17-2010, 12:29 PM
were gonna make the playoffs and were gonna beat whoever in the first round. my kush bong told me last night. and i dont think he ever lies to me. :smoking:

smith&wesson
03-17-2010, 12:34 PM
if we miss the playoffs then bosh cant be considered a superstar, wade is carrying the heat who arent very talented,

the heat arent talented ??

wade + beasly are easily better then the two best players on the raps.
chalmers is a good yonge point gaurd.

and this is coming from a raps fan. i mean i love the raps. but your statement is false.

thescore53
03-17-2010, 12:36 PM
I agree. To be honest I think a Bargs/Bosh frontcourt isn't EVER going to work because you won't have a defensive presence inside to stop driving players. Also what I got from the game against Portland is the rebounding that really hurts them. I don't know the exact stats but if memory serves me right Toronto shot like 61% and Portland like 45% and still came up with a fairly sized win because of all the extra oppurtunites...

So seeing Bargnani is going to be around for a while, I think the best the best solution for toronto is a S&T for a defensively minded C (but who isn't looking for that), or an upgrade at pg or sg... You can move Bargs back to his natural PF.

I do think that Bosh isn't likely to stay if toronto misses they playoffs, same if they get swept in the 1st round... But on the other hand I don't think he's their answer to build a true contender aswell... So they might be better of letting go of him (if they can get value in return that is)

i agree, if bosh resign trading bargs is the best solution they compliment each other well on offense but defensively its horrid the 6'9 amir rebounds alot better then bargs , but maybe bargs can improve on that on the offseason

GodsSon
03-17-2010, 12:38 PM
the heat arent talented ??

wade + beasly are easily better then the two best players on the raps.
chalmers is a good yonge point gaurd.

and this is coming from a raps fan. i mean i love the raps. but your statement is false.

Sure, but a Bosh/Bargs/Jose/Hedo quartet is better than the Heat's top 4 players

thescore53
03-17-2010, 12:39 PM
the heat arent talented ??

wade + beasly are easily better then the two best players on the raps.
chalmers is a good yonge point gaurd.

and this is coming from a raps fan. i mean i love the raps. but your statement is false.

they arent very talented mayb itll change this offseason but right now theyre not

thescore53
03-17-2010, 01:04 PM
why couldnt hedo just take the deal in portland

magichatnumber9
03-17-2010, 01:18 PM
Am I in the minority that thinks Bosh will stay in Toronto. It is a great city to live in. Once they get the bad elements off the team they should be straight.

GodsSon
03-17-2010, 01:21 PM
Am I in the minority that thinks Bosh will stay in Toronto. It is a great city to live in. Once they get the bad elements off the team they should be straight.

WOW, lol did I just read that correctly?? An American who thinks Bosh will stay put...haha yes sir, you are part of a very small minority

Tony_Starks
03-17-2010, 01:21 PM
Am I in the minority that thinks Bosh will stay in Toronto. It is a great city to live in. Once they get the bad elements off the team they should be straight.


I agree. Plus I think people are being a little premature about them missing the playoffs. Keep in mind in the east a three or four game win streak could take a team from the 9th spot to 5th or 6th.

Eagles4Lyfe
03-17-2010, 01:34 PM
oh god here we go again..Seriously well make the playoffs no team outside of the playoffs is going to make it and well get it together soon so chyll out

JordansBulls
03-17-2010, 02:04 PM
Not only that, but they have some heavy contracts as well in Hedo and Bargs. Also he will never be in a position with those players on the team to have HCA in any playoff series again.

Raph12
03-17-2010, 02:10 PM
Not only that, but they have some heavy contracts as well in Hedo and Bargs. Also he will never be in a position with those players on the team to have HCA in any playoff series again.

Bosh is a soft leader and a poor defender, he needs to play with someone like Wade or Lebron so that he can just do what he does best (for him), and that's score points... With that being said, you'd also need to pair him with a good defensive minded center, otherwise, they'll get killed in the paint.

With Hedo and Bargnani locked up for the next couple of years, I don't see Bosh staying in TO.

RaptorizedKevin
03-17-2010, 02:15 PM
yeah. if bargnani doesnt play d and rebound, the raptors may not make the playoffs. if they want scoring, they should trade him for a guard and sign a defensive big man who can rebound and block shots.

ChiSox219
03-17-2010, 02:28 PM
He's going to leave but the team thats going to get him is going to give up alot because in order for Bosh to get max money he has to do a sign and trade. I could see him going to the bulls for Deng, Noah +

The Bulls would be better off signing Lee or Boozer than give up Deng and Noah for Bosh. No team is going to give up two of it's best three players in a S&T unless those players have terrible contracts.


I say it's 50/50, the reason I say that is because yes he will probly want out for missing the playoffs but at the same time nobody will offer this guy a max deal other than the Raptors. Considering this is probly going to be his biggest contract he will be offered in his career, I believe he will pick money. Not saying he wont demand a trade at some point over the next couple years but no way he turns down a max deal from the raptors to play somewhere else. Anyone who offers a max deal is crazy, he's simply not worth that much. I say max 80-90 mil over 6 years.

Bosh is worth the max, just watch him play.


Bosh is a soft leader and a poor defender, he needs to play with someone like Wade or Lebron so that he can just do what he does best (for him), and that's score points... With that being said, you'd also need to pair him with a good defensive minded center, otherwise, they'll get killed in the paint.

With Hedo and Bargnani locked up for the next couple of years, I don't see Bosh staying in TO.

Bosh is a solid defender, not great but not poor. He helps well, can defend without help, commits few fouls, and is a great rebounder. He's not going to make All-Defense or lead the league in blocks but he's a better defender than PF's like Lee, Boozer, Amare.

You put any player on defense with Bargnani and Calderon and they'll look like bad defenders to the average fan.

alencp3
03-17-2010, 04:15 PM
Raps will make the playoffs as 8th seed and get swept by the cavs..And Bosh will sign for Bulls.
Thats what I think.

RaptorFan89
03-17-2010, 04:54 PM
Hey if the Raps dont make the playoffs why would the raps want to pay 21mill for Bosh!

SwaggaIke
03-18-2010, 08:26 PM
I've sifted through a lot of nonsense in this thread since my last post.

1. The 3-4 "Robin's" scenario is NOT LIKELY. Not only did the Pistons have a BATMAN in Chauncey Billups, they also had MULTIPLE players who could get it done on any given night. The 04 Pistons are one of the GREATEST defensive teams of the modern era. The Raptors have never truly focused on defense and likely never will.

2. The misconception of Toronto being a little city in Canada and not getting respect is also nonsense. Being from Detroit I've been to Canada multiple times. Toronto is a beautiful city on par w/ most major US cities. That has nothing to do w/ most believing Bosh will leave. If Toronto is a top seed in the East competing for a ring there is no discussion, but the truth is they are not.

3. The Raptors have a few trade worthy assets, but what can Calderon, Jack or Bargs REALLY land you on the open market?

4. If the Raptors miss the playoffs (unlikely at this point) its a done deal. If they don't, they won't have a first round pick to add to an already locked in core. No offense to Raps fans but Bosh would be best served making a move to the Bulls or Heat.

notoriouzzzz
03-18-2010, 10:10 PM
He's actually been going around for the most part of the year talking about how he likes Toronto, and even BC (GM), didn't look to trade him at all.

But now, wow they're struggling, and Bosh is getting vocal. Somehow the Bulls are still in the hunt, and if they get healthy quck they can overtake the Raps. Chicago is only a game back and they've been terrible.

If the Raps were playing terribe like this right before the break, i think they trade him, but really they couldn't cause they were red hot, but the tides have definitely turned for the worse.

Is it safe to say now that CB4 is done in Toronto?

I'd like him to stay but man, just seems like its not gonna work out for sure now... what do you guys think?
Well... Lakers will win the championship, then trade for Bosh with a Bryan Colangelo collectable: European players (Gasol and Sasha)!!!

shep33
03-18-2010, 10:28 PM
I think he's gone for sure now actually, i hate to say it though. They'll get the 8th seed in the east, so they'll get swept by the Cavs, which isn't much of an improvement of not making it. I just don't think the Raps have the players to go to that next level. Derozan is good, but still a year or two away, Hedo isn't as productive as they thought he'd be, Bargs is great offensively but defense and rebounding is questionable, they keep shuffling their pg's, athletic team and bench, but still they're no match for the east's elite still. If Bosh goes to the Bulls or Heat next year, they'd be better than the Raps this year, particularly Chicago:

Rose
Hinrich (though i'm guessin he gets traded)
Deng
Bosh
Noah

shep33
03-18-2010, 10:32 PM
I agree. Plus I think people are being a little premature about them missing the playoffs. Keep in mind in the east a three or four game win streak could take a team from the 9th spot to 5th or 6th.

Yeah, but they're not on par yet with other teams, and say they even get the 5th spot for the next couple years, they'll still have to play Atlanta (if JJ stays), Cleveland, Orlando, and other teams will be improving especially the Bucks, Bobcats, and Bulls or Knicks if they get a star player.

Very very disappointing year for the Raps, way too inconsistent, and their D is horrendous.

masalex1205
03-18-2010, 10:38 PM
if the Bulls keep sucking there is no way the Raps, despite their best efforts, won't make the playoffs

RaptorizedKevin
03-18-2010, 10:40 PM
people assume bosh will head to chicago. yeah keep dreaming.

RaptorizedKevin
03-18-2010, 10:41 PM
people think bosh is dying to leave toronto because its a blizzard and always cold. peopel dont know anything when it comes to otherr cities.

HuRRiCaNeS324
03-18-2010, 10:46 PM
If Bosh stays he would have to be there for like 5 more years and i dont see him making that commitment to a team that is an 8 seed. Plus they dont have enough money to improve the team. They'll have the same team next year and in a conference that is gonna get WAY better. The Heat, Bulls, Knicks, and Nets are pretty much guaranteed to get a lot better. If they are struggling to make the playoffs this year then they will have an even tougher time doing it next year.

Chris Bosh is gone no matter what.

thescore53
03-18-2010, 10:51 PM
bosh gone no matter what huh, your arguement do make sense you cant decide for him you dont know what hes feeling

Kyben36
03-18-2010, 11:00 PM
If they do miss the playoffs, It would be very very likely, but not a sure thing.

I am realy upset though, the bulls season is just falling apart, and I can feel bosh sliping through our grasp, and what a dumb move giving the Bucks the right to swap picks, that means even if we are loosing, we dont get a better draft pick for it, unless some how the bulls can just win everything and the bucks loose everything.

dont know if anyone else heard, but he went off in the raps locker room a few weeks ago, talking about how his teamates arnt giving it there all, not giving playoff intensity.

Kyben36
03-18-2010, 11:03 PM
if the Bulls keep sucking there is no way the Raps, despite their best efforts, won't make the playoffs

The suckage comes more from injury and bad coaching then tallent,

Rose Deng and Noah are our best players, and without all 3 of them, we dont have realy any starter quality players, Hinrich and TAJ arnt going to win you any games being the best players, and Brad miller is a bench C at best.

Draco
03-18-2010, 11:07 PM
Meh.. whether the Raps make the playoffs or not, it doesn't change the reality of their and Bosh's long term outlook.. which I think is what Bosh is going to look at when considering re-signing. As already mentioned.. the Raps can pay Bosh the most $, they have some fairly large contracts that are going to hinder their efforts to improve their team, and by the look of their record they're a team that needs a lot of improvement.

Draco
03-18-2010, 11:09 PM
and what a dumb move giving the Bucks the right to swap picks, that means even if we are loosing, we dont get a better draft pick for it, unless some how the bulls can just win everything and the bucks loose everything.

It's top 10 protected and it was the price paid to get out from under Salmons contract. There's the possibility that we can keep our pick...

Shady66
03-18-2010, 11:15 PM
I dont think Bosh is staying. Toronto aside from Bargnani and DD really have no future. Turks bad contract screws them from signing somebody else to solidify their team.

thescore53
03-18-2010, 11:38 PM
what if bosh,wade,lbj,all stay and amare and the suns decide to stay together

then alot of teams are screwed esp the knicks and heat, bulls could still compete

Draco
03-18-2010, 11:40 PM
what if bosh,wade,lbj,all stay and amare and the suns decide to stay together

then alot of teams are screwed esp the knicks and heat, bulls could still compete

2011 FA? Trades? Having cap space is never a bad thing.

wileyisTOFU
03-18-2010, 11:45 PM
he'd probably be more likely to do a sign and trade if he WAS going to go to a different team, so he wouldn't completely screw Toronto.

thescore53
03-18-2010, 11:47 PM
yes but a wade would be pissed they wasted his best regulat season last year and this year isnt that good,, and dont know how much longer knick fans can take empty promises

king4day
03-19-2010, 12:48 AM
The same could be said for Wade.

Kyben36
03-19-2010, 02:31 AM
It's top 10 protected and it was the price paid to get out from under Salmons contract. There's the possibility that we can keep our pick...

we wont have a top 10 pick, the botom 10 teams only have a max of 23 wins right now and we already have 30+ , It would take major tanking to get under the top 10 and prevent the bucks from swaping with us.

RaptorizedKevin
03-19-2010, 10:01 AM
Chris bosh wants to keep the fame , he wants more money, he will stay as the 1st option. Btw did yu guys know Bosh wanted turkoglu on the raptors? and it was kinda his own fault, not the raptors gm . Im sure we can get rid of turk if he plays well in the playoofs, in the offseason his value would sky rocket. Plus we have 12 mil expirings in '11 we can sign someone huge and get our team to a contending level. :P . sorry bulls fans.

Draco
03-19-2010, 10:08 AM
Chris bosh wants to keep the fame , he wants more money, he will stay as the 1st option. Btw did yu guys know Bosh wanted turkoglu on the raptors? and it was kinda his own fault, not the raptors gm . Im sure we can get rid of turk if he plays well in the playoofs, in the offseason his value would sky rocket. Plus we have 12 mil expirings in '11 we can sign someone huge and get our team to a contending level. :P . sorry bulls fans.

Yeah, you'll probably be able to swap him for a contract of equal value and for a player of equal talent/production.

thescore53
03-19-2010, 11:28 AM
all im sayin is there alot of dissapointed people like bosh said everyone is goin where theyre most comfortable

Chronz
03-19-2010, 11:29 AM
Meh.. whether the Raps make the playoffs or not, it doesn't change the reality of their and Bosh's long term outlook.. which I think is what Bosh is going to look at when considering re-signing. As already mentioned.. the Raps can pay Bosh the most $, they have some fairly large contracts that are going to hinder their efforts to improve their team, and by the look of their record they're a team that needs a lot of improvement.

THIS

Why should it matter what they end up as, if they are a .500 team that makes it or not, is that what you want to lock yourself into?

thescore53
03-19-2010, 11:42 AM
theres still one factor and thats bosh no one knows what hes thinking

Bob_at_york
03-19-2010, 11:59 AM
I think if they miss the playoffs than Bosh is going to walk (unless them missing the playoffs was somehow his fault).

FlakeyFool
03-19-2010, 12:49 PM
hes walking either way. If he truly wanted to stay in Toronto he'd come out and say it. I'd rather miss the playoffs and keep our draft pick then go to the playoffs and have bosh walk AND lose our draft pick.

Bob_at_york
03-19-2010, 01:06 PM
hes walking either way. If he truly wanted to stay in Toronto he'd come out and say it. I'd rather miss the playoffs and keep our draft pick then go to the playoffs and have bosh walk AND lose our draft pick.
I think he has said that he is staying. He has said a lot of things that indicate a willingness to stay. Now they could be lies or you could trust the guy. That is up to you.

sNaKeS
03-19-2010, 09:32 PM
It happens when it happens. I have a feeling he's more focused on actually playing basketball right now than worrying about his future. When the raptor season is over is when he's going to really sit down and think about it, until then we shouldn't hear anything yet.