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View Full Version : Why David Kahn is an Idiot



mightybosstone
03-16-2010, 01:56 AM
Of all the franchises in the NBA, it's hard to find a team to feel worse for than the Minnesota Timberwolves. Almost a decade of disappointment for KG and 15 years of failed moves by Kevin McHale (who gives Isaiah Thomas a run for his money as worst GM of the decade) and it almost seemed like this franchise had no hope whatsoever. Then they did something that was long overdue... fired McHale and hired new GM David Kahn.

With two picks in the 2009 draft, Al Jefferson and Kevin Love, things were looking up for the Wolves. Then Kahn drafted Ricky Rubio and it looked like the Wolves were a wing scorer away from having a brilliant future team and they draft....... Johnny Flynn?

I realize that this has been talked about a million times, and I think Bill Simmons has probably written at least a dozen rants on it at this point, but I felt like examining it once more just to try and understand the complete stupidity of it. Why reexamine it? Because Stephen Curry had another amazing game tonight and almost single handedly kept the Warriors in a game they had no business winning.

Imagine an alternate reality where the basketball gods don't hate the T-Wolves. With the 6th pick the Minnesota Timberwolves select..... Stephen Curry from Davidson! Play Curry as an undersized 2 (which should fit his game just fine) and Rubio now has no competition in Minnesota. While I can't blame him for not wanting to play there, he'd have an immensely talented team and maybe he decides to play in Minnesota instead of opting to stay overseas.

We'd get Rubio in the NBA at least one season earlier and he'd be playing next to the most talented rookie in the draft. All of a sudden, Minnesota is a contender and Curry isn't wasted on a team that already has a mirror image of himself (Monta Ellis) and is run almost as poorly as the Wolves are.

To clarify, I'm not a Wolves fan, I'm a Rockets' fan, but I'm a fan of good basketball. I love watching teams like the Thunder play and think about how many great years of basketball I'll get to see from them. Then I look at teams like Minnesota and Golden State who are potentially going nowhere as idiot GMs bury themselves with horrible draft picks and miserable contracts, and I'm sad. It's bad for the NBA and it's bad for fans, whether you like the team or not.

Maybe Minnesota will get lucky and Rubio will come to the states and become the transcendent player he's capable of. (Flynn's all right, but Rubio's potential is monumental.) Maybe they get lucky again and snag someone like Evan Turner in the draft and they still turn out to be a phenomenal team in the future. But you know what? I still hate David Kahn because that's one fewer terrible team we could have had in the NBA one year earlier. It's one more year we could have had of Ricky Rubio. And it's one more talented duo we could have seen, but we'll always have to ask ourselves "what if"?

On second thought, even if Minnesota gets the first pick next year, Kahn will probably screw that up, too. With the first pick in the 2010 NBA Draft, the Minnesota Timberwolves select.... John Wall!

SteveNash
03-16-2010, 02:04 AM
Why would Rubio come over early if they drafted Ellis? Rubio's a whiner and is pretty much a lock for being the biggest bust of 2009. Rubio thought he could just waltz into NY and own the city. Once Minnesota drafted him he tried to get traded while whining all the way home so he could go back to sucking in Europe.

mightybosstone
03-16-2010, 02:07 AM
Why would Rubio come over early if they drafted Ellis? Rubio's a whiner and is pretty much a lock for being the biggest bust of 2009. Rubio thought he could just waltz into NY and own the city. Once Minnesota drafted him he tried to get traded while whining all the way home so he could go back to sucking in Europe.

I think you mean Curry. But to answer your question, I think he'd have been a lot more inclined to come to Minnesota if they didn't draft another true PG DIRECTLY after they him. Also, I think Rubio's going to be a special player if he ever actually comes to the states.

elizur
03-16-2010, 02:13 AM
Why would Rubio come over early if they drafted Ellis? Rubio's a whiner and is pretty much a lock for being the biggest bust of 2009. Rubio thought he could just waltz into NY and own the city. Once Minnesota drafted him he tried to get traded while whining all the way home so he could go back to sucking in Europe.

Besides the fact that he could not pay his entire buyout without being in a big market. He needed endorsement money to do that. His passing ability is unreal.

Bausman
03-16-2010, 02:18 AM
I agree with everything... except I dont think Rubios potential is "monumental."

I have been surprised with Currys ability to run the point so well and we all know he can score... I think his upside is more monumental than Rubio. Curry has the potential to put up Nash like shooting % from ft, fg, and from 3 and maybe even assists.

And, we can all see what Tyreke has been doing all season and he is only getting better. No matter what year Rubio decides to come to the big leagues, both of those guys will be better than him.




Blake Griffen.

SteveNash
03-16-2010, 02:19 AM
I think you mean Curry. But to answer your question, I think he'd have been a lot more inclined to come to Minnesota if they didn't draft another true PG DIRECTLY after they him. Also, I think Rubio's going to be a special player if he ever actually comes to the states.

Yeah, I meant Curry. Still don't see how Rubio would want to come over to play for Minnesota. Rubio was crying about his buyout, he just entered the draft hoping to get what he wanted otherwise he'd just run back home to get schooled in Spain. Rubio is looking like the next Fran Vasquez.


Besides the fact that he could not pay his entire buyout without being in a big market. He needed endorsement money to do that. His passing ability is unreal.

So then he shouldn't have entered the draft if he didn't want to get taken by certain teams. His passing is overrated, his defense sucks and he won't be able to score in the NBA.

ko8e24
03-16-2010, 02:52 AM
Of all the franchises in the NBA, it's hard to find a team to feel worse for than the Minnesota Timberwolves. Almost a decade of disappointment for KG and 15 years of failed moves by Kevin McHale (who gives Isaiah Thomas a run for his money as worst GM of the decade) and it almost seemed like this franchise had no hope whatsoever. Then they did something that was long overdue... fired McHale and hired new GM David Kahn.

With two picks in the 2009 draft, Al Jefferson and Kevin Love, things were looking up for the Wolves. Then Kahn drafted Ricky Rubio and it looked like the Wolves were a wing scorer away from having a brilliant future team and they draft....... Johnny Flynn?

I realize that this has been talked about a million times, and I think Bill Simmons has probably written at least a dozen rants on it at this point, but I felt like examining it once more just to try and understand the complete stupidity of it. Why reexamine it? Because Stephen Curry had another amazing game tonight and almost single handedly kept the Warriors in a game they had no business winning.

Imagine an alternate reality where the basketball gods don't hate the T-Wolves. With the 6th pick the Minnesota Timberwolves select..... Stephen Curry from Davidson! Play Curry as an undersized 2 (which should fit his game just fine) and Rubio now has no competition in Minnesota. While I can't blame him for not wanting to play there, he'd have an immensely talented team and maybe he decides to play in Minnesota instead of opting to stay overseas.

We'd get Rubio in the NBA at least one season earlier and he'd be playing next to the most talented rookie in the draft. All of a sudden, Minnesota is a contender and Curry isn't wasted on a team that already has a mirror image of himself (Monta Ellis) and is run almost as poorly as the Wolves are.

To clarify, I'm not a Wolves fan, I'm a Rockets' fan, but I'm a fan of good basketball. I love watching teams like the Thunder play and think about how many great years of basketball I'll get to see from them. Then I look at teams like Minnesota and Golden State who are potentially going nowhere as idiot GMs bury themselves with horrible draft picks and miserable contracts, and I'm sad. It's bad for the NBA and it's bad for fans, whether you like the team or not.

Maybe Minnesota will get lucky and Rubio will come to the states and become the transcendent player he's capable of. (Flynn's all right, but Rubio's potential is monumental.) Maybe they get lucky again and snag someone like Evan Turner in the draft and they still turn out to be a phenomenal team in the future. But you know what? I still hate David Kahn because that's one fewer terrible team we could have had in the NBA one year earlier. It's one more year we could have had of Ricky Rubio. And it's one more talented duo we could have seen, but we'll always have to ask ourselves "what if"?

On second thought, even if Minnesota gets the first pick next year, Kahn will probably screw that up, too. With the first pick in the 2010 NBA Draft, the Minnesota Timberwolves select.... John Wall!


My gut feeling tells me you don't like David Kahn too much.

mightybosstone
03-16-2010, 02:59 AM
My gut feeling tells me you don't like David Kahn too much.

I pick on Kahn, but there are a ton of poorly run, mismanaged teams in the league today. Considering how much money is spent on players and how long the game has been around, you'd think teams could hire people who know what the hell they're doing.

The only benefit I see is that I'm a Rockets' fan and the stupidity of the rest of the league is Daryl Morey's gain. If anything, maybe I should be praising Kahn's stupidity. Maybe Morey can get Rubio for a 2nd rounder and a shiny object to be named later...

ko8e24
03-16-2010, 03:13 AM
I pick on Kahn, but there are a ton of poorly run, mismanaged teams in the league today. Considering how much money is spent on players and how long the game has been around, you'd think teams could hire people who know what the hell they're doing.

The only benefit I see is that I'm a Rockets' fan and the stupidity of the rest of the league is Daryl Morey's gain. If anything, maybe I should be praising Kahn's stupidity. Maybe Morey can get Rubio for a 2nd rounder and a shiny object to be named later...

All I know is that you have a gem in Flynn. That guy can just straight up ball. He's young, but I've seen good stuff from the dude.

Chronz
03-16-2010, 03:13 AM
You didnt even mention when he tried to say the Rockets would have to give up assets in order to convince him to take Tmac, trade deadline passes and the Rox end up with an All-Star caliber swing and a bunch of draft picks and Hill. Man what a lame, he clearly has no idea of a players market worth.

Chronz
03-16-2010, 03:14 AM
All I know is that you have a gem in Flynn. That guy can just straight up ball. He's young, but I've seen good stuff from the dude.

Meh, hes no Lawson and he was taken like 16th

ldc62
03-16-2010, 03:35 AM
You didnt even mention when he tried to say the Rockets would have to give up assets in order to convince him to take Tmac, trade deadline passes and the Rox end up with an All-Star caliber swing and a bunch of draft picks and Hill. Man what a lame, he clearly has no idea of a players market worth.

haha I remember that. Seriously, I have no idea why they went 2 PGs. Is Love still coming off the bench? They didn't even have to draft Curry, choosing Demar Derozan would have been a better decision than 2 PGs...

Breatnach
03-16-2010, 03:59 AM
Yeah, in retrospect drafting someone else might have seen more sensible... (Collison at #21 anyone!?)

But there are plenty of other drafts that were busts (think Thabeet) and Kahn has gotten the most value out of contracts like Miller, Cardinal etc. We're positioned to make a good signing and some noise in the next couple of years.

Rubio will be the cherry on the icing.

abe_froman
03-16-2010, 04:04 AM
i just got thinking yeah drafting two pg's,and not at least trading one of them or at least have it that one could play sg decently was a dumb move

and sg is something they have always desperately needed and have had ample opportunities to not trade away on draft night(mayo,roy,allen...)

Evolution23
03-16-2010, 05:52 AM
he ****ed up but maybe he can trade Rubio for someone and ease the pain

dwadefan03
03-16-2010, 06:27 AM
he got johnny flynn, kevin love, al jefferson, a phenom point guard in spain whose value is only going to grow along with about 4 picks in next years unbeleivable draft one of which is going to be in the lotto possibly resulting in evan turner? yea hes an idiot

mightybosstone
03-16-2010, 08:55 AM
he got johnny flynn, kevin love, al jefferson, a phenom point guard in spain whose value is only going to grow along with about 4 picks in next years unbeleivable draft one of which is going to be in the lotto possibly resulting in evan turner? yea hes an idiot

Well, HE didn't acquire Love or Jefferson. And if they win the lottery this season, it's because their team is so terrible. I don't think that's something you should congratulate. But yeah, if you want to praise him for having players on the roster that he didn't pick, doing a horrible job in last year's draft and being horrible this season, then he's doing a fantastic job.

:facepalm:

dwadefan03
03-16-2010, 09:07 AM
Well, HE didn't acquire Love or Jefferson. And if they win the lottery this season, it's because their team is so terrible. I don't think that's something you should congratulate. But yeah, if you want to praise him for having players on the roster that he didn't pick, doing a horrible job in last year's draft and being horrible this season, then he's doing a fantastic job.

:facepalm:

i didnt say he ACQUIRED those players i said he had those players on his team. and is in a good position to build upon that. and wtf is so worng with what he did in last years draft?

He got a solid pg in johnny flynn, he got a MASSIVE trading chip in ricky rubio, and he traded out of a weak draft for a mid pick in a strong draft. Plus he has the team in position to go after a decent free agent this summer. thats something to applaud if you ask me


and i didnt say that losing was something to applaud but the only way bad teams get better is thru free agents or thru draft picks and kahn has put his team in a position to obtain both of them.

dnl123
03-16-2010, 02:26 PM
Well, HE didn't acquire Love or Jefferson. And if they win the lottery this season, it's because their team is so terrible. I don't think that's something you should congratulate. But yeah, if you want to praise him for having players on the roster that he didn't pick, doing a horrible job in last year's draft and being horrible this season, then he's doing a fantastic job.

:facepalm:
:clap:

You say you're a fan of the NBA and you don't know what a rebuilding process looks like , you must not know anything about the Timberwolves. Here I'll give you the scoop. The Wolves had possibly the worst GM in history for far too long, his name was Kevin Mchale, now Kahn is trying to build a team that can compete after Mchale is finally gone. So do your research, nobody likes the dude that says he knows what he's talking about, but obviously doesn't, and that's you.

29$JerZ
03-16-2010, 02:28 PM
He better hope the Rubio signing is worth it soon. He may have an idea of brining him to Minny or trading him but passing up on solid guards even though Flynn is doing good is a bad way to begin a GM career.

Tony_Starks
03-16-2010, 03:45 PM
Kahn is the worst. He had a chance to make some really good moves this year and potentially turn the franchise around and he completely blew it. Passing on Curry was ridiculously stupid. Flynn is ehhh... so so but not that great. He was averaging more TO's than assist at one point.

Rubio? Come on you mean to tell me that if the rest of the basketball world from casual fan to NBA execs were all saying Rubio would never play there that Kahn couldn't see it? That was a complete waste of a pic. Even if he has trade value based off his "potential" he still has the contract mess to work out. Not to mention he isn't exactly setting the world on fire in Europe.

Rubio coming to Minnesota is Lebron coming to New York. You can believe it and fantasize all you want but it just ain't gonna happen!

WSU Tony
03-16-2010, 08:22 PM
You guys dont' know enough about the Wolves to make a valid argument. Seriously, start a thread in the Wolves section with your "points" on how bad Kahn is and I can guarantee there is a great reason for every move he's done.

For those of you who want instant gratification from the draft, don't bother posting. For those of you who are honestly curious about how to build value though the draft for a deep playoff team in 4 years (instead of a .500 peaking team in 2 years) come post in the wolves section. It would be fun to talk.

Tell them I challenged you, that will fire up the Wolves section. ;)

superkegger
03-16-2010, 10:55 PM
At this point, if the Wolves do end up with the #1 pick, it gives them incredible flexibility. They then have wonderful trade chips.

You draft the best talent available (don't know if Flynn was at #6 but whatever). Drafting Rubio was a good call, because he is a valuable trading chip. And will continue to be that. It's not like Minnesota needs the talent now. They're a ways from contending, and Kahn knows this. There is no point in even remotely trying ot make a run at the playoffs right now for the wolves. Be bad and let it work out how it does, and build up young talent, and if that also means you build up great trading pieces, so be it. That's essentially how the Celtics got where they are.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with acquiring lots of talent, even if it's at the same position. If they are desirable players, they're valuable trade chips, which is what matters.

brandonwarne52
03-16-2010, 11:13 PM
At this point, if the Wolves do end up with the #1 pick, it gives them incredible flexibility. They then have wonderful trade chips.

You draft the best talent available (don't know if Flynn was at #6 but whatever). Drafting Rubio was a good call, because he is a valuable trading chip. And will continue to be that. It's not like Minnesota needs the talent now. They're a ways from contending, and Kahn knows this. There is no point in even remotely trying ot make a run at the playoffs right now for the wolves. Be bad and let it work out how it does, and build up young talent, and if that also means you build up great trading pieces, so be it. That's essentially how the Celtics got where they are.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with acquiring lots of talent, even if it's at the same position. If they are desirable players, they're valuable trade chips, which is what matters.

THIS mother****ers.

mightybosstone
03-16-2010, 11:36 PM
You guys dont' know enough about the Wolves to make a valid argument. Seriously, start a thread in the Wolves section with your "points" on how bad Kahn is and I can guarantee there is a great reason for every move he's done.
If you spray enough Febreze on a giant plate of ****, it will eventually smell good. My point? You can argue that he's been making great moves forever and eventually convince people that he's been making the right decisions, but after the arguments wear off, the team will still smell like ****.


For those of you who want instant gratification from the draft, don't bother posting. For those of you who are honestly curious about how to build value though the draft for a deep playoff team in 4 years (instead of a .500 peaking team in 2 years) come post in the wolves section. It would be fun to talk.
Where did I say I wanted instant gratification? Did you even READ my main post? No matter how you look at it, Curry was the MUCH better pick than Flynn. If I'm trying to build for the future, why wouldn't I want two of the players with the highest ceiling in the entire draft?

If I'm Minnesota and I have Rubio, Curry, Love and Jefferson, I feel like I'm set for the next 5 years. Will I make the playoffs this season? Hell no! But at least I'm year closer to building a successful team, and I don't have to wait through another year of being awful. If I'm Minnesota and I have Flynn, an unhappy overseas Rubio, Love and Jefferson and a GAPING hole at both wing positions, than my team is going nowhere currently and that's one more year I have to suck to "improve later". It's one thing to say you're going to build your team around the draft and play for the future, and another thing to intentionally suck to get a better pick next season.

You know what will be the biggest joke EVER? If Rubio decides to sit out ANOTHER season in Minnesota, Kahn caves and trades his rights for a late first rounder or a 2nd round pick only to watch Rubio turn into one of the best point guards of his generation. If he was smart, he should have done one of two things:

A. Draft Curry to put the best possible talent around Rubio and coax him to come to Minnesota THIS season, while guaranteeing him a starting spot at PG.

or

B. If he was going to keep Flynn, immediately try to move Rubio while his rights are really worth something. There are some teams that would have given up a lot for him in that draft...

Instead, they ended up with Flynn and an unhappy player whose rights seem to becoming less and less valuable. If Flynn was the best point guard in this last draft, you could possibly argue the validity of the Flynn pick. Oh yeah... Jennings, Collison and Lawson have all been significantly better and were all picked MUCH later than Flynn. Not to mention the fact that they had a better PG on their team already.... RICKY FREAKIN' RUBIO!!!!

superkegger
03-16-2010, 11:48 PM
MBT. You're soley evaluating the Flynn pick on production this year. You do see how incredibly flawed that is, don't you? Jennings, while he had a great first month, has for the most part gotten more and more average by the month. Curry, yeah, he's doing good, in Golden State, would it sustain in another system? Who knows? Lawson has been good in a specific limited role on a good team with some very talented players around him. Would is sustain were he the lead dog on a team? Collison, has had some great moments in Chris Paul's stead. He's surprised a lot of people. Will it sustain for a career?

Look, I'm not saying Flynn is better than those guys, and I'm not saying he's not. But it's their rookie year. It's way to early to say, Flynn was clearly the wrong choice for this rebuilding franchise.

And why can't he still move Rubio for something valuable? You think teams no longer desire him? That all of the sudden because he's 19, he's no longer a valuable asset? He's still a valuable trading chip, or a talented player to add to their roster.

Mauersota
03-16-2010, 11:51 PM
It's taken me a while but I learned that you can't teach an idiot who doesn't want to understand.

mightybosstone
03-17-2010, 12:06 AM
At this point, if the Wolves do end up with the #1 pick, it gives them incredible flexibility. They then have wonderful trade chips.
Trade chips for who? Surely you don't expect them to get a sign and trade deal for one of the big name free agents? Who in the hell WANTS to play in Minnesota?


You draft the best talent available (don't know if Flynn was at #6 but whatever).
You JUST made my point. Curry was, by far, the superior player and has a ceiling that absolutely eclipses Flynn. Also, you can argue that Minnesota didn't NEED a PG half as badly as they needed a wing player, especially considering their acquisition of Ramon Sessions. Answer me this, would you rather have Ramon Sessions as your starting PG or Corey Brewer as your best wing player?


Drafting Rubio was a good call, because he is a valuable trading chip. And will continue to be that. It's not like Minnesota needs the talent now. They're a ways from contending, and Kahn knows this. There is no point in even remotely trying ot make a run at the playoffs right now for the wolves. Be bad and let it work out how it does, and build up young talent, and if that also means you build up great trading pieces, so be it. That's essentially how the Celtics got where they are.
No. Obviously they're a ways from contending, so you're solution is to... play worse and draft poorly? HOW DOES THAT MAKE SENSE!?! Regardless of whether or not Minnesota gets one of the top picks this year and ends up with a great wing player, that's still one year LATER than they could have had one! And it's not about making the playoffs, but it's about drafting smart, building a team that fans can enjoy watching and accumulating talent over time. I can't say Minnesota has done that.

Also, the Celtics are a HORRIBLE example for several reasons. First, people actually WANT to play for Boston, nobody wants to play for Minnesota. Second, how many times in the NBA history can you think of a team building a champion in one offseason through the acquisition of superstars through a series of super lucky trades? Other than Boston, I'd love you to find another example in the last 20 years. Finally, look at Boston now. They had Rondo, Jefferson and were a couple of patient years away from building a team that could have been darn good for a long time. Now? They're falling apart, will be lucky to get past the first round and have almost no future whatsoever.


There is absolutely nothing wrong with acquiring lots of talent, even if it's at the same position. If they are desirable players, they're valuable trade chips, which is what matters.
I'm sick of this whole idea that you can make one or two trades to immediately become a contender in the league. You don't do it that way, you do it through drafting smart, making an occasional smart trade when you get the chance and creating chemistry with the team over time. I look at my Rockets and thank God Daryl Morey is their GM. He's an amazing evaluator of talent in the draft, makes ridiculously amazing trades and is patient that when it all comes together, he will have built a contender.

In 3 seasons when the Rockets are contending and the Wolves are still talking about "building for the future," we can have this discussion again.

topdog
03-17-2010, 12:07 AM
This Kahn-bashing is ridiculous. It hasn't even been a year that he's been on the job and already people are passing final judgment when he promises a 3 yr. plan.

For all you bashing the Rubio pick, remember we didn't even have the 5 pick until Washington traded it for Foye and Miller (big sacrifice).

Plus, how many wings or centers were in last year's draft? Derozan and Ellington, BJ Mullens and...?? We got one and traded a pick to get one this year when we also have cap to spend so kiss my grits!

All hail Kahn!

mightybosstone
03-17-2010, 12:08 AM
It's taken me a while but I learned that you can't teach an idiot who doesn't want to understand.

Someone should tell that to whoever hired Kevin McHale and David Kahn.

Also, I don't really see you making any points. You can criticize all you like, but let's see if you can dive into the deep end with the big boys and not drown.

Mauersota
03-17-2010, 12:15 AM
This isn't the first thread on this topic, I don't feel any need to rehash anything.

cwilson21
03-17-2010, 12:15 AM
Someone should tell that to whoever hired Kevin McHale and David Kahn.

Also, I don't really see you making any points. You can criticize all you like, but let's see if you can dive into the deep end with the big boys and not drown.

Which you have proven time and time again that you can't. I love how everybody criticizes the Wolves for not taking Curry. Look at the offense he plays in for Christ's sake. He does whatever he wants in that system. As for the Timberwolves, we run a triangle offense. Big difference between GS and MIN.

Somewaffles
03-17-2010, 12:20 AM
This is one of the most pointless threads on here. If you are going to start a thread bashing another teams GM you have to at least listen to what the faithful fans of the city/state have to say. We (being Minnesota fans) listened to all of the criticism of Mchale (who IMO deserved it in the last 3-4 years of his stay in MN) and Kahn. You can't rip on a guy who stepped into the organization late, and instantly began making moves, good or bad. The fact is, Kahn is tying to make moves Mchale would never have done. This makes fans in Minnesota have faith that in the future the Timberwolves will be relevant again.

Mauersota
03-17-2010, 12:22 AM
So taking the player with the most potential is important for us? Potentials definition is "capable of being or becoming" I didn't realize a rookie becomes all he ever will be before his rookie season is over.

mightybosstone
03-17-2010, 12:29 AM
MBT. You're soley evaluating the Flynn pick on production this year. You do see how incredibly flawed that is, don't you?
This is why I always liked you. THIS is a legitimate argument. However, to counter that argument I think all signs point to Curry having a far more successful career than Flynn. Look at the talent on Minnesota's team. There is NO REASON why he shouldn't shine as a rookie on a team with little to no back court talent. Sorry if 14 points, 4 assists, a .420 shooting percentage and a poor assist/turnover ratio doesn't impress me. And what really bothers me? His numbers in November and December are significantly better than his numbers in February and March. Curry, on the other hand, has improved exactly how you want to see a rookie improve. His numbers in March?

21.8 points, 7.3 assists, 4.3 rebounds, 1.8 steals, an AS/TO ratio over 2.0, and shooting percentages of .460, .490 and .950

AND he does this on a team with Monta Ellis, so it would be very easy for him to not shine in that back court. If anything, though, he's easily outplayed Ellis and proved that the Warriors should build completely around Curry.


Look, I'm not saying Flynn is better than those guys, and I'm not saying he's not. But it's their rookie year. It's way to early to say, Flynn was clearly the wrong choice for this rebuilding franchise.
Things could work for Minnesota still, and Flynn could end up being a really good point guard. I'm not denying that. BUT, Curry will be a very special player and I think a year or two down the line, they'll be kicking themselves for not taking Curry just like they kick themselves for not taking Roy.


And why can't he still move Rubio for something valuable? You think teams no longer desire him? That all of the sudden because he's 19, he's no longer a valuable asset? He's still a valuable trading chip, or a talented player to add to their roster.
He does have value, but I don't think you draft the #5 player in the entire draft (and arguably the one with the highest upside) and hold on to him for an entire season because you think he has value. If you think his value has gone up then maybe you can make that argument, but has it gone up? Or does he have the same exact value now and they've basically just wasted a year of Rubio's career and one year they could have had a better team?

brandonwarne52
03-17-2010, 12:30 AM
Do you ever wonder if Foye would have been a better player, and that it wasn't that Roy was that much better but that he went to a place that suited him better?

Mauersota
03-17-2010, 12:33 AM
You say Flynn has no talent then go on to complain about his assist, don't ya think they go hand in hand.

I'm done I don't like debating with people that think they know what the situation is when they don't.

topdog
03-17-2010, 12:34 AM
Someone should tell that to whoever hired Kevin McHale and David Kahn.

Also, I don't really see you making any points. You can criticize all you like, but let's see if you can dive into the deep end with the big boys and not drown.

If you really knew your stuff, you'd know that "someone" is Glenn Taylor, big boy. lol

What points are there left to make? People keep making these stupid threads not knowing what they are talking about and want to assume their speculation to be facts. For instance, Sessions was not a part of the picture until Rubio decided not to come. And why did 4 other teams pass on Rubio? Were Thabeet and Harden really better or were there indications Rubio wasn't entirely decided hmm?

mightybosstone
03-17-2010, 12:35 AM
Which you have proven time and time again that you can't. I love how everybody criticizes the Wolves for not taking Curry. Look at the offense he plays in for Christ's sake. He does whatever he wants in that system. As for the Timberwolves, we run a triangle offense. Big difference between GS and MIN.

This is a horrible argument. You can't just use the "he plays in Golden State, therefore his stats are inflated argument." There's ABSOLUTELY NO EVIDENCE to back that up! Did you watch the Lakers game last night? It was obvious that the rest of the Golden State team was complete garbage and Curry was single handedly keeping them in the game.

He does whatever he wants, not because of the offense that he's in, but because he's so talented. You don't shoot .461, .424 and .884 as a rookie because of the offense that you're in. You do it because you have an amazing jump shot and you can create your own shot.

I'm so sick of that same old tired argument against players like Curry and Nash because they play in uptempo offenses. If you're gonna bring that weak **** in here, don't bother...

OaklandsFinest
03-17-2010, 12:38 AM
lol David Kahn.... ROFLMAO! You have 3 first round picks.... and you take.... wait for it.... 3 point guards and you trade possibly the best one? Look what David Kahn should have done, was take one of those top picks and trade it with Kevin Love for the 1 st pick and take Blake Griffin number one over all. If the Clips wouldn't go for it then they should have taken Flynn (if thats the guard they wanted) and drafted DeRozen. Infinite options were there and they sucked sooooo bad. As for where to go now.... They should have traded Rubio as soon as they drafted him, now his stock is not there. Maybe they can work out a sign and trade for Bosh if they package Love and Rubio with something else on top of that but I don't see that happening. If they get the number 2 pick then they can draft Turner and make a pretty promising starting line up

HOZ THE KNICK
03-17-2010, 12:40 AM
if the wolves get the 1st pick in the draft how can they not take wall is the problem.

mightybosstone
03-17-2010, 12:42 AM
Do you ever wonder if Foye would have been a better player, and that it wasn't that Roy was that much better but that he went to a place that suited him better?

I've always thought Foye was talented and got screwed being drafted by Minnesota, but I don't think you could make a decent argument for him to be as good as Roy on ANY team. We might never know Foye's true potential, especially with his move to Washington, but I can say with a strong amount of certainty that if Minnesota could go back and redo that draft, they'd take Roy in a heartbeat.

mightybosstone
03-17-2010, 12:55 AM
If you really knew your stuff, you'd know that "someone" is Glenn Taylor, big boy. lol
I'm sorry that I failed to look up the name of your owner. Obviously you know his name, as you are a Wolves fan. Congrats on your victory.


What points are there left to make? People keep making these stupid threads not knowing what they are talking about and want to assume their speculation to be facts. For instance, Sessions was not a part of the picture until Rubio decided not to come.
Good point! Soooo... the Wolves draft two points guards and then trade for another instead of trying to acquire a wing player they desperately needed. Obviously that was the smart move. :facepalm:


And why did 4 other teams pass on Rubio? Were Thabeet and Harden really better or were there indications Rubio wasn't entirely decided hmm?
Let's examine those other 4 teams, shall we?
1. Clippers... have Baron Davis, Blake Griffin was obviously the #1 overall pick. he wasn't going there.
2. Memphis... Conley isn't that bad and teams always reach for 7-footers early in the draft. Thabeet seems like a stupid pick now, but remember when he was dominating defensively in college?
3. Thunder... I think it's more than safe to say that they were set at PG with Russell Westbrook. No way Rubio goes here.
4. Kings... Could of gone here, but Tyreke Evans might have been too good to pass up (and he's proven it this year). Also, being a 6-6 PG is beastly.

And if he WASN'T entirely decided on where he was going to play, why did Minnesota try to take him? That's a horrible argument that only proves my point further!

topdog
03-17-2010, 12:58 AM
This is a horrible argument. You can't just use the "he plays in Golden State, therefore his stats are inflated argument." There's ABSOLUTELY NO EVIDENCE to back that up! Did you watch the Lakers game last night? It was obvious that the rest of the Golden State team was complete garbage and Curry was single handedly keeping them in the game.

I'm so sick of that same old tired argument against players like Curry and Nash because they play in uptempo offenses. If you're gonna bring that weak **** in here, don't bother...

You just made an argument against yourself in the 1st paragraph - Golden State as a team was garbage and Curry was singlehandedly keeping them in it. Rambis and the triangle offense aren't going to allow Flynn to just go it on his own. Fynn would love nothing more than to play pick and roll and go one-on-one but that's not what the triangle calls for and Rambis won't allow it. The system you play in means something, but that does not mean good players don't deserve their stats - they had to put the ball in the hoop and the ball in the right hands. Curry is darn good, but can not equally be compared to Flynn when the conditions are not equal.


I've always thought Foye was talented and got screwed being drafted by Minnesota, but I don't think you could make a decent argument for him to be as good as Roy on ANY team. We might never know Foye's true potential, especially with his move to Washington, but I can say with a strong amount of certainty that if Minnesota could go back and redo that draft, they'd take Roy in a heartbeat.

And everyone forgets how Foye was the early candidate for ROY after summer league. My point being, people make their judgments way too soon.

mightybosstone
03-17-2010, 01:02 AM
For the record, I'm being harsh on Minnesota fans, but that wasn't my original intention. I was trying to describe both my huge man crush on Stephen Curry and my overall hatred for the stupidity of some NBA franchises who clearly don't know what they were doing.

I'll do you all a favor. I'll stop arguing if a SINGLE ONE OF YOU can lay out a legitimately successful plan for the Wolves that will do each of the following:

1. Make them a contender in 3-5 years time.
2. Somehow involve NOT playing Ricky Rubio on their team.
3. Doesn't completely depend on them getting a top 3 pick this season.
4. Will make them more talented on paper than the Rubio, Curry, Love, Jefferson lineup.

Trouble87
03-17-2010, 01:03 AM
didnt read that super long post but I agree with the title of this thread

Chronz
03-17-2010, 01:06 AM
What I dont understand is how a team could hire a guy who plans on running the triangle and NOT draft players to fit the offense. Wouldnt Curry be a much better compliment for the bigs? Isnt Flynn the prototypical PnR PG?

mightybosstone
03-17-2010, 01:09 AM
You just made an argument against yourself in the 1st paragraph - Golden State as a team was garbage and Curry was singlehandedly keeping them in it. Rambis and the triangle offense aren't going to allow Flynn to just go it on his own. Fynn would love nothing more than to play pick and roll and go one-on-one but that's not what the triangle calls for and Rambis won't allow it. The system you play in means something, but that does not mean good players don't deserve their stats - they had to put the ball in the hoop and the ball in the right hands. Curry is darn good, but can not equally be compared to Flynn when the conditions are not equal.
It's not that I don't get your point about the triangle offense, it's that it wouldn't matter. In the perfect conditions, there's no way in hell Flynn could shoot the same percentages Curry shoots. I'm not trying to say that Johnny Flynn isn't good, I'm just saying that he wasn't the right pick after selecting Rubbio at #5, there were better players available and I don't think you'll find anyone in the league who would legitimately say that they think Flynn will ever be as good as Curry.


And everyone forgets how Foye was the early candidate for ROY after summer league. My point being, people make their judgments way too soon.
Wait... did you just say Summer League in a legitimate argument? :rolleyes:

topdog
03-17-2010, 01:11 AM
I'm sorry that I failed to look up the name of your owner. Obviously you know his name, as you are a Wolves fan. Congrats on your victory.
Normally, I wouldn't take this, but wolves need as many wins as we can get... lol



Good point! Soooo... the Wolves draft two points guards and then trade for another instead of trying to acquire a wing player they desperately needed. Obviously that was the smart move. :facepalm:
Just because there is a wing player in the draft doesn't mean you take him. 'Cuz DeRozan is blowing it up in Toronto, right? You don't waste picks to fill a position in the short term when you are a long ways from having a competitive team. You make the right deals, not the impulse deals. You find the wing you want, not the one that is immediately available. And you give Brewer and Ellington a chance to show what they got in the meantime.[/QUOTE]



Let's examine those other 4 teams, shall we?
1. Clippers... have Baron Davis, Blake Griffin was obviously the #1 overall pick. he wasn't going there.
2. Memphis... Conley isn't that bad and teams always reach for 7-footers early in the draft. Thabeet seems like a stupid pick now[, but remember when he was dominating defensively in college?
3. Thunder... I think it's more than safe to say that they were set at PG with Russell Westbrook. No way Rubio goes here.
4. Kings... Could of gone here, but Tyreke Evans might have been too good to pass up (and he's proven it this year). Also, being a 6-6 PG is beastly.

Conley hasn't shown to be stellar and all you guys are saying how great Rubio is so why not take him since Memphis already has Gasol who is better at his position than Conley is at his?

Thunder have a guard, yes, but again if Rubio is so great why not take him and trade him for a pick +? (I already excused the other 2 for reasons that you have stated.


And if he WASN'T entirely decided on where he was going to play, why did Minnesota try to take him? That's a horrible argument that only proves my point further!
Because we can afford to wait and it was an additional pick. It was Washington's pick which we sacrificed little of current consequence to get. It is an argument for drafting a point to fill the 2 years until Rubio's buyout is affordable, at which point we have a team option on Sessions.

Mauersota
03-17-2010, 01:16 AM
What I dont understand is how a team could hire a guy who plans on running the triangle and NOT draft players to fit the offense. Wouldnt Curry be a much better compliment for the bigs? Isnt Flynn the prototypical PnR PG?

This is the one point I will give. Glen Taylor the owner took a bit long to finally pick a GM, so Kahn knowing the importance of the draft put his priority on that instead of finding a coach which was not going to be a quick matter because he had to deal with Kevin McHale which he had to tread lightly on because McHale and Taylor are good friends so he put it off till after the draft. So we drafted without a head coach.

Flynn is a PnR PG which is why he is struggling but even so he is playing pretty decent. Rambis has publicly said he doesn't want Flynn to play to his strengths saying that he wants him to improve his weaknesses, whereas Curry gets to play to all of his strengths.

topdog
03-17-2010, 01:17 AM
It's not that I don't get your point about the triangle offense, it's that it wouldn't matter. In the perfect conditions, there's no way in hell Flynn could shoot the same percentages Curry shoots. I'm not trying to say that Johnny Flynn isn't good, I'm just saying that he wasn't the right pick after selecting Rubbio at #5, there were better players available and I don't think you'll find anyone in the league who would legitimately say that they think Flynn will ever be as good as Curry.


Wait... did you just say Summer League in a legitimate argument? :rolleyes:

So it's all about shooting now? Curry was definitely seen as the better shooter. Flynn's game is driving to the rim. Curry also was a bigger risk in my point of view - he had trouble against more athletic defenders and is skinny and diminutive. Was he going to be another J.J. Reddick? Plus, he said he was a point, not a shooting guard.

It's legitimate when all the sports writers suddenly jump on board and declare Foye (the 6th pick) is the man to beat. It also speaks to the fact that Foye thrived on a team where he was "the man," just like he thrived in 4th quarters when he was "the man."

boeknows
03-17-2010, 01:19 AM
didnt read that super long post but I agree with the title of this thread

Thats amazing that you agree with him since your a Knicks fan.

topdog
03-17-2010, 01:21 AM
This is the one point I will give. Glen Taylor the owner took a bit long to finally pick a GM, so Kahn knowing the importance of the draft put his priority on that instead of finding a coach which was not going to be a quick matter because he had to deal with Kevin McHale which he had to tread lightly on because McHale and Taylor are good friends so he put it off till after the draft. So we drafted without a head coach.

Flynn is a PnR PG which is why he is struggling but even so he is playing pretty decent. Rambis has publicly said he doesn't want Flynn to play to his strengths saying that he wants him to improve his weaknesses, whereas Curry gets to play to all of his strengths.

Exactly.

boeknows
03-17-2010, 01:27 AM
There are a couple points i want to make about some of the comments in this thread.

1. We didnt draft Curry because he said he was going to be a PG in the NBA. At our pro day he was getting pushed around by smaller defenders and couldnt guard anyone at the pro day. Our team was wanting to get better defensively and Curry wasnt going to help in that area.

2. Even if we did draft Curry MBT we wouldnt have a starting 5 of Rubio, Curry, Love, Jefferson and someone else. Mainly because of Curry's contract and being picked at 5 there was no way he could actually come over here and play. He would pretty much be playing for free this year since his buyout was so large and he would have to pay it with his rookie salary.

3. Derozan during our pro day didnt impress anyone. He couldnt guard anyone and he couldnt make a shot. Pretty much the only thing he could do was dunk. And we werent really looking for a guy that couldnt shoot or play defense.

topdog
03-17-2010, 01:31 AM
For the record, I'm being harsh on Minnesota fans, but that wasn't my original intention. I was trying to describe both my huge man crush on Stephen Curry and my overall hatred for the stupidity of some NBA franchises who clearly don't know what they were doing.

I'll do you all a favor. I'll stop arguing if a SINGLE ONE OF YOU can lay out a legitimately successful plan for the Wolves that will do each of the following:

1. Make them a contender in 3-5 years time.
2. Somehow involve NOT playing Ricky Rubio on their team.
3. Doesn't completely depend on them getting a top 3 pick this season.
4. Will make them more talented on paper than the Rubio, Curry, Love, Jefferson lineup.

Lot's of problems with this since we don't know who's willing to trade who for who and who is willing to play where and all of this is subject to your personal opinion as far as plausibility (which is biased).

Also, Kahn has stated Rubio is in the plans in 3-5 years (just not immediately).

One year from now we could have Flynn, Henry (2nd 1st rounder or pick gained through 2nd and 3rd 1st rounder), Gay (overpay him), Love, and Favors (our 1st 1st round pick), or Rubio instead of Flynn in two years. Those are the kind of shooters and athletes that could excel in an uptempo ball-moving offense like Rambis wants to run. Plus, we would still have the ever-improving Brewer (he's got a long streak of games w/ a three made, 2nd to Brooks I think), Ellington, maybe Pekovic and Al or whoever we could trade him for. It'd be like Phoenix North.

D1JM
03-17-2010, 01:31 AM
kinda smart of him to draft point guards last draft because besides wall, who have we heard things about? He can use flynn as a trade chip once rubio comes

MU and UW Fan
03-17-2010, 01:31 AM
Meh, hes no Lawson and he was taken like 16th

Yeah to think Lawson was drafted by Minnesota also and he's been pretty solid for the Nuggets. And didn't the Twolves also draft Brandon Roy and trade him straight up for Randy Foye? Man do the twolves suck at drafting.

mightybosstone
03-17-2010, 01:36 AM
Just because there is a wing player in the draft doesn't mean you take him. 'Cuz DeRozan is blowing it up in Toronto, right? You don't waste picks to fill a position in the short term when you are a long ways from having a competitive team. You make the right deals, not the impulse deals. You find the wing you want, not the one that is immediately available. And you give Brewer and Ellington a chance to show what they got in the meantime.
I like DeRozan, but the point of this entire thread is that they should have taken Curry. Is he a traditional wing? No, he's severely undersized. But look at Ben Gordon, Dwayne Wade and Monta Ellis, all incredibly successful SGs with PG size. I'd like to see him bulk up a bit, but I see him as a better shooting, worse defensive version of Wade in the future.


Conley hasn't shown to be stellar and all you guys are saying how great Rubio is so why not take him since Memphis already has Gasol who is better at his position than Conley is at his?
To be fair, I never liked that pick of Thabeet and I think Rubio would have been a great fit at #2 to Memphis. This is where I would totally rip on the Grizzlies, except they've somehow done the impossible and built a mildly successful team with Zach Randolph on it.


Thunder have a guard, yes, but again if Rubio is so great why not take him and trade him for a pick +?
I think it's because they knew Harden was their guy and if they traded down, Harden would have been gone. The pick seems questionable after one season, but they didn't need Harden to be great initially, and the bigs in this draft (their one real need) were weak. It's not like we can argue with the results. If I could switch teams with any team in the NBA right now, it'd be the Thunder and I wouldn't have to think twice about it.


Because we can afford to wait and it was an additional pick. It was Washington's pick which we sacrificed little of current consequence to get. It is an argument for drafting a point to fill the 2 years until Rubio's buyout is affordable, at which point we have a team option on Sessions.
Can you ever REALLY afford it when your team is in the gutter and you're playing every single season just to get to the next draft lottery? Honestly, in a draft that was weak on bigs but strong on guards, they should have snatched up a PG and a SG that they liked and been done with it. They might actually have a fun team to watch and one that could at least compete on any given night. Instead, they went from the 6th worst record to the 2nd worst record. They had two top 6 picks and somehow got significantly worse!

iFYouSeekAmy
03-17-2010, 01:46 AM
If you're talking about bad management, look at the Warriors

1st playoff run in 15 years.

Warriors Front Office broke up the We Believe Team, and broke apart the playoff run.

We have a HORRIBLE owner (big wishes that Ellison sells the team), a coach that we would want him to achieve his wins so he GETS OUT, we HAD a GM that made the big trade move to achieve Stephen Jackson and Al Harrington, tried offering Baron Davis a contract in his Free Agency BUT THEN he got fired doing so, then the owner hired a GM that promised he'll do big trade moves but ended up doing NOTHING, and we actually have one of the best fans in the NBA and not fans that are bandwagoners.

Meth
03-17-2010, 02:06 AM
If you're talking about bad management, look at the Warriors

1st playoff run in 15 years.

Warriors Front Office broke up the We Believe Team, and broke apart the playoff run.

We have a HORRIBLE owner (big wishes that Ellison sells the team), a coach that we would want him to achieve his wins so he GETS OUT, we HAD a GM that made the big trade move to achieve Stephen Jackson and Al Harrington, tried offering Baron Davis a contract in his Free Agency BUT THEN he got fired doing so, then the owner hired a GM that promised he'll do big trade moves but ended up doing NOTHING, and we actually have one of the best fans in the NBA and not fans that are bandwagoners.

Ouch.:facepalm::speechless:

mightybosstone
03-17-2010, 02:07 AM
These are really good points that definitely need to be addressed...


1. We didnt draft Curry because he said he was going to be a PG in the NBA. At our pro day he was getting pushed around by smaller defenders and couldnt guard anyone at the pro day. Our team was wanting to get better defensively and Curry wasnt going to help in that area.
Players will say they are the position that people want them to be. If you're 6-3, you'll say you're a PG even if it doesn't fit your play style because successful undersized SGs are few and far between. And he might have struggled on his pro day, but if you watch tape of him, you can see the kind of player he was in college. While I can see why Flynn might seem like a safer pick, I also don't think Flynn is a high risk/high reward type pick.


2. Even if we did draft Curry MBT we wouldnt have a starting 5 of Rubio, Curry, Love, Jefferson and someone else. Mainly because of Curry's contract and being picked at 5 there was no way he could actually come over here and play. He would pretty much be playing for free this year since his buyout was so large and he would have to pay it with his rookie salary.
This is a GREAT argument and a valid point. However, I never said he was necessarily certain to play in his first year, though he's FAR less likely to play now that they've decided Flynn is their guy. If Curry had been drafted, Rubio still might not have come, BUT maybe Rubio sees the talented player that Curry is and decides to come to Minnesota next year. Curry slides over to the 2 and all of a sudden you have a REALLY fun team to watch.


3. Derozan during our pro day didnt impress anyone. He couldnt guard anyone and he couldnt make a shot. Pretty much the only thing he could do was dunk. And we werent really looking for a guy that couldnt shoot or play defense.
I actually wasn't high on Derozan before the draft, and I still think he's got a long ways to go. He probably wont' even pan out to be the player that Flynn will be in the long run. BUT I still think that even a Flynn, Derozan combo is better than a Flynn + Nothing combo.

boeknows
03-17-2010, 02:24 AM
This is a GREAT argument and a valid point. However, I never said he was necessarily certain to play in his first year, though he's FAR less likely to play now that they've decided Flynn is their guy. If Curry had been drafted, Rubio still might not have come, BUT maybe Rubio sees the talented player that Curry is and decides to come to Minnesota next year. Curry slides over to the 2 and all of a sudden you have a REALLY fun team to watch.


I actually wasn't high on Derozan before the draft, and I still think he's got a long ways to go. He probably wont' even pan out to be the player that Flynn will be in the long run. BUT I still think that even a Flynn, Derozan combo is better than a Flynn + Nothing combo.

And what if Rubio sees Curry playing the PG spot and gets pissed at that. Its pretty much the same thing with Flynn except that you think Curry can easily play the SG position.

Id rather have a Flynn/Brewer/Ellington combo with a chance at another good player this next year rather than a Flynn/Derozan.

Hawkeye15
03-17-2010, 02:43 AM
I dont even feel the need to respond to this thread in the Wolves defense. New GM, no point guards after Wall this year, guess who gets to deal with the wolves for PGs. Money, picks, great contracts, whatever. If anyone would like to be educated on the new Wolves regime, and that includes you Chronz, who loves to crap on Kahn because he wouldn't entertain a McGrady deal without growing the young team since TMac is of no benefit to a young team, then ask away, and I will let you know. Its ridiculous that Kahn is being questioned this early into his job after inheriting a fked up franchise.

Hawkeye15
03-17-2010, 02:44 AM
value is a word that many of you will never understand.

topdog
03-17-2010, 12:34 PM
I like DeRozan, but the point of this entire thread is that they should have taken Curry.

Really, because reading the title and the initial post, the point of the thread seems to be to bash Kahn.


To be fair, I never liked that pick of Thabeet and I think Rubio would have been a great fit at #2 to Memphis. This is where I would totally rip on the Grizzlies, except they've somehow done the impossible and built a mildly successful team with Zach Randolph on it.
You're getting flaky. I mean in the post I was responding to you were just saying that it made perfect sense for the 4 teams that passed on Rubio to do so. Now you admit that Memphis should have taken him. I will remind everyone though that Rubio was didn't want to go to the Grizz becuase of the JCNavarro "trauma," but they still had plenty of offers pre-draft to get Thabeet or whoever and additional value or something better for the pick.



I think it's because they knew Harden was their guy and if they traded down, Harden would have been gone. The pick seems questionable after one season, but they didn't need Harden to be great initially, and the bigs in this draft (their one real need) were weak. It's not like we can argue with the results. If I could switch teams with any team in the NBA right now, it'd be the Thunder and I wouldn't have to think twice about it.

Double standard here. We have to wait on the Harden pick because he doesn't need to be great initially? The bigs were weak, yeah, but so were the shooting guards. Why don't we wait on Flynn? The wolves don't need him to be great yet because they don't have a full core set of players. They didn't get the #2 pick in an amazing 2-pick draft.



Can you ever REALLY afford it when your team is in the gutter and you're playing every single season just to get to the next draft lottery? Honestly, in a draft that was weak on bigs but strong on guards, they should have snatched up a PG and a SG that they liked and been done with it. They might actually have a fun team to watch and one that could at least compete on any given night. Instead, they went from the 6th worst record to the 2nd worst record. They had two top 6 picks and somehow got significantly worse!

The draft was strong on Point Guards. As far as wings there was: Evans (gone at 2), Harden (gone at 3), Curry, DeRozan, Daye, Ellington, and Buddinger. Am I missing anybody?

We picked up Ellington because he actually fit what we wanted and didn't cost a high pick. Personally, I would have liked Daye but he would have been a reach.

There was no one to draft at any position aside from PG. If you really want to build a solid team like the Thunder or the Blazers have done, you need to be careful with who you pick and not rush into picks because you need something. That's how players like Olawakandi become the top pick - because teams need a center and go drafting for one.

At the end of the day, you guys are bashing Kahn because he made a great move. If he hadn't swiped away the #5 pick from Washington, we wouldn't be talking about this. Though I suspect Rubio would still be in Spain this year.

brandonwarne52
03-17-2010, 12:38 PM
So does Rubio come over if Memphis picks him?

Tony_Starks
03-17-2010, 01:27 PM
value is a word that many of you will never understand.


I believe a fair question would be would you rather have future value or instant production? I think alot of people would go with the instant production. Rubio's future "value," even as a trading chip, is still yet to be determined....

brandonwarne52
03-17-2010, 01:30 PM
I'll take sustained production rather than instant. Why would an awful team want players who can have their growth stunted by the players around them?

Tony_Starks
03-17-2010, 01:39 PM
I'll take sustained production rather than instant. Why would an awful team want players who can have their growth stunted by the players around them?



Are you referring to Curry? Listen if his growth hasn't been stunted by Monta pound the ball never saw a shot he didn't like Ellis then it never will be!

The_Pharouh
03-17-2010, 03:55 PM
He has been a GM for less than a year
can we give him sometime?

Raoul Duke
03-17-2010, 04:28 PM
Of all the franchises in the NBA, it's hard to find a team to feel worse for than the Minnesota Timberwolves. Almost a decade of disappointment for KG and 15 years of failed moves by Kevin McHale (who gives Isaiah Thomas a run for his money as worst GM of the decade) and it almost seemed like this franchise had no hope whatsoever. Then they did something that was long overdue... fired McHale and hired new GM David Kahn.

With two picks in the 2009 draft, Al Jefferson and Kevin Love, things were looking up for the Wolves. Then Kahn drafted Ricky Rubio and it looked like the Wolves were a wing scorer away from having a brilliant future team and they draft....... Johnny Flynn?

I realize that this has been talked about a million times, and I think Bill Simmons has probably written at least a dozen rants on it at this point, but I felt like examining it once more just to try and understand the complete stupidity of it. Why reexamine it? Because Stephen Curry had another amazing game tonight and almost single handedly kept the Warriors in a game they had no business winning.

Imagine an alternate reality where the basketball gods don't hate the T-Wolves. With the 6th pick the Minnesota Timberwolves select..... Stephen Curry from Davidson! Play Curry as an undersized 2 (which should fit his game just fine) and Rubio now has no competition in Minnesota. While I can't blame him for not wanting to play there, he'd have an immensely talented team and maybe he decides to play in Minnesota instead of opting to stay overseas.

We'd get Rubio in the NBA at least one season earlier and he'd be playing next to the most talented rookie in the draft. All of a sudden, Minnesota is a contender and Curry isn't wasted on a team that already has a mirror image of himself (Monta Ellis) and is run almost as poorly as the Wolves are.

To clarify, I'm not a Wolves fan, I'm a Rockets' fan, but I'm a fan of good basketball. I love watching teams like the Thunder play and think about how many great years of basketball I'll get to see from them. Then I look at teams like Minnesota and Golden State who are potentially going nowhere as idiot GMs bury themselves with horrible draft picks and miserable contracts, and I'm sad. It's bad for the NBA and it's bad for fans, whether you like the team or not.

Maybe Minnesota will get lucky and Rubio will come to the states and become the transcendent player he's capable of. (Flynn's all right, but Rubio's potential is monumental.) Maybe they get lucky again and snag someone like Evan Turner in the draft and they still turn out to be a phenomenal team in the future. But you know what? I still hate David Kahn because that's one fewer terrible team we could have had in the NBA one year earlier. It's one more year we could have had of Ricky Rubio. And it's one more talented duo we could have seen, but we'll always have to ask ourselves "what if"?

On second thought, even if Minnesota gets the first pick next year, Kahn will probably screw that up, too. With the first pick in the 2010 NBA Draft, the Minnesota Timberwolves select.... John Wall!

Great post.

And don't forget that Kahn also spent a chunk of his FA money on Sessions. The guy has a serious hard-on for point guards I guess.

I really think Minny screwed the pooch completely in that draft. I don't think Rubio ever had any intention of coming over to play with the wolves, regardless of who his competition was.

topdog
03-17-2010, 04:48 PM
Great post.

And don't forget that Kahn also spent a chunk of his FA moneyon Sessions. The guy has a serious hard-on for point guards I guess.
I really think Minny screwed the pooch completely in that draft. I don't think Rubio ever had any intention of coming over to play with the wolves, regardless of who his competition was.

Yeah all of 4 million dollars.

You are the epitomy of every uninformed speculative dumbass in these forums. Congratulations.

Chronz
03-17-2010, 06:44 PM
I dont even feel the need to respond to this thread in the Wolves defense. New GM, no point guards after Wall this year, guess who gets to deal with the wolves for PGs. Money, picks, great contracts, whatever. If anyone would like to be educated on the new Wolves regime, and that includes you Chronz, who loves to crap on Kahn because he wouldn't entertain a McGrady deal without growing the young team since TMac is of no benefit to a young team, then ask away, and I will let you know. Its ridiculous that Kahn is being questioned this early into his job after inheriting a fked up franchise.
lol the idea that the Rockets would have to GIVE UP assets to get a team to acquire Tmac is why he was a fool. Please educate me, seeing as how the Rox ended up with exactly what I said they would I dont see what excuse you could come up with.

Tmac is of extreme benefit to ANY club. I can understand passing on Mac, but to say Morey should have to give up an asset to get him to agree was all I was mocking him for.

brandonwarne52
03-17-2010, 06:47 PM
He is? At that salary? Aren't his legs allegedly shot?

Chronz
03-17-2010, 06:49 PM
He is? At that salary? Aren't his legs allegedly shot?
Its BECAUSE of that salary that he is of benefit.

brandonwarne52
03-17-2010, 06:51 PM
Yeah, if you're willing to pay him in the meantime.

mightybosstone
03-17-2010, 07:00 PM
Yeah all of 4 million dollars. You are the epitomy of every uninformed speculative dumbass in these forums. Congratulations.

Honestly, you should be kicked off these forums for an ignorant post like this. First off, the guy made a legitimate point about Kahn's obvious love for point guards. He drafted 3 point guards and then picked another one up in free agency. I don't care what your argument of "value" is.

Also you spelled "epitome" wrong. If you're going to use big words, at least spell them correctly...

thesparky33
03-17-2010, 07:26 PM
This thread is hilarious.

I want to bookmark this thread, and respond after the offseason. I am not saying that Kahn will turn things around for the team, but I think seeing him work 2 offseasons in a row would give a better understanding of what he's trying to do, and be a better sample to evaluate on how well he is at his job.

brandonwarne52
03-17-2010, 07:28 PM
Honestly, you should be kicked off these forums for an ignorant post like this. First off, the guy made a legitimate point about Kahn's obvious love for point guards. He drafted 3 point guards and then picked another one up in free agency. I don't care what your argument of "value" is.

Also you spelled "epitome" wrong. If you're going to use big words, at least spell them correctly...

How many point guards are on the Timberwolves active roster right now?

Hint: More than 1, but less than 3.

WSU Tony
03-17-2010, 09:15 PM
Great post.

And don't forget that Kahn also spent a chunk of his FA money on Sessions. The guy has a serious hard-on for point guards I guess.

I really think Minny screwed the pooch completely in that draft. I don't think Rubio ever had any intention of coming over to play with the wolves, regardless of who his competition was.

If you had to keep the players you drafted, then yes, the Wolves would be screwed. Since you CAN trade players, why not draft the most valuable ones?


Honestly, you should be kicked off these forums for an ignorant post like this. First off, the guy made a legitimate point about Kahn's obvious love for point guards. He drafted 3 point guards and then picked another one up in free agency. I don't care what your argument of "value" is.

Also you spelled "epitome" wrong. If you're going to use big words, at least spell them correctly...

:facepalm:

WSU Tony
03-17-2010, 09:16 PM
Why do I hang out in the NBA section? This section seems to lack some sophistication of the MLB section.

Chronz
03-17-2010, 09:22 PM
Yeah, if you're willing to pay him in the meantime.
In order to trade for Tmac it would mean you had to give up EQUAL salary to get him, and actually if the Twolves wanted to be frugal they could have traded for Tmac and not have him play, his insurance was covering the team for every game he didnt play.

WSUJJ
03-17-2010, 09:43 PM
When we got a star in the Free Agency next year, and have a solid team
yall can go suck it


While me and Tony will be sharing a beer

Twinsfan24
03-17-2010, 09:49 PM
Man this is probably the dumbest thread ever. Kahn is a genius, we have more flexibility than we ever have. Rubio is probably never gonna play here so what WE OWN HIS RIGHTS so now if you want him you have to give us what we want. Explain to me how thats being an idiot?? Second ya he wouldnt trade for T-mac unless he got more value in return tell me how thats bad what GM doesnt want that. He would be an idiot if he didnt and got T-mac who by the way is always injured. Now how many draft picks do we have in this years draft??? I believe we have at least 3 in the first round and who knows how many in the second. Again how is that being an idiot. We have more trade chips than any team in the league. And I saw someone say what are we gonna do a sign and trade for one of the big FA's this summer, which will never happen. Um well if they sign and get traded to us than they have no choice. You clearly know nothing about the wolves and instead start bashing on kahn because you cant understand what he is doing. Stop making ignorant threads unless you have enough facts to back it up. :mad::mad::mad:

WSUJJ
03-17-2010, 09:59 PM
Dis Mighty kid knows nothing

Chronz
03-17-2010, 11:25 PM
Man this is probably the dumbest thread ever. Kahn is a genius, we have more flexibility than we ever have. Rubio is probably never gonna play here so what WE OWN HIS RIGHTS so now if you want him you have to give us what we want. Explain to me how thats being an idiot?? Second ya he wouldnt trade for T-mac unless he got more value in return tell me how thats bad what GM doesnt want that. He would be an idiot if he didnt and got T-mac who by the way is always injured. Now how many draft picks do we have in this years draft??? I believe we have at least 3 in the first round and who knows how many in the second. Again how is that being an idiot. We have more trade chips than any team in the league. And I saw someone say what are we gonna do a sign and trade for one of the big FA's this summer, which will never happen. Um well if they sign and get traded to us than they have no choice. You clearly know nothing about the wolves and instead start bashing on kahn because you cant understand what he is doing. Stop making ignorant threads unless you have enough facts to back it up. :mad::mad::mad:

Kahn is as smart as you are knowledgeable, sign and trades only happen when the player AGREES to being shipped so yes he does have a say in it. Saying the Rox have to give up more assets to get a team to take on Tmac when the EXACT OPPOSITE is what was true isnt smart.

thesparky33
03-17-2010, 11:54 PM
Kahn is as smart as you are knowledgeable, sign and trades only happen when the player AGREES to being shipped so yes he does have a say in it. Saying the Rox have to give up more assets to get a team to take on Tmac when the EXACT OPPOSITE is what was true isnt smart.

But Rubio isnt a free agent... he can only sign with the Timberwolves, unless he is willing to sit out an entire year of professional ball, which will not happen.

So yes, the Wolves do hold the cards in this situation, unless Rubio either gets injured or starts to suck.

PurpleJesus
03-18-2010, 12:16 AM
Honestly, you should be kicked off these forums for an ignorant post like this. First off, the guy made a legitimate point about Kahn's obvious love for point guards. He drafted 3 point guards and then picked another one up in free agency. I don't care what your argument of "value" is.

Also you spelled "epitome" wrong. If you're going to use big words, at least spell them correctly...

He drafted Rubio, then drafted flynn in case rubio did what he did, he then traded away the pick that got lawson before lawson was even taken for another pick this year....during the offseason, the team only had one PG, so he signed a backup.

Wolves drafted 2 PG's. Wolves have 2 PG's on the roster. Wolves own the rights to the best european prospect.

topdog
03-18-2010, 12:17 AM
Honestly, you should be kicked off these forums for an ignorant post like this. First off, the guy made a legitimate point about Kahn's obvious love for point guards. He drafted 3 point guards and then picked another one up in free agency. I don't care what your argument of "value" is.

Also you spelled "epitome" wrong. If you're going to use big words, at least spell them correctly...

A "legitimate point" using sexually implicit language - saying that Kahn gets a boner for pgs. Beyond that, what love? Teams who have any basketball sense carry at least two point guards which is exactly what the wolves have on their roster. Kahn drafted 4 PGs and traded 2 for future picks. He was drafting on behalf of other teams in a draft full of point guards.

I apologize, you are the epitome (I spelled that one just right for you!) of the ignorance in these posts and in making these kind of threads which, as they are presented, are in fact "baiting." I'm glad you know how to spell words because you apparently don't know much about Kahn or the Timberwolves.

Hey, who thinks I should start a thread about how Morey is a dumbass? He didn't even try to get the 5th pick from Washington which could have meant Rubio would be in the NBA this year. Plus, he's built such a mediocre team of misfits that they'll always be stuck in that mediocre middle of the pack "good enough to make the playoffs, but not good enough to compete for a title."

I'm done here. I would say it's my fault for even allowing myself to be drawn into this thread, but that's not true. You're the one explicitly bashing my team's "gm" in the NBA Forum rather than respectfully presenting an argument or opinion that is substantive.

PurpleJesus
03-18-2010, 12:21 AM
people hating on kahn cause they are mad they dont have rubio...just look at the mess he cleaned up in less than a year. He took a team that was over the salary cap to be about 14 million under the cap. He drafted the best european prospect. He has 3 first round picks this year.

foofighter97
03-18-2010, 01:10 AM
So if Kahn drafted Curry instead of Flynn and the T'Wolves had around the same record would you be praising him? The Wolves didn't have a coach at the draft and were taking the best player available. Maybe Curry is better than Flynn now but coming into the draft who would've honestly guessed that? Flynn coming out of Syracuse playing in the Big East putting up big numbers as a very athletic point guard versus a skinny kid out of Davidson who shoots the lights out. And seriously what GM do you judge after not even 1 season. Give Kahn at least this draft and off-season with his head coach before you rip him apart and call him the worst gm ever. He has put the Wolves in a position to bring in some solid players via free agency and we will have another lottery pick.

natelpete
03-18-2010, 01:28 AM
flynn>rubio

rubio needs to get bundled in a trade come draft time.. either way hes gonna be playing with 6ft spaniards for a year or two more

foofighter97
03-18-2010, 01:42 AM
^^ For what though? Another pick? What team is going to give up a good nba player for one who is two years away at least and in an extreme case may never play in the nba. I agree we need to trade him but at this point what are we going to get?

Mplsman
03-18-2010, 01:43 AM
I like curry and will give him the credit he deserves. He is a good point guard for the warriors. But watch those numbers drop down the drain trying to slide him to the 2 like mighty mouse is trying to claim he could so easily do for the wolves. At 6'3 185 curry could not handle the starting 2 position defensively let alone get his shot off on avg of 6'5 + defenders. He would be a 6 man Ben Gordon at best and that's not much of a compliment. His stats would not translate at the 2. Steph dominates the ball at 35+ mpg while monta is out and all of a sudden he's a hero. Now warrior fans are quick to kick their 25ppg star monta to curb. I won't take credit away from what stephs doing b/c he's doing well with the warriors but don't try to claim that Kahn's an idiot simply for not drafting him. Kahn is making some great moves here in MN and we stand by him more than ever. To focus so much energy to rip the twolves and David Kahn just shows a lack of character. Wolves are making noise this off season but the rox... Not so much. 10th seed in west is Garbage. Just a waste of the rockets pick in a pretty tight up and coming draft. Yao is done. Kmart hasn't played a full season since I can remember. Brooks is exciting but that's the only guy I really like on that entire roster, seriously. Rockets as a roster are not a team of the past present or future. Take note on how it's done in the next couple of yrs.

Chronz
03-18-2010, 02:21 AM
But Rubio isnt a free agent... he can only sign with the Timberwolves, unless he is willing to sit out an entire year of professional ball, which will not happen.

So yes, the Wolves do hold the cards in this situation, unless Rubio either gets injured or starts to suck.

Where in my post did I mention Rubio?

Raoul Duke
03-18-2010, 10:45 AM
You are the epitomy of every uninformed speculative dumbass in these forums. Congratulations.

Four million for a guy who never plays, after they just drafted two talented players at the same position. How does knowing that make me uninformed, speculative, or a dumbass?

And it's spelled epitome.

brandonwarne52
03-18-2010, 10:52 AM
As a Twins season ticket holder, I have Twins tickets. As a human, I only have the capacity to sit in one seat.

These tickets are a valuable commodity. Brand new stadium, and whatnot. So....am I an idiot if I have 10 tickets to a single game? No, because I can sell them for dollars on the penny.

Same kind of dynamic here......when it comes down to it, I'll occupy my one seat, and maybe have the GF with me. I'll sell the other ones for face value or for a profit.

So, even though Kahn had his hands on 6 or so different point guards over the offseason, we have only 2 in uniform now. He flipped the others (and honestly who can keep track?) for future financial help, reallocation of his assets, or by breaking down big contracts into small, digestible bites (like Oleksiy Pecherov).

Raoul Duke
03-18-2010, 11:07 AM
As a Twins season ticket holder, I have Twins tickets. As a human, I only have the capacity to sit in one seat.

These tickets are a valuable commodity. Brand new stadium, and whatnot. So....am I an idiot if I have 10 tickets to a single game? No, because I can sell them for dollars on the penny.

Same kind of dynamic here......when it comes down to it, I'll occupy my one seat, and maybe have the GF with me. I'll sell the other ones for face value or for a profit.

So, even though Kahn had his hands on 6 or so different point guards over the offseason, we have only 2 in uniform now. He flipped the others (and honestly who can keep track?) for future financial help, reallocation of his assets, or by breaking down big contracts into small, digestible bites (like Oleksiy Pecherov).

I understand that logic, I just don't think it changes the fact that Rubio is essentially worthless to them until he plays for them or they trade him.

Our GM did arguably the same thing over the last two years (Dumars broke our team up and managed to get a lot of assets, albeit assets that didn't make us a cohesive or competitive unit), and I'm taking the same cautious approach.

Chronz
03-18-2010, 11:10 AM
I definitely dont see anything wrong with drafting all those PG's, but in retrospect hes made the wrong decisions in which ones to keep, and if the rumors about his selection pissing off Rubio are true then I think its an idiotic move, but thats all speculative.

brandonwarne52
03-18-2010, 11:43 AM
I just don't think it changes the fact that Rubio is essentially worthless to them until he plays for them or they trade him.

So money isn't worth something unless it's spent or traded in (like dollars for quarters)?

Novel concept.

Raoul Duke
03-18-2010, 12:03 PM
So money isn't worth something unless it's spent or traded in (like dollars for quarters)?

Novel concept.

So, using a top draft pick on a guy who won't suit up and may not be traded for several years while simultaneously passing on a number of players who looked better for your system and who you could be developing right now next to Al Jefferson and Kevin Love is a great strategy to position your team for future success?

That is a novel concept.

brandonwarne52
03-18-2010, 12:09 PM
No, because ultimately we have to cash in. He won't stay in Europe forever.

And the reports that he doesn't want to be in MN were way overblown; he just can't afford his buyout right now.

Twinsfan24
03-18-2010, 12:21 PM
Kahn is as smart as you are knowledgeable, sign and trades only happen when the player AGREES to being shipped so yes he does have a say in it. Saying the Rox have to give up more assets to get a team to take on Tmac when the EXACT OPPOSITE is what was true isnt smart.

Dont come in here and insult my intelligence. I know exactly what sign and trade means. I typed it wrong, and I meant if they sign and then get traded a month or so later. Highly unlikely. And it was not me saying it, Kahn did it ya he got traded for less but kahn wasnt gonna trade for him without something else in the deal. Just protecting the team in case T-mac is unable to play. I see nothing wrong with that. All that tells me is he really didnt want to trade for him in the first place.

brandonwarne52
03-18-2010, 12:25 PM
Which is exactly right. These are the terms by which we'll trade for T-Mac. No big deal.

smith&wesson
03-18-2010, 12:32 PM
Seriously khan is right up there with my list of horrible GM's isiah thomas, rob babcock, david khan.

I leave kevin mchale out of this because he did have a season or two where he got sprewell and casell to help garnet and minisota went to the wcf's. but other then that one season minisota hasn't been compatative in a long long time. no team should be that bad for that long. you can throw the clippers in there too. i just dont get how they dont eventually become good teams. shoot, throw new york in there too.

but back to the thread. kahns a ****** for real.

brandonwarne52
03-18-2010, 12:55 PM
Careful who you call ****** there, spelling bee reject. Way to include Kahn in your list of bad GM's with Kahn already in it, by the way.

29$JerZ
03-18-2010, 12:58 PM
Only mistake he made was not getting a coach sooner imo

Flynn is a solid Point and will only get better.
But he isn't a Triangle PG so something needs to give :shrug:

Hawkeye15
03-18-2010, 01:00 PM
many of you love to jump Kahn, after 10 months on the job. He inherited a joke. He shed numerous bad deals, and drafted the best international PG. Was Flynn a mistake over Curry, or whomever? We don't know yet. Give Flynn the posession rate and freedom Curry is given, and we may see far different numbers. But none of that matters. You can't turn what McHale did into a winner in 3 months. As for the future, we have a ton of picks, cash, and desireable contracts to move. Plus the best young big man, and best young guard, in Europe. Not sure how this qualifies as stupid.
But, continue to bash him. It doesn't really matter. Wolves fans are happy there is a new regime, and that steps have already been made for our future.

29$JerZ
03-18-2010, 01:02 PM
many of you love to jump Kahn, after 10 months on the job. He inherited a joke. He shed numerous bad deals, and drafted the best international PG. Was Flynn a mistake over Curry, or whomever? We don't know yet. Give Flynn the posession rate and freedom Curry is given, and we may see far different numbers. But none of that matters. You can't turn what McHale did into a winner in 3 months. As for the future, we have a ton of picks, cash, and desireable contracts to move. Plus the best young big man, and best young guard, in Europe. Not sure how this qualifies as stupid.
But, continue to bash him. It doesn't really matter. Wolves fans are happy there is a new regime, and that steps have already been made for our future.

Sounds like Donnie Walsh and he gets bashed on as well in the NY forum.
People will complain/make hollow points until a winning product is on board. I never knew fans who watch the game know 100% what's best for the team in drafting/trading/etc without having dealing with agents who want the best for themselves/client, workouts before drafts,etc

Everyone on PSD should be a GM :)

Hawkeye15
03-18-2010, 01:03 PM
imagine the outcry on how horrible Kahn is if he had passed on Rubio haha. Fact is, he is still an unknown to many, and his evaluation should not be done in 10 months. You have to give a new GM taking over a broken franchise a few years before you throw the evaluation on him.

Hawkeye15
03-18-2010, 01:03 PM
Sounds like Donnie Walsh and he gets bashed on as well in the NY forum.
People will complain/make hollow points until a winning product is on board. I never knew fans who watch the game know 100% what's best for the team in drafting/trading/etc without having dealing with agents who want the best for themselves/client, workouts before drafts,etc

Everyone on PSD should be a GM :)

if PSD ran the league, it would be bankrupt and out of business within 3 years. Please.

29$JerZ
03-18-2010, 01:05 PM
if PSD ran the league, it would be bankrupt and out of business within 3 years. Please.

Why?

All 30 teams can make blockbuster trades and draft who is the right player before they actually play because you can judge someone strictly on their college resume.


Sounds awesome to me

Hawkeye15
03-18-2010, 01:11 PM
Why?

All 30 teams can make blockbuster trades and draft who is the right player before they actually play because you can judge someone strictly on their college resume.


Sounds awesome to me

haha

Iodine
03-18-2010, 01:13 PM
if PSD ran the league.

I just cried more than I know was possible

Chronz
03-18-2010, 04:56 PM
Dont come in here and insult my intelligence. I know exactly what sign and trade means. I typed it wrong, and I meant if they sign and then get traded a month or so later. Highly unlikely. And it was not me saying it, Kahn did it ya he got traded for less but kahn wasnt gonna trade for him without something else in the deal. Just protecting the team in case T-mac is unable to play. I see nothing wrong with that. All that tells me is he really didnt want to trade for him in the first place.
You do realize that isnt allowed, its more than a month and under these circumstances the player falls under BYC rules. Anyways ANY GM could do that, and doesnt differentiate Kahn from anyone. So whats the point in mentioning it? What matters is what hes accomplished.

Protecting the team in case Tmac is unable to play? LOL if hes unable to play then it makes even more sense. Hes a slap get over it, yes he doesnt want to trade for Tmac, who wouldnt want a huge expiring contract that insurance was covering, why do that when you can stick to paying full price for lesser players. If anyone was going to give up ASSETS for the right to take on Tmac it was going to be the other team NOT the Rox. The Twolves had little incentive to trade for Mac I get that, but to make the claims he did then its going too far.

PurpleJesus
03-18-2010, 05:33 PM
Seriously khan is right up there with my list of horrible GM's isiah thomas, rob babcock, david khan.

I leave kevin mchale out of this because he did have a season or two where he got sprewell and casell to help garnet and minisota went to the wcf's. but other then that one season minisota hasn't been compatative in a long long time. no team should be that bad for that long. you can throw the clippers in there too. i just dont get how they dont eventually become good teams. shoot, throw new york in there too.

but back to the thread. kahns a ****** for real.

so what is it that kahn did that makes him a bad GM? give them 14 million in cap space in less than one offseason? get 3 first round picks next year? draft the best european prospect?

ChiSox219
03-18-2010, 05:36 PM
many of you love to jump Kahn, after 10 months on the job. He inherited a joke. He shed numerous bad deals, and drafted the best international PG. Was Flynn a mistake over Curry, or whomever? We don't know yet. Give Flynn the posession rate and freedom Curry is given, and we may see far different numbers. But none of that matters. You can't turn what McHale did into a winner in 3 months. As for the future, we have a ton of picks, cash, and desireable contracts to move. Plus the best young big man, and best young guard, in Europe. Not sure how this qualifies as stupid.
But, continue to bash him. It doesn't really matter. Wolves fans are happy there is a new regime, and that steps have already been made for our future.

Good post

I like what Kahn has down with the T'wolves, they have a bright future and a lot of flexibility.

Miltown34
03-18-2010, 05:50 PM
trading Rubio isn't that easy, he has to be package if they want to trade him, because draft picks value go way down after a year unless the rookie is playing really well. So Rubio wouldn't even be worth a top 8 selection this year. I don't even really like Rubio and think he is over hype but he will be in Minnesota in a couple of years.

Philly Hammer
03-18-2010, 05:50 PM
Minnesowta is a real joke

nycericanguy
03-18-2010, 05:53 PM
He drafted 3 point guards and signed a 4th. And out of the 4 he traded Lawson who has turned out to be the best of the 4... that is just ironic and well...funny.

Hawkeye15
03-18-2010, 05:56 PM
He drafted 3 point guards and signed a 4th. And out of the 4 he traded Lawson who has turned out to be the best of the 4... that is just ironic and well...funny.

you see very short term, don't you?

nycericanguy
03-18-2010, 06:00 PM
you see very short term, don't you?

anyway you look at it that's just BAD, especially when he passed up on Evans AND Curry TWICE. Even Collison at #21 has played better than Flynn.

Hawkeye15
03-18-2010, 06:04 PM
anyway you look at it that's just BAD, especially when he passed up on Evans AND Curry TWICE. Even Collison at #21 has played better than Flynn.

They didn't pass on Evans.
And again, looking at rookie years is a pretty bad indicator for most PG's. Collision was known to be NBA ready with a minimal ceiling. Curry didnt' work out for Minnesota, and did not project as a PG.
Besides, they took Rubio with the intention of him being their future PG. Will he be? Maybe, maybe not. But if he isn't its because a team blew Kahn away with a trade.
Again, those who look at short term only are missing the boat. If rookie year's indicate what kind of player you will be, go ask Utah fan's about Deron Williams.

Hawkeye15
03-18-2010, 06:05 PM
go look at Aaron Brooks stats from his rookie year. They are very, very similar to Flynn's. Just saying

WSU Tony
03-18-2010, 07:17 PM
I'm happy to see intelligent arguments. Some are intelligent, at least.

WSUJJ
03-18-2010, 08:39 PM
It really doesn't matter what Kanh- Haters say, We have a very good chance of making it to the Finals next year.

WSU Tony
03-18-2010, 11:05 PM
:laugh:

foofighter97
03-18-2010, 11:08 PM
Minnesowta is a real joke

Such a joke you can't even spell it.

xxseven72ducexx
03-18-2010, 11:23 PM
yea david kahn should have been fired after he was unsuccessful in getting ricky rubio to come over here...he wasted so much money, time and effort when he knew all along rubio wasnt going to come..IMO rubio shouldnt have been eligible for the draft if he wasnt going to come out for that matter any player from overseas shouldnt be allowed in the draft if they dont plan on coming to play that year...the wolves could be a pretty good team if they drafted jonny flynn and any of the other players taken after him in the draft but that ****** david kahn wasted a lottery pick and kept his team out of playoff contention and into one of the worst teams in the league

avrpatsfan
03-18-2010, 11:33 PM
He got the good end of the KG trade (Jefferson) and drafted Flynn. If Ricky Rubio goes to Minnesota I don't see how he is a bad owner. He also drafted Kevin Love too. They have a prospectful young team. They are still bad but they have a much much better team now than a few years ago. Don't keep hating.

cwilson21
03-18-2010, 11:39 PM
yea david kahn should have been fired after he was unsuccessful in getting ricky rubio to come over here...he wasted so much money, time and effort when he knew all along rubio wasnt going to come..IMO rubio shouldnt have been eligible for the draft if he wasnt going to come out for that matter any player from overseas shouldnt be allowed in the draft if they dont plan on coming to play that year...the wolves could be a pretty good team if they drafted jonny flynn and any of the other players taken after him in the draft but that ****** david kahn wasted a lottery pick and kept his team out of playoff contention and into one of the worst teams in the league

:facepalm:

We're 2-3 years off of even thinking about competing in the West. Maybe if we were in the East it'd be a different story. We were already one of the worst teams in the league hence us having another top 10 pick last year. Kahn has cleared a lot of cap room for Minnesota as well as collecting a number of draft picks and that doesn't even include valuable assets such as Rubio and Pekovic.

Phat Pat 94
03-18-2010, 11:47 PM
oh no. not another wolves thread by someone who has no idea about rubio :(

Chronz
03-19-2010, 02:18 AM
go look at Aaron Brooks stats from his rookie year. They are very, very similar to Flynn's. Just saying

Does Flynn have a masterful stroke and struggle in the paint?

boeknows
03-19-2010, 02:26 AM
He got the good end of the KG trade (Jefferson) and drafted Flynn. If Ricky Rubio goes to Minnesota I don't see how he is a bad owner. He also drafted Kevin Love too. They have a prospectful young team. They are still bad but they have a much much better team now than a few years ago. Don't keep hating.

Kahn didnt draft Love.

Hawkeye15
03-19-2010, 07:41 AM
Does Flynn have a masterful stroke and struggle in the paint?

Brooks wasn't a very good shooter his first year. And the second part, no, Flynn is much stronger, so he can finish in the paint better. But their stats line up very similar. Basically, they both appear to be dynamic scoring guards off the bench for a contender.

FarOutIos
03-19-2010, 08:13 AM
As a kings fan, I think the wolves are on the right track. Rubio is a valuable trading chip, and they have a great shot of getting Evan Turner or Wesley Johnson. Also with their second first round pick, they can get another good big man. They are one of the few teams I see as a contender in a few years.

I am not as impressed with the Rockets as their fans are... I think KMart is a great efficient player, but he was never a leader on the team (and is overpaid). Hill hasn't shown much yet... so if Yao never gets fully healthy, then their team is lacking a star player.

But as with anything, both these teams are a work in process. This draft and FA period will clear up alot of question around the league. Some GMs will look smart and others will not. Here in Sac, there were many questions about Petrie's abilities last year... this year, he is praised.

Only time will tell.

Chronz
03-19-2010, 11:53 AM
Brooks wasn't a very good shooter his first year. And the second part, no, Flynn is much stronger, so he can finish in the paint better. But their stats line up very similar. Basically, they both appear to be dynamic scoring guards off the bench for a contender.
Brooks was a great shooter since college what he lacked was the ability to get shots off in the paint. Brooks displayed NBA range in Oregon, his final year he shot 40% from 3 and took a bunch. Flynn shot 31% his final year and didnt take a whole lot, though he did get to the line alot more. Brooks 3pt% was low because when you play sporadically (12MPG) on a team trying to make some playoff noise, your prone to random variance. With such a low amount of minutes you look at a players confidence and mechanics. Brooks had that for miles since day 1.

Basically it was only a matter of time before Brooks shot started falling with consistent PT and as his shot selection improved, the threat of his shot now sets up his drives. But hes ALWAYS had the confidence and stroke to hit at a decent rate from long2's and 3's.

Flynn doesnt take as many, but yea if he can learn how to shoot then his ceiling is much higher than Brooks, but lets not act if its something Brooks had to learn how to do. He was always a great shooter

Evolution23
03-19-2010, 12:18 PM
It really doesn't matter what Kanh- Haters say, We have a very good chance of making it to the Finals next year.

Finals? really?

Hawkeye15
03-19-2010, 12:18 PM
Brooks was a great shooter since college what he lacked was the ability to get shots off in the paint. Brooks displayed NBA range in Oregon, his final year he shot 40% from 3 and took a bunch. Flynn shot 31% his final year and didnt take a whole lot, though he did get to the line alot more. Brooks 3pt% was low because when you play sporadically (12MPG) on a team trying to make some playoff noise, your prone to random variance. With such a low amount of minutes you look at a players confidence and mechanics. Brooks had that for miles since day 1.

Basically it was only a matter of time before Brooks shot started falling with consistent PT and as his shot selection improved, the threat of his shot now sets up his drives. But hes ALWAYS had the confidence and stroke to hit at a decent rate from long2's and 3's.

Flynn doesnt take as many, but yea if he can learn how to shoot then his ceiling is much higher than Brooks, but lets not act if its something Brooks had to learn how to do. He was always a great shooter


point taken. While their games conflict a bit, my original intention was their numbers line up very similar their first seasons. So those claiming Flynn was a wasted pick, are jumping the gun. He can get in the paint at will, and get a shot off anytime he wants. If he starts getting them to fall, he too will be a dynamic scoring guard with average court vision as Brooks is.
And getting your shot off is pretty vital if you are a shooter, otherwise stick to HORSE contests.

WSUJJ
03-22-2010, 11:19 PM
Me and Tony deserve a beer.

R cool J
03-22-2010, 11:40 PM
To whoever started this thread (too lazy to check) bottom line is...David Kahn is a professional NBA GM...and you're not...hahahahahahaahaha, i think every GM is dumb then since Manu was selected in the second round right?? Look it's the NBA draft, nobody knows how their picks will pan out...they pick based on what they feel will make the team improve...did you ever think that Kahn might have known that Rubio would not play for the wolves, therefore needing to draft Flynn will no doubt would be coming to the NBA...maybe he's using Rubio as bait, who knows...He's the GM and you're not...if He's an idiot for landing a GM job in the pros without no history of playing in the NBA...then i wanna be an idiot too.

avrpatsfan
03-22-2010, 11:49 PM
To whoever started this thread (too lazy to check) bottom line is...David Kahn is a professional NBA GM...and you're not...hahahahahahaahaha, i think every GM is dumb then since Manu was selected in the second round right?? Look it's the NBA draft, nobody knows how their picks will pan out...they pick based on what they feel will make the team improve...did you ever think that Kahn might have known that Rubio would not play for the wolves, therefore needing to draft Flynn will no doubt would be coming to the NBA...maybe he's using Rubio as bait, who knows...He's the GM and you're not...if He's an idiot for landing a GM job in the pros without no history of playing in the NBA...then i wanna be an idiot too.

You're right. He is a decent owner. The Wolves are young team that is rebuilding. Having Love, Jefferson, Flynn, and possibly Rubio as rebuilding blocks sounds pretty good to me.

brandonwarne52
03-23-2010, 12:09 AM
He doesn't own anything....

Wisdom Listens
03-23-2010, 12:27 AM
Leave the Kahn discussion to Wolves fans. You know, people who actually understand the situation.

IndiansFan337
03-23-2010, 12:34 AM
He has made a boatload of questionable decisions thus far. Obviously, it is too early to judge all of his moves. But I do think in the end he is going to get run out of town.

thechom80
03-23-2010, 12:45 AM
Name another GM that inherited such a mess? Of course he's made some questionable decisions. That's his job. He's doing anything and everything he possibly can to get out from the bottom of the pit. A lot of it won't make sense if you don't understand his process and intentions. I echo what Wisdom said a few posts ago. Go ahead and call him an idiot, tell him he's stupid, but I honestly believe we'll be discussing him in a thread that is a complete 180 from this one in a few short years.

The "Kahn-man" has a plan......

Wisdom Listens
03-23-2010, 12:45 AM
He has made a boatload of questionable decisions thus far.

Like what?

boeknows
03-23-2010, 12:49 AM
Like what?

Yeah i was wondering that too. Because it seems like everything he is doing is making sense and he has a plan behind it all.

cwilson21
03-23-2010, 12:52 AM
Also made what could end up being a gem of a trade in exchanging Brian Cardinal for Darko Milicic.

boeknows
03-23-2010, 12:56 AM
Also made what could end up being a gem of a trade in exchanging Brian Cardinal for Darko Milicic.

Yeah as long as we can talk Darko into staying for awhile and trying it with the Wolves.

IndiansFan337
03-23-2010, 01:02 AM
Like what?

Like drafting 3 PG's in last yr's 1st round.

Like drafting a player, in Rubio, who he had no commitment from to come play for his team.

Like passing on Stephen Curry in last yr's draft.

Like hiring a coach who plays arguably their best player, Kevin Love, inconsistent minutes each and every night.

I said he had made questionable decisions. He certainly has. Obviously, it is easy to look back on things & critique someone. And no GM is perfect. But the team still isn't winning. That's the bottom line. They have begun their rebuilding & acquired some young assets. But they need to show improvement in the W category next season in order to take some pressure off Kahn. I will also say that I thought his trade last summer to acquire Washington's 1st round pick was a great move. It's just unfortunate that they couldn't have convinced Rubio to join their team this season. I also liked the acquisition of Darko. There's no pressure on him in Minny, so maybe he can finally begin to show the skills that got him drafted ahead of Carmelo Anthony, Dwyane Wade & Chris Bosh.

thechom80
03-23-2010, 01:02 AM
Darko Milicic.

"Brotha DARKness!!!!"

reemy
03-23-2010, 01:09 AM
leave the kahn discussion to wolves fans. You know, people who actually understand the situation.

+1

Wisdom Listens
03-23-2010, 01:24 AM
Like drafting 3 PG's in last yr's 1st round.

Lawson was traded for a 1st round pick. We only drafted him because we knew the Nuggets wanted him.


Like drafting a player, in Rubio, who he had no commitment from to come play for his team.

Rubio was a risk, but there was no way with all his potential the Wolves could have passed him up. Of course, the best case scenario would be to have him here right now, but he still holds plenty of trade value if he ultimately decides he doesn't want to play for the Wolves. Not a bad move at all.


Like passing on Stephen Curry in last yr's draft.

Hindsight is 20/20. The Wolves were never high on him, believing his skills would not translate well to the NBA. In retrospect, that could be considered the one move Kahn has made that wasn't up to snuff.


Like hiring a coach who plays arguably their best player, Kevin Love, inconsistent minutes each and every night.

It's not like Rambis came with a manual that said "if you hire me, I won't play your best player". I too have a problem with how Love is being used, but that is another discussion. Only time will tell, once he get's some of his own players in here, if Rambis was a good hire or not.

One theory I have is Jefferson will be traded this summer. So playing him over Love is a way to showcase his skill set, and receive the most value in return.