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View Full Version : Are teams to obssesed with hieght.



skinsfan4life80
03-15-2010, 04:58 PM
Nice read about how GM's obsesson with hieght and potential is starting tto hurt the NBA/

http://www.playersvoice.com/nba/a-potential-problem.html

miller74
03-15-2010, 04:59 PM
height

IAmKira
03-15-2010, 05:14 PM
height

is this how all ur 1288 posts look like? :facepalm:

randomness
03-15-2010, 05:20 PM
is this how all ur 1288 posts look like? :facepalm:

1228 posts lol

Anyways, it just shows how most busts are big men.. because of the obsession of height.

asandhu23
03-15-2010, 05:23 PM
we fans are obsessed with height as well. Look at all the Monta - Curry backcourt wont work because they are too short to guard shooting guards talks.

abe_froman
03-15-2010, 05:24 PM
actually think its the opposite,they arent obsessed enough

Tblaze
03-15-2010, 05:24 PM
we fans are obsessed with height as well. Look at all the Monta - Curry backcourt wont work because they are too short to guard shooting guards talks.

Well, it really does bring disadvantages, They'll get posted up by bigger pgs, let alone bigger sgs...

ChiSox219
03-15-2010, 05:25 PM
"webster's dictionary defines..."

Ugh

Just was not a very well thought out or written piece.

Thabeet is already back with the Grizzlies. How can you label a guy a bust when he hasn't even completed his first season?

It may be risky to pick a 7 footer high in the draft but look the payoff is worth the risk: Duncan and Shaq were the major piece of multiple title winners. Andrew Bogut is leading a team of no namers with a rookie PG who can't make a jump shot to the playoffs. Dwight Howard took his team to the Finals almost singlehandedly last year knocking of the favored Cavs.

There's been plenty of established non-7 footers to be drafted high and bust. Look at 2002:

#2 Jay Williams
#3 Mike Dunleavy Jr
#5 Dajuan Wagner

vs

#7 Nene
#9 Amare
#34 Carlos Boozer

kingbrentg
03-15-2010, 05:27 PM
Get more obsessed with wingspan.

Raph12
03-15-2010, 05:36 PM
Height and length really helps if they have talent.

Ie: Pau and Bynum use their height and length to perfection, frustrates slashing offenses in half court play and also a reason why they're among league leaders in offrpg.

But if you have wingspan/athleticism like Dwight, Lebron, Durant, etc... That helps as well.

SteveNash
03-15-2010, 05:59 PM
we fans are obsessed with height as well. Look at all the Monta - Curry backcourt wont work because they are too short to guard shooting guards talks.

Do you think it's working for the 18-47 Warriors?

nuggetsyankees
03-15-2010, 06:03 PM
height is huge lol

TheWatcher34
03-15-2010, 06:17 PM
Pierce out for the season!

are u high?

heathonater
03-15-2010, 06:19 PM
nba gms seem to fall in love with lanky, 6'9 forwards with 7'4 wingspans that have no real position on the court.

TheWatcher34
03-15-2010, 06:19 PM
are u high?

.

skinsfan4life80
03-15-2010, 06:24 PM
20 seven footers drafted in the lottery since 1998 and only 3 of them have even been all stars for the team that drafted them, and only two have taken a team to the playoff Pau and Gasol. The article didnt say Thabet was a bust it says he should have never been drafted 2nd overall. Since when did being called back up from the Dleague become a good sign for the number 2 pick ? Yea Bogut is turning out to be solid..dont know if you know this thought the two guards drafted behind him are 5 times better then him. 20 players drafted and only 3 panningout for the team that drafted is very hard to ingnore.

jimbobjarree
03-15-2010, 06:30 PM
Jazz havnt been obsessed enough and get bullied by bigger/longer teams

I suppose we wouldnt have got Millsap so late without the so called obsession

Kakaroach
03-15-2010, 06:31 PM
No, teams aren't too obsessed with height. Like Jimboby said, just ask the Jazz. Our lack of length keeps us from winning a championship.

And true centers are getting more difficult to find in today's NBA.

skinsfan4life80
03-15-2010, 06:32 PM
Jazz havnt been obsessed enough and get bullied by bigger/longer teams

I suppose we wouldnt have got Millsap so late without the so called obsession

would you have rathered the Jazz draftted Deron Williams are Andrew Bogut ?

skinsfan4life80
03-15-2010, 06:47 PM
yup the Jazz are just one Tabet away from a title or robert swift. Wonder if the thunder wish they had got there hands on Oden instead of Durrant.

Atticus Finch
03-15-2010, 06:51 PM
Its the natural progression of how the draft has gone. Those years where players were jumping from HS to the pros forced teams to start looking at players at an earlier age to gain an edge on the competition. With big men the only way you can truly evaluate their potential is their size and their fundamentals considering they are playing against people much smaller and weaker than they are. You can teach fundamentals and skills, you cant teach height.

skinsfan4life80
03-15-2010, 06:54 PM
Last time the Jazz used a fiirst round pick on some height was 2004 Pavel Podkolzin..7'5 how did that work out?

skinsfan4life80
03-15-2010, 06:59 PM
Its the natural progression of how the draft has gone. Those years where players were jumping from HS to the pros forced teams to start looking at players at an earlier age to gain an edge on the competition. With big men the only way you can truly evaluate their potential is their size and their fundamentals considering they are playing against people much smaller and weaker than they are. You can teach fundamentals and skills, you cant teach height.

Can you name me the last 7 footer who didnt dominat in college that dominated in the NBA ? With your theory that you can teach fundamentals..there should be a long list of them. The hundreds of 7 footers all over the world and they have had some of the best coaching in the world and they do nothing. At the end of the day if you cant play you cant play if you suck and your 7 foot but in high school your going to suck in the NBA your not a bust you just were never good. The word bust should be used for people who dominated at the college level then never panned out in the NBA. Not players who were drafted simply because they were tall.

MacFitz92
03-15-2010, 07:03 PM
There a lot of good guards in the league. There are few big men left. When people see the potential out of some of these big guys coming out of college, they jump on it.

skinsfan4life80
03-15-2010, 07:13 PM
There a lot of good guards in the league. There are few big men left. When people see the potential out of some of these big guys coming out of college, they jump on it.


Yes i agree it is very hard to find a good big man but that doesnt mean every 7 footer who avg 6 points a game in whatever league you are in should be lottery. The theory of you dont want to miss on the next Tim Duncan is just stupied. Duncan avg 20 and 10 in the acc. Shaq dominated..Hakeem Dominated..good players are good player. Drafting a guy who couldnt avg a double double when he was 6 inchs taller then anyone he played then acting shocked that he cant even play at the NBA level is getting old. Height is great but it doesnt mean you should ignore if they have any talent or not. Looking at Oden and Durant coming out of college it was joke to debate who will be better in the NBA..

superkegger
03-15-2010, 07:26 PM
You can't teach size.

You can work hard at defense or your shot and get better at it.

You can't work hard at getting taller.

ChiSox219
03-15-2010, 07:28 PM
20 seven footers drafted in the lottery since 1998 and only 3 of them have even been all stars for the team that drafted them, and only two have taken a team to the playoff Pau and Gasol. The article didnt say Thabet was a bust it says he should have never been drafted 2nd overall. Since when did being called back up from the Dleague become a good sign for the number 2 pick ? Yea Bogut is turning out to be solid..dont know if you know this thought the two guards drafted behind him are 5 times better then him. 20 players drafted and only 3 panningout for the team that drafted is very hard to ingnore.

Joel Przybilla drafted in 2000, one of the top defenders in the NBA only one player better picked after him: Michael Redd in the 2nd round.

->Picked before him: Darius Miles, Demarr Johnson both "smalls" out of the NBA

In 2001 there was Gasol, but Tyson Chandler also played a key role in a #2 ranked Bulls defense that went to the playoffs and later a big piece of the Hornets team that made the playoffs twice. Not a an all-star but he's proven to be able to play in the league unlike fellow lottery picks Kendrick Brown and Rodney White.

2002 Yao

2003 Chris Kaman is an all-star and his team has made the playoffs.

2004 Dwight

2005 Bogut isn't an all-star yet but should've been this year and will in due time. His team is also headed for the playoffs.

Andrew Bynum has a ring and could've been an all-star this year, again only a matter of time.

Yaroslav Korolev was also a lottery pick in that draft




Now we get to the point where their are few all-stars because the drafts are so recent.

2006 Bargnani has shown he can play and may not be an all-star but he's close. Raptors are headed to the playoffs with him as their second best player



Yi, Oden, Hawes, Lopez, and Thabeet have been draft within the last three years. During that time, we've seen three "non-7 footers" make the all-star team: Durant (6'10), Rose (6'3), and Horford (6'10)


So let's break it down:

5 of the 20 haven't played more than three years in the league.

Of the remaining 15:

4 have been all-stars and led teams to the playoffs

2 have played at an all-star level and given time are likely to make the squad

3 have shown they can and do start for contending NBA teams

So that leaves us with Patrick O'Bryant, Darko, Nikoloz Tskitishvili, Eddy Curry, DeSagana Diop, Chris Mihm, Aleksandar Radojević

Now I guess that's add up 21, so maybe someone I posted is listed at 6'11"



Take a look at all the non-7 footers and I bet their success rate is even less because there haven a ton of PGs, wings, and tweeners that didn't make it in the NBA.

Mr.WhiteSox
03-15-2010, 07:33 PM
height dumbass

smith&wesson
03-15-2010, 07:43 PM
Get more obsessed with wingspan.


agreed!

ChiSox219
03-15-2010, 07:43 PM
From the article


Thanks to being drafted so high, Thabeet was quickly labeled a bust, and seen as an isolated incident.

Labeled by whom? Not anyone with an understanding of the NBA.


2001, every NBA scout in the country flocked to Brunswick, Georgia to see a High School kid named Kwame Brown play. All the scouts were blown away with the 18 year old kid who stood 7 feet tall with the body of a 25 year old man.

Can you show me the site that has him listed at 7 feet? All the major networks I checked (NBA, ESPN, B-R_ have him listed at 6'11. If you want to include 6'11 players, there were a lot more drafted than 20 and more than a few all-stars. And then why not include 6'10 because there are a bunch of guys who are 6'10 but have the wingspan and leaping ability to play as tall, if not taller than a 7 footer.


The majority of them turned out to be projects that never panned out because scouts were to in awe

Don't like to point out grammar but since this is a published article that I said was poorly written, i need to by myself up.

Atticus Finch
03-15-2010, 07:45 PM
Can you name me the last 7 footer who didnt dominat in college that dominated in the NBA ?

Yeah, Dwight Howard.

Can you name me the last 7 footer who dominated college and didnt dominate the NBA? There's a lot of those guys going around lately.

Of the top 10 scoring listed centers in the NBA, 5 went to college (Lopez, Kaman, Lee, Horford, Bogut) and 5 came from HS or international (Howard, Jefferson, Bargnani, Bynum, Marc Gasol). Dont forget about Yao, Pau, KG, Jermaine O'Neal, Kendrick Perkins, and Nene (Im sure I left some out), as all of them are 7 footers or listed centers who didnt go to college.

The value of height in the NBA is so high teams are willing to take bigger risks in the draft in hopes they can obtain a quality big man. Again, to be a dominant big man in the NBA you need size and skill. You can teach a 7 footer how to block shots and rebound, but you cant teach a 6'9" player how to be 7 feet tall.

skinsfan4life80
03-15-2010, 07:49 PM
Darius Miles and Dermarr Johnson are prime examples of height obsesson

skinsfan4life80
03-15-2010, 07:51 PM
Yeah, Dwight Howard.

Can you name me the last 7 footer who dominated college and didnt dominate the NBA? There's a lot of those guys going around lately.

Of the top 10 scoring listed centers in the NBA, 5 went to college (Lopez, Kaman, Lee, Horford, Bogut) and 5 came from HS or international (Howard, Jefferson, Bargnani, Bynum, Marc Gasol). Dont forget about Yao, Pau, KG, Jermaine O'Neal, Kendrick Perkins, and Nene (Im sure I left some out), as all of them are 7 footers or listed centers who didnt go to college.

The value of height in the NBA is so high teams are willing to take bigger risks in the draft in hopes they can obtain a quality big man. Again, to be a dominant big man in the NBA you need size and skill. You can teach a 7 footer how to block shots and rebound, but you cant teach a 6'9" player how to be 7 feet tall.

Dwight Howard and all those other players dominated where they came from witch is the point. Why draft someone who avg 7 points a game in another country? why draft a guy who had 0 moves in college.

nuggetsyankees
03-15-2010, 08:03 PM
I think some teams just need better scouts

Atticus Finch
03-15-2010, 08:04 PM
Dwight Howard and all those other players dominated where they came from witch is the point. Why draft someone who avg 7 points a game in another country? why draft a guy who had 0 moves in college.

I dominated the first graders I played against last week, can I play in the NBA too?

Dwight Howard dominating in high school really means nothing considering he was playing against kids. If he was a 6'8" center in high school that dominated with identical numbers do you think he gets drafted straight out of high school? Not a chance. The difference? Just a few inches.

Kwame Brown may have the worst skills in the NBA, but hes still more serviceable than many guards simply because he is a large body who can defend. Height is commodity in the NBA, you can never have too much.

SteveNash
03-16-2010, 01:15 AM
I dominated the first graders I played against last week, can I play in the NBA too?

Dwight Howard dominating in high school really means nothing considering he was playing against kids. If he was a 6'8" center in high school that dominated with identical numbers do you think he gets drafted straight out of high school? Not a chance. The difference? Just a few inches.

Kwame Brown may have the worst skills in the NBA, but hes still more serviceable than many guards simply because he is a large body who can defend. Height is commodity in the NBA, you can never have too much.

Howard was 6'9" coming out of high school.

ChiSox219
03-16-2010, 01:19 AM
Howard was 6'9" coming out of high school.

Without shoes...

SteveNash
03-16-2010, 01:24 AM
Without shoes...

Is height supposed to be measure any other way?

Monstars
03-16-2010, 01:32 AM
This season proved that undersized centers worked just fine. For example, Chuck Hayes and David Lee

ChiSox219
03-16-2010, 01:32 AM
Is height supposed to be measure any other way?

Players heights are listed with shoes and the article is going off of listed height if I'm not mistaken.

FOBolous
03-16-2010, 01:53 AM
you know what they say...you can't teach height

SteveNash
03-16-2010, 01:56 AM
Players heights are listed with shoes and the article is going off of listed height if I'm not mistaken.

Players listed heights are made up all the time. I think GMs pay attention to actual height.

asandhu23
03-16-2010, 02:03 AM
Do you think it's working for the 18-47 Warriors?

injuries

SteveNash
03-16-2010, 02:06 AM
injuries

What do you think their record would be had the team stayed healthy?

asandhu23
03-16-2010, 02:20 AM
What do you think their record would be had the team stayed healthy?

8th seed playoffs.

SteveNash
03-16-2010, 02:27 AM
8th seed playoffs.

8th in the playoffs is proof that height is overrated?? Not to mention the fact that Monta/Curry are both skinny and that GS has been killed by opposing backcourts.

mightybosstone
03-16-2010, 02:39 AM
8th seed playoffs.

God no. To be the 8th seed, they would need to have won 22 more games. No way a healthy Biedrins, Azubuike and Randolph make them 22 games better. 5 games? Sure. 10 games? Maybe. 22? Not even close. A completely healthy Warriors team for an entire season couldn't even reach .500. That team is constructed horribly...

ChiSox219
03-16-2010, 03:06 AM
Wasn't it Monta Ellis who said their undersized back court wouldn't work?