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View Full Version : Even healthy Oden too slow to have been really good



NortonMang
03-13-2010, 03:31 PM
When he hasn't been injured he's was alway getting into foul trouble because of his obvious lack of quickness and speed. He dominated college boys which had guys who think size is everything salivating, but he'll never be more than the new Dale Davis.

babyshaq87
03-13-2010, 03:46 PM
for what i've seen.. i don't like oden.. and yes, he is too slow! but he has played 82 games in 3 years.. i can't say he won't be a good player!!
all i can say is that he has to work a lot! on his offensive game (because basically he doesn't have one) and how to use his big body!! sometimes i saw him just standing under the basket and "wating".. it's not college basketball where if u are tall and big somehow you can find a way to dominate the game.. (Oden and Thabeet both dominated defensively and look at them now.. it seems they don't know that to do)
i think portland has to wait at least a couple of years to see if oden will be a good player!!

NortonMang
03-13-2010, 03:55 PM
He'll hopefully stay healthy and develop into a allright player. Comparing him to Durant is ridiculous. Durant was always the right choice. He's now in the top five conversation, the MVP conversation, and the HOF conversation. GOAT, we'll have to wait and see. Dude's only 21. Oden's lack of speed doesn't make it in the NBA. It the brutal truth. He's a real good guy but the importance of speed in pro ball can't be overrated.

YoungOne
03-13-2010, 04:20 PM
i think he looked really good this season until his injury.
Look: 11 pts 8.5 boards 2.3 blks 60 % fg%
really good numbers in just about 24 minutes a game, he just has to get down his fouls and he will be a really good big center, which we havent many in the league.

Korman12
03-13-2010, 04:32 PM
You guys really didn't watch him play in college, did you?

Iodine
03-13-2010, 04:32 PM
Please change your password to a bunch of random numbers and log off and never use the forgot my password function

Iodine
03-13-2010, 04:33 PM
You guys really didn't watch him play in college, did you?

That would require them to have effort

TheRazorboy
03-13-2010, 04:37 PM
He'll hopefully stay healthy and develop into a allright player. Comparing him to Durant is ridiculous. Durant was always the right choice. He's now in the top five conversation, the MVP conversation, and the HOF conversation. GOAT, we'll have to wait and see. Dude's only 21. Oden's lack of speed doesn't make it in the NBA. It the brutal truth. He's a real good guy but the importance of speed in pro ball can't be overrated.

Jeez, reaching a little?

NortonMang
03-13-2010, 04:44 PM
You guys really didn't watch him play in college, did you?

I saw Durant play in college. It was obvious then he was a once in a generation player. Oden in college was, like he is now, big (where he could dominate against boys) and slow. Why you think he's always in foul trouble with Blazers? He got limited minutes cause he couldn't keep from fouling as guys continually out quicked him.

THATSALL
03-13-2010, 04:44 PM
:clap: knew from day 1

valade16
03-13-2010, 04:50 PM
He'll hopefully stay healthy and develop into a allright player. Comparing him to Durant is ridiculous. Durant was always the right choice. He's now in the top five conversation, the MVP conversation, and the HOF conversation. GOAT, we'll have to wait and see. Dude's only 21. Oden's lack of speed doesn't make it in the NBA. It the brutal truth. He's a real good guy but the importance of speed in pro ball can't be overrated.

Seriously? When did you start watching basketball, two years ago?

Durant has at least 10 more years of sustained excellence coupled with playoff success to crack the HOF. And I don't even know what he'd have to do to be considered the GOAT...

NortonMang
03-13-2010, 05:14 PM
Seriously? When did you start watching basketball, two years ago?

Durant has at least 10 more years of sustained excellence coupled with playoff success to crack the HOF. And I don't even know what he'd have to do to be considered the GOAT...

Oh, you are so politically correct. I bet you thought Oden was a better choice when the Blazers took him over Durant. You don't know the game, but attack my credentials instead. I've been watching the game since before John Wooden took a Bruin team whose tallest player was six foot five Fred Slaughter to his first NCAA championship in 1964. Wooden taught that speed kill as does a lack thereof. Oden is a tribute to that immutable fact. You got no basketball vision, just politically correct dribble. If, even now you can't see Durant is a lock for the HOF as he is a brilliant scorer and makes a very young team much better through his example and leadership, it's your problem. Thunder are gonna win 50 plus this year. You think someone is giving them those wins? Mediocrity loves mediocrity and is totally threatened by brilliance. But then you know that.

TheRazorboy
03-13-2010, 05:16 PM
Oh, you are so politically correct. I bet you thought Oden was a better choice when the Blazers took him over Durant. You don't know the game, but attack my credentials instead. I've been watching the game since before John Wooden took a Bruin team whose tallest player was six foot five Fred Slaughter to his first NCAA championship in 1964. Wooden taught that speed kill as does a lack thereof. Oden is a tribute to that immutable fact. You got no basketball vision, just politically correct dribble. If, even now you can't see Durant is a lock for the HOF as he is a brilliant scorer and makes a very young team much better through his example and leadership, it's your problem. Thunder are gonna win 50 plus this year. You think someone is giving them those wins? Mediocrity loves mediocrity and is totally threatened by brilliance. But then you know that.

You must love you some you.

valade16
03-13-2010, 05:24 PM
Oh, you are so politically correct. I bet you thought Oden was a better choice when the Blazers took him over Durant. You don't know the game, but attack my credentials instead. I've been watching the game since before John Wooden took a Bruin team whose tallest player was six foot five Fred Slaughter to his first NCAA championship in 1964. Wooden taught that speed kill as does a lack thereof. Oden is a tribute to that immutable fact. You got no basketball vision, just politically correct dribble. If, even now you can't see Durant is a lock for the HOF as he is a brilliant scorer and makes a very young team much better through his example and leadership, it's your problem. Thunder are gonna win 50 plus this year. You think someone is giving them those wins? Mediocrity loves mediocrity and is totally threatened by brilliance. But then you know that.

I'm gonna hold you to that statement. So if he dies tomorrow, he's a LOCK right?:rolleyes:

I didn't mean to get you pissed off (it comes so easy to you, alcoholic maybe?), I was just pointing out saying "Durant is a HOF and possibly the GOAT" is pretty...

What's the word?

Stupid.

-Kobe24-TJ19-
03-13-2010, 05:26 PM
You guys really didn't watch him play in college, did you?

I watched kwame also!

both turned out total busts

valade16
03-13-2010, 05:27 PM
Oh, you are so politically correct. I bet you thought Oden was a better choice when the Blazers took him over Durant. You don't know the game.

Also, If you knew anything about basketball you'd know that it's a smarter decision to take a good big man than a good wing player.

Oden's injuries give you impunity to act like Nostradomus, nevermind you probably were harping that the blazers take Oden during the draft.

I wonder what you'd crowe if Durant was the one with injury problems and Oden was the healthy one?

Your really good playing this game with hindsight...

Kakaroach
03-13-2010, 05:36 PM
I watched kwame also!

both turned out total busts Kwame didn't play in college. He came straight out of high school.

And how is Oden slow? He's quick to the ball and is active around the basket. Just cuz he's injury prone doesn't mean he's some slug.

tonyd3b54
03-13-2010, 05:44 PM
he essentially a rookie big man... and how many rookie bigs do u kno of that dont commit alot of fouls? it has nuthing to do with his speed... one of the best defensive bigs today kendrick perkins is not fast AT ALL... u dont need speed to play good D as a center...

AccUrSeD
03-13-2010, 05:56 PM
Oden is not slow.

for proof compare him to Durant here:
http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-pre-draft-measurements/?page=&year=2007&sort2=DESC&draft=15&pos=0&sort=5


how do you pass up on Greg Oden

The REAL "once in a generation player"

Sure he has been injured pretty much his whole NBA career, but you know what??? He isn't 30 yrs old he is 22...

He will overcome this.


Durant may look like the better player now, and there is a good chance he will have a better career. Durant is more dominant than anyone expected him to be. Oden hasn't really gotten a fair chance to be called a bust yet. I have watched Oden play a LOT he is far from a bust if he can stay healthy. He is strong, quick, and big for a center ....A deadly combination



Give him a ****ing chance.


Portland made the right decision drafting him, if you disagree then you are ******** and obviously had no idea what was going on in the 2007 NBA draft

-Kobe24-TJ19-
03-13-2010, 06:07 PM
Kwame didn't play in college. He came straight out of high school.

And how is Oden slow? He's quick to the ball and is active around the basket. Just cuz he's injury prone doesn't mean he's some slug.

uh my bad

but he was really good

TheRazorboy
03-13-2010, 06:10 PM
Oden is not slow.

for proof compare him to Durant here:
http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-pre-draft-measurements/?page=&year=2007&sort2=DESC&draft=15&pos=0&sort=5


how do you pass up on Greg Oden

The REAL "once in a generation player"

Sure he has been injured pretty much his whole NBA career, but you know what??? He isn't 30 yrs old he is 22...

He will overcome this.


Durant may look like the better player now, and there is a good chance he will have a better career. Durant is more dominate than anyone expected him to be. Oden hasn't really gotten a fair chance to be called a bust yet. I have watched Oden play a LOT he is far from a bust if he can stay healthy. He is strong, quick, and big for a center ....A deadly combination



Give him a ****ing chance.


Portland made the right decision drafting him, if you disagree then you are ******** and obviously had no idea what was going on in the 2007 NBA draft

Dominant.

0nekhmer
03-13-2010, 06:25 PM
Oden is not slow.

for proof compare him to Durant here:
http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-pre-draft-measurements/?page=&year=2007&sort2=DESC&draft=15&pos=0&sort=5


how do you pass up on Greg Oden

The REAL "once in a generation player"

Sure he has been injured pretty much his whole NBA career, but you know what??? He isn't 30 yrs old he is 22...

He will overcome this.


Durant may look like the better player now, and there is a good chance he will have a better career. Durant is more dominate than anyone expected him to be. Oden hasn't really gotten a fair chance to be called a bust yet. I have watched Oden play a LOT he is far from a bust if he can stay healthy. He is strong, quick, and big for a center ....A deadly combination



Give him a ****ing chance.


Portland made the right decision drafting him, if you disagree then you are ******** and obviously had no idea what was going on in the 2007 NBA draft


Wow, these were his stats before the draft? I remember reading about him a year or two before he was drafted. It's hard to get a #1 C Bust..

blackjack_119
03-13-2010, 06:26 PM
The reason "healthy" Greg Oden looked slow was because he was only 12 months removed from micro-fracture surgery which requires 2 years to completely recover from. To say Oden was too slow to dominate in the NBA is stupid. The greatest aspect of Oden's defense was that he was so quick that he could literally wait for a player to shoot before jumping to block it. Someone already pointed out that Oden beat Durant in both the Sprint and Agility drills.

Oden was/is an athletic freak. Look at his pre-draft measurements even in comparison to Dwight Howards. No big man has ever tested out athletically like Oden did. People are so quick to forget this.

Also, he was playing excellent this season before injury. Look at his "per 36" stats:
16.7ppg 12.75reb 3.5blk 61% FG%. Those numbers are extremely good.

alencp3
03-13-2010, 06:43 PM
If Oden stay healty he will be top 3 center

NortonMang
03-13-2010, 07:07 PM
My friend works in the electronics department at kmart. He watches all the sports shows and knows all about sports. He is very smart and will make assistant manager next year and gets good benefits. He says Oden can't hold Durant's gymnasium bag.

valade16
03-13-2010, 07:12 PM
My friend works in the electronics department at kmart. He watches all the sports shows and knows all about sports. He is very smart and will make assistant manager next year and gets good benefits. He says Oden can't hold Durant's gymnasium bag.

What a reputable source. I'm sure this dude was a scout for the Nuggets prior to working at Kmart.

It sounds like you just got hammered in this thread, I'd suggest you find a new one...

NortonMang
03-13-2010, 07:15 PM
Your suggestion has been duly noted along with all the other silly men who refuse to believe their lying eyes. Durant Rules!

IrightI
03-13-2010, 07:18 PM
My friend works in the electronics department at kmart. He watches all the sports shows and knows all about sports. He is very smart and will make assistant manager next year and gets good benefits. He says Oden can't hold Durant's gymnasium bag.

I thought you were being serious until I read this.

ldc62
03-13-2010, 07:50 PM
You guys really didn't watch him play in college, did you?

Yeah he was good in college... but whats ur point? We all know that doesn't always translate to the NBA level.

ldc62
03-13-2010, 07:52 PM
If Oden stay healty he will be top 3 center

Doubt he will be 100%. Also his left leg is longer than his right one... He was playing pretty good the week that he got injured.

NortonMang
03-13-2010, 07:58 PM
I thought you were being serious until I read this.

I'm serious. Just trying to get some guys to lighten up. Between Durant and Oden it's a no brainer, but some guys are stubborn.

ChiSox219
03-13-2010, 08:47 PM
I'm serious. Just trying to get some guys to lighten up. Between Durant and Oden it's a no brainer, but some guys are stubborn.

I'm not big on name calling but you are one ignorant sonuva*****.

All 30 GMs would have taken Oden over Durant.

Oden was a top 5 center until he went down this year. His talent is immense.

Durant is very good but you are wrong to call him top five. Duncan, Lebron, Wade, CP3, Dwight, Melo...

Meth
03-13-2010, 09:16 PM
If it was the opposite (Oden being healthy and rarely injured, and Durant being all-time injured), then I have a feeling opinions will change dramatically, as in Future Center, most dominant player, etc.

Corey
03-13-2010, 09:22 PM
My friend works in the electronics department at kmart. He watches all the sports shows and knows all about sports. He is very smart and will make assistant manager next year and gets good benefits. He says Oden can't hold Durant's gymnasium bag.

:laugh2:

what

NortonMang
03-13-2010, 09:52 PM
I'm not big on name calling but you are one ignorant sonuva*****.

All 30 GMs would have taken Oden over Durant.

Oden was a top 5 center until he went down this year. His talent is immense.

Durant is very good but you are wrong to call him top five. Duncan, Lebron, Wade, CP3, Dwight, Melo...

I get it. To keep from ranking Durant in top five you include cp3. Hey man, you may not have noticed but Durant is in the MVP discussion this year. He probably won't get it THIS YEAR, but how many times has cp3 been included in that kind of talk. You call me names for believing my lying eyes, that's your problem.

xbrackattackx
03-13-2010, 10:18 PM
I'm not big on name calling but you are one ignorant sonuva*****.

All 30 GMs would have taken Oden over Durant.

Oden was a top 5 center until he went down this year. His talent is immense.

Durant is very good but you are wrong to call him top five. Duncan, Lebron, Wade, CP3, Dwight, Melo...

You forgot Kobe. Good Job GM. (And if you try to reply I meant to leave him off then your top 5 is not accurate.)

ChiSox219
03-13-2010, 10:50 PM
You forgot Kobe. Good Job GM. (And if you try to reply I meant to leave him off then your top 5 is not accurate.)

:rolleyes:

valade16
03-13-2010, 10:51 PM
I'm serious. Just trying to get some guys to lighten up. Between Durant and Oden it's a no brainer, but some guys are stubborn.

If that is what your trying to assert then you have a serious communication problem.

Remember, the thread isn't "who's better, Durant or Oden?"

I'm the biggest Blazer fan, but Durant is WAY better than Oden right now...

But that's not the thread, the thread is:

"Oden won't be/isn't good in the pro's because he's slow"

Which isn't true...

masalex1205
03-13-2010, 11:06 PM
He was looking like a great center when he got hurt this season;

He's def. not too slow

masalex1205
03-13-2010, 11:08 PM
My friend works in the electronics department at kmart. He watches all the sports shows and knows all about sports. He is very smart and will make assistant manager next year and gets good benefits. He says Oden can't hold Durant's gymnasium bag.

hahahahahah

Stay_Swim
03-13-2010, 11:36 PM
Oh, you are so politically correct. I bet you thought Oden was a better choice when the Blazers took him over Durant. You don't know the game, but attack my credentials instead. I've been watching the game since before John Wooden took a Bruin team whose tallest player was six foot five Fred Slaughter to his first NCAA championship in 1964. Wooden taught that speed kill as does a lack thereof. Oden is a tribute to that immutable fact. You got no basketball vision, just politically correct dribble. If, even now you can't see Durant is a lock for the HOF as he is a brilliant scorer and makes a very young team much better through his example and leadership, it's your problem. Thunder are gonna win 50 plus this year. You think someone is giving them those wins? Mediocrity loves mediocrity and is totally threatened by brilliance. But then you know that.


Hey I remember the first time I used Wikipedia. This is all I got form that entire spew of ********...:puke:


Now on to the actual point. He is not to slow. He just hasn't had time to adjust fully. Say what you want about him being in the league for 3 years but, he's been hurt a ton. Thats not to say that he cant become a good player. He's a pretty good defender, and could become a very good player. Stop with the calling out of the "I know more about basketball then you do" argument, it reminds me of High School.

In fact your whole argument that being slow in the NBA kills, is a wash as well. There are plenty of players in the NBA that lack elite speed, that doesn't mean their not a great player. Look at Deron Williams. The knock on him coming out of college was that he wasn't that fast nor quick. Now, I think he's made out alright in the NBA. Or what about Jason Kidd and john Stockton, 2 more players not gifted with outrageous speed or quickness and they went on to become arguably two of the best point guards to play the game. Or Dikembe Mutumbo who one scout said "moved like he had cinder blocks in his shoes," He went on to become one of the best defensive centers to ever play the game.

Stop with your BIASED AND FALSE judgments. Especially when you are wrong.

icon1914
03-14-2010, 12:00 AM
I'm not sure I would call Oden slow, too many people expect centers to be as athletic and explosive like Howard and Stat... Oden is, and has always been limited offensively... even in high school his ability to score was constantly brought up. He seems to have tried to work on it, but a lot of his points in college were garbage points.

I always thought that Durant would have been the better pick for Portland, but they were all about the lure of having a legit center. I never saw Oden as anything more than slightly better offensive Mutumbo, but everyone in the NBA felt like he was the second coming.

Bottom line is getting a solid 7 footer always trumps anything other than a sure thing. Thabeet was drafted before Evans this year... And Oden was taken in front of Durant only because of his size and potential. Durant looked great in college, but there is no way of really knowing if that he was going to come out of the gate like he did... Beasley was a beast in college, but is still trying to find his stride in the league.

Like they say, you can't teach height.

Evolution23
03-14-2010, 01:55 AM
Too early to tell...

alencp3
03-14-2010, 04:43 AM
Well,i think everyone forgot that players next season will be scared from him,u know why.

NortonMang
03-14-2010, 01:37 PM
Apart from just watching him plod around in the middle, the biggest clue to Oden being too slow is he's always in foul trouble.

Raph12
03-14-2010, 02:34 PM
He'll be a solid role player, maybe follow into Brendan Haywood's footsteps.

Red Hot Rolllin
03-14-2010, 04:43 PM
He was looking like a great center when he got hurt this season;

He's def. not too slow

It all comes down to rings not scoring titles lets see who gets more Oden or Durant before we close the book.

Oden had similar per minute stats as Howard, I think a little better in most categories before he went down and I think many of you don't realize how much weight he lost in the off season and how quick and powerful he was when he went down and how Portland had the 3rd best win dif in the NBA.

mrblisterdundee
03-14-2010, 05:34 PM
Oden's trouble is not being slow. It's getting into injury and foul trouble. Say what you want about his body, but he has been quite efficient when on the court. He averaged nearly a double double, while only playing half the game. There are many big men that can only pull that off playing at least 30 minutes per game. Being too slow won't be his problem until he's 30. This thread is borderline baiting.

NortonMang
03-14-2010, 07:31 PM
Oden's trouble is not being slow. It's getting into injury and foul trouble. Say what you want about his body, but he has been quite efficient when on the court. He averaged nearly a double double, while only playing half the game. There are many big men that can only pull that off playing at least 30 minutes per game. Being too slow won't be his problem until he's 30. This thread is borderline baiting.

You, like the other fellas that went along with the politically correct draft of Oden over Durant won't ever give it up. So now I'm baiting by pointing out the obviouos.........the dude is slow. That's why he's in foul trouble in just about every game. The difference between high school and college, and college and pros is speed. It's true in football and basketball. I'm sure you have a different explanation for Oden's foul troubles, but like I said, the dudes that were so enamored with Oden, the dudes who couldn't recognize a once in a generation talent in Durant, won't ever give it up. When you consider the mature leadership Durant displays, night in and night out, as the Thunder are about to win 50 plus this year, the constant whining, apologizing, and excuses about Oden is preposterous.

topdog
03-14-2010, 07:52 PM
I don't think anyone ever thought Oden would be the better scorer or anything like that. It's in a lot of ways a question of position: do you go for the solidly built freak of nature who showed some guts and skill (shooting with his left after breaking his right hand) at center or do you go for the dynamic wing? Which is harder to find? No doubt the center.

I'm not saying Oden was the right choice but what he was doing pre-injury this year is pretty darn good for this day's centers especially a young one (we all know it can take awhile for bigs to develop).

ChiSox219
03-14-2010, 08:44 PM
You, like the other fellas that went along with the politically correct draft of Oden over Durant won't ever give it up. So now I'm baiting by pointing out the obviouos.........the dude is slow. That's why he's in foul trouble in just about every game. The difference between high school and college, and college and pros is speed. It's true in football and basketball. I'm sure you have a different explanation for Oden's foul troubles, but like I said, the dudes that were so enamored with Oden, the dudes who couldn't recognize a once in a generation talent in Durant, won't ever give it up. When you consider the mature leadership Durant displays, night in and night out, as the Thunder are about to win 50 plus this year, the constant whining, apologizing, and excuses about Oden is preposterous.

Politically correct? No one was going to offended if it the Blazers chose Durant. Oden was the better NBA prospect because dominant big men are so rare but if a team decided, hey we want to run and gun, maybe Durant goes #1.

As for Oden's foul trouble, his biggest problem is he bites on fakes and tries to block everything. Another difference from college and the pros, is every night in the NBA you are facing veterans with crafty move designed to draw contact. Very few bigs come into the league and avoid foul trouble.

Oden isn't slow, someone already posted the combine time, Oden was faster than Durant in the agility and 3/4 sprint

valade16
03-15-2010, 03:20 AM
You, like the other fellas that went along with the politically correct draft of Oden over Durant won't ever give it up. So now I'm baiting by pointing out the obviouos.........the dude is slow. That's why he's in foul trouble in just about every game. The difference between high school and college, and college and pros is speed. It's true in football and basketball. I'm sure you have a different explanation for Oden's foul troubles, but like I said, the dudes that were so enamored with Oden, the dudes who couldn't recognize a once in a generation talent in Durant, won't ever give it up. When you consider the mature leadership Durant displays, night in and night out, as the Thunder are about to win 50 plus this year, the constant whining, apologizing, and excuses about Oden is preposterous.

What, is that your shtick? You've used it twice now in the wrong context...

If he's so slow why did he run a faster time than Durant during the draft workouts? Why was he able to average 10+ points and 8+ rebounds in around 20 minutes?

Durant about to win 50+? Congrats... The Blazers did that last year bro, your one year behind us...

NortonMang
03-15-2010, 07:43 AM
What, is that your shtick? You've used it twice now in the wrong context...

If he's so slow why did he run a faster time than Durant during the draft workouts? Why was he able to average 10+ points and 8+ rebounds in around 20 minutes?

Durant about to win 50+? Congrats... The Blazers did that last year bro, your one year behind us...

I don't know where you get your information, or whether you just make stuff up. If the word "slow" bothers you then try "quickness." Or in Oden's case lack thereof. You'd do well to watch the games. You think OKC has surrounded Durant with the likes of veteran talent like Aldridge and Roy? Perhaps you didn't notice but the Blazers won all those games last year without Oden. That speaks volumes about their talent level. No one in a million years expected this kind of success this soon from the Thunder, It's attributable to Durant's transcendent ability and leadership. Guys like you anointed the Blazers a dynasty when they drafted Oden as filling in the missing piece on a loaded roster. No one said that about the Thunder. You guys are so bent about having drafted the wrong guy, and too insecure to admit it, that you refuse to see how startling and impressive the Thunder's unexpected run this season actually is. We are witness to a once in a generation talent. You're missing quite a show.

YoungOne
03-15-2010, 08:26 AM
if you take it the way durant is playing now you have to call every draftpick before a nba superstar a bust. Jordan wasnt a first pick kobe neither so based on your theory every player picked before them is a bust just because they were/are the best a their time.
For example Iverson and ray allen were picked before kobe.
Busts? no way!

YoungOne
03-15-2010, 08:29 AM
And adding to that: An Oden will always be picked before a durant because a dominant bigman is a rarity an mostly needed to win a championchip.

$ NyC $
03-15-2010, 08:50 AM
11 ppg almost 9 rpg and 2.3 bpg while shooting 60% in only 24 mpg can't be done by being so slow and such a bust. Like all rookie big men it takes time for they to get use 2 the game avoiding foul trouble. ALL big men pick up a lot of fouls their first year and Oden has had some unfortunate injuries slowing down his progression yet he Still has time to develop and become a double double machine. He was what 2nd or 3rd in the league in bpg in only 24 mpg.

11 pts 8.5 boards 2.3 blks 60 % fg%
really good numbers in just about 24 minutes a game,

ballpd05
03-15-2010, 09:05 AM
Oden will be okay. I mean when you look most of the starting centers around the league I don't see many guys with great quickness and speed or offensive game for that matter.

I mean Dwight Howard, Tyson Chandler, Al Horford, and a few others can move, but lets look at most centers. Camby, Andrew Bogut, Emeka Okafor, Kendrick Perkins, Erik Dampier, Marc Gasol, Brad Miller, Shaq, Ilgauskus, and so on.

His foul trouble doesn't necessarily translate to him being too slow. Maybe uncoordinated, sloppy fundamentals, bad anticipation, or over aggressive. Being out of shape can cause you to foul to much as well because it impairs your ability to play the right way.

NortonMang
03-15-2010, 09:46 AM
The argument that big men take longer to develop is a fantasy argument developed since Oden turned out to be the wrong choice. It's standard, politically correct, but factually incorrect BS. We're talking about the first pick overall, so it's not a stretch to look at the numbers put up by genuine HOF guys in their first years. They had it from the get. Inasmuch as Durant is putting up HOF numbers, and anyone who is honest knows that's where he's headed as premature as such an assessment might be for ordinary guys which Durant clearly is not, Oden has to be compared to other HOF centers before him. So there are two points which you won't address: 1. Would the Thunder win 50 games without Durant as Portland did without Oden? We all know they'd have been lucky to win 35 games without him. That's why some think he ought to be MVP; and 2. The best centers don't take any longer than other positions to develop a pro skill set. Kareem, Shaq, Wilt scored close to 30 pts. and 15 boads right when they entered the league. Now I'll admit Oden has had some good games against, for example, the Brookie Lopez' of the league, but his numbers against decent centers are pretty weak. Look up the box scores for yourself. In that light, Oden's numbers aren't very impressive. Just a whole lot of fouls.



KAREEM
Year Age Team Lg G Min Pts PPG FGM FGA FGP FTM FTA FTP 3PM 3PA 3PP ORB DRB TRB RPG AST APG STL BLK TO PF
1969-70 22 MIL NBA 82 3534 2361 28.8 938 1810 .518 485 743 .653 0 0 .000 0 0 1190 14.5 337 4.1 0 0 0 283 A
1970-71 23 MIL NBA 82 3288 2596 31.7 1063 1843 .577 470 681 .690 0 0 .000 0 0 1311 16.0 272 3.3 0 0 0 264 M N A
1971-72 24 MIL NBA 81 3583 2822 34.8 1159 2019 .574 504 732 .689 0 0 .000 0 0 1346 16.6 370 4.6 0 0 0 235 M N A
1972-73 25 MIL NBA 76 3254 2292 30.2 982 1772 .554 328 460 .713 0 0 .000 0 0 1224 16.1 379 5.0 0 0 0 208 N A

SHAQ


Year Age Team Lg G Min Pts PPG FGM FGA FGP FTM FTA FTP 3PM 3PA 3PP ORB DRB TRB RPG AST APG STL BLK TO PF
1992-93 20 ORL NBA 81 3071 1893 23.4 733 1304 .562 427 721 .592 0 2 .000 342 780 1122 13.9 152 1.9 60 286 307 321 A Log
1993-94 21 ORL NBA 81 3224 2377 29.3 953 1591 .599 471 850 .554 0 2 .000 384 688 1072 13.2 195 2.4 76 231 222 281 A Log
1994-95 22 ORL NBA 79 2923 2315 29.3 930 1594 .583 455 855 .532 0 5 .000 328 573 901 11.4 214 2.7 73 192 204 258 A Log
1995-96 23 ORL NBA 54 1946 1434 26.6 592 1033 .573 249 511 .487 1 2 .500 182 414 596 11.0 155 2.9 34 115 155 193 A L

WILT

Year Age Team Lg G Min Pts PPG FGM FGA FGP FTM FTA FTP 3PM 3PA 3PP ORB DRB TRB RPG AST APG STL BLK TO PF
1959-60 23 PH1 NBA 72 3338 2707 37.6 1065 2311 .461 577 991 .582 0 0 .000 0 0 1941 27.0 168 2.3 0 0 0 150 M N A
1960-61 24 PH1 NBA 79 3773 3033 38.4 1251 2457 .509 531 1054 .504 0 0 .000 0 0 2149 27.2 148 1.9 0 0 0 130 N A
1961-62 25 PH1 NBA 80 3882 4029 50.4 1597 3159 .506 835 1363 .613 0 0 .000 0 0 2052 25.7 192 2.4 0 0 0 123 N A
1962-63 26 SFW NBA 80 3806 3586 44.8 1463 2770 .528 660 1113 .593 0 0 .000 0 0 1946 24.3 275 3.4 0 0 0 136 A
1963-64 27 SFW NBA 80 3689 2948 36.9 1204 2298 .524 540 1016 .531 0 0 .000 0 0 1787 22.3 403 5.0 0 0 0 182 N A

$ NyC $
03-15-2010, 10:08 AM
The argument that big men take longer to develop is a fantasy argument developed since Oden turned out to be the wrong choice. It's standard, politically correct, but factually incorrect BS. We're talking about the first pick overall, so it's not a stretch to look at the numbers put up by genuine HOF guys in their first years. They had it from the get. Inasmuch as Durant is putting up HOF numbers, and anyone who is honest knows that's where he's headed as premature as such an assessment might be for ordinary guys which Durant clearly is not, Oden has to be compared to other HOF centers before him. So there are two points which you won't address: 1. Would the Thunder win 50 games without Durant as Portland did without Oden? We all know they'd have been lucky to win 35 games without him. That's why some think he ought to be MVP; and 2. The best centers don't take any longer than other positions to develop a pro skill set. Kareem, Shaq, Wilt scored close to 30 pts. and 15 boads right when they entered the league. Now I'll admit Oden has had some good games against, for example, the Brookie Lopez' of the league, but his numbers against decent centers are pretty weak. Look up the box scores for yourself. In that light, Oden's numbers aren't very impressive. Just a whole lot of fouls.



KAREEM
Year Age Team Lg G Min Pts PPG FGM FGA FGP FTM FTA FTP 3PM 3PA 3PP ORB DRB TRB RPG AST APG STL BLK TO PF
1969-70 22 MIL NBA 82 3534 2361 28.8 938 1810 .518 485 743 .653 0 0 .000 0 0 1190 14.5 337 4.1 0 0 0 283 A
1970-71 23 MIL NBA 82 3288 2596 31.7 1063 1843 .577 470 681 .690 0 0 .000 0 0 1311 16.0 272 3.3 0 0 0 264 M N A
1971-72 24 MIL NBA 81 3583 2822 34.8 1159 2019 .574 504 732 .689 0 0 .000 0 0 1346 16.6 370 4.6 0 0 0 235 M N A
1972-73 25 MIL NBA 76 3254 2292 30.2 982 1772 .554 328 460 .713 0 0 .000 0 0 1224 16.1 379 5.0 0 0 0 208 N A

SHAQ


Year Age Team Lg G Min Pts PPG FGM FGA FGP FTM FTA FTP 3PM 3PA 3PP ORB DRB TRB RPG AST APG STL BLK TO PF
1992-93 20 ORL NBA 81 3071 1893 23.4 733 1304 .562 427 721 .592 0 2 .000 342 780 1122 13.9 152 1.9 60 286 307 321 A Log
1993-94 21 ORL NBA 81 3224 2377 29.3 953 1591 .599 471 850 .554 0 2 .000 384 688 1072 13.2 195 2.4 76 231 222 281 A Log
1994-95 22 ORL NBA 79 2923 2315 29.3 930 1594 .583 455 855 .532 0 5 .000 328 573 901 11.4 214 2.7 73 192 204 258 A Log
1995-96 23 ORL NBA 54 1946 1434 26.6 592 1033 .573 249 511 .487 1 2 .500 182 414 596 11.0 155 2.9 34 115 155 193 A L

WILT

Year Age Team Lg G Min Pts PPG FGM FGA FGP FTM FTA FTP 3PM 3PA 3PP ORB DRB TRB RPG AST APG STL BLK TO PF
1959-60 23 PH1 NBA 72 3338 2707 37.6 1065 2311 .461 577 991 .582 0 0 .000 0 0 1941 27.0 168 2.3 0 0 0 150 M N A
1960-61 24 PH1 NBA 79 3773 3033 38.4 1251 2457 .509 531 1054 .504 0 0 .000 0 0 2149 27.2 148 1.9 0 0 0 130 N A
1961-62 25 PH1 NBA 80 3882 4029 50.4 1597 3159 .506 835 1363 .613 0 0 .000 0 0 2052 25.7 192 2.4 0 0 0 123 N A
1962-63 26 SFW NBA 80 3806 3586 44.8 1463 2770 .528 660 1113 .593 0 0 .000 0 0 1946 24.3 275 3.4 0 0 0 136 A
1963-64 27 SFW NBA 80 3689 2948 36.9 1204 2298 .524 540 1016 .531 0 0 .000 0 0 1787 22.3 403 5.0 0 0 0 182 N A



Your comparing him to arguably the top 3 centers of all time.

Why don't you compare him to another Center that was taken 1st Overall. Andrew Bogut.

ragee
03-15-2010, 10:17 AM
When was the last time you saw Oden play??? The reason why he gets into foul trouble much is because of the same reason why most centers gets into foul trouble during their first year... They tend to go for all the shots because that was what they were used to when they were in HS or college! Sure, Oden still gets into foul trouble every now and then but before he got injured, he was really playing well and showing some potential to be good... Before you make a thread like this, go watch some games first!

DodgerorLaker?
03-15-2010, 10:19 AM
he essentially a rookie big man... and how many rookie bigs do u kno of that dont commit alot of fouls? it has nuthing to do with his speed... one of the best defensive bigs today kendrick perkins is not fast AT ALL... u dont need speed to play good D as a center...


Someone that hasn't played a full season in the league should never be looked at as "one of the best defensive bigs" that's a bad bad statement :facepalm: He is sloooooooooow......he dominated in college cause he was playing a bunch of 18 and 19 yr old kids! he was a 7'1 Giant man! but in the NBA he is just another (when healthy, which isn't much) quality big man that can rebound well and block a shot or two a game.

ragee
03-15-2010, 10:23 AM
The argument that big men take longer to develop is a fantasy argument developed since Oden turned out to be the wrong choice. It's standard, politically correct, but factually incorrect BS. We're talking about the first pick overall, so it's not a stretch to look at the numbers put up by genuine HOF guys in their first years. They had it from the get. Inasmuch as Durant is putting up HOF numbers, and anyone who is honest knows that's where he's headed as premature as such an assessment might be for ordinary guys which Durant clearly is not, Oden has to be compared to other HOF centers before him. So there are two points which you won't address: 1. Would the Thunder win 50 games without Durant as Portland did without Oden? We all know they'd have been lucky to win 35 games without him. That's why some think he ought to be MVP; and 2. The best centers don't take any longer than other positions to develop a pro skill set. Kareem, Shaq, Wilt scored close to 30 pts. and 15 boads right when they entered the league. Now I'll admit Oden has had some good games against, for example, the Brookie Lopez' of the league, but his numbers against decent centers are pretty weak. Look up the box scores for yourself. In that light, Oden's numbers aren't very impressive. Just a whole lot of fouls.



KAREEM
Year Age Team Lg G Min Pts PPG FGM FGA FGP FTM FTA FTP 3PM 3PA 3PP ORB DRB TRB RPG AST APG STL BLK TO PF
1969-70 22 MIL NBA 82 3534 2361 28.8 938 1810 .518 485 743 .653 0 0 .000 0 0 1190 14.5 337 4.1 0 0 0 283 A
1970-71 23 MIL NBA 82 3288 2596 31.7 1063 1843 .577 470 681 .690 0 0 .000 0 0 1311 16.0 272 3.3 0 0 0 264 M N A
1971-72 24 MIL NBA 81 3583 2822 34.8 1159 2019 .574 504 732 .689 0 0 .000 0 0 1346 16.6 370 4.6 0 0 0 235 M N A
1972-73 25 MIL NBA 76 3254 2292 30.2 982 1772 .554 328 460 .713 0 0 .000 0 0 1224 16.1 379 5.0 0 0 0 208 N A

SHAQ


Year Age Team Lg G Min Pts PPG FGM FGA FGP FTM FTA FTP 3PM 3PA 3PP ORB DRB TRB RPG AST APG STL BLK TO PF
1992-93 20 ORL NBA 81 3071 1893 23.4 733 1304 .562 427 721 .592 0 2 .000 342 780 1122 13.9 152 1.9 60 286 307 321 A Log
1993-94 21 ORL NBA 81 3224 2377 29.3 953 1591 .599 471 850 .554 0 2 .000 384 688 1072 13.2 195 2.4 76 231 222 281 A Log
1994-95 22 ORL NBA 79 2923 2315 29.3 930 1594 .583 455 855 .532 0 5 .000 328 573 901 11.4 214 2.7 73 192 204 258 A Log
1995-96 23 ORL NBA 54 1946 1434 26.6 592 1033 .573 249 511 .487 1 2 .500 182 414 596 11.0 155 2.9 34 115 155 193 A L

WILT

Year Age Team Lg G Min Pts PPG FGM FGA FGP FTM FTA FTP 3PM 3PA 3PP ORB DRB TRB RPG AST APG STL BLK TO PF
1959-60 23 PH1 NBA 72 3338 2707 37.6 1065 2311 .461 577 991 .582 0 0 .000 0 0 1941 27.0 168 2.3 0 0 0 150 M N A
1960-61 24 PH1 NBA 79 3773 3033 38.4 1251 2457 .509 531 1054 .504 0 0 .000 0 0 2149 27.2 148 1.9 0 0 0 130 N A
1961-62 25 PH1 NBA 80 3882 4029 50.4 1597 3159 .506 835 1363 .613 0 0 .000 0 0 2052 25.7 192 2.4 0 0 0 123 N A
1962-63 26 SFW NBA 80 3806 3586 44.8 1463 2770 .528 660 1113 .593 0 0 .000 0 0 1946 24.3 275 3.4 0 0 0 136 A
1963-64 27 SFW NBA 80 3689 2948 36.9 1204 2298 .524 540 1016 .531 0 0 .000 0 0 1787 22.3 403 5.0 0 0 0 182 N A

:facepalm::facepalm::facepalm:

You are such a homer... You are comparing him tothe top 3 centers of all time! Any other center will look silly when compared to these 3!!! Why don't you look at Dwight's and Robert Parish's numbers... Both are great centers as well... Their first couple of years were almost the same as Oden's...

ballpd05
03-15-2010, 10:26 AM
Your comparing him to arguably the top 3 centers of all time.

Why don't you compare him to another Center that was taken 1st Overall. Andrew Bogut.

I agree, but I think you should compare him to any other average center and see how he compares.

How does he compare with Dwight Howard and Yao Ming. Then see how he compares to the centers a step down like Andrew Bynum, Jermaine O'Neal, Andrew Bogut, and Brendan Haywood. Then guys like Roy Hibbert, Brad Miller, and Rasho Nesterovic.

Oden will probably be okay. He put decent numbers in his first year of play with the 11 ppg 9 rpg and 2 blks. But the fouls probably come because of the adjustment period, before this he wasn't playing against NBA talent and athleticism every night so he does deserve a feeling out process.

He was drafted to dominate the paint on D and provide an inside outside game. He was so strong and agile in college where they thought his upside was ridiculous... Now with his legs/foot/knee always giving out he always returns looking huge and out of shape. Hopefully he gets it together.

DodgerorLaker?
03-15-2010, 10:30 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by NortonMang
The argument that big men take longer to develop is a fantasy argument developed since Oden turned out to be the wrong choice. It's standard, politically correct, but factually incorrect BS. We're talking about the first pick overall, so it's not a stretch to look at the numbers put up by genuine HOF guys in their first years. They had it from the get. Inasmuch as Durant is putting up HOF numbers, and anyone who is honest knows that's where he's headed as premature as such an assessment might be for ordinary guys which Durant clearly is not, Oden has to be compared to other HOF centers before him. So there are two points which you won't address: 1. Would the Thunder win 50 games without Durant as Portland did without Oden? We all know they'd have been lucky to win 35 games without him. That's why some think he ought to be MVP; and 2. The best centers don't take any longer than other positions to develop a pro skill set. Kareem, Shaq, Wilt scored close to 30 pts. and 15 boads right when they entered the league. Now I'll admit Oden has had some good games against, for example, the Brookie Lopez' of the league, but his numbers against decent centers are pretty weak. Look up the box scores for yourself. In that light, Oden's numbers aren't very impressive. Just a whole lot of fouls.



KAREEM
Year Age Team Lg G Min Pts PPG FGM FGA FGP FTM FTA FTP 3PM 3PA 3PP ORB DRB TRB RPG AST APG STL BLK TO PF
1969-70 22 MIL NBA 82 3534 2361 28.8 938 1810 .518 485 743 .653 0 0 .000 0 0 1190 14.5 337 4.1 0 0 0 283 A
1970-71 23 MIL NBA 82 3288 2596 31.7 1063 1843 .577 470 681 .690 0 0 .000 0 0 1311 16.0 272 3.3 0 0 0 264 M N A
1971-72 24 MIL NBA 81 3583 2822 34.8 1159 2019 .574 504 732 .689 0 0 .000 0 0 1346 16.6 370 4.6 0 0 0 235 M N A
1972-73 25 MIL NBA 76 3254 2292 30.2 982 1772 .554 328 460 .713 0 0 .000 0 0 1224 16.1 379 5.0 0 0 0 208 N A

SHAQ


Year Age Team Lg G Min Pts PPG FGM FGA FGP FTM FTA FTP 3PM 3PA 3PP ORB DRB TRB RPG AST APG STL BLK TO PF
1992-93 20 ORL NBA 81 3071 1893 23.4 733 1304 .562 427 721 .592 0 2 .000 342 780 1122 13.9 152 1.9 60 286 307 321 A Log
1993-94 21 ORL NBA 81 3224 2377 29.3 953 1591 .599 471 850 .554 0 2 .000 384 688 1072 13.2 195 2.4 76 231 222 281 A Log
1994-95 22 ORL NBA 79 2923 2315 29.3 930 1594 .583 455 855 .532 0 5 .000 328 573 901 11.4 214 2.7 73 192 204 258 A Log
1995-96 23 ORL NBA 54 1946 1434 26.6 592 1033 .573 249 511 .487 1 2 .500 182 414 596 11.0 155 2.9 34 115 155 193 A L

WILT

Year Age Team Lg G Min Pts PPG FGM FGA FGP FTM FTA FTP 3PM 3PA 3PP ORB DRB TRB RPG AST APG STL BLK TO PF
1959-60 23 PH1 NBA 72 3338 2707 37.6 1065 2311 .461 577 991 .582 0 0 .000 0 0 1941 27.0 168 2.3 0 0 0 150 M N A
1960-61 24 PH1 NBA 79 3773 3033 38.4 1251 2457 .509 531 1054 .504 0 0 .000 0 0 2149 27.2 148 1.9 0 0 0 130 N A
1961-62 25 PH1 NBA 80 3882 4029 50.4 1597 3159 .506 835 1363 .613 0 0 .000 0 0 2052 25.7 192 2.4 0 0 0 123 N A
1962-63 26 SFW NBA 80 3806 3586 44.8 1463 2770 .528 660 1113 .593 0 0 .000 0 0 1946 24.3 275 3.4 0 0 0 136 A
1963-64 27 SFW NBA 80 3689 2948 36.9 1204 2298 .524 540 1016 .531 0 0 .000 0 0 1787 22.3 403 5.0 0 0 0 182 N A


Once I saw Kareem, Wilt and Shaq's name I didn't even read the stats! Why should I or anybody???? this guy is joking right? I noticed one thing, that is games played! notice all those HOF'S playing 70-80 games a season! Has Oden even played 50 games total in his first few seasons???

ragee
03-15-2010, 11:04 AM
Here are some stats for you of similar centers in their first 2 years in the league:

ROBERT PARISH (Named One of the 50 Greatest Players in History)

YEAR G MPG FG% FT% OFF DEF RPG APG SPG BPG TO PF PPG
76-77 77 18.0 .503 .708 2.6 4.4 7.1 1.0 .71 1.22 .00 2.9 9.1
77-78 82 24.0 .472 .625 2.6 5.7 8.3 1.2 .96 1.50 2.45 3.50 12.5


DWIGHT HOWARD (Arguably the Best Center in the League Right Now)

YEAR G MPG FG% FT% OFF DEF RPG APG SPG BPG TO PF PPG
04-05 82 32.6 .520 .671 3.5 6.5 10.0 0.9 0.9 1.7 2.01 2.83 12.0
05-06 82 36.8 .531 .595 3.5 9.0 12.5 1.5 0.8 1.4 2.65 3.38 15.8

ANDREW BOGUT (Another Center who is a 1st Overal Pick and now really doing good)

YEAR G MPG FG% FT% OFF DEF RPG APG SPG BPG TO PF PPG
05-06 82 28.6 .533 .629 2.3 4.7 7.0 2.3 0.6 0.8 1.52 3.16 9.4
06-07 66 34.2 .553 .577 2.5 6.3 8.8 3.0 0.7 0.5 2.27 3.27 12.3

Greg Oden

YEAR G MPG FG% FT% OFF DEF RPG APG SPG BPG TO PF PPG
08-09 61 21.5 .564 .637 2.8 4.2 7.0 0.5 0.4 1.1 1.43 3.90 8.9
09-10 21 23.9 .605 .766 3.0 5.4 8.5 0.9 0.4 2.3 1.86 4.00 11.1

MattColby
03-15-2010, 11:11 AM
^ Those stats pretty much show that Greg Oden can still be one of the better centers in the NBA. He was having a pretty good year until he was injured. Obviously he needs to figure out how to stay healthy, but to call him a bust, is just ridiculous.

ragee
03-15-2010, 11:30 AM
^ Those stats pretty much show that Greg Oden can still be one of the better centers in the NBA. He was having a pretty good year until he was injured. Obviously he needs to figure out how to stay healthy, but to call him a bust, is just ridiculous.

Exactly my point... How can you call a player who only played for two years in the league be a bust?

NortonMang
03-15-2010, 01:32 PM
If the Oden crowd is saying it's not fair to compare him to the top three centers of alltime, well then, they've made my point about Durant. See Durant has just about entered the GOAT conversation, has already entered the top five in the league and MVP conversation. Now I know it seems ridiculous to start talking about a 21 year old as GOAT but look at his stats and look at his team. I saw a game a while back where Ibaka flung the ball to the court on the way to the lockeroom for halftime and Durant stopped the guy, scolding him for losing his cool. That's the kind of leadership he's displaying night in and night out. Maybe the guys that can't see his once in a generation play think his points come by accident and that it's an accident that a team that might win 35 games without him is having a banner year. I will tell you guys something else. The Thunder are going to make a deep playoff run. We are witness to a phenom and for those who want to stick to basketball orthodoxy, such as he's not been at it long enough, I figure you're just incapable of comprehending Durant's brilliance. You're hung up on cliches. You're stuck.

TheRazorboy
03-15-2010, 02:26 PM
See Durant has just about entered the GOAT conversation

It's hardly a conversation when you're the only one saying it.

NortonMang
03-15-2010, 02:44 PM
It's hardly a conversation when you're the only one saying it.

And your claim to fame is an oblivious devotion to the Oden bandwagon.

Tblaze
03-15-2010, 02:54 PM
The people posting here should've watched more of him before they made conclusions.

The ChILL
03-15-2010, 03:12 PM
And your claim to fame is an oblivious devotion to the Oden bandwagon.

I agree with you 100%. I also only listen to people who are able to watch hours of sports coverage since they work at the electronics department at KMart.

NortonMang
03-15-2010, 03:23 PM
I agree with you 100%. I also only listen to people who are able to watch hours of sports coverage since they work at the electronics department at KMart.

There's a big sale on plaid gym shoes right now at all KMart stores. Get in on this one while they last!

The ChILL
03-15-2010, 03:28 PM
There's a big sale on plaid gym shoes right now at all KMart stores. Get in on this one while they last!

Well that's not politically correct. haha. This thread is a joke. If you wanted to make a thread to have an open discussion on Durant's talent you should have done so.

D1JM
03-15-2010, 03:41 PM
blazers passed on Jordan and durant for their needs on the team taking in consideration the positions or type of play of their players. One thing for sure though, is that they should learn their lesson on drafting the best player overall and than their team needs.

Tblaze
03-15-2010, 03:47 PM
blazers passed on Jordan and durant for their needs on the team taking in consideration the positions or type of play of their players. One thing for sure though, is that they should learn their lesson on drafting the best player overall and than their team needs.

I agree, but was Durant that much better at the time of the draft??

With Oden you probably had one of the best centers in the future,

With Durant you had one of the better Small Forwards in the future.

The talent gap wasn't that big as you guys make it sound, the pick was alot more logical at the time as it seems now.

ChiSox219
03-15-2010, 03:52 PM
I agree, but was Durant that much better at the time of the draft??

With Oden you probably had one of the best centers in the future,

With Durant you had one of the better Small Forwards in the future.

The talent gap wasn't that big as you guys make it sound, the pick was alot more logical at the time as it seems now.

Exactly, it was like Hakeem vs Jordan. A lot of people knew Jordan was going to be a great player but Hakeem was a dominant big man and you just can't pass that up.

D1JM
03-15-2010, 04:05 PM
I agree, but was Durant that much better at the time of the draft??

With Oden you probably had one of the best centers in the future,

With Durant you had one of the better Small Forwards in the future.

The talent gap wasn't that big as you guys make it sound, the pick was alot more logical at the time as it seems now.

yea i know what you are trying to say, but imagine a roy durant alridge. You wouldnt need a big man to win.

valade16
03-15-2010, 04:10 PM
If the Oden crowd is saying it's not fair to compare him to the top three centers of alltime, well then, they've made my point about Durant. See Durant has just about entered the GOAT conversation, has already entered the top five in the league and MVP conversation. Now I know it seems ridiculous to start talking about a 21 year old as GOAT but look at his stats and look at his team. I saw a game a while back where Ibaka flung the ball to the court on the way to the lockeroom for halftime and Durant stopped the guy, scolding him for losing his cool. That's the kind of leadership he's displaying night in and night out. Maybe the guys that can't see his once in a generation play think his points come by accident and that it's an accident that a team that might win 35 games without him is having a banner year. I will tell you guys something else. The Thunder are going to make a deep playoff run. We are witness to a phenom and for those who want to stick to basketball orthodoxy, such as he's not been at it long enough, I figure you're just incapable of comprehending Durant's brilliance. You're hung up on cliches. You're stuck.

So Durant is already a top 3 SF ever? And I thought Kobe homers were crazy...

And if Durant is a once in a generation player how do you explain him playing against the likes of Kobe, LeBron, Melo, and Wade?

td0tsfinest
03-15-2010, 04:13 PM
My friend works in the electronics department at kmart. He watches all the sports shows and knows all about sports. He is very smart and will make assistant manager next year and gets good benefits. He says Oden can't hold Durant's gymnasium bag.

Someone sign his boy up, he will be a kick *** GM one day. NBA teams are going to start sending scouts to K-marts, Best Buys and other retail outlets.

Seriously though, Durant is the better player but that wasn't the question you posed. Is Oden slow? Sure he relative to guards and forwards. But he's quicker than a lot of people give him credit for.

His numbers are solid for a guy averaging 24 MPG. If he can stay healthy, I think he can be a good player in this league.

NortonMang
03-15-2010, 04:27 PM
blazers passed on Jordan and durant for their needs on the team taking in consideration the positions or type of play of their players. One thing for sure though, is that they should learn their lesson on drafting the best player overall and than their team needs.

Durant-Oden, Bogie-Bacall, Astaire-Rodgers, Bowie-Jordan, Brad Pitt-Jennifer Anderson: These names will always go together.

D1JM
03-15-2010, 04:27 PM
If the Oden crowd is saying it's not fair to compare him to the top three centers of alltime, well then, they've made my point about Durant. See Durant has just about entered the GOAT conversation, has already entered the top five in the league and MVP conversation. Now I know it seems ridiculous to start talking about a 21 year old as GOAT but look at his stats and look at his team. I saw a game a while back where Ibaka flung the ball to the court on the way to the lockeroom for halftime and Durant stopped the guy, scolding him for losing his cool. That's the kind of leadership he's displaying night in and night out. Maybe the guys that can't see his once in a generation play think his points come by accident and that it's an accident that a team that might win 35 games without him is having a banner year. I will tell you guys something else. The Thunder are going to make a deep playoff run. We are witness to a phenom and for those who want to stick to basketball orthodoxy, such as he's not been at it long enough, I figure you're just incapable of comprehending Durant's brilliance. You're hung up on cliches. You're stuck.

wow saying that Durant is already among the best SF to ever play the game is one of the most stupidest things I have ever heard. Tell me how is he better than Larry Bird, Dr. J, Elgin Baylor, Dominique Wilkins, Drexler or even lebron?

D1JM
03-15-2010, 04:28 PM
Durant-Oden, Bogie-Bacall, Astaire-Rodgers, Bowie-Jordan, Brad Pitt-Jennifer Anderson: These names will always go together.

isnt it Jennifer Aniston and not anderson?

NortonMang
03-15-2010, 04:30 PM
wow saying that Durant is already among the best SF to ever play the game is one of the most stupidest things I have ever heard. Tell me how is he better than Larry Bird, Dr. J, Elgin Baylor, Dominique Wilkins, Drexler or even lebron?

It is what it is. You guys have no ability to recognize the greatness on display since Durant was at Texas. Shine it on or get some glasses.

D1JM
03-15-2010, 04:33 PM
My friend works in the electronics department at kmart. He watches all the sports shows and knows all about sports. He is very smart and will make assistant manager next year and gets good benefits. He says Oden can't hold Durant's gymnasium bag.

I will apply at Kmart ASAP as I want to be full of knowledge like your friend. I have a question though, how is the 401 K

sep11ie
03-15-2010, 04:41 PM
Healthy Oden is an oxymoron

Tblaze
03-15-2010, 04:53 PM
Healthy Oden is an oxymoron

...he's a german band?

The ChILL
03-15-2010, 04:56 PM
It is what it is. You guys have no ability to recognize the greatness on display since Durant was at Texas. Shine it on or get some glasses.

I don't think you recognize that your thread was originally about Oden, yet you have turned it into a Durant love fest, which people openly recognize is a great talent so I don't understand exactly what you are attempting to accomplish?

sep11ie
03-15-2010, 05:10 PM
...he's a german band?

Shut up stupid!

valade16
03-15-2010, 05:22 PM
It is what it is. You guys have no ability to recognize the greatness on display since Durant was at Texas. Shine it on or get some glasses.

So, I just want to get this straight.

Do you think Durant is better than Larry Bird, Dr. J, and LeBron?

Tblaze
03-15-2010, 05:23 PM
Shut up stupid!

Love you too hun.

NortonMang
03-15-2010, 05:25 PM
isnt it Jennifer Aniston and not anderson?

Gotcha, smart guy. Now go back and look at some Oden highlights from his college days, and get some of those plaid gym shoes from KMart.

D1JM
03-15-2010, 05:40 PM
Gotcha, smart guy. Now go back and look at some Oden highlights from his college days, and get some of those plaid gym shoes from KMart.

So you have a lovefest with Durant and Kmart?

SteveNash
03-15-2010, 05:44 PM
This thread is stupid, should be locked.

sep11ie
03-15-2010, 05:49 PM
Love you too hun.

:love:

chitownbears89
03-15-2010, 06:04 PM
My friend works in the electronics department at kmart. He watches all the sports shows and knows all about sports. He is very smart and will make assistant manager next year and gets good benefits. He says Oden can't hold Durant's gymnasium bag.

Hahahahaha, omg i cant stop laughing at this post. I dont know whether to take it seriously or not. The best part is when he says his friend works for Kmart and will probably be assistant manager next year. WTF does that have to do with basketball or better yet what does it have to do with any argument? I would never trust a Kmart employee about anything not even the store they work at. Oh man good laugh though, this guy is the new laughingstock of psd.

NortonMang
03-15-2010, 06:15 PM
Hahahahaha, omg i cant stop laughing at this post. I dont know whether to take it seriously or not. The best part is when he says his friend works for Kmart and will probably be assistant manager next year. WTF does that have to do with basketball or better yet what does it have to do with any argument? I would never trust a Kmart employee about anything not even the store they work at. Oh man good laugh though, this guy is the new laughingstock of psd.

Good to know the guys around here got a sense of humor. Mention of KMart always gets the same reaction.

sep11ie
03-15-2010, 06:19 PM
^Kenyon or Kevin?

D1JM
03-15-2010, 07:31 PM
^^^^ Wrong KMart lol

sep11ie
03-15-2010, 09:59 PM
I know, it was a joke

ragee
03-16-2010, 12:15 AM
If the Oden crowd is saying it's not fair to compare him to the top three centers of alltime, well then, they've made my point about Durant. See Durant has just about entered the GOAT conversation, has already entered the top five in the league and MVP conversation. Now I know it seems ridiculous to start talking about a 21 year old as GOAT but look at his stats and look at his team. I saw a game a while back where Ibaka flung the ball to the court on the way to the lockeroom for halftime and Durant stopped the guy, scolding him for losing his cool. That's the kind of leadership he's displaying night in and night out. Maybe the guys that can't see his once in a generation play think his points come by accident and that it's an accident that a team that might win 35 games without him is having a banner year. I will tell you guys something else. The Thunder are going to make a deep playoff run. We are witness to a phenom and for those who want to stick to basketball orthodoxy, such as he's not been at it long enough, I figure you're just incapable of comprehending Durant's brilliance. You're hung up on cliches. You're stuck.

Well, you should have made this thread a Durant vs Oden thread then... Don't bash on Oden just because Durant is really doing well... If you asked us who is better right now, we won't argue with you... It is Durant... We are not homers and we look at the argument at both sides...

Now, If you are going to ask if the Blazers would have been better off with Durant, that is a whole different argument... Sure, he is a scoring machine but do note that scoring is not really what we need... I don't want to bash on Durant coz I like the guy and really like his team too but that dude is a little bit of a ball hog... Do you really think Roy and Durant can really play well together? Both of them needs the ball in their hands most of the time for them to be able to be productive... As a Blazer fan, I am still happy that we picked Oden... We don't need Durant... We have Batum, Rudy and Webster handle the SF position... We don't need another scorer... What we need is a good center that can provide a solid interior defense...

You are boasting about how good the Thunders are right now... Sure they are and I am glad they will make the playoffs this year... I hope they can go far and if there is a chance that they can get past the Lakers, I am sure as hell be cheering for them... However, do note that the Blazers are in the playoffs too... Despite the bad luck that we have this season (everyone getting injured even Nate Mcmillan), we are still in the playoff race... So we are not really wishing we picked Durant over Oden because there is still a lot of time for Oden to prove his worth... 2 years of experience is not enough to gauge a skill of a player... Give him a couple of years and then we can talk...

NortonMang
03-16-2010, 09:18 AM
. 2 years of experience is not enough to gauge a skill of a player... Give him a couple of years and then we can talk...

Where did you learn that? Perhaps not for your average player, but was it enough for Shaq, for Wilt, for Kareem, for Lebron, for Kobe, for Dr. J, for Bird? This forum doesn't have a monopoly on politically correct cliches, but certainly has its fair share. I think you guys just pride yourself on sounding judicious..... at the expense of seeing what is so obvious. Try believing your lying eyes instead. It's called being smart.

blackjack_119
03-16-2010, 05:13 PM
The argument that big men take longer to develop is a fantasy argument developed since Oden turned out to be the wrong choice. It's standard, politically correct, but factually incorrect BS. We're talking about the first pick overall, so it's not a stretch to look at the numbers put up by genuine HOF guys in their first years. They had it from the get. Inasmuch as Durant is putting up HOF numbers, and anyone who is honest knows that's where he's headed as premature as such an assessment might be for ordinary guys which Durant clearly is not, Oden has to be compared to other HOF centers before him. So there are two points which you won't address: 1. Would the Thunder win 50 games without Durant as Portland did without Oden? We all know they'd have been lucky to win 35 games without him. That's why some think he ought to be MVP; and 2. The best centers don't take any longer than other positions to develop a pro skill set. Kareem, Shaq, Wilt scored close to 30 pts. and 15 boads right when they entered the league. Now I'll admit Oden has had some good games against, for example, the Brookie Lopez' of the league, but his numbers against decent centers are pretty weak. Look up the box scores for yourself. In that light, Oden's numbers aren't very impressive. Just a whole lot of fouls.



KAREEM
Year Age Team Lg G Min Pts PPG FGM FGA FGP FTM FTA FTP 3PM 3PA 3PP ORB DRB TRB RPG AST APG STL BLK TO PF
1969-70 22 MIL NBA 82 3534 2361 28.8 938 1810 .518 485 743 .653 0 0 .000 0 0 1190 14.5 337 4.1 0 0 0 283 A
1970-71 23 MIL NBA 82 3288 2596 31.7 1063 1843 .577 470 681 .690 0 0 .000 0 0 1311 16.0 272 3.3 0 0 0 264 M N A
1971-72 24 MIL NBA 81 3583 2822 34.8 1159 2019 .574 504 732 .689 0 0 .000 0 0 1346 16.6 370 4.6 0 0 0 235 M N A
1972-73 25 MIL NBA 76 3254 2292 30.2 982 1772 .554 328 460 .713 0 0 .000 0 0 1224 16.1 379 5.0 0 0 0 208 N A

SHAQ


Year Age Team Lg G Min Pts PPG FGM FGA FGP FTM FTA FTP 3PM 3PA 3PP ORB DRB TRB RPG AST APG STL BLK TO PF
1992-93 20 ORL NBA 81 3071 1893 23.4 733 1304 .562 427 721 .592 0 2 .000 342 780 1122 13.9 152 1.9 60 286 307 321 A Log
1993-94 21 ORL NBA 81 3224 2377 29.3 953 1591 .599 471 850 .554 0 2 .000 384 688 1072 13.2 195 2.4 76 231 222 281 A Log
1994-95 22 ORL NBA 79 2923 2315 29.3 930 1594 .583 455 855 .532 0 5 .000 328 573 901 11.4 214 2.7 73 192 204 258 A Log
1995-96 23 ORL NBA 54 1946 1434 26.6 592 1033 .573 249 511 .487 1 2 .500 182 414 596 11.0 155 2.9 34 115 155 193 A L

WILT

Year Age Team Lg G Min Pts PPG FGM FGA FGP FTM FTA FTP 3PM 3PA 3PP ORB DRB TRB RPG AST APG STL BLK TO PF
1959-60 23 PH1 NBA 72 3338 2707 37.6 1065 2311 .461 577 991 .582 0 0 .000 0 0 1941 27.0 168 2.3 0 0 0 150 M N A
1960-61 24 PH1 NBA 79 3773 3033 38.4 1251 2457 .509 531 1054 .504 0 0 .000 0 0 2149 27.2 148 1.9 0 0 0 130 N A
1961-62 25 PH1 NBA 80 3882 4029 50.4 1597 3159 .506 835 1363 .613 0 0 .000 0 0 2052 25.7 192 2.4 0 0 0 123 N A
1962-63 26 SFW NBA 80 3806 3586 44.8 1463 2770 .528 660 1113 .593 0 0 .000 0 0 1946 24.3 275 3.4 0 0 0 136 A
1963-64 27 SFW NBA 80 3689 2948 36.9 1204 2298 .524 540 1016 .531 0 0 .000 0 0 1787 22.3 403 5.0 0 0 0 182 N A

Despite this being his 3rd year, Oden is still younger than two of those three were in their rookie seasons. Give him some time.

Monstars
03-16-2010, 05:33 PM
Yeah the Blazers had the worst luck drafting Oden, but other than that their draft picks turned out pretty good for them.

dtmagnet
03-16-2010, 07:51 PM
My friend works in the electronics department at kmart. He watches all the sports shows and knows all about sports. He is very smart and will make assistant manager next year and gets good benefits. He says Oden can't hold Durant's gymnasium bag.

I think my water just broke.

ragee
03-16-2010, 10:57 PM
Where did you learn that? Perhaps not for your average player, but was it enough for Shaq, for Wilt, for Kareem, for Lebron, for Kobe, for Dr. J, for Bird? This forum doesn't have a monopoly on politically correct cliches, but certainly has its fair share. I think you guys just pride yourself on sounding judicious..... at the expense of seeing what is so obvious. Try believing your lying eyes instead. It's called being smart.

You're saying 2 years are enough for a player to show his true potential? Where did you get that? It doesn't apply to everyone... Was it enough for Robert Parish, Dwight Howard, Dirk Nowitzki, Steve Nash, Chauncey Billups, Devin Harris, Ben Wallace, Tracy Mcgrady, Joe Dumars or John Stockton??? NO! Some of those players are/were good and some are/were great! You are the one with the false belief that all great players are the same... Why don't you watch basketball games before making an argument...

Oh, and to further validate my point that some players needs time to adjust in the NBA, Kobe Bryant and Deron Williams needed a year for them to be able to get their game on!

NortonMang
03-17-2010, 12:38 AM
I agree some guys take longer to display what they've got. That's not the case with Durant. Are you saying Durant hasn't had the time to "adjust" to the league as with some of the guys you mention? Your post makes no sense.

SteveNash
03-17-2010, 12:42 AM
Oden has had 82 games to adjust, 1800 minutes. Durant played 80 games 2768 minutes and still sucked his rookie year.

ragee
03-17-2010, 03:29 AM
I agree some guys take longer to display what they've got. That's not the case with Durant. Are you saying Durant hasn't had the time to "adjust" to the league as with some of the guys you mention? Your post makes no sense.

Huh? I'm lost... Isn't this a thread about Oden? The only reason I mentioned Durant on one of my posts is because you keep mentioning him... I am talking about Oden.. You keep degrading him and comparing him to great players like Shaq, Wilt and Jabar so I pointed out other great players that have started slow... All I am saying is cut him some slack coz he has only played in the league for 2 years and there are players that take longer time for them to be able to show their true potential...

NortonMang
03-17-2010, 09:55 AM
Huh? I'm lost... Isn't this a thread about Oden? The only reason I mentioned Durant on one of my posts is because you keep mentioning him... I am talking about Oden.. You keep degrading him and comparing him to great players like Shaq, Wilt and Jabar so I pointed out other great players that have started slow... All I am saying is cut him some slack coz he has only played in the league for 2 years and there are players that take longer time for them to be able to show their true potential...

I re-read your earlier post, and see your point. We've been talking apples and oranges. Oden needs more time to develop, especially because he's hardly played. He, in your opinion, may turn out real good. My feeling is you can't teach quickness, but you're right we ought to reserve judgment and give the guy a chance. As for Durant, between him and Oden, there's never been any real competition in my view. But that's a different question than whether Oden will ever be a significant impact player. Mea culpa.

ragee
03-17-2010, 11:23 AM
I re-read your earlier post, and see your point. We've been talking apples and oranges. Oden needs more time to develop, especially because he's hardly played. He, in your opinion, may turn out real good. My feeling is you can't teach quickness, but you're right we ought to reserve judgment and give the guy a chance. As for Durant, between him and Oden, there's never been any real competition in my view. But that's a different question than whether Oden will ever be a significant impact player. Mea culpa.

Exactly... Not hating on Durant man... I like that guy too although Green in my favorite Thunder... Im rooting for OKC after my teams! Let's just wait and see what happens to Oden... He may lack lateral quickness but there are things that you can teach that can help compensate for that... As of right now, you are right, he is nowhere near Durant... I think Durant will still be a better player even if Oden turns into a good center but the impact of them to their team would be the one I would want to compare... I still believe Oden is the last piece of the puzzle for the Blazers... Later dude!