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View Full Version : Andrew Bogut is the best center in the league



AI4MVP
03-10-2010, 10:27 PM
I know alot of you are going to freak out, especially becuz hes a player that h as nevver been in an all star game, isnt really a big name, and plays in a small market, but andrew bogut is the best center in the nba.


Defensively, hes been just as much as a block machine as Dwight Howard, as Bogut is averaging 2.5 blocks per game.

Hes been a a great rebounder this year and is averaging double digit boards.

but what really separates him in my opinion is his offensive game. His post moves are un matched, and his left-handed hook shot is prolly the most unstoppable shot in the nba right now. Hes unstoppable in the post, and doesnt even need any athletiscm to do it. Dont let the only 16 point per game fool you. if bogut was a first option he could average in the 20's without a doubt.

I know Dwights numbers are better, but Bogut has a much better all around game and is equaling Dwight in blocks



I know everyone is gunna hate on me for this becuz Dwight has more of the star power and Milwaukee isnt a very watched team.


discuss

Jack of Blades
03-10-2010, 10:28 PM
Yeah, he's been on a tear recently.

marlinsfan24
03-10-2010, 10:30 PM
Not the best.

AI4MVP
03-10-2010, 10:30 PM
Andrew Bogut is a better player then Dwight Howard. period.

Melo15
03-10-2010, 10:32 PM
Andrew Bogut is a better player then Dwight Howard. period.

:facepalm: Come on man

Gibby23
03-10-2010, 10:32 PM
2nd best. He has a better post game than Howard but Howard is a better defender. I also think Howard makes a bigger impact on the game.

B.JenningsMVP
03-10-2010, 10:33 PM
Better than Dwight?? Naaaa.. 2nd best is a more realistic statement

Tribe
03-10-2010, 10:33 PM
Andrew Bogut is nowhere near the best center in the league...He would make Luc Longley proud thats about it

JNA17
03-10-2010, 10:35 PM
Andrew Bogut is a better player then Dwight Howard. period.

You just added more "fail statements" in my fail statements collection. :facepalm:

B.JenningsMVP
03-10-2010, 10:36 PM
On a side note... B.Jennings and Bogut in the future tho, thats gonnnna be something lol

MTone8788
03-10-2010, 10:38 PM
I'll go as far to say that Andrew Bogut has surprised me this season. Before, I didn't think he was deserving of that contract. Now, with the Bucks being a 5th seed team (east, I know, but still, they are the bucks who expected it?) and him playing great I changed my mind.

AI4MVP
03-10-2010, 10:39 PM
you guys are all close minded. just becuz dwight is superman and plays for a better team and bigger market you automatically dismiss anything else. Andrew Bogut is literally 948594385930485904 times bbetter then dwight offensively, and dwight is a little bit better then bogut defensively. A LITTLE BIT. there averaging 2.5 and 2.8 blocks per game. The fact that Bogut is 948594385930485904 times better the dwight offesnively makes up for the .00001 times that dwight is better defensively

Kakaroach
03-10-2010, 10:39 PM
I am one of the biggest Andrew Bogut homers UTAH UTE on PSD, but even I wouldn't go this far.

29$JerZ
03-10-2010, 10:42 PM
1 Good year doesn't make you the best.

If that were true David Lee is just as good as Duncan.

Swashcuff
03-10-2010, 10:43 PM
you guys are all close minded. just becuz dwight is superman and plays for a better team and bigger market you automatically dismiss anything else. Andrew Bogut is literally 948594385930485904 times bbetter then dwight offensively, and dwight is a little bit better then bogut defensively. A LITTLE BIT. there averaging 2.5 and 2.8 blocks per game. The fact that Bogut is 948594385930485904 times better the dwight offesnively makes up for the .00001 times that dwight is better defensively

http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l79/JeepJeep8/facepalm.jpg

its gonna take you ah hell of a LONG time to gain any respect after an ignorant statement such as this.

ko8e24
03-10-2010, 10:45 PM
I would say he's probably the most underrated, and perhaps even the most fundamentally sound center in the league today.

RadiantShot
03-10-2010, 10:45 PM
I hope nobody is taking this thread serious.

Obvious prank is obvious.

/Leave thread.

ChiSox219
03-10-2010, 10:46 PM
1 Good year doesn't make you the best.

If that were true David Lee is just as good as Duncan.

Lee's offensive production is still behind Duncan's and then you have to factor in defense...

Still can't believe Lee got in and Bogut/Josh Smith were left off the all-star squad.

ChiSox219
03-10-2010, 10:47 PM
I hope nobody is taking this thread serious.

Obvious prank is obvious.

/Leave thread.

Bogut has a case.

Sox Appeal
03-10-2010, 10:48 PM
I would say he's probably the most underrated, and perhaps even the most fundamentally sound center in the league today.

This. Even though he still is behind Dwight and healthy Yao, in terms of the best center in the league. But I should say, I've never really noticed how skilled of an offensive player Bogut was, until last night. He's the first player that I've seen Kendrick Perkins need a double-team to defend against.

Melo15
03-10-2010, 10:48 PM
you guys are all close minded. just becuz dwight is superman and plays for a better team and bigger market you automatically dismiss anything else. Andrew Bogut is literally 948594385930485904 times bbetter then dwight offensively, and dwight is a little bit better then bogut defensively. A LITTLE BIT. there averaging 2.5 and 2.8 blocks per game. The fact that Bogut is 948594385930485904 times better the dwight offesnively makes up for the .00001 times that dwight is better defensively

Dude just stop. Dwight is better than Bogut, hints why his stats are better than Boguts. You say Bogut is so much better than Howard then how come Howard averages more points? Dwight Howard is one of the few players out there who can change a game on both sides of the floor, Bogut has improved dramatically but to say he is better than Dwight Howard is just ridiculous.

AI4MVP
03-10-2010, 10:49 PM
most of you havent even consistenly watched Andrew Bogut play.

Kakaroach
03-10-2010, 10:51 PM
Bogut is very under-rated, I've always said that. As good as Dwight I'm not so sure.

RadiantShot
03-10-2010, 10:51 PM
Bogut has a case.

Put Bogut on the Orlando Magic : We don't make the 2nd round.
Put Dwight on the Milwaukee Bucks : They do.

Case closed.

Swashcuff
03-10-2010, 10:53 PM
Bogut has a case.

then make it for him

Sox Appeal
03-10-2010, 10:53 PM
Put Bogut on the Orlando Magic : We don't make the 2nd round.
Put Dwight on the Milwaukee Bucks : They do.

Case closed.

The Bucks could make the second round this year. ATM, they're the 5 seed, and will be playing Atlanta in Rd1. That's a winnable series for them.

MJ-BULLS
03-10-2010, 10:55 PM
not hating on bogut, but he is not a better player than Howard.

Sure he has been on a tear and has some good posts moves, but statistically howard is better.

MTone8788
03-10-2010, 10:56 PM
Not to mention the fact that Bogut is so bad *** that he can air five multiple times in a row

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zc11PUnFgkQ

ChiSox219
03-10-2010, 10:56 PM
Put Bogut on the Orlando Magic : We don't make the 2nd round.
Put Dwight on the Milwaukee Bucks : They do.

Case closed.

Hope you don't make a living as a lawyer.

RadiantShot
03-10-2010, 10:56 PM
I don't think people realize the impacts of either players.

RadiantShot
03-10-2010, 10:57 PM
Hope you don't make a living as a lawyer.

Trust me, I won't.
Hopefully you realize I have a Matt Barnes sig! :D

td0tsfinest
03-10-2010, 10:57 PM
Bogut is having a great year and is finally living up to that 1st overall title but no way am I taking him over Dwight.

papoose123
03-10-2010, 10:59 PM
Better than Dwight?? Naaaa.. 2nd best is a more realistic statement

you username is "b.jenningsMVP"
.........u be realistic:facepalm:

RadiantShot
03-10-2010, 11:00 PM
you username is "b.jenningsMVP"
.........u be realistic:facepalm:

..Fail.
He's a Brandon Jennings fan.
He's a Bucks fan.
He rated Dwight better than Andrew Bogut.
I fail to realize what you mean.

Swashcuff
03-10-2010, 11:02 PM
most of you havent even consistenly watched Andrew Bogut play.

the guy refined his game this season instead of looking to take the charge he is looking to block the shot. He is playing tougher down inside and is asking for the ball more. He has a point guard who as bad as his fg #s are is a very good compliment to him. He has shown that he is one of the better passing bigs in the league and has show why he is a former #1 overall pick. Trust me I've seen the guy play. Is he the best C in the NBA. Sigh. Far far from it.

AI4MVP
03-10-2010, 11:03 PM
guys, the question "who is the best center in the league?" is a questin that can only be answered by an opinion, and in my opinion, Bogut is better then Dwight. Defensively, the margin is not to big between the two, but offensively, Dwight is Boguts housewive

Swashcuff
03-10-2010, 11:08 PM
guys, the question "who is the best center in the league?" is a questin that can only be answered by an opinion, and in my opinion, Bogut is better then Dwight. Defensively, the margin is not to big between the two, but offensively, Dwight is Boguts housewive

I would venture to guess that one of your "buddies" saw that you left you account open and decided to incriminate you because you are truly proving to the biggest tool on PSD in a while.

tmic13
03-10-2010, 11:09 PM
do u know who the **** dwight howard is!!!!!

ldc62
03-10-2010, 11:10 PM
Hes really really good. I dunno if hes the best center in the league. Im not a huge fan of Dwight, but Id put D12 over him right now.

cowboyz180
03-10-2010, 11:10 PM
you guys are all close minded. just becuz dwight is superman and plays for a better team and bigger market you automatically dismiss anything else. Andrew Bogut is literally 948594385930485904 times bbetter then dwight offensively, and dwight is a little bit better then bogut defensively. A LITTLE BIT. there averaging 2.5 and 2.8 blocks per game. The fact that Bogut is 948594385930485904 times better the dwight offesnively makes up for the .00001 times that dwight is better defensively

:facepalm: wow...

B.JenningsMVP
03-10-2010, 11:10 PM
you username is "b.jenningsMVP"
.........u be realistic:facepalm:

uhmm it may actually happen in the future dumbass... no one prolly thought dirk or nash would get MVP in their first year, but look what happened.... anything can happen..

RadiantShot
03-10-2010, 11:12 PM
guys, the question "who is the best center in the league?" is a questin that can only be answered by an opinion, and in my opinion, Bogut is better then Dwight. Defensively, the margin is not to big between the two, but offensively, Dwight is Boguts housewive

:facepalm:

Dwight : 18.6 PPG (60% FG)
Bogut : 16.2 PPG (53% FG)

Anything else?

Melo15
03-10-2010, 11:14 PM
do u know who the **** dwight howard is!!!!!

:clap:

AI4MVP
03-10-2010, 11:14 PM
please dont try to make a case that dwight is offensively better then bogut. i dont caer what the numbers say,

MTone8788
03-10-2010, 11:15 PM
11/28/2009 Magic-100 Buck-98

Dwight had 25 points, 20 rebs, 4 blocks.
Bogut did not play.
----------------------

12/30/2009 Magic-117 Bucks-92

Dwight had 17 points, 11 rebs, 2 blocks
Bogut had 15 points, 10 rebs, 1 block
----------------------------

02/02/2010 Magic-99 Bucks-82

Dwight had 22 points, 11 rebs, 5 blocks
Bogut had 10 points, 10 rebs, 3 blocks
-------------------------------------

Factor in that Dwight is a year younger, and already a perennial all star.

Dwight is better. No knock on Bogut, he is a very good center.

Swashcuff
03-10-2010, 11:16 PM
:facepalm:

Dwight : 18.6 PPG (60% FG)
Bogut : 16.2 PPG (53% FG)

Anything else?

No point in debating this. You won a loonnngg time ago.

Swashcuff
03-10-2010, 11:18 PM
I'm leaving the thread because AI4MVP's level of *******NESS is off the scales. This discussion is pointless.

Melo15
03-10-2010, 11:19 PM
please dont try to make a case that dwight is offensively better then bogut. i dont caer what the numbers say,

If were playing that game then I say that J.J. Hickson is a better scorer than LeBron. Please don't try and make a case with numbers I don't care what numbers say because all they do is prove me wrong ;)

MTone8788
03-10-2010, 11:20 PM
11/28/2009 Magic-100 Buck-98

Dwight had 25 points, 20 rebs, 4 blocks.
Bogut did not play.
----------------------

12/30/2009 Magic-117 Bucks-92

Dwight had 17 points, 11 rebs, 2 blocks
Bogut had 15 points, 10 rebs, 1 block
----------------------------

02/02/2010 Magic-99 Bucks-82

Dwight had 22 points, 11 rebs, 5 blocks
Bogut had 10 points, 10 rebs, 3 blocks
-------------------------------------

Factor in that Dwight is a year younger, and already a perennial all star.

Dwight is better. No knock on Bogut, he is a very good center.

^

mlisica19
03-10-2010, 11:21 PM
Dwight Howard has the dunk, any hands all hands. Hes all power and hes a rocket that hardly doesnt finish all the way through with his dunks. Hes avg more points, more steals, more blocks, more assits and MORE rebounds. Hes not even his teams #1 point guy either, yet he powers his way cuz hes so good so deep under the basket that he often can make an easy basket, why? cuz hes soooo goood. And his offense isnt his biggest asset, its his rebounds. Not only is he one of the tallest in the league, he probably has one of the leagues best leaps. Hes the hulk, forget superman. He can overpower most big men. Against Bogut he even has a better FT and FG percentage. Within the last 2 months hes avg nearly if not over 20 points per game and more blocks. All the same time at helping his team reach a high seed status. And this is just Howard, who has much more potential. Imagine if he was his teams most valuable forward?

Amare Stoudamire clogs up the basket zone for his team, doesnt work well with fellow big men and most of his team. He was going 2 be traded, for his own sake he should have been. Yet hes the best center year in and year out. Hes the most complete center as of now. Not many players in general can stop his offensive force. Who can stop his highflying dunk, his aggressive ability

Chris Bosh often plays center, yet not a true center he is a high scoring and tough defender. Hes the X factor from Toronto missing or makingthe playoiffs

Brook Lopez is on a horrible team yet he has yet to quit. Hes the only one on his team hustling offensively and defensively. What if he had more help? Hes avg more points, similar rebounds and more assists. His defense needs work but hes a sophomore


Bogut is a good center, maybe right now top 5 TRUE center but no way is he #1. I can see a #2 or #3 but u have 2 show me some good evidence for #1

harlequin018
03-10-2010, 11:22 PM
I love Bogut, thats why I drafted him in fantasy. But he's obviously not better than Dwight (who changes the game yet only takes 8 shots or so). He's not better than Duncan (who's a center despite his tag), but he's right below that class. Of all the young guys, including Marc Gasol, Bynum, Brook Lopez and Chris Kaman, Bogut has the most mature game at the moment. I think Marc will eventually become better defensively, but I can see Bogut being the third best center in the league.

AI4MVP
03-10-2010, 11:25 PM
boget is the most unstoppable post scorer in the nba and blocks as many shots as dwight does and averages double digit boards. his offense makes him a better player then howard. if he played for a big market team and was surrounded by great players like jameer nelson, rashard lewis, vince carter, ect., then you guys wouldnt be so against this.

but you guys are all close minded

MagicAllDay
03-10-2010, 11:26 PM
dwight howard is absolutely better than bogut so is...

pau gasol
amar'e stoudemire
chris bosh
al jefferson
brook lopez
my mom
kendrick perkins
marc gasol
yao ming
etc
etc
etc

nice try twisting the stats to make bogut look better. if bogut was a better offensive player (which he isnt, try watching a magic game once in a while) then he would be averaging more points a game than howard, right? well he isnt. and playing on a team with less talent would give bogut more opportunities to score than howard bc howards touches would be limited. howard has a higher ft% and fg% along with more ppg, more rebounds per game and more blocks per game plus he alters shots like no one else in the league. if you honestly think that andrew bogut is the best center in the league or better than dwight howard then you have quite an imagination because there isnt a single pertinent statistic that would suggest that he is. being in a smaller market has nothing to do with it. kevin durant plays in oklahoma and gets the credit he deserves, as does al jefferson in minnesota, zach randolph in memphis etc. bogut is a mediocre center. hes not terrible, hes a solid player but theres a reason hes never been on an all star team or even mentioned in a top defensive player conversation. hes not an elite player. period.

D-Will4Prez
03-10-2010, 11:27 PM
Bogut is my man :)

RadiantShot
03-10-2010, 11:28 PM
boget is the most unstoppable post scorer in the nba and blocks as many shots as dwight does and averages double digit boards. his offense makes him a better player then howard. if he played for a big market team and was surrounded by great players like jameer nelson, rashard lewis, vince carter, ect., then you guys wouldnt be so against this.

but you guys are all close minded

Yeah, we're close-minded, call it what you want.
This is almost like saying Craig Ehlo better than Michael Jordan. Stop it.

And that's such an idiotic statement. I never get why people say, 'He has a better surrounding cast.'

That would make it harder for him to score..? More people getting the ball = Dwight get's less attempts.

Bogut is on an average team with average players besides Jennings. Even then, he's still a rook.

Bogut SHOULD be averaging MORE than Dwight.

I'm done arguing, you're pointless on PSD.

AI4MVP
03-10-2010, 11:29 PM
dwight howard is absolutely better than bogut so is...

pau gasol
amar'e stoudemire
chris bosh
al jefferson
brook lopez
my mom
kendrick perkins
marc gasol
yao ming
etc
etc
etc

nice try twisting the stats to make bogut look better. if bogut was a better offensive player (which he isnt, try watching a magic game once in a while) then he would be averaging more points a game than howard, right? well he isnt. and playing on a team with less talent would give bogut more opportunities to score than howard bc howards touches would be limited. howard has a higher ft% and fg% along with more ppg, more rebounds per game and more blocks per game plus he alters shots like no one else in the league. if you honestly think that andrew bogut is the best center in the league or better than dwight howard then you have quite an imagination because there isnt a single pertinent statistic that would suggest that he is. being in a smaller market has nothing to do with it. kevin durant plays in oklahoma and gets the credit he deserves, as does al jefferson in minnesota, zach randolph in memphis etc. bogut is a mediocre center. hes not terrible, hes a solid player but theres a reason hes never been on an all star team or even mentioned in a top defensive player conversation. hes not an elite player. period.

im not gunna directly argue with u becuz ur a magic fan and obvioulsy ur opinion will be biased, but how can u say kendrick perkins is a better center then bogut? bogut absolutely made perkins his biotch last night, and im not even talking about dunking it hard in his face. throught the whole game

ghostofalleiter
03-10-2010, 11:29 PM
You know, i've been reading these forums for a while and only recently started posting. All you self-righteous sports experts would really do well to calm down with the cynicism and attitude. As if anyone here is really qualified to summarily shut someone else down. It's really obnoxious.

The short answer to the question posed is, no, Bogut is not a better C than Dwight Howard. Is it an absurd conversation? No. Is there something to be said about certain skills that Bogut has over Howard? Yes. Does any of this require pre-teen name calling and endlessly annoying facepalms. Definitely not.

Bogut's a better offensive player. He scores with post moves and hustle, his game is refined in a way Dwight's may never be (or need to be). Also, teams have the luxury of keying in on him more because his secondary options are not great. Howard has Nelson, Carter, Lewis, Pietrus, Anderson ect. keeping defenses honest on the perimeter. His post game, though, has improved. As has his FT shooting, it would seem. If he continues to progress this way then Bogut has no chance due to his physical limitations.

Who would you take over Bogut, besides Howard? Yao when he's healthy, maybe the potential of a healthy Greg Oden. Kaman? I don't think so...anyone else? Perkins MAYBE just because he's such a good defender.

It's not like the poor guy asked if Eric Dampier was better than D12, give him a break...

MTone8788
03-10-2010, 11:30 PM
boget is the most unstoppable post scorer in the nba and blocks as many shots as dwight does and averages double digit boards. his offense makes him a better player then howard. if he played for a big market team and was surrounded by great players like jameer nelson, rashard lewis, vince carter, ect., then you guys wouldnt be so against this.

but you guys are all close minded

Wow you need to relax. No one is denying Bogut's talent. Dwight averages taking 3 less shots than bogut per game but still averages more points.

MTone8788
03-10-2010, 11:31 PM
You know, i've been reading these forums for a while and only recently started posting. All you self-righteous sports experts would really do well to calm down with the cynicism and attitude. As if anyone here is really qualified to summarily shut someone else down. It's really obnoxious.

The short answer to the question posed is, no, Bogut is not a better C than Dwight Howard. Is it an absurd conversation? No. Is there something to be said about certain skills that Bogut has over Howard? Yes. Does any of this require pre-teen name calling and endlessly annoying facepalms. Definitely not.

Bogut's a better offensive player. He scores with post moves and hustle, his game is refined in a way Dwight's may never be (or need to be). Also, teams have the luxury of keying in on him more because his secondary options are not great. Howard has Nelson, Carter, Lewis, Pietrus, Anderson ect. keeping defenses honest on the perimeter. His post game, though, has improved. As has his FT shooting, it would seem. If he continues to progress this way then Bogut has no chance due to his physical limitations.

Who would you take over Bogut, besides Howard? Yao when he's healthy, maybe the potential of a healthy Greg Oden. Kaman? I don't think so...anyone else? Perkins MAYBE just because he's such a good defender.

It's not like the poor guy asked if Eric Dampier was better than D12, give him a break...


:facepalm:








































IM KIDDING! Only because you mentioned face palms

AI4MVP
03-10-2010, 11:31 PM
i wouldnt even say dwight howard is the second best center in the league

1a/1b=andrew bogut and healthy yao ming

3=dwight howard

ghostofalleiter
03-10-2010, 11:33 PM
dwight howard is absolutely better than bogut so is...

pau gasol
amar'e stoudemire
chris bosh
al jefferson
brook lopez
my mom
kendrick perkins
marc gasol
yao ming
etc
etc
etc

nice try twisting the stats to make bogut look better. if bogut was a better offensive player (which he isnt, try watching a magic game once in a while) then he would be averaging more points a game than howard, right? well he isnt. and playing on a team with less talent would give bogut more opportunities to score than howard bc howards touches would be limited. howard has a higher ft% and fg% along with more ppg, more rebounds per game and more blocks per game plus he alters shots like no one else in the league. if you honestly think that andrew bogut is the best center in the league or better than dwight howard then you have quite an imagination because there isnt a single pertinent statistic that would suggest that he is. being in a smaller market has nothing to do with it. kevin durant plays in oklahoma and gets the credit he deserves, as does al jefferson in minnesota, zach randolph in memphis etc. bogut is a mediocre center. hes not terrible, hes a solid player but theres a reason hes never been on an all star team or even mentioned in a top defensive player conversation. hes not an elite player. period.

amare, bosh, pao and jefferson are not true centers. playing me at the five does not make him a center. tim duncan is more of a center than any of those guys and no mention of him. phrases like "there's a reason he's never made an all star team" are so woefully ignorant. what reasons? his defensive rotations? his poor decision making on the offensive end? what are they? don't discount his lack of notariety due to market. its so clear that anyone willing to challenge your beloved howard really ruffles your feathers. get over it.

AI4MVP
03-10-2010, 11:33 PM
and most of you guys think i hate D12 prolly. u couldnt be more wrong. hes actually one of my favorite players in the league. i love players that are great rebounders and defenders like him. i just believe that bogut is more well rounded

toovey107
03-10-2010, 11:34 PM
Wow I'm not one to ignore people that I'm not going to encounter in my team's forum on a consistent basis, but you are probably one of the most irrational, ignorant posters I've seen in awhile.

Wonder why I hate the state of Wisconsin so much, ignore list you go.

rapjuicer06
03-10-2010, 11:34 PM
guys, the question "who is the best center in the league?" is a questin that can only be answered by an opinion, and in my opinion, Bogut is better then Dwight. Defensively, the margin is not to big between the two, but offensively, Dwight is Boguts housewive

2 games against each other this year.

bogut-11-26-25 points, 20 boards, 4 blocks, 0 steals, 64 min. played, 2 L's
howard-15-20-39 points, 21 boards, 7 blocks, 2 steals, 55 min. played, 2 W's

so it looks like howard out did bogut in everything, and played 10 min. less....now lets go to something else...

howard-17.5ppg, 12.6 rpg, 2.1 bpg, 57.2% from the field-472 career games 471 games started. max for 6 years in the league-492 and he's started and this season isn't done yet

bogut-12.7 ppg, 9 rpg, 1.3 bpg, 53.4% from the field. 319 games played, 311 games started. max for 5 years in the league 410. has missed 63 more games than dwight, not counting this season.

ooh and another thing....
dwight nba final appearances-1
bogut-0

dwight is the best player on his team that has reached the finals the previous year and is currently on a top 3 team in the nba

bogut isn't the best player on his team and is currently 5th in the eastern conference.....

ghostofalleiter
03-10-2010, 11:34 PM
:facepalm:








































Im kidding! Only because you mentioned face palms


lol

Swashcuff
03-10-2010, 11:36 PM
Beat this dumbass AI4MVP

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=howardw01&p2=bogutan01

Who's better?

MagicAllDay
03-10-2010, 11:37 PM
im not gunna directly argue with u becuz ur a magic fan and obvioulsy ur opinion will be biased, but how can u say kendrick perkins is a better center then bogut? bogut absolutely made perkins his biotch last night, and im not even talking about dunking it hard in his face. throught the whole game


haha im not gonna sit here and have a whos better perkins or bogut bc honestly i dont care about that. my point is perkins is one of the most underrated centers in the league and is a great post defender. bogut isnt on the same level as dwight howard. thats not being biased. if you know anything about basketball youd know that.

AI4MVP
03-10-2010, 11:38 PM
ok this is my LAST POST

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...1&p2=bogutan01

Who's better?

yeah maybe in fricking 2005 til last year dwight was better, which makes those stats what it looks like, but bogut is better then him this year

BaustinSali08
03-10-2010, 11:41 PM
yeah maybe in fricking 2005 til last year dwight was better, which makes those stats what it looks like, but bogut is better then him this year

Stop!!!!.......Hammer Time :dance:

pujolsdabomb5
03-10-2010, 11:42 PM
He might be the most underrated center in the league, but certainly not the best

AI4MVP
03-10-2010, 11:42 PM
whatever. u guys obvioulsy havent seen bogut play very much

/thread

MagicAllDay
03-10-2010, 11:42 PM
amare, bosh, pao and jefferson are not true centers. playing me at the five does not make him a center. tim duncan is more of a center than any of those guys and no mention of him. phrases like "there's a reason he's never made an all star team" are so woefully ignorant. what reasons? his defensive rotations? his poor decision making on the offensive end? what are they? don't discount his lack of notariety due to market. its so clear that anyone willing to challenge your beloved howard really ruffles your feathers. get over it.


hahaha i dont care that its dwight howard. if someone said amar'e is better id say they have more of a case. to me a statement like bogut is better than howard is like saying oj mayo is better than dwayne wade. it doesnt have so much to do with the fact hes a magic player bc i will willing cut down many of the guys on the magic roster but there really isnt any case i can see that bogut is a top tier player in the nba. criticizing someone on my team is fine. but an outlandish comparison will make me say something

rapjuicer06
03-10-2010, 11:44 PM
yeah maybe in fricking 2005 til last year dwight was better, which makes those stats what it looks like, but bogut is better then him this year

how?

AI4MVP
03-10-2010, 11:45 PM
i dont get why you think its such an absurd statement. even on nba fastbreak last night they said that bogut is the 2nd best center in the league.

Brew Crew
03-10-2010, 11:46 PM
here ya go dumbass....


bogut isn't the best player on his team and is currently 5th in the eastern conference.....



I'm not gonna argue this argument because this shouldn't even be an argument, or thread, but for that comment, you're a dumbass.

And I'd also like to add that some of you really need to loosen up the ESPN blinders. I can't believe some of the people you guys would put over Bogut. It's actually pretty funny.

MrFastBreak
03-10-2010, 11:48 PM
I know alot of you are going to freak out, especially becuz hes a player that h as nevver been in an all star game, isnt really a big name, and plays in a small market, but andrew bogut is the best center in the nba.


Defensively, hes been just as much as a block machine as Dwight Howard, as Bogut is averaging 2.5 blocks per game.

Hes been a a great rebounder this year and is averaging double digit boards.

but what really separates him in my opinion is his offensive game. His post moves are un matched, and his left-handed hook shot is prolly the most unstoppable shot in the nba right now. Hes unstoppable in the post, and doesnt even need any athletiscm to do it. Dont let the only 16 point per game fool you. if bogut was a first option he could average in the 20's without a doubt.

I know Dwights numbers are better, but Bogut has a much better all around game and is equaling Dwight in blocks



I know everyone is gunna hate on me for this becuz Dwight has more of the star power and Milwaukee isnt a very watched team.


discuss

Your claiming people havent watched the Bucks so Im guessing youve been watching them a lot, but how could you consistently watch them and not know Boguts their first option? Im shocked at the fact that no one has mentioned this yet.

xxseven72ducexx
03-10-2010, 11:48 PM
Andrew Bogut is not the best center in the league...that goes to Hasheem Thabeet

rapjuicer06
03-10-2010, 11:49 PM
i dont get why you think its such an absurd statement. even on nba fastbreak last night they said that bogut is the 2nd best center in the league.

:eyebrow:

that statement alone makes you look like a clown...your saying he's handsdown the best center in the league, when nba analysis say he's the second best....hahahahaha thats just funny...

AI4MVP
03-10-2010, 11:50 PM
Your claiming people havent watched the Bucks so Im guessing youve been watching them a lot, but how could you consistently watch them and not know Boguts their first option?


i meant it as in he needs more touches

NYtilIdie
03-10-2010, 11:51 PM
You have a thing for make outrageous statements. First the Jennings thread, then the Monta Ellis is a Top 10 player thread, and now this.

:facepalm:

Bogut is the 3rd best center in the game behind Kaman and D12

AI4MVP
03-10-2010, 11:51 PM
that statement alone makes you look like a clown...your saying he's handsdown the best center in the league, when nba analysis say he's the second best....hahahahaha thats just funny...

no, im saying that since analysists say that hes second best, im not completely absurd and far off like u guys are claming that i am by saying hes the best. at the very least, it is debatable

ugafan
03-10-2010, 11:51 PM
Bunch of posts are about to be deleted, haha, I see dbroncos in here.

I think Dwight is better, but it's insane some of the people that are getting rated above Bogut. He's much better than Perkins, I would say he's top 7. Dwight is considerably better defensively, and a little better offensively as well, but you have to consider the calibur of players Dwight plays with. Nelson, Vinsanity, Rashard Lewis, etc.

Bogut has Jennings, who's just now learning how to be a true PG.

Raph12
03-10-2010, 11:52 PM
I know alot of you are going to freak out, especially becuz hes a player that h as nevver been in an all star game, isnt really a big name, and plays in a small market, but andrew bogut is the best center in the nba.


Defensively, hes been just as much as a block machine as Dwight Howard, as Bogut is averaging 2.5 blocks per game.

Hes been a a great rebounder this year and is averaging double digit boards.

but what really separates him in my opinion is his offensive game. His post moves are un matched, and his left-handed hook shot is prolly the most unstoppable shot in the nba right now. Hes unstoppable in the post, and doesnt even need any athletiscm to do it. Dont let the only 16 point per game fool you. if bogut was a first option he could average in the 20's without a doubt.

I know Dwights numbers are better, but Bogut has a much better all around game and is equaling Dwight in blocks



I know everyone is gunna hate on me for this becuz Dwight has more of the star power and Milwaukee isnt a very watched team.


discuss

Dude you're an idiot, Dwight is much better on defense and his offensive game, though not as polished as Bogut's, is better in the sense that he can score on anyone, whereas Bogut cannot. Hell even when they play one-another, Dwight destroys him on both ends everytime...

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=howardw01&p2=bogutan01

Stop living in your own fantasy world buddy, it's not even close:
1. Dwight
.
.
.
.
.
2. Who Cares

Clutch6
03-10-2010, 11:52 PM
Hes a great player but his athletisism is nothing compared to Dwights. I would still rather have Dwight for a franchise, one game, or a season.

rapjuicer06
03-10-2010, 11:54 PM
I'm not gonna argue this argument because this shouldn't even be an argument, or thread, but for that comment, you're a dumbass.

And I'd also like to add that some of you really need to loosen up the ESPN blinders. I can't believe some of the people you guys would put over Bogut. It's actually pretty funny.

ok, hes the best player on a bad team...is that better? he's barely better than jennings...he's the teams number one option while dwights number 4....but dwight carries his team, does it all for his team. teams alter their gameplan because of dwight howard. there is no team that fears bogut hahaha

chitownbears89
03-10-2010, 11:54 PM
you guys are all close minded. just becuz dwight is superman and plays for a better team and bigger market you automatically dismiss anything else. Andrew Bogut is literally 948594385930485904 times bbetter then dwight offensively, and dwight is a little bit better then bogut defensively. A LITTLE BIT. there averaging 2.5 and 2.8 blocks per game. The fact that Bogut is 948594385930485904 times better the dwight offesnively makes up for the .00001 times that dwight is better defensively

You do realise that when you multiply by .00001 it decreases. So what your statement is really saying is that bogut is better than dwight on D. But then you add that word better and it completely obliterates what ever the hell your trying to say. It makes no sense what so ever. If your gonna use math at least use it right. Its multiplication you learned it in the first grade. For example 5 times .0001 equals .0005 and 100000 times .00001
equals 1. Get it. :facepalm:

brisk002
03-10-2010, 11:55 PM
dwight howard is absolutely better than bogut so is...

pau gasol
amar'e stoudemire
chris bosh
al jefferson
brook lopez
my mom
kendrick perkins
marc gasol
yao ming
etc
etc
etc

nice try twisting the stats to make bogut look better. if bogut was a better offensive player (which he isnt, try watching a magic game once in a while) then he would be averaging more points a game than howard, right? well he isnt. and playing on a team with less talent would give bogut more opportunities to score than howard bc howards touches would be limited. howard has a higher ft% and fg% along with more ppg, more rebounds per game and more blocks per game plus he alters shots like no one else in the league. if you honestly think that andrew bogut is the best center in the league or better than dwight howard then you have quite an imagination because there isnt a single pertinent statistic that would suggest that he is. being in a smaller market has nothing to do with it. kevin durant plays in oklahoma and gets the credit he deserves, as does al jefferson in minnesota, zach randolph in memphis etc. bogut is a mediocre center. hes not terrible, hes a solid player but theres a reason hes never been on an all star team or even mentioned in a top defensive player conversation. hes not an elite player. period.

Man some of you people are so stupid. You want to know why you are stupid?
Pau Gasol-PF

Amare Stoudemire-PF

Chris Bosh-PF

Al Jefferson- C, on a terrible team w only scoring options being Kevin Love and Johnny Flynn? Not to mention his near career ending injury last year?

Brook Lopez- Idk how you can say he is better than Bogut when he plays on the worst team in basketball. Lets say he was a top C. Wouldn't his team be a lot better then dead last? Miami minus D Wade is one of the worst teams. When he plays they atleast make the playoffs. I dont buy your claim that someone on such a bad team can be sooooooo good..

Your mom- Your mom must have a very big penis....

Kendrick Perkins- WTF are you smoking... I'd take Joel Pryzbella over him

Marc Gasol- Not even top 5 C, and you dont draft Thabeet if Gasol is one of the best C's in the game.


Originally Posted by RadiantShot


Dwight : 18.6 PPG (60% FG)
Bogut : 16.2 PPG (53% FG)

Anything else?

Jeez 60%! Howard must have a great jumpshot. O wait, he has no shot, and 1/3 of his shots are slam dunks.

rapjuicer06
03-10-2010, 11:55 PM
i meant it as in he needs more touches

hahahaha he already gets more than dwight, and still scores less....

MrFastBreak
03-10-2010, 11:57 PM
i meant it as in he needs more touches
Why does he need more touches? Hes the second player on the Bucks in FGA's.

Ragun
03-10-2010, 11:57 PM
top 2 centers are definitely dwight and bogut.

bogut has more offensive power but howard's presence on defense gives him the advantage defensively.

i would take howard over bogut right now because of his presence.

ugafan
03-10-2010, 11:59 PM
top 2 centers are definitely dwight and bogut.

bogut has more offensive power but howard's presence on defense gives him the advantage defensively.

i would take howard over bogut right now because of his presence.

Don't act like you don't consider penis size :p

rapjuicer06
03-10-2010, 11:59 PM
Man some of you people are so stupid. You want to know why you are stupid?
Pau Gasol-PF

Amare Stoudemire-PF

Chris Bosh-PF

Al Jefferson- C, on a terrible team w only scoring options being Kevin Love and Johnny Flynn? Not to mention his near career ending injury last year?

Brook Lopez- Idk how you can say he is better than Bogut when he plays on the worst team in basketball. Lets say he was a top C. Wouldn't his team be a lot better then dead last? Miami minus D Wade is one of the worst teams. When he plays they atleast make the playoffs. I dont buy your claim that someone on such a bad team can be sooooooo good..

Your mom- Your mom must have a very big penis....

Kendrick Perkins- WTF are you smoking... I'd take Joel Pryzbella over him

Marc Gasol- Not even top 5 C, and you dont draft Thabeet if Gasol is one of the best C's in the game.



Jeez 60%! Howard must have a great jumpshot. O wait, he has no shot, and 1/3 of his shots are slam dunks.

about 1/4 of lebrons are dunks? whats your point? dwights worse because he can dunk? and boguts better because he can't? hmm nice argument...i guess shaq only dunked 1/10 of the time? hahaha

montazingmvp
03-11-2010, 12:00 AM
dwight howard is absolutely better than bogut so is...

pau gasol
amar'e stoudemire
chris bosh
al jefferson
brook lopez
my mom
kendrick perkins
marc gasol
yao ming
etc
etc
etc

nice try twisting the stats to make bogut look better. if bogut was a better offensive player (which he isnt, try watching a magic game once in a while) then he would be averaging more points a game than howard, right? well he isnt. and playing on a team with less talent would give bogut more opportunities to score than howard bc howards touches would be limited. howard has a higher ft% and fg% along with more ppg, more rebounds per game and more blocks per game plus he alters shots like no one else in the league. if you honestly think that andrew bogut is the best center in the league or better than dwight howard then you have quite an imagination because there isnt a single pertinent statistic that would suggest that he is. being in a smaller market has nothing to do with it. kevin durant plays in oklahoma and gets the credit he deserves, as does al jefferson in minnesota, zach randolph in memphis etc. bogut is a mediocre center. hes not terrible, hes a solid player but theres a reason hes never been on an all star team or even mentioned in a top defensive player conversation. hes not an elite player. period.

you're an absolute idiot if you think any of these players are better than bogut...

he's not at dwights level right now, but lately he's been playing just as well if not better than him

rapjuicer06
03-11-2010, 12:01 AM
you're an absolute idiot if you think any of these players are better than bogut...

he's not at dwights level right now, but lately he's been playing just as well if not better than him

no, he hasn't actually

ghostofalleiter
03-11-2010, 12:02 AM
fair enough magicallday, my point is just that there is some merit to what ai4mvp is saying.

the argument is taking two different turns. dwight howard has a much bigger effect on the game, mostly due to his athleticism and defensive ability. bogut is a more developed player in terms of the skills of the game.

MagicAllDay
03-11-2010, 12:04 AM
Man some of you people are so stupid. You want to know why you are stupid?
Pau Gasol-PF

Amare Stoudemire-PF

Chris Bosh-PF

Al Jefferson- C, on a terrible team w only scoring options being Kevin Love and Johnny Flynn? Not to mention his near career ending injury last year?

Brook Lopez- Idk how you can say he is better than Bogut when he plays on the worst team in basketball. Lets say he was a top C. Wouldn't his team be a lot better then dead last? Miami minus D Wade is one of the worst teams. When he plays they atleast make the playoffs. I dont buy your claim that someone on such a bad team can be sooooooo good..

Your mom- Your mom must have a very big penis....

Kendrick Perkins- WTF are you smoking... I'd take Joel Pryzbella over him

Marc Gasol- Not even top 5 C, and you dont draft Thabeet if Gasol is one of the best C's in the game.



Jeez 60%! Howard must have a great jumpshot. O wait, he has no shot, and 1/3 of his shots are slam dunks.

first of all gasol bosh and stoudemire do play the 5 so i dont know what youre talking about. if bynum is in the game gasol will shift to the 4 as will amare if lopez is playing but they are centers big guy. and bosh also plays the 4

and as for my mom having a penis? sorry dude she doesnt. dont get so worked up over an internet thread. its called a joke. bogut isnt better than howard and he isnt an elite center. hes def a good player im not arguing that but like someone else on this thread said its

#1 howard
.
.
.
.
#2 who cares

try watching an entire magic game once in awhile. d12's offensive game has developed. hes def still a long ways away from polished but he has moves other than dunking.

montazingmvp
03-11-2010, 12:12 AM
no, he hasn't actually

in march howard is avg'ing

18ppg 12.4rpg 2.2apg 1spg 2.2bpg 3.6topg 59%fg 59%ft

bogut is avg'ing

18.5ppg 9.5rpg 2.5apg 1spg 4.25bpg 1.5topg 55%fg 86%ft

so yes he is playing at dwights level of recently...probably better...

see this is what one does when they have an argument...they make a case, you know, provide evidence...

when you start going to school you will learn this...

now run along little one

montazingmvp
03-11-2010, 12:14 AM
You have a thing for make outrageous statements. First the Jennings thread, then the Monta Ellis is a Top 10 player thread, and now this.

:facepalm:

Bogut is the 3rd best center in the game behind Kaman and D12

kaman is not very good...

he's scores with terrible efficiency, and plays little to no defense...

MTone8788
03-11-2010, 12:15 AM
in march howard is avg'ing

18ppg 12.4rpg 2.2apg 1spg 2.2bpg 3.6topg 59%fg 59%ft

bogut is avg'ing

18.5ppg 9.5rpg 2.5apg 1spg 4.25bpg 1.5topg 55%fg 86%ft

so yes he is playing at dwights level of recently...probably better...

see this is what one does when they have an argument...they make a case, you know, provide evidence...

when you start going to school you will learn this...

now run along little one

That is true. But in their matchups AGAINST EACHOTHER Dwight came out on top easily.

HouRealCoach
03-11-2010, 12:17 AM
I dont agree with the title but I understand because Bogut can score and rebound, block shots, Pass, and WIN... He doesnt have much talent but I always said that Bucks made the right decision choosing Bogut first...

But Kendrick Perkins being better then Andrew Bogut??????????????:pity:

rapjuicer06
03-11-2010, 12:18 AM
in march howard is avg'ing

18ppg 12.4rpg 2.2apg 1spg 2.2bpg 3.6topg 59%fg 59%ft

bogut is avg'ing

18.5ppg 9.5rpg 2.5apg 1spg 4.25bpg 1.5topg 55%fg 86%ft

so yes he is playing at dwights level of recently...probably better...

see this is what one does when they have an argument...they make a case, you know, provide evidence...

when you start going to school you will learn this...

now run along little one

hahahaha 5 games from dwight? ok how about from the all star break?

howard-21.5 ppg, 10.4 rpg, 3.1 bpg
bogut-16.9 ppg, 9.9 rpg, 2.5 bpg

yea, bogut is tearing dwight a new one...your taking the fact into play where dwight didn't really play against the 76ers-24 min. and the lakers he couldn't play at all because of the officiating was God awful. so yea, 1/4 of a month doesn't mean anything

montazingmvp
03-11-2010, 12:18 AM
That is true. But in their matchups AGAINST EACHOTHER Dwight came out on top easily.

yup...cuz he's just better...not by a lot but he is.

you have to take into consideration that there is also a lot less pressure on dwight than there is on bogut to provide for his team...

dwight is the anchor on defense but on offense he is essentially there to clean up misses and throw it down when his players open it up for him...which he is verrry good at...

they run very few plays for him, because he's not that good of a passer out of the double team and doesn't really have a go to move that he can consistently rely on..

HouRealCoach
03-11-2010, 12:20 AM
That is true. But in their matchups AGAINST EACHOTHER Dwight came out on top easily.

So I guess there was no arguement between Yao and Howard cause head-2head Yao got the best of him each time

montazingmvp
03-11-2010, 12:22 AM
hahahaha 4 games from dwight? ok how about from the all star break?

howard-21.5 ppg, 10.4 rpg, 3.1 bpg
bogut-16.9 ppg, 9.9 rpg, 2.5 bpg

yea, bogut is tearing dwight a new one...your taking the fact into play where dwight didn't really play against the 76ers-24 min. and the lakers he couldn't play at all because of the officiating was God awful. so yea, 1/4 of a month doesn't mean anything

and you're completely misconstruing my words...i said recently bogut has been playing at dwights level and maybe a little better...

never said "bogut is tearing dwight a new one...

and besides that howard is avg'ing 4.6 more ppg, 0.5 more rpg, and 0.6 more bpg since the all star break as you put it...

thats not significantly more...

so my point stands...

AirCanada15ORL
03-11-2010, 12:24 AM
Dwight has a much bigger impact I'd say. And is the better Center.

1. Howard
2. Yao
3. Bogut

He is underrated tho. Should have been All Star. Horford? not so much.

sugarrayray
03-11-2010, 12:25 AM
2nd best. He has a better post game than Howard but Howard is a better defender. I also think Howard makes a bigger impact on the game.

Howard in NOT the better defender. Bogut is much better one on one. Also, so many of Howard's blocks go straight out of bounds because he's trying to look cool. Bogut's blocks usually always go directly to his teammates, because he knows how to control his blocks. Controlling blocks is a huge asset that most shot blockers don't possess.

Bogut is also always in the top 5 players in the entire league in charges drawn, year after year. And drawing a charge is actually better for your team than blocking a shot.


The guy is second in the league in blocks, top 5 in charges drawn, and averages double digit rebounds per game. He is also a TRUE center. His free throw percentage is also rising by the day. If he's not the best now, he will definitely be the best by next year, no question,

Howard is much more athletic, but Bogues has more talent. It just took him a little longer to cultivate all that talent.

kingpayne40
03-11-2010, 12:27 AM
hahahah whose the #1 option on their team then plz dnt say BJ cuz its not

sugarrayray
03-11-2010, 12:27 AM
about 1/4 of lebrons are dunks? whats your point? dwights worse because he can dunk? and boguts better because he can't? hmm nice argument...i guess shaq only dunked 1/10 of the time? hahaha

If you think Bogut can't dunk why don't you check out his facial of the year on Glen Davis from Tuesday night's game.

sugarrayray
03-11-2010, 12:29 AM
Dude you're an idiot, Dwight is much better on defense and his offensive game, though not as polished as Bogut's, is better in the sense that he can score on anyone, whereas Bogut cannot. Hell even when they play one-another, Dwight destroys him on both ends everytime...

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=howardw01&p2=bogutan01

Stop living in your own fantasy world buddy, it's not even close:
1. Dwight
.
.
.
.
.
2. Who Cares

Wow...You sound pretty ignorant.

Kyben36
03-11-2010, 12:30 AM
good but no where near the best

Kaman
Dwight
Lopez ( Brook )


all way better than Bogut, now, Bogut is probably easily 2nd tier, but not even close to top.

sugarrayray
03-11-2010, 12:32 AM
By the way, right now John Salmons is leading the Bucks in points per game. The Bucks really have 2 first options that switch each game, with Jennings definitely being the first option at times as well. But I'd say Bogut is their number one option over all. He proved that as he humiliated Kendrick Weakins of the Celtics the other night.

AirCanada15ORL
03-11-2010, 12:32 AM
I don't think people realize the impacts of either players.
I dont think you understand Boguts impact on the BUcks. The Bucks are not a playoff team without Bogut, Bogut is the reason the BUcks are on the rise and the 5th seed in the East.

Hearing Dwight Howard you think oh my god superman, incredible athleticism, strength, size, good look for the media as a poster boy, hyped by media.
Therefore anything not favored towards Dwight in terms of being the best Center will prolly be dismissed.
But the truth is Bogut is not that far behind Dwight in terms of how good he is.
Even ethough Bogut is like the opposite, slouchy, fat, white, greasy hair, not that athletic, not flashy, not a highlight machine.
Dont get me wrong. Dwight Howard is hands down the best center in the league, but Bogut should be getting talked about as the 2nd or 3rd best by now (2nd assuming Yao is out of the talks)

sugarrayray
03-11-2010, 12:33 AM
good but no where near the best

Kaman
Dwight
Lopez ( Brook )


all way better than Bogut, now, Bogut is probably easily 2nd tier, but not even close to top.

Your just putting up that foolishness because your mad that the Bucks are so much better than the Bulls. Your list is way off.

ChiSox219
03-11-2010, 12:34 AM
I dont think you understand Boguts impact on the BUcks. The Bucks are not a playoff team without Bogut, Bogut is the reason the BUcks are on the rise and the 5th seed in the East.

Hearing Dwight Howard you think oh my god superman, incredible athleticism, strength, size, good look for the media as a poster boy, hyped by media.
Therefore anything not favored towards Dwight in terms of being the best Center will prolly be dismissed.
But the truth is Bogut is not that far behind Dwight in terms of how good he is.
Even ethough Bogut is like the opposite, slouchy, fat, white, greasy hair, not that athletic, not flashy, not a highlight machine.
Dont get me wrong. Dwight Howard is hands down the best center in the league, but Bogut should be getting talked about as the 2nd or 3rd best by now (2nd assuming Yao is out of the talks)

:clap:

Shady66
03-11-2010, 12:34 AM
good but no where near the best

Kaman
Dwight
Lopez ( Robin )


all way better than Bogut, now, Bogut is probably easily 2nd tier, but not even close to top.

Fixed ;)

but seriously D12 is better. Even if u dont go by stats he is better. Hes a better presence on both ends, even when he doesnt get the ball the team has success because the other teams are so worried of him getting the ball so it leaves the shooters open.

montazingmvp
03-11-2010, 12:37 AM
anyone who says kaman is second or even third best center in the league loses their crediblity

Raph12
03-11-2010, 12:41 AM
Wow...You sound pretty ignorant.

No you sound ignorant by saying Bogut will eclipse Dwight by this season or next. Have you even taken into account that Dwight started the year at about 16.8ppg-12.5rpg-1.4bpg and has been tearing it up since they started playing with him as the first option. He's gone for over 22ppg-14rpg-2apg-1spg-3bpg for their last 25+ games which is why his numbers look the way they do now. And you're not even taking Dwight's development into account, he's a much better offensive player now and virtually all his numbers are better than Bogut's during that 25+game span and overall, he's leading his team to a better record (3rd in the league) and he destroys him in the h2h comparison... What more do you want?

Dwight's Stats vs Bogut this season:
21.3ppg-13.7rpg-1.3apg-1.0spg-3.7bpg on 69.4FG%

Bogut's Stats vs Dwight this season:
12.5ppg-10rpg-1.5apg-0.0spg-2bpg on 42.3FG%

I do agree that's he's #2 (Kaman is #3 for me), but I also think that Yao will bounce back and be better than Bogut again next season.

montazingmvp
03-11-2010, 12:42 AM
Fixed ;)

but seriously D12 is better. Even if u dont go by stats he is better. Hes a better presence on both ends, even when he doesnt get the ball the team has success because the other teams are so worried of him getting the ball so it leaves the shooters open.

thats not true at all...

when you double team howard he often turns the ball over...over 3 a game on his career, nearly 3.5 this year..

bogut on the other hand is very careful with the ball and rarely turns it over with under 2 a game...

double teams are much more successful on dwight because he isn't a good passer...bogut on the other hand is.

on the offensive end of the floor, nobody is quivering at dwights feet...he's efficient but he isn't imposing. you can't give dwight the ball and expect him to go to work...you can't rely on dwight in the 4th quarter to take over...

bogut is a lot better in these aspects of the game

rapjuicer06
03-11-2010, 12:46 AM
with yao in the league, and HEALTHY, he is the best center. i hate to say it, but he is. but since he's never healthy he can't be the best center in the league. and you know what? bogut gets hurt an awful lot too. so the dependable factor should also be played and thats another reason why dwight stands on top of both of these players. you can't be the best when your in street clothes on the bench...

rapjuicer06
03-11-2010, 12:48 AM
thats not true at all...

when you double team howard he often turns the ball over...over 3 a game on his career, nearly 3.5 this year..

bogut on the other hand is very careful with the ball and rarely turns it over with under 2 a game...

double teams are much more successful on dwight because he isn't a good passer...bogut on the other hand is.

on the offensive end of the floor, nobody is quivering at dwights feet...he's efficient but he isn't imposing. you can't give dwight the ball and expect him to go to work...you can't rely on dwight in the 4th quarter to take over...

bogut is a lot better in these aspects of the game

yes, and thats why boguts averaging a whopping 16 points a game? because he's amazing on offense? haha ooook

montazingmvp
03-11-2010, 12:56 AM
yes, and thats why boguts averaging a whopping 16 points a game? because he's amazing on offense? haha ooook

when did i say bogut has amazing offense? why don't read what people say, and stop putting words in peoples mouths...

he's a better one on one offensive player than dwight...that is basically what i said...you can give him the ball in the fourth and have him go one on one with a player and if he gets double teamed he'll kick it out nicely to one of his perimeter players...

you can't do this as reliably with dwight...thats what i'm saying. do i have to break every little thing i say down for you?

Chronz
03-11-2010, 01:01 AM
No you sound ignorant by saying Bogut will eclipse Dwight by this season or next. Have you even taken into account that Dwight started the year at about 16.8ppg-12.5rpg-1.4bpg and has been tearing it up since they started playing with him as the first option. He's gone for over 22ppg-14rpg-2apg-1spg-3bpg for their last 25+ games which is why his numbers look the way they do now. And you're not even taking Dwight's development into account, he's a much better offensive player now and virtually all his numbers are better than Bogut's during that 25+game span and overall, he's leading his team to a better record (3rd in the league) and he destroys him in the h2h comparison... What more do you want?

Dwight's Stats vs Bogut this season:
21.3ppg-13.7rpg-1.3apg-1.0spg-3.7bpg on 69.4FG%

Bogut's Stats vs Dwight this season:
12.5ppg-10rpg-1.5apg-0.0spg-2bpg on 42.3FG%

I do agree that's he's #2 (Kaman is #3 for me), but I also think that Yao will bounce back and be better than Bogut again next season.

Youve got to be ******** me, Kaman? WHY? Bogut started off pretty bad too, according to Hollinger, Bogut was one of the most improved IN-Season players this year.

Raph12
03-11-2010, 01:04 AM
thats not true at all...

when you double team howard he often turns the ball over...over 3 a game on his career, nearly 3.5 this year..

bogut on the other hand is very careful with the ball and rarely turns it over with under 2 a game...

double teams are much more successful on dwight because he isn't a good passer...bogut on the other hand is.

on the offensive end of the floor, nobody is quivering at dwights feet...he's efficient but he isn't imposing. you can't give dwight the ball and expect him to go to work...you can't rely on dwight in the 4th quarter to take over...

bogut is a lot better in these aspects of the game

No one doubles Bogut unless you're a really garbage team, Bogut scares no one on either end, saying Bogut is a great passer is an overstatement.

Dwight does turn the ball over a lot, but a lot of those are offensive fouls like moving picks and guys just flopping. He's worked on his passing and it's looked a lot better this season and especially of late, he's kept his turnovers down since the AS break, avging 2.0apg and only 2.4tpg.

Dwight gets umpteen times more attention on either side of the court, while Bogut is underrated, so more guys try to go at him on defense and handle him one-on-one on offense.

Raph12
03-11-2010, 01:06 AM
Youve got to be ******** me, Kaman? WHY? Bogut started off pretty bad too, according to Hollinger, Bogut was one of the most improved IN-Season players this year.

Offensively speaking, nice moves down low and a nice looking jumper as well... Then again, I don't watch much of the Clipps.

montazingmvp
03-11-2010, 01:09 AM
Offensively speaking, nice moves down low and a nice looking jumper as well... Then again, I don't watch much of the Clipps.

he's got moves and he's ambidextrous...but he doesn't have a very good touch around the basket and he takes a lot of really stupid shots...

thats why he's a really inefficient scorer...especially for a center

Raph12
03-11-2010, 01:12 AM
he's got moves and he's ambidextrous...but he doesn't have a very good touch around the basket and he takes a lot of really stupid shots...

thats why he's a really inefficient scorer...especially for a center

I watch him maybe twice a year against Orlando and see Dwight shut him down pretty well. But the shots he does take are jumpers and his moves in the post look pretty solid, so I figured with the numbers he's putting up, he should be a Top 3 center in the post.

By the reactions, I'm guessing I was wrong lol.

Kyben36
03-11-2010, 01:16 AM
Your just putting up that foolishness because your mad that the Bucks are so much better than the Bulls. Your list is way off.

I realy dont want to fight right now, but I will hapily give evidence to why

Dwight- Im not going to try, if you try to argue this, I have no chance of convincing you otherwise

Kaman 19 points a game almost 10 boards

Brook 19 PPG 9 Boards

Bogut 16 PPG 10 Board

There, strait up, there is your evidence

and also, bogut wasnt even considered for the allstar game, Brook and Kaman were. and while i am not saying that bogut isnt a good player, he isnt the best C in the league, thats like me saying that Deng is the best SF in the league, when Lebron obvioulsy is better, just like Dwight is clearly better than Bogut.


I have no problem with the bucks, in fact, the bulls suck, damn do they suck, Rose is our only player, and you cant expect him to carry us. your just mad because you want to over rate your players because you are a homer, like most bulls fans do with Rose.

Meth
03-11-2010, 01:45 AM
It's funny that Chris Kaman was chosen over Bogut during the All-Star game.

JNA17
03-11-2010, 01:51 AM
thread still going? jeez :pity:

That Dude
03-11-2010, 01:56 AM
Bogut is good but Dwight Howard, Chris Kaman and Brooke Lopez are better.

Hellcrooner
03-11-2010, 02:01 AM
a lot of nice words.

Once his team becomes relevant or he is traded to a conteder suddenly he will become Andrew Bogus and he iwll be be labeled soft.....

AI4MVP
03-11-2010, 02:01 AM
I dont think you understand Boguts impact on the BUcks. The Bucks are not a playoff team without Bogut, Bogut is the reason the BUcks are on the rise and the 5th seed in the East.

Hearing Dwight Howard you think oh my god superman, incredible athleticism, strength, size, good look for the media as a poster boy, hyped by media.
Therefore anything not favored towards Dwight in terms of being the best Center will prolly be dismissed.
But the truth is Bogut is not that far behind Dwight in terms of how good he is.
Even ethough Bogut is like the opposite, slouchy, fat, white, greasy hair, not that athletic, not flashy, not a highlight machine.
Dont get me wrong. Dwight Howard is hands down the best center in the league, but Bogut should be getting talked about as the 2nd or 3rd best by now (2nd assuming Yao is out of the talks)

THANK YOU!! THIS GUY IS A SMART MAN!!! the difference between bogut and d howard is not SO different that u guys have to be so harsh. its not like im compaing oj mayo and michael jordan. in my opinion its very debateable whos the best. im just saying its my opinion that Bogut is better

jmtapia
03-11-2010, 02:01 AM
haha Bogut the best center??? youve got to be kidding me.

Hellcrooner
03-11-2010, 02:02 AM
and sorry but Howard, Healhty MIng, Lopez, Bynum, Gasol (Both) , Kaman, Duncan, Jefferson all of them are names that pop up in my mind as Better than bogut.

AI4MVP
03-11-2010, 02:04 AM
and sorry but Howard, Healhty MIng, Lopez, Bynum, Gasol (Both) , Kaman, Duncan, Jefferson all of them are names that pop up in my mind as Better than bogut.


the ones i bolded are not even debateably better then bogut, and only one of the gasols are better and he plays power forward for the lakers

Raph12
03-11-2010, 02:08 AM
THANK YOU!! THIS GUY IS A SMART MAN!!! the difference between bogut and d howard is not SO different that u guys have to be so harsh. its not like im compaing oj mayo and michael jordan. in my opinion its very debateable whos the best. im just saying its my opinion that Bogut is better

He said that Dwight is "hands-down the best center in the league" not "the difference between bogut and d howard is not SO different"

I agree Bogut is up there at number 2, with Gasol, Bynum, Lopez and some others right there with him, but Dwight is just on another level.

It's like you're comparing OJ Mayo to Kobe Bryant, which one idiot has already done earlier this season. :mad:

Hellcrooner
03-11-2010, 02:09 AM
the ones i bolded are not even debateably better then bogut, and only one of the gasols are better and he plays power forward for the lakers

Dont let the fact that he ha sto "share" the ball with three of the top 15 ballhogs of the league fool u Marc is a better CENTER than Pau and may very well end up being the best of the Two. 15 ppg in 8 shots a game? thats crazy man go figur eif he was in Bucks and coudl take 15 or 16, .

btw im liking a LOT what im seeing from YOUR lopez brother.

Rego247
03-11-2010, 02:12 AM
tell me this is a practical joke or something, if not this entire thread = FAIL

thedfactor
03-11-2010, 02:15 AM
I think Bogut is much more offensively polished that Dwight.

D12 is offensively way more athletic and all, also rebounds more.

Bogut isn't the best center, but he's easily top 5

kEviN21
03-11-2010, 02:16 AM
David Lee!!!

NortonMang
03-11-2010, 02:17 AM
Couple of weeks ago they were calling Pau the best big man in the league. Now its Bogut's turn. The best center in the league resides in Orlando. Ain't even close to arguable.

BigAl25
03-11-2010, 02:57 AM
uuuuuuuhh......no!

GatorKid117
03-11-2010, 03:02 AM
I first want to ask where all this Bogut love has been through his career? I'm certain most people are going to say it has just become a recent thing so then I ask, has he proved he can keep up his "#1 C skills" throughout a season? Has he proved he can be a prime performer in the PO? Right now Bogut has proved nothing. Andrew Bynum has had similar spurts where he has looked dominate and has fallen off each time. Anthony Mason anyone? This is true for countless other C's and players throughout the league. Dwight Howard on the other hand has had multiple seasons of great play, spectacular PO series and has led his team to the Finals as the number 1 option. While Bogut has not had a great team, injuries and inconsistency have been his calling card since he has entered the league. Until he can prove he can keep up his play, you cannot call him the #1 C in the league. Now on to some analysis.


Howard in NOT the better defender.Bogut is much better one on one. Also, so many of Howard's blocks go straight out of bounds because he's trying to look cool. Bogut's blocks usually always go directly to his teammates, because he knows how to control his blocks. Controlling blocks is a huge asset that most shot blockers don't possess.

Bogut is also always in the top 5 players in the entire league in charges drawn, year after year. And drawing a charge is actually better for your team than blocking a shot.


The guy is second in the league in blocks, top 5 in charges drawn, and averages double digit rebounds per game. He is also a TRUE center. His free throw percentage is also rising by the day. If he's not the best now, he will definitely be the best by next year, no question,

Howard is much more athletic, but Bogues has more talent. It just took him a little longer to cultivate all that talent.

Better 1v1? Why do you say that? Opponents against Dwight have a PER of 15 and shoot 50% from the field compared to Dwight's 14 and 48%. Dwight gives up less points, rebounds, blocks, and assists as well. Dwight himself dominates Bogut, especially this season, shooting above 70% each time while Bogut is in the 40s. Finally, this article is quite interesting discussing the differences in efficiency and production from what a player gets and what he allows http://www.basketballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=918 It is certainly not exact but nonetheless, it is interesting to note Howard's dominance. He leads the league in that, or dMULT with a score of .626 which means his opponents are 38% less effective against him compared to their average. Bogut is at .836

Usually always? You have a link for that? Always is quite a strong word.

Dwight individually has the best defensive rating in the game and the most defensive win shares. Overall, the Magic are the best team in the league at protecting the paint, which is the Centers job, with a fg% allowed of only 55% and third in the league in points at the rim. Milwaukee is 6th and 7th respectively.

So while you may be right in that Bogut controls blocks better, that and taking charges are really the only thing you can say statistically he does better than Dwight.


bogut on the other hand is very careful with the ball and rarely turns it over with under 2 a game...

double teams are much more successful on dwight because he isn't a good passer...bogut on the other hand is.

on the offensive end of the floor, nobody is quivering at dwights feet...he's efficient but he isn't imposing. you can't give dwight the ball and expect him to go to work...you can't rely on dwight in the 4th quarter to take over...

bogut is a lot better in these aspects of the game

TO and passing ability cannot be directly correlated. Yes Dwight is TO prone, but who is to say those are a direct result of double teams or bad passes? Dwight has improved in his passing ability this year just by watching him every game and by his increase in assist %. While he is no Bogut, he is not the terrible passer you make him out to be. And no one quivering at his feet? He averages the most FT attempts/game and is one of the most physically dominating players in the NBA. Anderson V, Ilgauskas, Brooke Lopez etc I'm sure have nightmares when they face him.

For 4th quarter scoring, valid point but how many big men are go to guys in the 4th? Nowitzki and Bosh? I can't remember the article but it was something like 2 out of the top 35 players last year were guards in 4th quarter scoring. That is why the Magic got Carter.

Now for his offense, he is the most efficient player in the NBA leading the league in true shooting % and is 2nd in fg%. This article does a much better job at describing his improvement then I could ever explain so I'll just link it: http://www.orlandopinstripedpost.com/2010/3/3/1334529/the-dwight-howard-manifesto

Basically, those saying he has no post game are severely mistaken. While his post game certainly could use much improvement, he utilizes his athleticism and speed effectively to be one of the better scorers in the NBA. This year his usage rate and fga attempts are down resulting in his decreased ppg output but that should not be considered a detriment to his improvement. He does not need to be a volume shooter to help his team; rather he needs to be an effective scorer. While I'm sure his % would drop somewhat, if need be I think Howard could comfortably average 24 points on 50% shooting.

I really don't see any reason to believe Bogut is better than Howard. Bogut is the better passer, FT shooter and takes charges. Howard is better at everything else. You say he has no post moves? I say you haven't watched Howard more than a few times this season.

Draco
03-11-2010, 03:32 AM
^^ interesting post.

SchyGuy11
03-11-2010, 04:01 AM
you guys are all close minded. just becuz dwight is superman and plays for a better team and bigger market you automatically dismiss anything else. Andrew Bogut is literally 948594385930485904 times bbetter then dwight offensively, and dwight is a little bit better then bogut defensively. A LITTLE BIT. there averaging 2.5 and 2.8 blocks per game. The fact that Bogut is 948594385930485904 times better the dwight offesnively makes up for the .00001 times that dwight is better defensively

Dumb.

Hellcrooner
03-11-2010, 04:19 AM
Dwight is the most dominant center because of his body.

But skill wise , movements wise iq wise basketbal understanding wise he is far far far far far behind a TON of big men in the league.

He has the potential to improve tough.

Tommyh1331
03-11-2010, 04:26 AM
This guy is an idiot take this thread down now!

YungBockFanSkrv
03-11-2010, 04:57 AM
SHeeeish alls is saying its that if yous see bogut baby downtown like i dos he is da numb 1 due in the LEGAUE. He take on foos like thay dues ou a Tarantinno movie. GTHnak you mam. BJEN

sugarrayray
03-11-2010, 05:54 AM
Bogut has also emerged as a team leader, where as Howard is quite the opposite. Howard also makes countless mistakes in late game situations, goal tends tons of shots, which Bogut never does, and Howard always has some stupid smile on his face after commiting a horrible foul.

Even if Howard is barely the better center, that won't last long. He has basically reached his peak, and Bogut is ever improving. I am extremely confident that Bogut will be the obvious better center by the middle of next year.

Until then, so long folks. You've heard the last out of me on this.



By the way, profound post by YungBockFanSkrv. I feel enlightened by what you have said.

JayW_1023
03-11-2010, 06:03 AM
I think Bogut is hugely underrated...he should've been an All-star over Al Horford. But he ain't the best center.

He does deserve more recognition. It's good to see him healthy as well.

J-Relo
03-11-2010, 06:32 AM
I'll go as far to say that Andrew Bogut has surprised me this season. Before, I didn't think he was deserving of that contract. Now, with the Bucks being a 5th seed team (east, I know, but still, they are the bucks who expected it?) and him playing great I changed my mind.

^

THATSALL
03-11-2010, 06:42 AM
has a good all around game

Anon
03-11-2010, 07:41 AM
Right, and Darren Collison is the best PG in the NBA.

Giannis94
03-11-2010, 08:16 AM
i agree bogut is the best center in the league

Cavs_Fan24
03-11-2010, 08:18 AM
He is a better scorer for sure, but not a better all around player.

The_Pharouh
03-11-2010, 08:19 AM
i think he was the best C in the league in the last month
if he keep his playing this way for the next season then I will agree with you
but for now 1 month don't make him the better player for me

BlinkManJan02
03-11-2010, 08:40 AM
Everyone with the Bucks is always overlooked. He deserved to make the all star game, but we know how big of a joke that is with players not even playing and getting top votes haha. ridiculous.

He's definitely underrated. I would agree with others and say second best though. Until he helps the Bucks become a consistent top seed in the East, I wouldn't consider him the best. The Bucks better lock him up for a while though, anyone know what his current contract is?

BOSTON617
03-11-2010, 09:08 AM
top 3

jtrinaldi
03-11-2010, 09:32 AM
bogut is in fact the best center in the league:clap:

JasonJohnHorn
03-11-2010, 09:38 AM
I haven't gotten to watch him play much since he's come into the league, being as how he's on the bucks and nobody outside of milwuake watches bucks games, but I did happen to catch a bit of the game on Tuesday night and that guy is agile and athletic and has some offensive moves, which was surpsing to me since I've never seen impressive numbers coming from him, and he's always been a solid rebounder.

So yeah, I understand where you are coming from, and I respect the fact that you're showing the guy some love. I think he would provide match up problem for Dwight, but Gasol would still be able to gaurd him well, as would Duncan. thankfully for Bogut, those guys play in the west.

bigsams50
03-11-2010, 10:09 AM
He's not the best. Thats Dwight

Brew Crew
03-11-2010, 10:23 AM
He's definitely underrated. I would agree with others and say second best though. Until he helps the Bucks become a consistent top seed in the East, I wouldn't consider him the best. The Bucks better lock him up for a while though, anyone know what his current contract is?

He's here for a while.

$10,000,000 '09/10

$11,050,000 '10/11

$12,100,000 '11/12

$13,150,000 '12/13

$14,200,000 '13/14

brisk002
03-11-2010, 10:25 AM
I like how people say the Lopez, Kaman, Horford, ect. are all better than Bogut because their stats are a tad better. Then other people are saying that Dwight Howard is definately better then bogut because when they play eachother, Dwight puts up the better numbers. About a month ago in the Bucks forum we had this discussion with a bunch of Miami fans. You people should really look at the stats when Bogut plays Lopez, Kaman, Horford, Bargani, Marc Gasol. In almost every game, Bogut has shut them down, scored 10-15 more points then them, and just puts up monster numbers while the other guys are way below their season averages... So you tell me.... If Howard is better than Bogut because he has better stats when they match up, then Bogut has to be better than all those other guys because in almost every game HE DOMINATES THEM. Or this could mean stats like Howard v Bogut actually don't mean one guy is better than the other, which means Bogut could be better than Howard. So you people tell me.

Anon
03-11-2010, 10:57 AM
Would somebody move this to the Bucks forum where it belongs.

avon_barksdale
03-11-2010, 11:06 AM
It took him 4 yrs to live up to that #1 pick status, but he coming along slow and steady

JayAllDay
03-11-2010, 11:11 AM
you guys are all close minded. just becuz dwight is superman and plays for a better team and bigger market you automatically dismiss anything else. Andrew Bogut is literally 948594385930485904 times bbetter then dwight offensively, and dwight is a little bit better then bogut defensively. A LITTLE BIT. there averaging 2.5 and 2.8 blocks per game. The fact that Bogut is 948594385930485904 times better the dwight offesnively makes up for the .00001 times that dwight is better defensively

Well that's just like your opinion man

Brew Crew
03-11-2010, 11:12 AM
No one doubles Bogut unless you're a really garbage team, Bogut scares no one on either end, saying Bogut is a great passer is an overstatement.


Why don't you take a look at the Bucks Vs. Celtics game for me then...And comments from coaches in their last few games....

You have no idea what you're talking about.

bucksfan31
03-11-2010, 11:26 AM
He's not ahead of Howard just yet. I'm a huge fan of the Bucks, and even i can't say that he is as good or as consistent as howard. The fact is Bogut can have monster game for 5 striaght, then go out and lay an absolute egg. His rebounding is still inconsistent with his average, some nights he will only grab 4 rebounds, and Luc, Ers and delfino have to pick up the slack. None the less he is still has a more well rounded game then howard, Passes better and has a better back to the basket game. Howard is still a better defender, he can still hold his own in the paint.

1. Howard
2. Bogut
3. Duncan
4. Nene
5. Jokim Noah

masalex1205
03-11-2010, 11:39 AM
bahaha

heatbb
03-11-2010, 11:53 AM
No, man, no :facepalm:

You try to keep D away from the basket. A 6'7 guy can keep Bogut away. Besides, as someone mentioned before, he's never doubled and if you play the Bucks a lot of times he's left open to help out others under the basket.

Brew Crew
03-11-2010, 12:02 PM
No, man, no :facepalm:

You try to keep D away from the basket. A 6'7 guy can keep Bogut away. Besides, as someone mentioned before, he's never doubled and if you play the Bucks a lot of times he's left open to help out others under the basket.

HELLO MORON, he was doubled right away vs. the Celtics.

And name a 6'7'' guy who can hold him. Please enlighten me.

rapjuicer06
03-11-2010, 12:08 PM
HELLO MORON, he was doubled right away vs. the Celtics.

And name a 6'7'' guy who can hold him. Please enlighten me.

DeJuan Blair

VivaLaShark
03-11-2010, 12:14 PM
I am going to end this right here and right now....

If you do a fantasy draft on NBA Live 10 Dwight Howard goes in the 4th round and sometimes even drops to a 6th round pick... Bogut usually goes in the 1st round maybe 2nd. Even though DH12 is a 92 overall....

But in real life DH12 has more value and is a better player. He hasn't hit his ceiling yet and he started playing in the league at a MUCH higher level. And numbers don't always mean everything, and one good season doesn't prove crap.

Is Darren Collison better than Chris Paul? He has arguably played better this year than Paul did... But I don't think I would ever pick Collison over Paul, just like I would never pick Bogut over DH12. And I don't think any GM in the league would either.

Brew Crew
03-11-2010, 12:17 PM
DeJuan Blair

Please. Bogut didn't even get to play in their first match-up in November. In the second game, Bogut only played 27 minutes and had 12pts 8reb. Blair only played 25 minutes. I'll add the fact that Warrick played more minutes in that game over Bogut as well.

miller74
03-11-2010, 12:19 PM
you guys are all close minded. just becuz dwight is superman and plays for a better team and bigger market you automatically dismiss anything else. Andrew Bogut is literally 948594385930485904 times bbetter then dwight offensively, and dwight is a little bit better then bogut defensively. A LITTLE BIT. there averaging 2.5 and 2.8 blocks per game. The fact that Bogut is 948594385930485904 times better the dwight offesnively makes up for the .00001 times that dwight is better defensively

But what you dont get is that his team is better because of Dwight. Both players went 1st overall, someone to build around. Magic are tittle contenders and the Bucks are lottery contenders. Whats the point of all the stats u post when they dont help u win.
You could trade Dwight Howard to get Bogut, but you could trade 2 Bogut's to get Dwight Howard

Denver-boy
03-11-2010, 12:20 PM
Wow i kinda laughed when i heard this. at least people know who bogut is now, this gave bogut some attention atleast im mean when he plays he invisble. i never heard of of him in years, so that just says something.

VivaLaShark
03-11-2010, 12:22 PM
But what you dont get is that his team is better because of Dwight. Both players went 1st overall, someone to build around. Magic are tittle contenders and the Bucks are lottery contenders. Whats the point of all the stats u post when they dont help u win.
You could trade Dwight Howard to get Bogut, but you could trade 2 Bogut's to get Dwight Howard


No they aren't...

Brew Crew
03-11-2010, 12:23 PM
Wow i kinda laughed when i heard this. at least people know who bogut is now, this gave bogut some attention atleast im mean when he plays he invisble. i never heard of of him in years, so that just says something.

I guess he blinded you with his 23 pt 10 reb 4 block performance against the Nugs then huh?

ChiSox219
03-11-2010, 12:24 PM
I am going to end this right here and right now....

If you do a fantasy draft on NBA Live 10 Dwight Howard goes in the 4th round and sometimes even drops to a 6th round pick... Bogut usually goes in the 1st round maybe 2nd. Even though DH12 is a 92 overall....

But in real life DH12 has more value and is a better player. He hasn't hit his ceiling yet and he started playing in the league at a MUCH higher level. And numbers don't always mean everything, and one good season doesn't prove crap.

Is Darren Collison better than Chris Paul? He has arguably played better this year than Paul did... But I don't think I would ever pick Collison over Paul, just like I would never pick Bogut over DH12. And I don't think any GM in the league would either.

Collison isn't close to matching Paul's level of play this season.

Chronz
03-11-2010, 12:25 PM
I think Bogut is hugely underrated...he should've been an All-star over Al Horford. But he ain't the best center.

He does deserve more recognition. It's good to see him healthy as well.

Have you always seen why basing it on team record screws people or were you one of those reward winning mongerers

VivaLaShark
03-11-2010, 12:26 PM
Please Chris Paul played like garbage all season long. Collison has been great.

Chronz
03-11-2010, 12:27 PM
Please Chris Paul played like garbage all season long. Collison has been great.

Please CP3 has played brilliant, Collison has been great FOR A ROOK.

VivaLaShark
03-11-2010, 12:31 PM
Actually Collison is. His avgs don't match up because of being a back up most of the season. I also said arguably. And many people would agree with me that Chris Paul was relaly disappointing most of this season. In February and March where Collison has actually played, he is playing at a high level. But this is besides the point of the thread.

ChiSox219
03-11-2010, 12:31 PM
Have you always seen why basing it on team record screws people or were you one of those reward winning mongerers

You don't think Horford deserved it? I thought it would be between Josh Smith, Bogut and Horford for the last spot...

ChiSox219
03-11-2010, 12:37 PM
Actually Collison is. His avgs don't match up because of being a back up most of the season. I also said arguably. But Collison more than once has thrown up 20 asts and 20 points. And many people would agree with me that Chris Paul was relaly disappointing most of this season.

Paul has been better than Collison in every single efficiency category so him being a backup isn't a factor. In fact, I would venture to say that playing all that time as a backup would benefit Collison's numbers because he spent more time against opposing team's second units.

It's not a fair comparison, but Collison has shown some nice things for a rookie. BTW, that 20 assist game was more like 15-16 assists but don't tell that to the NBA or Hornets scorekeeper.


Player Season Age G MP PER TS% eFG% ORB% DRB% TRB% AST% STL% BLK% TOV% USG% ORtg DRtg OWS DWS WS
Darren Collison 2009-10 22 59 1474 15.9 .528 .486 2.2 8.9 5.5 32.9 2.1 0.2 19.3 23.5 102 110 0.8 0.9 1.7
Chris Paul 2009-10 24 38 1472 26.1 .599 .546 1.4 12.5 6.9 48.2 3.0 0.4 12.9 23.1 125 107 5.9 1.5 7.4

rapjuicer06
03-11-2010, 12:42 PM
Please. Bogut didn't even get to play in their first match-up in November. In the second game, Bogut only played 27 minutes and had 12pts 8reb. Blair only played 25 minutes. I'll add the fact that Warrick played more minutes in that game over Bogut as well.

he's a 6'7 guy that can guard bogut. bogut would not be able to back down blair, in fact, bogut probably can't back down any center/pf in the league....

sep11ie
03-11-2010, 12:44 PM
you guys are all close minded. just becuz dwight is superman and plays for a better team and bigger market you automatically dismiss anything else. Andrew Bogut is literally 948594385930485904 times bbetter then dwight offensively, and dwight is a little bit better then bogut defensively. A LITTLE BIT. there averaging 2.5 and 2.8 blocks per game. The fact that Bogut is 948594385930485904 times better the dwight offesnively makes up for the .00001 times that dwight is better defensively

You are 4862784057.86 kinds of ********.

brisk002
03-11-2010, 12:44 PM
You people who say "where did Bogut come from" obviously haven't watched any bucks games over the past 4 years. This team was Michael Redd's team. The Bucks have had 3 different coaches and 2 different GM's since Bogut has been with this team. This is the first year they have told Bogut that this is his team. Bogut was told he could finally have the offense run through him, not Michael Redd. That is why he is playing great this year.

VivaLaShark
03-11-2010, 12:44 PM
I bet Bogut could back down Hasheem Thabeet.

sep11ie
03-11-2010, 12:45 PM
And when Yao comes back it'll knock him down to 3rd.

sNaKeS
03-11-2010, 12:46 PM
For the dumbass who started this topic and says bogut is better than howard, look at their most recent head to head game.

Bogut: 10 pts., 10 reb., 3 blocks
Howard: 22 pts., 11 reb., 5 blocks

I rest my case.

Fury
03-11-2010, 12:48 PM
hes not the best..hes more like the 3ed best after Howard and Brooke Lopez

VivaLaShark
03-11-2010, 12:49 PM
In a league where there are like 5 True Centers, I'll give Bogut #3.

Hellcrooner
03-11-2010, 12:58 PM
For the dumbass who started this topic and says bogut is better than howard, look at their most recent head to head game.

Bogut: 10 pts., 10 reb., 3 blocks
Howard: 22 pts., 11 reb., 5 blocks

I rest my case.

what does that prove?


everybody (but me ceause im a homer it seems) here thinks Lopez is better than Marc Gasol.

Check their boxscores in the last Grizz vs Nets game.

Is that any prove?

No it isnt.

Chronz
03-11-2010, 01:00 PM
Actually Collison is. His avgs don't match up because of being a back up most of the season. I also said arguably. And many people would agree with me that Chris Paul was relaly disappointing most of this season. In February and March where Collison has actually played, he is playing at a high level. But this is besides the point of the thread.

Actually Collison is.......... what?

If your looking at per game averages then your not analyzing their statistical worth properly.

Look at his stats in that span if you wish, they still dont measure up to Pauls. Heck CP3 in his rookie year was a much better player than Collison is now, so comparing him to a PRIME CP3 is a joke.

Anon
03-11-2010, 01:01 PM
You people who say "where did Bogut come from" obviously haven't watched any bucks games over the past 4 years.

You got us there.

Chronz
03-11-2010, 01:04 PM
You don't think Horford deserved it? I thought it would be between Josh Smith, Bogut and Horford for the last spot...

I never argued against him in fact I defended his selection because of the inordinate amount of hate he recieved, at the time Bogut was playing pretty mediocre ball compared to now, Smith definitely deserved it over Horford but I dont think he was competing for that slot (C), unless it was a WildCard pick. If he was then blame the voting process, WC shouldnt be selected until after the initial reserves are selected.

Im just asking him because I never knew he thought that way.

Chronz
03-11-2010, 01:08 PM
You people who say "where did Bogut come from" obviously haven't watched any bucks games over the past 4 years. This team was Michael Redd's team. The Bucks have had 3 different coaches and 2 different GM's since Bogut has been with this team. This is the first year they have told Bogut that this is his team. Bogut was told he could finally have the offense run through him, not Michael Redd. That is why he is playing great this year.

This is the first time Bogut has taken command of the team, its not as if Redd was holding him back. If that were the case what was the reason he didnt step up in all the years Redd was dealing with injuries. In fact Boguts stats were better in the minutes he shared with Redd.

Hes playing great this year, because HES improved. Hes finally developing the way everyone had hoped.

Raidaz4Life
03-11-2010, 01:15 PM
boget is the most unstoppable post scorer in the nba and blocks as many shots as dwight does and averages double digit boards. his offense makes him a better player then howard. if he played for a big market team and was surrounded by great players like jameer nelson, rashard lewis, vince carter, ect., then you guys wouldnt be so against this.

but you guys are all close minded

prove it dude!!! You can say all you want but you have nothing to back it up!



The fact that Dwight is still able to put up those numbers despite having to share the ball with 4-5 other great players just proves he's better. Andrew Bogut is pretty much the Bucks number 1 option and he is still inferior to Dwight.

smith&wesson
03-11-2010, 01:30 PM
andrew bogut has been the best centre in the league over the last 10-15 games. but over all ? he has been too injured, when he does it for a full season maybe. because he does have a better all around game the howard.

Brew Crew
03-11-2010, 01:44 PM
This is the first time Bogut has taken command of the team, its not as if Redd was holding him back. If that were the case what was the reason he didnt step up in all the years Redd was dealing with injuries. In fact Boguts stats were better in the minutes he shared with Redd.

Hes playing great this year, because HES improved. Hes finally developing the way everyone had hoped.

Bogut's problems have been his injuries through out his career, and Redd getting most of the touches. His injuries are the reason for his inconsistency because year by year he's still improved. Redd and Bogut have often been injured at the same time as well.

jkiddvc20
03-11-2010, 04:47 PM
Bogut is no way in hell better than Howard, Yao and Lopez is better than Bogut..

AI4MVP
03-11-2010, 04:54 PM
brook lopez is NOT better then andrew bogut

AI4MVP
03-11-2010, 04:58 PM
bogut right now is the best shot blocker in the nba. he consistently gets like 3-5 blocks soo many games. i dont even remember the last time he didnt have atleast two blocks

VivaLaShark
03-11-2010, 05:04 PM
Absolutely FALSE...

Dwight Howard is avg 2.77 bpg, has 180TOT Blks, and 3.79blks per 48min
Bogut is avg 2.47, has 141 TOT blk, and 3.65 per 48

On the NBA's Points-Rebounds-Assists leaders....

Dwight Howard is #14
Andrew Bogut is #36

GG

Double_R
03-11-2010, 05:16 PM
you just won the most ignorant award on PSD

Yea and Brandon Jennings, all 36.8% of him is the best rookie in the NBA

Hoopsadvocate
03-11-2010, 05:18 PM
you guys are all close minded. just becuz dwight is superman and plays for a better team and bigger market you automatically dismiss anything else. Andrew Bogut is literally 948594385930485904 times bbetter then dwight offensively, and dwight is a little bit better then bogut defensively. A LITTLE BIT. there averaging 2.5 and 2.8 blocks per game. The fact that Bogut is 948594385930485904 times better the dwight offesnively makes up for the .00001 times that dwight is better defensively

Please i agree dwight is a bit overrated but nowhere near as much as your overrating Bogut right now ill give you hes a good defensive center but his rebounding is not that great hes not capable of the 20+ boards nights that Dwight has. His offensive game is more polished as far as post moves go but if he doesnt do anything with it how is he the best. By this i mean he gets 16 ppg on a team whos other offensive threat is a rookie so how the heck is he the best center. Hes good top 3 in the east but not the best center at all that statement just makes you lose credibility.

Kobe2324
03-11-2010, 05:20 PM
I would not trade dwight howard or Andrew Bynum for Bogut, he is a really good centre but not quite the best.

Double_R
03-11-2010, 05:22 PM
I would not trade dwight howard or Andrew Bynum for Bogut, he is a really good centre but not quite the best.

I agree, I would take Lopez and Bynum over Bogut

Bogut is soft

ChiSox219
03-11-2010, 05:23 PM
Please i agree dwight is a bit overrated but nowhere near as much as your overrating Bogut right now ill give you hes a good defensive center but his rebounding is not that great hes not capable of the 20+ boards nights that Dwight has. His offensive game is more polished as far as post moves go but if he doesnt do anything with it how is he the best. By this i mean he gets 16 ppg on a team whos other offensive threat is a rookie so how the heck is he the best center. Hes good top 3 in the east but not the best center at all that statement just makes you lose credibility.

Bogut pulled down 20 boards two weeks ago...

VivaLaShark
03-11-2010, 05:23 PM
You're from Canada... Stick to hockey.. Bynum is awful, I would trade just about any starting bigman in the league to get rid of Bynum INCLUDING Bogut.

ChiSox219
03-11-2010, 05:23 PM
I agree, I would take Lopez and Bynum over Bogut

Bogut is soft

Bogut is better than Lopez, no question there.

I really like Bynum but he's still behind Bogut.

brisk002
03-11-2010, 05:26 PM
you just won the most ignorant award on PSD

Yea and Brandon Jennings, all 36.8% of him is the best rookie in the NBA

Actually he is the #2 rookie in the NBA. And if being MVP means you are on a winning team, then Jennings should get ROY because he has helped get the bucks to the 5th seed. I am not blind to his fg% sucking, but do you know he is shooting 40% from 3 pt? He has the 2nd highest 3 pt % for rookies. He is a true PG though and when he develops his shot he will be a very scary player.

VivaLaShark
03-11-2010, 05:28 PM
Jennings is not the #2. Sorry.

jacquewho?
03-11-2010, 05:31 PM
Bogut pulled down 20 boards two weeks ago...

Not at the level Dwight does...he's done it about 7 times this season.


Bogut is better than Lopez, no question there.

I really like Bynum but he's still behind Bogut.

Agreed on both points, but Lopez is getting there.


bogut right now is the best shot blocker in the nba. he consistently gets like 3-5 blocks soo many games. i dont even remember the last time he didnt have atleast two blocks

About a month ago actually. Too bad the # of shots you block doesn't determine how good you are as a player or else this thread would be a little more credible.

Jays Claw
03-11-2010, 05:32 PM
I would take a healthy Andrew Bynum over him any day of the week!

VivaLaShark
03-11-2010, 05:35 PM
I would take a healthy Andrew Bynum over him any day of the week!

Never. That is just foolish.

This thread needs to just DIE. Admins please kill it. lol

Hoopsadvocate
03-11-2010, 05:35 PM
Bogut pulled down 20 boards two weeks ago...

Nights. Meaning multiple times...

VivaLaShark
03-11-2010, 05:37 PM
Nights. Meaning multiple times...

Cool so has Samuel Dalembert.

Jays Claw
03-11-2010, 05:41 PM
Andrew Bogut would get murdered when facing Brook Lopez, Andrew Bynum, Dwight Howard and Yao Ming. I'm not going to lie, he has been a pleasant surprise. However, he doesn't have the size to match up with an elite center. The Bucks have been this good because of Andrew Bogut.

VivaLaShark
03-11-2010, 05:46 PM
What are you talking about? Bogut is the same size as Brook Lopez and Bynum is only 25lbs heavier. The thing is, is that Bynum IS NOT GOOD. He is not a superstar C. He is just not.

I don't care how you look at it. He has been in the league long enough to know that he has hit his ceiling and he is average at best.

TmacBryant
03-11-2010, 06:04 PM
dwight is on a good team. bogut isnt.

dwight > him.

doesnt mean bogut sucks but.. he aint a dwight.

jkiddvc20
03-11-2010, 08:04 PM
brook lopez is NOT better then andrew bogut

Explain to me your reasoning..

RadiantShot
03-11-2010, 08:36 PM
We need an admin to close this. Some of the stuff I'm reading makes me want to take a **** on a few of you.

brisk002
03-11-2010, 08:46 PM
The Value of a Blocked Shot in the NBA: From Dwight Howard to Tim Duncan

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:
I am here at MIT Sloan Sports Analytics Conference, and looking through the number of great papers one of them caught my eye. It was called “The Value of a Blocked Shot in the NBA: From Dwight Howard to Tim Duncan” written by John Huizinga, (A professor of business at the University of Chicago) who has been Yao Ming’s NBPA registered agent since Yao’s inaugural season, representing Yao in his dealings with the Houston Rockets, as well as with major endorsement partners.

Data

Before getting into the data and what it tells us, it was important for us to learn how the data was gained. Mr. Huizinga developed a database called Chances. The database uses data provided by STATS, LLC. and allowed everyone to know the context of the action before the block. The sample of the data used in the presentation was players with over 100 blocks over the last 7 years (this is when the data has become available). In total, this ended up being 170 player-seasons.

Type Of Block

Is blocking a lay-up more valuable than blocking a jump-shot? Mr. Huizinga’s data says yes. In his presentation, he said that it all comes down to expected value. A jumper has an expected point value of 1.04 while a lay-up has an expected point value of 1.54. Looking at it this way, Brendon Haywood, who many people is a very good defender (me included) actually is a less valuable shot blocker than Jermaine O’Neal.

Haywood gets 69% of his blocks on jumpers, meaning he only blocks 31% of the more valuable lay-ups. On the other end of the spectrum, 91% of Jermaine O’Neal’s blocks were on lay-up attempts, while only 9% of his blocks were the less-valuable jump shots.

“Russells”

Many people who have seen Bill Russell play (or have seen highlights) know that Bill Russell was remembered for blocking shots for his teammates, starting a fast break (called by Bill Simmons as “Russells”. Mr. Huizinga showed that this doesn’t really happen in the NBA anymore. There have only been 7 players (in the 7 season where the data was tracked) who accumulated more than 20 “Russells” in a season.

Preblock Situation

One of the most important things to take away from Mr. Huizinga’s presentation is expected value of the preblock situation. Or in otherwords, what happened right before the block took place. Naturally, a block coming off of a live-turnover situation on a lay-up (think a LeBron chasedown) is going to be more valuable than a block coming off of a deadball situation. Again, this comes down to expected point value. The expected point value of a live-turnover situation is higher than a deadball situation because coming off of a live-ball turnover, the defense doesn’t have a chance to get back.

The best shot blocker in the NBA when it comes down to this situation ends up being Andrei Kirilenko, as 16% of his blocks come against this shot type. The worst ends up being Greg Ostertag. This makes sense considering that Ostertag isn’t really known for his footspeed.

Putting It All Together

So whose blocked shots are the most valuable? Mr. Huizinga closed the presentation by going over what he calls “Block Value.” To determine block value, he used the formula Points Saved + Points Created where Points Saved equals the effect of a Block on Opponents Expected Points during this possession and Points Created equals the effect of a Block on Own Team’s Expected Points During the next possession.

Using this formula, we found out who had the best season since the data started being collected (2002-03) in terms of overall block value. It ended up being Theo Ratliff during his 2003 season. Ratliff accumulated a block value of 300 (287 coming from points prevented while 13 came from points created), which when transformed into wins ends up being right around 5.

Interesting Numbers

Just thought it would be interesting to include some numbers towards the end of Mr. Huizinga’s presentation, showing how number of blocks can’t really be used when determining who is the best “shot blocker.”

2003 season

Stromile Swift | 119 blocks with a block value of 74
Rasho Nesterovic | 117 blocks with a block value of 124
So why was Mr. Huizinga’s paper called From “…Dwight Howard to Tim Duncan?” Well as he explained, through a series of charts, Tim Duncan has had the best season in history when it came down to value/block with 1.12, meaning he saved 1.12 points with every block and Dwight Howard ended up with the worst season in terms of value/block with with .53 (both came during the 2008 season).

brisk002
03-11-2010, 08:48 PM
LOL... Now Bogut is better on offense and defense!!! aha.. Im kidding, but this article does actually mean that Bogut being #2 in blocks is probably better than Howard who is #1 in terms of effectiveness. Anyone agree? Or does everyone disagree because Bogut is a white aussie who plays in Milwaukee???:mad:

masalex1205
03-11-2010, 08:49 PM
...

cmellofan15
03-11-2010, 09:06 PM
you guys are all close minded. just becuz dwight is superman and plays for a better team and bigger market you automatically dismiss anything else. Andrew Bogut is literally 948594385930485904 times bbetter then dwight offensively, and dwight is a little bit better then bogut defensively. A LITTLE BIT. there averaging 2.5 and 2.8 blocks per game. The fact that Bogut is 948594385930485904 times better the dwight offesnively makes up for the .00001 times that dwight is better defensively

this easily the worst post I've seen this year.

Chateamsfan
03-11-2010, 09:24 PM
Oh great stats! *Rolls eyes* Lay off the drugs!

#1chickhearnfan
07-06-2010, 05:10 PM
Andrew Bogut is a better player then Dwight Howard. period.

:facepalm:

D Roses Bulls
07-06-2010, 05:13 PM
I know alot of you are going to freak out, especially becuz hes a player that h as nevver been in an all star game, isnt really a big name, and plays in a small market, but andrew bogut is the best center in the nba.


Defensively, hes been just as much as a block machine as Dwight Howard, as Bogut is averaging 2.5 blocks per game.

Hes been a a great rebounder this year and is averaging double digit boards.

but what really separates him in my opinion is his offensive game. His post moves are un matched, and his left-handed hook shot is prolly the most unstoppable shot in the nba right now. Hes unstoppable in the post, and doesnt even need any athletiscm to do it. Dont let the only 16 point per game fool you. if bogut was a first option he could average in the 20's without a doubt.

I know Dwights numbers are better, but Bogut has a much better all around game and is equaling Dwight in blocks



I know everyone is gunna hate on me for this becuz Dwight has more of the star power and Milwaukee isnt a very watched team.


discuss

:facepalm: is this ric buchor, stephen a smith, or broussard again trying to create a buzz?

bosoxlover12
07-06-2010, 05:17 PM
He's not bad, but he is not as good as Howard, Amare, Lee, Duncan, Perkins (maybe)

top 10, but not even close to #1

Raidaz4Life
07-06-2010, 05:17 PM
Stop bumping old threads with facepalms!!!