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Jason5Kidd5
03-10-2010, 02:57 AM
Who do you guys think holds the record for the most game winning opportunity missed shots, for this season and their career?

Duncan = Donkey
03-10-2010, 03:13 AM
kobe bryant

Jason5Kidd5
03-10-2010, 03:15 AM
kobe bryant

Hrmm... makes sense. I think I concur.

asandhu23
03-10-2010, 03:15 AM
Wilt Chamberlain?

Jason5Kidd5
03-10-2010, 03:16 AM
Wilt Chamberlain?

For question 2, perhaps. I was thinking Michael Jordan, but I don't know.

Raph12
03-10-2010, 03:17 AM
Stuff

For your sig... Let's got Jazz and Nuggets! Woooooooooooo!!! Just playing lol.

Jason5Kidd5
03-10-2010, 03:19 AM
For your sig... Let's got Jazz and Nuggets! Woooooooooooo!!! Just playing lol.

:laugh:
I would be upset the Mavericks wouldn't make it, but if the Lakers don't make it at least I'll feel a tiny bit better. :P

If Mavs don't make it to the finals, I'm cheering for Magic all the way.

Duncan = Donkey
03-10-2010, 03:20 AM
is it kobe?

tredigs
03-10-2010, 03:20 AM
Well 82games.com has the stat for it between the years of '03 and '09, and I'm sure they'll update it again after this season (which favors Kobe), but during these years it's Kobe. He was 14/56 which = 32 misses and a FG% of 25%.

http://www.82games.com/gamewinningshots.htm

Not sure about any other years, and apparently some people think the stats there aren't 100% accurate, but that's the only stat I've ever seen on it.

Raph12
03-10-2010, 04:04 AM
:laugh:
I would be upset the Mavericks wouldn't make it, but if the Lakers don't make it at least I'll feel a tiny bit better. :P

If Mavs don't make it to the finals, I'm cheering for Magic all the way.

YEAAAAAAH BOY!! Lol :p

ARMIN12NBA
03-10-2010, 04:10 AM
Well 82games.com has the stat for it between the years of '03 and '09, and I'm sure they'll update it again after this season (which favors Kobe), but during these years it's Kobe. He was 14/56 which = 32 misses and a FG% of 25%.

http://www.82games.com/gamewinningshots.htm

Not sure about any other years, and apparently some people think the stats there aren't 100% accurate, but that's the only stat I've ever seen on it.

Those stats are not accurate at all considering there is a list in the Lakers forum which shows that Kobe has 34 career game-winners...and I can tell you with ease that Kobe did not have 20 before 2003.

BTW--The list qualifications are not game-winning shot opportunities. Simply shots within the 24 second shot clock in a one possession game. The stats are not going to look the same.

-Kobe24-TJ19-
03-10-2010, 04:38 AM
those 82games.com stats are so wrong lol

like ARMIN said

Raph12
03-10-2010, 04:55 AM
82games stats aren't accurate, nor are they up-to-date.

tredigs
03-10-2010, 06:14 AM
Those stats are not accurate at all considering there is a list in the Lakers forum which shows that Kobe has 34 career game-winners...and I can tell you with ease that Kobe did not have 20 before 2003.

BTW--The list qualifications are not game-winning shot opportunities. Simply shots within the 24 second shot clock in a one possession game. The stats are not going to look the same.

Does the list in the Lakers forum include the 6 he's made this year (he's also missed a handful this year, but I'm just curious about the makes. link it please)? That would account for a big difference, because as I said this list hasn't been updated this year, it's an archive stat that I found on the site.

And the list qualifications are about as ideal as you can get to explain who the most clutch end of the game shooter is. They explain it better than I can:
Why use this definition?

With 24 seconds or less, then it truly is a "last possession" situation potentially
With a margin from tied to down 2, the team can take the lead with a made basket (including 3's)
By excluding a down 3 situation, we don't have the "gimme two point buckets" that defenses will sometimes yield to the quick bucket/intentional foul strategy option you often see exercised.

And let's spare the "I can tell you with ease that Kobe hasn't made 20 before 2003/2004" comment. If you're going to call out the validity of a site that has no visible reason to show any bias, yet has EVERY reason to remain statistically sound to retain its credibility, and you cannot provide any evidence of your own, then why would anyone believe you?

They actually do talk about Kobe's surprisingly poor numbers during these years in the right hand column:
Kobe Bryant. Kobe fans don't like to hear it, but while their man is #4 in the league in total game winners hit, he holds the top spot in a less glamorous category: most game winning opportunity missed shots!

42 - Kobe
35 - Vince Carter
33 - Joe Johnson, LeBron
32 - Crawford
31 - Billups

Now we're not Kobe haters by any means and I will readily give him his due as one of the best NBA players (note however, I didn't say the best) but he certainly has an overblown reputation when it comes to the clutch shot: people remember the ones he hits, but not the ones he misses, and heck you think a 56 FGA to 1 assist ratio might be part of the problem?

You can always take solace in the fact that he's doing his best to rectify this half decade long stint of, well, seemingly terrible clutch time play with some great clutch games so far this year, even if he hasn't quite been the best of the best during the rest of the game (if he wasn't injured he probably would've been more effective. But that's not exactly an excuse in the NBA. "IF"s and such).

Lakersfan2483
03-10-2010, 07:02 AM
Who do you guys think holds the record for the most game winning opportunity missed shots, for this season and their career?

I am posting this for you to soak it all in just as Kobe hit his 34th game winning shot of all time. He hit a fade-away jumper at the base-line to beat the Raptors 109-107.;) Not too many players can say they have hit 34 game winning shots over their careers and you can add that tonight's game winner to Kobe's hall of fame resume....

Aust
03-10-2010, 08:03 AM
Everyone seems to be hating on Kobe. He has 6 game-winning shots THIS SEASON!! and it would have been 7 if Luke Walton knew how to pass a freakin basketball. Oh, and how many clutch game winning shots does lebron have??! All I know is he had ONE, in the playoffs against the magic last season. Man, that one shot is so over rated it's not even funny.
Quite hating and taste greatness.

tredigs
03-10-2010, 03:13 PM
Looks like "LakersFan2483" answered my question for Armin for me about the 34 game winners indeed including this year, which means that the 82games.com stats are looking more and more reliable; being that it would mean he has only hit 14 game winners in the 7 seasons prior to 03/04, rather than the 20 that you could ''tell me with ease'' he hadn't, right Armin? Looks like you were right. Even if it was only because you didn't read my post ; ]

It could also be that the Lakers Forum doesn't have the same criteria for a game winner (I saw a list once that was including shots that weren't inside the 24 seconds, making them not true game winners, but clutch none-the-less).

Jason5Kidd5
03-10-2010, 04:30 PM
I am posting this for you to soak it all in just as Kobe hit his 34th game winning shot of all time. He hit a fade-away jumper at the base-line to beat the Raptors 109-107.;) Not too many players can say they have hit 34 game winning shots over their careers and you can add that tonight's game winner to Kobe's hall of fame resume....

Hrm, that's not the point of this thread. In fact, it's the opposite of what it's asking. Game winning shots MISSED is the key term.

Chronz
03-10-2010, 05:09 PM
Wilt Chamberlain?

Wilt never touched the ball during crunch time, atleast not enough to attempt so many to qualify

Lakersfan2483
03-10-2010, 08:43 PM
Hrm, that's not the point of this thread. In fact, it's the opposite of what it's asking. Game winning shots MISSED is the key term.

I know exactly what the thread states, however I don't care how many game winners he's missed. The fact of the matter is, Kobe is willing to take the shot with the game on the line and has hit 34 game winners in his career..... Great accomplishment for a Hall of Fame player. As I stated earlier, only a handful of players have been able to hit game winners the way Kobe has hit them. Give the man his respect and stop trying to discredit him with silly threads on the night of him hitting his 6th GAME WINNER for the season!!!;):eyebrow:

Jason5Kidd5
03-10-2010, 08:52 PM
I know exactly what the thread states, however I don't care how many game winners he's missed. The fact of the matter is, Kobe is willing to take the shot with the game on the line and has hit 34 game winners in his career..... Great accomplishment for a Hall of Fame player. As I stated earlier, only a handful of players have been able to hit game winners the way Kobe has hit them. Give the man his respect and stop trying to discredit him with silly threads on the night of him hitting his 6th GAME WINNER for the season!!!;):eyebrow:

I'm not trying to discredit him. If the simple argument that his clutch field goal shooting is 25% is discrediting him, then that's on Kobe not anyone here.

It would be the equivalent of saying "Dwight Howard is one of the best free throw shooter in the NBA!!!!!!!!!!!" Why? Because he has made a lot more than most people even attempt? It's important to look at their attempts when deciding if one is a good free throw shooter, or in this case... game winning shots. While Dwight MAKES more free throw shots compared to most NBA players, he also MISSES the most!!

Understand?

td0tsfinest
03-10-2010, 08:55 PM
Everyone seems to be hating on Kobe. He has 6 game-winning shots THIS SEASON!! and it would have been 7 if Luke Walton knew how to pass a freakin basketball. Oh, and how many clutch game winning shots does lebron have??! All I know is he had ONE, in the playoffs against the magic last season. Man, that one shot is so over rated it's not even funny.
Quite hating and taste greatness.

I thought he hit his 7th yesterday?

RadiantShot
03-10-2010, 09:34 PM
Mark Madsen.

CowboysKB24
03-10-2010, 10:14 PM
I don't know. It is probably Jordan, Kobe, VC, or some great shooting guard. I don't think this is as bad of a stat AS IT MAY SEEM. The percentage of missed or made is most important.

CowboysKB24
03-10-2010, 10:16 PM
Jason5Kidd5, let me ask you an honest question: *have in mind I'm no Kobe lover, just a Lakers fan*
Why did you ask about who has the most game winning shots missed? In my opinion, I think you just did it to annoy some Lakers fans because it is obvious Kobe has the most missed since he probably has the most attempted. You could have just looked it up on google instead of baiting some fans.

I didn't get that feeling. It is question that probably popped into his head after reading through all the threads about making game winning shots.

I agree that he probably said Kobe because he doesn't like him, but I gave up on arguing about homers. It is inevitable. It is like "camping" in Call of Duty LOL, it is just going to happen every game and there is nothing you can do about it.

Wilson
03-10-2010, 10:22 PM
Alright, I'm going to keep this open for now but please stop the insults guys. Guess at the answer and debate the stats validity at will, but no more insults please.